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MacRumors
Oct 11, 2007, 12:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AppleInsider provides (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/11/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_spaces.html) a look at Apple's implementation of Spaces in their upcoming Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) and the origins of such virtual workspaces.
Spaces in Leopard -- like any virtual desktop system -- allows the user more room for their windows to live in. As with any other platform, Apple had to address two inherent problems with virtual desktops: third party developer support and user complexity.

The author believes that Apple successfully addressed both issues to make Spaces a useful addition to Mac OS X.

Apple also provides a dedicated page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/spaces.html) describing the new feature of Leopard as well as a Quicktime movie (http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/mac/macosx/2007/wwdc/apple-leopard-spaces_iref.mov) demonstrating the feature.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is expected to be released this month.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/11/mac-os-x-leopards-spaces/)



Multimedia
Oct 11, 2007, 12:05 PM
I had a dream last night that Spaces really got me organized better than ever before.

plumbingandtech
Oct 11, 2007, 12:06 PM
I am so looking forward to this.

I am so sick of the current solutions switching virutal spaces incorrectly when I open doc type X in space Y when application Z is was first opened in Y.

Now that apple is standardizing virutal desktops windows should finally open in their correct spots.

Nice.

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 12:08 PM
I want to know the keyboard shortcuts for this sucker.

I still find application hiding and Exposť to work quite well.

FJ218700
Oct 11, 2007, 12:08 PM
I had a dream last night that Spaces really got me organized better than ever before.

in your dream, was it October or November?

jaydub
Oct 11, 2007, 12:09 PM
I think this is one feature I'm really looking forward to using, especially on a macbook pro.

Very cool.

happydude
Oct 11, 2007, 12:10 PM
I had a dream last night that Spaces really got me organized better than ever before.

did you notice ical in your dream? was it still october?!:D

xUKHCx
Oct 11, 2007, 12:11 PM
I had a dream last night that Spaces really got me organized better than ever before.

Lots of people on these forums seem to be having dreams about Leopard.

Peace
Oct 11, 2007, 12:13 PM
I want to know the keyboard shortcuts for this sucker.

I still find application hiding and Exposť to work quite well.

I set my middle mouse button as the shortcut.Simply clicking it gives me a birds eye view of all the spaces.Clicking again takes me back to where I was or where I'm going.

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 12:14 PM
I set my middle mouse button as the shortcut.Simply clicking it gives me a birds eye view of all the spaces.Clicking again takes me back to where I was or where I'm going.I thought you'd be able to set it to a mouse button.

Definitely quad core Mac time for this.

Roessnakhan
Oct 11, 2007, 12:17 PM
I had a dream last night that Spaces really got me organized better than ever before.

You.. dream about operating systems? :confused:

Yvan256
Oct 11, 2007, 12:18 PM
I thought you'd be able to set it to a mouse button.

Definitely quad core Mac time for this.

How about a "one core per desktop" mode, allowing easy user CPU allocation?

Example (Core Duo Mac):
- put Handbrake in a space by itself to give it a whole CPU to encode a DVD
- put all your other apps in another space to share your other CPU

samh004
Oct 11, 2007, 12:18 PM
I must say, Spaces is one of the things I'd really see myself using a lot, however I wonder if I'd forget about conversations going on in different spaces too ? Quite likely.

I had a dream last night that Spaces really got me organized better than ever before.

in your dream, was it October or November?

did you notice ical in your dream? was it still october?!:D

HAHA... that put a smile on my face.

I set my middle mouse button as the shortcut.Simply clicking it gives me a birds eye view of all the spaces.Clicking again takes me back to where I was or where I'm going.

I'm not sure if I'd want to swap out Exposť for Spaces, as that's currently what I have my middle mouse button set as... when I'm using a mouse.

JSpence
Oct 11, 2007, 12:18 PM
Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is expected to be released this month.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/11/mac-os-x-leopards-spaces/)

Still expected to be this month? If there is nothing by tomorrow, let alone the end of this weekend, I'm going to break into a constant sweat :p

paulyras
Oct 11, 2007, 12:20 PM
I really like these Apple Insider features, but for heck's sake, I WANT A RELEASE DATE, so I can go out and buy my MBP and get a copy of Leopard via up to date....

BTW- Are they technically allowed to do these without violating their NDA, or is apple turning a blind eye, because it's free, very positive, advertising?

Multimedia
Oct 11, 2007, 12:22 PM
How about a "one core per desktop" mode, allowing easy user CPU allocation?

Example (Core Duo Mac):
- put Handbrake in a space by itself to give it a whole CPU to encode a DVD
- put all your other apps in another space to share your other CPUThat's a bad example since Handbrake can use all available cores to crush As Fast As Possible (AFAP) and many other applications only need a small fraction of a core to run. Handbrake and Toast would be the last things I would ever want to limit core access to.

Mail on the other hand, now there's a CORE HOG if I ever saw one - I would love to limit Mail to 25% of a core if I could.

xUKHCx
Oct 11, 2007, 12:37 PM
Interesting article, Spaces in one of the features of Leopard that I am really looking forward too. Think this will probably be my most used part of Leopard apart from the updated Finder.

juanm
Oct 11, 2007, 12:38 PM
I want to know the keyboard shortcuts for this sucker.

I still find application hiding and Exposť to work quite well.

Apparently, ctrl+1, +2,+3 and so on

1020
Oct 11, 2007, 12:39 PM
Interestingly, Microsoft delivered its first support for multiple physical monitors in 2001 with Windows XP, fifteen years after Apple delivered it on the Mac. That suggests that Microsoft may deliver support for multiple desktops like Leopard's new Spaces at some point in the future, perhaps in the early 2020s.

Funny. I'm very excited about Spaces though. Having multiple desktops is the one thing I missed when I switched from Linux.

QuantumLo0p
Oct 11, 2007, 12:39 PM
Very nice! I first used work spaces waaaay back in my HP-UX days almost ten years ago. (damn, I feel old)

HP-UX's Visual User Environment defaulted to six workspaces but the number was configuable.

Nice work, Apple!

juanm
Oct 11, 2007, 12:40 PM
You.. dream about operating systems? :confused:

Don't ask, don't tell. :p

samh004
Oct 11, 2007, 12:41 PM
Funny. I'm very excited about Spaces though. Having multiple desktops is the one thing I missed when I switched from Linux.

I thought that was great !! :D

BornAgainMac
Oct 11, 2007, 12:46 PM
Looks like the best implementation of a virtual desktop. Perhaps Quicklook will be the topic for Friday as we wait for the official shipping date. I wish I could dream about it. It hasn't even shipped in my dreams yet.

Hopefully by Friday or Monday, some small HTML file will change on the Apple site that mentions a shipping date and a countdown.

xUKHCx
Oct 11, 2007, 12:46 PM
Apparently, ctrl+1, +2,+3 and so on

as well as crtl + arrow and F8

aLoC
Oct 11, 2007, 12:48 PM
Mail on the other hand, now there's a CORE HOG if I ever saw one - I would love to limit Mail to 25% of a core if I could.

I don't know about 25%, but if you start it from Terminal like this:
nice /Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS/Mail &

it will be given a lower CPU priority than other programs.

cobravap
Oct 11, 2007, 12:48 PM
man i really want this to come out now~~!!!

samh004
Oct 11, 2007, 12:51 PM
I don't know about 25%, but if you start it from Terminal like this:
nice /Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS/Mail &

it will be given a lower CPU priority than other programs.

Why is that, what does that command tell the Terminal to do ?

Peace
Oct 11, 2007, 12:55 PM
I don't know about 25%, but if you start it from Terminal like this:
nice /Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS/Mail &

it will be given a lower CPU priority than other programs.

One can use the Activity Monitor to prioritize apps.

DavidLeblond
Oct 11, 2007, 12:56 PM
Apparently, ctrl+1, +2,+3 and so on

I wonder how you do the shortcut for spaces above 10.

Not that you'd want to have that many...

nagromme
Oct 11, 2007, 12:57 PM
This has been a great article series at AI. Part history, part humor and the expense of Windows, and a detailed look at what's new in Leopard.

I think I'll start with just TWO spaces before I get all crazy!

twoodcc
Oct 11, 2007, 12:59 PM
i think spaces is going to be great. hopefully we'll get a leopard date in the next couple of days.....hopefully tomorrow

nagromme
Oct 11, 2007, 12:59 PM
Mail on the other hand, now there's a CORE HOG if I ever saw one - I would love to limit Mail to 25% of a core if I could.!

Weird. I run Mail 24/7 and except at the moment it's receiving mail, I seldom see it use more than 0% CPU. It goes up to about 6% of a core when checking mail from 4 accounts at once. (And uses less than 50 MB of real memory.) This is on a Core 2 Duo iMac.

Orng
Oct 11, 2007, 12:59 PM
Lots of people on these forums seem to be having dreams about Leopard.

Snoooorrr... , I'll put the porn in this Space; the penguins in this Space; I'm being chased by Zombies but I'm stuck in mud in this Space; but in THIS Space, I'm a viking!... Zzzzzzz

xUKHCx
Oct 11, 2007, 01:00 PM
One can use the Activity Monitor to prioritize apps.

how exactly, i cant seem to find it

Peace
Oct 11, 2007, 01:01 PM
how exactly, i cant seem to find it


GAWD.Nevermind.I had a Windows flashback.

sorry :o

bondjw07
Oct 11, 2007, 01:02 PM
Does anyone else have the problem when trying to view the video that was linked in the article or linked on apples page it always crashes the browser? I've tried it from the most recent FireFox and most recent IE7. I have to use a PC here at work, I don't know why it would crash the browser though....

JSpence
Oct 11, 2007, 01:07 PM
...I have to use a PC here at work, I don't know why it would crash the browser though....
rhetorical question? lol sorry, that's not helpful. It just happens to me at times and I can't figure it out for the life of me :rolleyes:

Data
Oct 11, 2007, 01:09 PM
how this will influence my use of exposee , i would not be suprised at all if i would stop using it and use spaces instead, time ( hopefully within 3 weeks ) will tell .

ChrisA
Oct 11, 2007, 01:11 PM
How about a "one core per desktop" mode, allowing easy user CPU allocation?

Not such a good idea. You have four cores and four virtual monitors. You are looking at only one of the three screens and interacting with whatever is there but 3/4ths of your compute power is tied to inactive programs.

I have a better idea. Let the "compute power" follow the demand for same. Why not write a program. Call it a "scheduler" and place in inside the OS kernel and then whenever a core becomes free the program will choose which of the processes that are marked "ready" to run. The schedule can use a lot of information to decide.

If users want to influence the scheduler thay have means already. See the "nice" manpage

Wayfarer
Oct 11, 2007, 01:12 PM
Lots of people on these forums seem to be having dreams about Leopard.

Count me in! Guilty as charged. ;)

ChrisA
Oct 11, 2007, 01:20 PM
I know for sure "Spaces" will be popular. I use a Linux system daily here at work with a Gnome desktop and I keep six virtual desktops on the taskbar. I've used this feature for years, going back to the late 1980's Even backin the days before graphical screens mice and Windows. I used a feature like this on a plain ASCII terminal where function keys would give you another virtual terminal. The idea has been around for as long as there have been "glass teletypes" Well maybe even longer there was a crude method even with the old paper teletype terminals. "Control z" would place the current session in the background and then you could toggle between the two session -- this was n the 1970's.

It's good that Apple has finally added this feature. But now that I have a 24" LCD screen I don't need it so much

mdriftmeyer
Oct 11, 2007, 01:21 PM
Why is that, what does that command tell the Terminal to do ?

$man nice

nagromme
Oct 11, 2007, 01:23 PM
I had a dream about a leopard, but not Leopard the OS.

Dagless
Oct 11, 2007, 01:24 PM
I've had Apple dreams but none about Leopard yet.

Never been much a fan of them multiple desktop features. But if Apple can do it well then I might just switch my old fashioned ways.

extensor
Oct 11, 2007, 01:25 PM
Very nice! I first used work spaces waaaay back in my HP-UX days almost ten years ago. (damn, I feel old)

HP-UX's Visual User Environment defaulted to six workspaces but the number was configuable.

Nice work, Apple!

I switched to Mac OS X from Windows because it had a lot of stuff that my Amiga had back in 1985. If I remember correctly you could move thru screens with Amiga-M and Amiga-N. Also you could move your mouse to the top of a screen and slide it down.

It's nice to see another old friend (feature) added. :)

swagi
Oct 11, 2007, 01:26 PM
I really like these Apple Insider features, but for heck's sake, I WANT A RELEASE DATE, so I can go out and buy my MBP and get a copy of Leopard via up to date....

BTW- Are they technically allowed to do these without violating their NDA, or is apple turning a blind eye, because it's free, very positive, advertising?

Basically I don't think that AI is under any NDA. I doubt the admins have an ADC account. They are collecting informations from their users.

And btw they are just touting all those features, that Steve demonstrated during his WWDC speech. I remember Finder, stacks and stuff to be in Steve's speeches. The only thing they spoke of, that Steve didn't mention anywhere IIRC, was the feature about Preview.app.

Small White Car
Oct 11, 2007, 01:29 PM
I must be the only person here who doesn't care about this.

Right now I command-tab to the program I need and use it. Repeat as often as needed.

That's it. Everything I've read about Spaces makes it seem like more complication without any added benefit. That's not anything to be excited about in my book. I doubt I'll ever use it, but I'm glad you're all excited! :)

Multimedia
Oct 11, 2007, 01:33 PM
One can use the Activity Monitor to prioritize apps.How? I have Activity Monitor open all the time and I don't see how I can minimize Mail's core hogging behavior or any other app's for that matter.
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/55/46/22564655.jpgGAWD.Nevermind.I had a Windows flashback. sorry :oNo prob. ;)

JMax1
Oct 11, 2007, 01:41 PM
What do you think will happen with Spaces if I already have an external screen hooked up to my iMac? Will you be able to leave that one alone while switching the other screen? And with the external screen have the option to have multiple spaces as well?

B. McKechnie
Oct 11, 2007, 01:42 PM
For those interested here's a look at Spaces running on a dual monitor system. I grabbed this from one of the earlier releases of Leopard.

http://bamcat.typepad.com/bamcat/2006/08/spaces_w_dual_m.html

Brian

notjustjay
Oct 11, 2007, 01:42 PM
Back when the Powerbooks began to be equipped with sudden motion sensors, I remember someone writing a hack involving a virtual desktop application. They'd whack the left side of the PB and the desktop would switch (left-to-right transition) and then whack the other side to bring the first desktop back (right to left).

I hope that's possible with Spaces :D

Darkroom
Oct 11, 2007, 01:42 PM
i have to say that i'm most excited about Spaces... with the new dock+stacks, my mac is going to be so organized...

i'm curious if it's would be possible to change the desktop image for each space though... that would be excellent...

Multimedia
Oct 11, 2007, 01:44 PM
Does anyone else have the problem when trying to view the video that was linked in the article or linked on apples page it always crashes the browser? I've tried it from the most recent FireFox and most recent IE7. I have to use a PC here at work, I don't know why it would crash the browser though....It's a QuickTime Movie so you would want both QuickTime and Safari 3 for Windoze installed.

For those interested here's a look at Spaces running on a dual monitor system. I grabbed this from one of the earlier releases of Leopard.

http://bamcat.typepad.com/bamcat/2006/08/spaces_w_dual_m.html

BrianSo Brian, are 16 or even 32 different spaces possible not just 4?

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 01:50 PM
For those interested here's a look at Spaces running on a dual monitor system. I grabbed this from one of the earlier releases of Leopard.

http://bamcat.typepad.com/bamcat/2006/08/spaces_w_dual_m.html

BrianI was hoping for a video.

crossifixio
Oct 11, 2007, 01:51 PM
Hey everyone the GM date is getting closer infact tommorow it should go GM if there is going to be a october release, getting worried here :( as some people are saying that its not ready. Some make me feel better and tell me its going to be released in october since apple is not :D :apple:

Multimedia
Oct 11, 2007, 01:54 PM
I was hoping for a video.Here's the Video (http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/mac/macosx/2007/wwdc/apple-leopard-spaces_iref.mov).

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 01:56 PM
Here's the Video (http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/mac/macosx/2007/wwdc/apple-leopard-spaces_iref.mov).The the dual screen in action.

Multimedia
Oct 11, 2007, 01:59 PM
Treat.Hey everyone the GM date is getting closer infact tommorow it should go GM if there is going to be a october release, getting worried here :( as some people are saying that its not ready. Some make me feel better and tell me its going to be released in october since apple is not :D :apple:Theoretically Apple could declare GM October 30, put a copy in one box and place the box for sale Halloween evening in the Palo Alto store. That way it will have shipped in October - the last 6 hours one unit for sale. :p

morespce54
Oct 11, 2007, 02:06 PM
Treat.Theoretically Apple could declare GM October 30, put a copy in one box and place the box for sale Halloween evening in the Palo Alto store. That way it will have shipped in October - the last 6 hours one unit for sale. :p

can you imagine how much this box would worth??? ;)

englishman
Oct 11, 2007, 02:19 PM
Big deal - or small potatoes as you say over there

Haven't Linuxes had this for years?

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 02:22 PM
Haven't Linuxes had this for years?We already know this. *face palm*

Manic Mouse
Oct 11, 2007, 02:26 PM
Big deal - or small potatoes as you say over there

Haven't Linuxes had this for years?

10.6 Lynx?

aranhamo
Oct 11, 2007, 02:28 PM
Big deal - or small potatoes as you say over there

Haven't Linuxes had this for years?

OS X has had this for years as well. Just that now it's a feature built into the OS rather than an add-on.

LukeAP88
Oct 11, 2007, 02:29 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1. If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 02:30 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1. If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?It'll be a software update.

Peace
Oct 11, 2007, 02:31 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1. If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?

If you bought Leopard 10.5 there will be an software update for 10.5.1

milo
Oct 11, 2007, 02:32 PM
So Brian, are 16 or even 32 different spaces possible not just 4?

The AI article says up to 16.

Eidorian
Oct 11, 2007, 02:33 PM
Last edited by Peace : Today at 03:32 PM. Reason: Eidorian got there first.Indeed I did.

Confidemus
Oct 11, 2007, 02:36 PM
From time to time I start parallels and have a windows running. Is it possible to assign the windows desktop to one of these spaces? That would be a superb effect just to switch to the windows desktop.

Confidemus

BTW
Oct 11, 2007, 02:37 PM
i think spaces is going to be great. hopefully we'll get a leopard date in the next couple of days.....hopefully tomorrow

It'll be great for software developers. One space for the dev tools and another for the everything else. Does the Dock change with every space? I'd want to see the Mail app in the Dock regardless of which space I was in.

QuarterSwede
Oct 11, 2007, 03:14 PM
For those interested here's a look at Spaces running on a dual monitor system. I grabbed this from one of the earlier releases of Leopard.

http://bamcat.typepad.com/bamcat/2006/08/spaces_w_dual_m.html

Brian
There's also a picture of that in the AI article. :o

Does the Dock change with every space? I'd want to see the Mail app in the Dock regardless of which space I was in.
The dock stays the same.

Ex. If you click on the mail icon and there is a window open in another space, it will switch to that space. If there are multiple windows in multiple spaces each click of the icon switches to a different window in whatever space it's in.

It looks like Apple actually put a lot of thought into Spaces.

Did anyone actually read the entire article? A lot of the questions here were answered there.

Keebler
Oct 11, 2007, 03:18 PM
i didn't think that an OS would get me this excited, but i'm really looking forward to buying Leopard.

spaces and stacks on the toolbar look very useful.

i'm like multimedia - i wonder if it will help me stay a bit more organized :)

this is completely off topic, but i saw a snippet somewhere that said leopard will utilize my mac pro's cores more efficiently, thus making it a bit faster. is that right? any links for me to follow?

Doctor Q
Oct 11, 2007, 03:24 PM
The purpose of spaces, as we all know, is to have one desktop for what you are working on, and another desktop for what you should be working on. Very handy when your teacher, boss, parent, or spouse walks by! :p

Unfortunately, I'm a teacher, boss, parent, and spouse, so I'll have to keep a closer eye on everyone else once they get Leopard!

KingYaba
Oct 11, 2007, 03:25 PM
I don't see myself using Spaces all that often.

psychofreak
Oct 11, 2007, 03:42 PM
The purpose of spaces, as we all know, is to have one desktop for what you are working on, and another desktop for what you should be working on. Very handy when your teacher, boss, parent, or spouse walks by!
At school, my dashboard hot-corner provides that function :p

p33
Oct 11, 2007, 04:52 PM
You.. dream about operating systems? :confused:

I know someone who was dreaming about a PSW (program status word, as use surely don't know - that was well back in the late 80s, early 90s)... And that's much worse that that fancy Spaces stuf, I can tell you.

p33
Oct 11, 2007, 05:07 PM
At school, my dashboard hot-corner provides that function :p

Ditto. Any X Window based UN*X gui have been havin' it for aaaages... So, "Only in Leopard"? For Christ sake! That reminds me that M$ blurb about "new" preemtive scheduling system that they "invented" or "put forward" or whatever was the buzz word and used in their Win NT. A collegue of mine with somewhat more substantial un*x experience by that time told me then: "Do they think that we are all plain stupid or they just can't or don't read docs and specs?"

So having been using X Window Pager (Spaces is analogous, though somewhat fancier) since about 1993, as far as I can remember, I can probably ask *exactly* the same question: "Only in Leopard"?..

That's ... cheap.

Fiveos22
Oct 11, 2007, 05:35 PM
The more Space, the more their is to devour. Now weather that is in a virtual environent, a natural environment, or the natural habitat of a leopard like me. iLike it, I'm hungry, I can't wait to be unleashed on the world and to eat up screens and the humans using them, rrraarr!


Just like the more space, the greater potential for my Mac to suck down RAM. Is there any relevance to the idea that Spaces may consume massive amounts of memory?

swindmill
Oct 11, 2007, 05:47 PM
Spaces works amazingly in combination with Expose, and it's far better and simpler than any virtual desktop app I've used. I have Expose set to my 3rd mouse button. I'm going to need a mouse with a 4th button for Spaces.

Lesser Evets
Oct 11, 2007, 05:52 PM
Lots of people on these forums seem to be having dreams about Leopard.

I had a dream about a naked woman...

Done up in spots, like a leopard....

Hogging my Mac which just had OSX 10.5 installed.
I never even got to use it, yet.

There were tears, frustration, and sorrow in this dream.
OS 10.5 does that to me.

psychofreak
Oct 11, 2007, 05:52 PM
I know someone who was dreaming about a PSW (program status word, as use surely don't know - that was well back in the late 80s, early 90s)... And that's much worse that that fancy Spaces stuf, I can tell you.

Ah yes, "someone"...everything embarrassing happens to "someone I know", never "me" :p

Doctor Q
Oct 11, 2007, 06:06 PM
Spaces works amazingly in combination with Expose, and it's far better and simpler than any virtual desktop app I've used. I have Expose set to my 3rd mouse button. I'm going to need a mouse with a 4th button for Spaces.Maybe it's time to start using two mice!

With more and more handy options for Finder meta-actions (Exposť, Spaces, Dashboard), we're soon going to have trouble remembering our function key and mouse button assignments.
Just like the more space, the greater potential for my Mac to suck down RAM. Is there any relevance to the idea that Spaces may consume massive amounts of memory?I'm speaking on theory here, not from experience with Leopard, but I'd expect that the primary reason RAM usage would increase is because you'll be more likely to leave a number of applications open at once, and switch back and forth among them. That's a benefit of Spaces, but if your Mac is memory-strapped when you run lots of apps, you won't be able to take advantage of it.

I wouldn't expect it to add much overhead for Spaces to store extra information about where your windows are within the set of desktops, and when you don't use an application, having it open doesn't make much difference since it's only holding virtual memory.

Now I'm curious to learn whether I'm right about this.

Thertel88
Oct 11, 2007, 07:47 PM
Whats the percent chance that Leopard will be available for 69 dollars with education discount?

Thertel88
Oct 11, 2007, 08:03 PM
im betting if leopards release date doesnt come this weekend its not coming out in october

GekkePrutser
Oct 11, 2007, 08:49 PM
Very nice! I first used work spaces waaaay back in my HP-UX days almost ten years ago. (damn, I feel old)
HP-UX's Visual User Environment defaulted to six workspaces but the number was configuable.


Yeah I used VUE as well, I even had an HP 9000 workstation at home for a while :) It even had a (forerunner of a) dock as well! For its time it was brilliant.

However don't expect exactly the same as X-Windows workspaces from Mac OS X Spaces. In Mac OS, one program can only be on one space. So for example you can't have one safari window in space 1 and another in space 2.

I find this very constricting, I can remember many occasions where it was very useful to do exactly that under HP-UX. (e.g. working on an HTML page with a browser and a texteditor on one workspace, and browsing slashdot in the same browser app on another). In HP-UX (and every other X-Windows based desktop environment like KDE and Gnome) you can do all that. You can even choose to have one window appear on more than one workspace. So you can put your IM client in the right-hand corner on all your workspaces so you can see it no matter what space you're on.

I'd say Apple restricted their spaces in that way to make it easier to understand for novices but they should have made a way to turn on the ability have 2 windows of the same application on different spaces for power users. The way it's done now it's not too useful for me. So I don't expect to use it much.

MacFly123
Oct 11, 2007, 11:47 PM
I'm not sure if I'd want to swap out Exposť for Spaces, as that's currently what I have my middle mouse button set as... when I'm using a mouse.

Use the Hot Corners for Expose in each space then set the middle mouse button for birds eye spaces. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Expose in the Hot Corners. I feel like I'm in a FREAKING straight jacket when I have to use a PC lol :p

oogje
Oct 12, 2007, 12:00 AM
...
However don't expect exactly the same as X-Windows workspaces from Mac OS X Spaces. In Mac OS, one program can only be on one space. So for example you can't have one safari window in space 1 and another in space 2.
...

If I understand you correctly, that contradicts what AI says - specifically regarding safari.


What if you want to browse the web in one Space related to your research project, while also having a browser window open next to Mail in another? You can do that too, by simply creating a new window of whatever application you want to live in multiple Spaces.

With regard to sticking windows so they appear in every "space", I didn't see that mentioned in the AI article but I hope it's implemented in spaces.

motulist
Oct 12, 2007, 12:34 AM
One can use the Activity Monitor to prioritize apps.

I'd never heard that Activity Monitor allows you to prioritize apps, but you can prioritize different program's processes using the renice command in the terminal. I'd also bet that there's a shareware or freeware app out there that'll do renice-ing without needing to open the terminal if you aren't comfortable with that.

motulist
Oct 12, 2007, 12:52 AM
you can't have one safari window in space 1 and another in space 2.

The article says you CAN have separate windows of the same application open in different spaces, and they even used the safari window as their exact example!


What if you want to browse the web in one Space related to your research project, while also having a browser window open next to Mail in another? You can do that too, by simply creating a new window of whatever application you want to live in multiple Spaces. In the case of multiple browser windows, you can select New Window from Safari's Dock icon, although not every app supports this. This creates a new window for that app in the current Space, even if it has windows in another Space already.

edit: oogje beat me to the answer. That's what I get for responding to a comment from a window that I haven't reloaded in awhile.

sunfast
Oct 12, 2007, 03:36 AM
These articles are great! Wonder what's next?

hbrodaty
Oct 12, 2007, 06:23 AM
"the most advanced os in the whole universe" will have multiple desktop solution. About 4 - 6 years after linux, yes?:rolleyes:

mondesi43
Oct 12, 2007, 07:00 AM
can you imagine how much this box would worth??? ;)


$129 + tax?????

GekkePrutser
Oct 12, 2007, 11:18 AM
If I understand you correctly, that contradicts what AI says - specifically regarding safari.
The article says you CAN have separate windows of the same application open in different spaces, and they even used the safari window as their exact example!

Yes, you're both right, sorry! If I recall this correctly it did allow every App only on 1 space when it was presented at WWDC'06. The article is also mentioning that it doesn't work with every app so Apple might have tweaked Safari a bit. Or I just got it wrong when I read about it in 2006.

Anyway I stand corrected. I'm glad, too, because Spaces will be much more useful to me now.

SiliconAddict
Oct 12, 2007, 03:35 PM
Question. So lets say I have Adium open. And I have it assigned to desktop 4. What happens when I'm in Desktop 1 and I get an IM? Can you assign parts of apps to a desktop? Or am I going to miss the notification? The only possibility I can think of is setting up Growl to permanently leave a new message on all 4 desktops at the same time so I don't miss anything. :confused:

SiliconAddict
Oct 12, 2007, 03:56 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1. If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?

Software update and my money is on a .1 release within 2 months.

Just like the more space, the greater potential for my Mac to suck down RAM. Is there any relevance to the idea that Spaces may consume massive amounts of memory?


Doubt it. Only if Apple did a really piss poor job on integrating it into the OS. What is going to eat up the lion's share of your RAM is going to be the additional apps running on the system. That and I'm willing to bet the memory buffers and the frame buffer itself on the GPU are going to get hammered hard with this feature. Allowing you to swap back and forth between apps so easily means their is going to be some hard core caching going on. Thank god I got a 256MB card for my MBP. If they had the option I would have gone 512 though. Apple has been moving the processing of more and more of their GUI onto the GPU where it should have been a long time ago. I'm dead serious when I say get the biggest vid card you can afford or that Apple has for the system you are looking at. You will thank yourself in the long run.

blueskybyway
Oct 23, 2007, 02:57 PM
The dock stays the same.

Ex. If you click on the mail icon and there is a window open in another space, it will switch to that space. If there are multiple windows in multiple spaces each click of the icon switches to a different window in whatever space it's in.



As I understand it from the above post, you can't customize the dock to each space. Not what I was expecting. I want to have a space for writing where I have word processing and dictionary open, with only those icons in the dock. I don't want safari or email in the dock so there is less temptation to interrupt my writing to research something and get bogged down in the internet--no comments from the peanut gallery on will power, please. :)

Then I'll have a space for research and communications where I'll just have safari and email icons in the dock. Am I missing something here? Isn't part of having a virtual desktop about customizing the desktop and what you have quick access to?

jahbini
Oct 27, 2007, 12:49 PM
See my later post! I'm retracting this whole thing!

Sadly I don't see a way to use Spaces effectively.

I'm needing to put windows that address the different things I'm working on onto different visual desktops. I do some instrument control stuff, some web development stuff, some music stuff.

I get e-mails about all of these things. Now I do want e-mails, PDF's, manufacturer web sites that relate to my machine control work to appear on the machine control page.

But I never want an e-mail, say, on the topic of algorithmic music composition, to appear on the machine control page. And if it does show up by accident on that page, I should be able to move that to the correct desktop. The same paradigm should also be applied to the other task areas of my computing day.

Unfortunatly, I can't see how to do that at all. Apple has forced the Spaces to be on an APPLICATION basis, that is safari can appear on ALL spaces or it can appear only on ONE (you only select which one from the system preferences pane -- no hot key for that action).

The trouble is that most applications are useful for more than one task. And once a window has been assigned to a Space, I see no way to move it. There is no way that the OS or application can tell the user's intent of a window, But the user can, but only at the time a window is actually put on the screen. Apple's designers have made a design decision that removes that choice from the user.

OS 10.5 has only been out for a day, and I'm barely up to strength with it. But I'm stumped. I just don't think the system designers at Apple did their homework on this one. It's a cute feature, and seems like a winner when you get the demo from the sales person, but I find it unusable for my work.

If I have missed some part of the documentation please let me know. If you are having the same opinion as me regarding the functionality of Spaces, let Apple know.

This seems to be a basic omission of foresight on the part of the Apple design staff. They usually do such a good job, no, a great job. This job ... not so much.

"Maybe it's the mad-cow": Denny Crane

ktbubster
Oct 27, 2007, 01:07 PM
I am not sure what you mean, moving a window once it's assigned. I was under the impression that in the expose view of the spaces you have running, you can just drag a window from one space to another... is this not true or am I missing exactly what you are trying to say you want to be able to do?

cohibadad
Oct 27, 2007, 01:27 PM
I am not sure what you mean, moving a window once it's assigned. I was under the impression that in the expose view of the spaces you have running, you can just drag a window from one space to another... is this not true or am I missing exactly what you are trying to say you want to be able to do?

yes. you can force all new windows of a particular app to open in a specific space or you can open it in any space or you can drag individual windows of any app to any space. I just open spaces then expose them all drag a particular window to a space that I need to use it with another window. I think the previous poster is confused.

MonkeyClaw
Oct 27, 2007, 01:28 PM
I am not sure what you mean, moving a window once it's assigned. I was under the impression that in the expose view of the spaces you have running, you can just drag a window from one space to another... is this not true or am I missing exactly what you are trying to say you want to be able to do?

No you can, when in birds eye view you can drag windows to any space. Hell if you take a window, drag it to the edge of the screen and hold click, it will push that window over to the next space. The thing I really like is that you can do expose in particular spaces in birds eye view. Spaces has to be my favorite feature in leopard, soooo nice!

jahbini
Oct 27, 2007, 02:08 PM
Thanks all you guys!

With the 'birds-eye' mode. it IS possible to move a window from one space to another. is my face red: Nothing new in this computing game. At least for me! Spaces is now actually a real solution to the organization problem!

I guess the first time I tried F8, I must have fat-fingered it or something and thought it was the computer's problem. Silly me. :o

As far as Apple's designers: Well done.

MonkeyClaw
Oct 27, 2007, 02:26 PM
Thanks all you guys!

With the 'birds-eye' mode. it IS possible to move a window from one space to another. is my face red: Nothing new in this computing game. At least for me! Spaces is now actually a real solution to the organization problem!

I guess the first time I tried F8, I must have fat-fingered it or something and thought it was the computer's problem. Silly me. :o

As far as Apple's designers: Well done.

Yea spaces is really really really well thought out. They did a fantastic job. I love just flyin around all of them then using expose when i have crowded spaces. Its just so useful!

chris200x9
Oct 27, 2007, 02:31 PM
spaces are inferior to multiple desktops on linux solely because you cannot have different wallpapers :cool:


Just kidding I love spaces and they'll definetly be useful.


mentioning backgrounds....10.5.1 maybe?

hnatow
Oct 29, 2007, 10:43 AM
So I like Spaces. I am thinking it will help me be more organized. I have set certain applications to be set to specific spaces. However, now when someone IMs me with iChat... Spaces automatically takes me to that space. It's kinda annoying when I am trying to work. It is only the initial IM but still... ANNOYING. Has anyone else experienced this?

shoelessone
Oct 29, 2007, 10:57 AM
I really like the idea of spaces, and I always have, but in general I just can't get myself to use them... It ends up being more hastle for me then they are worth.

part of it might also be that I (almost, unless I'm on the road) have two LCDs hooked up. Even still, I use expose so much that I normally don't have a problem managing windows.

The two exceptions to this are when I'm editing multiple images at once (for the newspaper), in which case a seperate work area for photoshop might be nice, AND when I'm programing or writing a web app, so I could have a seperate "space" with a slew of browsers open for testing.

Doctor Q
Oct 29, 2007, 04:27 PM
I've noticed that you can invoke the Exposť "all windows" display from within the Spaces control screen. Press F8 then F9, F9, F9, ... to see it in action.

I'd like to be able to use the Spaces control-number or control-arrow keys from within the Exposť "all windows" display.

Example: You have 2 or more Spaces in use. You press F9 in Space #1 to see the Exposť display. At this point you can press F8 to go to the Spaces control screen, but you can't use control-2 or control-right-arrow to go to Space #2.

mezhopking
Nov 1, 2007, 05:36 PM
Hey,

I like the idea of using Leopard's spaces, but I use a mouse with additional back and forward buttons on it (MS intellimouse).

The problem I am having is simple, whenever I enable spaces it automatically assigns the back and forward buttons to switching spaces!

As you can imagine, this is highly impractical when browsing or when using Finder etc etc.

Is there a way to disable these buttons from calling spaces?

Thanks, Mez.

feyn-man
Nov 1, 2007, 06:42 PM
Hey,

I like the idea of using Leopard's spaces, but I use a mouse with additional back and forward buttons on it (MS intellimouse).

The problem I am having is simple, whenever I enable spaces it automatically assigns the back and forward buttons to switching spaces!

As you can imagine, this is highly impractical when browsing or when using Finder etc etc.

Is there a way to disable these buttons from calling spaces?

Thanks, Mez.

have no idea.
maybe you could ask help at some forum of linux. space is really very old feature for linux.

fisious
Nov 20, 2007, 09:41 PM
I really like the idea of spaces, and I always have, but in general I just can't get myself to use them... It ends up being more hastle for me then they are worth.

I thought this too. Now with 4 spaces in a square I'm using it all the time. General crap on 1 / Mail, Address Book, iCal on 2 / Photoshop on 3 / Word, Excel on 4.

Hey,

I like the idea of using Leopard's spaces, but I use a mouse with additional back and forward buttons on it (MS intellimouse).

The problem I am having is simple, whenever I enable spaces it automatically assigns the back and forward buttons to switching spaces!

Is there a way to disable these buttons from calling spaces?
.

I have this mouse and do not have the problem you mentioned. Have you installed the MS Mouse drivers for OSX?
http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/f/5/6f50ba7d-bce8-4d62-9208-0edf308bd047/Microsoft-Mouse-X-d203.dmg

maestro55
Nov 20, 2007, 10:53 PM
Coming from Linux and being used to having different windows that I could easily switch from I am glad that they decided to include that feature in Leopard. I haven't used it as much on my Mac as I used on the Linux machine but that is because Apple already made multi-tasking easy before spaces.

dannyar
Nov 22, 2007, 08:38 PM
spaces is useless to me.

kutrack1
Nov 23, 2007, 02:22 AM
i love spaces, i used virtue desktops on tiger but this is much cleaner and bug free.

Nadav
Nov 23, 2007, 01:47 PM
So I like Spaces. I am thinking it will help me be more organized. I have set certain applications to be set to specific spaces. However, now when someone IMs me with iChat... Spaces automatically takes me to that space. It's kinda annoying when I am trying to work. It is only the initial IM but still... ANNOYING. Has anyone else experienced this?

What I did was make iChat in every space. You can do that by going to spaces preferences, and assign applications to any specific space, or all spaces.

wuptydo7
Nov 23, 2007, 04:19 PM
Spaces is good
it is a copy of an old beta a company for mac was working on called virtua desktop, but it is way better
so no complaints on my end, but whoever made virtua desktops might be a little angry:mad:

SaSaSushi
Nov 25, 2007, 06:58 AM
Best use I've come up with so far for Spaces is running VMware Fusion in one space fullscreen and switching back and forth when I need to run something in Windows.

For this purpose it is flawless.

yeroen
Nov 25, 2007, 10:51 AM
What I wished Apple would provide would be a means for is disabling the annoying animation when toggling between virtual desktops. I'm sure the new Core Animation layer in Leopard is cool for some stuff, but in this context it's just distracting and unnecessary.

leviticus
Dec 9, 2007, 03:16 AM
spaces is useless to me.

It sounds like you should try doing more with your computer then. Just a thought.

For people who actually use more than one or two things at once use and love spaces. It makes things much easier and faster to navigate.

Eidorian
Dec 9, 2007, 03:18 AM
It sounds like you should try doing more with your computer then. Just a thought.

For people who actually use more than one or two things at once use and love spaces. It makes things much easier and faster to navigate.It's better for a laptop or single monitor machines.

Spaces on dual monitors isn't too pretty.

roker
Dec 9, 2007, 03:31 AM
spaces is useless to me.

I find spaces useless & annoying as well, so I have it disabled, frequently using :apple:+M instead. But I don't do very much with my 15" screen, so I can see it would be useful for someone who does...

Eidorian
Dec 9, 2007, 03:32 AM
I find spaces useless & annoying as well, so I have it disabled, frequently using :apple:+M instead. But I don't do very much with my 15" screen, so I can see it would be useful for someone who does...Have you tried hiding instead of minimizing?

Cave Man
Dec 9, 2007, 09:32 AM
For me, Spaces is rather anemic. I much prefer You Controls Desktop. I've been using it for years and thought that Spaces would be as good or better. Let's hope Apple can rectify this soon.

Steven Ballmer
Dec 9, 2007, 09:45 PM
Vista in multimode mode works waaaay better!

WildPalms
Dec 9, 2007, 09:50 PM
Vista in multimode mode works waaaay better!

Attaboy, troll-boy :p

...oh wait, you wont be able to read this message because you arent yet standards compliant, standardized, and still catching up to 1987 approaches to single user operating systems :p

mag2001
Dec 10, 2007, 12:26 AM
I LOVE spaces!!!!!1 Thank you APPLE

roker
Dec 10, 2007, 04:14 AM
Have you tried hiding instead of minimizing?

Yes, but I prefer being able to see my minimized windows sitting in the dock, so that I can find the ones I want easily & quickly. Its an obsession of mine, but its also why I don't like the way your different windows just stack on top of each other in OS X, with no running commentary on multiple windows in applications. I thought :apple: was going to do something cool & useful in the way stacks work for managing multiple windows for applications but they haven't. IMO, stacks are pretty useless too, but have potential to be more than just show off graphics.

SrWebDeveloper
Dec 10, 2007, 03:41 PM
My .02 and an actual setup suggestion (not just "theory") using 4 spaces which keeps its simple but powerful.

Spaces and Expose' work together.

The object is to inspire you to re-think how you access your most frequently used apps so you do less clicking, have more room on the desktop but still be able to drag/drop between related apps, and of course always be able to quickly get back to your desktop at any time. And, as noted in recent replies, be able to minimize and get back to that app as quickly as possible, without being hidden.

After enabling Expose' and spaces (including enabling the tiny spaces icon to show up in the launch pad at the top)

Step 1: In Expose' setup set all four corners to "Desktop"
Step 2: In spaces setup create 4 spaces (2 x 2)
Step 3: Populate your most popular 3 apps where you prefer "maximized" or wide windows, one each in the first 3 spaces. Configure this in the spaces setup (use the + key) so each app opens in its respective space every time.

Example (my setup):

Space 1 - Firefox browser
Space 2 - Mail
Space 3 - iCalendar
Space 4 - generic, use this for everything else, i.e. your "normal desktop"

Step 4: Now, make sure all 3 apps listed above are in the task bar (dock) starting from the far left, and drag them so they're in the same order, left to right.
Step 5: Set each app to "Load at login" (right click icon) and also "Keep in dock"
Step 6: Load each app into it's proper space and re-size each as you see fit (if not already there)

Okay, that's all the setup there is.

Now, when you boot or re-login each app will automatically be loaded into its proper space, and sized just the way you left them.

If you click on any of their icons in the task bar (dock), your Mac will automatically "switch" to the proper space and show the app.

Meanwhile, if you simply move the mouse to any corner of any space, the apps in that space will "dock" (move to the left or right, shown as thin bar) which is NOT the same as hidden! This frees up any clutter ONLY in that space and allows you to open other apps, i.e. to drag/drop content between windows. Then simply click on any "docked" area to return its app to its original position and size. Or it's icon in the task bar (dock) to accomplish the same!

And on top of all this, you can use either the many Spaces shortcuts to switch between/rotate amongst spaces OR select a space using the tiny icon in the launch pad at the top. Remember, the fourth space isn't reserved for any specific app, use it for your games, other productivity, finder, etc. Your generic work area. You see, the other 3 spaces are devoted to stuff most important to you, i.e. browsing, checking email and whatever else - with nice large windows. And don't forget you don't have to spend any time moving apps between spaces because the first 3 load automatically at login/boot and the fourth is really your original "desktop".

This overall setup also means you don't have to click as often to minimize (zero click if using corners, actually) and less shortcuts to remember/use.

Folks, this is but one approach of many - I expect people to have variations of this theme in their setup, more or less windows, but you get the idea. Hope this helps someone out there! This is a new way of thinking, and when you're a former Window user, take the time to try this. If you're new to Leopard, but a longtime Mac user, I hope you're inspired! Alot of people don't use new features because there are few examples of how to implement them!

Consider this an example, and some inspiration with very little perspiration (sweat) to set it up !!!

-jim