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MacRumors
Jul 25, 2007, 01:13 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple appears to be making steady progress on Leopard and provided ADC Developers with a new seed today.

The newest seed (9A499) reportedly has introduced a number of new bugs, but subjective reports indicate it feels much faster.

This is the first Leopard update released to developers since the WWDC build was finally seeded earlier this month (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/02/apple-releases-leopard-9a466-wwdc-build-to-adc-members/).

Apple publicly demoed Leopard at WWDC in June and is expected to released Mac OS X Leopard in October of this year.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/25/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-leopard-9a499-to-developers/)



DVNIEL
Jul 25, 2007, 01:15 PM
closer to the day they let the kitty out of its cage

chrisdazzo
Jul 25, 2007, 01:17 PM
I honestly cannot wait. :D

totolad
Jul 25, 2007, 01:17 PM
I can't wait any longer! I hope it is going to be wiorth the wait, does anyone think that there are going to be any features that have not been shown?

kddpop
Jul 25, 2007, 01:20 PM
I can't wait any longer! I hope it is going to be wiorth the wait, does anyone think that there are going to be any features that have not been shown?

not me. if anything, i think we might see some features evaporate. but that's just stinkin thinkin.

-kyle

bazzler
Jul 25, 2007, 01:21 PM
I can't wait any longer! I hope it is going to be wiorth the wait, does anyone think that there are going to be any features that have not been shown?

Nothing major - maybe some enhancements to existing apps / features that havent been mentioned. I reckon leopard is being made stable and then some spit and polish will be applied.

DVNIEL
Jul 25, 2007, 01:21 PM
I can't wait any longer! I hope it is going to be wiorth the wait, does anyone think that there are going to be any features that have not been shown?

The things I'm hoping for is more iPhone interaction (remote control, wireless syncing) and that they didn't remove the iChat feature to share screens and control others computers. I would dearly love that cause a few of my friends ask me to troubleshoot their computers and I hate having to be super descriptive for them to get it, i can just manually do it for them through iChat and not have to mess with more complex VNC programs.

dashiel
Jul 25, 2007, 01:23 PM
The things I'm hoping for is more iPhone interaction (remote control, wireless syncing) and that they didn't remove the iChat feature to share screens and control others computers. I would dearly love that cause a few of my friends ask me to troubleshoot their computers and I hate having to be super descriptive for them to get it, i can just manually do it for them through iChat and not have to mess with more complex VNC programs.

it's in there. just not in ichat anymore.

bjoggi
Jul 25, 2007, 01:26 PM
Nice!

They're making some progress I see, me like a lot :)

iJawn108
Jul 25, 2007, 01:28 PM
I want it :(

vandlism
Jul 25, 2007, 01:31 PM
9a466 stil had iChat screen sharing, at least its button was still in the bottom of the iChat contact list.

luke_s
Jul 25, 2007, 01:36 PM
yeah, every new patch of something apple makes makes os x snappier, mine is so snappy it acts before i do :D

kddpop
Jul 25, 2007, 01:37 PM
9a466 stil had iChat screen sharing, at least its button was still in the bottom of the iChat contact list.

i just checked the demo of the leopard ichat and there is no mention of the desktop sharing. and, if my recollection is correct, this feature was not mentioned at the big reveal of all the features of leopard. may not bode well for that feature.

Siouxsie
Jul 25, 2007, 01:38 PM
Nice of them to increase the number of bugs in every new release ;p

Nah, I'm happy to see signs of development, indicating the release is closing in =) I'll get my first mac (MacBook Pro 2.2) in a week or so, I love Mac, but I've never even bought a computer for myself earlier. I've just used my folks' PCs. The current one in my bedroom is a 333MHz Dell XPS ;) That'll indicate it's age.

I'm really excited, both about the MBP and soon Leopard (I'll probably buy an iPod with Leopard, if it's up to 6G by then.)

dashiel
Jul 25, 2007, 01:44 PM
i just checked the demo of the leopard ichat and there is no mention of the desktop sharing. and, if my recollection is correct, this feature was not mentioned at the big reveal of all the features of leopard. may not bode well for that feature.

watch the demo of the finder... as the presenter selects shared computers from the side bar there's a button to "share screen"

rickster2k
Jul 25, 2007, 01:45 PM
essentially two months to go - should not be too long now until it goes Gold Master - wonder if the recent iLife rumor means that the two are coming together.

bigandy
Jul 25, 2007, 01:46 PM
From what i've read over at ThinkSecret earlier, while it's faster, it's less stable, with more bugs.

:rolleyes:


Looking good :o

vandlism
Jul 25, 2007, 01:54 PM
i just checked the demo of the leopard ichat and there is no mention of the desktop sharing.

Image of iChat from January (http://flickr.com/photos/wildabeast71/356592192/)

On the bottom of the iChat contact list is a row of four buttons. I am most curious about the one on the far right, is that iChat Theater or Screen Sharing?

Edit: It just dawned on me that WWDC was in June, not January, so that's an out of date picture of iChat. Regardless, that button is still in iChat in 9a466.

DanB91
Jul 25, 2007, 01:55 PM
the screen sharing feature is there for ichat

glennyboiwpg
Jul 25, 2007, 02:00 PM
woah woah woah people lets not get ahead of ourselves....

we have to wait for iphone version 2 before we can get leopard.:rolleyes::cool:

Goldcard
Jul 25, 2007, 02:10 PM
woah woah woah people lets not get ahead of ourselves....

we have to wait for iphone version 2 before we can get leopard.:rolleyes::cool:

wow that only took 21 posts for an iphone to be brought into a thread irrelevant to the iphone :p:p

Old Rogue
Jul 25, 2007, 02:14 PM
it's in there. just not in ichat anymore.
Could you expand on that a little? It was a promised feature early on, maybe a year ago, but it seems to have disappeared from the Leopard Tour site at Apple.

jakebot
Jul 25, 2007, 02:21 PM
Could you expand on that a little? It was a promised feature early on, maybe a year ago, but it seems to have disappeared from the Leopard Tour site at Apple.

Apple has a disclaimer that says that some features may not be included in the final version. Steve doesnt "promise" any of the new features. It would be kind weird to hear him say "I promise there will be a new finder in leopard"

ortuno2k
Jul 25, 2007, 02:22 PM
Glad to see they're working on it.
Even though I can't wait, I will probably wait 'till 10.5.2 or .3
Or maybe I won't be able to wait! Way to go Apple :)

thesdx
Jul 25, 2007, 02:24 PM
woah woah woah people lets not get ahead of ourselves....

we have to wait for iphone version 2 before we can get leopard.:rolleyes::cool:

I don't think "iPhone 2" will come out this year. I don't really want it to. Apple needs to focus on their Macs. PLEASE, GIVE US THOSE SHINY NEW IMACS! :(

kenaustus
Jul 25, 2007, 02:25 PM
From the AI comments by a user of the new version making it faster has added sufficient bugs to make the guy recommend people use the older version.

Looks like a a lot of bugs left to work on right now - no time to think about going Gold for a while.

Personally I'll wait, quite happy with what I have (I'm a switcher so even 10.2 was nice) and will upgrade when the initial excitement over Leopard's release dies down.

zeebe
Jul 25, 2007, 02:25 PM
wow that only took 21 posts for an iphone to be brought into a thread irrelevant to the iphone :p:p

Actually, look back at post #7!!!! It was there too!:)

zioxide
Jul 25, 2007, 02:33 PM
So is that ugly ****ing menubar and dock gone yet?

mklos
Jul 25, 2007, 02:36 PM
From what i've read over at ThinkSecret earlier, while it's faster, it's less stable, with more bugs.

:rolleyes:


Looking good :o

Thats why its called a "beta" version! ;) I wish they'd go back to the Tiger menu bar. The menu bar in Leopard is very hard to see with most desktop pictures. I shouldn't be limited to what desktop pics I can choose just because of the menu bar is completely transparent.

glennyboiwpg
Jul 25, 2007, 02:37 PM
So is that ugly ****ing menubar and dock gone yet?

ahh.... hmmm if you don't like the menu bar or the dock.... maybe you should try vista... the dock and menu bar are kinda important on OS X. I don't see them going away any time soon...

Nermal
Jul 25, 2007, 02:41 PM
Does it play HD DVD yet? :D

JD92
Jul 25, 2007, 02:42 PM
ahh.... hmmm if you don't like the menu bar or the dock.... maybe you should try vista...

Vista is actually one GORGEOUS operating system, personally I think Apple should maybe get some inspiration from Vista.

thiagofll
Jul 25, 2007, 02:42 PM
yeah, every new patch of something apple makes makes os x snappier, mine is so snappy it acts before i do :D

Luke, I have the 9A466 Version, I have tried software update but it tells me that I have the latest version, how do I update it to 9A499?
Thanks in advance

Nermal
Jul 25, 2007, 02:44 PM
I think you need to download the whole thing from Connect.

Edit: And it's almost 7 gig! :eek:

Stridder44
Jul 25, 2007, 02:44 PM
Vista is actually one GORGEOUS operating system, personally I think Apple should maybe get some inspiration from Vista.


I hate to admit it, but I kinda dig the glass look the windows get. Too bad it's such a nice look built on top of such a crappy OS.

dahacouk
Jul 25, 2007, 02:49 PM
I'm specially interested in any changes to the Address Book...

Does the IM field have any increase in the number of options (ICQ, Jabber, etc)? Is Skype in there now? Grrrrr!

Any other changes?

Funny, I'm less concerned with look - I want usability and productivity tools!

Cheers Daniel

Wayfarer
Jul 25, 2007, 02:52 PM
I hate to admit it, but I kinda dig the glass look the windows get. Too bad it's such a nice look built on top of such a crappy OS.

*GASP* :eek:

But... Vista = Tiger 2.0! Let's not forget who's the copycat here. ;)

shadowfax
Jul 25, 2007, 02:55 PM
anybody know about the status of ZFS booting? I hope they manage to support it on time, or at least in a software update.

shawnce
Jul 25, 2007, 02:56 PM
I'm specially interested in any changes to the Address Book... It is under NDA so I hope no one answers you ... I like having access to seeds for development and the more folks that break NDA the later and later we will could get seed access in the future.

shawnce
Jul 25, 2007, 02:57 PM
Luke, I have the 9A466 Version, I have tried software update but it tells me that I have the latest version, how do I update it to 9A499?
Thanks in advance

If you are an Apple developer with seed access you can download it from ADC.

shawnce
Jul 25, 2007, 03:01 PM
Glad to see they're working on it. What you think they all on vacation? :D

lofight
Jul 25, 2007, 03:04 PM
So is that ugly ****ing menubar and dock gone yet?

You can make the menubar back normal in the system preferences in leopard.

willybNL
Jul 25, 2007, 03:05 PM
I'm specially interested in any changes to the Address Book...

Does the IM field have any increase in the number of options (ICQ, Jabber, etc)? Is Skype in there now? Grrrrr!

Any other changes?

Funny, I'm less concerned with look - I want usability and productivity tools!

Cheers Daniel

Daniel,

same here... Adress book just misses every aspect of being an Apple app. See my comment on http://guides.macrumors.com/OS-X_Wish_List (and your list ;):)

prth8machine
Jul 25, 2007, 03:08 PM
I haven't had any problems seeing the menu bar in leopard. I've put a full black desktop up, and I could easily see the menu bar. It turns it a light gray so you can see words just fine. As for the screen sharing thing, there is still the button on the bottom of the buddy list in iChat, that when you mouse over the tooltip reads "Start Screen Sharing". I don't know anybody else using Leopard, so it doesn't do anything when I click the button right now.

EagerDragon
Jul 25, 2007, 03:08 PM
I can't wait any longer! I hope it is going to be wiorth the wait, does anyone think that there are going to be any features that have not been shown?

Yes, they quoted over 300 new features of which we saw something like 10. However the majority are probably not things that you can see but things that happend under the hood and new system calls that are exposed to developers.

CANEHDN
Jul 25, 2007, 03:11 PM
I'm excited for it but I wonder how much nicer it's going to be. I mean of course it will look different but I'm interested in OS performance.

Porchland
Jul 25, 2007, 03:15 PM
essentially two months to go - should not be too long now until it goes Gold Master - wonder if the recent iLife rumor means that the two are coming together.

I think yes. Otherwise, if iLife comes out instead at Macworld, Apple would be shipping Macs with Leopard and an almost two-year old iLife in October, November and December and then shipping Macs with a brand new iLife starting in January. Just doesn't make much sense.

New OS and New iLife in early October.

Evangelion
Jul 25, 2007, 03:17 PM
ahh.... hmmm if you don't like the menu bar or the dock.... maybe you should try vista... the dock and menu bar are kinda important on OS X. I don't see them going away any time soon...

i don't think he was talking about mac os menubar and the dock as such, rather their specific implementations in leopard. you know, the transparent menubar as opposed to solid white and the pseudo 3d-dock?

Porchland
Jul 25, 2007, 03:21 PM
Daniel,

same here... Adress book just misses every aspect of being an Apple app. See my comment on http://guides.macrumors.com/OS-X_Wish_List (and your list ;):)

I was disappointed when Tiger came out and Address Book, Mail and iCal weren't merged into one Outlook-ish app. It's apparently not going to happen in Leopard either. Instead, we're supposed to turn cartwheels over Mail because it will have a tasks function?

There are some things I really like about Mail -- searching, interface, etc. -- but this is the one area where I actually (holding my nose) prefer Microsoft.

mozmac
Jul 25, 2007, 03:22 PM
Hey, does anyone know how much it costs to become an Apple developer? I'm sure I could find the information out on my own with some digging, but I imagine there are probably a few on this list that could give me some details on pricing and the different levels of developer memberships that exist.

Thanks!

Alloye
Jul 25, 2007, 03:32 PM
Vista is actually one GORGEOUS operating system, personally I think Apple should maybe get some inspiration from Vista.

I couldn't disagree more. I think Vista (Aero) is garish, distracting, and overdone. I much prefer the clean, unified look Apple is going for with Leopard. My only real complaint is Leopard's transparent menu bar. It also falls in the category of garish and distracting.

Fukui
Jul 25, 2007, 03:32 PM
Hey, does anyone know how much it costs to become an Apple developer? I'm sure I could find the information out on my own with some digging, but I imagine there are probably a few on this list that could give me some details on pricing and the different levels of developer memberships that exist.

Thanks!
$0

...and I think I'll skip this build...

Sharkus
Jul 25, 2007, 03:37 PM
Hey, does anyone know how much it costs to become an Apple developer? I'm sure I could find the information out on my own with some digging, but I imagine there are probably a few on this list that could give me some details on pricing and the different levels of developer memberships that exist.

Thanks!

You can find ADC membership pricing here (http://developer.apple.com/products/)

If I recall only Select and Premier memberships include ADC Seeding which is where the Leopard update can be downloaded from.

theheyes
Jul 25, 2007, 03:39 PM
Seems a few of you like the Vista UI. Its alright. No more, no less. In fact, the first time I saw it I thought "yeah, its nice, but its going to age really badly." As slick as it is, it still retains some fisher-pricery.

As for the new developer build, meh. Wake me up when its on general sale.

ilogic
Jul 25, 2007, 03:39 PM
Day 1, buying it.

Alloye
Jul 25, 2007, 03:40 PM
Hey, does anyone know how much it costs to become an Apple developer? I'm sure I could find the information out on my own with some digging, but I imagine there are probably a few on this list that could give me some details on pricing and the different levels of developer memberships that exist.

This page (http://developer.apple.com/products/) has the information you need. You need either a Select (http://developer.apple.com/products/select.html) or Premier (http://developer.apple.com/products/premier.html) membership to gain access to Leopard seeds.

bdj21ya
Jul 25, 2007, 03:42 PM
Could you expand on that a little? It was a promised feature early on, maybe a year ago, but it seems to have disappeared from the Leopard Tour site at Apple.

As I understand it, they've just moved it to the finder network section, where it makes a lot more sense in my opinion.

arkmannj
Jul 25, 2007, 03:44 PM
it's in there. just not in ichat anymore.

Hmm bummer I thought iChat was a perfect place.
Is anyone allowed to say where it's at now ?
It's not going to turn into a .Mac only service is it ? :( :confused:

I am REALLY looking forward to this as a key feature, I plan on buying Leopard not only for me, but additional copies for family members. IT will save me loads of time.

bdj21ya
Jul 25, 2007, 03:46 PM
I couldn't disagree more. I think Vista (Aero) is garish, distracting, and overdone. I much prefer the clean, unified look Apple is going for with Leopard. My only real complaint is Leopard's transparent menu bar. It also falls in the category of garish and distracting.

Agreed on all counts. It's nice that they're moving towards a unified UI. Transparent menubar is ugly, distracting, and performs no useful function.

Aero is ugly principally because of the buttons in the upper right of Windows, and the stupidity of transparent windows. It's a lame attempt at adding features. Not too keen on the black, but I'll admit that one to preference, and won't respect anyone's sense of style less for liking black.

bdj21ya
Jul 25, 2007, 03:48 PM
Hmm bummer I thought iChat was a perfect place.
Is anyone allowed to say where it's at now ?
It's not going to turn into a .Mac only service is it ? :( :confused:

I am REALLY looking forward to this as a key feature, I plan on buying Leopard not only for me, but additional copies for family members. IT will save me loads of time.

In the Finder, when you connect to networked computers. Brings up the question though, will there be any way to do this over the internet, sans .mac?

phillipjfry
Jul 25, 2007, 03:48 PM
So... it's "snappier"? :rolleyes:

New leopard slogan

"it's....snappier" :)

it will be nice to use an OS that actually harnesses the power of 64bit

Fukui
Jul 25, 2007, 03:50 PM
As I understand it, they've just moved it to the finder network section, where it makes a lot more sense in my opinion.
I don't know about that...... what about when your not on a lan, and need to help someone across the country?? I don't think that would show up in the finder....

sparkleytone
Jul 25, 2007, 03:55 PM
I was disappointed when Tiger came out and Address Book, Mail and iCal weren't merged into one Outlook-ish app. It's apparently not going to happen in Leopard either. Instead, we're supposed to turn cartwheels over Mail because it will have a tasks function?

There are some things I really like about Mail -- searching, interface, etc. -- but this is the one area where I actually (holding my nose) prefer Microsoft.

It has been shown time and again that this is one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes. Consolidation of functionalities in a single application can only go so far before the app becomes bloated and confusing (see Outlook). IMNSHO Apple has taken the right approach and created dead simple applications that perform dedicated functions, allowing their respective UI to custom-fit the functions, and enabling them to communicate with each other easily and quickly. This approach simply makes more sense and allows Apple to enable more people to leverage more functionality.

twoodcc
Jul 25, 2007, 04:32 PM
closer to the day they let the kitty out of its cage

yes it is! this is great news. one step closer

offwidafairies
Jul 25, 2007, 05:52 PM
Day 1, buying it.
ditto. in fact day 1 buying new puter to match the os :D

Bregalad
Jul 25, 2007, 06:31 PM
I haven't had any problems seeing the menu bar in leopard. I've put a full black desktop up, and I could easily see the menu bar. It turns it a light gray so you can see words just fine. As for the screen sharing thing, there is still the button on the bottom of the buddy list in iChat, that when you mouse over the tooltip reads "Start Screen Sharing". I don't know anybody else using Leopard, so it doesn't do anything when I click the button right now.

The fact that you had to put up a full black desktop to use the menubar is proof that transparency needs to be an OPTION which, as of the WWDC build, it is not.

I'd also like to address the Mail, iCal, Address Book integration topic. Think about it this way: how much sense does it make to have to launch your email application to update your address book? Isn't it much smarter to update once and have those changes available to email, chat, VOIP, word processing, etc. apps?
Adding tasks to Mail.app seems totally backward to me. Who thinks it's logical to answer the question "what do I need to get done today?" by looking at your email? Wouldn't your first thought be to open a time based tool like a calendar?

zioxide
Jul 25, 2007, 07:03 PM
ahh.... hmmm if you don't like the menu bar or the dock.... maybe you should try vista... the dock and menu bar are kinda important on OS X. I don't see them going away any time soon...

umm... no. I love the menubar and dock. The leopard one is just ugly as **** with unnecessary eye "candy" (more like eyepain). The Tiger ones are much better.

tuartboy
Jul 25, 2007, 07:09 PM
So is that ugly menubar and dock gone yet?

While I don't mind the dock, I have found the new menubar to be very annoying on apps that take up the whole screen. While I have not installed it on my MP with big 24" monitors and no need to run anything full size, my little 12" PB runs nearly every window at 1024x768. On Tiger it was fine, but on Leopard there is this weird transparent line that distracts my eye.

They should at least make a way to turn it off.

Edit: 1 complaint with the dock. The little black triangles have been replaced with glowing blue dots that can't be seen easily. On a low contrast screen like my PB you can hardly see them at all. Very upset at that as well.

ortuno2k
Jul 25, 2007, 07:12 PM
umm... no. I love the menubar and dock. The leopard one is just ugly as **** with unnecessary eye "candy" (more like eyepain). The Tiger ones are much better.

I agree that the transparent menu bar is just fugly - it should be an option or be gone!
And the default wallpaper should be gone too - looks Vista..ish

Glad they're making progress, too.

sine-nomine
Jul 25, 2007, 07:23 PM
I haven't heard, but I was curious - does Leopard supports case-sensitive filenames? OS X server has since Panther if I remember right, but so far I've heard nothing about it in the non-server Leopard.

Genghis Khan
Jul 25, 2007, 07:26 PM
buying it first day...and hopefully there won't be that many people in australia wanting to buy it so much as to sell out first day

DeanCorp
Jul 25, 2007, 07:45 PM
You know what I want more than Leopard? A new update of Mac Messenger, it is terribly outdated, can't do voice clips, voice conversations or video conferencing. I think it is disgusting that they have abandoned it for so long!

DeanCorp

Sbrocket
Jul 25, 2007, 07:50 PM
I agree that the transparent menu bar is just fugly - it should be an option or be gone!
And the default wallpaper should be gone too - looks Vista..ish

Glad they're making progress, too.

Let me ask you a question...have you used Leopard yet, or are you just basing this off of the keynote and leaked/Apple images?

I thought this at first too, but since actually using Leopard I've changed my tune. Concerns about eating processor cycles with fancy effects are also misplaced; a simple Core Animation mirror effect (like on the new dock) isn't going to be noticeable, much less run your machine into the ground.

Fukui
Jul 25, 2007, 08:10 PM
Let me ask you a question...have you used Leopard yet, or are you just basing this off of the keynote and leaked/Apple images?

I thought this at first too, but since actually using Leopard I've changed my tune. Concerns about eating processor cycles with fancy effects are also misplaced; a simple Core Animation mirror effect (like on the new dock) isn't going to be noticeable, much less run your machine into the ground.

I have used Leopard for the past month, full time, and I agree with the original poster... the 'look' of leopard leaves much to be desired.

sparkleytone
Jul 25, 2007, 08:41 PM
You know what I want more than Leopard? A new update of Mac Messenger, it is terribly outdated, can't do voice clips, voice conversations or video conferencing. I think it is disgusting that they have abandoned it for so long!

DeanCorp

Tiger supports this...maybe even Panther did. You just have to have your drive formatted as Case Sensitive HFS+. This may break some applications, but from what I've read it's not a problem that shows up too often.

Welly
Jul 25, 2007, 08:45 PM
Vista is actually one GORGEOUS operating system, personally I think Apple should maybe get some inspiration from Vista.

Those are words of either a comedian or a madman. Which one are you? Vista is ugly, cluttered, unintuitive and completely without style or consistency. The day Apple gets one iota of inspiration from Vista is the day my Macbook Pro goes up for sale.

zub3qin
Jul 25, 2007, 09:25 PM
I have used Leopard for the past month, full time, and I agree with the original poster... the 'look' of leopard leaves much to be desired.

Fukui-
Are you free to comment on Spotlight in Leopard?
Is it working any better than in 10.4? I don't mean boolean searches with and/or...
I mean is it finding new files/emails without difficulty? Lots of problems with Spotlight in 10.4.

vansouza
Jul 25, 2007, 09:47 PM
You can find ADC membership pricing here (http://developer.apple.com/products/)

If I recall only Select and Premier memberships include ADC Seeding which is where the Leopard update can be downloaded from.

I had no idea that you could buy a system at a huge discount if you sign up for the beta program... waiting for the new iMacs...

BKKbill
Jul 25, 2007, 10:14 PM
umm... Leopard eye candy on my new iMac. Still waiting. :)

kalisphoenix
Jul 25, 2007, 10:31 PM
Those are words of either a comedian or a madman. Which one are you? Vista is ugly, cluttered, unintuitive and completely without style or consistency. The day Apple gets one iota of inspiration from Vista is the day my Macbook Pro goes up for sale.

Start a new thread in the Marketplace, then, because OS X's been copying from Vista almost as much as Vista has been copying from it.

Does anyone know if LEAP works right in this build? My iPhone not working with LEAP is bad enough.

Sbrocket
Jul 25, 2007, 10:33 PM
Start a new thread in the Marketplace, then, because OS X's been copying from Vista almost as much as Vista has been copying from it.

Does anyone know if LEAP works right in this build? My iPhone not working with LEAP is bad enough.

What exactly has Leopard copied from Vista? Can you actually point out anything, or are you just talking?

ventro
Jul 25, 2007, 10:55 PM
What exactly has Leopard copied from Vista?
Transparent menubar, the blurring of the background behind transparent windows, transparent glossy black UI for the iPhone's 'slide to unlock' element and home screen, all was done on Vista before seen on OSX. Also the curvy line that runs through the new dock is very reminiscent of the pattern that MS uses behind their 'glass' apps. Both look butt ugly.

Sbrocket
Jul 25, 2007, 11:13 PM
Transparent menubar, the blurring of the background behind transparent windows, transparent glossy black UI for the iPhone's 'slide to unlock' element and home screen, all was done on Vista before seen on OSX. Also the curvy line that runs through the new dock is very reminiscent of the pattern that MS uses behind their 'glass' apps. Both look butt ugly.

So basically all you can come up with that Leopard has allegedly copied are graphics and visual design. Nothing that has to do with actual usability. Well first, the iPhone has nothing to do with Leopard. I'm not even going to try to refute that Leopard copied the idea of transparency in user interface elements from Vista because that's a fairly basic concept. If that's all that people can come up with, though, its a pretty weak and useless argument to outright state that "Leopard copied Vista."

solvs
Jul 26, 2007, 12:07 AM
I haven't heard, but I was curious - does Leopard supports case-sensitive filenames? OS X server has since Panther if I remember right, but so far I've heard nothing about it in the non-server Leopard.
You can do that now in Disk Utility. You just have to format your drive as Case Sensitive. Leopard is no different.

You know what I want more than Leopard? A new update of Mac Messenger, it is terribly outdated, can't do voice clips, voice conversations or video conferencing. I think it is disgusting that they have abandoned it for so long!
You do know that's a Microsoft app right?

verniesgarden
Jul 26, 2007, 12:47 AM
What exactly has Leopard copied from Vista? Can you actually point out anything, or are you just talking?

it copied the "it's gonna be out this date then delay the release date" concept from vista

metallicaisgood
Jul 26, 2007, 01:13 AM
Those are words of either a comedian or a madman. Which one are you? Vista is ugly, cluttered, unintuitive and completely without style or consistency. The day Apple gets one iota of inspiration from Vista is the day my Macbook Pro goes up for sale.

I quite like Vista's UI, I wonder if you've even used Vista?

Project
Jul 26, 2007, 01:24 AM
Transparent menubar, the blurring of the background behind transparent windows, transparent glossy black UI for the iPhone's 'slide to unlock' element and home screen, all was done on Vista before seen on OSX. Also the curvy line that runs through the new dock is very reminiscent of the pattern that MS uses behind their 'glass' apps. Both look butt ugly.


Erm, Apple has been using smoked black glossy UI elements since 2004.

QuarterSwede
Jul 26, 2007, 01:30 AM
I quite like Vista's UI, I wonder if you've even used Vista?
Vista's UI is better and much more polished than XP's for sure but he is right, it is very inconsistent (the menu bars change from app to app, etc.). Even Windows fanboys have mentioned that annoyance.

Tuishimi
Jul 26, 2007, 01:38 AM
I am more interested in the changes made to the scheduler and threading. Changes like that can mean a big deal in performance. I also wonder if they are addressing the "big lock" issues?

Sbrocket
Jul 26, 2007, 03:02 AM
it copied the "it's gonna be out this date then delay the release date" concept from vista

At least they haven't changed the codename of the OS yet.

:p:p

Cloudsurfer
Jul 26, 2007, 04:50 AM
Transparent menubar, the blurring of the background behind transparent windows, transparent glossy black UI for the iPhone's 'slide to unlock' element and home screen, all was done on Vista before seen on OSX. Also the curvy line that runs through the new dock is very reminiscent of the pattern that MS uses behind their 'glass' apps. Both look butt ugly.

I'm sorry, but not because the new menu bar is transparent makes it a rip off from Vista. It doesn't even look remotely Aero, except the fact you can see through it. I like the new bar, unlike many. It seems Aqua keeps evolving from kiddie to mature, and this new menu bar is a big step at that.

Same goes for the new Dock, really. I'll take the 'icons sitting on a glass plate'-approach any day.

shadowfax
Jul 26, 2007, 08:37 AM
You can do that now in Disk Utility. You just have to format your drive as Case Sensitive. Leopard is no different.

Don't format as case-sensitive. Many apps don't support it. Adobe is the one that sticks out in my mind. their programs refer to libraries inside their own application with different cases. This is fine in regular HFS, but it breaks when you make it case-sensitive, and it took me awhile to figure this out when I did it. then you have to totally reformat... fun.

Mr.damien
Jul 26, 2007, 09:19 AM
Start a new thread in the Marketplace, then, because OS X's been copying from Vista almost as much as Vista has been copying from it.

Does anyone know if LEAP works right in this build? My iPhone not working with LEAP is bad enough.
Ok, give us facts. Personnaly I don't see anything taken from Vista in Leopard. And don't tell me transparency, it exists on Mac OS X since 2001 ...

What's next ? That Apple copied Sun for the dock ?

AidenShaw
Jul 26, 2007, 09:43 AM
And don't tell me transparency, it exists on Mac OS X since 2001 ...

Which means that Apple copied it from Windows 2000 ;)

Rivet
Jul 26, 2007, 11:49 AM
The things I'm hoping for is more iPhone interaction (remote control, wireless syncing) and that they didn't remove the iChat feature to share screens and control others computers. I would dearly love that cause a few of my friends ask me to troubleshoot their computers and I hate having to be super descriptive for them to get it, i can just manually do it for them through iChat and not have to mess with more complex VNC programs.

In the meantime you can make your VNC a little more pleasant by using Schnitz. (http://www.schnitz.com/remote.html). Its a small app that calls you, instead of you calling your friend/client. All you need is 'Chicken of the VNC set to listen.

ThomasShaped
Jul 26, 2007, 12:11 PM
Fukui-
Are you free to comment on Spotlight in Leopard?
Is it working any better than in 10.4? I don't mean boolean searches with and/or...
I mean is it finding new files/emails without difficulty? Lots of problems with Spotlight in 10.4.

It's snappier :D

No pausing between characters typed and no problems i've found..
Only the menu bar icon doesn't turn white when clicked unlike everything else.

Welly
Jul 26, 2007, 05:34 PM
I quite like Vista's UI, I wonder if you've even used Vista?

Yes.. yes I have. And I think it's ugly, cluttered, unintuitive and completely without style or consistency

CJD2112
Jul 26, 2007, 05:58 PM
Start a new thread in the Marketplace, then, because OS X's been copying from Vista almost as much as Vista has been copying from it.

Does anyone know if LEAP works right in this build? My iPhone not working with LEAP is bad enough.

Um, not quite. Watch David Pogue's video review on Vista:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM

Vista: copied Exposť, Spotlight, UI, etc, etc, etc, besides the fact that Windows Vista is like someone buying a $2,000 used Ford and installing a $10,000 stereo unit. It doesn't add up...

metallicaisgood
Jul 26, 2007, 07:25 PM
Um, not quite. Watch David Pogue's video review on Vista:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM

Vista: copied Exposť, Spotlight, UI, etc, etc, etc, besides the fact that Windows Vista is like someone buying a $2,000 used Ford and installing a $10,000 stereo unit. It doesn't add up...
I forgot Apple invented searching and see through glass.

mdriftmeyer
Jul 26, 2007, 10:15 PM
Which means that Apple copied it from Windows 2000 ;)

We had transparency, internally at NeXT, running on Openstep 4. We just never released it. In fact, there were several fixes to the Window Server and more that later moved into OS X that was never released at NeXT.

tuartboy
Jul 27, 2007, 12:14 AM
We had transparency, internally at NeXT, running on Openstep 4. We just never released it. In fact, there were several fixes to the Window Server and more that later moved into OS X that was never released at NeXT.

Ok, is this like "We" as in "We mac users"?

Or is it "We" as in "We guys who actually built the NeXT OS"?

solvs
Jul 27, 2007, 02:17 AM
I'm trying to install it, but it keeps getting hung up. Won't let me upgrade, and even the archive and install just gives me endless loops. Trying an erase and install on another drive, we'll see what happens. Maybe I have a bad disk, or a bad download.

Should have just Netrestored the .dmg.

Sbrocket
Jul 27, 2007, 02:44 AM
I'm trying to install it, but it keeps getting hung up. Won't let me upgrade, and even the archive and install just gives me endless loops. Trying an erase and install on another drive, we'll see what happens. Maybe I have a bad disk, or a bad download.

Should have just Netrestored the .dmg.

You can't upgrade because it would be trying to upgrade 10.5.0 to 10.5.0...there's nothing to upgrade! Unfortunately for developers, the installer goes by version not build number. It would mean a lot more work to make the installer work for build upgrade installations for minimal gain

In any case, it installed for me just fine. Now the Geforce 8M series driver that's included in 9A499 is craptastic (crashes with something as simple as opening up Time Machine's interface), but it does install.

Alloye
Jul 27, 2007, 09:59 AM
In any case, it installed for me just fine. Now the Geforce 8M series driver that's included in 9A499 is craptastic (crashes with something as simple as opening up Time Machine's interface), but it does install.

Same here. I had no problem installing this build on my SR MBP, but I went back to 9A466 last night because the new 8600 drivers are beyond terrible. I had at least three hard crashes in the first hour. Not to mention the sluggish animations, slow scrolling, and inability to apply a ColorSync profile.

Oh well. The seed note did hint at some of this. I just hope Apple sorts it out quickly so I can keep my Leopard project as up-to-date as possible.

Mr.damien
Jul 27, 2007, 12:24 PM
Which means that Apple copied it from Windows 2000 ;)

Which transparency there is in windows 2000 ? :rolleyes:

Or perhaps it's soo much transparent that nobody saw it...

Project
Jul 27, 2007, 01:39 PM
Something that im glad was copied from Windows:

A proper breadcrumb bar.

http://thinksecret.com/archives/leopard9a499-1/path_bar2.jpg

Hehe
http://thinksecret.com/archives/leopard9a499-1/new_dock.jpg

/dev/toaster
Jul 27, 2007, 02:12 PM
I would be using Leopard full time ... if it wasn't for the fact that Data Guardian doesn't work with it. DG is an application for storing passwords, we use it very heavily at work and its critical for me.

Outside of that, Leopard is really really nice and I can't wait for full release.

solvs
Jul 28, 2007, 04:10 AM
You can't upgrade because it would be trying to upgrade 10.5.0 to 10.5.0...there's nothing to upgrade! Unfortunately for developers, the installer goes by version not build number. It would mean a lot more work to make the installer work for build upgrade installations for minimal gain
I usually do full installs to a blank drive, or upgrades from the previous version. That's what I did with 9A466. Just did a CCC of my Tiger disk and upgraded from it. Figured it would at least let me do an archive and install, seemed to work at first, but wouldn't finish booting. Wound up doing an erase and install, then using the Migration Assistant from my main drive. Got it working fairly well actually. No need to go into detail, but I haven't had as many issues as others. Guess it actually worked out better for me.

Of course, now that I've said that...

jcpearce2005
Aug 3, 2007, 11:11 AM
CS3 would crap out quickly on 9a466. Anyone have any of these app's running on 9a499?

Also, a newbie question, but can I install 9a499 on an external drive leaving my internal alone, and then boot from it. Last time I played with 9a466 I had to revert back to Tiger after running into too few of my apps I need being compatible.

Dig

dejo
Aug 3, 2007, 11:13 AM
Also, a newbie question, but can I install 9a499 on an external drive leaving my internal alone, and then boot from it.
Yes. That's how I'm doing it.

iJawn108
Aug 3, 2007, 11:15 AM
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6607/picture1yo9.png

jcpearce2005
Aug 5, 2007, 12:55 PM
Yes. That's how I'm doing it.

Can one run both Leopard and Tiger off different partitions on the same server?

I was thinking of dynamically partitioning my internal drive with bootcamp and then installing Leopard on the new (second) partition.

BTW for those interested I found the latest build of CS3 does work on Leopard.

Thanks

psychofreak
Aug 8, 2007, 11:10 AM
Does Menufela work with the transparent Menubar? I now can't live without the screenspace and cleanliness...