iPod Touch Screen Quality Sucks vs. iPhone

[Rendition]

I got my 16GB iTouch yesterday and I’m not happy. I don’t know what PC Magazine is smoking (maybe they got a better version), but my iPod Touch screen quality is VERY inferior to my iPhone. The color quality and punch isn’t there.

If you know about LCD monitors, it’s almost like they used a TN-quality panel vs. S-IPS on the iPhone. The colors almost have a dither quality, the black levels are not as good, and the viewing angles are much smaller/worse. Sigh! I may return it.

I remember when I first saw a movie on iPHone, I was speech less.. It was so awesome, breath-taking. The same movie on iPod Touch. Ugly, disappointing.

Here's my unboxing pictures: http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001894.html

[Evangelion]

It seems to me some of the touch's have screen-issues but not all of them.

[carman63]

I expected to see a stand (vs dock) in that picture.

I guess I'll head over to Micheal's craft store and buy a very small easel/stand thing.

Also, re: the display. We're not going to have the "5 vs 7 series" display discussions on the Touch TOO, are we? :rolleyes:

[Compile 'em all]

Return it and get another one. Let us know if the new one has the same issues.

[IUBall22]

I got my 16GB iTouch yesterday and I’m not happy. I don’t know what PC Magazine is smoking (maybe they got a better version), but my iPod Touch screen quality is VERY inferior to my iPhone. The color quality and punch isn’t there.

If you know about LCD monitors, it’s almost like they used a TN-quality panel vs. S-IPS on the iPhone. The colors almost have a dither quality, the black levels are not as good, and the viewing angles are much smaller/worse. Sigh! I may return it.

I remember when I first saw a movie on iPHone, I was speech less.. It was so awesome, breath-taking. The same movie on iPod Touch. Ugly, disappointing.

Here's my unboxing pictures: http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001894.html

i think the touch's screen is better if anything. remember, make sure you look in settings and set the brightness the way you like it. i turned the brightness all the way up, which i think is better than how it is coming out of the box.

[clevin]

Return it and get another one. Let us know if the new one has the same issues.

exactly my suggestion

[Maxington]

Is the iPod Touch screen the same material as the iPhone?

[IUBall22]

guys im telling you, turn up the brightness in settings

Is the iPod Touch screen the same material as the iPhone?
yes

[lofight]

I got my 16GB iTouch yesterday and I’m not happy. I don’t know what PC Magazine is smoking (maybe they got a better version), but my iPod Touch screen quality is VERY inferior to my iPhone. The color quality and punch isn’t there.

If you know about LCD monitors, it’s almost like they used a TN-quality panel vs. S-IPS on the iPhone. The colors almost have a dither quality, the black levels are not as good, and the viewing angles are much smaller/worse. Sigh! I may return it.

I remember when I first saw a movie on iPHone, I was speech less.. It was so awesome, breath-taking. The same movie on iPod Touch. Ugly, disappointing.

Here's my unboxing pictures: http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001894.html
Wow nice keyboard, where did you get it?

[Rendition]

Wow nice keyboard, where did you get it?

It's the Mac Kensington Keyboard, I got it from Amazon for like $39 I think.

yes

The screen is DEFINITELY different than my iPhone. Quality and the feel when you press your finger against it. I think the screens are definitely made at different factories.

[Eidorian]

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/tested-iphone-screen-better-than-ipod-touch-screen-299774.php

[electricrenaiss]

The screen is DEFINITELY different than my iPhone. Quality and the feel when you press your finger against it. I think the screens are definitely made at different factories.

How's it different? In a good way or bad?

[apodacainc]

GASP!!! Kensington? How dare you connect that to a mac! That's like putting a pvc pipe on a Harley Davidson's exhaust. Ur mac prolly feels like it's got a thermometer in it's butthole. Take it out! The new slim line keyboard is phenom!

[gloss]

That Gizmodo article is a shame, if true.

[Rendition]

How's it different? In a good way or bad?

Well you already read my screen issues. Tactile feel seems a bit more friction, but it isn't bad at all.

[electricrenaiss]

That Gizmodo article is a shame, if true.

Yea! I really hope this is an issue that's not too widespread. It's going to bring a lot of people down but I wonder how many people would actually realize that it's an issue or even care?

Another interesting article on the Touch:

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-ipod-touch/

[jmpage2]

Well, this is making it's way all over the Intertubes with example videos, etc. It looks pretty bad. Maybe someone watching 'Family Guy' clips won't care, but certainly those watching movies are going to be pissed if they get a screen with washed out blacks that don't look at all right.

Some people are claiming that they don't have the problem which could point to more than one source for the screens.

Apple better get a grip on this quick. Things like this have a way of snowballing on them.... remember the 1st Nano screens and how badly they scratched?

An even bigger issue for me is the reports of sub-par audio quality (background noise and hiss).

If I'm going to spend $400 on a DAP I expect top flight audio performance, not hissing like a tape deck.

[gloss]

from the iLounge article:

Screen Differences: Though it shares the same resolution and size, the screen isn’t exactly the same as iPhone’s. The screen’s contrast initially seems a bit better, with darker blacks, but it’s easier to make blacks go negative on the wrong viewing angle—more so than on recent hard disk-based iPods, too. Like iPhone, iPod touch still has a brightness sensor with automatic adjustment as an option; there still aren’t contrast or color controls.

Have you guys done off-axis vs. straight on image comparisons?

[electricrenaiss]

Well, this is making it's way all over the Intertubes with example videos, etc. It looks pretty bad. Maybe someone watching 'Family Guy' clips won't care, but certainly those watching movies are going to be pissed if they get a screen with washed out blacks that don't look at all right.

Some people are claiming that they don't have the problem which could point to more than one source for the screens.

Apple better get a grip on this quick. Things like this have a way of snowballing on them.... remember the 1st Nano screens and how badly they scratched?

An even bigger issue for me is the reports of sub-par audio quality (background noise and hiss).

If I'm going to spend $400 on a DAP I expect top flight audio performance, not hissing like a tape deck.

Also notice what they say about the battery life. It's not what Apple claimed at least on the video side. My biggest worry when I get my Touch is the display issue.

I don't understand the PC World review that said that the iPod Touch display is actually better than that of the iPhone becasue majority of the reports seem to indicate the opposite. Why the disconnect?

[jmpage2]

Also notice what they say about the battery life. It's not what Apple claimed at least on the video side. My biggest worry when I get my Touch is the display issue.

Ya, this has me pretty bummed out. I'm now of a mind to kill my Touch pre-order and wait till the next version of the device comes out in a year or so and they fix this crap.

:(

[shoelessone]

Well, I'll probably wait to pass judgement until I get to see one of these myself, but it never feels good to get your hopes smashed by reports like these :(

If need be, I'll purchase/return the things until I get a high quality display, if that's what it takes.

[madmaxmedia]

I don't understand the PC World review that said that the iPod Touch display is actually better than that of the iPhone becasue majority of the reports seem to indicate the opposite. Why the disconnect?

I think there is some variation in the screens. IIRC PC Mag also did say that the Touch looked better when viewed straight on, but at off-angles the iPhone was better.

[electricrenaiss]

I think there is some variation in the screens. IIRC PC Mag also did say that the Touch looked better when viewed straight on, but at off-angles the iPhone was better.

I guess it's pretty much official now that the iPhone and Touch display is NOT the same. Do you think the difference lies in the actual hardware or is this something that can be "corrected" with a software patch?

[madmaxmedia]

I guess it's pretty much official now that the iPhone and Touch display is NOT the same. Do you think the difference lies in the actual hardware or is this something that can be "corrected" with a software patch?

I don't think even Touch owners know right now. It makes me wonder if I should wait a few days before getting a Touch, I was gonna wait for it to get hacked first anyways.

Playing video is a major feature for me, so I want to make sure it's good. I was impressed with image quality on the iPhone, hopefully the Touch will ultimately be as good.

[electricrenaiss]

I don't think even Touch owners know right now. It makes me wonder if I should wait a few days before getting a Touch, I was gonna wait for it to get hacked first anyways.

Playing video is a major feature for me, so I want to make sure it's good. I was impressed with image quality on the iPhone, hopefully the Touch will ultimately be as good.

I agree and to my point earlier, how many Touch owners will even realize that it is an issue if it really is? They might think its just normal. Unless there are any videophiles who can notice this right away, most people will just ignore it.

[madmaxmedia]

I agree and to my point earlier, how many Touch owners will even realize that it is an issue if it really is? They might think its just normal. Unless there are any videophiles who can notice this right away, most people will just ignore it.

Yeah, I guess it depends on just how noticeable it actually is. I still haven't seen one with my own eyes yet. I do know the iPhone looks good to great to me, so hopefully the Touch will be similar (at least non-defective units or whatever, if there is a defect.)

[jmpage2]

Well, against my better judgement I just picked one up from the Aspen Grove store in CO.

Will post my thoughts (and possibly some photos of the issue) in a bit.

[dog352]

I just got my Ipod Touch today. The screen is a huge disappointment. Perhaps it wouldn't be bad if I never looked at the Iphone Screen. But the contrast is just way too up or something and everything appears darker than it should be. I think I may return this and go for the Archos 605

[electricrenaiss]

I just got my Ipod Touch today. The screen is a huge disappointment. Perhaps it wouldn't be bad if I never looked at the Iphone Screen. But the contrast is just way too up or something and everything appears darker than it should be. I think I may return this and go for the Archos 605
This is really bumming me out!

[Compile 'em all]

I just got my Ipod Touch today. The screen is a huge disappointment. Perhaps it wouldn't be bad if I never looked at the Iphone Screen. But the contrast is just way too up or something and everything appears darker than it should be. I think I may return this and go for the Archos 605

How did you compare it to the iPhone? Do you own one or you did that in-store?

[Scarpad]

We were all sold on the touch by looking at the Iphone's screen. I went to the Apple Store and was wowed by the quality of the screen, we all assumed it would be the same screen and apparently it isn't, I'm wondering if I should cancel my order and go back to the store and check out an actual Touch screen.

[electricrenaiss]

We were all sold on the touch by looking at the Iphone's screen. I went to the Apple Store and was wowed by the quality of the screen, we all assumed it would be the same screen and apparently it isn't, I'm wondering if I should cancel my order and go back to the store and check out an actual Touch screen.

I already placed an order a few days ago but I agree with you. I think I might head over to the Apple store and check out the display as well and if these reports are true, I'll cancel my order. To me, the biggest reason I bought this is for video.

All the Touch owners on this forum, please post your opinion on how you feel about the display. I think it will help out a lot of people here. Thanks

[RCGMac]

I will reply once I get home from work, damn running out for an early lunch to pick one up, now I have to wait to play :-(

[TheSpaz]

Is it at least as good as the 5G iPod (video) screen as far as contrast and color or is it way worse than even that.

[madmaxmedia]

iLounge says that the screen looks as good or slightly better when viewed straight-on (similar to the PC Mag review). But at off angles, the blacks go negative faster.

Maybe someone with a Touch can comment on this? Does it look okay when you are viewing the screen straight on?

[shoelessone]

I am setting up a media wiki for the iPod Touch, so hopefully we will have some place to centralize reports, etc.

[KnucklesMahone]

Well after comparing the touch to the iphone today, i have to say that looking at it straight the touch is better, but at a angle it's the iphone. My friends iphone and my touch. I was gonna get the iphone, but i have a passionate hatred of AT&T and since i'm gonna hack the touch anyway, it was just a better purchase.

[electricrenaiss]

Looks like this is a widespread problem. Check out this ilounge discussion:

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=205237

[madmaxmedia]

Well after comparing the touch to the iphone today, i have to say that looking at it straight the touch is better, but at a angle it's the iphone. My friends iphone and my touch. I was gonna get the iphone, but i have a passionate hatred of AT&T and since i'm gonna hack the touch anyway, it was just a better purchase.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, that's exactly what iLounge said. I wonder if this is why we are getting varied reports from people.

Is the viewing angle extremely tight, or is it just something you have to look at more or less head on? It doesn't sound like something that would bother me horribly.

[KnucklesMahone]

Thanks for the detailed feedback, that's exactly what iLounge said. I wonder if this is why we are getting varied reports from people.

Is the viewing angle extremely tight, or is it just something you have to look at more or less head on? It doesn't sound like something that would bother me horribly.

It's really not bad. To notice it, you have to know what your looking at. Unless your a real videophile, this is a minor issue.

[sam10685]

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/tested-iphone-screen-better-than-ipod-touch-screen-299774.php

They look the same to me.

[Eidorian]

They look the same to me.I can see a major difference on the gradient image.

[K Wal]

My 2 cents I've not seen a problem with mine's sceen, now I don't have an iPhone to judge it by. but it doesn't seem like a major problem to me

[TheSpaz]

It's really not bad. To notice it, you have to know what your looking at. Unless your a real videophile, this is a minor issue.

My iPod 5G does this at certain angles... I don't mind it at all since I don't usually watch things at an angle. How much of an angle does there have to be in order to make it go "negative"?

[teerexx52]

My 2 cents I've not seen a problem with mine's sceen, now I don't have an iPhone to judge it by. but it doesn't seem like a major problem to me

I played identical videos on my iphone and my touch. My wife and I stared and stared and we can't see any difference at all in the two. Will try more later.

[sblasl]

The iLounge video comparing iPhone to the iPod Touch running Safari, and my own comparison shows that the iPhone is faster than the iPod Touch.

I wonder why?

[gloss]

The iLounge video comparing iPhone to the iPod Touch running Safari, and my own comparison shows that the iPhone is faster than the iPod Touch.

I wonder why?

I did notice that the Touch felt slightly slow compared to what I remembered of my friend's iPhone.

[OrangeCuse44]

who's watching video on an angle with a touch anyway? if youre holding it, im sure no ones gunna think, "gee i could watch this straight on, but just for fun ill turn it so im watching on an angle to impair the black colors of my cinematic experience."

[s57]

I did notice that the Touch felt slightly slow compared to what I remembered of my friend's iPhone.

The iPhone was $300 more (for the same amount of memory) before they lowered the price point. They were probably making a good margin on that, but now they probably rely mostly on the revenue sharing with AT&T to make money with the iPhone. Since the iPod is still $100 cheaper, and they don't get any revenue sharing, I can't imagine that they use identical hardware in both (minus the BT, cell phone, and camera, which I doubt would run them $300) otherwise they'd losing money on the Touch.

Ergo: The Touch probably uses inferior hardware, which might explain why it's slower and why the screen might not be as nice (or it's just buggy software, of course...)

[gkarris]

Everyone hold their horses...

I looked at the Touch at the store and compared to my iPhone it looks fine...

Come on, it's just an iPod for $299.

It's not a home theater, it's a MOBILE device!

(sarcasm) My new $299 iPhone has only 4Gigs, and I can't store the entire 10 seasons of Stargate SG-1 on it, I'm taking it back!!!

Go with the Zune, then...

[frostrambler]

Looks like this is a widespread problem. Check out this ilounge discussion:

http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=205237

Yeah thats my thread from ipodlounge.

Also check out this thread:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1131324

[parrotheadmjb]

The iPhone was $300 more (for the same amount of memory) before they lowered the price point. They were probably making a good margin on that, but now they probably rely mostly on the revenue sharing with AT&T to make money with the iPhone. Since the iPod is still $100 cheaper, and they don't get any revenue sharing, I can't imagine that they use identical hardware in both (minus the BT, cell phone, and camera, which I doubt would run them $300) otherwise they'd losing money on the Touch.

Ergo: The Touch probably uses inferior hardware, which might explain why it's slower and why the screen might not be as nice (or it's just buggy software, of course...)

apple is not a company that thinks, yes, lets make our best mp3 player yet out of ******* hardware to save $5. come on, iPods only make up 50% of our total revenue

[dan-o-mac]

who's watching video on an angle with a touch anyway? if youre holding it, im sure no ones gunna think, "gee i could watch this straight on, but just for fun ill turn it so im watching on an angle to impair the black colors of my cinematic experience."

OK so what about when people say they are experiencing this. Taken from Apple support fourm.

My iPod Touch seems to display all black scenes and movies and pictures with an almost negative black effect, so it looks like I am staring at the LCD from a bad angle, when in fact I am staring at it dead on.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1131324

[madmaxmedia]

OK so what about when people say they are experiencing this. Taken from Apple support fourm.

My iPod Touch seems to display all black scenes and movies and pictures with an almost negative black effect, so it looks like I am staring at the LCD from a bad angle, when in fact I am staring at it dead on.

It seems like some (hopefully most) iPods are absolutely fine when viewed straight on. But some obviously have problematic screens.

At this point, I would guess this is a QC issue, not an inherent problem with the Touch. So hopefully it was a bad batch (made Friday afternoon, the factory workers were all drunk or something.)

[dan-o-mac]

It seems like some (hopefully most) iPods are absolutely fine when viewed straight on. But some obviously have problematic screens.

At this point, I would guess this is a QC issue, not an inherent problem with the Touch. So hopefully it was a bad batch (made Friday afternoon, the factory workers were all drunk or something.)

lol @ drunk factory workers. I hope it's just a bad batch. I was going to pick one up this week, but I think I'll wait till the dust settles.

[frostrambler]

OK so what about when people say they are experiencing this. Taken from Apple support fourm.

My iPod Touch seems to display all black scenes and movies and pictures with an almost negative black effect, so it looks like I am staring at the LCD from a bad angle, when in fact I am staring at it dead on.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1131324


Thats my post you just quoted from there :D

[caMi]

Think this can be fixed with firmware?

[ellsworth]

forget about firmwires or firmwares... Just take it back ;) yes? Yes!

[sblasl]

Most likely they are using the parts that did not pass Quality Control on the iPhone production line.:eek:

[Rendition]

I tried to watch video on it again and it still was horrible. So I just returned it tonight after 1 day of ownership. Had to eat the 10% restocking fee $40. Ouch.

[Quickdood]

I tried to watch video on it again and it still was horrible. So I just returned it tonight after 1 day of ownership. Had to eat the 10% restocking fee $40. Ouch.

That is is messed up, and if the swear filter wasn't on I would use a stronger word, you shouldn't have to pay a restocking fee for their defective product! Pure BS!

[s57]

apple is not a company that thinks, yes, lets make our best mp3 player yet out of ******* hardware to save $5. come on, iPods only make up 50% of our total revenue

A) eating the profit margin on 50% of the revenue is out of the question, so clearly the Touch must be cheaper to produce than the iPhone, by quite a bit. I'm not talking about 5$ savings - the difference is probably more like $100 or more.

B) I am not saying sh**tty hardware (though some of the screens seem to be well described by that attribute), but just less high end.

C) The best mp3 player? I thought it was AAC, and the iPod classic is probably the best player at that.

[gloss]

That is is messed up, and if the swear filter wasn't on I would use a stronger word, you shouldn't have to pay a restocking fee for their defective product! Pure BS!

It's not defective, per se. They didn't advertise a specific range of viewing angles.

I definitely see the issue the OP is talking about, but viewing the iPod at a very slight tilt (as I generally do) seems to get rid of it. It just seems that the screen has a very narrow horizontal (or vertical, if you're watching video) viewing angle.

Definitely a shame, and probably a problem, but not one big enough for me to return the thing. A class action lawsuit'll pop up eventually, and I'll be in on that. :D

[RCGMac]

I am posting this from my new Touch. My screen looks fine so far I did increase the brightness and it looks great. Thus far no noticable hissing either. Wi-fi seems too work well too.

[matticus008]

It's not defective, per se. They didn't advertise a specific range of viewing angles.
It's not an issue of viewing angles so much as color shift.

The display is still viewable, just in false color. Viewing angles are essentially meaningless on modern LCDs--they're almost universally in excess of 170 degrees (180 degrees is not the maximum--it can never be achieved). A viewing angle is just the cone in which the image definition persists (not the colors).

Even if they had advertised specific viewing angles, it wouldn't have any consequence with regard to the appearance of blacks and other dark colors.

[caMi]

It's not an issue of viewing angles so much as color shift.

The display is still viewable, just in false color. Viewing angles are essentially meaningless on modern LCDs--they're almost universally in excess of 170 degrees (180 degrees is not the maximum--it can never be achieved). A viewing angle is just the cone in which the image definition persists (not the colors).

Even if they had advertised specific viewing angles, it wouldn't have any consequence with regard to the appearance of blacks and other dark colors.

That is why I almost think this could be fixed with a firmware update. Apple could adjust the settings and fix the display.

[gloss]

It's not an issue of viewing angles so much as color shift.

The display is still viewable, just in false color. Viewing angles are essentially meaningless on modern LCDs--they're almost universally in excess of 170 degrees (180 degrees is not the maximum--it can never be achieved). A viewing angle is just the cone in which the image definition persists (not the colors).

Even if they had advertised specific viewing angles, it wouldn't have any consequence with regard to the appearance of blacks and other dark colors.

I tend to agree, I'm just saying that it may not technically qualify as 'defective' because I don't know that they declared that it should behave otherwise.

It is, however, annoying, and if they cobble together a replacement program I'll be first in line.

edit: I finally ran across a really dark scene to test it with, and it is quite bad. At the viewing angle that's normally perfect, I get a very noticable negative effect, which gets worse as I tilt the Touch toward me and begins to subside as I tilt it away from me, although then the color gets all wonky.

Very disappointing. If I wasn't going to be gone the rest of the weekend I'd take it back and complain.

[webtoker]

I purchased an iPhone and returned it a week later due to issues I had with the lack push mail support and no LED notifications. I was however very impressed with the screen on the iPhone. It produced blacks like a plamsa and the clarity was awesome. I can not say the same for my iPod Touch. It is nice, but it seems like the screen is the quality of a ****** LCD. Considering it is an iPod and how small it is, I got over it really quick :-)


Cal

[matticus008]

I tend to agree, I'm just saying that it may not technically qualify as 'defective' because I don't know that they declared that it should behave otherwise.
Oh, I agree with your assessment. I was simply clarifying the issue on the off chance that someone uncovered some viewing angle specification and dragged it into this thread to rebut your claim.

[gkarris]

I was at the Apple Store and the Touches there looked great. They had a music video with dark scenes that looked just fine.

Sound like a large batch of bad screens...

Too many product refreshes at the same time!

[aidanpendragon]

I tend to agree, I'm just saying that it may not technically qualify as 'defective' because I don't know that they declared that it should behave otherwise.

It is, however, annoying, and if they cobble together a replacement program I'll be first in line.

edit: I finally ran across a really dark scene to test it with, and it is quite bad. At the viewing angle that's normally perfect, I get a very noticable negative effect, which gets worse as I tilt the Touch toward me and begins to subside as I tilt it away from me, although then the color gets all wonky.

Very disappointing. If I wasn't going to be gone the rest of the weekend I'd take it back and complain.

Yeah, reading the Apple forums, it definitely sounds like a bad batch - some folks report their screens are fine and iPhone-quality. Others say Geniuses clearly see the problem and replace it. Nobody should have to live with this, or pay a restocking fee.

[parrotheadmjb]

A) eating the profit margin on 50% of the revenue is out of the question, so clearly the Touch must be cheaper to produce than the iPhone, by quite a bit. I'm not talking about 5$ savings - the difference is probably more like $100 or more.

B) I am not saying sh**tty hardware (though some of the screens seem to be well described by that attribute), but just less high end.

C) The best mp3 player? I thought it was AAC, and the iPod classic is probably the best player at that.

Yes AAC player is a widely used term these days, SIKE,(the iPod, im not sure if you are familiar with it, but it plays BOTH AAC and MP3 along with a variety of other formats) but as for the 50% profit, yes they could still keep the same hardware as the iPhone (except for the phone) and make a 40%-50% profit like their other products. And I am pretty sure that the screen on the iPod touch is NOT a $100 cheaper than the one on the iPhone.

[TheSpaz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rf8jQIbVQ&mode=related&search=

I watched this whole thing and all the colors seem to look great. The blacks look like the darkest blacks you can get so maybe it is a bad batch. I hope I get a good one!

[aswitcher]

I hope this is a bad batch. The screen seems to be the same but no tear downs have determined this one way or the other...

[Skull21]

To people who have video problems, do you have the 8gb or 16gb ipod touch?

[onionperson654]

While there seems to be a majority of iPod touch buyers experiencing the "problem," some people appear to have escaped (maybe they just escaped from reality?). One poster on Apple's website http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=5350828#5350828 exchanged his and got a noticably better model in return.

If this is the case, it may be the most high profile of the issues with Chinese Quality Control that are going through the news, and hopefully Apple will fix it. In the mean time, I would suggest:

1.) DON'T GET IN ENGRAVED. Sorry for the caps (I'm not an all caps poster), but I feel like the new iPod touch models are not ones that you want to forfeit your ability to return.

2.) Keep in mind the return policy of wherever you buy it. If I am correct, Apple requires a restocking fee, Best Buy is 30 days returning, Costco is 90, etc.

3.) Someone (perhaps with an iphone and bad ipod touch) should determine a reliable test method. This could include a.) software b.) A website with certain colors or c.) A downloaded picture. This would let people test their ipods to see if they were worth keeping or returning. While there obviously is a problem, for those without iphones it may be hard to tell if one is imagining the problem or over/underemphasizing it. I, for one, will probably be both so impressed at its other features and understanding that many screens have issues with dark and angles that I won't be able to make a completly accurate judgment, especially if there is a range of quality and not just good/bad.

[s57]

Yes AAC player is a widely used term these days, SIKE,(the iPod, im not sure if you are familiar with it, but it plays BOTH AAC and MP3 along with a variety of other formats) but as for the 50% profit, yes they could still keep the same hardware as the iPhone (except for the phone) and make a 40%-50% profit like their other products. And I am pretty sure that the screen on the iPod touch is NOT a $100 cheaper than the one on the iPhone.

I have an iPod, and, yes, I am aware that it plays mp3s - whatever.

I am also not saying that the screen is $100 less - that would be the sum of all parts, which should make a difference (i.e., probably generallly slower processing, since it doesn't have to handle as many things as once as an iPhone).

What I am saying is that, unless they had an insanely large profit margin on the original iPhones, either they're not makin' much money on the Touch or it's a lot cheaper to produce than the iPhone, for which they're getting a revenue stream from AT&T, which they're not getting for the Touch.

[madmaxmedia]

Okay, I played around with a Touch and an iPod at an Apple store (they were sold out so I couldn't buy.)

I think I noticed a difference between the 2. The Touch seemed okay, but I could notice the problem with the blacks if viewing angle wasn't right. On the iPhone, I didn't have the problem at all.

However, the lighting in the Apple Store makes it hard to evaluate because of the glare and reflections. If I was at home watching in low lighting at night, I'm actually not sure if the problem would be less noticeable or more. It may be that at the right angle, the picture looks perfect. But I was trying to adjust the screen so there wouldn't be too many reflections, and it was hard to tell.

I'll still probably buy one, and as long as it's reasonable I'm not going to obsess over it, it's not a life-changing thing. And if it really bad, I figure I'll be able to exchange it at the store in a couple of weeks, when the smoke has cleared on this. We may not be able to return it for free, but we'll have a 1-year warranty.

I thought briefly about the Classic or even an iPhone, but I really like the bigger screen for movies, and don't want to pay for iPhone service plan. So I'm not really going to be happy with another model, and I already sold my old iPod in advance of this. So I hope all's well will end well with this issue. Everything else about the Touch was great- I love the thin body, and the black metal edge is very nice IMO. If only they had just used the same exact screen (or had no problems with bad batches or whatever), it would be perfect for my needs.

[onionperson654]

I'll still probably buy one, and as long as it's reasonable I'm not going to obsess over it, it's not a life-changing thing. And if it really bad, I figure I'll be able to exchange it at the store in a couple of weeks, when the smoke has cleared on this. We may not be able to return it for free, but we'll have a 1-year warranty.


Probably the best piece of wisdom I've heard about this issue. I figure I'm in a similar boat, and all technical notes aside, there's alot to be said for madmaxmedia's approach.

[madmaxmedia]

Yeah, at one point after reading all these threads, I figured if the screen is a little bit less than optimal, who cares? It's still preferable than a 5.5 or 6G for me. And if it's really bad, then it will get taken care of.

I did just check the Apple support board, one of the more active posters who had posted pics of his crappy screen got a replacement that was much better (he was happy with it, end of story.)

Everything else about the unit is just really nice. I mean I was on the fence about the HD/flash thing, but 16GB seems like a lot of space when you see just how thin these units really are. I more or less give Apple the benefit of the doubt on that one.

[gloss]

To people who have video problems, do you have the 8gb or 16gb ipod touch?

16GB here.

[Quickdood]

Yeah, at one point after reading all these threads, I figured if the screen is a little bit less than optimal, who cares? It's still preferable than a 5.5 or 6G for me. And if it's really bad, then it will get taken care of.

I did just check the Apple support board, one of the more active posters who had posted pics of his crappy screen got a replacement that was much better (he was happy with it, end of story.)

Everything else about the unit is just really nice. I mean I was on the fence about the HD/flash thing, but 16GB seems like a lot of space when you see just how thin these units really are. I more or less give Apple the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Everyone just buy the Touches with the display defect! Some one needs to get them off the shelves so I can get in on a new shipment without the defect :)

[bluush]

Everyone just buy the Touches with the display defect! Some one needs to get them off the shelves so I can get in on a new shipment without the defect :)

If the Touch is defective, then the Macbook is very defective. I own both and can attest to that. My opinion is that what is happening right now is what happens anytime a new Apple produce is released: someone finds something that isn't 100% perfect and blows it into a huge thing that eventually blows over in a couple weeks. The video on the Touch is better than the video on a Macbook. Now I may have gotten a Touch that wasn't part of a supposed "bad batch", so I can only attest to mine - but I paid 399 dollars today on my lunchbreak for a 16gb touch and it's now 4:54 am (Pacific Time) and I'm still up enjoying the crap out of this amazing thing. For the year 2007 (and probably 2008), the iPod Touch is as good as technology gets, in my honest opinion.

[caMi]

For the year 2007 (and probably 2008), the iPod Touch is as good as technology gets, in my honest opinion.

+1

It is an absolute amazing piece of technology! And I can't believe I only paid $300 for it.

[tjm337]

Hey all,

I had a similar problem with the black colors. I went to restore the ipod touch to return it to Best Buy and the blacks looked better. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part. Anyone have any thoughts???

Cheers
T

[awmazz]

Hey all,

I had a similar problem with the black colors. I went to restore the ipod touch to return it to Best Buy and the blacks looked better. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part. Anyone have any thoughts???

Cheers
T

Interesting to see if just a restore will solve the video issue.

[TheSpaz]

I wonder if the iPods were in cold weather recently. I know the cold can severely affect screen performance. So maybe you need to let your iPod warm up? I dunno, I'm just thinking here. From the looks of the few videos on the net, the blacks look perfectly black to me. Does anyone have an iPod Touch and an iPod 5G to compare them both? I am happy with my 5G screen so if the iPod touch's screen is better than that, I will be happy.

Another question, do you HAVE to view it at an angle for the colors to be correct? Or is it the angles that make the colors look strange?

[TheSpaz]

I don't know if it's just the camera but, this video looks a lot worse in terms of color of the screen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLNqdwll1uo&NR=1

[jmpage2]

Hey all,

I had a similar problem with the black colors. I went to restore the ipod touch to return it to Best Buy and the blacks looked better. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part. Anyone have any thoughts???

Cheers
T

Wishful thinking. This is a problem in the display itself, software has nothing to do with this.

[Evangelion]

the more i read these comments, the more it seems to me that there is a batch of bad touches out there. maybe we could start a database of manufacturing-dates and serial-numbers and try to find a connection there?

[davidjearly]

Wishful thinking. This is a problem in the display itself, software has nothing to do with this.

Says who? Whilst I doubt the software update has done anything to improve the issue in this case as it is the same version that ships on the iPod, it is VERY plausible that the display issue could be sorted in the future by a software update. We won't know until V1.1 of the iPod touch software though.

David

[iShak]

Says who? Whilst I doubt the software update has done anything to improve the issue in this case as it is the same version that ships on the iPod, it is VERY plausible that the display issue could be sorted in the future by a software update. We won't know until V1.1 of the iPod touch software though.

David

I doubt it, hue correction and saturation problems can be fixed via software update pretty easily but in this case I think cheaper LCD's have been used with bad contrast ratio and smaller viewing angles OR the factory got a bad batch of LCD's .. (really big bad batch apparently)

[davidjearly]

I doubt it, hue correction and saturation problems can be fixed via software update pretty easily but in this case I think cheaper LCD's have been used with bad contrast ratio and smaller viewing angles OR the factory got a bad batch of LCD's .. (really big bad batch apparently)

Yes, which was my original point. You and the other person 'think' that it is a hardware issue. It remains however to be entirely possible that it could be a software issue which could be updated in the future.

We won't know until more of these are sold in a month or so from different batches and are in more people's hands.

[iShak]

Yes, which was my original point. You and the other person 'think' that it is a hardware issue. It remains however to be entirely possible that it could be a software issue which could be updated in the future.

We won't know until more of these are sold in a month or so from different batches and are in more people's hands.

I think: cheaper LCD's have been used.
I am sure: its a hardware problem.

[milszils]

If you want to check it for black colours then just use the home screen - which is a default black screen. if it is not doing it there then it is more likely a software problem which i am sure will be corrected in a matter of time.

[cavemonkey50]

Alright, this is going to sound crazy, so I'm prepared to be called a crazy freak. I took my touch with me out driving, listening to music along the way. During this time my touch was in the cupholder exposed to direct sunlight (it's a bright day out). When I got home, my screen looked a million times better. The gradient test I've been using (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/colorbands.png) went from having about 8 bars inverted to now around 2. While the problem is still present, the screen has definitely improved.

I'm starting to believe that the screen needs to be broken in. Perhaps those of us with problems have touches which were just made days ago. Those with perfect screen or near perfect screen were manufactured a couple of weeks ago and have had time to sit.

It will be interesting seeing if my screen improves during the week. I have to wait until later in the week to exchange it anyway, since my Apple Store is an hour drive away. Maybe I'll be lucky and I won't have to make the trip again or Apple will push out an update or something.

[plasticmoz]

Picked mine up from Best Buy -- Screen is fine but get this -- hissing occurs only using my Shure 210s, no hissing with Apple headphones, Sennheiser 595s and an old pair of Sony cans.

Wierd as hell. Aside from a few stuck pixels no major issues so I am keeping this.

[matticus008]

Alright, this is going to sound crazy, so I'm prepared to be called a crazy freak. [...]
I'm starting to believe that the screen needs to be broken in.
Entirely possible. My iPhone did a flickering/rainbow bars thing when playing video for the first day or two. I considered scheduling a Genius bar appointment, but as soon as I did, the problem went away.

[madmaxmedia]

Okay, I got a 16GB Touch at a Best Buy store. Here are my impressions-

1. Audio quality is fine, I hear no hiss thru Vibe Moda Remix earbuds. I haven't done detailed listening or comparisons, but so far so good there.

2. I do have the negative blacks effect. If I view directly at the screen, I definitely see the effect and its annoying. If I tilt it a bit, it's not so bad. But then if you tilt too far, the overall screen colors start to fade.

This is very borderline for me. Not because its SOOOO bad, but because this thing cost $400 and I want the image quality to be very good. It's just annoying to experience, like you're always tilting the screen back and forth trying to get the perfect viewing angle...but it's never perfect.

Cavemonkey mentioned that break-in might help, I am going to just let this thing sit and play video for awhile, then come back.

If it does not improve, I don't know. I was considering the Archos 605 because I already have a Shuffle for music, and the bigger screen of the Archos seemed attractive (especially if it doesn't have this issue!) The Archos is cheaper as well (the 30GB is under $300.) It's not pocketable, but again my Shuffle would be for that.

Final Note- No matter what I do, I am very glad I waited for Best Buy to stock it, so I have the option of a hassle-free refund with no restocking fee...

[jmpage2]

Does anyone else think that it's funny that the people who are having the issue have taken pains to post example photos, etc, but noone who claims they have a 'good one' have done something similar?

I would love to see a photo of some movie video or darker photographs on a screen that supposedly does not have the issue.

[madmaxmedia]

Well, you normally don't need to post an image of a product if it's operating normally.

I'm sure someone could post a good one. But again, it's kind of weird when you have to view the screen at an off angle to minimize the problem with blacks.

It seems like its not so much a problem with the LCD displaying black pixels, it more like the screen seems like it has a film on it, or looks polarized somehow. I'm just hoping that break-in reduces the problem.

Does anyone else think that it's funny that the people who are having the issue have taken pains to post example photos, etc, but noone who claims they have a 'good one' have done something similar?

I would love to see a photo of some movie video or darker photographs on a screen that supposedly does not have the issue.

[jmpage2]

There's now a video up at Youtube that shows the video quality on the Touch compared to the new LED backlit Nano playing the same movie.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EXbTb5jvuhE

[isaac17]

Okay... I have A121 and no screen issues whatsoever

[cavemonkey50]

Okay... I have A121 and no screen issues whatsoever

What do you mean A121? What number is that?

[onionperson654]

There's now a video up at Youtube that shows the video quality on the Touch compared to the new LED backlit Nano playing the same movie.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EXbTb5jvuhE

WOW. For those with bad iPod Touches, is that what it's like?

If so, then Apple really screwed up on this one. On the other hand, they have to fix it or people will loose faith in the iPod brand.

[madmaxmedia]

WOW. For those with bad iPod Touches, is that what it's like?

If so, then Apple really screwed up on this one. On the other hand, they have to fix it or people will loose faith in the iPod brand.

Mine's not quite that bad. But that's the effect you get, and it's annoying to see it when you are looking straight on at the screen. When you tilt it slightly it's better, but then the color starts to fade.

If it looked okay 100% straight on, and looked bad tilted, that would be easier to deal with. My Motorola RAZR is like that, and produces the same 'negative' effect when you tilt the screen at all. That would lead me to believe that the Touch screen is inferior to the iPhone's.

[Eidorian]

I got to play with a Nano today a the Apple Store Keystone. I was very surprised at the quality on all of the display models I tried.

That Touch to Nano comparison video was painful to watch.

[TechnoLawyer]

If you want to check it for black colours then just use the home screen - which is a default black screen. if it is not doing it there then it is more likely a software problem which i am sure will be corrected in a matter of time.

The last scene in the Fountains of Wayne video "Someone to Love" is a good test for the negative black. My iPhone has this problem.

[awmazz]

There's now a video up at Youtube that shows the video quality on the Touch compared to the new LED backlit Nano playing the same movie.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EXbTb5jvuhE

That is truly shockingly bad.

No wonder they photoshopped iPhone screens onto it for the advertising. Which has clearly been a highly misleading thing to do.

[Zwhaler]

I compared the iPod touch and iPhone.

The iPhone has better blacks than the iPod, but the iPod has much better and brighter whites than the iPhone.

[iShak]

There's now a video up at Youtube that shows the video quality on the Touch compared to the new LED backlit Nano playing the same movie.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EXbTb5jvuhE

*speechless* ..

what happened to the Apple company that I knew? the one with strict quality controls and solid products?

this stuff is absolutely junk!

(still I want an iPod Touch provided that it has none of this BS)

[Evangelion]

*speechless* ..

what happened to the Apple company that I knew? the one with strict quality controls and solid products?

this stuff is absolutely junk!

(still I want an iPod Touch provided that it has none of this BS)

Oh come on! It's not like touch is crap whereas every single previous Apple-product has been flawless. MBP's had all kinds of issues, some of the PowerMac G4's were unbearably loud (earning them the nickane of "windtunnel-G4") etc. etc.

Yes, some touch's seem to be having some problems. Which is why I'll propably wait for few weeks before getting one. By then we should know the magnitude of this problem.

[gloss]

My screen issues aren't nearly as severe as the ones demonstrated here, but the Apple Store still agreed to replace my unit once their next shipment arrived, no questions asked.

Obviously they're aware of the issue.

[Sean Dempsey]

WOW. For those with bad iPod Touches, is that what it's like?

If so, then Apple really screwed up on this one. On the other hand, they have to fix it or people will loose faith in the iPod brand.

no, that youtube is pretty misaligned, they are watching the Touch with it tilted away from them (from the lens persepctive) with the nano straight on. If you tilt your Touch away from you like that, then yeah, it will look weird, but there is no normal circulstance you would sit and watch a video with the ipod 30 degrees tilted away from you.

[gloss]

no, that youtube is pretty misaligned, they are watching the Touch with it tilted away from them (from the lens persepctive) with the nano straight on. If you tilt your Touch away from you like that, then yeah, it will look weird, but there is no normal circulstance you would sit and watch a video with the ipod 30 degrees tilted away from you.

He made a second video where he shifted the camera directly overhead of the touch, it doesn't help much.

[metalarmed]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but take a look at this:

http://www.apple-touch.com/ipod-touch-screen-problem-negative-black-effect-1534.php

This is horrible!

[ps49556n]

guys im telling you, turn up the brightness in settings


yes



You are missing the point, people should not have to adjust the brightness when iphone works correctly out of the box.

[jok]

Hey guy's! lok at what I've just read on apple-touch.com:
" God my iPod Touch from NorthPark center in Dallas Friday morning.

The weird dark colors was one of the first things that I immediately noticed when playing video. Then I went to the Apple discussion boards and found out that lots of people have the same problem.

Have you ever seen those 3D images on the cover of a magazine or your credit card? It’s kind of like that effect. The light shade occurs on the upper side (or left) of the ipod so your left eye sees the problem, but your right eye doesn’t. Put the two together and your brain is confused into thinking it’s a 3D image of some sort. It’s a weird effect.

You know what’s really funny? There’s this one guy on the Apple discussion board who bought 3 touches (2 for his two sons) and all three have different degrees of dark problems. One’s severe, one doesn’t have it, and one’s in between. So basically, it’s a lottery right now as to who has a good one and who has a bad one.


...looks like it depends on your chance!

[RCGMac]

+1

It is an absolute amazing piece of technology! And I can't believe I only paid $300 for it.

+ 1, I am lucky that my Touch is perfect, no display problems and no hissing. I enjoyed playing with it all weekend. The ability to use the internet is great as well. Well worth the $300, IMHO.

BTW, I picked up my 8GB Touch at the Southdale :apple: Store in Minneapolis on Friday morning about 11am Central.

[RCGMac]

I will try to get a picture of mine tonight when I get home. I don't have a really good camera, but I will try my best. I know I am not crazy and I am not stirring the pot. My screen is just fine streight on. It is not like every Touch is a bad one, more than likely there are many that are just fine.

Like I said I will try my best to get a good shot of it tonight, but all I have is my iSight in my Macbook.

[animenick65]

I have the screen issue. I bought mine at a Best Buy. Can I get it exchanged at any Best Buy or even an Apple Store seeing as its under warranty obviously?

[jxdragon]

question, can the contrast possibly be hacked in such a way that we can manually calibrate the contrast levels? because... well, there are differing degrees of black negativity, so even though this is likely a hardware issue, perhaps it can be mollified with software? i have a bad one, not too extreme but pretty unacceptable... i don't want to take it back to best buy just yet because i don't want to open a new touch up just to find yet another bad one.

[gkarris]

question, can the contrast possibly be hacked in such a way that we can manually calibrate the contrast levels? because... well, there are differing degrees of black negativity, so even though this is likely a hardware issue, perhaps it can be mollified with software? i have a bad one, not too extreme but pretty unacceptable... i don't want to take it back to best buy just yet because i don't want to open a new touch up just to find yet another bad one.

If you read the other posts, it's the lack of properly coating the LCD screen. A replacement screen is the only way to fix these things...

[jmpage2]

I have the screen issue. I bought mine at a Best Buy. Can I get it exchanged at any Best Buy or even an Apple Store seeing as its under warranty obviously?


You have 30 days to return it or ask for it to be exchanged at Best Buy. Past 30 days they will tell you to deal with Apple.

It is possible (although unlikely) that Apple will do some kind of recall in which the unit could be swapped out far beyond the normal 30 day window.

If you call Apple about the problem and they choose to service the unit it is likely that it will be replaced by a refurbished unit.

[jxdragon]

I know that a manual contrast wont technically solve the issue of the hardware, but the point in calibration is that if something is offset, you can put it back in center. For example if someones iPod was unusually bright, the issue can be resolved by manually sliding the brightness bar down. The iPod will still be inherently bright, its just that YOU won't notice it.

[DavoMrMac]

You can try this little video. It is nothing flash, but simplifies testing the iPod Touch or iPhone screen. More will be added to the video once it becomes available. You can also submit screens for testing.

http://www.geekanoids.co.uk/2007/09/ipod-touch-iphone-screen-test-movie.html

[gkarris]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but take a look at this:

http://www.apple-touch.com/ipod-touch-screen-problem-negative-black-effect-1534.php

This is horrible!


Thanks, great example...

Take it back, people!!!

[hotshotharry]

lol but with all these features xxxx://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xXNoB3t8vM they didnt have time to work on a good screen !!! :-)

[Iced Angel]

I wasn't so lucky with my macbook pro's screen !! now I'm really afraid of getting an iPod touch :( should i wait, or same story ... " no revision ... buy it as is" ?

[defalkner]

I wonder if the iPods were in cold weather recently. I know the cold can severely affect screen performance. So maybe you need to let your iPod warm up? I dunno, I'm just thinking here. From the looks of the few videos on the net, the blacks look perfectly black to me. Does anyone have an iPod Touch and an iPod 5G to compare them both? I am happy with my 5G screen so if the iPod touch's screen is better than that, I will be happy.

You know whats funny I bought my iPod 80GB Classic from Circuit City in Redding California on Sept 11th and me and my boyfriend sat on the couch and opened really carefully laughing about how overly careful we were being about it. When I slid the box top off I noticed there was condensation in the box?!?! Yes - it was WET! I smeared my finger across the top of the unit to see if what I was seeing was true and it was. The unit was in perfect shape but it was wet like I was in the bathroom taking a shower wet. LOL I was worried until I peeled the plastic protective film off and everything was fine. It's working perfect. But on the note; I wonder if SHIPPING maybe has more to do with it than Apple? Hmmmm! ;) in regards to your weather playing a part with performance of the screen....