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MacRumors
Jul 24, 2007, 02:50 PM
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Following news that there were 146,000 iPhone activations (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/24/146000-iphone-activations-in-first-two-days/) in the first 36 hours of sale, analysts are showing disappointment, and are changing their forecasts (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601084&sid=ax.hPmAHKRqc&refer=stocks).

Bloomberg.com relates that analyst Gene Munster from Piper Jaffray & Co. downgraded his prediction of units sold during the first few days from 500,000 to 200,000, calling AT&T's activation results "disappointing." However, he does not change his view that the iPhone will help propel Apple's growth, and maintains an "outperform" rating on Apple's stock.

In addition, CIBC World Markets indicates their data is showing demand for the iPhone is declining, suggesting that Apple may try to spur sales by increasing marketing efforts.

"We have noticed decent inventories at stores, and thin demand at best," analyst Ittai Kidron wrote in a note. "Among the stores we visited, most visitors were not looking at the device, and only a very small subset bought it."

Apple's stock (http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AAPL) was down 5% as of this writing, sitting at $136.38.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/07/24/iphone-demand-waning/)



KD7IWP
Jul 24, 2007, 02:54 PM
Sure is killing my stock portfolio :(

arn
Jul 24, 2007, 02:56 PM
This just goes back to the fact that Analysts know almost nothing.

They predicted 500,000 and now are predicting 200,000 based on the activation numbers?

Where did they get 500,000? They took a wild guess it seems.

arn

Peace
Jul 24, 2007, 02:59 PM
This just goes back to the fact that Analysts know almost nothing.

They predicted 500,000 and now are predicting 200,000 based on the activation numbers?

Where did they get 500,000? They took a wild guess it seems.

arn


ummm.arn..

If analyst know almost nothing why is this topic here? I'ts based on "analysts" :)

arn
Jul 24, 2007, 03:01 PM
ummm.arn..

If analyst know almost nothing why is this topic here? I'ts based on "analysts" :)

I didn't post it. Blame longofest. :)

arn

chr1s60
Jul 24, 2007, 03:05 PM
I think everyone is freaking out too much about this "low" number. This does not represent the number of iPhones sold, only activated in the first 36 hours. Lets not forget that many people bought to sell, some bought and waited for an activation hack, and then there is the likely large number of online orders from Apple that didn't even ship til a few days into July. There is also the "2%" that had activation problems, my guess is that it was more than 2%. The number sold is probably closer to about 400,000. This number is not bad! If analyst wouldn't have went crazy and projected stupid numbers this wouldn't be a problem.

Peace
Jul 24, 2007, 03:08 PM
Preemptive defensive humor strike.


I really was more or less kidding around...


peace sweats it out for a while.


:)


There's a really good but loud topic on this over here :

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=333310

Music_Producer
Jul 24, 2007, 03:09 PM
I never believe anything an analyst says - they're just hired to make a bunch of statements to move stocks up or down. The analysts on bloomberg, ubs, hedge fund companies are always wrong - it's the best job in the world.

stoid
Jul 24, 2007, 03:09 PM
suggesting that Apple may try to spur sales by increasing marketing efforts.

Great, because there hasn't been enough iPhone news already. :rolleyes:

Dippo
Jul 24, 2007, 03:15 PM
The analysts know NOTHING!
They didn't know how many iPhone sold then, and the don't know how many sold now. The AT&T activation number means almost nothing.

I can't see Apple saying that iPhone sales were a disappointment, so I think there will be good news tomorrow, but who really knows?? I sure don't.

YoMamasPyjamas
Jul 24, 2007, 03:16 PM
Apple needs to deliver a bangin software/firmware update that give landscape keys in email/sms, and active sync/exchange solution that is actually worth its weight, and maybe some more sweet apps that they have been tinkering with to add to the empty line on the home screen. A really good update would squash a lot of the "negatives" about the iPhone, and a lot of people on the fence would probably give in.

strangelogic
Jul 24, 2007, 03:21 PM
wow - finally 'real' numbers and suddenly the analysts start to sound like steve ballmer...

to me it sounds like motivation for a nice software upgrade...

Jovian9
Jul 24, 2007, 03:24 PM
The analysts know NOTHING!
They didn't know how many iPhone sold then, and the don't know how many sold now. The AT&T activation number means almost nothing.


I agree. I bought a 4GB iPhone the day after they released but didn't activate it for a week (when I was able to find an 8GB iPhone as well). I'm sure there are countless people who did not get these activated the first 2 days.

.....loving the phone......and so is everyone I show it to. Without saying a word and just letting them look at it I've convinced 3 other people to buy one already :)

mickeymikey
Jul 24, 2007, 03:24 PM
Apple needs to deliver a bangin software/firmware update that give landscape keys in email/sms, and active sync/exchange solution that is actually worth its weight, and maybe some more sweet apps that they have been tinkering with to add to the empty line on the home screen. A really good update would squash a lot of the "negatives" about the iPhone, and a lot of people on the fence would probably give in.

Right on...it can't be too far out. In addition to some overlooked features from v1.0, there a plenty of little bugs to squash.

killerrobot
Jul 24, 2007, 03:29 PM
I think everyone is freaking out too much about this "low" number. This does not represent the number of iPhones sold, only activated in the first 36 hours. Lets not forget that many people bought to sell, some bought and waited for an activation hack, and then there is the likely large number of online orders from Apple that didn't even ship til a few days into July. There is also the "2%" that had activation problems, my guess is that it was more than 2%. The number sold is probably closer to about 400,000. This number is not bad! If analyst wouldn't have went crazy and projected stupid numbers this wouldn't be a problem.

So 2% of 146,000 + 146,000= 400,000? :confused:

Even if they doubled their sells on Sunday, that only makes 300,000.

I do totally agree that analysts went crazy and projected stupid numbers.

mainstreetmark
Jul 24, 2007, 03:30 PM
Apple needs to deliver a bangin software/firmware update that give landscape keys in email/sms, and active sync/exchange solution that is actually worth its weight, and maybe some more sweet apps that they have been tinkering with to add to the empty line on the home screen. A really good update would squash a lot of the "negatives" about the iPhone, and a lot of people on the fence would probably give in.

...................and fix the crashing.

Peace
Jul 24, 2007, 03:33 PM
So 2% of 146,000 + 146,000= 400,000? :confused:

Even if they doubled their sells on Sunday, that only makes 300,000.

I do totally agree that analysts went crazy and projected stupid numbers.

Keep in mind that "2%" figure came from the company that was having the activation problem.They were trying to downplay the problem.I'd put it at more than 30%

dr_lha
Jul 24, 2007, 03:41 PM
Keep in mind that "2%" figure came from the company that was having the activation problem.They were trying to downplay the problem.I'd put it at more than 30%
Based on what? The number of people moaning in forums about it?

chr1s60
Jul 24, 2007, 03:45 PM
So 2% of 146,000 + 146,000= 400,000? :confused:

Even if they doubled their sells on Sunday, that only makes 300,000.

I do totally agree that analysts went crazy and projected stupid numbers.

That isn't what I said. I am saying that first off, the number of activation problems was likely quite a bit higher than 2%.

On top of those who had activation problems and didn't get activated in the first 36 hours there is a large number of people who ordered from Apple.com and did not have their phone yet in order to activate. Then there are the people who bought to put it on ebay and a small number of people who bought waiting for an activation hack.

146,000 reported activated + higher than 2% with activation problems + Apple.com sales + ebay sales and activation hack sales = in my opinion, probably around 400,000 sold. 400,000 is probably a high estimate from me too.

Peace
Jul 24, 2007, 03:46 PM
Based on what? The number of people moaning in forums about it?


Yes.

I believe MR represents the demographic most likely to buy an iPhone.And since there was a big outcry about failed activations it tells me there were more from other demographics.

strangelogic
Jul 24, 2007, 03:49 PM
Keep in mind that "2%" figure came from the company that was having the activation problem.They were trying to downplay the problem.I'd put it at more than 30%

Maybe the 2% is low, but I think 30% is high. IMHO - Those of us who activated in < 5 minutes are not going to be as vocal as those who had problems.

Somehow - at 30% my math says 43K people with 600 dollar paperweights... and that is just in the first 30 hours. That's almost enough to get a house subcommittee convened. They would still be cleaning up the mess today if they had that many problems.

longofest
Jul 24, 2007, 03:50 PM
This just goes back to the fact that Analysts know almost nothing.

They predicted 500,000 and now are predicting 200,000 based on the activation numbers?

Where did they get 500,000? They took a wild guess it seems.

ummm.arn..

If analyst know almost nothing why is this topic here? I'ts based on "analysts" :)

I didn't post it. Blame longofest. :)

Poop on you guys. At least I didn't put it on front page. Oh, then we'd all be a bundle of joy. :o ;)

I thought the quote was kind of interesting... I wonder what stores the CIBC guys visited. I'm not going to slam them in the actual post, but I'll slam them here... I seriously doubt that people are going into an Apple Store and NOT checking out the iPhone. Do I have data to back me up? No, but its probably a good assumption anyways.

I think the analysts got a little over-hyped about the iPhone. Apple's forecast is for 10 million sales in calendar year 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/17/apple-posts-1-billion-in-profit-1q-2007-and-financial-call-notes/). 10 million phones over 365 days means Apple will have to sell just under 28,000 iPhones per day to meet/beat that goal.

Obviously, Apple/ATT won't continue to sell at a clip of 146,000 every 31 hours (it may waver a bit before either starting a trend up or down depending on long-term success), but their starting numbers aren't bad at all for making their goals.

megfilmworks
Jul 24, 2007, 03:51 PM
No matter what the guesses, the bottom line is for this last quarter, this quarter, and several quarters to come Apple and att will be having a very nice growth spurt

killerrobot
Jul 24, 2007, 03:54 PM
400,000 is probably a high estimate from me too.

Yeah, I got you. But at least it seems more reasonable than the 500-750 the damm analysts proposed. They really should be drug out into the streets and shot. :eek:

strangelogic
Jul 24, 2007, 03:59 PM
Obviously, Apple/ATT won't continue to sell at a clip of 146,000 every 36 hours (it may waver a bit before either starting a trend up or down depending on long-term success), but their starting numbers aren't bad at all for making their goals.

Maybe I am an idiot, but... does AT&T use GMT or ... Alaska time or some bizzare deadline for the end of their quarter? I don't get 36 hours here. 6-12 on the 29th equals 6 and then 24 on the 30th... so that is 30 hours right? hmmmm and if they did use GMT it's actually even less...

Sun Baked
Jul 24, 2007, 04:00 PM
Yeah, I got you. But at least it seems more reasonable than the 500-750 the damm analysts proposed. They really should be drug out into the streets and shot. :eek:

Usually most of the analysts are better qualified to dress up like a clown and take your burger orders. ;)

However if you are depending only on analysts opinions and not doing any of your own research, maybe it would be better for you to hand your cash to a professional.

jsnyd05
Jul 24, 2007, 04:03 PM
I really cant believe how irrational people are. The true numbers are not even out yet and we will get those tomorrow after market close. I love my iPhone and couldnt be happier aside from a few flaws fixed by a software update. I'm sure the stock will be up 10 percent in the next 3 weeks.

Sent from my iPhone

CHess
Jul 24, 2007, 04:03 PM
...but, what else is new? Anylists are paid to make news. The more people buy and sell stocks, regardless of price, the more money the brokers (their bosses) make. Mini-rant :D


But, truly, it seems ridiculous to base an analysis on AT&T's activation numbers from the first TWO days of iPhone sales. I personally know 5 people that bought iPhones. 4 of them bought them on the first or second day of availability, and none were activate in that time.

Of those 4 buyers, one waited until after the weekend to activate it. It was the weekend and he had other things to do.

Two buyers had activation problems that kept them from using the phones for 3 days after their purchase. Works great now and they love them.

The fourth buyer purchased an iPhone on Saturday (day 2) and got it home only to discover that he needed an updated version of iTunes, which required him to upgrade the old OS on his computer. So, it was at least another 2 days before he could activate his. Not strictly an "Activation" problem, but it wasn't activated none-the-less.

As an aside, the 5th buyer wasn't going to buy an iPhone at all because it wouldn't work with some new web based calling system that his son-in-law was working on. Then, after he saw an iPhone that the very same son-in-law bought, he immediately fell in love with it and went out and bought one. That was about 2 weeks after the debut.

So, how many of these were activated by AT&T in the first 30-some hours? None. Gee, iPhone must be a failure... :p

Obviously, this is a mini-micro sample, and statistically insignificant. But, if 0% of these first-2-day buyers didn't activate, that makes me seriously doubt these analytical projections that the iPhone isn't selling well after all.

longofest
Jul 24, 2007, 04:03 PM
Maybe I am an idiot, but... does AT&T use GMT or ... Alaska time or some bizzare deadline for the end of their quarter? I don't get 36 hours here. 6-12 on the 29th equals 6 and then 24 on the 30th... so that is 30 hours right? hmmmm and if they did use GMT it's actually even less...

Technically, 31 hours. Their headquarters are in San Antonio, TX. iPhone went on sale in ET, they ended in CT.

I was using the general 36 hours in place of "a day and a half" without actually doing the calculation, but you're right. It is less than 36 hours.

Claypidgeon
Jul 24, 2007, 04:09 PM
I wonder how much of the "waning demand" is just from a missconception on the availability. Everyone I've shown my phone to says "How on earth did you find one of those!?!" Although I got mine the first day, when I explain to them that pretty much every Apple store has them in stock at this point, they are totaly surprised.

PS: am I the only one that would kill for some "arrow" keys while entering text on this thing? Tell me I'm not missing this somewhere.

spinko
Jul 24, 2007, 04:42 PM
for us outside the US.. maybe this will give Apple more incentive to sell the iP in Europe and elsewhere..

isoS
Jul 24, 2007, 05:07 PM
"Among the stores we visited, most visitors were not looking at the device, and only a very small subset bought it."
What stores were they visiting? I've been to four different Apple Stores in the L.A. area, starting with the Grove on launch day and ending with Pasadena three days ago, and every time I go in there's a crowd around the iPhone table with a wait just to touch one. Anecdotal is anecdotal, but come on: people are clearly loving playtime with the iPhone. Doesn't mean they're buying, but they're definitely drawn to it -- here in Los Angeles at least (can it be so different everywhere else?).

Bookmonke
Jul 24, 2007, 05:44 PM
Well like the one person said they just make statements to move stocks up or down and with Apple's numbers coming out tomorrow after market close, I see some people making money since they lost over $8 today and probably $5 or so tomorrow, then a nice jump on Thursday morning.

benspratling
Jul 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
PS: am I the only one that would kill for some "arrow" keys while entering text on this thing? Tell me I'm not missing this somewhere.

You can use your finger as a "mouse" when entering text. When the keyboard is visible, you can press your finger on the text, a magnifying lens pops up and shows you where the insertion cursor is being placed (under your finger). It's much easier to switch from typing with your fingers to placing the cursor on the same screen than to switch from a keyboard to a mouse.

This was one of the leaked features that appeared on June 27th by a restaurant owner who was lampooned beyond imagination for the concept, much, I believe, as anyone would have been if they said we'd be surfing the "Real" web on a 3.5" screen with no scroll bars... and yet Steve had the guts to do it and it has worked out amazing. In my humble opinion, this is better than arrow keys, and actually an ingenious idea.

iHerzeleid
Jul 24, 2007, 07:01 PM
Its just too expensive.

shadowfax
Jul 24, 2007, 07:05 PM
seems like MR needs to make a poll: If you bought your iPhone on opening weekend, when did you have it activated?

* Friday night
* Saturday
* Sunday
* Some time after this

inkswamp
Jul 24, 2007, 07:08 PM
Oh, gees... the Chicken Littles have turned their eyes to the iPhone.

Anyway, the first journalist to dust off the word "beleaguered" gets a nasty email. :rolleyes:

chicagdan
Jul 24, 2007, 07:08 PM
Apple may try to spur sales by increasing marketing efforts.


Anyone else find that line hilarious? What are they going to do, buy up 100 percent of American TV time? How about cutting the ****** price instead?

attadj
Jul 24, 2007, 07:19 PM
Anyone else find that line hilarious? What are they going to do, buy up 100 percent of American TV time? How about cutting the ****** price instead?

Ain't gonna happen. Apple always wants to keep the bar high so don't expect any price drops. They will just release V2 with more features and keep the prices the same. Look at all the cheap MP3 players out there, does it bring the Ipod prices down? No.

chicagdan
Jul 24, 2007, 07:27 PM
Ain't gonna happen. Apple always wants to keep the bar high so don't expect any price drops. They will just release V2 with more features and keep the prices the same. Look at all the cheap MP3 players out there, does it bring the Ipod prices down? No.

I know that's the plan, but more marketing? Come on ... this product has 100 percent saturation. More commercials aren't going to get me to buy one. If sales are leveling out, they're going to have to bite the bullet and give up some of those insane margins.

Claypidgeon
Jul 24, 2007, 07:31 PM
You can use your finger as a "mouse" when entering text. When the keyboard is visible, you can press your finger on the text, a magnifying lens pops up and shows you where the insertion cursor is being placed (under your finger). It's much easier to switch from typing with your fingers to placing the cursor on the same screen than to switch from a keyboard to a mouse.

Yeah, I'm aware of that little trick. It works ok in vertical mode, but not so well in horizontal (my preference) where you're working with three or so lines of text. I wish it was smart enough that if you were choosing text at the top of the screen the magnifying glass would move down below your finger (like the loupe tool in Aperature) instead of displaying off the top of the screen, or smart enough to rotate the keyboard orientation dynamically. The magnifying glass is "ok", but there are many times (at least for me anyway) that arrow keys would let me do what I needed to much quicker.

strangelogic
Jul 24, 2007, 07:36 PM
What stores were they visiting? ...

Anecdotal is anecdotal, but come on: people are clearly loving playtime with the iPhone. Doesn't mean they're buying, but they're definitely drawn to it -- here in Los Angeles at least (can it be so different everywhere else?).

I was in an Apple store in suburban DC today, wanting to try to see/snag the BT headset... and the salesperson told me 'Apple does not make a bluetooth headset, but any third party one should work nicely' ...

So - yeah - it can be 'so different' more different than I ever expected.

dr_lha
Jul 24, 2007, 08:14 PM
Yes.

I believe MR represents the demographic most likely to buy an iPhone.And since there was a big outcry about failed activations it tells me there were more from other demographics.
Demographics may be OK, but how the hell do you estimate numbers? You have no idea how many of the MR readers didn't have problems activating.

As with all issues, the people with problems always shout the loudest, and it always looks like its a problem everyone is having. This effect always happens on MR when Apple release a new product with some flaw, it appears like everyone is having the problem. The reality is in fact that the people with no problems simple don't bother posting.

lifeseeker
Jul 24, 2007, 08:34 PM
Traveling in Austin. Bought in Apple Store there Saturday (6/30) at noon. Activation took about 15 minutes with one call to AT & T. They were friendly, but useless. I hung up, and discovered a work-around. Activated a few minutes later to be counted in last quarter's numbers.

Everyone here (on Catalina Island) that I've shown it to wants one. Many have complained about the price, and switching off Verizon which is flat out better here.

My opinion: I love it, and am still finding ways to transition from the MacBook more and more functionality.

It's a winner.

mustang_dvs
Jul 24, 2007, 08:44 PM
Maybe I am an idiot, but... does AT&T use GMT or ... Alaska time or some bizzare deadline for the end of their quarter? I don't get 36 hours here. 6-12 on the 29th equals 6 and then 24 on the 30th... so that is 30 hours right? hmmmm and if they did use GMT it's actually even less...Technically, 31 hours. Their headquarters are in San Antonio, TX. iPhone went on sale in ET, they ended in CT.

I was using the general 36 hours in place of "a day and a half" without actually doing the calculation, but you're right. It is less than 36 hours.

Actually, 36 hours works, if you figure in time zones -- 6pm-12am EDT + 9pm-12am PDT = 9 hours
12am-12am EDT + 9pm-12am PDT = 27 hours

Total = 36 hours

AJsAWiz
Jul 24, 2007, 10:20 PM
I was in an Apple store in suburban DC today, wanting to try to see/snag the BT headset... and the salesperson told me 'Apple does not make a bluetooth headset, but any third party one should work nicely' ...

So - yeah - it can be 'so different' more different than I ever expected.

Maybe they were new and had no idea that Apple has this in their store online. I've noticed, often, that salespeople tend to make up answers instead of just saying "I don't know" :rolleyes:

bretm
Jul 24, 2007, 10:40 PM
Ain't gonna happen. Apple always wants to keep the bar high so don't expect any price drops. They will just release V2 with more features and keep the prices the same. Look at all the cheap MP3 players out there, does it bring the Ipod prices down? No.

Well, what did bring down iPod prices? A video iPod is $100+ cheaper than the original 5gig.

ajhill
Jul 25, 2007, 02:36 AM
Remember that analysts under perform the market averages 80% of the time. The 146,000 number is missing a few iPhones, like:

eBay speculators, of which there were 10,000 ebay listings after the first day.

Those who's activation was delayed past Saturday night due to problems switching carriers

Those who ordered from Apple website and received the iPhone 5-7 days later.

People who bought and activated on Sunday. Most estimates were for the first weekend, not the first evening and full day. That's leaving 10 hours of high demand phone sales out of the equation.

How high is the real number sold in the first weekend (not that this number means a thing) we hope to find out in Apple's conference call today...

wagwag22
Jul 25, 2007, 09:25 AM
As a lurker - this is my first post - but about to become an iPhone buyer - I had a question re this piece in today's paper :

"" CIBC World Markets said it expected Apple & AT & T to boost their marketing push for the iPhone, and they could introduce a new model in November - that operates on a faster network ""

Anyone any thoughts on the veracity / likelihood of this November introduction. ??


Should I wait to purchase - or will any November update enable one to upgrade today's iPhone ????

dernhelm
Jul 25, 2007, 10:08 AM
As a lurker - this is my first post - but about to become an iPhone buyer - I had a question re this piece in today's paper :

"" CIBC World Markets said it expected Apple & AT & T to boost their marketing push for the iPhone, and they could introduce a new model in November - that operates on a faster network ""

Anyone any thoughts on the veracity / likelihood of this November introduction. ??


Should I wait to purchase - or will any November update enable one to upgrade today's iPhone ????

Not going to happen in the US anyway. SJ seemed almost proud of his decision to limit the iPhone to G2 (2.5, whatever) data networks - mainly because the hardware to provide G3 access drained battery too much, and was too bulky/expensive. Apple does not see EDGE speeds as a limitation that will hit real users all that hard. Their target audience for the device has a lot of access to WiFi. There is no hardware to access a G3 network on the iPhone currently, so it isn't like it can be "turned on" by Apple via some update. It would be a whole new rev of the iPhone. And that simply isn't going to happen until next year sometime (at the earliest).

That said, there will likely be updates to the device from time to time. If you just want an iPhone, and don't need to make a decision quickly - I'd wait. Let the early adopters beat out the bugs, and let Apple respond with updates. If by some miracle, they produce a killer iPhone Nano for a whole lot less money, and that's all you need, then you'll look like a genius!

GTiPhone
Jul 25, 2007, 10:38 AM
Thread titles like this are nothing but annoying to see hovering around the forum. Hopefully this disappears soon...although posting in it causes the opposite of what I'm hoping for. :(

Demand Waning? WTF? Not any more than the demand for any other Apple product is "waning". Once there are enough units for everyone who wants one, the demand doesn't go down, it just becomes satisfied. Normal supply/demand effect.

ctakim
Jul 26, 2007, 12:41 AM
So on Wednesday, Apple released their numbers stating that in the last 30 hours of the quarter, 270,000 iPhones were sold (what the heck is wrong with AT&T?). Apple also sold a ton of Macs and iPods and blew past the analysts earning estimates for the quarter. IMHO 270,000 is a nice number, not too high, not too low and still pretty darn impressive. This number will only go up obviously and I would say it was a heck of a launch.

Hey everybody, get your feet back on the ground!:)

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 26, 2007, 01:58 PM
thank god this thread is now bunk... way to go apple!

tribe3
Jul 27, 2007, 05:25 AM
Well 600 bucks plus a monthly fee is a pretty steep price for a lot of people; especially those who would like to have it the most (teenagers). I see my daughter and son (19 and 20 years old), and all their friends just love it, but they're all broke - going to college and working -

The iPhne is not like the playstation 3 or xbox; there are only 3 gaming consoles that are worth having. There are hundreds of cheaper cells out there so the only thing that they are missing is the bling factor.

I wasn't going to buy an iPhone because I don't really need all the goodies but I went to the applestore for some software and when I saw it I felt the impulse. I love it, and I use mail and safari more than I thought I would; plus I don't carry my old big as a brick iPod anymore. (Google maps and directions are a plus I didn't expect to be so good)

Anyways, if Apple sold 270.000 or 270 I don't really care. I love it. It's a very sophisticated and well thought out piece of technology and it works great.

So, if it doesn't sell by the millions it's because of the price and not because ppl don't like it.

MacAgony
Aug 10, 2007, 04:12 AM
I have no doubt that the iPhone is a great device, but I will never buy one as long as it's locked to the AT&T service. Here's yet another reason why: AT&T is censoring free speech on their network.

From the Huffington Post:
AT&T: Your World Censored
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/att-your-world-censored_b_59737.html

I'd like to support Apple by buying an iPhone, but not AT&T.

Yankees 4 Life
Aug 10, 2007, 07:45 AM
I have no doubt that the iPhone is a great device, but I will never buy one as long as it's locked to the AT&T service. Here's yet another reason why: AT&T is censoring free speech on their network.

From the Huffington Post:
AT&T: Your World Censored
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/att-your-world-censored_b_59737.html

I'd like to support Apple by buying an iPhone, but not AT&T.

i dont understand, you want it unlocked so you can use it on t-mobile's useless network? also, you know visual voicemail wont work right? att is the cheapest network when it comes to total data in the country, unlocking it would make you guys all bitch and moan about how there isnt any visual voicemail and some other services due to unlocking...

beate
Aug 11, 2007, 12:36 AM
i dont understand, you want it unlocked so you can use it on t-mobile's useless network? also, you know visual voicemail wont work right? att is the cheapest network when it comes to total data in the country, unlocking it would make you guys all bitch and moan about how there isnt any visual voicemail and some other services due to unlocking...

Agreed. Data cost is unbelievable. I was worried it would be like a BB plan - ouch!

And visual voicemail - I've said it 100 times - Yay!!! For me it would be worth the price alone. I was with ATT but would have switched just to get that feature.
...Priceless.

As for waning demand...I know more people now that plan to buy one than I knew were planning on buying before/on launch.

MacAgony
Aug 11, 2007, 05:04 AM
Cheap data plan? Ha ha. You guys obviously never step foot outside the hallowed soil of the USA if you think that the iPhone with the AT&T data plan is inexpensive. Check this other thread in a MacRumors forum:

The $3,000 iPhone Bill (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=336146)

Specifically, how much in $ is visual voicemail worth to you if you're roaming?

But I still wouldn't support a network operator like AT&T that censors political expression on their network anyway.

beate
Aug 11, 2007, 01:04 PM
Cheap data plan? Ha ha. You guys obviously never step foot outside the hallowed soil of the USA if you think that the iPhone with the AT&T data plan is inexpensive. Check this other thread in a MacRumors forum:

The $3,000 iPhone Bill (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=336146)

Specifically, how much in $ is visual voicemail worth to you if you're roaming?

But I still wouldn't support a network operator like AT&T that censors political expression on their network anyway.

Obviously we are speaking of NORMAL usage. $20/mo is what I paid for crap services on prior phones. So bad that I cancelled the add-on service.

The phone is not available outside the US. There may be partnering or better Int. data plans at some point. I do think that ATT should add a feature to turn off Edge in the meantime.

Anyone running up a $3000 bill without knowing it is sort of...um..challenged.

"Political expression" - huh?

Cybergypsy
Aug 11, 2007, 01:51 PM
Obviously we are speaking of NORMAL usage. $20/mo is what I paid for crap services on prior phones. So bad that I cancelled the add-on service.

The phone is not available outside the US. There may be partnering or better Int. data plans at some point. I do think that ATT should add a feature to turn off Edge in the meantime.

Anyone running up a $3000 bill without knowing it is sort of...um..challenged.

"Political expression" - huh?


Challenged is a under statement.......

timswim78
Aug 11, 2007, 02:52 PM
I think it can be seen as a good thing if not too many iPhones sold. That will cause Apple to revisit their design, pricing, etc., and things will get better.

If the iPhone continued to sell out and break sales records there would not be as much incentive for Apple to improve the product.

speedyj88
Aug 11, 2007, 03:48 PM
I think it can be seen as a good thing if not too many iPhones sold. That will cause Apple to revisit their design, pricing, etc., and things will get better.

If the iPhone continued to sell out and break sales records there would not be as much incentive for Apple to improve the product.

Shareholders will not hold the same opinion as you. :rolleyes:

megfilmworks
Aug 11, 2007, 07:29 PM
I think it can be seen as a good thing if not too many iPhones sold. That will cause Apple to revisit their design, pricing, etc., and things will get better..Don't hold your breath. It is already the most successful phone ever sold. It is only going to get better. As far as att, they are all the same. If you want to stage a political protest, that's fine, but as for me, I don't live in the Twilight Zone.

timswim78
Aug 11, 2007, 10:08 PM
Shareholders will not hold the same opinion as you. :rolleyes:

Shareholders will hold the company accountable. The company will work to sell more products to improve profits.

:rolleyes:

Don't hold your breath. It is already the most successful phone ever sold. It is only going to get better. As far as att, they are all the same. If you want to stage a political protest, that's fine, but as for me, I don't live in the Twilight Zone.

I have no idea what your statements mean. WOuld you care to clarify?

Hold my breath for what?
ATT is the same as who?
What political protest?
Twilight zone?

zap2
Aug 11, 2007, 10:21 PM
I have no doubt that the iPhone is a great device, but I will never buy one as long as it's locked to the AT&T service. Here's yet another reason why: AT&T is censoring free speech on their network.

From the Huffington Post:
AT&T: Your World Censored
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/timothy-karr/att-your-world-censored_b_59737.html

I'd like to support Apple by buying an iPhone, but not AT&T.


Duh, the market would be bigger, T-Mobile users, international users. But Apple wants a cheaper plan for iPhone, a cut of the profits, visual voice mall etc.

HiRez
Aug 11, 2007, 11:25 PM
There is no hardware to access a G3 network on the iPhone currently, so it isn't like it can be "turned on" by Apple via some update. It would be a whole new rev of the iPhone.Well, it could be possible for AT&T to increase EDGE speeds somehow...more infrastructure, compression, optimization...whatever. Furthermore, Safari on iPhone could use better caching, it doesn't seem like it does it aggressively enough.

And page rendering seems very slow in Safari. Even over WiFi, on the same connection, the same page will render MUCH faster on any desktop Mac than in iPhone (World of Warcraft site for example, 7 secs vs. 30 secs). Maybe it's the limitation of the iPhone's CPU, but it's also very likely that Safari for iPhone has a lot of room left for optimization. It's clearly for all practical purposes still an early beta version, like most 1.0 software that Apple rolls out. Now that won't make EDGE faster, but it could give the perception of it.

megfilmworks
Aug 11, 2007, 11:38 PM
Shareholders will hold the company accountable. The company will work to sell more products to improve profits.

:rolleyes:



I have no idea what your statements mean. WOuld you care to clarify?

Hold my breath for what?
ATT is the same as who?
What political protest?
Twilight zone?
That Apple will change the most successful phone ever sold because of weak sales.
ATT is the same as all the other carriers
And the other comments, political protest and Twilight Zone were for previous poster who said att is censoring free speech.

diamond.g
Aug 12, 2007, 07:33 AM
Obviously we are speaking of NORMAL usage. $20/mo is what I paid for crap services on prior phones. So bad that I cancelled the add-on service.

The phone is not available outside the US. There may be partnering or better Int. data plans at some point. I do think that ATT should add a feature to turn off Edge in the meantime.

Anyone running up a $3000 bill without knowing it is sort of...um..challenged.

"Political expression" - huh?

Challenged is a under statement.......
:confused:
No I think it is an overstatement. No one knew, for sure, how much data the phone uses at any given moment. Apple made this device super dependent on having Internet access. With no easy way of having the phone not use EDGE, yet still work as a phone.

But I guess the iPhone is too much phone for people that actually leave their country ever once and a while, huh? People like that should just stick to their BlackBerries and Windows Mobile phones :rolleyes:.

seafurydriver
Aug 12, 2007, 08:09 AM
Challenged is a under statement.......

Give me a break. Just because I'm a business users of the iphone am I supposed to spend my day trying to figure out how much data is pouring into this thing? I spent the first ten days of this month in China while my iphone ran up what I can only imagine will be a $1000-$2000 bill. No one ever offered me an intl. data plan when I signed up for the intl. voice plan. All I did was have my phone on, in case my office called. Is that worth $2000?

I feel like a guy who's just come home to discover that a water main has broken in his backyard and the water company is there to charge him for the flood.

While I'm a big fan of the iphone this is a serious problem for Apple, and will drive business users away until a solution is reached.

terminator
Aug 12, 2007, 08:16 AM
This just goes back to the fact that Analysts know almost nothing.

They predicted 500,000 and now are predicting 200,000 based on the activation numbers?

Where did they get 500,000? They took a wild guess it seems.

arn

yeah, the damn analysts are always doing this, just make the stock price up and down.

terminator
Aug 12, 2007, 09:15 AM
Give me a break. Just because I'm a business users of the iphone am I supposed to spend my day trying to figure out how much data is pouring into this thing? I spent the first ten days of this month in China while my iphone ran up what I can only imagine will be a $1000-$2000 bill. No one ever offered me an intl. data plan when I signed up for the intl. voice plan. All I did was have my phone on, in case my office called. Is that worth $2000?

I feel like a guy who's just come home to discover that a water main has broken in his backyard and the water company is there to charge him for the flood.

While I'm a big fan of the iphone this is a serious problem for Apple, and will drive business users away until a solution is reached.
OMG, That's serious.

megfilmworks
Aug 12, 2007, 09:35 AM
I leave for Europe in two weeks, and this data roaming does have me worried.
I'll be calling att before leaving to clarify these muddy waters. I guess I could turn off email, and only use wifi, but are there more hidden data gets like weather, visual voicemail, etc?

Maui
Aug 12, 2007, 10:38 AM
I leave for Europe in two weeks, and this data roaming does have me worried.
I'll be calling att before leaving to clarify these muddy waters. I guess I could turn off email, and only use wifi, but are there more hidden data gets like weather, visual voicemail, etc?

Meg--Walt Mossberg has a pretty good rundown on the cost of using the iPhone outside the US (http://mailbox.allthingsd.com/20070719/using-the-iphone-overseas-for-data-purposes/).

beate
Aug 12, 2007, 01:12 PM
yeah, the damn analysts are always doing this, just make the stock price up and down.

You're actually correct - though it's not the analysts.

megfilmworks
Aug 12, 2007, 10:27 PM
Meg--Walt Mossberg has a pretty good rundown on the cost of using the iPhone outside the US (http://mailbox.allthingsd.com/20070719/using-the-iphone-overseas-for-data-purposes/).

Thank you very much!! Quite an interesting article.

Ubuntu
Aug 12, 2007, 11:31 PM
It is interesting to note that perhaps most of the criticisms of any analyst comments are found in this thread.

megfilmworks
Aug 12, 2007, 11:40 PM
It is interesting to note that perhaps most of the criticisms of any analyst comments are found in this thread.
Maybe it was all those sad faces staring at me, but I'm not sure I understand your post.

Ubuntu
Aug 13, 2007, 09:01 PM
Maybe it was all those sad faces staring at me, but I'm not sure I understand your post.

I am saying that personally, most of the criticisms of analysts I have seen, are in this thread.