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lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 07:30 AM
in this link : http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/19/iphone-confirmed-for-t-mobile-germany/

Engadget says that T-mobile and Apple have a deal, but the data-plans aren't known



MacRumors
Sep 19, 2007, 07:45 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/09/19iphone.html) that they have partnered with T-Mobile to be the exclusive German carrier of the Apple iPhone.
"We're thrilled to be partnering with T-Mobile to bring the iPhone to Germany," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "Customer response to iPhone in the US has been incredible, and we can't wait to introduce T-Mobile customers to the most revolutionary mobile device on the planet."
The iPhone will go on sale on November 9th through Telekom Shops of Deutsche Telekom and the T-Mobile web shop. iPhone requires a new 2-year T-Mobile tariff and will be available in an 8GB model for €399 including V.A.T.

More information has been posted (http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/) to t-mobile.de.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/19/apple-announces-iphone-in-germany/)

Asar
Sep 19, 2007, 07:50 AM
Sweet, now update us!

Merkuryy
Sep 19, 2007, 07:50 AM
nnnnnn,looks like nothing special in the Europe market.We have to see when the 1th million iPhone is sold for a further discussion

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 07:50 AM
Sweet, now update us!

yes very very fast, maybe the update will come on nov 9

Darkroom
Sep 19, 2007, 07:51 AM
so it seems November 9th is shaping up to be the the released date for all European countries getting the iPhone... would be nice if they announced Canada to receive the device on the same day... Christmas shopping season is quickly approaching... say it with me now... caaannnn - aaaaaaaa - dddaaaaaaaa.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 07:52 AM
so it seems November 9th is shaping up to be the the released date for all European countries getting the iPhone...

probably tomorrow France with Orange

MrFrankly
Sep 19, 2007, 07:52 AM
€399 - just while the Euro is almost going at $1.40.

Plumbstone
Sep 19, 2007, 07:53 AM
Let the moaning begin....

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 07:53 AM
€399 - just while the Euro is almost going at $1.40.

it's really not fair the prices, but remember the VAT it included and in America it isn't..

decimortis
Sep 19, 2007, 07:57 AM
Congrats to everyone getting the iPhone in their regions.
Now toss a little of that love to the Canucks!

bravedeer
Sep 19, 2007, 07:58 AM
...saying that the update will come in Nov or Oct... Jobs said in the last event it's coming by the end of this month. ENOUGH ALREADY ;)

Cuckoo
Sep 19, 2007, 07:58 AM
I think i might be getting one in germany (or england wherever i am first) and make mine vodafone compatible

fastbite
Sep 19, 2007, 07:58 AM
The UK has moan, now the Germans are moaning and tomorrow the French will moan -- then we'll all go along to the Apple store on the 9th of November and buy the bloody thing. Great!!!

FiveEcco
Sep 19, 2007, 07:59 AM
I counted on the price, so it is ok for me. Now only two things left.

1. Whats about the tariff plan

2. How do i get the time go faster!!!

IHateUserNames
Sep 19, 2007, 07:59 AM
Some details:

- press conference was held today in Berlin, Germany by Deutsche Telekom CEO and Steve Jobs

- iPhone will cost 399 Euros including tax, 2 year contract required

- tariff details will be announced just before November 9th

- every iPhone user will get free access to Deutsche Telekom's 8,000+ WiFi hotspots in Germany

- T-Mobile's EDGE coverage in Germany is near 100%

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:00 AM
I think i might be getting one in germany (or england wherever i am first) and make mine vodafone compatible

Remember that Steve said on tuesday 18th in a Q and A that they will be playing a cat and mouse game with stoping the people to unlock their iphones/./

Some details:

- press conference was held today in Berlin, Germany by Deutsche Telekom CEO and Steve Jobs

- iPhone will cost 399 Euros including tax, 2 year contract required

- tariff details will be announced just before November 9th

- every iPhone user will get free access to Deutsche Telekom's 8.000+ WiFi hotspots

Nice find, you found the extra info i found the basic info.

it's 8.600 to be exact in Germany

nja247
Sep 19, 2007, 08:02 AM
so it seems November 9th is shaping up to be the the released date for all European countries getting the iPhone... would be nice if they announced Canada to receive the device on the same day... Christmas shopping season is quickly approaching... say it with me now... caaannnn - aaaaaaaa - dddaaaaaaaa.

I keep hearing about Canada, and I doubt it. I mean it's been "known" for sometime now via the rumour mill that T-Mobile Germany, o2 UK, France, etc would be announced. We've heard nadda about Canada. I don't think it's Apple, it's likely that they're unable to strike the sweet deals with mobile carriers which they've been able to do in the States and some EU countries.

Just buy one off eBay like I did and unlock it and be happy with firmware 1.0.2 until 1.1 is cracked. At least then you're not paying the Apple tax on your phone tariff. So what, no visual voicemail?

PDE
Sep 19, 2007, 08:03 AM
it's really not fair the prices, but remember the VAT it included and in America it isn't..


Yes, that's very important. My $49.99 old ATT plan ends up being at least $70 with various mandatory fees and surcharges.

bruk201ib
Sep 19, 2007, 08:04 AM
no words about the tariffs?

i wonder when the iphone is going to be available in italy, the biggest mobile market in europe after germany. it's going to be tough for apple to meet find someone willing to spend that kind of money over there

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:06 AM
I'm not sure about this info but i read that iphone users with a t-mobile iphone can use 20.000 hotspots in and around Germany, and 8.600 of the 20.000 are in Germany.

blitzkrieg79
Sep 19, 2007, 08:07 AM
it's really not fair the prices, but remember the VAT it included and in America it isn't..

Fair or not fair but all those conversion rates is only speculation, reality is that although Euro currency is valued higher than US Dollar, the buying power of US Dollar on US soil is higher than that of Euro on lets say a French soil (or pick your EU country here). 399 Euro (including VAT which is about 22% if I am not mistaking) gives a bare price of about $435 (excluding VAT). In US, $399 plus tax (in NJ sales tax is 7%) gives me about $427. I guess you gotta calculate the shipping costs to Europe but either way it just shows the real value of Euro and not the speculative rate, same thing with cars or actually most other goods (being electronic, clothing, or cosmetic just to name a few). Euro is overpriced.

mark151
Sep 19, 2007, 08:09 AM
What About Italy?

nja247
Sep 19, 2007, 08:10 AM
Euro is overpriced.

Or maybe the dollar is artificially deflated for various reasons. I know it's not the Euro, but I assure you I can get more with the pound in the US and in the UK than I could with the dollar.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:10 AM
no words about the tariffs?

i wonder when the iphone is going to be available in italy, the biggest mobile market in europe after germany. it's going to be tough for apple to meet find someone willing to spend that kind of money over there

i don't know in Italy but here in Belgium you can't do "koppelverkoop" wich means selling a device with a data plan attached to it... so in Belgium can't sell an iphone with a Service provider they need to sell it without. And maybe therefore apple isn't going to bring an iphone in belgium soon.

IHateUserNames
Sep 19, 2007, 08:13 AM
I'm not sure about this info but i read that iphone users with a t-mobile iphone can use 20.000 hotspots in and around Germany, and 8.600 of the 20.000 are in Germany.

No, they mentioned that they run 20,000 hotspots worldwide, but German iPhone users will just get free access to the 8,000+ hotspots located in Germany.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:15 AM
No, they mentioned that they run 20,000 hotspots worldwide, but German iPhone users will just get free access to the 8,000+ hotspots located in Germany.

oh okay... read wrong or something

jnc
Sep 19, 2007, 08:26 AM
I have a UK T-Mobile contract, think I could just stick my current sim into this and have it work, somehow? COming out on o2 in the UK really screwed things up!

PDE
Sep 19, 2007, 08:27 AM
Wouldn't it just have been much easier, and more profitable, to release the iphone unlocked for all markets? This way, Apple had to negotiate with each individual carrier in each individual country - seems like a waste of resources and also a lost opportunity. And, it also means that in some countries apple can't release its phone because of national laws that prohibit their business practices.

redAPPLE
Sep 19, 2007, 08:27 AM
I think i might be getting one in germany (or england wherever i am first) and make mine vodafone compatible

but you would still need to pay the monthly fees for the next 2 years, right?

i understand that a user has a certain amount of free call times or sms, right?

i hope the iPhone has something like a counter, that tells you, that you have this much free talk time left...


Just buy one off eBay like I did and unlock it and be happy with firmware 1.0.2 until 1.1 is cracked. At least then you're not paying the Apple tax on your phone tariff. So what, no visual voicemail?

now firmware updates are freaking me out... it might mean, the iPhone would be crippled, once it gets updated...

odedia
Sep 19, 2007, 08:28 AM
I hope Israel is one of next in line...

It's already been announces that the official importer in Israel has changed from Yeda Computers (who no one really likes...) to Newpan led by Hemi Peres, a well respected and known company here.

In a phones per person ratio, Israel is one of the biggest markets in the world. The problem is we are only 7 million people total :).

Oh well... I can dream.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:32 AM
Wouldn't it just have been much easier, and more profitable, to release the iphone unlocked for all markets? This way, Apple had to negotiate with each individual carrier in each individual country - seems like a waste of resources and also a lost opportunity. And, it also means that in some countries apple can't release its phone because of national laws that prohibit their business practices.

it would, but then apple wouldn't have visual voicemail and they wouldn't have edge plans as they want and they wouldn't earn money on the calling...

jnc
Sep 19, 2007, 08:33 AM
Wouldn't it just have been much easier, and more profitable, to release the iphone unlocked for all markets?

Apple's probably getting a cut of the 18 month/ 24 month tariffs that are being set up, and the networks probably negotiated a fee for exclusivity on top of that.

iPhone would have to cost... three or four times as much as it does already if it were to be sold unlocked in order for Apple to make the same amount of money they're getting for partnering up, I'm guessing.

Jade Cambell
Sep 19, 2007, 08:33 AM
So again it says 8GB model. This probably confirms that there's no 16GB model coming to the states in the very near future. :(

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:37 AM
So again it says 8GB model. This probably confirms that there's no 16GB model coming to the states in the very near future. :(

probably not, maybe next year with also an ipod touch with 32GB ?

Romano
Sep 19, 2007, 08:38 AM
it has not been decided yet if the usage of the T-Mobile HotSpots is free or not.

Also, you can´t buy your iPhone directly from Apple, you need to buy it at the T-Mobile Stores (T-Punkt) or online at T-Mobile.

imho they really lost the chance to sell a lot in germany. I know so many people wanting an iPhone, but most of them (like me) have still running contracts with vodafone and O2 (and I am very happy with Vodafone since 9 years!).

raykhrud
Sep 19, 2007, 08:39 AM
I hope Israel is one of next in line...

It's already been announces that the official importer in Israel has changed from Yeda Computers (who no one really likes...) to Newpan led by Hemi Peres, a well respected and known company here.

In a phones per person ratio, Israel is one of the biggest markets in the world. The problem is we are only 7 million people total :).

Oh well... I can dream.

Israel is great country and I hope it will get iPhone unlocked! Just because it is great! ;)
And I will wait for Russia to receive not unlocked iPhone. For how many years?

ogee
Sep 19, 2007, 08:39 AM
No, they mentioned that they run 20,000 hotspots worldwide, but German iPhone users will just get free access to the 8,000+ hotspots located in Germany.

Mit 20.000 HotSpots weltweit ist T-Mobile der größte W-LAN-Anbieter. 8.600 HotSpots befinden sich in Deutschland - Nutzer können hier auf Downloadgeschwindigkeiten von bis zu 11 MB/s zurückgreifen.

Roughly translated:

"With 20,000 hotspots world wide, T-Mobile is the largest supplier of W-LAN (hotspots). 8600 Hotspots are located in Germany - here users can get download speeds of upto 11MB/s."

It is not 100% clear to me if they are limiting iPhone users to only Germany from this text.

I alrady have access to these hotspots as part of my normal telephone package which I can use with my MacBook, but I have not tried one outside of Germany. Most of these hotspots appear to be located in airports, stations, MacDonalds, hotels and T-Mobile/T-Com stores.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 08:43 AM
it has not been decided yet if the usage of the T-Mobile HotSpots is free or not.

Also, you can´t buy your iPhone directly from Apple, you need to buy it at the T-Mobile Stores (T-Punkt) or online at T-Mobile.

imho they really lost the chance to sell a lot in germany. I know so many people wanting an iPhone, but most of them (like me) have still running contracts with vodafone and O2 (and I am very happy with Vodafone since 9 years!).
I thought so too

pixlnet
Sep 19, 2007, 08:44 AM
Apple definitely gets a cut of the service profit. How much isn't known but to be the exclusive provider I'm guessing a couple dollars per month from each account....and I think they get that cut from the data plan, not the voice. Also, what's interesting is visual voicemail. They said AT&T developed it, but these other companies are using it. That would mean o2, t-mobile, etc. would have to license the tech from AT&T right?

The other question I have is how it would work to get my iphone on t-mobile in the states, since now t-mobile has the systems setup for iPhone. You know like, what if I lived in Germany and traveled to the states....do you have to get country specific firmware? I don't know what I'm talking about with the firmware/sim/unlock stuff but if anyone does please educate me/us.

ts1973
Sep 19, 2007, 08:45 AM
so it seems November 9th is shaping up to be the the released date for all European countries getting the iPhone...

No evidence of a Europe wide launch has been provided at all. Just France, Germany and the UK.
Unless SJ thinks Europe consists only of these three countries :rolleyes:


I don't think any others will get iPhone in '07 at all, to be honest. And if you want my opinion : just get an iPod touch and forget the Apple ripp-off phone :D

ogee
Sep 19, 2007, 08:46 AM
it has not been decided yet if the usage of the T-Mobile HotSpots is free or not.

Where did you get this info from? No mention that I can find on T-Mobiles site.

gkarris
Sep 19, 2007, 08:46 AM
I have a UK T-Mobile contract, think I could just stick my current sim into this and have it work, somehow? COming out on o2 in the UK really screwed things up!

I doubt it. Like here in the States, you will run into activation problems, trying to activate a T-Mobile Germany iPhone with UK T-Mobile. You will have to use the hacks like the rest of us T-Mobile users here...

bmcgrath
Sep 19, 2007, 08:47 AM
And Ireland? Hmm...

399€ is not so bad.

blitzkrieg79
Sep 19, 2007, 08:48 AM
Or maybe the dollar is artificially deflated for various reasons. I know it's not the Euro, but I assure you I can get more with the pound in the US and in the UK than I could with the dollar.

I didn't say that you couldn't get more with a pound or euro on US soil, I said that in most cases I can get more with US Dollar on US soil than you can with Euro/Pound on EU soil (when you consider all the crazy taxes, tariffs) the buying power is still on US Dollar/soil side, I travel constantly back and forth between two continents and thats what I've noticed. Value of Euro is going up but so are the prices of goods/services in EU. US economy on the other hand has become a bit stagnant and the prices are kind of unchanged (and most stores offer very big rebates/discounts on goods). Just price me out a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo in UK and compare that to US (although you get the FQ series but still the price difference is big).

Project
Sep 19, 2007, 08:53 AM
And Ireland? Hmm...

399€ is not so bad.


Ireland is expensive isn't it? Or at least an affluent country. So you would probably benefit more from a standard EU price.

Romano
Sep 19, 2007, 08:55 AM
Where did you get this info from? No mention that I can find on T-Mobiles site.

Deutsche Telekom´s CEO said this during the keynote.

Mulyahnto
Sep 19, 2007, 09:01 AM
399€ is not so bad.

No it's not. Especially if VAT is 19%. It's still a markup from U.S. prices, however, almost 20%.

ogee
Sep 19, 2007, 09:07 AM
Deutsche Telekom´s CEO said this during the keynote.

B*stards the lot of them ;)


I am awaiting a US import which I plan to unlock. I am on vodafone now, and have long since disabled the answering mailbox, so I wont miss VV one bit. And if I can use my free T-Kom Hotspot access then I will be happy. Anyone know if Starbucks will be offering iPhone support in EU like in the USA?

Romano
Sep 19, 2007, 09:10 AM
Anyone know if Starbucks will be offering iPhone support in EU like in the USA?

Starbucks is using (in germany) the T-HotSpot, so if you have the HotSpot Flat with your (i guess) T-Online Flatrate, you are just fine :)

Simmerl
Sep 19, 2007, 09:11 AM
Ugh, that website is ugly.
What's with all the pink text and this blurry glove pointer?

They get to sell the most beautiful cell phone and have absolutely no taste in design their site. Simply awful.

jfanning
Sep 19, 2007, 09:12 AM
it's really not fair the prices, but remember the VAT it included and in America it isn't..

So if you take off the 19% VAT in Germany you are left with a US$467 price, there is no reason to be that much more that in the US

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 09:12 AM
Starbucks is using (in germany) the T-HotSpot, so if you have the HotSpot Flat with your (i guess) T-Online Flatrate, you are just fine :)

Do they have Starbucks in Germany, i knew of England but Germany, Here in Belgium we don't have Starbucks.

Romano
Sep 19, 2007, 09:14 AM
Also, what's interesting is visual voicemail. They said AT&T developed it, but these other companies are using it. That would mean o2, t-mobile, etc. would have to license the tech from AT&T right?


Pushing an audio file with senders-data ect. to a mobilephone is actually nothing new - I think it works just like MMS :confused:

morespce54
Sep 19, 2007, 09:15 AM
Maybe, one day maybe, it will be available in Canada... ;)

jayhawk1225
Sep 19, 2007, 09:18 AM
The question I have now is since T-mobile's network will be able to use visual voicemail in Germany does that mean it will work in the USA with an unlocked iphone? Free T-mobile hotspots also?? I just dont think there will be a different firmware for every country but I dont really know. Just a thought.

FiveEcco
Sep 19, 2007, 09:20 AM
Where did you get this info from? No mention that I can find on T-Mobiles site.

No one at the press converence is talking about that they are free. But i think that this could be. Like in the UK.

ddubbo
Sep 19, 2007, 09:21 AM
I hope Israel is one of next in line...

It's already been announces that the official importer in Israel has changed from Yeda Computers (who no one really likes...) to Newpan led by Hemi Peres, a well respected and known company here.

In a phones per person ratio, Israel is one of the biggest markets in the world. The problem is we are only 7 million people total :).

Oh well... I can dream.
You're just kidding. No one will spend 3000 NIS on a gadget over here. All that people you see with expensive Noika get is subsidized.

ben5959
Sep 19, 2007, 09:21 AM
B*stards the lot of them ;)


I am awaiting a US import which I plan to unlock. I am on vodafone now, and have long since disabled the answering mailbox, so I wont miss VV one bit. And if I can use my free T-Kom Hotspot access then I will be happy. Anyone know if Starbucks will be offering iPhone support in EU like in the USA?

in the UK keynote, Jobs said that this question would be for starbucks to decide, i take this as it has been talked about by the two companies, but nothing set in stone
:(

FiveEcco
Sep 19, 2007, 09:22 AM
Do they have Starbucks in Germany, i knew of England but Germany, Here in Belgium we don't have Starbucks.

YES!! We have Starbucks here!! I cant live without them!!!

ddubbo
Sep 19, 2007, 09:26 AM
YES!! We have Starbucks here!! I cant live without them!!!
Disgusting! I can't believe that there is no better coffee in Belgium than Starbucks

Orng
Sep 19, 2007, 09:27 AM
so it seems November 9th is shaping up to be the the released date for all European countries getting the iPhone... would be nice if they announced Canada to receive the device on the same day... Christmas shopping season is quickly approaching... say it with me now... caaannnn - aaaaaaaa - dddaaaaaaaa.

You really want to pay Rogers' data rates?

Course, I don't really want to pay Rogers anything. Thats probably why they keep calling me.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 09:28 AM
Disgusting! I can't believe that there is no better coffee in Belgium than Starbucks

Well Lavazza is pretty good coffee...

lamadude
Sep 19, 2007, 09:33 AM
Uk got the iPhone, Germany and France will follow soon... and Belgium is sandwiched in between those 3 countries and not getting anything, ow the pain, the pain :-) But it least it will prevent me from throwing more money at apple gadgets when my current phone is working great...
ps. I think that after those 3 countries the Netherlands will get it next, just to rub it in our face ;-)

bmcgrath
Sep 19, 2007, 09:34 AM
Ireland is expensive isn't it? Or at least an affluent country. So you would probably benefit more from a standard EU price.

hehe the Irish have lots of money. Still doesn mean it's not steap to pay 399€ for a phone. I know I'l be getting it anyway :) However. o2 in Ireland is terrible. Expensive, poor service and poor customer care. Humm.... :mad:

ddubbo
Sep 19, 2007, 09:36 AM
Well Lavazza is pretty good coffee...
OK. Just get to the closest Italian cafe or restaurant(tratorria) and ask them to make a normal espresso/cappuccino. I'm sure you'll notice the difference.
Aside, Starbucks somehow can make Lavazza even worse. They make actually coffee-flavored boiled milk, not coffee

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 09:37 AM
Uk got the iPhone, Germany and France will follow soon... and Belgium is sandwiched in between those 3 countries and not getting anything, ow the pain, the pain :-) But it least it will prevent me from throwing more money at apple gadgets when my current phone is working great...
ps. I think that after those 3 countries the Netherlands will get it next, just to rub it in our face ;-)

Well i think Apple wil do something else with Belgium and release without a contract but, i think apple will have a contract with let's proximus or base or mobistar for a good iphone contract that people at own will can get if they have an iphone. i think so because in my apple shop in Antwerp there's a small poster saying: iphone expected December 2007

somberlaine
Sep 19, 2007, 09:40 AM
€399 - just while the Euro is almost going at $1.40.


That's what I was thinking...At the current exchange rate, all early adopters should not feel so bad about the $200 price cut.

JobsRules
Sep 19, 2007, 09:40 AM
iPhone is going to be a much tougher sell in Europe, although it should do pretty well int he UK.

UK kids are brand orientated and kids all want iPods as anything else just isn't the real McCoy. German and Spanish young people see the iPod as nice but a 'rip off' and would rather buy a much cheaper generic device.

Eurokids like cheap PAYG phones or nice Nokias on contracts for free.

porky
Sep 19, 2007, 09:43 AM
yes very very fast, maybe the update will come on nov 9

It won't happen in Belgium, it's illegal to sell abo's & gsm's together....

BTW : a lot of Belgian people here (like me) :)

nja247
Sep 19, 2007, 09:44 AM
The question I have now is since T-mobile's network will be able to use visual voicemail in Germany does that mean it will work in the USA with an unlocked iphone? Free T-mobile hotspots also?? I just dont think there will be a different firmware for every country but I dont really know. Just a thought.

T-Mobile USA and T-Mobile Germany, while they share a common brand name are two different entities and I wouldn't be too optimistic regarding that prospect to be honest. Further reports of users with unlocked phones using other AT&T tariffs/SIMs in the States have not had use of visual voicemail; it's somehow tied to the iPhone only rate plan or pay as you go billing.

Romano
Sep 19, 2007, 09:48 AM
iPhone is going to be a much tougher sell in Europe, although it should do pretty well int he UK.

UK kids are brand orientated and kids all want iPods as anything else just isn't the real McCoy. German and Spanish young people see the iPod as nice but a 'rip off' and would rather buy a much cheaper generic device.

Eurokids like cheap PAYG phones or nice Nokias on contracts for free.

Also german kids are some kind of brand orientated and wants iPods :)
But for mobile phone, Nokia and Sony Ericsson are very popular at young german.
A lot of them are using it for texting (SMS, and they do it a LOT), MMS, and calling each other. oh, and downloading Ringtones :rolleyes: . Importat is to have as much friends on the same carrier.
Almost every carrier offers a flatrate for calls within their subscribers for only a few €.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 09:50 AM
It won't happen in Belgium, it's illegal to sell abo's & gsm's together....

BTW : a lot of Belgian people here (like me) :)

the text you quoted is about the update over the iphone to get itunes wifi store. and Apple could sell the iphone alone without a contract.

Fisheke
Sep 19, 2007, 09:50 AM
Uk got the iPhone, Germany and France will follow soon... and Belgium is sandwiched in between those 3 countries and not getting anything, ow the pain, the pain :-)

I heard a rumor (from an in my eyes not entirely reliable source though, but with connections very high up the Belgacom ladder) that Belgacom was preparing for a release in cooperation with Vodafone (which they already use for their dataplan's). It would supposedly even be unlocked, but branded with a small logo.

Then again, the last sentence makes it so very unlikely.. but I still hope for a christmas-release.. I'd switch providers (mobistar's data sucks) in a heartbeat.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 09:52 AM
I heard a rumor (from an in my eyes not entirely reliable source though, but with connections very high up the Belgacom ladder) that Belgacom was preparing for a release in cooperation with Vodafone (which they already use for their dataplan's). It would supposedly even be unlocked, but branded with a small logo.

Then again, the last sentence makes it so very unlikely.. but I still hope for a christmas-release.. I'd switch providers (mobistar's data sucks) in a heartbeat.

You could be right, because you are aloud to sell gsm's with a standard like proximus sim-card, but you don't need to take proximus a service provider.. you can just freely get another one...

And i also hate mobistar!

pianojoe
Sep 19, 2007, 10:05 AM
So if you take off the 19% VAT in Germany you are left with a US$467 price, there is no reason to be that much more that in the US

There's a special fee on iPodish devices that goes to the performing rights organisation. Then, warranty expenses will be higher because customer protection is much better in the EU ( = more costly from the manufacturer's point of view).

igazza
Sep 19, 2007, 10:06 AM
i wish we had iphones in australia we gonna have to wait til next year :(

DesignerOnMac
Sep 19, 2007, 10:07 AM
I thought so too

Just checked the Apple.de website and you in fact can purchase the iPhone from Apple. Just a heads up n this mate!

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 10:10 AM
Just checked the Apple.de website and you in fact can purchase the iPhone from Apple. Just a heads up n this mate!

no it didn't think that but i thought about that there isn't any announcement about if the wifi will be free.

TheSilencer
Sep 19, 2007, 10:16 AM
Uhm, no contract infos? They must be bad or so good that they have to be secret. :D

Another point of interest here is the SIM unlocking. You have the right by law to get your cell phone unlocked after a 2 years contract for free, if not, you´ll get refund or special conditions for upgrading.

Romano
Sep 19, 2007, 10:16 AM
Just checked the Apple.de website and you in fact can purchase the iPhone from Apple. Just a heads up n this mate!

No, they said today, that you can NOT buy he iPhone direct from apple. :mad:
You need to buy this at the T-Mobile/T-Com Stores and T-Mobile Webshop.

MrCrowbar
Sep 19, 2007, 10:18 AM
Ugh, that website is ugly.
What's with all the pink text and this blurry glove pointer?

They get to sell the most beautiful cell phone and have absolutely no taste in design their site. Simply awful.

That's the "Deutsche Telekom" for ya. Everything is in that pink shade (I think they got the copyright on it), and their stores are called T-Spot (T-Punkt). I would hate walking out of a store called G-Spot with one of those Pink plastic bags. Errr, I mean T-Spot :D

Seriiously though, they're expensie and have bad coverage and bad customer service. I'm on prepaid right now, it's cheaper than normal contracts and I can ditch them whenever I please to go to another carrier or travel for half a few months.

Can I get an iPhone and not register it for a tariff like it is with ATT in the US? I'd like to get one, unlock it and use my prepaid SIM card.

Lycanthrope
Sep 19, 2007, 10:21 AM
Or maybe the dollar is artificially deflated for various reasons. I know it's not the Euro, but I assure you I can get more with the pound in the US and in the UK than I could with the dollar.

You can't equate it like that, stuff only looks so cheap in the US compared to Europe right now because the dollar is so weak - and weakening further due to the Fed rate cut of 9.5% yesterday. Five years ago when there was 0.85 euro to the dollar it was the other way around.

One could argue that Apple pricing should perhaps reflect the current rate a little more but they're protecting themselves against fluctuation back in favour of the dollar in the year ahead because they'll never change their prices based on rate changes unless there's a major model upgrade where they can hide such a change.

In fact the real way to look at it is what is one dollar worth in terms of cost of living for a person in the US and what's one euro/£ worth for you/me in Europe.

That being said it does mean that you can grab a bargain right now if you happen to be going to, or know someone visiting the US.

alljunks
Sep 19, 2007, 10:23 AM
sweet...soon or later..there will be unlock iphones from Apple!!

DarthMac
Sep 19, 2007, 10:27 AM
Why is it that Europe is now able to use the iphone, but I can't even though I live in the US? I live in Montana, and there is no AT&T service out here. :mad:

quigleybc
Sep 19, 2007, 10:31 AM
Yay Germany....

Canada? help?

benspratling
Sep 19, 2007, 10:33 AM
nnnnnn,looks like nothing special in the Europe market.We have to see when the 1th million iPhone is sold for a further discussion

Last week, buddy, where were you? :)
Cause, yeah, multi-touch is definitely nothing special. Nobody likes to have full-featured internet in their pocket, definitely not maps, and oh, I don't like being able to listen to my music, movies, tv shows, talk long distance to folks, take picture, and send and receive e-mails from one tiny device, all while running Mac OS X Leopard.

benspratling
Sep 19, 2007, 10:34 AM
Why is it that Europe is now able to use the iphone, but I can't even though I live in the US? I live in Montana, and there is no AT&T service out here. :mad:

You could complain or you could open a franchise... One gets you the iPhone, one doesn't...

MrMighty
Sep 19, 2007, 10:40 AM
According to 'webwereld', a Dutch site, a spokesman from T-mobile NL confirmed that they will deliver the iPhone in The Netherlands and Austria as well. However, T-mobile says they don't know when it will be available.

For those who can read Dutch: http://www.webwereld.nl/articles/47989/t-mobile-voert-iphone-in-nederland.html

odedia
Sep 19, 2007, 11:01 AM
You're just kidding. No one will spend 3000 NIS on a gadget over here. All that people you see with expensive Noika get is subsidized.

people already spend around 2000NIS for SIMPLE phones, not even smartphones.

Israel loves gadgets, I'm sure it'll be a huge success. Besides, who said the iPhone won't be subsidized as well? It appears that apple is willing to take the approach of different marketing to different markets.

CWallace
Sep 19, 2007, 11:07 AM
One could argue that Apple pricing should perhaps reflect the current rate a little more but they're protecting themselves against fluctuation back in favour of the dollar in the year ahead because they'll never change their prices based on rate changes unless there's a major model upgrade where they can hide such a change.

Very true.

Also, Apple is hardly the only worldwide company that charges the same in dollars as they do in Euros. For example, as I recall, Sony (PS3) and Microsoft (XBox) both charged the same in USD and € at least at product launch.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 11:09 AM
According to 'webwereld', a Dutch site, a spokesman from T-mobile NL confirmed that they will deliver the iPhone in The Netherlands and Austria as well. However, T-mobile says they don't know when it will be available.

For those who can read Dutch: http://www.webwereld.nl/articles/47989/t-mobile-voert-iphone-in-nederland.html

it says that the wifi-hotspots will be free!!

goosnarrggh
Sep 19, 2007, 11:11 AM
I keep hearing about Canada, and I doubt it. I mean it's been "known" for sometime now via the rumour mill that T-Mobile Germany, o2 UK, France, etc would be announced. We've heard nadda about Canada. I don't think it's Apple, it's likely that they're unable to strike the sweet deals with mobile carriers which they've been able to do in the States and some EU countries.

For Canadian carriers, you have to remember a couple of things:
There is exactly ONE company - Rogers - which owns infrastructure capable of servicing a GSM phone coast to coast. It runs two networks - Rogers Wireless, and Fido.

Rogers is not one of the "incumbent" utilities, so it is under no obligation to share its infrastructure with any of its competitors.

All of the other networks operate on CDMA networks.

So basically, Apple has 4 choinces:
1) Come up with an agreement to bring the iPhone to Canada on one of the Rogers networks.

2) Convince one of the other 2 national carriers to make the huge investment it would take to establish a second nation-wide GSM network.

3) Go it alone and sell the iPhone in Canada without a network partner.

4) Wait until it has no choice but to develop a CDMA phone to accommodate other, larger markets which haven't adopted GSM, and then release in Canada after that.

Given Roger's current price scheme for data plans, I don't think option (1) is going to move too fast.

Option (2) is totally out of the realm of possibility.

Option (3) might be nice, but I doubt it could happen.

That leaves option (4). So I'd guess no official release of iPhones in Canada for quite a while yet.

Plutonius
Sep 19, 2007, 11:20 AM
Well i think Apple wil do something else with Belgium and release without a contract but, i think apple will have a contract with let's proximus or base or mobistar for a good iphone contract that people at own will can get if they have an iphone. i think so because in my apple shop in Antwerp there's a small poster saying: iphone expected December 2007

Someone mentioned the possibility of Apple and the iPhone carrier renting the iPhone in Belgium. This would get around the contract / unlocking issues.

lofight
Sep 19, 2007, 11:23 AM
Someone mentioned the possibility of Apple and the iPhone carrier renting the iPhone in Belgium. This would get around the contract / unlocking issues.

Renting, do you mean like for 6 months orso for a small amount of money?? wow that'll be strange, IMO

Dembo
Sep 19, 2007, 11:24 AM
I am usually not a moaner (prove: got a SR MBP with the lower-third-yellow-cast issue and I am not moaning at all :) ) but I think Apple is trying to push out the EGPRS leftovers and Europeans are meant to help in getting rid of them.

Yes, € 399,- is not to bad – I can live with a approx. USD 50,- surcharge, but:

a) over here in Germany HSDPA is ubiquitous (I **** you not)
b) free or complimentary Wifi is (almost) unheard of (apparently mainly due to legal/responsibility issues) – true for coffee shops and the like as well as exploiting open connections

I am a recent switcher to the Mac-side and one of the things I truly admire(d) about Apple is that they include a feature only if performs/delivers 100%. EGPRS does not give me a decent internet surfing experience, it just doesn’t.

As others pointed out: We have no confirmation whether the German T-mobile hotspots will be available for no charge for iPhone users but even if they are: I have three Startbucks in 5min walking distance and T-mobile Wifi is broken on all three of them – last time I checked (and it was working) they charged ridiculously high amounts (order of magnitude: USD 15,- for 30min) so nobody is using it, nobody cares.

Maybe it’s my limited experience with Apple but it is sad to see that they too are just a we-get-it-right-on-the-second-or-third-try company.

My contract runs out in November and all the iPhone craziness made me seriously consider a mobile internet device. As much as I loathe the crappy user experience but I think I’ll have to learn to live with either the Samsung SGH i600 or the Nokia E61i… Damn! :mad:

MacsRgr8
Sep 19, 2007, 11:29 AM
Uk got the iPhone, Germany and France will follow soon... and Belgium is sandwiched in between those 3 countries and not getting anything, ow the pain, the pain :-) But it least it will prevent me from throwing more money at apple gadgets when my current phone is working great...
ps. I think that after those 3 countries the Netherlands will get it next, just to rub it in our face ;-)

LOL. I got my fingers crossed! ;):D

Aaargh!
Sep 19, 2007, 12:46 PM
According to 'webwereld', a Dutch site, a spokesman from T-mobile NL confirmed that they will deliver the iPhone in The Netherlands and Austria as well. However, T-mobile says they don't know when it will be available.
I doubt we'll get the current model in the Netherlands. The last provider to support EDGE is trying to get rid of it. All providers have invested enormous amounts of money in UMTS licenses and equipment. We'll probably have to wait for the 3G version.

DarthMac
Sep 19, 2007, 12:49 PM
You could complain or you could open a franchise... One gets you the iPhone, one doesn't...


The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Although it is probably a good thing I can't get an iphone. It would be one more unnecessary gadget to waste my money on. I'm gonna go buy another lens for my camera instead!

rlreif
Sep 19, 2007, 01:09 PM
so it seems November 9th is shaping up to be the the released date for all European countries getting the iPhone... would be nice if they announced Canada to receive the device on the same day... Christmas shopping season is quickly approaching... say it with me now... caaannnn - aaaaaaaa - dddaaaaaaaa.

not going to happen any time soon in canada
Jobs has too far to go with negotiations, because Canada has no unlimited data plans, and the data is so expensive that I pay less roaming in canada for data then canadians do on their home networks, no nationwide free long distance, calling the suburbs from vancouver is considered long distance.... even voicemail and caller ID costs extra. Rogers being the sole GSM provider doesnt have much incentive to change all of this (Fido is owned by Rogers), and therefore canadians get screwed as usual

MacinDoc
Sep 19, 2007, 02:06 PM
not going to happen any time soon in canada
Jobs has too far to go with negotiations, because Canada has no unlimited data plans, and the data is so expensive that I pay less roaming in canada for data then canadians do on their home networks, no nationwide free long distance, calling the suburbs from vancouver is considered long distance.... even voicemail and caller ID costs extra. Rogers being the sole GSM provider doesnt have much incentive to change all of this (Fido is owned by Rogers), and therefore canadians get screwed as usual
Sad but true. :(

swagi
Sep 19, 2007, 04:08 PM
I am usually not a moaner (prove: got a SR MBP with the lower-third-yellow-cast issue and I am not moaning at all :) ) but I think Apple is trying to push out the EGPRS leftovers and Europeans are meant to help in getting rid of them.

Yes, € 399,- is not to bad – I can live with a approx. USD 50,- surcharge, but:

a) over here in Germany HSDPA is ubiquitous (I **** you not)
b) free or complimentary Wifi is (almost) unheard of (apparently mainly due to legal/responsibility issues) – true for coffee shops and the like as well as exploiting open connections

I am a recent switcher to the Mac-side and one of the things I truly admire(d) about Apple is that they include a feature only if performs/delivers 100%. EGPRS does not give me a decent internet surfing experience, it just doesn’t.

As others pointed out: We have no confirmation whether the German T-mobile hotspots will be available for no charge for iPhone users but even if they are: I have three Startbucks in 5min walking distance and T-mobile Wifi is broken on all three of them – last time I checked (and it was working) they charged ridiculously high amounts (order of magnitude: USD 15,- for 30min) so nobody is using it, nobody cares.

Maybe it’s my limited experience with Apple but it is sad to see that they too are just a we-get-it-right-on-the-second-or-third-try company.

My contract runs out in November and all the iPhone craziness made me seriously consider a mobile internet device. As much as I loathe the crappy user experience but I think I’ll have to learn to live with either the Samsung SGH i600 or the Nokia E61i… Damn! :mad:

Completely agree with you. But don't be bitter. Having the internet in your pocket is quite overrated, if you ask me. But it perfectly fits into the current Web 'n Walk-ads, which T-mobile runs. Gimme a break, a woman just goes on the internet to spend money on shoes (surfing eBays) and preordering a concert ticket.

There seems to be little use for internet in your pocket other than wasting your time and money. And yes, I used my Nokia E65 to do some stock trading while away from home. But, well, I used it say less than 10 times to go online, even on WiFis. I first was considering a Data Flatrate for 25
€ on the O2-network. Then I found out that I would barely use it. Except when you have loads of money to burn...

kugino
Sep 19, 2007, 04:11 PM
there is an overwhelming number of negative votes in the UK announcement thread, but more positive votes in this Germany announcement thread...so what gives?

Aaargh!
Sep 19, 2007, 04:14 PM
there is an overwhelming number of negative votes in the UK announcement thread, but more positive votes in this Germany announcement thread...so what gives?
I think the negative votes in the UK announcement were because of the disappointment that there was no 3G in the EU version, that is no longer news.

kugino
Sep 19, 2007, 04:18 PM
I think the negative votes in the UK announcement were because of the disappointment that there was no 3G in the EU version, that is no longer news.

so once the disappointment of non-3G phones dissipated, we don't need to harp on it in future announcements? i guess so.

the macalope has an interesting post about people grumbling about the lack of 3G...i know it's been said over and over and discussed ad naseum...but with the current game of tradeoffs between data speed and device longevity (batter longevity, that is), i think i'd prefer to have my iphone last longer. but that's just me...

RafMac
Sep 19, 2007, 04:53 PM
Sad but true. :(

I have heard from sources that Canada will have iPhone in November, but it's still in negotiating stages and can be pushed back to January the latest. Apparently, Apple is trying to get ready for XMas season sales, so be patient out there. It's coming. Rogers is not the only GSM carrier now, there are new players on the horizon and its working for apple now.

zwobot
Sep 19, 2007, 05:27 PM
I posted some pictures from the event here…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marzipanguy/

4God
Sep 19, 2007, 05:44 PM
Dang, I wish iPhone was picked up on T-Mobile here in the states!

pmd
Sep 19, 2007, 06:39 PM
not going to happen any time soon in canada
Jobs has too far to go with negotiations, because Canada has no unlimited data plans, and the data is so expensive that I pay less roaming in canada for data then canadians do on their home networks

O2 UK didn't provide unlimited data either, but they've added it as part of the iPhone launch, so Rogers could do the same (in theory). All O2 customers will be able to get the unlimited plans, not just iPhone users.

I was on an O2 contract before I moved to Australia 6 months ago...oh well. At least I live by the beach now :)

twoodcc
Sep 19, 2007, 07:00 PM
good news for those in Germany.

goosnarrggh
Sep 19, 2007, 08:25 PM
I have heard from sources that Canada will have iPhone in November, but it's still in negotiating stages and can be pushed back to January the latest. Apparently, Apple is trying to get ready for XMas season sales, so be patient out there. It's coming. Rogers is not the only GSM carrier now, there are new players on the horizon and its working for apple now.

Rogers/Fido is the only player that is currently in a position to offer a coast-to-coast GSM network. That cannot change in a matter of 1 month. 4 months, maybe. Rogers took the better part of a decade to totally establish its network nation-wide, and it's still not as strong as the incumbent (Bell) system, on the East coast at least.

But either way, there would be a huge up-front price tag to get nation-wide infrastructure up and running from scratch, so I find that possibility a little hard to swallow.

ddubbo
Sep 20, 2007, 03:19 AM
people already spend around 2000NIS for SIMPLE phones, not even smartphones.

Israel loves gadgets, I'm sure it'll be a huge success. Besides, who said the iPhone won't be subsidized as well? It appears that apple is willing to take the approach of different marketing to different markets.
The last market in the world Apple takes care of is Israel. When, if any, iPhone will get over here it won't be subsidized, the same way as it does at Europe now.
It will cost about 3000NIS + plan as if it subsidized. So when people will get a choice to get Nokia N95 for free or iPhone for 3000NIS, very few will pick up second one.2000 units will be a max capacity for market.
I do not know people who put more than 500 NIS by hard cash for simple cellphone.

Dembo
Sep 20, 2007, 04:22 AM
@swagi:

Completely agree with you. But don't be bitter. Having the internet in your pocket is quite overrated, if you ask me. But it perfectly fits into the current Web 'n Walk-ads, which T-mobile runs. Gimme a break, a woman just goes on the internet to spend money on shoes (surfing eBays) and preordering a concert ticket

Well, I am spoiled - the company I work for provides me with a UMTS/HSDPA flat rate and corresponding PCMCIA card (trying to exchange this into PC Express card right now to get it to work together with my MBP): Very nice! Drawback is travelling every week and not having access to a BlackBerry.

Almost all of my PIM data is online since I was getting to annoyed by my elderly T3 and I would love to have access to this without flipping out my laptop. Overall it's about those "small pockets of time" that could be easily filed up with "productive" RSS reading and such... ;)

Maybe the E61i or Samsung's SGH i600 will do the trick - looking into those alternatives right now.

TheSilencer
Sep 26, 2007, 12:31 PM
I found this in Munich at a Saturn consumer electronics market.
The prices are the old ones, not updated. However, this is a advertisement from "Debitel", they resell T-Mobile contracts and others, sometimes with better prices. Nothing really impressive, more a funny sidenote.

No, no Photoshop used! ;)

lofight
Sep 26, 2007, 12:42 PM
I found this in Munich at a Saturn consumer electronics market.
The prices are the old ones, not updated. However, this is a advertisement from "Debitel", they resell T-Mobile contracts and others, sometimes with better prices. Nothing really impressive, more a funny sidenote.

No, no Photoshop used! ;)

lol, but i still is english the iphone apps.

TheSilencer
Sep 26, 2007, 01:02 PM
Well, seems that this is some weeks old, not sure how long this is in there. Maybe they have forgotten it. :D