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MacRumors
Aug 29, 2007, 08:42 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Engadget reports (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone-no-seriously/) on Nokia's iPhone-like phone demo. According to a followup article (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/yeah-about-that-nokia-iphone-it-was-really-about-symbian-s60/), the demo was to show off touch-interfaces on their Symbian S60 platform which could find its way onto any form factor. The iPhone comparison, however, is unavoidable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFKyAMQPbmI




Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/08/29/nokias-new-iphone/)



nismo
Aug 29, 2007, 08:58 PM
stupid nokia

Dagless
Aug 29, 2007, 09:00 PM
That is poor.

'What Nokia always has and always delivers' or something. What? They've always copied Apple?

sikkinixx
Aug 29, 2007, 09:17 PM
well if it works close to the iphone and nokia lets it be on any network then it might not be so bad...

grafikat
Aug 29, 2007, 09:28 PM
It's the entire software interface that makes the iPhone, well, an iPhone,

twistedlegato
Aug 29, 2007, 09:29 PM
I love Nokia! But this is a little too similar:(

zap2
Aug 29, 2007, 09:31 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J0UjU0rtavE

Dagless
Aug 29, 2007, 09:33 PM
Also, isn't it a bit early for iPhone clones?

zv470
Aug 29, 2007, 09:40 PM
I didn't want to say anything about this... but that couldn't be avoided. What b*ll *****. Can't they think of anything original anymore? Obviously not. :rolleyes:

huntercr
Aug 29, 2007, 09:49 PM
Also, isn't it a bit early for iPhone clones?

This shows how amazingly scared phone manufacturers are. I think Motorola share holders should be the most angry about the iPhone... remember Apple originally tried to convince them to go in with them on it.

sonictonic
Aug 29, 2007, 10:01 PM
It's a blatant ripoff!

I used to have some respect for Nokia. Not anymore! :mad:

Stella
Aug 29, 2007, 10:08 PM
I see the Apple fan bois and apologists are out in force.

Every company copies from any one else...

..well, except Apple..

On the iPhone you can't even have your own custom ring tones.

Unbelievably:
you pay FULL PRICE for your iPhone and Apple STILL dictates what cell network you USE!!!!

How Retarded is that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bhouse
Aug 29, 2007, 10:11 PM
iSmell desperation....Apple flavored.

Dagless
Aug 29, 2007, 10:12 PM
Course Apple copies. But this is just taking it really too far. It is an iPhone clone. It doesn't just borrow features or take inspiration from it, it's like looking in a filthy mirror.

Canuck4
Aug 29, 2007, 10:14 PM
Wow, can you say exact copy :D

Stella
Aug 29, 2007, 10:30 PM
iSmell desperation....Apple flavored.

Get real Fan Boi. Nokia have nothing to be scared about.

In Q2 2007 ... Nokia sold 34 MILLION Symbian based phones.. thats not including any other Nokia phones, i.e., 'basic' Series40 phones ( that have more functionality than iPhone, and cheaper ).

And your saying Nokia are runinng scared.

ROTFL.

HELLO. EARTH CALLING BHOUSE.

you and other people need to get things into perspective: Apple are not going to over take / threaten Nokia any year soon.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/5812_346_million_Symbian_OS_handset.php

lorinserbenz
Aug 29, 2007, 10:47 PM
The Fan Boys must have never used an S60 device...
I am excited.. wanna know why? This phone will run the BLACKBERRY software!

I love the Iphone but the email part SUCKS.. Say what you want about Nokia but this phone WILL SELL VERY well.

deasine
Aug 29, 2007, 11:04 PM
I dun think it's nokia... it doesn't really have the "nokia" look to it...

smarquet
Aug 29, 2007, 11:06 PM
Copy write infringement anyone?

Darkroom
Aug 29, 2007, 11:17 PM
oh this reminds me of the late 90s when that "eMachine" (blatant iMac clone) surfaced...

i smell a lawsuit...

donlphi
Aug 29, 2007, 11:33 PM
Get real Fan Boi. Nokia have nothing to be scared about.

In Q2 2007 ... Nokia sold 34 MILLION Symbian based phones.. thats not including any other Nokia phones, i.e., 'basic' Series40 phones ( that have more functionality than iPhone, and cheaper ).

And your saying Nokia are runinng scared.

ROTFL.

HELLO. EARTH CALLING BHOUSE.

you and other people need to get things into perspective: Apple are not going to over take / threaten Nokia any year soon.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/5812_346_million_Symbian_OS_handset.php

Has nothing to do with taking over. It's about originality. You Nokia Fan Boi's keep saying "NOKIA HAS BEEN MAKING PHONES FOR YEARS" but the I can't stop thinking, "Why didn't they come out with something better than the iPhone first?"

I'll tell you why. They aren't about innovation. They are about selling unoriginal garbage (plastic junk) for outrageous prices with the same two year contracts that every other phone gets stuck with.

I know a guy that has a POCKET PC that has hundreds of functions on it. I would even say more functions that the iPhone. I asked him to show me some of them one day. Most of the software on it was "trial" software including the web browser, so he couldn't really show me anything cool with the web browsers. The camera was terrible. It took low quality video (I know iPhone has no video, but Apple wouldn't put something that bad on a phone... it's worthless and the sound is terrible). It did have slingbox, but that had nothing to do with the phone itself, that was all Slingmedia's doing. It had word, but when I turned it on, it was the first time it was activated.

I'm not saying everybody is clueless when it comes to using their PDA (this guy was), but I would say most people don't use all of the features. It's like a single man buying a mini-van with a DVD player in the back seat. When are you going to use that thing?

bhouse
Aug 29, 2007, 11:39 PM
Get real Fan Boi. Nokia have nothing to be scared about.

In Q2 2007 ... Nokia sold 34 MILLION Symbian based phones.. thats not including any other Nokia phones, i.e., 'basic' Series40 phones ( that have more functionality than iPhone, and cheaper ).

And your saying Nokia are runinng scared.

ROTFL.

HELLO. EARTH CALLING BHOUSE.

you and other people need to get things into perspective: Apple are not going to over take / threaten Nokia any year soon.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/5812_346_million_Symbian_OS_handset.php




I never said anything about Apple taking over, nor do I want that. I believe in competition. It only makes products better for the consumer. It's a privilege to have a device most can only desire. How many people have $600 to spend on a cellphone? Not many. You can't deny the fact Nokia has absolutely no originality.

fcpguy
Aug 29, 2007, 11:50 PM
Oh please Stella...anyone who watches this and doesn't think this isn't a blatant rip off of the iPhone clearly either has their head up their a$$ or has an agenda. Nokia and all hand set manufactures are definitely worried about the iPhone, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to copy it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...that being said, common sense would dictate that on some level they are either worried or impressed. You can call people "fan bois" all you want, but nokia is smart enough to know that the iPhone interface is the future of smart phones and since they don't have their own Jonathan Ives to make something better and different they will just follow suit....the real question becomes, how well will the imitator interface with ones computer...my guess is that's where the ball will be dropped!

bhouse
Aug 29, 2007, 11:51 PM
The fact of the matter is, IF Apple never released the iPhone on June 29, 2007, consumers around the world probably would have to wait another 5 years for a product that REMOTELY rivals the current iPhone. Companies like Nokia, LG, Sony Ericson, were way too comfortable with selling the same garbage phones to consumers because they could get away with it. It was easy money for them and required minimal financial investment in technology. Now, with the invention of the iPhone, it has changed the cellphone landscape. It has set a considerable standard for these companies to live up to. Once again, I'm no Apple fan boy; however, I admire a company like Apple for their visions of expediting the product pipeline. Hey, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be commenting on a post like this for another 5 years...

shadowfax
Aug 29, 2007, 11:53 PM
I see the Apple fan bois and apologists are out in force.

Every company copies from any one else...

..well, except Apple..

On the iPhone you can't even have your own custom ring tones.

Unbelievably:
you pay FULL PRICE for your iPhone and Apple STILL dictates what cell network you USE!!!!

How Retarded is that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Good lord, stop calling people fan bois. It's so much worse than even fan boy--for you. Adds so much irony to the comment about "retarded"-ness.

It's like steve Jobs said, quoting another: "good artists copy, great artists steal." That's why Nokia will be so crappy if they pull this. It's not stealing, it's all-out copying. It's taking a Hyundai crapper, putting all Mercedes body parts on it, and then putting the Hyundai logo on it. It's a far cry from buying the mouse from someone who thinks it's a stupid idea, a far cry from adding "fast user switching" to your OS after Windows did (and crediting them with it, I might add)... a far cry.

Every company steals ideas. Silicon Valley is literally founded on it. Great companies steal the right ideas--and then they add more to it, they make them even better, and come up with their own. I haven't seen much of this phone's interface, but I will make a guess--Nokia's copied the iPhone, and made it crappy with a dumbed down interface.

Analog Kid
Aug 29, 2007, 11:54 PM
In Q2 2007 ... Nokia sold 34 MILLION Symbian based phones.. thats not including any other Nokia phones, i.e., 'basic' Series40 phones ( that have more functionality than iPhone, and cheaper ).

And your saying Nokia are runinng scared.

Right. Nokia couldn't care less about the iPhone. They just thought they'd float a clone because they expected it to tank. All that business sense that made them leaders in the market all led them to waste their time and energy duplicating something they couldn't care less about.

Man, I swore I wouldn't take the bait...

Anyway, yes, there's a market for this. It's a concession that Apple's on to something, but they'll make their money underselling Apple through providers the iPhone won't support. It's easy to swallow your pride if it means burping up money...

nagromme
Aug 30, 2007, 12:21 AM
I see the Apple fan bois and apologists are out in force.

...

Unbelievably:
you pay FULL PRICE for your iPhone and Apple STILL dictates what cell network you USE!!!!

How Retarded is that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me guess, you don't like how much people enjoy their iPhones, and it STILL makes you upset as the weeks go by :p

The revelance of you bringing up ringtones and exlusive contracts to this article escapes me, but your name-calling is both logical and persuasive ;)

As you PRETEND not to know:

* AT&T, not Apple, wanted the exclusive deal.

* Plenty of phones have been offered as exclusives.

* With the iPhone's low monthly rates, it's CHEAPER than it's competitors, within 2 years:
http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/28CE05EF-2E0F-4912-A62A-CBAB41E0D305.html

You could be posting what anyone here would say: the iPhone--like other phones--has flaws and strengths. But instead you abandon logic and repeatedly draw from these non-arguments, almost to the letter: http://homepage.mac.com/bhoglund/forumFudsters.html

Your regular pattern of non-sequitur anti-iPhone/anti-Apple posts seems to be very driven by emotion, not logic. Others criticize Apple with logic rather than lashing out with such anger/fear/whatever. Take a page from their book and you'll find a lot more people are suddenly agreeing with your anti-Apple points!

And being such a powerful Nokia apologist leaves you little room to criticize. But remember: nobody here criticizes you for liking your Nokia. It's fine to use whatever phone you prefer, and not be hurt by others who (by some insanity) actually like their iPhones.

zv470
Aug 30, 2007, 01:12 AM
I've just had another look at the video... does anyone else think it's fake? The screen isn't totally in sync with the phone shown.

solvs
Aug 30, 2007, 01:21 AM
Yeah, I don't know, looks pretty similar to the iPhone to me.

* AT&T, not Apple, wanted the exclusive deal.
Not to mention the fact that they went to Verizon, and Verizon didn't want it.

DaftUnion
Aug 30, 2007, 01:41 AM
Just seeing that makes me want to undo ever owing a Nokia phone in the past. That pissed me off watching that because it's a blatant ripoff.

zv470
Aug 30, 2007, 01:49 AM
As the next photo slides across it seems to be rotated slightly. See arrow...

shrimpdesign
Aug 30, 2007, 01:55 AM
MEANWHILE:

IPHONE USER takes his iPhone out of pocket, taps YouTube, navigates to Most Popular and sees the Nokia iPhone video. IPHONE USER puts his iPhone back into his pocket.

IPHONE USER (chuckling to himself)
At least my phone is real.

FADE TO BLACK

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 02:38 AM
Has nothing to do with taking over. It's about originality. You Nokia Fan Boi's keep saying "NOKIA HAS BEEN MAKING PHONES FOR YEARS" but the I can't stop thinking, "Why didn't they come out with something better than the iPhone first?"
Why would they? Nokia's phones have been selling great and Nokia's market share has constantly increased. You don't go messing around with a working system. Now that the iPhone is starting to somewhat be a success it may be time to bring out similar devices. But don't be fooled - you don't design a device like this in six months. I have a feeling the GUI was "inspired" by HaptiTouch technology and the design by Apple.

Again - why go messing around with something that another company has already tested in the market? Same thing was with the Razr design and other clam shell phones.

Apple still is a very small player in the cell phone industry so Nokia, LG and others are keeping their eyes on it but far from scared.

miniConvert
Aug 30, 2007, 02:46 AM
I laughed out lout initially, but at the end of the day the manufacturers always produce clones of each others handsets. Usually Nokia is quite late to the party on this, but I'm glad they realise the importance of the iPhone and have reacted relatively quickly, yet not so quick (LG, cough) that it's obviously a half-arsed effort.

Nokia have recently released Sync software for the Mac, allowing, amongst other things, for Nokia mobile phones to be seen by iPhoto as a camera. If Nokia continues to pay attention to Mac users in the future then I have no problem with them producing Apple-product clones. Apple may have a problem with it, though :p

yoyo5280
Aug 30, 2007, 02:53 AM
I like nokia phones, but this is just, sad.

You think it is multitouch???

koobcamuk
Aug 30, 2007, 02:56 AM
That is poor.

'What Nokia always has and always delivers' or something. What? They've always copied Apple?

Whatever.

I actually really like the look of this phone. Hopefully, 3G and a better camera? Stuff the iPhone - it doesn't even use iSync... ??? :confused:

ebny
Aug 30, 2007, 02:57 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

I would take the phone part from Nokia, the OS, iTunes-powered iPod function and industrial design from Apple and the camera from canon since the elph is the best mini cam.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

your even if it has multi- touch like functions, it won't have mac os or iPod iTunes foe music. It will have boring menu and back-like functions. On the nokia site for the n95 of even says how some carriers will reduce its fuctionality. Apple has complete reign over its partners (when locked).

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

sorry wrote this on an iPhone and the above had typos... Reply to yoyo

dalvin200
Aug 30, 2007, 03:10 AM
if it's running the symbian 60 OS, then forget it..
it's so slooooow and sluggish

PrettyUgly
Aug 30, 2007, 03:15 AM
I would have thought that apple would have a patent along the lines of "accelerometer in a mobile communications device". Can Nokia actually get away with bringing this product to market?

Remember Jobs' keynote back in January? "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."

dalvin200
Aug 30, 2007, 03:24 AM
I would have thought that apple would have a patent along the lines of "accelerometer in a mobile communications device". Can Nokia actually get away with bringing this product to market?

Remember Jobs' keynote back in January? "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."

especially when Nokia admit they have copied Apple's iPhone (http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-phones/news/2007/08/30/Nokias-iPhone-We-Copied-Apple-Says-Company-VP/p1)!!

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 03:28 AM
I would have thought that apple would have a patent along the lines of "accelerometer in a mobile communications device". Can Nokia actually get away with bringing this product to market?
Considering that Nokia had accelerometers in their phones about four years ago (and currently in N95 and 5500 Sport) I think they can "get away with it".

Other phones had it even sooner so it's not Apples invention.

yoyo5280
Aug 30, 2007, 03:29 AM
Apple raised the bar for cellphones, and company s realized that. They would rather be coping the iPhone but still making cool phones then being a cool phone maker but not iPhone like at all.

rolandf
Aug 30, 2007, 03:52 AM
The only good thing about the "Nokia design" is that they have no button. That should be the same for the iPhone, NO button at all, just one clean surface.

Here in Europe I did not have the opportunity to see an iPhone so-far, but it seems to me, that the UI is a little bit crowded with all the icons. According to the demo, it is cleaner for the Nokia. I would prefer Apple would adopt a menu like for front row, with a little bit of eye-candy.

joseph2166
Aug 30, 2007, 04:08 AM
The only good thing about the "Nokia design" is that they have no button. That should be the same for the iPhone, NO button at all, just one clean surface.

Here in Europe I did not have the opportunity to see an iPhone so-far, but it seems to me, that the UI is a little bit crowded with all the icons. According to the demo, it is cleaner for the Nokia. I would prefer Apple would adopt a menu like for front row, with a little bit of eye-candy.

Personally I find the current front row a bit annoying to navigate around - if music is selected but i want dvd i have to spend a little bit of time navigating around the spiral.

As for the button I think its an amazing idea - It's brave to have it after praising multi-touch so much, and seems so obvious that you'll quickly want to go back home.

Matteh117
Aug 30, 2007, 04:14 AM
I would rather have LG's copy, but then again, neither have multitouch or safari so no thanks. :)

They may make copies, but none will be able to offer what the iPhone offers. I'll stick to the original when it comes to Europe. ;)

-Trinity-
Aug 30, 2007, 04:16 AM
Wow! Amazing how Apple fan boys can totally ignore the fact that the iPhone is total rip-off from MyOrigo.

http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Page=1&Id=547

Oh, let me guess... all internet pages featuring MyOrigo gets now DDOS attacked?

This old phone had UI designed to be controlled just with fingers and accelerometer (or tilt sensor or whatever it's called). It also featured browsing through pages/pics by flicking you finger across the screen. So who copied who?!? I don't even like Nokia, but this is ridiculous.

Pretty much every feature in iPhone has been done before. My PDA has Picsel Browser from 2006 and it does same kind of smooth panning and zooming as Safari. Since the day one of touchscreen phones there has been finger controlled applications IF the app was simple enough to allow it. So Apples only innovation is dumbing down every feature in the phone. It just doesn't work for me.

Even my P800 back in 2002 could do all the things that iPhone users are excited about and back then i modded the interface for finger use. I don't remember seeing multitouch in a phone before, but I wouldn't change ability to use stylus AND finger to multitouch. It rules out everything that needs mouse like precision. Try painting these with your finger. http://www.conduits.com/products/artist/gallery.asp
I'm also playing lots of games with my PDA that absolutely need the stylus. Like Age of Empires, UFO - Enemy Unknown, Heroes of Might & Magic, Sim City 2000, Lucas Arts adventure games, etc...

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 04:33 AM
Wow! Amazing how Apple fan boys can totally ignore the fact that the iPhone is total rip-off from MyOrigo.
I posted this to another thread already but here's MyOrigo running HaptiTouch:

HaptiTouch circa 2003 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-FlAg3YYXA)

Santa Rosa
Aug 30, 2007, 04:50 AM
Wow its an iPhone, running symbian, with a Nokia logo on it. Talk about innovation!!!!

The new N81 and N95 have, wait for it, 8GB memory!!!!

Is it just me or have I seen that in a phone somewhere else, maybe I was dreaming or maybe aww yea its the iPhone, coincidence I think not.

Darkroom
Aug 30, 2007, 05:04 AM
Wow! Amazing how Apple fan boys can totally ignore the fact that the iPhone is total rip-off from MyOrigo.

http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Page=1&Id=547

Oh, let me guess... all internet pages featuring MyOrigo gets now DDOS attacked?

This old phone had UI designed to be controlled just with fingers and accelerometer (or tilt sensor or whatever it's called). It also featured browsing through pages/pics by flicking you finger across the screen. So who copied who?!? I don't even like Nokia, but this is ridiculous.

Pretty much every feature in iPhone has been done before. My PDA has Picsel Browser from 2006 and it does same kind of smooth panning and zooming as Safari. Since the day one of touchscreen phones there has been finger controlled applications IF the app was simple enough to allow it. So Apples only innovation is dumbing down every feature in the phone. It just doesn't work for me.

Even my P800 back in 2002 could do all the things that iPhone users are excited about and back then i modded the interface for finger use. I don't remember seeing multitouch in a phone before, but I wouldn't change ability to use stylus AND finger to multitouch. It rules out everything that needs mouse like precision. Try painting these with your finger. http://www.conduits.com/products/artist/gallery.asp
I'm also playing lots of games with my PDA that absolutely need the stylus. Like Age of Empires, UFO - Enemy Unknown, Heroes of Might & Magic, Sim City 2000, Lucas Arts adventure games, etc...

a COMPLETE rip-off </sarcasm>... except for the fact that this MyOrigo phone is as ugly as sin...

Darkroom
Aug 30, 2007, 05:07 AM
Considering that Nokia had accelerometers in their phones about four years ago (and currently in N95 and 5500 Sport) I think they can "get away with it".

Other phones had it even sooner so it's not Apples invention.

agreed, however it's not just in phones... my Canon Powershot SD1000 has an accelerometer built in as well, as i'm sure lots of devices have it also.

mixel
Aug 30, 2007, 05:17 AM
Hmm, iphone-like interfaces seem like the next logical step, you can't really call everything which uses such tech a complete ripoff.. Touch screen with a nice, swooshy interface is bound to look like an iphone.. :/ Everything in the UI has to be made a similar size for touchability, the hardware will largely be the same too.

This looks to me like it'll be good for the iphone line, as Nokia aren't likely to put a low-end feature-set in a high-end phone, so the iphone line might have to beef up its specs and features if the interface is one of the "only" selling points against a phone which does more.

Looking forward to future iPhones much more now. :)

Santa Rosa
Aug 30, 2007, 05:17 AM
except for the fact that this MyOrigo phone is as ugly as sin...

I second that. Hideous is a good word to descibe it but that just somehow doesnt seem strong enough!!!

iLionel
Aug 30, 2007, 05:33 AM
Glad to see Nokia stepping it up, the more companies that catch up with Apple the better, it keeps Apple innovating and in turn the industry will constantly be evolving.

Mac Kiwi
Aug 30, 2007, 05:34 AM
Now Nokia gives Apple even more free Iphone advertising as everyone says it looks like an Iphone/ripoff throughout the worlds media.The same as it was when a lot of news people repeatedly said Vista has a very Mac OSX like interface.


If Apple take some kind of legal action against Nokia,then Apple win yet again in the PR stakes as news of it floods through the media.


I note that Nokia also are also adding a music store,sounds very like Apple are giving them some concern.I would guess they are thinking of how the Ipod stormed the Mp3 market.

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 05:35 AM
I second that. Hideous is a good word to descibe it but that just somehow doesnt seem strong enough!!!
Lets remember that the LG Prada was shown already in the middle of 2006. So if Nokia copies Apples design in about six months then Apple copied Pradas desing in six months.

Everyone copies everyone. There's only so many ways you CAN make a phone that's as small as possible and has as big of a screen as possible.

PlaceofDis
Aug 30, 2007, 05:36 AM
the only good thing about this is that it'll keep Apple on their toes.

-Trinity-
Aug 30, 2007, 05:38 AM
a COMPLETE rip-off </sarcasm>... except for the fact that this MyOrigo phone is as ugly as sin...

You just couldn't come up with better argument? Looks don't have anything to do with this issue. Maybe it was cool looking in 2003, like mullets were cool back in 80's. Ten years from now and everybody will think that the iPhone was ugly as sin and huge as brick.

If the most important thing for you is having cool looking fashion device, then it's ok with me. Maybe you wanna contact those five gay guys on TV, so they can dress you up (do they still make that show?). I'd rather carry a device that gets the job done.

Much Ado
Aug 30, 2007, 05:39 AM
Everyone copies everyone. There's only so many ways you CAN make a phone that's as small as possible and has as big of a screen as possible.

I don't believe the iPhone was thrown together in 6 months from scratch, do you?

OS X
Multi Touch
Safari
iTunes
Coverflow
Rich Text E-Mail

These are long-term ideas that Apple has been working to put on a phone for a while now.

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 05:42 AM
I don't believe the iPhone was thrown together in 6 months from scratch, do you?

No. That was my point. You think the Nokia 'iPhone' was thrown together in about eight months?

stormdrums
Aug 30, 2007, 05:43 AM
nokia obviously copied it.
this news fits into what i read yesterday. The german Balda Company will deliver its multitouch screen to another company than apple, too, maybe it is nokia.

Much Ado
Aug 30, 2007, 05:43 AM
No. That was my point. You think the Nokia 'iPhone' was thrown together in about eight months?

From what i've seen, sure.

Darkroom
Aug 30, 2007, 05:43 AM
You just couldn't come up with better argument? Looks don't have anything to do with this issue. Maybe it was cool looking in 2003, like mullets were cool back in 80's. Ten years from now and everybody will think that the iPhone was ugly as sin and huge as brick.

If the most important thing for you is having cool looking fashion device, then it's ok with me. Maybe you wanna contact those five gay guys on TV, so they can dress you up (do they still make that show?). I'd rather carry a device that gets the job done.

im homosexual already honey, i ain't be need'n those queer eye guys for no fashion tips *snaaaap*.

if everyone followed your logic about only using gadgets and computers that can get the job done, all designers (graphics designers, technical designers, etc.) would be out of the job, and everyone would still have big boxy PCs instead of paying for the more expensive, better looking, easier to use, luxurious macs :)

sex sells honey...

clevin
Aug 30, 2007, 06:11 AM
this is ridiculous, apple has patent for large screen or what?

copy, copy, copy, fanboy style statment is getting way too ridiculous.

Santa Rosa
Aug 30, 2007, 06:14 AM
im homosexual already honey, i ain't be need'n those queer eye guys for no fashion tips *snaaaap*.

if everyone followed your logic about only using gadgets and computers that can get the job done, all designers (graphics designers, technical designers, etc.) would be out of the job, and everyone would still have big boxy PCs instead of paying for the more expensive, better looking, easier to use, luxurious macs :)

sex sells honey...

One vote for the gayest post ever on Macrumors Forum. :D

Stella
Aug 30, 2007, 06:31 AM
Fair enough... however, its the insane comments that people make...
"Nokia running scared..." etc.

Pffff.....


Let me guess, you don't like how much people enjoy their iPhones, and it STILL makes you upset as the weeks go by :p

The revelance of you bringing up ringtones and exlusive contracts to this article escapes me, but your name-calling is both logical and persuasive ;)

As you PRETEND not to know:

* AT&T, not Apple, wanted the exclusive deal.

* Plenty of phones have been offered as exclusives.

* With the iPhone's low monthly rates, it's CHEAPER than it's competitors, within 2 years:
http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/28CE05EF-2E0F-4912-A62A-CBAB41E0D305.html

You could be posting what anyone here would say: the iPhone--like other phones--has flaws and strengths. But instead you abandon logic and repeatedly draw from these non-arguments, almost to the letter: http://homepage.mac.com/bhoglund/forumFudsters.html

Your regular pattern of non-sequitur anti-iPhone/anti-Apple posts seems to be very driven by emotion, not logic. Others criticize Apple with logic rather than lashing out with such anger/fear/whatever. Take a page from their book and you'll find a lot more people are suddenly agreeing with your anti-Apple points!

And being such a powerful Nokia apologist leaves you little room to criticize. But remember: nobody here criticizes you for liking your Nokia. It's fine to use whatever phone you prefer, and not be hurt by others who (by some insanity) actually like their iPhones.

MacQuest
Aug 30, 2007, 06:44 AM
Get real Fan Boi. Nokia have nothing to be scared about.

In Q2 2007 ... Nokia sold 34 MILLION Symbian based phones.. thats not including any other Nokia phones, i.e., 'basic' Series40 phones ( that have more functionality than iPhone, and cheaper ).

And your saying Nokia are runinng scared.

ROTFL.

HELLO. EARTH CALLING BHOUSE.

you and other people need to get things into perspective: Apple are not going to over take / threaten Nokia any year soon.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/5812_346_million_Symbian_OS_handset.php

Lol!

Sounds like we got a NoCryia baby on the forums!

Like I'm supposed to be impressed by nokia's (a years long established cell phone manufacturer with worldwide distribution) numbers for Q2 of this year, a quarter when Apple only had 30 hours to sell it's new product, in a new market, and only here in the U.S.

Apple still managed to sell more than a quarter of a million (270,000) iPhones in that minute amount of time. But it's not just that, it's the dynamics of who they were sold to: many of them paid over $160 just to cancel their contracts with their provider at the time ON TOP OF the iPhone cost and locking into an at&t 2 year contract. Plus, a large percentage of those iPhone buyers were non Apple product or Mac users.

Nokia and all other mobile phone manufacturers have felt Apple's iPhone market penetration verrrry deeply... :eek:

Your argument sound like ... well ... let's see (just to name a few); Creative, Rio, Sony, HP's Media Center division imediately following AppleTV's debut, BuyMusic, m$+Napster, m$+Urge, now Urge+RealNetworks...

Aaah... it doesn't matter whether it's products or services, Apple will CRUSH the competition by either making existing markets better, or creating their own market even when everyone says there is none.

Remember it. Write it down. Take a picture... I don't give a "WHAT?!!!"

:p

:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

spazzcat
Aug 30, 2007, 07:34 AM
Copy write infringement anyone?

I bet there are so many patients on the iPhone and bet this phone has violated a lot of them...

suneohair
Aug 30, 2007, 07:44 AM
From what i've seen, sure.

Spoken like a true apologist! Congrats! :rolleyes:

Really. It is a rectangle people and it has a touch screen. Whoopity doo. *finger twirl* If you don't like it, don't buy it. The chances of unlocking a Nokia are much better since typically they just give you the code. It is more open and while not OS X, my Symbian phone is quite nice and it looks good.

Some people value that over what Apple can offer which is a locked down, closed environment. Get over it people. Most of you speak like you want Apple to take over which is bad for everyone. So just chill. It is a phone.

iHarry
Aug 30, 2007, 07:57 AM
I will always be amazed of how cheap imitators will follow innovators like apple.

I mean, the imac got out, sony tried and still tries to copy it (with some variations), iPod got out, everybody and his mother tried to copy it, iPhone launched, everybody and his mother is trying to copy it.

I don't know if nokia or xyz brand mobile phones are better than iPhone or not, what I do know is that apple paves the way, everybody else follows and TRIES to copy.

Excuse me for saying this but you can have as much 5MP cameras and worthless features as you want, I'll stick with the innovators.

Keep in mind that I'm a techie freak, so I had 4 nokias (n71,n73,e65,n95), 3 Ericssons (k800i, k810i, w880i) 2 blackberries (7310, pearl).

The Only Phone I kept from those is the pearl. Still, not any of these phones holds a candle compared to iPhone. It's all about user experience, interface and innovation. By the time these companies complete their worthless copies, apple will probably have some new innovative "bomb" to throw. That's what leadership is all about...
:)
:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 08:00 AM
I will always be amazed of how cheap imitators will follow innovators like apple.
So when Apple copies it's ok but when someone else makes a similar device they're cheap imitators?

Santa Rosa
Aug 30, 2007, 08:15 AM
I bet there are so many patients on the iPhone and bet this phone has violated a lot of them...

Think that should be posted in the thread about hospital beds. :)

MacQuest
Aug 30, 2007, 08:33 AM
So when Apple copies it's ok but when someone else makes a similar device they're cheap imitators?

When Apple develops or steals, it makes it (whatever "it" is; a product, service, etc.) better.

The problem is that when others try to copy Apple's "it", it's a much worse solution that only looks like the great solution Apple provided.

In the end, it's the end user that either wins with intelligent, intuitive and innovative companies like Apple. Or, loses with dumb, thoughtless, wannabe companies that want OH-SOOO-BADLY to have that Apple "cool" factor and respect. Not only from it's current customers (as can be witnessed here), but also from completely new customers switching often from dominant companies in their fields (like m$ for OS's, dell for computers, Sony for music players, - whatever download service was dominant in whatever country before iTunes was available there, and now nokia for mobile phones).

Has nokia EVER had a product that truly revolutionized the industry that it dominates (for now)?

No.

It just took the same features and put them in new cases with different colors, form factors, orientations, whatever.

Now how about Apple?

Well, nokia's (cheesy) attempt to imitate the iPhone, is in fact the sincerest form of flattery.

I can hardly wait for the reviews to start pouring in about how sloppy nokia's version of the iPhone is compared to the real thing.

THAT will be one of the biggest reasons for people to neglect the (WTH crappy "OS" are they using anyway?) nokia, and go with the Mac OS X based iPhone instead.

Bet on it.

Does anyone really not yet understand that it's all about the OS?!!!

First Mac based computers, then Mac based Apple TV, then Mac based iPhones, and (in a week) Mac based iPods.

Find the common denominator.

mrkramer
Aug 30, 2007, 08:48 AM
If that phone ends up on verizon, and the interface is not crippled like other verizon phones, then I may buy it, since I can't get the iPhone.

xenotaku
Aug 30, 2007, 09:02 AM
copy or original...who cares. The thing will work nearly as well as an iPhone since they are stealing all the innovation anyways. What will the difference be? Oh yeh, it will be unlocked and 3G. Sign me up please.

danny_w
Aug 30, 2007, 09:11 AM
copy or original...who cares. The thing will work nearly as well as an iPhone since they are stealing all the innovation anyways. What will the difference be? Oh yeh, it will be unlocked and 3G. Sign me up please.
Who says they are stealing? It is extremely unlikely that Apple came up with the iPhone all by themselves without some outside help (maybe the concept but not the entire phone), and it is very likely that Nokia provided that outside help. I know that concept will be unpopular on these boards, but so be it.

-Trinity-
Aug 30, 2007, 09:16 AM
im homosexual already honey, i ain't be need'n those queer eye guys for no fashion tips *snaaaap*.

if everyone followed your logic about only using gadgets and computers that can get the job done, all designers (graphics designers, technical designers, etc.) would be out of the job, and everyone would still have big boxy PCs instead of paying for the more expensive, better looking, easier to use, luxurious macs :)

sex sells honey...

Ok. Good for you! You might wanna wait until Apple releases the Totally Gay model of the iPhone. I heard that it's going to be pink with glittering edges.

Some people like to get creative by themselves. I pimped my PDA UI because the stock UI is just horrible. Too bad that you cannot set a big rainbow as your iPhone background. That black background is just... not gay.

SPUY767
Aug 30, 2007, 09:22 AM
Get real Fan Boi. Nokia have nothing to be scared about.

In Q2 2007 ... Nokia sold 34 MILLION Symbian based phones.. thats not including any other Nokia phones, i.e., 'basic' Series40 phones ( that have more functionality than iPhone, and cheaper ).

And your saying Nokia are runinng scared.

ROTFL.

HELLO. EARTH CALLING BHOUSE.

you and other people need to get things into perspective: Apple are not going to over take / threaten Nokia any year soon.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/5812_346_million_Symbian_OS_handset.php

Stella, seriously, stop calling everyone a fanboy at every turn. You do a fair amount of trolling yourself. Besides, this is MacRumors, so I think we can forgive a little Apple bias.

vassillios
Aug 30, 2007, 09:24 AM
how about the guy in the glasses who completely talks over the apple guy? what a piece of work...doesn't even let the guy talk....piece of ****

oh yeah..and in the title...it shoule read "....related...."

ruutiveijari
Aug 30, 2007, 09:25 AM
Has nokia EVER had a product that truly revolutionized the industry that it dominates (for now)?

No.

That's a bold statement to make. So lets begin.

1. Worlds first NMT car phone, Mobira Talkman
2. Worlds first NMT hand held phone, Mobira Cityman
3. Europes first digital switchboard, the DX200
4. Introduced the worlds first digital GSM phone
5. Worlds first GSM phone call was made with a Nokia in Finland
6. Provided the worlds first GSM 1800 network
7. Provided the four first TETRA-systems in the world
...

And that's just up to 1997. I could go on (HSCSD, SyncML, worlds first 3G WCDMA call...)

clevin
Aug 30, 2007, 09:35 AM
I bet there are so many patients on the iPhone and bet this phone has violated a lot of them...

funny apple had to answer so many problem with their own copyright infringement cases itself. (rip off inde artists in its ads, using name w/o reach agreement with its rightful owner, etc)

and since so many people have already called so many other companies' product as "copycats", why I haven't read any cases about apple suing anybody about iPhone?

your "bet" isn't that solid as you think. maybe because apple didn't actually invent that many things as you think...

Squonk
Aug 30, 2007, 09:44 AM
oh this reminds me of the late 90s when that "eMachine" (blatant iMac clone) surfaced...

i smell a lawsuit...


Ummm. Michael Spindler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Spindler) licenced Mac OS to several companies and allowed them to use Apple ROMS in order to create a "mock" clone. They were licensed (and paid a hefty price to Apple) to do so. More info here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clones#Official_Macintosh_clone_program)

darthcoder
Aug 30, 2007, 09:50 AM
It is clear that (if this is from Nokia) that Nokia has licensed the video chipset from Samsung or Broadcom(?) that Apple uses. The demo is showing off the builtin in chip functionality. The disturbing part is the phone actually looks like an iphone (i.e. the physical size of the black parts, etc.)

If this is from Nokia then it could be a problem

kntgsp
Aug 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
Also, isn't it a bit early for iPhone clones?

Ever heard of Meizu? They've been touting an iPhone clone since April.

mozmac
Aug 30, 2007, 10:58 AM
I actually think it's pretty sweet. I love Nokia phones and would love to see an iPhone competitor like this. It's a little too close to the iPhone look, but I would love for them to come out with a phone with similar functionality.

Much Ado
Aug 30, 2007, 11:17 AM
Spoken like a true apologist! Congrats! :rolleyes:


What?

The Nokia does look like it could have been put together in 8 months.

Nothing fanboi-ish there, just a basic observation.

SPUY767
Aug 30, 2007, 11:20 AM
Ummm. Michael Spindler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Spindler) licenced Mac OS to several companies and allowed them to use Apple ROMS in order to create a "mock" clone. They were licensed (and paid a hefty price to Apple) to do so. More info here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clones#Official_Macintosh_clone_program)

What does that have to do with anything. The clone era was ended by Jobs before the iMac was released, and before eMachines copied it.

suneohair
Aug 30, 2007, 12:37 PM
What?

The Nokia does look like it could have been put together in 8 months.

Nothing fanboi-ish there, just a basic observation.

But of course the iPhone could not have been put together in that much time? They fact that they were working on things (namely multitouch) does not mean they had a phone in mind nor a form factor for that phone before seing the LG.

And I don't see how when can judge how long it took to put together from seeing a 10 second clip.

If the Nokia offers more features that are comparable it could most assuredly take off. For every person who loves Apple there *probably* at least 2 who don't (and that is being modest), and those people are ready to buy the first thing like an iPhone just to go against the grain.

inkswamp
Aug 30, 2007, 01:18 PM
I see the Apple fan bois and apologists are out in force.

Every company copies from any one else...

..well, except Apple..

Explain what you mean when you say "copy." You're painting with a very wide brush. When a company takes ideas that already exist and just duplicates them, then it's copying. When you take ideas that already exist and build on them to create something new or take it to its next logical step, then it's not really the same. Do you understand that distinction or are you just trying to cause trouble?

On the iPhone you can't even have your own custom ring tones.

Unbelievably:
you pay FULL PRICE for your iPhone and Apple STILL dictates what cell network you USE!!!!

How Retarded is that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, all those exclamation points really help make your point. :rolleyes:

The iPhone is a first rev from a company that has never made a smart phone before. I'd say it's hardly surprising that there will be some obvious features missing or some serious gaffes. Look at the first couple versions of OS X. 10.0 and 10.1 were almost useless, but look where things have gone. If Apple doesn't address those gripes in the next rev or two of the iPhone, then maybe you'll have a point, but until then, it sounds ridiculous to talk like that.

nagromme
Aug 30, 2007, 03:23 PM
The key factor here (if this is not a hoax) is: it's not available until some time in 2008. (Just in time to compete with iPhone 2 maybe?)

Nokia copied not just in part, not just certain elements, but in a BROAD way. Apple has never sunk so far. All small touchscreen devices will have SOME similarity. That doesn't mean the iPhone copies them all the way Nokia has just admitted to copying the iPhone design.

The iPhone isn't an "obvious design that anyone could have done." It LOOKS obvious AFTER it was done--like so many Apple products--because Apple has some great industrial designers and a great approach to usability and user-centric design.

So why didn't Nokia have this BEFORE the iPhone? Why didn't they show off their TRUE expertise (if they can manage to) by showing off something ORIGINAL that improves on the iPhone design?

Because it's actually not that easy. See also: 2008.

fryingpants
Aug 30, 2007, 03:42 PM
I see this as great for iPhone users. Once there's real iPhone competition from Nokia and others then we will have more features and services available sooner than later.

On a side note, I find it interesting that Nokia's demo is primarily done so with one hand -- and with long fingernails, too.

Darkroom
Aug 30, 2007, 07:28 PM
Ok. Good for you! You might wanna wait until Apple releases the Totally Gay model of the iPhone. I heard that it's going to be pink with glittering edges.

Some people like to get creative by themselves. I pimped my PDA UI because the stock UI is just horrible. Too bad that you cannot set a big rainbow as your iPhone background. That black background is just... not gay.

black is fabbbuullloousss!! *SNNNAAAPPP*

hahahahha

actually, for real... that whole gay-party-fun-boi aesthetic is lame... i'm gay, but i'm not "hand-bag-full-of-rainbows" gay...

anyway, my point all along is that the iphones design is very strong... it's modern (well, some could argue that the whole metal+glass thing is a few years ago), but it's also subtle... being subtle is not always the easiest thing to accomplish, but apple's designers seem to accomplish it time and time again.

MacQuest
Aug 30, 2007, 07:32 PM
That's a bold statement to make. So lets begin.

1. Worlds first NMT car phone, Mobira Talkman
2. Worlds first NMT hand held phone, Mobira Cityman
3. Europes first digital switchboard, the DX200
4. Introduced the worlds first digital GSM phone
5. Worlds first GSM phone call was made with a Nokia in Finland
6. Provided the worlds first GSM 1800 network
7. Provided the four first TETRA-systems in the world
...

And that's just up to 1997. I could go on (HSCSD, SyncML, worlds first 3G WCDMA call...)

My apologies then for not having looked into nokia's history pre-this millenium.

However I did actually mean ground-breaking/game-changing innovations specifically in the mobile phone market in the past 5-7 years.

The bottom line is Apple has just introduced a revolutionary new way to interface with technology on the level of, let's say, if a car company introduced a car that doesn't reqquire a steering wheel.

An actual working car right now, not talking about a prototype knock-off like nokia's.

Your comparisons are equivalent to saying that nokia invented the wheel.

Yeah, but Apple figured out how to roll it.

MacQuest
Aug 30, 2007, 07:46 PM
oh this reminds me of the late 90s when that "eMachine" (blatant iMac clone) surfaced...

i smell a lawsuit...

Ummm. Michael Spindler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Spindler) licenced Mac OS to several companies and allowed them to use Apple ROMS in order to create a "mock" clone. They were licensed (and paid a hefty price to Apple) to do so. More info here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clones#Official_Macintosh_clone_program)

Seriously Squonk, think and/or research before you post.

"In 1999, Apple successfully sued eMachines, whose eOne too closely resembled the then-new iMac's trade dress.[23] The eOne was taken off the market, resulting in huge losses for eMachines."

Apple v. eMachines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_litigation_of_Apple_Inc.#Apple_v._eMachines)

Most of us know about the short-lived Mac clone era that extended under Gil Amelio's "guidance" (or lack therof) to companies like Motorola, Umax, PowerComputing, etc. However, the post you responded to was talking about eMachines' blatantly illegal, non-Apple approved look alike computers of the original iMacs that were marketed a couple of years after SJ (THANKFULLY) killed the Mac clone program.

EDIT:

I see SPUY767 called you on your irrelevant, poorly researched BS before I could -

What does that have to do with anything. The clone era was ended by Jobs before the iMac was released, and before eMachines copied it.

synth3tik
Aug 30, 2007, 11:50 PM
w0w, judging from the video the processor is slow as hell

ruutiveijari
Aug 31, 2007, 12:29 AM
My apologies then for not having looked into nokia's history pre-this millenium.

However I did actually mean ground-breaking/game-changing innovations specifically in the mobile phone market in the past 5-7 years.

Ok. So lets continue.

1, One of SyncML founders and introduced the first SyncML device.
2. First GPRS connection between two countries
3. First MMS capable device
4. First 3G WCDMA call in a commercial 3PPP system
5. First CDMA2000 data transfer
6. First EDGE-WCDMA 3G data transfer
7. First NFC (Near Field Communication) device
...

That's a few from this millenniumn. Nokia invented the wheel, invented how to roll it, call with it, send data with it. Apple invented how to paint it with pretty colors.

MacQuest
Aug 31, 2007, 12:51 AM
Ok. So lets continue.

1, One of SyncML founders and introduced the first SyncML device.
2. First GPRS connection between two countries
3. First MMS capable device
4. First 3G WCDMA call in a commercial 3PPP system
5. First CDMA2000 data transfer
6. First EDGE-WCDMA 3G data transfer
7. First NFC (Near Field Communication) device
...

That's a few from this millenniumn. Nokia invented the wheel, invented how to roll it, call with it, send data with it. Apple invented how to paint it with pretty colors.

You're right.

Nokia has taken a lot of important baby steps, and each step should be applauded because the baby needs to be encouraged so that it can one day stand up and walk.

Meanwhile, Apple has stood up, is already walking, and is now staring down at the nokia phone baby that is holding it's arms up in the hopes to be picked up by, and ultimately somewhat similar to it's senior Apple iPhone sibling, but for now is still just sitting and crawling around in it's diaper filled with number 1 and number 2 "achievements."

Apple has re-invented the stale mobile phone game that nokia was the stale king of. The king was caught off guard by assuming that his kingdom was under his control and not looking beyond his kingdom's walls to see what the "outsiders" were up to.

Apple stormed the gates with a brand new touch input technology, and now the overthrown king is trying to save face by developing a similar looking technology (that is far from being nearly as well implemented across a product line like Mac OS X is in Apple's products now... do you get that it's about the OS yet? ... symbian pales in comparison btw - just drop the "m" from the name and start making sex toys) that will fall flat on it's face even if it were available now like the iPhone is.

nokia might be ready to take on the current iPhone in 2008, but we'll have the 2nd, maybe even 3rd generation (depending on an early/mid or mid/late '08 release for nokia's "LiePhone") iPhone by then.

So I guess we'll see nokia clawing and scraping to catch up to '08's iPhone sometime in '09.

Good luck! (you're gonna need it)

Btw, where's your behind? Oh yeah, Apple's coming to hand it to you as we speak.

That wasn't a joke either.

Once Apple's touch input patents that have already been filed are approved, say hello to patent infringement fines and licensing fees nokia!

-Trinity-
Aug 31, 2007, 02:30 AM
You're right, nokia has had a lot of baby steps, and each step should be applauded because the baby needs to be encouraged so that it can one day stand up and walk.

Baby steps?!? Nokia built the whole infrastructure that the iPhone is build on. Did you know that Nokia makes lot of other things than phones. Like whole mobile network infrastructures. Without Nokia the iPhone wouldn't exist (or it just would be crappy iPod without communication abilities). Apple just took the existing standards, spesifications, components and put them together.

Apple stormed the gates with a brand new touch input technology

WHAT!?! Yeah really brand new. Touchscreens are so old thing in mobile world. Oldest touchscreen phone that I remember was some Ericsson model with black&white screen and it was released in mid 90's. Apple just put bigger icons on the touchscreen. Nothing new there. Car GPS devices had this for years. And didn't you read my earlier post? MyOrigo did the whole finger use, touchscreen, big icons, easy to use, tilt sensor thing four years before the iPhone was released.

Let me put it more clearly: The iPhone is copy of MyOrigo.

And the fluid srcoll thing was also done before apple "invented" it. Apple may be the first one to implement the multitouch, but this is so stupid thing anyways. What are the real benefits of multitouch? To be able make akward two handed zooms? I guess Apple has never heard of scrollwheel. My Phone has scrollwheel right under my thumb and I can make same thing with one hand that requires two hands with iPhone.

What Apple has invented is false advertising with hype. "Full internet" and "5 years ahead". Yeah right...

emotion
Aug 31, 2007, 03:10 AM
Nevermind the fuss over the Nokia concept above.

Nokia have released something many people will choose instead of the iPhone. Particularly in the UK.

Nokia N81:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/28/nokia-n81-shown-up-close-and-personal/

needthephone
Aug 31, 2007, 03:51 AM
The thing people are missing is that up until apple mobile phone GUI have been half baked and difficult to use. I have a nokia 6280 and it is horrible to use. It is buggy ( I am honestly on my third and it still crashes, I am not an apple fan boy, whatever that means, I just want good products that work.) and the mp3 player is virtually useless. I still had to buy a shuffle as this doesn't work for my runs. Nokia are probably the best of the traditional mobile makers though. Until apple raised the bar they could churn out rubbish again and again. I am so dissapointed by my 6280 that I have vowed never to buy Nokia again (or Sony Ericcson, or LG). They have no design flair either either, Nokia's industrial design is horrible until they start copying Jonny Ives that is. I'll keep my 6280 until the iphone comes out over here in Aus. Although I live in Australia the best design at the moment is coming from the UK (where apples ID chief comes from) Have you seen the new Jaguar-gorgeous.

Much Ado
Aug 31, 2007, 05:47 AM
But of course the iPhone could not have been put together in that much time? They fact that they were working on things (namely multitouch) does not mean they had a phone in mind nor a form factor for that phone before seing the LG.

But as was originally said, there 'aint no form factor to copy with just one big screen. That's to be expected.

And of course they were working on a phone, you don't just go and call up AT&T at the last moment and say "Hey, we've seen an LG we want to copy. How about helping us with a phone system?"

And I don't see how when can judge how long it took to put together from seeing a 10 second clip.

Sure, and i didn't judge. But i said that from what i've seen, the concepts Nokia chose to display could easily have been heisted from the iPhone interface, whether true or not. 8 months is a long time.


If the Nokia offers more features that are comparable it could most assuredly take off. For every person who loves Apple there *probably* at least 2 who don't (and that is being modest), and those people are ready to buy the first thing like an iPhone just to go against the grain

It's true, which is why Nokia bothered making this phone.

MacQuest
Aug 31, 2007, 05:59 AM
Baby steps?!? Nokia built the whole infrastructure that the iPhone is build on.

Yeah, but...but... Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity and Thomas Edison invented the first practical electric light bulb... and if it wasn't for them then nokia nor Apple would have had the (blah, blah, blah)... :rolleyes:

This has gone WAY off base now as it's turning into a nokia vs. Apple debate and it really shouldn't be about the companies as they both have done important and innovative things in their respective markets.

This really should just be an iPhone vs. nokia's future iPhone-like product discussion.

Bottom line:
Apple's iPhone is a high in demand (in the U.S. for now, Europe in a few months - go ahead, dilute yourself into thinking that it won't be well received over there ... underestimate Apple and learn the hard way like so many others have when Apple penetrated their product market regardless of geographic location) existing product with features that nokia is now only talking about implementing in a future product:

(at 1:45 in nokia's promo video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCKIRfElaI))
"Soon, nokia's devices will allow you to touch the screen to navigate..."

Wow. Ground breaking.

Apparently old technology though. So old that nokia is just now advertising it as a new feature in their future products.

If Apple didn't bring anything new to the mobile communications market with the iPhone, and all of it's "not new" features have been around for years, then why didn't a market leader like nokia (or anyone else for that matter) implement them in a device long before Apple did?

Because they didn't know how. That's why.

THAT is the genius of Apple.

Dontdothat317
Aug 31, 2007, 06:02 AM
Yeah yeah apple probably had it right first and I always respect them for that.. Apple leads the way in creativity MORESO than many other companies.

However, if Nokia can pull off a great or better product, sell it for cheaper, and allow it to be flexible enough so that it can be used on any network.... id buy it over the iphone, simply because 600 bucks for a phone (a non 3G btw) and a ****** 8gb ipod doesn't get me going. And the internet on the upper end palms is just as fast.

MacQuest
Aug 31, 2007, 06:19 AM
THIS is a good example of the sentiment that I've heard expressed by massive amounts of people since Apple's iPhone introduction in January and it's release in late June, with the most commonly repeated statements highlighted in bold:

The thing people are missing is that up until apple, mobile phone GUI have been half baked and difficult to use. I have a nokia 6280 and it is horrible to use. It is buggy ( I am honestly on my third and it still crashes, I am not an apple fan boy, whatever that means, I just want good products that work.) and the mp3 player is virtually useless. I still had to buy a shuffle as this doesn't work for my runs. Nokia are probably the best of the traditional mobile makers though. Until apple raised the bar they could churn out rubbish again and again. I am so dissapointed by my 6280 that I have vowed never to buy Nokia again (or Sony Ericcson, or LG). They have no design flair either, Nokia's industrial design is horrible until they start copying (Apple's) Jonny Ives that is. I'll keep my 6280 until the iphone comes out over here in Aus.

THAT is why ... "the iPhone will prevail."

I had to throw that in for all of us old school Apple "fan bois " ... DAMNIT STELLA! Now you've got me saying it!!!

STEEEEELLLLLAAAAAAAAA!!!! :mad:;):D

:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

Hawkeye411
Aug 31, 2007, 06:39 AM
Maybe this will cause Apple to release the iPhone in other markets sooner. If not, hey ..... we can just buy the Nokia!!

WOO HOOOOO!!!!

Cheers. :) :apple:

Evangelion
Aug 31, 2007, 08:26 AM
I didn't want to say anything about this... but that couldn't be avoided. What b*ll *****. Can't they think of anything original anymore? Obviously not. :rolleyes:

Can't Apple design anything original: click here (http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=547)

?

-Trinity-
Aug 31, 2007, 08:26 AM
Apparently old technology though. So old that nokia is just now advertising it as a new feature in their future products.

If Apple didn't bring anything new to the mobile communications market with the iPhone, and all of it's "not new" features have been around for years, then why didn't a market leader like nokia (or anyone else for that matter) implement them in a device long before Apple did?

Because they didn't know how. That's why.

And again total BS. Nokia did touchscreen phone prototype long time ago. It even had better resolution than iPhone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7710

I don't know why it wasn't released to markets. Maybe it was too expensive at that time.

Also Nokia internet tablets have big touchscreens, so it's not that Nokia doesn't know how to to it.

You seem to think that iPhone with it's awesome new touchscreen technology is the 8th wonder of the world. For some reason many people are not so excited about the iPhone. I'm not mainly because I was using SE P800 with touchscreen in 2002. It could do everything that iPhone can do (minus multitouch, tilt sensor and Edge/Wi-Fi wasn't ready back then). And this five years old phone had doom, ScummVM, lots of other games, ftp/telnet/ssh, web server, JAVA, Outlook sync, E-mail with real attachements (not just pics), SMS/MMS, played DivX movies, 1st ever phone with camera, recorded video, tethering, chromatic guitar tuner, instant messenger, MP3/ogg player, word, excel, some painting app, full HTML browser, voice dialing, handwriting recognition, COPY & PASTE, etc... (all not stock features)

I mean this old phone did everything that I needed (and more) and iPhone doesn't even offer me the basic functionality that I had five years ago. I used it without the flip-open keypad so it had even fewer buttons than iPhone. Five years ago, that kind of phone really dropped some jaws.

Of course it looks now butt ugly, but in 2002 this was revolutionary and innovative phone.
http://developer.handango.com/include/pictures/81/pc-p800-1.jpg
And nobody had heard anything about the P800. Everybody that saw the phone asked "what is that? Is it a MP3 player?". If SE would have hyped it as much as the iPhone was hyped, then it might have been the first coming of the Jeesus Phone.

To me "Five years ahead" actually means "Five years behind"

Evangelion
Aug 31, 2007, 08:37 AM
And again total BS. Nokia did touchscreen phone prototype long time ago. It even had better resolution than iPhone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7710

I don't know why it wasn't released to markets. Maybe it was too expensive at that time.

I actually saw 7710's being used around Helsinki few times. IIRC, it was on sale, but it was quite expensive and availability was limited.

Now, I love the iPhone and I have defended it from nay-sayers. But the underlying tech is NOT that special. Well, multitouch is, but it isn't used that much in the device to be honest. Accelerometers? MyOrigo had those in 2003. Touchscreens? Those are old as Moses. The main thing that iPhone has going for it is design and the OS.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 08:41 AM
The main thing that iPhone has going for it is design and the OS.

you nailed it, some people just so into "making accusation of copy". Apple's design is very natural, great, and comfortable, in recent years.

and OSX... lets wait and see, I read reports that Linux Mobile OS will be growing very rapidly, and so far, I felt it has better future, consider the no real app policy and single producer model of iPhone.

walangij
Aug 31, 2007, 08:56 AM
After reading through 5 pages of comments, I still don't know why iPhone users or Mac fans in general are so up in arms about Nokia's announcement? Apple jumped into the cell phone ring and released the iPhone, DUHHHH all other mobile companies have been looking at multi-touch, Apple was just the first to introduce it big time. The Prada was out before it but is marketed as a fashion phone, even though the iPhone is in the same category technically it is marketed as an all-purpose phone with "revolutionary interface". Dare I say that Apple is the only company that could create the hype for touch-interfaces b/c of sites like this and users like us. Without the iPhone's marketing, my uncle's and aunts would have no idea what multi-touch is so if Nokia did introduce something like this before the iPhone...yawn. Of course Nokia will wait until the majority of consumers know what it is before releasing any info on theirs. The marketing dollars spent on the iPhone informed consumers on the basis for what Nokia will likely capitalize on.

And good for Nokia to defend their marketshare and better for consumers to have more competition. Hopefully this will put more pressure on Apple to develop a better product faster, but the 5 year lock-in with AT&T probably hinders this as does the 2yr contract (new iPhone before contract is up equals pissed off 1gen iPhoners. Nokia is a huge company with more resources than Apple in mobile-tech, it's relieving to see them to start to market a multi-touch

A multi-touch nokia, unlocked, a sleek design and more functional at similar cost? Bring it on.

-Trinity-
Aug 31, 2007, 08:59 AM
The main thing that iPhone has going for it is design and the OS.

I gotta agree that the UI is good. Both visual and usability part. Although it sometimes shoots itself in the foot because it's too simplified. There has already been several use cases shown that seems just iDiotic. Like the e-mail reply with picture to guy who is not in your contacts.

I would like to see some settings that enables advanced features even making the UI less usable. Best of both worlds.

MacQuest
Aug 31, 2007, 09:31 AM
Can't Apple design anything original: click here (http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=547)

?

That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

Oh, that makes it even worse.

Yeah, the "MyOrigo" (what the HELL is that?!!! Might as well have called it the "MyOrigami" because it's just as useless and as much of a failure as microsoft's P.O.S. (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/umpc/default.mspx)) was surely Apple's inspiration ... :rolleyes: ... for what NOT to do, if anything.

Nokia did touchscreen phone prototype long time ago....I don't know why it wasn't released to markets.

And THAT my friend, is ALL that matters.

They couldn't bring it to market because for WHATEVER reason, they couldn't make it work.

Apple did.

If SE would have hyped it as much as the iPhone...

Again: would have, could have, should have... but didn't.

Apple did.

To me "Five years ahead" actually means "Five years behind"

So that would put nokia 6 years behind, and anyone else following fter them even further back.

5 still comes before 6, but it's not really 5 and 6 anyway.

Apple is 1, and whoever is able to come to market next is not first, because...

Apple did.

PERIOD.

emotion
Aug 31, 2007, 09:39 AM
That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

You can't deny the concept is very similar.

-Trinity-
Aug 31, 2007, 09:48 AM
That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

Oh, that makes it even worse.

Yeah, the "MyOrigo" (what the HELL is that?!!! Might as well have called it the "MyOrigami" because it's just as useless and as much of a failure as microsoft's P.O.S. (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/umpc/default.mspx)) was surely Apple's inspiration ... :rolleyes: ... for what NOT to do, if anything.

Did you even bother to read what MyOrigo holds inside? Or do you just have hard time accepting the fact and therefore you make childish and totally irrelevant comments about the looks of MyOrigo.

It's even rumored that Apple bought MyOrigo's technology and tech-wise they do look very similar. Do you really need to see a list of all things that Apple copied from MyOrigo (and many other phones) or can you figure that out by yourself? Maybe Apple's dumbphone is just the right phone for you since you don't seem to understand anything about smartphones and just concentrate on the fashion part. Don't tell me... Your gay too?

http://www.intomobile.com/2007/08/10/analyst-apple-iphone-screen-problems-may-get-worse-the-dreaded-dead-strip.html
"Apple bought the rights to the screen technology used in the iPhone from a Finnish firm. Finnish firm reported that usage led to the same unresponsive display problems after some time. Apparently, 3 to 6 months of “extensive use” would start to degrade the technology and cause a lose of sensitivity to touch-inputs. This suggests that the relatively new iPhone fleet in the US could start to exhibit similar problems with time."

Guess the name of the Finnish company. I'll give you a hint. It's "MyOrigo"

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 10:15 AM
Apple is 1, and whoever is able to come to market next is not first, because...

Apple did.

PERIOD.

apple is 1? please. since you think as long as there IS something different, its a NEW product, and Im sure nobody will make a machine exactly like iPhone, then apple's "1" really means nothing in your own definition....

defending apple to a degree like this, SJ should pay you. :)

walangij
Aug 31, 2007, 10:39 AM
apple is 1? please. since you think as long as there IS something different, its a NEW product, and Im sure nobody will make a machine exactly like iPhone, then apple's "1" really means nothing in your own definition....

defending apple to a degree like this, SJ should pay you. :)

Also, what definition is #1 or first to the market, what market? Mobiles? Mobiles with an OS? Multitouch OS? Or #1 in the first OSX based phone (which sadly does not live up to the name) or maybe Apple's first phone endeavor that makes sense?

MacQuest
Aug 31, 2007, 06:25 PM
It's even rumored that Apple bought MyOrigo's technology

That MyOrigo technology sucked because of a major factor; it was based on heat chemical deposition and heat detection input. The similarities between the manner in one input on that device and the iPhone is what caused that unfounded rumor that Apple bought the technology from "a finnish firm":

"But the source of the new brouhaha is London-based analyst Richard Windsor of Nomura International.

In his note, Windsor told clients that Apple bought rights to the screen technology by a Finnish firm that also saw the problem where usage sometimes led to dead areas over time."

At the bottom of the very same article you linked me to:

"Update
The iPhone does not use heat chemical deposition technology, nor does it detect inputs based on heat."

tech-wise they do look very similar.

Looking similar and being the same are two different things.

If Apple's iPhone input technology just looks like MyOrigo's earlier but severely flawed technology (THERE'S the answer to your statement saying "I don't know why they didn't bring it to market"), that means nothing.

Apple did it better with different technology and THAT is why they were able to bring the iPhone to market.

So the score is - Multi-touch input mobile communication devices: Apple = 1 / anyone else = NONE.

...since you don't seem to understand anything about smartphones...

I understand that there is only one "smartphone" with multi-touch input technology available today. The best part is, we haven't even seen what Apple has in store for us with multi-touch input, but I'll bet it's pretty exciting seeing as how they filed for patent on it.

Forget touch sensitive, yes that's been around for years. Multi-touch sensitive is a whole different deal though.

It's the difference between simple, limited point and touch capabilities with one finger, and the ability to manipulate, re-size, re-position, and many other things with the use of an opposable thumb.

It's an revolutionary step that Apple brought to the game.

Everyone else is still just sitting on the lower branch of the evolutionary tree throwing feces at eachother.

...and (you) just concentrate on the fashion part.

There's no denying that Apple puts a lot of thought into it's product designs. That's why it and the man behind them (Johnathon Ives) consistently win industrial design awards.

That's also the reason that Apple's products are always copied, from technolgy to design.

The iPhone looks like no other phone, but nokia is already proving that there will be iPhone look alikes. Follow the leader.

Don't tell me... Your gay too?

Exhibit your sexual frustration and look for your boyfriend somewhere else please, not on these forums.

I don't swing your way.

"Apple bought the rights to the screen technology used in the iPhone from a Finnish firm."... Guess the name of the Finnish company... It's "MyOrigo"

Yes, it is possible that Apple bought the rights to a flawed technology knowing that they could improve on it which is obviously what they did IF in fact that rumor is true:

Again, "But the source of the new brouhaha is London-based analyst Richard Windsor of Nomura International.

In his note, Windsor told clients that Apple bought rights to the screen technology by a Finnish firm that also saw the problem where usage sometimes led to dead areas over time."

At the bottom of the very same article you linked me to:

"Update
The iPhone does not use heat chemical deposition technology, nor does it detect inputs based on heat."

The point is MyOrigo, couldn't make it work.

Apple did.

MacQuest
Aug 31, 2007, 06:41 PM
...since you think as long as there IS something different, its a NEW product,...

Show me 1 other MULTI-touch input mobile communication device in the relevant mobile phone market.

You just don't get the importance of the difference between "touch" and "multi-touch" do you?

It seems so trivial, but it's HUGE.

It's literally the difference between having an opposable thumb and not having one. Your options and capabilities are severely limited without one.

Apple knows it. I and others know it. You don't.

Plus, you seem to lack the comprehension that multi-touch technology will extend far beyond the iPhone.

...and Im sure nobody will make a machine exactly like iPhone,

Of course they will.

Inevitabally, they'll probably suck functionally, but their attitude will be "Hey, it looks just like the iPhone ... that's good enough, isn't it? ... isn't it?!!! ... PLEASE buy our crap!!!".

...then apple's "1" really means nothing in your own definition...

Don't blame me because you're taking my definition out of context.

Again, show me 1 other MULTI-touch input mobile communication device in the relevant mobile phone market.

Also, what definition is #1 or first to the market...Multitouch OS?

BINGO!!!

Good job!

Specifically, multi-touch OS on a small form factor, mobile communication device.

-Trinity-
Sep 1, 2007, 02:27 AM
You really are quite hooked on this new and great multitouch. Probably because it's your last line of defence. BWT. It's 25 years old technology and used lot on screens. Apple only has a trademark for the name. Anyone can use the age old technology, but they have to call it something else.

So please tell me what are the benefits of the multitouch screen in iPhone.
-zooming with akward move that requires two hands
-double tap
-anything else?

When I need to zoom while looking a web page or picture, I just move my thumb little. Only one hand needed. I wouldn't exchange ability to use finger AND stylus for multitouch. I rarely have to take out the stylus, but some things need it. Like when I'm playing Lucas Art classic games or Age of Empires and that kind of games. They ofter require clicking areas size of few pixels. I also edit graphics quite often with my phone. Impossible to do without stylus.

MacQuest
Sep 1, 2007, 03:10 PM
You really are quite hooked on this new and great multitouch.

It's the only small form factor, mobile communications device that has this feature and Apple is just getting started with implementing it's uses.

It's one of the features that makes the iPhone in it's current encarnation so original. More importantly though, it's the future capabilities that multi-touch input will bring that make it even more enticing.

Only on the iPhone. Brought to us by Apple.

I'm not on the defense here, you are. You're obviously getting frustrated because you can't overcome the fact that something so seemingly simple is such a dramatic improvement over years old single touch capability and it just burns you up that Apple brought it to the masses with it's first mobile phone.

Not nokia, sony-ericsson, motorola, samsung, LG, or any other of the established names in the industry.

You know why?

Think different.

Apple does, and did.

So please tell me what are the benefits of the multitouch screen in iPhone.
-zooming with akward move that requires two hands
-double tap
-anything else?

You're argument is unfounded and thinning. This is just as amusing as hearing "armchair commanders" who talk about something that they're not actually involved with.

HOLY Trinity! I forgot to ask!

Have you even actually used an iPhone? Are you in the U.S.? Or is that why you don't disclose your location in your username here on MacRumors?

Unless you've actually used an iPhone, you have no ground for debate other than uninformed speculation.

As for multi-touch movement, it isn't awkward at all. It's very intuitive, fluid, and an evolutionary step in technological interaction.

Also, it's only on the iPhone, by Apple.

When I need to zoom while looking a web page or picture, I just move my thumb little. Only one hand needed. I wouldn't exchange ability to use finger AND stylus for multitouch. I rarely have to take out the stylus, but some things need it. Like when I'm playing Lucas Art classic games or Age of Empires and that kind of games. They ofter require clicking areas size of few pixels. I also edit graphics quite often with my phone. Impossible to do without stylus.

Okay. So now we're talking in a civil manner.

My point with emphasizing multi-touch is that all those things that you just said you do with a single finger and sometimes a stylus, Apple is aware that many people do as well.

You say that it's impossible to do without a stylus. I say that we'll soon find out if multi-touch can actually make it possible.

The solution may or may not come from Apple. The point is that the technology was brought to us by them and with so many people developing so many apps for the iPhone already, who knows what the future will bring?

Either way, it'll be fun finding out.

chatfan
Sep 1, 2007, 07:37 PM
Wow some serious "i'll try to make a point eve if it makes no real point" fanboy ubernerd stuff is seriously pathetic.

Nokia joins in, hurray! That means G3 / GPS and any network you like and if you do take a $60/ month setup i'm pretty sure you get it for FREE.

But then again I don't live in a mobilephone third world country lol.

No doubt we also get a proper camera and video capaility.

Sam0r
Sep 2, 2007, 11:16 AM
Really.. who cares about Nokia's "iPhone ripoff".

It will probably be better than the iPhone, seeing as the iPhone is capable of so much more than Apple delivered.

Nokia have been in the phone business for like.. 20 years. Look at the Prada, thats a blatant iPhone rip and LG didn't get sued for that did they?

If someone wants the Nokia iPhone, then they'll get the Nokia iPhone, if someone wants the Apple iPhone, they'll get the Apple iPhone.

Personally I'm looking forward to the Nokia iPhone, seeing as the Apple iPhone is too expencive and locked to one network by default.

joe8232
Sep 2, 2007, 12:34 PM
I have to disagree with people who say the main features are the design and os. Well maybe not so much the design as that is fantastic. The OS however, I fail to see how it is OSX. I have a Mac running OSX and I can save files to it and open finder and install programs etc and to my best knowledge the iPhone can't do this so I fail to see how it is really OSX.

Also, is every new phone released with a touch screen now going to be called an iphone rip-off?

GrooveMonsters
Sep 2, 2007, 12:59 PM
did anyone else notice that "the hardware is not real and the LCD's images are overlaid. Yes, it's not even a working prototype"


Vaporware:
Nokia's Future iPhone Killing Concept Like a Fake, Vaporous Picasso (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/top/nokias-future-iphone-killing-concept-like-a-fake-vaporous-picasso-294730.php)

spydr
Sep 2, 2007, 03:41 PM
I see the Apple fan bois and apologists are out in force.

Every company copies from any one else...

..well, except Apple..

On the iPhone you can't even have your own custom ring tones.

Unbelievably:
you pay FULL PRICE for your iPhone and Apple STILL dictates what cell network you USE!!!!

How Retarded is that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see anything retarded in that -

1. I really like several among the gamut of ring tones the iPhone comes with - now if only badly itches uncontrollably to have a custom ringtone, there are ways that let you do it in few minutes - and save the outrageous $1.99 every other carrier is selling their obnoxious ringtones for.

2. There is no real choice for a GSM phone - the only other mentionable network is T mobile and their coverage is really embarrassing - I have had their phones for several years and I would be the only one to borrow a friends phone (Cingular or Verizon) to make a phone call home, when we are out hiking or on the road. So far, I have been very happy with AT&T coverage.

Both the issues are "ISSUES" only if one wants to blow them up to be.

A Pittarelli
Sep 2, 2007, 03:52 PM
totally looks like a ripoff

-Trinity-
Sep 2, 2007, 03:57 PM
You should salesman for Apple. You can really make it sound like apple invented everything from telephone to multi-touchscreen. You repeat Apple's add-slogans like brainwashed zombie. I'm sure that SJ is very proud of you and he'll send you a cookie. But I'm suprised that you haven't yet used "less is more".

Unless you've actually used an iPhone, you have no ground for debate other than uninformed speculation.

No, I don't have iPhone. At least not yet. Current version of iPhone would leave me crippled in my work and life, so it's not even option for me. And I'm not speculating. I'm presenting issues that other "beta testers" of the iPhone have found out. You are speculating:

...future capabilities that multi-touch input will bring...
I say that we'll soon find out if...
...who knows what the future will bring?
...it'll be fun finding out.

In other words: YOU DON'T KNOW! You're just speculating that the multi-touch might be great in future. I can also predict that Nokia's next touchscreen phone allows people to teleport from place X to place Y. Just as valid claim as yours.

You failed to tell me the real benefits that it's offering NOW. So could you please list the benefits and reasons why I should dump the stylus in favour of the multi-touch.

As for multi-touch movement, it isn't awkward at all. It's very intuitive, fluid, and an evolutionary step in technological interaction.

If it's so fluid, then why iPhone users had to come up with easier way to do it? MacRumors had at least one thread about this. Basicly the trick was to touch bottom left side of the screen with your left thumb and then use right hand finger to zoom. This is exactly same thing that I do. I press a button just below the screen to activate zoom mode and slide finger on screen. Same result, no multi-touch.

mrrydogg
Sep 2, 2007, 07:37 PM
It has been posted once or twice already and for some reason is being ignored by the people involved in a few catfights here, but it bares repeating.....

THIS IS A FAKE!!!

Its not a real working prototype. Nokia has admitted it already. Sadly, if your gonna use special effects to try to hype something you can't even make yet, you should of hired a better effects house to spice up your ad. Really makes you think.

So in the end, there is no challenge yet to the iPhone's interface and design that is going to be on the market anytime soon. They are coming, for sure, but everyone can settle down now ok!

mrrydogg
Sep 2, 2007, 08:02 PM
If it's so fluid, then why iPhone users had to come up with easier way to do it? MacRumors had at least one thread about this. Basically the trick was to touch bottom left side of the screen with your left thumb and then use right hand finger to zoom. This is exactly same thing that I do. I press a button just below the screen to activate zoom mode and slide finger on screen. Same result, no multi-touch.

I don't know what method you are describing, but it only takes one hand to zoom in or out on the iPhone. Its a pinching motion...I don't know anyone that pinches with two hands.

I don't think anyone is saying Apple invented the wheel with the iPhone, well anyone educated at least, but they did re-invent the wheel here. Thats a honest assessment. The interface for a touch screen product is the single most important part of the experience.

In the modern age there is a rarely a product that is truly inventive, most use a combination of other companies technologies mixed in with their own to create something unique. The link you keep providing for the MyOrigo is hardly a never before seen device. Yes, it was something unique, but still borrowed and expanded on other technologies available to them. There may be some unique invention wrapped in there, but it is what it is.

Ok. So lets continue.

1, One of SyncML founders and introduced the first SyncML device.
2. First GPRS connection between two countries
3. First MMS capable device
4. First 3G WCDMA call in a commercial 3PPP system
5. First CDMA2000 data transfer
6. First EDGE-WCDMA 3G data transfer
7. First NFC (Near Field Communication) device
...

That's a few from this millenniumn. Nokia invented the wheel, invented how to roll it, call with it, send data with it. Apple invented how to paint it with pretty colors.

You actually want to compare Apple's history with Nokia?

Please lets not compare invention and innovation with Apple and Nokia. Its a loosing argument on your part.

-Trinity-
Sep 3, 2007, 03:15 AM
I don't know what method you are describing, but it only takes one hand to zoom in or out on the iPhone. Its a pinching motion...I don't know anyone that pinches with two hands.

I was refering to this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=332946

You mean that you can do the pinching move with same hand that holds the phone? Other hand totally free? I tried to simulate this acrobatic move and almost dropped my phone.

big.birdd
Sep 3, 2007, 06:28 AM
who cares if nokia copied, maybe we will get a cheaper unlocked phone at the same specs, surely thats a good thing

Evangelion
Sep 3, 2007, 08:08 AM
That piece of junk is FUGLY and, what OS does it use?

Completely, 100% IRRELEVANT! Or are you now saying that iPhone is so damn innovative because it looks pretty? Is THAT the core of Apple's innovation: that their phone is pretty?

Fact of the matter is that the tech iPhone has is old. MyOrigo had it in 2003! And Apple has the benefit of having 4 extra years of technological progress to draw from, MyOrigo did not.

Yeah, the "MyOrigo" (what the HELL is that?!!!

Again: COMPETELY, 100% IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!

Might as well have called it the "MyOrigami" because it's just as useless and as much of a failure as microsoft's P.O.S. (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/umpc/default.mspx))

Now you are whining about their name? If you have nothing relevant to say, then don't say anything.

was surely Apple's inspiration ... :rolleyes: ... for what NOT to do, if anything.

So one of Apple's much-touted feature in iPhione is accelerometers. And back in 2003 we had a company designing a cell-phone that had accelerometers and they used it in a very similar way as Apple uses them in iPhone. Yet you have the nerve to claim that Apple is the trailblazer here, and that no-one did accelerometers before them? Fact is that accelerometers were being used back in 2003!

They couldn't bring it to market because for WHATEVER reason, they couldn't make it work.

Apple did.

Again: MyOrigo was among the first to try something like that. Apparently Apple bought their tech, so they had access to their R&D AND they had four years of additional technological progress to draw from. MyOrigo had none of those benefits.

You simply cannot claim that Apple did this first, when fact is that they did not.

Apple is 1, and whoever is able to come to market next is not first, because...

Apple did.

PERIOD.

And MyOrigo had this four years ago.....

Evangelion
Sep 3, 2007, 08:19 AM
The iPhone looks like no other phone

Hmmmmm.... (http://www.ministryoftech.com/images/ke850.jpg)

but nokia is already proving that there will be iPhone look alikes. Follow the leader.

So, you are saying that if a device has a large touchscreen, it's a copy of iPhone? In that case I would say that iPhone is a copy of Nokia 770 or any other touchscreen-device Nokia (or anyone else for that matter) released long before Apple released iPhone.

The point is MyOrigo, couldn't make it work.

Apple did.

MyOrigo was most likely too far ahead to make it work properly. There had to be few more years of technological progress in order to make it work. MyOrigo did not have that luxury, Apple did.

And fact remains that even though you are trying to paint Apple as the great innovator here, the fact remains that the concept is at least four years old.

Evangelion
Sep 3, 2007, 08:21 AM
I don't know what method you are describing, but it only takes one hand to zoom in or out on the iPhone. Its a pinching motion...I don't know anyone that pinches with two hands.

Um, one hands holds the phone, other hand pinches....

mrrydogg
Sep 3, 2007, 08:56 AM
I was referring to this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=332946

You mean that you can do the pinching move with same hand that holds the phone? Other hand totally free? I tried to simulate this acrobatic move and almost dropped my phone.

All you have to do is touch the top right of the screen with your index finger and use your thumb...one handed. Like a "C" shape with your right hand or reversed with the left. Ummmm. I can't believe there was a forum thread for that!

mrrydogg
Sep 3, 2007, 09:03 AM
Um, one hands holds the phone, other hand pinches....

Ummm, NO. See my previous post....and maybe try using the phone.

Oh, I forgot. Your MyOrigo or whatever, surely was something that could only be used with one hand entirely, because thats such an important quality in a phone and because that phone was soooo far ahead of its time. I am sure it didn't recycle any other technology being used at the time or didn't improve on existing hardware and software available to them.

Where can I get one of those again? Oh yeah, I can't, because they were clunky and awkward, the user interface was garbage.

mrrydogg
Sep 3, 2007, 09:27 AM
Completely, 100% IRRELEVANT! Or are you now saying that iPhone is so damn innovative because it looks pretty? Is THAT the core of Apple's innovation: that their phone is pretty?

Clearly, that Apple can create a powerful OS and design a interface that is both easy to use and beautiful IS innovative. Something the MyOrigo group clearly couldn't do.

Fact of the matter is that the tech iPhone has is old. MyOrigo had it in 2003! And Apple has the benefit of having 4 extra years of technological progress to draw from, MyOrigo did not.

Fact of the matter is that MyOrigo was not the first touch screen phone either. Touch screens were not new in 2003. The first Palm had a touch screen.

So one of Apple's much-touted feature in iPhone is accelerometers. And back in 2003 we had a company designing a cell-phone that had accelerometers and they used it in a very similar way as Apple uses them in iPhone. Yet you have the nerve to claim that Apple is the trailblazer here, and that no-one did accelerometers before them? Fact is that accelerometers were being used back in 2003!

Fact is accelerometers have been around forever! Maybe MyOrigo was the first to put one in a cell phone, I am not even sure about that, either way, who cares? They never brought it to market and the company went under? Why are we even talking about a company that never even put their product out? It was maybe a great idea, but thats it.


Again: MyOrigo was among the first to try something like that. Apparently Apple bought their tech, so they had access to their R&D AND they had four years of additional technological progress to draw from. MyOrigo had none of those benefits.

There is no concrete proof that Apple bought their technology. Anyway, even if they did, that is common practice. Why would that be seen as a negative? The fact is that the iPhone is the FIRST phone to bring this kind of interface to the mass market. Others may have tried and failed. Others may be working on their own version. IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE. It been done and exposed to the world.

The design argument is pointless. Tell me how you would design a touch screen device? Hmmmm would it be anything else than a brick or rectangle shape? EXACTLY, it wouldn't be. There is a reason all these phones look similar, because common sense tells us that its the most functional design.

DesignerOnMac
Sep 3, 2007, 04:28 PM
I never said anything about Apple taking over, nor do I want that. I believe in competition. It only makes products better for the consumer. It's a privilege to have a device most can only desire. How many people have $600 to spend on a cellphone? Not many. You can't deny the fact Nokia has absolutely no originality.

There are a lot of $600.00 plus cell phones out there for anyone to purchase!
Including Nokia, and Sony/Ericsson! And more.......

DesignerOnMac
Sep 3, 2007, 04:33 PM
Ok. Good for you! You might wanna wait until Apple releases the Totally Gay model of the iPhone. I heard that it's going to be pink with glittering edges.

Some people like to get creative by themselves. I pimped my PDA UI because the stock UI is just horrible. Too bad that you cannot set a big rainbow as your iPhone background. That black background is just... not gay.

Give me a break will you? Stereo typing a group of people like this is unintelligent and demeaning to others! Not ALL GAY people wear pink, wear dresses, or makeup! (The list is endless.) Some people are very 'macho' and straight acting, you would NEVER know what their preferences in the bedroom, or who they are in love with is!!!!! There is much more to a person that ISN'T ALL ABOUT sexual preferences!

gifford
Sep 3, 2007, 06:02 PM
Nokia make the worlds UGLIEST phones, they exude bad taste, and lack in style.
They cant help skewing the number buttons all over the place, in a sad attempt to make their phones look 'funky'. Here are some of my favorites...

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/01/nokiangage2.jpg
http://www.iphonematters.com/images/uploads/Nokia-5500_500x528.jpg
http://www.geekz1.com/images/news/nokia_6600_3100_3.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/72/201370411_fd6a17ac19.jpg
http://www.mobilegazette.com/images/nokia-7600-2.jpg
http://www.turfsm.com/uploaded_images/ugly%20shoe-713407.jpg

Lets not forget this absolute classic...
http://www.cellular.co.za/phones/nokia/2002/nokia_3650.jpg

danny_w
Sep 3, 2007, 08:14 PM
There are a lot of $600.00 plus cell phones out there for anyone to purchase!
Including Nokia, and Sony/Ericsson! And more.......
He didn't ask how many $600 cell phones were out there, but how many people have $600 for a cell phone. Quite a difference there. Yes, there are a lot of expensive cell phones (even much more than $600), but they make up a very small percentage of the cell phone market.

tutubibi
Sep 3, 2007, 11:04 PM
I would take N95 over iPhone any time.
iPhone is just a good looking entertainment phone with some cool and some practical features but with some not so cool limitations.

pinksalmon
Sep 4, 2007, 02:55 AM
Iphone rocks and the other suck... male chicken:D

ruutiveijari
Sep 4, 2007, 05:06 AM
You actually want to compare Apple's history with Nokia?

Please lets not compare invention and innovation with Apple and Nokia. Its a loosing argument on your part.
No. Where did I say I wanted to do that? I simply answered MacQuest's claim about Nokia's history.

joe8232
Sep 4, 2007, 06:25 AM
I still think apple shouldn't be boasting the fact it runs OSX as to most windows users it will make OSX seem very weak what with no file browser and being unable to install any programs.

mrrydogg
Sep 4, 2007, 08:47 AM
I still think apple shouldn't be boasting the fact it runs OSX as to most windows users it will make OSX seem very weak what with no file browser and being unable to install any programs.

Patience man, patience.

Darkroom
Sep 4, 2007, 09:07 AM
Nokia make the worlds UGLIEST phones, they exude bad taste, and lack in style.
They cant help skewing the number buttons all over the place, in a sad attempt to make their phones look 'funky'. Here are some of my favorites...

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/01/nokiangage2.jpg
http://www.iphonematters.com/images/uploads/Nokia-5500_500x528.jpg
http://www.geekz1.com/images/news/nokia_6600_3100_3.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/72/201370411_fd6a17ac19.jpg
http://www.mobilegazette.com/images/nokia-7600-2.jpg
http://www.turfsm.com/uploaded_images/ugly%20shoe-713407.jpg

Lets not forget this absolute classic...
http://www.cellular.co.za/phones/nokia/2002/nokia_3650.jpg

those were released?! i do recall seeing one of those phones... but overall, they're all quite disturbing... the jetsons-future aesthetic should never be taken seriously... thanks for the post, it's nice to see a selection of nokia's work... that last phone seems like it would be quite the conversation piece... :rolleyes:

MacQuest
Sep 5, 2007, 03:54 PM
No, I don't have iPhone. At least not yet.

THAT IS ALL SHE WROTE.

...I'm presenting issues that other "beta testers" of the iPhone have found out. I'm not speculating...

Ah geez...

You really don't see how talking about something that you don't have first hand experience with is "speculation", especially when you're commenting on other people's first hand experience?

Don't talk about what you don't know about first hand and try to pass it off as "presenting issues", because what you're relaying from those "beta testers" is in fact, "fact", because they are speaking from first hand account.

You, Einstein, are just speculating on their fact.

Now go sit in your corner, face the wall, and put your big pointy hat on because it matches that t-shirt your wearing of your favorite movie that sums you up, "Clueless" (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0112697/Ss/0112697/fcstil_0518.jpg.html?hint=group).

You really are quite hooked on this new and great multitouch.

Yup.

So is Apple and hundreds of thousands of iPhone (you know, the FIRST and ONLY small form factor mobile device with multi-touch technology) owners - soon to be a million in under 3 months (has nokia or any other established mobile phone manufacturer ever reached that milestone in that short amount of time? Apple will.) - and soon to be millions of "iPod touch" owners:

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/

Any bets on whether we'll see multi-touch Mac computers by 2008? ... of course, followed closely by other computer manufacturers saying that soon they'll be able to do what Apple's products already can. :rolleyes:

"I'm not responsible for other people's lack of foresight, much less their ignorance." - Me

That's my personal quote from 2001 when I was working as a Mac/Novell/windows network administrator for XEROX (a TRULY innovative company as well, but Apple was smarter about how they could implement Xerox's mouse and GUI obviously ... sounds like myOrigi doesn't it? They failed but Apple succeeded because they took existing technology - myOrigi's or whoever's touch interface - and made it better - Apple's multi-touch technology) when I bought my 1st gen 5Gb iPod and everyone was telling me that it was "doomed to fail" for many reasons.

Suckaz!!! :p

:apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple::apple:

...it's nice to see a selection of nokia's work... that last phone seems like it would be quite the conversation piece... :rolleyes:

Yeah. Apple had a converstion about all of those nokia phones and myOrigo's "myDevice".

It started out like this:

Steve Jobs: "Now these are examples of what we DON'T want to do because we here at Apple have class, style, and true innovations that redefine and even create new markets..."

walangij
Sep 5, 2007, 08:14 PM
Yup.

Steve Jobs: "Now these are examples of what we DON'T want to do because we here at Apple have class, style, and true innovations that redefine and even create new markets..."

If I recall correctly, the reason why the board of directors got rid of Jobs was because he was too cocky. Then he wrote many places about how Pixar and rebuilding Apple humbled him and gave him vision and perspective. It sounds like he's getting a little cocky again. But at least now he has the fanbase to do and say stuff like this. just a couple of days ago I remember people yelling "Apple would never release an ugly Nano like that stubby thing" ect. ect. well it happened and I hear "it's not so bad after all". Uggghhhhh, fan loyalty to the extreme. I'm so glad about the price drop, but that will likely put the Nokia in another league. I'm glad that Apple has changed the landscape here in the States, but whatever others have said, Nokia isn't stupid, their designs sell abroad ALOT.

Apple designs lately are kinda, well not as wow as they used to be, this Nokia prototype looks great, can't wait to see the multi-touch landscape in a year. Sad thing is that Apple will likely be behind then :(

cyberone
Sep 6, 2007, 04:12 AM
i like this kind of competition - not too bad for us endusers.

MacQuest
Sep 6, 2007, 07:31 AM
Apple designs lately are kinda, well not as wow as they used to be,[/b]

Just your opinion, and a wrong one at that.

Then again, that's just my opinion.

I LOVE the iPhone's look. As well as ALL of the new iPods and the new iMacs as well.

You say Apple's designs are not as "wow", and to you I say "Oh well"... hundreds of thousands of people disagree with you, as they will with me.

Point is that Apple's designs and entire product line has NEVER been better in terms of design, form, functionality, and continuity... yes, IMO.

nokia just flings a bunch of "design" at the wall to see what sticks, and if people don't have the option to get an iPhone for whatever reason, then they're gonna have some of that "design" stuck to them whether it's nokia's or not, and wheteher they like it or not.


this Nokia prototype looks great,

I heard it's not a prototype anymore and that it has gone into production as the nokia "WeBAi" (Wanna Be An iPhone).

can't wait to see the multi-touch landscape in a year. Sad thing is that Apple will likely be behind then :(

Oh, so now you're anticipating that others will see the advantage of multi-touch since Apple has brought it to the masses now, FIRST?

Follow the leader.

BTW, someone actually has to be in front of Apple on multi-touch technology for Apple to be behind anyone, not just talk about it.

Good foresight though ... not.

walangij
Sep 6, 2007, 09:08 AM
Just your opinion, and a wrong one at that.

Then again, that's just my opinion.

I LOVE the iPhone's look. As well as ALL of the new iPods and the new iMacs as well.

You say Apple's designs are not as "wow", and to you I say "Oh well"... hundreds of thousands of people disagree with you, as they will with me.

You are correct, the beauty of a design is totally and fully opinion. I'm just stating that recently, with the new nano, iMac, keyboard, that those designs haven't had the same wow factor as other products did before. I'm sure you remember the launches of the iMac G5, the mac mini, the mighty mouse, the video iPod and nano, and even the iPhone. They brought extreme hype and universally they were deemed great. Just recently though, people have began to dissent about the current designs. Sure they've grown on me ( I love the look of the new nano now), but just that wow factor wasn't there. But I'm sure for many it was. Industrial design doesn't always mean universally appealing.


Point is that Apple's designs and entire product line has NEVER been better in terms of design, form, functionality, and continuity... yes, IMO.

Apple's industrial design has always been different, better, that's subjective, but for the most part I agree that their design, form, functionality, ect is better, yet my Apple experience has not been about the aesthetics but more about the OS. The iPhone OS is impressive, but just not up to par for me yet, hopefully soon though.


nokia just flings a bunch of "design" at the wall to see what sticks, and if people don't have the option to get an iPhone for whatever reason, then they're gonna have some of that "design" stuck to them whether it's nokia's or not, and wheteher they like it or not.

I heard it's not a prototype anymore and that it has gone into production as the nokia "WeBAi" (Wanna Be An iPhone). :confused:

Nokia is a huge mobile company in every single market of mobile users, from budget to fashion to music to work to extremely expensive basic phones (vertu/8600 luna). Their whole business is different than Apple's iPhone, I guess comparison doesn't work then. I'm totally confused about the WeBAi if its fake or not and don't want to waste time looking into it, if there's any truth to it though. One thing I'm sure of is that Nokia execs have noticed the iPhone, therefore they are not sitting idly by with multi-touch, they're developing something somewhere and it'll be released sometime in the future. how's that for vague speculation lol.




Oh, so now you're anticipating that others will see the advantage of multi-touch since Apple has brought it to the masses now, FIRST?

Follow the leader.

BTW, someone actually has to be in front of Apple on multi-touch technology for Apple to be behind anyone, not just talk about it.

Good foresight though ... not.


Apple brought MT to the masses first here in the US I guess, the Prada was released before it technically but lets not pick hairs. I'm sure that Samsung, LG, SE, Nokia, HTC and even Moto are following up with similar Multi-touch systems.
Obviously it's not that hard to make it, look at all the chinese knock-offs :rolleyes:.
Samsung components make up for a lot of the iPhone, and their partnership w/ Armani will make their product at least interesting.

I'm almost certain that a year from today there will be more than just the 3-5 MT phones. My assertion that Apple won't be ahead :( which I hope is not true :D:apple: is based on my speculation that Apple won't release an updated iPhone before then and that the other companies will release theirs. I hope that :apple: will release a 3G, increased GB iPhone soon though as there's speculation they will soon before the european release.

Apple is the leader now, but in the global market a year from now, I wouldn't be too sure. But Apple doesn't seem to expand greatly into global markets so that case is somewhat irrelevant.



No matter how baseless your "non-iPhone owning or ever having used one" pure speculation is.

:confused:??? Correct, I've not owned an iPhone, but many of my friends switched contracts to get one on launch week so I've used it more than the average user. I seriously considered getting one, but the only problem is international travel. I'm not too keen on paying for roaming or EDGE abroad, there seems to be a problem with the EDGE downloading ect. ect. that's a different story.

MacQuest
Sep 6, 2007, 10:28 AM
:confused:??? Correct, I've not owned an iPhone,...

My apologies walanji. That "non-owning and never having used an iPhone" comment I made was directed at -Trinity-, not you. ;)

This was his/her/it's answer when I asked if he/her/it owned or even used an iPhone and actually tried the multi-touch interaction, both of which he is talking so much trash on:

No, I don't have iPhone. At least not yet.

-Trinity-
Sep 6, 2007, 11:38 AM
So if I put some link here where other people tell their iPhone experiences, it's totally non-valid information since I don't own it? Your logic is just great.

I guess that you should't say a word about the new Nokia's phone, since you don't own it.

You still haven't told me what are the current real benefits of this awesome multi-touch. How do you benefit from it now? It's just novelty feature now and once the honeymoon is over, people start to realize that it's not so awesome.

You seem to think that Apple is now the leader of mobile business, because they where the first company to introduce multi-touch. Do you think that they will now sell more phones than Nokia? Apple has one phone in their lineup, Nokia has quite many. Thats why they can experiment and produce some strange retro style phone that only appeals to limited crowd. Apple had to make their phone clean and sterile, so that it appeals to maximum amount of buyers. Some might think that it's dull looking. It's all in the eye of the beholder and you cannot argue about the looks.

If you read non-bias reviews of the iPhone, then you'll notice that most of them say that Apples current implementation of multi-touch is really lame. Only zooming?!? Why didn'ty they come up with anything else? Isn't Apple supposed to be innovative and creative company? Apple needed to put some new technology in mobile phone to be able to hype it so much. Speaking of hype, could you also explain me this "full internet" argument.

I can see benefits of multi-touch in big screens (like 3D modeling), but not in small, low resolution mobile phone screen that it used with one hand while other is holding the phone.

MacQuest
Sep 6, 2007, 03:35 PM
So if I put some link here where other people tell their iPhone experiences, it's totally non-valid information since I don't own it? Your logic is just great.

Like I said before, their comments will be fact. You nonetheless, and no matter how you try to persuade yourself otherwise, are still just speculating on nothing you know nothing about first hand.

Besides, for every 1 person you might link to who has had or is having a "bad" iPhone experience, I'll have 10 that say how good and revolutionary it is.

It's all in the numbers. There's almost a million iPhone owners now.

So go ahead now (or wait until Apple reaches the 1 millionth mark this month) and give me 100,000 links to people who are dissapointed with the iPhone.

That's 1/10th of all iPhone owners. You better get started.

Lol!

I guess that you should't say a word about the new Nokia's phone, since you don't own it.

FACT: NO nokia (or ANY) phone has a multi-touch interface at this point.

PERIOD.

OPINION/SPECULATION: nokia makes ugly a$$ products no matter how innovative their technologies may be (but no multi-touch? ... archaic compared to Apple)

You still haven't told me what are the current real benefits of this awesome multi-touch. How do you benefit from it now?

No, actually you're just not listening. The verdict is in.

Apparently a lot of us nearly 1 million people who have had our iPhone's for no more than the slightly over 2 months it's been available, and we'll be joined by hundreds of thousands more between now and the end of the year, like the ability to pinch and zoom fluidly using 2 fingers.

It's a huge advantage to have an opposable finger like the thumb.

As a matter of fact, it's evolutionary and revolutionary.

Just like Apple.

It's just novelty feature now and once the honeymoon is over, people start to realize that it's not so awesome.

Really? Then why is nokia talking about how it's going to do (sometime next year) what Apple has already done? And they haven't even mentioned multi-touch. Their promo video just shows antiquated single-touch useage.

This is gonna be one long honeymoon.

It seems to me that Apple, and being the followers that they are, the rest of the industry, is just getting started with multi-touch technology.

Welcome the new iPod touch (http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/features.html?feature=multitouch):

Like I said in a previous post: "Any bets on whether we'll have multi-touch Macs by 2008 if not sooner?"

I don't know what all of the benefits of multi-touch are. Neither do you.

One things pretty obvious though for those with common sense.

It's here to stay.

Multi-touch finger input today. Multi-touch hand input for larger devices tomorrow.

You seem to think that Apple is now the leader of mobile business, because they where the first company to introduce multi-touch.[quote]

Nope.

That's just what you want to make yourself believe that I believe.

They're nowhere near being the leader, nor do I expect them to be. They don't even expect to be the leader themselves.

But that won't keep them from trying, and with that attempt, we will see new innovations on the level of multi-touch technology brought to the masses by them AND others.

The only thing that I "think", nay... the only thing that I "know" in all of this is highlighted in bold below:

[QUOTE=-Trinity-;4141614]You seem to think that Apple is now the leader of mobile business, because they where the first company to introduce multi-touch.[quote]

In a small form factor, mass marketed mobile communications device, to be exact.

[QUOTE=-Trinity-;4141614]Do you think that they will now sell more phones than Nokia? Apple has one phone in their lineup, Nokia has quite many.

Again, nokia is undoubtedly the leader in TRADITIONAL mobile phone sales, and because they were unchecked, they could get away with selling the tasteless junk that they do more often than not (I'll refer you to the "interesting" pictures of nokia's "design" accomplishments earlier in this thread).

Apple's been in the phone game for 2 months and 1 week and will have sold 1 million of it's only phone product in less than 3 months with that product currently only being available in the U.S.

I ask you again, has ANY mobile phone manufacturer sold 1 million phones of 1 model in a 3 month period? Even if it's the market leader WITH international distribution? I'm waiting... (I'm actually interested in this as I do not know the answer).

Apple's innovations and IMO superior design style will only make things better for everyone, including themselves, competitors, and customers.

Look at the success of the LG Chocolate and it's "cool design". The success of that phone is in LARGE part because they incorporated the familiar Apple iPod click-wheel design.

Also, the iPhone is now marketed pricewise towards the mid-market mobile phone consumer at $399 (despite it's initial premium pricing).

I'd say that there is plenty of room for Apple to introduce something like an "iPhone Pro" at the old iPhone price point with lots of the features that people were initially complaining that the iPhone lacked.

How about an "iPhone mini" to take on the lower end consumer market.

Pay close attention to how Apple's iPod line has evolved over the past 6 years, because the iPhone line will do the same thing in less than half that time.

Bet on it.

Thats why they can experiment and produce some strange retro style phone that only appeals to limited crowd. Apple had to make their phone clean and sterile, so that it appeals to maximum amount of buyers. Some might think that it's dull looking. It's all in the eye of the beholder and you cannot argue about the looks.

Limited crowd? LOL!

Gee... I wonder what will happen when the "iPod touch" ships worldwide this month. I wonder if Apple is going to use it to introduce multi-touch input to the rest of the world before it introduces the iPhone to the the UK, Germany and France before the holidays.

Everyone's been playing checkers, and now Apple's come into the game and changed it to chess.

You have to be able to play a thinking man's game to beat a thinking man.

And everyone knows that Apple likes to Think Different.

I see that you're a newbie here on MacRumors, so I'll give you a quick lesson about Apple's design philosophy:

"Minimalist design, superior functionality".

Learn it and understand it.

Apple has proven that it works. Just look at the hundreds of thousands of U.S. iPhone owners that it has created in only 9 weeks, as well as the tens of million Mac users and 110 million iPod users worldwide.

There's a reason that Apple and it's Johnathon Ives consistently win design awards internationally, and also why most other technology companies do one of 2 things: a) copy Apple, or b) make ugly junk.

If you read non-bias reviews of the iPhone, then you'll notice that most of them say that Apples current implementation of multi-touch is really lame. Only zooming?!? Why didn'ty they come up with anything else? Isn't Apple supposed to be innovative and creative company?

Seriously, you need some mature perspective.

That argument is like me getting mad at a company that makes the first (whatever) that gets immediately accepted by an unprecedented amount of people, is it's first (whatever) in (whatever) market, and the only (whatever) available of it's kind, but I'm not happy because (whatever) could be better even though there's nothing else like it.

The iPhone, like many of Apple's products, is REVOLUTIONARY. First and foremost though, it's EVOLUTIONARY.

Why would they need to worry about doing more right now, when ALL of the competition is still doing less?

Do you really think that they don't have other multi-touch features either already finished or in development?

If you don't, then you (just like much of the competition) just don't "get" Apple. And that's how they like it.

A key factor in battle is the element of surprise.

Multi-touch input, even in it's current encarnation which is limited to zooming, was only Apple's first revolutionary revelation. More will be revealed when the competition tries to catch up.

Until then, Apple has NO reason to reveal anything.

Apple needed to put some new technology in mobile phone to be able to hype it so much.

Yeah. That's why Apple "put some new technology" in the iPhone... for the hype. :rolleyes:

Apple developed and FIRST implemented new multi-touch technology into it's new device for one simple reason... it could.

No one else can say that, because no one else has.

I'd prefer Apple's useful innovative technology over nokia's useless nasty "design" (colors and form factors) to "hype" a product anyday.

Speaking of hype, could you also explain me this "full internet" argument.

Web pages look the way they should on the iPhone, which is just like how they look on people's computers: http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/features.html?feature=safari

Not simple, dumbed down versions of the internet like only RSS feeds, text versions, or whatever.

I can see benefits of multi-touch in big screens (like 3D modeling), but not in small, low resolution mobile phone screen that it used with one hand while other is holding the phone.

I owned a Treo650 a couple of years ago, and guess what? Whenever I had to text with it, I had to use both hands. Whenever I see people using Sidekicks or many other devices, they're all using 2 hands as well.

With my iPhone, I only use one hand to hold the phone and use my thumb on that same hand to hit the onscreen keys. I remember texting friends that had also bought iPhones the weekend of the iPhone's release.

The majority of us had mastered the iPhone's keyboard within the first 48 hours using 2 hands (one to hold it and the index finger of the other to type).

Within a couple of days of that, most of us had mastered single handed text input using our thumb.

Of course, only people that have actually bought or used an iPhone (So you obviously can't -Trinity-) can verify that this is incredibly easy, and this makes your main argument about needing 2 hands to use the iPhone fall flat on it's face.

In regards to your comment about seeing multi-touch being useful with large displays, here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6379146923853181774).

ruutiveijari
Sep 7, 2007, 06:49 AM
As a matter of fact, it's evolutionary and revolutionary.

Just like Apple.
I still really don't understand how exactly this is Apple's invention? Multitouch technology has been around for about 25 years already and pinch/zoom with fingers -funtion about 10 years.

http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

(see T3)

garybUK
Sep 7, 2007, 08:55 AM
You cannot call Ericsson's or Nokia's garbage without these companies your iphone would never exist. These companies have pushed out real technology, read GSM, Bluetooth etc. etc.

PLEASE do not bitch about your overpriced nokia with a 2 year contract, get on a real network with competative rates and terms, Nokia or Ericsson don't dictate the contracts you lock into, only Apple has done this for some idiotic reason.

Plus Nokia will outsell the iPhone with theirs, thats a guarantee, seeing as they can deploy world wide in the blink of an eye.

That being said, i love the itunes store, i've bought too many tracks to switch now, i love the integration and the wifi store looks awesome, i'd probably get one if it had 3G when it comes to Europe.

-Trinity-
Sep 7, 2007, 10:51 AM
Damn. I wrote a long reply but it went to /dev/null because one bad click of the back button. Now I'm too tired of this HC fan boy. Here's short reply:


So go ahead now (or wait until Apple reaches the 1 millionth mark this month) and give me 100,000 links to people who are dissapointed with the iPhone.

That's just stupid... Do you think that every average Joe that bought the phone wrote a review of it. Search the apple forums and you'll find a ****load of posts about unresponsive touchscreen. And it's just a tip of an iceberg. MyOrigo's touchscreen lasted at least three months. The iPhone's screen showed symptoms right after the release. Who knows if we have an epidemic in our hands after 6 months.


FACT: NO nokia (or ANY) phone has a multi-touch interface at this point.


Thank god for that. I really wish that Nokia doesn't ruin it's new phone with multi-touch that has no proper uses in PHONE. Or maybe Nokia rides the multi-touch hypewave that was paid by Apple. What if they can do what Apple couldn't and figure out some real benefits of the multi-touch. Then Apple will be remembered as company that introduced the multi-touch, but was too dumb to use it properly. That would be a hard blow for a HC fan boy.


I ask you again, has ANY mobile phone manufacturer sold 1 million phones of 1 model in a 3 month period? Even if it's the market leader WITH international distribution? I'm waiting...
I dunno. Maybe Apple made a record here, but what's your point. In the end Nokia will sell more phones in Q/year. Only reason Apple sold so well is because the iPhone was more hyped and advertised than any product ever. Didn't Apple fake the numbers by including sold accessories as well? And does the numbers include the retuned phones also?


Pay close attention to how Apple's iPod line has evolved over the past 6 years, because the iPhone line will do the same thing in less than half that time.

Sorry but I don't know anything about iPods. Why should I care about iPods? I have some cheap 2GB player size of USB memorystick (works as memorystick) that plays OGGs and has radio. I don't really need it (because of my phone) so now my wife is using it now. iPods still can't play OGGs? Does they offer radio? I'm sure that Apple wants to release new iPhone version with small upgrades as often as possible and get money from the Cult of Apple.


Multi-touch input, even in it's current encarnation which is limited to zooming, was only Apple's first revolutionary revelation. More will be revealed when the competition tries to catch up.

BINGO!!! Now you admit that multi-touch is pretty much useless.

It's quite funny how your original agenda was "it's all about the OS" After we established the fact the the simplified finger use OS was done before the iPhone, you agenda suddenly switched to multi-touch. Not a word about the OS after that. Seven posts about how HUGE and important the multi-touch is and then you finally say the truth.

I don't give a **** what Apple may or may not implement in future. We are living in today. Unless you can give me exact date when some feature will be released and what that feature does. Otherwise your just speculating again and I can always counter-speculate that Nokia's new phone will kick iPhone's ass in every aspect, including multi-touch features.


Limited crowd? LOL!


I was referring to Nokia, so please read the whole chapter before posting your LOLs.


Web pages look the way they should on the iPhone, which is just like how they look on people's computers: http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/features.html?feature=safari

Not simple, dumbed down versions of the internet like only RSS feeds, text versions, or whatever.

Really?!? And no other mobile phone can do this?

I guess that my year old phone has "not full internet". Yesterday I enjoyed this page with my phone: http://www.ianai.net/jokes/bubble.swf
How well does is work with "full internet" iPhone? I also think that "internet" is more than just browsing web pages. Let's see what my old "not full internet" phone can do. I can:
-download file from the net like with desktop browsers.
-upload files to the net like with desktop browsers.
-sent email attachements other than pics and more than one per email.
-instant messaging and ability to send files to contacts.
-audio/video streaming
-telnet/SSH/(S)FTP/SCP/VNC
-bit torrent
-VoIP
-printing over network
(actually my 5 years old "definitely not full internet" phone could do most of this)

I'm sure that "full internet" iPhone can do all of this and even more. Good example of Apple's BS advertising.

And don't tell me that your iSaviour SJ will descend from heavens with an update that fixes all. Let's try to live now and not fantasize about better iFuture.


Of course, only people that have actually bought or used an iPhone (So you obviously can't -Trinity-) can verify that this is incredibly easy, and this makes your main argument about needing 2 hands to use the iPhone fall flat on it's face.

Did I say that you cannot use iPhone with one hand?!? I was refering to the general multi-touch features on big screen that are normally used with two hands of even 4 or 6 (multiple users). I would like to see how you pinch zoom in & out with one hand while holding the phone vertically. Do you glue the phone to your hand?

I often see kids driving a bicycle and writing text messages with one hand without constantly looking at the phone. Big advantage of num pad. Try to type with iPhone without looking. This actually can be done with touchscreen at certain level. Why didn't Apple include something like tenGo style text input. They already have the needed dictionary.
http://www.tengo.net/images/tengo_thumb/tengo_thumb_keybd.gif

I have in my phone same kind of predicting, auto-corecting, learning keyboard that the iPhone has. I find it very easy to use even with one hand. I also have landscape full screen keyboard with big buttons, but I think that the tenGo style typing is faster and easier as long as I use normal words and not slang.

Then I also have handwriting recognition that works pretty good with my handwriting, but I don't use it so much since it always requires two hands and stylus. Others don't.

Of course the handwritten notes (like painting with stylus) offer me the easiest way to make notes without looking what I'm scribbling. I use this lot in meetings and when making shopping lists or when i have to write some number down quickly and without typing errors.

Speaking of easy usage... How do you know that the iPhone is easier to use then for example... my phone? You don't even know what my phone is because I haven't told you. At least my touchscreen phone does now almost everything that all the iPhone fan boys are crying after in the "most wanted iPhone feature" threads. It's smaller than iPhone, all black with little chrome, comes with great controlls for gaming and is quite slim since there is no hardware keyboard. It has also nice totally customized interface, with big icons for all major application (in 5 tabs).

How do you know that it's not much better than iPhone?!? I had the freedom of choice when I selected my phone. I guess you didn't.

Now I'm tired of this BS, so I'll ask you to go to here to continue the original "who copied who" conversation:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone-no-seriously/

Engadget conversation is full of Apple fan boys who think that Apple invented PC, GUI, mouse, MP3, touchscreen, USB and pretty much everything. These fan boys get shot down pretty quickly.

BTW. What does the video got to do with Apple? It's not Apple's tech demo. And how many PRACTICAL uses do you see even for big screen in that video? Most of them is just cool not practical stuff. 3D Studio MAX with touchscreen interface would be usefull for me. But all the usefull stuff are not usable in mobile phones.

ruutiveijari
Sep 7, 2007, 11:23 AM
I ask you again, has ANY mobile phone manufacturer sold 1 million phones of 1 model in a 3 month period? Even if it's the market leader WITH international distribution? I'm waiting... (I'm actually interested in this as I do not know the answer).

Didn't see this question before but the answer is: yes. For example the Nokia 1100 (introduced late 2003) has sold over 200 million. That's 200 million in 48 months which means about 4,5 million per month. Razr sold in its first two years 50 million so about 2 million per month.

-Trinity-
Sep 7, 2007, 03:57 PM
I still really don't understand how exactly this is Apple's invention? Multitouch technology has been around for about 25 years already and pinch/zoom with fingers -funtion about 10 years.

http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

(see T3)

Interesting... So Apple didn't make the first multi-touch phone. Well, who cares... I think it's totally irrelevant who made the first phone, since the technology is older than the sun. But someone here seems to think that is't the most importaint thing.

megfilmworks
Sep 8, 2007, 09:14 AM
What a boring thread, filled with useless info. It's common knowledge that the iPhone has broken all records ever set by any cellphone. And it has the highest customer satisfaction of any product Apple has released. Check Reuters. Some people will never get it, and that's fine. Some people think we faked the moon landings as well.

ruutiveijari
Sep 8, 2007, 11:10 AM
It's common knowledge that the iPhone has broken all records ever set by any cellphone.
What are these records you talk about?

megfilmworks
Sep 10, 2007, 09:10 PM
What are these records you talk about?

Reuters, read the article from a few days ago. Surprised you haven't heard these statistics as they have been on all the major news networks as well.

Hobbymat
Sep 15, 2007, 12:14 PM
That MyOrigo technology sucked because of a major factor; it was based on heat chemical deposition and heat detection input. The similarities between the manner in one input on that device and the iPhone is what caused that unfounded rumor that Apple bought the technology from "a finnish firm":

Actually, this information is simply false. The MyOrigo phone did never use this kind of "heat sensing" technology in its touchscreen. It didn't use the capacitive touchscreen technology that iPhone uses, either. Instead it used a very cheap and simple technology: four pressure sensors on the display corners, which will not enable any multi-touch functionality nor a very precise location of the touch point.

It seems also likely that Windsor is not a very technical analyst, as this kind of heat-sensitive touchscreen technology is not known at all in the industry...


"But the source of the new brouhaha is London-based analyst Richard Windsor of Nomura International.

In his note, Windsor told clients that Apple bought rights to the screen technology by a Finnish firm that also saw the problem where usage sometimes led to dead areas over time."

I've recently talked to a former employee of MyOrigo and according to him Apple hasn't actually paid anything of the patented innovations that were used in MyOrigo, which has made the patent owners quite angry. Perhaps Windsor has gotten his false information from Apple, for obvious reasons.

But iPhone is still an astonishing device, even with its limited SMS/MMS messaging functionality.

whistler72
Sep 16, 2007, 08:51 AM
But iPhone is still an astonishing device, even with its limited SMS/MMS messaging functionality.


agreed

ruutiveijari
Sep 17, 2007, 01:11 AM
Reuters, read the article from a few days ago. Surprised you haven't heard these statistics as they have been on all the major news networks as well.
The latest iPhone article from Reuters I could find is from Sep 07. No mention of any records on that in that one.

I did find this though: ""While iSuppli has not collected historical information on this topic, it's likely that the speed of the iPhone's rise to competitive dominance in its segment is unprecedented in the history of the mobile-handset market," iSuppli said.". Is this what You're talking about?

branjosef
Oct 22, 2007, 05:14 PM
I thought this was nokia's answer to the iphone. If you ask me, they are kind of ripping off motorola. I heard that microsoft might be interested in replacing their Zune line with this model as they think it has more of an ipod feel to it


HA !!:D

CVV1
Nov 10, 2007, 11:16 AM
ugh...i cant remember the name, but I saw a phone that had a GUI just like the iphone's GUI. I can't remember the brans though :(

emotion
Nov 10, 2007, 11:18 AM
ugh...i cant remember the name, but I saw a phone that had a GUI just like the iphone's GUI. I can't remember the brans though :(

I saw a computer with exactly the same interface as MacOSX the other day. I think it was called Vista or something.

:)

I think you might get my point.

CVV1
Nov 10, 2007, 12:33 PM
I saw a computer with exactly the same interface as MacOSX the other day. I think it was called Vista or something.

:)

I think you might get my point.

http://products.vzw.com/index.aspx?id=rlp&site=next&phone=voyager


i think thats it ^^^

and i get your point lol

23am
Nov 10, 2007, 04:59 PM
I hope Nokia will stick to their poor menus, making Sony Ericsson and Apple iPhone a much better choice.
(No, I DON'T like Nokia ;))

CVV1
Nov 10, 2007, 06:25 PM
It might not be the one, there was one that looked even closer i think. Just google Touch Screen Cell Phone:o

eric55lv
Nov 10, 2007, 06:54 PM
Nokia is like Microsoft they copy everyone Apple,Samsung ect. so this is not a suprise to me

mikeymill
Nov 14, 2007, 12:55 PM
hmmm, nokia copy's everyone? not true! there the biggest phone company in the world! Nokia is just trying to make there technology better, with a true response touch screen, they have been working on touchscreen technology years before apple even though of an iphone, symbian is just structurally based on keypad input. I think the iphone looks amazing but compare it, build wise, to any Nokia phone and it will get blown out of the water x10! I hope Nokia releases a phone like the iphone because i know they will release it unlocked to all networks, unlike the iphone, i use all apple! desktop/laptop/ipod and really want an iphone for its data and texting! but its voice, unlike anything Nokia, is not that amazing.

-Mike

rickycooper
Nov 26, 2007, 05:00 AM
I m shocked after the release of iphone. Apple is not a mobile manufacturing company whereas nokia is big leading mobile company. The features introduced by apple in iphone r big blast which they showed in their first model only. Now nokia is copying. Shamfull my frnds. Where is the originality. U can buy N95 chinese for less then 150usd, which is copy of Nokia N95. This is where nokia stands. Copying the products. No new idea of their own. Poor very Poor...

zZAzrealZz
Feb 20, 2010, 11:41 PM
does anyone here have the game graal on there iphone or ipodtouch:apple::apple::apple::cool::cool::cool::D

greygray
Feb 21, 2010, 02:03 AM
This thread is just full of epic fail.

ReyesJonathan
Feb 28, 2010, 09:20 PM
looks pretty good to me

NPBTHO
Mar 9, 2010, 03:39 PM
It seems like smartphone design is converging upon this format. Just enjoy your own iPhone and stop worrying about what everyone else has.

mabaker
Mar 9, 2010, 05:33 PM
Rose from the ashes!

Funnily that Nokia phone from the ad never got launched ! At least not that I know of.

Philip Hall
Mar 12, 2010, 05:38 AM
Consumers do - and always will - punish poor copies like that one...

The iPhone more than a gadget, Nokia is just a piece of metal and plastic.

anthony.nicaud
Mar 12, 2010, 10:36 AM
Rose from the ashes!

Funnily that Nokia phone from the ad never got launched ! At least not that I know of.

It was a concept phone, but the final design is what we now know as the 5800 Xpressmusic (: I have one, it's not bad.. But, the Nokia build quality has dropped significantly in recent years. (i am talking hardware here people, Symbian is still good)

FaustsHausUK
Mar 12, 2010, 01:48 PM
That is poor.

'What Nokia always has and always delivers' or something. What? They've always copied Apple?

Totally off topic, but your username and avatar made me chuckle. "Tomorrow I'd tell her she's lost weight or that I liked what she'd done to her hair. Whichever seemed the most plausible."

YasminTiara
Mar 13, 2010, 11:42 AM
Nokia is the phone

ee0u30eb
Mar 14, 2010, 09:40 AM
It was only a matter of time for this to happen... take the LG cookie, a budget touch screen with nice little square icons, sound familiar?

The touch screen is clearly the users preferred method of interaction with their phones, and Nokia would be foolish to not push along these lines. The question now is - what unique features will define the next big mobile phone? The 3Gs is hardly unique in comparison to the 3G, and everyone is still awaiting the iPhone with removable memory.....

kdarling
Mar 14, 2010, 11:22 AM
The touch screen is clearly the users preferred method of interaction with their phones, and Nokia would be foolish to not push along these lines.

Sure, but there's still a huge market for non-touch phones.

There are still many people who don't like touchscreens (or smartphones for that matter) and who prefer a simple numeric keypad phone.

For instance, my wife dislikes touch phones, I think partly because she's too vain to wear reading glasses all the time. :rolleyes:

She just wants a dedicated keypad for dialing, and buttons for answer/hangup, without having to look at the screen. Her ideal smartphone would have programmable physical buttons to launch about six primary apps.

I understand her desire, because it's similar to the way that most people feel about TV remote controls. All-touchscreen remotes are nowhere near as popular as ones that also have physical buttons. Most people memorize the position of controls so they don't have to waste time looking for them.