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MacRumors
Sep 17, 2007, 04:49 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has posted iTunes 7.4.2 for Mac (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/itunes742formac.html) and Windows (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/itunes742forwindows.html) today.

What’s New in this Version
iTunes 7.4.2 addresses an issue with creating ringtones using iTunes Plus song purchases and includes bug fixes to improve stability and performance.

Apple recently introduced 7.4.1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/07/itunes-7-4-1-update-released/) on September 7th. The 7.4.1 update had disabled a workaround that allowed users to create their own ringtones out of any song. No word on whether or not the 7.4.2 update causes any problems with unofficial ringtones.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/17/apple-updates-itunes-to-7-4-2/)



dizastor
Sep 17, 2007, 04:51 PM
I'd be curious to see if iToner still works.

Seems they've stepped up the development a few notches, most likely to keep record labels happy for a little while.

lamina
Sep 17, 2007, 04:51 PM
Let us know what happens to the newest ringtone workaround.

SalsaShark
Sep 17, 2007, 04:51 PM
Sure does (cause problems). My own ringtones are gone from the Ringtone tab. Tried re-making and importing them, but it won't accept them. Also synced and removed ringtones from the phone.

Peace
Sep 17, 2007, 04:52 PM
If this fixed a bug creating ringtones with 256k iTunes+ songs they didn't do a very good job because I still can't do it with any John Lennon iTunes+ songs.

Mitch1984
Sep 17, 2007, 04:53 PM
I can't wait to go throughthe package contents of iTunes after this update.

siurpeeman
Sep 17, 2007, 04:53 PM
I'd be curious to see if iToner still works.

Seems they've stepped up the development a few notches, most likely to keep record labels happy for a little while.

itoner still works for me.

Electro Funk
Sep 17, 2007, 04:54 PM
Does anyone know if this update will erase the notes on my phone?

matticus008
Sep 17, 2007, 04:55 PM
Does anyone know if this update will erase the notes on my phone?
Of course not. It's an iTunes update, not an iPhone update.

shinji
Sep 17, 2007, 04:58 PM
when I do check for updates, it still says 7.4.1 is the latest?

Electro Funk
Sep 17, 2007, 04:59 PM
Of course not. It's an iTunes update, not an iPhone update.

good point :o

chr1s60
Sep 17, 2007, 04:59 PM
My iTunes still says 7.4.1 is current. That should change soon though. So iToner 1.0.1 is still working but MakeiPhoneRingtone isn't?

swwack91
Sep 17, 2007, 05:00 PM
it hopefully addresses some problems that people are complaining about Classics taking forever to be recognized and taking forever to be ejected.

that, and the fact that people's new iPods are crashing after transferring large chunks of info...


hopefully...

zap2
Sep 17, 2007, 05:01 PM
Weird...my Lennon songs from iTunes don't work....and less of my old ones seems to work :(



"While My Guitar Gently Weeps" by Phish can no longer be made into a Ringtone...but I had already made it one :(

kainjow
Sep 17, 2007, 05:02 PM
My iTunes still says 7.4.1 is current. That should change soon though. So iToner 1.0.1 is still working but MakeiPhoneRingtone isn't?

when I do check for updates, it still says 7.4.1 is the latest?

Run the normal Software Update.

psychofreak
Sep 17, 2007, 05:03 PM
*Crosses fingers for unlikely event that this is to provide compatibility for UK iPhone released tomorrow*

Bradley W
Sep 17, 2007, 05:03 PM
_

joshysquashy
Sep 17, 2007, 05:04 PM
does anyone think this update has anything to do with the UK iPhone launch in 11 hours? :D

Fuchal
Sep 17, 2007, 05:04 PM
My MakeiPhoneRingtone.app ringtones are gone after updating.

Oh well :D All iTunes updates are welcome, since its probably the most heavily used app on my system!

ghall
Sep 17, 2007, 05:05 PM
Now waiting for the iPhone update...

And...where is it Apple? It's not like you to release a solo update.

ricosuave
Sep 17, 2007, 05:05 PM
does anyone think this update has anything to do with the UK iPhone launch in 11 hours? :D

I do :p

moki
Sep 17, 2007, 05:06 PM
I'd be curious to see if iToner still works.

Seems they've stepped up the development a few notches, most likely to keep record labels happy for a little while.

We can confirm that iToner continues to work (http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/) with iTunes 7.4.2. Yay. :)

I've seen some people state that the various renaming hacks are now broken.

Zolk
Sep 17, 2007, 05:06 PM
The capacity bar for my iPhone in iTunes is no longer specifying the media types. It just says "Other."

Update: Actually it looks like my music is no longer showing up on the iPhone, even though it's still taking up disk space. When trying to sync, iTunes says the phone is linked to another copy of iTunes. I told it to erase and re-sync, but it's refusing the delete the music now identified as "Other" and tells me there's not enough space to to sync my music library.

LSK6453
Sep 17, 2007, 05:06 PM
itoner still works, but the m4a file conversion does not.

aliquis-
Sep 17, 2007, 05:08 PM
Ok, can someone tell me how it's "positive" when Apples updates the version of iTunes just to make it harder to make your own ringtone?

neven
Sep 17, 2007, 05:10 PM
Ok, can someone tell me how it's "positive" when Apples updates the version of iTunes just to make it harder to make your own ringtone?

1. A lot of people don't care either way about ringtones so that matter is at best irrelevant to them.

2. The update hopefully fixes problems some users have had with iTunes - instability with large libraries, handling of new iPods.

If you're in that group and the new release resolves those issues for you, that's a positive.

nateco
Sep 17, 2007, 05:11 PM
Ummm


I updated and now Finder won't see my harddrive where all my music was stored.....I had two partition on my 500 gig mybook.


Starting to panic a little....soon as I re-launched iTunes...my 16,000+ songs seem to be missing.


HELP.

nemaslov
Sep 17, 2007, 05:11 PM
it hopefully addresses some problems that people are complaining about Classics taking forever to be recognized and taking forever to be ejected.

that, and the fact that people's new iPods are crashing after transferring large chunks of info...


hopefully...

That would be the iPod firmware upgrade that came out this past weekend, probably not this iTunes upgrade. I got a 160GB classic and it's worked perfectly for the past week. I have over 100GB of music only and covers and it is wonderful. No problems here!

chr1s60
Sep 17, 2007, 05:12 PM
Finally updating. I hope something in this update will have something to do with a new feature in the iPhone update we are waiting for.

neven
Sep 17, 2007, 05:16 PM
Finally updating. I hope something in this update will have something to do with a new feature in the iPhone update we are waiting for.

I don't believe this has anything to do with iPhone. It probably does what it says - fixes bugs and changes the ringtone functionality.

While Apple's update descriptions are notoriously short, it's not always reasonable to assume that this is because they're hiding stuff. Bug fixes don't make for terribly exciting writing.

yayaba
Sep 17, 2007, 05:16 PM
Man, I'm holding out at 7.4.0 as long as I can. I'm still using the original rename m4a to m4r workaround to load ringtones.

swingerofbirch
Sep 17, 2007, 05:17 PM
Good lord, I always do all the apple updates, but am I now just updating so Apple can go after vigilante ringtone makers--a group that doesn't even apply to me? This is the second update in the last couple of weeks that seems to be about nothing other than disabling ringtones.

They should call it "License Enforcement Update" instead of Software Update.

ditdot
Sep 17, 2007, 05:17 PM
My "unauthorized" ringtones have disappeared. Anyone know how to get them back?

Ha ze
Sep 17, 2007, 05:20 PM
Now waiting for the iPhone update...

Seriously, wheres my WiFi iTunes Store?

nsayer
Sep 17, 2007, 05:20 PM
I had done the AtomicParseley --stik hack to create ringtones with 7.4.1. With 7.4.2 they are gone.

chr1s60
Sep 17, 2007, 05:21 PM
Good lord, I always do all the apple updates, but am I now just updating so Apple can go after vigilante ringtone makers--a group that doesn't even apply to me? This is the second update in the last couple of weeks that seems to be about nothing other than disabling ringtones.

They should call it "License Enforcement Update" instead of Software Update.

I like the idea for "License Enforcement Update." I think Apple is only going to do this for a while. In a day or less there will already be a new route for getting free ringtones. Eventually Apple will realize that they aren't going to win the war against people who want free ringtones. They are probably just showing that they are making an attempt to protect their investment and I am sure they will stop pretty soon.

Virgil-TB2
Sep 17, 2007, 05:21 PM
Ok, can someone tell me how it's "positive" when Apples updates the version of iTunes just to make it harder to make your own ringtone?The truth is we sometimes make mistakes since we don't have the psychic powers you seem to possess. :)

Stridder44
Sep 17, 2007, 05:28 PM
Good lord, I always do all the apple updates, but am I now just updating so Apple can go after vigilante ringtone makers--a group that doesn't even apply to me? This is the second update in the last couple of weeks that seems to be about nothing other than disabling ringtones.

They should call it "License Enforcement Update" instead of Software Update.



Seriously! Who gives a crap about ringtones or the music store. Let's see some actual changes like serious bug fixes and performance issues.

CJD2112
Sep 17, 2007, 05:28 PM
I'll pass on this one. "License Enforcement Update" couldn't be more apt.

I find it amusing that Apple is taking more time in enforcing ringtone protection than releasing an actual firmware update for the phone. Let's see, they slash the price by 33%, release ringtones for another $.99, then concentrate more on iTunes updates to keep the RIAA happy by enforcing "pay for ringtone" service, but neglect updating the phone for people that have serious issues; such as Safari crashing, scrolling issues, inability to manual manage iPhone, not to mention iChat, landscape mode for keyboard in SMS, MMS, etc. etc. Wondering a bit about Apple's priorities as of late...

BrettFarve04
Sep 17, 2007, 05:32 PM
Weird...my Lennon songs from iTunes don't work....and less of my old ones seems to work :(



"While My Guitar Gently Weeps" by Phish can no longer be made into a Ringtone...but I had already made it one :(

That's because I don't think john lennon would like to have his songs exploited on cell phones and other various devices.

Mac-Addict
Sep 17, 2007, 05:33 PM
Apple updated iTunes to work with the new 3G 16GB iPhoneee being released tomorrow!

chr1s60
Sep 17, 2007, 05:37 PM
Apple updated iTunes to work with the new 3G 16GB iPhoneee being released tomorrow!

Haha. Wake up, you are dreaming.

Peace
Sep 17, 2007, 05:39 PM
This update did fix a bug when you double click on a video.
It opens.You used to click on the red close button and the music would still play.Now it stops.So there is a few bug fixes in this update.

daneoni
Sep 17, 2007, 05:41 PM
Is it safe to assume iUnlock/iNdependence/iActivator won't work with this version of iTunes?

cal6n
Sep 17, 2007, 05:42 PM
Is it safe to assume iUnlock/iNdependence/iActivator won't work with this version of iTunes?

Indeed. This is the important question. Inquiring minds need to know!

nemaslov
Sep 17, 2007, 05:44 PM
i personally think most custom cell phone rings are annoying. Put it on vibrate and keep it in your pocket.

slffl
Sep 17, 2007, 05:46 PM
You know, I'm not opposed to buying ringtones. Howerver, I don't want lame song ringtones!!! I hope they add 'non-music' ringtones to iTunes soon if they plan to keep breaking my home-made ringtones.

briand05
Sep 17, 2007, 05:48 PM
Well I'm not downloading this.

gwangung
Sep 17, 2007, 05:49 PM
I'll pass on this one. "License Enforcement Update" couldn't be more apt.

I find it amusing that Apple is taking more time in enforcing ringtone protection than releasing an actual firmware update for the phone. Let's see, they slash the price by 33%, release ringtones for another $.99, then concentrate more on iTunes updates to keep the RIAA happy by enforcing "pay for ringtone" service, but neglect updating the phone for people that have serious issues; such as Safari crashing, scrolling issues, inability to manual manage iPhone, not to mention iChat, landscape mode for keyboard in SMS, MMS, etc. etc. Wondering a bit about Apple's priorities as of late...

You ought to put that mind reading ability to work in business. Could make a fortune.

People can think what they want to think...but remember...these are HACKS. Built in nooks and crannies of software that are less than guarunteed to survive if no one's looking out for them. Half the time they WILL survive...half the time they won't.

MacUser4_20
Sep 17, 2007, 05:49 PM
This is an iTunes update NOT an iPhone update. They will still work on the iPhone, but iTunes may/or may not remove certain hacked items...

Is it safe to assume iUnlock/iNdependence/iActivator won't work with this version of iTunes?!

un1ty
Sep 17, 2007, 05:50 PM
I have to say that the rollout on the ringtones feature was pretty messy and somewhat annoying. They really need to allow the ringtone editor to work on any music in your library.

briand05
Sep 17, 2007, 05:51 PM
You ought to put that mind reading ability to work in business. Could make a fortune.

People can think what they want to think...but remember...these are HACKS. Built in nooks and crannies of software that are less than guarunteed to survive if no one's looking out for them. Half the time they WILL survive...half the time they won't.

They'll survive as long as you refuse to update.

~J~
Sep 17, 2007, 05:51 PM
I'll pass on this one. "License Enforcement Update" couldn't be more apt.

I find it amusing that Apple is taking more time in enforcing ringtone protection than releasing an actual firmware update for the phone. Let's see, they slash the price by 33%, release ringtones for another $.99, then concentrate more on iTunes updates to keep the RIAA happy by enforcing "pay for ringtone" service, but neglect updating the phone for people that have serious issues; such as Safari crashing, scrolling issues, inability to manual manage iPhone, not to mention iChat, landscape mode for keyboard in SMS, MMS, etc. etc. Wondering a bit about Apple's priorities as of late...

Couldnt agree more

ditdot
Sep 17, 2007, 05:52 PM
WOW!! Even the folder under my itunes music library for ringtones has disappeared. HMMMMMMM.....

I tried to readd them after they disappeared by changing the .m4a to .m4r. It didn't work.

shadowfax
Sep 17, 2007, 05:52 PM
I did my ringtones by hand. They disappeared. After some indignation, I figured it out. You have to use that ID3 mod (Atomic Parsley), but use .m4r extensions. Once you change the STIK field to 14 using atomic parsley and change the extension from .m4a to .m4r, you can drag ringtones into your library again by hand. I am happy.

Here is how I make ringtones:


Make sure that /usr/local/bin is in your path:
Open Terminal, type pico ~/.profile and then add this line if it isn't there:
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin Save the file and exit using Ctrl-O, <return> and then Ctrl-X.
Download Atomic Parsley, put the executable in "/usr/local/bin":
Use the finder to navigate to /usr/local/bin using the cmd-shift-g.
Open Terminal, type chmod a+x AtomicParsley
Go into "/usr/local/bin" and make a new script called "makeringtone":
Open Terminal, type pico makeringtone and then put this text in the file:
#!/bin/sh
AtomicParsley "$PWD/$1" --stik value=14
Save the file and exit using Ctrl-O, <return> and then Ctrl-X. Now, make it executable by typing chmod a+x makeringtone
Change to the directory where the file you want to turn into a ringtone is, and type makeringtone filename.m4a then rename the output and put it in your library.
For example, I would type:
cd ~/Desktop; \
makeringtone AlarmClock.m4a
Then delete AlarmClock.m4a (if you want) and rename the temporary file that the output indicates to "AlarmClock.m4r" (or whatever you want).
Finally, just drag that onto your iTunes Library.


Sorry if that was too technical, but I hope it helps anyone that is interested. Once you make the script file, it's pretty straightforward to open a Terminal window and perform the last step to make a ringtone. It would be annoying if you did it once a day, but I only want 2 ringtones, so it's nice for me.

Peace
Sep 17, 2007, 05:58 PM
It's becoming painfully obvious that Apple is NOT going to allow people making custom ringtones the way people have been doing it here in the forums so I have an idea.

Why don't you guys just stop trying so Apple can get some real updates out eh?

Nothing personal mind you and I'm not taking sides.I just want to see some real updates as it appears Apple is playing cat and mouse here.

shamino
Sep 17, 2007, 05:58 PM
Ok, can someone tell me how it's "positive" when Apples updates the version of iTunes just to make it harder to make your own ringtone?
There is no official meaning to a positive or negative rating. I've asked on the MR forums and have had that confirmed.

While some people (yourself too, it seems) treat it as "this is good news" and "this is bad news", a lot of others (including me) treat it as "you should read this" and "don't bother reading this".

billchase2
Sep 17, 2007, 06:01 PM
forget it, not downloading...

shadowfax
Sep 17, 2007, 06:03 PM
It's becoming painfully obvious that Apple is NOT going to allow people making custom ringtones the way people have been doing it here in the forums so I have an idea.

Why don't you guys just stop trying so Apple can get some real updates out eh?

Nothing personal mind you and I'm not taking sides.I just want to see some real updates as it appears Apple is playing cat and mouse here.

The hacks still work, they just have to be fine-tuned. I don't think they are trying to squash custom ringtones. I think they just don't care and they are trying to make a reasonable policy. They started out with making you change the extension in 7.4.0, and then they changed it so that you DIDN'T have to in 7.4.1, but you could just use the hack where you change the metadata (set the STIK field to 14). Now you just have to do both--set the extension to .m4r and change the metadata. That's easy enough, isn't it? I think so.

SLAPSHOTW
Sep 17, 2007, 06:04 PM
In a day or less there will already be a new route for getting free ringtones. Eventually Apple will realize that they aren't going to win the war against people who want free ringtones.

I'm pretty sure that they're required by the labels to address problems, just like they were with FairPlay. I have a feeling that if the labels allowed them to give ringtones away for free, they would, just like offering DRM-free music.

SAMTATSICPRO
Sep 17, 2007, 06:05 PM
Apple is not going to win, as soon as I get home Ill figure it out!

spetykowski
Sep 17, 2007, 06:05 PM
I just updated the itunes with a non-hacked iPhone using iPhoneRingToneMaker for the pc.. and it still works with out any issues... you still have to manuelly go into iPhoneRingToneMaker and do there restore!!!

shadowfax
Sep 17, 2007, 06:07 PM
Apple is not going to win, as soon as I get home Ill figure it out!
They started out with making you change the extension in 7.4.0, and then they changed it so that you DIDN'T have to in 7.4.1, but you could just use the hack where you change the metadata (set the STIK field to 14). Now you just have to do both--set the extension to .m4r and change the metadata.
....

offwidafairies
Sep 17, 2007, 06:07 PM
*another* update :confused:

twoodcc
Sep 17, 2007, 06:07 PM
i wonder if this has anything to do with tomorrow?

harper101
Sep 17, 2007, 06:08 PM
The capacity bar for my iPhone in iTunes is no longer specifying the media types. It just says "Other."

Update: Actually it looks like my music is no longer showing up on the iPhone, even though it's still taking up disk space. When trying to sync, iTunes says the phone is linked to another copy of iTunes. I told it to erase and re-sync, but it's refusing the delete the music now identified as "Other" and tells me there's not enough space to to sync my music library.


Wow, I thought it was just me. I've been getting the same message about being linked to another copy of iTunes.

Black Belt
Sep 17, 2007, 06:08 PM
The 7.4.1 update repeatedly crashed and failed. I had to do it all manually, which was absurd. Instead of trying to force compliance with a dubious ringtone scheme, they should get their software to actually work.

Peace
Sep 17, 2007, 06:11 PM
The 7.4.1 update repeatedly crashed and failed. I had to do it all manually, which was absurd. Instead of trying to force compliance with a dubious ringtone scheme, they should get their software to actually work.

The new update is 7.4.2

Kenn Marks
Sep 17, 2007, 06:12 PM
No matter how I created my custom ringtones if they were not purchased they disappeared from my iPhone. I was really beginning to like knowing who was calling without pulling my iPhone from it's holster. Now all that is for naught until I use one of the programs still working that will reinstall them. Maybe we need a program that changes all the meta data of the file so that the iTunes software will not kill it unless it compares the ringtones list against your purchased list.

So if I make something in Garageband why can't I keep it as a ringtone?

moki
Sep 17, 2007, 06:13 PM
No matter how I created my custom ringtones if they were not purchased they disappeared from my iPhone. I was really beginning to like knowing who was calling without pulling my iPhone from it's holster. Now all that is for naught until I use one of the programs still working that will reinstall them. Maybe we need a program that changes all the meta data of the file so that the iTunes software will not kill it unless it compares the ringtones list against your purchased list.

So if I make something in Garageband why can't I keep it as a ringtone?

If you use iToner 1.0.1, your ringtones would continue to work just fine through the iTunes 7.4.2 update.

BulkHedd
Sep 17, 2007, 06:16 PM
On my MacBook it removed the ringtones from my iPhone and from iTunes but the Ringtones folder is still there and the files are still inside.
However, before I had SEVERAL songs that were ringtone-able but now I have none.

gusapple
Sep 17, 2007, 06:16 PM
i wonder if this has anything to do with tomorrow?

Now today!:D:D But, if Apple does, for some reason, announce a new 3G 16 gig iPhone, I am gonna return mine and get the new one. And I thought I was being smart, buying it when the price dropped!:o

harper101
Sep 17, 2007, 06:23 PM
No matter how I created my custom ringtones if they were not purchased they disappeared from my iPhone. I was really beginning to like knowing who was calling without pulling my iPhone from it's holster. Now all that is for naught until I use one of the programs still working that will reinstall them. Maybe we need a program that changes all the meta data of the file so that the iTunes software will not kill it unless it compares the ringtones list against your purchased list.

So if I make something in Garageband why can't I keep it as a ringtone?


You know what Apple needs to really do is....let anyone with an iPhone and Apple BT to hear who is calling through the earpiece. That way....no annoying ringtones AND they won't have to pull out their iPhone from their holster just to see who's calling....

shadowfax
Sep 17, 2007, 06:23 PM
On my MacBook it removed the ringtones from my iPhone and from iTunes but the Ringtones folder is still there and the files are still inside.
However, before I had SEVERAL songs that were ringtone-able but now I have none.

Try setting the metadata using atomic parsley, as described by this post (http://weblog.xanga.com/gryphondwb/615474010/iphone-ringtones---what-did-itunes-741-really-do.html#) (AtomicParsley ringtone.m4a --stik value=14) and then setting the extension on the output file to .m4r. it works, which is why I have been posting about it...

cgray24
Sep 17, 2007, 06:27 PM
I find it amusing that Apple is taking more time in enforcing ringtone protection than releasing an actual firmware update for the phone. Let's see, they slash the price by 33%, release ringtones for another $.99, then concentrate more on iTunes updates to keep the RIAA happy by enforcing "pay for ringtone" service, but neglect updating the phone for people that have serious issues; such as Safari crashing, scrolling issues, inability to manual manage iPhone, not to mention iChat, landscape mode for keyboard in SMS, MMS, etc. etc. Wondering a bit about Apple's priorities as of late...

Your assumption that apple is one big group just going from one project to the other is unfortunately misplaced. It would be a reasonable statement to say no iphone OS X development was delayed during any of this Itunes releases as they are more than likely two different teams with their own separate Iterative and incremental development cycles. Have no fear, your update is coming.

At least we have phones that do get updated

sblasl
Sep 17, 2007, 06:30 PM
Damn, I knew that I should not have put my "Easy Button" in my Wife's garage sale!!:rolleyes:

I did my ringtones by hand. They disappeared. After some indignation, I figured it out. You have to use that ID3 mod (Atomic Parsley), but use .m4r extensions. Once you change the STIK field to 14 using atomic parsley and change the extension from .m4a to .m4r, you can drag ringtones into your library again by hand. I am happy.

Here is how I make ringtones:


Make sure that /usr/local/bin is in your path:
Open Terminal, type pico ~/.profile and then add this line if it isn't there:
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin Save the file and exit using Ctrl-O, <return> and then Ctrl-X.
Download Atomic Parsley, put the executable in "/usr/local/bin":
Use the finder to navigate to /usr/local/bin using the cmd-shift-g.
Open Terminal, type chmod a+x AtomicParsley
Go into "/usr/local/bin" and make a new script called "makeringtone":
Open Terminal, type pico makeringtone and then put this text in the file:
#!/bin/sh
AtomicParsley "$PWD/$1" --stik value=14
Save the file and exit using Ctrl-O, <return> and then Ctrl-X. Now, make it executable by typing chmod a+x makeringtone
Change to the directory where the file you want to turn into a ringtone is, and type makeringtone filename.m4a then rename the output and put it in your library.
For example, I would type:
cd ~/Desktop; \
makeringtone AlarmClock.m4a
Then delete AlarmClock.m4a (if you want) and rename the temporary file that the output indicates to "AlarmClock.m4r" (or whatever you want).
Finally, just drag that onto your iTunes Library.


Sorry if that was too technical, but I hope it helps anyone that is interested. Once you make the script file, it's pretty straightforward to open a Terminal window and perform the last step to make a ringtone. It would be annoying if you did it once a day, but I only want 2 ringtones, so it's nice for me.

digduggler
Sep 17, 2007, 06:55 PM
If you use iToner 1.0.1, your ringtones would continue to work just fine through the iTunes 7.4.2 update.

I have to commend moki and Ambrosia software. They regularly provide comments here on new apple releases, are quick to respond on their forums and provide updates for their product in a timely fashion. I spent $15 the day iToner broke and was fairly miffed, but in a few days a new release was available.

Other companies would do well to have their superb communication skills and turnaround time.

donlphi
Sep 17, 2007, 07:03 PM
Do iToner ringtones survive FIRMWARE updates?

If they do, I'll pay the little $15 fee for it. I just don't want to pay for something that I can do with iFuntastic for free if both solutions screw up my ringtones after firmware updates.
:confused:

digduggler
Sep 17, 2007, 07:07 PM
Do iToner ringtones survive FIRMWARE updates?

If they do, I'll pay the little $15 fee for it. I just don't want to pay for something that I can do with iFuntastic for free if both solutions screw up my ringtones after firmware updates.
:confused:

Well, they promise "Even better, your ringtones will continue to work with future iPhone OS updates!". So far, so good, but I bet the next firmware release is on the horizon bringing itms on the go, etc, so that will be a good test...

whistler72
Sep 17, 2007, 07:13 PM
I'm tired of having to keep creating/re-creating my ringtones..

GRRR. Hulk Smash!

A Pittarelli
Sep 17, 2007, 07:15 PM
maybe this will make my ipod touch ship faster, that s what the x.1 does, please?

Eric Lewis
Sep 17, 2007, 07:18 PM
this sucks

my iPhone doesnt work with 7.4.2 with the iUnlock thing and rogers

aafuss1
Sep 17, 2007, 07:22 PM
Babya Logic created ringtones still work.

rog
Sep 17, 2007, 07:23 PM
i wonder if this has anything to do with tomorrow?
No, 7.4.3 will be released tomorrow to deal with that announcement. Followed by 7.4.4 on Wednesday to deliver the new iPhone update and 7.4.5 on Thursday to kill ringtones again after people figure out how to get them working.

Black Belt
Sep 17, 2007, 07:25 PM
The new update is 7.4.2

Yes, I know, which is why I am not looking forward to dealing with yet another fiasco.

Black Belt
Sep 17, 2007, 07:27 PM
So if I make something in Garageband why can't I keep it as a ringtone?

Because that would be incredibly fair - the music companies want to own that too because nothing creative could possibly occur without them. :rolleyes:

grappler
Sep 17, 2007, 07:29 PM
So, can I make a ringtone of any iTunes Plus song I buy? Since I've just bought a DRM-free version of it? And therefore could conceivably have gone and edited it into a ringtone myself? Because that's the kind of thing we expect when we buy something DRM-free?

aafuss1
Sep 17, 2007, 07:29 PM
If you used Babya Logic to create ringtones, they should work fine as long as you use AtomicParsley.

gwangung
Sep 17, 2007, 07:31 PM
I'm tired of having to keep creating/re-creating my ringtones..

GRRR. Hulk Smash!

Bet Apple programmers were glad about not having to worry about those ringtones, though....

aafuss1
Sep 17, 2007, 07:33 PM
Because that would be incredibly fair - the music companies want to own that too because nothing creative could possibly occur without them. :rolleyes:

What about if all you used was music that you created or the supplied Apple loops.

trunkster
Sep 17, 2007, 07:46 PM
Anyone having a problem with AtomicParsley + renaming to .m4r not working? It adds the ringtone to the "Ringtones" category but then when syncing the iPhone says it's not supported.

nemaslov
Sep 17, 2007, 07:49 PM
True Story: A Few years ago Merv Griffen (US TV personality and Game show inventor) received a check for over one million dollars. He asked his assistant what the check was for an he was told it for RingTones. Merv (who just died last month) had created the game show Jeopardy and also wrote it's theme song. His reponse to his assistant " What are ringtones?" :eek:

TurboSC
Sep 17, 2007, 07:52 PM
True Story: A Few years ago Merv Griffen (US TV personality and Game show inventor) received a check for over one million dollars. He asked his assistant what the check was for an he was told it for RingTones. Merv (who just died last month) had created the game show Jepardy and also wrote it's theme song. His reponse to his assistant " What are ringtones?" :eek:

Minutes later RIAA filed a lawsuit and claimed royalties from the 1 million dollar check...

anyhow... where is my iPhone update! GRRR... WANT ICHAT.

Black Belt
Sep 17, 2007, 07:52 PM
What about if all you used was music that you created or the supplied Apple loops.

Like I said, they are trying to write DRM music laws to muscle you out of the picture brother. If we don't speak up we lose our rights, and we've already lost alot. Take a look at the efforts by the electronic frontier foundation to win back your rights, it's scary at what "The Man" is trying to take away.

Black Belt
Sep 17, 2007, 07:55 PM
Bet Apple programmers were glad about not having to worry about those ringtones, though....

Yeah you can't present anything marginally difficult to them. :rolleyes:

CrusaderKnight
Sep 17, 2007, 07:56 PM
solved my problem

nemaslov
Sep 17, 2007, 07:57 PM
Not to defend the record companies since they have screwed themselves, but ringtones are one new way to make up for lost revenue from loss of sales due to illegal downloads. I do sympathize with musicians who own their publishing. This can bring some good income to them.

aerospace
Sep 17, 2007, 08:01 PM
Not to defend the record companies since they have screwed themselves, but ringtones are one new way to make up for lost revenue from loss of sales due to illegal downloads. I do sympathize with musicians who own their publishing. This can bring some good income to them.


cha ching! someone bought my song as a ringtone, now what will I do with my 6 cents!?! :p

un1ty
Sep 17, 2007, 08:11 PM
Not to defend the record companies since they have screwed themselves, but ringtones are one new way to make up for lost revenue from loss of sales due to illegal downloads. I do sympathize with musicians who own their publishing. This can bring some good income to them.

Apparently the RIAA fought and won the right to sell Ringtones WITHOUT paying the artist's anything.

moki
Sep 17, 2007, 08:16 PM
Do iToner ringtones survive FIRMWARE updates?

If they do, I'll pay the little $15 fee for it. I just don't want to pay for something that I can do with iFuntastic for free if both solutions screw up my ringtones after firmware updates.
:confused:

Yes, barring any unforeseen action from Apple (which given their actions of late, is a necessary disclaimer), your ringtones will survive firmware updates as well. We've updated from 1.0.0->1.0.1 and 1.0.1->1.0.2 and ringtones put in your iPhone via iToner have stayed intact.

CJD2112
Sep 17, 2007, 08:19 PM
Your assumption that apple is one big group just going from one project to the other is unfortunately misplaced. It would be a reasonable statement to say no iphone OS X development was delayed during any of this Itunes releases as they are more than likely two different teams with their own separate Iterative and incremental development cycles. Have no fear, your update is coming.

If that were the case Leopard wouldn't have been delayed from what Jobs admitted was a lack of man power due to concentration within Cupertino on the iPhone. As well, there hasn't been a big update for the iPhone since its release, just minor ones, and updates to keep money and control to the RIAA (while pissing off a lot of iPhone owners). Also, Apple has an admitted history of not wanting to hire more and more people within the company, as Jobs wants to keep Apple, Inc. small, micromanaged and controlled. Thus, it would stand to reason that the manpower utilized in producing minor updates to iTunes in order to keep people from making ringtones out of music they already legally own is taking away from other departments such as focusing on major firmware and software updates (cough*leopard*cough*cough*). In conclusion, no, there most likely aren't two different teams. I highly doubt there is an "iTunes Ringtone Licensing Watchdog Team" and a separate "iTunes Programming Department". In fact, I have an acquaintance Ben who is a 20 something programmer for Apple, hired fresh out of Buffalo from college, who pretty much has supported this fact.

nemaslov
Sep 17, 2007, 08:19 PM
Apparently the RIAA fought and won the right to sell Ringtones WITHOUT paying the artist's anything.

No this is NOT true. I know artists who receive royalties via BMI ASAP and the like for Ringtones. RIAA does not take the money, they are really a lobbying goup that represents and fights on behalf of the record industry. They used to matter. Not anymore though.

aafuss1
Sep 17, 2007, 08:19 PM
That command line method is a nice way of doing ringtones.

moki
Sep 17, 2007, 08:20 PM
True Story: A Few years ago Merv Griffen (US TV personality and Game show inventor) received a check for over one million dollars. He asked his assistant what the check was for an he was told it for RingTones. Merv (who just died last month) had created the game show Jeopardy and also wrote it's theme song. His reponse to his assistant " What are ringtones?" :eek:

That is indeed a true story; excerpt from the Rolling Stone article: (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432607/dear_mister_fantasy/3)

Merv also wrote the song. ''Back then,'' he says, ''all these game-show themes were very ominous -- this mysterioso music. I thought I better not revert to anything that was done in the past. So I went to the piano and fiddled around. I went'' -- he rocks his head back and forth and sings the familiar melody -- '' 'lah-de-dah-dah, lah-de dah.' It couldn't have taken a half-hour.''

Merv estimates that he has made in the neighborhood of $80 million on the song's royalties over the years -- and that was before the advent of a new technology that has only made the song more profitable. Recently, Merv opened a piece of mail containing a ''huge'' check. ''I couldn't think what it was for,'' Merv says. ''I had to ask the young people in my office, 'What does this ''ring tone'' mean?' ''

quigleybc
Sep 17, 2007, 08:48 PM
this sucks

my iPhone doesnt work with 7.4.2 with the iUnlock thing and rogers

oh crap....so much for my plan of unlocking and using Rogers

compuguy1088
Sep 17, 2007, 08:57 PM
No, 7.4.3 will be released tomorrow to deal with that announcement. Followed by 7.4.4 on Wednesday to deliver the new iPhone update and 7.4.5 on Thursday to kill ringtones again after people figure out how to get them working.

7.4.6 is the release when Apple adds there "Mind control" feature, to stop all of this :D.
7.4.7 is when they take over the world: Apple + iTunes :D.

Edit: Actually they don't have to patch it again, for the moment the uploading of ringtones in iTunes in this version is gone, without any loopholes :(.

ghall
Sep 17, 2007, 09:02 PM
My calendar events created on the iPhone no longer sync to iCal. :mad:

hanschien
Sep 17, 2007, 09:02 PM
Good thing I SuperDuper!'d my drive before doing the update. Dragging iTunes.app (7.4.1) from the clone back into the applications folder put everything back to normal.:mad:

edoates
Sep 17, 2007, 09:11 PM
I'll pass on this one. "License Enforcement Update" couldn't be more apt.

I find it amusing that Apple is taking more time in enforcing ringtone protection than releasing an actual firmware update for the phone. Let's see, they slash the price by 33%, release ringtones for another $.99, then concentrate more on iTunes updates to keep the RIAA happy by enforcing "pay for ringtone" service, but neglect updating the phone for people that have serious issues; such as Safari crashing, scrolling issues, inability to manual manage iPhone, not to mention iChat, landscape mode for keyboard in SMS, MMS, etc. etc. Wondering a bit about Apple's priorities as of late...

Especially since it is not at all clear that copying a song for which I have a license (from a CD, for example) to another device to play it (legal), but that it happens to be a ring tone is illegal. In fact, I thought that there was a provision in one of the many copyright acts which forbade interfering with an end user's "fair use" rights, of which I believe this is one. Any lawyers out there who know something about the existing copyright laws?

If Apple is interfering with Fair Use, and that action is forbidden, I expect the suit to be filed any day now. (when monkeys fly out of my nether regions).

Eddie O

Bosunsfate
Sep 17, 2007, 09:17 PM
Well, having created my own ringtones via Garageband can I now get Apple to release them via iTunes?

Hell, I might make a few bucks....:D

Until then I think I'll be pretty happy with iToner.

genshi
Sep 17, 2007, 09:34 PM
cha ching! someone bought my song as a ringtone, now what will I do with my 6 cents!?! :p

Actually, I am an artist on iTunes Music Store and I make 70 cents per song, but not when so many people are peer sharing [my songs] for free. It may not be a big deal to the superstars making millions, but this is part of my bread and butter; it's how I live, and it does hurt when I see that my albums/songs are being ripped more than they are being bought.

Well, having created my own ringtones via Garageband can I now get Apple to release them via iTunes?

Hell, I might make a few bucks....:D

Until then I think I'll be pretty happy with iToner.

You can if you are on a label with a deal with iTunes or you ARE a label/distributor like myself.

asherman13
Sep 17, 2007, 09:35 PM
OK, so I had installed a custom ringtone via the .m4r/.m4a hack (the installing, then changing the file format again so it would sync to the iPhone); the theme of "The West Wing". This was my only non-Apple custom ringtone. I have had it set as my main ringtone for about a week.

Today, I downloaded the trial version of iToner, hoping to reinstall it once the 7.4.2 update would brake it...

BUT!

Although the update to iTunes removed my ringtone from the 'Ringtone' submenu in iTunes, the ringtone is still on my phone! I've resynced it a number of times, even uploaded an Apple ringtone, and it worked!

So, if you don't update to 7.4.2, upload a ringtone and set it as your main tone, and then update to 7.4.2, it should stick!

Hope that helps people!

MikeTheC
Sep 17, 2007, 09:40 PM
...and then there's the rest of us who don't have iPhones to be affected by any of this...

:)

Peace
Sep 17, 2007, 09:41 PM
...and then there's the rest of us who don't have iPhones to be affected by any of this...

:)

That's easy for you to say.you have a Tardis!
:p

compuguy1088
Sep 17, 2007, 09:48 PM
...and then there's the rest of us who don't have iPhones to be affected by any of this...

:)

So??? I don't have one, but its still an annoying thing to go through.

synth3tik
Sep 17, 2007, 09:48 PM
iTunes 7.4.3 released.

This iTunes update tackles issues with people still enjoying their iPhones.

Apples says this new release will charge you $0.99 not only for a custom ringtone, but will charge an extra $0.99 when ever a phone call is received when using that ringtone.

edoates
Sep 17, 2007, 09:49 PM
Actually, I am an artist on iTunes Music Store and I make 79 cents per song, but not when so many people are peer sharing [my songs] for free. It may not be a big deal to the superstars making millions, but this is part of my bread and butter; it's how I live, and it does hurt when I see that my albums/songs are being ripped more than they are being bought.



You can if you are on a label with a deal with iTunes or you ARE a label/distributor like myself.

Even if you haven't a label, you can publish and profit from (assuming anyone buys your music) songs on iTunes; see this web page:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/tunecore

I don't think they have a ringtone arrangement yet, but I can only assume it is in the works. Basically, anyone can get a song "for sale" on iTunes.

Eddie O

George Bailey
Sep 17, 2007, 10:08 PM
That's because I don't think john lennon would like to have his songs exploited on cell phones and other various devices.


And by "his" in this case I assume you mean George Harrison?

cgray24
Sep 17, 2007, 10:13 PM
If that were the case Leopard wouldn't have been delayed from what Jobs admitted was a lack of man power due to concentration within Cupertino on the iPhone.



Both Leapord and Iphone are OS X obviously these teams would share resources if not integrated or the same. Its a fair assessment to say that with full spotlight on iphone that the smart move was to make sure iphone released with at least its bare essentials then suffer the PR nightmare of being delayed. OS X has, what I would call, a fairly good release out
(Tiger) and could handle being delayed.


As well, there hasn't been a big update for the iPhone since its release, just minor ones, and updates to keep money and control to the RIAA (while pissing off a lot of iPhone owners).

No major updates were ever promised to you as a consumer. Just because the update process is much easier for the iphone, doesn't guarantee you any new features at all. Im with you and everyone else here in hopes for great things, but nothing is ethically or legally holding apple from doing anything but maintenance releases, and of course they are going to break thing that take them money. If share holders arnt happy things wont go well for apple.



Also, Apple has an admitted history of not wanting to hire more and more people within the company, as Jobs wants to keep Apple, Inc. small, micromanaged and controlled. Thus, it would stand to reason that the manpower utilized in producing minor updates to iTunes in order to keep people from making ringtones out of music they already legally own is taking away from other departments such as focusing on major firmware and software updates (cough*leopard*cough*cough*).

While its true they keep a tight ship, this still has nothing to do with delaying iphone releases because of itunes work, one doesnt simply move a team of programmers from Itunes over to Leapord, then back over to iphones, then back to itunes. While be it possible, it isnt common pratice and there is no evidence to support otherwise. All these projects are running concurrently and are for the most part mutually exclusive. Even parts of OS X are further broken up to finer detailed areas of work. For example, they have a team entirely dedicated to PDF development and support.

If anything this has more to do with not hiring enough people over all instead their focus on preventing free ringtones. Im sure Mr Jobs would love the RIAA off his back just like you.


In conclusion, no, there most likely aren't two different teams. I highly doubt there is an "iTunes Ringtone Licensing Watchdog Team" and a separate "iTunes Programming Department". In fact, I have an acquaintance Ben who is a 20 something programmer for Apple, hired fresh out of Buffalo from college, who pretty much has supported this fact. Odd, I have a acquaintance in the above mentioned PDF team on OSX who would say different. Guess its words vs word at this point.

Oh well. We can hope for the update we all want.

George Bailey
Sep 17, 2007, 10:13 PM
If that were the case Leopard wouldn't have been delayed from what Jobs admitted was a lack of man power due to concentration within Cupertino on the iPhone.

They needed the OS people. That is a different group. Writing an operating system is quite a bit different from writing applications.

CJD2112
Sep 17, 2007, 11:03 PM
They needed the OS people. That is a different group. Writing an operating system is quite a bit different from writing applications.

Code is code. If that were the case why did Jobs state that they did move OS people over to the iPhone, in writing the OS for the device as well as the accompanying software to run it on the machine (iTunes)?

Applications or OS, it's all the same when it comes to programming languages and types. Most programmers can easily move from one to the other.

Gonzlobo
Sep 17, 2007, 11:03 PM
Ok, can someone tell me how it's "positive" when Apples updates the version of iTunes just to make it harder to make your own ringtone?

Bastards. I'll just keep 7.4.1.

mrpeepers
Sep 17, 2007, 11:07 PM
anyone with an UNLOCKED iPhone have any problems syncing and what not with iTunes?

CJD2112
Sep 17, 2007, 11:09 PM
Both Leapord and Iphone are OS X obviously these teams would share resources if not integrated or the same. Its a fair assessment to say that with full spotlight on iphone that the smart move was to make sure iphone released with at least its bare essentials then suffer the PR nightmare of being delayed. OS X has, what I would call, a fairly good release out
(Tiger) and could handle being delayed.


No major updates were ever promised to you as a consumer. Just because the update process is much easier for the iphone, doesn't guarantee you any new features at all. Im with you and everyone else here in hopes for great things, but nothing is ethically or legally holding apple from doing anything but maintenance releases, and of course they are going to break thing that take them money. If share holders arnt happy things wont go well for apple.



While its true they keep a tight ship, this still has nothing to do with delaying iphone releases because of itunes work, one doesnt simply move a team of programmers from Itunes over to Leapord, then back over to iphones, then back to itunes. While be it possible, it isnt common pratice and there is no evidence to support otherwise. All these projects are running concurrently and are for the most part mutually exclusive. Even parts of OS X are further broken up to finer detailed areas of work. For example, they have a team entirely dedicated to PDF development and support.

If anything this has more to do with not hiring enough people over all instead their focus on preventing free ringtones. Im sure Mr Jobs would love the RIAA off his back just like you.

Odd, I have a acquaintance in the above mentioned PDF team on OSX who would say different. Guess its words vs word at this point.

Oh well. We can hope for the update we all want.

Wow, you certainly took the time in picking apart my statement. Honestly, update or not, if the product has software issues (which the iPhone clearly does), then those issues need to be addressed. As the iPhone is run on software, just as a computer or other smart phone device, a company is expected to address those flaws with software updates. After all, OS X 10.4 has been updated numerous times at no extra cost to the consumer, because that is how it is done. The iPhone is no exception. It is running a version of OS X, and as such updates are logically expected as part of the product package.

As for OS v Application writing and such, Jobs himself has stated that he moved people from different departments into the iPhone department, etc. Programmers at Apple, Inc. are surely proficient in enough programming language to move around the company as needed. The delay in Leopard due to Apple's need in programmers for the OS in iPhone is a prime example of the software delays Apple has faced.

Ok, this is over kill, I made a passing comment that has been over analyzed, it's a bit silly. It's just a friggin' phone. In the end, the world turns. ;)

oogje
Sep 17, 2007, 11:11 PM
They needed the OS people. That is a different group. Writing an operating system is quite a bit different from writing applications.

Considering how overloaded iTunes has become, I'm thinking the next major version of Mac OS will in fact be iTunes.

nateco
Sep 17, 2007, 11:13 PM
My harddrive is still hosed.


Trying to run disk warrior now......


The thing just sorta makes a chug chug sound....nothing is normal..


What the heck should I do.

snook911
Sep 17, 2007, 11:29 PM
Anyone know if the update took out iphoneringtonemaker.com afraid to update until i here something. I know makeiphoneringtone is not working but i use iphoneringtonemaker.

spetykowski
Sep 17, 2007, 11:36 PM
Anyone know if the update took out iphoneringtonemaker.com afraid to update until i here something. I know makeiphoneringtone is not working but i use iphoneringtonemaker.


i updated and i use iphoneringtonemaker i did not have any issues with it... synced perfectly...!

Whistleway
Sep 17, 2007, 11:38 PM
Damn, Apple is the new M$ of music :(

Whistleway
Sep 17, 2007, 11:42 PM
iTunes 7.4.3 released.

This iTunes update tackles issues with people still enjoying their iPhones.

Apples says this new release will charge you $0.99 not only for a custom ringtone, but will charge an extra $0.99 when ever a phone call is received when using that ringtone.

Ha ha.,, good one!

JPyre
Sep 17, 2007, 11:43 PM
Actually, I am an artist on iTunes Music Store and I make 70 cents per song, but not when so many people are peer sharing [my songs] for free. It may not be a big deal to the superstars making millions, but this is part of my bread and butter; it's how I live, and it does hurt when I see that my albums/songs are being ripped more than they are being bought.


Ummm.. I guess you're too young or naive, but do you not play live?
The record industry is only 100 years old, iTunes 6 years old. How did artists make money for thousands of years before recorded music? By playing live.
It may hurt your feelings that people rip your stuff but you need to go back to basics if recorded music is part of what you depend on to make money. Sorry.

In the words of Steve Jobs...
We don't believe it's possible to protect digital content...What's new is this amazingly efficient distribution system for stolen property called the Internet -- and no one's gonna shut down the Internet. And it only takes one stolen copy to be on the Internet. And the way we expressed it to them is: Pick one lock -- open every door. It only takes one person to pick a lock. Worst case: Somebody just takes the analog outputs of their CD player and rerecords it -- puts it on the Internet. You'll never stop that. So what you have to do is compete with it."

Compete with it. Play live.

PCMacUser
Sep 17, 2007, 11:46 PM
Wow, Apple lasted a whole 11 days before having to release an update of iTunes... what next, a fortnight? Or is that wishful thinking...

gwangung
Sep 17, 2007, 11:59 PM
Code is code. If that were the case why did Jobs state that they did move OS people over to the iPhone, in writing the OS for the device as well as the accompanying software to run it on the machine (iTunes)?

Applications or OS, it's all the same when it comes to programming languages and types. Most programmers can easily move from one to the other.

Sorry, but that just doesn't sound right.

Code is code, but use of code is context dependent, testing of code is context dependent. Explain to me how it isn't with respect to applications and operating systems.

megfilmworks
Sep 18, 2007, 12:12 AM
Ummm.. I guess you're too young or naive, but do you not play live?
The record industry is only 100 years old, iTunes 6 years old. How did artists make money for thousands of years before recorded music? By playing live.
It may hurt your feelings that people rip your stuff but you need to go back to basics if recorded music is part of what you depend on to make money. Sorry.

In the words of Steve Jobs...


Compete with it. Play live.
That is a very naive statement and shows that you lack knowledge of the current state of the music business. There is no money in playing live, bands regularly loose money (unless you are a mega group). The only reason they play live is because they love it, want to connect with the fans, and hope to sell a few songs to them, either on cd or downloads. Not have them stolen by their fans. They have agents and record labels stealing enough. Give them a break. People who steal music are worse than the record labels.

synth3tik
Sep 18, 2007, 12:17 AM
That is a very naive statement and shows that you lack knowledge of the current state of the music business. There is no money in playing live, bands regularly loose money (unless you are a mega group). The only reason they play live is because they love it, want to connect with the fans, and hope to sell a few songs to them, either on cd or downloads. Not have them stolen by their fans. They have agents and record labels stealing enough. Give them a break. People who steal music are worse than the record labels.


????????

Thats how you make money. The money comes from live shows and merch.

hermes369
Sep 18, 2007, 12:22 AM
So, I have some friends who were in a band that kids would recognize. They had to buy their songs back from their label.

Here's the thing: consumers have spoken about how they want to get their music: through iTunes or similar service. They want what they want when they want it. Napster, most famously opened the door and the ubiquity of iTunes made it legal. The labels, and now a major network, have said, "consumer be damned."

The ringtones thing is particularly annoying. How many times do I have to buy the same thing? It's been said before; but bears repeating. What's the difference between my hitting the play button and having a portion of the song play programatically? Revenue streams. Only, what about a recording of myself on the piano I own? What about a composition in any of Apple's own authoring environments? In other words, this ringtone thing is complete BS. It's a crappy move on Apple's part.

phytonix
Sep 18, 2007, 12:25 AM
Stealing music is a phrase invented by music industry.
Sharing music and enjoy them without paying or consent of the artist is the actual words.

Music is something cannot be stolen. The record company and artist always have the song no matter how many people so called "steal" it.

jediistar
Sep 18, 2007, 12:50 AM
That is a very naive statement and shows that you lack knowledge of the current state of the music business. There is no money in playing live, bands regularly loose money (unless you are a mega group). The only reason they play live is because they love it, want to connect with the fans, and hope to sell a few songs to them, either on cd or downloads. Not have them stolen by their fans. They have agents and record labels stealing enough. Give them a break. People who steal music are worse than the record labels.

Wow man, thats not just wrong, but WAY wrong! You must not read the end of year articles stating what bands made for touring....60-70 million isn't very far off these days for larger bands such ass Rolling Stones or hell even Nsync made 75 million one year. You think they make that much on the few points they make on cd sales??? Thats not only wrong, its laughable man. Come on, don't claim to have such a benevolent position on the music industry without at least fact checking.

You can't say there is no money in playing music, then flip around and say well only if you are a mega band. You think they are the only ones making more money on tour than other bands? Unless we are talking about a local band who plays to crowds of 50-100 then yes of course there is no money in touring but thats not the type of groups or the types of music quality we are discussing.

elgruga
Sep 18, 2007, 01:38 AM
(a) to download the update

(b) WAY too scared to let my iphone (unlocked on rogers in canada and working so fine) ANYWHERE near this thing. (yes, I know its illogical, Spock)

(c) dont care about ringtones anyway, except....

(d) where is the ringtone featured in the iPhone ads? Its not on my iPhone.

God of Biscuits
Sep 18, 2007, 02:04 AM
Code is code. If that were the case why did Jobs state that they did move OS people over to the iPhone, in writing the OS for the device as well as the accompanying software to run it on the machine (iTunes)?

Applications or OS, it's all the same when it comes to programming languages and types. Most programmers can easily move from one to the other.

Languages can be similar or they can be vastly different. Each has their strengths in expressing ideas, much like spoken and written human languages. Don't believe me? Can you read sheet music? If not, why not? If so, take the same song on the sheet music and use English to express exactly (and all) the information on the pages of the sheet music.

OS's are vastly different than Applications. OS's don't have user interfaces. Applications don't have to deal with hardware directly. Optimizations are vastly different in OS's and Applications.

You clearly aren't a developer. If you think you can, write yourself an OS for a Mac or an iPhone using nothing but Applescript. Or Hypercard.

koobcamuk
Sep 18, 2007, 02:08 AM
People who steal music are worse than the record labels.

:rolleyes:

Life's tough, huh?

I think this has a lot to do with iPhone in the UK.

shadowmoses
Sep 18, 2007, 02:12 AM
Does anyone know if this update messes with *unlocked* iPhones?

ShadoW

moki
Sep 18, 2007, 02:15 AM
I think this has a lot to do with iPhone in the UK. People here are very used to making their own ringtones... I wonder how they'll react when everyone is supposed to have the same one. :eek:


Same with people in the USA. Much to the chagrin of some... :)

matticus008
Sep 18, 2007, 02:24 AM
Stealing music is a phrase invented by music industry.
Sharing music and enjoy them without paying or consent of the artist is the actual words.
Without paying or consent. Gee, what's wrong there...

They have the natural and legal right to create something and sell it under terms and restrictions they decide--you have no natural right to the labor of others and aren't being forced into the agreement by anyone or any specific need. If they say "we'll offer this download for $1" and those terms are recognized as legal, they are legitimately and legally owed $1 for each and every download. If 50,000 people download without paying, they are owed $50,000. It doesn't matter whether the supply is greater than the maximum possible demand.
Music is something cannot be stolen.
Nonsense. Stealing is an act committed by a person, not a crime suffered by a victim.

Taking something that isn't yours to take is stealing. That's the long and the short of it.

You can throw out any arguments you like: that it's not immoral, that you wouldn't have paid for it regardless to they're not "really" losing money, that the labels are mean and they deserve it, or what have you. But own up to the decision: it isn't yours, it's being offered for certain terms, and you're refusing to accept those terms and taking it anyway. That's stealing. Saying otherwise might help you sleep at night, but it doesn't change a thing.

Scottgfx
Sep 18, 2007, 02:54 AM
That's because I don't think john lennon would like to have his songs exploited on cell phones and other various devices.

"While My Guitar Gently Weeps" was a George Harrison song.

donlphi
Sep 18, 2007, 03:12 AM
Without paying or consent. Gee, what's wrong there...

They have the natural and legal right to create something and sell it under terms and restrictions they decide--you have no natural right to the labor of others and aren't being forced into the agreement by anyone or any specific need. If they say "we'll offer this download for $1" and those terms are recognized as legal, they are legitimately and legally owed $1 for each and every download. If 50,000 people download without paying, they are owed $50,000. It doesn't matter whether the supply is greater than the maximum possible demand.

Nonsense. Stealing is an act committed by a person, not a crime suffered by a victim.

Taking something that isn't yours to take is stealing. That's the long and the short of it.

You can throw out any arguments you like: that it's not immoral, that you wouldn't have paid for it regardless to they're not "really" losing money, that the labels are mean and they deserve it, or what have you. But own up to the decision: it isn't yours, it's being offered for certain terms, and you're refusing to accept those terms and taking it anyway. That's stealing. Saying otherwise might help you sleep at night, but it doesn't change a thing.

I agree with you 100%. This same guy that said "It's okay to share music" is the same guy that would write a book and say "It's not okay to photo copy it and distribute it for free"

It's the same thing. TRULY sharing "back in the day" was giving somebody an album and letting them listen to it for a while. After a week, they would return it and either 1. BUY IT or 2. FORGET ABOUT IT.

If I share a book, I let somebody borrow it, I don't scan it and post it on a website for all to print.

I would even go as far as saying stealing (file sharing) music is worse than stealing a physical book because you probably won't read the book but a couple of times. Most songs stay with you forever.

---------- ON THE OTHER HAND $.99 IS A RIP-OFF TO PAY FOR THE RIGHT TO LISTEN TO A PORTION OF A TUNE I PURCHASED ALREADY. $.01 is too much. It's like charging you extra for the right to listen to the last 30 seconds of a song only, or stopping a song early. TOTAL BS. APPLE SHOULD GO TO HELL FOR THAT.

Just a thought. :D

motulist
Sep 18, 2007, 03:25 AM
Copying music without paying for it is not right. Way overcharging consumers for music and trying to unfairly control the music industry through monopolistic business practices is at least as equally not right.

As long as the music companies are unethically trying to control the entire music industry then the consumer is justified in taking back control of the music that legally and ethically is theirs.

Shagrat
Sep 18, 2007, 03:34 AM
... In the end, the world turns. ;)

Er... most likely, in the end, the world will actually stop turning...:D

SthrnCmfrtr
Sep 18, 2007, 06:26 AM
Anyone know if they allow you to specify, whether in menu options or by aliases that iTunes actually #$%^ing recognizes, where to put movies and TV shows? (hahhahahaha dream on)

stealthboy
Sep 18, 2007, 07:26 AM
Wow man, thats not just wrong, but WAY wrong! You must not read the end of year articles stating what bands made for touring....60-70 million isn't very far off these days for larger bands such ass Rolling Stones or hell even Nsync made 75 million one year.


True, most of the money comes from concerts. U2 grossed $333 mil with their Vertigo Tour alone. Their album from that year sold around 15 million copies, with *maybe* $1 for each going to the artist. Just some interesting numbers to compare...

10-Dee-Q
Sep 18, 2007, 07:29 AM
i just wanna share my views on "stealing Song" on internet.
for me , myself, i always try to find free download on the net for latest music,
but if after i listened to it and i like it alot, i'll buy the original CD and ripped it to my iTunes library.
Why ???
cause i want to be certain that i have the best sounding quality of a song that i really like it. And also because i like the song / album so much that i sincerelly feel that i need to buy/have their original CD.

I never buy songs from iTunes though cause their ripping quality is quite bad.
i only bought music video but i was pissed cause i can;'t compiled them on DVD for my own personal use :(

And i also think that apple is going "MS" way by charging for a ringtone ???
c'mon apple, don't use such a "cheap" way to produce more income,
Otherwise you will lose your "followers"
and i thought your motto is "be different" but i feel that apple is going "similar" with MS :(

goosnarrggh
Sep 18, 2007, 07:37 AM
Especially since it is not at all clear that copying a song for which I have a license (from a CD, for example) to another device to play it (legal), but that it happens to be a ring tone is illegal. In fact, I thought that there was a provision in one of the many copyright acts which forbade interfering with an end user's "fair use" rights, of which I believe this is one. Any lawyers out there who know something about the existing copyright laws?

If Apple is interfering with Fair Use, and that action is forbidden, I expect the suit to be filed any day now. (when monkeys fly out of my nether regions).

Eddie O

IANAL. So this post is worth less than the electrons it took to make it.

The argument put forward by the music industry has been that ring tones do not constitute "fair use". Not even if you ripped the music from a CD. They consider ring tones to be "public performances".

Well, conceivably, if you could guarantee that your phone would only ever ring while you're in your own private dwelling or while you're completely alone or surrounded only by immediate family, then it would be a fair use.

Heck, they've also put forward the idea that playing loud music on your car stereo with the windows rolled down is a public performance and not permitted by fair use.

That argument carries considerable doubt because of the wording of copyright laws in the USA, which seem to indicate that public performances without prior written permission of the copyright holder are only violations of the copyright holder's exclusive rights if you are charging admission for the privilege of listening to the music, or, in situations like restaurants, if you are playing music to create an "atmosphere" while patrons pay for an unrelated primary product or service. (It's actually more complicated than that. Read it (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#110) if you like.)

However, other sections of the law seem to dictate that, even if certain public performances without prior written permission aren't, in themselves, infringements of copyright, you may still be on the hook for royalty payments after the fact depending on the particular circumstances of the performance, if the copyright holder learns about them.

Apple may well be trying to protect itself from being sued for unintentionally providing a mechanism which facilitates public performances without royalty payments. I thought the Sony Beta trials established that a VCR manufacturer cannot be held responsible for the copyright violations undertaken by its users, and that a similar principle would extend to Apple in this case, but hey, I may be wrong.

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 09:30 AM
Sorry, but that just doesn't sound right.

Code is code, but use of code is context dependent, testing of code is context dependent. Explain to me how it isn't with respect to applications and operating systems.

Ugh, I really don't care, this whole thing is just ridiculous, get over it. :rolleyes:

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 09:37 AM
Languages can be similar or they can be vastly different. Each has their strengths in expressing ideas, much like spoken and written human languages. Don't believe me? Can you read sheet music? If not, why not? If so, take the same song on the sheet music and use English to express exactly (and all) the information on the pages of the sheet music.

OS's are vastly different than Applications. OS's don't have user interfaces. Applications don't have to deal with hardware directly. Optimizations are vastly different in OS's and Applications.

You clearly aren't a developer. If you think you can, write yourself an OS for a Mac or an iPhone using nothing but Applescript. Or Hypercard.

LOL people. I made A comment. That is all. No, I'm not a developer so yes, I do not know. I was basing my statement on Jobs' comment on why Leopard was delayed and the fact that he hasn't hired extra people to work on the iPhone, but rather moved people from other departments within Apple, hence the lack of manpower on Leopard. Due to that fact, I simply made a logical conclusion that Apple is probably taking manpower away from other software development teams to address people not paying for ringtones.

Now, can we please let this horse die in peace? :rolleyes:

macridah
Sep 18, 2007, 09:47 AM
I holding out on any updates that don't allow me to use my custom ringtone.

gwangung
Sep 18, 2007, 09:58 AM
Wow man, thats not just wrong, but WAY wrong! You must not read the end of year articles stating what bands made for touring....60-70 million isn't very far off these days for larger bands such ass Rolling Stones or hell even Nsync made 75 million one year. You think they make that much on the few points they make on cd sales??? Thats not only wrong, its laughable man. Come on, don't claim to have such a benevolent position on the music industry without at least fact checking.

You can't say there is no money in playing music, then flip around and say well only if you are a mega band. You think they are the only ones making more money on tour than other bands? Unless we are talking about a local band who plays to crowds of 50-100 then yes of course there is no money in touring but thats not the type of groups or the types of music quality we are discussing.

No, I don't think that's wrong at all.

The experiences of the outliers do not falsify the experiences of the majority.

And the majority of music makers, the majority of people who are represented on iTunes are NOT the same as U2 or other group whose albums sell in the millions.

(You DID note that the person you were replying to had cuts on iTunes....)

Jetson
Sep 18, 2007, 10:02 AM
This latest update of iTunes to version 7.4.2 is just what I was looking for.

My iPod Classic was not syncing properly, and the 1.0 software was buggy, slow, menus disorganized, etc. Well I tried to apply the 1.01 update to my iPod, but everytime iTunes tried to do so, the iPod would automatically eject before the downloaded software was loaded. iTunes would say the update failed because the iPod could not be found. Needless to say I spent several hours on this fruitless task, mainly because the update process is sooooo slow and the iPod software just creeps along.

iTunes 7.4.2 fixed the update problem because it remounts the iPod after downloading the new software. Everything went fine and now I'm enjoying the iPod 1.01 update. This improved the interface somewhat, but there is still a lot of work to be done. The response time, though faster is still a bit ponderous. Some playlists are not in the order that they are on iTunes. Coverflow album art takes forever to display and is therefore useless.

Still, I like my new iPod Classic and these software updates are a step in the right direction.

:)

smallduck
Sep 18, 2007, 10:16 AM
Sorry to veer off-topic but I can't let this be the last word on this tangent:
OS's are vastly different than Applications. OS's don't have user interfaces. Applications don't have to deal with hardware directly. Optimizations are vastly different in OS's and Applications.

You clearly aren't a developer. If you think you can, write yourself an OS for a Mac or an iPhone using nothing but Applescript. Or Hypercard.

5 minute major for a strawman argument with intent to insult ;^)

Sure OS's have user interfaces. The Finder, Dock, Utilites, etc. aren't part of the OS? Maybe you're thinking just of kernel development, easy mistake. Mac OS development (standard or iPhone flavor) can include work in any of these areas (its early here, forgive whatever omissions):
mach
I/O Kit & device drivers
bsd layers
core service frameworks
high level frameworks
applications
scripting, installers, blah

General application development you usually do, like, the top 3 of those, simple as that. All of it is pretty much the same, and the thing that's least different are the languages: C/C++, Objective-C/Cocoa if you're lucky. Scripting languages are not too different either, really (Applescript being the weirdest). What differs most: the interfaces one codes to, the tools used. This "different coding language = hard" meme needs to stop.

Applications don't have to deal with hardware directly. OS code mostly doesn't either, mostly. Optimizations are vastly different in OS's and Applications. For the most part, I'd say: not so much. These specialty areas you suggest to be widespread are instead, from what I've seen & understand, fringe cases. And consider that there can exist specialty areas in any large codebase, app or OS. Granted, in an OS, certainly moreso.

But my point being: most OS development will be in some middle or high-level area where one is working on some feature implemented in terms of some API, and its pretty much all the same. Developers needing to be taken off the Leopard crunch to add ringtone subterfuge to iTunes & iPhone OS is not an unlikely story.

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 10:20 AM
Developers needing to be taken off the Leopard crunch to add ringtone subterfuge to iTunes & iPhone OS is not an unlikely story.

Thank you, you saved me a lot of effort. :D

CWallace
Sep 18, 2007, 10:39 AM
If it all wasn't so sad, it would almost be funny.

I am a licensed iToner user, as I could not get MakeiPhoneRingTone to work. However, it appears I had an out-of-date version so I downloaded the latest and it worked. Alas, I now had two versions of each ringtone on my iPhone.

Since having the ringtones listed in iTunes is nice, and iToner doesn't do that, I decided to restore my iPhone and use just MakeiPhoneRingTone to transfer my ringtones over.

So now I hear Apple has yet another update designed to break the latest version of MakeiPhoneRingTone. :rolleyes: :mad: :(

I can only assume that since ringtones transferred over with iToner do not show up in iTunes, I am guessing that Apple is continuing to modify the iTunes Ringtone database to break hacks. And I am guessing that iToner isn't using that database, so it's not being broken (so far).

At this point, I think I'll just sit on 7.4.1. It works fine for playing podcasts and music, which is all I ask of it. I have better things to do with my time then re-build my iPhone every week as Apple keeps trying to stay one step behind the hackers...

MikeTheC
Sep 18, 2007, 10:51 AM
The only thing I have to say to those here who disagree with how Apple limits your functional capabilities is this:

You shouldn't have bought the d--n thing in the first place. So now there you folks are, $4, $5- or even $600 poorer for having bought the iPhone, and you're whining and complaining about how Apple is being manipulative about their telecom platform. It's their platform to manipulate as they see fit, folks.

Now (speaking as someone who is a U.S. citizen who's thoroughly disgusted with what his country has turned into) when you stop to consider what is going on out there in Corporate America, we are all collectively at fault for not putting a stop to this years ago, but frankly we're all so seemingly divided and distracted over our own areas of personal responsibility that we can't see past the end of our collective noses.

The people who, in my view, are the ones doing the right thing are the people in the FSF/OSS movements and those associated with the EFF or other such groups. For my part, where possible I try my darndest to use FSF/OSS solutions. Sometimes, it simply isn't possible, and if I still choose to maintain that area of functionality, you won't hear me whining and complaining and incessantly bitching about the proprietary solution I've settled for. But, what you will see is my constant paying attention to whether or not an FSF/OSS solution comes along and whether it is sufficiently mature for my uses.

I use iTunes with the two iPods I own, and I do this because my current OS platform of choice is Tiger. I own the music players I own because I view them to be better solutions than anything else out there, and part of that is because they have no contraindicative limitations which would otherwise have the tendency to drive me elsewhere. I also run Tiger and not Linux (even though I physically could do so) because my Macs are all PPC based, and frankly Linux is just not as up-to-date supported on that architecture as it is on the x86 architecture. However, my eye is always and ever to the horizon when it comes to new hardware purchases, so time will tell.

In the meantime, people, do your homework and research before spending money on something. Studies have shown this is key to a better product ownership experience. ;)

shadowfax
Sep 18, 2007, 12:42 PM
Anyone know if they allow you to specify, whether in menu options or by aliases that iTunes actually #$%^ing recognizes, where to put movies and TV shows? (hahhahahaha dream on)

Well, you could always move your Movies directory to another hard drive manually and then place a soft-link to it in your Music directory. That's not too hard, But it would upset iTunes a lot (I think) if you didn't have the hard drive plugged in.

Jetson
Sep 18, 2007, 01:42 PM
We should probably take 99% of the posts in this thread and create a new iPhone miscellaneous whining thread.

No one is actually talking about the topic of this thread, the iTunes 7.4.2 update. That's what I want to hear about. I don't have an iPhone and couldn't care less about freaking ringtones. Sheesh!

lshaner
Sep 18, 2007, 01:54 PM
Last night I updated from 7.4.1 to 7.4.2. Nothing else changed on my Mac Mini (Intel Core 2 DUO) running Mac OS X 10.4.10.

I immediately found that none of my other computers nor my Apple TV could reach my shared music library, which is hosted by the Mac Mini.

I normally run with the firewall enabled and in fact the box is checked to allow iTunes music sharing. HOWEVER, since upgrading to iTunes 7.4.2, the firewall rule is somehow no longer sufficient.

I had to turn off the firewall in order for my other computers and the Apple TV to be able to reach my shared library on my Mac Mini.

Effectively, something has changed w.r.t. sharing in iTunes 7.4.2, such that the default firewall rules in Mac OS X 10.4.2 are no longer allowing clients to connect to the iTunes shared libraries.

skeep5
Sep 18, 2007, 02:05 PM
That's because I don't think john lennon would like to have his songs exploited on cell phones and other various devices.

Maybe he would've loved to hear "imagine" playing on every cell phone in the world, sharing the message he was trying to convey. Exploited? I think not.

edoates
Sep 18, 2007, 02:22 PM
Ummm.. I guess you're too young or naive, but do you not play live?
The record industry is only 100 years old, iTunes 6 years old. How did artists make money for thousands of years before recorded music? By playing live.
It may hurt your feelings that people rip your stuff but you need to go back to basics if recorded music is part of what you depend on to make money. Sorry.

In the words of Steve Jobs...


Compete with it. Play live.

There are many artists who don't perform but rather WRITE music and lyrics: if tunes are ripped, they don't get paid. The usual royalty (mechanical license) for a song is 9.2 cents per copy / download. So more than just the performers are harmed by illegal copying. But use of songs or parts of them as ringtones is another matter entirely as long as the original song was acquired legally.

Eddie O

n8ivg33k
Sep 18, 2007, 07:46 PM
I just updated the itunes with a non-hacked iPhone using iPhoneRingToneMaker for the pc.. and it still works with out any issues... you still have to manuelly go into iPhoneRingToneMaker and do there restore!!!

Do you know if the restore keeps the ringtones assigned to your contacts? I am afraid it will reset all my contacts ringtones back to Marimba!!:)

rwross
Sep 18, 2007, 08:45 PM
iPRTM does seem to restore the ringtone to your assigned contacts if you do not open settings or contacts first.

Here's my guess at what's going on. When you open settings->sounds or open any contact, the iPhone validates that the sound you have assigned is, in fact, on the phone. If it's not there, Welcome to Marimba.

Soo..if you Sync with iTunes and then immediately loadt iPRTM and do a restore, then you place the ringtones back before the iPhone goes looking for them.

Anyway...that's my guess. YMMV and I have not confirmed this works with 7.4.2 because i'm still clinging to 7.4.1 in the false hope that Apple realizes that most people want to be able to make at least one ringtone that isn't part of their meager collection of ringtones.

/begin sarcasm

That said, since the ringtone for my son is one of his Band's original works, I think Apple should either let me put that back on my phone or find him a record deal so that he can sell it on iTunes and I can happily pay my $1.98.

/end sarcasm

/resume being pissed off

Mr. Zorg
Sep 19, 2007, 02:29 AM
I don't know why things aren't working for some, but fwiw I was able to use Ringtonator to add tones with 7.4.2. One thing I noticed though, is that it does not seem to work if the filename is the same as something already in your library. But as soon as I change the name, it loads just fine.

matias1021
Sep 19, 2007, 03:47 AM
so i download the Itunes update..and now Itunes doesnt recognize my IPod...it charges but the Ipod thing doesnt show...:confused:

MikeTheC
Sep 19, 2007, 10:47 AM
That's easy for you to say.you have a Tardis!
:p

Well... For obvious reasons, it isn't something I like to admit to publicly, but yeah...

And wait until you guys see iTunes 9.0. Man, it is the ******.

But if anyone ever asks, you *never* heard me mention anything about three-dimensional holographic screen savers or multi-touch on your, um... never mind. :)

shadowfax
Sep 19, 2007, 11:03 AM
No one is actually talking about the topic of this thread, the iTunes 7.4.2 update. That's what I want to hear about. I don't have an iPhone and couldn't care less about freaking ringtones. Sheesh!

That's all there is to this--ringtones. Apple "fixed a bug" with iTunes plus songs not being ringtonable. And they broke all the DIY ringtone methods, and only iToner and that other shareware ringtone software appears to work anymore.

What do you want to know about 7.4.2? It's been like 10 days since the last update, how much do you think they added? iTunes 7.4.2 adds zero functionality to a computer with no iPhone. Really, iTunes 7.4 adds nothing to a computer without an iPhone. So what are you waiting for? Someone to post in about an "Easter Egg" in iTunes 7.4.2 that makes you coffee and toast in the morning?

CWallace
Sep 19, 2007, 11:10 AM
No one is actually talking about the topic of this thread, the iTunes 7.4.2 update. That's what I want to hear about. I don't have an iPhone and couldn't care less about freaking ringtones. Sheesh!

All the changes to iTunes 7.4.2 were to support and deny ringtones on the iPhone. It fixed some bugs with Apple's official iTunes ringtones and broke some hacks with unofficial ringtones.

If you don't have an iPhone, iTunes 7.4.2. offers nothing - functionally or codewise. No reason to download it, much less install it.

puckhead193
Sep 19, 2007, 11:42 AM
:eek: i hate my school's connection

CJD2112
Sep 19, 2007, 11:54 AM
In the meantime, people, do your homework and research before spending money on something. Studies have shown this is key to a better product ownership experience. ;)

Agreed. However, at the time I purchased my iPhone (before ringtones) there was no official word on ringtone capability. So, of course owners would find a way to make use of their own ringtones. It wasn't until Apple announced owners had to pay another $.99 that people became irate.

So, in this instance there wasn't much to research and it is fair to assume people got shafted (just a weeeee bit). :o

CJD2112
Sep 19, 2007, 11:55 AM
:eek: i hate my school's connection

lol WOW. Where in Boston are ya at? Used to live in Boston, South End, almost ten years ago (wow, that makes me a little sad, time flies lol).

puckhead193
Sep 19, 2007, 12:19 PM
lol WOW. Where in Boston are ya at? Used to live in Boston, South End, almost ten years ago (wow, that makes me a little sad, time flies lol).

well not in boston, Milton to be more exact

Jetson
Sep 19, 2007, 12:50 PM
That's all there is to this--ringtones. Apple "fixed a bug" with iTunes plus songs not being ringtonable. And they broke all the DIY ringtone methods, and only iToner and that other shareware ringtone software appears to work anymore.

What do you want to know about 7.4.2? It's been like 10 days since the last update, how much do you think they added? iTunes 7.4.2 adds zero functionality to a computer with no iPhone. Really, iTunes 7.4 adds nothing to a computer without an iPhone. So what are you waiting for? Someone to post in about an "Easter Egg" in iTunes 7.4.2 that makes you coffee and toast in the morning?

You are wrong iPhone breath! :D

As I posted earlier, the 7.4.2 update fixed the problem where the iPod Classic software could not be updated from 1.0 to 1.01

What's new in this version:
Addresses an issue with creating ringtones using iTunes Plus song purchases and includes bug fixes to improve stability and performance.

I want to know about the other bug fixes - I mentioned one which improved the functionality of my iPod Classic. What else is there?

MikeTheC
Sep 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
Agreed. However, at the time I purchased my iPhone (before ringtones) there was no official word on ringtone capability. So, of course owners would find a way to make use of their own ringtones. It wasn't until Apple announced owners had to pay another $.99 that people became irate.

So, in this instance there wasn't much to research and it is fair to assume people got shafted (just a weeeee bit). :o

Ok, fine, fair enough.

But let me ask: did it occur to anyone prior to or at the time of purchase to ask about ringtone customizability? I would think if I were going to spend that kind of money on a phone I'd want to fully understand all of it's capabilities.

Then, either I would have said "Yes, I want this" or "No, I don't want this." Frankly, it's as simple as that.

My current phone, for example, is a Samsung M610. It supports custom digitized ringtones, but you either have to buy them or move heaven and earth to get your own stuff on there. However, I also only paid something in the viscinity of about $60 after the deal on signing up for a new contract, and as this is one tenth as much as most of you folks spent on your phones, I don't really feel all that bad about it.

Besides, my phone has actual speech recognition on it, and it has (although it's only 2GB at a time) removable flash media storage (microSD, to be specific). Does yours?

Besides, WiFi on a phone? It's nice, but the only time I have any real access to WiFi, I also more-or-less by definition have direct access to my own computer(s), so really, what's the point?

CJD2112
Sep 19, 2007, 02:55 PM
Ok, fine, fair enough.

But let me ask: did it occur to anyone prior to or at the time of purchase to ask about ringtone customizability? I would think if I were going to spend that kind of money on a phone I'd want to fully understand all of it's capabilities.

Then, either I would have said "Yes, I want this" or "No, I don't want this." Frankly, it's as simple as that.

My current phone, for example, is a Samsung M610. It supports custom digitized ringtones, but you either have to buy them or move heaven and earth to get your own stuff on there. However, I also only paid something in the viscinity of about $60 after the deal on signing up for a new contract, and as this is one tenth as much as most of you folks spent on your phones, I don't really feel all that bad about it.

Besides, my phone has actual speech recognition on it, and it has (although it's only 2GB at a time) removable flash media storage (microSD, to be specific). Does yours?

Besides, WiFi on a phone? It's nice, but the only time I have any real access to WiFi, I also more-or-less by definition have direct access to my own computer(s), so really, what's the point?

Ok, so you obviously have a beef with the iPhone, I'm not going to defend it. I like it. I had a RAZR on Verizon and then Cingular, and Cingular allowed full ObEx support to download/upload pics and ringtones. The iPhone doesn't, but as you know it has a lot more than the RAZR or the Samsung phone you currently own. There's no dispute about that.

As for asking about ringtones, of course I did (and many others). However, as most Apple owners know, Apple takes the stance of "We don't know" on any product unless it has been officially announced. I bought my phone back in the city where my friend happens to be a general manager of the Apple SoHo store, even he couldn't tell me about ringtones. No one could. It could have gone either way, however I do not believe most people thought Apple would charge the same price for a 30-second clip of a song that is already owned. Regardless, there was no way to make any certain assumption about future information on the iPhone nor was information given regarding ringtone functionality. At the time of purchase, it would have been reasonable to assume there would be free ringtone's for songs already owned, or at least the ability to make you own and download them at will. This is the case for my Cingular/ATT RAZR and other bluetooth ObEx phones on Att's network.

It seems like you really have a problem with the iPhone and people who own it. Why? If you don't like the comments, just move on and read another thread. As most people have stated on this topic, the main issue with update 7.4.2 was the elimination of custom ringtones. If that topic bothers, I'm sorry, but criticizing people for purchasing the iPhone and discussing it online is pointless.

funkypepper
Sep 19, 2007, 05:15 PM
Well I'm not downloading this.


let me add my signature under this message.

matticus008
Sep 19, 2007, 06:50 PM
No one could. It could have gone either way
Exactly, and since no statements were made to indicate the possibility, you can have no reasonable reliance. The default assumption is "no, that features does not exist" unless there is evidence given to the contrary.

I'm not disagreeing with the substance of your post, but merely illustrating the danger of unfounded assumption. You can't buy a product with the thought that "maybe one day it will do more than it does right now" and rely on that purely on internal belief.

To do so would invite nothing but disappointment. Business is a game of minimums.
At the time of purchase, it would have been reasonable to assume there would be free ringtone's for songs already owned, or at least the ability to make you own and download them at will.
Not really, no.

You certainly can use your own ringtones if you can get them to the phone. That much is clear and remains true. You can reasonably expect that if you put a file of a supported file type in the appropriate directory, you can use it as a ringtone. You can't extrapolate from there anything further--particularly since it doesn't support OBEX and doesn't have any kind of file browser, and that any custom ringtone service from a company would tend not to be free.

CJD2112
Sep 19, 2007, 10:23 PM
Exactly, and since no statements were made to indicate the possibility, you can have no reasonable reliance. The default assumption is "no, that features does not exist" unless there is evidence given to the contrary.

I'm not disagreeing with the substance of your post, but merely illustrating the danger of unfounded assumption. You can't buy a product with the thought that "maybe one day it will do more than it does right now" and rely on that purely on internal belief.

To do so would invite nothing but disappointment. Business is a game of minimums.

Not really, no.

You certainly can use your own ringtones if you can get them to the phone. That much is clear and remains true. You can reasonably expect that if you put a file of a supported file type in the appropriate directory, you can use it as a ringtone. You can't extrapolate from there anything further--particularly since it doesn't support OBEX and doesn't have any kind of file browser, and that any custom ringtone service from a company would tend not to be free.

Um, sorry, no. As a Cingular customer before the iPhone, my RAZR had ObEx that Cingular/ATT did NOT cripple, and they fully allowed the use of free (yes, FREE) custom ringtones. Also, when asked, no one at Apple knew if the bluetooth ObEx on the iPhone was crippled, nor did they know if there would be any ringtone option in the future. As the phone had Bluetooth, it's a fair assumption to make that ObEx may be enabled at the time of purchase. FAIR assumption. Further, it COULD have gone EITHER WAY, as no official decision for or against ringtones had been announced. As I bought the phone when it was first released, Apple had not made any decision. Some at Apple said ringtones could be free, or purchased, or not available at all. In the case assuming does NOT make an ass out of u and me (sorry, couldn't resist).

Of course, there would be a way to get ringtones on the phone. Hell, a 17 year old senior in high school was one of the first to crack it open. Any monkey who is fairly computer literate in programing could figure it out. So, I was right to assume that free ringtones would be on the iPhone, wasn't I? ;)

Oh, and lastly, your argument that it might one day do something it doesn't currently is EXACTLY why the iPhone was produced and marketed. It's a SOFTWARE driven device, and Jobs himself has stated that there are software updates along the way that would enable certain features/programs on the iPhone in the near future. From the horses mouth. So, based on that fact it is a safe assumption to make that the iPhone will do certain things that it didn't at the time of purchase (third party app's are currently doing so). Case in point: ringtones.

Now, aside from all this, what is the point in this debate? It's a little moot isn't it?

megfilmworks
Sep 19, 2007, 10:55 PM
Anyone notice their ringtone icons vanishing in your iTunes library. The column is their, but only ringtones still have icons. Still see them in the store. I can make a ringtone out of a song that I know had the ringtone icon yesterday. But can't seem to make the icons come back on my purchased songs. (7.4.2)

matticus008
Sep 19, 2007, 11:04 PM
Also, when asked, no one at Apple knew if the bluetooth ObEx on the iPhone was crippled
It's not crippled; it's nonexistent.
Further, it COULD have gone EITHER WAY, as no official decision for or against ringtones had been announced.
Yes, exactly. But from a practical perspective, you have to assume it won't happen until you're given proof otherwise. You can't put yourself into a position of buying a product based on what you one day hope it might do.
It's a SOFTWARE driven device, and Jobs himself has stated that there are software updates along the way that would enable certain features/programs on the iPhone in the near future. From the horses mouth.
You cannot make assumptions about what those might be, is the point. The only thing that is guaranteed when you buy something is what it does at that point in time. If you buy something merely hoping that something specific will be added to it, you're setting yourself up to be angry in the future.

Yes, he said there would be "more" in the future. It might or might not be free, it might or might not be useful, it might or might not be released on a second-generation product. There can be no reliance on anything, because you haven't been promised anything concrete. He might have been talking about the WiFi music store and nothing else--to assume an implication for ongoing additions is not a good idea, even if you and I both consider it likely to happen.

It's dangerous to make an unfounded assumption, as you did, about adding OBEX or iTunes support for free ringtones. It also has the tendency of ratcheting up expectations on easily excitable boards like this, which results in tantrums when the flights of fancy don't materialize.

megfilmworks
Sep 19, 2007, 11:10 PM
Wow man, thats not just wrong, but WAY wrong! You must not read the end of year articles stating what bands made for touring....60-70 million isn't very far off these days for larger bands such ass Rolling Stones or hell even Nsync made 75 million one year. You think they make that much on the few points they make on cd sales??? Thats not only wrong, its laughable man. Come on, don't claim to have such a benevolent position on the music industry without at least fact checking.

The facts are, the majority of recording artists who tour or play live do not make money. It costs a fortune to tour. They are promoting their music in hopes that their loyal fans will buy a copy and enjoy it. Just like most actors who struggle to make a living. Don't believe everything you hear on EXTRA or read in the STAR. You mention two of the biggest grossing acts of all time and you think that is the majority? My facts come from experience.

CJD2112
Sep 19, 2007, 11:33 PM
It's dangerous to make an unfounded assumption, as you did, about adding OBEX or iTunes support for free ringtones.

Dangerous? No, it's dangerous to put your hand in a blender. It's logical to conclude that the iPhone will have features added as JOB'S HIMSELF SAID SO. :rolleyes:

Taylor C
Sep 21, 2007, 08:46 PM
Does this update break/remove ringtones already made/synced?

CWallace
Sep 22, 2007, 01:56 PM
Does this update break/remove ringtones already made/synced?

If they're from the iTunes Store - no.

If they're not from the iTunes Store - depends.

iToner appears to be safe, but MakeiPhoneRingtones is not.

Mr. Zorg
Sep 22, 2007, 02:59 PM
I don't know why things aren't working for some, but fwiw I was able to use Ringtonator to add tones with 7.4.2. One thing I noticed though, is that it does not seem to work if the filename is the same as something already in your library. But as soon as I change the name, it loads just fine.

BTW, I don't know what crack I was smoking that day. I had 7.4.1 (2), not 7.4.2! Yes, 7.4.2 does NOT work...

smartalco
Sep 26, 2007, 05:13 PM
What's new in this version:
Addresses an issue with creating ringtones using iTunes Plus song purchases and includes bug fixes to improve stability and performance.

pssh, improve stability and performance my ***, it won't even launch on my PB G4

i had to get 7.4.1 back from a friend who hadn't updated yet (yes, i tried reinstalling, restarting, repairing permissions, along with several things that don't actually make sense)