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MacRumors
Oct 2, 2007, 11:46 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Microsoft announced (http://www.news.com/Microsoft-unveils-new-generation-of-Zune/2100-1041_3-6211357.html?tag=newsmap) three new models of its Zune (http://www.zune.net/en-US/meetzune/) music player on Tuesday. The new models mirror Apple's iPod Nano and iPod lines by introducing a flash-based 4GB/8GB at $149 and $199 along with a larger 80GB hard-drive based model at $249. The previous 30GB Zune will continue to be sold at $199.99, and receive a software update bringing it up to par with the new Zune features.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/10/03/zune_300.jpg


All Zunes feature Wi-Fi connectivity for sharing songs as well as automatic wireless syncing to PCs. Over the air purchasing, however, is not presently available on the new Zunes. Other features include a touch-sensitive navigation button allowing users to slide their finger up/down/left/right to navigate around the screen.

In addition, Microsoft also announced that they would be selling more than 1 million songs in DRM-free MP3 format. They've also introduced podcasts and music videos selections. Wired's hands on (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/10/hands-on-with-z.html) with the units also describe a new social networking site called Zune Social which compiles a list songs you play on your PC or Zune so friends can see what you are listening to.

Microsoft has reportedly (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/2003920832_zune03.html) sold 1.2 million Zunes since its launch in November 2006.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/03/microsoft-announces-2nd-generation-zune-music-player/)



Eidorian
Oct 2, 2007, 11:47 PM
No OS X support. :(

aaronh3
Oct 2, 2007, 11:51 PM
Yuck!
this is what should happen with Zunes:

http://hideapod.com/

kuebby
Oct 2, 2007, 11:53 PM
Yuck!
this is what should happen with Zunes:

http://hideapod.com/

I would probably get one of those if they were real.

flopticalcube
Oct 2, 2007, 11:55 PM
No OS X support. :(

Yeah, that sux. But WiFi syncing and a DRM-free store (or rather a store with some DRM-free songs). Apple will have to up the ante on the next gen.

haiggy
Oct 2, 2007, 11:55 PM
I would probably get one of those if they were real.

That is the funniest product EVER

kissmyaxe
Oct 2, 2007, 11:55 PM
Hahahaha, gotta love good ol' Micro$oft... :D

bamisey
Oct 2, 2007, 11:56 PM
Wow. A free update for old Zunes.

Wouldn't it be nice if Apple could emulate this. The inner workings of the 5.5G iPod and the 6G iPod are the same. Why can't apple send an update so 5.5G iPod owners could also get the new interface?

This is a plus for Zune.

Sayer
Oct 2, 2007, 11:58 PM
On the one hand, the features/specs are still lackluster compared to even 4G iPods. On the other hand, with Apple locking up a lot of UI/design patents in the iPod (scroll wheel, menu system, et al.) there really isn't much wiggle room to compete head on with the iPod.

And what is with the green colored Zunes? It kinda looks like a Halo-edition Zune, but, not.

And the dock/pad thing is HUGE. WTF?

Evangelion
Oct 2, 2007, 11:59 PM
Wow. A free update for old Zunes.

Wouldn't it be nice if Apple could emulate this. The inner workings of the 5.5G iPod and the 6G iPod are the same.

How do you know? And Apple has already done this before: 5G iPods got many of the features that were introduced in 5.5G.

Mylstar
Oct 2, 2007, 11:59 PM
Yuck!
this is what should happen with Zunes:

http://hideapod.com/

Awesome site. Try and order one......lol.

thejadedmonkey
Oct 3, 2007, 12:00 AM
Give me OS X support and I'm there!

DVNIEL
Oct 3, 2007, 12:00 AM
Is it just me or does the new Zune remind you of "The Chocolate" by Verizon? Especially the black and pink ones.

wakerider017
Oct 3, 2007, 12:00 AM
Direct competitor with iPod Touch?

I DON"T THINK SO!

DMann
Oct 3, 2007, 12:03 AM
Wow. A free update for old Zunes.

Wouldn't it be nice if Apple could emulate this. The inner workings of the 5.5G iPod and the 6G iPod are the same. Why can't apple send an update so 5.5G iPod owners could also get the new interface?

This is a plus for Zune.

Yes, that they admit their BETA release was just that.......... and less.

nagromme
Oct 3, 2007, 12:04 AM
Wireless sync? Sounds vaguely cool... and pretty minor in practice.

You have to plug in to charge anyway. Synching then happens automatically, in seconds, long before charging is done. No buttons to press or user intervention needed. Charge and forget.

Wireless sync might or might not need user intervention to trigger it... but it won't do much for your battery. You're still going to have to plug in to charge.

I wonder how the flash Zune's screen size (and overall device volume/thinness) compares to the new video Nanos.

As for sliding up/down/left/right... I don't see that allowing intuitive uninterrupted scrolling of LONG content lists, the way a wheel (or multitouch) does.

EDIT - Wasn't Microsoft trying to get some other term to catch on in place of "podcast"? :D

mrkramer
Oct 3, 2007, 12:04 AM
I still prefer the iPod touch to these, but I would definitally consider one over a different iPod if they had OS X support. I think that these are the best competition to the iPods currently out there.

p0intblank
Oct 3, 2007, 12:05 AM
I have to say, this looks like a nice solid update for the Zune. However, the navigation on the bottom looks somewhat off in the picture. Perhaps it looks better in person. But still, it doesn't matter... because iPod FTW! :)

Edit: Just checked them out at Zune.net. I actually like the old design more. The buttons on the bottom look like oversized bubbles.

Cinematographer
Oct 3, 2007, 12:05 AM
I must admit, I'm a little bit impressed. The new zunes are much much less complet crap compared to the first generation ones. :D

Ja Di ksw
Oct 3, 2007, 12:05 AM
Do they really call is squirting? Honestly, if a brown Zune squirts . . . . . .

Somedays I really wish I had photoshop :)

irun5k
Oct 3, 2007, 12:05 AM
It is becoming obvious that if the iTMS continues to be primarily a DRM shop, the iTMS is doomed.

First Amazon goes MP3 and now Microsoft.

I'm not really sure Apple cares a whole lot. I don't think they need the iTMS at all. Still, it would be a shame if they aren't able to negotiate the same agreement with the record companies that Amazon and M$ were able to put into place.

DMann
Oct 3, 2007, 12:06 AM
Yuck!
this is what should happen with Zunes:

http://hideapod.com/

Very practical..... I'd order one.

The Bad Guy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:07 AM
As crap as I know they are...I can't help but think the black one on the left, looks kinda pimp.

arn
Oct 3, 2007, 12:08 AM
I wonder how the flash Zune's screen size (and overall device volume/thinness) compares to the new video Nanos.


Flash: 1.8" (Zune) vs 2.0" (nano)
HD: 3.2 inches (Zune) vs 2.5" (iPod Classic)

arn

ivi7
Oct 3, 2007, 12:10 AM
Even Version 10 of Zune won't be able compete with iPods

halhiker
Oct 3, 2007, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Microsoft has reportedly (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/2003920832_zune03.html) sold 1.2 million Zunes since its launch in November 2006.

Wow! I had no idea that Microsoft has 1.2 million employees!

yg17
Oct 3, 2007, 12:12 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

nagromme
Oct 3, 2007, 12:14 AM
I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

I won't comment on the usage: the things we don't know. But I WILL comment on the facts: the things we do. :)

Eidorian
Oct 3, 2007, 12:14 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used oneThe interface isn't that bad and the tuner is nice.

It seems a lot snappier then the iPod Mini I used to have and the Classics I've played with in the store.

splashman
Oct 3, 2007, 12:15 AM
Er . . . the renewed ugly, I suppose. Barfola. Apparently MS still has a sign above the employees' entrance: "Abandon all taste, ye who enter in."

queshy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:16 AM
Lol, no point in putting in OS X support anyway.

Nobody with a mac would buy one!!

arn
Oct 3, 2007, 12:16 AM
I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn

Eidorian
Oct 3, 2007, 12:17 AM
I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arnIndeed it is.

DMann
Oct 3, 2007, 12:17 AM
And the dock/pad thing is HUGE. WTF?

That lower region is already taken up by the components necessary to run the device - might as well tack a jumbo track-pad on top of it. Besides, why would anyone want a larger screen anyway, or a touch screen for that matter? That is sooooooo last summer, with the iPhone and iTouch...:rolleyes:

ivi7
Oct 3, 2007, 12:17 AM
Lol, no point in putting in OS X support anyway.

Nobody with a mac would buy one!!

Lol I wouldn't even be seen dead with a Zune.

thebassoonist
Oct 3, 2007, 12:18 AM
Did they get rid of brown? It was such a great color!

Poff
Oct 3, 2007, 12:19 AM
Flash: 1.8" (Zune) vs 2.0" (nano)
HD: 3.2 inches (Zune) vs 2.5" (iPod Classic)

arn

The 3,2inches is almost as big as the ipod touch 3,5 inches. but I guess people will think it's much smaller anyways.. :)

Peace
Oct 3, 2007, 12:19 AM
Lol, no point in putting in OS X support anyway.

Nobody with a mac would buy one!!

Lot's of Windows users will though.

I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn

Could be a required thing from the recording companies in order to offer DRM free music.

HailToTheVictor
Oct 3, 2007, 12:20 AM
Do they really call is squirting? Honestly, if a brown Zune squirts . . . . . .

Somedays I really wish I had photoshop :)

You beat me to it. Could they not come up with any better name?

DMann
Oct 3, 2007, 12:21 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

Played with one for a week - quite amazing how cheap and clunky the unit is in terms of construction, interface, and design. The Zune 2 seems to make for a dramatic improvement over the first, but then again, so would most anything.

mandoman
Oct 3, 2007, 12:21 AM
I totally miss the Brown color on Zunes. If only they released their
second gen in that color! Damn, guess I'm going to have to hunt down a refurb
first gen. :rolleyes:

DMann
Oct 3, 2007, 12:23 AM
I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn

Seems like they're trying to sweeten the pot for iPod converts.

Darkroom
Oct 3, 2007, 12:26 AM
ugly much? they even incorporated the black border that's present on the new iMac screens. and for a multi billion dollar corporation, only selling a million of these in a year is kinda embarrassing...

BTW
Oct 3, 2007, 12:26 AM
I still prefer the iPod touch to these, but I would definitally consider one over a different iPod if they had OS X support. I think that these are the best competition to the iPods currently out there.


Same here. The 80Gb Zune is a nice device.

Cappy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:27 AM
I would guess that the record labels have a thing or two to say about them using the mp3 format as right now it seems they badly want to wrestle control from Apple. Going with mp3 is the only way to do this as now MS can sell songs for ipods or any other player that might not play even their own format(s).

I'm not sure though that Apple cares too much about "losing control" over the whole store side of the coin. They make their money on ipods and people really like the whole end to end solution of itunes. It'll be interesting to see if MS creates some sort of conduit to dump purchased drm free music into itunes.

But I digress...no one should discount MS. These look like worthwhile updates and I'm all for competition. While I prefer Apple, I know that they prefer their profits over me so if it takes MS to help keep them honest, then so be it. :)

thebassoonist
Oct 3, 2007, 12:28 AM
Quote:
Microsoft has reportedly (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/2003920832_zune03.html) sold 1.2 million Zunes since its launch in November 2006.

Wow! I had no idea that Microsoft has 1.2 million employees!

Don't forget the employees' families ;)

queshy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:30 AM
Lot's of Windows users will though.



Could be a required thing from the recording companies in order to offer DRM free music.


Now I'm not gonna be all biased and say ZUNE SUCKS! I've never tried one. Scrap that...I've never even SEEN one!

At least if I saw one the person would be seen as "original". The iPod is THE MP3 player in this universe. Apple has gone too far ahead of others to catch up.

I don't even think windows users would go for a zune. I used to be a windows user and still had iPods!

At my uni, you would think Apple has 99% market share...everyone with a laptop has a mac, and everyone with an mp3 player an iPod. It really is a revolution.

adrianm
Oct 3, 2007, 12:34 AM
Competition is good and I hoped for something a bit special from the new Zune.

But these new ones just look uninteresting. Even the website (zune.net) is a clunky mess, and there's no mention of the Zune on the US microsoft.com home page today.

It's like Microsoft are almost embarrassed by it.

Westside guy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:35 AM
Feel free to correct me on this if the behavior has been updated to work in a way that actually makes sense...

The silliest thing about Zune's wireless sharing is that you have to go hunt down the person who's sharing the song, and get them to squirt (does anyone NOT hate that term?) it to you. In my mind that renders what could be a cool feature pretty much useless. I can't imagine this was Microsoft's choice; but it does have the RIAA's fingerprints all over it.

lazyrighteye
Oct 3, 2007, 12:42 AM
I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn

I was thinking the same thing.

Then I thought, "bodes well for my 80+ GB MP3 collection."

Then I thought, "great, the fact I mention '80 GB,' some tool box will chime right in with 'well MY music collection is 200 GB' and then a bigger tool box will pipe up 'HA! Sux0rs! I own all the MP3 files in the world' and so on and so on."

Then I thought, "I better clarify that I wasn't mentioning '80 GB' as a 'check me out' statistic but more to illustrate that I am glad to see MS adopt MP3 as it more than likely means my collection of MP3 files might have a longer shelf-life than - say - AAC (which I do not own)."

And then I thought, "I could be wrong about the 'shelf-life' thing..."

Which made me think "I gotta think less."

donlphi
Oct 3, 2007, 12:43 AM
I still wish iPod Classic had wi-fi and an online music store. There is no reason they couldn't get that simple iTunes music store to work on it. It isn't like it is impossible.

I think the iPod Classic will be phased out as flash drives get larger and cheaper.

janitorC7
Oct 3, 2007, 12:45 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

I have used one.

The interface DOES 'SUX0RS!!!!'

bloodycape
Oct 3, 2007, 12:47 AM
I still prefer the iPod touch to these, but I would definitally consider one over a different iPod if they had OS X support. I think that these are the best competition to the iPods currently out there.

I hate how people say that MS is the best competion for iPods in this market. They are the only competition that really markets their player, due in part they got some good amount of money to spend on marketing.

Lets see we have Creative Zen 16gig of flash, plus, SDHC support, so in theory 32gigs of flash, and very good sound from what I hear. Comes with voice recording, nice video support, drm-free AAC support and is priced competitively.

Cowon i7, UMS, and has many features, like voice recording(nice if you want to record lectures), line in, full range of video and audio suport and comes in 16gig. Cowon D2 similar feature expect it comes with a 2.5in touch screen, and in 8gig with SDHC support. Not to mention something like 50hours of battery out of it. And Cowon has fantastic audio quality.

Archos 605 wifi, comes in 4gig of flash with SDHC support, 30gig, 80gig or 160gig. 4in wide touch screen, records audo, and video(granted with a dock that cost extra), a wide array of codec support for video including h.264. Opera browser, and wireless syncing.

I can go on...

If the new Zune 80 is on par in terms of sound and video quality I may over look the fact that it does not come with divx, and ogg support and the fact that is has no UMS support either. Not to mention if this has a better screen than the Cowon X7(if that ever comes out), the next Creative HD player(if they make one) or if I can't wait any longer for a 16gig+ Samsung P2. Then again LimbMTP or whatever should be able to work to with the Zune. ATM

TuffLuffJimmy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:47 AM
There's really nothing else to say than
Bwahahahahahahahahah
It's still too ugly

The Bad Guy
Oct 3, 2007, 12:50 AM
I still wish iPod Classic had wi-fi and an online music store. There is no reason they couldn't get that simple iTunes music store to work on it. It isn't like it is impossible.

I think the iPod Classic will be phased out as flash drives get larger and cheaper.
A fair assumption.

crazyiez
Oct 3, 2007, 12:53 AM
Lol, no point in putting in OS X support anyway.

Nobody with a mac would buy one!!


hey i have a zune with my mac book pro. both great products but not great freinds

HLdan
Oct 3, 2007, 12:54 AM
An earlier poster made a good point. Are we just saying the Zune sucks because it's Microsoft's product? Have we even used one? Since that point was valid I will give my opinions on why the Zune truly sucks even though I have never used one.

The business model for the Zune sucks. Why?

Wireless sharing. Share a purchased song with a friend (If you can find one with a Zune) and that friend can only play it 3 times before an annoying message pops up begging you to buy it. Stupid!

Zune Marketplace. You have to buy point style tokens that equal a certain amount to buy songs. Example, you want to buy a song for .79 cents, you use your Zune points to buy it, you will always have useless Zune points left over because Zune points round off to the nearest dollar. You can't just buy enough points to cover the .79 cent song. Dumb!

The Zune competing with the iPod for market share is in a much worse place than Mac OS X competing with Windows for market share so Microsoft ditching Mac support out of spite is again Stupid!

Advertising features that are unavailable. Microsoft wants to offer marketplace purchases through the Zune much like the iPod's new iTunes Wifi Store. Well the new Zunes don't do it yet but Microsoft is advertising it being a feature, again Dumb!

The iPod is the standard for car manufacturers, 3rd party companies making desktop speaker designs to accommodate iPods and there is so much more support for iPods. If anyone buys a Zune I feel sorry for your mistake.

Jade Cambell
Oct 3, 2007, 12:54 AM
I don't get it. Microsoft has intelligent people inside it. They see what Apple does. They work with technology. Why don't they make good products? It's as if they want to be laughed at.

JackAxe
Oct 3, 2007, 12:55 AM
So what's new about this version 2 Zune? Now Universal gets $2 for everyone sold. :)

I've used a Zune also and it's the SUXOR!

And I wonder if this new Zune will actually have support for uncompressed audio formats like the iPod?

MS's comment about how Apple doesn't know software like them on the Wired site is a joke. Unless they're referring to the fact that their goods in general are quite mediocre and usually a lackluster when compared to Apple's offerings.

<]=)

mayoko185
Oct 3, 2007, 12:55 AM
Lol, no point in putting in OS X support anyway.

Nobody with a mac would buy one!!
I might, my ipod 5.0gen's harddrive is not doing so well, and im in the market for a new mp3 player. I im un-impressed with the new ipod "classic" and 16MB with the touch is not enough for me anymore. If the zune2 comes out soon (and I see reports that the firmware is not buggy :rolleyes:) I just might get it, built in tuner plus larger screen for the same price as the ipod 80gb. For me the zune2 looks more attractive then the new ipod classic. Im sure the zune will work fine via parallels anyways.

iQuit
Oct 3, 2007, 12:57 AM
iPod Nano pixel density is incredible. Zune's suck compared the iPod. :p

nato64
Oct 3, 2007, 01:01 AM
The only reason someone would get a Zune, from what I can derive, is because iTunes on Windows is absolute crap. All my friends who are power users on Windows absolutely hate iTunes. But they love their iPods. I don't know why because iTunes works great in Mac OS X. But they hate it. They complain about crashes, memory leacks, how when you try to quit it it stalls, etc. I wouldn't be concerned if it was just one but it's four different friends. So if there was a MP3 player out there that works even remotely as well as the iPod, they might just dump the iBandwagon and go with a Zune.

It's sad really. What makes Apple so great is that they make the software and the hardware. Something Microsoft has begun emulating.

comebackdwn
Oct 3, 2007, 01:01 AM
although not a music player.

i think a leopard release date would be the perfect thing to keep this zune stuff not so hyped.

although, its a zune. it wont get much hype anyway.:cool:

JackAxe
Oct 3, 2007, 01:04 AM
I don't get it. Microsoft has intelligent people inside it. They see what Apple does. They work with technology. Why don't they make good products? It's as if they want to be laughed at.

This is what my friends told me the other year about MS. He's done copy-writing for them: MS does in fact have loads of really smart people, but do to in house politics, good ideas generally get shot down by others that are fending their "look at me" space, or something along that line -- there's even signs up that try to detour this sort of thing in the meeting rooms. They also focus-group ideas to death, so even the best ideas that makes it through the onslaught of jealous nay sayers end up as a mediocre execution.

<]=)

teme
Oct 3, 2007, 01:06 AM
I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn


That's probably because WMW-format have such a negative/copy protected image. It's better to sell MP3 format than try to convince people that these wmv's really aren't copy protected.

Well, anyway... I actually like the new Zune designs. A lot. Especially that harddrive-based Zune looks sleeker and more modern than iPod Classic. If it was available in 160GB format here in Europe, I'd probably buy it.

bigjohn
Oct 3, 2007, 01:08 AM
Yawn.

bloodycape
Oct 3, 2007, 01:09 AM
this does have WMA lossess and should add another lossless format from what I hear.

Abstract
Oct 3, 2007, 01:14 AM
I totally miss the Brown color on Zunes. If only they released their
second gen in that color! Damn, guess I'm going to have to hunt down a refurb
first gen. :rolleyes:

I have a brown Zune waiting for you. It's in my toilet. Take a look.

JackAxe
Oct 3, 2007, 01:17 AM
The only reason someone would get a Zune, from what I can derive, is because iTunes on Windows is absolute crap. All my friends who are power users on Windows absolutely hate iTunes. But they love their iPods. I don't know why because iTunes works great in Mac OS X. But they hate it. They complain about crashes, memory leacks, how when you try to quit it it stalls, etc. I wouldn't be concerned if it was just one but it's four different friends. So if there was a MP3 player out there that works even remotely as well as the iPod, they might just dump the iBandwagon and go with a Zune.

It's sad really. What makes Apple so great is that they make the software and the hardware. Something Microsoft has begun emulating.

My friend's rip on iTunes, but from personal experience it runs good on my XP PC "these days" and the same goes for all of the comps down at my friends agency. It does runs better on my Macs, mainly it's much faster, even on a slower CPU. But the only reason my long-time PC friends didn't like it, was because it loads background tasks like the iTunes helper. I've been a PC user longer than Mac user by over a decade -- 22 years now and I can understand where they're coming from, because 3rd party background tasks were generally the reason our PCs would crash during a game. iTunes like any application under XP, or now Vista I guess, will only run as well as the OS has been maintained. PCs need to be maintained and if one neglects this they can get pretty unruly. But at least they're not as bad as they were in the pre-Win2K-SP2 days. Nothing was more exciting than watching a friend reformat their comp for a LAN party, or even worse, when it was my system that decided to take a dump out of the blue.

Blah.

<]=)

diametric
Oct 3, 2007, 01:30 AM
From Microsoft's site:
Zune: Now in pink, red, and Halo 3 editions.

..HALO 3 EDITION? That green (sorta brown thing) is a Halo edition? This, for a device that has.. NOTHING to do with gaming?

..okay, Microsoft, it's okay *pats back*

corywoolf
Oct 3, 2007, 01:39 AM
I actually liked the brown Zune, I give props to Microsoft for hanging in there and trying still. They really need to get rid of the sharing limitations though, it's a tough battle to win against the record corps though.

Phormic
Oct 3, 2007, 01:40 AM
Notice on the new Zune website that podcasts are called, well..."podcasts"?

Which is, in itself, an admission of defeat.

commander.data
Oct 3, 2007, 01:41 AM
I wonder if Apple is going to pre-emptively offer a large price cut on their iPods like for the iPhone? Personally, I'm no a big fan of the iPod Nano or iPod Classic since their design seems to be kind of stagnating. I'm just waiting for the price of the iPod Touch to come done. A 32GB iPod Touch with WiFi N would be nice so I can run a pure 5GHz network.

princigalli
Oct 3, 2007, 01:43 AM
Microsoft is not afraid of looking stupid. They should avoid looking like copy cats. Even if the Zune was appealing, I wouldn't carry around a device with that name! How much marketing money did they waste to come up with such a stupid name? Was it supposed to sound "young?"

ajhill
Oct 3, 2007, 01:44 AM
Gee, these are especially ugly. No new features? Just catching up to the previous generation of iPod, not even equal to the new iPods?

And where did they get those colors? Well at least they got rid of the brown one. Having a Brown gadget that squirts (Microsoft's word, not mine!) is enough to turn off any buyer.

Welcome to the New Social! Same as the Old Social!

We won't get fooled again. Oh, no!

ajhill
Oct 3, 2007, 01:48 AM
From Microsoft's site:
Zune: Now in pink, red, and Halo 3 editions.

..HALO 3 EDITION? That green (sorta brown thing) is a Halo edition? This, for a device that has.. NOTHING to do with gaming?

..okay, Microsoft, it's okay *pats back*


Hey, cut them a little slack. Halo 3 is the only thing they got right recently $170 million in sales isn't bad. Too bad the X-Box had a 1.1 BILLION Dollar recall this year... Let's see that puts the X-Box about 7 BILLION dollars in the RED! They are going to need a lot more to pull their head out of you know where.

Just wait for Apple to start picking up momentum in the PC Sales category. Windows Vista is an abortion! Retailers are flocking back to XP!

And we get Leopard this month! Yeah!

nlivo
Oct 3, 2007, 01:51 AM
wait so if you say this is "negative" does that mean your saying the zune's are bad or that it is bad for the iPod because it might take away sales??? I'm a little confused. I was a little impressed but still nothing can beat iTunes...iTunes is what makes the iPod so succesful.

nlivo
Oct 3, 2007, 01:55 AM
Microsoft is not afraid of looking stupid. They should avoid looking like copy cats. Even if the Zune was appealing, I wouldn't carry around a device with that name! How much marketing money did they waste to come up with such a stupid name? Was it supposed to sound "young?"

I don't think 'Zune' is a bad name. I think iRiver is the worst. Pathetic actually.

Kipling
Oct 3, 2007, 01:56 AM
First Amazon goes MP3 and now Microsoft.

I'm not really sure Apple cares a whole lot. I don't think they need the iTMS at all. Still, it would be a shame if they aren't able to negotiate the same agreement with the record companies that Amazon and M$ were able to put into place.

Er... I don't think MSFT is offering any more DRM-free tracks than Apple is - it's only the EMI catalogue again as far as I can gather.

Darkroom
Oct 3, 2007, 01:58 AM
Notice on the new Zune website that podcasts are called, well..."podcasts"?

Which is, in itself, an admission of defeat.

oh i wish they tried to rename them Zunecasts... now THAT would be have hilarious...

mjonson
Oct 3, 2007, 01:59 AM
The flash zune offers very little competition. but i must say i do like the Zune 2. big screen and it looks decent. competition is good.

Peligro
Oct 3, 2007, 02:00 AM
These look like a step in the right direction. Too bad some of the features are only good in theory... not so much in practice. Another strike would be the fact that these are COPIES. The original is still the best. In my opinion.

Also, for the record, I don't think iTunes FOR windows sucks. I think iTunes ON windows sucks.

spotlight07
Oct 3, 2007, 02:01 AM
1.2 million zunes sold. Seems like a lot more than I expected. How does that compare with the iPod? I would never dream of owning a zune my iPhone is perfect. Sorry to see the brown go, it was my favorite joke. Wouldn't mind the wifi sync on the iPhone tho. That would be cool.

Whotheheck
Oct 3, 2007, 02:07 AM
The ability to sync with Windows Media Center is huge. That means you can have your PC record a TV show for you and all you have to do is sync. No having to pay $2 an episode on iTunes, whenever it decides to show up.

FM is something I'm still amazed the iPod doesn't have.

I prefer the subscription plan of downloading whatever you want to your Zune than having to pay $1 per song (or $10+ per album) on iTunes. I prefer to have a physical copy of an album if I am going to purchase it. Being able to download whatever I want (even if I don't get to keep it) is better 'cause I get to try albums before I buy them. Being able to load them on a Zune is a plus. In fact, other players can use other services like Yahoo! for this. The iPod is the only one of the major players that can't.

Microsoft is updating all the older Zunes with the features of the new ones? Don't you wish Apple did that?

Those are reason enough to pick the Zune over the iPod Classic. No Mac support sucks but I can, and do, use my PC for things like this. No 160GB version? That is a major bummer.

Apocalypse
Oct 3, 2007, 02:12 AM
I don't get it. Microsoft has intelligent people inside it. They see what Apple does. They work with technology. Why don't they make good products? It's as if they want to be laughed at.

Microsoft may have intelligent engineers but their upper management is full of morons. The people who run the company are still stuck in the mid 80's to mid 90's Microsoft strategy mindset. That strategy was to destroy all competition by whichever means possible (including unethical and illegal tactics, of which they've been found guilty and in the EU fined over $600 million), using FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) to discourage people from adopting competing technologies and products, and last but certainly not least, copying existing (and much better) technologies and products and killing off the originals (for instance, DR-DOS was the original and better DOS than Microsoft's).

If you look at Microsoft's products, they have not been successful (read: profitable) with anything except for Windows and Office. In the 90's there was a time when they really were the best option on the PC, because their competitors made lots of stupid mistakes (Apple included). Back then their success was considered deserved (even Steve Jobs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw) said "they've earned their success.. for the most part", circa 1996) However, the only reason they're still dominant in Windows/Office is because of the anti-competitive tactics they've used to create and maintain a monopoly.

Microsoft will probably never make any really good, original products until their current upper management is replaced. Right now the people who run the company don't give half a rat's ass about consumers. This is why their products suck, not because they don't have good engineers. The current management thinks that the way to make a profitable product is to copy something that's successful and then push the original company out of the market, leaving MS as the only option. Of course it won't work with Apple and it won't work with Sony, or any other major company. But that doesn't stop them from trying and hemorrhaging tons of money.

This is why nobody should support Microsoft. They might make products that somewhat resemble what Apple makes, and even sell them cheaper, but these products are subsidized by the monopoly sales of Windows and Office. The Zune is just a poor attempt to undercut Apple, in a desperate move by MS to become profitable in something other than Windows and Office, which they know won't be monopoly cash cows forever.

EricNau
Oct 3, 2007, 02:20 AM
So, they replace the brown with diarrhea green? ...They clearly don't get it.

sfoalex
Oct 3, 2007, 02:21 AM
The only reason someone would get a Zune, from what I can derive, is because iTunes on Windows is absolute crap. All my friends who are power users on Windows absolutely hate iTunes. But they love their iPods. I don't know why because iTunes works great in Mac OS X. But they hate it. They complain about crashes, memory leacks, how when you try to quit it it stalls, etc. I wouldn't be concerned if it was just one but it's four different friends. So if there was a MP3 player out there that works even remotely as well as the iPod, they might just dump the iBandwagon and go with a Zune.

It's sad really. What makes Apple so great is that they make the software and the hardware. Something Microsoft has begun emulating.

I was a pretty hardcore Mac user for years. I owned and operated OSXWORLD.COM. I wrote tons of tutorials for Apple's FCP and DVD Studio Pro. Even published a book on Studio Pro.

But a few years ago after building a PC to run After Effects, I started to use the PC more and more. I like the freedom building my own machine affords. Something Apple won't allow us to do easily.

iTunes on the PC runs about as good as iTunes on the Mac. I owned a dual 2.0 GHz G5 and and standard Pentium 4 3.2 GHz, and they ran pretty much equal. These days, I own a dual XEON PC and a Core2Duo PC, and I still say iTunes runs just as well on the PC as it does on the Mac.

That being said, Windows Media Player, and the Zune Marketplace run circles around iTunes. They are both far far faster. I say that, and my Mac friends don't believe me, until I sit them in front of my PC and prove it. It's simply a fact, iTunes is dog slow. You're simply used to it and don't know better.

I bought a Zune 30 GB about a 6 months ago, give or take, and honestly the interface on the Zune in my opinion is better than the standard iPods, but not as great as the iPhone and iPod Touch. I still own 3 iPods. I am giving my 15 GB iPod away, and the Nano and the mini are sitting somewhere but I forgot where. I have not used them in months, and I have uninstalled iTunes from my PC recently as I have simply stopped using it.

I know most Mac users will adopt what Steve Jobs said about wanting to own music. I like to own some of the music, but not all of it. I simply do not see a downside to the Zune Marketplace where you have a choice to buy, rent, or do both. Seems to me that having a choice is better than not having a choice. Mac users appear to believe that owning is everything, but are quick to forget you can own anything from the Zune Marketplace the same way you would own anything from the iTunes store. There is no difference except that if you wanted to, you could download thousands of songs for the monthly rental fee of $15, and explore thousands of songs without paying thousands of dollars. Then just buy the ones you truly like longer than a month. I explore so much more music with the Zune Marketplace model than I ever did with the iTunes model. I also spend far less overall, so to me, it's a win-win.

In terms of a well refined look of the device, I am of the opinion that the iPod still wins. It has a more classic and refined overall appearance. But after about 2 days of using the Zune 30 GB, I totally didn't care. I found all kinds of things I like about the Zune interface. You just get used to it and in the end, the player sits in my pocket while I listen to music anyway. Honestly, I am not staring at it all day, I am merely listening to it.

I know it will be a cold day in heck before a die-hard Mac fan tries a Zune, but a lot of you are doing what you slam Windows users for doing. That's talking out of your arses. Most of you are team cheerleaders and will buy whatever Apple releases. If Apple built it, you run and buy it. You convince yourself you need it. Look at the signatures in this place. Full of bragging over what machine you have and how many of them you have. It's sad really. I jumped ship because I had to admit to myself there was a better value out there.

Give the Zune an honest look, unless you're afraid you might like it more than what you have now. Gosh, that would just sour the koolaid now wouldn't it.

-Alex

Phormic
Oct 3, 2007, 02:24 AM
Microsoft may have intelligent engineers but their upper management is full of morons. The people who run the company are still stuck in the mid 80's to mid 90's Microsoft strategy mindset. That strategy was to destroy all competition by whichever means possible (including unethical and illegal tactics, of which they've been found guilty and in the EU fined over $600 million), using FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) to discourage people from adopting competing technologies and products, and last but certainly not least, copying existing (and much better) technologies and products and killing off the originals (for instance, DR-DOS was the original and better DOS than Microsoft's).

If you look at Microsoft's products, they have not been successful (read: profitable) with anything except for Windows and Office. In the 90's there was a time when they really were the best option on the PC, because their competitors made lots of stupid mistakes (Apple included). Back then their success was considered deserved (even Steve Jobs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw) said "they've earned their success.. for the most part", circa 1996) However, the only reason they're still dominant in Windows/Office is because of the anti-competitive tactics they've used to create and maintain a monopoly.

Microsoft will probably never make any really good, original products until their current upper management is replaced. Right now the people who run the company don't give half a rat's ass about consumers. This is why their products suck, not because they don't have good engineers. The current management thinks that the way to make a profitable product is to copy something that's successful and then push the original company out of the market, leaving MS as the only option. Of course it won't work with Apple and it won't work with Sony, or any other major company. But that doesn't stop them from trying and hemorrhaging tons of money.

This is why nobody should support Microsoft. They might make products that somewhat resemble what Apple makes, and even sell them cheaper, but these products are subsidized by the monopoly sales of Windows and Office. The Zune is just a poor attempt to undercut Apple, in a desperate move by MS to become profitable in something other than Windows and Office, which they know won't be monopoly cash cows forever.

The strange thing about Microsoft is how weirdly directionless they are. They are a company that REACTS to what goes on in the industry and formulates a strategy in response. Online advertising is really successful - let's crush Google. Lots of money in gaming - let's do a Playstation. Facebook seems popular - let's invest in them. Haven't Apple been successful lately - let's do an iPod. No overall strategy, just ad hoc floundering.

The days have gone when Microsoft dictated the agenda. Now they're just a gigantic "me too" company. The only problem is that every new direction they go in just ends in failure. They can't rely on Windows and Office forever.

LoganT
Oct 3, 2007, 02:30 AM
If I wasn't planning on buying an iPhone and I needed 80 GB's of storage I would probably get the Zune 2. Also it would have to work with Mac, I'm not booting up Windows in VMWare just so I can sync my music.

Loge
Oct 3, 2007, 02:32 AM
Still no plans to sell outside the US, or did I miss that?

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 02:33 AM
I don't think 'Zune' is a bad name. I think iRiver is the worst. Pathetic actually.

Um, what's wrong with iRiver?

winterspan
Oct 3, 2007, 02:39 AM
Do they really call is squirting? Honestly, if a brown Zune squirts . . . . . .

If a brown zune squirts in a forest and no one is around to...

Merkuryy
Oct 3, 2007, 02:43 AM
[QUOTE=Macrumors;4274972]

Other features include a touch-sensitive navigation button allowing users to slide their finger up/down/left/right to navigate around the screen.

Some people already complain navigating in a 80G iPod with click-wheel is difficult, now with a button,that's tougher,what's Microsoft thinking about?

Also look at the article, they don't even have the courage to show their battery life comparing to that of the iPod lines

HyperZboy
Oct 3, 2007, 02:49 AM
Damn I'm gonna miss the $ht brown color. Now I'll have to choose between puke green or the Barbie doll pink dress color. :p

synth3tik
Oct 3, 2007, 02:49 AM
oh, for ugly.

ebouwman
Oct 3, 2007, 02:58 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

definately a good point, the only problem is that i've NEVER actually seen one!!:confused::rolleyes::D

also the fact that theres no osx support kinda turns me away from them

MacsAttack
Oct 3, 2007, 03:00 AM
Still no plans to sell outside the US, or did I miss that?

I didn't see anything...

MicroSofts failure to address the international market is (in my eyes) a major flaw in their Zune strategy. They have given competitors a year or more to entrench themsleves in those markets.

The other problem of course is that thing move on. The iPod touch looks quite good on paper. I just had a chance to play with one yesterday for about an hour. For once there is a product that almost lives up to the hype. :D

I can't help thinking that the iPod Touch was rushed to market however. Not that I didn't think we would see a device like it. I just thought Apple would replace the iPod by bolting the new hard drive onto the back of the touch. WiFi was also a feature I had not expected to see. The fact that (unlike the iPod Classic) the Touch was not "ready to go" was a little odd.

Not that I am complaining. Yes, there are other players out there - many of them less expensive than the iPod Touch - but its just not the same... ;)

MicroSoft's approach the the Zune has been curiously half-hearted - and their continuing failure to inovate is hurting. Now, what Apple is doing isn't that inovative either (heresy you all cry), but their true genius has been integrating things into the whole package with some solid designs. And that is why Apple has hammered the competition. They could have turned the iPod Touch (or the iPhone) into an all-singing-all-dancing PAD. They didn't. Not yet anyway. Those features will show up over time as Apple trickles them out to keep one step ahead of everyone else. We saw it with the evolution of the iPod. Now we probably will see it with the Touch/iPhone/WhateverTheNextProductIsCalled.

Dublo7
Oct 3, 2007, 03:03 AM
Colour me impressed. It's great that Zune 1.0 users will get the exact same functionality as Zune 2.0.
The customers are not getting left behind, which is great.
I can't wait to try out the 2.0 firmware on my old Zune.

imacdaddy
Oct 3, 2007, 03:05 AM
A stethoscope as a navagation wheel. Now that's original!

hulugu
Oct 3, 2007, 03:08 AM
I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn

Maybe they're finally learning. This is interesting.

...Give the Zune an honest look, unless you're afraid you might like it more than what you have now. Gosh, that would just sour the koolaid now wouldn't it...

This is a tiresome cliche around here. Your story is interesting, but ultimately this doesn't tell us much about the viability of the Zune business model, how good the Zune experience is, or really much at all except for your neat story. While I would agree that there are rabid Mac-users (just as there are rabid adherents to anything) and many of them troll this very forum, I find it insulting that you can try to dismiss the critiques of the Zune (or anything for that matter) with some quip about 'kool-aid.'
Frankly, if you're a Mac user commenting in a Mac user forum and there's a cult, you belong to it.

kamiboy
Oct 3, 2007, 03:13 AM
Someone start a petition to demand m$ make a brown version of the new Zunes. Then we can all point and laugh again. Ah..... so many great poo jokes, thanks for the memories m$.

skwoytek
Oct 3, 2007, 03:17 AM
Don't know if this has been mentioned, the WiFi syncing is not automatic unless the Zune is plugged into a charging source. You can always do a manual WiFi sync without a power source.

This seems to almost miss the point of WiFi Syncing. If I have to manually start it or dock it to a power source, I might as well just dock it.

tjcampbell
Oct 3, 2007, 03:20 AM
I think they look great and that's a very good thing. The iPod needs some healthy competition. It drives companies to make better products and drops prices.

ddubbo
Oct 3, 2007, 03:20 AM
Microsoft may have intelligent engineers but their upper management is full of morons. The people who run the company are still stuck in the mid 80's to mid 90's Microsoft strategy mindset. That strategy was to destroy all competition by whichever means possible (including unethical and illegal tactics, of which they've been found guilty and in the EU fined over $600 million), using FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) to discourage people from adopting competing technologies and products, and last but certainly not least, copying existing (and much better) technologies and products and killing off the originals (for instance, DR-DOS was the original and better DOS than Microsoft's).

If you look at Microsoft's products, they have not been successful (read: profitable) with anything except for Windows and Office. In the 90's there was a time when they really were the best option on the PC, because their competitors made lots of stupid mistakes (Apple included). Back then their success was considered deserved (even Steve Jobs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw) said "they've earned their success.. for the most part", circa 1996) However, the only reason they're still dominant in Windows/Office is because of the anti-competitive tactics they've used to create and maintain a monopoly.

Microsoft will probably never make any really good, original products until their current upper management is replaced. Right now the people who run the company don't give half a rat's ass about consumers. This is why their products suck, not because they don't have good engineers. The current management thinks that the way to make a profitable product is to copy something that's successful and then push the original company out of the market, leaving MS as the only option. Of course it won't work with Apple and it won't work with Sony, or any other major company. But that doesn't stop them from trying and hemorrhaging tons of money.

This is why nobody should support Microsoft. They might make products that somewhat resemble what Apple makes, and even sell them cheaper, but these products are subsidized by the monopoly sales of Windows and Office. The Zune is just a poor attempt to undercut Apple, in a desperate move by MS to become profitable in something other than Windows and Office, which they know won't be monopoly cash cows forever.
Your forgot professional division. Server 2003, SQL server and MSDN now it's about a third of their revenue today. Actually you're right. The tactics of Microsoft is to copy something, and bring 80% of performance of this product for only 30% of the price. In my opinion it's very important for the market. No matter who invents something, the matter is who can bring it to the market and make it affordable. Apple invented PC but MS and IBM brought it to average consumer. Without tens of millions housewives who could use their win95 and win98 machines web still was an experimental toy.Now we need someone, probably Microsoft again, who will copy iPhone and will bring it to the market in normal, unlocked and unlimited way

ebouwman
Oct 3, 2007, 03:29 AM
Um, what's wrong with iRiver?

i'm not sure about the actual device, although i've heard it's pretty good, but the name just stucks, it's just like what people say about M$ it's just trying to milk the sucess of the iPod, i HATE products that put an "i" in front of the name because they no it's what apple does, it's like their little signature, it may not be a great signature but it is something that you associate with apple.
So when a company uses the "i" it's like they're just trying to milk the sucess of apple instead of making up their own thing.

Kipling
Oct 3, 2007, 03:32 AM
1.2 million zunes sold. Seems like a lot more than I expected. How does that compare with the iPod?

iPods sold around 10m in each of the last two quarters, and 21m in the last holiday/Christmas quarter. Over the last 12 months, iPods have outsold Zunes by a ratio of 42 to 1.

Of course, there are cheaper iPods, so the comparison isn't exact; but really, Sandisk is the true number 2 we should all be discussing (except that it's just so much fun to insult Microsoft, isn't it?:D)

ddubbo
Oct 3, 2007, 03:36 AM
iPods sold around 10m in each of the last two quarters, and 21m in the last holiday/Christmas quarter. Over the last 12 months, iPods have outsold Zunes by a ratio of 42 to 1.

Of course, there are cheaper iPods, so the comparison isn't exact; but really, Sandisk is the true number 2 we should all be discussing (except that it's just so much fun to insult Microsoft, isn't it?:D)
I suppose, Microsoft, if was aware of your existence, will think about you bad way, too

ImNoSuperMan
Oct 3, 2007, 03:39 AM
No OS X support. :(

Why do you need that for:confused:

Kipling
Oct 3, 2007, 03:39 AM
i'm not sure about the actual device, although i've heard it's pretty good, but the name just stucks, it's just like what people say about M$ it's just trying to milk the sucess of the iPod, i HATE products that put an "i" in front of the name because they no it's what apple does, it's like their little signature, it may not be a great signature but it is something that you associate with apple.
So when a company uses the "i" it's like they're just trying to milk the sucess of apple instead of making up their own thing.

iRiver actually predates the iPod. First one came out in 2000. Still hold 50% share in South Korea, where they come from.

However, they may have been seeking to copy the iMac moniker.

elgruga
Oct 3, 2007, 03:41 AM
Its another M$ scam.

You start a crappy 'zune division', you pump tons of cash into it, which all disappears into 'development and research and set-up' and this enables you to get cash out of the company, ie rip off the shareholders.

The zune, for example, IS a toshiba gigabeat, slightly warmed over.
These million zunes somehow are 'sold' - but we never see the frickin things...

I dont think most people realise what a bunch of stinking thieves the management at M$ are.

As for their stupid products - I presume its posted here so we can have fun slagging them off.
If I had a zune as a gift, I would set fire to it and chuck it off a cliff and watch it crash and burn.

If I actually purchased a zune I would seek immediate psychiatric help.

M$ represent All that is bad in our world, the lies, the ugly side of humanity.

They lose billions of dollars every year on their weird 'products' and crap like MSN and Xbox - its a frickin scam, fer crying out loud!

ahuman7341
Oct 3, 2007, 03:45 AM
i'm not sure about the actual device, although i've heard it's pretty good, but the name just stucks, it's just like what people say about M$ it's just trying to milk the sucess of the iPod, i HATE products that put an "i" in front of the name because they no it's what apple does, it's like their little signature, it may not be a great signature but it is something that you associate with apple.
So when a company uses the "i" it's like they're just trying to milk the sucess of apple instead of making up their own thing.

Actually the first iRiver was released in Nov 2000 whereas the iPod was released in Nov 2001. So the iPod wasn't first in the name game for the PMP market. You could defend Apple saying that the iMac and iBook had been out before the iRiver. All I care about in the end is that there's no iZune.

Edit: some one beat me to it :(

ddubbo
Oct 3, 2007, 03:49 AM
Let me explain. On hebrew the word "zune" just means "fu***ing"

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 03:50 AM
i'm not sure about the actual device, although i've heard it's pretty good, but the name just stucks, it's just like what people say about M$ it's just trying to milk the sucess of the iPod, i HATE products that put an "i" in front of the name because they no it's what apple does, it's like their little signature, it may not be a great signature but it is something that you associate with apple.
So when a company uses the "i" it's like they're just trying to milk the sucess of apple instead of making up their own thing.

This might come as a shock to you, but iRiver got it's name in 1999, long before iPod... Why do you automatically assume that if something is called iSomething, it's automatically a copy of iPod?

samh004
Oct 3, 2007, 03:51 AM
The new flash models look like copies of the old-generation nano's, bet Microsoft isn't happy about the recent design change, they probably couldn't change it at such a late stage.

The red model doesn't appear to be a (red) model, which isn't very good. I think they could of got more market share by introducing it as a (red) model supporting the AIDS charities.

As for the new controller, looks intuitive actually, I'd like to try it out as it looks a lot smarter than a dummy scroll wheel.

ddubbo
Oct 3, 2007, 03:51 AM
This might come as a shock to you, but iRiver got it's name in 1999, long before iPod... Why do you automatically assume that if something is called iSomething, it's automatically a copy of iPod?
Indeed. I owned BMW i330 in 1992

elgruga
Oct 3, 2007, 04:01 AM
Now we need someone, probably Microsoft again, who will copy iPhone and will bring it to the market in normal, unlocked and unlimited way

LOL! Oh yeah, I cant WAIT to get a zune-touch-zphone running vista!
That will be a REAL pleasure.....!

You some kind of masochist? We just got the very first cell phone that ISNT rubbish, and you want the IDIOTS at M$ to copy it?

Sometimes I wonder what freakin planet some of you guys live on.....

The Phone is great because it runs OSX - thats the whole thing - OSX.

You see, its a BETTER OS than freakin vista.

All the OTHER phones run linux and symbian and M$ and they are all CRAP - or do you like to spend an hour sending an email from your phone and then finding that it sent the attached photo in 12 pieces (motorola RAzr for example) I kid you not.

You think M$ could make an iPhone with all the brilliance thats inside it?

NOT A FREAKIN HOPE IN HELL.

They just spent SEVEN YEARS on vista and its JUNK - see the logic here?

Two years on the zune, (and it was ALREADY designed for them), and its only as good as a 5 year old iPod.

Yeah, I know - you just love your N95 or your whatever it is.
So why do you need a M$ copy of an iPhone?

Why are we all so DUMB?

Its like the Bush madness - he says they have WMD - they dont, but they still attack and BILLIONS of bucks disappear - gee, just like M$.

See ANY kind of connection yet?

Hold on to your iPhone - the freakin BARBARIANS are at the gate with their bloody zunes, and their iphone copies, and they hate intelligence and beauty.....

Kipling
Oct 3, 2007, 04:01 AM
The tactics of Microsoft is to copy something, and bring 80% of performance of this product for only 30% of the price. In my opinion it's very important for the market. No matter who invents something, the matter is who can bring it to the market and make it affordable. Apple invented PC but MS and IBM brought it to average consumer. Without tens of millions housewives who could use their win95 and win98 machines web still was an experimental toy.Now we need someone, probably Microsoft again, who will copy iPhone and will bring it to the market in normal, unlocked and unlimited way

Look, I know you think Microsoft are jolly good and all that, but their tactics really don't add to the sum total of human knowledge or advance the technological revolution in any way. They simply use their immense profits from long-established Windows and Office monopolies (effectively a tax on the sale of all non-Mac computers) to distort real markets.

No other company would have been able to waste so much ($5 billion, for Gawd's sake!) on the Xbox, for example – simply to try and damage Sony's Playstation. They're trying the same ploy with the Zune.

Microsoft never 'open things up', as you seem to imply. Their entire modus operandi is to close competitors down. :(

Kipling
Oct 3, 2007, 04:02 AM
I suppose, Microsoft, if was aware of your existence, will think about you bad way, too

I certainly hope so.

shigzeo
Oct 3, 2007, 04:10 AM
id rather not be on the fence here but basically they are two products (ipod and zune) that fulfill the same purpose. both are not really that good for watching video but the zune is better as it has a larger screen.

both use software that is propriety but the ipod is useable on both osx and windows. both are targeted at the mass market but both can sound glorious with the right hardware (amp and good headphones or line out with ipod).

in any case, the zune is not the best looking player on the market but it is a good product with a great introduction model that except for battery life was great: it sounded wonderful.

both companies have heaps to learn however as they are both on the top of their respective niches and in some ways offter less than the competition. that said, itunes smacks windows media easily in every way.

*** IRIVER ***

having used some of their products, they sound fine if you never ever use expensive sensitive iem phones like um2 or e500. they are the worst hissers i have heard. i have a cowon d2 that was proclaimed by many to not hiss and it is the last reason i actually sold my um2 - i could not be bothered by carrying around pmp, amp, ic and phones.

i think iriver is on the last legs of what was a glorious empire years ago. it has not produced audiophile in years now and even those audiophile hissed like a snake garden.

fastbite
Oct 3, 2007, 04:14 AM
They don't look as bad as the original, but still, I won't touch them with a barge pole --

Confidemus
Oct 3, 2007, 04:15 AM
Like in this post:
I was a pretty hardcore Mac user for years. I owned and operated OSXWORLD.COM. I wrote tons of tutorials for Apple's FCP and DVD Studio Pro. Even published a book on Studio Pro.

But a few years ago after building a PC to run After Effects, I started to use the PC more and more. I like the freedom building my own machine affords. Something Apple won't allow us to do easily.

...

Give the Zune an honest look, unless you're afraid you might like it more than what you have now. Gosh, that would just sour the koolaid now wouldn't it.

-Alex

we see, using a Zune is possible.

Apple is setting the standard in the market for electronic music. And in a perspective of five to ten years the market of the HW media CD / DVD will shrink to the size comparable of the venyl market today. And the market will be grown 5 to 10 times in this time. But what will happen to Apple when there is no real competition out there?

1: Apple would become lazy. Like in some other posts about MS is stated, at some point management methods will freeze and 10 years later the company will be looked at as a Dinosaur.

2. In business companies live with and depend on competition. With the competition you play the cat and mouse game. Sometime your shares rock, sometimes the other shares give more profit. There will be fans on this side and fans on that side. So be it.
But as a monopolist, you will loose your fans. The monopolist haters will get stronger and stronger. You will be seen as the devil. And than you will be the mouse being hunted by the Federal Trade Commission and the EU commission. Do we remember the Euro 500 Mill. fine for Microsoft in 2004?
At least the hunter will get their pray.
But what does that mean? Is this correct? In some extend yes. Having a monopolist will NOT force business development. Having a monopolist does not force technical innovation.
(In this case - believe me or not - MS is VERY happy that there is Apple and OS X. They really need it.)

So, I wish the other players in the digital music market also a little bit of luck and may their market share be around 40% at least all together. This would give Apple the market leader position, huge profits, and the possibility to define the standards. And EU commission and the others would keep quiet.

And I'm indeed a happy Mac and iPod user and hopefully a happy iPhone user when it arrives in Germany

Confidemus

Padraig
Oct 3, 2007, 04:20 AM
Looks nice, the price point won't help it though. Had it been 50 dollars cheaper it might have been in a position to do something.


Please, can we have a ban on the use of "m$", it's childish and reeks of insecurity.

Dagless
Oct 3, 2007, 04:34 AM
These have nice features for a device a few years old.

No wonder Apple have nothing to worry about.

elppa
Oct 3, 2007, 04:38 AM
The look pretty decent, certainly not ugly.

I think they are competitive and may do quite well.

We'll see.

benfilan
Oct 3, 2007, 04:41 AM
i wouldnt buy one, but it looks good. i'm kinda sick of all these iPod derivitives tho..... big screen, roundish click wheel...blah blah....:rolleyes:

Padraig
Oct 3, 2007, 04:41 AM
iMac: Introduced October 26, 1998

I seem to remember after Apple started pumping those suckers out the iWhatever trend started to happen more and more. So I guess what I'm try to get at is that iRiver may have derived their name from that...

Any ideas here?


I seriously doubt iRiver is named afer the iMac. I was working in Apple in Cork when we first started manufacturing the iMac, expectations were very low amongst the management. It wasn't referred to in the most flattering terms.
Even the Mac community was polarized.

It would be some time before the success became apparent, so why would a company name itself after it. Decided on a company name and implementing it isn't something that can be done over night.

Wayfarer
Oct 3, 2007, 04:44 AM
No thanks, I'll keep my iPod!

Kipling
Oct 3, 2007, 04:50 AM
i wouldnt buy one, but it looks good. i'm kinda sick of all these iPod derivitives tho..... big screen, roundish click wheel...blah blah....:rolleyes:

Good point. Out in the real world, whenever consumers are standing in a shop and wondering what to buy for their daughter's birthday, they'll be saying to themselves "oh, it looks like an iPod, it costs the same as an iPod... but it's not an iPod. I'll buy the iPod."

People think Microsoft can compete in this space because they dominate in another. That's just not they way the world works.

If they'd really wanted to compete – last year – with such an extraordinarily entrenched market leader, Microsoft should have done something radically different from the iPod.

Like, I dunno, a touch screen music player.

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 04:56 AM
iMac: Introduced October 26, 1998

Imax: introduced in 1967.

So I guess what I'm try to get at is that iRiver may have derived their name from that...

Or maybe not.

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 05:06 AM
Yeah, that sux. But WiFi syncing and a DRM-free store (or rather a store with some DRM-free songs). Apple will have to up the ante on the next gen.

Oh, and God yawned. iTunes already has some DRM-free songs. And you're right: WiFi syncing! You just haven't lived until you've sync'ed 6GB of swapped out music and video via WiFi to a mobile device and it's appropriate mobile-powered processor. Or, rather, you have lived a long, long, long time. Good luck with that. Just gotta squirt those wild tunes all over the two other people in a 1,000 mile radius who own Zunes.? Sync up WiFi style before heading out to work in the morning. But how you gonna pay for those fly tracks? You just lost your job *again* because you were three hours late *again* waiting for your Zune to sync.

Love the new slogan, though: Zune 2. This time, an even bigger flop.

stomer
Oct 3, 2007, 05:09 AM
So the Zune supports AAC, H.264 and the mp4 container format, but Windows Media Player 11 support none of those. I don't get it.

bigandy
Oct 3, 2007, 05:12 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one
I agree completely. This seems like a competent update to the Zune, and just from its improved looks it seems that it could gain market share. It's no more the ugliest MP3 player on the market.


I find it very interesting that Microsoft went with MP3's for their DRM-free format rather than windows media.

Seems out of character for them.

arn
Definitely - but they're seeing the light. They're seeing how to embrace what others are, and that's going to be good for all of us. The more stores selling DRM free MP3s the better. And they've probably done it so iPod users are tempted to use their store for purchasing music ;)

Windows Vista is an abortion! Retailers are flocking back to XP!
Surely you don't mean abortion. Vista wasn't terminated before birth. Retailers are selling more XP boxes, because it's known, it's stable now, and Vista is different. People don't like change. However, XP won't be sold after January 08.. So Vista sales will pick up.

Still no plans to sell outside the US, or did I miss that?
Apparently not. I'd quite like to see how they sell over here, or at least see one of these new ones so I can pass judgment on it.

LOL! Oh yeah, I cant WAIT to get a zune-touch-zphone running vista!
That will be a REAL pleasure.....!

All the OTHER phones run linux and symbian and M$ and they are all CRAP - or do you like to spend an hour sending an email from your phone and then finding that it sent the attached photo in 12 pieces (motorola RAzr for example) I kid you not.

You obviously haven't used the latest Windows Mobile smartphones. They're good. I'm not sure whether to take the plunge and go for an iPhone when they arrive here in the UK, because my current WM5 phone is great. Never had an issue with it. - And everyone I know who's got one (even Apple nerds) love their WM5/6 phones.

MacBiscuit
Oct 3, 2007, 05:12 AM
These are actually quite attractive and certainly better than the first gen. They're slowly catching up.

I haven't found the recent iPods as far ahead design-wise as my old 3G was at the time it came out. The touch/iPhone is nice, but somehow looks a bit cheap to me - if somebody handed me one and told me it was a Samsung or LG device I'd probably believe them (until I turned it on...)

billystlyes
Oct 3, 2007, 05:13 AM
Say what you want, but I would rather have a 80GB Zune than an iPod classic. Apple really needs a hard drive based player with a larger screen. They blew it this holiday season.

Passante
Oct 3, 2007, 05:24 AM
Have not seen that feature mentioned. If not the new Nano will crush it.

I think the AAC and H264 support will help make these the new video standard for TV shows and the like.

Holy ShXt! No more brown Zune. (I just had to say it) :D

ddubbo
Oct 3, 2007, 05:27 AM
If they'd really wanted to compete – last year – with such an extraordinarily entrenched market leader, Microsoft should have done something radically different from the iPod.

Like, I dunno, a touch screen music player.
Good point. All these efforts of MS to enter the filed that absolutely foreign to them just seem ridiculous. I think the problem is that Ballmer contradict himself. He stated many times that the field of hardware is a mess, competition is very strong and margins are low, and MS doesn't interested in it. On the other hand they entered in this weird project with Zune. Anyway - if they want to pull significant marketshare from iPods they should to make product with same performance and pretty lower price. BMO, Zune 80 GB could have a chance with 190$ price tag, big screen is a nice feature. Nano could be priced no more than 100$ for 4GB and 120$ for 8GB. Otherwise no one will buy it, except MS fanboys and Apple haters

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 05:27 AM
You just haven't lived until you've sync'ed 6GB of swapped out music and video via WiFi to a mobile device and it's appropriate mobile-powered processor.

Do you routinely do that? What I (and most other, I would assume) do is that I make one initial sync that moved the library over to the iPod, and after that I just make incremental syncs (few songs at a time). WiFi or even Bluetooth would be more than enough for that.

You just lost your job *again* because you were three hours late *again* waiting for your Zune to sync.

If you really want to sync lots of stuff fast, you could always use the cable....

Is it just me or are you desperately trying to find things to dislike in the new Zune?

gnasher729
Oct 3, 2007, 05:29 AM
Wireless sync might or might not need user intervention to trigger it... but it won't do much for your battery. You're still going to have to plug in to charge.

I guess you charge, then you sync, then you charge again :D

Steflinsky
Oct 3, 2007, 05:29 AM
Ben tien apple a encore copier microsoft.... ;)

Yuppi
Oct 3, 2007, 05:33 AM
The new halo 3 edition allows you to squirt at your enemies ;)
Microsoft will create a very competitive product in some time. I can cleary see that they are on their way improving. The good thing is that they are rolling up the market from behind. Far behind. That is way they are keeping up. Maybe one day Mircosoft will learn that having a Good sync software is more worth than any hardware feature.
I for example love to see my calendar and contacts on my iPod. Something microsoft is lacking..

ddubbo
Oct 3, 2007, 05:39 AM
The new halo 3 edition allows you to squirt at your enemies ;)
Microsoft will create a very competitive product in some time. I can cleary see that they are on their way improving. The good thing is that they are rolling up the market from behind. Far behind. That is way they are keeping up. Maybe one day Mircosoft will learn that having a Good sync software is more worth than any hardware feature.
I for example love to see my calendar and contacts on my iPod. Something microsoft is lacking..
Exactly. I have Sansa, it's a great player, but syncing it to Windows Media Player is a real mess. Every time I create a new playlist, I should restart the program. Sometimes I can't delete the song via WMP, and I should to make it manually, directly from Sansa' flashcard

GoodWatch
Oct 3, 2007, 05:39 AM
Is no-one at all interested in how MP3 players sound? Looks, colours, shapes, all nice but what about what it is made for? Listening to music? :confused:

hms84
Oct 3, 2007, 05:44 AM
I though this was a Mac site :confused:

Project
Oct 3, 2007, 05:46 AM
You obviously haven't used the latest Windows Mobile smartphones. They're good. I'm not sure whether to take the plunge and go for an iPhone when they arrive here in the UK, because my current WM5 phone is great. Never had an issue with it. - And everyone I know who's got one (even Apple nerds) love their WM5/6 phones.


I cant agree with this. At my office, I do not know anybody who loves their WM phone. The hardware is fine. The OS UI is horrid.

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 05:47 AM
Do you routinely do that? What I (and most other, I would assume) do is that I make one initial sync that moved the library over to the iPod, and after that I just make incremental syncs (few songs at a time). WiFi or even Bluetooth would be more than enough for that.



If you really want to sync lots of stuff fast, you could always use the cable....

Is it just me or are you desperately trying to find things to dislike in the new Zune?

This isn't "Microsoft sucks". I loved my 360 until it died due to blast-furnance defect and Microsoft wouldn't fix it under their extended warranty. So, okay, Microsoft does suck. But I still love some 360 games, even if the hardware is trash. But now that they might have a cooler-running model hitting store shelves; I might drop another $400 on a 360 if I think it will last. Maybe today even if it quits raining and the near store has the right lot numbers. If they make a worthwhile product, even a flawed worthwhile product, I'll buy it, Microsoft logo on it or not.

This is "Zune sucks." Because Zune sucks. It's not iPod-ism or Apple-ism. It's that the Zune sucks. I don't have to try and find things to dislike in the new Zune. I keep tripping over them. There is a reason Apple won't implement WiFi sync'ing on iPods yet. It would take a software engineer maybe two seconds and a doughnut to couple the sync layer with WiFi as connection type on network media layer.

A few songs at a time... Say, a couple albums? 25 songs? Call it 128kbps at an average 5MB per song, sums up to 125MB. This is not raw theoretical 802.11g throughput standing a foot from the router (are they g? You'd think they're g, we'll say they're g not b-only). This is not even practical maximum 802.11g throughput. This not even a file-copying procedure at the practical maximum -- which, by the way, try: 125MB takes a bit. This is sync'ing between an embedded-processor device with a proprietary file system and a computer. It's messy. It will take forever and rain the battery.

Telp
Oct 3, 2007, 05:49 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

Yes i have used a Zune before and have been entirely and utterly disappointed. It really does suck.

javaGuru
Oct 3, 2007, 05:57 AM
I wonder if people will be attempting to hack the new Zune and put 3rd party applications on it. And if they do, will they complain if Microsoft attempts to prevent that from happening?

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 06:05 AM
Yes i have used a Zune before and have been entirely and utterly disappointed. It really does suck.

Amen, brother. Zune sucks. If Apple made the same product, I'd say the same thing.

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 06:10 AM
A few songs at a time... Say, a couple albums?

Do you buy that much music between syncs? I plug my iPod to my Mac just about every day, at most I move over 1-2 podcasts and maybe 1-2 songs. And when I plug in the iPod, I usually use the computer for several minutes, and in that case even Bluetooth would be fast enough to sync that content over.

25 songs? Call it 128kbps at an average 5MB per song, sums up to 125MB. This is not raw theoretical 802.11g throughput standing a foot from the router (are they g? You'd think they're g, we'll say they're g not b-only). This is not even practical maximum 802.11g throughput. This not even a file-copying procedure at the practical maximum -- which, by the way, try: 125MB takes a bit.

Using WiFi, 125MB would take about 25 seconds. How would that work? Well, I could start the computer, and start the sync. I would then start to head out the door, and by the time I close my front-door, the sync would be finished. With a cable, I would have to wait by the computer until the sync is finished.

And, at least Zune offers this feature, whereas iPod does not. Don't like wireless syncing? Then don't use it, and use the cable. That way there would be no real difference between the Zune and the iPod. As far as syncing goes, the Zune offers all the features iPod does, while offering something extra that iPod does not offer. Doesn't that mean that as far as syncing goes, Zune beats the iPod?

This is sync'ing between an embedded-processor device with a proprietary file system and a computer.

And it would be radically different if you used a cable? Why?

AlexisV
Oct 3, 2007, 06:18 AM
Even if the Zune had many more features than the iPod, it wouldn't have that 'je ne sais quoi'.

People don't just buy an iPod for it's features, or lack of features. People buy them because 'iPod' is synonymous with MP3 player. It's a brand thing.

Apple iPod and Microsoft Zune. Even if you'd never seen the product, you'd bet the Zune wasn't the cool one.

neilw
Oct 3, 2007, 06:18 AM
The one area where I think the competitors have it over Apple is in screen orientation. The vertical screen allows them to fill more of the face of the unit with screen, and therefore fit a larger screen in the same package. For photo and video viewing, the larger screen would be nice.

Other than that, pretty underwhelming.

TheBonk
Oct 3, 2007, 06:21 AM
I don't have the time to read 7 pages so I'm going to say what I think even if it has been said.

The 80GB has very few features better than the Classic. The screen size being one of them. I could see people getting it to watch their movies on. It's no competitor to the Touch though. Apple still has the upper hand with the Touch.

Zune Pad? How is that not a complete rip-off from the Clickwheel?

Pricing. Eh, Pricing them the same as the iPods isn't really a good idea, especially if Apple updates capacity and price of the Classics and Nanos after January. That'll bring the Zune down once again.

The new Zune doesn't make an impression on me. I'm still going for the Touch. :D

joshwest
Oct 3, 2007, 06:21 AM
Has anyone personally seen a zune in public, only place i've ever seen them is on display at target and even then they have dust collecting on them.. and i see they got rid of the brown color but they introuduced baby poop green

Muzzway
Oct 3, 2007, 06:24 AM
Microsoft seems to think that we (and 6% of the US market) will buy a PC just to be able to get a Zune. :rolleyes:

TheBonk
Oct 3, 2007, 06:24 AM
Has anyone personally seen a zune in public, only place i've ever seen them is on display at target and even then they have dust collecting on them.. and i see they got rid of the brown color but they introuduced baby poop green

Thank god they got rid of the brown! I've seen only one in public. One kid in my gym class has it. It's so square and bulky.

twoodcc
Oct 3, 2007, 06:25 AM
wow, talk about copycats.....geez

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 06:29 AM
Even if the Zune had many more features than the iPod, it wouldn't have that 'je ne sais quoi'.

People don't just buy an iPod for it's features, or lack of features. People buy them because 'iPod' is synonymous with MP3 player. It's a brand thing.

Perhaps, but the points is that we have people saying that Zune sucks for (among other things) since WiFi-syncing is "useless". But at least Zune offers the user the option of using WiFi, whereas iPod does not. As far as syncing goes, Zune offers everything iPod does and more, so I fail to see how that could be used as an argument that "Zune sucks"

diamond.g
Oct 3, 2007, 06:35 AM
Perhaps, but the points is that we have people saying that Zune sucks for (among other things) since WiFi-syncing is "useless". But at least Zune offers the user the option of using WiFi, whereas iPod does not. As far as syncing goes, Zune offers everything iPod does and more, so I fail to see how that could be used as an argument that "Zune sucks"

I think the argument is: Zune != iPod=> therefore it sucks. QED.


I love the bagging on the Xbox... Especially since the Pippin did so well during it's lifetime ;)

zgh1999
Oct 3, 2007, 06:36 AM
Does the largest capacity model come in brown?

These nice devices make me wet my pants! I want one!

TheBonk
Oct 3, 2007, 06:36 AM
Microsoft seems to think that we (and 6% of the US market) will buy a PC just to be able to get a Zune. :rolleyes:

hehe, another thing the iPod has an advantage over the Zune on. iPods work on both Macs and PCs. :D

Telp
Oct 3, 2007, 06:46 AM
Amen, brother. Zune sucks. If Apple made the same product, I'd say the same thing.

that's a good point. I am NOT hitting ON m$ because they aren't apple, its cause they suck. They dont make quality products and they are all ugly. That's why I dont like M$

fiftydollarshoe
Oct 3, 2007, 06:50 AM
Do you buy that much music between syncs? I plug my iPod to my Mac just about every day, at most I move over 1-2 podcasts and maybe 1-2 songs. And when I plug in the iPod, I usually use the computer for several minutes, and in that case even Bluetooth would be fast enough to sync that content over.
Using WiFi, 125MB would take about 25 seconds. How would that work? Well, I could start the computer, and start the sync. I would then start to head out the door, and by the time I close my front-door, the sync would be finished. With a cable, I would have to wait by the computer until the sync is finished.
And, at least Zune offers this feature, whereas iPod does not. Don't like wireless syncing? Then don't use it, and use the cable. That way there would be no real difference between the Zune and the iPod. As far as syncing goes, the Zune offers all the features iPod does, while offering something extra that iPod does not offer. Doesn't that mean that as far as syncing goes, Zune beats the iPod?
And it would be radically different if you used a cable? Why?

I get the feeling that Wi-Fi syncing will not be Wi-Fi syncing.... remember when Zune 1 announced that you could share songs with other Zunes via Wi-Fi ? To later find out that this was not entirely true.... I believe the same with Zune 2.... does this mean every time your Zune goes near your PC it locks up trying to sync... or throws up a dialog with "Do you wish to Sync Zune now ?"... that would kinda of annoy me.... I get the feeling that you won't really be able to update via Wi-Fi….. only playlist counts etc. Microsoft has habit of doing this sort of stuff........ I also get the feeling MS are in this music game to protect their OS market.... they don't really care enough for this to give it a red hot go.... if I had the keys to the city...... ie Outlook, office etc.... I'd be making devices with all of that embedded..... and Halo3-lite....... they could do it but they are scared to give away the cash-cow that is windows/office...... it brings a lot of money.....

MattG
Oct 3, 2007, 06:51 AM
Yuck!
this is what should happen with Zunes:

http://hideapod.com/

That's hilarious...I've got a Zune toting coworker (yes, they do exist) who needs to see that ;)

Stella
Oct 3, 2007, 06:51 AM
Around that time there were a lot of products being called iSomething. Apple got on the bandwagon and kept the naming scheme.

iMac: Introduced October 26, 1998

I seem to remember after Apple started pumping those suckers out the iWhatever trend started to happen more and more. So I guess what I'm try to get at is that iRiver may have derived their name from that...

Kallikinos
Oct 3, 2007, 06:53 AM
Yeah, I'm not reading through 7 pages either but here's my opinion.

Microsoft, give up! iPod won, get over it. I really hope you guys don't think you have a chance against the iPod.

The new Zunes still seem too bulky for me. I've seen a couple of the old ones and they look ugly. I'm going to stick with my Nano for now.

asrai
Oct 3, 2007, 06:54 AM
Awesome site. Try and order one......lol.

LMAO.

asrai
Oct 3, 2007, 06:56 AM
that's a good point. I am NOT hitting ON m$ because they aren't apple, its cause they suck. They dont make quality products and they are all ugly. That's why I dont like M$

Yup, that about sums it up!

Stella
Oct 3, 2007, 06:58 AM
Zune2 still looks kind of ugly - not as ugly as Zune 1.

However, Zune 2 has some nice features:

* I like the auto syncing over WIFI option. Something that Apple could look doing at. Personally, I hate wires. I wouldn't mind if syncing took longer.

* Syncs with Windows Media Center (Can copy TV shows from the PVR)
its the copying TV Shows from a PVR I like ( despite only being WMC).

The sharing over WIFI ( although not new feature ) - again, Apple should have looked into that. It'll be more useful on iPod than Zune - whats the chance you'll meet other person who has a Zune!!! Shame about the 3 play limit - but thats been imposed by the music industry, no doubt.

Overall, the Zune is probably not, once again, and iPod killer, fortunately. The world does not need microsoft dominating the digital player market.

Apple should have added more screen real estate to the iPod classics - a bit difficult to watching movies on that screen.

Increased competition is welcome, even if it is microsoft. It raises the bar and will encourage Apple to do what they do best - innoviating. The iPod Touch was nice ( although, flawed in many ways ).

gifford
Oct 3, 2007, 07:03 AM
I'm soo anoyed MSFT jumped on the social networking side of things with media players first.
I have been saying for the last year AAPL should leverage the ipods into social networking devices. Now they would have to play catchup with the devil.
ipod,iphones, itunes, macbooks, iphoto.
make a social networing site, which shares video, musical, movies, photos.

WHY WHY WHY can Apple not understand the internet. Its the only week link in an otherwise fairly seamless business philosophy .

diamond.g
Oct 3, 2007, 07:09 AM
I'm soo anoyed MSFT jumped on the social networking side of things with media players first.
I have been saying for the last year AAPL should leverage the ipods into social networking devices. Now they would have to play catchup with the devil.
ipod,iphones, itunes, macbooks, iphoto.
make a social networing site, which shares video, musical, movies, photos.

WHY WHY WHY can Apple not understand the internet. Its the only week link in an otherwise fairly seamless business philosophy .

But how do they do that and retain the ease of use? And (preferably) without tying it into .Mac (so it is actually usefule for a Windows user).

Kallikinos
Oct 3, 2007, 07:13 AM
I'm soo anoyed MSFT jumped on the social networking side of things with media players first.
I have been saying for the last year AAPL should leverage the ipods into social networking devices. Now they would have to play catchup with the devil.
ipod,iphones, itunes, macbooks, iphoto.
make a social networing site, which shares video, musical, movies, photos.

WHY WHY WHY can Apple not understand the internet. Its the only week link in an otherwise fairly seamless business philosophy .

I want to go squirting with my iPod!

pale9
Oct 3, 2007, 07:14 AM
one would imagine that MS would hire a couple of hot shot design and marketing geniuses to really take apple head on. but no, thinking in the box still rulez!

what dont they get about that they have to be 2 steps ahead of ipod features and/or design to really make a point. some things that come to my mind would be.... a kick-ass OLED display, built in skype and IM, a couple good games, voice recording, just to name a few.

clevin
Oct 3, 2007, 07:22 AM
How do you know? And Apple has already done this before: 5G iPods got many of the features that were introduced in 5.5G.

its confirmed by everyone

5G and 5.5G? if you call that a update,. may I ask what new features did 5G owner get? You can compare small, minor stuff to the big change like wireless syncing , etc, right?

wow, talk about copycats.....geez
lol, I guess any product priced same as apple is a copycat in your POV?
The 80GB has very few features better than the Classic. The screen size being one of them. I could see people getting it to watch their movies on. It's no competitor to the Touch though. Apple still has the upper hand with the Touch.

I wonder how many people left now still think Touch is a pure iPod, apparently M$ doesn't think so.

and to classic vs. ZUNE 80G, big screen is indeed a big difference, also, wireless syncing.

It's that the Zune sucks. I don't have to try and find things to dislike in the new Zune.
can't find another classic example of nutrition free statement like this. basically, make statement from nothing.

gifford
Oct 3, 2007, 07:25 AM
But how do they do that and retain the ease of use? And (preferably) without tying it into .Mac (so it is actually usefule for a Windows user).

Well scrap the iphoto bit, other than that every bit of software is available to windows.
Apple should open up a new website maybe "iBook" as the names not used anymore ((though they dont own website) AND if they start selling e-books on high res OLED screen, much like an ipod but for books i would probably use the name for that device)

Take a picture of yourself with your iphone, it would then give you an option to upload to iBook.com (lets just use that name for now) either wirelessly, att or through itunes.
Ultimately itunes is the information gatherer which resides on both PC and Mac, it knows what movies, music, and potential much other info (contacts from iphone? very handy)
100,000 ipods
100,000 iphones (over next 4 years)
.mac could co-exist, its a 'pay for' service that does not need nor have to go down the social networking route.

Also wirelessly connect and share images and information with friends via rendezvous.

Social networking is huge, Facebook has killed my forum stone dead overnight!

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 07:26 AM
Zune2 still looks kind of ugly - not as ugly as Zune 1.

Aye, true that.

* I like the auto syncing over WIFI option. Something that Apple could look doing at. Personally, I hate wires. I wouldn't mind if syncing took longer.

I think that Apple should REALLY exploit wireless. I honestly don't understand why their attempts are so half-assed right now, when they could do so much more with minimium of effort. Example:

- Wireless syncing. I too hate wires.
- Wireless streaming. Stream your content from shared itunes-libraries.
- iPod Hifi: Build a Airport Express in to that thing so you could stream music directly to the Hifi from your computer
- Make iPhone and iPod touch work with AirTunes so you could stream FROM those devices as well. And that includes streaming to other iPods.
- Is there any reason why AppleTV couldn't act as a wireless network-extender?

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 07:29 AM
its confirmed by everyone

5G and 5.5G? if you call that a update,. may I ask what new features did 5G owner get? You can compare small, minor stuff to the big change like wireless syncing , etc, right?

How do you define what is a "big change" and what is not? Fact remains that the 5G iPod got many of the new features 5.5G iPod got.

clevin
Oct 3, 2007, 07:32 AM
How do you define what is a "big change" and what is not? Fact remains that the 5G iPod got many of the new features 5.5G iPod got.

just list those features, each reader can define their own opinion. I don't really need to define for them

fiftydollarshoe
Oct 3, 2007, 07:35 AM
Aye, true that.
I think that Apple should REALLY exploit wireless. I honestly don't understand why their attempts are so half-assed right now, when they could do so much more with minimium of effort. Example:

- Wireless syncing. I too hate wires.
- Wireless streaming. Stream your content from shared itunes-libraries.
- iPod Hifi: Build a Airport Express in to that thing so you could stream music directly to the Hifi from your computer
- Make iPhone and iPod touch work with AirTunes so you could stream FROM those devices as well. And that includes streaming to other iPods.
- Is there any reason why AppleTV couldn't act as a wireless network-extender?

??? cos an iPod is a mobile devices not a wireless device for your home.... that would be your iMac/PC/laptop...... which already does all the things you mention bar the syncing..... which come to think of it if you're streaming music fom your PC why would you need to sync it ?

remember shoes first, pants second.....

Loge
Oct 3, 2007, 07:35 AM
5G and 5.5G? if you call that a update,. may I ask what new features did 5G owner get? You can compare small, minor stuff to the big change like wireless syncing , etc, right?


5G owners got gapless playback in the 5.5G update. That was a very signficant feature for many - "the most requested feature" as described by SJ.

TiAdiMundo
Oct 3, 2007, 07:36 AM
This might come as a shock to you, but iRiver got it's name in 1999, long before iPod... Why do you automatically assume that if something is called iSomething, it's automatically a copy of iPod?

Yes, and there was this PDA by Compaq called "iPaq" years before the iPod.

BenRoethig
Oct 3, 2007, 07:37 AM
It is becoming obvious that if the iTMS continues to be primarily a DRM shop, the iTMS is doomed.

First Amazon goes MP3 and now Microsoft.

I'm not really sure Apple cares a whole lot. I don't think they need the iTMS at all. Still, it would be a shame if they aren't able to negotiate the same agreement with the record companies that Amazon and M$ were able to put into place.

I hope history doesn't repeat itself here because I'm seeing flashes of the mac situation in the late 80s/early 90s. When is Apple going to learn that a closed system eventually becomes a liability?

Dagless
Oct 3, 2007, 07:38 AM
The ability to sync with Windows Media Center is huge. That means you can have your PC record a TV show for you and all you have to do is sync. No having to pay $2 an episode on iTunes, whenever it decides to show up.

FM is something I'm still amazed the iPod doesn't have.

What? Firstly-

You must not have an EyeTV. I record all my TV shows, trim out the adverts and send them to my iPod with about 6 clicks, 7 if I have to press Sync in iTunes. I can set my shows to record remotely too, so long as I have access to the internet. And also get an iPod Touch or iPhone to view the recordings remotely, with a bit of trickery I've turned my computer into a veritable slingbox style device.

Zune can do that?

My iPod has a radio function. The same device also acts as a remote control.



I think the iPod Classic will be phased out as flash drives get larger and cheaper.

Definitely. I think the Classic moniker is symbolic to the rapidly changing market. Next year we could be at +80gb with flash. Who knows.
But then where would "classic" style HDD's be at? 240gb? That might hold my collection at the rate its expanding.

Stella
Oct 3, 2007, 07:39 AM
??? cos an iPod is a mobile devices not a wireless device for your home.... that would be your iMac/PC/laptop...... which already does all the things you mention bar the syncing..... which come to think of it if you're streaming music fom your PC why would you need to sync it ?

remember shoes first, pants second.....

His ideas were good.

* Your PC isn't anywhere close to the speakers. Your iPod is.
* You've got content on your PC that isn't on your iPod

Such ideas could definitely be expanded on.

--
Apple should definitely be looking into making the iPod more of a social device - not only 'squirt' (I really dislike that word in this context!) music, but other content such as photos etc.

AdeFowler
Oct 3, 2007, 07:39 AM
Somebody explain this to me:

I thought companies weren't allowed to add features to an already sold product, which is why Apple had to charge a nominal fee for the 8011n to be turned on in MBPs. I believe the iPhone is now sold as some kind of subscription to allow feature updates. Just wondering.

As for the Zune, I think it looks okay. It's Creative, Sony, SanDisk etc., that should be worried.

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 07:43 AM
??? cos an iPod is a mobile devices not a wireless device for your home

That is the most pointless argument I have ever heard. So iPod has been pigeonholed to fit some kind or arbitary definition, and it's then forced to stay within the confines of that definition?

And last time I checked, iPod touch already has wireless. Are you now saying that since "iPod is not a wireless device for your home", I should not use it at home?

that would be your iMac/PC/laptop

Why should I have to carry a laptop with me, if an iPod does many of the same functions?

which already does all the things you mention bar the syncing

Does a laptop fit in to my pocket?

which come to think of it if you're streaming music fom your PC why would you need to sync it ?

Because I could stream from someone else's library? iTunes already supports this feature, is there any reason why iPod couldn't support it? Because it must fit inside some arbitary definition?

iPod COULD do all these things. Why doesn't it? Because it has been pigeonholed to fit some artificial definition?

blake-yo
Oct 3, 2007, 07:44 AM
If you want to switch then go ahead.But it would be stupid...Microsoft is nothing but a copier.The new zune looks like a verizon phone! Big deal if they have wirless syncing and sample sharing...we have the best portable web browser ever(which im posting from now)and we have a portable music... I mean come on.

clevin
Oct 3, 2007, 07:45 AM
5G owners got gapless playback in the 5.5G update. That was a very signficant feature for many - "the most requested feature" as described by SJ.

Im sure SJ will say that, don't you think so?

anyway, is that the complete list?

fiftydollarshoe
Oct 3, 2007, 07:49 AM
His ideas were good.

* Your PC isn't anywhere close to the speakers. Your iPod is.
* You've got content on your PC that isn't on your iPod

Such ideas could definitely be expanded on.

--
Apple should definitely be looking into making the iPod more of a social device - not only 'squirt' (I really dislike that word in this context!) music, but other content such as photos etc.

Oh dear............iPod is not social ? You should see the touch...... I never had a device that all my friends use to look through iTunes and my music collection and browse the web......... squirting is not social its just rude..... facebook is social not forcing Britney Spears tracks onto a friends Zune.... and with wireless up to 50 ft why wouldn’t your PC not be close enough ? not heard of a wireless router ? Why would you use a device with a limited battery life to be your musical hub ? ipod is for mobile not for home use…. That’s the iMac or Apple TV…………..

fiftydollarshoe
Oct 3, 2007, 07:52 AM
That is the most pointless argument I have ever heard. So iPod has been pigeonholed to fit some kind or arbitary definition, and it's then forced to stay within the confines of that definition?
And last time I checked, iPod touch already has wireless. Are you now saying that since "iPod is not a wireless device for your home", I should not use it at home?
Why should I have to carry a laptop with me, if an iPod does many of the same functions?
Does a laptop fit in to my pocket?
Because I could stream from someone else's library? iTunes already supports this feature, is there any reason why iPod couldn't support it? Because it must fit inside some arbitary definition?
iPod COULD do all these things. Why doesn't it? Because it has been pigeonholed to fit some artificial definition?

Correct they are all the things I use my touch for but its not meant to be a music hub for home... it has a limited battery life and all the music that’s on your pod is on your PC...... why are you trying to shove a square peg into a round hole ? You say you cant put a laptop in your pocket and that’s my point.... touch/iPod is a mobile device........ thanks for agreeing with me. period. end of story. Game set match 50dollarshoes. :p:p:p:p:p

chicagostars
Oct 3, 2007, 07:53 AM
[yawn.]

TiAdiMundo
Oct 3, 2007, 07:54 AM
I don't get why most of the people here aren't really critical but only try to bash MS.

There are some good things to say about the Zune. That wireless sharing feature for example is very usefull to discover new music even with its limitations. Even after the 3 plays of a shared song (compare this with the 30 sec preview on iTunes!), it's a nice thing to have all the artist and title information stored on your Zune so that you easily can buy that song later. And sharing of photos? Damn, thats cool!

Yeah, it's not a perfect product but it's only a start and yes, MS copied the DRM-hell from Apple which is also a bad thing. But they really try to focus on independent artists (pre-loaded content), community and sharing. Much more than Apple does.

DavidLeblond
Oct 3, 2007, 07:54 AM
Yes, and there was this PDA by Compaq called "iPaq" years before the iPod.

Ah yes, but the iMac was introduced in 1998, before both of them. (iPod in 2001, iPAQ in 2000)

gifford
Oct 3, 2007, 07:55 AM
A friend just asked why anyone would join Apples social networking site than Facebooks already existing site....

Because with apples many million devices, it could be made a '1click' possibility to join in (rather than going through the painful process of uploading to facebook, physicaly typing in your favouite movies , music......" this could all be done with one click on itunes, then use contacts from iphone to invite friends from. bang facebook dead in a day.

Incidently facebook is worth between $10-50 Billion, not to be sniffed at.
Apple could also run widgets as apps on the site, the pieces are there do it APPLE!!!! Before you miss the opportunity.

fiftydollarshoe
Oct 3, 2007, 07:57 AM
A friend just asked why anyone would join Apples social networking site than Facebooks already existing site....

Because with apples many million devices, it could be made a '1click' possibility to join in (rather than going through the painful process of uploading to facebook, physicaly typing in your favouite movies , music......" this could all be done with one click on itunes, then use contacts from iphone to invite friends from. bang facebook dead in a day.

Incidently facebook is worth between $10-50 Billion, not to be sniffed at.
Apple could also run widgets as apps on the site, the pieces are there do it APPLE!!!! Before you miss the opportunity.

facebook already run an touch/iphone version of their site....... iphone.facebook.com...... even amazon has an iphone version of its site...... its already begun.....

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 07:58 AM
First of all: could you cut down on the "......."? It makes your text really hard to read.

Oh dear............iPod is not social?

Not really. It's one device, one listener.

You should see the touch

What about the touch?

I never had a device that all my friends use to look through iTunes and my music collection and browse the web

And you still don't have one. You COULD have one, but for some reason you do not.

facebook is social not forcing Britney Spears tracks onto a friends Zune

You are starting to lose me here....

and with wireless up to 50 ft why wouldn’t your PC not be close enough?

Because I might be over at my friends house? Because my PC is shut down? Because I don't feel like gettin up from the sofa and walk over the workdesk where the computer is located?

Why would you use a device with a limited battery life to be your musical hub?

Because it might be the best device for that particular purpose at that particular moment? Because I might be over at a friends house and then say "hey, I have a cool movie on my iPod, why don't we watch it with your AppleTV?

ipod is for mobile not for home use

Sez who? Is there a warning somewhere that says "you are not supposed to use your iPod at home!"? And if iPod is not meant for home-use, how do you explain those multitude of iPod-speakers that are available? Please explain iPod Hifi? Please explain TV-out in the iPod?

That’s the iMac or Apple TV…………..

But the point is that you could use the iPod to supply content to those devices. You can already take your laptop to a friends house, and stream content from that laptop to his AppleTV. Why not do the same with the iPod? I can already access my co-workers shared iTunes-library through my laptop. Why couldn't I do that with my iPod as well?

VaDor
Oct 3, 2007, 08:00 AM
I am sorry but zune is just ugly ugly ugly.. and discriminating Mac OS X is another attend to people only use windows... my god..

And zune remember me the second gen ipod video ripped in a very ugly way...

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 08:01 AM
Correct they are all the things I use my touch for but its not meant to be a music hub for home

Explain iPod Hifi then.

it has a limited battery life and all the music that’s on your pod is on your PC

And I might not be near my PC.

why are you trying to shove a square peg into a round hole?

I'm not.

You say you cant put a laptop in your pocket and that’s my point.... touch/iPod is a mobile device

Would wireless-streaming make it any less mobile? ...............

thanks for agreeing with me. period. end of story. Game set match 50dollarshoes. :p:p:p:p:p

I'm sorry, but you are 105% wrong............... ......... .......

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 08:02 AM
Im sure SJ will say that, don't you think so?

anyway, is that the complete list?

IIRC, the software-features that 5.5G got were gapless-playback, search and games. And 5G got all those features.

Loge
Oct 3, 2007, 08:03 AM
Im sure SJ will say that, don't you think so?

anyway, is that the complete list?

Well, there was also the initial letter scrolling indicator (not search though), but that was not really a big deal.

Is gapless playback supported on the Zune, btw?

maccam
Oct 3, 2007, 08:03 AM
Eh, That pink Zune is gonna rock :cool: Still love my Nano!

Kuska
Oct 3, 2007, 08:11 AM
Was checking out the pictures and trying to decide if these units were OK looking or just plain ugly - Conclusion - If you look at them for too long they just look like they are 'shouting angrily' :D

mrrory
Oct 3, 2007, 08:12 AM
Wow. I have an iPhone. Zune Schmune. :cool:

PuppyLuv
Oct 3, 2007, 08:19 AM
I think most of you are being quite ridiculous in this topic. Now as a lover of both Microsoft AND Apple I think all this crap should stop. There's nothing wrong with the fact Microsoft made another product similiar to compete, competition is good. For those of you who love iPods, it will probably make your iPods better as Apple is now competing with them.

Now if I had to choose between an iPod or a Zune 2 it would be a Zune, but I'm getting an IPhone as I need a new phone and I want an Apple product for a change, but the reason I would choose the Zune 2 is because it's not widespread. The iPod is so mainstream and everywhere I go I see one, I'm sitting in computer class with several kids using them nearby as we speak. I would want something unique, pretty much the same reason I chose the IPhone. It's expensive and not many people have it, infact I've never seen an IPhone in person yet. Mine is still boxed, sadly I can't use it until Christmas.

Both Microsoft and Apple have their pros and cons, but it would be useless trying to get some Apple fan boys to realize that, the same way its hard as heck to get Microsof fanboys to accept Apple.

LOL! Oh yeah, I cant WAIT to get a zune-touch-zphone running vista!
That will be a REAL pleasure.....!

You some kind of masochist? We just got the very first cell phone that ISNT rubbish, and you want the IDIOTS at M$ to copy it?

Sometimes I wonder what freakin planet some of you guys live on.....

The Phone is great because it runs OSX - thats the whole thing - OSX.

You see, its a BETTER OS than freakin vista.

All the OTHER phones run linux and symbian and M$ and they are all CRAP - or do you like to spend an hour sending an email from your phone and then finding that it sent the attached photo in 12 pieces (motorola RAzr for example) I kid you not.

You think M$ could make an iPhone with all the brilliance thats inside it?

NOT A FREAKIN HOPE IN HELL.

They just spent SEVEN YEARS on vista and its JUNK - see the logic here?

Two years on the zune, (and it was ALREADY designed for them), and its only as good as a 5 year old iPod.

Yeah, I know - you just love your N95 or your whatever it is.
So why do you need a M$ copy of an iPhone?

Why are we all so DUMB?

Its like the Bush madness - he says they have WMD - they dont, but they still attack and BILLIONS of bucks disappear - gee, just like M$.

See ANY kind of connection yet?

Hold on to your iPhone - the freakin BARBARIANS are at the gate with their bloody zunes, and their iphone copies, and they hate intelligence and beauty.....
As I said before both Apple and MS have their pos and cons.. I dual boot and run both Windows Vista Home Premium and XP Media Center Edition, I've never had any problems with Vista and I think it's their best operating system yet, but it does need to be stablized.

Either way it's just your opinion, it's not a fact that OSX is better. Everyone has their own opinion, I prefer Windows and I HAVE used a mac before, but I still want to get a macbook in the future. That's just MY opinion, while you have yours.

mdelaney123
Oct 3, 2007, 08:20 AM
The ability to sync with Windows Media Center is huge. That means you can have your PC record a TV show for you and all you have to do is sync. No having to pay $2 an episode on iTunes, whenever it decides to show up.

FM is something I'm still amazed the iPod doesn't have.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

We switched to using Windows Media Center to record ALL of out HD content for free with an antenna. Media Center, IMHO is better than TiVo. We use a PC in the basement and stream the content to our HD TV with an Xbox 360. We also have out entire music collection, all of our photos, our home movies, and several ripped DVDs that we can easily access with Media Center.

Now, with the new Zune being able to wirelessly sync with all of that free TV content... I AM SOLD! ! !

And I have to agree that iTunes on Windows is DOG SLOW and quite frankly I bet MS knows this is a serious weakness for Apple.

I movied my music library from my Mac to my MediaCenter PC so I could access it from the 360, and since doing so, have HATED iTUNES!

So, now MS has a MUCH BETTER alternative to Apple TV, and they have tied in their music player to it...

This is pretty big guys. There a WAY too many Windows iTunes users. Many of them will be VERY attracting to being able to get to their TV content!

SkyBell
Oct 3, 2007, 08:22 AM
Now I'm not gonna be all biased and say ZUNE SUCKS! I've never tried one. Scrap that...I've never even SEEN one!

At least if I saw one the person would be seen as "original". The iPod is THE MP3 player in this universe. Apple has gone too far ahead of others to catch up.

I don't even think windows users would go for a zune. I used to be a windows user and still had iPods!

At my uni, you would think Apple has 99% market share...everyone with a laptop has a mac, and everyone with an mp3 player an iPod. It really is a revolution.

I've seen a first gen Zune.

Thick.As.Hell. We're talking 1G iPod thick.
http://techepics.com/files/firstipod.jpg

Rojo
Oct 3, 2007, 08:24 AM
Now if I had to choose between an iPod or a Zune 2 it would be a Zune, but I'm getting an IPhone as I need a new phone and I want an Apple product for a change, but the reason I would choose the Zune 2 is because it's not widespread. The iPod is so mainstream and everywhere I go I see one, I'm sitting in computer class with several kids using them nearby as we speak. I would want something unique, pretty much the same reason I chose the IPhone. It's expensive and not many people have it, infact I've never seen an IPhone in person yet.

Seriously?
People still do this?
They purposely buy an inferior product because not enough other people have it, so it make them feel more "special"?

That really baffles me. :confused:

TimTheEnchanter
Oct 3, 2007, 08:31 AM
What? Seriously, NO BROWN?!?!
Thats the last straw...I'm out. ;)

PuppyLuv
Oct 3, 2007, 08:35 AM
Seriously?
People still do this?
They purposely buy an inferior product because not enough other people have it, so it make them feel more "special"?

That really baffles me. :confused:
I'd rather buy something unique than something nearly every teen in America has. I'm not saying anythings wrong with the iPod, I like it, bit its too mainstream for me..

suneohair
Oct 3, 2007, 08:35 AM
Most of you sound like whiny babies in the playground. Crying because your friend got new and much better shiny toy.

Get over yourselves. Competition means better things for everyone. If the Zune had OS X support, I would give it a look. There are better devices than the iPod. Get over it.

PuppyLuv
Oct 3, 2007, 08:38 AM
Most of you sound like whiny babies in the playground. Crying because your friend got new and much better shiny toy.

Get over yourselves. Competition means better things for everyone. If the Zune had OS X support, I would give it a look. There are better devices than the iPod. Get over it.
I couldn't agree more.

jouster
Oct 3, 2007, 08:42 AM
I must admit, I'm a little bit impressed. The new zunes are much much less complet crap compared to the first generation ones. :D

The first gen ones now have all the new features.

princealfie
Oct 3, 2007, 08:42 AM
Yes, both iPod and Zune are pretty awesome IMHO :)

Consultant
Oct 3, 2007, 08:43 AM
So before everyone goes off on an "OMG ZUNE SUX LOLZ!!!!" tirade, have you actually used a Zune before? Or are you just saying that stuff because Microsoft makes them?


I've never used a Zune, so I'll reserve judgement until I've at least touched one. And you should too, because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one


Google Zune review, top hit:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/15/zune-review/

Quote: "We came away underwhelmed and not at all surprised -- and why? The expectations were for Microsoft to deliver a "Microsoft" player and system; maybe not too shabby looking, but not very usable, and definitely bug-ridden."

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 08:44 AM
You don't get it. WiFi sync is not useless in my opinion. I would love it, love it, love it, if Apple would implement WiFi sync for all non-media data on my iPhone -- you know, calendars, contacts, um, ahem, notes and to-do lists!!!!

Here is the deal: You calculate 125MB at 40 Mbps -- which you won't get, you'll get 36 max, maybe 40 if you stand right by your WiFi router the whole sync, which is like having to stand right by your Mac. That is a finite number of megabytes transmitted using a finite transfer speed given in bits. Saying a 125MB WiFi sync on g will take about 25 seconds is like saying, I have to get 10 miles from point A to B, the speed limit the whole way is 60 MPH, so it will take me ten minutes to get there. But you have to find your car keys, go out and start your car, back out of the parking space, pull out onto the highway, accelerate up to maximum speed limit, slow down for lane-changers, deal with various traffic-related reduction off your maximum speed limit, park at your destination, turn off the car, take the keys out, lock the car, and walk inside.

Sync'ing is not the same as transferring bits from one place to the other in a vacuum. It's not even the same as a file copy over WiFi. Which you should try. If you have a couple 802.11g Macs on a home WiFi g network, copy 125MB of data over WiFi, record the time from initiate copy to copy finished and see if it comes anywhere near even 36 Mbps. It won't. There's security, connection negotiation, check-summing, all this involved.

Sync'ing is worse. Sync'ing has to verify allowable connection, like logging in, to the master device, the computer; it has to determine what has changed and what hasn't, and that can be wonky in and of itself -- ever notice iTunes recopying 4 or 5 songs you know you haven't touched? Well, you did something somewhere causing iTunes to think they changed, you just have no idea what, but it will recopy them. A few songs, no big deal. 400MB video file it decides to recopy, whole different story. Okay, so now we know what's needs to be copied, to be sync'ed. Now we have to have a discussion about where that stuff goes. First we have to find out if we even have room to copy. Sure, there's 10GB open. But we have to ask and get an answer, don't we? Then we have to put the right stuff in the right place and then we have to tell the Zune what it is we put and where we put it and we have to ask the Zune to check and report back that it understood what we told it and verify indeed it did as instructed. Then we have to update the computer side about recent little WiFi sync. Then we have to say bye-bye in a clean manner.

For small bits of text-based data, like calendar items, contacts, this is not such a big deal over WiFi. It's quick to send and easy to verify. But for media, not so. Flip a bit in a 5MB song transfer and we trash the whole song. Won't play. So we have to really examine that file to make sure it's the same as resides on the master, the computer.

Just as WiFi is good for copying word processing files around your house, WiFi is fine for sync'ing simple, small amounts of data, mostly ASCII strings, with a high tolerance for error. But you don't want to ship big, say, Photoshop files around your house via WiFi. Not if you do it all the time.

As for Bluetooth, it can actually be faster for certain kinds of file transfers. Although sync'ing is still a different business. At any rate, it still keeps you parked near your Mac.

WiFi sync'ing rich media to/from media players is a poor user experience. It is a checkbox item on the feature list at the expense of good design.

Do you buy that much music between syncs? I plug my iPod to my Mac just about every day, at most I move over 1-2 podcasts and maybe 1-2 songs. And when I plug in the iPod, I usually use the computer for several minutes, and in that case even Bluetooth would be fast enough to sync that content over.



Using WiFi, 125MB would take about 25 seconds. How would that work? Well, I could start the computer, and start the sync. I would then start to head out the door, and by the time I close my front-door, the sync would be finished. With a cable, I would have to wait by the computer until the sync is finished.

And, at least Zune offers this feature, whereas iPod does not. Don't like wireless syncing? Then don't use it, and use the cable. That way there would be no real difference between the Zune and the iPod. As far as syncing goes, the Zune offers all the features iPod does, while offering something extra that iPod does not offer. Doesn't that mean that as far as syncing goes, Zune beats the iPod?



And it would be radically different if you used a cable? Why?

ruckus
Oct 3, 2007, 08:46 AM
...because you don't like it when Windows fanboys go "OMG MAC SUX0RS!!!!" when they've never used one

There are no windows fanboys. Just anti-apple boys. I mean c'mon, who could get excited over windows?

:P

PuppyLuv
Oct 3, 2007, 08:47 AM
There are no windows fanboys. Just anti-apple boys. I mean c'mon, who could get excited over windows?

:P
Um, I would? But I'm also an Apple fanboy :P Apparently you've never visited a Windows forum have you..?

Whotheheck
Oct 3, 2007, 08:48 AM
What? Firstly-

You must not have an EyeTV. I record all my TV shows, trim out the adverts and send them to my iPod with about 6 clicks, 7 if I have to press Sync in iTunes. I can set my shows to record remotely too, so long as I have access to the internet. And also get an iPod Touch or iPhone to view the recordings remotely, with a bit of trickery I've turned my computer into a veritable slingbox style device.

Zune can do that?

My iPod has a radio function. The same device also acts as a remote control.


Yes, the Zune can do that and, unlike the iPod, you can do that without having to buy anything extra. The only exception is the sync to the Zune remotely from a different location but, then again, neither can the iPod unless you use third party software. I don't have to be at my PC to tell it to record something. I can program it from another PC. Hell I can access it from my 360 and that's with no additional software!

I'd love to see how your iPod gets FM 'cause my 5.5G iPod sure doesn't have that feature and it was not announced for the classic.

Evangelion
Oct 3, 2007, 08:49 AM
Here is the deal: You calculate 125MB at 40 Mbps -- which you won't get, you'll get 36 max

So what? So it takes a bit longer, big frigging deal. If you are in a hurry, use the damn cable.

Saying a 125MB WiFi sync on g will take about 25 seconds is like saying, I have to get 10 miles from point A to B, the speed limit the whole way is 60 MPH, so it will take me ten minutes to get there.

feel free to adjust the 25 seconds to one minute if you feel like it. But still: fact remains that by the time I head out the door, the sync is complete.

For small bits of text-based data, like calendar items, contacts, this is not such a big deal over WiFi.

I routinely use Bluetooth for that, and WiFi is a lot faster...

WiFi sync'ing rich media to/from media players is a poor user experience. It is a checkbox item on the feature list at the expense of good design.

And what would you say if Zune actually has very good WiFi-syncing? And Wifi-syncing seems to be working on the AppleTV just fine.

SkyBell
Oct 3, 2007, 08:50 AM
Correct they are all the things I use my touch for but its not meant to be a music hub for home... it has a limited battery life and all the music that’s on your pod is on your PC...... why are you trying to shove a square peg into a round hole ? You say you cant put a laptop in your pocket and that’s my point.... touch/iPod is a mobile device........ thanks for agreeing with me. period. end of story. Game set match 50dollarshoes. :p:p:p:p:p

Do you happen to be 10?
Kidding.
Sure the iPod is a mobile device. Doesn't mean you can't use it at home. I listen to my iPod Shuffle when going to sleep.

Consultant
Oct 3, 2007, 08:54 AM
The only reason someone would get a Zune, from what I can derive, is because iTunes on Windows is absolute crap. All my friends who are power users on Windows absolutely hate iTunes. But they love their iPods. I don't know why because iTunes works great in Mac OS X. But they hate it. They complain about crashes, memory leacks, how when you try to quit it it stalls, etc. I wouldn't be concerned if it was just one but it's four different friends. So if there was a MP3 player out there that works even remotely as well as the iPod, they might just dump the iBandwagon and go with a Zune.

It's sad really. What makes Apple so great is that they make the software and the hardware. Something Microsoft has begun emulating.

Um, ALL applications on Windows, including M$ Outlook, etc exhibits "crashes, memory leacks, how when you try to quit it it stalls". It's a Windoze problem, not iTunes problem.

fiftydollarshoe
Oct 3, 2007, 08:54 AM
Do you happen to be 10?
Kidding.
Sure the iPod is a mobile device. Doesn't mean you can't use it at home. I listen to my iPod Shuffle when going to sleep.

You should use your shuffle for other things when in bed.... I do....

ruckus
Oct 3, 2007, 08:55 AM
Um, I would? But I'm also an Apple fanboy :P Apparently you've never visited a Windows forum have you..?

LOL no. Guess I shouldn't say that then, hehe.

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 08:56 AM
I think the argument is: Zune != iPod=> therefore it sucks. QED.


I love the bagging on the Xbox... Especially since the Pippin did so well during it's lifetime ;)

What does this have to do with quantum electrodynamics? ;)

No, not everything that is not iPod sucks. Zune sucks. For God's sake people Zune won't even support -- or didn't until now, if they changed it -- Microsoft's own Plays For Sure DRM. If you bought a bunch of PFS music trusting Microsoft support for it, and you wanted a Zune, you had to repurchase all that music through the Zune store. That's not "sucks" that's "moronic".

How is saying I loved my X360 bagging on it? It has a flawed design and perhaps poor build quality. But when it works, it's great. Tremendous fun, great games, great graphics, great audio. When it works.

Pippin was unmitigated product disaster. How is pointing out the flaws in X360, which despite the hardware nightmare and support issues is very much a going concern in current generation consoles and deserves to -- MS should fix the damn things for good and all after almost two years, but its' got some smashing content -- how is being frank about X360's problems in anyway saying Pippin should then or now be used for anything other than a uniquely designed rather expensive tea tray?

To wit:

Zune sucks.
Current X360 hardware design sucks.
X360 gaming experience is great.
Pippin sucked.

NPP. (Nuclear and Particle Physics) ;)

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 08:57 AM
You should use your shuffle for other things when in bed.... I do....

Seek professional help, please.

MacBiscuit
Oct 3, 2007, 08:59 AM
I'd rather buy something unique than something nearly every teen in America has. I'm not saying anythings wrong with the iPod, I like it, bit its too mainstream for me..

There's nothing wrong with mainstream if its good. Buying something 'exclusive' simply because its more expensive is a little depressing - it essentially functions as a badge indicating that you are lucky enough to be able to afford it...

I think there's a bit of a whiff of this around the iPhone. Many who can afford it are secretly quite pleased that it's so expensive I suspect :rolleyes:

If you really want to be individual you'll need to look beyond what you choose to buy. To be really individual, why not choose not to have a cellphone at all. No? Thought not... ;)

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 08:59 AM
IIRC, the software-features that 5.5G got were gapless-playback, search and games. And 5G got all those features.

You forgot alpha scroll skip, which 5G got, too. 5G did not get search.

Roessnakhan
Oct 3, 2007, 09:01 AM
I've messed around with a Zune in Best Buy (1st Gen) I thought it was pretty slick and actually considered getting one, but the lack of OS X support killed that idea. Its not a badly designed product, hell I didn't even mind the brown, people just see the MS name and get all hurt and want to kick up the sands.

MrCrowbar
Oct 3, 2007, 09:02 AM
Will it blend? :p

They don't look that bad. Competitive pricing too... If they worked with iTunes, on OSX, those wouldn't be all bad I guess.

On the other hand, I just bought a new iPod nano for my girlfriend and it's pretty amazing how nice the screen is. The interface looks dull and bad in screenshots but totally makes sense if you're actually using it.

I'll keep my 2G nano for a whike though... fits nicely in the coin pocket :)

GTiPhone
Oct 3, 2007, 09:02 AM
Honestly, I like this very very much. Wireless syncing is darn cool as well.

It looks very very nice....the UI is 10x nicer and smoother than the new iPod.

But No OS X support? Why? Every Mac Fan Boy would buy one just to prove that their iPod Touch is better........

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 09:06 AM
Indie artists are commonly the only ones who will give away pre-loaded content. Macs used to come with some pre-loaded content, too, indie and major label, to introduce the iTunes feature. Once people caught on, they quit. I assume MS will too.

As for community and sharing, Apple assumes their media line customers are socially adept creatures who have associates with whom they know many ways to share their interests. Microsoft assumes you are a geek who lives in a dark basement room in your parent's house and needs all the help he can get.

I don't get why most of the people here aren't really critical but only try to bash MS.

There are some good things to say about the Zune. That wireless sharing feature for example is very usefull to discover new music even with its limitations. Even after the 3 plays of a shared song (compare this with the 30 sec preview on iTunes!), it's a nice thing to have all the artist and title information stored on your Zune so that you easily can buy that song later. And sharing of photos? Damn, thats cool!

Yeah, it's not a perfect product but it's only a start and yes, MS copied the DRM-hell from Apple which is also a bad thing. But they really try to focus on independent artists (pre-loaded content), community and sharing. Much more than Apple does.

Dagless
Oct 3, 2007, 09:08 AM
Yes, the Zune can do that and, unlike the iPod, you can do that without having to buy anything extra.

ok- so that's...

A media centre PC (specific OS which you can't buy seperately and a TV card) vs. any Mac with a USB2 slot and a £75 digital TV dongle.
:rolleyes:


The only exception is the sync to the Zune remotely from a different location but, then again, neither can the iPod unless you use third party software.

I think you missed the bit where I said an iPod Touch or iPhone anywhere in the world with an EyeTV can stream recordings. Meaning I can buy an 8gb iPod Touch and not have to load TV shows onto it. Just let EyeTV run it all (which, btw, incase you're getting confused by this is a free application with the Digital TV dongle). I could be hiking up on some god forsaken Scottish island, check the listings and see a film I'd like to watch. Press Rec to put it on the schedule and stream it via o2 or a hotspot.
All in lovely H.264 quality.


I don't have to be at my PC to tell it to record something. I can program it from another PC. Hell I can access it from my 360 and that's with no additional software!

CONGRATS! Neither do I! As I said so long as I can connect to the internet I'm okay. I can manage this on even WAP enabled mobile phones :rolleyes:

I'd love to see how your iPod gets FM 'cause my 5.5G iPod sure doesn't have that feature and it was not announced for the classic.

http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/images/content/fmtuner1.jpg
OMFG WITCHCRAFT


You're not too bright are you :o then again you are sticking up for the Zune...

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 09:09 AM
Honestly, I like this very very much. Wireless syncing is darn cool as well.

It looks very very nice....the UI is 10x nicer and smoother than the new iPod.

But No OS X support? Why? Every Mac Fan Boy would buy one just to prove that their iPod Touch is better........

No OS X support *is* just plain stupid. Easy to implement manually, write their own or MS could buy some off-the-shelf indie 3rd party Mac music/media player that's about to go broke due to iTunes domination. There are plenty of Mac users who are anti-iPod just because the iPod is so popular -- which isn't a good reason, but doesn't change their minds -- and they'd buy a Zune just to be different.

But you know what Kanye West said: Steve Ballmer doesn't care about Mac people.

Sharky II
Oct 3, 2007, 09:10 AM
No brown colour anymore, eh? Well, that's a turn up for the books, the browns is dropped, couldn't see that coming

Idiots

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 09:11 AM
Cut him a break. It's a peripheral, he lives under a rock, whatever. It's in the FM Tuner remote. Well implemented, too.

ok- so that's...

A media centre PC (specific OS which you can't buy seperately and a TV card) vs. any Mac with a USB2 slot and a £75 digital TV dongle.
:rolleyes:




I think you missed the bit where I said an iPod Touch or iPhone anywhere in the world with an EyeTV can stream recordings. Meaning I can buy an 8gb iPod Touch and not have to load TV shows onto it. Just let EyeTV run it all (which, btw, incase you're getting confused by this is a free application with the Digital TV dongle).




CONGRATS! Neither do I! As I said so long as I can connect to the internet I'm okay. I can manage this on even WAP enabled mobile phones :rolleyes:



http://www.macworld.com/2006/01/images/content/fmtuner1.jpg
OMFG WITCHCRAFT


You're not too bright are you :o then again you are sticking up for the Zune...

Consultant
Oct 3, 2007, 09:13 AM
The ability to sync with Windows Media Center is huge. That means you can have your PC record a TV show for you and all you have to do is sync. No having to pay $2 an episode on iTunes, whenever it decides to show up.

FM is something I'm still amazed the iPod doesn't have.


All TV recording devices on the Mac allows the tv shows to be transferred to the iPod, for free. You can also transfer your DVDs to your iPod too (not directly in iTunes because the labels prohibits it, but it works). Getting a TV recoding box is certainly less expensive and more stable then windoze media center (b.t.w, serious video people won't touch Windoze Media Center, think about that).

About FM, iPod does have it as an accessory, for those who don't get sick of listening to the same repeating songs played on FM stations.

Dagless
Oct 3, 2007, 09:14 AM
Cut him a break. It's a peripheral, he lives under a rock, whatever. It's in the FM Tuner remote. Well implemented, too.

If he wants to run around uninformed then it's fair game.

zephead
Oct 3, 2007, 09:22 AM
Did they get rid of brown? It was such a great color!

Even better, now they have s*** green! :D

MovieCutter
Oct 3, 2007, 09:25 AM
I'd rather buy something unique than something nearly every teen in America has. I'm not saying anythings wrong with the iPod, I like it, bit its too mainstream for me..

This is a pretty ridiculous reason not to buy something...how very emo of you.

As for the new Zune, I'm actually impressed. I considered for a heartbeat picking up the 80GB as it has almost as big of a screen as my iPhone does AND has a huge hard drive...kinda what I wanted Apple to release when they released the touch. Well done Microsoft. I'd be mildly concerned if I were Apple, not alarmed, but I'd definitely have my eye on this one.

iSee
Oct 3, 2007, 09:28 AM
Well, competition is good. I wish they'd push Apple a little more. This is mostly a (partial) catch-up release.

The big Zune seems to be in a nice spot for mobile video, though:
* Bigger screen than an iPod classic
* More capacity than an iPod Touch
* If the PVR synching works well, that's a great feature. With iTunes losing NBC, iPod video content sources are shrinking. I've guess Eye-TV provides a third-party option for PVR --> iPod, though, so that's actually pretty even.

rychencop
Oct 3, 2007, 09:30 AM
No OS X support. :(

Yeah...that is a remaining issue that MS refuses to deal with it seems. I do like the the wireless sync. feature though.
I will not buy one btw...!:D

rychencop
Oct 3, 2007, 09:33 AM
As for the new Zune, I'm actually impressed. I considered for a heartbeat picking up the 80GB as it has almost as big of a screen as my iPhone does AND has a huge hard drive...kinda what I wanted Apple to release when they released the touch. Well done Microsoft. I'd be mildly concerned if I were Apple, not alarmed, but I'd definitely have my eye on this one.

I agree....if MS would have come out with these models instead of the Gen 1 Zune...it would have sold better. Zune market place is not bad...appears they will have podcasts now and wireless sync. sounds cool. If they would only make it work on OS X.

zephead
Oct 3, 2007, 09:34 AM
I'd rather buy something unique than something nearly every teen in America has. I'm not saying anythings wrong with the iPod, I like it, bit its too mainstream for me..
This is a pretty ridiculous reason not to buy something...how very emo of you.

A few years back, that was exactly the same way I was thinking, until my SanDisk and Samsung players went screwy, and the Creative Zen Micro was a pain in the ass. Then I decided to get an iPod mini and thought, "so this is why everyone has one of these!" Needless to say, I never looked back. :)

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 09:35 AM
If he wants to run around uninformed then it's fair game.

Touché. If he just didn't know I'd say you were being a butt to razz him like that, but since he was using it to compare available iPod features with available Zune features, you're right.

Also, to try and prove my "Zune sucks" position is not anti-Zune for the sake of being anti-Zune, or I'm anti-MS biased, let me thing of an Apple product that sucked. Pippin sucked on marketing and filling a niche that at the time did not need filling, not as much on design or implementation, plus it's too easy a target, so I'll point out something.

I can't go for the default, the hockey-puck mouse, because I rather liked it as I have small hands (shut up, that's a myth, there's no direct statistical correlation whatsoever). Well... You know, Newton for one. Newton did some very cool, very, very advanced for the time things. But it couldn't do enough on its own that it didn't need tight integration with a Mac, and they failed pretty well with that integration. Oh, I got it:

The Mac Portable. Had one on my desk as a test machine when I worked for Aldus. Suck. Suck, suck, suck. But I have to take that back. It didn't suck. We used to have foam dart-gun fights. I could get under my desk, close up the Mac Portable, set it on end in front of me, and I had *total* protection from all incoming projectiles.

Also, when I say Zune sucks, I say Zune sucks relative to Apple media line products. It's really rather one of the better non-Apple media players. But it can't compare to Apple products. My wife and I were at Target playing around with the display Zune -- ahh, geeks in love -- her iPhone was buried in her purse, mine was in my pocket, so I pulled it out and we started doing some of the same tasks, her on the display Zune, me on the iPod feature of my iPhone. Just no comparison; really no comparison to the 5G, but when you bring iPhone or touch into competition, no way. No comparison to the point "Zune sucks" is a fair statement.

And, oh, I *liked* the brown color. I thought that was MS's boldest move. If it weren't for all the black-is-the-new-black robots, they should have moved a lot of them just on that unique color alone.

drugs!
Oct 3, 2007, 09:36 AM
admit it guys... this seeems waaaaay cooler than the classic

drater
Oct 3, 2007, 09:41 AM
The only thing I hope comes out of the Zune is another video like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhUAr-P_39U&mode=related&search=

"ZUNE! ZUNE! ZUNE!"

Anyone else notice they didn't release the specs on battery life?

Also, if the iPod sold for a loss like the Zune does, we'd probably see a "better" product. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/26/technology/26soft.html?


p.s. I still don't think its a better product.

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 09:41 AM
I agree....if MS would have come out with these models instead of the Gen 1 Zune...it would have sold better. Zune market place is not bad...appears they will have podcasts now and wireless sync. sounds cool. If they would only make it work on OS X.

Oh Apple is nervous, alright. Nervous the sun will explode. Zune 2 will not dent the iPods. And they'll have serialized audio and/or video programming under some kind of name, not podcasts. If the Zune store throws up a "Podcast" section, they will however have a multimillion dollar lawsuit. After a little bit of shove a while after podcast became popular, Apple has been very liberal with the use of the term podcast. But they won't let MS infringe. Now whether or not a court will determine they've been so popular for so long the term is now part of the common language, therefore infringement claims unenforceable, I don't know.

diamond.g
Oct 3, 2007, 09:42 AM
What does this have to do with quantum electrodynamics? ;)

Not a whole lot. ;)

No, not everything that is not iPod sucks. Zune sucks. For God's sake people Zune won't even support -- or didn't until now, if they changed it -- Microsoft's own Plays For Sure DRM. If you bought a bunch of PFS music trusting Microsoft support for it, and you wanted a Zune, you had to repurchase all that music through the Zune store. That's not "sucks" that's "moronic".
True, Microsoft is pretty bad on that front


How is saying I loved my X360 bagging on it? It has a flawed design and perhaps poor build quality. But when it works, it's great. Tremendous fun, great games, great graphics, great audio. When it works.

Pippin was unmitigated product disaster. How is pointing out the flaws in X360, which despite the hardware nightmare and support issues is very much a going concern in current generation consoles and deserves to -- MS should fix the damn things for good and all after almost two years, but its' got some smashing content -- how is being frank about X360's problems in anyway saying Pippin should then or now be used for anything other than a uniquely designed rather expensive tea tray?

To wit:

Zune sucks.
Current X360 hardware design sucks.
X360 gaming experience is great.
Pippin sucked.

NPP. (Nuclear and Particle Physics) ;)

Actually I was more or less referring to how Microsoft is actually diong pretty well with the 360 all things considered. The Xbox wasn't a failure, it just cost MS more money than they could make (blame Intel and Nvidia for that). Selling hardware at a loss is a tricky business, it isn't something Apple would ever dream of doing. I mean I would love to hear how Apple could do better.

gloss
Oct 3, 2007, 09:44 AM
My main issues with the Zune were the god-awful software (which looks to be much, much improved) and the crappy video codec support (which looks to be remedied). I actually prefer the feel of the player to the iPod Classic, although it's considerably bulkier, and the interface is fine. After using the Zune and the iPod touch going back to a scroll wheel actually feels clunky.

And the software update for Zune 1.0 users is a fantastic move. I hate Microsoft, but this does build considerable goodwill from my perspective. Now I have a way to watch Arrested Development if I'm too scared to bring out my iPod touch.

Consultant
Oct 3, 2007, 09:45 AM
I'm soo anoyed MSFT jumped on the social networking side of things with media players first.
I have been saying for the last year AAPL should leverage the ipods into social networking devices. Now they would have to play catchup with the devil.
ipod,iphones, itunes, macbooks, iphoto.
make a social networing site, which shares video, musical, movies, photos.

WHY WHY WHY can Apple not understand the internet. Its the only week link in an otherwise fairly seamless business philosophy .

It's .Mac, it's not marketed as social networking site but does everything. Not sure how often I've seen a "musical" been shared though, maybe you meant music. In that case there is a program that can serve all your itunes music over the web (for iPhone).

sanford
Oct 3, 2007, 09:49 AM
Well, I just found out this morning I'm getting a replacement 360 for free Monday or Tuesday. Not from MS, but that's another story. I am pleased as punch. And this one has lifetime support, which is another story, too, but I won't have to worry about it dying and costing me to replace or fix it.

This is the reason I think you'll never see Apple make a games console: the business model requires selling hardware at a loss, aiming for a good attach rate, and making the money up on licensed games sales. Except for Nintendo, but they are a special case. They actually make money on hardware but will cut specifications and features to do that -- first rev. Wii won't play DVDs or even audio CDs! I can't see Apple aiming low on the tech like that. I mean, sure, Apple sticks a less than hotrod GPU in the iMac so they can make more money, but limiting the capabilities of a games console so they can make money on the hardware. I can't see it. And they will not sell at a loss. If they do, I'll like faint, eat a brown Zune or something.

Not a whole lot. ;)

True, Microsoft is pretty bad on that front



Actually I was more or less referring to how Microsoft is actually diong pretty well with the 360 all things considered. The Xbox wasn't a failure, it just cost MS more money than they could make (blame Intel and Nvidia for that). Selling hardware at a loss is a tricky business, it isn't something Apple would ever dream of doing. I mean I would love to hear how Apple could do better.