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MacRumors
Aug 30, 2007, 10:15 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

While an earlier report today (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/29/volkswagen-apple-working-on-icar/) claimed that Volkswagen and Apple were working on integrating Apple products into future Volkswagen models, reader Chris Bangle notes that Apple may have been working on control interfaces for at least one upcoming luxury car.

CarMagazine.co.uk has a feature (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/special_feature.php) about the upcoming Jaguar XF (http://www.jaguarxf.com), and an interview (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_official_picture.php?sid=964&page=1) with the designer, Ian Callum.

The interview concludes with Callum talking about the new Jaguar's gearshift mechanism ("JaguarDrive"), and claims that Apple has had some involvement with their design:
‘Step inside and the starter button starts to pulsate like a heartbeat. Press it and the car comes to life. The air vents rise up and the JaguarDrive Selector pops up. We took so much comment on the old J-gate change and felt it was time for a change. The dial takes up less space, too. We have been working with Apple on control interfaces.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/08/30/xf_300.jpg


A description (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_official_picture.php?sid=963&page=5) of the JaguarDrive Selector describes it as follows:

The JaguarDrive Selector replaces a conventional gearstick. Sitting flush with the centre console, it rises electrically when the ignition is turned on. It's a metallic rotary dial (not dissimilar to BMW's iDrive control) that twists to change gear on the standard six-speed automatic box, rotating easily between P, R, N and D. We've tested it and its action is pleasant and seamless. Importantly, it frees up oodles of extra space on the console.

Apple was also the focus (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/17/apple-developing-car-navigation-system/) of an earlier rumor that Apple was working on car navigation and sound systems in partnership with Mercedes for a 2009 launch.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/30/apple-designing-car-interfaces/)



Aldyn
Aug 30, 2007, 10:17 AM
it was only a matter of time.

i had always thought to myself, how cool would it be if all the buttons in the car glowed when you touched them like the 3g ipod / power button on the cinema displays. i'm excited to see what's truly up.

gugy
Aug 30, 2007, 10:17 AM
cool!

I hope Audi, Mercedes and BMW are also working with Apple.
It's time to upgrade my old car.

quigleybc
Aug 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
THAT"S AWESOME.....for wealthy people...:rolleyes:

stcroixsailor
Aug 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
sounds cool-my dad has a bmw with iDrive- it's clunky and not easy to use at all. Maybe this will be better.

totolad
Aug 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
Lets hope that the system is going to be much better than the BMW I-Drive system which I have to use every day. The system is unresponsive and stupid in the way that you have to control nearly the entire car through it. Perhaps VW Audi, will have a better design?

Antares
Aug 30, 2007, 10:20 AM
I want this in my next car!

Apple improves and simplifies interfaces....They could do wonders for the automobile industry. It's no surprise why they changed to Apple Inc....the company is really branching out.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 10:24 AM
Finally... Ive been posting this since Tuesday and have been mocked and ridiculed... Finally someone realised that Apple and Jaguar worked together.

I would love some recognition.

iHerzeleid
Aug 30, 2007, 10:24 AM
Well I guess Chris Bangle's SCREAMING got heard.

~Shard~
Aug 30, 2007, 10:24 AM
cool!

I hope Audi, Mercedes and BMW are also working with Apple.
It's time to upgrade my old car.

I'm sure Jaguar isn't the only one. And if they are, surely other companies will be interested now that the news is out. Hopefully we will see more design improvements of this nature in the future, regardless of whether it's Apple's doing or not.

Oh, and posting a one-word reply, then going back and editing it in a sad attempt to get the first post in the thread? Pretty weak - and you failed in any case... :p :cool:

Chupa Chupa
Aug 30, 2007, 10:25 AM
cool!

I hope Audi, Mercedes and BMW are also working with Apple.
It's time to upgrade my old car.

Especially BMW. Their iDrive and iPod adapter needs SERIOUS UI work, especially the iPod adapter which offers no quick and easy way to go from A to Z.

El Capitano
Aug 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
Isn't Chris Bangle head of design for BMW?!

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
From the article i assumed that Jaguar helped design the Sat Nav and the interfaces on the touchscreen screen on the dash... Someone will need to get in touch with Jaguar and ask them for more info..... Apple have certainly kept this quiet

Pictor
Aug 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
Chris Bangle? Wouldn't be the same Chris Bangle of the BMW `Bangle Butt' fame?

It's odd that Jaguar is working with Apple since Ford (Jaguars parent) has been working with MSFT.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 10:28 AM
Isn't Chris Bangle head of design for BMW?!

Yes he is... Sadly im not the real Chris Bangle :( Ive been screaming it on the forums... Not the real Chris Bangle...

iJawn108
Aug 30, 2007, 10:29 AM
Apple is becoming the lotus of the tech world. They are the go to people for design.

Corrosive vinyl
Aug 30, 2007, 10:29 AM
it definitely seems as though computer has been extracted from apple.
so, if i want the latest :apple: products i have to switch phone services and buy a new car? whatever happened to simplicity?

AdMan2007
Aug 30, 2007, 10:32 AM
Finally... Ive been posting this since Tuesday and have been mocked and ridiculed... Finally someone realised that Apple and Jaguar worked together.

I would love some recognition.

LOL. You were screaming (literally) for some attention. Maybe it was the double-posts or the CAPS THAT SCREAMED AT EVERYONE, but either way it was a good find.

But seriously. Next time, lose the CAPS!

zombitronic
Aug 30, 2007, 10:33 AM
C'mon, AAPL, buy me a new car!!

Yateball
Aug 30, 2007, 10:36 AM
*Fingers Crossed* for this in the Pontiac G5!!

hahaha I know I'm dreaming, but dammit don't wake me up!

plumbingandtech
Aug 30, 2007, 10:38 AM
Come on BMW!

Drop that stupid iDrive and put a REAL i(phone)Drive in!

zoetropeuk
Aug 30, 2007, 10:39 AM
LOL. You were screaming (literally) for some attention. Maybe it was the double-posts or the CAPS THAT SCREAMED AT EVERYONE, but either way it was a good find.

But seriously. Next time, lose the CAPS!

WTF does using CAPS have to do with screaming at people, I've never understood it and never will. It makes no difference whether the text is capitalised or not, just GET OVER IT ALREADY.

BornAgainMac
Aug 30, 2007, 10:40 AM
*Fingers Crossed* for this in the Pontiac G5!!

hahaha I know I'm dreaming, but dammit don't wake me up!

Yes, Pontiac G5 next Tuesday for me. ha ha.
I am glad Apple is stretching their legs. It is time to change that auto industry and bring some innovation.

motulist
Aug 30, 2007, 10:40 AM
it definitely seems as though computer has been extracted from apple.
so, if i want the latest :apple: products i have to switch phone services and buy a new car? whatever happened to simplicity?

I assume you're joking, because that is some of the faultiest logic I've heard in a long time.

IEatApples
Aug 30, 2007, 10:41 AM
I've always felt that :apple: should have a design department that could be contracted by other companies to help them with design! :)

I want the world to look & function better (…an improved GUI if you will)! :D :p :cool:

zombitronic
Aug 30, 2007, 10:43 AM
Finally... Ive been posting this since Tuesday and have been mocked and ridiculed... Finally someone realised that Apple and Jaguar worked together.

I would love some recognition.

I hear ya, man. I've been reading tons of this Apple vehicle interface news elsewhere for over a month now. Not a lot of concrete info, but still bits and pieces. To be fair, MR did post (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/17/apple-developing-car-navigation-system/) about it in June, but I'd still like to see the info collected here, at least on Page 2.

gugy
Aug 30, 2007, 10:45 AM
I'm sure Jaguar isn't the only one. And if they are, surely other companies will be interested now that the news is out. Hopefully we will see more design improvements of this nature in the future, regardless of whether it's Apple's doing or not.

Oh, and posting a one-word reply, then going back and editing it in a sad attempt to get the first post in the thread? Pretty weak - and you failed in any case... :p :cool:

hahaha, I did not know competing to be the first post in Macrumors is the ultimatum nerd dream. Congrats to you!:D

Consultant
Aug 30, 2007, 10:46 AM
First the iPhone, then the iCar, then the iConquer !

=)

corywoolf
Aug 30, 2007, 10:47 AM
It's official, another Apple vs. Microsoft venture. Microsoft has already partnered with Ford and is testing it's car media center interface, now Apple is going to steal the show. It's about time Apple got into making car stereo/ navigation products. They should have been doing it years ago, the iPod has always sucked in the car. Even with my Alpine interface, it is not the quality controls/interface of Apple. All those FM transmitters are pretty lame too. The auto industry just doesn't innovate much when it comes to the entertainment aspect of cars.

fanbrain
Aug 30, 2007, 10:54 AM
(not dissimilar to BMW's iDrive control) ??

Not dissimilar? WTF? This writing is as confusing as the iDrive...

Good english talker write there. :rolleyes:

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 10:54 AM
he key thing here is What Does CONTROL INTERFACES mean... Is it the buttons and controls, or is the GUI and user experience stuff on the touch screen display. These two pics should brighten up this thread.

macsamillion
Aug 30, 2007, 10:55 AM
Yes and yes. Chris Bangle is the head of BMW styling, and yes he has been ridiculed in the automotive press--by people who wouldn't know design if it hit them in the face--for the so called "Bangle Butt." Why do we empower people, who studied journalism, to tell us about design. It's kind of like having a cook tell how great Unix could be. Strother MacMinn the only automotive journalist that was qualified to tell us about design, also practiced it, and taught it--interestingly was one of Bangle's teachers--died 14 years ago. I can assure you that MacMinn would have understood the BMW surface development and would have appreciated it.

As for 'Fake Chris Bangle's' great observation, I have often wondered why one could buy a car as technically advanced as the Prius with on screen graphics as crude as a PC's, on the Nav computer. Hello Toyota and others. We live in a post OSX world. Could it be that the real problem is that the majority of people buying cars are just too conservative, leaving the door wide open for an Apple Automotive Consultancy????

bretm
Aug 30, 2007, 10:57 AM
LOL. You were screaming (literally) for some attention. Maybe it was the double-posts or the CAPS THAT SCREAMED AT EVERYONE, but either way it was a good find.

But seriously. Next time, lose the CAPS!

And the post could've actually included some sort of info. Like what they were working on, etc. Maybe even a link to the thread where he was referring. All he had was a broken link.

motulist
Aug 30, 2007, 10:57 AM
I hope Apple's next product is the iVote. That way our votes would actually count, instead of just Diebold's owners deciding who wins elections.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 11:01 AM
Yes and yes. Chris Bangle is the head of BMW styling, and yes he has been ridiculed in the automotive press--by people who wouldn't design if it hit them in the face--for the so called "Bangle Butt." Why do we empower people, who studied journalism, to tell us about design. It's kind of like having a cook tell how great Unix could be. Strother MacMinn the only automotive journalist that was qualified to tell us about design, also practiced it, and taught it--interestingly was one of Bangle's teachers--died 14 years ago. I can assure you that Mac would have understood the BMW surface development and would have appreciated it.

As for 'Fake Chris Bangle's' great observation, I have often wondered why one could buy a car a technically advanced as the Prius with on screen graphics as crude as a PC's, on the Nav computer. Hello Toyota and others. We live in a post OSX world. Could it be that the real problem is that the majority of people buying cars are just too conservative, leaving the door wide open for an Apple Automotive Consultancy????


Are you reading my mind?... Thats exactly what i think... The automotive industry is a complete mess and so are the journalists. Cheap Plastics are horrible... And even bentleys and jaguars are full of it. So little effort goes into the design of small but important details.. Only a few car compnies pay attention to these. e.g BMW... Even the Audi A3 isnt brillaint... So so plasticky Apple needs to work with Jaguar and BMW very very closely. hmmm stainless steel macbook pro like dashboard... How lovely.

savar
Aug 30, 2007, 11:02 AM
Cool...I guess. Two thoughts:

1) Why Jaguar? They make kinda lousy cars. Why not BMW/Lexus/Acura/Benz/Infiniti or any other of the car companies that make sweet cars?

2) While I like Apple design in general...if everything in my life had that glossy glass-over-black-plastic sheen I think I might go nuts. In other words, the Apple aesthetic can be taken too far.

slicecom
Aug 30, 2007, 11:14 AM
This is great news for BMW fans. iDrive is HORRIBLE! It takes like 20 click and turns to turn on the friggin air vents! (Ok i exaggerated a little, but it really is a stupid interface!).

Horseface
Aug 30, 2007, 11:22 AM
Finally... Ive been posting this since Tuesday and have been mocked and ridiculed... Finally someone realised that Apple and Jaguar worked together.

I would love some recognition.


You want recognition?

Isn't being the one who single-handedly ruined the BMW aesthetic with overly busy just-for-the-sake-of-it, up-its-own-arse, seriously misguided and coke-fuelled design not enough for you, Christopher?

:D

ClassicMac247
Aug 30, 2007, 11:22 AM
It would make sense for apple to create a surround sound audio system for automobiles, it would make mores sense if it could be fitted into any cars not just the expensive partners they are working with.

p8ntballguy
Aug 30, 2007, 11:29 AM
I always thought apple could slap appleTV in a car, give it a good onscreen interface, a lil different than on the appleTV currently, an easier one to navigate with touch, + radio controller. Every time you pull in your driveway, it would sync all your music and movies.......perfect.

arn
Aug 30, 2007, 11:33 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

Finally... Ive been posting this since Tuesday and have been mocked and ridiculed... Finally someone realised that Apple and Jaguar worked together.

I would love some recognition.

I hear ya, man. I've been reading tons of this Apple vehicle interface news elsewhere for over a month now. Not a lot of concrete info, but still bits and pieces. To be fair, MR did post (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/17/apple-developing-car-navigation-system/) about it in June, but I'd still like to see the info collected here, at least on Page 2.

You should submit news or tidbits. We miss things of course and everything submitted we don't post but you shouldn't assume the editors see everything or even read all the comments in the discussion.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 11:35 AM
Found this on Auto express

What’s more, proximity sensors trigger the glovebox to open or the interior lights to dim with just the wave of a hand, while there’s classy phosphor blue cabin illumination. So it’s clear Jaguar has pulled out all the stops.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/210192/jaguar_xf.html


Proximity sensors.... Sounds like one or two apple patents.... Sounds like the kind of thing they would do.... I thiink about a year ago with one of the touchscreen apple patents there was something about hovering your finger over the screen and buttons would be enlarged on the screen... It was like touch screen but without touching.... Sounds familiar to this Jaguar stuff.


Dont worry I dont really want any recognition.... I just hope this ends on on appleinsider or at least engadget....

eatapc
Aug 30, 2007, 11:39 AM
Yes he is... Sadly im not the real Chris Bangle :( Ive been screaming it on the forums... Not the real Chris Bangle...
Odd. I looked up your forum profile. It says: Location: Kent. Interests: BMW. Occupation: Chief of design @ BMW designworks.

Is your profile a joke, then? The real Chris Bangle might not be amused.

As to the criticisms of the Bangle Butt styling and iDrive dysfunctionality, it's ludicrous for people on this forum to blame journalists. Journalists' criticisms were pretty mild compared to BMW owners and dealers.

Journalists may not be schooled in styling and industrial design, but then what do computer geeks know about journalism? ;) Critics do not need to practice within the profession they write about.

grumpy
Aug 30, 2007, 11:49 AM
Cool...I guess. Two thoughts:

1) Why Jaguar? They make kinda lousy cars. Why not BMW/Lexus/Acura/Benz/Infiniti or any other of the car companies that make sweet cars?



I find my Jag quite enjoyable, reliable and distinct from the bland monochromatic competitor offerings that fill the parking lot. But, that's just me.

But, moving forward, I see from the pictures and the system description that apparently the pure enjoyment of driving a manual has been bred out of the race.

Horseface
Aug 30, 2007, 11:52 AM
Odd. I looked up your forum profile. It says: Location: Kent. Interests: BMW. Occupation: Chief of design @ BMW designworks.

Is your profile a joke, then? The real Chris Bangle might not be amused.

As to the criticisms of the Bangle Butt styling and iDrive dysfunctionality, it's ludicrous for people on this forum to blame journalists. Journalists' criticisms were pretty mild compared to BMW owners and dealers.

Journalists may not be schooled in styling and industrial design, but then what do computer geeks know about journalism? ;) Critics do not need to practice within the profession they write about.

I'm hoping the real Chris Bangle is so unamused that he drives himself into the sea. Then he won't pollute the world with any more of his eyesores.

:D

Chris needs to take his head out of his arse and realise that people have to LIKE what he designs. He can't just waffle on about some high concept and that 'some people just don't get it', because what does that matter if it results in something ugly and unappealing?

Beep beep.

Anyway. iDrive is like a bad joke and should be buried.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 12:12 PM
Oh come on... The 5 series is awesome, the M3, 335i, M6 how can you be so harsh to these brilliant machines. I admit the 7 series is not nice but BMW bashing gets boring after a while.:(:(:(:(:(

EagerDragon
Aug 30, 2007, 12:22 PM
Well this is interesting, expecially if you remember that M$ is also making software for cars.

I can see a portable Mac with 4 doors, authomatic transmission, roomy trunk and your choice of 3 engines. Maybe Intel will start making engines.

hooch
Aug 30, 2007, 12:25 PM
he key thing here is What Does CONTROL INTERFACES mean... Is it the buttons and controls, or is the GUI and user experience stuff on the touch screen display. These two pics should brighten up this thread.

What if they added a track pad on the top of that knob and have a pointer on the monitor? That would be a very sleek, wouldn't it? Eliminates finger prints anyway.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 12:31 PM
What if they added a track pad on the top of that knob and have a pointer on the monitor? That would be a very sleek, wouldn't it? Eliminates finger prints anyway.

Can you remember the James Bond with the BMW 7 series... I think it was tomorrow never dies... The sony ericsson and when it opened up there was a touch pad which controlled his car. How cool would that be. Being able to drive your car from your iphone.

But controlling the touchscreen from the dial is also a brilliant idea. But our Jaguar XJ had touchscreen and it didn't really get that dirty. Finger prints wernt as bad as you would expect.

glennyboiwpg
Aug 30, 2007, 12:41 PM
WTF does using CAPS have to do with screaming at people, I've never understood it and never will. It makes no difference whether the text is capitalised or not, just GET OVER IT ALREADY.

Its a well known and well followed fact that using CAPS in internet text (email, im, etc) means your SCREAMING AT THE PERSON.

It doesn't matter if you like this or not. If you use CAPS in your MESSAGES people will get upset at you. END OF STORY!

eatapc
Aug 30, 2007, 12:49 PM
Oh come on... the M3, 335i, M6 how can you be so harsh to these brilliant machines.
I own an M3 and it is brilliant -- but it came out prior to flame surfacing, big butts and iDrive. (Thankfully.)

BWM was the first to offer an iPod interface, BTW, and I snapped it up as soon as it was available (which was many months after it was announced). As an interface it's a clever salvage job, but it works. When the dealer put it in they installed the wrong thing -- an AUX input cable for which there was no control. I asked if they had tried it out before letting me drive off with a non-working part installed. Nope. No one at the dealer had an iPod. Ah, the BMW dealer network in NA was never a strong suit for the brand.

Obviously the great thing about Apple design is the simplicity. For buttons, the "less is more" aesthetic applies. But in a car's dashboard and console, that's not a good thing. For me, functionality in this case is defined by what it doesn't do -- take away from safety and the driving experience. Eyes on the road, hands on the wheel. Can Apple clean up the driver/dashboard interface without creating driver distractions?

AlmostThere
Aug 30, 2007, 12:54 PM
(not dissimilar to BMW's iDrive control) ??

Not dissimilar? WTF? This writing is as confusing as the iDrive...

Good english talker write there. :rolleyes:

FWIW, 'not dissimilar' is a reasonably common British-English phrase.

Considering the site is a UK one, using such a phrase is not unreasonable.

Tsurisuto
Aug 30, 2007, 12:54 PM
I remember a while back when Steve Jobs was being interviewed. He said that Apple's rival wasn't Microsoft... it was Sony. A company that Jobsy admired most, (especially how broad Sony's reach was). I would not be shocked if Apple branched out into more areas than just music and computing.

ErikCLDR
Aug 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
That sounds cool. I love Jag's and Apple :)

But why Jaguar. Honestly who buys a Jaguar. Most people that go out and buy a luxury car get a BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes... not a Jag.

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 01:04 PM
I remember a while back when Steve Jobs was being interviewed. He said that Apple's rival wasn't Microsoft... it was Sony. A company that Jobsy admired most, (especially how broad Sony's reach was). I would not be shocked if Apple branched out into more areas than just music and computing.

Robotic dogs called ibo

iGav
Aug 30, 2007, 01:13 PM
he key thing here is What Does CONTROL INTERFACES mean... Is it the buttons and controls, or is the GUI and user experience stuff on the touch screen display. These two pics should brighten up this thread.

Judging by the state of the dash, I'm presuming it means the actual GUI. Or at least I hope it does. :p

It'll be interesting to see whether it's as good as the benchmark MMI though.

jrhone
Aug 30, 2007, 01:16 PM
That sounds cool. I love Jag's and Apple :)

But why Jaguar. Honestly who buys a Jaguar. Most people that go out and buy a luxury car get a BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes... not a Jag.


EXACTLY....and while Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes tell Apple that they need no help with designing cars, thats what they do successfully, Jaguar is BEGGING for an edge on the competition, and just might take a chance to earn some interest for their cars...I am sure its not who Apple wanted, but who wanted Apple....

Chris Bangle
Aug 30, 2007, 01:34 PM
I just have one question.. Why do nearly all Japanese cars have that stupid digital clock which looks like its from the 70's.. Even the latest lexus GS or whatever its called has it and thats one of the most advanced cars ever made? Thats like Apple selling the iphone with windows mobile instead of OS X... (but windows mobile isnt too bad) unlike the blasted digital clocks.... Get rid of them ... Pleeeese.:mad:

farmboy
Aug 30, 2007, 01:38 PM
THAT"S AWESOME.....for wealthy people...:rolleyes:

Since most cars shift automatic transmissions electronically, this technology should be adaptable to almost all automatics, regardless of price.

Plutonius
Aug 30, 2007, 01:44 PM
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83733&d=1188487786

The first thing Apple has to do is put the steering wheel on the correct side of the car :).

Eduardo1971
Aug 30, 2007, 01:52 PM
Well I guess Chris Bangle's SCREAMING got heard.

Yeah, just like a whining, petulant kid.

pieman02
Aug 30, 2007, 02:03 PM
FWIW, 'not dissimilar' is a reasonably common British-English phrase.

Considering the site is a UK one, using such a phrase is not unreasonable.

Exactly, it made perfect sense to me when I read it...

OSX in a car would be pretty freakin awesome...it would be much more modern looking and responsive probably then current ones, matching most of these modern-looking cars :rolleyes:

junker
Aug 30, 2007, 02:06 PM
Firstly, why can't Apple pursue this at a more affordable auto level - honda's, nissans, toyotas...

Secondly, my dad was a VW mechanic in 70's and 80's; I lived in a pop-up camper bus, with my family in the 70's, for 6 mos. I've owned 4 myself and I've known several friends who've owned the newer versions. They are CRAP! Personally, I'll never own a VW again - they are **** with polish. For example, last night I saw a newer Jetta (maybe 04 or 05)... with it's rear driving lights out. I mean - come on!!!

FFS, Why VW? I can understand the BMW, Jag, associative snobbery/luxury implications - but VW???? Ugh.

I don't get the who-ha about it all anyway. I have a $100.00 auto-charging ipod dock that I can switch between any car I want (also works with my portable Milwaukee jobsite radio)

I believe we should have FW/USB plugs in cars already built in.

Anyway, I guess that's all about that...

And btw, who doesn't know that typing in all caps is a form of yelling??? Sometimes, I hate people alot.

Man, I gotta get that anti-people campaign started.

;)

CaptainScarlet
Aug 30, 2007, 02:09 PM
Just what we need, another part of a car that only a dealership can repair....ugh.....

otter008
Aug 30, 2007, 02:17 PM
Its a well known and well followed fact that using CAPS in internet text (email, im, etc) means your SCREAMING AT THE PERSON.

It doesn't matter if you like this or not. If you use CAPS in your MESSAGES people will get upset at you. END OF STORY!

Will you all please stop yelling!? I have a hangover! :p

Jaguar design used to be timeless and gorgeous, and then for the last several years every new Jaguar I see looks like a dog's ugly sister. What up with that?!

CWallace
Aug 30, 2007, 02:20 PM
Jaguar design used to be timeless and gorgeous, and then for the last several years every new Jaguar I see looks like a dog's ugly sister. What up with that?!

Ford (rightfully) put their initial efforts into fixing the mechanicals. I know for a bit there was a decent business putting old Jaguar bodies on new Jaguar chassis.

They've gotten better over the years, but I do agree they lack that sense of...elegance...the pre-Ford models had. But then, they also last more then a few months, so unless you want a "garage queen", that's a plus I imagine. :D

~Shard~
Aug 30, 2007, 02:27 PM
hahaha, I did not know competing to be the first post in Macrumors is the ultimatum nerd dream. Congrats to you!:D

Not sure why you're congratulating me, but yes, you'd be surprised, it is a very serious deal to many people here! Never understood the concept myself... As you say, must be a "nerd thing"... ;)

The first thing Apple has to do is put the steering wheel on the correct side of the car :).

And for the benefit of many of our Asian, European, etc. members, please educate them on which side that is... :p :cool:

gugy
Aug 30, 2007, 03:02 PM
it seems that you are the only one paying attention to it.
I just posted a comment and you said I was trying to be the first on some sort of nerd competition. That's sounds funny to me.:D:D:D

G.Kirby
Aug 30, 2007, 03:08 PM
A nice bonus for the Jag but i can't see may sales from just this addition. If the car is a good car, looks sweet, handles well it will sell. If the car is a pony i can't see an apple designed control system selling the car.

That said, what about the rest of the car, a 100% Apple-mobile that has the carbon footprint of an ant :D

steve_hill4
Aug 30, 2007, 03:16 PM
No, no, no. Jaguar? Don't Apple realise this is about 5 years out of date now. What are we going to get, pinstripes down the side of the car? ;)

morespce54
Aug 30, 2007, 03:19 PM
...We miss things of course and everything submitted we don't post but you shouldn't assume the editors see everything or even read all the comments in the discussion.

WHAT??? ;)

madmaxmedia
Aug 30, 2007, 03:21 PM
Yeah, but will it have wifi and Safari? ;)


I like Bangle's designs, although they are obviously very polarizing. Not all of them are equally successful, but I actually do like the 7, the Z, and the new 3.

raykhrud
Aug 30, 2007, 04:18 PM
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Really, it is stupid. My father owns an S-Type and in some years he will need to vhange it for something else. And for what? For this one? No way, it doesn't even have manual gearbox.

twoodcc
Aug 30, 2007, 04:35 PM
this sounds great and all, but i want that apple navigation system!

MacFly123
Aug 30, 2007, 05:15 PM
it definitely seems as though computer has been extracted from apple.
so, if i want the latest :apple: products i have to switch phone services and buy a new car? whatever happened to simplicity?

It is all about the future!!! We will be connected to a digital lifestyle everywhere, our homes, cars, and mobile... Apple understands this that is why they changed. It is not that they are neglecting computing because all of these things are really computers. It is just how they are integrated into our lives and how we use them.

A classic "computer" will probably always be in our homes, but we also need these things in our cars and mobile. So Apple has the computers, now the iPhone.... cars are next :)

apple_iBoy
Aug 30, 2007, 05:22 PM
While I do see some interesting uses for this type of system in a car, I like some things to NOT be controlled via a centralized interface.

When it's hot in the car, I like to twist a dedicated knob into the blue. When I want to change the radio station, I like to hit a button that I know will change the station and only change the station, anytime I press it, without any modifiers or menu selections or anything else.

Like all other advancements, I think this type of interface is going to trickle down to the Hyundais and Kias (which are on the move up-market just like Honda and Toyota once were) and all the other entry-level vehicles.

I guess my comments are more about the trend in auto interfaces generally, not unnecessarily this system which seems to focus on gear selection (is that really an interface in need of refinement in an automatic vehicle??)


I think there may come a time when it's actually cheaper for a car company to just plop a single interface computer screen to control a car's functions, on an otherwise barren (and easier to manufacture and assemble) instrument panel.

At that point, I think the high-end carmakers are going to return with a sense of nostalgia to the instrument panels of old, with the luxury and refinement of dedicated buttons and switches that each carry out their own individual tasks!

I guess these comments are more applicable to the general trend of car interfaces lately, not necessarily this particular system for gear selection (is that an interface really in need of refinement in an automatic vehicle??)

BTW
Aug 30, 2007, 06:02 PM
Automobiles and robots are the next place for OSX. Microsoft already has the lead in both sectors.

Unfortunately iRobot and iCar are both already taken. :(

CaptainWOW
Aug 30, 2007, 06:29 PM
I was actually just reading about this in my latest copy ofCar and Driver.

I don't know, I like what Callum has done with his new Jags. The XK (and XKR) are really nice looking cars. The new XF looks to be a winner too - it's much more advanced than the other Jaguars that we've seen lately. And it certainly is different from the other cars in the automakers stable.

Ian Callum seems to have a knack for taking dying British car companies and putting some life back in them. Look at what he did with Aston Martin.

The XF is set to replace the S-Type in 2009.

jettredmont
Aug 30, 2007, 07:01 PM
Step inside and the starter button starts to pulsate like a heartbeat. Press it and the car comes to life. The air vents rise up and the JaguarDrive Selector pops up. We took so much comment on the old J-gate change and felt it was time for a change. The dial takes up less space, too. We have been working with Apple on control interfaces.


Something seems odd about this whole paragraph (which stands alone in the interview in this way). The English seems incorrect and imprecise. For instance "We took so much comment on ..." doesn't sound right. Maybe it's just a British-ism.

In any case, I think an alternate understanding of that sentence would be that they either took cues from Apple's products (these seem obvious cues to pilfer, although one wonders why no one else had before) or that, like Apple, they've been working on control interfaces.

Until we have a second source saying they worked together, or a more positive statement from this source, I don't think there's anything to be all excited about here.

louiek
Aug 30, 2007, 07:01 PM
I will only buy this Jag if it comes in matte.

Darkroom
Aug 30, 2007, 07:18 PM
*sigh* it still makes me a little sad that "Apple Computer" is no more... cell phones and now cars? when are they going to open the Apple Bank or Apple Jewlery store... perhaps they could make an new soft drink to compete with pepsi/coca cola. :(

(i know they're not really producing the cars, i'm just being dramatic)

Dagless
Aug 30, 2007, 07:34 PM
Not a manual drive? I don't want to drive a go-kart :(

A Pittarelli
Aug 30, 2007, 07:38 PM
i hope they continue design in car product! my VW could use apples touch

NicP
Aug 30, 2007, 08:09 PM
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83733&d=1188487786

The first thing Apple has to do is put the steering wheel on the correct side of the car :).

Looks correct to me :D

CaptainWOW
Aug 30, 2007, 08:16 PM
Not a manual drive? I don't want to drive a go-kart :(

The XF is actually an automated Manual. The car has paddle shifters, something very common place in today's market.

Also, some more pictures of the XF.

Project
Aug 30, 2007, 08:52 PM
In terms of ICE, the Apple TV interface would work a treat.

SiliconAddict
Aug 30, 2007, 09:48 PM
No. Absolutely NOT, and for the same reason I will never buy a car that has a MS OS in it. Standardized OS's which MS and Apple have lead hackers to more easily crack said OS then a proprietary one created by a single auto maker that no one can download specs on off the net. Its an unknown. That isn't to say that its crack proof. However any additional barriers you put in place are a good thing™ even if its simply security through obscurity.

liberty4all
Aug 30, 2007, 10:04 PM
Why did Apple take so long to start exploring car computer functionality? Hopefully we will see products soon...

JBaker122586
Aug 30, 2007, 10:10 PM
Jaguar?
At least work with a decent car Apple...

macsamillion
Aug 30, 2007, 10:29 PM
Did any of you ever read this article about a guy who found a Russian Tatra that was--if memory serves--originally built as a fly by wire prototype. Later the car was converted to a conventional control system. The guy in the article found the derelict car and converted it back to fly by wire using a Mac G4 as the control head. He did a beautiful job. It's an interesting read:

http://tinyurl.com/2x9yc

As for the 'Bangle Butt' the surface development makes much more sense when you see it this way:

http://tinyurl.com/2497tr

The real Chris Bangle has something of an off beat sense of humor... Are you the real Chris Bangle? But on the on the other hand the real CB wouldn't put 'Head of Design' in an e-mail address.

freeny
Aug 30, 2007, 10:37 PM
Slow day in apple news Im guessing :confused:

Eduardo1971
Aug 30, 2007, 10:39 PM
Firstly, why can't Apple pursue this at a more affordable auto level - honda's, nissans, toyotas...I can understand the BMW, Jag, associative snobbery/luxury implications - but VW???? Ugh.
... Sometimes, I hate people alot...


Oh brother.:rolleyes: Get over yourself. Now take a deep breath and seek some counselling.

You too, are being snobby by having a subjective viewpoint that Apple pursue their possible interface with Asian cars.

I also enjoy how you associate people who drive European automobiles as some how being snobs (yes, I own a BMW-big deal).

UMHurricanes34
Aug 30, 2007, 11:05 PM
All I want is a user-replaceable Double-DIN Apple iHeadUnit with multi-touch and direct and full interface iPhone/iPod support. 6 Disc CD changer would be splendid also.

JeffDM
Aug 30, 2007, 11:24 PM
I just have one question.. Why do nearly all Japanese cars have that stupid digital clock which looks like its from the 70's.. Even the latest lexus GS or whatever its called has it and thats one of the most advanced cars ever made? Thats like Apple selling the iphone with windows mobile instead of OS X... (but windows mobile isnt too bad) unlike the blasted digital clocks.... Get rid of them ... Pleeeese.:mad:

I guess they've never been enlightened by Douglas Adams.


FFS, Why VW? I can understand the BMW, Jag, associative snobbery/luxury implications - but VW???? Ugh.

Do you know what brands are in the VW group?


I don't get the who-ha about it all anyway. I have a $100.00 auto-charging ipod dock that I can switch between any car I want (also works with my portable Milwaukee jobsite radio)

I believe we should have FW/USB plugs in cars already built in.


Just for charging or for direct file access? Direct file access won't work. I don't think iPods can send decompressed/decrypted digital audio signals over the USB connector. Direct file access might work, but only if you don't have DRMed files.

JeffDM
Aug 30, 2007, 11:35 PM
Not a manual drive? I don't want to drive a go-kart :(

Why aren't you people also complaining about the lack of an air-fuel mixture control?

JeffDM
Aug 30, 2007, 11:37 PM
Its a well known and well followed fact that using CAPS in internet text (email, im, etc) means your SCREAMING AT THE PERSON.

It doesn't matter if you like this or not. If you use CAPS in your MESSAGES people will get upset at you. END OF STORY!


An all-caps post can also mean you're an AOL-er. All-caps for words and phrases has been a standard convention for yelling long before computers were used for communication. Acronyms don't count. People generally read all-caps words slower than lower case too, it uses different forms of brain processing to understand it.

coffeecty
Aug 31, 2007, 12:22 AM
So Basically, in 20 years, we'll all be living in modular 20'X30' iHomes and driving iCars. Nice.
Actually, I wouldn't mind a nice reliable car from Apple. Maybe they could team up with Ralph Nader and bring us a compact, good looking and affordable green car.

scrambledwonder
Aug 31, 2007, 12:31 AM
I don't want to hear about a new car unless:

a. It can drive itself.

or

b. It runs on sunlight.

or

c. It can fly.

El Capitano
Aug 31, 2007, 02:58 AM
I'm hoping the real Chris Bangle is so unamused that he drives himself into the sea. Then he won't pollute the world with any more of his eyesores.

Followed by the idiot who designed that revolting open-mouth grille for Audi. Please.

rubberduck007
Aug 31, 2007, 04:16 AM
he key thing here is What Does CONTROL INTERFACES mean... Is it the buttons and controls, or is the GUI and user experience stuff on the touch screen display. These two pics should brighten up this thread.

That steering wheel is on the wrong side!!!! :p

rubberduck007
Aug 31, 2007, 04:21 AM
Looks correct to me :D

ahhh... the beautiful "right" hand drive... God bless you ma'am! :D

Belly-laughs
Aug 31, 2007, 05:08 AM
Followed by the idiot who designed that revolting open-mouth grille for Audi. Please.

I believe those "idiots" are already dead…

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Autounion-Wanderer1936.jpg/784px-Autounion-Wanderer1936.jpg

http://mensvogue.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/audi_2.gif

MrSmith
Aug 31, 2007, 06:03 AM
Slow day in apple news Im guessing :confused:
Apple reinvent the knob! Read all about it!

Evangelion
Aug 31, 2007, 06:07 AM
I'm hoping the real Chris Bangle is so unamused that he drives himself into the sea. Then he won't pollute the world with any more of his eyesores.

I dunno. Back when the new 7-series and 5-series were released I kinda disliked them. But the styling has grown on me (well, maybe not on the 7-series...). The new BMW's are very very good looking, and I think that BMW M6 (http://prestige-car-hire.com/images/res/BMW%20M6%20SIDE_150_107.jpg) is one of the best looking cars on the road these days.

Chris needs to take his head out of his arse and realise that people have to LIKE what he designs.

I like what he designs. Besides, people are quick to forget that he designed the models that were universally praised, like E39 5-series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E39).

Evangelion
Aug 31, 2007, 06:10 AM
No. Absolutely NOT, and for the same reason I will never buy a car that has a MS OS in it. Standardized OS's which MS and Apple have lead hackers to more easily crack said OS then a proprietary one created by a single auto maker that no one can download specs on off the net. Its an unknown. That isn't to say that its crack proof. However any additional barriers you put in place are a good thing™ even if its simply security through obscurity.

Have you EVER seen anyone "hack" in to a car? Seriously? Why do you get the idea that you are just using this as an excuse to (again) bitch and moan?

Chris Bangle
Aug 31, 2007, 07:04 AM
Z4M and Z4M coupe look amazing. Its mercedes-benz's that look horrile... Apart from the CLS and CL.. The new CL has the best looking front ever... Its soooo cool.

macsamillion
Aug 31, 2007, 08:00 AM
The key thing here is What Does CONTROL INTERFACES mean... Is it the buttons and controls, or is the GUI and user experience stuff on the touch screen display.

Interesting question, I would imagine that it is a combination of texture, scale, color and sound--three of the five senses, taste and smell wouldn't be too useful in an automotive interface. The electronics not with standing, the traditional car is already very iPod like, in that the steering wheel--used to navigate--is very much like the Click Wheel on the iPod. Maybe that's were the inspiration for the Click Wheel came from. The steering wheel is pretty damn universal, as an idea. The big nob on the Jaguar's console is a bit horsey, it would seem that there is a more elegant way of executing that idea. It's interesting. The corner stone of Apple's interface design has always been elegance. Can that perceived elegance be applied to the automotive environment and will it still work as elegantly?

The next question is this idea that we need a start button. While kind of cool it doesn't it seem a bit retrograde and superfluous?

nlx
Aug 31, 2007, 08:36 AM
WTF does using CAPS have to do with screaming at people, I've never understood it and never will. It makes no difference whether the text is capitalised or not, just GET OVER IT ALREADY.

and now, all designers think you are stupid…

Marzzz
Aug 31, 2007, 10:02 AM
Back when the new 7-series and 5-series were released I kinda disliked them. But the styling has grown on me (well, maybe not on the 7-series...).

The 5 took a little getting used to, but I have never liked the 7- besides, the 7 series is for old people. In the meantime, I will be happy if BMW would simplify the iDrive and put in an AUX input for my iPod which doesn't cost $350! I'll worry about integrating the iPod (actually, soon to be iPhone) later....

janstett
Aug 31, 2007, 11:21 AM
I love Apple and I love innovation, but can't a car just be a friggin car?!?

I suppose this is fine for the car-as-appliance set.

But as an automotive enthusiast and DRIVING ENTHUSIAST, death to this crap! I personally mourn the death of the clutch and proper manual with all this floppy paddle semi-automatic crap. The iPod gear selector is non-intuitive, I don't need a computer that parallel parks my car or tells me I need to brake or beeps when I cross over a lane or presses the brakes when the car ahead of me brakes. Enough!

Maybe we should eliminate the steering wheel and steer with an iPod click wheel. Or just gesture right to turn right, gesture left to turn left, pinch fingers to brake, and stick out our tongues to beep. Lots of Italians will be having traffic accidents.

diamond.g
Aug 31, 2007, 12:19 PM
Why aren't you people also complaining about the lack of an air-fuel mixture control?

Probably cause some of us assumed the car that would feature this tech wouldn't be force induced. :p

macsamillion
Aug 31, 2007, 12:59 PM
...but can't a car just be a friggin car?!?

Couldn't agree more--Though iTunes / iPod is so much nicer than a flippin' CD changer.

My dream car, as of this model year, is no longer available with a manual transmission; but is available with a CD player?!? Automotive consumers are too conservative... and lazy. On the other hand, just imagine if car makers were just half as quick as Apple to throw out old technology.

macsamillion
Aug 31, 2007, 01:07 PM
Why aren't you people also complaining about the lack of an air-fuel mixture control?

Because, most of the people reading this forum don't understand the significance... besides that's why there are computers in the cars in the first place, to manage air-fuel and timing faster than any knuckle head human.

Chris Bangle
Aug 31, 2007, 01:25 PM
My name is on Autoblog... That is soo cool. Im so proud

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/31/jaguar-design-chief-says-xf-is-apple-flavored/

redgoober4life
Aug 31, 2007, 08:45 PM
Cool...I guess. Two thoughts:

1) Why Jaguar? They make kinda lousy cars. Why not BMW/Lexus/Acura/Benz/Infiniti or any other of the car companies that make sweet cars?

2) While I like Apple design in general...if everything in my life had that glossy glass-over-black-plastic sheen I think I might go nuts. In other words, the Apple aesthetic can be taken too far.

Jaguar has really improved their reliability in recent years. The current XJ, while nearly 4 years old, is great to drive. Riveted and bonded aluminum exoskeleton? Lightweight? Innovative design for the automotive industry.

Also, Honda/Acura doesn't need any input from Apple. Their ergonomics are top rate, and their user interfaces for their navigation systems are very intuitive (and they come with a voice detection system that actually works). Toyota/Lexus is a similar story. My Honda Accord has been more reliable than my Macbook. ;) Let's not mess with a good thing.

Eduardo1971
Sep 1, 2007, 12:04 AM
I dunno. Back when the new 7-series and 5-series were released I kinda disliked them. But the styling has grown on me (well, maybe not on the 7-series...). The new BMW's are very very good looking, and I think that BMW M6 (http://prestige-car-hire.com/images/res/BMW%20M6%20SIDE_150_107.jpg) is one of the best looking cars on the road these days.


The 1 series that will finally debut in the United States next year is beautiful! The 'spects on the 135i are awesome.

The current "M"-series E60 and E64 are amazing automobiles. People forget that Bangle had his hand in designing the E46 which in my opinion (especially with 'face-lifted' models) are classic looking modern day automobiles.

Eduardo1971
Sep 1, 2007, 12:09 AM
... My Honda Accord has been more reliable than my Macbook. ;) Let's not mess with a good thing.

Tell me about it! My fully optioned Performance Package (ZHP) 330i has been MUCH more reliable than my Macbook!:eek::mad:

Nugget
Sep 1, 2007, 10:36 AM
The new Jaguars finally look like proper Jags and not just re-badged Fords. It's a step in the right direction, for sure, even if Jaguar missed a few cues.

I totally agree that the Z4 (coupe and convertible) are where Bangle's design works the best. Across the line, though, my eyes are getting more accustomed to the Bangled BMWs. Still, it was enough to drive me to a different marque when I sold my Z3M earlier this year. I worry, too, that the current crop of BMWs is going to look comically dated in a few more years when the styling mores move on. BMWs have never aged well in general and the current flavors will probably fare even worse than usual in that regard.

Chris Bangle
Sep 1, 2007, 11:03 AM
The 1 series that will finally debut in the United States next year is beautiful! The 'spects on the 135i are awesome.

The current "M"-series E60 and E64 are amazing automobiles. People forget that Bangle was had his hand in designing the E46 which in my opinion (especially with 'face-lifted' models) are classic looking modern day automobiles.



I think calling the 135i coupe awesome is an understatement... Published 0-60 figures are 5.3secs i think, in reality its probably a bit faster then that.... consider that the fat oaf new m3 is 4.8 maybe a bit slower....

Oh yeh and 1 series coupe has a what seems like an amazing chasis and its light and has brilliant weight distribution apparently...

BMW are definatly the worlds most sorted car manufacturer...

Nugget
Sep 1, 2007, 11:32 AM
Oh yeh and 1 series coupe has a what seems like an amazing chasis and its light and has brilliant weight distribution apparently...

It's great to see performance cars starting to follow Lotus' lead by "adding lightness" instead of just succumbing to the mindless horsepower wars. Now if only Porsche would get on board I'd be completely happy.

Chris Bangle
Sep 2, 2007, 02:21 PM
FOUND IT.... http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Jaguar-XJ-Series/224229/

few moths old...February 07

One of the cabin’s most radical ideas are ‘proximity switches’. Also due to appear on a future version of the iPod, proximity switches do not require physical contact between the driver and the electrical switching mechanism. Sources say much of the XJ’s switchgear is nothing more than symbols etched onto glass sheets suspended clear of the dashboard architecture. Touching the symbol activates the switch, and the glass sheets are elegantly back-lit at night, so interior lighting can be activated by the occupant simply moving his hand in the vicinity of the lighting units.

CONTROL SURFACES.. Its soo simple...

Chris Bangle
Sep 3, 2007, 05:02 AM
I have come to the conclusion that Apple provided designs and information on the proximity sensor for the Jaguar... The iphone uses proximity sensors for when the screen switches off when it moves to your ear and jaguar use proximity sensor for the glovebox opening and lighting...


whats interesting is the part about future ipods using proximity sensors...The iphone had been announced when this article was written so maybe wednesday will show us an ipod which uses proximity sensor alot

redgoober4life
Sep 3, 2007, 03:12 PM
I think calling the 135i coupe awesome is an understatement... Published 0-60 figures are 5.3secs i think, in reality its probably a bit faster then that.... consider that the fat oaf new m3 is 4.8 maybe a bit slower....

Oh yeh and 1 series coupe has a what seems like an amazing chasis and its light and has brilliant weight distribution apparently...

BMW are definatly the worlds most sorted car manufacturer...

Straight-line numbers impress, but when I drove a 335i I was confused by the lack of an LSD. 300hp should come with a limited slip, and that brilliant car needs it if it is to use all of that power in the twisties. Electronic nannies aren't a very good substitute, as much of the power is simply being wasted via application of the brakes and thus heat dissipation. Lazy design.

janstett
Sep 3, 2007, 10:34 PM
Straight-line numbers impress, but when I drove a 335i I was confused by the lack of an LSD. 300hp should come with a limited slip, and that brilliant car needs it if it is to use all of that power in the twisties. Electronic nannies aren't a very good substitute, as much of the power is simply being wasted via application of the brakes and thus heat dissipation. Lazy design.

Here here! I'm baffled by the lack of LSDs in cars with sporting pretentions (I believe it took Lotus a year to get an LSD in the Elise, WTF?).

Currently my lusted after cars that I can get if I stretch are a Cayman S and Corvette Z06. If I go low profile, I'm aiming for a Mini Cooper S or one of those new 135i's.

I drove my boss's Z3 (granted a couple of years old, and not an M-coupe) and I was shocked at how wobbly it was in corners... Almost reminded me of a Lincoln Town Car in slaloms. Definitely too loose for my tastes.

Nugget
Sep 3, 2007, 10:44 PM
I drove my boss's Z3 (granted a couple of years old, and not an M-coupe) and I was shocked at how wobbly it was in corners... Almost reminded me of a Lincoln Town Car in slaloms. Definitely too loose for my tastes.

Autocross is what eventually drove me to get rid of my Z3 M Roadster. All that power is addictive but ultimately not very useful if you can't apply it to the road. The Z3 chassis is not all that great, it's based on the older 3 series and didn't handle well at all. The torque was addictive - I swear you could lay down and take a nap on the torque curve BMW wrings out of those inline 6 engines, it comes on strong at about three RPM and pulls all the way up to redline. Heady stuff, that. Cornering was like driving a plow, though, and the car always felt like it weighed about 400lbs more than it ought to. I'd take a Miata over a Z3 any day of the week. It's a lot easier to make a Miata faster than it is to make a Z3 nimble. :)

After a few years of getting my ass handed to me in autocross by Miatas and Civics I decided it was time for a change. I traded it in on a 911 earlier this year and haven't looked back. The 911 feels less torquey and, strangely, less fast in a straight line (actual numbers be damned) but it's such a dream to have a car that actually tells me what the front wheels are doing and responds properly in the corners. US Market 911s don't come with LSDs either, though, so go figure!

EDIT: and, to stay remotely on-topic, no freakin' iPod interface either!

GoCubsGo
Sep 3, 2007, 10:46 PM
Considering the Jag has a large issue with using fiber optics in their stereos, this has to be great news for jag drivers. I know one who has been waiting since she bought a 4th gen iPod and still no go for hard wiring.

Chris Bangle
Sep 4, 2007, 04:22 AM
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Jaguar-XJ-Series/224229/

few moths old...February 07

One of the cabin’s most radical ideas are ‘proximity switches’. Also due to appear on a future version of the iPod, proximity switches do not require physical contact between the driver and the electrical switching mechanism. Sources say much of the XJ’s switchgear is nothing more than symbols etched onto glass sheets suspended clear of the dashboard architecture. Touching the symbol activates the switch, and the glass sheets are elegantly back-lit at night, so interior lighting can be activated by the occupant simply moving his hand in the vicinity of the lighting units.

CONTROL SURFACES.. Its soo simple...