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MacRumors
Jul 26, 2007, 01:58 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/07/25/apple-3q-earnings-markets-equity-cx_bc_0725markets38.html) explores some hints that Apple gave yesterday on upcoming products in the current quarter.

Apple's projected relatively weaker earnings for the current quarter, citing higher component costs, back-to-school discounts and a "product transition" will cause Apple earnings to come in lower than expected.

Could that mean Apple is about to introduce some new products? If so, the possibilities include anything from a new version of the iPod music player to fresh versions of its hot-selling notebook computers. With Apple reporting surging sales of both its computers and music players, that would mean the company is about to go from one strength to another.

Apple's current quarter ends at the end of September 2007. Apple has been rumored to be releasing new iMacs and iPods in August. What's unclear is why Apple expects this product transition to decrease earnings rather than increase earnings.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/26/apples-upcoming-product-transition/)



kskill
Jul 26, 2007, 02:00 PM
that's a pretty sweet spin on bad news

thejadedmonkey
Jul 26, 2007, 02:00 PM
that's a pretty sweet spin on bad news

Or a pretty bad spin on sweet news, depending on how you look at it ;)

cruzrojas
Jul 26, 2007, 02:04 PM
could that mean that people are waiting for a product transition, ipods and desktops are all overdue, and apple doesn't plan to do any on this quarter? I guess is the iPhone fault.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 26, 2007, 02:04 PM
Apple's current quarter ends at the end of September 2007. Apple has been rumored to be releasing new iMacs and iPods in August. What's unclear is why Apple expects this product transition to decrease earnings rather than increase earnings.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/26/apples-upcoming-product-transition/)
it decreases its earnings because discounts and product turnover decrease your earnings on the balance sheet.

Peace
Jul 26, 2007, 02:06 PM
It's quit simple.

Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.

That along with potential component costs for new backlit LED iMacs will bring the total profits down.

Chisholm
Jul 26, 2007, 02:06 PM
The transition to new iMacs could easily be seen as a problem. If they introduce the new iMacs with a 6 week lead time, that would pretty much be 6 weeks of near zero sales. Its happened several times before.

jstoller
Jul 26, 2007, 02:09 PM
I would guess they're referring to the Leopard transition, scheduled to happen in October, which may cause people to put off buying a computer this quarter. That is how a product transition decreases earnings in the short term, though it will likely increase earnings in the following quarter.

Eric Lewis
Jul 26, 2007, 02:10 PM
this is good..everything needs to be updated...imacs,macminis,macpro,nanos,ipod,shuffles etc

swingerofbirch
Jul 26, 2007, 02:10 PM
I theorize different.


Transition sounds different than new models or upgrades.

I have wondered for some time, and more so with the rumored iPhone nano, whether the iPod line will eventually be phased out in favor of an entire iPhone line.

It doesn't make sense in the short run, but neither did shipping an iMac with only USB ports and no floppy disk drive.

iPOD has always connoted a small digital "pod" for holding things, like a pea pod. iPhone takes the idea of a small pod that holds things and adds communication. To me it seems inevitable that Apple will add communication to small devices moving forward. I think in some ways you could look at the iPhone as the next generation over iPod G5.5. And maybe the next product will be the next generatioon over iPod nano G2.0

But an iPhone shuffle? hehe...... In another thread I made a joke about apple coming out with an iphone shuffle that holds a thousand random phone numbers...the joke didnt go over well there...here? anything?


An interesting way of looking at the market that I just thought of while writing this, is that we have had communication devices for aw hile now (cell phones) which in recent years have been trying to add content (Vcast and all that crap)..Apple on the other hand has made content devices to which they are adding communication functionality. i think apple has a good standing in that way of looking at it, because computers were content devices long before they became communication devices. And the reason they were so useful as communication devices was because of all the content already on computers that was ripe for sharing as the WWW came of age.

whooleytoo
Jul 26, 2007, 02:11 PM
It's quit simple.

Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.


That would be excellent news - though it could significantly sour relations with MS?

Another possibility - it's the iPod -> iPhone transition?

IJ Reilly
Jul 26, 2007, 02:12 PM
It's quit simple.

Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.

That along with potential component costs for new backlit LED iMacs will bring the total profits down.

A nice theory, but I don't think I buy it. The iLife applications have always been included with new Macs but upgrades cost. Are you suggesting that all iLife upgrades from here on will be free for Leopard users?

psingh01
Jul 26, 2007, 02:13 PM
Transition means they will cut the Mac Pro model...yep that's it!

Squonk
Jul 26, 2007, 02:13 PM
Maybe the product transition is a code word for "fix the problems with the MBP screens and this is going to cost us money to do"? :)

shawnce
Jul 26, 2007, 02:14 PM
What bad news? They expect lower margins because they are going to refresh some products this quarter presumably using the latest chipsets, etc. which will cost them more then what they are currently using (thinking iMac and Mac Pro primarily here, I somewhat expect MacBook and Mac Mini to stay on the prior "generation" for differentiation and price point).

Of course Apple could be mixing up the product matrix more then I currently expect and expect some thrash in the short term as well as having to use new product cases, etc. that raise cost in the short term (lowering margins). I thinking about a possible Mini tower here.

cbetta
Jul 26, 2007, 02:15 PM
Uhh, isn't the lower profit not simple an issue of lower margins? If they replace a product with high margin (lets say iPod) with something with low margin (say iPhone-iPod) than they would for now drop in profit. In time, the parts of the new product will cost less which will increase there profit. Apple always tends to work like this.

smartalic34
Jul 26, 2007, 02:16 PM
I just don't think Apple will kill off the iPod name. it's too synonymous with mp3 player. no way does Apple get rid of it in favor of iPhone. that brand is popular too, but the company won't undo years of marketing and developing the brand for nothing... they're too smart for that

oscuh
Jul 26, 2007, 02:16 PM
Hello, Apple! A transition to a new iMac would be nice. We're waiting!

Soba
Jul 26, 2007, 02:16 PM
The transition to new iMacs could easily be seen as a problem. If they introduce the new iMacs with a 6 week lead time, that would pretty much be 6 weeks of near zero sales. Its happened several times before.

Exactly. Most notably with the introduction of the G5 iMac when they went for 3 months with no iMacs to sell at all and had to post an apology on their web site about their "less than perfect" planning. (The G5 chips were in short supply at the time, for those who don't remember.)

Another part of that transition was the air freight expenses they had to incur to ship the completed systems over to customers from Asia. People had been waiting so long for iMacs and there had to be so many shipped by air, it significantly hurt their earnings.

This "product transition" is most likely the iMacs. We've known for some time that a new model was coming, and it stands to reason that a new design is on its way; the current design is over 3 years old. I don't think there's anything to see here, though I am looking forward to new iMacs - or whatever it turns out to be!

ortuno2k
Jul 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
It's quit simple.

Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.

That along with potential component costs for new backlit LED iMacs will bring the total profits down.

I don't know where you are getting your news from, but where did you find out or read that iLife is going to be part of Leopard? You sound like you KNOW.
There hasn't been any official announcements from Apple, and I'm sure Jobs would have mentioned something about that in June.

BornAgainMac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
I wish they [Apple] could just post everything they know in here. The roadmap for the next 18 months. Just don't tell anyone. :)

Analog Kid
Jul 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.
Wow, we can only hope... Jobs had made comments about "everything's included" in the initial Leopard discussion, but didn't reiterate it at the WWDC in-depth preview. Rolling iLife in would certainly buck the current Apple trend of fragmenting their product line into lots of little products each a distinct revenue source.

The iPod family has been an example. Turning the bundled iWork into trial software on new Macs is another.

Maybe iLife has just matured to the point that development will be slowing so bundling it makes more sense.
I would guess they're referring to the Leopard transition, scheduled to happen in October, which may cause people to put off buying a computer this quarter. That is how a product transition decreases earnings in the short term, though it will likely increase earnings in the following quarter.
This was my guess when the story popped up on MacBytes.

Schtumple
Jul 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
Be nice if apple litterally all of its mac line up in one fell swoop, it'll never happen i know, but, in an alternate universe, where the iphone didn't put a near freeze on all mac R&D it could...

cube
Jul 26, 2007, 02:17 PM
Product Transition == Leopard

ravenvii
Jul 26, 2007, 02:18 PM
It's obvious!!!

They're going to transition back to PowerPC!

And the PowerBook G5 will finally come out!!!

fastbite
Jul 26, 2007, 02:18 PM
Yesterday was GOOD news, not bad. And no spin nedded. Apple will release new models of the lot, including iphone nano...:)

macFanDave
Jul 26, 2007, 02:19 PM
Apple has always "guided" low and looked great by blowing out the low expectations.

It's funny how people take Apple's modest guidance as a sign that hard times are a-comin'. But, those of us who have observed AAPL for a while (especially those of us with skin in the game), see the typical pattern playing out again.

teflon
Jul 26, 2007, 02:19 PM
I don't think Apple will transit the whole line of iPod to iPhone just yet. Maybe in few years time, but right now, iPod is a huge cash cow for them and has a bigger market than iPhone. It's a recognized name and a guaranteed source of profit. In the future, mp3 players will be replaced by cell phones and Apple has realized that, thus developing iPhone. Right now, the market is not mature enough, and the technology isn't there yet to completely replace iPod.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 02:19 PM
It's quit simple.

Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.

But that's not in the September quarter, it'd have no effect.

That along with potential component costs for new backlit LED iMacs will bring the total profits down.

Aye. Updating the iMac to new technology instead of year-old tech will cut into margins per unit, BUT they'll sell more units too.

The transition to new iMacs could easily be seen as a problem. If they introduce the new iMacs with a 6 week lead time, that would pretty much be 6 weeks of near zero sales. Its happened several times before.

But they don't announce new iMacs 6 weeks before release, they announce and release at the same time.

shawnce
Jul 26, 2007, 02:19 PM
Product Transition == Leopard That is one factor but that wouldn't affect margins which is something they also guided lower this quarter.

Eraserhead
Jul 26, 2007, 02:20 PM
I think the product Transition is killing the iMac and replacing it with an xMac which is risky so may reduce sales.

The reason they are doing this is that they are only selling 600k desktops, which probably equates to 200k Mac Pro's 300k iMacs and 100k Mac Mini's. Seeing as the iMac has 3 versions that's 100k each which probably isn't very profitable, especially as they all have different motherboards, they also have to use laptop parts which are more expensive.

The iPod will probably be updated in September/October for Christmas as it has in the last two years, so won't be available for much, if any, of the quarter. Especially as they are saying the iPhone is coming to Europe in October that'll probably happen at the same time as the new iPods are announced.

I doubt iLife will become part of Leopard as they make a lot of money selling it separately and MS's 'iLife' stuff in Vista is barely better than in XP so there's no competition.

makesense
Jul 26, 2007, 02:20 PM
the transition is from computer hardware centricity to consumer electronics. most news on bigtime mac sites, eg TU
AW, are about ipod and iphone, the turf of mega unit sales and muscle behind the stock takeoff

canadadude
Jul 26, 2007, 02:21 PM
Sales of Macs, not iPhones, drive Apple's good numbers
May Wong
Associated Press
Jul. 26, 2007 07:15 AM

SAN JOSE, Calif. - All eyes have recently been on the iPhone, Apple Inc.'s newest family member, but the company's fiscal third-quarter results showed the elder Macintosh computer was still flexing its muscles, helping to drive record profits that blew past Wall Street's expectations.

Apple shares surged $8.94, or 6.5 percent, to $146.20 in mid-morning trading Thursday after the computer and gadget maker reported that earnings grew 73 percent.

The company sold a record 1.76 million Macintosh computers during the quarter, up 33 percent from the year-ago period, far outpacing the industry's growth rate. Mac sales and services accounted for more than 60 percent of the quarter's revenue, the company said.





"Our Mac business has tremendous momentum and has grown faster than the industry for 11 consecutive quarters," Apple's chief financial officer Peter Oppenheimer said in a phone interview.

IPod music players remained a strong contributor as well, growing 21 percent in unit sales to 9.8 million.

The company also said it sold 270,000 iPhones in their first two days on the market - disappointing some who had loftier projections. The multimedia handset had little impact on the quarter's results, however, because the company plans to account for its sales as subscription revenue over two years.

"We're still at the early stage of the iPhone, but it looks like the other parts of Apple's business are still growing strong," said Caris & Co. analyst Shebly Seyrafi.

Jane Snorek, a senior analyst with Minneapolis-based First American Fund, said she thinks Apple could achieve 40 percent growth in Mac sales next year. She boosted her earnings estimates for the current fiscal year from $4.75 to $5.25 per share based on the robust Mac performance.

"The only thing that kept people from getting Macs before is that they thought it was expensive and you couldn't do some Windows programs on them," Snorek said. "But they've taken down all those barriers, and that's why you've seen it take off."

For the quarter ended June 30, Apple's profit rose to $818 million, or 92 cents per share, up from $472 million, or 54 cents a share, in the year-ago quarter.

Sales grew to $5.41 billion from $4.37 billion last year.

Analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected Apple to report earnings of 72 cents per share on sales of $5.28 billion, while Apple itself had projected earnings of 66 cents per share on quarterly sales of $5.1 billion.

"We're thrilled to report the highest June quarter revenue and profit in Apple's history, along with the highest quarterly Mac sales ever," said Steve Jobs, Apple's chief executive.

For the quarter ending in September, Apple issued what analysts predicted was a typically conservative outlook. The Cupertino-based company said it expects to earn about 65 cents per share on revenue of about $5.7 billion. Analysts were expecting earnings of 83 cents per share on sales of $6 billion.

The gadget maker's highly anticipated iPhone launched June 29 and sold out within days. Wall Street analysts and investors have had lofty expectations for the multimedia cell phone, driving up Apple's stock more than 30 percent during the quarter.

"IPhone is off to a great start," said Jobs, who added that Apple hopes to have sold 1 million iPhones by the end of the current quarter.

Apple officials reiterated the company's target of selling 10 million iPhones in 2008 but declined to elaborate on how much of a cut it will also be getting from exclusive service provider AT&T Inc. under their multiyear deal.

During the June quarter, revenue from iPhones and iPhone accessories totaled $5 million, Apple said. Shared revenue from AT&T was not included, it said.

Investors seemed uncertain at first with how to react to Apple's financial report.

"There was initially some disappointment in the 270,000 iPhone units, but as people realized the gross margins came in at 37 percent, they were very encouraged by the profitability of the company," Seyrafi said. "Clearly, Apple is a growth story."

im thinking why would they come out with a new one when this old one is still sellin?? i m gettin sick of waiting might just buy this older one

mahonmeister
Jul 26, 2007, 02:21 PM
Fresh versions of its hot-selling notebook computers? But they were just updated...

irun5k
Jul 26, 2007, 02:22 PM
I theorize different.
I have wondered for some time, and more so with the rumored iPhone nano, whether the iPod line will eventually be phased out in favor of an entire iPhone line.

It doesn't make sense in the short run, but neither did shipping an iMac with only USB ports and no floppy disk drive.


The difference is that a floppy drive doesn't come with a $60/80/100 a month or more requirement, where as an iPhone does. The two lines will never be combined.

ortuno2k
Jul 26, 2007, 02:22 PM
Wow, we can only hope... Jobs had made comments about "everything's included" in the initial Leopard discussion, but didn't reiterate it at the WWDC in-depth preview. Rolling iLife in would certainly buck the current Apple trend of fragmenting their product line into lots of little products each a distinct revenue source.

The iPod family has been an example. Turning the bundled iWork into trial software on new Macs is another.

Maybe iLife has just matured to the point that development will be slowing so bundling it makes more sense.

This was my guess when the story popped up on MacBytes.

Yeah that sort of makes sense to us that we know about Leopard.
But the average Joe walks into an Apple store and buys a Mac, period.
Not everyone is as educated as we are, not everyone knows that there's a new OS in the pipeline.
Enthusiasts know it mostly, end users I highly doubt they do - and if they do, they may not even care.
I know people still on Windows ME and Mac OS 10.1

iBunny
Jul 26, 2007, 02:23 PM
It's obvious!!!

They're going to transition back to PowerPC!

And the PowerBook G5 will finally come out!!!


Ick. The G5's are painfully slow. And dont try to argue with me.

Smaller Cache
Less IPC
Ridiculously high memory latency

cube
Jul 26, 2007, 02:23 PM
That is one factor but that wouldn't affect margins which is something they also guided lower this quarter.

They also quote higher component costs in the article. There.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 26, 2007, 02:23 PM
Be nice if apple litterally all of its mac line up in one fell swoop, it'll never happen i know, but, in an alternate universe, where the iphone didn't put a near freeze on all mac R&D it could...

um the iphone didnt do anything to stunt the R&D of anything, they were using leopard as a front for the iPhone and tested leopard software on the iPhone, which is why the iPhone is a little more advanced than tiger, but less advanced than leopard. Don't worry, apple will be fine in the long run. Leopard and other products will be better because of the iPhone, not stunted.

wildmac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:25 PM
Transition means they will cut the Mac Pro model...yep that's it!

This sadly to say, fits with where the company is headed. All other development screeches to a halt for the iPhone?.. not good. I just bought a MacPro, but I would not be suprised that in 10 years there isn't a workstation Mac anymore.

wildmac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:27 PM
um the iphone didnt do anything to stunt the R&D of anything, they were using leopard as a front for the iPhone and tested leopard software on the iPhone, which is why the iPhone is a little more advanced than tiger, but less advanced than leopard. Don't worry, apple will be fine in the long run. Leopard and other products will be better because of the iPhone, not stunted.

No, the stevePhone didn't stunt R&D (that we know of), but it DID stunt development of Lepoard.

Do you REALLY want a cell-phone UI dictating your workstation OS?..

Eraserhead
Jul 26, 2007, 02:27 PM
This sadly to say, fits with where the company is headed. All other development screeches to a halt for the iPhone?.. not good. I just bought a MacPro, but I would not be suprised that in 10 years there isn't a workstation Mac anymore.

They aren't cutting the MacPro, it is essential for high margin sales to Creatives. If they kill the Mac Pro they are killing Final Cut/CS3 etc. etc. which is simply NOT going to happen.

IEatApples
Jul 26, 2007, 02:28 PM
But, doesn't Leopard come in this quarter? … or maybe that's just it? – Leopard doesn't come until late in the quarter, and thus they expect the Mac sales to go down until it comes?

P.S.: The new iMac should be able to be used as a screen for Xbox 360 etc. If it does, I'm sure to buy (even if I do have the latest one right now) ;)

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 26, 2007, 02:29 PM
This sadly to say, fits with where the company is headed. All other development screeches to a halt for the iPhone?.. not good. I just bought a MacPro, but I would not be suprised that in 10 years there isn't a workstation Mac anymore.

that day will be a very very sad day.... i love mac pro

wildmac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:31 PM
They aren't cutting the MacPro, it is essential for high margin sales to Creatives. If they kill the Mac Pro they are killing Final Cut/CS3 etc. etc. which is simply NOT going to happen.

True, they won't cut it.. yet. But, looking at the 10 year picture, I can see an Apple the is strictly a consumer device vendor. But, we're likely not going to see a MacPro update until 08, even though it's long overdue.

Ghibli
Jul 26, 2007, 02:32 PM
It's obvious!!!

They're going to transition back to PowerPC!

And the PowerBook G5 will finally come out!!!

YES! Powerbook G5 Next Tuesday!

:):):):):):):):):):)

wildmac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:32 PM
that day will be a very very sad day.... i love mac pro

Yep, but when I went to the last MacWorld keynote, and heard NOTHING for the pro market, that really signaled a change for where they are headed.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 02:33 PM
But, doesn't Leopard come in this quarter? … or maybe that's just it? – Leopard doesn't come until late in the quarter, and thus they expect the Mac sales to go down until it comes?

Leopard doesn't come this quarter at all, it comes next quarter. Unless Apple has something up their sleeves....

Thataboy
Jul 26, 2007, 02:34 PM
I can definitely see Apple doing something like rolling iLife and .mac into Leopard and charging more for the OS, like $149 or $169. I don't really buy that iLife has something so Leopard-unique that it couldn't have been released by now. And Jobs has basically said "we know .mac is going nowhere, be patient and you'll like what's coming."

But as someone above mentioned, Leopard is not getting released in this quarter, so if we take the call comments at face value, "product transitions" does not refer to this.

I think it most likely refers to the 6G iPod. The reason it will "disappoint" is because it won't be the phoneless iPhone that so many people are aching for. That might come NEXT year. The 6G iPod will just be a tiny evolutionary advance, shrinking the case size and changing some UI elements (maybe going all flash for a 16 or 32 GB size, and retaining a huge 80 or 100 GB hard drive model). People will bitch about the 6G iPod because it is not wifi or touchscreen of have OS X.

It could also refer to the updated iMac, though I don't see why that would be a negative transition (not that the 6G iPod is negative, it's just not what a lot of people are looking for). I bet an updated iMac would sell very well actually.

williedigital
Jul 26, 2007, 02:34 PM
I theorize different.

I have wondered for some time, and more so with the rumored iPhone nano, whether the iPod line will eventually be phased out in favor of an entire iPhone line.



If they were going to do that, they would have called it the "macphone", as they would love to transition all their products to mac____ and they would def want to do that with the first model of their "game changing" cellie

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 02:34 PM
Be nice if apple litterally all of its mac line up in one fell swoop, it'll never happen i know, but, in an alternate universe, where the iphone didn't put a near freeze on all mac R&D it could...

All of the Mac lineup but the laptops. Those are fine for now.

wildmac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:34 PM
Leopard doesn't come this quarter at all, it comes next quarter. Unless Apple has something up their sleeves....

That might be the transition loss, since there are fence-sitters that are waiting...

Queso
Jul 26, 2007, 02:35 PM
A nice theory, but I don't think I buy it. The iLife applications have always been included with new Macs but upgrades cost. Are you suggesting that all iLife upgrades from here on will be free for Leopard users?
That hasn't always been the case though. iMovie and iPhoto both started out as free downloads like iTunes. It's possible they could go back that way to combat Vista's bundling of similar (in purpose) apps.

surferfromuk
Jul 26, 2007, 02:35 PM
The New iMac and the new Macbook pro will share a single unified motherboard and chipset leaving the iMac only 1" thick.
There will be a 20, 24 and 30" LED widescreen.
It will, obviously, be optical glass with a chrome bezel having a design sympathy with the iPhone.

The MacPro will continue relatively unchanged.

Touchwheel Ipods will remain but re-housed in black and chrome but complemented by a iphone-esque Video Ipod.
Iphone Nano will be released.

esaleris
Jul 26, 2007, 02:36 PM
To me, product transition implies one of the following:

introducing a product completely new and innovative.
introducing a product in a line that completely replaces another.
altering a product in a line significantly in a way that has consumers change their behavior.

A couple of examples of each:

New and innovative
A true entertainment-center appliance based on the iTunes model.
A Mac-based appliance, like Microsoft's new "Surface."
Replacing a line
A slim-laptop offering replacing the old 12" PowerBook.
Augmentation of the Apple TV and discontinuation of the Mac mini.
Altering a Product
Shifting CPU production from Intel to AMD, or providing options between the two.
Completely moving iPods to a widescreen touch-screen format.

DanB91
Jul 26, 2007, 02:38 PM
mac os x to mac os xi??

bigjohn
Jul 26, 2007, 02:38 PM
If they're really that concerned about the iMac, they should stop making the line. It's a closed-system that doesn't provide much value (quicker obsolescence). They should focus more on the mini and Pro platforms and lower the price on monitors.

Le Big Mac
Jul 26, 2007, 02:39 PM
The transition to new iMacs could easily be seen as a problem. If they introduce the new iMacs with a 6 week lead time, that would pretty much be 6 weeks of near zero sales. Its happened several times before.

Yeah, that's some bad news . . . question is why they'd announce early. Obviously knowledgeable people aren't buying iMacs, but if they announce them soon but don't deliver until Sept/Oct., then even unknowldedgeable people won't buy them.

DVNIEL
Jul 26, 2007, 02:41 PM
Oh please I hope to God they transition to household products now..

MacBook Pro in my bag. iMac on my desk. iPhone in my pocket

iMacrowave heating my iMac & Cheese. iMacuum cleaning my house. While sleeping on my iPhoam-mattress....

Ahhh what a life that would be

Peace
Jul 26, 2007, 02:41 PM
A nice theory, but I don't think I buy it. The iLife applications have always been included with new Macs but upgrades cost. Are you suggesting that all iLife upgrades from here on will be free for Leopard users?


What I'm saying is there will be no iLife per se.It will be integrated into Leopard.Not a separate app.Built in.Sort of like ( I hate to use this analogy ) Windows picture viewer.Or Windows movie maker.

Lets call it Leopard Media Viewer.Includes music,video,pictures,movies,and TV.

And remember QT is going full screen in Leopard.The Pro version is only for recording movies and exporting.

This in itself will cause a small downward spike in revenues due to fewer people buying QT Pro.

I'm also predicting iMacs with built-in TV ports for watching Television. Probably only in the 30" model.


Of course I could just be full of it too :)

IEatApples
Jul 26, 2007, 02:42 PM
Leopard doesn't come this quarter at all, it comes next quarter. Unless Apple has something up their sleeves....
Okay, but:

That might be the transition loss, since there are fence-sitters that are waiting...

This is what I'm thinking…

Eidorian
Jul 26, 2007, 02:48 PM
Apple Computer, Inc.

Remember? Even if it's not there anymore...

BigSky20
Jul 26, 2007, 02:48 PM
My belief for the reasons of lower earnings this quarter for "Product Transition" relates to the release of the new iMac. If they plan on selling the new iMacs at similar prices to the current iMacs, then earnings will be less because of increased costs due to newer technology components.

For example, if the iMac comes with better graphics card options, faster hard drive options, blu-ray drive options, 16x Superdrives (instead of the 8x), etc, the price for these components will be higher with the price remaining the same. Thus, creating lower earnings.

I strongly belief that Apple was going to realease the new iMac at the June conference, but decided to wait because of the strong sales last quarter. They had no motivation to upgrade the iMac's technology when they could sell the lower cost "older" technology with a higher profit margin. I also strongly belief that this is why they are waiting until August, so that they sell as much of the overpriced older technology to the new foot traffic in the retail stores due to the iphone.

I am looking forward to the release of the new macs to get today's technology at a similar price of today's outdated iMacs. I can't wait for August 7th. :)

vandlism
Jul 26, 2007, 02:50 PM
product transition equals decreased earnings because:
cost to apple of new ipod > current ipod. i think they are planning on having a significantly smaller profit margin. research has shown that the iphone costs about $280 for apple to make. drop a few things here or there and a new ipod could probably still cost apple close to $200 to manufacture. decreased profit margins on the ipod line that has fueled them for the past few years leads to decreased earnings.

Porchland
Jul 26, 2007, 02:54 PM
I would guess they're referring to the Leopard transition, scheduled to happen in October, which may cause people to put off buying a computer this quarter. That is how a product transition decreases earnings in the short term, though it will likely increase earnings in the following quarter.

I agree. The same thing happened with Tiger.

boss1
Jul 26, 2007, 02:56 PM
It seems like a new iMac is probable? 20 and 24 in. models only now? However unless it's a complete overhaul of the iMac I don't see this as affecting "Product transition" that much.


Imo, Kiss the MacMini goodbye and say hello to (insert new headless mac here)

It seems Apple has had trouble creating a new product category hit that sticks outside of Laptop, Laptop Pro, Desktop, Desktop Pro, ever since the Cube?

futureholds
Jul 26, 2007, 02:56 PM
The reason they are doing this is that they are only selling 600k desktops, which probably equates to 200k Mac Pro's 300k iMacs and 100k Mac Mini's. Seeing as the iMac has 3 versions that's 100k each which probably isn't very profitable, especially as they all have different motherboards, they also have to use laptop parts which are more expensive.


Apple sells about 1 Mac Mini for every 50 iMacs it sells.

danny_w
Jul 26, 2007, 02:57 PM
But they don't announce new iMacs 6 weeks before release, they announce and release at the same time.
But that is exactly what they have been doing of late. The original MBP was announced at least 6 weeks before they shipped, and PB sales fell flat.The iPhone was pre-announced (sort of) long before it was available, and may have cramped iPod sales. Leopard has been announced for October and is causing many potential customers to wait.

WhySoSerious
Jul 26, 2007, 03:00 PM
they should just give random Apple products away when you buy a Happy Meal at McDonalds.

i know when i was a little kid, i would beg my parents to take me to Mc D's just so i could get a new toy...i could care less about the food.

imagine all the little tikes (and adults) who would flock to Mc D's for a Happy Meal just to get a new, cool, random Apple product.

idk...just my thoughts.

gloss
Jul 26, 2007, 03:02 PM
What bad news? They expect lower margins because they are going to refresh some products this quarter presumably using the latest chipsets, etc. which will cost them more then what they are currently using (thinking iMac and Mac Pro primarily here, I somewhat expect MacBook and Mac Mini to stay on the prior "generation" for differentiation and price point).

Ding ding. I'd be willing to bet this is the reason.

The idea of lower margins because of more complex, cutting-edge devices and hardware falls nicely in line with AppleInsider's assertion that:

The move is believed to be part of a broader, all-out blitz on the consumer electronics sector this holiday shopping season, in which a staggering array of gadgets from the Cupertino-based firm is expected to leave would-be rivals confused and unable to react.

Don't you think?

Porchland
Jul 26, 2007, 03:03 PM
I'm also predicting iMacs with built-in TV ports for watching Television. Probably only in the 30" model.


What do you mean by "ports"? A coaxial connection? Absolutely not going to happen. Apple has a plan for TV -- and it does not involve a cable connection.

Apple has too much to gain from $1.99 downloads of TV shows -- and a possible subscription plan this fall -- to turn iMacs into DVRs.

If Apple made everything in the TV Shows section available for $29.99 a month and added live sports, award shows, etc., I would seriously consider getting an :apple:tv and dumping Comcast.

With or without a subscription plan, I think :apple:tv will gain the capability for direct purchase of TV and movie content before the end of this year.

AlexisV
Jul 26, 2007, 03:09 PM
If they're really that concerned about the iMac, they should stop making the line. It's a closed-system that doesn't provide much value (quicker obsolescence).


That's how companies make money - planned obsolescence!
Apple wouldn't make much money if Macs lasted customers 10 years!

ImageWrangler
Jul 26, 2007, 03:17 PM
Of course I could just be full of it too :)

That's what a lot of us are thinking. iLife bundled? Ain't gonna happen.

wildmac
Jul 26, 2007, 03:18 PM
Apple Computer, Inc.

Remember? Even if it's not there anymore...

Exactly, it's NOT there anymore...

inkswamp
Jul 26, 2007, 03:18 PM
YES! Powerbook G5 Next Tuesday!

:):):):):):):):):):)

That should be the MacRumors mantra: "There's always next Tuesday."

illegalprelude
Jul 26, 2007, 03:20 PM
To all those saying iLife07 will come into Leopard, that sounds good and all but what about the millions of people on Tiger? I dont think Apple is just going to screw them over and kill their own profit. It makes no sense.

Their also not going to offer different versions of Leopard, that was the big thing during WW07.
Steve Jobs was like we have a Premium Version for $129. A Business Version for $129. The Ultimate Version for $129. Their whole thing is, they dont want to be like Vista and have 18 different versions so that wont be happening either

Chisholm
Jul 26, 2007, 03:23 PM
But they don't announce new iMacs 6 weeks before release, they announce and release at the same time.

Sorry, no. Apple has announced many products that are not immediately available for shipment. This is a fact of history. Remember the iPhone was announced 6 months before it was available. The appleTV had a delay of weeks. The first G5s were late to market. The list goes on and on.

urbanskywalker
Jul 26, 2007, 03:24 PM
Sigh! Another rumor and another date slide, but still no imac. I have to go back to school in just over a month and I need a computer soon. The last thing I want is to be setting up a computer in the first month of classes.

shawnce
Jul 26, 2007, 03:24 PM
Exactly, it's NOT there anymore...

Yeah ... it isn't like the just had their best quarter for Mac unit volumes in history, or that Mac hardware still makes up over 60% of their revenue, ... nope they don't make personal computers any more and they obviously don't care about that segment.

sartinsauce
Jul 26, 2007, 03:28 PM
Yep, but when I went to the last MacWorld keynote, and heard NOTHING for the pro market, that really signaled a change for where they are headed.

Isn't MW a consumer convention? For Pro news/products try Photokina or NAB or NAMM...

shawnce
Jul 26, 2007, 03:32 PM
Isn't MW a consumer convention? For Pro news/products try Photokina or NAB or NAMM...

Yup... they announced a lot of software (e.g. FCS v2) for their traditional professional markets earlier this year at NAB followed by MacBook Pro. Folks appear to have selective memories.

Antares
Jul 26, 2007, 03:34 PM
Apple needs to update the iPod HiFi. It's been way, way too long since it first came out. I say, new iPod HiFi and new iMac are coming soon.

gusapple
Jul 26, 2007, 03:37 PM
This is just a theory that is contradicted by everything, but what if the new iPods were touch screen and still sold for the $300 price? It would be bad news for the iPhone? I know that this won't happen but it's just an idea.

Blue Velvet
Jul 26, 2007, 03:37 PM
Maybe it's not about hardware at all. Maybe, just maybe, it's about .Mac...

After all, there have been mutterings from Apple about how they recognise how much work needs to be done with it to make an attractive proposition. Maybe, given the industry-wide drive towards web applications and platforms we might see a big price cut or even a free service to all as a loss-leader, much as iTunes is.

;)

aswitcher
Jul 26, 2007, 03:41 PM
The New iMac and the new Macbook pro will share a single unified motherboard and chipset leaving the iMac only 1" thick.
There will be a 20, 24 and 30" LED widescreen.
It will, obviously, be optical glass with a chrome bezel having a design sympathy with the iPhone.

The MacPro will continue relatively unchanged.

Touchwheel Ipods will remain but re-housed in black and chrome but complemented by a iphone-esque Video Ipod.
Iphone Nano will be released.

Not a bad call but 30" is still too pricey I think, and do they even do LED ones?

IJ Reilly
Jul 26, 2007, 03:42 PM
That hasn't always been the case though. iMovie and iPhoto both started out as free downloads like iTunes. It's possible they could go back that way to combat Vista's bundling of similar (in purpose) apps.

IIRC, this was only for the 1.0 versions. Fact is, the iLife applications are already bundled. Will Microsoft do forever free upgrades of their bundled applications? Will they even update them significantly? I don't think we know yet.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 03:42 PM
The iPhone was pre-announced (sort of) long before it was available, and may have cramped iPod sales.

The iPhone didn't cramp sales! They said it didn't.

jchase1
Jul 26, 2007, 03:42 PM
I think Apple will introduce the wide screen iPod that will have the same form factor as the iPhone. There will be 3 versions, one an iPod, an iPod with camera, and the iPhone.

I also think the long awaited Mac tablet will appear but will not be the typical tablet. I think the user interface will more resemble that of the iPhone. Functionality will determine menus etc.

I think Apple will eventually transition to an interface for all products that will resemble what is now being used on the iPhone. This will enhance all their product line for commercial use.

gusapple
Jul 26, 2007, 03:44 PM
Apple needs to update the iPod HiFi. It's been way, way too long since it first came out. I say, new iPod HiFi and new iMac are coming soon.

I agree, it has been a while since we have heard anything from the iPod HiFi, but more importantly the iMac. Almost a year with no update, WOW! That is strange for Apple.

dicklacara
Jul 26, 2007, 03:46 PM
I think Steve/Apple wants to do something that exploits MutliTouch.

MT, properly implemented, can change the way we (people) interface with a whole range of devices (computers, AV gear, appliances, vending machines, kiosks)... yea, the world.

If they have the patents and the two year lead over competitors, then the time to do it is ASAP.

They could "transition" to MT in several ways:

1) add MT capability to all displays as each product is refreshed: iMacs and New Apple Displays (would be the first candidates)

This would be MT Display input in addition to (not as a replacement for) keyboards, touchpads, graphic input tablets.

2) Rework the iLife, iWork apps and other OS X Apps (Safari, iTunes, Pro apps) to take advantage of (and create a need for) MT.

3) Introduce new devices that use MT:
--an ultraportable (palmtop) computer
--a universal remote control.
--a Home Security Appliance Monitor & control
--a light table
--input reader/scanner for images, documents (text recognition), handwriting, fingerprints, barcodes, etc.

4) Update iPods to use MT

5) Introduce MT replacements for standard input devices:
-- infinitely programmable (blank slate) keyboard
-- MT graphics tablet with pressure sensitivity & fine resolution
-- low-cost OEM touchpads for kiosks, vehicles (AV, GPS Navigation)

Can you visualize the time in the not-too-distant future when (almost) anything we want to interface is done thru MT....

--say an AV equalizer that is customized to however many parameters we want to control
--a piano keyboard that you can customize to fit the size of your hands.
--a gaming device with an infinite number of knobs/buttons etc. that are tailored to the game and the user
--an AV remote (maybe an iPhone) that allows you to surf, schedule, control watch/listen to any media available to you (private collection, iTMS, web)

There are so many uses for the MT technology... and anyone can and will use it (from 1 year old to a non-techie grandma)

MT can become the UUI (Universal User Interface).

However, and this is key...

I do not believe that only Apple can think of and satisfy all the potential uses of MT. Apple needs to find a way to package, implement and license the MT technology.

my 2.5 sense

IJ Reilly
Jul 26, 2007, 03:47 PM
Isn't MW a consumer convention? For Pro news/products try Photokina or NAB or NAMM...

It isn't really one thing or another. A while back, Apple let it be known that they'd be announcing new products when they were ready. The fact that no new "pro" products were announced last January is really just a coincidence. In the past, plenty have been introduced at MW.

Eraserhead
Jul 26, 2007, 03:48 PM
Maybe it's not about hardware at all. Maybe, just maybe, it's about .Mac...

Well Steve said at MacWorld that .Mac has 1 million subscribers so a cut of their revenue by $100 million/year is fairly significant, but that is only $25 million revenue/quarter which is tiny as they made $5 billion revenue last quarter.

Even if .Mac's revenue is virtually all profit the amount isn't particularly significant and doesn't explain the very low guidance. Killing the iMac is the only thing that would be sensible and explains the low guidance.

aswitcher
Jul 26, 2007, 03:48 PM
Maybe it's not about hardware at all. Maybe, just maybe, it's about .Mac...

After all, there have been mutterings from Apple about how they recognise how much work needs to be done with it to make an attractive proposition. Maybe, given the industry-wide drive towards web applications and platforms we might see a big price cut or even a free service to all as a loss-leader, much as iTunes is.

;)

Agreed. A .Mac major overhaul would be a really good idea and Steve has foreshadowed it.
> More space - 3GB
> Better syncing - maybe Leopard for that
> 5 true emails for single licences, much better family packages
> Sync with iPods for files in iDisk
> LAN syncing for machines local to each other - why go up and down when setting up
> ITMS shopping discounts/frequent buyer program

zedsdead
Jul 26, 2007, 03:49 PM
I think Steve/Apple wants to do something that exploits MutliTouch.

MT, properly implemented, can change the way we (people) interface with a whole range of devices (computers, AV gear, appliances, vending machines, kiosks)... yea, the world.

If they have the patents and the two year lead over competitors, then the time to do it is ASAP.

They could "transition" to MT in several ways:

1) add MT capability to all displays as each product is refreshed: iMacs and New Apple Displays (would be the first candidates)

This would be MT Display input in addition to (not as a replacement for) keyboards, touchpads, graphic input tablets.

2) Rework the iLife, iWork apps and other OS X Apps (Safari, iTunes, Pro apps) to take advantage of (and create a need for) MT.

3) Introduce new devices that use MT:
--an ultraportable (palmtop) computer
--a universal remote control.
--a Home Security Appliance Monitor & control
--a light table
--input reader/scanner for images, documents (text recognition), handwriting, fingerprints, barcodes, etc.

4) Update iPods to use MT

5) Introduce MT replacements for standard input devices:
-- infinitely programmable (blank slate) keyboard
-- MT graphics tablet with pressure sensitivity & fine resolution
-- low-cost OEM touchpads for kiosks, vehicles (AV, GPS Navigation)

Can you visualize the time in the not-too-distant future when (almost) anything we want to interface is done thru MT....

--say an AV equalizer that is customized to however many parameters we want to control
--a piano keyboard that you can customize to fit the size of your hands.
--a gaming device with an infinite number of knobs/buttons etc. that are tailored to the game and the user
--an AV remote (maybe an iPhone) that allows you to surf, schedule, control watch/listen to any media available to you (private collection, iTMS, web)

There are so many uses for the MT technology... and anyone can and will use it (from 1 year old to a non-techie grandma)

MT can become the UUI (Universal User Interface).

However, and this is key...

I do not believe that only Apple can think of and satisfy all the potential uses of MT. Apple needs to find a way to package, implement and license the MT technology.

my 2.5 sense

Jobs mentioned at the Interview with Bill Gates that technology advancements would be used in "Post PC Devices" more than PC's...because people were comfortable with the traditional setup. I think he was referring to the fact that MT is not coming to the Macs any time soon. I hope it does though...hopefully on the new iMac's!! But I seriously doubt it.

Blue Velvet
Jul 26, 2007, 03:53 PM
Well Steve said at MacWorld that .Mac has 1 million subscribers so a cut of their income by $100 million/year is fairly significant, but that is only $25 million revenue/quarter which is tiny as they made $5 billion revenue last quarter.


What if certain or new iLife apps were offered as web-based apps? Is .Mac potentially the place where a new platform can be developed with some integration with iTunes? Those big buildings that Apple were developing for alleged server farms. Hmmm?

Anyway, it's all conjecture. Just trying to see another angle because I don't think this is about touchscreens. Not yet, anyway.

age234
Jul 26, 2007, 03:54 PM
Agreed. A .Mac major overhaul would be a really good idea and Steve has foreshadowed it.
> More space - 3GB
> Better syncing - maybe Leopard for that
> 5 true emails for single licences, much better family packages
> Sync with iPods for files in iDisk
> LAN syncing for machines local to each other - why go up and down when setting up
> ITMS shopping discounts/frequent buyer program

That would be great, coupled with the GoToMyPC-like functions of Leopard.

dicklacara
Jul 26, 2007, 03:55 PM
I agree, it has been a while since we have heard anything from the iPod HiFi, but more importantly the iMac. Almost a year with no update, WOW! That is strange for Apple.

Interesting... You can slip the iPhone into the iPod HiFi and it works just fine (though you get a message that it is a non-supported device).

It sounds great... but google maps... not so goot!

Pleiades
Jul 26, 2007, 03:57 PM
I think Apple gave the tipoff themselves. They mentioned three reasons. Who said all three reasons aren't actually two or even one combined reason? Maybe the higher price of flash IS the transition? It's been written about that Apple's locked in lower flash prices with early long-term contracts? So why did it get mentioned as a reason why earnings would be lower if Apple's already guaranteed themselves cheaper flash?

I think the answer is that they're going to be using a LOT more flash memory than they are right now. My prediction is an all-flash iPod lineup. Put 32GB or 64GB in an iPod and I guarantee their margins are going to be a lot thinner, along with the iPods themselves. Those pictures of the 6G iPod that are disappointing everyone could just be the view from the front. Maybe the side view would show a video iPod with the thickness of a nano. Hard drives are comparatively cheap, so while Apple's paying lower flash costs than most, the replacement of hard drives with flash is going to be expensive cost-wise and would definitely qualify as a "transition" in product lines.

A new iMac would not be a transition since they still use all the same parts as any other Mac (i.e. MacBook Pro), just in a different form factor. Unless the new iMacs are going flash as well. Or they're going to incorporate the Robson turbo memory into the new Santa Rosa iMacs.

My bet's still on an all-flash iPod lineup.

gusapple
Jul 26, 2007, 03:58 PM
What if certain or new iLife apps were offered as web-based apps? Is .Mac potentially the place where a new platform can be developed with some integration with iTunes? Those big buildings that Apple were developing for alleged server farms. Hmmm?

Anyway, it's all conjecture. Just trying to see another angle because I don't think this is about touchscreens. Not yet, anyway.

Well that would be smart. (iPhone with iWeb so you can make websites on the go). That is something that Apple would be going for. But the server farms are nothing special for any person that knows that Apple has barely done anything to .mac for as long as it has existed.

johnee
Jul 26, 2007, 04:02 PM
itunes will become subscription based

Counter
Jul 26, 2007, 04:04 PM
It's obvious!!!

They're going to transition back to PowerPC!

And the PowerBook G5 will finally come out!!!

I think it's more obvious than that.

Apple is going to get out of the hardware business and make OSX for PC's.

Bengt77
Jul 26, 2007, 04:11 PM
That should be the MacRumors mantra: "There's always next Tuesday."
Excellent idea! Can we have an agree/don't agree poll on that, please? :p

dicklacara
Jul 26, 2007, 04:13 PM
Jobs mentioned at the Interview with Bill Gates that technology advancements would be used in "Post PC Devices" more than PC's...because people were comfortable with the traditional setup. I think he was referring to the fact that MT is not coming to the Macs any time soon. I hope it does though...hopefully on the new iMac's!! But I seriously doubt it.

Yeah, I remember that.

But the MT UI is addicting.

After an outing with the iPhone, I find vaguely uncomfortable/dissatisfied with the traditional mouse/keyboard interface...

Something's missing!

Why can't I just tap/squeeze/stroke/flick that page in iTunes/Aperture/FC/Pages/iPhoto/Google Maps/Safari/etc. on my Mac?

Control keys and mouse click/scroll are sooooo last century... like clothes that you've outgrown (or have gone out of style)... I just don't want to work (look) that way anymore.

KB/mouse is so... so... sooooo... polyester!

Mykbibby
Jul 26, 2007, 04:14 PM
Duh!!! Multi touch Macs! Cant anyone see that? The multitouch panels will be way more expensive, but Apple wont raise the cost! Also, possibly multitouch iPods!

GFLPraxis
Jul 26, 2007, 04:16 PM
Uhh, isn't the lower profit not simple an issue of lower margins? If they replace a product with high margin (lets say iPod) with something with low margin (say iPhone-iPod) than they would for now drop in profit. In time, the parts of the new product will cost less which will increase there profit. Apple always tends to work like this.


I've gotta agree. It's margins.

The current iMac has not been updated in 9 months; but the hardware used has dropped in price considerably. It probably has HUGE margins.

When Apple releases the new iMac, they're going to suddenly have much lower margins; add to that the current iMacs that will sit on shelves and have to be returned, and add to that the Leopard transition, and add to that the cost of deploying so many machines and increased R&D as Leopard nears completeness and the new machines come...

And add to that Apple's new accounting scheme...

I can see why they'd expect a short-term reduction in profits. Reduced profits does not mean a loss, just means making less money than they were making the month before.

Eidorian
Jul 26, 2007, 04:17 PM
That should be the MacRumors mantra: "There's always next Tuesday."I thought it was.

Superdrive
Jul 26, 2007, 04:20 PM
This sadly to say, fits with where the company is headed. All other development screeches to a halt for the iPhone?.. not good. I just bought a MacPro, but I would not be suprised that in 10 years there isn't a workstation Mac anymore.

You read the article and saw what was making them money right? It wasn't the iPhone...

TigerShark
Jul 26, 2007, 04:28 PM
But an iPhone shuffle? hehe...... In another thread I made a joke about apple coming out with an iphone shuffle that holds a thousand random phone numbers...the joke didnt go over well there...here? anything?

LMAO!!!

You've made my day with this. iPhone Shuffle! Good one! :)

twoodcc
Jul 26, 2007, 04:30 PM
wow, now i'm afraid to let my girlfriend buy a new macbook on tax-free day

Wild-Bill
Jul 26, 2007, 04:45 PM
Apple needs to transition its engineering team into offering something new for the Mac Pro.

354 days with no significant updates. The Mac Pro will be one year old on August 7th......two Tuesdays from now.

davidmyers
Jul 26, 2007, 04:46 PM
Hm. This story item makes me wonder what they could introduce that
would cut into the bottom line so badly as an upfront cost? The only guesses
I can make would be introduction of a lower margin iPhone, or a lowish margin
flash laptop(?????). Surely brushed metal iMac enclosures aren't going to set
them back much. Could iMac's with LED screens be the culprit? Sheesh. Either
way, I am also a little bummed that I basically HAVE to buy a mac on the
upcoming taxfree day, and it seems almost a sure bet that I'll fail to get
the benefit of whatever is around the corner, plus I expect not to be able to
get a cheap Leopard upgrade either. That's the way it goes.

Eraserhead
Jul 26, 2007, 04:48 PM
I think it's more obvious than that.

Apple is going to get out of the hardware business and make OSX for PC's.

They make their money off the hardware, they are highly profitable, and given their tiny market share more so than Microsoft.

What if certain or new iLife apps were offered as web-based apps? Is .Mac potentially the place where a new platform can be developed with some integration with iTunes? Those big buildings that Apple were developing for alleged server farms. Hmmm?

Could be I suppose, I really don't know...

Anyway, it's all conjecture. Just trying to see another angle because I don't think this is about touchscreens. Not yet, anyway.

Neither do I, developers would need to know beforehand, and it'd debute on a laptop. Personally I still think they're going to replace the iMac with the xMac, if the iMac was going Santa Rosa it would have done so already it hasn't been updated since last September...

Kashchei
Jul 26, 2007, 04:50 PM
What I'm saying is there will be no iLife per se.It will be integrated into Leopard.Not a separate app.Built in.Sort of like ( I hate to use this analogy ) Windows picture viewer.Or Windows movie maker.

I like this idea, but the first thing that crosses my mind is whether this would put Apple in the same hot water that MS was in bundling Windows Media Player.

zedsdead
Jul 26, 2007, 04:51 PM
I think Apple gave the tipoff themselves. They mentioned three reasons. Who said all three reasons aren't actually two or even one combined reason? Maybe the higher price of flash IS the transition? It's been written about that Apple's locked in lower flash prices with early long-term contracts? So why did it get mentioned as a reason why earnings would be lower if Apple's already guaranteed themselves cheaper flash?

I think the answer is that they're going to be using a LOT more flash memory than they are right now. My prediction is an all-flash iPod lineup. Put 32GB or 64GB in an iPod and I guarantee their margins are going to be a lot thinner, along with the iPods themselves. Those pictures of the 6G iPod that are disappointing everyone could just be the view from the front. Maybe the side view would show a video iPod with the thickness of a nano. Hard drives are comparatively cheap, so while Apple's paying lower flash costs than most, the replacement of hard drives with flash is going to be expensive cost-wise and would definitely qualify as a "transition" in product lines.

A new iMac would not be a transition since they still use all the same parts as any other Mac (i.e. MacBook Pro), just in a different form factor. Unless the new iMacs are going flash as well. Or they're going to incorporate the Robson turbo memory into the new Santa Rosa iMacs.

My bet's still on an all-flash iPod lineup.

Every time the iMac gets re-designed, there are brand new chip sets...I imagine that the cost of these components are going to be better Ram, more hard drive space (not flash, no way in the imac), MUCH better video cards and Quad core chips.

zedsdead
Jul 26, 2007, 04:53 PM
Apple needs to transition its engineering team into offering something new for the Mac Pro.

354 days with no significant updates. The Mac Pro will be one year old on August 7th......two Tuesdays from now.

This is even more ridiculous than the lack of an iMac update...I have also been very interested in a low end Mac Pro instead of a High End Imac, and have been waiting for them to have 2 gig of Ram as the stock along with a better graphics card...I can't see them re-designing it again, so why haven't the components been upgraded...it's been far too long.

Peace
Jul 26, 2007, 04:56 PM
I like this idea, but the first thing that crosses my mind is whether this would put Apple in the same hot water that MS was in bundling Windows Media Player.

That will never happen because OSX is no where near a monopoly.Besides Quicktime is "bundled" with Apple's O/S.

daveL
Jul 26, 2007, 04:56 PM
I don't think this has much to do with Leopard. A lot of Mac buyers won't even be aware of the pend OS revision, others who do will choose to wait for a couple updates before adoption and early adopters will be happy to pay the $129. I'm not saying the release of Leopard in October won't have *any* effect on Mac sales, but I don't think it will be material to the bottom line.

Also, OS X releases (10.x.0) have always included the current iLife suite.

Eraserhead
Jul 26, 2007, 05:07 PM
The other option is that this is all just to create buzz ;).

Wild-Bill
Jul 26, 2007, 05:12 PM
This is even more ridiculous than the lack of an iMac update...I have also been very interested in a low end Mac Pro instead of a High End Imac, and have been waiting for them to have 2 gig of Ram as the stock along with a better graphics card...I can't see them re-designing it again, so why haven't the components been upgraded...it's been far too long.

I agree. Apple has let many things slip in the wake of the iPhone. The iMac needs updating, Mac Mini???, the iPod needs an update, Leopard, iLife and iWork are delayed because of the iPhone, and the Mac Pro needs an update badly. I'm not about to drop 2500+ dollars on a machine with graphics cards that are a year an a half old. Paying 2006 prices for 2006 hardware halfway through 2007 does not appeal to me.

williedigital
Jul 26, 2007, 05:13 PM
If Apple made everything in the TV Shows section available for $29.99 a month and added live sports, award shows, etc., I would seriously consider getting an :apple:tv and dumping Comcast.


Except that Comcast would screw you on the cable internet when it's not attached to a cable tv plan. My internet only account with them is nearly $70 a month after taxes in the ATL.

zedsdead
Jul 26, 2007, 05:20 PM
I agree. Apple has let many things slip in the wake of the iPhone. The iMac needs updating, Mac Mini???, the iPod needs an update, Leopard, iLife and iWork are delayed because of the iPhone, and the Mac Pro needs an update badly. I'm not about to drop 2500+ dollars on a machine with graphics cards that are a year an a half old. Paying 2006 prices for 2006 hardware halfway through 2007 does not appeal to me.

I can understand Apple waiting on the iMac since it seems a lot is changing about it...the Mac Mini sounds like it is going away...and the iPods was not updated because of the iPhone. The Laptops have received updates steadily because there has been no major cosmetic change, so the Mac Pro should as well. NVIDIA and ATI released the Better cards months ago now, no reason to wait any longer (as said as it is, it seems the iMac update is coming first).

CalfCanuck
Jul 26, 2007, 05:26 PM
I agree. Apple has let many things slip in the wake of the iPhone. The iMac needs updating, Mac Mini???, the iPod needs an update, Leopard, iLife and iWork are delayed because of the iPhone, and the Mac Pro needs an update badly. I'm not about to drop 2500+ dollars on a machine with graphics cards that are a year an a half old. Paying 2006 prices for 2006 hardware halfway through 2007 does not appeal to me.

Ditto for me. They'll have a $4000 order from me as soon as they refresh this stale machine!

eazyway
Jul 26, 2007, 05:31 PM
Might be a costly .mac transition Large initial cost with low revenue

Chimaera.fr
Jul 26, 2007, 05:46 PM
Hi Everybody:

I think the "Product Transition" could fall into these 3 categories or be a mixed version of them:
1- Transition to a total green, environment safe, greenpeace-pleasable mac;
2- Transition to a HDD-less mac. Using memory card instead of Hard Disk;
3- Transition to a Keyless mac with a customizable graphical keyboard (iphone-like) instead of a fixed one.

ChadDimmack
Jul 26, 2007, 05:46 PM
Does apple realize R&D costs for new products when the product is released? IE record it on their financial statements that way.

Does switching equipment in a manufacturing plant over to making new computer cases etc. increase costs?

Does the over-head of maintaining support for another generation of old equipment raise costs for apple?

Is perhaps the next generation of iLife DEPENDANT on core animation?

Just my thoughts as I read through this.

King Crimson
Jul 26, 2007, 05:48 PM
Apple's projected relatively weaker earnings for the current quarter, citing higher component costs, back-to-school discounts and a "product transition" will cause Apple earnings to come in lower than expected.

An iMac with Multitouch would be so :apple: ... Applying it to all iMacs and Apple monitors "for free" would result in a massive market base for Multitouch applications ... Which could result in MacOS only Multitouch implementations of very interesting applications, is there anything compareable out now?

And - remember, Apple has a lot of system-freaks that have been involved in the making of the iPhone OS. Perhaps that's just a fake and they basicly transferred the Multitouch skills ...

Now, wouldn't that be an expensive transition? :D

Just an idea, don't expect it to come real :cool:

Anyway, another topic: they'll never drop the only really succesfull all-in-one-computer in the market, never ... That's what Apple was and will be known for.

And of course phones, walkmen, toasters and cleaning robots, hehe

MacinDoc
Jul 26, 2007, 05:55 PM
iMacs will have more expensive LED-backlit LCDs, more expensive motherboards and CPUs and GPUs, and more RAM/larger HDs than the current models. Add to that the fact that if the 17" iMac is dropped as rumored, the other models will have to drop in price. That could drop the iMac margin from (just guessing) 60% to 20%. Next, new HD-based iPods have more expensive, higher-capacity HDs but cost the same as the current models, again leading to lower profit. Then, with flash increasing in price, the margin on flash-based iPods also drops. Add to that the fact that Apple will have to sell off remaining stock of iMacs and iPods at a discount as the new models are introduced, and its profit takes a large hit. This is especially the case because 2 of Apple's best sellers will be updated this quarter.

pianojoe
Jul 26, 2007, 06:00 PM
Ditto for me. They'll have a $4000 order from me as soon as they refresh this stale machine!
Si Señor!

gehrbox
Jul 26, 2007, 06:00 PM
As has been mentioned in the iMac threads - the iMac name will die and the product will get the 'Mac' title, next to Mac pro, Mac Book Pro and Mac Book.

Touch screen iMac? Not likely. Head over to a Best Buy and try your hand at Solitaire on an HP IQ770. Aside from being hideous to look at it goes a long way in demonstrating the uselessness of touch screens on anything but Kiosks, hand held devices and tablet PC's

Chisholm
Jul 26, 2007, 06:08 PM
Yeah, I remember that.

But the MT UI is addicting.

After an outing with the iPhone, I find vaguely uncomfortable/dissatisfied with the traditional mouse/keyboard interface...

Something's missing!

Why can't I just tap/squeeze/stroke/flick that page in iTunes/Aperture/FC/Pages/iPhoto/Google Maps/Safari/etc. on my Mac?

Control keys and mouse click/scroll are sooooo last century... like clothes that you've outgrown (or have gone out of style)... I just don't want to work (look) that way anymore.

KB/mouse is so... so... sooooo... polyester!

I agree MT is addicting. I was looking at a mapping program yesturday (not Google maps) and I actually reached out and flicked the LCD screen of my computer. I felt so dumb when I realized what I had done.:rolleyes:

GFLPraxis
Jul 26, 2007, 06:09 PM
I like this idea, but the first thing that crosses my mind is whether this would put Apple in the same hot water that MS was in bundling Windows Media Player.

Windows Movie Maker = poor man's iMovie.
That new Photo app in Vista = poor man's iPhoto.

Microsoft has already bundled photo and video editing apps with their OS, why can't Apple? It's not with the intention of blocking out other applications (Microsoft got in hot water by bundling Internet Explorer and then threatening anyone who sold Netscape).

GFLPraxis
Jul 26, 2007, 06:11 PM
An iMac with Multitouch would be so :apple: ... Applying it to all iMacs and Apple monitors "for free" would result in a massive market base for Multitouch applications ... Which could result in MacOS only Multitouch implementations of very interesting applications, is there anything compareable out now?

And - remember, Apple has a lot of system-freaks that have been involved in the making of the iPhone OS. Perhaps that's just a fake and they basicly transferred the Multitouch skills ...

Now, wouldn't that be an expensive transition? :D

Just an idea, don't expect it to come real :cool:

Anyway, another topic: they'll never drop the only really succesfull all-in-one-computer in the market, never ... That's what Apple was and will be known for.

And of course phones, walkmen, toasters and cleaning robots, hehe

And interestingly...Leopard's Resolution-independent interface is perfect for a multitouch environment where you use your fingers to touch things, as buttons can be made larger without reduction in resolution.

Coincidence? (Probably)

King Crimson
Jul 26, 2007, 06:12 PM
Touch screen iMac? Not likely.

Yep ;)

Head over to a Best Buy and try your hand at Solitaire on an HP IQ770. Aside from being hideous to look at it goes a long way in demonstrating the uselessness of touch screens on anything but Kiosks, hand held devices and tablet PC's

It's not about total transition of MacOS to MultitTouchOS. It's an addition, there are heaps of interfacedesign-challenges that could be tackled the "Multitouch-way": education, visualisation, ...

But I'd hate the fingerprints on my display :(

Anyway, it's just brainstorming!!!!!!

Cheers

fawlty
Jul 26, 2007, 06:13 PM
I would guess they're referring to the Leopard transition, scheduled to happen in October, which may cause people to put off buying a computer this quarter. That is how a product transition decreases earnings in the short term, though it will likely increase earnings in the following quarter.

That makes sense - obviously Oppenheimer can't say "we're not going to sell many Macs this quarter because smart people will wait for Leopard".

King Crimson
Jul 26, 2007, 06:17 PM
"we're not going to sell many Macs this quarter because smart people will wait for Leopard".

Sounds like Dilberts boss :D

Chisholm
Jul 26, 2007, 06:23 PM
Except that Comcast would screw you on the cable internet when it's not attached to a cable tv plan. My internet only account with them is nearly $70 a month after taxes in the ATL.

Yeah, I was paying Comcast $60 a month for cable modem only. Then I figured I could get the basic cable from them for $8 a month to get rid of the $10 non TV subscriber SCREWING, PENALTY, (*&^%$$#, Now I pay $58 a month and get basic cable. But all my coax is conected to DirecTV.:p

smilanov74
Jul 26, 2007, 06:36 PM
I think that without a doubt the transition is having to do with what apple plans with the iPod. Look at the negative response to the supposed 6th gen version that is coming out in August! Wow, people are not too happy that it is not like an iPhone. So they forsee that while they make the (here it comes) transition from a conventional iPod to the more iPhone like one, they will see a possible decrease in iPod sales (or at least level sales). Really they can't make the iPod just like the iPhone just yet and they need a new ipod for the Holidays so what are they to do? Well make that one that people are not too happy with. So this transition they will go through with the next 2 gens of iPod are why they are predicting lower revenue than expected. Make sense? (note that I did not read the multitude of responses so this might be duplicate to what another has said)

Chimaera.fr
Jul 26, 2007, 06:40 PM
But I'd hate the fingerprints on my display :(

Cheers


What about an imac/macbook with a full keyboard but without keys?

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 06:59 PM
I think it's more obvious than that.

Apple is going to get out of the hardware business and make OSX for PC's.

"People who really care about software should make their own hardware."
- Paraphrase of SJ

AKA Apple is NEVER going to leave the hardware business.

RoDe
Jul 26, 2007, 07:04 PM
My guess is he means people holding off on buying stuff until Leopard is introduced. Because even if they introduce a new iMac it would still have the "old" operating system on it. A least that's what I think.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 07:06 PM
I've gotta agree. It's margins.

The current iMac has not been updated in 9 months; but the hardware used has dropped in price considerably. It probably has HUGE margins.

When Apple releases the new iMac, they're going to suddenly have much lower margins; add to that the current iMacs that will sit on shelves and have to be returned...

I agree about how upgraded iMac hardware will eat into margins, but there's hardly any iMacs on shelves left. Plus, instead of being returned, why not just have a clearance sale on them?

gehrbox
Jul 26, 2007, 07:08 PM
The problem with a touch screen (aside from the finger prints) is the ache in your arm if you spend any significant time using it.

Something I've not seen mentioned that could lend a multi-touch feature without the expense is a mouse with a touch sensative surface. No buttons, just a touch surface. Curved and integrated into the mouse surface.

You could duplicate much of the multi-touch features this way.



Yep ;)



It's not about total transition of MacOS to MultitTouchOS. It's an addition, there are heaps of interfacedesign-challenges that could be tackled the "Multitouch-way": education, visualisation, ...

But I'd hate the fingerprints on my display :(

Anyway, it's just brainstorming!!!!!!

Cheers

mathwhiz90601
Jul 26, 2007, 07:10 PM
...the Mac Mini sounds like it is going away...

No way it isn't. 50% of mac buyers last quarter were new to the macintosh platform. The mini targets this market; would apple drop some 25% or so of its buyers by dropping the mini?!? No way, I say!

Joshua53077
Jul 26, 2007, 07:17 PM
It's the Osbourne effect folks

Apple rarely unveils a hardware product that ships immediately. Therefore, if they unveil a new iMac, it will inevitably mean that
a) Inventory of existing iMacs will be allowed to dwindle down and
b) People will await the new model

My opinion? Apple is going to announce the ultra portable laptop that we've all been talking about. Why? Because for apple to expect it to impact their balance sheet, it would have to be something more substantial than a product revision. If, for example, an ultra portable is announced, it would most likely affect near term sales of both 15 inch Macbook Pros as well as Macbooks. Considering how laptops are driving sales of new macs right now, a reduction there will have a more dramatic affect than virtually any other part of the mac product line.

OR

Apple unveils a product a la the Apple TV but they heavily discount it up front in order to allow some type of subscription model in the long term.

Either way, it should be interesting

Nym
Jul 26, 2007, 07:20 PM
I theorize different.


Transition sounds different than new models or upgrades.

I have wondered for some time, and more so with the rumored iPhone nano, whether the iPod line will eventually be phased out in favor of an entire iPhone line.

It doesn't make sense in the short run, but neither did shipping an iMac with only USB ports and no floppy disk drive.

iPOD has always connoted a small digital "pod" for holding things, like a pea pod. iPhone takes the idea of a small pod that holds things and adds communication. To me it seems inevitable that Apple will add communication to small devices moving forward. I think in some ways you could look at the iPhone as the next generation over iPod G5.5. And maybe the next product will be the next generatioon over iPod nano G2.0

But an iPhone shuffle? hehe...... In another thread I made a joke about apple coming out with an iphone shuffle that holds a thousand random phone numbers...the joke didnt go over well there...here? anything?


An interesting way of looking at the market that I just thought of while writing this, is that we have had communication devices for aw hile now (cell phones) which in recent years have been trying to add content (Vcast and all that crap)..Apple on the other hand has made content devices to which they are adding communication functionality. i think apple has a good standing in that way of looking at it, because computers were content devices long before they became communication devices. And the reason they were so useful as communication devices was because of all the content already on computers that was ripe for sharing as the WWW came of age.

Just wanted to say that, you actually make sense :eek:

Really, I'm not being sarcastic! I'm not saying that there will be no 6G iPod in favor of a new all iPhone line, what I'm agreeing is about the difference you stated between Apple and the other cell phone companies, especially if you think that that difference could be the main reason why Apple may very well be ahead of all it's competitors in this sector in less than 5 years.

Stella
Jul 26, 2007, 07:25 PM
My prediction of product transition -

This is being blown out of all proportions. In reality, to us customers, it will be not very important.

However, I would love to see:

iLife + .Mac + iWorks as one product at $129.

( even as a part of OSX ).

.Mac is very poor value for money.

Cooknn
Jul 26, 2007, 07:39 PM
I'm in the touchscreen camp. Product Transition = iMac Touchscreen. It has to be much different than its current form factor though. I can't even imagine what would work - but I'm sure Ive (http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/ivephoto.html) has ;) I hope when Steve steps down someday Jonathan gets the keys to the kingdom.

shawnce
Jul 26, 2007, 07:41 PM
Apple rarely unveils a hardware product that ships immediately. Rarely? :confused:

Stella
Jul 26, 2007, 07:57 PM
Rarely? :confused:

Yep, he obviously has forgotten about:

-iPhone
-iTV
-Quad Mac Pro
-Every OSX release
-XServe


And a whole load of other products that Apple announced in advance of shipping. I'm sure someone can come up with a more complete list.

Delicious-Apple
Jul 26, 2007, 08:01 PM
I'm in the touchscreen camp. Product Transition = iMac Touchscreen. It has to be much different than its current form factor though. I can't even imagine what would work - but I'm sure Ive (http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/ivephoto.html) has ;) I hope when Steve steps down someday Jonathan gets the keys to the kingdom.

I completely agree. Ive gets my vote for the keys. He comes across as a very positive, likeable character. He also has the same mysterious streak and a 'bit' of a knack for innovative design and usability :) Hopefully Steve-o is getting him upto speed on the business side of things.

Bickity
Jul 26, 2007, 08:29 PM
tv stops being a hobby and start domination of movie industry.

Mac Mini goes away, tv has full line of products and starts rental movie service. That would make me buy one.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Jul 26, 2007, 08:41 PM
.Mac is very poor value for money.

oh crap! I think that might be it! Jobs said at All Things Digital that there was some things for .Mac in the works. So exciting things. That very well may be it! Remember that data center they bought a while back... hmmm......

BostonMJH
Jul 26, 2007, 08:43 PM
It's quit simple.

Apple has always had a category for iLife revenue..
This money stream is going to dry up because iLife will be integrated into Leopard.The price point for Leopard will remain at $129 however iLife will no longer be considered as separate revenue thus causing revenues to be lower.

That along with potential component costs for new backlit LED iMacs will bring the total profits down.

Apple will not integrate iLife into Leopard. iLife is a money maker but it cost to develope these updates and if it is integrared into Leopard it Apple will not recoup the cost of the developement. You add the cost of development of Leopard and apple margin would be greatly reduced.

jholzner
Jul 26, 2007, 09:30 PM
I don't think this has much to do with Leopard. A lot of Mac buyers won't even be aware of the pend OS revision, others who do will choose to wait for a couple updates before adoption and early adopters will be happy to pay the $129. I'm not saying the release of Leopard in October won't have *any* effect on Mac sales, but I don't think it will be material to the bottom line.

Also, OS X releases (10.x.0) have always included the current iLife suite.

No, they haven't. That is just not true. 10.4 didn't. No, iLife was NOT included with 10.4.

ryano144
Jul 26, 2007, 09:39 PM
oh crap! I think that might be it! Jobs said at All Things Digital that there was some things for .Mac in the works. So exciting things. That very well may be it! Remember that data center they bought a while back... hmmm......

I just read through most of the posts here and yours makes the most sense (provided that apple did buy a data center [link anyone?]). I would expect a media event in early August with new iMacs and the unveiling of the new .mac and iLife. Then the iPod would be announced in October or so (after the student promo ends... they always seem to do that).

With their new focus on Web 2.0, it would only make sense that Apple would offer their own really advanced webapp. Their website has recently been redone in some pretty nice AJAX.

pjarvi
Jul 26, 2007, 10:04 PM
They'll cancel the AppleTV and add a mini-DVI port to the Mini that will support an HDMI connection. I'm sure it's eating them up inside to have a product out that's affordable. Need to fix that right away and replace it with a more expensive option. ;)

GregA
Jul 26, 2007, 10:11 PM
they don't announce new iMacs 6 weeks before release, they announce and release at the same time.

Yeah, it'd be more like the iMac is announced with some amazing new hardware feature which is REALLY popular, and since people realise this new feature will be in MBPs in a few months they stop buying MBPs.

My mind is working at about 10% (gettting married on Sunday, stressed, and our minister just had a heart attack!)... so I'm not thinking well outside the box.

I still think it's touch screen.
If you like... click through your files using cover flow, access files via stacks... but I think this will be more useful in iLife. iPhoto zoom into shots (just pinch), change their order, rotate/straighten with fingers. iTunes coverflow access almost identical to iPhone. Screen saver like the AppleTV, except you can grab a photo, and pull it around, zoom in/out.

Like I said, I don't think that's enough... so anyone able to think way outside the square on this for hardware that when released on iMac would make people hold off buying a MBP?

MT, properly implemented, can change the way we (people) interface with a whole range of devices (computers, AV gear, appliances, vending machines, kiosks)... yea, the world.
<snip>
They could "transition" to MT in several ways:
1) add MT capability to all displays as each product is refreshed: iMacs and New Apple Displays (would be the first candidates)

This would be MT Display input in addition to (not as a replacement for) keyboards, touchpads, graphic input tablets.

2) Rework the iLife, iWork apps and other OS X Apps (Safari, iTunes, Pro apps) to take advantage of (and create a need for) MT.

3) Introduce new devices that use MT:
--an ultraportable (palmtop) computer
--a universal remote control.
--a Home Security Appliance Monitor & control
--a light table
--input reader/scanner for images, documents (text recognition), handwriting, fingerprints, barcodes, etc.

Okay... I AM a little slow today. Just saw this comment...
Yep.

GregA
Jul 26, 2007, 10:17 PM
2 other interesting responses I saw...
1) Apple dropping PC hardware altogether
2) Apple counting sales revenue for a new PC over 2 years (like they do for the iPhone)

I doubt #1 will happen - there's less reason than ever for that.

#2 is quite possible.

I wonder if they would even consider a subscription model for computers, in general. Pay a monthly fee for your computer, with .Mac built in & AppleCare, subscribed OS & iLife upgrades, and a guaranteed minimum monthly purchase/rental from iTunes

CBAviator
Jul 26, 2007, 10:28 PM
That might be the transition loss, since there are fence-sitters that are waiting...

I'm not sure there are so many "fence-sitters" that Apple expects it to decrease their numbers for the current quarter. I would assume it has to do with the turnover of new technology (such as an iMac redesign). Just as turnover is expensive as it relates to employees, it can also be expensive with new technology. Chances are, as soon as Apple releases a new iMac (for example) they won't have a zero stock of "old" iMac parts. There is certainly a cost when switching to new technology (production, education/training of employees, higher technology costs if the sales prices remain the same, discounted "old" iMacs, etc.). This is why I believe they mentioned a possibility of lower numbers with the transition.

Eric5h5
Jul 26, 2007, 11:09 PM
Also, OS X releases (10.x.0) have always never included the current iLife suite.

Fixed that for you. ;) The only time you ever get iLife for "free" is when you buy a Mac. Other than that, you pay for upgrades, period. It never comes with boxed OS upgrades.

--Eric

ClimbingTheLog
Jul 26, 2007, 11:35 PM
They aren't cutting the MacPro, it is essential for high margin sales to Creatives.

The just said they were going to have revenue issues, no?

If they kill the Mac Pro they are killing Final Cut/CS3 etc. etc. which is simply NOT going to happen.

I don't think they are, but if they had a new xMac with all the power of a Mac Pro, then what's the point? I have a new PC server on order that's got a motherboard smaller than the motherboard in a MacBook. Yeah, it's only a single dual-core machine, but a MacPro mobo doesn't have to be hugely bigger to go octocore, especially if they go 3D.

That might be the transition loss, since there are fence-sitters that are waiting...

Nah, throw a coupon in the box and reflect revenue *this* quarter. No-brainer.

Isn't MW a consumer convention? For Pro news/products try Photokina or NAB or NAMM...

Oh, not again. MacWorld is for all Mac users. NAB, Photokina, et. al. are for very specific niche media markets. WWDC isn't just for pro-users either - it's for the people who write apps that run on MacBooks and iMacs. (I was just doing the WWDC thing pre-emptively.)

My prediction is an all-flash iPod lineup....so while Apple's paying lower flash costs than most, the replacement of hard drives with flash is going to be expensive cost-wise and would definitely qualify as a "transition" in product lines.

Nice idea, but boy that much flash? 4GB of flash still runs $20 on the open market; $320 worth in an iPod. Even if they had a 50% discount, that's still hefty - there goes all their iPod margin. But, boy, sexy.

Unless the new iMacs are going flash as well. Or they're going to incorporate the Robson turbo memory into the new Santa Rosa iMacs.

Damn, I'd have to buy one of those too. Now, this I can see. I was really surprised to see it missed by the MBP refresh and the timing would be right to explain the long iMac refresh delay.

The theory that the transition is all about Flash is the best one I've seen here.

Apple is going to get out of the hardware business and make OSX for PC's.

It's much too soon for that. That has to wait until the PC world has gone 64-bit/non-legacy.

As has been mentioned in the iMac threads - the iMac name will die and the product will get the 'Mac' title, next to Mac pro, Mac Book Pro and Mac Book.

It's a shame, but Steve sure likes his symmetrical grids, doesn't he. Prepare for market confusion.

Mac Mini goes away, tv has full line of products and starts rental movie service. That would make me buy one.

Yeah, a C2D :apple:TV which could run MacOSX apps would be welcome.

The only time you ever get iLife for "free" is when you buy a Mac. Other than that, you pay for upgrades, period. It never comes with boxed OS upgrades.

Let's put an end to this debate: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301229

Joshua53077
Jul 27, 2007, 12:11 AM
Yep, he obviously has forgotten about:

-iPhone
-iTV
-Quad Mac Pro
-Every OSX release
-XServe


And a whole load of other products that Apple announced in advance of shipping. I'm sure someone can come up with a more complete list.

I'm not sure how saying that I'm forgetting about products that were announced and then shipped at a later date undermines my statement that Apple rarely ships hardware releases immediately. You prove my point.

headfake
Jul 27, 2007, 12:20 AM
i mentioned this earlier -- "major product transition" means a big shakeup in the PC/notebook lines (there's not really much to change in the ipod). since it's clear that leopard and therefore any big changes in the hardware offerings are probably going to miss the back-to-school surge next month, they're probably going to use that opportunity to deep-discount the current lines and push out the old inventory before bringing in the new models.

barcodebawtv
Jul 27, 2007, 12:24 AM
What do you mean by "ports"? A coaxial connection? Absolutely not going to happen. Apple has a plan for TV -- and it does not involve a cable connection.

Apple has too much to gain from $1.99 downloads of TV shows -- and a possible subscription plan this fall -- to turn iMacs into DVRs.

If Apple made everything in the TV Shows section available for $29.99 a month and added live sports, award shows, etc., I would seriously consider getting an :apple:tv and dumping Comcast.

With or without a subscription plan, I think :apple:tv will gain the capability for direct purchase of TV and movie content before the end of this year.
I completely agree with this. But the downfall of this is HD content. That's where comcast has a leg up on everyone! With comcast you can get HD content On Demand. :apple:TV has the power to display HD, but I'm not about to spend all day downloading an HD movie/ show. It's asking for a miracle, but I'd love to be able to do it. Until then I have no use for :apple:TV yet... unless they do merge it with the Mac Mini and maybe add Blu-Ray??

headfake
Jul 27, 2007, 12:25 AM
It's the Osbourne effect folks

Apple rarely unveils a hardware product that ships immediately. Therefore, if they unveil a new iMac, it will inevitably mean that
a) Inventory of existing iMacs will be allowed to dwindle down and
b) People will await the new model

My opinion? Apple is going to announce the ultra portable laptop that we've all been talking about. Why? Because for apple to expect it to impact their balance sheet, it would have to be something more substantial than a product revision. If, for example, an ultra portable is announced, it would most likely affect near term sales of both 15 inch Macbook Pros as well as Macbooks. Considering how laptops are driving sales of new macs right now, a reduction there will have a more dramatic affect than virtually any other part of the mac product line.

ding. we have a winner. the ultraportable potentially cannibalizes the MacBook line, so there needs to be a major rearrangement. the prevalence of MacBooks amongst college students means that back-to-school deals presents a golden opportunity. throw in the usual ipod and now iphone bundles for some lock-in, and you've got a sweet combo.

Goldenbear
Jul 27, 2007, 01:04 AM
...Steve Jobs was like we have a Premium Version for $129. A Business Version for $129. The Ultimate Version for $129. Their whole thing is, they dont want to be like Vista and have 18 different versions so that wont be happening either

Apple should actually ship 3 versions of Leopard (for the same price, of course)! Or have the box marked "Premium, Business, and Ultimate versions all included". A great way to have a bit of fun at MS's expense :D

As for this "transition", I think it's very simple. Completely new enclosure/form factor for the iMac. New chipsets and enclosures mean more startup costs for the models, thus lower margins. We could potentially also see new form factors for the Mac Mini and/or Mac Pro.

Or how about this. Leopard ships early, and SJ says something like "Since we're shipping an entirely new and revolutionary operating system, we felt it was only appropriate to have an entirely new lineup of computers to go along with it." New iMac, Mac Pro, Mac Mini, etc. OK, maybe not :p:p:p

mathwhiz90601
Jul 27, 2007, 01:15 AM
The problem with a touch screen (aside from the finger prints) is the ache in your arm if you spend any significant time using it.

Something I've not seen mentioned that could lend a multi-touch feature without the expense is a mouse with a touch sensative surface. No buttons, just a touch surface. Curved and integrated into the mouse surface.

You could duplicate much of the multi-touch features this way.

Hmm... perhaps the product transition is the mouse? Apple makes more than computers, iPods, iPhones, and AppleTV's, you know....

I say product transition is iMac + mini + MT Mouse.

Wild-Bill
Jul 27, 2007, 01:16 AM
Or how about this. Leopard ships early, and SJ says something like "Since we're shipping an entirely new and revolutionary operating system, we felt it was only appropriate to have an entirely new lineup of computers to go along with it." New iMac, Mac Pro, Mac Mini, etc. OK, maybe not :p:p:p

Uhhh..... No. That would mean the Mac Pro would go 14 months without an update. Unacceptable. :apple:

koobcamuk
Jul 27, 2007, 02:00 AM
Hello, Apple! A transition to a new iMac would be nice. We're waiting!

We most certainly are waiting!

It's great to see another TooL fan, by the way. I am seeing them again next month (London). :cool:

Evangelion
Jul 27, 2007, 02:46 AM
I would guess they're referring to the Leopard transition, scheduled to happen in October, which may cause people to put off buying a computer this quarter. That is how a product transition decreases earnings in the short term, though it will likely increase earnings in the following quarter.

I think you are wrong. Didn't Oppenheimer say that it's a "product-transition he can't really talk about at this moment"? If the transition was simply due to people waiting for Leopard, he would have said it. But he didn't. He said that it was due to unannounced product-transition that he can't discuss in detail.

jopie2yuni
Jul 27, 2007, 02:48 AM
iPod great!!

I always waiting the new products

SPUY767
Jul 27, 2007, 05:12 AM
The transition to new iMacs could easily be seen as a problem. If they introduce the new iMacs with a 6 week lead time, that would pretty much be 6 weeks of near zero sales. Its happened several times before.

You neglect to take into account the fact that since the Intel switch, all product introductions have been instantaneous. When the Quad XEON's weere announced, I bought one. It was on my doorstep in four days.

Chisholm
Jul 27, 2007, 08:09 AM
You neglect to take into account the fact that since the Intel switch, all product introductions have been instantaneous. When the Quad XEON's weere announced, I bought one. It was on my doorstep in four days.

And I'm happy they provided you with such excellent service. But look at wider history, not a simple benchmark of your happiness. Apple does some increadable *****, but getting product to users has had many problems in the past. OSX.5? G5 PowerBooks? Hello?

MacinDoc
Jul 27, 2007, 08:56 AM
And I'm happy they provided you with such excellent service. But look at wider history, not a simple benchmark of your happiness. Apple does some increadable *****, but getting product to users has had many problems in the past. OSX.5? G5 PowerBooks? Hello?
However, any revision of a current product, with the exception of high-end modifications, cannot be pre-announced, because it will kill all sales of the current model for the pre-announcement period. If Apple said today that a "totally re-designed iMac with larger, brighter screen, more RAM, larger HD, quad core processor, and twice the graphics performance" would be released in 2 months, would you buy the current model? Would anyone?

Chisholm
Jul 27, 2007, 09:11 AM
However, any revision of a current product, with the exception of high-end modifications, cannot be pre-announced, because it will kill all sales of the current model for the pre-announcement period. If Apple said today that a "totally re-designed iMac with larger, brighter screen, more RAM, larger HD, quad core processor, and twice the graphics performance" would be released in 2 months, would you buy the current model? Would anyone?

That is my point. You might just have to look back at my original post. I'm waiting for a new iMac myself.....

Counter
Jul 27, 2007, 10:05 AM
I can't believe people think a multi-touch iMac is gonna show up.

Not gonna happen.

Imagine using it for more than an hour please. Imagine the cost to benefit please. Imagine the pain in the ass of using it please.

Thankyou. :apple:

ClaphamChris
Jul 27, 2007, 10:08 AM
Good points here.

I'm leaning towards some very very aggressive pricing, probably on the iMacs, to really drive on the market share growth.

As many have said, better and more costly components would drive margins down, as would taking an aggressive price point. With iPods and (hopefully) iPhones getting more folk used to the Apple way of doing things, iTunes and Safari ported to Windows ditto, the biggest barrier to getting more people on board is price.

The Mini having reportedly had its day strengthens the argument for me. Rather than encouraging potential switchers to give it a go with a cheapish low end box only, maybe it's to turn the screw and drop iMac prices and margins to almost Dell-like levels to drive market share. And a substantive redesign is also a perfect time to rework the pricing matrix.

Could be fun...

superlatic
Jul 27, 2007, 10:14 AM
However, any revision of a current product, with the exception of high-end modifications, cannot be pre-announced, because it will kill all sales of the current model for the pre-announcement period. If Apple said today that a "totally re-designed iMac with larger, brighter screen, more RAM, larger HD, quad core processor, and twice the graphics performance" would be released in 2 months, would you buy the current model? Would anyone?

not only that but the core 2 duo's/ intel xeons do not suffer from the same shortages as the G5's.

At first i thought that new imacs were simply gonna be MPB specs with a bigger HDD, but am starting to think apple may have a surprise or two up their sleeves.

liberty4all
Jul 27, 2007, 11:22 AM
Well, for starters, Apple delayed 10.5, so many are putting off HW purchases for that release...

strangelogic
Jul 27, 2007, 06:20 PM
Something I've not seen mentioned that could lend a multi-touch feature without the expense is a mouse with a touch sensative surface. No buttons, just a touch surface. Curved and integrated into the mouse surface.

You could duplicate much of the multi-touch features this way.

Like maybe as described in this patent application?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=325610

I'm really hoping to see some multi-touch elsewhere soon, perhaps in the ultra-slim MBP 13" -- BUT - I think all of that won't ship until Leopard is available...

Also, if they are recording all of the iPhone costs as they incur them, and the revenue over 24 months... the more they sell the lower their margins. To the point it initially appears as a loss? No? I would have to go back and listen to that tedious conference call again, but I thought they were reporting iPhone REVENUE over 24-months - but they still have to pay to make them...

RedInAustin
Jul 27, 2007, 06:26 PM
Either
way, I am also a little bummed that I basically HAVE to buy a mac on the
upcoming taxfree day, and it seems almost a sure bet that I'll fail to get
the benefit of whatever is around the corner, plus I expect not to be able to
get a cheap Leopard upgrade either. That's the way it goes.

Here in Texas the savings in sales tax would be offset by the cost of the Leopard up-grade. Do the math for your sales tax rate and you might find that you can wait for the new machines and Leopard.

;)

Val-kyrie
Jul 27, 2007, 07:26 PM
the drop in margins --related to the iMac and later found in the MacPro-- is a Blu-Ray DVD writer!?!? They are expensive and would reduce Apple's margins on its hardware in the short-term. It also serves as a product transition --to High Definition. This could also be the beginning of other Hi-Def hardware leading up to and in to Leopard.

I've gotta agree. It's margins.

The current iMac has not been updated in 9 months; but the hardware used has dropped in price considerably. It probably has HUGE margins.

When Apple releases the new iMac, they're going to suddenly have much lower margins; add to that the current iMacs that will sit on shelves and have to be returned, and add to that the Leopard transition, and add to that the cost of deploying so many machines and increased R&D as Leopard nears completeness and the new machines come...

And add to that Apple's new accounting scheme...

I can see why they'd expect a short-term reduction in profits. Reduced profits does not mean a loss, just means making less money than they were making the month before.

zedsdead
Jul 27, 2007, 07:57 PM
the drop in margins --related to the iMac and later found in the MacPro-- is a Blu-Ray DVD writer!?!? They are expensive and would reduce Apple's margins on its hardware in the short-term. It also serves as a product transition --to High Definition. This could also be the beginning of other Hi-Def hardware leading up to and in to Leopard.

apple supports both blue-ray and hd DVD. I would imagine some sort of choice or combo player first.

(L)
Jul 27, 2007, 08:38 PM
Maybe iLife has just matured to the point that development will be slowing so bundling it makes more sense.

Maybe... but hasn't Quicktime Pro been kind of a pain in the butt as all those updates can't be had without new purchases? Bundling may or may not make sense, but Apple doesn't seem to keen on helping people out too much.

(L)
Jul 27, 2007, 08:40 PM
On second thought, if iLife and Leopard are very integrated, Apple may be facing the decision of selling them as separate but integrated products that make the most sense together, or selling an expensive bundle and potentially hurting sales, or do a crowd pleaser by bundling it for cheap and advertising it as more than ever (which will be true, of course)....

mathwhiz90601
Jul 28, 2007, 12:29 AM
Yeah, it'd be more like the iMac is announced with some amazing new hardware feature which is REALLY popular, and since people realise this new feature will be in MBPs in a few months they stop buying MBPs.

My mind is working at about 10% (gettting married on Sunday, stressed, and our minister just had a heart attack!)... so I'm not thinking well outside the box.

Congratulations. Hope your minister is better in time for the ceremony. :P



I still think it's touch screen.
If you like... click through your files using cover flow, access files via stacks... but I think this will be more useful in iLife. iPhoto zoom into shots (just pinch), change their order, rotate/straighten with fingers. iTunes coverflow access almost identical to iPhone. Screen saver like the AppleTV, except you can grab a photo, and pull it around, zoom in/out.

Like I said, I don't think that's enough... so anyone able to think way outside the square on this for hardware that when released on iMac would make people hold off buying a MBP?

I'm thinking multi-touch mouse myself, possibly also integrated into the trackpads of the laptops. As far as lowering MBP sales, I feel those who value portablility over power would get a laptop. Those who value power over portability would get a desktop. I'm in that second camp.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 28, 2007, 12:34 AM
Damn, I'd have to buy one of those too. Now, this I can see. I was really surprised to see it missed by the MBP refresh and the timing would be right to explain the long iMac refresh delay.

The theory that the transition is all about Flash is the best one I've seen here.

I'm thinking a hybrid that uses some flash as an intermediate cache to the HDD. Flash is faster than a hard disk, but smaller capacity, right? If so, new files can be written to the flash and accessed from it, and the hard disk itself can write at its own speed. Frequently read hard disk files can also be written to the flash for quicker access.

Kind of like a mix between virtual memory and a RAM disk.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 28, 2007, 12:36 AM
I completely agree with this. But the downfall of this is HD content. That's where comcast has a leg up on everyone! With comcast you can get HD content On Demand. :apple:TV has the power to display HD, but I'm not about to spend all day downloading an HD movie/ show. It's asking for a miracle, but I'd love to be able to do it. Until then I have no use for :apple:TV yet... unless they do merge it with the Mac Mini and maybe add Blu-Ray??

Yes, I fully believe new computers will have Blu-ray drives.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 28, 2007, 12:40 AM
And I'm happy they provided you with such excellent service. But look at wider history, not a simple benchmark of your happiness. Apple does some increadable *****, but getting product to users has had many problems in the past. OSX.5? G5 PowerBooks? Hello?

G5 powerbooks never came because G5 processors ran/run way too hot. They were always desktop processors; one reason Apple went Intel.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 28, 2007, 12:43 AM
Well, for starters, Apple delayed 10.5, so many are putting off HW purchases for that release...

With a record number of Mac sales? Either they don't know, don't care, or are tired of putting a computer purchase off for Leopard.

amonthofsundays
Jul 28, 2007, 04:53 AM
I think everyone is reading too much into this. "upcoming product transition" is just a blanket statement to support the fact that between people waiting to buy a mac for leopard now that October is a sure thing, significant updates to the imac and mac pro, there will be both less sales and lower margins.

Chisholm
Jul 28, 2007, 09:13 AM
G5 powerbooks never came because G5 processors ran/run way too hot. They were always desktop processors; one reason Apple went Intel.

Um, like, you know, duh. Check my join date. I actualy have lived through Apple's history. G5 PowerBook part of my post was a joke. There are probably more posts on this forum regarding G5 PBs than anything else combined.:p

mathwhiz90601
Jul 28, 2007, 11:29 AM
I actualy have lived through Apple's history.

Counter: My dad raised my sister and I on a Macintosh 128k.

DaBrain
Jul 28, 2007, 10:42 PM
Counter: My dad raised my sister and I on a Macintosh 128k.

Heheheh Check Mate! :D

mathwhiz90601
Jul 29, 2007, 01:05 AM
Heheheh Check Mate! :D

How about Touche` (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Svfzr2FlJQ)?

arpeggi.
Jul 29, 2007, 02:44 PM
I would say new iPod, new iMac and of course the transition of getting everything on Leopard.

thats it.

maccompaq
Jul 29, 2007, 05:30 PM
I would guess they're referring to the Leopard transition, scheduled to happen in October, which may cause people to put off buying a computer this quarter. That is how a product transition decreases earnings in the short term, though it will likely increase earnings in the following quarter.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I am waiting for Leopard before buying a new Mac. This will be Mac # 15 for me. I have kept every one of them. Same thing for my 7 Compaqs, the last being a 2.41 ghz Athlon 64.

macintel4me
Jul 29, 2007, 06:09 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head. I am waiting for Leopard before buying a new Mac. This will be Mac # 15 for me. I have kept every one of them. Same thing for my 7 Compaqs, the last being a 2.41 ghz Athlon 64.

Ohhh, they joys of being single. :p :D

Blue Velvet
Jul 29, 2007, 06:11 PM
What about this product transition? While we're throwing stoopid ideas out there...

1) Modify Mac Mini to media server or Apple TV line. Two Apple TVs in one line. Perhaps because Mini not selling well to edu markets...

2) Release new iMac, new case, new everything. Leopard, wonderful.

3) Release new eMac... for education line. In the current iMac form. No cost of retooling at all. Maybe change some of the ports.

I am a genius. :D

;)

mathwhiz90601
Jul 29, 2007, 09:32 PM
Perhaps because Mini not selling well to edu markets...

Who ever said the Mac mini isn't selling well other than for not being updated in over a year?

a456
Jul 30, 2007, 04:43 AM
Possible Transitions that would reduce revenue:

(1) From Universal Binary to Intel Only New Product Releases (no more revenue from PowerPC owners after Leopard) and Rosetta removed (Intel users no longer able to run PPC software).

(2) More products being ported to Windows - reducing the need to Switch in the short term but encouraging more switchers in the long term.

unimac
Jul 30, 2007, 04:45 AM
Think some of those transitions have arrived.

Apple store is down (2:44 A.M PST)

a456
Jul 30, 2007, 04:48 AM
Think some of those transitions have arrived.

Apple store is down (2:44 A.M PST)

US not UK - the transition is to only selling products in the USA then.:eek:

aswitcher
Jul 30, 2007, 05:21 AM
Suspicion is its just maintenance.

maccompaq
Jul 30, 2007, 08:19 AM
Ohhh, they joys of being single. :p :D

.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 30, 2007, 12:50 PM
Possible Transitions that would reduce revenue:

(1) From Universal Binary to Intel Only New Product Releases (no more revenue from PowerPC owners after Leopard) and Rosetta removed (Intel users no longer able to run PPC software).

They would NEVER pull Rosetta! Think about it: Last time they changed processors they included an emulator (the 68k emulator). They never removed it until Mac OS X because there was still 68k code in the OS. Makes me wonder whether Intel Tiger and Leopard still have some PPC code.

mathwhiz90601
Jul 30, 2007, 12:51 PM
Actually, I am married. I have computers all over the house, networked. But I live in my Florida house, and my wife lives in my other house up north.

I also have quite a collection of boats tied to my docks.

Ah, the joys of being rich! :D

neutrino23
Jul 30, 2007, 12:58 PM
There is a sign in the Apple Store in Burlingame, CA that they will be closed for a week for refurbishing in early August. They suggest using some other nearby stores during that week indicating that those stores will not be down the same week. Any other refurbishing going on?

darklyt
Jul 30, 2007, 09:03 PM
The whole thing could just be Apple being Apple, but what if there was a discount being offered to all those who just recently purchased a Mac? Given the large number of people who have recently purchased (based on their last quarter report) that could cost them a pretty penny. It would help provide them with a wider user-base for any 10.5.x only programs, specifically ones that emphasize 64-bit.

iPodThere4iAm
Jul 31, 2007, 05:39 PM
Okay, so I've been thinking (mostly wishful) about the word transition. Seems an odd word to use if it were just a run-of-the-mill product update, or if it referred to the wait before Leopard comes out.

Now, this set me off connecting the dots that we've been hearing about lately. What if the delay to Leopard and the distinct lack of revolutionery secret features unveiled at WWDC, the delay to iLife/iWork, the delay to the iMac (which is reportedly finished and awaiting an announcement), the lack of almost any major/enclosure updates to any of the other Macs, and mention of lower margins were all related.

What if all these announcements were delayed so the public could get their hands on and test out a technology at the core of the delays for a few months?

Perhaps the line that links all of this is the user interface - ie. multi-touch in some form (a mousemat size tablet to replace the mouse for example). It also fits with some of the changes to Leopard GUI - like CoverFlow, which is easy to flick, not so easy to scroll through with a mouse.

Now, I know I've taken 1+1 and ended up with 11, and I'm sure it's not realisticly possible within a reaonable price, but you never know. It would certainly be interesting!

Anyway, worth a post!

Kawasaki
Aug 1, 2007, 06:41 PM
I heard about the transition also.