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MacRumors
Oct 18, 2007, 09:19 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With Leopard's official announcement, Apple now details a list (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html) of 300+ new features that can be found in Mac OS X 10.5.

Sitening compiled (http://sitening.com/blog/2007/10/16/16-coolest-new-features-in-mac-os-x-105-that-you-didnt-know-about) a list (with descriptions) of 16 of what they felt were the coolest least known features coming in Leopard.

• TextEdit: OpenDocument and Word 2007 Formats
• Terminal: Workspaces
• .Mac Sync for System Preferences
• Guest Log-In Accounts
• Grammar Check
• Scroll Non-Active Windows
• Printer Drivers via Software Update
• PDF Manipulation in Preview
• Self-Tuning TCP
• Archive Mailbox
• SMS Forwarding
• Event Dropbox
• Font Auto-Activation
• Instant Screen Sharing from the Finder
• Wikipedia in Dictionary
• Synchronize with Yahoo! address book


Yesterday, we took a look at some of the under the hood improvements and system requirements (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/17/leopard-under-the-hood-and-requirements-analysis/) as compared to Tiger.

Meanwhile, AppleInsider looks at iCal 3.0 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/17/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_ical_3_0.html) and Safari 3.0 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/18/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_safari_3_0.html), and Apple has updated (http://www.apple.com/macosx/) their website, which shows off the major new features of Leopard.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/some-of-leopards-300-new-features/)



Grimace
Oct 18, 2007, 09:21 AM
LOVE getting printer drivers via SWU. It's such a hassle sometimes through the manufacturers' sites. Hopefully Apple has it down.

xUKHCx
Oct 18, 2007, 09:24 AM
LOVE getting printer drivers via SWU. It's such a hassle sometimes through the manufacturers' sites. Hopefully Apple has it down.

Also paves the way to third party downloads. This will tie in well with the application signing for security measures.

BenRoethig
Oct 18, 2007, 09:24 AM
Most of those I can definitely use.

Southern
Oct 18, 2007, 09:24 AM
Support in Textedit of MS Office and OO.org? AWESOME! Even basic text editors should be compliant in these filetypes too :D

Other than that, things like a non-beta Bootcamp are good for me!

Darkroom
Oct 18, 2007, 09:29 AM
PDF Manipulation in Preview!!! HELLSYA!!

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 09:30 AM
Grammar check FTW!

superleccy
Oct 18, 2007, 09:32 AM
A good pick. Sometimes the little features, tweaks and improvements can make as much difference as the headline items.

Maybe I'm being swept along on the hype, but in recent weeks I've been wondering why any home user would want to use anything other than a Mac once Leopard is introduced. They're so far ahead of Windows Vista in every single respect.

If there is any justice in the world, then Apple should really significantly eat into MS's home marketshare over the next year or two.

Also, I'm sick of being asked to set-up & fix Windoze PCs belonging to friends, family and colleagues. If they all just switched to Mac then my life would be way easier, and so would theirs.

There's my £0.02p.

JP

dmon
Oct 18, 2007, 09:32 AM
As long as there is no java6 Leopard is completely useless for me and thousands of other developers. I'm not going to spend my money on Leopard as long as there is no confirmation of Java support..

:(

miketcool
Oct 18, 2007, 09:36 AM
I was just trying to scroll a window in the background yesterday while taking notes for a class. It seems intuitive so Im glad it was added to the list of improvements!

Le Big Mac
Oct 18, 2007, 09:37 AM
"Guest log in"?

I think I've already done that by creating a "guest" user account with no password required.

Nightkrawler
Oct 18, 2007, 09:38 AM
Umn does that mean "home on ipod" (http://www.google.at/search?q=home+on+ipod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a) is finally here or am i missing the point :confused:?

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 09:39 AM
I'm wondering if iChat SMS will work in the UK (although I seriously doubt it)...

swingerofbirch
Oct 18, 2007, 09:39 AM
I think guest log in is awesome, don't have to worry about people leaving junk behind and don't have to worry about nosy visitors looking into my journal etc.

Grammar check is always amusing with its suggestions, unless Apple has really one-upped the one Microsoft uses in Word.

bigandy
Oct 18, 2007, 09:40 AM
1 TextEdit: OpenDocument and Word 2007 Formats
2 Terminal: Workspaces
3 Grammar Check
4 Archive Mailbox

They're great. Because:

1 - OpenDocument and W2k7 support be good :)
2 - OMFG I'm in terminal all the time using SSH, it'll be great ;)
3 - Maybe MacRumors members can use it :p
4 - I've been wanting Mail.app to do this for years now. :rolleyes:

stoid
Oct 18, 2007, 09:41 AM
"Guest log in"?

I think I've already done that by creating a "guest" user account with no password required.

But this will reset that guest account on logout, so you don't have to worry about maintaining the account.

xUKHCx
Oct 18, 2007, 09:42 AM
Umn does that mean "home on ipod" (http://www.google.at/search?q=home+on+ipod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a) is finally here or am i missing the point :confused:?

perhaps paving they way while testing the waters, after all it is not for general public use being on the server page.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 09:42 AM
Having a Mail activity progress bar will be awesome, its hard to see whats going on now...

bigandy
Oct 18, 2007, 09:42 AM
"Guest log in"?

I think I've already done that by creating a "guest" user account with no password required.

it's more secure though. kind of like a sandbox type thingy.


i'd assume :rolleyes:

pashazade
Oct 18, 2007, 09:43 AM
• Synchronize with Yahoo! address book


This is possible now in Address Book. I noticed it recently but not sure if it's a 10.4.10 feature?

gigiuk
Oct 18, 2007, 09:44 AM
I've had to say WOW to quite a few of those. A great bunch of ideas. More useful to me than some of the already known features. It looks like I may be getting Leopard as soon as it comes out after all! :D

happydude
Oct 18, 2007, 09:44 AM
oh man, can't wait. text edit support for word and open document - brilliant!! plus guest login will be awesome since coworkers at work, friends at home/school are always on my computers. would rather not have them looking at mail, personal documents! how fantastic!!

crees!
Oct 18, 2007, 09:46 AM
Self-tuning TCP.. sweet. I guess now I'll be able to see if my 15Mbps FiOS internet is really near 15Mbps. So far it seems too slow. Though perception is different than hard numbers when calculating net speed.

Transeau
Oct 18, 2007, 09:46 AM
As long as there is no java6 Leopard is completely useless for me and thousands of other developers. I'm not going to spend my money on Leopard as long as there is no confirmation of Java support..

:(

Thank God. One less person to bitch about the new dock!

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 09:46 AM
AutoFS. :D

koobcamuk
Oct 18, 2007, 09:47 AM
Umn does that mean "home on ipod" (http://www.google.at/search?q=home+on+ipod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a) is finally here or am i missing the point :confused:?

I hope so; I know some companies offer an application that does exactly this. If this is true, then it's totally awesome!

rxse7en
Oct 18, 2007, 09:47 AM
Oh. My. God. Font auto-activation! The end of font management 3rd party apps? Not since the heady days of Adobe Type Manager have I been truly comfortable with font management. Booyah! Semper font!

KingYaba
Oct 18, 2007, 09:48 AM
I like the Dictionary application as it is. Wikipedia will only poison it.

richard.mac
Oct 18, 2007, 09:48 AM
pdf manipulating, guest account and grammar checking are way cool. the guest account and grammar checking is what i missed in xp. my friends can use the guest account without using my account with all my keychains and login items. and the grammar checking will be useful when im writing my psychology and biology essays for uni...

DTphonehome
Oct 18, 2007, 09:48 AM
So which are the TOP SECRET features Steve was gloating about?

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 09:49 AM
I've had to say WOW to quite a few of those. A great bunch of ideas. More useful to me than some of the already known features. It looks like I may be getting Leopard as soon as it comes out after all! :D

Yep, its the small things that usually make the biggest difference in an OS...

apearlman
Oct 18, 2007, 09:50 AM
I haven't studied all 300, but it seems Apple may be creatively counting "features." From the parental controls section, don't these two seem a bit redundant?

"Dynamic Web Filter

... You can override the filter by identifying sites you wish to explicitly allow or disallow certain websites.

Web Filter Overrides

Override the dynamic web content filter to allow your children to view certain blocked sites or prevent them from viewing sites that normally aren’t blocked by the filter."

By this method of counting, my car has two different features:
1. A complete set of foot pedals to control going and stopping.
2. A brake pedal to stop the car.

Sorry to intrude on the jubilation. You may all resume trumpeting your favorite of the "300+" features.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 09:50 AM
I like the Dictionary application as it is. Wikipedia will only poison it.

Wikipedia is great for the more obscure things Dictionary doesn't know...and its done in a nice Apple interface...

rented mule
Oct 18, 2007, 09:51 AM
As long as there is no java6 Leopard is completely useless for me and thousands of other developers. I'm not going to spend my money on Leopard as long as there is no confirmation of Java support..

:(

Good...I don't think I ever want to see another Java app on Mac. If we can get the Java developers to stay away from Mac, it's an OS X feature that gets my blessing. :D

apearlman
Oct 18, 2007, 09:51 AM
So which are the TOP SECRET features Steve was gloating about?

I think it was the new academic "discount".

Fotek2001
Oct 18, 2007, 09:53 AM
You can already scroll a background (inactive) window in Tiger (10.4):

1) Hold down the Apple/Cmd key
2) Drag the scroll bar in an inactive window in the background

You can also drag windows around in the background using the same method. The one thing you can't do is use the scroll wheel though.

Wild-Bill
Oct 18, 2007, 09:53 AM
Where's "Resolution Independence" ???

What else does Leopard not have that it was supposed to have???

nebben123
Oct 18, 2007, 09:54 AM
You've always been able to scroll non-active windows, even in Mac OS 9 (and maybe even before that). Just hold down the CMD key, and click on the scroll bar of an inactive window. You can scroll it without making it the front window (you can also move the window around, or close it, etc).

Why does this guy apparently think this is "new" in Leopard?

Ben

[edit: Looks like Fotek2001 beat me to it. GMTA.]

DTphonehome
Oct 18, 2007, 09:54 AM
You can already scroll a background (inactive) window in Tiger (10.4):

1) Hold down the Apple/Cmd key
2) Drag the scroll bar in an inactive window in the background

You can also drag windows around in the background using the same method. The one thing you can't do is use the scroll wheel though.

Hey that's pretty cool, thanks for the tip.

apearlman
Oct 18, 2007, 09:55 AM
Grammar check FTW!

Hasn't MS Word had a grammar check for 5 or 10 years already? Do other apps really need a grammar check? Seems like an odd one to bundle with an OS.

DTphonehome
Oct 18, 2007, 09:55 AM
Where's "Resolution Independence" ???


Yeah, wasn't that supposed to be a BIG feature?

Dagless
Oct 18, 2007, 09:56 AM
Leopard you beauty :)

DTphonehome
Oct 18, 2007, 09:56 AM
Hasn't MS Word had a grammar check for 5 or 10 years already? Do other apps really need a grammar check? Seems like an odd one to bundle with an OS.

If it's nearly as intrusive as MS Word's, I'll be turning it off pronto.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 09:56 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With Leopard's official announcement, Apple now details a list (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html) of 300+ new features that can be found in Mac OS X 10.5.

Sitening compiled (http://sitening.com/blog/2007/10/16/16-coolest-new-features-in-mac-os-x-105-that-you-didnt-know-about) a list (with descriptions) of 16 of what they felt were the coolest least known features coming in Leopard.

• TextEdit: OpenDocument and Word 2007 Formats
• Terminal: Workspaces
• .Mac Sync for System Preferences
• Guest Log-In Accounts
• Grammar Check
• Scroll Non-Active Windows
• Printer Drivers via Software Update
• PDF Manipulation in Preview
• Self-Tuning TCP
• Archive Mailbox
• SMS Forwarding
• Event Dropbox
• Font Auto-Activation
• Instant Screen Sharing from the Finder
• Wikipedia in Dictionary
• Synchronize with Yahoo! address book


Yesterday, we took a look at some of the under the hood improvements and system requirements (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/17/leopard-under-the-hood-and-requirements-analysis/) as compared to Tiger.

Meanwhile, AppleInsider looks at iCal 3.0 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/17/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_ical_3_0.html) and Safari 3.0 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/18/road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_safari_3_0.html), and Apple has updated (http://www.apple.com/macosx/) their website which show off the major new features of Leopard.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/some-of-leopards-300-new-features/)Also the full true 32-bit compatible 64-bit support into the future - finally. Very exciting.

nagromme
Oct 18, 2007, 09:56 AM
Where's "Resolution Independence" ???

What else does Leopard not have that it was supposed to have???

I think res-independence will be there, but not exposed to the user nor touted by Apple for some time. Months? Whenever enough apps are ready for it that the real-world experience of the feature doesn't suck.

I'd love that to be this month, but am not holding my breath. At the same time, I don't expect the feature will have to wait for 10.6 :) Apple will pull the switch some time between now and then, I predict.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 09:57 AM
Where's "Resolution Independence" ???

What else does Leopard not have that it was supposed to have???

Fast OS switching was mentioned on the website for a few hours and now we don't have it.

We don't have the iChat hologram effect shown here:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/06/smallish_holograph.jpg

mduser63
Oct 18, 2007, 09:58 AM
Wikipedia in Dictionary.app is cool, but I'm more pleased to see Japanese-English and English-Japanese dictionaries in Dictionary.app. Somewhat strange that the only foreign language they're adding is Japanese, but since that's the only foreign language I speak, it's fine with me!

You've always been able to scroll non-active windows, even in Mac OS 9 (and maybe even before that). Just hold down the CMD key, and click on the scroll bar of an inactive window. You can scroll it without making it the front window (you can also move the window around, or close it, etc).

Why does this guy apparently think this is "new" in Leopard?

Ben

[edit: Looks like Fotek2001 beat me to it. GMTA.]

I think the difference is that in Leopard you can use the scroll wheel. Still, doesn't seem like a very big deal to me...

DavidLeblond
Oct 18, 2007, 10:00 AM
Hasn't MS Word had a grammar check for 5 or 10 years already? Do other apps really need a grammar check? Seems like an odd one to bundle with an OS.

Safari maybe? I know plenty of forums that would benefit.

richard.mac
Oct 18, 2007, 10:02 AM
Umn does that mean "home on ipod" (http://www.google.at/search?q=home+on+ipod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a) is finally here or am i missing the point :confused:?

well you can use an ipod as an external drive so i dont see why you cant. you have to use leopard server though.

on another note... how did u get the google icon in the search bar of your safari? of is that firefox with a wannabe safari theme?

0racle
Oct 18, 2007, 10:03 AM
As long as there is no java6 Leopard is completely useless for me and thousands of other developers. I'm not going to spend my money on Leopard as long as there is no confirmation of Java support..
It will show up eventually (if it's not already in it, I don't know how long it's been out). Java is a solid piece of OS X.

Hasn't MS Word had a grammar check for 5 or 10 years already? Do other apps really need a grammar check? Seems like an odd one to bundle with an OS.
Yes MS Office had it, but that didn't extend to say Safari text inputs. OS X having it exposes it to every application where you input text.

chrisgeleven
Oct 18, 2007, 10:03 AM
Hasn't MS Word had a grammar check for 5 or 10 years already? Do other apps really need a grammar check? Seems like an odd one to bundle with an OS.

That is definitely a feature that would be nice to have when writing e-mails, posting on blogs, posting on forums, etc.

I still can't believe Windows doesn't have built-in inline spell checking so other apps can take advantage of it. This is 2007. Word has had the feature since what, Office 97? Maybe even Office 95?

Nightkrawler
Oct 18, 2007, 10:07 AM
on another note... how did u get the google icon in the search bar of your safari? of is that firefox with a wannabe safari theme?
it is :p (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4002859&postcount=7)
I just cannot surf without my addons :)

flopticalcube
Oct 18, 2007, 10:08 AM
Hmmm. Sync with Yahoo! is cool but Time Machine isn't? :rolleyes:

longofest
Oct 18, 2007, 10:08 AM
Self-tuning TCP.. sweet. I guess now I'll be able to see if my 15Mbps FiOS internet is really near 15Mbps. So far it seems too slow. Though perception is different than hard numbers when calculating net speed.

When you have those huge pipes coming into your home, sometimes the bottleneck actually begins being somewhere other than the last mile. For instance, the servers you're connecting to may only allow serving at a certain bitrate to each client to prevent one client from eating too much of its resources.

However, downloading from iTunes or someone that uses Alkami (spelling??) should be blazing fast.

nagromme
Oct 18, 2007, 10:09 AM
We don't have the iChat hologram effect shown here:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/06/smallish_holograph.jpg

The 300 list is still not ALL the features of Leopard :) Date-sorting of Column view is also not listed, but I believe Leopard has that option.

I think the hologram effect is covered by "or other video effects" :)

raftr
Oct 18, 2007, 10:11 AM
One feature is missing in the news, I wonder if they kept it in the production version: A2DP audio over bluetooth protocol - it's something that's been in windows and linuxes for years, but never in OSX. Until Leopard betas that is.

Why didn't Apple implement it before? Seems simple: allowing you to stream music to your stereo via bluetooth would render Airtunes via Airport useless.
Actually, A2DP is the main reason I am interested in upgrading to Leopard.
Why aren't they advertising it among the 300 features? Did it not make it to the final version or they just don't want to hurt airport sales?

indie1982
Oct 18, 2007, 10:11 AM
OK can anyone confirm that Leopard has support for playback of commercial HD-DVD or Bluray?

I thought it would have been one of the major selling points if it did!

chrisgeleven
Oct 18, 2007, 10:12 AM
One feature is missing in the news, I wonder if they kept it in the production version: A2DP audio over bluetooth protocol - it's something that's been in windows and linuxes for years, but never in OSX. Until Leopard betas that is.

Why didn't Apple implement it before? Seems simple: allowing you to stream music to your stereo via bluetooth would render Airtunes via Airport useless.
Actually, A2DP is the main reason I am interested in upgrading to Leopard.
Why aren't they advertising it among the 300 features? Did it not make it to the final version or they just don't want to hurt airport sales?

Could also be they just didn't think of it as one of the top 300 new features.

We will find out in just over a week.

samh004
Oct 18, 2007, 10:15 AM
• .Mac Sync for System Preferences

I wasn't even aware this was a new .Mac feature, sounds useful.

• Grammar Check

Looking forward to this to stop me making silly grammar errors like the have/of issue the other day.

• Scroll Non-Active Windows

I'm pretty sure you used to be able to control the iTunes volume slider when you weren't in the iTunes window, however that's no longer possible, but I hope this brings that back too.

• Printer Drivers via Software Update

Useful if you have a manufacturer that releases frequent updates.

• SMS Forwarding

Only US ?

Those lesser-known features look quite good to me. Just bought a RAID dual-drive for my Airport today, in preparation for Leopard's Time Machine.

I still can't believe Windows doesn't have built-in inline spell checking so other apps can take advantage of it. This is 2007. Word has had the feature since what, Office 97? Maybe even Office 95?

That's one of the things I hate about Windows when I use it, suddenly spell checking is no longer apparent system wide, because it's a Word-only feature. Seems really silly, and all too easy to implement.

DavidLeblond
Oct 18, 2007, 10:16 AM
Hmmm. Sync with Yahoo! is cool but Time Machine isn't? :rolleyes:

This is the top 16 least known coolest features. I think we all know Time Machine is part of Leopard.

Frisco
Oct 18, 2007, 10:16 AM
OS X is really evolving nicely!

flopticalcube
Oct 18, 2007, 10:17 AM
One feature is missing in the news, I wonder if they kept it in the production version: A2DP audio over bluetooth protocol - it's something that's been in windows and linuxes for years, but never in OSX. Until Leopard betas that is.

Why didn't Apple implement it before? Seems simple: allowing you to stream music to your stereo via bluetooth would render Airtunes via Airport useless.
Actually, A2DP is the main reason I am interested in upgrading to Leopard.
Why aren't they advertising it among the 300 features? Did it not make it to the final version or they just don't want to hurt airport sales?

I agree. I would love to have a pair of BT headphones. Apple is behind the curve here. Maybe we need to wait for a new Airport Express before they allow A2DP.

flopticalcube
Oct 18, 2007, 10:18 AM
This is the top 16 least known coolest features. I think we all know Time Machine is part of Leopard.

Ahh. I get it now. :o

Fotek2001
Oct 18, 2007, 10:23 AM
We don't have the iChat hologram effect shown here:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2007/06/smallish_holograph.jpg

Yes we do. It's in there. I've tried it and it works great!

DavidLeblond
Oct 18, 2007, 10:24 AM
The 300 list is still not ALL the features of Leopard :) Date-sorting of Column view is also not listed, but I believe Leopard has that option.

I think the hologram effect is covered by "or other video effects" :)

I think he was making mention of an interview (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple/apple-answers-leopard-questions-311345.php) with an Apple employee that suggested the hologram effect may have been axed last minute.

EDIT: Of course the guy was unsure, and furthermore it is a Gizmodo story so... grain of salt.

notjustjay
Oct 18, 2007, 10:28 AM
I'm looking forward to the new text-to-speech engine. The "Alex" demo that Steve showed off earlier (and was once on the website) sounded pretty amazing.

p0intblank
Oct 18, 2007, 10:33 AM
I went over the list last night and I definitely had several "holy crap!" moments. :D I had no idea about some of them until now and I can't wait even more!

dogtanian
Oct 18, 2007, 10:34 AM
I'm looking forward to the new text-to-speech engine. The "Alex" demo that Steve showed off earlier (and was once on the website) sounded pretty amazing.

Huh!? This is news to me! I'd love to know more about this 'Alex' gent if anyone knows anything...

Le Big Mac
Oct 18, 2007, 10:36 AM
perhaps paving they way while testing the waters, after all it is not for general public use being on the server page.

So you'd need server first, and then still to be in the server environment, right? Because Server 10.4 allows putting a home directory on the server and then syncing to each mac connected to the server based on login. This seems to add only that you could use an external drive, which I don't see quite what that adds . . .

xUKHCx
Oct 18, 2007, 10:38 AM
Huh!? This is news to me! I'd love to know more about this 'Alex' gent if anyone knows anything...

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu0bVMAovGw) (last 15 seconds) and ...

Alex — A New Voice
Give yourself a new voice. Meet Alex — a new English male voice that uses advanced, patented Apple technologies to deliver natural breathing and intonation, even at fast speaking rates.

elppa
Oct 18, 2007, 10:38 AM
Hasn't MS Word had a grammar check for 5 or 10 years already? Do other apps really need a grammar check? Seems like an odd one to bundle with an OS.

Not really, it system wide, so it's one less thing for developers to write and the users get a consistent experience.

It works really well in Dictionary, if you add a word to the Dictionary in Mail, when you spell that same word in Safari it will recognise it and won't flag it as an error.

If you use Office and Firefox (for example), they each have there own incompatible dictionary, so you would have to add the same word twice.

MrMoore
Oct 18, 2007, 10:39 AM
I like the PDF manipulation in Preview. I scan all my monthly bills and invoice with my HP Photsmart, but it only allows one scanned page per PDF file. When my bills has two or more pages, I need to combine the PDFs. I was able to create a menu option through Automator to combine PDF files, but it does not allow much control. Hopefully the preview option allow finer control like sorting or ordering the pages in a PDF.

:apple:

paddykev
Oct 18, 2007, 10:42 AM
One of the more fun features on leopard will be using the new back drops on ichat. Just feel it’s a shame that there is still no support for msn or yahoo accounts 'out of the box' and people will still be forced to use alternatives like skype etc when conversing with pc users who don't use aim.

Just curious if flash will run smoother in leopard than tiger instead of making my mbp fans spin up to full speed and heat my lap :rolleyes:

So many new features though, I think there are going to be features that appeal to everyone in this release. Anyone else want the apple countdown timer as a dashboard widget? :cool:

La Porta
Oct 18, 2007, 10:44 AM
OK can anyone confirm that Leopard has support for playback of commercial HD-DVD or Bluray?

I thought it would have been one of the major selling points if it did!

It wouldn't, not yet anyhows: what good is it if none of our computers have any built-in drives for the discs themselves?

hayesk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:51 AM
Also, I'm sick of being asked to set-up & fix Windoze PCs belonging to friends, family and colleagues. If they all just switched to Mac then my life would be way easier, and so would theirs.


I stopped helping people with PCs. They asked me what kind of computer to buy and I told them. They ignored my purchase advice, so they're on their own.

hayesk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:52 AM
Umn does that mean "home on ipod" (http://www.google.at/search?q=home+on+ipod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a) is finally here or am i missing the point :confused:?

That would be one surefire way to kill your iPod quickly. The disk in the iPod is not built for constant use like a laptop or desktop disk. It's also too slow.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 10:53 AM
I stopped helping people with PCs. They asked me what kind of computer to buy and I told them. They ignored my purchase advice, so they're on their own.

Thats a bit harsh...I just resort to making snide comments...

hayesk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:53 AM
You've always been able to scroll non-active windows, even in Mac OS 9 (and maybe even before that). Just hold down the CMD key, and click on the scroll bar of an inactive window. You can scroll it without making it the front window (you can also move the window around, or close it, etc).

Why does this guy apparently think this is "new" in Leopard?


Uhm... I believe he means scroll with the mouse's scroll wheel on Leopard. You can't do that right now.

Marx55
Oct 18, 2007, 10:56 AM
So, what are the SUPER-SECRET features that Steve Jobs talked about for Leopard, months ago before Windows Vista was released? I am lost on that! Thanks.

quovadis
Oct 18, 2007, 10:57 AM
Support in Textedit of MS Office and OO.org? AWESOME! Even basic text editors should be compliant in these filetypes too :D



I second this sentiment!

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 10:58 AM
As others have mentioned, it is often the less-hyped aspects of a new OS I find more impressive than the big headlines on Apple's pages.

Sure, Time Machine sounds revolutionary, no doubt. And things like Spaces, new Finder, etc. - all sound wonderful.

But Sitening's list represent some of the daily, efficiency features I dig.
Working on a Mac 10+ hours a day - these tend to be the things that can make or break an upgrade, for me.

I really like the .Mac sync of Sys Prefs. I sync between 3 Macs, daily. 2 home & 1 work Mac (and an iPhone). The ability to sync Sys Prefs will literally allow for identical setups (use experience) no matter what Mac I am using. Kickass.

Scrolling non-active Windows is nifty. I don't always want to have to select another window to scroll for (say) some info and then reselect the original window to implement said info. In know this involves only 2 mouse clicks - but still... multiplied over the amount of tie I am on a mac and seemingly little things like this can become big over time. So this appears a welcome, if not small, adjustment. :p

Font auto-activation sounds promising - tho I am curious how this will actually work.

Wiki in Dictionary – guess I can remove that Bookmark from Safari.

Overall, Leopard seems a much more substantial upgrade than Tiger was from Panther. Almost as substantial as OS X was to OS 9!
As long as imperative apps like Office 2004 (wife depends heavily on this) and CS2 still work, I will be upgrading almost immediately.

8.
More.
Days.

Preclaro_tipo
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
AutoFS. :D

I could not agree more with your giant teeth showing smilie icon. ;)

I have multiple shared volumes that i access regularly. (about 4) I mount them putting a shared folder (a folder enclosed in the shared volume) shortcut in the left panel of the Finder. So i click on the folders to mount the shared volumes several of which are on windows machines and one is a network drive (NAS).

I do this daily and get pushed to near rage when I have to stop what I am doing while the volume mounts. I hate seeing that spinning beach ball...and that is the good days. on the days when, say, the NAS device is off or the shared windows volume is not accessible (machine shut down) my entire computer is locked up while the finder looks for the volume indefinitely. I have to force quit finder...that process puts me near blinding rage. :mad: :rolleyes:

Not having the system hang for even a few seconds for a mounting activity like this is usually the difference between a "slow feeling" system and one the "feels responsive" (and all those other qualitative feelings that an OS creates).

Not to make a big stupid statement, but, here it goes, I would pay $65 for AutoFS only!! 299 features for another $65...not bad from my perspective.

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
Support in Textedit of MS Office and OO.org? AWESOME! Even basic text editors should be compliant in these filetypes too :D

I second this sentiment!

And I'll third this.

nagromme
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
One of the more fun features on leopard will be using the new back drops on ichat. Just feel it’s a shame that there is still no support for msn or yahoo accounts 'out of the box' and people will still be forced to use alternatives like skype etc when conversing with pc users who don't use aim.

Just curious if flash will run smoother in leopard than tiger instead of making my mbp fans spin up to full speed and heat my lap :rolleyes:

So many new features though, I think there are going to be features that appeal to everyone in this release. Anyone else want the apple countdown timer as a dashboard widget? :cool:

I'm betting a new Flash plugin is coming--made by Adobe with Apple's help--to make it more efficient on Macs AND finally efficient enough to include with iPhone and iPod Touch. Not coming with Leopard, but some time in future.

That would be one surefire way to kill your iPod quickly. The disk in the iPod is not built for constant use like a laptop or desktop disk. It's also too slow.

IIRC the earliest 1.8" HDs were rated for only occasional use, but I don't think that's true any longer. 1.8" HDs are now suitable for laptop use and for long hours. I actually BOOTED and worked from my old 60 GB iPod Photo for over a week once, while home for the holidays. My parents' Mac magically became MY Mac :) It worked great and barely got warm. (But with "Home on iPod" you wouldn't have to run the whole OS off the iPod like I did, just your Home files.)

morespce54
Oct 18, 2007, 11:00 AM
But this will reset that guest account on logout, so you don't have to worry about maintaining the account.

And *that's* the real deal (to me) :D

sunfast
Oct 18, 2007, 11:01 AM
This is possible now in Address Book. I noticed it recently but not sure if it's a 10.4.10 feature?

I hadn't noticed this (probably being stupid). Could you tell me how?

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:01 AM
So, what are the SUPER-SECRET features that Steve Jobs talked about for Leopard, months ago before Windows Vista was released? I am lost on that! Thanks.

The new desktop (including Stacks), new Finder, consistent UI, prominent front windows and many more...

nagromme
Oct 18, 2007, 11:02 AM
So, what are the SUPER-SECRET features that Steve Jobs talked about for Leopard, months ago before Windows Vista was released? I am lost on that! Thanks.

There is nothing secret now. The new UI was secret, the new Dock, Stacks, and a handful of other things ("secret" or "not yet ready to show" is moot really). That stuff was revealed earlier this year.

gauchogolfer
Oct 18, 2007, 11:07 AM
I think that screen sharing directly from Finder is pretty cool, especially if iChat won't be required on both ends.

kneeslasher
Oct 18, 2007, 11:14 AM
Fast OS switching was mentioned on the website for a few hours and now we don't have it.


I was really looking forward to this (now seemingly nixed) feature.

CmdrLaForge
Oct 18, 2007, 11:15 AM
Where's "Resolution Independence" ???

What else does Leopard not have that it was supposed to have???

This is still mentioned on the developer site (http://developer.apple.com/leopard/overview/):
Resolution Independence
The old assumption that displays are 72dpi has been rendered obsolete by advances in display technology. Macs now ship with displays that sport native resolutions of 100dpi or better. Furthermore, the number of pixels per inch will continue to increase dramatically over the next few years. This will make displays crisper and smoother, but it also means that interfaces that are pixel-based will shrink to the point of being unusable. The solution is to remove the 72dpi assumption that has been the norm. In Leopard, the system will be able to draw user interface elements using a scale factor. This will let the user interface maintain the same physical size while gaining resolution and crispness from high dpi displays.

The introduction of resolution independence may mean that there is work that you’ll need to do in order to make your application look as good as possible. For modern Cocoa applications, most of the work will center around raster-based resources. For older applications that use QuickDraw, more work will be required to replace QuickDraw-based calls with Quartz ones.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:16 AM
I was really looking forward to this (now seemingly nixed) feature.

I wasn't personally, but it would take down the annoyance level of Boot Camp; I'm always telling my friends to switch, but they don't want to have to restart the whole computer just for a game...

Foxglove9
Oct 18, 2007, 11:17 AM
For anyone who has tested Leopard. Can the new dock still be moved to the left or right side of the screen. I always have mine on the right side, as I can't stand it on the bottom.

jamesarm97
Oct 18, 2007, 11:18 AM
I do this daily and get pushed to near rage when I have to stop what I am doing while the volume mounts. I hate seeing that spinning beach ball...and that is the good days. on the days when, say, the NAS device is off or the shared windows volume is not accessible (machine shut down) my entire computer is locked up while the finder looks for the volume indefinitely. I have to force quit finder...that process puts me near blinding rage. :mad: :rolleyes:

Not having the system hang for even a few seconds for a mounting activity like this is usually the difference between a "slow feeling" system and one the "feels responsive" (and all those other qualitative feelings that an OS creates).

Not to make a big stupid statement, but, here it goes, I would pay $65 for AutoFS only!! 299 features for another $65...not bad from my perspective.

Amen there. It is really bad when you are connected to a share at home or work, then close the lid and packup. When it wakes from sleep it usually spins for awhile when it is trying to figure out where the share went. I had to force a reboot just lastnight because I was trying to figure out why copying files over the airport extreme share was so slow and I plugged in a network cable and turned off the airport. Got the beachball and could not kill anything.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:19 AM
For anyone who has tested Leopard. Can the new dock still be moved to the left or right side of the screen. I always have mine on the right side, as I can't stand it on the bottom.

It can...

Nichod
Oct 18, 2007, 11:20 AM
Leopard looks like a good upgrade. Hope the eye candy isn't overdone. Like another OS I know.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:21 AM
Leopard looks like a good upgrade. Hope the eye candy isn't overdone. Like another OS I know.

It looks good to me...beautiful, yet subtle :)

Consultant
Oct 18, 2007, 11:24 AM
I stopped helping people with PCs. They asked me what kind of computer to buy and I told them. They ignored my purchase advice, so they're on their own.

You need to tell them facts, such as.

- PCs need anti-virus and anti-spyware programs. Installing those programs makes their CPU 10% slower.
- Most spams (as much as 90% last checked) comes from infected windoze machines. If you don't like spam then stop using windoze.
- Windoze machines slow down with installation of each new program, even if the program is not being run. That's due to problems with the windoze registry. With a Mac, no matter how many apps you install, it will not slow down the computer.
- Mac OS can run multiple apps at the same time without slow downs
- Windoze machines slow down over time, as soon as a few months after clean install.
- Running a mac = less time trying to figure out where is the incompatible driver / hardware / software / windoze bug, and actually more time doing things you want to do.
- Laptops running windoze has lower battery life than running OSX.
- Macs can boot multiple operating systems, including OSX which is certified Unix, Windoze XP, Windoze Vista, and Linux.
- Macs has a longer usable life, which is lower cost of ownership. That does not even include saving on support (time or money) if you are running OSX.
- .... and lots more reasons, and the last, and most important one,
- Macs will get you laid. =)

jpine
Oct 18, 2007, 11:25 AM
I like the Dictionary application as it is. Wikipedia will only poison it.

I could not agree more. Wikipedia is malware and not a feature,

kingtj
Oct 18, 2007, 11:26 AM
While digging through Apple's complete list of new features posted to their site, I discovered a number of interesting ones related to the "Universal access" portion of Leopard.

One potentially HUGE one for some people has gone totally unmentioned; Leopard is the first OS to support braille output terminals during installation or upgrading. So vision-impaired folks can now install their own OS and understand what's going on during the process!

It's also possible to take a small flash drive and store your Leopard "voiceover" preferences on it - so you can go to any Mac and plug in it, and your personal configuration travels with you. (Since they have a lot of new configuration possible for exactly when and where Leopard will speak/read things to you in the OS, this could be pretty useful too.)

"Hot Spots" is potentially interesting too. In Leopard, it says you can have it "monitor up to 10 areas of the screen, and instantly be alerted to changes in them -- then jump directly to that spot to investigate". Beyond potential usefulness for the handicapped OS X user, I could see this having other creative uses. Say you have multiple displays with a lot of data up on them, like stock quote/tickers. You could let Leopard alert you when something happens in particular areas that you need to keep a close eye on. If this works in conjunction with "Spaces" virtual desktops, even MORE useful - as it could snap you right onto the virtual screen of interest - even if you were busy surfing the net in another screen or something.

Consultant
Oct 18, 2007, 11:26 AM
For anyone who has tested Leopard. Can the new dock still be moved to the left or right side of the screen. I always have mine on the right side, as I can't stand it on the bottom.

Yes the dock can be moved to left or right side, in addition to the bottom.

That's public info. Just read up on the Leopard dock article on AppleInsider

andiwm2003
Oct 18, 2007, 11:30 AM
from what i see there is nothing in leopard that i need. i do my backups myself, don't need/like spaces). so i will wait with my upgrade for a (long) while.

the only thing that seems to be improved is integration with .mac. i will see if they eventually make .mac into what i want and upgrade then.

i think about web based ical, syncing every setting on you mac so that you have identical desktops (dock, windows, shortcuts, screen saver, stickies, widgets) when you go to your second mac.

Slip
Oct 18, 2007, 11:33 AM
The ones Im most loking forward to:

Grammar Check - very useful for some of us round here :rolleyes:
TextEdit: OpenDocument and Word 2007 Formats - at long last!
Scroll Non-Active Windows - at long last!
Printer Drivers via Software Update - saves a bunch of time and leads way to 3rd party app updates :)
.Mac Sync for System Preferences - just plain cool
Wikipedia in Dictionary - and makes sense seeing how ol' Wiki has exploded lately

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 11:37 AM
"Guest log in"?

I think I've already done that by creating a "guest" user account with no password required.

yeah, but when they log out, is every trace of their being there erased?

princigalli
Oct 18, 2007, 11:41 AM
hopefully they'll fix Safari. It's absurd that the default browser is so buggy and unable to run serious javascript.

mdntcallr
Oct 18, 2007, 11:41 AM
I would love to see come nice compatibility of the new OS with programs from 10.4, because it is a bitch when you upgrade your OS and your key programs dont work

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 11:42 AM
You've always been able to scroll non-active windows, even in Mac OS 9 (and maybe even before that). Just hold down the CMD key, and click on the scroll bar of an inactive window. You can scroll it without making it the front window (you can also move the window around, or close it, etc).

Why does this guy apparently think this is "new" in Leopard?

Ben

[edit: Looks like Fotek2001 beat me to it. GMTA.]


that's so 90's. why would i want to click a button AND click a scroll bar when all i have to do is hover over the window (anywhere in the window) and move my scroll whell?

Orng
Oct 18, 2007, 11:42 AM
No more excuses for the bad grammar on this forum, then?

Scrolling non-active windows is freakin' awesome. I'll use that every day.

garty
Oct 18, 2007, 11:44 AM
I hadn't noticed this (probably being stupid). Could you tell me how?


I hadn't either but it is on the address book preferences. Haven't tried it yet.

Consultant
Oct 18, 2007, 11:45 AM
The ones Im most loking forward to:

Scroll Non-Active Windows - at long last!


It's already in tiger. Just mouse over non-active window and scroll, the contents in the non-active window will scroll.

Random Ping
Oct 18, 2007, 11:59 AM
Good...I don't think I ever want to see another Java app on Mac. If we can get the Java developers to stay away from Mac, it's an OS X feature that gets my blessing. :D

I don't know if I have ever seen a java app that I wanted to run, but there have been a few that I had to run and they were gawd awful.

A little factoid: I bought my first Sun workstation right after Sun announced that it was going to make OpenStep the center of its development effort. Sun even bought Lighthouse, one of the leading OpenStep developers with a great suite of NeXTSTEP apps. Then upper management discovered Java and put all their effort behind that and dropped OpenStep.

Good to see Sun made the right choice. :rolleyes:

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 12:03 PM
from what i see there is nothing in leopard that i need. i do my backups myself, don't need/like spaces). so i will wait with my upgrade for a (long) while.

the only thing that seems to be improved is integration with .mac. i will see if they eventually make .mac into what i want and upgrade then.

i think about web based ical, syncing every setting on you mac so that you have identical desktops (dock, windows, shortcuts, screen saver, stickies, widgets) when you go to your second mac.

yeah, but what you're not hearing about is the performance gain. Applications open quicker, startup times are quick, everything just seems faster, even on non 64 bit processors. And stacks are really super useful, in decreases the need to often open a finder window...just click on a stack in the dock.

tiger almost seems like an archaic OS now (opinion).

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 12:04 PM
for those that are interested, the total count is 315 features.

siurpeeman
Oct 18, 2007, 12:05 PM
It's already in tiger. Just mouse over non-active window and scroll, the contents in the non-active window will scroll.

in the finder maybe, but what about safari?

ivi7
Oct 18, 2007, 12:06 PM
I really like the Guest account feature. I had to make another account for that very purpose its nice to have it done by itself

evansls
Oct 18, 2007, 12:07 PM
This is a great feature in leopard.

Network Scanning Support
Take advantage of new Bonjour-based network scanners, Leopard leads the way with the technology required to allow scanning over a network.

Maccus Aurelius
Oct 18, 2007, 12:26 PM
I would love to see come nice compatibility of the new OS with programs from 10.4, because it is a bitch when you upgrade your OS and your key programs dont work

+1

If all programs are compatible right from the start, we have a winner. Too many people would be pissed off if programs they paid don't work. No doubt the major ones will though.

xtine
Oct 18, 2007, 12:29 PM
... i should go about buying my new iMac with Leopard ? Sorry but i'm a tad confused by my first mac buying experience. I'm planning on buying a 24" 2.4GHz iMac but would like to up the RAM and harddrive, if i go into an Apple store on the 27th to buy this - can i have it configured with the extra RAM and memory there and then in the store to take away that day, or do i need to pre-order it or something ? Also if i decided it was easier or faster to buy what i want on-line do i need to wait until the 26th to make sure it's installed with Leopard ?

thanks for any words of wisdom you can offer.

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 12:44 PM
... i should go about buying my new iMac with Leopard ? Sorry but i'm a tad confused by my first mac buying experience. I'm planning on buying a 24" 2.4GHz iMac but would like to up the RAM and harddrive, if i go into an Apple store on the 27th to buy this - can i have it configured with the extra RAM and memory there and then in the store to take away that day, or do i need to pre-order it or something ? Also if i decided it was easier or faster to buy what i want on-line do i need to wait until the 26th to make sure it's installed with Leopard ?

thanks for any words of wisdom you can offer.

there is no guarantee that your machine will have Leopard on it. I don't think they do hard drive upgrades in the store, only ram.

morespce54
Oct 18, 2007, 12:44 PM
This is possible now in Address Book. I noticed it recently but not sure if it's a 10.4.10 feature?

I didn't knew that... How are you doing the sync'ing? Can't find it in AB prefs...

Do you need to set-it up as a LDAP?

QuarterSwede
Oct 18, 2007, 12:54 PM
3 - Maybe MacRumors members can use it :p
Hahaha.

If it's nearly as intrusive as MS Word's, I'll be turning it off pronto.
Not to mention as wrong as Word's is. More than half the time MY grammar is better than it's. I really hope Leopards grammar check is a lot more accurate and actually provides GOOD alternatives.

SthrnCmfrtr
Oct 18, 2007, 12:54 PM
I could not agree more. Wikipedia is malware and not a feature,

Encyclopedia salesman? :P

Seriously, hating Wikipedia is like hating freedom. Why do you hate our freedom, jpine?

QuarterSwede
Oct 18, 2007, 01:05 PM
Encyclopedia salesman? :P

Seriously, hating Wikipedia is like hating freedom. Why do you hate our freedom, jpine?
Because a lot of times the info is wrong. Of course, there are plenty of times it's right, but then again, you never know.

I'll use it but if I'm not sure about the accuracy I'll research it myself.

chrisgeleven
Oct 18, 2007, 01:10 PM
This is a great feature in leopard.

Network Scanning Support
Take advantage of new Bonjour-based network scanners, Leopard leads the way with the technology required to allow scanning over a network.

For laptop users, this will be a great feature in theory. If you have say an Airport Extreme router, you can connect your external HD, printer, and scanner into it. Everything could then be done via wireless, no more worrying about plugging in cables.

Of course, how long will it take for scanners to support bonjour? And of course, the magic question, for how much?

xtine
Oct 18, 2007, 01:10 PM
there is no guarantee that your machine will have Leopard on it. I don't think they do hard drive upgrades in the store, only ram.

Thanks for that info Vassillios, i'm thinking ordering it on-line might be a whole lot easier. Cheers.

Papajohn56
Oct 18, 2007, 01:11 PM
Self tuning TCP is one of the best things ever.

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 01:12 PM
Not to mention as wrong as Word's is. More than half the time MY grammar is better than it's.

Really?!?

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 01:18 PM
Great features! The only missing feature I wish was in there was full NTFS support. This is a biggie as now more and more users are going to use BootCamp with either XP or Vista. Vista doesn't allow you format for FAT32 and XP doesnt always either. So this makes it hard to transfer files back and forth. With NTFS you can only copy files from the NTFS volume, but not write to it. I know that FAT32 is full support.

I don't want some cheesy 3rd party app to do this either. This is something that should be built into the OS. Maybe it is and I'm just not seeing it listed anywhere. Tiger doesn't include it, only full FAT32 support.

The grammar feature is system wide, not just in apps like Word or Pages. So when you use iChat or any other Cocoa based OS X app for example, it will not only do spell check, but also grammar check. I do hope you can turn it off either in the system prefs, or with a simple Unix command just in case it starts to get annoying.


Another thing.....

Please people, stop asking about the damn "Top Secret" features. We already saw them at WWDC 2007. (New Desktop, Dock, Coverflow, etc were the new features!) Apple didn't want Microsoft trying to copy that stuff into Vista or get a head start on it before Apple got Leopard released so they didn't announce it until 2007.

nagromme
Oct 18, 2007, 01:21 PM
Because a lot of times the info is wrong. Of course, there are plenty of times it's right, but then again, you never know.

I'll use it but if I'm not sure about the accuracy I'll research it myself.

A VERY good habit.

But people shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that sources OTHER than Wikipedia are right, or even better--I think there was a comparison to a big-name encyclopedia, and the accuracy rate was about the same. And at least Wikipedia documents the whole process if you want to see the history and rationale behind the info.

It depends on what kind of info you're after, but Wikipedia can be a good, simple, useful tool, and it's nice to have it integrated into the OS.

Or, you could use Leopard's Wiki Server and make your own :)
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/features/wikis.html

Object-X
Oct 18, 2007, 01:22 PM
Leopard in my opinion is not a bold enough vision. Apple needs to figure out that the monitor is the window not the applicaiton container. Microsoft understands this, but Vista is not a complete implementation; but they much closer than I thought. Full-screen interfaces are the future of OS UI. Apple has everything they need to do it but they aren't.

Take iTunes for example. They have a full-screen mode that uses CoverFlow, but it's a useless interface and you have to go back to the GUI to do anything useful. I hate this. CoverFlow in iTunes needs to, at the very least, do what it does on the iPhone or iPod touch. But why stop there? Why not add searching, playlist management, ect. to the full-screen interface? On screen controls is an idea Apple pioneered, why are they not using it? Imagine viewing the iTunes store in full-screen.

iPhoto also has full-screen mode too. It has more useful features, but why not go all the way and make the whole app full-screen? Why not add full-screen to the finder and Safari too?

Now, add your full-screen apps to Spaces, mix in a little Core Animation, and you have a new way of interacting with the OS, a whole new UI paradigm. I really think this is where it's going, or at least where it should go.

But it needs to start with Safari. All three major browsers on Windows support full-screen viewing, but only Opera does on OS X. Opera is too buggy and imcompatible with various web sites to replace Safari. Apple needs to get with the program here. Many web sites can not really be appreciated until you view them full-screen. Apple's own web site looks fantastic in full-screen mode. Try it in Opera if you haven't yet.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but if Apple doesn't get this soon, Vista will and will eventually be better because of it. I've been using Vista all week and you can almost get Windows out of the way and use everything in full-screen mode. The 3D flipper works seemlessly like this. It solves many of the UI issues I hate about Windows. It is almost there. They are so close.

Apple has everything they need but they are just not going for it. I'm very dissappointed at this. I'm not saying that they should replace the GUI, just add a new way of interacting with it with full-screen mode. A bold vision that simply extends what they already have.

The monitor is the window.

eflaten
Oct 18, 2007, 01:23 PM
I have a hell of time dealing with a nashuatec printer pluss zero knowledge and interest on OS X / Linux at the Norwegian resellers and importers of this printers. It prints with PCL6 and or PXL. There is piece of software called ghostscript and foomaticRIP, but this is unstable nerdy stuff most folks at our shared office space cant operate and install. Like edit the provided PPD (http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=NRG-DSc424) file in simpletext and put it deep down in places a macuser should not hang around. Nashuateck/Adobe charges a enormous sum for a poscript card to get the stuff working. Over 1000$! I installed CUPS 1.3 Then Adobe CS 3 worked and it was easyer to get coennected to the printer. That installer was pulled when Apple bought CUPS and that guy.

So I hope some serious printersupport for PCL in leopard. What will come?

nagromme
Oct 18, 2007, 01:28 PM
Leopard in my opinion is not a bold enough vision. Apple needs to figure out that the monitor is the window not the applicaiton container. Microsoft understands this, but Vista is not a complete implementation; but they much closer than I thought. Full-screen interfaces are the future of OS UI. Apple has everything they need to do it but they aren't.

Interesting, and I agree that full-screen UIs have their place for certain things. And a lot of it comes down to personal preference.

But I strongly disagree that using only ONE window and app at a time is the future. With today's big screens and powerful computers, workflows that span multiple apps are very practical and useful. What used to take up the whole screen can now fit very nicely on half--with another relevant app beside it ready for drag and drop. And others available in an instant via Exposé--the best thing to happen to multitasking since... forever!

If Microsoft's future is to use only a single app at a time, I won't worry when Apple doesn't follow :)

Full-screen is great SOMETIMES, but all the time? That's a little TOO bold a vision. That's going back to the 70s :)

50548
Oct 18, 2007, 01:55 PM
SIMPLE QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR THOSE THAT HAVE USED THE LATEST DEVELOPER RELEASES:

How well-performing is Leopard compared with Tiger? I mean, for a desktop like mine, a single G5 with 2.0 GHz and 1Gb of RAM. I wanna know if I should pre-order it or not...

Thanks in advance!

siren77
Oct 18, 2007, 01:56 PM
So many new features though, I think there are going to be features that appeal to everyone in this release. Anyone else want the apple countdown timer as a dashboard widget? :cool:

Ironic that leopard has the feature in safari where any part of a webpage can be turned into a widget :p

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 02:09 PM
SIMPLE QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR THOSE THAT HAVE USED THE LATEST DEVELOPER RELEASES:

How well-performing is Leopard compared with Tiger? I mean, for a desktop like mine, a single G5 with 2.0 GHz and 1Gb of RAM. I wanna know if I should pre-order it or not...

Thanks in advance!


It is faster for me, see my specs, and I have heard it is faster from others with specs comparable to yours. I would highly advise getting at least 1 more stick of ram though, your system will thank you.

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 02:09 PM
from what i see there is nothing in leopard that i need. i do my backups myself, don't need/like spaces). so i will wait with my upgrade for a (long) while.

the only thing that seems to be improved is integration with .mac. i will see if they eventually make .mac into what i want and upgrade then.

i think about web based ical, syncing every setting on you mac so that you have identical desktops (dock, windows, shortcuts, screen saver, stickies, widgets) when you go to your second mac.

Um, isn't that a new feature in Leopard: Syncing System Prefs so that your Mac experience is identical on whatever Mac you work on (that is sync'd, obviously)?

MattJessop
Oct 18, 2007, 02:25 PM
Um, isn't that a new feature in Leopard: Syncing System Prefs so that your Mac experience is identical on whatever Mac you work on (that is sync'd, obviously)?

Yup.

Leopard now supports both Dock syncing (obviously I'm guessing minus applications that arn't installed on the other Mac) and System Preferences are synced as well.

abrooks
Oct 18, 2007, 02:25 PM
I do this daily and get pushed to near rage when I have to stop what I am doing while the volume mounts. I hate seeing that spinning beach ball...and that is the good days. on the days when, say, the NAS device is off or the shared windows volume is not accessible (machine shut down) my entire computer is locked up while the finder looks for the volume indefinitely. I have to force quit finder...that process puts me near blinding rage.

Got a little tip, it won't fix the problem of a missing volume but it does make things easier for me. Set your Mac to start up at a preset time, preferably before you arrive at work or whatever. But also drag the volume you want mounted into the Login Items in the Accounts preference panel.

When your Mac starts up it will automount the volumes ready for when you arrive, very convenient.

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 02:39 PM
It's already in tiger. Just mouse over non-active window and scroll, the contents in the non-active window will scroll.

Not for my MacPro (Dual 2.66 & 4 GB RAM), OS 10.4.10, Might Mouse setup. :confused:

Edit: Finder Windows only = basically useless.

Spades
Oct 18, 2007, 02:41 PM
Leopard in my opinion is not a bold enough vision. Apple needs to figure out that the monitor is the window not the applicaiton container.

You've got to be kidding. Unless they have a very specific good reason for it, such as you mentioned for iPhoto, I consider apps that need the whole screen to be inherently broken. If it needs the whole screen that just means there's too much in the UI. It's only when that's plainly not the case, such as iPhoto's full screen mode giving you the best view of the photo while hiding all controls until needed, that it's OK.

Object-X
Oct 18, 2007, 02:43 PM
Interesting, and I agree that full-screen UIs have their place for certain things. And a lot of it comes down to personal preference.

But I strongly disagree that using only ONE window and app at a time is the future. With today's big screens and powerful computers, workflows that span multiple apps are very practical and useful. What used to take up the whole screen can now fit very nicely on half--with another relevant app beside it ready for drag and drop. And others available in an instant via Exposé--the best thing to happen to multitasking since... forever!

If Microsoft's future is to use only a single app at a time, I won't worry when Apple doesn't follow :)

Full-screen is great SOMETIMES, but all the time? That's a little TOO bold a vision. That's going back to the 70s :)

Perhaps I overstated my point. I agree with what you are saying. It's just that Apple could push the UI in a whole new direction. It wouldn't replace the existing UI, but offer you a different way to interact with it that is superior for many tasks. This would be bold an innovative.

Vista can be configured to almost do this, while OS X can not. But consider what this does for PC venders. HP, for example, has a suite of apps that come with their new iMac knock off -- the Touchsmart PC. The Touchsmart apps work in full-screen mode and are activated by pressing a button on the computer. These apps right now are simplistic and not very useful, but HP could theoretically develop them into a full fledge suite of apps like iLife. You can boot your PC, press that button, and never even see the Vista UI. Add internet apps like Google Docs and a file browser, HP could essentially create an OS inside an OS. In other words, HP could offer their customers a completely unique user experiance even though they are using Windows.

This is what I think will happen with Windows and PC makers. Because Apple's iMac concept is so strong and successful, PC makers will have to start competing with Apple and this is the way they will do it, regardless of what Microsoft is doing or not doing. Browser technology and full-screen viewing can give PC venders a way of creating their own customized UI. Even Google could get into the action.

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 02:52 PM
Dope.

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 02:56 PM
Printable Font Book!!

Object-X
Oct 18, 2007, 02:59 PM
You've got to be kidding. Unless they have a very specific good reason for it, such as you mentioned for iPhoto, I consider apps that need the whole screen to be inherently broken. If it needs the whole screen that just means there's too much in the UI. It's only when that's plainly not the case, such as iPhoto's full screen mode giving you the best view of the photo while hiding all controls until needed, that it's OK.

That really doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you consider an app broken that can take advantage of the whole screen? I think full-screen mode offers many unique advantages over the traditional GUI, epecially with apps like iPhoto. To offer a half-assed crippled full-screen interface like they currently are is what I consider broken.

You have to admit that CoverFlow in iTunes looks wickedly cool. Why can't I click an album cover and have it flip around so I can see the songs? Why can't some on screen controls appear so I can filter my search results or select a play list without having to go back to the GUI UI to do it? Having to jump back and forth is a sign of a broken interface.

My point is if they are just being timid about it. They need to go all the way. Give us another way of interacting with the OS and applications. The window GUI UI paradigm is ancient and needs to be replaced.

Think Different!

Amdahl
Oct 18, 2007, 03:02 PM
Encyclopedia salesman? :P

Seriously, hating Wikipedia is like hating freedom. Why do you hate our freedom, jpine?

That's a strange comment to make, because the same mentality that appreciates the value Apple brings to the marketplace should also recognize that encyclopedias are far and away a better choice than Wikipedia. Wikipedia is Dell/HP/Taiwan, and encyclopedias are Apple.

Each has their place, but it isn't the same place.

Peel
Oct 18, 2007, 03:03 PM
Since Tiger boasted of 200+ New Features, and Leopard lists 300+, can we look forward to 2009, and expect OS X 10.6 to have over 400 new features?

ozontheroad
Oct 18, 2007, 03:16 PM
what the hell is apple thinking?

Japanese-English Dictionary i hope that during installation i will have the option to customize this and remove the japanese side of the dictionary.

i understand that this will be useful to japanese customers and people who can speak japanese. however i highly doubt that the majority of users have a need for this.

why are they bloating the dictionary?:mad:

gwangung
Oct 18, 2007, 03:20 PM
what the hell is apple thinking?

Japanese-English Dictionary i hope that during installation i will have the option to customize this and remove the japanese side of the dictionary.

i understand that this will be useful to japanese customers and people who can speak japanese. however i highly doubt that the majority of users have a need for this.

why are they bloating the dictionary?:mad:

Not a monolingual American by chance?

Quite a few people have to deal with Japanese businesses, based in Japan. Being on the West Coast, Apple thought it might be wise to do this.

twoodcc
Oct 18, 2007, 03:21 PM
Umn does that mean "home on ipod" (http://www.google.at/search?q=home+on+ipod&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=firefox-a) is finally here or am i missing the point :confused:?

wow. now that is just what i wanted! do you have to have server for that?

xUKHCx
Oct 18, 2007, 03:22 PM
wow. now that is just what i wanted! do you have to have server for that?

Basically yes.

The closest thing to that i have seen is this

Portable VoiceOver Preferences
Instantly reconfigure your VoiceOver preferences. Just plug in a flash drive containing your preferences and Leopard instantly reconfigures to work and act just like your Mac — without leaving a trace when you leave.

ozontheroad
Oct 18, 2007, 03:30 PM
Not a monolingual American by chance?

Quite a few people have to deal with Japanese businesses, based in Japan. Being on the West Coast, Apple thought it might be wise to do this.

actually i am fluent in 3 languages and can handle basic stuff in 2 more.

so no.... not monolingual by any stretch.

and no I am not american.

I don't need japanese and doubt that the majority of OS X users have a need for it. As I said... a few obviously do and its also a cool feature for japanese customers.

I don't understand why they need to bloat the dictionary.

you like to stereotype... do you?

jerry1
Oct 18, 2007, 03:33 PM
... i should go about buying my new iMac with Leopard ? Sorry but i'm a tad confused by my first mac buying experience. I'm planning on buying a 24" 2.4GHz iMac but would like to up the RAM and harddrive, if i go into an Apple store on the 27th to buy this - can i have it configured with the extra RAM and memory there and then in the store to take away that day, or do i need to pre-order it or something ? Also if i decided it was easier or faster to buy what i want on-line do i need to wait until the 26th to make sure it's installed with Leopard ?

thanks for any words of wisdom you can offer.

I'll try to help you since nobody else has yet. Take this w/ a grain of salt as I will also be new to Mac very soon. I'm also wondering about what operating system would ship with a Mac if I ordered it on line from Apple before the 26th. BUT, I am fairly certain that Apple stores do not upgrade hard drives. They can upgrade RAM, but to get a bigger hard drive, I'm almost certain you have to order on line. At least that is the case with the Apple stores I have visited.

xUKHCx
Oct 18, 2007, 03:34 PM
you like to stereotype... do you?

i hate people who stereotype

rented mule
Oct 18, 2007, 03:36 PM
I could not agree more. Wikipedia is malware and not a feature,

It's a plugin...it can be removed. In fact, every dictionary within Dictionary is a plugin that can be removed or turned off.

edit: dang...it ISN'T a plugin. Not one that I can find. The normal dictionary plugins are in /Library/Dictionaries but I'm guessing since wikipedia isn't a local dictionary it couldn't get it's own plugin and the functionality had to be hardcoded into Dictionary. Ah well...you can turn it off at least.

ozontheroad
Oct 18, 2007, 03:37 PM
i hate people who stereotype

as do I :)

arkmannj
Oct 18, 2007, 03:39 PM
There's so many features in Leopard I can't wait to use, and that will make my (and my families) life easier.

But I keep hearing conflicting information on how CS3 is running under 10.5, can anyone here shed some light on if Adobe and/or Apple has been able to get this resolved ?

Unfortunately if CS3 isn't running well in Leopard, I will have a leopard box sitting on my shelf for a little while.

morespce54
Oct 18, 2007, 03:40 PM
Perhaps I overstated my point. I agree with what you are saying. It's just that Apple could push the UI in a whole new direction. It wouldn't replace the existing UI, but offer you a different way to interact with it that is superior for many tasks. This would be bold an innovative.

Vista can be configured to almost do this, while OS X can not. But consider what this does for PC venders. HP, for example, has a suite of apps that come with their new iMac knock off -- the Touchsmart PC. The Touchsmart apps work in full-screen mode and are activated by pressing a button on the computer. These apps right now are simplistic and not very useful, but HP could theoretically develop them into a full fledge suite of apps like iLife. You can boot your PC, press that button, and never even see the Vista UI. Add internet apps like Google Docs and a file browser, HP could essentially create an OS inside an OS. In other words, HP could offer their customers a completely unique user experiance even though they are using Windows.

This is what I think will happen with Windows and PC makers. Because Apple's iMac concept is so strong and successful, PC makers will have to start competing with Apple and this is the way they will do it, regardless of what Microsoft is doing or not doing. Browser technology and full-screen viewing can give PC venders a way of creating their own customized UI. Even Google could get into the action.

It's funny because I use Photoshop CS3* (in which you have the option to set the usual full-screen mode, the full-screen mode (with-menu-bar), the maximized-screen mode and the standard-screen mode). Even if I tried hard (and I did!), I just keep coming back to the usual standard-screen mode (ala Mac). And I work a lot in PS... So I guess, as mentioned above, it's really a matter of preferences! :)

But for some apps, it's something to think about!

* I know, CS2 and below versions also give you the option of most of these modes... :)

cgc
Oct 18, 2007, 03:44 PM
I'm interested to see how well (or if) Apple optimized Leopard for mult-core machines. My bet is it's significantly faster than Tiger on multi-core CPUs on average.

morespce54
Oct 18, 2007, 03:45 PM
It's a plugin...it can be removed. In fact, every dictionary within Dictionary is a plugin that can be removed or turned off...

Good to know! But what I'd really like 'tho, is to *add* some more dictionaries (plugins), like the French and Spanish ones that I don't get because my system is set to English... Well, maybe in 10.6...:rolleyes:

SthrnCmfrtr
Oct 18, 2007, 03:53 PM
That's a strange comment to make, because the same mentality that appreciates the value Apple brings to the marketplace should also recognize that encyclopedias are far and away a better choice than Wikipedia. Wikipedia is Dell/HP/Taiwan, and encyclopedias are Apple.

Each has their place, but it isn't the same place.

Oh, come on :p Do people seriously believe that?

Let me explain my mentality to you. I use what works best. I have extremely ecclectic interests, so I find traditional encyclopedias far too limiting.

For instance:
The 2007 Macropædia has 699 in-depth articles, ranging in length from 2 to 310 pages and having references and named contributors. In contrast, the 2007 Micropædia has roughly 65,000 articles, the vast majority (about 97%) of which contain fewer than 750 words, no references, and no named contributors.

In contrast:
The English-language Wikipedia currently contains 2,053,538 articles.
This number excludes redirects, discussion pages, image description pages, user profile pages, templates, help pages, portals, articles without links to other articles, and pages for Wikipedia administration.

So assuming that each Wikipedia article contains no more useful information than the usual Micropædia article, Wikipedia still has 31.2 times as many articles. In my personal experience, the Wikipedia articles I've read have been longer, more comprehensive, more meticulously-sourced (generally), and far more conservative (by which I mean avoiding speculation) than the books I've read for a given subject.

Of course, that doesn't go into accuracy -- but I suggest that useless or incorrect information in many fields is easy to discern. Vandalism almost never is of an intellectually-dishonest sort, but is more often performed by bored teenagers and quickly reverted. While I wouldn't build a nuclear reactor from Wikipedia instructions, I would not build one from Encyclopedia instructions either. As I mentioned above, I believe Wikipedia to be of higher quality than most if not all of the books I've read for a given subject. I don't believe myself to be reading the wrong books, either... even if you considered me personally ignorant or unable to find books, certainly my wife, a librarian with seven years experience working in science libraries would be able to.

Likening Wikipedia to a specific brand of computer would be futile; you could, however, liken it to Project Gutenberg, whereas a customary encyclopedia could be likened to the Great Books of the Western World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Books_of_the_Western_World) (forgive me for linking to Wikipedia -- you have to register to read the article about it on Britannica's website); one has over 20,000 works and is completely free of cost. The other has sixty volumes and costs $1200.

Believing something is better just because it's expensive is utterly retarded.

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 03:58 PM
I'll try to help you since nobody else has yet. Take this w/ a grain of salt as I will also be new to Mac very soon. I'm also wondering about what operating system would ship with a Mac if I ordered it on line from Apple before the 26th. BUT, I am fairly certain that Apple stores do not upgrade hard drives. They can upgrade RAM, but to get a bigger hard drive, I'm almost certain you have to order on line. At least that is the case with the Apple stores I have visited.


I did answer the question earlier and thank you for confirming the hard drive thing...i was only 99.9% sure. And to reiterate, you will almost certainly get a machine with tiger if you order before the 26th. You MAY get leopard after the 26th, and if you don't....you can get Leopard for $9.95 USD + tax. Actually you can still get Leopard for 9.95 if you order before the 26th. There's no sesnse in waiting until the 26th to order because it's a crap shoot as to whether you will get a machine with Leopard and you will just end up waiting another week for nothing.

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 04:00 PM
I'm interested to see how well (or if) Apple optimized Leopard for mult-core machines. My bet is it's significantly faster than Tiger on multi-core CPUs on average.


As I have stated earlier, I have noticed a substantial increase in the performance under Leopard. Applications open and respond faster. Start up times are slightly faster...everything seems, and i hate this word as a descriptor, snappier....and it's not a placebo effect.

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 04:01 PM
There's so many features in Leopard I can't wait to use, and that will make my (and my families) life easier.

But I keep hearing conflicting information on how CS3 is running under 10.5, can anyone here shed some light on if Adobe and/or Apple has been able to get this resolved ?

Unfortunately if CS3 isn't running well in Leopard, I will have a leopard box sitting on my shelf for a little while.

CS3 runs exceptionally well under Leopard.

RacerX
Oct 18, 2007, 04:03 PM
A little factoid: I bought my first Sun workstation right after Sun announced that it was going to make OpenStep the center of its development effort. Sun even bought Lighthouse, one of the leading OpenStep developers with a great suite of NeXTSTEP apps. Then upper management discovered Java and put all their effort behind that and dropped OpenStep.

Good to see Sun made the right choice. :rolleyes:Your factoid seems to run astray when you attempted to discuss motivations... Sun didn't drop OpenStep, NeXT was bought by Apple. Sun's use of the NEXTSTEP environment was part of a partnership with NeXT (designed to help move NeXT users from NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP to Solaris OpenStep on Sun hardware), that partnership ended when NeXT became part of Apple.

The fallacy that most people make when looking back on these events is that NeXT placed any value on NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP... they didn't. NeXT was looking for a way to relieve themselves of supporting an operating system, and Sun wanted something better than CDE or OpenWindows for a user environment. NeXT rolled back interface advances that were going to be included in NEXTSTEP 4.0 (http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/next/software/ns40_screenshots/index.html) because Sun's Solaris OpenStep looked like NEXTSTEP 3.3. NeXT realized that had version 4.x included these advances, users would see a move to Solaris OpenStep as a step backwards.

Those who don't believe me should look into the dates of all this... The first release of Solaris OpenStep was in August of 1996 (Lighthouse was bought in June of 1996), Apple's acquisition of NeXT was announced in December of 1996. The project was dropped after that, with the exception of a few Lighthouse people who put together an unofficial 1.1 release to address a few issues.

If you bought your Sun in the Summer of 1996 because they were going to make OpenStep the center of its development effort, then I'm sure that the news of Apple acquiring NeXT in December of that year couldn't have escaped you. Sun didn't have a choice, NeXT disappeared and Apple had no intension of supplying Sun with any help.

Plymouthbreezer
Oct 18, 2007, 04:06 PM
Just took some time to read through the list on Apple.com.

There's some really awesome stuff here, and I'm highly eager to play around with it on my newly purchased hardware (MacBook Pro).

If I was a bit closer to the Apple Store, I'd take a ride out for the ensuing party! :)

gwangung
Oct 18, 2007, 04:11 PM
actually i am fluent in 3 languages and can handle basic stuff in 2 more.

so no.... not monolingual by any stretch.

and no I am not american.

I don't need japanese and doubt that the majority of OS X users have a need for it.

Given that a major emphasis of Apple for a very, very long time was the Japanese market, I would say your doubts are based more on your personal biases and not on actual needs.

And did you not read the part about the West Coast and their need to work with Japanese businesses?

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 04:12 PM
Anyone know if there is a setting in Leopard's iChat that allows Automatic File Transfers from designated people in your Buddy List?
I would welcome that feature.
As it stands now, in iChat, I have to be present to manually "Accept" any file transfers.

My PC-using friends can set their IM clients to auto allow any files I send them to begin transferring.

And I know there are other Mac-centric IM clients that allow this.
I'm just curious if new iChat does.

Thanks.

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 04:13 PM
"Wirelessly import images from many 802.11-enabled digital cameras and Bluetooth devices."

Anyone know if this includes iPhones?

Plymouthbreezer
Oct 18, 2007, 04:14 PM
"Wirelessly import images from many 802.11-enabled digital cameras and Bluetooth devices."

Anyone know if this includes iPhones?

I'm guessing that would be a resounding "yes!"

Lesser Evets
Oct 18, 2007, 04:15 PM
Does anyone know if you can FLIP the image of a hanging camera in iChat??

As for the rest of these; we'll see. I just can't imagine anything all that great coming through with expectations they conjure. Maybe I will be surprised.

goodcow
Oct 18, 2007, 04:19 PM
Great features! The only missing feature I wish was in there was full NTFS support. This is a biggie as now more and more users are going to use BootCamp with either XP or Vista. Vista doesn't allow you format for FAT32 and XP doesnt always either. So this makes it hard to transfer files back and forth. With NTFS you can only copy files from the NTFS volume, but not write to it. I know that FAT32 is full support.

Microsoft has NTFS patented, so Apple can't really do anything about write support unless Microsoft played nice.

ozontheroad
Oct 18, 2007, 04:19 PM
Given that a major emphasis of Apple for a very, very long time was the Japanese market, I would say your doubts are based more on your personal biases and not on actual needs.

And did you not read the part about the West Coast and their need to work with Japanese businesses?

you need to take a chill pill and get a life buddy.

i did read your post and i find your statement irrelevant.

( are you a bilingual asian ? )

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 04:23 PM
Yah I ordered Leopard today after depositing this....

http://pics.livejournal.com/kellicjtiger/pic/000086zp

Thanks Microsoft for almost buying me Leopard. :D

I'm still not planning on installing it for at least a month after getting it. Yes I'm paranoid but I still think this OS was rushed at the end. We'll see though. If there are no major issues...maybe my external FW800 Drive before I dive into installing it on my MBP. :confused: While overall I'm disappointed on the evolutionary progress of OS X and leopard, there are some key features, both on the surface and under the hood, that makes Leopard a solid purchase.....esp at about $20

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 04:50 PM
Yah I ordered Leopard today after depositing this....

http://pics.livejournal.com/kellicjtiger/pic/000086zp

Thanks Microsoft for almost buying me Leopard. :D

I'm still not planning on installing it for at least a month after getting it. Yes I'm paranoid but I still think this OS was rushed at the end. We'll see though. If there are no major issues...maybe my external FW800 Drive before I dive into installing it on my MBP. :confused: While overall I'm disappointed on the evolutionary progress of OS X and leopard, there are some key features, both on the surface and under the hood, that makes Leopard a solid purchase.....esp at about $20

Ha! That's pretty hilarious... :D

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 04:51 PM
Yah I ordered Leopard today after depositing this....

http://pics.livejournal.com/kellicjtiger/pic/000086zp

Thanks Microsoft for almost buying me Leopard. :D

I'm still not planning on installing it for at least a month after getting it. Yes I'm paranoid but I still think this OS was rushed at the end. We'll see though. If there are no major issues...maybe my external FW800 Drive before I dive into installing it on my MBP. :confused: While overall I'm disappointed on the evolutionary progress of OS X and leopard, there are some key features, both on the surface and under the hood, that makes Leopard a solid purchase.....esp at about $20Post of the day. :D

jpine
Oct 18, 2007, 04:53 PM
Encyclopedia salesman? :P

Seriously, hating Wikipedia is like hating freedom. Why do you hate our freedom, jpine?

Worse than a salesman! University professor. I applaud the freedom that the internet gives many in society. I hate the mediocrity that Wikipedia enables. Sometimes it’s wrong, sometimes it's right to one degree or another. Sometimes it's dead on correct. The problem is that it's often a crapshoot. For my purposes, it provides a launching pad for me to teach critical thinking skills to students.

gwangung
Oct 18, 2007, 04:54 PM
you need to take a chill pill and get a life buddy.

i did read your post and i find your statement irrelevant.

( are you a bilingual asian ? )

Then you're pretty irrelevant yourself. Can't seem to look beyond your needs. A pity.

ozontheroad
Oct 18, 2007, 05:06 PM
Then you're pretty irrelevant yourself. Can't seem to look beyond your needs. A pity.

LOL

get over yourself

LMAO

by the way... end of discussion

ciao

arkmannj
Oct 18, 2007, 05:11 PM
CS3 runs exceptionally well under Leopard.

Swee..good to know, Thanks.

gwangung
Oct 18, 2007, 05:29 PM
LOL

get over yourself

LMAO

by the way... end of discussion

ciao

Dang, guy, you're the one who needs to get over yourself....

And ya can't have a discussion if one side's not willing to listen...

PCMacUser
Oct 18, 2007, 05:55 PM
Maybe I'm being swept along on the hype, but in recent weeks I've been wondering why any home user would want to use anything other than a Mac once Leopard is introduced. They're so far ahead of Windows Vista in every single respect.

I totally disagree. In what way is Leopard so far ahead of Vista?

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 06:03 PM
I totally disagree. In what way is Leopard so far ahead of Vista?

Ditto. I use Vista on my desktop at home. With the last couple performance and compatability updates Vista has been running perfectly fine. Both OS's are good. What Leopard has is a mature, for the most part, core and a bunch of nifty features that aid in productivity.
Vista has massive compatibility with a huge application library that spans Windows history (I've run DOS applications successfully in Vista with the correct tweaks.) Along with better power management, IMHO, then OS X. (Standby is WAY faster then in Tiger.)

lazyrighteye
Oct 18, 2007, 06:12 PM
I totally disagree. In what way is Leopard so far ahead of Vista?

The fact Leopard runs Vista is pretty distinguishing, to me.

mdriftmeyer
Oct 18, 2007, 06:34 PM
LOVE getting printer drivers via SWU. It's such a hassle sometimes through the manufacturers' sites. Hopefully Apple has it down.


Since Apple now owns CUPS and has vowed to keep it's foundation GPL it's clear Apple values the FOSS community. It will then separate itself on the abstractions by expanding the Print Functionality for the 3rd party devs.

Software Update for Printing is one example.

dmon
Oct 18, 2007, 06:51 PM
Good...I don't think I ever want to see another Java app on Mac. If we can get the Java developers to stay away from Mac, it's an OS X feature that gets my blessing. :D

You really don't have any clue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects

mdriftmeyer
Oct 18, 2007, 07:10 PM
Where's "Resolution Independence" ???

What else does Leopard not have that it was supposed to have???

Where are those RI LCD/CRT Displays?

It isn't vaporware. The Hardware to match the software isn't in the general consumer hands.

macboy215
Oct 18, 2007, 07:16 PM
i have pre ordered my copy.. cant wait to get it :D:D

btw what do you guys think about this guy and his post here:

Apple to release Vista soon - Who's the copycat now? (http://microsoftwow.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!28962096F48747EA!807.entry)
from www.microsoftwow.net

honestly these windows fanboys cant get over the fact that Mac are just too cool... but its a interesting post nevertheless...

mdriftmeyer
Oct 18, 2007, 07:17 PM
You really don't have any clue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects

No he does't. He also doesn't keep up with Java Development.

I'm looking forward the Java 6 changes from SUN:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/10/18/sun-rework_1.html?source=NLC-APPDEV&cgd=2007-10-18

Applets running on their own separate threads. This will be a big change for Rich Clients via the Web. Bloat will be removed from the Browser. The threading model won't deal with the thread model of the Browser. The plugin architecture of WebKit will work just fine for it.

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 07:17 PM
I totally disagree. In what way is Leopard so far ahead of Vista?

Maybe its because Vista flat out blows! I work on PCs all day long and its a terrible OS. I know lots of other PC techs and regular home users who absolutely hate Vista. Its bloatware to the max. Everything is changed around from everything they've done in the past 15 years which just confuses the hell out of people, not to mention hard to troubleshoot for techs. Hardware and software compatibly issues. It brings a new system down to its knees. For 5 years worth of work, they could have done a lot better. Christ 80% of the features were dropped because they couldn't get them working. They need to stop trying to support 15 yr old software. Make people upgrade to newer versions. It will kill them in the end. Maybe in the year 2020 we'll see the next version of Vista or whatever its going to be called. Leopard 2.0 maybe?

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 07:21 PM
The fact Leopard runs Vista is pretty distinguishing, to me.

Leopard doesn't "Run" Vista any more then Windows can "run" Linux or a hacked version of OS X. Dual booting is nothing special contrary to what Apple would have you think. Windows has been doing that crap for over a decade and *nix? Forever.

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 07:22 PM
i have pre ordered my copy.. cant wait to get it :D:D

btw what do you guys think about this guy and his post here:

Apple to release Vista soon - Who's the copycat now? (http://microsoftwow.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!28962096F48747EA!807.entry)
from www.microsoftwow.net

honestly these windows fanboys cant get over the fact that Mac are just too cool... but its a interesting post nevertheless...


People can think and say what they want. It really is kind of weird how all of a sudden since Mac OS X has this amazing new feature, it just so happens that Vista will have the same features that run half-ass compared to the OS X version. However, certain features are going to be copied from each other because they become a necessity. It also the way this world works. Its always monkey see, monkey do for everything, not just operating systems and computers. If a car manufacturer sees something from another that really makes a car sell, its going to figure out how to get that implemented in some way, shape, or form.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 07:22 PM
Leopard doesn't "Run" Vista any more then Windows can "run" Linux or a hacked version of OS X. Dual booting is nothing special contrary to what Apple would have you think. Windows has been doing that crap for over a decade and *nix? Forever.

No OS has virtualisation solutions close to those on OSX...

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 07:24 PM
Leopard doesn't "Run" Vista any more then Windows can "run" Linux or a hacked version of OS X. Dual booting is nothing special contrary to what Apple would have you think. Windows has been doing that crap for over a decade and *nix? Forever.

I think he was referring to that fact that a lot of features and looks came from OS X. iCal and Windows Calendar is a perfect example. The two look and act nearly identical.

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 07:29 PM
Maybe its because Vista flat out blows! I work on PCs all day long and its a terrible OS. I know lots of other PC techs and regular home users who absolutely hate Vista. Its bloatware to the max. Everything is changed around from everything they've done in the past 15 years which just confuses the hell out of people, not to mention hard to troubleshoot for techs. Hardware and software compatibly issues. It brings a new system down to its knees. For 5 years worth of work, they could have done a lot better. Christ 80% of the features were dropped because they couldn't get them working. They need to stop trying to support 15 yr old software. Make people upgrade to newer versions. It will kill them in the end. Maybe in the year 2020 we'll see the next version of Vista or whatever its going to be called. Leopard 2.0 maybe?


You mean like the transition from OS 9 to OS 10? :rolleyes: I'm sorry but one can't bitch about pushing a UI forward.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 07:33 PM
You mean like the transition from OS 9 to OS 10? :rolleyes: I'm sorry but one can't bitch about pushing a UI forward.

Thats the thing...a lot of Vista's new features are just useless, unlike those introduced in the OS9->X switch...Flip3D?!?!

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 07:35 PM
No OS has virtualisation solutions close to those on OSX...

OS X has NO virtualization tech in it as is. If you are talking Parallels or VMWare, ummm heh. Windows can do that as well and in some cases better then OS X. Virtual PC from MS and VMWare's solutions run full hardware acceleration and has been able to do that for some time oh and its free on Windows. http://www.vmware.com/download/player/ \ http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

Thats the thing...a lot of Vista's new features are just useless, unlike those introduced in the OS9->X switch...Flip3D?!?!

Yah and like having a date on iCal? Or Calculations in Spotlight? Etc Etc. Every OS has its useful and pointless features. Remind me again just how long after 10.0 came out when Expose was released? We'll ignore the fact that 10.0 was so bug ridden they had to release 10.1 for free. I've said this again and again. Vista is MS's OS 10.0. And its a hell of a lot better out of the box then 10.0 was. Apple has nothing to crow about. 10.5 is 7 years of refinement. Yes MS is playing catch up but for an OS that is less then a year out of release they have made pretty damn good progress and the simple fact is that it wasn't until 2 years after the release of 10.0 when Apple really started pushing new features. It took them that long to clean up their mess.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 07:38 PM
OS X has NO virtualization tech in it as is. If you are talking Parallels or VMWare, ummm heh. Windows can do that as well and in some cases better then OS X. Virtual PC from MS and VMWare's solutions run full hardware acceleration and has been able to do that for some time oh and its free on Windows. http://www.vmware.com/download/player/ \ http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

What I mean is that on my Macbook, I can run any software I want made for any OS (as long as my hardware is up-to-scratch)...this just isn't possible on a Windows PC...

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 07:40 PM
You mean like the transition from OS 9 to OS 10? :rolleyes: I'm sorry but one can't bitch about pushing a UI forward.

Well eventually M$ will hit a wall because they keep using old crappy technology that doesn't work very well with today's OS's. They'll eventually need to do this or else they'll be screwed someday. Maybe not in the next OS release, or the one after that, but eventually its got to happen.

Yes, it won't be like the transition to OS X because there are tons of users to convert unlike us Mac users. So it is easier said than done, but it will still need to be done eventually. If they're going to take 5yrs to make an OS, they could develop a totally new OS with a totally new foundation, give it a compatibility layer to make the transition smoother and build from that and then drop it once the transition is totally complete. Develop an OS platform for the future like Apple did with OS X. They could also keep developers, large corporations, etc up to date at all times, making sure drivers, software titles, speciality software, etc all work with the new OS. Use the 5yrs to make a new great OS and to get software developers and major corporations prepared. Do a gradual transition, not all at once. Do something like a 5yr plan, each year implementing this technology or this year were going to drop this and replace it with this.

I really want Microsoft to make a great OS. I really do. It keeps Apple and other OS developers (Linux) going strong with new ideas and technologies. But, Vista isn't it. I'm sorry, you can say what you want, but its just not all that great. Yes, its more secure and kudos to them for doing that, but they can do better with the time they had.

Project
Oct 18, 2007, 07:42 PM
Hmm. Quite surprised at the Wikipedia negativity. It is IMO the most awesome resource on the planet and a monumental achievement that will go down in history. Is it the best for everything? Nope. Are there errors in there? Yes, lots. But for what it is and the depth of content, its an amazing resource.


As for the Leopard/Vista comparisons, I honestly think OSX is starting to pull away.... take a good long look at the list of 300+ features. Lots of them are useless to me or quite cheap ways of adding a checkbox. But there are so many good things in there. Leopard is shaping up to be a wonderful piece of refinement on what is already a leading consumer OS. Things like the web history search, Spaces/Expose, Screen sharing, PDF annotations, instant alpha, Quick Look etc all add up to big time savings and productivity enhancements both via tools available to the user and window/application management itself.

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 07:45 PM
You do realize that Vista is based on Server 2003 which was a rewrite of Windows NT kernel from the ground up. Which is why at least 80% of the vulnerabilities in NT, 2K, XP don't apply to 2003 right? Right? Bueller? Bueller?

Well eventually M$

You just lost any credibility. Done.

What I mean is that on my Macbook, I can run any software I want made for any OS (as long as my hardware is up-to-scratch)...this just isn't possible on a Windows PC...


That's a policy decision. Not a technological one. OS X could EASILY run on any PC if apple would allow it. You can NOT fault Microsoft for a decision, right or wrong, made by Apple.

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 07:51 PM
You do realize that Vista is based on Server 2003 which was a rewrite of Windows NT kernel from the ground up. Which is why at least 80% of the vulnerabilities in NT, 2K, XP don't apply to 2003 right? Right? Bueller? Bueller?



You just lost any credibility. Done.

Why because I outsmarted you? PC fanboy!!!

Bottom line...Vista sucks! Plain and simple! If Vista is Microsoft's next gen OS to build off from, they're in big trouble! The Winblows NT kernel doesn't cut it! Maybe sometime in the next 50 yrs they'll figure out how to make WinFS work and they'll have something great to talk about.

Diatribe
Oct 18, 2007, 07:54 PM
Thats a bit harsh...I just resort to making snide comments...

Why? After all it is your time that they expect you to give, so I just expect them to buy a Mac. Easy as that and it got me 4 switchers.

SthrnCmfrtr
Oct 18, 2007, 07:58 PM
Worse than a salesman! University professor. I applaud the freedom that the internet gives many in society. I hate the mediocrity that Wikipedia enables. Sometimes it’s wrong, sometimes it's right to one degree or another. Sometimes it's dead on correct. The problem is that it's often a crapshoot. For my purposes, it provides a launching pad for me to teach critical thinking skills to students.

Critical thinking? In a university? I can't think of a single college class I've been in (and I have over 300 credit hours) that has encouraged critical thinking or even tolerated it. I would love to take your class. What do you teach?

My favorite experience in this area was a district-mandated essay in the ninth grade where we were supposed to use our critical thinking skills and evaluate some dingbat thing or another. I asked my teacher why we had to write on this specific, uninteresting topic, and she said "because Gallup-McKinley County Schools says so."

I'll take mild risks of inaccuracy over thought-terminating clichés anyday :)

Diatribe
Oct 18, 2007, 08:38 PM
(Standby is WAY faster then in Tiger.)

That might be because standby in OS X isn't actually standby but hibernate. ;)

And a little bit less polemics and a bit more facts would actually do the thread good, that goes for a lot of people here. :p

dlastmango
Oct 18, 2007, 09:11 PM
Hey. for us to get Leopard on the 26th...What date would it have to ship out by? I dont see apple using next day air or even 2 day...standard ground CA to FL i think is 5 days... but where does a new OS ship from???

PCMacUser
Oct 18, 2007, 09:21 PM
Why because I outsmarted you? PC fanboy!!!

Bottom line...Vista sucks! Plain and simple! If Vista is Microsoft's next gen OS to build off from, they're in big trouble! The Winblows NT kernel doesn't cut it! Maybe sometime in the next 50 yrs they'll figure out how to make WinFS work and they'll have something great to talk about.

Oh my goodness. You really don't have a clue, do you? At first I thought you were joking, but now I think you actually meant it... :o

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 09:48 PM
Hey. for us to get Leopard on the 26th...What date would it have to ship out by? I dont see apple using next day air or even 2 day...standard ground CA to FL i think is 5 days... but where does a new OS ship from???

I ordered from Apple same day it was available for pre-order. My shipping has been upgraded from standard ground, to standard overnight. If you pre-order you will most likely see it on your doorstep Oct 26th. For different reasons, there's always a few people who have to wait until Monday.

mklos
Oct 18, 2007, 09:50 PM
Oh my goodness. You really don't have a clue, do you? At first I thought you were joking, but now I think you actually meant it... :o

Yeah, I don't have a clue! I just work on the dark side everyday with other people who also have no clue. :rolleyes:

P.S. What makes you think that you have a clue? I'm done with both you and Silicon...we'll let you both sit on your own stupidity!

PCMacUser
Oct 18, 2007, 10:55 PM
Yeah, I don't have a clue! I just work on the dark side everyday with other people who also have no clue. :rolleyes:

P.S. What makes you think that you have a clue? I'm done with both you and Silicon...we'll let you both sit on your own stupidity!
Let me help you understand.

I like using OS X. But I also like using Vista and XP.

"How can this be so? M$ Windoze suxes!!111", you might say.

Well, my friend, I use both every day professionally and at home, and try to harness the strengths of each. And yes, they both have strengths and weaknesses. It's all about keeping a balanced perspective... going all 'one eyed' for a particular platform helps noone.

SiliconAddict
Oct 18, 2007, 11:29 PM
Why because I outsmarted you? PC fanboy!!!

Bottom line...Vista sucks! Plain and simple! If Vista is Microsoft's next gen OS to build off from, they're in big trouble! The Winblows NT kernel doesn't cut it! Maybe sometime in the next 50 yrs they'll figure out how to make WinFS work and they'll have something great to talk about.

Kinda hard to be a fanboi when I'm typing on a Mac. :rolleyes: You see I have this ability to like both platforms. I know its a stretch for anyone so smitten with a platform that they can't even spell their competition's name correctly, but try and grasp this concept. I like both OS X and Windows for various reasons. I hate both OS X and Windows, again, for various reasons. Like it or not Windows is a solid platform when configured correctly. That is the key. It has to be configured correctly. It needs software to complete it. It takes work. Apple out of the box is more secure. More complete. And simply is ready for the non-tech savvy user. But guess what. There are people who are tech savvy. And there are people who have had very few problems with Windows. My 2003 home server has literally been up for over a year now. ZERO down time. You can remain the consummate fanboi. Guess what that accomplishes? It makes money for Apple. A company. That is all. You aren't an Apple fanboi. You are a corporate fanboi. Apple neither cares about you or your blind love for their products. They simply care about your money. Period. Tell em would you have such blind loyalty towards Nike? Nintendo? Coke? All are nothing more then corporations, EXACTLY like Apple at the end of the day.
Might I ask how old are you? Seriously. Your behavior, language, and lack of any credible response makes me think high school at best..... I mean what next? are you going to pull out the...because I said so argument? :rolleyes: Whatever. Its like arguing with lint. I probably would have an easier time.


Hey. for us to get Leopard on the 26th...What date would it have to ship out by? I dont see apple using next day air or even 2 day...standard ground CA to FL i think is 5 days... but where does a new OS ship from???


Most likely Apple will have orders placed on hold in areas around the US. Central shipping nodes. Fedex\DHL\UPS allow for this on large orders. So what will likely happen is that orders will go out the day before possibly a state or two away from your location and you will receive it the 26th. That being said there are going to be disappointed people. I can guarantee you right now that there will be people in areas where it can't be delivered on the 26th.

dlastmango
Oct 18, 2007, 11:33 PM
Ahhhhh... These are the days of our lives....

Community Forums are great!

(not picking sides here... Just enjoying the conversation) :)

pheonixash
Oct 18, 2007, 11:45 PM
i have pre ordered my copy.. cant wait to get it :D:D

btw what do you guys think about this guy and his post here:

Apple to release Vista soon - Who's the copycat now? (http://microsoftwow.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!28962096F48747EA!807.entry)
from www.microsoftwow.net

honestly these windows fanboys cant get over the fact that Mac are just too cool... but its a interesting post nevertheless...

Haha that guy doesn't have a clue, he calls Spotlight Apple's version of Windows Search. Don't think he's ever used Mac OS X before.

indie1982
Oct 19, 2007, 09:46 AM
It wouldn't, not yet anyhows: what good is it if none of our computers have any built-in drives for the discs themselves?

Becuase I rip all my HD-DVDs to my RAID arrary using an XBox 360 HD-DVD drive and I want a way to watch them (and the rest of my media) via FrontRow!

diamond.g
Oct 19, 2007, 09:59 AM
Becuase I rip all my HD-DVDs to my RAID arrary using an XBox 360 HD-DVD drive and I want a way to watch them (and the rest of my media) via FrontRow!

Wait DVD Player doesn't support HDM yet?

Lesser Evets
Oct 19, 2007, 10:34 AM
Community Forums are great!

(not picking sides here... Just enjoying the conversation) :)

I read them too... when I need to get to sleep.

lssmit02
Oct 19, 2007, 11:51 AM
Hey that's pretty cool, thanks for the tip.

yeah, ditto!

50548
Oct 19, 2007, 04:26 PM
Why because I outsmarted you? PC fanboy!!!

Bottom line...Vista sucks! Plain and simple! If Vista is Microsoft's next gen OS to build off from, they're in big trouble! The Winblows NT kernel doesn't cut it! Maybe sometime in the next 50 yrs they'll figure out how to make WinFS work and they'll have something great to talk about.

Ditto...just ask my brother-in-law who is a traditional PC user...he bought a new PC and said clearly...Vista SUCKS big time, in terms of compatibility, slow performance and bloatware...OS X can't be even compared to it...it's light-years ahead...only the PC fanboys still poisoning this forum could think otherwise.

PC fanboys, GO HOME. Vista SUCKS! WINDOWS SUCKS! :rolleyes:

spydr
Oct 19, 2007, 08:18 PM
Wowzy!! I can see myself using most of these less known features! I think these will in the long run be more useful than the 'major' new features (barring Time Machine)

PS: I hope the Wiki+dictionary can be called on highlighted words with "Command+CTRL+D", like dictionary is now.

Rom Rim
Oct 19, 2007, 10:28 PM
Even basic text editors should be compliant in these filetypes too :D
No. That's why they're called text editors. If they weren't text editors they'd be word processors. Plain. Text. Doesn't. Have. Formatting.

Period.

Rom Rim
Oct 19, 2007, 10:30 PM
Grammar check FTW!
Ja zehr gut ob du bist Amerikaner. Otherwise you're screwed. Microsoft's grammar checker turned out to be a bomb. Nothing like proper schooling, you know. Or do you.

Rom Rim
Oct 19, 2007, 10:36 PM
If there is any justice in the world, then Apple should really significantly eat into MS's home marketshare over the next year or two.
It takes more than justice. HP lead OEM sales with how many tens of thousands of outlets worldwide? With Dell right behind? You want to eat into Microsoft's home market share you have to compete on the same grounds. Microsoft sell an operating system - it's a crappy one but it's not hardware. It's an operating system. That can go on any OEM Wintel box.

Apple can't match that. Recent surveys show Apple with an 8.1% share in the US but still at 3% worldwide - and this after Steve Jobs has now been CEO, interim or otherwise, for over ten years. Market growth? If he promised the board any market growth he's in trouble. With his sales model he's had zip market growth.

He's selling iPods and iThis and iThat and together they account for more than half the revenues so the board are relatively happy. But when he makes fun of Zune because it's only got a 2% market share and on the computer side he's only got 3%...

You want justice? Pack a dictionary and take the red eye to Cupertino and recite for the boss.

jackc
Oct 19, 2007, 10:45 PM
I just saw this on the Amazon.com page, sounds pretty cool:

Dashcode. Widgets without the wait.
Ever wish you could make your very own Dashboard widget? A handy RSS feed of your favorite blog, maybe. Or a miniature photocast of your iPhoto library. Something uniquely useful, uniquely you. Say hello to Dashcode. Now you can get a widget up and running in minutes, even if you've never written a line of code in your life.

psychofreak
Oct 19, 2007, 10:47 PM
I just saw this on the Amazon.com page, sounds pretty cool:

Dashcode. Widgets without the wait.
Ever wish you could make your very own Dashboard widget? A handy RSS feed of your favorite blog, maybe. Or a miniature photocast of your iPhoto library. Something uniquely useful, uniquely you. Say hello to Dashcode. Now you can get a widget up and running in minutes, even if you've never written a line of code in your life.

Sign up for a free developer membership and you can get it here (http://developer.apple.com/tools/dashcode/) free :)

contoursvt
Oct 20, 2007, 09:53 PM
I just want to say that properly set up, both OS's will be rock solid. NT based machines as well as OSX. There is absoutely nothing wrong with the NT kernel when it comes to stability.

Our 2003 exchange mail server which as someone else said, is the base for Vista, has been up and running for over 640 days. No crashes, no reboots...etc. Its serving mail and hosting some collaboration functions for a company of 120 users. Check the idle time in number of hours...

The box its running on is a Compaq DL380 dual xeon box with 3GB RAM.

http://powerthings.com/pics/uptime.jpg

psychofreak
Oct 20, 2007, 09:58 PM
I just want to say that on either sides, properly set up, both OS's will be rock solid.Thats just it, it takes an experienced user to keep Windows solid...

contoursvt
Oct 20, 2007, 10:35 PM
Well I dont really think so. My father knows nothing about computers but he's had his AMD XP 2500 computer for over 3 years now with XP on there and I have not had to rebuild it or do anything. Granted I did the setup of the computer so I made sure it was patched properly and I installed AVG antivirus for him and all, but I dont do any kind of maintenance or anything. He's pretty much used it the way I gave it to him. The most he's installed is Google Earth, Picasa, Google Tool bar (he likes searching with that), real player (yuck) and thats about it.

The root of all problems on the PC side IMO are users installing P2P applications. By installing them, who knows what back door and security flaws they are introducing. Windows is very VERY in my experience if users dont install software that comprimise the security.


Thats just it, it takes an experienced user to keep Windows solid...

Quillz
Oct 21, 2007, 01:04 AM
Thats just it, it takes an experienced user to keep Windows solid...
It also takes an experienced user to keep OS X and Linux solid. What's your point?

Why because I outsmarted you? PC fanboy!!!

Bottom line...Vista sucks! Plain and simple! If Vista is Microsoft's next gen OS to build off from, they're in big trouble! The Winblows NT kernel doesn't cut it! Maybe sometime in the next 50 yrs they'll figure out how to make WinFS work and they'll have something great to talk about.
Since you're such an expert, I'm assuming you have plenty of valid evidence why the NT kernel doesn't cut it? And since when have opinions become facts? And I really find it funny that anyone who disagrees with you, an Apple fanboy, is a "PC fanboy."

And of course being an Apple fanboy it's typical that you've done no research on WinFS whatsoever. If you did, you'd have known that WinFS was never intended to replace NTFS, and rather is a series of technologies that run on top of it. Some technologies from WinFS are already in Vista.

Ditto...just ask my brother-in-law who is a traditional PC user...he bought a new PC and said clearly...Vista SUCKS big time, in terms of compatibility, slow performance and bloatware...OS X can't be even compared to it...it's light-years ahead...only the PC fanboys still poisoning this forum could think otherwise.

PC fanboys, GO HOME. Vista SUCKS! WINDOWS SUCKS! :rolleyes:
You seem to forget that perhaps the biggest reason OS X "just works" is because of Apple's stance against third parties. Unlike Windows, Apple does a wonderful job of locking down their hardware and software. Strange, this very same argument is used all the time against Microsoft, who makes no computer hardware, other than a few keyboard and mice. Now how's the evil one?

Mikebike125
Oct 21, 2007, 07:01 AM
You can already scroll a background (inactive) window in Tiger (10.4):

1) Hold down the Apple/Cmd key
2) Drag the scroll bar in an inactive window in the background

You can also drag windows around in the background using the same method. The one thing you can't do is use the scroll wheel though.
I couldn't get that to work. Are you talking about say two open FireFox windows? That was the program I tried it on and it didn't work.....

slackpacker
Oct 21, 2007, 07:48 AM
Yah I ordered Leopard today after depositing this....

http://pics.livejournal.com/kellicjtiger/pic/000086zp

Thanks Microsoft for almost buying me Leopard. :D

I'm still not planning on installing it for at least a month after getting it. Yes I'm paranoid but I still think this OS was rushed at the end. We'll see though. If there are no major issues...maybe my external FW800 Drive before I dive into installing it on my MBP. :confused: While overall I'm disappointed on the evolutionary progress of OS X and leopard, there are some key features, both on the surface and under the hood, that makes Leopard a solid purchase.....esp at about $20

How do I get my Check?:confused:

apachie2k
Oct 21, 2007, 07:58 AM
I couldn't get that to work. Are you talking about say two open FireFox windows? That was the program I tried it on and it didn't work.....

it works for me but it's the second window, if i hold command then press the second window it will bring that window forward, however if you are still holding command and click on another window it will work...

juxtaposer
Oct 21, 2007, 08:07 AM
You seem to forget that perhaps the biggest reason OS X "just works" is because of Apple's stance against third parties. Unlike Windows, Apple does a wonderful job of locking down their hardware and software. Strange, this very same argument is used all the time against Microsoft, who makes no computer hardware, other than a few keyboard and mice. Now how's the evil one?

I have always believed that a lot of Apple's success is due to their insistence on building their own hardware and OS. It is this key mixture that makes Mac OS 'just work'. I don't want to install numerous drivers and run installation disc's when I buy a product. And now that I own a Mac, I am spared these minutes (which slowly mount up to hours and weeks) so that I can enjoy doing what it is that I want to do.
After installing Vista on a PC for an old friend of mine, I have spent the last few days getting used to the new Microsoft OS, and while it is an improvement, it is still the same old Windows. Applications still freeze unexpectedly, and I am very worried that my friend (who needs the machine for basic audio editing) could lose a LOT of valuable data if he does not back up every ten minutes or so. All in all, Vista is not a horrible OS. I just believe that if Microsoft were to begin building their own line of PC's, then maybe, just maybe, Windows could be a great and far more stable OS.
I am looking forward to using Leopard, with Quick Look and Spaces being my favourite new additions. But most of all, I know it will be almost entirely the same OS that I am familiar with. And that, bundled with the added improvements make Leopard a definite purchase for me.
Juxtaposer :apple:

contoursvt
Oct 21, 2007, 11:29 AM
So far I've built 20+ vista machines and all have been rock solid. I am willing to bet that if you run a memory test on your friends computer, you will end up with errors. 99.9% of instability is due to faulty memory IMO. You can download and burn the ISO then reboot with the disc in and let the test run for at least 2-3 passes. I leave all my machines overnight to ensure no bad mem...
http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

I've had OSX kernel pannic and do the spinning beachball for no reason and it would be easy to base my opinion of OSX on that and say it was unstable but I took the time to test the memory in the machine and indeed one faulty stick.

...After installing Vista on a PC for an old friend of mine, I have spent the last few days getting used to the new Microsoft OS, and while it is an improvement, it is still the same old Windows. Applications still freeze unexpectedly, and I am very worried that my friend (who needs the machine for basic audio editing) could lose a LOT of valuable data if he does not back up every ten minutes or so. All in all, Vista is not a horrible OS. I just believe that if Microsoft were to begin building their own line of PC's, then maybe, just maybe, Windows could be a great and far more stable OS....Juxtaposer :apple:

juxtaposer
Oct 21, 2007, 01:52 PM
So far I've built 20+ vista machines and all have been rock solid. I am willing to bet that if you run a memory test on your friends computer, you will end up with errors. 99.9% of instability is due to faulty memory IMO. You can download and burn the ISO then reboot with the disc in and let the test run for at least 2-3 passes. I leave all my machines overnight to ensure no bad mem...
http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

I've had OSX kernel pannic and do the spinning beachball for no reason and it would be easy to base my opinion of OSX on that and say it was unstable but I took the time to test the memory in the machine and indeed one faulty stick.
Will definitely check that out, thanks for the link. :) The fact is that my friend is so used to Windows that he just has to have Vista on his main machine. My personal preference is OS X because of the creative (audio editing) software that is available for it. Most of them are a lot easier to use for someone as simple as me. I couldn't be happier with my Mac, and with the new additions, it just makes it even easier to get to grips with. As we know, Windows and OS X both have their downsides, but from what I've seen so far Mas OS's upsides far outweigh that of Windows for what I want to use it for. Time Machine can't come fast enough, because it turns out that as I was cleaning up some space, I deleted a Logic session that I was working on. Bah!
Juxtaposer :apple:

aussie_geek
Oct 21, 2007, 03:03 PM
I am really impressed by the Back to my Mac and the iChat screen sharing.

I have lost count the number of times I have forgotten stuff on my home mac that should have been taken to work .

I have some mates that ring me on the weekend about their Mac dilemmas so the iChat screen sharing is going to be really helpful. I can finally control their Mac and talk to them at the same time about what I am doing for them instead of being on the end of a phone or video conference.

Stacks are impressive as well. Being able to see your downloads folder without opening it will be great and having the latest item you have downloaded to be at the top of the stack is useful.

Mail with its built in notes and to-do's will finally make my ever growing pile of post it notes disappear.

Can't wait - have pre-ordered it for Friday. Apparently the courier comes at about 9 - 10 am here in Australia. :D:D:D


aussie_geek

bazzz
Oct 23, 2007, 06:03 PM
Good...I don't think I ever want to see another Java app on Mac. If we can get the Java developers to stay away from Mac, it's an OS X feature that gets my blessing. :D

People like you have absolutely no idea that

a.) Java is these days by far the most used language in commercial environments (Obj-C is an OS X niche, not more, I'm currently part of a > 70 developers project in telco which is 100% Java),
b.) Java is mainly used these days for non-desktop applications and
c.) tens of thousands of developers worldwide will leave the mac (Apple has been a trend lately with developers) if Apple kills Java on OSX.

This really sucks. That was the only feature I was really waiting for in Leopard.

scottishwildcat
Oct 24, 2007, 05:26 AM
I like the Dictionary application as it is. Wikipedia will only poison it.

Quite agree. And given that Dictionary is, well, a dictionary app, why wikipedia.org rather than wiktionary.org?!