PDA

View Full Version : Apple Cripples iPod Touch Calendar




Pages : [1] 2

ksolano
Sep 10, 2007, 06:09 AM
Holy cow, first they said yes, now they say no!?
WTF?? can anyone give us any serious answers? will we be able to input data into the ical app?



w0ngbr4d
Sep 10, 2007, 06:11 AM
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/breaking/apple-cripples-ipod-touch-eliminates-add-button-from-calendar-297994.php

I'm seriously thinking about canceling my order now.

This is crap.

gloss
Sep 10, 2007, 06:20 AM
Hack, hack, hack it, baby.

i0Nic
Sep 10, 2007, 06:22 AM
This is terrible, can't believe Apple would intentionally cripple the device like this. Now more than ever we'll have to rely on hackers to improve the functionality of the device, hopefully the hacks won't get wiped after each itunes update.

nlivo
Sep 10, 2007, 06:32 AM
i don't think this will be the case when it is released. I believe you will be able to add/edit contacts and calendars and for some reason i still think they'll add another app onto it.....possibly notes.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 06:33 AM
******* it, they've changed it on the Australian Apple store too.

Can Apple cripple an advertised spec after receiving the orders? Do they have small print that says "specs may change without notice before shipping"?

I'm no expert but I believe that's illegal here, and is called bait and switch.

I ordered an iPod touch which can enter calendar events as advertised, so that's what I'm expecting. Oherwise I assume they have to cancel my order and ask me to resubmit a new order. I assume they at least have to let me know the specs have changed and ask if I want to keep the order intact.

owen-b
Sep 10, 2007, 06:38 AM
i don't think this will be the case when it is released. I believe you will be able to add/edit contacts and calendars and for some reason i still think they'll add another app onto it.....possibly notes.
Wishful thinking, buddy. Why would Apple accidentally say you could edit the calendar, then have a rep tell folk on the Apple Discussions board that actually you can't, then change all the websites to reflect this, and then release the iPod Touch with the ability restored as well as another app that wasn't announced at all?

That's just daft. Apple are removing this ability and those apps like Mail and Notes specifically because they don't want us to use it as a PDA - they want us to buy an extortionate iPhone to do that... Here in the UK we don't even have the iPhone yet, although I expect a 3G 16GB model to launch in November - but it will cost waaaaaaay too much.

I'm getting a touch, enjoying it's cool interface and waiting till it gets hacked to pieces, myself. It won't take long. :)

ImNoSuperMan
Sep 10, 2007, 06:40 AM
My guess is all these apps(and more) will soon be available for download on itunes. For some extra $ though.

shadowmoses
Sep 10, 2007, 06:40 AM
I am very shocked at Apple for doing this, if indeed it does end up being the cae. Personally I think apple will ship it with full features and eventually open it up allowing us to install apps as we please.
Doesn't really affect me as I am going to use my touch for browsing web, Music and Video.....So my order is staying

ShadoW

ksolano
Sep 10, 2007, 06:46 AM
******* it, they've changed it on the Australian Apple store too.

Can Apple cripple an advertised spec after receiving the orders? Do they have small print that says "specs may change without notice before shipping"?

I'm no expert but I believe that's illegal here, and is called bait and switch.

I ordered an iPod touch which can enter calendar events as advertised, so that's what I'm expecting. Oherwise I assume they have to cancel my order and ask me to resubmit a new order. I assume they at least have to let me know the specs have changed and ask if I want to keep the order intact.


Agreed, here in the UK its also illegal to miss sel something. You cant advertise one thing, then sell you the item without that feature.
Hopefully apple will be aware of this.

iCantwait
Sep 10, 2007, 06:48 AM
i'm over it

liketom
Sep 10, 2007, 06:49 AM
Agreed, here in the UK its also illegal to miss sel something. You cant advertise one thing, then sell you the item without that feature.
Hopefully apple will be aware of this.

you ever been to PC World ? :rolleyes:

"yes sir this Fee Cee will play anything and be future proof;)"

:D

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 06:50 AM
It's an iPod! It will have (initially atleast) just iPod based functionality. Thats all.

You have never been able to add events to the calendar on an iPod, so you can't with this either. It may come eventually, i expect apple will wait to see its impact on classic/nano iPod and iPhone sales.

Hell the wifi is only really there to allow you to buy choons on the move, adding safari was just a bonus.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 06:51 AM
What are they thinking? Do they honestly think I'm going to buy an iPhone instead just to be able to enter calendar events?

Not to mention the iPhone isn't even available here, for crying out loud. Or many places else.

Or when it is available, that I won't buy an iPhone because I already have an iPod that can enter calendar events? Is entering calendar events why I would pay extra for an iPhone over an iPod touch?

My thinking was that if the iPod touch serves me well in the near future, I will upgrade both it and my phone to an iPhone when I next replace my standard phone (if the iPhone is available). In other words, the iPod was a lead-in to the iPhone.

i0Nic
Sep 10, 2007, 06:55 AM
It's an iPod! It will have (initially atleast) just iPod based functionality. Thats all.

You have never been able to add events to the calendar on an iPod, so you can't with this either. It may come eventually, i expect apple will wait to see its impact on classic/nano iPod and iPhone sales.

Hell the wifi is only really there to allow you to buy choons on the move, adding safari was just a bonus.

Exactly, there's no way they would've included wifi if it wasn't for the wifi music store.

Goddamn just leave the applications alone Apple! Without being able to edit th calender makes it seem ridiculous on such a nicely designed app.


edit- honestly, thanks to this and also the lack of Notes and Mail, I wouldn't buy a touch.. but I'm relying on hackers for this now.

ksolano
Sep 10, 2007, 06:57 AM
But the point is, You cant tell us one thing, let people buy the product. Then one weel later tell them customers, Sorry, we've changed our mind. Now u cant have that feature.
That sucks!!! i know we bought the product with terms and condisions, which means apple covers themselves and a the right to change the product anytime prio to the release.. But still.. its very bad!!

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 06:58 AM
You have never been able to add events to the calendar on an iPod, so you can't with this either.

But Apple advertised that the iPod touch can indeed do this.

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 06:59 AM
But Apple advertised that the iPod touch can indeed do this.

That was probably just a marketing mix-up, if there anything like our guys there easily confused :rolleyes:

Don't expect anything over iPod features.. as it is just that.. an iPod.

Quickdood
Sep 10, 2007, 07:09 AM
Wow Apple is turning into Microsoft. Why the hell wouldn't they allow people to edit a calender, if the the capability is there then why take it away. Whats next you can only go to pre-bookmarked sites on safari and they eliminate the keyboard function therefore one cant use google to search??? At first I was thinking maybe I won't hack the Touch, maybe I would just leave it be but now I am not sure I can do that, with no calender and no NOTES feature WTF.

All I know is I haven't pre-ordered this baby yet and I am reconsidering a purchase, maybe I will wait until hackers make it into a proper non crippled device.

GoCubsGo
Sep 10, 2007, 07:11 AM
Uh oh. Here comes another open letter from Steve Jobs...
Poor Steve. At least he is getting to use the new iWork suite.

dalvin200
Sep 10, 2007, 07:13 AM
It's an iPod! It will have (initially atleast) just iPod based functionality. Thats all.

You have never been able to add events to the calendar on an iPod, so you can't with this either. It may come eventually, i expect apple will wait to see its impact on classic/nano iPod and iPhone sales.

Hell the wifi is only really there to allow you to buy choons on the move, adding safari was just a bonus.

totally agree..

and this is what differentiates the touch with the phone..

phone = productivity + entertainment
touch = entertainment

MacRumorUser
Sep 10, 2007, 07:15 AM
Just cancelled an order for a 16gb touh until this is cleared up once and for all.

We ordered one with the intention of at leat being able to access and change calender / todo lits etc, and sync with ical & addressbook whilst on the move. It was intended to replace an old palm tungsten and nano in one device.

Don't need the phone and it's not available here regardless. so this is a set nback and were not blowing 400 for a 16gb ipod, if it's extra features are utterly crippled in such a manner.

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 07:15 AM
Wow Apple is turning into Microsoft. Why the hell wouldn't they allow people to edit a calender, if the the capability is there then why take it away. Whats next you can only go to pre-bookmarked sites on safari and they eliminate the keyboard function therefore one cant use google to search??? At first I was thinking maybe I won't hack the Touch, maybe I would just leave it be but now I am not sure I can do that, with no calender and no NOTES feature WTF.

All I know is I haven't pre-ordered this baby yet and I am reconsidering a purchase, maybe I will wait until hackers make it into a proper non crippled device.

It is a proper uncrippled device, its a one hell of an iPod music/video player, you seem to be getting it confused with a PDA. Don't go by the iPhone for its features, its an iPod.

It may well become a PDA in future, either legitmately (spelling might be off there!) or through hacks, but its an iPod at the top of iPod range with wifi, sexy touch interface and one hell of a screen.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 07:23 AM
Don't go by the iPhone for its features, its an iPod.

So's the iPhone. On the front page of Apple's US website, the headline reads:

Meet the best iPods ever.

And below that headline are shown the five members of the current iPod family. On the far right, next to the iPod touch, is the iPhone.

So you can quote Apple directly - the iPhone is an iPod. The iPod touch is just one step down from the iPhone in terms of features, ie; lack of actual phone.

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 07:29 AM
So's the iPhone. On the front page of Apple's US website, the headline reads:

Meet the best iPods ever.

And below that headline are shown the five members of the current iPod family. On the far right, next to the iPod touch, is the iPhone.

So you can quote Apple directly - the iPhone is an iPod. The iPod touch is just one step down from the iPhone in terms of features, ie; lack of actual phone.

Fair do's. But there is clearly a line drawn between the touch and the phone, touch is an ipod through and through, im not sure why people suddenly expected it to inherit PDA functionality.

PDA functionality is somewhat required in a smartphone, so the iphone has it, the touch is clearly just an ipod and does not.

w0ngbr4d
Sep 10, 2007, 07:32 AM
You have never been able to add events to the calendar on an iPod, so you can't with this either.

I don't really think the click wheel is the most intuitive input device for text. Full QWERTY keyboard on the other hand is.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 07:40 AM
I see it differently, in that the iPod touch fills the gap between the classic iPod and the iPhone, and it's clearly closer in features, both form-factor and software, to the iPhone than it is to the other three iPods.

It's the iPod iphone without the phone.

Markleshark
Sep 10, 2007, 07:43 AM
My guess is all these apps(and more) will soon be available for download on itunes. For some extra $ though.

Hopefully, don't mind paying long as its only 1 or 2 $$, not a lot.

i'm over it

Me too. It's (Shock-Horror) an iPod.

MacRumorUser
Sep 10, 2007, 07:59 AM
Me too. It's (Shock-Horror) an iPod.

Yes, but it's an ipod that apple obviously decided WAS up until this last minute change, the device to allow 'add' to your calender and promoted it as such.

The fact that they have subsequently modified this on the quiet is wrong.

We ordered a touch the following day after the announcements, as i say to replace a nano & palm tungsten in one device.

I don't need full PDA functionality, just address book and calender/todo lists.

On initial inspection the iTouch fufilled this down to the tee, but now that's just wishful thinking.

Whilst it's good to have a seperation of devices, the fact that the iPhone is not available worldwide, makes a devision fruitless because it gives the larger majority of consumers NO choice / option or anywhere to go.

Also by forcing consumers to go with iPhone, and a 2 year phone contract just to be able to modify their calender is a big joke.

I have now cancelled the iTouch we ordered, and hope the situation will be remedied.

Markleshark
Sep 10, 2007, 08:03 AM
I think it's a little hard to judge off shaky information based on website images.

I'll wait till mine arrives to pass judgment.

Saying that, it doesn't mean I don't agree they should clear it up.

MacRumorUser
Sep 10, 2007, 08:08 AM
Saying that, it doesn't mean I don't agree they should clear it up.

Drop me a pm to let me know ;) But yeah, I just want this cleared up. Replacing the tungsten & nano was the 'justification' for ordering a touch (alongside the classic already shipped). If it turns out that it is indeed slightly crippled, then I'll be in the ***** ;):D So cancelling it is me covering my back.

aquanutz
Sep 10, 2007, 08:12 AM
I don't really think the click wheel is the most intuitive input device for text. Full QWERTY keyboard on the other hand is.

I have to agree with Mr. w0ng here.


Now if you'll excuse me, I have to enter some appointments into iCal on my iPhone...

Markleshark
Sep 10, 2007, 08:14 AM
Drop me a pm to let me know ;) But yeah, I just want this cleared up. Replacing the tungsten & nano was the 'justification' for ordering a touch (alongside the classic already shipped). If it turns out that it is indeed slightly crippled, then I'll be in the ***** ;):D So cancelling it is me covering my back.

I shall let you know. By the time I do mind, it's certain you'll already know. :D

Fair enough covering your own back, I was looking for a touch screen iPod, which is what I got. I'm more than happy. You wanted to replace a PDA which this may not now do.

I'd prolly have canceled as well.

gloss
Sep 10, 2007, 08:17 AM
I don't typically do this sort of thing, but I did send out a mildly chastising message via the Apple Site (summarized: 'WTF m8?').

jonnylink
Sep 10, 2007, 08:22 AM
I can't agree with folks saying it makes sense because it isn't a PDA. Entering iCal events doesn't make the iPod Touch a PDA.

It doesn't make it compete with the iPhone either, the point of differentiation there is the phone, and that is a big point.

By removing input features from the Touch it removes important points of differentiation between it and the iPod Classic. When something costs more money and comes with a drastically smaller HD there needs to be more than a larger touch sensitive screen to differentiate the two.

Evangelion
Sep 10, 2007, 08:35 AM
It's interesting what kind of reactions touch has brought out in people. So far I have seen these shortcomings mentioned:

- no camera
- no GPS
- no email

And now we can add "no calendar-entry" to the list. And while I read that list, I keep muttering to myself "it's an iPod....". Would it be nice to be able to add calendar-entries to the iPod? Sure! But then again, it IS just an iPod...

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 08:36 AM
I can't agree with folks saying it makes sense because it isn't a PDA. Entering iCal events doesn't make the iPod Touch a PDA.


The essentials of a PDA are maintaining a contacts list (which the touch lets you do) and a calendar, along with the people asking for a To Do list it becomes a PDA.

To Apples credit or detriment they have a drawn a line between the functionality of the iphone and the ipod, you have to decide whether it fits your needs or not.

i0Nic
Sep 10, 2007, 08:37 AM
I can't agree with folks saying it makes sense because it isn't a PDA. Entering iCal events doesn't make the iPod Touch a PDA.

It doesn't make it compete with the iPhone either, the point of differentiation there is the phone, and that is a big point.

By removing input features from the Touch it removes important points of differentiation between it and the iPod Classic. When something costs more money and comes with a drastically smaller HD there needs to be more than a larger touch sensitive screen to differentiate the two.
Agreed, let's hope Apple has some sense and adds this feature back in with a firmware update. I'm not holding my breath though.

I really have to question if I want a touch now. I may as well get the nano and save myself some money and pocket space.

MacRumorUser
Sep 10, 2007, 08:40 AM
To Apples credit or detriment they have a drawn a line between the functionality of the iphone and the ipod, you have to decide whether it fits your needs or not.

And if the iPhone isn't available to you, your just gonna have to except the 1 fingure salute from Apple. ;)

clevin
Sep 10, 2007, 08:41 AM
Apple is so against freedom, why do users have to hack the thing to enjoy the device to its real potential?

crees!
Sep 10, 2007, 08:41 AM
Apple isn't crippling the iPod touch. When have any previous generation iPods been able to directly add an event to a calendar? The answer, never. You have only been able to sync / view calendars. Granted, the new iPod has a keyboard for certain apps. But why make one iPod (touch) be able to add calendar events and the others not? No matter how sick you all might think this is, it's not. It's smart, smart marketing - something many people / corporations do not fully understand.

clevin
Sep 10, 2007, 08:44 AM
It's smart, smart marketing - something many people / corporations do not fully understand.

its anti-evolution, anti-freedom, anti-technology, anti-user experience, monopoly. worst of a business. You can argue other companies do that too, that doesn't change a thing.

rbroady
Sep 10, 2007, 08:44 AM
FALSE ADVERTISMENT....i really wish they brought out the 16gb iphone they would make this decision so much easier.

Markleshark
Sep 10, 2007, 08:44 AM
And if the iPhone isn't available to you, your just gonna have to except the 1 fingure salute from Apple. ;)

Not just if the iPhone isnt available to you. If your not in the US history tells us this is what usually happens.

So, could we be seeing a different set of features across the pond? From what ive read the ability to add calendar notes is still advertised on European Apple sites.

MacRumorUser
Sep 10, 2007, 08:50 AM
So, could we be seeing a different set of features across the pond? From what ive read the ability to add calendar notes is still advertised on European Apple sites.

No they have changed the UK/Ireland pages subsequently now too.

Markleshark
Sep 10, 2007, 08:58 AM
Oh well, not to worry. Was trying to check myself, but my interwebs are going tits up.

Evangelion
Sep 10, 2007, 09:01 AM
its anti-evolution, anti-freedom, anti-technology, anti-user experience, monopoly.

You keep using those words... I don't think they mean quite what you think they mean...

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 09:01 AM
No they have changed the UK/Ireland pages subsequently now too.

tis true, you have to remember though, this is the first version of the touch, look where the ipod classic is now compared to the original! Hopefully apple will be able to do most of it through software this time rather than requiring better hardware with the touch, but we'll see..

DCBass
Sep 10, 2007, 09:06 AM
Apple isn't crippling the iPod touch. When have any previous generation iPods been able to directly add an event to a calendar? The answer, never. You have only been able to sync / view calendars. Granted, the new iPod has a keyboard for certain apps. But why make one iPod (touch) be able to add calendar events and the others not? No matter how sick you all might think this is, it's not. It's smart, smart marketing - something many people / corporations do not fully understand.

You should really read the posts, it's not even two pages worth yet, and you might better understand what the two major points are:

1) False Advertising.

Apple plainly stated on their website you can add/edit calendar events on the iPod touch. Now they have inexplicably taken this away. This is totally dissimilar to not including the Notes app, as that was never promised in the first place.

2) Why the F Not!?

Seriously, this is not going to be the differentiator to push someone toward getting an iPhone over a touch. If anything it serves only to annoy and anger potential customers. And the funny thing is... they went out of their way to do this. Who cares if other iPods don't have it either. Other iPods did not have a keyboard or other easy method of input. Why should the keyboard be totally pointless if not connected to wifi??? What's the point in that!? It's not like it cannot be done.

Conclusion: There is no explanation for this Apple. If I had ordered a touch, you can be certain I would have canceled my order because of this alone. As it is, I would have ordered one after the next storage increase, but now have changed my mind and won't order another iPod, even if my current one dies. I have been a loyal customer for quite a while now, but if this business practice persists with iPod touch, or with Leopard, or any other product, I see no reason to continue to conduct business with you.

In other words, Crees, this is indeed not what I would call "smart marketing". Not in the least. And I see no reason in buying a product where I would rely on hackers to do something Apple should have done from the start. Send a message people.

gkarris
Sep 10, 2007, 09:09 AM
I could've justified the $299 for a measly 8Gig iPod as long as I could double it as a PDA, adding contacts and appointments and notes...

Now, I don't think so...

clevin
Sep 10, 2007, 09:13 AM
You keep using those words... I don't think they mean quite what you think they mean...

the problem with some people's thinking is

when they consider the whole situation, they put apple's profit above end-users' benefit. and Thats NOT good!

I know exactly what I was saying.

Each words represent exactly what they mean.

Freedom, users should be able to enjoy the variety native 3rd party apps with a OS as big as windows 98, rather than restricted in 3 or 5 apps.

Evolution, everything is improving forward, rather than give users mixed options. even when iPod Touch has the potential to be top of the line, all in one, apple made it to a situation that users have to pick both Touch and another iPod to meet their needs

Technology, every technology is invented to serve users so they can finish their task, enjoy their life more easily, while Apple, restricted OS to a degree that it only can do 4 or 5 things.

User experiences. Why users can not enjoy their device to its full potential?

Monopoly, by marketing it as an iPod, Apple is using the existing market of iPod users, is that a smart marketing strategy? yes, but so what? once you ask yourself, what is the definition of an iPod? its then obvious iPod Touch is more of a weak PDA than a normal iPod. apple is using its dominate in music player market to push a PDA.

PS, I wouldn't rant for other people's benefit, I rant because I might want to get one... and I want my device to act to its potential rather than only being a browsing machine....

gloss
Sep 10, 2007, 09:19 AM
Hear hear.

DCBass
Sep 10, 2007, 09:28 AM
Clevin speaketh the truth.

MacMan33
Sep 10, 2007, 09:31 AM
I can see everyones disappointment, but remember its just an Ipod, not a phone or PDA. Apple needs to get its head on straight and make sure their adverts reflect the product they are pre selling. To me all the added features to the Ipod were just that. Added to a Mp3 player than was never there. I dont think these features will blend like everyone wishes. Apple has another product for that called the Iphone PDA. Consider yourself lucky we have safari and a calender to reference.

Loge
Sep 10, 2007, 09:39 AM
No one seems to question that a phone should also have a camera, PDA and music playing capabilities, but heaven forbid that a music player should also have a usable calendar.

So much for convergence, eh?

This so goes against the expectation of what an Apple product should be; this "wonder of the world" - it has a calendar and a fully qwerty keyboard, but they don't work together.

crees!
Sep 10, 2007, 09:46 AM
You should really read the posts, it's not even two pages worth yet, and you might better understand what the two major points are:

1) False Advertising.

...

2) Why the F Not!?

...


Guess what, some people here work and don't have time to parse every syllable posted. BTW, I just made another major point, bringing it to 3.

In other words, Crees, this is indeed not what I would call "smart marketing". Not in the least. And I see no reason in buying a product where I would rely on hackers to do something Apple should have done from the start. Send a message people.

Actually, it's keeping their products consistent. The iPod is an iPod, not a PDA.

Loge
Sep 10, 2007, 09:54 AM
Actually, it's keeping their products consistent. The iPod is an iPod, not a PDA.

Where is the consistency in allowing contacts to be editable but not events? And if it is just an iPod why are contacts even on there?

outlandos
Sep 10, 2007, 09:56 AM
This is why I hate Apple, and love them at the same time :o

gloss
Sep 10, 2007, 09:59 AM
Where is the consistency in allowing contacts to be editable but not events? And if it is just an iPod why are contacts even on there?

Agreed. They are consciously providing a half-assed implementation of these features when there's no real excuse to.

It made/makes sense on the earlier iPods. Who wants to write with a touch-wheel? It makes NO sense here, with a perfectly good QWERTY keyboard available and waiting to be used.

DCBass
Sep 10, 2007, 10:02 AM
Guess what, some people here work and don't have time to parse every syllable posted. BTW, I just made another major point, bringing it to 3.

Fully understandable. No offense intended.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 10:12 AM
Actually, it's keeping their products consistent. The iPod is an iPod, not a PDA.

So why's Safari not crippled to access just the iTunes store or Youtube if it's just an iPod?

That it isn't, means you can access every online email or app, including Google Mail, Calendar, Notebook, Picasa, Translate, Docs and Spreadsheets - which makes it a near-complete wifi PDA. But all done through Safari, so it only works if you're online. So crippling iCal, Notes, etc serves no purpose but to drive Apple iPod Touch users to non-Apple suppliers online such as Google for their PDA apps.

Can you do that with any of the other three lesser iPods? So it's not 'just an iPod' as many keep repeating. It's an iPhone, without the phone, which makes it a PDA. A cool one you can also play music and videos and show photos on it too if you want.

lyngo
Sep 10, 2007, 10:13 AM
Guess what, some people here work and don't have time to parse every syllable posted. BTW, I just made another major point, bringing it to 3.



Actually, it's keeping their products consistent. The iPod is an iPod, not a PDA.

You have a legitimate argument here... and I understand that full well. The iPod touch is an iPod, absolutely. But why in the world would you still be able to add contacts (according to the features page you can still do!) and not add to the calendar?

The second argument I have is a simple one, the ability to do such was there in the first place! It is false advertising and people ordered these units under that pretense! The iPod touch is an iPod, but it was advertised to do other things that traditional iPods couldn't and that is ADD!

They took that away and honestly, that is not right. I know that this is my first post on this site, but I have been lurking for a long time. This situation just upsets me and I didn't even place an order. I can only feel for those of you who have... Paying for something you won't get is NOT cool!

ksolano
Sep 10, 2007, 10:21 AM
the main point isn't the question is the ipod touch a pda or not.
People are forgetting the fact that only last week/ a few freaking days ago, Apple was happyily promoting being able to edit calender and contacts (one of their main selling points)
Then within a days of preorders the line about being able to edit the calendar/contacts on the ipod touch was very recently removed.
Bad Apple!! you should take preorders for Finished products, not in public reduce the function of an "Expected" feature.

Its the same as if i was selling u a flying car.. then a few day later, once i got u'r credit infomation; oh sorry it doesnt fly. You'll be pissed off too!

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 10:27 AM
the main point isn't the question is the ipod touch a pda or not.
People are forgetting the fact that only last week/ a few freaking days ago, Apple was happyily promoting being able to edit calender and contacts (one of their main selling points)
Then within a days of preorders the line about being able to edit the calendar/contacts on the ipod touch was very recently removed.

Good point. Apologies for getting off the issue. I'm getting caught up in the sidetrack of those who keep saying Apple's behaviour is okay because it's 'just an iPod' so new features shouldn't be expected anyway.

Malcster
Sep 10, 2007, 10:32 AM
Good point. Apologies for getting off the issue. I'm getting caught up in the sidetrack of those who keep saying Apple's behaviour is okay because it's 'just an iPod' so new features shouldn't be expected anyway.

I may well be banging on about it being just an iPod, that doesn't mean i wouldn't love to see it do more stuff, im just trying to put across what i think must be apple's current thinking.

As the iPhone is now very clearly showing, this excellent little device that apple has come up with has very few limitations as to what it could run, and i would hate to be in apple's position where they have to decide what it can and cannot do.

Stella
Sep 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
Apple certainly are crippling the Touch. Any more functionality removal and it wwn't be much different from the Classic, apart from the Safari component ( and WiFi stuff )

Nemisis
Sep 10, 2007, 10:52 AM
Wow...without it being able to add calender events...it's ruined. Despite the fact that it's an iPod that plays music and videos on a 3.5" touchscreen display...it's ruined cause it can't add calender events...It's the end of the world.

Get over it. It's an iPod, not an iCalender.

Evangelion
Sep 10, 2007, 10:53 AM
the problem with some people's thinking is

when they consider the whole situation, they put apple's profit above end-users' benefit. and Thats NOT good!

Are you saying that we are worse off if Apple is proftable?

I know exactly what I was saying.

I don't think so

Each words represent exactly what they mean.

Freedom, users should be able to enjoy the variety native 3rd party apps with a OS as big as windows 98, rather than restricted in 3 or 5 apps.

So, you feel that you are entitled to third-party apps? Well, you are not. I don't complain when I can't install third-party apps to my DVD-plaer, why should I complain when I can't do that to my iPod? If I wanted something that worked well with third-party apps, I would look elsewhere. You could do so as well, there ARE other products in the market besides iPods.

Evolution, everything is improving forward, rather than give users mixed options. even when iPod Touch has the potential to be top of the line, all in one, apple made it to a situation that users have to pick both Touch and another iPod to meet their needs

How so? I don't need several iPods to suit my needs. If you or someone feels that he needs more than one iPod, that's because of _your_ choices and priorities, and not because something Apple did or did not do. Or are you saying that Apple should be offering just one model of iPod: one that is as small and lightweights as Shuffle, comes with a clip like Shuffle does, has screen as big as Touch and as much storage as 160GB Classic? That way you would only need one iPod for all possible needs. Is that what you are demanding here?

And like it or not, touch is a huge step forward when compared to every other iPod.

Technology, every technology is invented to serve users so they can finish their task, enjoy their life more easily, while Apple, restricted OS to a degree that it only can do 4 or 5 things.

So, should I now be complaining because touch does not help me accomplish my task of editing RAW-pictures?

User experiences. Why users can not enjoy their device to its full potential?

Because Apple wants to separate their product better.

Monopoly, by marketing it as an iPod, Apple is using the existing market of iPod users, is that a smart marketing strategy? yes, but so what? once you ask yourself, what is the definition of an iPod? its then obvious iPod Touch is more of a weak PDA than a normal iPod. apple is using its dominate in music player market to push a PDA.

Since Apple is not a monopoly, I fail to see the point of this particular argument.

PS, I wouldn't rant for other people's benefit, I rant because I might want to get one... and I want my device to act to its potential rather than only being a browsing machine....

And what exactly is the "potential"? You do realize that the computer you used to type your message is nowhere near using it's full potential. Why aren't you whining about that?

Zwhaler
Sep 10, 2007, 10:57 AM
Why?? They used the old bait and switch on us. I dont use it so I dont care, but they better not do the same to cooler features.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 10:58 AM
I may well be banging on about it being just an iPod, that doesn't mean i wouldn't love to see it do more stuff, im just trying to put across what i think must be apple's current thinking.

As the iPhone is now very clearly showing, this excellent little device that apple has come up with has very few limitations as to what it could run, and i would hate to be in apple's position where they have to decide what it can and cannot do.

Well, it looks like it may very well soon do more stuff and there'll be tons of apps for the iPhone/Touch if this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4160294&postcount=83) in the other thread is any indication.

The gist of it is that there appears to be evidence in the current developer releases of Leopard of a possible upcoming SDK for the iPhone/Touch.

propropro
Sep 10, 2007, 10:59 AM
But why a crippled calendar app and a no crippled contacts app?? it' totally nonsense :confused:

bretm
Sep 10, 2007, 11:02 AM
The essentials of a PDA are maintaining a contacts list (which the touch lets you do) and a calendar, along with the people asking for a To Do list it becomes a PDA.

To Apples credit or detriment they have a drawn a line between the functionality of the iphone and the ipod, you have to decide whether it fits your needs or not.

You know what? If you can't enter data, what the hell good is TOUCH anyway? I can touch a regular iPod calendar too and get the same result. No entry. I can also touch the click wheel on a regular ipod and get BETTER functionality than touching the onscreen controls for ff rew and volume on a touch or iphone. The truth is, without the pda and phone capabilities of the iphone, the iphone is a much harder, 2 handed at times, interface than the click wheel is. Volume is on the bottom, ff at the top, back to menu button upper left, etc. The buttons are all over the place. PLUS you literally have to look at the screen to find them since there's no actual audible or physical feedback. Without the data entry, it's better called an ipod widescreen.

Fuchal
Sep 10, 2007, 11:04 AM
This is terrible, can't believe Apple would intentionally cripple the device like this.

Since when does Apple not cripple their devices? :D This is not news.

Zwhaler
Sep 10, 2007, 11:05 AM
But why a crippled calendar app and a no crippled contacts app?? it' totally nonsense :confused:

Maybe contacts is next on Apples hit list...

propropro
Sep 10, 2007, 11:08 AM
Maybe contacts is next on Apples hit list...

It wouldn't be good, but at least it would have more sense...

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 11:09 AM
Fair do's. But there is clearly a line drawn between the touch and the phone, touch is an ipod through and through, im not sure why people suddenly expected it to inherit PDA functionality.

PDA functionality is somewhat required in a smartphone, so the iphone has it, the touch is clearly just an ipod and does not.

Funny then, that the Touch has a web browser.;)

When the Touch was first announced, it was made to seem as if it had the ability to serve as a PDA. Apple probably realized the potential conflict it would create and decided to create a larger gap between the Touch and the iPhone. If this is the case, then Apple owes everyone an apology, and the opportunity to cancel their orders. Fraud is never ok.

ucfgrad93
Sep 10, 2007, 11:16 AM
Can't say that I'm surprised by this move. No other iPod has the ability to input into the calendar, so this move keeps that consistant through the iPod line.

zelman
Sep 10, 2007, 11:19 AM
I can't believe some people would think apple is above crippling their devices. It has been a staple of their computer market strategy for a long time. The simplest example off the top of my head is the fact that consumer macs couldn't do screen spanning without a hack which enabled a feature of the GPU that apple had disabled. I think this may have since changed, but it's their general MO.

The Stig
Sep 10, 2007, 11:21 AM
If you can't put in calendar appointments from your touch then forget. It is useless to me. I'm already not buying one because it doesn't have notes. I'm really not buying one if this is try. Waste of my time and money.

The Stig

propropro
Sep 10, 2007, 11:21 AM
The problem as I see it: there is not enough price difference between Touch and iPhone to justify its poor capabilities and crippled features. I think that's the point.

sushi
Sep 10, 2007, 11:23 AM
I think one could safely say that Apple is testing the waters with the Touch before deciding is it going to be an iPod or a PDA.

My guess if it sells well then they will probably continue to develop it to the point it may become a PDA.

Being a Newton user I found changing the icons at the bottom (dock) interesting. Some other UI items reminded me of the Newton as well. Who knows, this may be Apple's back door into the PDA market.

balamw
Sep 10, 2007, 11:29 AM
If Apple was seriously positioning the iPod Touch as a PDA/ultra-portable computer, I'd be all over it. However it seems very clear that they are not. So, I just bought the 3G nano as my next iPod. Even the iPhone is very lacking as a PDA/smartphone. The lack of a filesystem or copy/paste are significant limitations.

That said, I think there's a key feature missing in the iPod Touch as a WiFi enabled iPod that I haven't seen mentioned in any threads I've read.

:apple:TV-like streaming from nearby libraries.

Just think of it. If I could stream any of the tracks from my PC or Mac to the iPod Touch while at home (or work, or on the road with my laptop) it would greatly offset the need for larger flash memory or a HDD.

B

Jarbo
Sep 10, 2007, 11:31 AM
Even the calendar on the iphone needs much improvement.

The idea of removing an already feature-lacking application is shameful.

They should be adding fixing the features that are missing or not working.

ejrizo
Sep 10, 2007, 11:32 AM
If Apple was seriously positioning the iPod Touch as a PDA/ultra-portable computer, I'd be all over it. However it seems very clear that they are not. So, I just bought the 3G nano as my next iPod. Even the iPhone is very lacking as a PDA/smartphone. The lack of a filesystem or copy/paste are significant limitations.

That said, I think there's a key feature missing in the iPod Touch as a WiFi enabled iPod that I haven't seen mentioned in any threads I've read.

:apple:TV-like streaming from nearby libraries.

Just think of it. If I could stream any of the tracks from my PC or Mac to the iPod Touch while at home (or work, or on the road with my laptop) it would greatly offset the need for larger flash memory or a HDD.

Bthis is what i have been hopeing for on my iphone

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 11:32 AM
I think one could safely say that Apple is testing the waters with the Touch before deciding is it going to be an iPod or a PDA.

My guess if it sells well then they will probably continue to develop it to the point it may become a PDA.

Being a Newton user I found changing the icons at the bottom (dock) interesting. Some other UI items reminded me of the Newton as well. Who knows, this may be Apple's back door into the PDA market.

Ditto here re the Newton. I've even coined the term iSaac for it (as a tribute to the Newton while keeping the 'i' theme. ;))

I predict it will outsell the iPhone by Christmas and Apple will revitalize and dominate a whole new PDA market just as they did with the mp3 player market. But only if they release the SDK with Leopard.

ndheah
Sep 10, 2007, 11:33 AM
******* it, they've changed it on the Australian Apple store too.

Can Apple cripple an advertised spec after receiving the orders? Do they have small print that says "specs may change without notice before shipping"?

I'm no expert but I believe that's illegal here, and is called bait and switch.

I ordered an iPod touch which can enter calendar events as advertised, so that's what I'm expecting. Oherwise I assume they have to cancel my order and ask me to resubmit a new order. I assume they at least have to let me know the specs have changed and ask if I want to keep the order intact.

Read the Terms of Agreement when you first signed up for an apple account. You can still cancel your order you know. Problem solved.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 11:38 AM
Read the Terms of Agreement when you first signed up for an apple account. You can still cancel your order you know. Problem solved.

Assume I'm not a member of Macrumors forum so I'm unaware of the specs being changed before shipping. It's beholden of them to inform me.

I'm getting it anyway. I've been waiting for a Newton for 10 years, crippled or no, so I'll take what they got. ;) And the news of the potential SDK in Leopard makes this whole discussion moot anyway, if it's true.

Seth VIII
Sep 10, 2007, 11:40 AM
Looks like the two big arguments here are:

1- it's just an iPod. No need to edit Calendar events;

2- It's an iPhone just without the phone capabilities, but where is my Calendar "add" button?

Apple has been doing this kind of business since it first launched the MacBook. If you wanted the black one, you had to waste significantly more money on it.
Now Apple did it by spliting the features we always wanted in ONE iPod into two iPods (read classic and touch).

I don't like this way of doing things and I'm sure none of you do too.

blaaat
Sep 10, 2007, 11:45 AM
Read the Terms of Agreement when you first signed up for an apple account. You can still cancel your order you know. Problem solved.

like everyone is constantly reading the apple website, and look for differences, they should at least give all customers information that the specs have changed, so everybody can choose if they want to cancel, and not just wait till the product arrives.

I didn't liked the fact that there was no mail on the iPod touch, but i could use webmail (using mail without internet makes no sense), so i pre-ordered a touch. using calendar without mail makes sense, so i don't like this fact.

I'm trusting on hacks, but i hoped that wasn't necessary (no problems with updates etc).

clevin
Sep 10, 2007, 11:47 AM
for people who are satisfied with iPod Touch in its current form(crippled 4-5 apps, 8/16G without any expansion slot).

adding more features will NOT in anyway prevent you from enjoying it as you expected, so rather than defending apple's market strategy, profit, why not defending other users' benefit?

Its not like apple is dying and desperately poor....

miketcool
Sep 10, 2007, 11:47 AM
Just a guess...

If the iPod touch is experienceing issues entering in information (software) Apple would have to pull the specs until the bugs are worked out. This wouldn't be the first time Apple has pulled a feature because it wasn't 100% go, only to reissue it later on. Don't have a cow yet, you'll have plenty more opportunities to give raise to a herd.

Buschmaster
Sep 10, 2007, 11:58 AM
I've used my calendar on iCal for about a year now. I really like the way it works on my MacBook and love the way it flows easily and seemlessly onto my 5G iPod.

Chances are in real world experience this won't hurt that many people that often at all.

Sure it would've been a nice feature but I'm guessing most of you charge your device daily or at least every other day, correct? And so you could probably dock it that often. So if you're going to be on your computer that often and really want all those calendar events on your iPod Touch, well, you still can.

queshy
Sep 10, 2007, 12:05 PM
There better be a change/fix for this, or I'll be pretty angry. Otherwise they are just begging for a ton of cancelled orders. They shouldn't convince all these people to order by promising a product they can't even deliver.

balamw
Sep 10, 2007, 12:09 PM
Chances are in real world experience this won't hurt that many people that often at all.

I stopped syncing my calendar/contacts to a PDA a few years back and have used my 5G iPod, and plan to shift it to my new 3G nano. It's a great way to carry your schedule with you for quick checks.

However, the big issue is that the one way sync from the PC/Mac to the iPod is very limiting. To update your schedule, you need to make a note of an appointment elsewhere (on a scrap of paper) update your main calendar and
then sync again.

There's no technological reason that the iPod Touch can't do this since the iPhone already does.

B

mrgreen4242
Sep 10, 2007, 12:17 PM
I am very shocked at Apple for doing this, if indeed it does end up being the cae. Personally I think apple will ship it with full features and eventually open it up allowing us to install apps as we please.
Doesn't really affect me as I am going to use my touch for browsing web, Music and Video.....So my order is staying

ShadoW

Wow Apple is turning into Microsoft. Why the hell wouldn't they allow people to edit a calender, if the the capability is there then why take it away. Whats next you can only go to pre-bookmarked sites on safari and they eliminate the keyboard function therefore one cant use google to search??? At first I was thinking maybe I won't hack the Touch, maybe I would just leave it be but now I am not sure I can do that, with no calender and no NOTES feature WTF.

All I know is I haven't pre-ordered this baby yet and I am reconsidering a purchase, maybe I will wait until hackers make it into a proper non crippled device.

Why is this surprising to anyone? Apple has been crippling hardware to protect sales of more expensive devices for a long time. My favorite example is the Superdrive in the mini... you can only get it if you upgrade to the more expensive model that has a bigger HDD and faster CPU, even all you want is a DVD burner.

It's same thing: want basic PDA functions? Well, cough up the extra $100 and the monthly fee (which Apple gets a cut of). I'm waiting for the next version of the touch to push the price of the current 16gb down to $250 or so refurbished. By that point I'm hoping hackers have taken care of most of the features I think are vital but missing from the Touch. If not, well, my 5G Video is pretty darn good as it is.

Loge
Sep 10, 2007, 12:25 PM
However, the big issue is that the one way sync from the PC/Mac to the iPod is very limiting. To update your schedule, you need to make a note of an appointment elsewhere (on a scrap of paper) update your main calendar and
then sync again.

You could always use the Notes app. :p;)

They should at least be using a different icon for the "read-only" calendar. It just looks like an ill-thought out last minute decision.

Evangelion
Sep 10, 2007, 12:35 PM
for people who are satisfied with iPod Touch in its current form(crippled 4-5 apps, 8/16G without any expansion slot).

adding more features will NOT in anyway prevent you from enjoying it as you expected, so rather than defending apple's market strategy, profit, why not defending other users' benefit?

Its not like apple is dying and desperately poor....

Well, if you want the missing functionality, maybe you should get a product that has that particular feature? And if touch is crippled, what does that make regural iPod in to? touch is still a lot more versatile and capable than classic or nano is, are those two "crippled"?

Would I like the touch to have editable calendar? Absolutely! But I cant get my panties in a bunch over this, since this just seems like a issue that COULD be different, yet isn't. Why aren't people getting annoyedeven though iPod doesn't have user-adjustable EQ? Where are the comments that say "I want to use this device to it's maximun potential!"?

Evangelion
Sep 10, 2007, 12:38 PM
Why?? They used the old bait and switch on us. I dont use it so I dont care, but they better not do the same to cooler features.

No, this isn't bait and switch. It's not like they sold you one device, and delivered something else. First of all, editable calendar was never the major feature on the device, it was just mentioned in a passing in some website. Second: Even if you had ordered your touch the moment it became available, you would still be long way off from actually getting it.

So the errenous feature was mentioned in a passing for few days, until it was removed from the website. And it was removed long before the device actually became availabe.

macjonny1
Sep 10, 2007, 12:52 PM
I stopped syncing my calendar/contacts to a PDA a few years back and have used my 5G iPod, and plan to shift it to my new 3G nano. It's a great way to carry your schedule with you for quick checks.

However, the big issue is that the one way sync from the PC/Mac to the iPod is very limiting. To update your schedule, you need to make a note of an appointment elsewhere (on a scrap of paper) update your main calendar and
then sync again.

There's no technological reason that the iPod Touch can't do this since the iPhone already does.

B



OK I'm going to give you all the solution you have been waiting for. Try SPANNING SYNC! It syncs your gmail calendar with ical. You can update your calendar in real time on your gcal, and then when you get home to your mac you can sync your ical with it. Like magic, any gcal appts that you added during the day are on ical. I work with a PC during the day and use that as my calendar app, and then sync my mac at home! It works really really well.

Not as nice as having a real ical on the ipod touch....but it works.

Ninden
Sep 10, 2007, 12:58 PM
Wow, talk about a buzz kill.

I know I'm still going to get one, as I want it mainly for video watching... but damn I admit this move pisses me off a bit. Lets face it, this isn't the first time Apple has pulled info from the websites after people saw something and started talking. Like the supposed Leopard feature of fast Mac/Win switching without rebooting. They axed that off the site pretty quick after WWDC.

I feel that one thing needs to be pointed out to the "it's an iPod not PDA, so it's not crippled" folks. The truth of the matter is it is being crippled.
It is the iPhone hardware. From there they are stepping it down by removing bluetooth, the phone, the camera, the speakers, etc. This is only to be expected however. It's an iPod, not an iPhone.

The core system hardware is looking to be very similar, however. Which means the programs running on the touch could also be identical to the iPhone. Naturally some will get axed as they are for phone or constant wi-fi connectivity.
To this end, it's understandable that even the email app is not there, as you would not always be in a hotspot for the mail app to check your mail.

However, the calendar and the contacts could easily be the exact same programs as on the iPhone. There is no reason to modify them, as they are not hardware dependent. The argument of "well earlier iPod's couldn't edit the calendar so this one shouldn't either" fails the logic test. Because you couldn't edit contacts on an iPod either, but you can on the touch (For now anyway :rolleyes: ). Therefore there is no good explanation for why this program is being, yes I'm saying it, crippled. That is precisely what they are doing, and it sucks.

I'm also just straight up confused by the notes application. Even older iPods have the ability to view notes (but not edit naturally). Now it seems as the entire option is gone. So that, blows the "earlier iPod" precedence right out of the water.

In the end, I guess I'm just stuck saying that I want it to at least do what prior iPods could do, and since it's been a few years, maybe even a little bit more. There is no doubt that it certainly hits that mark, and I will still get one the day it comes out. I'm just sad that they would go out of their way to make it worse.

m2uk
Sep 10, 2007, 01:09 PM
Maybe the way is to order the unit (or many) and then return them opened after discovering the problem... this might focus Apple's mind more than whinging on an Internet BB.

Sweetbike40
Sep 10, 2007, 01:10 PM
I am so upset with all this. I've been pretty supportive of Apple all this time but this is horrible. I'm going to cancel my order for the Touch and buy NOTHING. Apple has made a mess. Advertising the calendar, then taking it away. I only was willing to pay $400 for a 16G iPod because of the other features on it. To me, it's just not worth it otherwise. I'm really bummed. We are just asking for such simple things. It's not like i'm asking to run Photoshop on it? Just simple little things.

Maybe it's time to look at other devices from other companies.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 01:13 PM
OK I'm going to give you all the solution you have been waiting for. Try SPANNING SYNC! It syncs your gmail calendar with ical. You can update your calendar in real time on your gcal, and then when you get home to your mac you can sync your ical with it. Like magic, any gcal appts that you added during the day are on ical. I work with a PC during the day and use that as my calendar app, and then sync my mac at home! It works really really well.

Not as nice as having a real ical on the ipod touch....but it works.

This supports my point from a previous post. Safari's not disabled, so why disable iCal and drive Apple iTouch customers to use Google's calendar via Safari instead? It's serves Apple no purpose whatsoever that I can see. I just don't get it.

Ditto email and all other apps.

PS. Good tip, btw.

agentkow
Sep 10, 2007, 01:16 PM
That was probably just a marketing mix-up, if there anything like our guys there easily confused :rolleyes:

It's still there in plain text on the Canada site, it's not like it slipped out of someone's mouth or anything...

http://www.apple.com/ca/ipodtouch/features.html?feature=multitouch

owen-b
Sep 10, 2007, 01:17 PM
Maybe the way is to order the unit (or many) and then return them opened after discovering the problem... this might focus Apple's mind more than whinging on an Internet BB.

Yeah, CLEVER! At 10% re-stocking fee per unit, that's real smart stuff! Good luck getting Apple to waive it.

macjonny1
Sep 10, 2007, 01:19 PM
This supports my point from a previous post. Safari's not disabled, so why disable iCal and drive Apple iTouch customers to use Google's calendar via Safari instead? It's serves Apple no purpose whatsoever that I can see. I just don't get it.

Ditto email and all other apps.

PS. Good tip, btw.


Yep you are right. I was going to buy the touch to use as a ipod/PDA as all i need are contacts/calendar at this time. Really no need to not have it for an osx based devise. All those who say "the ipod never had this before blah blah" all I have to say is there has never been an ipod based on an OS like this before.

m2uk
Sep 10, 2007, 01:22 PM
Maybe things are different in the US. In Europe there is no restocking fee. Or I have never been charged one for returning goods purchased via the online Apple store.

agentkow
Sep 10, 2007, 01:27 PM
Crap. It's 11:24 am and it's gone from the Canada site now, too.

For those of us in Canada who were waiting for the closest thing we can get to an iPhone, this truly sucks.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 01:30 PM
Crap. It's 11:24 am and it's gone from the Canada site now, too.

For those of us in Canada who were waiting for the closest thing we can get to an iPhone, this truly sucks.

11 minutes. Now I know they're reading these forums. You alerted them to the one they missed! ;)

agentkow
Sep 10, 2007, 01:33 PM
However, on the Canadian Future Shop page, where I'm pre-ordering it from, it still has the original specs, so here's hoping I can still complain.

Future Shop link (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10092775&catid=23593)

xenotaku
Sep 10, 2007, 01:34 PM
heh, apple has a serious problem on their hands. They release the iPhone, an amazing product with gorgeous features and UI, limited by two major factors: 1) Lack of 3G support, 2) Lack of space.

People start wondering, if the iPhone is the best iPod ever, why isn't there a stand alone iPod with the same touch technology, but with more space (due to lack of phone hardware)? So, they come up with the iPod Touch.

It's a nice product. The only problem is, we know what it's capable of. It should have everything the iPhone has (it is the exact same software!), except the phone features. They pretty much do that at the revealing, giving us calendar support, notes, internet browsing...etc.

Then the problem arises...this thing is the same damn product as the iPhone. It even looks exactly the same. Why the hell would anyone buy both of them? Can you imagine opening your bag and seeing an iPhone and an iPod touch? It would be ridiculous. You can't even tell them apart. What they essentially did was create a product that is directly competing with their own product. They realized this, and had to strip back the features of the iPod Touch. Of course, by this mix up, people are now aware what the Touch is capable of, and it's not only inviting hackers, but also portraying Apple as being too short sighted, something they usually are not.

Once Flash memory becomes cheaper, there won't be a need for an iPod touch. People that buy the touch are buying a product that is filling a niche for the time being before iPhone can expand. If you could buy a 100gig iPhone, or a 100gig iPod Touch...which would you buy? They do the EXACT same thing (in theory) other than make phone calls. Because of this MAJOR problem, Apple has to strip down the Touch, even though it's capable of more. I think its a major problem for Apple.

They should have the normal iPod line, and then the iPhone, nothing more. Don't make people activate the phone service if they don't want to. If they want a "touch" then buy an iPhone/PDA/whatever you use it for. If you want a normal iPod, buy the classic or lower models.

The Touch in theory is a cool product, but its going to cause way to many problems than its going to solve. To put it bluntly, Apple has really screwed up here. Unless it knows it is just buying time until they can discontinue the Touch, and have the iPhone be free from ATT activation requirements ans serve the purpose as both a Touch and an iPhone.

StothaD37
Sep 10, 2007, 01:39 PM
I wonder if they didn't build this capability in because it would then be to similar to the iPhone minus calling. Then if you could use your iPod as a PDA with WIFI, do you really need the iPhone if you have everything else in it?

psychofreak
Sep 10, 2007, 01:42 PM
I wonder if they didn't build this capability in because it would then be to similar to the iPhone minus calling. Then if you could use your iPod as a PDA with WIFI, do you really need the iPhone if you have everything else in it?

I'm sure thats it - same reason there's no Weather, Stocks, Notes etc.

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 01:43 PM
What they essentially did was create a product that is directly competing with their own product.

I don't see them competing at all. Many people like myself already have a phone, so won't buy an iPhone (contracts etc), but would still like to have the rest of the features. But when the time comes in the future to upgrade the old phone, I'd upgrade both the iPod touch and phone into the one unit iPhone.

So I see it as a feeder product. Start off with an iTouch and your current phone, then upgrade to a single iPhone later.

Very much like the Mac Mini is a feeder product for PC switchers who want to keep using their current screens and keyboards, but then when it comes to upgrade, there's the iMac.

JPyre
Sep 10, 2007, 01:45 PM
I'm surprized you people aren't crying that theres no weather app, it's an iPod, not and iPod + Phone + Communications Device ;)

Safari is only on there because of the bastards that actually charge for wifi and make terrible html wifi logon pages.

People that charge for wifi, or even password protect it, need to drown slowly, although you future touch owners should thank them.

m2uk
Sep 10, 2007, 01:45 PM
Here is the information from Apple Store Finland. Of course Apple are also "breaking/bending" the law claiming they only offer a 1 year guarantee when EU consumer regulations call for at least two years... EU Distance Selling regulations also are another thing..

How can I return an item?

Returns can be arranged via our online Self Service website.
Please visit our Step-by-Step Guide to learn how to return an item online.

If you change your mind, you can return your Standard or Configured-to-Order hardware to us within 14 calendar days of delivery. Software returns are also accepted within this period, but only if the software package is unopened.

If you do wish to return your order, or just certain items from it, please use our online Self Service website or contact us. Be sure to to provide the following details:
Your Web Order Number.
The full address from where we can collect the goods.
A contact phone number
A preferred time for our carriers to call
On receipt of your e-mail, we will provide you with a Return Material Authorisation (RMA) number. Indicating this number clearly on the packaging of the goods you are returning will help ensure that your returns are processed quickly. Customers returning unwanted goods during this 14-day remorse period will incur a charge for collection and processing.
Please visit Section 7 of our terms and condition for comprehensive information about what items can be returned, return charges if applicable.

madmaxmedia
Sep 10, 2007, 02:11 PM
The only think that will really annoy me is if Apple goes out of their way to prevent people from copying over the apps from the iPhone. Because all indications (including that Gizodo post) are that the iPhone and Touch run the same exact OS, and even use many of the same binaries.

They haven't gone out of their way to prevent the iPhone from being hacked, or to prevent people from copying music from iPods. So I don't see this being any different.

No matter. All these limitations will be hacked in no time...I am going to wait before ordering, but I fully expect to see Notes, Mail, and fully-functional Calendar/Contacts on the Touch soon after it is released.

drchipinski
Sep 10, 2007, 02:15 PM
I think it is horse *****. I think they heard/read/saw people making moves to purchase the touch and not get a phone.

I am one of them.

The iphone is still not nearly 100% reliable.

My emails never get to me with any regularity, and the ATT coverage in Cleveland doesn't even come close to Verizon.

I have been through too many iphones with no luck, and thought the touch would be a great ipod and ipda.....I guess it is not.

I called Apple, and they neither agreed or disagreed with the above statements.

Horse bleep.

clevin
Sep 10, 2007, 02:19 PM
They haven't gone out of their way to prevent the iPhone from being hacked, or to prevent people from copying music from iPods. So I don't see this being any different.

greedy business, always, they didn't do nothing about iPhone hack because those hacks can boost iPhone sale, which they need, now they want to keep the iPhone alive, so they try to prevent iPod Touch from having too much attraction.

agentkow
Sep 10, 2007, 02:19 PM
I'm surprized you people aren't crying that theres no weather app, it's an iPod, not and iPod + Phone + Communications Device ;)

Us people aren't crying about the weather app because it was never advertised to have such a thing.

Stella
Sep 10, 2007, 02:42 PM
Don't expect anything over iPod features.. as it is just that.. an iPod.

But thats the point.. it isn't *just* an iPod. Or, at least, it shouldn't be. IF its just an iPod, why the virtual keyboard, Safari, the multi-touch screen? If its an iPod it should have a minimal interface... The point is, its more than just a basic iPod...

Its got mobile OSX built in... it isn't just an iPod.

Apple - once again - loses the plot at the last minute.

afallnstar
Sep 10, 2007, 02:45 PM
I am struggling with the fact that a large majority of the people who are saying that the iPod Touch is not a PDA and that it is just an iPod are also the same people who were saying that the iPod touch would not have nearly the capabilities of the iPhone. I am not sure how many of you all watched the actual keynote, but when Steve announced the iPod Touch he referred to it as the "phone-less iPhone".

Like it or not what Apple did was not right, legally they may be able to get away with it but all at the risk of losing tons of potential customers. They led a large majority of people to believe that this was going to be a phone-less iPhone and they have slowly taken away certain features. It isn't a matter of if they work or not because the iPod Touch platform and the iPhone platform are the same.

I wrote an email to the folks over at apple expressing to them how I felt about this change, and anyone else who is unhappy should do so also. All the people who bought the iPhone were able to cry because the chose to be early adopters we should be able to get the full potential from our iPod Touch.

The final thing I have to say is that the people who are comparing the iPod Touch to the Nano or Classic and saying that it isn't a PDA must be blind. I am not sure how you fail to see what Apple is doing here or even what the whole technology industry (specifically cellular) has been doing for the past several years. No item is just a MP4 player anymore, or a cell phone, or a calendar, or camera. All of these items are merging together and as of recently the quality of each of the given features has risen. A PDA is a personal digital assistant, so though the iPod may have started as just an iPod it is now a PDA, whether people like it or not.

Cheers ;)

viccles
Sep 10, 2007, 02:45 PM
I think I'd better go and check the apple site to see whats going on. Unless someone wants to explain to me :D

nirvana06
Sep 10, 2007, 02:52 PM
Why are people complaining about something that they dont have yet? Wait until Touch is actually out. I'm sure within weeks somebody will find a way to get all iPhone applications on it. All this bitching and moaning is just a waste of time.

propropro
Sep 10, 2007, 02:56 PM
Have you realized that at this moment, iPod Touch have less features than Classic? (yes, Touch has Wifi, but no display lyrics, no games, no notes app, no global search :( )

queshy
Sep 10, 2007, 02:59 PM
Bah, I say!

I won't cancel my order...but I am disappointed. I'm sure there will be a hack or an update that you can edit the calendar...I mean why would they let you edit contacts but not appointments? makes no sense...

JamesWvr
Sep 10, 2007, 03:00 PM
So I'm thinking that Apple will somehow make up for this because look at what happened when the iPhone dropped in price. iPhone users complained that they spent $200 extra (which I honestly believe is a crap complaint because, after all, technology drops in price very quickly) and they got $100 in Apple credit.

With the iPod touch, people that ordered one have a legitimate complaint because Apple was advertising something different from what the customers are actually going to receive.

As for me, I'm no longer going to get a touch and will instead spend LESS money and get a classic with much more HDD space and more features that I will actually use (such as games, and lyrics).

aswitcher
Sep 10, 2007, 03:10 PM
If true, and a permanent loss, then I am very disappointed.

I would ask that everyone leave feedback for Apple about this issue and asking for clarrification about what Apple intend for the future for this device.

mrgreen4242
Sep 10, 2007, 03:18 PM
If you could buy a 100gig iPhone, or a 100gig iPod Touch...which would you buy? They do the EXACT same thing (in theory) other than make phone calls.

I would buy the Touch iPod, hands down. You're making the logic mistake of assuming everyone has the same usage habits and requirements as you do, which is clearly not the case. There's a list of reasons I'm sure we could collectively come up with why I'd want a phoneless iPhone, but here's the one's I can think of off the top of my head in 30 seconds or less:

I don't want AT&T as a carrier. I LIKE my current phone (it's a ruggedized bar phone with no moving parts, excellent battery life - I recharge once every 10-14 days, it gets great reception, it has good audio quality). I don't want long phone conversations to drain my iPod/entertainment battery. I don't want watching LOTR extended edition to mean I miss an important call. I don't think paying $100 more for a phone in my iPod is a good value (my aforementioned phone that I like very much thank you was $50 with contract).

I would LOVE a Touch with 16-32gb (32gb would be nice, 16gb would be adequate) of memory, wifi w/ full broswer, full PDA features, and "normal" iPod features (music, video, photos, etc). I'm entirely uninterested in an iPhone, though. Just because YOU think something doesn't make it the case for everyone.


Safari is only on there because of the bastards that actually charge for wifi and make terrible html wifi logon pages.

People that charge for wifi, or even password protect it, need to drown slowly, although you future touch owners should thank them.

I'm going to ignore you comments about the Touch and focus on this statement. You think people who charge or even password protect their wifi are bastards that should DIE?

Ok, first off, you are aware that it costs money to have an internet connection at a facility, right? And that buying and maintaining a wireless AP costs money, too, right? If someone wants to charge other people money to use something that costs them money you think they are bastards? WTF kind of logic is that?

I'll agree that when places open up their wireless access for free it's NICE, and may be a good business move for them since it makes people more likely to visit their store, but it's THEY'RE decision and they're justified either way they go on it.

As for people who "even password protect" their wireless... well, I don't want people using my bandwidth, for one. I pay for it and I often use it to download large files, etc and I'm not keen on waiting longer to complete that download so that some freeloader can use MY connection. Not to mention the legal liability that you're open to if someone uses your AP to do something illegal and you didn't make any effort to secure that connection. It may or may not hold up in court, but who wants to go through the hassle?

applekid
Sep 10, 2007, 03:36 PM
I'm disappointed by the lack of apps on the iPod touch (or crippled in the case of the calendar).

I am totally getting an iPhone and taking the AT&T Go Plan route. I probably won't ever need to use it as a phone, but the iPhone and its apps is going to replace my Palm TX.

petvas
Sep 10, 2007, 03:38 PM
I would also like to be able to add and edit calendar events on the iPod touch, but I think we are all forgeting that this is an iPod. Its a media player! Its certainly the best of its kind and a revolutionary device! I am still getting one.

Having said that, I have to admit that I can't stop thinking that the underlying OS has a lot of potential that needs to be explored by a proper PDA! Even if the touch had calendar editing capabilities, it wouldn't be a PDA. It lacks features like Notes, Reminders, and 3rd Party applications support that would comprise a PDA...

Apple should give us exactly that with iPhone 2:

A Phone
a PDA with Calendar, Tasks, Notes, Reminders
GPS
3G Network support
proper Bluetooth

viccles
Sep 10, 2007, 03:45 PM
I somehow get a feeling that if there is no proper calander function then someone external to Apple will fix that :) Having said that, I hope Apple does change this!

trisjl
Sep 10, 2007, 03:53 PM
totally agree..

and this is what differentiates the touch with the phone..

phone = productivity + entertainment
touch = entertainment

That sounds a little bit like saying "serves those of us right who ordered an iPod touch instead of an iPhone". Well I don't personally expect features to disappear from something I have ordered but yet to receive. based on what they saw advertised.

I don't care about market segmentation and all that, that is simply not a justification for pulling a feature of a product once it is released to market, there may be a legal get out, but it is not good business. A particular point is that there is enough of a difference in the UK for example just based on price and factoring in of what is likely to be an expensive and long term contract to say hold on there.

Perhaps this will go down well in the States among aggrieved early iPHone adopters reeling from the latest (admittedly very large) price reduction. They may be thankful of some distinction however artificial is created to justify the heavy price of being an early adopter. Here in the UK and Europe it will be a different story altogether price wise when taken all in the round.

I can think of a number of technical reasons not to have your phone and music player be the same device, battery life being a very obvious and overlooked answer.

I cannot say that the calender will stop my order for an iPod Touch, but it is not nice having features knocked from underneath you even before you are in possession of the blighted thing.

At the very least Apple could do is give Ipod Touch users some choice in the matter by allowing those for whom this is a big issue the choice of paying some kind of nominal fee to add back in what should have rightfully been included in the first place given the sales blurb.

j-a-x
Sep 10, 2007, 04:13 PM
Why would anyone buy one of these with all of the features disabled (notes, calendars, email). At this point, you might as well buy an iPhone and not use the phone features. I have a feeling Apple is going to discontinue this one really soon because everybody is going to buy the iPhone, even without a phone contract, just for the extra features.

mrgreen4242
Sep 10, 2007, 04:16 PM
Why would anyone buy one of these with all of the features disabled (notes, calendars, email). At this point, you might as well buy an iPhone and not use the phone features. I have a feeling Apple is going to discontinue this one really soon because everybody is going to buy the iPhone, even without a phone contract, just for the extra features.

I don't think you can even do that... I think the iPhone is fairly useless until you activate it by buyign a contract of some sort.

cklosowski
Sep 10, 2007, 04:20 PM
The simple fact is that Apple said it would run the same apps, put it up for sale, and then changed it. It is also just frustrating that it's the same binaries as the iPhone. Why change soemething? We already don't have mail. Yes, no other ipod has had this ability to add events. No other ipod has ever had a QWERTY keyboard either. It's just pointless. The app is there, useable and viewable, but with this QWERTY keyboard, you can't edit it at all. That doesn't make sense to me.

agentkow
Sep 10, 2007, 04:22 PM
Have you realized that at this moment, iPod Touch have less features than Classic? (yes, Touch has Wifi, but no display lyrics, no games, no notes app, no global search :( )

I can get over the search because at least you can still get to artists or songs very quickly, but you know, I never realized that about the lyrics and it makes it even more sad. Couldn't you double tap the album or something, or have a button that takes you to other options like ratings and lyrics?

EssentialParado
Sep 10, 2007, 04:23 PM
There are plenty of web apps that have a calendar functionality, and yes, even calendars that automatically sync with your home computer over the net.

But hopefully Apple will fix it. It is kind of ridiculous to remove a functionality for no good reason.

clevin
Sep 10, 2007, 04:31 PM
There are plenty of web apps that have a calendar functionality, and yes, even calendars that automatically sync with your home computer over the net.

But hopefully Apple will fix it. It is kind of ridiculous to remove a functionality for no good reason.

one big difference is that iPod Touch is not 24/7 online as iPhone does, so web app is a unworthy idea, (not to mention the inherit limitation of its functionality)

angrygolfer
Sep 10, 2007, 04:45 PM
The simple fact is that Apple said it would run the same apps, put it up for sale, and then changed it. It is also just frustrating that it's the same binaries as the iPhone. Why change soemething? We already don't have mail. Yes, no other ipod has had this ability to add events. No other ipod has ever had a QWERTY keyboard either. It's just pointless. The app is there, useable and viewable, but with this QWERTY keyboard, you can't edit it at all. That doesn't make sense to me.

Amen Brother (or sister)

TheBobcat
Sep 10, 2007, 04:49 PM
Apple's really starting to grind my gears. You know, its one thing when a "lower tier" device simply doesn't have the speed/hardware for a feature, but when it's purposefully disabled for no other reason than to try and irritate users into upgrading it really makes me mad. Whatever, my 4G iPod is still working.

sososowhat
Sep 10, 2007, 04:51 PM
I wonder if all this "crippling" is so they don't violate some agreement w/ AT&T.

angrygolfer
Sep 10, 2007, 04:52 PM
I know alot of you could care less about the calendar. However (not that Apple cares) but they lost a sale from me. I have an iPhone so i am all set. However my wife has an old iPod mini. She asked me the other day if they still make Palm pilots because she wants some type of organizer with her all the time. I told her the new iPod Touch has calendaring and contacts like my iPhone. She would love the upgrade. My wife doesn't want an iPhone though because she uses her picture messaging on her current cell phone too much to give it up so the iPod Touch would have been perfect. Now it's a mute point. They pulled the feature so I pulled my desire to purchase one for my wife.

angrygolfer
Sep 10, 2007, 04:53 PM
I wonder if all this "crippling" is so they don't violate some agreement w/ AT&T.

My guess is Apple has negotiated their contract with AT&T such that they can do whatever the heck they want.

emotion
Sep 10, 2007, 04:59 PM
Even if the touch had calendar editing capabilities, it wouldn't be a PDA. It lacks features like Notes, Reminders, and 3rd Party applications support that would comprise a PDA...

Apple should give us exactly that with iPhone 2:

A Phone
a PDA with Calendar, Tasks, Notes, Reminders
proper Bluetooth


The current iPhone will do all that once Leopard comes out. Just you see.

petvas
Sep 10, 2007, 05:09 PM
The current iPhone will do all that once Leopard comes out. Just you see.

Well, the iPhone is still not available in Germany...I hope to have it by the end of the year but still I don't think that Apple will make it a full blown PDA in its current incarnation. I do believe that Apple will eventually add more features, but they will do it in their own, unique way (keep it simple!)

emotion
Sep 10, 2007, 05:17 PM
Well, the iPhone is still not available in Germany...I hope to have it by the end of the year but still I don't think that Apple will make it a full blown PDA in its current incarnation. I do believe that Apple will eventually add more features, but they will do it in their own, unique way (keep it simple!)

Well it's possible we, in Europe, might get a 3G device. I doubt it though, it might be 16GB however.

As for the apps, I'm serious. It hinges on Leopard. They were all meant to be there at launch but the ship date for Leopard slipped and slightly tarnished Apple's plan.

Sweetbike40
Sep 10, 2007, 05:21 PM
Maybe it's an internet issue here at work, but all the videos on the iPod Touch page play except for the Multi Touch section. Is this where they excluded the Calendar stuff? I just wonder why that is the only one that isn't working.

I haven't cancelled my order, yet. I want to see what/if Apple has anything to respond with to his customers.

For all those that say that this is just an iPod are wrong. If it was, they wouldn't have made the classic nor would they have included Wi-Fi or Safari at all. Everthing these days is an All-in-One. I decided agained the iPhone because i knock my phone around alot and see myself losing an iPhone at a club after a few drinks.

jcnyc
Sep 10, 2007, 05:22 PM
I've used my calendar on iCal for about a year now. I really like the way it works on my MacBook and love the way it flows easily and seemlessly onto my 5G iPod.

Chances are in real world experience this won't hurt that many people that often at all.

Sure it would've been a nice feature but I'm guessing most of you charge your device daily or at least every other day, correct? And so you could probably dock it that often. So if you're going to be on your computer that often and really want all those calendar events on your iPod Touch, well, you still can.

So what are you saying. If I am at work, and I need to enter an appointment, I should write it down on paper, or memorize it until I arrive home, then enter it into ical on my computer, then do a sync. What is the point of putting a program on a portable device and then removing the portability. Give me a break. Apple makes great products which is why I switched from a PC to a MBP. But steve, your loyal customers have helped get you where you are today so stop being a ********** d**k. No offense intended. I'm also thinking about canceling my Touch order.:mad:@:apple:

note235
Sep 10, 2007, 05:23 PM
just buy an iPhone

this is an iPod
the touch is for the new interface
soon people wil lwant everything the iPhone has except the phone
Camera
Map
App
Edge (Free internet?, not wifi?)

Redneck1089
Sep 10, 2007, 05:34 PM
I just wrote Apple and told them that this is seriously making me consider cancelling my order. I told them that it is unacceptable to advertize a product, allow people to put money down on it, and then change said product to something different than what was advertized after receiving money.


This really makes me mad.

nirvana06
Sep 10, 2007, 05:36 PM
I hope more people cancel their order so maybe i get my touch faster.

EricNau
Sep 10, 2007, 05:38 PM
If that's the case, I will not be purchasing one.

uNext
Sep 10, 2007, 05:39 PM
Apple will make money with current technology
until a bigger hard drive is available for the iphone.

Once apple have their money in place and the new hard drive is released
the ipod will just slowly start fading away.

I mean look at the ipod touch and the iphone...

Is it just me or does the ipod touch does not seem like a good buy?

I think apple wants to make money by selling you all new "ipods" but on their agenda the iphone is the future....theres no possible way apple can sit on the ipod for decades to come and not evolve it at all..

THE IPHONE IS THE FUTURE..

Imagine an ipod with 160gb capacity and phone functions?
come on it is so obvious of what apple is doing
their just waiting and making money..i mean no company will just sit back and not juice its fanbase.....

Dishrag
Sep 10, 2007, 05:48 PM
Holy cow, first they said yes, now they say no!?
WTF?? can anyone give us any serious answers? will we be able to input data into the ical app?

MMMM, could it be that they opted not to allow this because of the release in a month of Leopard and the new Mail and iCal...

Why turn something on that will be discarded in a month?

iLunar
Sep 10, 2007, 05:54 PM
THE IPHONE IS THE FUTURE..

Its only part of the future. The iPod is here to stay. For those who don't want a phone in their iPod, how is the iPhone the future? That reasoning doesn't make sense.

I am an iPhone owner, and I can absolutely 100% see why people would be pissed that the calendar app on the Touch isn't fully functioning. Its a big omission. There is no reason to limit features, at least no valid reason, from a customer stand point. If its going to hurt Apple's bottom line ($$$), that is the only thing that makes sense.

For all those saying that the iPod is a music device, media device, entertainment device, etc, then why bother with the extras at all?? Why bother putting contacts, calendar, etc in there at all?

The only other possibility is that they are developing a better calendar app and its not ready yet. But that seems highly unlikely.

Stella
Sep 10, 2007, 05:55 PM
[QUOTE=note235;4162398]
this is an iPod
/QUOTE]

So, why have the iPod touch, what in YOUR view is the point of the device 'if its just an iPod"?

Why not just stick WIFI ability on the classic that can communicate with iTMS store?

P-Worm
Sep 10, 2007, 06:30 PM
I canceled my order because of this. I hope you're happy Apple.

P-Worm

paymaster
Sep 10, 2007, 06:30 PM
They may be just trying to seperate one product from another, but the bottom line is it is going to cost them sales. The sad thing is, it wouldn't have cost them anything to just leave it in. I doubt very many people are going to get an iPhone instead of a touch in order to get this, but many people might have purchased a touch if it did have some PDA capabilities that now won't. And it's a seperate thing, but how many people have been waiting to replace their current ipod but now won't because of the memory. Sometimes you have to wonder what Apple is thinking, or maybe they are happy with the sales they have now.

nirvana06
Sep 10, 2007, 06:34 PM
They may be just trying to seperate one product from another, but the bottom line is it is going to cost them sales. The sad thing is, it wouldn't have cost them anything to just leave it in. I doubt very many people are going to get an iPhone instead of a touch in order to get this, but many people might have purchased a touch that now won't if it did have some PDA capabilities.

It might at the start....which is not a bad thing since it will be hard to meet the demand. A couple of weeks after shipment has started and people figure out a way to add same applications that iphone had people will jump back on board.

sblasl
Sep 10, 2007, 06:53 PM
I hope you don't consider yourself a "loyal customer", a "loyal customer" would never ever own a PC:rolleyes:.

...Give me a break. Apple makes great products which is why I switched from a PC to a MBP. But steve, your loyal customers have helped get you where you are today so stop being...

La Porta
Sep 10, 2007, 07:00 PM
It really is complete crap. The "just get an iPhone/it's just an iPod" thing is bogus. All I wanted was an iPhone that WASN'T a phone. I don't complain about lack of a mic, lack of a built-in speaker, or any of that. But seriously, i'm not paying extra cash, and signing up to pay AT&T God knows how much cash a month just to be able to enter items in iCal. Just because it isn't an iPhone doesn't mean that it should be for entertainment only. If it was just entertainment only, I would buy an iPod classic and call it a day. A click wheel is perfect for that. It is useless to build in all of the awesome interface features just so that you can add in Safari and iTunes wireless downloads.

Semi-anger here...but hoping for a reversal and/or hacking just so I can add calendar events.

P.S. - Anyone know if we can add address contacts??

rikahlberg
Sep 10, 2007, 07:02 PM
We ordered one with the intention of at least being able to access and change calender / todo lits etc, and sync with ical & addressbook whilst on the move.

Well, you can sync with iCal and Address Book, and you can access your calendar, but there is no todo list functionality on the iPhone or the iPod touch. None at all. We'll have to wait and see if Leopard's release in October fixes that for the iPhone and whether any Leopard features trickle down to the iPod touch.

hotwire132002
Sep 10, 2007, 07:20 PM
I canceled my order because of this. I hope you're happy Apple.

P-Worm

Same here. =(

MvdM
Sep 10, 2007, 07:21 PM
Who uses an offline calendar today if you can surf*/** to your favorite online calendar, sync it when you're at home and then finally watch it on your iPod***, that's really amazing! It totally, completely replaces the pencil (yuck!) and the paper.

* wireless connection needed, may not be available everywhere
** extra costs may apply (but who cares, you just paid $300/$400 for an iPod)
*** batteries not replaceable

Think different!

Did that sound familiar to you guys? It's the same stupid way of thinking when Steve said burning DVDs and sending them to grandma is history. Like everyone, including grandma, has broadband internet.

BiikeMike
Sep 10, 2007, 07:24 PM
I just wrote Apple and told them that this is seriously making me consider cancelling my order. I told them that it is unacceptable to advertize a product, allow people to put money down on it, and then change said product to something different than what was advertized after receiving money.


This really makes me mad.

I hope you used spell check when you wrote Apple a letter......

sushi
Sep 10, 2007, 07:36 PM
I predict it will outsell the iPhone by Christmas and Apple will revitalize and dominate a whole new PDA market just as they did with the mp3 player market. But only if they release the SDK with Leopard.
That would be nice. :)

Still use my Newton at home. Still amazed at it's capabilities, especially considering that it was discontinued 10 years ago. The iPhone/Touch is a nice size to carry around with you. The Newton is/was a bit too big.

If the iPhone/Touch platform can expand into it's own line with more PDA capabilities that would be sweet.

No item is just a MP4 player anymore, or a cell phone, or a calendar, or camera. All of these items are merging together and as of recently the quality of each of the given features has risen. A PDA is a personal digital assistant, so though the iPod may have started as just an iPod it is now a PDA, whether people like it or not.
Convergence seems to be happening for sure.

Apple is testing the waters with their current offerings. I see the things separating into two lines. The dedicated iPod (Shuffle, Nano & Classic) and the iPhone/Touch concept. Eventually we may see the iPhone and Touch as identical except one has the phone function and the other does not.

No other ipod has ever had a QWERTY keyboard either.
And they should use the keyboard feature as much as possible! :)

Reminds me of the Newton, different soft keyboards would pop up for the task at hand. Very convenient.

I'm also thinking about canceling my Touch order.
Personally, I always wait until I can test a new device before purchasing one.

skylerdavid
Sep 10, 2007, 07:37 PM
doesn't anyone have a calendar application on their standard phones? you can probably edit those on the go. why do you really need to use a calendar on a music device?

AoWolf
Sep 10, 2007, 07:48 PM
doesn't anyone have a calendar application on their standard phones? you can probably edit those on the go. why do you really need to use a calendar on a music device?

Why do you think people keep PDAs? To the people saying "Its just an iPod" what do you think the iPod classic is for? Why give it wifi its just an iPod" Movies why did we ever need those in the first place to it was just an MP3 Player right? Color screens, photo's who needed them right?

GravityEyes
Sep 10, 2007, 07:52 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg

"I'm canceling my order 'case Apple took away my calendar. Wahhhhh!!"

BigPrince
Sep 10, 2007, 07:58 PM
Kind of disappointing for apple to do something like this.

Muzzway
Sep 10, 2007, 08:05 PM
Most people who settled for the touch will not get an iPhone just for a feature like adding calendar events, but many (as we see) will cancel their order because of this. Whoever came up with this idea at Apple should get demoted. The touch has been crippled enough (not just this omission, but also those of notes, camera, etc.) that I'm just going to get a nano. Yes, I know all the stuff added to the touch is just extra.

jcnyc
Sep 10, 2007, 08:05 PM
I hope you don't consider yourself a "loyal customer", a "loyal customer" would never ever own a PC:rolleyes:.

I have spent a lot of money on Apple products, including a MBP and several ipods and still continue to spend money at Apple. I guess you don't think that is loyal enough. Judging by your comment, you must be 12 years old.

Whistleway
Sep 10, 2007, 08:13 PM
So really, all this extra dough and lack of storage just for touch? touch without basic calendar. great. I was hoping to buy one this month end at Apple Store. Now, I am not sure.

And this should be on FRONT PAGE. please~!

ipodmylife224
Sep 10, 2007, 08:33 PM
For all of you who are saying that it is illegal for Apple to provide incorrect specs for the calendar, I personally think it is fine for them to change what they saw however much they want because the product hasn't actually come out. Nobody's credit card has been charged yet for their iPod touch, so if you really hate that Apple changed that you are more than welcome to cancel your order.

Let's just be optimistic and hope that Apple will add this feature back onto the iPod touch.

sikkinixx
Sep 10, 2007, 08:37 PM
The feature would have been really nice but... I guess I can live without it. I hate when companies cripple their products :mad:

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 08:40 PM
For all of you who are saying that it is illegal for Apple to provide incorrect specs for the calendar, I personally think it is fine for them to change what they saw however much they want because the product hasn't actually come out. Nobody's credit card has been charged yet for their iPod touch, so if you really hate that Apple changed that you are more than welcome to cancel your order.

Let's just be optimistic and hope that Apple will add this feature back onto the iPod touch.

There isn't an unlimited right for Apple to change the details of their products. Granted, they have the legal right to change it before anyone has been charged for it, but the market isn't so forgiving. If people see that Apple keeps changing the specs or abilities of its hardware, people will stop buying products early on. They will wait until they know the full details of the product, and then buy. This will hurt the potential of other products Apple might want to release, because consumers will have less faith in that product delivering what Jobs promised. It's better in Apple's and consumers' interest if Apple keeps to its word.

w00master
Sep 10, 2007, 09:11 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg

"I'm canceling my order 'case Apple took away my calendar. Wahhhhh!!"

You know. I find this post just plain rude. Get a life.

Seriously, how can ANYONE defend Apple here? Seriously? It TRULY goes to show some people will just defend and kiss up to Apple in ANY WAY they can for WHATEVER reason! Sit down and think about it for a second (those of you who are defending Apple). Seriously think about this. Honestly, is removing the ability to add events on the iPod Touch a GOOD thing? Seriously? It doesn't matter if it's "just an iPod." It goes against consistency. It goes against "ease of use."

People EXPECT the iPod Touch to have the ability to ADD events. There's a touchscreen keyboard on there!

Again, think LONG and hard before you defend Apple BLINDLY. It's simply WRONG.

w00master

nirvana06
Sep 10, 2007, 09:16 PM
You know. I find this post just plain rude. Get a life.

Seriously, how can ANYONE defend Apple here? Seriously? It TRULY goes to show some people will just defend and kiss up to Apple in ANY WAY they can for WHATEVER reason! Sit down and think about it for a second (those of you who are defending Apple). Seriously think about this. Honestly, is removing the ability to add events on the iPod Touch a GOOD thing? Seriously? It doesn't matter if it's "just an iPod." It goes against consistency. It goes against "ease of use."

People EXPECT the iPod Touch to have the ability to ADD events. There's a touchscreen keyboard on there!

Again, think LONG and hard before you defend Apple BLINDLY. It's simply WRONG.

w00master

I don't think he was defending Apple by posting that picture. Just implying that a lot of cry babies here. Very valid point.

Cry babies that can't wait a couple of extra weeks after shipments, when all applications they want and more will be available to install on iPod Touch. Just like you can install applications on the iPhone.

w00master
Sep 10, 2007, 09:22 PM
I don't think he was defending Apple by posting that picture. Just implying that a lot of cry babies here. Very valid point.

Cry babies that can't wait a couple of extra weeks after shipments, when all applications they want and more will be available to install on iPod Touch. Just like you can install applications on the iPhone.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. Calling posters on here crybabies, you are in effect defending Apple.

People are disappointed in Apple. For most on here, Apple is their "favorite company." Apple who often does things that are great for consumers. Apple who brought "ease of use" and "user friendliness" to the masses.

The very simple act of removing the ability to add events, slaps many consumers in the face. Sure, Apple could add this later in (as well as other apps), but why did they remove in the first place? What's the point? What benefit could be brought? Sorry, but I absolutely see NONE.

w00master

Xavier
Sep 10, 2007, 09:22 PM
Ya personally I am more interested in what other 3 party apps that will be available. Calender would have been great but I probably wouldn't have used it all the much.

Hurry up september! I want it to be october already!

nirvana06
Sep 10, 2007, 09:37 PM
Ya personally I am more interested in what other 3 party apps that will be available. Calender would have been great but I probably wouldn't have used it all the much.

Hurry up september! I want it to be october already!

Exactly 3rd party apps will be great. Does anybody actually believe that iPhone applications wont make it to Ipod Touch?


I want slingbox application the most. That will just be awesome, watching TV on the go.

kugino
Sep 10, 2007, 10:03 PM
i was thinking about getting the touch while i'm still under my verizon contract...but having two crippled hardware - my verizon phone and the touch - would be too much for me. neither would have proper bluetooth functionality...neither can do calendars very well...etc. i'll just wait a few months until my verizon contract ends and get the 16GB iphone w/3G ;)

awmazz
Sep 10, 2007, 10:10 PM
Cry babies that can't wait a couple of extra weeks after shipments, when all applications they want and more will be available to install on iPod Touch. Just like you can install applications on the iPhone.

That's not the topic or issue of this thread.

Which is Apple crippling specs after falsely advertising and taking orders.

And their motivation for doing it.


So to tie your insult into the actual topic, you're saying it's fine for Apple to do what they did because the iTouch will be hacked eventually by third parties? If so, your idea of Apple and their products differs wildly to mine. I see the notion of wait for it to be hacked in order to get it to work properly is PC, not Apple. Apple products should work properly straight out of the box, not need hacks to enable them - as in "it needs to be what to get it to work?!? WTF?? Are we talking about Apple here?"

When they release the SDK, that'll be a completely different story, and I can wait for and look forward to lots of new apps. It's why I'm buying the iTouch, the potential is great. I expect even more apps in future from Apple themselves too.

But buggered if I have to use a hack on my iTouch to get even iCal to work properly. Or get the standard Apple Mail or Notes on it. The very idea of it disappoints me no end.

solarguy17
Sep 10, 2007, 10:53 PM
Same here. =(

P-Worm, hotwire I must commend your stubbornness to remember that apple is company in this to make money and not you personal make your own ipod buffet line.

They make a product and you whine like little twelve year old girls about it. It funny.

I remember last week before the keynote everyone is like, this better have wifi, 160GB HDD, Touch, Video, WirelessIMS. And guess what it had most of those desired features and yes it does only have a 16GB flash drive but I think its funny that even with only 10% of the desired storage you both ordered this.

But you take away the ability to write in the calender (which may not have been a feature in the first place, someone at Apple may have made a mistake, like person at Circuit City listing 8GB Touch for 199 on Thursday) and suddenly its not worth it anymore.

So I ask what were you paying the 399 for, the ipod/wifi/video/wirelessTMS or the edititable contacts list?

It seems as though you are wanting to spend 399 on an editable calender list, so I have a deal for you.

You send me 399.99 plus 6%sales tax and I will send you 1 five hundred sheet spril bound notebook for you to write down the events in and as a bonus 100 No 2 pencils!!!! And I will even include free shipping!!!! Great deal right!!!! Shoot me and email and let me know where you want me to send your new iSpiril Notebook and iNo. 2 Pencil.


EDIT: BTW I ordered a 16GB Touch without knowing that I could or couldnt edit calender items and guess what!!! Since I paid 399 for an ipod and not a fancy calender, I am going to let my order be delivered. Then when the calender function is made to work like you want, either by hackers or to many people crying and complaining about it to Steve (like they did with the iphone) I am going to make fun of you hard cre becuase then you wont be able to order one forever!!! HAHA!!!

GravityEyes
Sep 10, 2007, 11:08 PM
Sorry, but I completely disagree. Calling posters on here crybabies, you are in effect defending Apple.

w00master

Wow - ever taken a course in Logic? ... i seriously doubt it.

Calling out whinny childlike behavior = defending Apple?

Hmmmm .... hey, I call it like I see it.

Stella
Sep 10, 2007, 11:17 PM
Cry babies that can't wait a couple of extra weeks after shipments, when all applications they want and more will be available to install on iPod Touch. Just like you can install applications on the iPhone.

Why would Apple advertise functionality, and then remove it, only, as you say, they will re-introduce this later?

In the intro for iPod Touch - he said the Touch was like a iPhone but without the telephone part: he didn't say, "Like an iPhone but very much crippled - because we'll take all the applications away for you!".

Apple have been misleading twice.

Apple have had enough time to get the promotional material QA'ed and out there... and it took them several days to remove the editable calendars.. Why? Probably a 'last minute' revision... A lot of people are buying the Touch because they thought it would be a telephone-less iPhone will all the other functionality.. and they are right to be disappointed when Apple revise the functionality at a later date.

dontwalkhand
Sep 10, 2007, 11:24 PM
I still remember people complaining that the iPod mini not having a color screen.

People will always find something to complain about.

All my calendar events are entered on the computer beforehand anyways, and when I plug it in, iCal syncs it with my current 5.5G iPod.

w00master
Sep 10, 2007, 11:27 PM
Wow - ever taken a course in Logic? ... i seriously doubt it.

Calling out whinny childlike behavior = defending Apple?

Hmmmm .... hey, I call it like I see it.

And your picture was mature? RIIIGHT.

w00master

w00master
Sep 10, 2007, 11:30 PM
It's amazing that people will defend Apple to the dying end. For whatever reason. Sad.

This is the sort of stuff that Sony, Microsoft, etc. have been notorious in doing. Now, Apple is doing it, and the you have the Apple worshipers defending silly and illogical reasons.

Heck, even Mr. Gruber himself finds it "lame": http://tinyurl.com/38hvsn

Guess what, it is lame.

w00master

suneohair
Sep 10, 2007, 11:35 PM
I bet most of these people didn't even look at the specs before ordering. They hopped on the site as soon as it was available and ordered. But now its "Oh. Apple took away the one feature I bought their product for, now I am going to cancel my order!" Yeah ok. :rolleyes: I am sure

I haven't been able to load up the keynote yet, but did he say that you could enter events at the keynote? Something other than this one graphic that mentioned it? Sounds like they made a mistake and recycled a graphic and caught. Now the blog-scene is all over it and the whiners come out of the caves to do what they do.

Oh well. Cancel your orders. Everyone else will get theirs quicker. And I will be doing my duty with an iPhone soon.

macjonny1
Sep 10, 2007, 11:37 PM
Funny how all of the posts calling people whiners are from macrumors newbies. ...

suneohair
Sep 10, 2007, 11:38 PM
Funny how all of the posts calling people whiners are from macrumors newbies. ...

Most of the whiners tend to be newbies in fact... Take a look at that iPhone price drop thread.

sblasl
Sep 10, 2007, 11:45 PM
I have gotten so tired of newbies, so for the first time ever, I now have a signature that includes my thoughts on what should be done with newbies.

Stella
Sep 10, 2007, 11:56 PM
I have gotten so tired of newbies, so for the first time ever, I now have a signature that includes my thoughts on what should be done with newbies.

Just like an Elitist Mac user.

What makes YOU think YOU are better than a regular macrumors newbie? Do you think for some reason that newbies are recent switches who have no knowledge of the Apple landscape?

Typical....

--

People probably sign up and vent their frustrations, you'll get plenty of such sign ups on the Apple forums, for example.

PygmySurfer
Sep 11, 2007, 12:02 AM
I bet most of these people didn't even look at the specs before ordering. They hopped on the site as soon as it was available and ordered. But now its "Oh. Apple took away the one feature I bought their product for, now I am going to cancel my order!" Yeah ok. :rolleyes: I am sure


I researched the various websites for several hours, looking at all the specs, and that was actually one of the things that convinced me to order it.


I haven't been able to load up the keynote yet, but did he say that you could enter events at the keynote? Something other than this one graphic that mentioned it? Sounds like they made a mistake and recycled a graphic and caught. Now the blog-scene is all over it and the whiners come out of the caves to do what they do.

Steve said it "runs the same apps as the iPhone". Whether or not that implies editing calendar entries the same as on an iPhone or not, I don't know.

I'm not cancelling my order (mainly because I have faith that the issue of all these missing features will be resolved, if not by Apple than by unofficial hacks), but I do think its pretty weak to artificially cripple the product to steer people towards the iPhone. It's one thing not to include features that'd require additional hardware (bluetooth, camera, microphone for Skype), but its another to just cripple or remove applications.

Personally, I hope more people cancel, then maybe I'll get mine that much sooner :)

PygmySurfer
Sep 11, 2007, 12:06 AM
Just like an Elitist Mac user.

What makes YOU think YOU are better than a regular macrumors newbie? Do you think for some reason that newbies are recent switches who have no knowledge of the Apple landscape?

Typical....

--

People probably sign up and vent their frustrations, you'll get plenty of such sign ups on the Apple forums, for example.

I think sblasl forgets that he too was once a newbie here.

I imagine there's hundreds of new users signing up for the forums here daily - it's unfair to group them all together, just because some people may be joining the forums to complain about the iPod touch.

Of course, this is the same user who tried to claim one couldn't be a "loyal customer" if they owned a PC. :rolleyes:

P-Worm
Sep 11, 2007, 12:11 AM
P-Worm, hotwire I must commend your stubbornness to remember that apple is company in this to make money and not you personal make your own ipod buffet line.

They make a product and you whine like little twelve year old girls about it. It funny.

I remember last week before the keynote everyone is like, this better have wifi, 160GB HDD, Touch, Video, WirelessIMS. And guess what it had most of those desired features and yes it does only have a 16GB flash drive but I think its funny that even with only 10% of the desired storage you both ordered this.

But you take away the ability to write in the calender (which may not have been a feature in the first place, someone at Apple may have made a mistake, like person at Circuit City listing 8GB Touch for 199 on Thursday) and suddenly its not worth it anymore.

So I ask what were you paying the 399 for, the ipod/wifi/video/wirelessTMS or the edititable contacts list?

It seems as though you are wanting to spend 399 on an editable calender list, so I have a deal for you.

You send me 399.99 plus 6%sales tax and I will send you 1 five hundred sheet spril bound notebook for you to write down the events in and as a bonus 100 No 2 pencils!!!! And I will even include free shipping!!!! Great deal right!!!! Shoot me and email and let me know where you want me to send your new iSpiril Notebook and iNo. 2 Pencil.


EDIT: BTW I ordered a 16GB Touch without knowing that I could or couldnt edit calender items and guess what!!! Since I paid 399 for an ipod and not a fancy calender, I am going to let my order be delivered. Then when the calender function is made to work like you want, either by hackers or to many people crying and complaining about it to Steve (like they did with the iphone) I am going to make fun of you hard cre becuase then you wont be able to order one forever!!! HAHA!!!

This is a pretty stupid argument. I was in the market for a PDA - one with a virtual keyboard instead of a stylus. The PDA that I'm after doesn't have to have a lot of bells and whistles, but something to replace having to use a piece of paper to jot down dates and contacts (your comment about solving my problem with a spiral bound notebook is equally irritating. As many people that use a PDA can tell you, an electronic data assistant can help immensely because it allows you to sync different parts of you life up easily and effectively). After the iPhone was released, I - like many others I'm sure - thought that this would make a great iPod. To have a music player that can double up as a device to help me be more organized is something I have been waiting for from Apple for a long time.

The iPod line has been able to store contacts and calendars for quite some time now. We have never been able to update the information on the go, but that was because it doesn't really make sense to type things out with a click wheel. What really irks me about the iPod Touch is that the technology is already there and the software is already written. In fact, Apple had to go out of their way to remove this.

Now the biggest question is why the iPod Touch exists at all if it is not supposed to be a PDA. It doesn't have enough storage to be a movie player (although it has the perfect screen for it). Heck, for a lot of people, including myself, it doesn't have enough space to hold a whole music library. I was willing to look past all of that because I convinced myself that this was the simple PDA I was looking for and I get a great iPod along with it. You would think that the most expensive iPod would be the one with the most features, but even the iPod Touch is left out in the cold there because it's the only iPod without Notes.

Something inside tells me that the only reason the iPod Touch exists is to encourage iPhone sales. It's an excuse to say, "For only $100 more you can have all this."

Where's the innovation in that? Where's the Thinking Different? I've been an Apple fan my whole life and I rarely find too much to complain about. But this news saddens me for a company that I love. I'm upset because I expect better of Apple.

P-Worm

awmazz
Sep 11, 2007, 12:17 AM
This is the sort of stuff that Sony, Microsoft, etc. have been notorious in doing. Now, Apple is doing it, and the you have the Apple worshipers defending silly and illogical reasons.

w00master

I've been guessing it was actually the other way around. Switchers or non-Mac iPod owners dismissing it as acceptable by having much lower historical expectations and saying 'get over it'.

I bet most of these people didn't even look at the specs before ordering. They hopped on the site as soon as it was available and ordered. But now its "Oh. Apple took away the one feature I bought their product for, now I am going to cancel my order!" Yeah ok. I am sure

Not this one. I want to use it as a Newton/PDA, so I specifically checked for myself first. There were in fact a few threads asking 'can I input iCal events? which I was going to answer with my newfound info, but others had already replied 'yes, it says so on Apple's website'. So other people wanted to be sure as well before buying.

But I'm buying it anyway. I'll just use a pen and piece of paper to jot down appointments while showing off my cool new iTouch to other envious potential Apple customers and simply ignore their silly "but why are you using a pen and paper, didn't you just show me it has iCal and touchscreen keyboard on it?" questions. ;)

CalBoy
Sep 11, 2007, 12:47 AM
Wow - ever taken a course in Logic? ... i seriously doubt it.

Calling out whinny childlike behavior = defending Apple?

Hmmmm .... hey, I call it like I see it.

His logic doesn't follow, but yours doesn't either. It is possible to be critical of a company and not be a "crybaby." Sure people still have the option of cancelling their orders, but that doesn't make it ok. If Apple was unsure or had doubts about the implementation of any features, those features should not have been advertised. It isn't too hard to do that is it?;)

Like I wrote above, there isn't anything overtly "wrong" about this move from a legal perspective, but from a market perspective, it could become dangerous. When too many things change, consumers become weary and don't want to buy; they like stability and predictability.

EricNau
Sep 11, 2007, 12:57 AM
What really irks me about the iPod Touch is that the technology is already there and the software is already written. In fact, Apple had to go out of their way to remove this.
Very true.

It's just like buying a car... They ask if you wish to pay for the security system already installed in your car, and if you do not, they go out of their way to remove it (or even worse, they don't remove the system, but just render it completely unusable).

Things like that drive me absolutely crazy.


It was bad enough (yet understandable) that Apple didn't include Mail with the iPod touch, but disabling the most useful feature in Calendar is just disgraceful. ...But at least we have YouTube. :rolleyes:

AppleMatt389
Sep 11, 2007, 01:37 AM
what apple should now do is make calculator just read only. "your computer magically knows what calculations youll be making that day, syncs these calculations and then has them ready for you next time you open up calc.app"

seriously..why would you also be able to add contacts. who uses this contacts feature? im sure more would use the ical feature.

arghhh apple makes me angry.

gavd
Sep 11, 2007, 01:47 AM
There isn't an unlimited right for Apple to change the details of their products. Granted, they have the legal right to change it before anyone has been charged for it, but the market isn't so forgiving. If people see that Apple keeps changing the specs or abilities of its hardware, people will stop buying products early on. They will wait until they know the full details of the product, and then buy. This will hurt the potential of other products Apple might want to release, because consumers will have less faith in that product delivering what Jobs promised. It's better in Apple's and consumers' interest if Apple keeps to its word.

I kind of agree with you about the market not being so forgiving, but I think the majority of the people who are going to pick up an iPod Touch aren't going to know whether you were ever going to be able to add calendar entries or not so I can't see it being too damaging.

AppleMatt389
Sep 11, 2007, 02:07 AM
i just called the Apple store Australia and i asked about the calendar app. she said you CAN add entries because it has the keyboard. i then told her that i heard the feature was disabled and she said she hadnt heard anything about it being disabled. i asked one more time just to be sure..and she said u can add entries. i think in Victoria, Australia a verbal agreement is a binding contract. cant wait to get my ipod touch and see if shes telling the truth. could be bad..for them at least.

bklam
Sep 11, 2007, 03:00 AM
i just called the Apple store Australia and i asked about the calendar app. she said you CAN add entries because it has the keyboard. i then told her that i heard the feature was disabled and she said she hadnt heard anything about it being disabled. i asked one more time just to be sure..and she said u can add entries. i think in Victoria, Australia a verbal agreement is a binding contract. cant wait to get my ipod touch and see if shes telling the truth. could be bad..for them at least.

I called twice and both times they confirmed with their specialists that they calender is read only.

AppleMatt389
Sep 11, 2007, 03:04 AM
I called twice and both times they confirmed with their specialists that they calender is read only.

stupid australian apple store. no idea.

but my feeling is..something about ical is glitchy on the ipod touch so theyre covering all bases by saying its read only. when its fixed..they will say that its a feature. why else would u be able to edit contacts? its just so counter-intuitive to have a read only calendar.

billabong
Sep 11, 2007, 03:15 AM
We should all bombard them with complaints, either via phone or the ipod report form on apple.com

If we make them realize, that people want this on there iPod Touch they may bring it back...

awmazz
Sep 11, 2007, 04:15 AM
That confirmation from the tech guys raises the question then that if they're purposefully crippling the iTouch's software from the outset to segregate it from the iPhone, will they continue to do so into the future so any software update from Apple will re-cripple any third party hacks every time? If so, 'pain-in-the-arse' is not exactly a positive selling feature for me.

I'm still expecting it to be exactly what Steve Jobs said it was when he launched it - an iPhone without the phone - not just an iPod with a pretty interface.

Matteh117
Sep 11, 2007, 04:31 AM
If he gave all the iPhone customers $100 because some complained, then surely he'd give write access to the cal after some complaints... right?

Mars
Sep 11, 2007, 04:32 AM
Fair do's. But there is clearly a line drawn between the touch and the phone, touch is an ipod through and through, im not sure why people suddenly expected it to inherit PDA functionality.

PDA functionality is somewhat required in a smartphone, so the iphone has it, the touch is clearly just an ipod and does not.

People expect it because Apple told them so. Why don't you get it?
People also expect it to have the same capabilities, as it is just the same as an iPhone, except the phone part of course. The iPod Touch would be perfect for a lot of people, but now it isn't, as Apple has chosen to cripple it to be a iPod Classic with Safari...basically. :confused:

georeghudson
Sep 11, 2007, 04:37 AM
That was the last straw, I ordered one within seconds of it being released. Apple would of made a killing on this product internationally (where there is no iPhone). A 16GB iPod is not worth 269, no matter how good it looks. I thought that functionality was the key with the iPod touch.

And to think I was about to sell my 80GB 5.5gen iPod on Ebay!

Looks like I am going to go back and join the Q for a UK iPhone.

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 05:33 AM
I was going to get down to the Manchester Apple Store on launch day but I'm defintely waiting a few weeks first.

Lack of bluetooth now this. Apple sure know how to take the shine off their products.

AppleMatt389
Sep 11, 2007, 05:34 AM
I was going to get down to the Manchester Apple Store on launch day but I'm defintely waiting a few weeks first.

Lack of bluetooth now this. Apple sure know how to take the shine off their products.

besides wireless headphones..what would have been so great about bluetooth?

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 05:38 AM
besides wireless headphones..what would have been so great about bluetooth?

Tethering to a decent 3.5G phone like a Nokia N95. Best of all worlds then.

Also control of bluetooth devices liek my laptop via software such as Romio or Salling Clicker.

zap2
Sep 11, 2007, 05:41 AM
bummer...had that been there, a mail app and notes app we'd be looking at a Newton replacement....and the first Pocket PC/Palm Pilot to sell well for quite a while!

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 05:43 AM
bummer...had that been there, a mail app and notes app we'd be looking at a Newton replacement....and the first Pocket PC/Palm Pilot to sell well for quite a while!

I'm waiting until the release before I give up on it. I mean despite Apple being able to disappoint they also surprise (599-399 price drop anyone? I see that as a positive).

koobcamuk
Sep 11, 2007, 05:46 AM
you ever been to PC World ?

:mad:

I just gave my iPod 3rd gen the equivalent of using a defibrillator by connecting with firewire. It's been dead in my desk for nearly 2 years now.

Battery sucks, but it's working just fine! :cool:

That was probably just a marketing mix-up, if there anything like our guys there easily confused :rolleyes:

Don't expect anything over iPod features.. as it is just that.. an iPod.

:confused:

wifi?

text input?

Safari?

Touch screen?

Marketing mix ups like this can mean that they've broken the law (definitely in UK). Oops.

owen-b
Sep 11, 2007, 06:29 AM
And your picture was mature? RIIIGHT.

w00master

His picture was funny. Get over it!

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 06:30 AM
His picture was funny. Get over it!

He's some kid who's wanting to wind people up. It worked. He can be ignored.

owen-b
Sep 11, 2007, 06:30 AM
If he gave all the iPhone customers $100 because some complained, then surely he'd give write access to the cal after some complaints... right?

No. Because if he did, he sets a dangerous precedent - "Don't like something we've done? Bombard us with emails and we'll give you free stuff!"

No, I don't think so.

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 06:33 AM
No. Because if he did, he sets a dangerous precedent - "Don't like something we've done? Bombard us with emails and we'll give you free stuff!"

No, I don't think so.

I agree. It's not a monetary issue this though. Simply providing a full ical app on the Touch will show they're responsive to their customers.

GravityEyes
Sep 11, 2007, 07:51 AM
He's some kid who's wanting to wind people up. It worked. He can be ignored.

Yep, a 33 yr. old professional media designer, Apple user for 15 yrs. - kid.
:p

Agree, it is fun to wind up little kiddies that don't get their way. Their reactions remind me of my 6 yr old when he is denied extra candy after dinner.



Wahhhhhhh !

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 07:56 AM
Yep, a 33 yr. old professional media designer, Apple user for 15 yrs. - kid.
:p

Agree, it is fun to wind up little kiddies that don't get their way. Their reactions remind me of my 6 yr old when he is denied extra candy after dinner.

Well honesty is to be applauded. I'm still older than you though so I can pull the seniority card :)

Joedy
Sep 11, 2007, 07:59 AM
I just looked at my 5.5G iPod and it does not have the ability to add a Contact.

I don't see how this is a make or break feature for the iPod Touch.

If retaining a contact source is that critically necessary, one could just email themselves the information and enter the Contact data later when they get back home.

-joedy

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 08:06 AM
I just looked at my 5.5G iPod and it does not have the ability to add a Contact.

I don't see how this is a make or break feature for the iPod Touch.

If retaining a contact source is that critically necessary, one could just email themselves the information and enter the Contact data later when they get back home.


You can enter contacts. The Apple site still says so.

If you don't see the potential of the Touch, that's fine - don't buy it.

Stella
Sep 11, 2007, 08:12 AM
Well, as you've seen by the posts on this forum, the lack of calendar entries obviously does amount to a break of a sale.

For some people its the last straw - no email, no widgets and now no editable calendar. However, for some strange reason, you can still enter contacts?!!!! WTF?



I just looked at my 5.5G iPod and it does not have the ability to add a Contact.

I don't see how this is a make or break feature for the iPod Touch.




No offence, its really annoying when some one comes out with something like 'if you don't like it, don't buy it'.. well, obviously, they won't buy it!!! :-) ( but they can still point out its weaknesses) Apple were so close to having a great product - the iPod Touch.. its soo frustrating!


If you don't see the potential of the Touch, that's fine - don't buy it.

macnews
Sep 11, 2007, 08:15 AM
Not being able to enter calendar events is a deal breaker for me as well. Sure, it is an "ipod" - so to speak - but it is also MORE than just an ipod. I have always wanted to add events on the ipod just wouldn't be easy to do with a click wheel (if that function was even possible).

With an on screen keyboard, this is now much simpler and I don't understand why cripple the device other than to save iPhone sales. And there I think is the rub.

wordmunger
Sep 11, 2007, 08:16 AM
I was thinking about getting an iPod touch because of the calendar functionality, but I definitely won't be doing it now. My wife just got a nano (with the free rebate offer) and a palm zire and was thinking about replacing them with a touch. She won't be doing that now. And neither of us was *ever* in the market for an iPhone, so we won't be buying iPhones instead.

I won't whine about it, but I do think it's a boneheaded move on Apple's part.

shoelessone
Sep 11, 2007, 08:34 AM
I'm still purchasing a Touch when it comes out, but it is too bad that adding dates to the cal is not possible. Same with Mail.

I emailed Steve Jobs just to throw my hat in the ring of people who would like Mail/editable Cal.

I'm not complaining, and I understand the move, but I'm still hoping that if enough people bring up the issue that they'll surprise us and add the funcitonality.

Net-Monkey
Sep 11, 2007, 08:47 AM
That's not a good news for me coz I just sold my 8GB ipod nano and the PDA phone I was using and bought myself a new basic phone, and looking forward to my new ipod comes with ical.
i think i should not trust the apple's site next time coz it lies.:mad:

The Stig
Sep 11, 2007, 08:57 AM
I'm not going to waste my time or money buying an iPod touch. I'll wait for an iPhone in Canada... PLEASE STEVE SEND US THE IPHONE!!

The Stig

awmazz
Sep 11, 2007, 09:40 AM
My Newton 2100* from 1997 has a calendar app and a full virtual touch-keyboard. The little month in the top corner shows today's date, Sept 12, 2007.

http://users.tpg.com.au/adslmqen/newton01.jpg

Unlike the iTouch, the keyboard has the numeric line across the top and can be moved around the screen. Or I can write on the screen with the character recognition.

This is decade-old technology. From Apple. November actually will be it's 10th Anniversary. And they can't get the keyboard to work with iCal on the iPod Touch in 2007?

PS. Excuse the two greasy fingerprints on the top. I was eating a packet of crisps when I decided to take this pic 5 minutes ago.


*It's the factory upgrade 2000 to 2100 model, so has 2000 on it but 2100 innards, but means it still has the original embossed Apple logo. The actual 2100 has a printed/stick-on logo.

wongulous
Sep 11, 2007, 09:48 AM
God DAMN IT.

If the iPod touch is ACTUALLY CRIPPLED... I'm just going to get a Treo. Maybe I'll even go Windows Mobile. I am so pissed!!!!!! I can't get AT&T here but I want an iPod + most of a PDA + Safari!!!!

Demon
Sep 11, 2007, 09:56 AM
that would be sad. I was hoping to use it like a PDA, and have some additional software installed. If they won't allow new entries for iCal, would they let us enter new contacts at least??

GameMusicMaker
Sep 11, 2007, 10:03 AM
Ok, I completely agree that it wasn't right to remove that capability before it was even shipped (if it wasn't just correcting a mistake), but I think some people need to just relax a bit, all the iPhone's apps will be ported right to the iPod Touch soon after its release. You'll be able to do so much on the iPod in due time.

timothyjay2004
Sep 11, 2007, 10:16 AM
I have 2 touch's on order with Apple. I called them yesterday and specifically asked if this feature was taken out of the iPod Touch and the operator put me on hold to check and she said that there is no internal documents relating to it and that it is probably a rumor. I'm a huge Apple fan to no end and if I find out that they lied to me plus changed it after I ordered it, I will be on the phone to send it back. I don't need it now, but what if I do? And it's not what I paid for. The only way I'd keep it would be if they gave me the warranty for free, free accessories (dock etc.) or a price reduction, because I bought the iPod as soon as the Keynote was over, which at that time, it still had that ability.

shoelessone
Sep 11, 2007, 10:22 AM
Yep.

I'd bet within the week you'll be able to install chat clients, games, etc. Not to mention Mail, Cal, etc.

Markleshark
Sep 11, 2007, 10:26 AM
Not really the point, I will, but I shouldn't have to hack it.

shoelessone
Sep 11, 2007, 10:27 AM
I have 2 touch's on order with Apple. I called them yesterday and specifically asked if this feature was taken out of the iPod Touch and the operator put me on hold to check and she said that there is no internal documents relating to it and that it is probably a rumor. I'm a huge Apple fan to no end and if I find out that they lied to me plus changed it after I ordered it, I will be on the phone to send it back. I don't need it now, but what if I do? And it's not what I paid for. The only way I'd keep it would be if they gave me the warranty for free, free accessories (dock etc.) or a price reduction, because I bought the iPod as soon as the Keynote was over, which at that time, it still had that ability.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I encourage you too email steve (of course I'm assuming Steve doesn't actually get the emails himself) and let him know how you feel. I did, and if there is enough of an issue I could see Apple doing something about it.

P-Worm
Sep 11, 2007, 10:28 AM
I have no doubt that the iPod Touch will get hacked and everything we could ever want will be put on it. But you know what? I don't like hacks. I don't like the mess it can make when you want to update your software and jump through even more hoops. When I think about Apple, I think of a company that makes products that just work. Hacks shouldn't be a part of that philosophy.

P-Worm

shoelessone
Sep 11, 2007, 10:29 AM
Not really the point, I will, but I shouldn't have to hack it.

Oh I agree, but I look at this from 2 different points of view:

a) What SHOULD be the case and what I have the right to feel cheated about

and

b) What IS the case, and given the situation what I will base my purchase decision on.


So, a) we SHOULDN'T have to hack this, but b) it won't stop me from buying the Touch because in all reality I'll be able to get the functionality I want one way or another.

awmazz
Sep 11, 2007, 10:31 AM
Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/10/apple-confirms-ipod-touch-cannot-add-appointments/) gets confirmation from Apple that iCal is crippled.

"Like current iPods, the touch can only view calendar entries created on your computer".

So Steve Jobs lied when he said it's an iPhone without the phone. It really is just an iPod with a pretty interface + web browser (to buy iTunes). And only 16GB drive.

It can only ever be more than that by using hacks, so the matter is now whether Apple plan to keep re-crippling it via software updates to circumvent any hacks etc.

Edit: Unless of course you use all Google's apps via Safari instead. But may as well get one of the upcoming Google phones as it will have better integration. Why does Steve Jobs want us to use Google apps over Apple's own?

Metrics
Sep 11, 2007, 11:12 AM
Ok. I will be a good consumer and try to get familiar, that I can't create calendar entries on the fly but will have to sync calendar entries with my iPod Touch. Good enough for me.

But then, my next question is, how will I do that? What calendars are supported? How easy will that be?

BTW: I'm a windows user, so some of you may argue that "easy" is an :apple:'s attribute not Microsoft's. Point taken.

However, looking at the iTunes information it says for windows users there is only one option to sync calendar entries: MS Outloook (I was happy I could avoid this software monster in the past - outlook express is sufficient for me).

Does that now mean I have to install big? And even better, according to the sync instructions on the apple page ( http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302268 ) it says, that you have to allow Outlook to grant access by iTunes when you sync - every time?

Does that sound easy? No.
Is this elegant? No.
Will I like this? No.
Will I buy now a mac instead? I don't think so.

I only ask for one thing:
Please Steve, just give us that Calendar + sign back... ** sniff **

gloss
Sep 11, 2007, 11:23 AM
You can enter contacts. The Apple site still says so.


No, no it doesn't (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/10/apple-confirms-ipod-touch-cannot-add-appointments/).

edit: D'oh.

bklam
Sep 11, 2007, 11:25 AM
Ok, I completely agree that it wasn't right to remove that capability before it was even shipped (if it wasn't just correcting a mistake), but I think some people need to just relax a bit, all the iPhone's apps will be ported right to the iPod Touch soon after its release. You'll be able to do so much on the iPod in due time.

I totally agree with you. Plus the specialist/techs at apple said it's only software so it can be easily updated by updates in the future. From what he told me, he said that was not a smart move as he can see it would piss off a lot of people. Keep on writing to Steve and perhaps he'll release it after launch.

But i would guess most apps would be ported from the iphone to the ipod touch. (it should of been called itouch instead)

i0Nic
Sep 11, 2007, 11:33 AM
No, no it doesn't (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/10/apple-confirms-ipod-touch-cannot-add-appointments/).
"or adding new contacts"...

you can still add contacts it seems. meh.

paymaster
Sep 11, 2007, 11:40 AM
I totally agree with you. Plus the specialist/techs at apple said it's only software so it can be easily updated by updates in the future. From what he told me, he said that was not a smart move as he can see it would piss off a lot of people. Keep on writing to Steve and perhaps he'll release it after launch.

But i would guess most apps would be ported from the iphone to the ipod touch. (it should of been called itouch instead)

Why would you think that? They took the time and trouble to take it off from the iPhone software instead of just moving it over, why would they just put it right back on? The only way that makes sense is if there are enough differences inside that they had to re-write the software instead of moving it over and they are still working on it.

By the way, how many posts until I am not a newbie anymore?

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 11:52 AM
No, no it doesn't (http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/10/apple-confirms-ipod-touch-cannot-add-appointments/).

Yes it does.

End of first paragraph here (http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/features.html?feature=multitouch).

Contacts. Read what I said.

gloss
Sep 11, 2007, 11:58 AM
Yes it does.

End of first paragraph here (http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/features.html?feature=multitouch).

Contacts. Read what I said.

Yeah, apologies. That wouldn't be the first time I misread that - when I first reported the news I said 'Contacts' too.

My bad. :o

emotion
Sep 11, 2007, 12:06 PM
Yeah, apologies. That wouldn't be the first time I misread that - when I first reported the news I said 'Contacts' too.

My bad. :o

No worries...snappy due to work overload...sorry.