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MacRumors
Aug 7, 2007, 06:48 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple introduced quite a few updates today, so we summarized them here to make sure you didn't miss any of them:

• iMacs (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/new-imacs-released/) - brushed metal, with thin keyboard, up to 2.8GHz Core 2 Extreme Processor. (unboxing (http://justkiddingproductions.com/New%20iMac.html))
• iLife '08 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/ilife-08-introduced/) - completely new iMovie and updated iApps (video tour (http://www.apple.com/ilife/guidedtour/))
• iWork '08 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/iwork-08-introduced/) - updated Keynote, Pages and new spreadsheet called Numbers. Downloadable demo (http://www.apple.com/iwork/trial/) available.
• .Mac (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/apple-updates-mac/) - personal domains, increased storage (10GB) and transfer limit (100GB), Web Gallery (example (http://gallery.mac.com/emily_parker))
• Mac mini (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/apple-quietly-updates-mac-minis/) - Core 2 Duo processors at 1.83GHz/2.0GHz.
• Airport Extreme (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/airport-extreme-updated-with-gigabit-ethernet/) - now with Gigabit ethernet.
• Mac Pro RAID (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/mac-pro-pci-raid-card-available/) - build-to-order RAID card for $999,..

Individual stories are linked above.

Quicktime video (http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/r27842e/event/index.html?test=q1wa2sz3x) of event now available.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/august-7th-updates-imacs-ilife-08-iwork-08-mac-mini-and-more/)



Darkroom
Aug 7, 2007, 07:01 PM
steve seemed either really depressed, or really tired during his keynote...

IEatApples
Aug 7, 2007, 07:06 PM
It was okay… I guess… nothing special… :cool:

But I want to know how "good" the ATi card is – in general, as well as compared to the one in the MBPs! :confused:

Now, I want the new 24" iMac… but, I just can't justify upgrading… unless the ATi card is worth it for gaming? :)

Big-TDI-Guy
Aug 7, 2007, 07:07 PM
Were those photos taken with an iPhone by any chance? :p

fjleon
Aug 7, 2007, 07:07 PM
Only 1GB ram? Who is going to play over 1700$ for a computer with just 1GB ram?

No dvd burner on the mac mini? Well, not much of a media center computer, is it?

This is sad...

fivetoadsloth
Aug 7, 2007, 07:08 PM
Is the keynote available for download anywhere? I have fairly slow internet at the moment and when I try to watch it is unbearably choppy. Thanks.

kcroy
Aug 7, 2007, 07:09 PM
I was very happy with today's updates. Once Leopard is out I will buy the new 24" iMac. Looks great.

Regarding iLife...

I read this: "Using iWeb '08, you can embed dynamic web widgets like Google Maps, Google AdSense, Web Gallery albums, or HTML snippets in your .Mac site."

Does anyone know if an html snippet could be a shopping cart of PayPal purchase button? Could you sell something you created on your webpage?

Rintel
Aug 7, 2007, 07:11 PM
I've gone to the Apple site to watch the special event and the quicktime file has a "Bad Request" message.

Anyone else getting this error?

A Pittarelli
Aug 7, 2007, 07:12 PM
very solid update day

Eidorian
Aug 7, 2007, 07:14 PM
Major yawn fest on the iMac and Mac mini.

Mac Pro you're my only hope!

JC4
Aug 7, 2007, 07:15 PM
I just got back from the Easton Apple store. I called ahead to see if they had any 2.8's in stock. "Don't know about the 2.8s" Goes away for a minute. "Yup, plenty" I get there (1 hour drive), and a kid goes back to get one. Several minutes later, he tries to ring me up for a 2.4. Luckily I noticed. He went to the back for Several minutes, comes out: "The 2.8's are Online purchase only."

So much for calling ahead. 1 lost sale Apple.

justkidpro
Aug 7, 2007, 07:17 PM
Yep Photos were taken with an iphone

Dont Hurt Me
Aug 7, 2007, 07:19 PM
very solid update day
I kind of disagree and here is why, the GPU in new iMac is really a backward step from the 7600GT option. Mini had a cpu bump after how long? Keyboard looks cool, and its about time for ilife & iwork. Waiting for real world reviews here and elsewhere.

nagromme
Aug 7, 2007, 07:27 PM
Correction: the iMacs are NOT brushed aluminum. (Apple has never used brushed aluminum for any hardware. They have used a brushed look for textured metal windows, but never on physical products.)

Many apple products are aluminum, but none are BRUSHED aluminum. Brushing creates a distinctive linear texture... like a brush :) See Safari 2 for instance. Like this. (http://www.fastdecals.com/images/Graphics/BrushedAluminum.jpg) There is no such linear texture on these iMacs. Someone posted that that fine texture Apple uses is called bead-blasted. I wouldn't know. But "brushed" is a very distinctive look and very different from what Apple uses.

Just setting the myth straight :) They're aluminum, and they do have some kind of texture. But not brushed.

PS, I like that ALL Mac keyboards, from laptop to desktop can soon have the same top-row key functions. I guess that justifies moving Exposé around and leaving the far-right F-keys unused. I kind of want one of those new compact Bluetooth keyboards.

Fuchal
Aug 7, 2007, 07:32 PM
iWork is just plain amazing. I'm going to pick it up sometime soon. I'm using the trial now, I've already deleted Office. The old versions of Pages have sucked, but the new Pages and Numbers are all Office 2004 should have been.

Eraserhead
Aug 7, 2007, 07:33 PM
iWork is amazing, Numbers looks incredible from the trial, the travel template is going to be amazingly useful for my holiday to SE Asia, the layout is SO much better than anything you can do in Excel. Pages looks great too, really easy to use. The formatting bar looks like it has the right functionality to be useful. Keynote doesn't look like a big update, but more easily lets you set the display screen, and I've only had a brief look.

All in all it looks like the best office suite I've ever used (though I haven't used Office 2007 yet).

It also imports Open XML (Office 2007) documents, which MS still haven't done for MS Office for Mac nearly 18 months after you could for the Windows version.

Does anyone know if an html snippet could be a shopping cart of PayPal purchase button? Could you sell something you created on your webpage?

I'd have thought so.

running
Aug 7, 2007, 07:35 PM
Only 1GB ram? Who is going to play over 1700$ for a computer with just 1GB ram?

No dvd burner on the mac mini? Well, not much of a media center computer, is it?

This is sad...

What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.

Padriac
Aug 7, 2007, 07:36 PM
the GPU in new iMac is really a backward step from the 7600GT option.

Every iMac release/update since inception has caused some whining about the power of the graphics card. This isn't an improvement or disappointment: it's par for the course.

Mini had a cpu bump after how long?
The length of time until the update becomes irrelevant once it happens. Does the mini somehow perform worse because of the time it took Apple to update it?

Keyboard looks cool I agree.


and its about time for ilife & iwork Again, the length of time the update took is irrelevant now that it happened.


Waiting for real world reviews here and elsewhere.

Obviously, although I don't think there is much to review when it comes to the iMac and Mini... the specs and design speak for themselves. The software obviously needs to be played with before judments can be made. The keyboard can be tested now by deciding whether you like the macbook style keyboards or not.

Stop being a drama queen.

Eraserhead
Aug 7, 2007, 07:37 PM
What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

Apple, like ALL the other OEMs rips you off on the accessories/RAM, if you don't like the price buy it elsewhere :rolleyes:.

4ndr3w
Aug 7, 2007, 07:37 PM
No dvd burner on the mac mini? Well, not much of a media center computer, is it?
This is sad...

Mac mini's have always had a DVD burner option!

puckhead193
Aug 7, 2007, 07:37 PM
the video isn't working for me :(

Eraserhead
Aug 7, 2007, 07:41 PM
Only 1GB ram? Who is going to play over 1700$ for a computer with just 1GB ram?

Now all applications that you might want are universal (iWork 08 is so much better than Office its not even funny, and even slowcoach MS will have Office universal in 6 months) this means 1GB RAM is fine on a consumer machine. Sure 2GB will get you better performance (I have 2GB in both my Macs) but 1GB is an adequate minimum.

Muzzway
Aug 7, 2007, 07:42 PM
... but there is no way to actually download or view the presentation on the linked page?

Edit: Um... I figured it out, but it isn't working for me either. (Hint for anyone else who needs help: click the white space just after the end of the description paragraph)

Edit again: Nevermind, unigolyn posted the correct link:

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/aug/r27842e/m_428396549_220_ref.mov

levitynyc
Aug 7, 2007, 07:47 PM
the video isn't working for me :(

me neither

eric_n_dfw
Aug 7, 2007, 07:49 PM
iWork is just plain amazing. I'm going to pick it up sometime soon. I'm using the trial now, I've already deleted Office. The old versions of Pages have sucked, but the new Pages and Numbers are all Office 2004 should have been.Is the trial available for download or do I need to buy iLife (or a new Mac) to get it?

macflurry
Aug 7, 2007, 07:52 PM
I love how apple recognize its fan base and puts all of these conferences and keynotes up for us to watch.

Muzzway
Aug 7, 2007, 07:52 PM
Is the trial available for download or do I need to buy iLife (or a new Mac) to get it?

Right here:

http://www.apple.com/iwork/trial/

unigolyn
Aug 7, 2007, 07:53 PM
the video isn't working for me :(

Yeah, the page is broken but the link was in the page source:

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/aug/r27842e/m_428396549_220_ref.mov

CMC1187
Aug 7, 2007, 07:54 PM
Yeah, the page is broken but the link was in the page source:

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/aug/r27842e/m_428396549_220_ref.mov

Thanks! This video is small. Is there a larger version?

DakotaGuy
Aug 7, 2007, 07:54 PM
steve seemed either really depressed, or really tired during his keynote...

He was depressed because he didn't get to talk about the iPhone.:):p

But seriously he just doesn't have the spunk he used to.

whooleytoo
Aug 7, 2007, 07:55 PM
The video isn't appearing for me either, they must have taken it down (due to demand?)

Not exactly the best day for the Apple webmeisters, eh? :p

Thanks unigolyn for the link!

Dont Hurt Me
Aug 7, 2007, 07:56 PM
Every iMac release/update since inception has caused some whining about the power of the graphics card. This isn't an improvement or disappointment: it's par for the course.


The length of time until the update becomes irrelevant once it happens. Does the mini somehow perform worse because of the time it took Apple to update it?

I agree.


Again, the length of time the update took is irrelevant now that it happened.




Obviously, although I don't think there is much to review when it comes to the iMac and Mini... the specs and design speak for themselves. The software obviously needs to be played with before judments can be made. The keyboard can be tested now by deciding whether you like the macbook style keyboards or not.

Stop being a drama queen.Good spin, but benches will tell the story. Hope your sitting down.:D

dr_lha
Aug 7, 2007, 07:56 PM
I noticed that iWork and iLife now only have an $8 educational discount, rather than the previous $20 discount. Thanks Apple!!! :mad:

Frisco
Aug 7, 2007, 07:57 PM
I originally wasn't crazy about the new iMac, but after seeing it in action in the iLife 08 tour it looks really sweet.

Love it or hate it these iMacs are going to fly off store shelves.

jackc
Aug 7, 2007, 07:58 PM
Check out some video tutorials for iWork:

http://www.apple.com/iwork/tutorials/

thomasfxlt
Aug 7, 2007, 08:00 PM
Correction: the iMacs are NOT brushed aluminum. (Apple has never used brushed aluminum for any hardware. They have used a brushed look for textured metal windows, but never on physical products.)

Many apple products are aluminum, but none are BRUSHED aluminum. Brushing creates a distinctive linear texture... like a brush :) See Safari 2 for instance. Like this. (http://www.fastdecals.com/images/Graphics/BrushedAluminum.jpg) There is no such linear texture on these iMacs. Someone posted that that fine texture Apple uses is called bead-blasted. I wouldn't know. But "brushed" is a very distinctive look and very different from what Apple uses.

Just setting the myth straight :) They're aluminum, and they do have some kind of texture. But not brushed.

PS, I like that ALL Mac keyboards, from laptop to desktop can soon have the same top-row key functions. I guess that justifies moving Exposé around and leaving the far-right F-keys unused. I kind of want one of those new compact Bluetooth keyboards.

How about "matte finish" aluminum?

Ultimatetone
Aug 7, 2007, 08:02 PM
WAAAAAAA!

No Ipod (Nano) update/announcement?


Ultimatetone

Elrond39
Aug 7, 2007, 08:03 PM
Is it maybe anodized aluminum? Like the old iPod Minis, and the current iPod Nanos (if that's what they are, of course)?

dr_lha
Aug 7, 2007, 08:04 PM
WAAAAAAA!

No Ipod (Nano) update/announcement?

Wait until after September 16th.

TC Schiller
Aug 7, 2007, 08:06 PM
Anyone else notice the Software Update for Front Row today?

Apparently it had something to do with iPhone integration.

gusapple
Aug 7, 2007, 08:10 PM
Anyone else notice the Software Update for Front Row today?

Apparently it had something to do with iPhone integration.

No, I am running my new iMac and I can't see anything to do with my iPhone.

Also, here is the update explanation. "- This Front Row update provides for improved iPhoto compatibility."

typecase
Aug 7, 2007, 08:15 PM
I loved the snarky little comment about the keyboard leak :p

skellener
Aug 7, 2007, 08:27 PM
Apple introduced quite a few updates today....
It's like MacWorld in August! Wait a minute.....:confused::eek::p

Still only 8x DVD burner on the iMac. :mad: NewEgg sells an 18x for $29. WTF?? :confused: Pretty darn cool otherwise.:D

Cleverboy
Aug 7, 2007, 08:29 PM
Anyone else see an example of the .Mac Web Gallery yet?
http://gallery.mac.com/emily_parker

The "mosaic" and "carousel" modes are awesome.
I'm more than a bit stunned that this is all happening in the browser.
I mean, "skim" alone is an amazing effect. I'm sure 56k modem users are cursing Apple like drunken sailors. --And here I am unable to watch the videos until I clear hard drive space and upgrade Quicktime. Grrrr... but its all cool...

Here's some irony though, I click "subscribe" and Apple tells me my browser doesn't recognize RSS feeds... AND I'M USING SAFARI RSS, on Tiger... and I'm ON A MAC. Whoops. I guess my PowerPC G4 sporting arse is still too outdated. :P

~ CB

Muzzway
Aug 7, 2007, 08:37 PM
Anyone else see an example of the .Mac Web Gallery yet?
http://gallery.mac.com/emily_parker


Heh, I went there and it said, "This browser is incompatible with .Mac Web Gallery." I thought Steve said you could use any browser to see it :p. Oh well, I'm using Safari 1 on my older eMac, so I'm not complaining. :)

Edit: Well, later in the keynote he said any "modern" browser, and Safari 1 isn't very modern.

MrFrankly
Aug 7, 2007, 08:39 PM
steve seemed either really depressed, or really tired during his keynote...

I've noticed this for a while already. I would not say that he is depressed though.

I believe Steve Jobs is in the computer industry not because he loves computers, but because computers in the early 80s were the best way to make an impact. I think he made pretty clear by what he said to John Sculley in the early 80s. "Do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or do you want to change the world?". That is what it's all about for Jobs, changing the world.

You are confusing his lack of enthusiasm with desktops for depression. Don't get me wrong, he still loves those products. But it's 2007 and it's not about desktop computers anymore. Even when you create the best desktop computer (which Apple has done with the iMac in my opinion) it won't change the world.

Nowadays it's about personal/mobile devices and media. Those devices have are changing the world again, like personal computers did in the 80s. Devices that allow you to access and create information, anywhere. That's why Jobs loves to talk about the iPhone and before that the iPod. It are Apple's first steps into new world-changing technology. The new reasons why Jobs is in the business.

jhero
Aug 7, 2007, 08:43 PM
Anyone have the 650kbps version link?

3D-Troll
Aug 7, 2007, 08:45 PM
I have to say that I was pretty disappointed - glossy screen, lame ATI board for the iMac and a poor mini update. Don't really care for iLife and iWork since I never use them. But the worst thing was that the Apple store did not have anything to show today. You have to wait till tomorrow to see the new iMac and keyboard in the store in Ann Arbor.

Steffen

thomasfxlt
Aug 7, 2007, 08:54 PM
I loved the snarky little comment about the keyboard leak :p

I caught that too. I think he would personally execute the treasonous miscreant that leaked the photo.

afireinside092
Aug 7, 2007, 09:02 PM
Larger Version:

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/aug/r27842e/m_428396549_650_ref.mov

iW00t
Aug 7, 2007, 09:02 PM
Heh, I went there and it said, "This browser is incompatible with .Mac Web Gallery." I thought Steve said you could use any browser to see it :p. Oh well, I'm using Safari 1 on my older eMac, so I'm not complaining. :)

Edit: Well, later in the keynote he said any "modern" browser, and Safari 1 isn't very modern.

The majority of the world is still using IE6

ReanimationLP
Aug 7, 2007, 09:07 PM
It's like MacWorld in August! Wait a minute.....:confused::eek::p

Still only 8x DVD burner on the iMac. :mad: NewEgg sells an 18x for $29. WTF?? :confused: Pretty darn cool otherwise.:D

Theres a reason.

No laptop drives that are DVD have gone faster than 8X, and the iMac uses a laptop drive to save space.

afkbradshaw
Aug 7, 2007, 09:10 PM
the app updates are amazing, took me a while to realise just what a major advance they are and really are very inexpensive for what you get, i had fallen out of favour with imovie but looks like i may become dear friends again

AidenShaw
Aug 7, 2007, 09:15 PM
Now all applications that you might want are universal (iWork 08 is so much better than Office its not even funny, and even slowcoach MS will have Office universal in 6 months) this means 1GB RAM is fine on a consumer machine. Sure 2GB will get you better performance (I have 2GB in both my Macs) but 1GB is an adequate minimum.

But since 2 GiB is less than $100 at Apple's volume discounts, you're still getting <taken advantage of>.

iJawn108
Aug 7, 2007, 09:19 PM
I tired out iWork just not big improvement over 06 and finally! a mac spreadsheet program. A wicked one as far as I can tell. Nice work apple. :D

SPUY767
Aug 7, 2007, 09:24 PM
Now all applications that you might want are universal (iWork 08 is so much better than Office its not even funny, and even slowcoach MS will have Office universal in 6 months) this means 1GB RAM is fine on a consumer machine. Sure 2GB will get you better performance (I have 2GB in both my Macs) but 1GB is an adequate minimum.

yeah, this isnt vista were talking about here. Ive got vista installed on my mac pro which has 8 gigs of ram. Bastard uses 900 megs of memory eith no apps running! Don't know what the deal is.

MoncoZero
Aug 7, 2007, 09:24 PM
The first apple event I am able to watch in full screen!

SMM
Aug 7, 2007, 09:34 PM
But since 2 GiB is less than $100 at Apple's volume discounts, you're still getting <taken advantage of>.

All I ever read from you is anti-Apple BS. What's your trip? You obviously have a good technical grasp of things, but it is always negative. What happened, did they whack you?

Football1maniac
Aug 7, 2007, 09:37 PM
Wait until after September 16th.

Steve said the iPhone more then 5 times today for this "Mac-Related" Event. ANd guess how many times he said iPod? Twice, and both times the iPhone was in the same sentence. And why September 16th? :apple:

iW00t
Aug 7, 2007, 09:43 PM
All I ever read from you is anti-Apple BS. What's your trip? You obviously have a good technical grasp of things, but it is always negative. What happened, did they whack you?

Negative?

Or just simply not what you want to hear?

Considering you can buy a 1GB module (as in 1 X 1GB module) for ~ $40 retail, the 2 X 512MiB modules that come with a $1700 iMac is like literally worthless.

They can't even put in decent memory in such an expensive computer?

Eidorian
Aug 7, 2007, 09:46 PM
All I ever read from you is anti-Apple BS. What's your trip? You obviously have a good technical grasp of things, but it is always negative. What happened, did they whack you?I've had a few debates with AidenShaw in the past. I've found that they're an intelligent member that just speaks what they want to say about how they feel about Apple.

Apple is trying to upsell us and overcharge us for build to order options. After WWDC and today I have no faith in Apple's ability to produce well rounded computer hardware. The only option of course is to get a Mac Pro and dual 30" monitors.

Gymnut
Aug 7, 2007, 09:47 PM
Steve said the iPhone more then 5 times today for this "Mac-Related" Event. ANd guess how many times he said iPod? Twice, and both times the iPhone was in the same sentence. And why September 16th? :apple:

Doesn't the back to school iPod promotion end on the 16th of September?

nsjoker
Aug 7, 2007, 09:49 PM
The reason Steve seemed depressed was because the crowd was completely dead. Do those morons need a neon "Applause" sign? There was zero reaction when the new iMac was unveiled. Really lame, if I were invited out I'd bring banners and air horns to liven things up. Ingrates :mad:

jhero
Aug 7, 2007, 09:57 PM
Larger Version:

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/aug/r27842e/m_428396549_650_ref.mov

Thanks!

dr_lha
Aug 7, 2007, 10:15 PM
Doesn't the back to school iPod promotion end on the 16th of September?
Exactly. For the last 2 years of this promotion, which is clearly aimed at shifting stock of iPods over the summer, there has been an iPod refresh shortly after the offer ended. Its ends Sept 16th this year, so I'm guessing new will be released iPods on Sept 18th (the following Tuesday) or soon after.

iW00t
Aug 7, 2007, 10:23 PM
The reason Steve seemed depressed was because the crowd was completely dead. Do those morons need a neon "Applause" sign? There was zero reaction when the new iMac was unveiled. Really lame, if I were invited out I'd bring banners and air horns to liven things up. Ingrates :mad:

Sorry, Apple's product event is not the cheery version of the "2 minute hate".

If the product sucks, sorry bud, nothing to applause about... it is simply not deserving.

dr_lha
Aug 7, 2007, 10:25 PM
If the product sucks, sorry bud, nothing to applause about... it is simply not deserving.
The new iMacs "suck"? What's wrong with them exactly? Look pretty sweet to me.

Digital Skunk
Aug 7, 2007, 10:25 PM
If Gloss is anywhere out there.... I need to buy your keyboard from you... just let me know when your are ready to sell, I am ready to buy after I finish eating my crow :mad:

yoyo5280
Aug 7, 2007, 10:26 PM
What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.
I think Steve said you can easily install your own extra memory. Buy it from crucial, install easy FINITO!

xnu
Aug 7, 2007, 10:28 PM
Very solid, apps are approaching amazing status in my view. Numbers looks great, I am ready to dump excel finally. Imac, never been a fan of the all-in-one form factor though I have owned probably 7 or 8, I might buy the 24" for home, nice features, great looking computer better than Gateways all in one (ha). .Mac, I have always been a fan, not a great value for most, but having multiple macs the sync feature was always the key value. With the upgrade Apple proves once again they pioneer bringing technology to the individual with the ease of use that we can all take advantage of and they are nimble enough to keep providing incremental improvements over a short time period. Windoze users will be waiting for their 2010 versions of their products before they can dream of some the features delivered today. Onward and upward to 10.5.

iW00t
Aug 7, 2007, 10:29 PM
The new iMacs "suck"? What's wrong with them exactly? Look pretty sweet to me.

What is so special about it?

Any new features?

It is just a faster version of the existing iMac with a screen that everyone loves to hate and a butt ugly black shiny Apple logo in front. There, I said it.

nsjoker
Aug 7, 2007, 10:29 PM
Sorry, Apple's product event is not the cheery version of the "2 minute hate".

If the product sucks, sorry bud, nothing to applause about... it is simply not deserving.

How does the product suck? What was everyone expecting, an iMac that transforms into a flying car with $100,000 in its trunk? It was a solid product before and there was no reason to completely overhaul it, it's called evolution. It's just common courtesy to show appreciation when someone invites you over to share something they think is special. The man didn't stop talking for over an hour and gets no love, he even had to cue them during the middle. This is also probably the event in which most Apple products saw a refresh which should merit some oohs and aahs.

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 10:33 PM
The reason Steve seemed depressed was because the crowd was completely dead. Do those morons need a neon "Applause" sign? There was zero reaction when the new iMac was unveiled. Really lame, if I were invited out I'd bring banners and air horns to liven things up. Ingrates :mad:

It is a media event. They are supposed to be more "objective". They aren't going to wildly cheer (at least publicly) for Apple for that reason.

AidenShaw
Aug 7, 2007, 10:37 PM
All I ever read from you is anti-Apple BS. What's your trip? You obviously have a good technical grasp of things, but it is always negative. What happened, did they whack you?

I just don't drink the Kool-Aid, that's all.

Now that Apple is using the same chips and chipsets as everyone else (although The Lord God Jobs depends on none of you noticing that Apple is six months late in adopting new chips) it's becoming pretty obvious how steep the "Apple tax" really is. You couldn't put a number on it during the PowerPC days - but in the "days of Intel" it's pretty obvious what The Lord God Jobs is taking out of your pocket.

nsjoker
Aug 7, 2007, 10:38 PM
It is a media event. They are supposed to be more "objective". They aren't going to wildly cheer (at least publicly) for Apple for that reason.

A little more enthusiasm would've been nice is all. When Steve has to cue the audience for it you can tell it was going real dry.

AidenShaw
Aug 7, 2007, 10:46 PM
A little more enthusiasm would've been nice is all. When Steve has to cue the audience for it you can tell it was going real dry.

But when the main event of the show is that "we've painted it black instead of white" what can you expect but "real dry".

This is a pathetic update....

iEdd
Aug 7, 2007, 10:51 PM
What a fantastic update. They are almost giving away iMacs now. :) [$1700 for 20", vs the $2100+ I paid for a 17" 18 months ago]
The question is whether or not iWork/iLife is worth purchasing. Will it just be renewed in January or will it be a year away?

aliquis-
Aug 7, 2007, 10:52 PM
I was very happy with today's updates. Once Leopard is out I will buy the new 24" iMac. Looks great.

Regarding iLife...

I read this: "Using iWeb '08, you can embed dynamic web widgets like Google Maps, Google AdSense, Web Gallery albums, or HTML snippets in your .Mac site."

Does anyone know if an html snippet could be a shopping cart of PayPal purchase button? Could you sell something you created on your webpage?I think it's any snippet of code and that iWeb just let Safari/webkit render whatever it is and let you resize whatever result it got, so I guess a paypal button would work.

bdkennedy1
Aug 7, 2007, 10:52 PM
I ran down and bought the new 24" iMac. There was a line so I'm glad I went when I did. It's my 5th one and it is the most beautiful piece of hardware I've ever seen. My mom can't tell the difference between any computer and she gasped when she saw the new one. The keyboard is going to take some getting used to. The piano black around the edges of the screen really makes the desktop pop.

Apple Corps
Aug 7, 2007, 11:01 PM
My belief is that the response was flat because the hardware content was kind of blah. Steve commented several times on the use of aluminum and glass - that is hardly going to generate any excitement. His review of the iMac was very old news: All in One, ports on the back - not anything to cheer about. One wonders if an event was really a good idea. I've already purchased iWork and iLife - very nice but overdue.

All in all - this event was destined to be flat given what was announced.

MonkeyClaw
Aug 7, 2007, 11:08 PM
The reason Steve seemed depressed was because the crowd was completely dead. Do those morons need a neon "Applause" sign? There was zero reaction when the new iMac was unveiled. Really lame, if I were invited out I'd bring banners and air horns to liven things up. Ingrates :mad:

I picked up on that real early, he even sort of mentioned it at one point during the new iMovie demo (which looks awesome!). Really a shame cause the new iMac and software to go with it are really really great products.

CANEHDN
Aug 7, 2007, 11:09 PM
I've transferred my expenses excel sheet over to Numbers. It's very nice. It takes a little getting use to but very sleek and nice. Uncluttered by still powerful. I like.

lcm123
Aug 7, 2007, 11:09 PM
I just stopped by apple store and checked out the new iMacs, i tell ya, it looks much more impressive in real life than on the keynote, even the pics from the apple website won't do it justice.

Digital Skunk
Aug 7, 2007, 11:12 PM
After looking at the site some more i am finding myself very upset with the way Apple is doing business. I know that the corporate world is all based on the bottom line but i am not too happy with the way Apple is cutting their costs by not offering a real keyboard with the new iMac. They save $X for using MacBook keyboards, and $X for using only the 20" panel, and $X for using laptop parts for the iMac. I wonder when Apple will make some real changes in their lineup and give their customers something really good to sink their teeth into. The MacPro got nothing, the Mac Mini got an update that it should have had almost half a year ago and the price remains the same, and where in the WORLD IS MY IPOD?

I am glad that the iMac is cheaper, and that the specs are more of what people have been asking for, but what about the things that make Apple that innovative company it used to be? is innovation too expensive for Apple and they are now just following the regular PC (Dell, HP) business model of small design changes and obvious progressions of their tech specs? How typical, where is my revolutionary computer company...?

OldTimey
Aug 7, 2007, 11:14 PM
Major yawn fest on the iMac and Mac mini.

Mac Pro you're my only hope!


Hope for what? What was it that you wanted in this update?

100$ bucks says you are let down by the next Mac Pro update....

hatcher146
Aug 7, 2007, 11:17 PM
i thought it was a pretty good update today....on the other hand...

come on iPods!!! i cant wait until september. :apple:

OldTimey
Aug 7, 2007, 11:17 PM
Will it just be renewed in January or will it be a year away?

doubtful..it is called iLife '08 after all.

gonnabuyamac
Aug 7, 2007, 11:19 PM
What a fantastic update. They are almost giving away iMacs now. :) [$1700 for 20", vs the $2100+ I paid for a 17" 18 months ago]
The question is whether or not iWork/iLife is worth purchasing. Will it just be renewed in January or will it be a year away?

No... this is iWork/iLife 08 - meaning that it will be for a year, or possibly two. I ordered mine today and am really looking forward to an updated Pages. I used Pages for a while, but prefer more of a word processing view so I switched to Office 04. After seeing the demo today I have every intention of switching back to iWork.

GFLPraxis
Aug 7, 2007, 11:19 PM
I kind of disagree and here is why, the GPU in new iMac is really a backward step from the 7600GT option. Mini had a cpu bump after how long? Keyboard looks cool, and its about time for ilife & iwork. Waiting for real world reviews here and elsewhere.

$300 price drop, better processors, bigger hard drives, bigger screens, arguably better graphics cards, new design with glass screens that can be easily cleaned, and new software bundled.

Anyone who doesn't call that a significant update is on crack.

Anyway, I just looked up some benchmarks and the Radeon HD 2600 Pro seems like it should outperform the mobile 7600...the Radeon HD 2400XT seems pretty close to the Geforce 8500GT in performance, and the 8500GT is supposed to beat the 7600. I'd assume a 2600Pro would beat or at least match a 7600GT.

I mean, it's not a very big leap, but it's not a step backwards. And all the other specs went up while the price dropped.

age234
Aug 7, 2007, 11:30 PM
steve seemed either really depressed, or really tired during his keynote...

Maybe, but I think Steve is the type that draws a lot of energy from the audience. When they're all sitting there like bumps on a log, he seems to drag a bit.

But I think the keynote was good. Better than the iPod Hifi one, Steve sounded almost dead at that one.

Love the new iMac.

twoodcc
Aug 7, 2007, 11:35 PM
well i am very pleased :)

.mac, ilife, and iwork....and keyboard.....all that i wanted from this event. got everything except the keyboard already :cool: :apple:

gmanrique
Aug 7, 2007, 11:38 PM
It does not seem like you know what you are talking about.

The beautiful design is the reason they use laptop parts, so it can be the size it is. And by the way, even if laptop sales are stronger than ever, those components are still pricier than desktop ones.

Now the last part of your comment is even worst than the rest. Just look at the computers and compare them. All this 'Apple sucks', 'Apple sells overpriced hardware', etc. comments are so out of line. Look at any other computer, from any manufacturer that has a 'nice' design and similar parts, and they are even pricier than Macs. If you get Dell cheapo boxes that fit almost any configuration, etc. you cannot remotely expect Apple to bring the products they bring to market, charging what Dell and others charge for these brand-name clones.

BTW, I am not saying Macs are cheap. I know Apple makes money. That is why they are a business. But I think they are worth the price given the attention to detail Apple has in their products, software and hardware. And before you tell me about the 'flops', i know about them and still seems to me that Apple, in terms of bringing great products to market, has an impressive track record, despite the times they have overlooked at something (They are humans after all).

After looking at the site some more i am finding myself very upset with the way Apple is doing business. I know that the corporate world is all based on the bottom line but i am not too happy with the way Apple is cutting their costs by not offering a real keyboard with the new iMac. They save $X for using MacBook keyboards, and $X for using only the 20" panel, and $X for using laptop parts for the iMac. I wonder when Apple will make some real changes in their lineup and give their customers something really good to sink their teeth into. The MacPro got nothing, the Mac Mini got an update that it should have had almost half a year ago and the price remains the same, and where in the WORLD IS MY IPOD?

I am glad that the iMac is cheaper, and that the specs are more of what people have been asking for, but what about the things that make Apple that innovative company it used to be? is innovation too expensive for Apple and they are now just following the regular PC (Dell, HP) business model of small design changes and obvious progressions of their tech specs? How typical, where is my revolutionary computer company...?

verniesgarden
Aug 7, 2007, 11:43 PM
i just can't stand the black eye on the imac

just alum

and the whole elements thing kinda reminded me of adobe cs3


i like the look of the new keyboard if it didnt change the keys around, plus i use 2 CRTs i don't need the dim buttons, thats what i like about the old keyboard is that the buttons are labeled so you can do what you will with them now with at i feel locked into having those functions

dnet1975
Aug 7, 2007, 11:49 PM
I logged into my .mac account and under the add personal domain you can redirect domains by having your registrar point to web.mac.com Thats great if you want to use .mac for your web page but what about email for your domain. What good is a domain if you cant create email accounts on it. A simple mail server mx record option would be nice. Anyone read or heard anything about this?

suneohair
Aug 8, 2007, 12:02 AM
Hope for what? What was it that you wanted in this update?

100$ bucks says you are let down by the next Mac Pro update....

I highly doubt that. With SS and Harpertown dropping by the end of September, the chances of Apple starting the 45nm chip rollout with the Mac Pro is quite high.

These CPUs will be cheaper than the current ones (Clovertown already is). Not to mention, if Apple keeps with the trends of graphics on the Pro we should see an 8500GT (or ATI equivalent) and a HD2900 of 8800GT*, 2GB of RAM standard, maybe a slight bump in HD.

Considering the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in a year, and no, the eight-core was not an update it was an option added on to the Mac Pro, the Mac Pro update should turn out to be a good one.

Eight-cores all around
Better GPUs
More RAM
More HD
Better mobo chipset

The question remains when. Does Apple have the potential to disappoint. Oh yeah. However, I don't think the iMac update was bad at all. The glossy screen is a bit odd, but otherwise good.

Oh, and in this update Apple could have offered: More RAM, new GPUs, and taken the line to all eight-core with the recent Clovertown price drops.

Educate yourself before you attempt to question what someone expects in an update. It will save you the embarrassment, because the fact is something could have and should have been done with the Mac Pro.

Digital Skunk
Aug 8, 2007, 12:04 AM
It does not seem like you know what you are talking about.

The beautiful design is the reason they use laptop parts, so it can be the size it is. And by the way, even if laptop sales are stronger than ever, those components are still pricier than desktop ones.

Now the last part of your comment is even worst than the rest. Just look at the computers and compare them. All this 'Apple sucks', 'Apple sells overpriced hardware', etc. comments are so out of line. Look at any other computer, from any manufacturer that has a 'nice' design and similar parts, and they are even pricier than Macs. If you get Dell cheapo boxes that fit almost any configuration, etc. you cannot remotely expect Apple to bring the products they bring to market, charging what Dell and others charge for these brand-name clones.

BTW, I am not saying Macs are cheap. I know Apple makes money. That is why they are a business. But I think they are worth the price given the attention to detail Apple has in their products, software and hardware. And before you tell me about the 'flops', i know about them and still seems to me that Apple, in terms of bringing great products to market, has an impressive track record, despite the times they have overlooked at something (They are humans after all).

I think I know what I am talking about very well. I think what I am saying is more of an opinion based on what I see than a fact. You have to watch what you say before you come off sounding like hot head ready to explode if someone talks bad about Apple.

I love the company... I love the software first... hardware second... so pretty computers aren't going to get my money. I need the software first and foremost then I need the software to work on what ever I put it on. My G5 has just as many cords sticking out the back of it as the PC photo does on the website. That's besides the point however. I want Apple to make breakthrough tech like they did in the past... updates that did make your jaw drop. The keynote was boring because everyone expected everything. it wasn't anything new at all, and the design was more of a "Huh" than a "Wow" so people just turned their heads slightly to the side trying to figure out what Steve was trying to do with this new Mac. People will get used to the new design, just like the first chin G5 iMac, and people will get used to the keyboard.... since it is out... I will get used to it eventually, especially when I get my Mac Pro.... but these updates were far too late and far to uninspired to be anything worth applauding...

It's like waiting for a late bus. The bus driver may be happy to pick you up and get on his way, but you were the one waiting in the cold rain.

Digitaljim
Aug 8, 2007, 12:06 AM
I thought the new iMac design would grow on me, but after watching the keynote my initial "ew, fugly' thoughts have just been confirmed. The audience seemed to agree as the usual whooping and cheering was replaced by silence and an embarrassed sounding Steve Jobs.

The specs are fine, and the glossiness will appeal to a huge majority of people, but the design stinks. And design, after all, is what makes Apple different. This is an ugly, disjointed mess.

On the plus side, I am fan of the new keyboard.

hajime
Aug 8, 2007, 12:18 AM
Hello. I don't find the cost for upgrading from iWorks'06 and iLife'06 to the latest version. Does that mean I have to pay for the full prices?

Digital Skunk
Aug 8, 2007, 12:21 AM
I thought the new iMac design would grow on me, but after watching the keynote my initial "ew, fugly' thoughts have just been confirmed. The audience seemed to agree as the usual whooping and cheering was replaced by silence and an embarrassed sounding Steve Jobs.

The specs are fine, and the glossiness will appeal to a huge majority of people, but the design stinks. And design, after all, is what makes Apple different. This is an ugly, disjointed mess.

On the plus side, I am fan of the new keyboard.

They should have made the entire thing black.

Hello. I don't find the cost for upgrading from iWorks'06 and iLife'06 to the latest version. Does that mean I have to pay for the full prices?

Yeah... you will have to pay full price. It may not be worth it to you unless you need 'Numbers' or whatever it is called. Users of iWork/iLife 05 may want to upgrade, but for those that have last years versions, the better choice may be to wait for next year... or two years from now... whenever Apple puts out the next version.

unigolyn
Aug 8, 2007, 12:23 AM
But when the main event of the show is that "we've painted it black instead of white" what can you expect but "real dry".

This is a pathetic update....

If you'd put aside your trolling stick for a second and read what others have already posted, you'd realize that the audience consisted of reporters, not Apple fanboys. Reporters don't hoot and applaud at The Steve because of this little thing called professionalism.

And please, the main event was not "we've painted it black". They modernized the design (the white polycarbonate has been around since G3 iBooks) and brought the price way down on both 20" and 24" iMacs while raising the specs considerably. Also, did you notice that whole iLife/iWork thing? You think an Apple-made competitor to Excel is not noteworthy? iMovie rebuilt from the ground up is not noteworthy?

I don't know what you're smoking, but I don't want any.

Padriac
Aug 8, 2007, 12:31 AM
The point is this: until you clarify this statement

I wonder when Apple will make some real changes in their lineup and give their customers something really good to sink their teeth into.

you are just talking out your ass. What counts as "really good"? How are the current Apple products not "really good"? Can you give an example of when Apple made a "really good" product in the past and how they are not doing it now? What company is currently making "really good" products if not Apple?

mrparet
Aug 8, 2007, 12:32 AM
Hello. I don't find the cost for upgrading from iWorks'06 and iLife'06 to the latest version. Does that mean I have to pay for the full prices?

Yes. You only get a discount if you bought your Mac with iLife *really* close to the event where the new one was released.

ozone
Aug 8, 2007, 12:49 AM
I don't know... I think the iMacs are pretty sweet looking. Not sure why some of you think they're so ugly. Looked at some of the PC competition lately? I've been shopping around for a PC system for Windows tasks at work, and I tell you, it's not pretty. The best of the lot is HP - they've come a long way. :apple:

hajime
Aug 8, 2007, 01:10 AM
I hope Apple offers an option for changing the color.

Hunabku
Aug 8, 2007, 01:19 AM
OK what the heck did they write the .mac app in? That thing is flippin amazing! You don't see that kind of performance even with a dedicated file format/plugin like flash!

And the way it interfaces so tightly with another desktop app, iphoto, really takes it to the next level. Now as they start to migrate even more of these kinds of user experience/technologies to closely integrated other apps and devices - look the hell out.

No one will come close to touching such an integrated hardware/software round-trip experience like that.

All i can say is ... apple keep on smokin that kind ....

stoutboy1
Aug 8, 2007, 01:22 AM
I just got back from the Easton Apple store. I called ahead to see if they had any 2.8's in stock. "Don't know about the 2.8s" Goes away for a minute. "Yup, plenty" I get there (1 hour drive), and a kid goes back to get one. Several minutes later, he tries to ring me up for a 2.4. Luckily I noticed. He went to the back for Several minutes, comes out: "The 2.8's are Online purchase only."

So much for calling ahead. 1 lost sale Apple.


Don't let some idiots mistake ruin an awesome computer for you. That crap always happens just role with it itll be worth it.

iEdd
Aug 8, 2007, 01:27 AM
No... this is iWork/iLife 08 - meaning that it will be for a year, or possibly two. I ordered mine today and am really looking forward to an updated Pages. I used Pages for a while, but prefer more of a word processing view so I switched to Office 04. After seeing the demo today I have every intention of switching back to iWork.

Do'h.. Heh, almost thought it was 2008. I suspect Apple might start releasing iWork/iLife at the end of a year for the next year then [iLife '09 in December '08]. Either way, you're right, this should be the longest run of iLife/iWork so far.

kitki83
Aug 8, 2007, 01:32 AM
I know this been asked but isnt iLife always included in the Mac OS X CD? or its included with system disc when you get a computer?

verniesgarden
Aug 8, 2007, 01:41 AM
I know this been asked but isnt iLife always included in the Mac OS X CD? or its included with system disc when you get a computer?

just the system discs not the operating system

snickelfritz
Aug 8, 2007, 02:32 AM
I went down to the Apple store to check out the new iMac in person.
Good news: it's very fast and beautifully built. Looks and feels very solid.
Bad news: (IMO) the overall design is not as clean and simple as the previous iMac. The large black border surrounding the screen, and large aluminum chin are just not working for me visually.
The black Apple logo is a strange departure from their previous image.

I'm surprised they didn't simply base the new iMac on the successful Cinema Display, and include an external drive bay for a second HDD.
(think in terms of the Mac Pro drive sled design at the bottom/back of the display)
Mac Pro/23" ACD for me this year.

The new keyboard is awesome; very solid with excellent feel when typing.
I'm definitely buying one.

BillyBobBongo
Aug 8, 2007, 02:33 AM
Quicktime video (http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/r27842e/event/index.html?test=q1wa2sz3x) of event now available.

Cheers for that!

Not exactly gripping cinema! Two things.....

1. Steve, shave you scruffy bugger!
2. Buying a belt, or trousers that fit, means you don't have to hoist em up every five minutes! :p

reflex
Aug 8, 2007, 02:33 AM
Apple, like ALL the other OEMs rips you off on the accessories/RAM, if you don't like the price buy it elsewhere :rolleyes:.

It is really overpriced though. I can get the same for €220.

Signal Man
Aug 8, 2007, 02:37 AM
Sorry but I just have to say why a gloss display ? just so it looks good in store? Couldn't we have had an option for a matte display for the people who have to actually use them all day.


Just my 2 cents

iancapable
Aug 8, 2007, 02:37 AM
What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.

2x 2GB dimms are expensive anyway, ram is not cheap these days.

Apple are marking down the machines, so they make money on upgrades like any other computer company.

Go look at any of the nice looking pcs, they are just as pricey or more pricey that apple.

reflex
Aug 8, 2007, 02:39 AM
yeah, this isnt vista were talking about here. Ive got vista installed on my mac pro which has 8 gigs of ram. Bastard uses 900 megs of memory eith no apps running! Don't know what the deal is.

Vista with Aero on uses slightly less than 500MB here. A lot, but not as much as on your computer apparently. Possibly you've got some other stuff loaded?

reflex
Aug 8, 2007, 02:40 AM
Considering you can buy a 1GB module (as in 1 X 1GB module) for ~ $40 retail, the 2 X 512MiB modules that come with a $1700 iMac is like literally worthless.

Note that the iMac comes with 1x1GB. And the upgrades are too expensive, as always.

illitrate23
Aug 8, 2007, 02:49 AM
anyone know if the apple stores in the uk are going to be stocking iLife/iWork and the new keyboards today? or will we have to wait until next week?

BKKbill
Aug 8, 2007, 02:57 AM
How about "matte finish" aluminum?

Getting closer from Apples web site.
New from the outside in.

iMac sets new standards for elegance and power. It packs a complete, high-performance computer into its all-in-one design. With its anodized aluminum frame and glass cover, it’s striking to behold. The glossy widescreen display — available in 20- and 24-inch sizes — makes photos and movies come alive with rich color. The use of recyclable glass and aluminum makes iMac friendlier to the environment, too.

Padriac
Aug 8, 2007, 03:45 AM
Sorry but I just have to say why a gloss display ? just so it looks good in store? Couldn't we have had an option for a matte display for the people who have to actually use them all day.


Just my 2 cents

The whole thing is covered in glass, like an iPhone. It would literally be impossible to have a non-glossy display with this design. They'd have to find a way to make matte glass, which they could probably do but would be a bunch of trouble/expense.

FWIW, the thing looks better in person than in pictures. The aluminum comes off better and looks slick next to the black/glass. In pictures my mind keeps tyring to trick me that the aluminum is white (since that's what I'm used to). I wasn't so hot on the black border thing, but now having seen it I appreciate the contrast. Looks good. Incredibly thin.

Wild-Bill
Aug 8, 2007, 03:46 AM
It is really overpriced though. I can get the same for €220.

And I can get a 500 gig SATA drive for about $120.00 Apple charges $329.00. They also charge $400.00 for an obsolete video card from a year and a half ago that only costs $150.00
(Mac Pro BTO stuff)..

koobcamuk
Aug 8, 2007, 04:31 AM
I ran down and bought the new 24" iMac. There was a line so I'm glad I went when I did. It's my 5th one...

sorry, what?!!?

koobcamuk
Aug 8, 2007, 04:37 AM
Now, what does this mean for the MacBook/Pro? If they are moving toward aluminium and away from polycarbonate... does anyone think they will ever put glass in a portable (apart from iPhone)?

JobsRules
Aug 8, 2007, 04:41 AM
It's be churlish to say the new iMacs aren't very nice machines but if you're a Mac OS X user, the choice of machines you have is only 50% there.

If you want something of similar power to the iMac but want your own monitor you have to either make do with a Mini or go for the Mac Pro, a huge hulking beast, or decide to have an iMac, or buy a laptop to use as a desktop...

It's all so lacking in choice...

I'd like a rackmount Mac. I'd like a midi-tower mac.

I'd like to see something like an Xserve, 1U or 2U that is designed to be used as a general purpose machine that has mid-range power. Without rack ears it's the pizza-box mac everyone's been wanting for years, with ears it slots right in amongst your audio or video rig, nice and neat.

willybNL
Aug 8, 2007, 04:58 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

.Mac (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/apple-updates-mac/) - personal domains, increased storage (10GB) and transfer limit (100GB), Web Gallery (example (http://gallery.mac.com/emily_parker))



So, now everybody can see again how slow .mac is... It took me 20 seconds to load the first page (and yes, I have one of the best connections to the internet over here available). 4 seconds is max for normal site.

Unworkable. Either Apple should boost for europe with servers over here or really lower that price.

P.s. Mostly it's the effects (like the effect under the pictures) that are really slow, so I guess it's something with CPU on their end.

rs76
Aug 8, 2007, 05:20 AM
It would appear to me that the only reason to hate the update is if you already hated the Imac. You are basically getting an updated machine for 200-300 dollars less then before the release.

People can squabble about the aluminum case and glossy screen. Some will not like it, most probably will. The same goes with the white Imac. Some liked the design, some not so much.

Neodym
Aug 8, 2007, 05:59 AM
I'm not sure how the impression will be once i see the iMac in reality instead of on pictures only. At first glance the design looked sleek and sinister (in an elegant way). At second glance the black frame around the screen and the black Apple logo together looked simply too dark for me - like a tombstone. Some companies are probably already working for a replacement logo in aluminum, silver and (black) chrome...

In any case I'm really looking forward to Kodawarisan's first disassembly of this machine. Should be online within 2 weeks i guess, maybe less ;)

Manic Mouse
Aug 8, 2007, 06:14 AM
Good set of updates. Seems things are going well at Apple!

Marvy
Aug 8, 2007, 06:33 AM
To all of you, who think the audience was not enthusiastic enough, or that SJ was depressed or something: I recommend you to go look for the media event in Japan, where Steve introduced the new white iBooks. It makes yesterday's event look like a party in comparison. Media events have always been much more dry, with Steve looking a bit lonely up there on stage, like he's the only one excited. But that's what these press-only events are like.
I, for one, found the event to surpass all expectations. I mean, who thought there would be this many software updates? Some even thought iWork and iLife wouldn't be updated until Jan 08. So I think we got more than we asked for.

Manic Mouse
Aug 8, 2007, 06:34 AM
Is there a stream for the event?

gonnabuyamac
Aug 8, 2007, 06:49 AM
If any of you own a silver RAZR, did you notice that the iMac looks kind of similar: the black around the screen that makes the screen look bigger than it really is. That was my first response: "Hey, it would match my phone!"

jouster
Aug 8, 2007, 06:50 AM
I just got back from the Easton Apple store. I called ahead to see if they had any 2.8's in stock. "Don't know about the 2.8s" Goes away for a minute. "Yup, plenty" I get there (1 hour drive), and a kid goes back to get one. Several minutes later, he tries to ring me up for a 2.4. Luckily I noticed. He went to the back for Several minutes, comes out: "The 2.8's are Online purchase only."

So much for calling ahead. 1 lost sale Apple.

You're refusing to buy just because a store clerk made a mistake and cost you a couple hours?

ruckus
Aug 8, 2007, 06:58 AM
I'm pretty happy with the updates today. Quite a bit was announced.

I love the iMac design now.

I'm glad to see the mini take some attention, it'll be around a bit longer :)

I'm glad .mac got some love too!

The software updates are also welcome.

I was hoping to see some revolutionary ipod changes though. Oh well, can't have it all I guess. Still want to see macbook upgrades too.

misr12
Aug 8, 2007, 07:02 AM
I saw the Numbers demo too. It looked slick but what about the rest of us? Will it support Excel macros for the rest of us! I hope but I don't think it will.... What about PC world Excel formatting too? These are major issues for switchers and co-platform users. I have been a Mac for over 12 years. I won't get real excited until I see cross platform file formatting compatibility.... If it supports these features then it is truly an Office Suite for the rest of us!

aafuss1
Aug 8, 2007, 07:22 AM
It seems that the Flicke iLife photos linked in the article are gone.

MacPanda
Aug 8, 2007, 07:26 AM
okay i was expected some nice updates to lineup. The third gen imac is not my cup of tea, in terms on design i truely loved the first gen g3 ones with their cute retro look and the lamp edition the second generation.
They went from having the world's most flexible computer screen to a nasty hinge which is what they use in the current models of the imac. I don't understand why the screen need to be so glossy as it gives too much unnecessary glare and yes the colours will be polished and vivid but not true colours.

The update to the mac mini is simply pathetic to say the least. I understand it is bare basic machine but really they shouldn't cripple it with 950 chipset and give people a decent graphics card like they should do in the macbook too. Even the ibook had a decent graphics card, since apple got in bed with intel the whole integrated graphics issue has arisen. I personally feel this was put together at the last minute.

I am in the market for a new machine and nothing really impresses me. The imac is glossy so that is a no to me, i mind as well just get a mac mini and a matte screen.

Someone earlier said tell me about great hardware that apple produced and isn't producing any more: look at the 2nd gen imac, look at the titanium powerbook look at the 1st g4 based mac mini - all great products.

zwida
Aug 8, 2007, 07:32 AM
Is there a stream for the event?

It's linked directly from Apple.com's front page.

JC4
Aug 8, 2007, 07:45 AM
You're refusing to buy just because a store clerk made a mistake and cost you a couple hours?

Yup. I'm an idiot that way. I can sit on my current machines till the next round of updates.

If I had just showed up and found out the 2.8's were online purchase only, it wouldn't have been an issue. But, I specifically asked for the 2.8 model when I called. He even left the phone for a couple minutes to check on that model. It's not a big deal, just a couple hours, but I won't reward them with a purchase. It's my only means of protest, since the kid in the store went diving to answer a phone call when I complained(not yell, just state what I heard on the phone). Their loss not mine, I really don't NEED another iMac, it was a WANT. I'll just take the same cash and go buy a Camera lens or some other toy.

Lesser Evets
Aug 8, 2007, 08:01 AM
I was very happy with today's updates. Once Leopard is out I will buy the new 24" iMac. Looks great.

Regarding iLife...

I read this: "Using iWeb '08, you can embed dynamic web widgets like Google Maps, Google AdSense, Web Gallery albums, or HTML snippets in your .Mac site."

Does anyone know if an html snippet could be a shopping cart of PayPal purchase button? Could you sell something you created on your webpage?

I found this update was a kind of cleaning up where Jobs released stuff we expected in April and June. Good, but just expected stuff.

As for PAYPAL, I am not sure they offer that, but it isn't hard at all to insert a PAYPAL button into a website:

Go to PAYPAL, they walk you through. It gives you the code. Copy it into the code where you want on your website (you need to edit the html in a script program if you don;t have a proper web editing program). There it is.

Simple. I figured out how to program websites this past month because I couldn;t wait for Steve's loafy ass and another sloppy iWeb application. Is this program going to be WYSIWYG yet??

ImAlwaysRight
Aug 8, 2007, 08:06 AM
I just want to know if anyone else who made a prediction (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=338270&post#33) got as close as I did:

Let's just see how close this comes ...

$1199
20"
2.2GHz
1GB RAM (up to 4gb)
250GB HD
SuperDrive
8600 - 128MB

$1499
20"
2.4GHz
2GB RAM
400GB HD (or 500GB)
SuperDrive
8600GT - 256

$1799
24"
2.4GHz
2GB RAM
400GB HD (or 500GB)
SuperDrive
8600GT - 256
Price and screen sizes were right on, but that was given to us in rumors, as were brushed metal, redesign, etc, so as for what wasn't mentioned:

Guessed Right:
• SuperDrive across the line
• Video card memory sizes
• Low end lesser video card, mid and high end better video card
• Processor speeds in the two high end models (low end is 2.0GHz instead of 2.2)
• Low end hard drive 250GB while mid and high share same increased hard drive size (I guesed 400GB but Apple went with a more mediocre 320GB)
• 1GB RAM in the low end

Ram sizes were off -- would have never thought Apple would leave 1GB across the line, but they DID upgrade to one single 1GB stick instead of 2x512MB, making upgrading to 2 or 3GB total easy by only buying one memory stick and not having to pull anything

All in all, pretty close predictions. You all just remember ImAlwaysRight. ;)

nbhms
Aug 8, 2007, 08:16 AM
Before anyone flames me for this post as trolling or being anti-Apple . . . I've owned Apple since Apple II+. Currently own an Intel iMac and a PowerMacG4. I've been wanting to upgrade the G4 to an Intel Mac for over a year now, but Apple doesn't provide the machine I need/want. I was hoping they'd provide it with this update, but they didn't.

I think maybe the "letdown" in this update is not so much about the shiny new exterior, or the internal update or lack of update. It's how this update compares to the refresh that happened when Apple switched to Intel.

In the last few years, with the Mac Mini, the low end 17" iMac, the switch to Intel, bootcamp, etc, it looked like Apple was making moves to recapture market share and make the Mac for "everyone". And it was working - Apple has gained ground in the last few years.

Fast forward to Summer of 2007. I will agree that the new iMac and the iPhones are industry leader products. But I don't like what's insinuated by what's not there. To me it looks like Apple is making a return to the expensive "status symbol" computers and consumer devices. I don't see any other explanation for the drop of the 17" model and the neglect given the Mac Mini.

I'm worried Apple has found their niche where they can sell a premium device to a select market and make a profit, and are happy there.

More points backing this up:

1. Courting id, Epic, etc to port their graphics intesive game engines to Mac OS X, and providing outdated, middle of the road, NON UPGRADEABLE graphics cards in all but the highest end machine - does not make sense.
2. Providing a RAID option at $999. Come on Apple, I can buy PC motherboards with SATA RAID5 built in for less than $100. Yes, I know that card is better, but once again, give us CHOICE. It shouldn't be "all out premium or nothing".
3. 4GB in the new iMac is $850. 4GB from a reputable online retailer is $250. Yes I know Apple needs to make their markup, but come on, really.
4. Leave in the 17" iMac. Not everyone wants a 20" or wants to pay for it. And don't answer "mac mini" unless you give a comparable graphics card in the mini. CHOICE.
5. Why can I choose a 250GB drive for drive 1 on a Mac pro, but 2,3,4 can only be 500 or 750? At 3X the cost of the same drive retail I might add?Especially if you are providing a RAID card now and I will probably want all 4 drives matching. Come on Apple, CHOICE?
6. Part of the promise of going to Intel was faster/better updates. It didn't even take a year for this hope to disappear.

Give me a Mac mini with max 4GB RAM, upgradeable GPU, and Firewire 800 - and I'd buy tomorrow.

nbhms

d-macuser
Aug 8, 2007, 08:28 AM
First post here in Mac Forums, and while I've always been positive and supportive about Mac products, I'm a little hesitant in embracing the iMac updates.

I have been interested in this update since it's speculation and am disappointed in two specific areas:

1. Video Card: If you're going to be selling a 24" monitor with the iMac I think you should be releasing a very capable video card. This can't be said for the ATI 2600HD. I think there should have at least been an upgrade option for a better card. This has always been a knock on Apple, and the iMac particularly, why they continue to ignore it is beyond me.

2. Memory: This is slightly dampered by the fact that the memory should be easily upgradable, but Apple is really sticking it to the customer on this front. By saying "We would prefer you to upgrade it because we really can't make much profit in a competitive memory market" just puts the business first, and is a little disappointing from a customer perspective. I also believe that if you think that 1gb of memory is suitable for a 24" computer that costs over 2 grand, you're seeing this upgrade through rose-coloured glasses.


I think the iMac debate is one based on perspective. If you're expecting desktop performance, you won't get it. If you're looking for attractive thin design at the price of a well equipped portable, you'll get it.

The main issue I'm currently juggling is my love for Mac software and the ability to build a 24" PC that would outperform a iMac by close to three times at the same price.

MrCrowbar
Aug 8, 2007, 08:41 AM
Give me a Mac mini with max 4GB RAM, upgradeable GPU, and Firewire 800 - and I'd buy tomorrow.

nbhms

4 GB RAM would be feasible I guess, but upgradable GPU is a no go since it's an integrated chip for size and heat reasons. It's perfectly fine for 2D graphics and hight def Video playback. Firewire 800 doesn't make much sense for consumers. It makes sense for people having a High Def camcorder that has FW800 output. The mini just doens't have the horsepower to handle (edit, reencode) high def material in a not frustrating way anyway. That's what iMacs are for. Especially now, the iMacs are a far better deal than the minis. I'd buy a $400 2GHz Mini right now.

Choice is actually bad if there's too much of it. You know what you want, but a lot of people actually go to best buy or whatever and let non tech savvy people give them advice what computer to buy because there's just too much choice. The dell online store is horrible, even if you know exactly what you want. You have to customize different systems to your liking because the price is different (for the same thing, from the same store). I'd personally go for the low end 24" iMac once leopard is out. It comes with one 1GB SO-DIMM so I can take any off the shelf 2GB SO-DIMM and put it in the second slot. I didn't waste money like if there were 2 512 SO-DIMMs in there.

If you want choice, build your own PC and put your chose operating system on it. OSX is too integrated with the Mac hardware to make sense on a homebrew system. If you love OSX too much, get the high end stuff and add peripherals.

gmanrique
Aug 8, 2007, 08:41 AM
the intention was not to sound hot headed, so I hope no hard feelings.

What I don't understand is your statement of Apple getting cheaper prices by using laptop parts instead of real desktop parts. That is quite the opposite.

Added Note: Also, what is that 'cutting cost' thing by not including a real keyboard with the iMac? I did not know the newly designed keyboard was virtual and no real.

And then, in your answer to my post, you said that you care first about software, second about hardware, yet, yesterday's keynote showed a huge advance in software, not so much in hardware, and you are not that happy with the announcement and the poor show on innovation. Maybe it is a matter of opinion since I found the new iMac really nice and price worthy, and the software even more attractive (I already order both, iLife and iWork).

To me, it sounds a little contradictory, but maybe it is just me. So, as I said before, no hard feelings.

I think I know what I am talking about very well. I think what I am saying is more of an opinion based on what I see than a fact. You have to watch what you say before you come off sounding like hot head ready to explode if someone talks bad about Apple.

I love the company... I love the software first... hardware second... so pretty computers aren't going to get my money. I need the software first and foremost then I need the software to work on what ever I put it on. My G5 has just as many cords sticking out the back of it as the PC photo does on the website. That's besides the point however. I want Apple to make breakthrough tech like they did in the past... updates that did make your jaw drop. The keynote was boring because everyone expected everything. it wasn't anything new at all, and the design was more of a "Huh" than a "Wow" so people just turned their heads slightly to the side trying to figure out what Steve was trying to do with this new Mac. People will get used to the new design, just like the first chin G5 iMac, and people will get used to the keyboard.... since it is out... I will get used to it eventually, especially when I get my Mac Pro.... but these updates were far too late and far to uninspired to be anything worth applauding...

It's like waiting for a late bus. The bus driver may be happy to pick you up and get on his way, but you were the one waiting in the cold rain.

Jimmdean
Aug 8, 2007, 08:41 AM
The main issue I'm currently juggling is my love for Mac software and the ability to build a 24" PC that would outperform a iMac by close to three times at the same price.

I used to think like that, but you really have to change your way of thinking. The iMac is really so unique that you just can't compare it to regular PCs. Even if you were running Windows on it, the form factor and coolness of it more than make up for the perceived performance hit (not to mention the complete lack of a tower).
That said, you also have to migrate away from the idea that mathmatical superiority in some way leads to a better computing experience - that is an utter fallacy that Microsoft has been trying to get people to buy into for 2 decades now.
There is really only one reason not to buy one of these iMacs, and that is heavy gaming. If you only game lightly or don't game at all, you will enjoy an iMac immensely...

johnee
Aug 8, 2007, 08:43 AM
Its good to see apple doing something with the computer line.
I mean, it's not all iphones and ipods....

hey, that's a pretty good song :

Its not all iphones and ipods...
the sun will come out again one day
its not all iphones and ipods...
I'm sticking with apple... hooray!

For I seriously doubted the masters
cause all of their focus was taken awayyyyyyyy:
they came out with a new phone and some ipods...
and i pointed to my 'puter with a "hey!!!"

and then SJ looked at me and said "son, we're not through... I have one more thing...."

(SJ singing and dancing: )
Its not all iphones and ipods...
the sun will come out again one day
its not all iphones and ipods...
We're doing stuff to the mac... hooray!

MrCrowbar
Aug 8, 2007, 08:52 AM
The main issue I'm currently juggling is my love for Mac software and the ability to build a 24" PC that would outperform a iMac by close to three times at the same price.

Average 24" displays are not that cheap. There are cheap ones, but seriously, you don't want that. The ones in the (1st gen Intel) iMacs aren't bad at all.

I agree the iMac is not that much of a desktop computer in terms of performance. At least it has a desktop CPU (but with laptop RAM...). Think of it as a nice, quiet (can't stress that enough) laptop with a big ass screen. To me, having a quiet computer is important. What would you use super performance for anyway? Get a cheap Dell and pimp it out if you're a gamer. 3D editing? Get a bunch of Mac Pros. Need something to encode your movies for your iPhone/iPod? Elgate has that neat USB thingie for 100 bucks that does it 3-4 times faster than your CPU.

Leopard is one great step ahead of Tiger in terms of performance and sheer speed. Just wait until October.

spine
Aug 8, 2007, 08:56 AM
Does anyone know - can I publish my dotmac galleries to my own URL?
Or will I need to link it from my iWeb site?

MrCrowbar
Aug 8, 2007, 09:07 AM
I used to think like that, but you really have to change your way of thinking. The iMac is really so unique that you just can't compare it to regular PCs. Even if you were running Windows on it, the form factor and coolness of it more than make up for the perceived performance hit (not to mention the complete lack of a tower).
That said, you also have to migrate away from the idea that mathmatical superiority in some way leads to a better computing experience - that is an utter fallacy that Microsoft has been trying to get people to buy into for 2 decades now.
There is really only one reason not to buy one of these iMacs, and that is heavy gaming. If you only game lightly or don't game at all, you will enjoy an iMac immensely...

Couldn't have said it better. I loved my intel iMac; quite, elegant, powerful enough. There are mathematically better PC out there, but it's not as far as enjoyable. Kinda like a rally car and a Lexus hybrid. The rally car has awesome acceleration and can do laps in record time. But the hybrid is nice and quiet, no gears to shift, entertainment system, leather seats, air conditioning etc. it's just more comfortable. The rally car is cool for your occasional racing, but the other one is nicer for day-to-day transit. Back to computers: the $2000 gaming PC is great for occasional gaming, the 24" iMac is a joy to use every day.

grouse
Aug 8, 2007, 09:26 AM
so where did it go?






is it now in the back row?

Nepenthe
Aug 8, 2007, 09:37 AM
I think it's hilarious that "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" by the 'Stones was playing during the opening of the video for this event. It's very fitting when you think about how much whining goes on after these Apple product announcements.

raccoontail
Aug 8, 2007, 09:39 AM
I bought the new 24" iMac yesterday to replace a five year old home PC which was still serviceable but having video card problems recently. I've had a 17" powerbook for years, so I'm not a "switcher." The Apple store had both new and old iMacs on display so I was able to compare to compare them side by side. The new ones are very nice looking, but not a radical update from the previous design. It coordinates very well the iPhone, and yes, the general black/silver color scheme will blend in well with most stainless/black kitchen appliances.

Keyboard: Good feel, quiet, I love the assigned function keys, and the extra USB port is very handy for plugging in a camera, etc.
Mouse: Not updated and it's already in a drawer as I use a trackball.
Screen: Most of the glare on glossy screens is only visible when viewing from an angle. While I think this is a big problem with the macbook (a coworker has one and I can't stand the screen), the 24" screen is so large you can't help but sit directly in front of it, and then the glare is not much of a problem and it looks really vivid.
Performance: Hard to tell as I haven't made it do any really heavy lifting, but so far it feels snappy. I wish it had come with 2gb of RAM, but 1 is not bad if you aren't running windows and 3rd party RAM is not that expensive.
.mac: When .mac can sync my iPhone calendar/contacts over the air, then I might consider it. Until then I don't' see the value.
Software: A coupon towards Leopard would have been nice. Then again I haven't seen any "killer apps" in Leopard that make it a must have right away, so I have no problem waiting until early '08 when the inevitable initial bugs will be patched. iLife and iWork '08 are killer apps, and both are really fantastic. They were definitely the biggest news of the day.

nbhms
Aug 8, 2007, 09:49 AM
Yeah, I know GPU is integrated on the Mac mini - what I really want is that mythical mini-tower ;-)

And I understand on the choice thing, but there is no reason they couldn't make a minitower as on online and Applestore (where there are knowledgeable representatives to give direction) only item and the Best Buys and Targets get the iMacs etc.

And the reason I want Firewire 800 and memory is for VMWare - VMWare is intensive on memory and disk access, and not so much on CPU for what I'll be doing. So a Mac Pro is overkill, mini is not enough, and I just hate tying myself in to an iMac. I've always managed to make my previous computers last 7 - 10 years+, and tying myself to a non-upgradable screen and GPU is going to make that very unlikely.

The wait for choice continues.

Oh, and I'm really getting tired of the "If you love OSX too much, get the high end stuff and add peripherals." line. That's going to run me at least $1000 extra if not more. I wish Apple would quit taking advantage of it's loyal following that way and offer a real solution. And while it may make business sense for them now, I think in the long run it will hurt them.


4 GB RAM would be feasible I guess, but upgradable GPU is a no go since it's an integrated chip for size and heat reasons. It's perfectly fine for 2D graphics and hight def Video playback. Firewire 800 doesn't make much sense for consumers. It makes sense for people having a High Def camcorder that has FW800 output. The mini just doens't have the horsepower to handle (edit, reencode) high def material in a not frustrating way anyway. That's what iMacs are for. Especially now, the iMacs are a far better deal than the minis. I'd buy a $400 2GHz Mini right now.

Choice is actually bad if there's too much of it. You know what you want, but a lot of people actually go to best buy or whatever and let non tech savvy people give them advice what computer to buy because there's just too much choice. The dell online store is horrible, even if you know exactly what you want. You have to customize different systems to your liking because the price is different (for the same thing, from the same store). I'd personally go for the low end 24" iMac once leopard is out. It comes with one 1GB SO-DIMM so I can take any off the shelf 2GB SO-DIMM and put it in the second slot. I didn't waste money like if there were 2 512 SO-DIMMs in there.

If you want choice, build your own PC and put your chose operating system on it. OSX is too integrated with the Mac hardware to make sense on a homebrew system. If you love OSX too much, get the high end stuff and add peripherals.

mikes63737
Aug 8, 2007, 09:58 AM
Does anyone else find this kinda funny?

sishaw
Aug 8, 2007, 10:06 AM
What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.

So use memory from Crucial or other third party.

Digital Skunk
Aug 8, 2007, 10:09 AM
The point is this: until you clarify this statement

you are just talking out your ass. What counts as "really good"? How are the current Apple products not "really good"? Can you give an example of when Apple made a "really good" product in the past and how they are not doing it now? What company is currently making "really good" products if not Apple?

If you need clarification on that statement then read the other posters replies... they say the same thing. Nothing breathtaking... nothing revolutionary... nothing that is typical of Apple products.

(1) No design changes albeit a smoothing over of the iMac that has been long rumored. No drastic changes in the Mac Mini design either. The keyboard got a redesign to the keyboard from the MacBook... okay... that's it. Where are the amazing jaw dropping design changes that we saw with the Power Mac going from G4 --> G5 and the iMac in the same fashion? Glossing designs over is very Dell-ish, which I might add is getting better at making some machines, they still suck, but they are getting better.

(2) The iMac's specs are impressive for me... I know there are a lot of gamers out there waiting to switch that aren't too pleased... they are still looking for user replaceable parts or a MacPro mini or something, but the MacMini update should have been done 6 months ago, and this current model should have had SR in it or HDMI and been called the Apple TV Pro. Other than that is it still a drastically underpowered over priced machine, by no means a budget Mac.

(3) Speaking of MacPro.... umm... where's my update?

(4) Where is the rest of the lineup? Where is my budget all in one Mac for under a grand? There used to be an eMac, then an underpowered iMac, now there is nothing... unless Apple puts it out a few months from now. If i were a switcher I would have to buy the previous version to get an all-in-one for under a grand. They should have cut the Mini from the lineup, introduced the Apple TV Pro (MacMini with 2 HDMI ports, new case, DVD drive, etc) in the Apple TV section priced at $600/$700, and give the thin pocket college students a stripped down 20" iMac.

(5) Cinema Displays still very overpriced... trying to resist saving $800 on plastic Dells... but $800 is a good deal of money.

I am not saying that I was expecting these things to happen, but Apple could have done more like they have done in the past. There would be no reason for a big keynote if he was just showing us something that could have been put up on the website.

the intention was not to sound hot headed, so I hope no hard feelings.

What I don't understand is your statement of Apple getting cheaper prices by using laptop parts instead of real desktop parts. That is quite the opposite.

Added Note: Also, what is that 'cutting cost' thing by not including a real keyboard with the iMac? I did not know the newly designed keyboard was virtual and no real.

And then, in your answer to my post, you said that you care first about software, second about hardware, yet, yesterday's keynote showed a huge advance in software, not so much in hardware, and you are not that happy with the announcement and the poor show on innovation. Maybe it is a matter of opinion since I found the new iMac really nice and price worthy, and the software even more attractive (I already order both, iLife and iWork).

To me, it sounds a little contradictory, but maybe it is just me. So, as I said before, no hard feelings.

There were none taken, it's just hard to judge someone's 'tone' when they are typing replies. It isn't contradictory, but it does seem polarized to me. The software was a good addition, but it was far too late and far too uninteresting after waiting so long. If it were January and these things were out we would be going crazy, but it's August and to me and many other Apple is a year behind. I love iWork, but have steady given up on iLife, both have good updates now, but the hardware is falling apart now. The MacMini, MacPro, and iPod lineup have been neglected or have had very paltry updates.

I am glad that Apple is saving money by shipping and tracking only two types of keyboards but why the hell make the wireless one without the number pad...? Some people use the number pad a lot. Why not update the mighty mouse with it? That's another discussion though. DotMac was a rip off up until now... but I am sure some people will find reasons not to use it.

From the beginning of Apple history the company has been making big strides in the tech industry. Now things are starting to slow down and Apple is starting to loose it's imagination and innovation. The iPhone could have been a contender... but it's being choked by American cell phone practices and a bad service provider. The MacMini was a good concept two years ago but it and the Apple TV share too much to not be combined into one product. When the iMac was introduced Apple kept the eMac as the education machine of choice. They could have kept the base 17" iMac as an option for those that want it and only have it special ordered.

I know Apple has a plan... but Steve is by no means more than a man... and he has made mistakes before... I hope he isn't heading toward one now.

Does anyone else find this kinda funny?

Yes.... very funny.

otispunkmeyer
Aug 8, 2007, 10:15 AM
Negative?

Or just simply not what you want to hear?

Considering you can buy a 1GB module (as in 1 X 1GB module) for ~ $40 retail, the 2 X 512MiB modules that come with a $1700 iMac is like literally worthless.

They can't even put in decent memory in such an expensive computer?

its crap isnt it, the DDR2 667 in my SR MBP has a CAS of 5.... i thought they'd gotten tighter than that now.

MrCrowbar
Aug 8, 2007, 10:19 AM
Does anyone else find this kinda funny?

Yea, I saw that too. Guess there was no need to label the iMac as new since it's front page and looks different than before.

dave-tx
Aug 8, 2007, 10:25 AM
(3) Speaking of MacPro.... umm... where's my update?

(5) Cinema Displays still very overpriced... trying to resist saving $800 on plastic Dells... but $800 is a good deal of money.


I'm hoping for a MacPro update when 10.5 is released - I'm waiting to buy until both hardware and OS are updated. Is there any speculation as to when MacPro will get a rev?

I use Dell 24" displays both at home and at work, and for my purposes they do the job more than adequately. When they're on sale, they're hard to beat.

gnasher729
Aug 8, 2007, 10:25 AM
its crap isnt it, the DDR2 667 in my SR MBP has a CAS of 5.... i thought they'd gotten tighter than that now.

The CAS is five cycles - that is 5/667 microseconds or 7.5 nanoseconds.

Maybe a year ago you had DDR2 400 memory with a CAS of five and it seems it didn't get faster - but it did. With the old memory, CAS was 5/400 microseconds or 12.0 nanoseconds. So the access time _did_ actually get faster.

morespce54
Aug 8, 2007, 10:31 AM
No, I am running my new iMac and I can't see anything to do with my iPhone.

Also, here is the update explanation. "- This Front Row update provides for improved iPhoto compatibility."

that goes with the new ilife...

FF_productions
Aug 8, 2007, 10:36 AM
I don't know if anybody pointed this out but with that Mac Mini refresh, all Macs are now 64 BIT.

Gaelic1
Aug 8, 2007, 10:53 AM
What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.

I just checked at OWC and they have 2gb modules for $119 each. That' makes the 4Gb memory for $238 and you can return the 1 GB module for a rebate.:)

OldTimey
Aug 8, 2007, 10:54 AM
I highly doubt that...blah blah
blah blah
....
Educate yourself before you attempt to question what someone expects in an update. It will save you the embarrassment, because the fact is something could have and should have been done with the Mac Pro.
ROFLZ


first of all: uhh was i talking to you? 2nd: SPARE me the techno-bable. I am in school earning a PhD in computer engineering, so back. off.

I was merely pointing out the overwhelming need for people to whine about updates. I AM POSITIVE that when the new mac pros come out, 45 mm chipset and all, it won't have as nasty a graphics card as the latest pc offering, it will ship with 2gb or 4 gb of ram, and people will ask why it doesn't have 8gb for a 4000 dollar mac, blueray won't be standard, if offered at all, youll still have to pay 70 bucks for an airport card.

EDUCATE YOURSELF on apple trends, and all the whining that goes on in here.

adieu

AidenShaw
Aug 8, 2007, 11:00 AM
The Imac update was stuck back on page 3 of the tech section of this morning's Mercury News.

Kind of embarrassing when Apple's home town daily paper buries the story. (Front page was a story about a patent dispute concerning Ampex.)

Even the Ipod HiFi and Socks made front page....

illicium
Aug 8, 2007, 11:13 AM
Just how easy or hard is it to open the New iMac and add 3rd Party RAM? I remember someone saying you can just remove one screw and open a panel to access the RAM. Is this true or is it more complicated than that??

aristotle
Aug 8, 2007, 11:14 AM
Ok guys, what are you all basing your problems with this new GFX card on? I'm talking about both the base model and the other two models. Where are the benchmarks for the card in OS X under OpenGL? They are not out yet.

Benchmarks in windows with a windows card in Directx using early buggy drivers is not going to tell me squat about how it will perform in the iMac.

There are a few key differences between the PC version of these cards:
- OS X uses a different driver model.
- Macs use EFI meaning the card does not go through a video bios layer.
- OS X uses multithreaded OpenGL which has been proven faster than Directx on the same hardware (see world of warcraft).

I heard the same crap and whining about the MBP with the X1600 and how it would be crappy at playing games. Well guess what? All that stuff you guys said about it turned out to be FUD and bullcrap.

I've played Star Wars: Empire at War (original and expansion) on my MBP in XP at resolutions as high as 1920X1200 with everything except anti-aliasing turned up high. I've also played Age of Empires III in OSX at 1920X1200 with everything turned high except anti-aliasing.

I don't know why my MBP performs so well in OS X and even XP compared to supposed performance you trolls would claim. Perhaps emulating video bios through the EFI compatibility module is actually faster than video bios or maybe the motherboard layout of the macs is more efficient than PC counterparts.

MrCrowbar
Aug 8, 2007, 11:18 AM
Just how easy or hard is it to open the New iMac and add 3rd Party RAM? I remember someone saying you can just remove one screw and open a panel to access the RAM. Is this true or is it more complicated than that??

It looks very much like the "old" iMacs where you unscrewed 2 screws (the screws actually stay in the lid so you can't loose them). I suppose it's very similar in the new iMacs. If Apple says it's user replacable, a 5 year old could do it.

aria505
Aug 8, 2007, 11:22 AM
I use Excel on a Windows computer all the time at my job so I was really curious to see how well Numbers worked.

So I downloaded the trial version last night, and I have to say that I am shocked at how much more productive Numbers is than Excel. I've been using Excel 2007 which is "suppose" to be more intuitive than the original, but I still have to stumble around between all of the different tabs to find what I'm wanting to do.

It's incredible that everything you need to do is right in front of you. The interface isn't cluttered with a bunch of tools that aren't usually needed. It is genius that Numbers is based on the idea that you want to print off your spread sheet, which you usually do. I have to do a lot of work in Excel today, but I can already tell that I will be getting my work down a lot faster since I'll be using Numbers.

I have found a few things that I can not do in Numbers that I do in Excel, but I've already found work arounds for them. "Work arounds" that aren't limiting but are actually a better way to do things. I never thought that I would actually enjoy using a spreadsheet program. :)

Hairball
Aug 8, 2007, 11:26 AM
Just how easy or hard is it to open the New iMac and add 3rd Party RAM? I remember someone saying you can just remove one screw and open a panel to access the RAM. Is this true or is it more complicated than that??

It is not difficult. I recently added 1 gig of RAM to the iMac I bought last year. Remove the screw, open the panel, snap in the memory, replace the screw and panel. That's all it takes.

CJD2112
Aug 8, 2007, 11:28 AM
Ok, so I got iLife '08 for my Mac Pro, upgraded from iLife '06, and now iDVD crashes, on both of my drives, one running Tiger 10.4.10 and the other Leopard 9A499. I deleted the PLIST files on both drives and got to the window for iDVD that let's me choose to create or open a new project, and then it crashes. I deleted the entire suite, all hidden files as well, restarted, reinstalled iLife '08, restarted, repaired permissions and still it crashes. I called Apple but they were of no help.

Any one else having a similar experience? :(

jthrasher
Aug 8, 2007, 11:31 AM
Am I the only one that still can't get the video to load??

njfuzzy
Aug 8, 2007, 11:33 AM
I think that this update is a really positive move, and it came as a pleasant surprise. Watching Apple's recent moves, I expected the new iMac to move the machine away from the mid-range, towards the high-end. (Think Mac Cube.) That would have been bad, in my opinion, so this is a relief.

In the end, they went for an update that lowers the price and ups the specs marginally, basically bringing the machine up to date. They could have added multi-touch, or more high-end components and more RAM, but it would have driven the price up around $2000.

Instead, we have a machine that is a great step up from the previous model, with a pretty bold new style (more evident in person than in photos), that is much more affordable. Well done, Apple.

Hairball
Aug 8, 2007, 11:33 AM
I use Excel on a Windows computer all the time at my job so I was really curious to see how well Numbers worked.

So I downloaded the trial version last night, and I have to say that I am shocked at how much more productive Numbers is than Excel. I've been using Excel 2007 which is "suppose" to be more intuitive than the original, but I still have to stumble around between all of the different tabs to find what I'm wanting to do.

It's incredible that everything you need to do is right in front of you. The interface isn't cluttered with a bunch of tools that aren't usually needed. It is genius that Numbers is based on the idea that you want to print off your spread sheet, which you usually do. I have to do a lot of work in Excel today, but I can already tell that I will be getting my work down a lot faster since I'll be using Numbers.

I have found a few things that I can not do in Numbers that I do in Excel, but I've already found work arounds for them. "Work arounds" that aren't limiting but are actually a better way to do things. I never thought that I would actually enjoy using a spreadsheet program. :)

I have to say that I played around with Numbers and was happy at what I saw. For anything that I will need to do at home, numbers will be more than sufficient. Although numbers was a very nice addition to iWork, I am glad to see that Pages has an upgraded tool bar to include the most important functions needed in creating documents. It's just nice to have everything there rather than modifying the toolbar or opening the tool box and searching for basic word processing tools

lamar777
Aug 8, 2007, 11:45 AM
I love pages. I use it to create brochures pesters etc. What I was really hoping for in an update was iPhoto like printing options. I want to be able to click purchase and have 50 posters delivered to my door. Apple could be making cash on this service just like their photo printing.

So until then does anybody know any good inexpensive web services for printing promotional materials?

morespce54
Aug 8, 2007, 11:53 AM
The reason Steve seemed depressed was because the crowd was completely dead. Do those morons need a neon "Applause" sign? There was zero reaction when the new iMac was unveiled. Really lame, if I were invited out I'd bring banners and air horns to liven things up. Ingrates :mad:

well, maybe they were expecting a little bit more?
I know, the new form-factor for the iMac is pretty slick but what's inside? Not much more then what it use to be (for the average consumer). And for iApps, the new versions are sweet but would you expected less (when they invite you to a Mac-only event)? :confused:

Although i must say that if I was in for a new desktop in October, the new iMac-Leopard-iLife-iWork-trial bundle would be attractive...:rolleyes:

mmm...leopard

Mykbibby
Aug 8, 2007, 11:56 AM
Wow, that keynote video is terrible... considering how good of quality stuff steve is presenting, I'd expect Apple to at least post the keynote in a presentable format on iTunes, or online. That really sucks, I can't watch the keynote now!

nbhms
Aug 8, 2007, 12:22 PM
How did they not move it more to the high end? Sure, they dropped the price on the "still available" models, but you can no longer buy the 17" model, which was the less expensive model. There is no longer a sub-$1000 all-in-one.

I would agree with your statement if they'd done the same update/price drop on the 17" and left it in the lineup. But with dropping the 17" they are definately moving the iMac slowly but surely away from the mid-range. And I'd argue it already is.


I think that this update is a really positive move, and it came as a pleasant surprise. Watching Apple's recent moves, I expected the new iMac to move the machine away from the mid-range, towards the high-end. (Think Mac Cube.) That would have been bad, in my opinion, so this is a relief.

In the end, they went for an update that lowers the price and ups the specs marginally, basically bringing the machine up to date. They could have added multi-touch, or more high-end components and more RAM, but it would have driven the price up around $2000.

Instead, we have a machine that is a great step up from the previous model, with a pretty bold new style (more evident in person than in photos), that is much more affordable. Well done, Apple.

shawnce
Aug 8, 2007, 12:23 PM
Wow, that keynote video is terrible... considering how good of quality stuff steve is presenting, I'd expect Apple to at least post the keynote in a presentable format on iTunes, or online. That really sucks, I can't watch the keynote now!

It wasn't a friggin' keynote folks... a "keynote" is the "main" speech at an event that kicks it off, sets the theme, etc. for the rest of the event (week of WWDC session for example).

Anyway... this was simply a press event to a small select audience held in a small auditorium on the Apple campus. It wasn't a big ticket event like you see at MacWorld or WWDC.

ChrisA
Aug 8, 2007, 12:25 PM
OK so what did we get?

1) iMac, changed the color of the cover from white to metal and did a minor speed bump, Discontinued the smaller size. Removed the anti-glare feature from the screen.

2) iLife The big news here is that they skipped a year. They are calling it "08". I guess the developers took a year off to work on a phone

3) iWork See above. But finally a spread sheet, that's good

Two Thirds of Apple's computer sales are notebooks. I think we can see why. They need to make a "mainstream" desktop computer if they want to sell more.

RealMcCoy
Aug 8, 2007, 12:43 PM
I want Apple to make breakthrough tech like they did in the past... updates that did make your jaw drop. The keynote was boring because everyone expected everything. it wasn't anything new at all, and the design was more of a "Huh" than a "Wow" so people just turned their heads slightly to the side trying to figure out what Steve was trying to do with this new Mac.

Consider this ... if there would not be places like MacRumors ... those improvements made in the new iMac wouldn´t have to compete against those speculations and hypes that bring the people to believe those guys at apple can do magic tricks ! They don´t and they won´t ! It is solid development and being on steriods after visiting "rumor" sites ... how can you satisfy anyone anyway !

Just keep in mind what the magic of the iMac was ! Or do you judge your wife (or life partner) also that harsh and then dump them if they don´t satisfy your fantasies anymore ?

Soundwave420
Aug 8, 2007, 12:54 PM
why couldnt they have just added blu-ray to the imacs? thats the only thing missing from this update. apple is on their board of directors theyre a company that if they put it in their machines standard, they would help blu-ray kill off hd-dvd. im bummed about no blu-ray capabilities. it would have been nice to have a computer that is a blu-ray movie player/burner.

Hunabku
Aug 8, 2007, 12:56 PM
I'm with RealMcCoy -

The updates were good to great. The imac are slick, and affordable and apple is paying solid attention to its mac software again - I'm happy.

On the otherhand l could do what others on this forum would like and throw away those raccoon lookin imac bastards - dumb scary things would be their own tombstones. :apple::eek:

a6rnh
Aug 8, 2007, 12:57 PM
yeah, lets totally **** up imovie.....good call steve:mad:

d-macuser
Aug 8, 2007, 01:04 PM
Couldn't have said it better. I loved my intel iMac; quite, elegant, powerful enough. There are mathematically better PC out there, but it's not as far as enjoyable. Kinda like a rally car and a Lexus hybrid. The rally car has awesome acceleration and can do laps in record time. But the hybrid is nice and quiet, no gears to shift, entertainment system, leather seats, air conditioning etc. it's just more comfortable. The rally car is cool for your occasional racing, but the other one is nicer for day-to-day transit. Back to computers: the $2000 gaming PC is great for occasional gaming, the 24" iMac is a joy to use every day.

Well put. It's always been the nuances that have kept me interested in my iBook. In going over reviews and looking over desktop components, I've really become focused on the technical aspects and the numbers behind performance.

That being said, computing is such a fluent part of daily life that perhaps it isn't just numbers that should be focused on. With the upcoming release of Leopard, the intuitiveness of OS/X and the sheer joy which I've had in using my Mac for the last few years, I think I will find myself buying an iMac in the coming weeks.

My question is this:

What will the upgrade to Leopard require (in terms of uprgrading costs and downloading), and in your opinions, is it worth waiting until late October to pick up an iMac?

Avatar74
Aug 8, 2007, 01:04 PM
Before anyone flames me for this post as trolling or being anti-Apple . . . I've owned Apple since Apple II+. Currently own an Intel iMac and a PowerMacG4. I've been wanting to upgrade the G4 to an Intel Mac for over a year now, but Apple doesn't provide the machine I need/want. I was hoping they'd provide it with this update, but they didn't.

Could you have provided more clarity/specificity as to what you would have liked to see?

I think maybe the "letdown" in this update is not so much about the shiny new exterior, or the internal update or lack of update. It's how this update compares to the refresh that happened when Apple switched to Intel...

I'm worried Apple has found their niche where they can sell a premium device to a select market and make a profit, and are happy there.

Are you also worried that Ferrari will not mass produce machine-made cars instead of their hand-assembled $250,000 cars with custom-molded engines and hand stitched leather?

Ok... that's a slight exaggeration but here's my point: Apple is not and never was in the business of making cheap computers. I think the issue gets confusing because they have traditionally put some focus into the education market with price points better than their usual retail. However, let's be clear that Apple's presence in education owes a lot more to Steve Wozniak than it does Steve Jobs. It dates back to the Apple II... but Apple II wasn't a cheap computer, either. So, many schools (including mine) ended up buying the much cheaper (and illegitimately made) Franklin Ace.

As for Macintosh, Steve Wozniak has had very little if anything to do with that project, from the early 1980's to the present. It has always been a product category with a high price point. To wit, Jobs' initial design criteria for the Macintosh dictated that it should be more "like a Porsche"... With manufacturing processes like zero-draft molding and corner radius requirements defined down to the millimeter, they clearly were not just slapping boxes together on the cheap... nor are they still.

I submit to you that my school paid upwards of $10,000 for a Macintosh IIfx workstation back in the day, for their telecommunications lab.

I submit to you that the iMacs, even the newest ones, are emerging at some of the lowest introductory price points Apple has ever had for an all-in-one with monitor included... and the monitor that's included is the most advanced they've ever made.

I submit to you that the displays that Mac uses, which are SWOP-certified, are so expensive that pairing them with a cheap Dell or Compaq would produce a package more expensive than the newest line of iMacs (especially once you even out all the other features for an apples to, well, Apples comparison).

Apple's highest priority with Macintosh has always been industrial design... not low cost. The truth is that experiments like the mini have only confused this branding strategy and that I think is one of the reasons Apple seems to be distancing themselves from it.

Apple is a brand that is associated with high quality, industrial design... and it is from THERE where this sense of "status symbol" has emerged. Brands like Lexus are a different story... Lexus manufactured their credibility by slapping a different badge on what were essentially $55,000 Toyotas. Mercedes-Benz on the other hand built credibility over the past 100 years of car manufacturing... and then they blew their credibility by trying to make "economical" Benzes and by acquiring Chrysler... an association that didn't help them in form, substance, or brand psychology.

The idea of Apple as a "status symbol" didn't emerge simply out of cool marketing.. though Chiat/Day's genius certainly hasn't hurt their image. It comes because Apple makes cool stuff with great industrial design... and doing so isn't cheap. Can you imagine Dell making an iMac, the materials they'd use and the cheap assembly and the clunky form factors (picture a manual tension knob on the swivel joint of the display, and plastic everywhere).

But let's look at another issue... branding. In case you haven't noticed, for the past ten years at least if not more, Apple hasn't kept on lower models and reduced their price points while introducing newer models. To avoid product cannibalization (that is, the presence of one similarly-featured model eating into the sales of another), they're very careful about their product lines...

What happens almost every single time a product change comes along is this... the new products with feature upgrades entirely replace yesterday's model lineup at the same or slightly higher price points. Yesterday's models are not kept on at a reduced price... Check it out, you'll see this is nothing new for Apple. It's been their strategy since well before the Mac Mini came along.

Now, regarding the Mini... that's a different class of computer entirely... and it's a sort of experiment that I gather isn't a big winner for Apple. So be it. But within a product class, Apple keeps about 2-3 models and does exactly as I said... they bring in newer models with upgraded features/design at the same price points and take the old ones off the shelf entirely. Again, nothing new.

Granted, not everyone can afford an iMac... but it's not a utility like electricity, or a necessity like shelter. Computers are a luxury... mind you I'm not a neocon ultracapitalist and I don't defend the corporations that knowingly abuse the consumer. What I do advocate is consumer awareness, and part of that awareness includes understanding the difference between necessities and luxuries.

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari... but does that mean that Ferrari should start producing mediocre cars just so they can be affordable? What would then be the point? What would the Ferrari name then represent if it resigned itself to building cars that are mechanically no better than Ford? Let's be honest and say that the ulterior motive of a consumer urging Ferrari to do so is because the consumer wants to be able to say they own a Ferrari. Whether you're rich or middle-class or poor, that isn't a good reason.

Granted, you're seeing the issue a little differently. I don't think you're just desiring to own an Apple for the sake of owning an Apple. I think you believe that it is possible for Apple to make an appealing computer that is affordable to you. So what, though? Has Apple somehow wronged you because they chose to stick with a business model that has worked for them and produced a very high degree of confidence and satisfaction in their brand overall? Granted, Apple made a $1000 iMac... but regardless of size, it wasn't the same materials or specs.

Notwithstanding what's down the road... Consider the product cannibalization issue. Why is Apple eliminating anything smaller than a 17" iMac? One reason may be due to the fact that larger displays are getting cheaper. Another reason may be due to the fact that there are 17" portables out there.

This is a very important consideration because very soon, Apple is going to be putting tremendous focus on their portables... iPhone is the "toe in the water" experiment. It seems like a flagship for a new product category, but it isn't. Every time Apple goes into a new product category, they don't whip out their flagship concept after they've tested smaller concepts with lesser features on the market to gain feedback and insight into what that flagship should be.

In the case of the ultra-portables, there's lots of evidence they're creating a new class of sub-notebook computers with communications platforms of one kind or another... be it EDGE, Wi-Fi, HSDPA, WiMax, whatever. Under the new paradigm, the portables have the potential to cannibalize sales of the desktops, because people are using portables as their primary more and more... the exception is in the case of towers like Mac Pro because there's an expandability issue there that cannot be surpassed for certain necessary applications like video post-production.

However, outside of that professional application, there seems to be waning interest among the average consumer in expandable/upgradable computers because the cost of piecemeal upgrades is now substantially more expensive than simply waiting a year or two for an entirely refreshed product with advanced features all around.

With use of portables and use of mobile internet access growing like never before, products like iMac are now at greater risk of cross-cannibalization with laptops and other portables... so what I'm figuring is that there's actually a couple of things going on here:

1. Apple has given consumers a larger screen for the price of the 17".

2. Apple is avoiding cannibalization of the 17" Macbook Pro, which is especially risky since it's likely a 17" iMac in today's lineup could be used in place of a 17" Macbook Pro and at a much lower price which gives some people less incentive to look at the 17".

The second point is not a consideration so much from the consumer side, but both are considerations from the Apple side.

What isn't known and may be a possibility is that Apple may be gearing up to produce a 17" Mac that is neither a laptop nor a desktop.

To close on the original issue... If the purpose of your argument was driven by your desire to own an Apple (regardless of what you say, you don't absolutely NEED to own one), and the reasons for doing so involve at least some of the things that make Apple as desirable as they are... then if Apple starts making cheaper machines so they can be more affordable doesn't that largely negate one of the biggest reasons why anyone (you included) would want to own one in the first place?

Hunabku
Aug 8, 2007, 01:06 PM
yeah, lets totally f!ck up imovie.....good call steve:mad:

As long time video editor and extensive user of Final Cut i've converted many imovie users to Final Cut and Final Cut Express -> why because imovie is way more difficult to use PERIOD. Even for simple stuff - after an hour or so of orientation all my clients/friends were very happy about switching.

My point is you can't f!ck up imovie - it already is! Actually the absolute worst piece of software in iLife - i can't believe it got any praise at all.

Padriac
Aug 8, 2007, 01:39 PM
If you need clarification on that statement then read the other posters replies... they say the same thing. Nothing breathtaking... nothing revolutionary... nothing that is typical of Apple products.


Great design is not drastic change.

The theme of all your problems is that Apple didn't change "enough". For example you're mad they didn't update the mouse... to what? Aluminum? Do you realize how hard and expensive it would be to make the mouse out of aluminum. It's not a bunch of flat sheets with subtle curves... it's basically one big curve. It still matches the keyboards (which still have white plastic keys). Many people claim that Apple changes things "just because" with no good reason. Yet, here you are complaining they don't do it enough.

Apple has a very definite design that they have been working toward: Minimalist and functional. The changes are getting less drastic because you can only get so minimal until you have nothing left. The iMac is an example where they've kind of changed things arbitrarily (color, materials) to make it "new" because there isn't much they can do otherwise. At this point, they would need to "add" things in order to change their products. This is not something that is likely because a) it goes against their philosophy and b) design at that point becomes much more subjective (like sculpture) where just as many are sure to hate it as like it.


Your budget all-in-one Mac for under a grand... why do you want this when you already admit that the last time apple did this it was "underpowered". A macbook is $100 more than a grand and a new iMac is $200... not really a dealbreaking difference in my book.

There will never be an "AppleTV/Mac min pro" because nobody would buy it. I know there is a vocal minority who are interested, but you're losing sight of the bigger picture. Sales on things like this would be a blip... easily outclassed by the iMacs they are offering now. Same goes with the minitower. Fact is, basically nobody "upgrades" computers anymore. Only a small niche at this point (hobbyists and gamers). Apple is much smarter than making a product that i knows will not sell well.

The mac mini and AppleTV being combined into one product may be the worst suggestion ever. Completely misses the point of both products. I would not buy an media center product that required me to use a desktop-level OS for even a second... the whole point of the AppleTV is to get rid of that.

You also complain that the iPhone is not revolutionary because of AT&T. Are you for real? 1) the two have nothing to do with each other when it comes to Apple's design. 2) Every provider sucks. If this thing wasn't on AT&T they would have maybe gained somebody else but they would have lost me. Sprint's coverage is a joke, Verizon is overpriced, etc. The only "perfect" move Apple could have pulled was to be on every carrier, but we all know there are many factors making this impossible right now. Again: not Apple's fault.

If you can't recognize the revolutionary aspects of the iPhone you've lost all credibility when judging the rest of Apple's line (IMO). And your whole "I would have liked this if it hadn't been delayed from a release date that never existed in the first place" logic is just dumb.


Two Thirds of Apple's computer sales are notebooks. I think we can see why. They need to make a "mainstream" desktop computer if they want to sell more.

Actually, no, we can't see why. How are the mini and iMac not "mainstream" desktop computers. Are you referring to price? I'll go you one better and say this: the iMac is the most mainstream desktop computer every made, since inception and to this day.

Frisco
Aug 8, 2007, 02:02 PM
Avatar74,

Very well put. Finally someone who understands the business world!

Darkroom
Aug 8, 2007, 02:12 PM
why couldnt they have just added blu-ray to the imacs? thats the only thing missing from this update. apple is on their board of directors theyre a company that if they put it in their machines standard, they would help blu-ray kill off hd-dvd. im bummed about no blu-ray capabilities. it would have been nice to have a computer that is a blu-ray movie player/burner.

i assume they didn't add blu-ray because... well, because blu-ray is a big fat joke!... optical discs are becoming obsolete, especially an optical disc that costs like $20 for one... honestly, how pissed would you be if there was a write-error during a burn?

kddpop
Aug 8, 2007, 02:30 PM
I love pages. I use it to create brochures pesters etc. What I was really hoping for in an update was iPhoto like printing options. I want to be able to click purchase and have 50 posters delivered to my door. Apple could be making cash on this service just like their photo printing.

So until then does anybody know any good inexpensive web services for printing promotional materials?

vistaprint (http://www.vistaprint.com)

do be careful though...they will fill your inbox with spam...just use a junk mail account to sign up.

but they are cheap and timely and the work i have gotten from them looks great.

hth,
~kyle

kddpop
Aug 8, 2007, 02:45 PM
so where did it go?
is it now in the back row?

good question. its not listed on the imac page.
hmm

~kyle

shawnce
Aug 8, 2007, 02:58 PM
good question. its not listed on the imac page. The new iMacs still include an Apple remote.

b3beater
Aug 8, 2007, 04:14 PM
I don't know if it's directly mentioned in the keynote but is everyone aware that iMovie from '08 wont work in a G4? I know I wasn't when I went out and purchased it today.

iPhoto and iWeb have some nice new improvements but all in all I'm a little bugged by the fact the iMovie is no longer supported on my dual 1.42 G4.

Quixcube
Aug 8, 2007, 04:47 PM
Sorry for the big block quote, but I found this interesting. It might be a factor in Apple's choice of the 2xxx stuff from ATi. This is from ATi's site, describing under windows how the new UVD and Avivo stuff included in the 2400 and 2600 (but not 2900) series do big time hardware speedups with H.264, both decoding and encoding. Encoding interests me most because 90% of the waiting I do on my Mac is waiting for video to encode. Anyone know if Apple is taping this to help out with its encoding video for ipod, iPhone, Apple TV and OS X video apps in general? From what I could see, Nvidia isn't doing this level of hardware support yet in the 8XXX series, and certainly didn't in the 7xxx series.


"ATI’s Avivo Video Converter can take a 30 minute recorded show, and convert it into a format playable by an iPod in less than 5 minutes. It can cut the conversion time by 80% or more. When compared to competitive solutions, the Avivo Video Converter easily beats them. This means you’ll be watching more, and waiting less.


Easily accessible through ATI Catalyst™ Control Center
The Avivo Video Converter greatly simplifies the process of converting videos from one format to another. A wizard found within Catalyst Control Center enables even a novice user to quickly and easily transcode their videos. Simply select the input file format, the output format and quality level, and file location for the new transcoded video files—the Avivo Video Converter does the rest.

The Avivo Video Converter accepts almost any video file format as a source, and outputs to many different file formats including MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4/DivX, WMV, H.264/AVC™*, and more. Compared to conventional conversion file methods, the Avivo Video Converter cuts total transcoding time by up to 80%, making it the new benchmark for high performance transcoding.


H.264 support
The Avivo Video Converter also supports the H.264 video format; a next-generation video compression technology that is becoming the leading global standard for mobile devices, broadcast devices, satellite technologies, and beyond. H.264 is the most efficient codec at compressing video, yielding both the highest quality and smallest file size for interoperable consumer and professional products ranging from mobile phones to HDTV."

bousozoku
Aug 8, 2007, 04:48 PM
I went to an Apple store a few hours after the announcement and was surprised to see no new iMacs, no iWork '08, and not much but iLife '08.

I travelled to a second Apple store, which is only about 20 minutes away (what were Apple thinking?), and bought iWork '08. It seems a solid upgrade and Numbers will be more than just a competent spreadsheet once they get some real feedback, as with Keynote and Pages. It works now but I'm not very trusting until the patches come about 5 weeks from now.

Still, you can do most anything that you need to do without AppleWorks.

I managed to crash Pages by creating a Office 2007 document with NeoOffice and trying to open it with Pages. I wonder if I could crash Office 2007 with it. :cool:

The iMac is an interesting change. I don't hate it but I don't really like it, either. Hiding the chin by adding the black just reminds me of a cheap mobile phone or some other cheap electronics. The single white was elegant. However, the hardware is sound, if not enthusiastic. Is the Core 2 Duo Extreme with the ATI HD 2600 Pro a good gamer? That's what I'd hope but I'm not convinced.

suneohair
Aug 8, 2007, 10:22 PM
ROFLZ


first of all: uhh was i talking to you? 2nd: SPARE me the techno-bable. I am in school earning a PhD in computer engineering, so back. off.

I was merely pointing out the overwhelming need for people to whine about updates. I AM POSITIVE that when the new mac pros come out, 45 mm chipset and all, it won't have as nasty a graphics card as the latest pc offering, it will ship with 2gb or 4 gb of ram, and people will ask why it doesn't have 8gb for a 4000 dollar mac, blueray won't be standard, if offered at all, youll still have to pay 70 bucks for an airport card.

EDUCATE YOURSELF on apple trends, and all the whining that goes on in here.

adieu

Sorry, I am indeed educated and my proposition for the Mac Pro was very realistic. And it isn't $4000. It is $2500. I don't care about blu-ray. I don't care about airport either. So it seems you did nothing but pull crap out of your ass to make a point, which you didn't do very well.

Trends? What trends? And it was far from a "whine." It was simply me saying what I would like an update. And informing people (because they don't know a damn thing about the Mac Pro for whatever reason) that an update is possible and should have happened.

Saying you are going to school for a PhD makes me no difference. You could be a bum on the street with a laptop, who cares. Credibility means nothing over the internet. I am surprised you haven't learned that.

EDIT: Also, since when does an open forum offer the luxury of discussing with one person? If you want to have a chat with someone give them a call or PM them. Don't complain about me responding to an open post. Second, I just noticed the huge "ROFLZ," PhD huh? You have to be kidding me.

Soundwave420
Aug 8, 2007, 10:41 PM
i assume they didn't add blu-ray because... well, because blu-ray is a big fat joke!... optical discs are becoming obsolete, especially an optical disc that costs like $20 for one... honestly, how pissed would you be if there was a write-error during a burn?




if blu-ray "won the war" with hd-dvd then the price of blu-ray would drop and they would be as cheap as dvds so i wouldnt care.

BigJakeA
Aug 8, 2007, 11:40 PM
Will iLife '08 come with Leopard? I know they both come with new macs but what about us that are going to be updating both.

mcron
Aug 9, 2007, 12:01 AM
would iLife '06 get updated to '08 on old macbooks?

----------------------------------------------------
13.3" 2.16 GHz 1Gb 120Gb super-drive

nbhms
Aug 9, 2007, 08:08 AM
Could you have provided more clarity/specificity as to what you would have liked to see?

Minitower with 1 PCI-E slot, upgradable GPU, 4GB RAM max, 2 3.5 drive bays, 1 5.25 drive bay, firewire 800, desktop Intel x64 chipset (not xeon).

Did I expect to see it? Not really, but I was hoping for movement in the Mini or iMac line that would have gotten closer to that. For example, make a high-end mini with the iMac components (which would give me most of my list above, minus the PCI and bays). Yes there would be heat from the GPU, but that could be solved. That would be a compromise I'd be happy with. I don't like forcing a monitor upgrade with a computer upgrade.

As you say, it's not as big a market, less likely Apple will cater to it. My personal opinion is that market is larger than people think, and would lead to more Windows switchers, but that is strictly my opinion and have no facts to back it up (other than anecdotal evidence gathered as an IT Professional).

They could save money on development by offering a single CPU Mac Pro or re-use the Mac Pro case and use the Core 2 Duo desktop chipset with less expensive memory. But as you say, Apple obviously doesn't see enough of a market market there to justify dev. Or they are worried about canabalizing iMac sales.


Are you also worried that Ferrari will not mass produce machine-made cars instead of their hand-assembled $250,000 cars with custom-molded engines and hand stitched leather?

No, and I understand your point, but I don't think your analogy applies cleanly. My personal reason for buying Apple/Mac has NEVER been their "industrial design" or "status" or brand or to "say I own a Mac" (as a matter of fact most of my IT colleagues mock me for owning one). It has always been because I thought their OS was supperior and they used quality electronics. My computers have always been tools, not pieces of furniture or status symbols. If it's a quality OS with quality internals, I could care less if it sat in a flat grey or beige box under my desk. I care much more about the design and quality of the OS than the box it's in.

I submit to you that my school paid upwards of $10,000 for a Macintosh IIfx workstation back in the day, for their telecommunications lab.

Yes, I remember my dad paying $8000 for a IIcx for me for college (money he'd saved up for my for college, and I ended up not needing because of scholarships/grants).

I think you believe that it is possible for Apple to make an appealing computer that is affordable to you. So what, though? Has Apple somehow wronged you because they chose to stick with a business model that has worked for them and produced a very high degree of confidence and satisfaction in their brand overall?

Yes, I believe they could. Do I think they have wronged me? No, they can do whatever they want. It just dissapoints me. I'm not whining either, just saying I wish Apple made the machine I want to buy. If they don't, they don't, and I spend my money somewhere else or make a compromise. That's life. I agree with you this is a business model that obviously works for them. It's just my personal belief that they could expand market share by making the machine I want. And that would make me happy for two reasons: I'd get the machine I want, and it would put more pressure on the Wintel crowd - and competition is good for consumers and innovation. But as I said, it's just my opinion and not share by everyone (including Apple ;)

To close on the original issue... If the purpose of your argument was driven by your desire to own an Apple (regardless of what you say, you don't absolutely NEED to own one), and the reasons for doing so involve at least some of the things that make Apple as desirable as they are... then if Apple starts making cheaper machines so they can be more affordable doesn't that largely negate one of the biggest reasons why anyone (you included) would want to own one in the first place?

You are correct, I don't NEED an Apple. However, I do NEED a computer (to stay in my current line of work and earn money anyway) - so in that respect a computer is not a luxury. I would prefer to own an Apple if could. As I said, I believe Apple could build a less expensive (not cheap, to make a distinction) machine that would still have the Apple quality.

It just seems to me that my current options are: Build or buy my own quality hardware for a reasonable price (yes, you can do that, Apple uses quality parts but does not have a monopoly on quality - especially now that they are purchasing industry standard parts to build their computers) and put a crap OS on it. Or I can pay for a bunch of industrial design and/or compactness I don't care about (lots of room under my desk in my home office) or pay for way more power than I need to get the quality OS I want.

Again, not whining about it, just stating my opinion/thoughts. At the end of the day I'll just decide which compromise is best for me and make my purchase.

Padriac
Aug 9, 2007, 05:45 PM
Minitower with 1 PCI-E slot, upgradable GPU, 4GB RAM max, 2 3.5 drive bays, 1 5.25 drive bay, firewire 800, desktop Intel x64 chipset (not xeon).


Let me offer you what I think Apple's response to your requests is (in relation to the iMac). This mirrors the average computer buying public as well. Essentially, you're asking for *slots* but Apple is concerned with *functions*.

1) PCI-E slot: For what? What do you want to do with it?
2) upgradable GPU: No *mac* games require a graphics card beyond what we already give you.
3) 4 GB RAM max: iMac has this
4) 2 3.5 drive bays: For what? Why can't you accomplish with USB 2.0, firewire 400/800?
5) 1 5.25 drive bay: see above... if you need some extra peripheral, just plug it in. You already said you aren't really concerned about looks, so that can't be the problem.
6) firewire 800: iMac has got it
7) "Desktop" Intel Chipset: 2.8 C2D isn't enough?

I'd say the iMac is capable of meeting most of your needs (depending on what you want those drive bays for). When you break it down, you basically aren't getting an iMac because the GPU isn't that great for new *WINDOWS* games. (The CPU thing I'd put as "minor" as performance gains in real-word applications will be fairly small).

Again, not telling you what you should like, but highlighting that from Apple's vantage they probably feel like all your requests ARE covered by the iMac and the external peripheral world we live in.

nbhms
Aug 10, 2007, 04:17 PM
2) upgradable GPU: No *mac* games require a graphics card beyond what we already give you.

Of course this is true. However, a year or so from now, there will be games that at best will run on these with all settings set to minimum. Currently there is a resurgence of game developers coming back to the Mac platform (and some who never left), and many of them (Epic, id, etc) are bringing some very intensive 3D engines. Go to www.imgmagazine.com or other gaming news site and look back through the archives. Over the last few months there have been some impressive announcements in regards to Macs and gaming, and some of the more popular current and upcoming titles of what you labeled *windows* games will become *mac* games. That is why the lineup in this announcement surprised / worries me. At a *minimum* I expected they would introduce upgradeable GPU memory.

It worries me that this is something that could go bad very quickly if a year or so from now games built with these engines start being released and consumers/switchers find they don't run well on their recently purchased iMac/Mini . . . and unlike the PC they had before, their only upgrade option (for GPU) is a new machine (the vast majority of PCs that use the GPU in the Mac Mini have a slot or two that can be used to add better video at a later date). And Apple ends up with bitter customers and developers that leave the Mac (again) due to low sales. Hopefully I'm wrong.

The same goes for the PCI slot. I don't want anything in it right now, but it gives some future proof to the computer. I have a PowerMac 7600 I bought in 1995 that is still a perfectly viable machine for cruising the Internet, doing word processing, and (very) light gaming. Why? Because there are 3 PCI slots in there that, when I bought it, I didn't have anything in mind for. But now I have OSX running on the machine because the CPU was upgradeable and the 3 PCI slots gave me an ATA controller, a USB card, and an ATI Mac RADEON card. All technologies that either weren't available when the machine was sold or "weren't needed". And before you say it, yes I know Apple makes more money if I can't stretch a computer's life out 10+ years.

And the desktop chipset - only reason there is I don't care to pay a laptop premium for a desktop machine.

For the 5.25 bay, I wasn't clear, sorry. I meant the bay the Superdrive would be in, done in such a way as to be easily upgradable as well. i.e. future blu-ray or HD-DVD player/burner. But as you say one can always be added with firewire.

And you are right, the iMac gives me most of what I want and I will probably compromise on the iMac. I'm just waiting to see one in person and see how the glossy screen works or doesn't work. Reflections on TV screens really annoy me (and can even cause headaches), hopefully as others have stated in this thread it isn't an issue when looking directly at the screen.

And all those others who want mini-towers too can thank me when I purchase a new iMac and Apple releases a mini-tower a month later :D


Let me offer you what I think Apple's response to your requests is (in relation to the iMac). This mirrors the average computer buying public as well. Essentially, you're asking for *slots* but Apple is concerned with *functions*.

1) PCI-E slot: For what? What do you want to do with it?
2) upgradable GPU: No *mac* games require a graphics card beyond what we already give you.
3) 4 GB RAM max: iMac has this
4) 2 3.5 drive bays: For what? Why can't you accomplish with USB 2.0, firewire 400/800?
5) 1 5.25 drive bay: see above... if you need some extra peripheral, just plug it in. You already said you aren't really concerned about looks, so that can't be the problem.
6) firewire 800: iMac has got it
7) "Desktop" Intel Chipset: 2.8 C2D isn't enough?

I'd say the iMac is capable of meeting most of your needs (depending on what you want those drive bays for). When you break it down, you basically aren't getting an iMac because the GPU isn't that great for new *WINDOWS* games. (The CPU thing I'd put as "minor" as performance gains in real-word applications will be fairly small).

Again, not telling you what you should like, but highlighting that from Apple's vantage they probably feel like all your requests ARE covered by the iMac and the external peripheral world we live in.

Avatar74
Aug 10, 2007, 08:29 PM
Minitower with 1 PCI-E slot, upgradable GPU, 4GB RAM max, 2 3.5 drive bays, 1 5.25 drive bay, firewire 800, desktop Intel x64 chipset (not xeon).

Did I expect to see it? Not really, but I was hoping for movement in the Mini or iMac line that would have gotten closer to that. For example, make a high-end mini with the iMac components (which would give me most of my list above, minus the PCI and bays). Yes there would be heat from the GPU, but that could be solved. That would be a compromise I'd be happy with. I don't like forcing a monitor upgrade with a computer upgrade.

As you say, it's not as big a market, less likely Apple will cater to it. My personal opinion is that market is larger than people think, and would lead to more Windows switchers, but that is strictly my opinion and have no facts to back it up (other than anecdotal evidence gathered as an IT Professional).

They could save money on development by offering a single CPU Mac Pro or re-use the Mac Pro case and use the Core 2 Duo desktop chipset with less expensive memory. But as you say, Apple obviously doesn't see enough of a market market there to justify dev. Or they are worried about canabalizing iMac sales.

No, and I understand your point, but I don't think your analogy applies cleanly. My personal reason for buying Apple/Mac has NEVER been their "industrial design" or "status" or brand or to "say I own a Mac" (as a matter of fact most of my IT colleagues mock me for owning one). It has always been because I thought their OS was supperior and they used quality electronics. My computers have always been tools, not pieces of furniture or status symbols. If it's a quality OS with quality internals, I could care less if it sat in a flat grey or beige box under my desk. I care much more about the design and quality of the OS than the box it's in.

But I count the OS as part of the design factors. You can't tell me that the ergonomics and intuitiveness of the user interface have no impact on your opinion of the Macintosh. With the Ferrari example, the engine and body design are instrumental in the user experience.

Even the ergonomics of the case go a long way to the functionality of a Mac... Consider the slot drive, the side mounted ports on laptops, the verticaly-vented iMac case, the use of aluminum as a greater dissipator of heat, the clean and organized intervals of the mac pro, etc. These aren't merely aesthetic design requirements. The effect of form upon function is often dismissed, even by the tech savvy... Especially by the tech savvy, who are too quick to ignore the ways form affects function. This has always baffled me. Form is a huge determiner of usability... Who cares if you have 300 features if every one of them is too rudiculously clunky to be useful and efficient?[/QUOTE]

Pagana
Aug 11, 2007, 09:29 AM
Ok, so I got iLife '08 for my Mac Pro, upgraded from iLife '06, and now iDVD crashes, on both of my drives, one running Tiger 10.4.10 and the other Leopard 9A499. I deleted the PLIST files on both drives and got to the window for iDVD that let's me choose to create or open a new project, and then it crashes. I deleted the entire suite, all hidden files as well, restarted, reinstalled iLife '08, restarted, repaired permissions and still it crashes. I called Apple but they were of no help.

Any one else having a similar experience? :(


Hi there i get the same problem, also with Imovie and Idvd ...and also quick time don't export anymore..the file...
how did you resolve..this??

thanks
a

Digital Skunk
Aug 11, 2007, 11:00 AM
Sounds like typical Apple QC problems to me... the whole iLife 08 thing is just another example of how Apple is slowly turning into Dell. Minor design changes, minor processor upgrades; the only thing that is strictly Apple is the price.

Where has the Apple of the good old days gone? I want it back. :mad: