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MacRumors
Oct 18, 2007, 10:16 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/18/apple_to_fire_up_penryn_based_mac_pros.html) that Apple is about to unleash Penryn-based Mac Pros as soon as Intel can provide the new chips to Apple.
They'll also be amongst the first machines from any PC manufacturer to employ chips from Intel's upcoming Penryn family of 45-nanometer (nm) microprocessors -- specifically the upcoming Hi-k Xeons, which will be available in dual- and quad-core variants for workstations with front-side bus speeds of either 1333MHz or 1600MHz.

This article corroborates an Inquirer report (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/05/apple-buying-up-high-end-penryn-processors/) which claimed that Apple was buying up high end (3.2GHz) Penryn processors this year, leaving little supply for other PC manufacturers.

AppleInsider believes that the new Mac Pro will top with an 8-core model utilizing two of these new 3.2GHz "Harpertown" 45-nm quad-core Xeons which offer a faster 1600MHz bus and 12MB of L2 cache. The new processor could offer up to 45% speed increases over existing Mac Pro processors for bandwidth-intensive applications.

The fate of the remainder of the Mac Pro line remains less certain, but Apple appears to have the option of a number of dual-core Penryn ("Wolfdale") processors that could find their way into the lower-end Mac Pros.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/penryn-based-mac-pros-soon/)



TheSpecialist
Oct 18, 2007, 10:17 AM
FINALLY!!!! Good news there is finally an update coming.

CalfCanuck
Oct 18, 2007, 10:19 AM
Excellent - I'm ordering one as soon as it is launched. Along with the list of other MR folks in another thread.

We really need to update the ancient MP line!

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:19 AM
I will order one as soon as they are made available. I just hope that it stops becoming a rumor and becomes a fact.

And I would love to see the base price of the MP to come down to $2000, for those that can't save the money and instead whine about how Apple needs to cater to them.

rediffusion
Oct 18, 2007, 10:20 AM
Any idea when this will happen?

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 10:21 AM
Finally was already taken. ;) I beat Arn by 4 minutes (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4347768&postcount=1438). :pAny idea when this will happen?Announce next week. Ship November 12.

longofest
Oct 18, 2007, 10:23 AM
They should definitely still offer affordable (relatively speaking) 4-core options. Not everyone shopping for a Mac Pro needs the top of the line 8 core machine, but it would be nice if they dropped the entry barrier a bit.

cwc123188
Oct 18, 2007, 10:24 AM
Novemeber, Please! (or Earlier Would Be Fine Too!)

gugy
Oct 18, 2007, 10:26 AM
I hope it comes soon.

It is time to upgrade my Quad G5. I need to sell it while has Applecare and still a great machine. Do it Apple, Do it!:D

puckhead193
Oct 18, 2007, 10:27 AM
if these speeds are correct, my god. Those are some fast machines for browsing MR i mean doing 3-d rendering ;)

SirOmega
Oct 18, 2007, 10:31 AM
In terms of what will happen to the rest of the MacPro line, if you look at the expected prices of the dual and quad core parts, there is no good reason for Apple to use any of the dual core parts.

Intel is pricing their quad core Xeons extremely agressively. Compared to the current dual core Xeons being used in the Mac Pro, similarly priced quad core Penryn Xeons are as follows...

$316: Current 2.0Ghz DC -> 2.5Ghz QC Penryn
$744: Current 2.66Ghz DC -> 2.8Ghz QC Penryn
$1172: Current 3GHz DC -> 3.2Ghz QC Penryn

You can see why above that I think Apple will go all quad core for the next revision of the Mac Pro lineup.

The only reason i could think of for Apple to not go all quad core would be to purposefully segment (and IMO, hobble) their lineup, to really extract a premium for those who want quad core.

Edit: for price info, check out this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4057329&postcount=613) and remember that post only has prices and info for the 133MHz FSB Penryn Xeons - the 3.2Ghz and 2.8GHz chips are likely to be 1600MHz FSB parts.

4God
Oct 18, 2007, 10:31 AM
So what would the line-up look like?
Base: 2.4 8 Core
Middle: 2.8 8 core
Top: 3.0 or 3.2 8 core

Maybe?

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 10:33 AM
There better be an announcement NEXT WEEK! Come on Apple! DO NOT WAIT UNTIL 2008 for these!

krye
Oct 18, 2007, 10:35 AM
I've been an on eBay selling spree since Feb so I can get the money for a Mac Pro. I sold off all my old PC junk and other misc stuff that I finally managed to save up $3400 for a Mac Pro. It took all this time but I finally did it. It only makes sense to wait until the next harware update. Now that I have the money, I'm finding it really hard to wait. I hope that it comes soon.

4God
Oct 18, 2007, 10:36 AM
There better be an announcement NEXT WEEK! Come on Apple! DO NOT WAIT UNTIL 2008 for these!

Ditto. I'm hoping for an announcement next tuesday, 10/30/07. :D
I would like to get back to a MacPro soon. If I could get an 8 core 3.2 for
under $3900.00, I just might do it.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 10:37 AM
In terms of what will happen to the rest of the MacPro line, if you look at the expected prices of the dual and quad core parts, there is no good reason for Apple to use any of the dual core parts.

Intel is pricing their quad core Xeons extremely agressively. Compared to the current dual core Xeons being used in the Mac Pro, similarly priced quad core Penryn Xeons are as follows...

$316: Current 2.0Ghz DC -> 2.5Ghz QC Penryn
$744: Current 2.66Ghz DC -> 2.8Ghz QC Penryn
$1172: Current 3GHz DC -> 3.2Ghz QC Penryn

You can see why above that I think Apple will go all quad core for the next revision of the Mac Pro lineup.

The only reason i could think of for Apple to not go all quad core would be to purposefully segment (and IMO, hobble) their lineup, to really extract a premium for those who want quad core.I think you mean All Dual Quad Core. That's what I expect. All 8 Cores for today's same prices.

So what would the line-up look like?
Base: 2.4 8 Core
Middle: 2.8 8 core
Top: 3.0 or 3.2 8 core

Maybe?Almost Zactly - except bottom will be 2.5GHz not 2.4.
http://homepage.mac.com/ctopper/.Pictures/Harper3.jpg

iZaid
Oct 18, 2007, 10:39 AM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:39 AM
So what would the line-up look like?
Base: 2.4 8 Core
Middle: 2.8 8 core
Top: 3.0 or 3.2 8 core

Maybe?

I am still a little skeptical about the entire lineup being 8 core. I think Apple will make the top end 8 core standard for the current price of $3300 and the rest would be upgraded 4 cores.

Gloor
Oct 18, 2007, 10:40 AM
I seriously hope for 8core base Mac Pro. I would be very upset if I had to pay extra for 8 core option.

SirOmega
Oct 18, 2007, 10:41 AM
I think you mean All Dual Quad Core. That's what I expect. All 8 Cores for today's same prices.

Yea, you know what I mean. ;)

The only other possibility I see is Apple offering a 2x2.33 QC model for $1999 maybe...

2.33GHz - $1999
2.5Ghz - $2199
2.8Ghz - $2499
3.2Ghz - $2999

That would be sweet... with an edu discount I could get the "slow" MP for $1799 maybe...

mozmac
Oct 18, 2007, 10:43 AM
I like seeing Apple push the Mac Pro forward, but I would still like to see a lower end tower. A headless iMac but much more power than the Mini.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 10:44 AM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

Are you kidding me? I want that huge machine. It's so dominant and says, "Don't ******* with me!" haha. I love it!

rickdollar
Oct 18, 2007, 10:44 AM
This may be a silly question but will Leopard, Adobe CS3 and Apple pro products be able to fully utilize these 8 core processors?

Nugget
Oct 18, 2007, 10:45 AM
I'm buying one as soon as Apple says "go". It's been a long wait. :)

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 10:46 AM
This may be a silly question but will Leopard, Adobe CS3 and Apple pro products be able to fully utilize these 8 core processors?

YES! YES! and YES! :D

Gloor
Oct 18, 2007, 10:47 AM
would be also nice to get display refresh :)

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:47 AM
Yea, you know what I mean. ;)

The only other possibility I see is Apple offering a 2x2.33 QC model for $1999 maybe...

2.33GHz - $1999
2.5Ghz - $2199
2.8Ghz - $2499
3.2Ghz - $2999

That would be sweet... with an edu discount I could get the "slow" MP for $1799 maybe...

Like the PowerMacs of yester years. :D

I like seeing Apple push the Mac Pro forward, but I would still like to see a lower end tower. A headless iMac but much more power than the Mini.

Please don't start this discussion up again. :(

I hope they bring in new displays, before they bring in a replacement to the MacMini.

SirOmega
Oct 18, 2007, 10:48 AM
This may be a silly question but will Leopard, Adobe CS3 and Apple pro products be able to fully utilize these 8 core processors?

Leopard: yes
Adboe products: who knows, CS3 might not even work that well in Leopard let alone 8-core

Other products: for the most part, I know programs like Maya are set to use multiple threads in rendering...

capran
Oct 18, 2007, 10:49 AM
I like seeing Apple push the Mac Pro forward, but I would still like to see a lower end tower. A headless iMac but much more power than the Mini.

I second, and it's what I've been waiting for. I can't justify a Mac Pro, and the other Macs just don't have upgradeable graphics cards.

Cue the fanboys who'll flame me for not being in one of Apple's market brackets.

iMartini
Oct 18, 2007, 10:51 AM
New member here....

This is exciting news for me, as I'll finally be throwing my Dell PC out the Window and joining the Mac family next month. Right now I'm on the fence as to whether I want to buy a top-of-the-line 24" iMac, or the base model Mac Pro. With the student discount, there's only a $150 difference between the two, and each has its pros and cons. But depending on how this turns out, it may push me toward the Mac Pro.

Based on the photo posted, I guess we can assume the cheese-grater case will remain the same? Not that I mind it, but I was curious if Apple would be doing a cosmetic update as well.

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 10:54 AM
I second, and it's what I've been waiting for. I can't justify a Mac Pro, and the other Macs just don't have upgradeable graphics cards.

Cue the fanboys who'll flame me for not being in one of Apple's market brackets.

I am in the same market bracket, I don't need the horse power of the MacPro but i need upgradeable graphics. I do some freelance stuff and some personal computing but my paper will buy all the 8 core high-end MacPros that I need.

The issue here is that Apple won't do it anytime soon, and the topic has been talked to death since the G4 Cube and people haven't gotten a clue. I used to be in your boat until I got a clue, and have been flamed by people that were once in the same boat for years. We all moved on after nothing of a headless iMac appeared and have either learned to live with the iMac's limitations, or have saved up the cash and gotten the bottom end Mac Pro.

OR, we have bought PCs and keep an iMac around for the other things. There are other options once you think about it, and after a while you learn to not worry about what Apple doesn't have for me right this second, and start thinking about what I need right now to do my job.

ricosuave
Oct 18, 2007, 10:55 AM
Can I replace the C2 duo woodcrests in my pro with these new chips? Or does it need a whole different motherboard?

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 10:55 AM
This may be a silly question but will Leopard, Adobe CS3 and Apple pro products be able to fully utilize these 8 core processors?Adobe's don't but Apple's do. Leopard does big time. :)

irishgrizzly
Oct 18, 2007, 10:55 AM
*rubs tired eyes and leans forward* A Mac Pro rumor, really?

iZaid
Oct 18, 2007, 10:56 AM
Are you kidding me? I want that huge machine. It's so dominant and says, "Don't ******* with me!" haha. I love it!

haha, it does, its costs too much though, we pay 1699:eek: here in the UK, but i so need it for animation and design:cool:

williedigital
Oct 18, 2007, 10:56 AM
Are you kidding me? I want that huge machine. It's so dominant and says, "Don't ******* with me!" haha. I love it!

for real. I want 8 hard drive bays.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 10:57 AM
would be also nice to get display refresh :)

Yes, IMO Apple should also release a 20" not-so-awesome-quality display with iSight and IR to complement the Mac Mini...

JesterJJZ
Oct 18, 2007, 10:58 AM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

*raises hand*

I'm hoping for 6 drive bays. Would love a Raid 5 setup inside my tower.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
Can I replace the C2 duo woodcrests in my pro with these new chips? Or does it need a whole different motherboard?You could. But it would behoove you to sell what you have and buy the new one as the motherboard has a lot of enhancements that will help as well.

tivoli2
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
Well, I'm perfectly tickled, but then that giddiness is tempered by the feeling of impending doom regarding graphics cards. I have nothing other than a vague feeling of suspicion to base my words on.

Anyone heard anything on that front?

JesterJJZ
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
for real. I want 8 hard drive bays.

Even better! :D

williedigital
Oct 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
Since there is no mention of a case redesign, are most people assuming that they'll stick with the same enclosure and just get a new logic board?

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 11:00 AM
Well this is good news. But it also means that i'm selling my current setup sooner than expected.

Now, the problem is, this rumor doesn't say anything about new Displays. Should I sell my setup with the display or not?

Also, aside from the processor upgrade, what will the new machines have that the current ones don't? How much do you think they're gonna upgrade? Is it worth it for me to change? The rumor didn't say anything specific. It sounds sort of like a dead end processor upgrade to me.

echoout
Oct 18, 2007, 11:02 AM
Me! And most other video professionals. I would rather have the drives running quiet internally than another external enclosure to foul up my audio recordings.

who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

suneohair
Oct 18, 2007, 11:03 AM
I have one thing to say:

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! :D:apple::eek::D

Mac OS X Ocelot
Oct 18, 2007, 11:04 AM
You people and your money. The only way I'll see a new Mac Pro is if I drive for an hour to the nearest Apple Store. Even my school has the old plastic G4s and some first gen aluminum G5s.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:06 AM
You people and your money. The only way I'll see a new Mac Pro is if I drive for an hour to the nearest Apple Store. Even my school has the old plastic G4s and some first gen aluminum G5s.

I'm definitely not going to buy a MP (at least in the near future) but I can't wait to go into the Apple Store Regents Street and test the next one out :)

Marx55
Oct 18, 2007, 11:06 AM
A Mac miniTOWER with:

- 1 and up to 2 quad-core 45 nm Penryn processors.
- 4 GB RAM and up to 8 GB (1 GB per core).
- 1 and up to 2 disks 1 TB each inside (7,200 rpm).
- 4 eSATA II ports, 4 FireWire 800 ports and 4 USB 2 ports.
- 1 and up to 2 SuperDrives (option for Blu-ray)
- No need of PCI slots.
- As quiet as posible.

I will pay whatever for that!

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 11:06 AM
Well this is good news. But it also means that i'm selling my current setup sooner than expected.

Now, the problem is, this rumor doesn't say anything about new Displays. Should I sell my setup with the display or not?

Also, aside from the processor upgrade, what will the new machines have that the current ones don't? How much do you think they're gonna upgrade? Is it worth it for me to change? The rumor didn't say anything specific. It sounds sort of like a dead end processor upgrade to me.Quite the opposite. You obviously haven't been paying attention to our Stoakley-Seaburg thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4347768#post4347768). The current dual Clovertown is the dead end processor upgrade. This new one has a radically better motherboard to go with these new 45nm Penryns.

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 11:06 AM
You people and your money. The only way I'll see a new Mac Pro is if I drive for an hour to the nearest Apple Store. Even my school has the old plastic G4s and some first gen aluminum G5s.

Money... what's that... the only way I am going to afford my MP is to start crushing cans. I have about $2000 worth of crushed cans and bottles ready to ship. :D

That's how ma pappy did it.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 11:06 AM
I have one thing to say:

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! :D:apple::eek::D

Yea, we've been waiting for the longest time and it's finally coming. Just better not be January! I guess this was all worth the wait.

ricosuave
Oct 18, 2007, 11:07 AM
You could. But it would behoove you to sell what you have and buy the new one as the motherboard has a lot of enhancements that will help as well.

That makes sense. I hope my beloved holds its resale value. :D

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 11:08 AM
A Mac miniTOWER with:

- 1 and up to 2 quad-core 45 nm Penryn processors.
- 4 GB RAM and up to 8 GB (1 GB per core).
- 1 and up to 2 disks 1 TB each inside (7,200 rpm).
- 4 eSATA II ports, 4 FireWire 800 ports and 4 USB 2 ports.
- 1 and up to 2 SuperDrives (option for Blu-ray)
- No need of PCI slots.
- As quiet as posible.



Stop it! Please don't start it up...

I will pay whatever for that!

If so then get the MacPro! :D

juxtaposer
Oct 18, 2007, 11:08 AM
Maybe it's a sign for me to hold off on the MacBook and just go straight to this! I love how when people ask for the moon on a stick, Apple give it to them, with a shiny stick to boot! :D

tivoli2
Oct 18, 2007, 11:08 AM
You people and your money. The only way I'll see a new Mac Pro is if I drive for an hour to the nearest Apple Store. Even my school has the old plastic G4s and some first gen aluminum G5s.

Nothing wrong with old plastic G4s, mate - check my signature - but when you're doing work that would benefit from the power of these things (I've just been waiting for graphics card updates) they end up paying for themselves, to use a tired yet true old expression.

I haven't seen anyone post about wanting one to perch out front so they demonstrate their groovitude. ;)

Kingsly
Oct 18, 2007, 11:09 AM
Oh please please please be announced next tuesday! For crying out loud Apple, I have a film to edit!! Can't you see that?! :mad:


:rolleyes: :p

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:09 AM
Maybe it's a sign for me to hold off on the MacBook and just go straight to this! I love how when people ask for the moon on a stick, Apple give it to them, with a shiny stick to boot! :D

Apple hasn't given anything yet, in fact the MP should have got a price cut or update months ago...

capran
Oct 18, 2007, 11:09 AM
I am in the same market bracket, I don't need the horse power of the MacPro but i need upgradeable graphics. I do some freelance stuff and some personal computing but my paper will buy all the 8 core high-end MacPros that I need.

The issue here is that Apple won't do it anytime soon, and the topic has been talked to death since the G4 Cube and people haven't gotten a clue. I used to be in your boat until I got a clue, and have been flamed by people that were once in the same boat for years. We all moved on after nothing of a headless iMac appeared and have either learned to live with the iMac's limitations, or have saved up the cash and gotten the bottom end Mac Pro.

OR, we have bought PCs and keep an iMac around for the other things. There are other options once you think about it, and after a while you learn to not worry about what Apple doesn't have for me right this second, and start thinking about what I need right now to do my job.

Well, for me, I'm a PC tech, and I have to use and service Windows at work. Occasionally I get to play with Macs.

At home, I love having a Mac, but I also like to play games, and have a media center. I currently have a Shuttle PC on the HDTV (tried Linux on it for a while, but got frustrated, switched to Windows MCE which is still a bit of a pain but at least most stuff works and I can use Netflix Watch Now and Joost and other such stuff), and a Mini G4 and hacked-together gaming XP PC in the bedroom. I thought about putting the Mini on the TV, but no Netflix, no good media center that I know of (Front Row is on the Intel Mini, and I've gotten it to work on the G4, but it's just too limited. Forget about fullscreen H.264 on a G4! Even the Shuttle has problems.)

I'd love to have a new Mac that'll replace the G4 and the gaming box, but nothing seems to quite cut it unless I spend around $2500 which is just insanely way too much. In truth, there's just not a whole lot I really use the Mac for, but I'd love to get into iLife, maybe even Xcode. But the G4 is just too pokey for me.

In short, I love Macs and OS X, but unfortunately nothing currently available suits my needs and budget.

Konradx
Oct 18, 2007, 11:15 AM
lets hope they upgrade the video cards aswell. 8800 GTX please.

Marx55
Oct 18, 2007, 11:16 AM
Stop it! Please don't start it up...
If so then get the MacPro! :D

No way, because it mus be quiet. Ultra-quiet. Bedroom-quiet, which the Mac Pro is not! That is why a Mac mini TOWER is needed.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 11:19 AM
Thanks Multimedia. What did you say your predicted announcement date was? I should list my setup on ebay about 9 days before that.

And also, can you clear up some space in your inbox so you can take a look at my ebay listing? I would really appreciate it if you'd help me refine it.

iBug2
Oct 18, 2007, 11:19 AM
You think people with the old Mac Pro's would be able to upgrade to the new CPU's like they could buy the 8 Core one and put it in their 4 Core Mac Pro? Then it'd be pretty nice.

plumbingandtech
Oct 18, 2007, 11:20 AM
So is the speed bump... 25% faster at the same speed as current mac pro chips?

Nichod
Oct 18, 2007, 11:22 AM
The Mac Pro line is so tasty.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 11:22 AM
You think people with the old Mac Pro's would be able to upgrade to the new CPU's like they could buy the 8 Core one and put it in their 4 Core Mac Pro? Then it'd be pretty nice.You can. But you'll be missing out on the Stoakley-Seaburg enhancements to the motherboard so that's not a wise path to take.

plumbingandtech
Oct 18, 2007, 11:23 AM
No way, because it mus be quiet. Ultra-quiet. Bedroom-quiet, which the Mac Pro is not! That us why a Mac mini TOWER is needed.

Quiet is in the ear of the beholder.

My mac pro is super darn quiet considering how much power it has.

I am a noise snob and I think my macpro is QUIET. Yah I can hear the fan slightly....yah the cube was silent, but the cube did not give me 4 intel high performance cores and a 1300k bus speed.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 11:25 AM
No way, because it mus be quiet. Ultra-quiet. Bedroom-quiet, which the Mac Pro is not! That is why a Mac mini TOWER is needed.Why do you think the Mac Pro is noisy? I can't hear mine at all.Quiet is in the ear of the beholder.

My mac pro is super darn quiet considering how much power it has.

I am a noise snob and I think my macpro is QUIET. Yah I can hear the fan slightly....yah the cube was silent, but the cube did not give me 4 intel high performance cores and a 1300k bus speed.I agree completely. There is ZERO noise coming from a Mac Pro. It must be some kind of Urban Myth that there are still people out there who think Mac Pros are noisy. Fact is they are as quiet as Cubes - zero noise.

mdntcallr
Oct 18, 2007, 11:26 AM
The CPU upgrade will be terrific! but i am also hoping for:

1- Blu-ray drives - drives which can playback BD discs and option for one that can burn media
2- Graphics cards - Badly need an overhaul and HDCP compliant output. ie a card which can output HD video which is copy protected, ie the majority of them.

Card chips great to use:
GeForce 8800 GTX

midrange ones
GeForce 8800 GTS
Radeon HD X2900 XT

Stock card to use X1950 XT

But obviously check to make sure card is HDCP compliant

3- New Displays: need 1080P type monitors which can also display tv HDMI signals. have a tv type with speakers integrated.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 11:26 AM
So is the speed bump... 25% faster at the same speed as current mac pro chips?45% faster according to Intel (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/18/apple_to_fire_up_penryn_based_mac_pros.html).Speaking at Intel's Beijing developer forum earlier this year, Intel senior VP Pat Gelsinger said Harpertown Xeons will offer an approximate 45 percent speed increase for bandwidth-intensive applications compared to the Clovertown Xeon chips available in today's Mac Pros.

Virgil-TB2
Oct 18, 2007, 11:27 AM
A Mac miniTOWER with:

- 1 and up to 2 quad-core 45 nm Penryn processors.
- 4 GB RAM and up to 8 GB (1 GB per core).
- 1 and up to 2 disks 1 TB each inside (7,200 rpm).
- 4 eSATA II ports, 4 FireWire 800 ports and 4 USB 2 ports.
- 1 and up to 2 SuperDrives (option for Blu-ray)
- No need of PCI slots.
- As quiet as posible.

I will pay whatever for that!Aside from the fact that this is yet another version of the "xTower/MiniTower" fantasy, :rolleyes: this spec makes absolutely no sense for that market segment.

You are describing a low-end tower in the same niche as the iMac but with a bit more upgradeability (the dream lives on). But the kind of person in that market, is not going to need 4 SATA ports, not going to need 4 FireWire ports, not going to need Terabyte discs either. That's just nuts. Anyone needing that kind of I/O spec will need the full MP, and all of these weird additions will jack up the price almost to the MP price point anyway.

You also say that it doesn't need PCI slots, but the biggest argument for the "xTower/MiniTower" is that it needs upgradeable graphics. This is also the exact kind of machine (the low-end tower), that some idiot always wants to put a modem or some old network card into.

You will see a Mac Mini or an iMac that can swap out hard drives, graphics cards, and memory chips before you see anything like this IMO.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 11:27 AM
Mac Pro's do make noise. They are not silent. If you put one in a dead silent room, it would be very loud, and when you put it to sleep, you'd hear the sound in the room die down to real silence. Alot of people live in noisy places, or work in noisy places, so they don't hear the computer, but it definitely is not silent.

DrGruv1
Oct 18, 2007, 11:27 AM
My Guesses: In a couple of weeks :)

eSata 500gb standard
4 gig ram standard
Blu-ray
Upgraded video card (don't know enough to say which one)
HDMI
fire 400/800
digital audio - maybe spdif also?
USB 2.0
Included? Wireless/Bluetooth
New Keyboard - full size with numeric entry (possibly the new keyboard where lighted keys change according to application?) (add $200 to cost as option)

CHIPS
Hapertown
E5410 quad 2.33 $256 per 1000 with 12mb
E5430 quad 2.66 $455 per 1000 with 12mb
E5462 quad 3.00 $797 per 1000 with 12mb

Prices?
These are my GUESSES - so relax

Octo 2.33 = $1899
Octo 2.66 = $2399
Octo 3.00 = $2999

What do you think?

plumbingandtech
Oct 18, 2007, 11:27 AM
45% faster according to Intel.

Sweet. Thanks. That is significant!


Edit:


Who here wants a eSata Connector on the back of these things!!?!


MEEEE!

mdntcallr
Oct 18, 2007, 11:33 AM
Multimedia is right, the Mac Pro towers are very quiet.

tivoli2
Oct 18, 2007, 11:34 AM
The CPU upgrade will be terrific! but i am also hoping for:

1- Blu-ray drives - drives which can playback BD discs and option for one that can burn media
2- Graphics cards - Badly need an overhaul and HDCP compliant output. ie a card which can output HD video which is copy protected, ie the majority of them.

Card chips great to use:
GeForce 8800 GTX

midrange ones
GeForce 8800 GTS
Radeon HD X2900 XT

Stock card to use X1950 XT

But obviously check to make sure card is HDCP compliant

3- New Displays: need 1080P type monitors which can also display tv HDMI signals. have a tv type with speakers integrated.

I couldn't agree more. I forgot to mention the Blu-Ray drive... but my gut is telling me there won't be one yet. Would it be too much of a pain to install an internal BRD afterward?

jdhayes117
Oct 18, 2007, 11:34 AM
My Guesses: In a couple of weeks :)

eSata 500gb standard
4 gig ram standard
Blu-ray
Upgraded video card (don't know enough to say which one)
HDMI
fire 400/800
digital audio - maybe spdif also?
USB 2.0
Included? Wireless/Bluetooth
New Keyboard - full size with numeric entry (possibly the new keyboard where lighted keys change according to application?) (add $200 to cost as option)

CHIPS
Hapertown
E5410 quad 2.33 $256 per 1000 with 12mb
E5430 quad 2.66 $455 per 1000 with 12mb
E5462 quad 3.00 $797 per 1000 with 12mb

Prices?
These are my GUESSES - so relax

Octo 2.33 = $1899
Octo 2.66 = $2399
Octo 3.00 = $2999

What do you think?

I'm with you. I really hope for a full tech refresh, not just processors. I don't care if they use the same case, but give me eSATA for TimeMachine, at least an ATI 2900 video card, bump up the base RAM (in a quad configuration so you get the full benefit), offer an HD optical drive as an option, bump up the base hard drive configuration. Basically, bring the basic hardware up to current standards and give us the new Penyrn processor. Like many of you on the post, I've been sitting on a couple grand waiting for Leopard and the Mac Pro refresh.

Bottomline--any of you with connections inside :apple: hearing anything more than the processor/new mobo refresh?

Virgil-TB2
Oct 18, 2007, 11:37 AM
Mac Pro's do make noise. They are not silent. If you put one in a dead silent room, it would be very loud, and when you put it to sleep, you'd hear the sound in the room die down to real silence. Alot of people live in noisy places, or work in noisy places, so they don't hear the computer, but it definitely is not silent.Very few (if any) computers are totally silent.

That being said though, the MacPro is amongst the quietest there is. I think that was the point being made. :)

The original poster seemed to be claiming that the MacPro was some kind of "noise monster" when it certainly is not. The MacPro is one of the quietest computers you can buy. Pretty much every MacPro I have ever seen, you have to bend over and check the lights to see if it's on or not they are so quiet!

All Apple computers are significantly quieter compared to their equivalent Windows boxes. The only exception IMO are X-Serves and RAID's. Those guys sound like someone left the vacuum cleaner on, but then, they are supposed to.

BTW
Oct 18, 2007, 11:38 AM
Sounds good. Now give us some alternate form factors please. :D

suneohair
Oct 18, 2007, 11:39 AM
I think it is pretty reasonable to assume that this will be a full refresh. Including GPUs, HDs, etc. Considering the age of the Mac Pro, it is expected, and as I stated reasonable.

Woot!

Also, the Mac Pro is indeed super quiet.

iMartini
Oct 18, 2007, 11:40 AM
Including Bluetooth and wireless in the base models would be a nice touch, too. They're such cheap upgrades and already included in all iMacs, it should be a no-brainer.

Gloor
Oct 18, 2007, 11:42 AM
I hope they will not sell it with 1gb ram as standart. I hope for at least 2gb. 4gb should be appropriate for a machine with such a power :)

Clive At Five
Oct 18, 2007, 11:43 AM
...but Apple appears to have the option of a number of dual-core Penryn ("Wolfdale") processors that could find their way into the lower-end Mac Pros.
Not everyone shopping for a Mac Pro needs the top of the line 8 core machine, but it would be nice if they dropped the entry barrier a bit.
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

Apple, take a hint!

The gap between iMac and Mac Pro is so huge you could fit two product lines and semi in there.

The above quotations are three good reasons to make a smaller tower. And really there isn't a good reason not to (aside form your monetary greed, aparently). Intel's CPU offerings include a wide range of processors between those in the iMac and those in the Mac Pro. For prosumers, the iMac is too weak, has crappy graphics an NO EXPANDABILITY, meanwhile the MacPro is a waste for doing anything less than video-editing, 3D rendering and Photoshop filtering, simultaneously. Call it hyperbole if you want, but the main point is still true. We aren't all either "idiot consumers" or professionals. Ergo, we need a computer that can fit our needs. Desktop-class processor, video card, a PCI slot or two, extra HDD bay, extra optical bay.

It's not too much to ask so for the love of Trogdor, just do it.

Oh yeah, "please."

-Clive

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 11:43 AM
My Guesses: In a couple of weeks :)

eSata 500gb standard
4 gig ram standard
Blu-ray
Upgraded video card (don't know enough to say which one)
HDMI
fire 400/800
digital audio - maybe spdif also?
USB 2.0
Included? Wireless/Bluetooth
New Keyboard - full size with numeric entry (possibly the new keyboard where lighted keys change according to application?) (add $200 to cost as option)

CHIPS
Hapertown
E5410 quad 2.33 $256 per 1000 with 12mb
E5430 quad 2.66 $455 per 1000 with 12mb
E5462 quad 3.00 $797 per 1000 with 12mb

Prices?
These are my GUESSES - so relax

Octo 2.33 = $1899
Octo 2.66 = $2399
Octo 3.00 = $2999

What do you think?I think your speeds and prices are under the mark. All Dual Quad:

2.5 GHz 1333 MHz FSB $1,999
2.8 GHz 1600 MHz FSB $2,499
3.2 GHz 1600 MHz FSB $3,499

I think while I may be wrong about the exact prices, I feel fairly certain about the speeds.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 11:45 AM
It would be a shame if Apple doesn't release new displays on the same day as this update. I'll have to use my new Mac Pro with a 15" old Apple Studio Display while waiting for the ACD upgrade. Apple has got to do it together, don't you think?

Uragon
Oct 18, 2007, 11:46 AM
would be also nice to get display refresh :)

I second that :):)

tivoli2
Oct 18, 2007, 11:49 AM
We aren't all either "idiot consumers" or professionals. Ergo, we need a computer that can fit our needs. Desktop-class processor, video card, a PCI slot or two, extra HDD bay, extra optical bay.

It's not too much to ask so for the love of Trogdor, just do it.

Oh yeah, "please."

-Clive

Even though I'm in the need for the Mac Pro, this suggestion seems far from unreasonable to me. I seem to remember back when I was first looking at (dreaming of) getting a G3 tower (couldn't afford even the iMac then...) you could get a more middle-ish of the road machine.

But then, memory is tricky, innit? Regardless, I agree for the most part on the gap between iMac & Mac Pro.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 11:50 AM
I hope they will not sell it with 1gb ram as standart. I hope for at least 2gb. 4gb should be appropriate for a machine with such a power :)I'm praying for two 2GB sticks as base. But I'm not holding my breath.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 11:51 AM
I'm praying for two 2GB sticks as base. But I'm not holding my breath.

The MacBook Pro's have a base Ram of 2GB. The new Mac Pro's will for sure have at least that.

gugy
Oct 18, 2007, 11:52 AM
sorry, maybe I misunderstood. Somebody here said there is no enclosure redesign. Is that true? As far as I know this still up in the air.

If thy are referring to Multimedia photo on the first page, that looks like a cheap photoshop job IMHO.

psychofreak
Oct 18, 2007, 11:53 AM
The MacBook Pro's have a base Ram of 2GB. The new Mac Pro's will for sure have at least that.

They have 2x1GB, I think Multimedia meant 1x2GB stick, so he can add tons of 3rd party RAM :)

suneohair
Oct 18, 2007, 11:54 AM
I'm praying for two 2GB sticks as base. But I'm not holding my breath.

Wouldn't that be something! I am expecting 2x1GB, but we will see. So what do you think, Macworld or before that? It would seem if they want to be first it would need to be sooner.

Gloor
Oct 18, 2007, 11:55 AM
The MacBook Pro's have a base Ram of 2GB. The new Mac Pro's will for sure have at least that.

He meant 2x2GB :)

irishgrizzly
Oct 18, 2007, 11:55 AM
Even though I'm in the need for the Mac Pro, this suggestion seems far from unreasonable to me. I seem to remember back when I was first looking at (dreaming of) getting a G3 tower (couldn't afford even the iMac then...) you could get a more middle-ish of the road machine.

But then, memory is tricky, innit? Regardless, I agree for the most part on the gap between iMac & Mac Pro.

I know what side of the gap on want to land on :D

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 11:58 AM
Wouldn't that be something! I am expecting 2x1GB, but we will see. So what do you think, Macworld or before that? It would seem if they want to be first it would need to be sooner.

See that's what I am thinking. If Apple waits until January, so many other companies will already be using them by then. Apple doesn't like to be last. :)

bdkennedy1
Oct 18, 2007, 11:59 AM
The current design is excellent, but I hope they refresh it soon. It's been 4 years.

sblasl
Oct 18, 2007, 12:00 PM
I agree. I spent 8 years in the record business in the '70's, many concerts and lots of loud music. My hearing probably hasn't been helped by the fact that I use a back-pack blower to clean the leaves up in the yard. The Mac Pro is a very quite machine, especially compared to my previous G5. I am a stickler about keeping the internals of my computers cleaned. About every 3 months I clean the internals which include the fans to ensure that the computer continues to run cool & quite. Do not let anyone fool you that a Mac Pro is dead quite, but they are very, very quite considering what they have inside them.

BTW, I hope they keep the same case, just change the internal workings.

Mac Pro's do make noise. They are not silent. If you put one in a dead silent room, it would be very loud, and when you put it to sleep, you'd hear the sound in the room die down to real silence. Alot of people live in noisy places, or work in noisy places, so they don't hear the computer, but it definitely is not silent.

Wild-Bill
Oct 18, 2007, 12:02 PM
It's about time we got some Mac Pro rumors floating in, and finally something to substantiate our speculation!!!


I only hope and pray that Apple doesn't screw up the video card options. I certainly hope someone is listening on the other end of those Mac Pro feedback forms.

8800GTX please, or one of the new G92's.

Don't screw up the video card options Apple!!!

kirkbross
Oct 18, 2007, 12:02 PM
Oh please please please be announced next tuesday! For crying out loud Apple, I have a film to edit!! Can't you see that?! :mad:


:rolleyes: :p

...and I have an album to overdub and mix! Apple should know this by now too. I can barely run 48 track (LE) sessions @ 48k / 24bit on my deisel-powered, louder-than-satan-screaming dual 867 MDD.

If there are any drummers out there, here's Abe Laboriel Jr. cutting drums on one of my songs. I've been sitting on ten drum tracks since August waiting patiently for the Penryn MP to ship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zNs8NtOa9g

suneohair
Oct 18, 2007, 12:03 PM
See that's what I am thinking. If Apple waits until January, so many other companies will already be using them by then. Apple doesn't like to be last. :)

So, you gonna hold out now? ;)

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 12:06 PM
The MacBook Pro's have a base Ram of 2GB. The new Mac Pro's will for sure have at least that.Zactly. That's why I think the 8 cores might come with two 2GB sticks as a dead minimum since that is half as much ram per core as what the MBPs come with. Any expert user will tell you 8 cores need a minimum of 512MB per core to run efficiently. I will be populating mine with 16GB for sure. So I'd rather not have to toss out two 1GB sticks to do that.

Does anyone have a handle on what the 2GB 800 MHz Xeon type ram sticks will cost us?

4God
Oct 18, 2007, 12:06 PM
Any chance Apple would drop a bomb and introduce dual 8 core monsters for
a total of 16 cores? :D Multimedia, feel free to help me out here.

decadentdave
Oct 18, 2007, 12:07 PM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

People who work with uncompressed HD video, that's who. I welcome the larger drives but I was hoping the case design would get a little smaller. Those Mac Pro towers are monoliths and they weigh a frickin ton.

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 12:09 PM
if these speeds are correct, my god. Those are some fast machines for browsing MR i mean doing 3-d rendering ;)

keep in mind that when they say up to 45% faster, that could mean:

45% faster than the 2.0 ghz dual core MP, 20% faster than the 3.0 quad core

vassillios
Oct 18, 2007, 12:16 PM
I'm most def gonna get one






















......as soon as I win the lottery

plumbingandtech
Oct 18, 2007, 12:17 PM
Does anyone have a handle on what the 2GB 800 MHz Xeon type ram sticks will cost us?

Are these them?

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory

4God
Oct 18, 2007, 12:17 PM
I'm most def gonna get one






















......as soon as I win the lottery


Well, in that case, you can get me one too then. :D

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 12:19 PM
So, you gonna hold out now? ;)

Yes sir. Well, only til November. I need one by December or I'm screwed. haha.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 12:19 PM
Any chance Apple would drop a bomb and introduce dual 8 core monsters for
a total of 16 cores? :D Multimedia, feel free to help me out here.I suppose this is a joke post. :rolleyes: No chance. That type of configuration will not be possible for another year or so.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 12:20 PM
Yes sir. Well, only til November. I need one by December or I'm screwed. haha.Perhaps you can rent one of the old ones meanwhile. I think they will ship in November. Sales may begin next week. But this guess is based on Intel's permission for Apple to pre-sell it before the November 12 launch. Without that permission we may have to wait 'til then for Apple to even say they are coming. :(

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 12:23 PM
Well, for me, I'm a PC tech, and I have to use and service Windows at work. Occasionally I get to play with Macs.

At home, I love having a Mac, but I also like to play games, and have a media center. I currently have a Shuttle PC on the HDTV (tried Linux on it for a while, but got frustrated, switched to Windows MCE which is still a bit of a pain but at least most stuff works and I can use Netflix Watch Now and Joost and other such stuff), and a Mini G4 and hacked-together gaming XP PC in the bedroom. I thought about putting the Mini on the TV, but no Netflix, no good media center that I know of (Front Row is on the Intel Mini, and I've gotten it to work on the G4, but it's just too limited. Forget about fullscreen H.264 on a G4! Even the Shuttle has problems.)

I'd love to have a new Mac that'll replace the G4 and the gaming box, but nothing seems to quite cut it unless I spend around $2500 which is just insanely way too much. In truth, there's just not a whole lot I really use the Mac for, but I'd love to get into iLife, maybe even Xcode. But the G4 is just too pokey for me.

In short, I love Macs and OS X, but unfortunately nothing currently available suits my needs and budget.

Very well said, and I can understand your pain. Personally, I would love to see Apple merge the Mac Mini and Apple TV, making the Apple TV a much better computer, and the mini a much better media center PC.

My situation used to be a budget one. I didn't want to pay the cash for a full Mac Pro (at the time a Power Mac G5) and the iMac (at the time) wasn't much of a work horse. Now that the iMac has stepped up a little bit, and the cash I was saving for the Apple mini tower grew to about the price of a mid range Mac Pro and 23" display.

No way, because it mus be quiet. Ultra-quiet. Bedroom-quiet, which the Mac Pro is not! That is why a Mac mini TOWER is needed.

True.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 12:24 PM
Perhaps you can rent one of the old ones meanwhile. I think they will ship in November. Sales may begin next week. But this guess is based on Intel's permission for Apple to pre-sell it before the November 12 launch. Without that permission we may have to wait 'til then for Apple to even say they are coming.

See this is how lazy I am. I know I should wait, and I'm sure I'm gonna even if it's til January. I have access to a MacPro and 4 G5 Dual 2's here at work. So if I needed to work on something here, I could. But I just want my own and not have to drive to work to do something. haha. I'm sure I will be waiting. I have to. It'll be worth it.

Renting one would be funny... The relationship between Intel and Apple seems to be awesome. I'm sure there will be an announcement next week to hype Leopard even more.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 12:24 PM
Are these them?

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-MemoryNo those are the current 667 MHz sticks. The new top models will need 800 MHz sticks.

rockinrocker
Oct 18, 2007, 12:26 PM
No those are the current 667 MHz sticks. The new top models will need 800 MHz sticks.

wait a minute, does this mean they're not going to use DDR2?

eek, i don't wanna have to shell out that much for extra ram.....

rockinrocker
Oct 18, 2007, 12:28 PM
Zactly. That's why I think the 8 cores might come with two 2GB sticks as a dead minimum since that is half as much ram per core as what the MBPs come with. Any expert user will tell you 8 cores need a minimum of 512MB per core to run efficiently. I will be populating mine with 16GB for sure. So I'd rather not have to toss out two 1GB sticks to do that.

Does anyone have a handle on what the 2GB 800 MHz Xeon type ram sticks will cost us?

i wouldn't be surprised to see 4X512 (not that i want it that way....)

4God
Oct 18, 2007, 12:28 PM
I suppose this is a joke post. :rolleyes: No chance. That type of configuration will not be possible for another year or so.

No joke, I just don't know what the MOBO offering will allow and thought you could shed some educating light.
I know that 16 cores are a push, but you never know. It'd be kinda neat to see a 16 core 3.2 offering.

guzhogi
Oct 18, 2007, 12:29 PM
Zactly. That's why I think the 8 cores might come with two 2GB sticks as a dead minimum since that is half as much ram per core as what the MBPs come with. Any expert user will tell you 8 cores need a minimum of 512MB per core to run efficiently. I will be populating mine with 16GB for sure. So I'd rather not have to toss out two 1GB sticks to do that.

Does anyone have a handle on what the 2GB 800 MHz Xeon type ram sticks will cost us?

Check out dealram.com

liv4Mac
Oct 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
Zactly. That's why I think the 8 cores might come with two 2GB sticks as a dead minimum since that is half as much ram per core as what the MBPs come with. Any expert user will tell you 8 cores need a minimum of 512MB per core to run efficiently. I will be populating mine with 16GB for sure. So I'd rather not have to toss out two 1GB sticks to do that.

Does anyone have a handle on what the 2GB 800 MHz Xeon type ram sticks will cost us?

First and foremost YEEEEE PEEEEE!!!

I hope it's 2GB stick not two 1GB sticks.

Thanks for making me wait Multimedia.
I don't think I can wait anymore after this one.
I'm buying this sucka as soon as it's available.
I just hope the price is right. It better be.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 12:31 PM
Finally was already taken. ;) I beat Arn by 4 minutes (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4347768&postcount=1438). :pAnnounce next week. Ship November 12.

How do you know they'll be announced next week?

GoodWatch
Oct 18, 2007, 12:33 PM
This may be a silly question but will Leopard, Adobe CS3 and Apple pro products be able to fully utilize these 8 core processors?


It is actually a very good question. :D Like some versions of Operating Systems that cannot utilize or allocate RAM above 3.2 GB. I don't know the answer BTW.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 12:33 PM
wait a minute, does this mean they're not going to use DDR2?

eek, i don't wanna have to shell out that much for extra ram.....No I'm saying only the SPEED will need to be 800 MHz instead of 667 MHz in today's models. All the other specs will likely stay the same. So I'm wondering what the premium will be for that speed bump. Right now we can fully populate MP with 16GB for $770 (http://www.ramseeker.com/scripts/counter.php?http://www.omnitechnologies.biz/cgi-bin/catalog/cp-app.cgi?usr=&rnd=&rrc=N&affl=B&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=APLMP8X2GB667O&cat=emac2&catstr=). I'm hoping the faster RAM won't cost us more than $999 for the 16GB kit.

Just off the phone with Omni Technologies. They think my guess of $999 for the 16 GB Kits is spot on. :) A year from now or sooner they will be back down to the current $770 per 16 GB kit - i.e. Eight 2GB Sticks.

There's also the X-Factor of 4GB sticks coming next year. But when they will cross over as the same price as two 2GB sticks is anyone's guess.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 12:35 PM
How do you know they'll be announced next week?

Because he is God. He's been spot on with dates lately. I can see it being announced next week too. Hype up Leopard even more.

williedigital
Oct 18, 2007, 12:37 PM
Mac Pro's do make noise. They are not silent. If you put one in a dead silent room, it would be very loud, and when you put it to sleep, you'd hear the sound in the room die down to real silence. Alot of people live in noisy places, or work in noisy places, so they don't hear the computer, but it definitely is not silent.

I have had a macbook, imac, mac pro located in roughly the same area of my bedroom at different times. When at idle, they are all so quiet that they are practically silent. Frankly the buzzing from the circuitry of my lcd tv is as loud as the noise the machine makes a few feet away. When doing processing (say, encoding a movie to h.264), the macbook is the loudest, imac second loudest, and the mac pro still virtually silent.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 12:39 PM
Because he is God. He's been spot on with dates lately. I can see it being announced next week too. Hype up Leopard even more.

Great. My system is going on ebay, Right Now.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 12:46 PM
Great. My system is going on ebay, Right Now.

Just don't be pissed at me if it comes in January. I don't think it will, November looks like the month, but still, don't be pissed at me. haha.

williedigital
Oct 18, 2007, 12:47 PM
Just out of curiosity, if the new machines are at the same relative price points as multimedia lays out, what should used/refurbished versions of the current machines go for?

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 12:51 PM
I'm still hoping for a lower end model under $2,000.

Thread subscriptions still continue after posts are deleted as well.

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 12:53 PM
i wouldn't be surprised to see 4X512 (not that i want it that way....)I would. That would be cruel and unusual punishment beneath Apple to commit.

liv4Mac
Oct 18, 2007, 12:54 PM
Just out of curiosity, if the new machines are at the same relative price points as multimedia lays out, what should used/refurbished versions of the current machines go for?Apple has been riding on the $2499 price for a while now. I believe the older Mac Pros will go down tremendously. I'm surprise that we have not seen a price drop yet. That is what usually tells me something new is around the corner.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 12:55 PM
It looks like Apple does memory in pairs. So I'm going with 2x1GB.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 01:00 PM
Multimedia, what day next week do you think they'll be announced?

williedigital
Oct 18, 2007, 01:02 PM
Assuming they do go all octo-core penryn, what approximate clock speed do you think would equal the performance of the current 3.0 clovertown machines? Is it highly dependent on the application?

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 01:02 PM
How do you know they'll be announced next week?October 4 - Apple announcements brewing for late October [updated] (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/04/apple_announcements_brewing_for_late_october.html)
October 5 - Rumor has Apple hoarding supply of new 3.2GHz Xeons (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/05/rumor_has_apple_hoarding_supply_of_new_3_2ghz_xeons.html)Great. My system is going on ebay, Right Now.Note top 3.2 GHz OctoCore model may retail for $3,999Just don't be pissed at me if it comes in January. I don't think it will, November looks like the month, but still, don't be pissed at me. haha.Nor me. We're only publishing guesses based on tea leaves with no inside information.Assuming they do go all octo-core penryn, what approximate clock speed do you think would equal the performance of the current 3.0 clovertown machines? Is it highly dependent on the application?If you don't know you need more speed then wait for BareFeats (http://BareFeats.com) to tell us. Otherwise - Get In Line Willie. ;) :eek:

ChrisA
Oct 18, 2007, 01:05 PM
I am still a little skeptical about the entire lineup being 8 core. I think Apple will make the top end 8 core standard for the current price of $3300

What they need to do is let the Mac Pro line continue pretty much as is with two Intel Xeon chips, whatever Intel's current high end chip happens to be.

Then make another line that is comparable to the old "power mac" from 1999. These had one processor
chip and sold for about $1500.00 The new chips would allow Apple to again sell a $1500 tower. As it stands Apple is completely absent from the "mainstream" desktop market. They have only some very specialized products that are not what most people want. Apple notebooks are selling well but their desktop lineup is gone missing

I've deside I'm going to get a midrange desktop Mac in early '08 even if I have to build on myself.

nilk
Oct 18, 2007, 01:06 PM
I ended up buying a Mac Pro earlier this year because it was only Mac that really fit what I needed (a tower that gives me the options of lots of drives), but it was overkill for most of my needs. I wish they at least had a single-CPU option like they used to with the G5 PowerMacs. I didn't want a physically smaller machine, but I would have gone with a less powerful and cheaper one if I had the option. But I got the Mac Pro 2.0, w/ 2 SuperDrives, Bluetooth/Wifi, then threw in 4GB (for total of 5), and filled up all the hard drive bays with drives I already owned. I have never owned a computer that cost this much (the 486 my dad bought ages ago might've come close). I'm the type who does just fine buying hardware that is on the trailing edge/low-end. I won't be replacing this computer for a LONG time.

I can't really complain about the hardware much. I do think they should include eSata ports in the next Mac Pro considering they already have the SATA ports for it. Either that or another two internal hard drive bays, but I understand that in its current form, there's not much room for that.

I think part of the problem with Mac Pro's being expensive is that the used market is not an option because no one wants a G4/G5, they want Intel (with good reason). If that wasn't the case, buying an older used tower would be a good option for those who wanted a tower but were on a budget. Maybe in a few generations this will be the case.

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 01:09 PM
What they need to do is let the Mac Pro line continue pretty much as is with two Intel Xeon chips, whatever Intel's current high end chip happens to be.

Then make another line that is comparable to the old "power mac" from 1999. These had one processor
chip and sold for about $1500.00 The new chips would allow Apple to again sell a $1500 tower. As it stands Apple is completely absent from the "mainstream" desktop market. They have only some very specialized products that are not what most people want. Apple notebooks are selling well but their desktop lineup is gone missing

I've deside I'm going to get a midrange desktop Mac in early '08 even if I have to build on myself.Those single processor Mirrored Driver Door machines still work diligently to this day as well.

They're going to see Leopard. Those were much better times for Apple's desktop tower market. :(

atari1356
Oct 18, 2007, 01:10 PM
I wasn't familiar with the motherboard improvements Multimedia was talking about... so a Google search pulled up this article:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13224

Definitely worth a read to get more of the technical details of what's to come...

rockinrocker
Oct 18, 2007, 01:13 PM
I would. That would be cruel and unusual punishment beneath Apple to commit.


I hope you're right, but I guess we'll have to wait and see...

On a related note, the slower DDR2 would still run fine, right? (mostly just out of curiosity, since if the price difference to get 16 gig is only a couple hundred it's probably not worth it....)

jumpinjohn
Oct 18, 2007, 01:14 PM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

Some of us need to take a deep breath...

nickane
Oct 18, 2007, 01:16 PM
About time! This is gonna make so many ppl I know happy. And just to stoke the argument a little further, I think there should be a mid-range tower. I also think that there are a number of pieces of recent news (Wolfdale purchase speculation, Mac Mini having been touted as nearing EOL for so long now, midrange product much more heavily rumoured to be appearing in laptop line aka "MBP tablet") and ppl have a right to complain, even in this thread, for the umpteenth time.

I, for one, could ideally use an MP for work, but superquiet or not, it would be overkill (and overspending) to sit another one next to the projector, even if it could scale to 1080p on the fly, whereas a Mac Mini struggles to play those files altogether. If Apple would only let me have both computers I need... :rolleyes:

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 01:17 PM
The slower DDR2 would still run fine, right? (mostly just out of curiosity, since if the price difference to get 16 gig is only a couple hundred it's probably not worth it....)Not if you buy a 1600 MHz FSB model. You'll need the faster ram to take advantage of the faster motherboard's FSB as dictated by the processors. But the difference is only going to be about $230 more so no biggie.

rockinrocker
Oct 18, 2007, 01:20 PM
Not if you buy a 1600 MHz FSB model. You'll need the faster ram to take advantage of the faster motherboard's FSB as dictated by the processors. But the difference is only going to be about $230 more so no biggie.

ok, cool. that's no biggie, 'specially since i'm *only* going to add 8 gig initially.
:D

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 01:21 PM
I wasn't familiar with the motherboard improvements Multimedia was talking about... so a Google search pulled up this article from TECHREPORT.com (http://techreport.com)

Intel's Stoakley platform and 45nm Xeons
In the wake of AMD's Barcelona, Intel counters
by Scott Wasson 4:00 PM on September 18, 2007 (http://techreport.com/articles.x/13224)

Definitely worth a read to get more of the technical details of what's to come...Thank you for finding that. This is a super excellent 11 page report on the state of Stoakley with Harpertown I have not seen before. Awesome photographs.

Great Get Atari1356. :)

Digital Skunk
Oct 18, 2007, 01:23 PM
Those single processor Mirrored Driver Door machines still work diligently to this day as well.

They're going to see Leopard. Those were much better times for Apple's desktop tower market. :(

Yes they were. Even when the Power Mac G5 was on its way out, students could get one for $1800, or find a used but less efficient model for less. And as for the G4s, they were still screamers compared to the G5s which held less HDDs. Many a student picked up refurbed dual processor G4s clocked at 867 MHz and 1 GHz. Finding the rare but powerful dual 1.42 GHz machines was amazing, because they could be had for $1000 completely stripped naked.

I ended up buying a Mac Pro earlier this year because it was only Mac that really fit what I needed (a tower that gives me the options of lots of drives), but it was overkill for most of my needs. I wish they at least had a single-CPU option like they used to with the G5 PowerMacs. I didn't want a physically smaller machine, but I would have gone with a less powerful and cheaper one if I had the option. But I got the Mac Pro 2.0, w/ 2 SuperDrives, Bluetooth/Wifi, then threw in 4GB (for total of 5), and filled up all the hard drive bays with drives I already owned. I have never owned a computer that cost this much (the 486 my dad bought ages ago might've come close). I'm the type who does just fine buying hardware that is on the trailing edge/low-end. I won't be replacing this computer for a LONG time.

I can't really complain about the hardware much. I do think they should include eSata ports in the next Mac Pro considering they already have the SATA ports for it. Either that or another two internal hard drive bays, but I understand that in its current form, there's not much room for that.

I think part of the problem with Mac Pro's being expensive is that the used market is not an option because no one wants a G4/G5, they want Intel (with good reason). If that wasn't the case, buying an older used tower would be a good option for those who wanted a tower but were on a budget. Maybe in a few generations this will be the case.

I think the updated Mac Pros will also bring a new life to the refurbed Mac market. When they first debuted and kicked the Power Mac out of the line up, a lot of users picked up the G5s and G4s that they were replacing, but knew that the software market would be changing fast and understood the implications of buying into an old processor. Now that the Mac Pros currently in store will be on the refurbed bench, many users may be able to get that 2.66 GHz model for around $2199 and get the 2.0 GHz model for $1999 or less.

For those considering an underpowered Mac Pro for a new concept for Apple, you may want to keep your eyes peeled for deals like that. I am not too sure that many people got the quad 2 GHz Mac Pro, but on the used market it may be what you have been looking for.

Ctrl2k
Oct 18, 2007, 01:25 PM
45% faster according to Intel (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/18/apple_to_fire_up_penryn_based_mac_pros.html).

I think the 45% speedup applies specifically to SSE4 optimized code.

I think more like 20% will be the norm (clock for clock), which is still quite impressive.

Of course, I recently upgraded my 4-core 2.66 MP to an 8-core 3.0 Clovertown MP, so I'll have to be happy with what I have for now. I know, it's so slow compared to these new machines, huh! ;)

What I am really looking forward to is new graphics card options that will work in all the Mac Pros. Motion is very reliant on the GPU and in an 8-core machine the GPU (even on my X1900) is slowing things down.

skellener
Oct 18, 2007, 01:27 PM
This may be a silly question but will Leopard, Adobe CS3 and Apple pro products be able to fully utilize these 8 core processors?

Adobe After Effects still does NOT utilize multiprocessors!! I have a quad 2.66 with the latest AE CS3 and Tiger installs + 4GB RAM. Just try checking that box in the prefs! It will bring your machine to it's knees! It doesn't work! I can't get any work done with it. Unchecked on a single proc seems to run previews and renders fine.

So how about fixing it Adobe?

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 01:30 PM
Adobe After Effects still does NOT utilize multiprocessors!! I have a quad 2.66 with the latest AE CS3 and Tiger installs + 4GB RAM. Just try checking that box in the prefs! It will bring your machine to it's knees! It doesn't work! I can't get any work done with it. Unchecked on a single proc seems to run previews and renders fine.

So how about fixing it Adobe?

But is it faster than a G4 Dual 800MHZ? It'll be all worth the money if so. lol

chubad
Oct 18, 2007, 01:31 PM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

Duh. Video Editors and production Pros that's who. They need to keep the pro machines BIG for expandability. 4 hard drives are nice. 8 would be even better!

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 01:32 PM
Yes they were. Even when the Power Mac G5 was on its way out, students could get one for $1800, or find a used but less efficient model for less. And as for the G4s, they were still screamers compared to the G5s which held less HDDs. Many a student picked up refurbed dual processor G4s clocked at 867 MHz and 1 GHz. Finding the rare but powerful dual 1.42 GHz machines was amazing, because they could be had for $1000 completely stripped naked.



I think the updated Mac Pros will also bring a new life to the refurbed Mac market. When they first debuted and kicked the Power Mac out of the line up, a lot of users picked up the G5s and G4s that they were replacing, but knew that the software market would be changing fast and understood the implications of buying into an old processor. Now that the Mac Pros currently in store will be on the refurbed bench, many users may be able to get that 2.66 GHz model for around $2199 and get the 2.0 GHz model for $1999 or less.

For those considering an underpowered Mac Pro for a new concept for Apple, you may want to keep your eyes peeled for deals like that. I am not too sure that many people got the quad 2 GHz Mac Pro, but on the used market it may be what you have been looking for.I've noticed massive price drops in the Power Mac G4 market as well.

Higher end Quicksilver and even Mirrored Drive Door models regularly hit $300-400 over at LowEndMac (http://www.lowendmac.com/).

I have a professor that has an old Dual 450 MHz and a dead iBook G3. If they're interested in Leopard I might suggest a faster used Power Mac.

milo
Oct 18, 2007, 01:34 PM
Please don't start this discussion up again. :(

I hope they bring in new displays, before they bring in a replacement to the MacMini.

It's not going away until apple fills the enormous chasm in their product line between the mini and the towers.

This would be a perfect opportunity. If they can ship 8 core machines for the same price as the current 4 cores, that means they could add an even cheaper tower with 4 cores instead of just making the line all 8's, whether it's the same tower design, or a smaller, cheaper one.

chubad
Oct 18, 2007, 01:35 PM
Adobe After Effects still does NOT utilize multiprocessors!! I have a quad 2.66 with the latest AE CS3 and Tiger installs + 4GB RAM. Just try checking that box in the prefs! It will bring your machine to it's knees! It doesn't work! I can't get any work done with it. Unchecked on a single proc seems to run previews and renders fine.

So how about fixing it Adobe?
I hate to break everyones bubble but many applications use multi-core CPU's poorly or not at all. Keep Activity Monitor open and display the CPU usage while you work. It's not a pretty sight. I'm hoping for some improvement with Leopard but the developers need to get on the stick and start coding for Multi-Core.

volvoben
Oct 18, 2007, 01:37 PM
Although Apple could still anger me with their announcement, I think there are 2 options for what will happen, and truthfully both will make me quite happy.

1-lineup is replaced with all 8 core models, ~same prices, 2.5, 2.8, 3.2ghz
2-lineup has 8 core top models including 3.2, as well as $2000 or less quad

I suppose I'd prefer having both options, just adding a lower model that i might be able to get for $1800 with the girlfriend's edu. I understand the mini-tower just isn't in the business plan, but a quasi-affordable expandable tower would be great for me, plus i could probably afford a MB sooner thereafter...

still, 8 cores, maybe 500gb hdd, 2gb ram, 7800 or 8600 etc. to start at $2500 would make a modern machine with some great legs to last a good 4 years in my photo/print workflow.

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 01:38 PM
I hate to break everyones bubble but many applications use multi-core CPU's poorly or not at all. Keep Activity Monitor open and display the CPU usage while you work. It's not a pretty sight. I'm hoping for some improvement with Leopard but the developers need to get on the stick and start coding for Multi-Core.

Yea but all future production programs will be 8-core function-able I'm sure.

Sincere
Oct 18, 2007, 01:40 PM
I've been waiting for an upgrade diligently as many of you have... I'm using a rev1 17" powerbook, and it's just not capable of doing my audio work anymore. My 1Ghz machine can't even run Logic Studio! So, I too want to upgrade, and have been waiting for the rumored Mac Pro refresh, but I also was hoping to wait out a case redesign too... And then of course the rev2 of it.

No one has talked about this much, but it's wayyy overdude, IMO, as they're still using the G5 case. Most people here are more interested in function over form, but I will be one salty cracker if they introduce a new case (and matching display?) in the spring after I've shelled out $5000 for a matching "G5-look" setup.

Does anyone have any thoughts on when we might see a case (and display?) redesign and what internal benefits might come along with that?

iPhil
Oct 18, 2007, 01:49 PM
I wasn't familiar with the motherboard improvements Multimedia was talking about... so a Google search pulled up this article:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13224

Definitely worth a read to get more of the technical details of what's to come...


In addition to the extra throughput, Stoakley can house twice as much memory as Bensley—up to 128GB—and will support FB-DIMM fail-over for high-reliability systems. Seaburg also doubles the number of PCIe lanes and upgrades those links to second-generation PCI Express.



that quote seemed the juiciest tidbit for me





Not if you buy a 1600 MHz FSB model. You'll need the faster ram to take advantage of the faster motherboard's FSB as dictated by the processors. But the difference is only going to be about $230 more so no biggie.


Is there any current apps capable of using the 1.6Ghz FSB fully and the possible 128GB from the quote above ? :o

ma2ha3
Oct 18, 2007, 01:57 PM
brillant CPU
but probably come with a weak GPU

3.2 oct? cannot afford. not interested.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 01:57 PM
Why didn't this rumor come along with a rumor about updated displays? Wouldn't Apple update their dinosaur displays at the same time as the Mac Pros?

rsoerensen
Oct 18, 2007, 01:58 PM
I think it's very likely that there will be some update of the display line as well - either a refresh or a total redesign. It definitely needs a redesign, thinner and sleeker - and is as much (over) due as the mac pro - luckily, all displays have been updated every time the mac pro has seen an update (except for one time in 2003 i think it was).

Since there has been no news regarding a new Mac Pro tower design, I do doubt that there will be a new design for the ACDs. But with the iMac being thinner and sleeker than the ACD's while it carry a powerfull computer on the inside, ACDs needs to be updated. Simple as that

Steve will also have a real screen to show off his Leopard then ;)

I know a lot of you think that the ACDs are beautiful as they are and all... Well I agree some extend - they are nice, but some new **** has come to light.. And given the nature of all this new ****, you know.. This could be a lot more complex!

chedda
Oct 18, 2007, 02:00 PM
So does this mean 2 x16 lanes is possible in the new mac pro ?

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 02:01 PM
I hate to break everyones bubble but many applications use multi-core CPU's poorly or not at all. Keep Activity Monitor open and display the CPU usage while you work. It's not a pretty sight. I'm hoping for some improvement with Leopard but the developers need to get on the stick and start coding for Multi-Core.I hate to break your bubble but if you use mundane applications like Toast 8 & Handbrake they both use all 4 cores and EACH will use all 8 cores of the new Mac Pros. I have to separate work between two Quad Macs just to maximize speed right now that I could do on one 8 core Mac Pro even faster. But that will not obsolete using these Quad Macs for more work at the same time.Yea but all future production programs will be 8-core function-able I'm sure.Zactly. Plus I think your Activity Monitor is in for a rude awakening when it is looking at a Leopard system instead of a Tiger system.

The future will be all multi-threaded. Deal with it. :eek: ;)

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 02:03 PM
Can I hope to get at least $4500 for this setup if I sell it before the new ones are announced?

Quad 3.0Ghz Intel Xeon.
2GB ram. (4x 512mb).
1.2TB hard drive space. (2x 320GB seagate. 1x 500GB Maxtor. 1x 160GB Seagate)
ATI Radeon X1900XT/512mb + Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT.
Two 16x Superdrives.
AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth built in.
Single user retail version of Mac OS X Leopard.

Latest revision 23" Apple Cinema Display with no ghosting or backlight bleeding.

Everything like new with all original packaging, cables, and documentation.

4God
Oct 18, 2007, 02:08 PM
Can I hope to get at least $4500 for this setup if I sell it before the new ones are announced?

Quad 3.0Ghz Intel Xeon.
2GB ram. (4x 512mb).
1.2TB hard drive space. (2x 320GB seagate. 1x 500GB Maxtor. 1x 160GB Seagate)
ATI Radeon X1900XT/512mb + Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT.
Two 16x Superdrives.
AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth built in.
Single user retail version of Mac OS X Leopard.

Latest revision 23" Apple Cinema Display with no ghosting or backlight bleeding.

Everything like new with all original packaging, cables, and documentation.

Maybe, put a feeler in the marketplace thread.

netdog
Oct 18, 2007, 02:08 PM
Based on the photo posted, I guess we can assume the cheese-grater case will remain the same? Not that I mind it, but I was curious if Apple would be doing a cosmetic update as well.

LOL. Somehow I don't think that Apple provided this graphic.

netdog
Oct 18, 2007, 02:09 PM
Like the PowerMacs of yester years. :D


Only way faaaaaaaaaaasssssssssster.:eek:

Multimedia
Oct 18, 2007, 02:13 PM
Can I hope to get at least $4500 for this setup if I sell it before the new ones are announced?

Quad 3.0Ghz Intel Xeon.
2GB ram. (4x 512mb).
1.2TB hard drive space. (2x 320GB seagate. 1x 500GB Maxtor. 1x 160GB Seagate)
ATI Radeon X1900XT/512mb + Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT.
Two 16x Superdrives.
AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth built in.
Single user retail version of Mac OS X Leopard.

Latest revision 23" Apple Cinema Display with no ghosting or backlight bleeding.

Everything like new with all original packaging, cables, and documentation.Doubtful. I paid $2700 for a 2.66 with a 150GB 10K Raptor, two 500s, the 250 it came with, 5GB of ram and bluetooth + a 23" ACD HD both only 2 months old in August.

But you never know. You might get lucky and find someone. It all depends on how lucky you are to find a buyer in what context. Good Luck. :)

iMartini
Oct 18, 2007, 02:23 PM
LOL. Somehow I don't think that Apple provided this graphic.

Heh... Yeah, I sort of figured it was a Photoshop job the minute I hit the "Submit Reply" button. But it seems like if they were updating the Mac Pro cases and/or the ACD's, we would have heard something to that effect by now? Seems like the news stories have all been about under-the-hood changes.

I think the Mac Pros look pretty sharp as is, but such a substantial jump in processing power begs for a redesigned case. New wine skins for new wine, you know. It would be interesting to see what Apple comes up with.

I agree with the previous poster who said the Apple Cinema displays could stand to be slimmed down a bit, and maybe incorporate LED technology.

ggk
Oct 18, 2007, 02:24 PM
I've been waiting for a new MP for a long time (for my standards, which is a few months) I plan to buy the monster with the basic memory configuration and then by the extra memory somewhere else.
My questions is: Is there any real and visible advantage of having more than 8Gb of RAM? Do you think Leopard or any application will have any improvement above 8Gb?
Thanks !!!

blybug
Oct 18, 2007, 02:26 PM
I am a stickler about keeping the internals of my computers cleaned. About every 3 months I clean the internals which include the fans to ensure that the computer continues to run cool & quite.
Do you have a resource on how to go about this correctly and safely? My PM G5 sounds like a vacuum cleaner running most of the time, and I swear it's getting louder as the old horse gets older. Maybe a good cleaning would help a little...

So aside from the obvious "open up the box and clean everything you see..."

What kind of "cleaning solution" do you use?
Are there parts that should/can be really broken down and taken apart down to their innards?
Should I actually bother...is the PM G5 just inherently loud?

Thanks!

TurboSC
Oct 18, 2007, 02:26 PM
oh man... now I'm torn between getting a MBP or investing towards a tower.

netdog
Oct 18, 2007, 02:27 PM
I have had a macbook, imac, mac pro located in roughly the same area of my bedroom at different times. When at idle, they are all so quiet that they are practically silent. Frankly the buzzing from the circuitry of my lcd tv is as loud as the noise the machine makes a few feet away. When doing processing (say, encoding a movie to h.264), the macbook is the loudest, imac second loudest, and the mac pro still virtually silent.

The Penryn-based models could also be quieter as they should run cooler...just as long as they offer at least one video card that isn't a flamethrower.

CWallace
Oct 18, 2007, 02:30 PM
I'm still hoping for a lower end model under $2,000.

As am I.

When I decided to go to the Mac fully, I looked hard at the Mac Pro, but $4000+ is just a killer, so I went with the new 24" iMac.

If they could give us a single E5405 with 1GB (2x512MB), a 250GB HDD and a SuperDrive for $1499 (with no video), I'd move the iMac into another room and buy the Mac Pro, because I could outfit it myself with more RAM and HDD.

But if the entry price is still $2500 for a basic system with dual CPUs, 1GB, 250GB HDD, SuperDrive, and junk video... I'll work around the iMac.

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 02:32 PM
As am I.

I looked hard at the Mac Pro, but $4000+ is just a killer, so I went with the new 24" iMac.

If they could give us a single E5405 with 1GB (2x512MB), a 250GB HDD and a SuperDrive for $1499 (with no video), I'd move the iMac into another room and buy the Mac Pro, because I could outfit it myself with more RAM and HDD.

But if the entry price is still $2500 for a basic system with dual CPUs, 1GB, 250GB HDD, SuperDrive, and junk video... I'll work around the iMac.I might just build my own box then if I can't afford a Mac Pro.

chameleon
Oct 18, 2007, 02:34 PM
And I would love to see the base price of the MP to come down to $2000, for those that can't save the money and instead whine about how Apple needs to cater to them.
I'd like to see them do better than that. If Dell can sell a machine with a base Dual Core Xeon for $1,400, Apple should at least be able to hit $1,750.

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 02:35 PM
I'd like to see them do better than that. If Dell can sell a machine with a base Dual Core Xeon for $1,400, Apple should at least be able to hit $1,750.You should see how low a Q6600 based machine can go. :rolleyes:

CWallace
Oct 18, 2007, 02:38 PM
I'd like to see them do better than that. If Dell can sell a machine with a base Dual Core Xeon for $1,400, Apple should at least be able to hit $1,750.

I'm using an HP xw6400 right now which, for about $2300, has two Intel Xeon 5110s, 4GB of RAM, 2x160GB HDDs, 2xDVD Burners, and an nVidia Quadro NVS285.

I don't expect Apple to be as inexpensive as PC makers because they historically have not been. But the gap between the iMac and the Mac Pro in price is just enormous.

If you only want to restrict sales of the Pro to "Professionals" whose workload pays for the machine (as my HP does), then okay. Charge the Moon and the Stars.

But would it kill them to offer something a little less dear?

BenRoethig
Oct 18, 2007, 02:39 PM
Since there is no mention of a case redesign, are most people assuming that they'll stick with the same enclosure and just get a new logic board?

They can possibly update the exterior to make it more like the AL iMac, but Apple is already putting a dual CPU workstation inside something similar to a full ATX desktop case with basically no loss in functionality. With designs like the iMac and Mac Mini that give up features for size, I don't think a lot of Mac users appreciate what a marvel the Mac Pro really is.

The CPU upgrade will be terrific! but i am also hoping for:

1- Blu-ray drives - drives which can playback BD discs and option for one that can burn media
2- Graphics cards - Badly need an overhaul and HDCP compliant output. ie a card which can output HD video which is copy protected, ie the majority of them.

Card chips great to use:
GeForce 8800 GTX

midrange ones
GeForce 8800 GTS
Radeon HD X2900 XT

Stock card to use X1950 XT

But obviously check to make sure card is HDCP compliant

3- New Displays: need 1080P type monitors which can also display tv HDMI signals. have a tv type with speakers integrated.

I'm hoping a 256mb FireGL v3600 standard with a choice of mid and high range FireGL and Quadro cards BTO. Apple's decision to try to make the Mac Pro a desktop/workstation hybrid doesn't benefit either the consumers or the pros. Let the Xeon Mac Pro be a full workstation with workstation graphics and also package a sub $2000 versions with a core 2 Duo/ X38 chipset arraignment with consumer graphics. Everyone will be better, including Apple.

BenRoethig
Oct 18, 2007, 02:43 PM
I'd like to see them do better than that. If Dell can sell a machine with a base Dual Core Xeon for $1,400, Apple should at least be able to hit $1,750.

That's a 1.6ghz Xeon in basically a barebones configuration. If anything, it shows how much of a waste a xeon/5000x setup is a single CPU setup.

motulist
Oct 18, 2007, 02:56 PM
I'm hoping the faster RAM won't cost us more than $999 for the 16GB kit.

Wow. I'm officially an old fart! I remember when a high end system came with 16 MB of RAM, not 16 GB! That's a 100 times increase (or is it 1000 times?) - a full order of magnitude larger!

TantalizedMind
Oct 18, 2007, 02:58 PM
I hope it comes soon.

It is time to upgrade my Quad G5. I need to sell it while has Applecare and still a great machine. Do it Apple, Do it!:D

Hmm... if you MUST upgrade your Quad G5, then I NEED to upgrade my Single 1.8Ghz G5. I think a new Quad Mac Pro will fill the spot. No way I need/afford an Octo.

Eraserhead
Oct 18, 2007, 03:00 PM
Wow. I'm officially an old fart! I remember when a high end system came with 16 MB of RAM, not 16 GB! That's a 100 times increase (or is it 1000 times?) - a full order of magnitude larger!

An order of magnitude is 10x bigger ;). As 1GB is 1024MB, its over 3 orders of magnitude more.

mdntcallr
Oct 18, 2007, 03:03 PM
I couldn't agree more. I forgot to mention the Blu-Ray drive... but my gut is telling me there won't be one yet. Would it be too much of a pain to install an internal BRD afterward?

I think they are available but expensive. a blu-ray drive for adding on is about $1000k USD, personally i think that is a crazy price and it needs to come down big time. these drives ought to cost 3-400 US dollars, and come down over time for them to catch on.

mdntcallr
Oct 18, 2007, 03:07 PM
It's not going away until apple fills the enormous chasm in their product line between the mini and the towers.

This would be a perfect opportunity. If they can ship 8 core machines for the same price as the current 4 cores, that means they could add an even cheaper tower with 4 cores instead of just making the line all 8's, whether it's the same tower design, or a smaller, cheaper one.

I have been saying for years that Apple needs to make a mid range tower with expandability and power.

it is so frustrating they haven't lifted a finger and make people buy either an imac or mac pro. mac mini's have very little real power.

oh well... wish Apple gets a clue and stops being so stubborn

Carl Spackler
Oct 18, 2007, 03:07 PM
I know a lot of you think that the ACDs are beautiful as they are and all... Well I agree some extend - they are nice, but some new **** has come to light.. And given the nature of all this new ****, you know.. This could be a lot more complex!

You gotta feed the monkey, man.

P.S. I can get you a toe.

mdntcallr
Oct 18, 2007, 03:15 PM
[QUOTE=BenRoethig;4349120

I'm hoping a 256mb FireGL v3600 standard with a choice of mid and high range FireGL and Quadro cards BTO. Apple's decision to try to make the Mac Pro a desktop/workstation hybrid doesn't benefit either the consumers or the pros. Let the Xeon Mac Pro be a full workstation with workstation graphics and also package a sub $2000 versions with a core 2 Duo/ X38 chipset arraignment with consumer graphics. Everyone will be better, including Apple.[/QUOTE]

putting a core 2 duo into a mac pro box is idiotic and lame. it needs more power than a laptop chip. you know that.

Eidorian
Oct 18, 2007, 03:17 PM
putting a core 2 duo into a mac pro box is idiotic and lame. it needs more power than a laptop chip. you know that.I'm sure the that E/Q6xxx and Xeon 3xxx/31xx Series beg to differ. ;)

BenRoethig
Oct 18, 2007, 03:23 PM
putting a core 2 duo into a mac pro box is idiotic and lame. it needs more power than a laptop chip. you know that.

You do understand that the Core 2 series is a family and not just a laptop chip right. It has three branches:

T-series: laptops
E/Q-series: desktops
Xeon 5000 series (as in Mac Pro chips): workstation/server

Amdahl
Oct 18, 2007, 03:26 PM
I suppose this is a joke post. :rolleyes: No chance. That type of configuration will not be possible for another year or so.

At least two years, if ever. You don't really need 16 general purpose cores in a machine. By the time you get to that point, you can't find enough code to run. And when you do, it is more likely the media manipulation stuff, which would actually benefit more from less general purpose cores, and more special purpose cores. (Hence the cancerous growth of SSE)

Look at the PS3 CPU for the model here. One general purpose, 7 or 8 of the special purpose.

The reason I say two years, is that Intel has only just begun their work to create something akin to AMD's Hyper Transport/NUMA memory bus architecture.

twoodcc
Oct 18, 2007, 03:27 PM
FINALLY!!!! Good news there is finally an update coming.

yep. this is very good news. now let's hope this is true

Lord Blackadder
Oct 18, 2007, 03:28 PM
If Apple were to release a Core 2 machine it would require a new motherboard, correct? If that's the case I don;t see them doing it anytime soon, though the though of being able to tap the 3rd party hardware market further for upgrades is mouthwatering.

I have been saying for years that Apple needs to make a mid range tower with expandability and power.

And Apple have been saying for years that mid towers are needlessly wasteful, since relatively few people exercise even 10% of the upgrade potential of a tower form factor, preferring instead to buy a new machine. Apple bases their entire consumer product philosophy on this notion.

The Mac Pro only exists as a tower because that is perceived to be absolutely necessary for pro computers.

I don't agree with this concept myself, and would like to see a cheaper tower from Apple, but the vast majority of those calling for a mid tower are gamers, a group Apple cares less about than any other at the moment.

Personally, I will be shelling out for a Mac Pro when the time comes to replace my PowerMac...I'd love a cheaper mid-tower but the advantages of the Mac OS, in my opinion, outweigh the hardware benefits of going Windows/Linux.

weblogik
Oct 18, 2007, 03:30 PM
Question
I'm going to be using my new macpro 85% of the time in Adobe CS3 (photoshop mainly_my work) and 10% of the time in Logic studio purely for fun

Is it worth for me to get a top of the line octo? will cs3 even be able to take advantage of the top of the line processor or will a low-mid model do the same ?

I can afford it but i dotn want to spend the money and maybe use the saved money for ram and some peripherals...

volvoben
Oct 18, 2007, 03:32 PM
putting a core 2 duo into a mac pro box is idiotic and lame. it needs more power than a laptop chip. you know that.

I'm sure 85 people have already beaten me to this, but core2duo is just a marketing term for intel's high end desktop and laptop chips. Conroe is a desktop chip, and a very good one. the e6600 is rather well known for fantastic overclocking and amazing performance, one of the IT guys at work has one that did the photoshop test on cs3 in under 20 seconds.

That said, mac pros should have xeons, and a mid range tower should have a core2duo desktop chip.

cgc
Oct 18, 2007, 03:36 PM
I wonder if it'll still come with the nVidia 7300GT card...

Mozutaka
Oct 18, 2007, 03:40 PM
Oh wow, this is a pleasure to wake up to! A real, honest to God, Mac rumor, and it's the Mac Pro! Brings a tear to my eye...no wait, that's just morning gunk.

Leopard and a refreshed Mac Pro would really just make my year. I've been dying to get off this G4 iMac and start on my backlog of video editing and Photoshop projects. Just need to not die before then. :p

Amdahl
Oct 18, 2007, 03:43 PM
Adobe After Effects still does NOT utilize multiprocessors!! I have a quad 2.66 with the latest AE CS3 and Tiger installs + 4GB RAM. Just try checking that box in the prefs! It will bring your machine to it's knees! It doesn't work! I can't get any work done with it. Unchecked on a single proc seems to run previews and renders fine.

So how about fixing it Adobe?

That might be a Tiger design deficiency. Try it on Leopard and report back.

Nugget
Oct 18, 2007, 03:45 PM
Wow. I'm officially an old fart! I remember when a high end system came with 16 MB of RAM, not 16 GB! That's a 100 times increase (or is it 1000 times?) - a full order of magnitude larger!

Oh feh. My first computer had 16KB (Atari 400) -- "When I was your age we had to bang rocks together to get 1s"

Amdahl
Oct 18, 2007, 03:46 PM
The future will be all multi-threaded. Deal with it. :eek: ;)

Until it hits Amdahl's Law.

Umbongo
Oct 18, 2007, 03:50 PM
I wonder if it'll still come with the nVidia 7300GT card...

It won't, it'll likely be a low end ATI 2XXX or Nvidia 8XXX card where the priorities were power, heat, noise and how cheap they could get them.

Umbongo
Oct 18, 2007, 03:52 PM
I'm sure 85 people have already beaten me to this, but core2duo is just a marketing term for intel's high end desktop and laptop chips. Conroe is a desktop chip, and a very good one. the e6600 is rather well known for fantastic overclocking and amazing performance, one of the IT guys at work has one that did the photoshop test on cs3 in under 20 seconds.

That said, mac pros should have xeons, and a mid range tower should have a core2duo desktop chip.

Apple would likely use Core 2 Quad processors rather than dual core, otherwise you just have an iMac without a screen. Which won't happen.

whenpaulsparks
Oct 18, 2007, 03:53 PM
I hope it's 2GB stick not two 1GB sticks.

Considering the thing has 8 RAM slots, who cares? If you're buying 16 GB of RAM to fill every slot, you can afford not to care. At least it (hopefully) won't be 512MB sticks like it is now. Personally, i'm planning on going 4GB+. If the base has 2 GB, i may consider going to 8 GB, and if it has 4 GB base, i DEFINITELY will go to 8 GB. 3rd party upgrade of course, much cheaper.

As for the quiet issue, i have been in the apple store when it was dead quiet with not many people in there and i didn't hear it at all. Granted, that was in a retail environment, but that's the only time i've used one. I will be purchasing one, though, with the next revision if it has blu-ray support. If it doesn't, i still may, because my iMac G5 2.1GHz/1.5GB is a bit tired of doing HDV video editing. With leopard, my iMac will SCREAM as my general use desktop, but for video it's a bit slow.

the 1600 MHz FSB, possibility of dual quad-core across the line, 24 MB cache, and maybe (please) 1 TB hard disks is what most excites me about this.

zorinlynx
Oct 18, 2007, 03:54 PM
One of the things I love about the current Mac Pro is its case design. It's roomy, well cooled, expandable, and VERY easy to work in. Yes, it's big, but this is a GOOD thing; how many times have you had to install or remove a hard drive from a tiny cramped case?

I can't think of any negative issues with the current Mac Pro's case. Subtle tweaks and enhancements would be okay, but I don't want to see a total redesign. The Mac Pro's case is one of those things that Apple got very right.

Not to mention it's one of the few computers that can sit on the floor and survive minor flooding. ;)

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 03:54 PM
This is driving me crazy! I don't know when or if to sell my current system. I don't know if it'll sell for an amount that will allow me to buy a new one. I don't know if the new ones will be released with new displays, or whether i'll be stuck without a display for a while. Why can't Apple just announce things way in advance like normal companies?

pdxdude
Oct 18, 2007, 03:58 PM
Oh wow, this is a pleasure to wake up to! A real, honest to God, Mac rumor, and it's the Mac Pro! Brings a tear to my eye...no wait, that's just morning gunk.

Dude, it's 1:30 in the afternoon, and you're just waking up? Get a job, and get up a little earlier! ;)

bilbo--baggins
Oct 18, 2007, 04:02 PM
I wonder if it'll still come with the nVidia 7300GT card...

It will be upgraded to support up to 8 nVidia 7300GT video cards. Then nobody will have any reason at all to complain.

twitch
Oct 18, 2007, 04:16 PM
This is driving me crazy! I don't know when or if to sell my current system. I don't know if it'll sell for an amount that will allow me to buy a new one. I don't know if the new ones will be released with new displays, or whether i'll be stuck without a display for a while. Why can't Apple just announce things way in advance like normal companies?

They do announce things in advance (sortof).... we just speculate even further in advance :)

If you can't handle the emotional ups and downs we can build you a firewall that blocks appleinsider, 9to5mac, macrumors, thinksecret etc.... then you can just keep checking apple.com until products come out :-p

gugy
Oct 18, 2007, 04:20 PM
This is driving me crazy! I don't know when or if to sell my current system. I don't know if it'll sell for an amount that will allow me to buy a new one. I don't know if the new ones will be released with new displays, or whether i'll be stuck without a display for a while. Why can't Apple just announce things way in advance like normal companies?


That's how things are. It has been that way for many, many years. It won't change anytime soon.
I am waiting, once Apple announces the new machine and hopefully displays, I will buy it transfer all my files to it then sell my old system on eBay or Craigslist. Just enjoy the ride!:D

sblasl
Oct 18, 2007, 04:32 PM
Currently any configuration of the Mac Pro via the Apple Store ships in 2 - 4 days at the most. We have not heard of any distributors or retailers receiving notification of supply constraints or the "EOL - End of Life" notifications.

I think that an announcement will be forthcoming next week or on November 13 after the Intel embargo is lifted.

They will not ship immediately, Intel will have to ramp the production and Apple will have to do the assembly of the systems.

With Leopard right around the corner, it is only going to help drive additional sales of the Mac Pro line in it's current configurations, Apple will take advantage of this sales enabler for the balance of the year thereby maximizing sales of Leopard and clearing existing inventory. They will release the updated Mac Pro line in 2008.

Jade Cambell
Oct 18, 2007, 04:44 PM
Currently any configuration of the Mac Pro via the Apple Store ships in 2 - 4 days at the most. We have not heard of any distributors or retailers receiving notification of supply constraints or the "EOL - End of Life" notifications.

I think that an announcement will be forthcoming next week or on November 13 after the Intel embargo is lifted.

They will not ship immediately, Intel will have to ramp the production and Apple will have to do the assembly of the systems.

With Leopard right around the corner, it is only going to help drive additional sales of the Mac Pro line in it's current configurations, Apple will take advantage of this sales enabler for the balance of the year thereby maximizing sales of Leopard and clearing existing inventory. They will release the updated Mac Pro line in 2008.

Oh, How I would LOVE that! I hope you're right.

But my problem is that if they come out before my system is sold, then I can't afford it. I literally cannot place an order for a Mac Pro before selling my current one. I don't have the money. However, Apple would not announce new Mac Pros 2 months before they ship. So it's either: Announce in October ship in november, or just wait till MWSF and announce there and ship immedietaly.

ok13
Oct 18, 2007, 04:53 PM
lets hope they upgrade the video cards as well. 8800 GTX please.

either that or the HD 2900 XT, i always felt apple was more ATI that nVidia.

AidenShaw
Oct 18, 2007, 05:08 PM
Like some versions of Operating Systems that cannot utilize or allocate RAM above 3.2 GB.

3.2 GiB is a hardware issue, not an OS problem.

Lord Blackadder
Oct 18, 2007, 05:12 PM
either that or the HD 2900 XT, i always felt apple was more ATI that nVidia.

I wish they offered both...:)

darthraige
Oct 18, 2007, 05:31 PM
They will release the updated Mac Pro line in 2008.

I doubt that. Apple would not hold onto a chip for 3 months when it's available for anyone Mid-November. Expect a new MacPro in a few weeks.

HelloKitty
Oct 18, 2007, 05:32 PM
I think it's very likely that there will be some update of the display line as well - either a refresh or a total redesign. It definitely needs a redesign, thinner and sleeker - and is as much (over) due as the mac pro - luckily, all displays have been updated every time the mac pro has seen an update (except for one time in 2003 i think it was).

Since there has been no news regarding a new Mac Pro tower design, I do doubt that there will be a new design for the ACDs. But with the iMac being thinner and sleeker than the ACD's while it carry a powerfull computer on the inside, ACDs needs to be updated. Simple as that

Steve will also have a real screen to show off his Leopard then ;)


Exactly..I think an "All-New" Mac Pro and an "All-New" ACD is needed. Apple hasn't update the look of these two product lines for a long time.

Nevertheless, I think this is not likely to happen since there has been no related news of this kind spreading among the rumor websites..

Sigh...

MIDI_EVIL
Oct 18, 2007, 05:39 PM
My mate who works in the Apple staff canteen which is where Steve hangs out surrounded by the newest hardware, said that when he was serving Steve his pancake and nuttella, he looked inside the new Mac Pro and it had lots of processors all bunched together, with the G3 logo on each one. Said he saw 20 +.

bilbo--baggins
Oct 18, 2007, 05:48 PM
I doubt that. Apple would not hold onto a chip for 3 months when it's available for anyone Mid-November. Expect a new MacPro in a few weeks.

Especially when it's already long overdue an update. I'm sure that ordinarily they would have tried to boost sales over the last few months by a slight price drop, or better graphics cards, if it wasn't for the fact that releases like CS3 have probably made it unnecessary.

A new case design would be interesting, but for me that Mac Pro internal update compared to the PowerMac G5 is everything I need. If a smaller case means less expansion capabilities then I would be very upset - only fitting 2 hard drives into a G5 was a real inconvenience for me (it's not just having external hard drives, it's the extra power sockets, the power bricks they require etc. I buy a tower to avoid stuff like that...).

Lord Nerdos
Oct 18, 2007, 06:03 PM
I hope this update is what you guys have all been waiting for. Perhaps the rumour hysteria will finally come to an end. I fell victim to the hysteria back in FEB 2007:eek:. In fact, I cancelled my mac pro order due to the "imminent" release of the all 8-core mac pros...:p Got the dual dual core back in April after the release of the "frankenmac" showed that my sure fire conviction of an all 8-core line up at NAB would not be coming true...
I hope you get what you want guys. You have waited long... I'll be first in line to start the "mac-pro 16-core waiting club" a few years from now.

You heard it here first... "How can I be expected to pay for 2008 technology and outdated video cards etc etc I can buy a Dell with 16 cores and the latest GPUs etc etc I love the OS but I'm switching to Winblows etc etc";)

motulist
Oct 18, 2007, 06:05 PM
Oh feh. My first computer had 16KB (Atari 400) -- "When I was your age we had to bang rocks together to get 1s"

16 KB of memory? Luxury!

My dad tells me about how in the 60's he used to do programing for the government (on traffic light algorithms and what not) in machine code and they only had a few bytes (or was it bits?) of actual memory registers to work with!

bigbossbmb
Oct 18, 2007, 06:12 PM
just waiting to pull the trigger...


I can't wait to get rid of my dual G5 and load CS3 and FCS2 on my shiny new MP with five hard drives and 8gb of RAM. I still smile every time I think about those specs.

motulist
Oct 18, 2007, 06:12 PM
My mate who works in the Apple staff canteen which is where Steve hangs out surrounded by the newest hardware, said that when he was serving Steve his pancake and nuttella, he looked inside the new Mac Pro and it had lots of processors all bunched together, with the G3 logo on each one. Said he saw 20 +.

Twenty 450 mhz G3 processors will destroy a brand spankin' new 4 core 3.0 ghz machine in terms of processing power - but only for highly mutlithreaded tasks that don't gain a speed advantage from vector instruction units, which are almost none. Except perhaps compiling code! I wonder?

MacFly123
Oct 18, 2007, 06:20 PM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?

Me.... And a lot of other people in the media field. Even with only current projects on my hard drives and all others archived, I currently have 2TB filled and growing :D

netdog
Oct 18, 2007, 06:25 PM
An order of magnitude is 10x bigger ;). As 1GB is 1024MB, its over 3 orders of magnitude more.

That's 1,000 times the amount. 16,000 MBs.

AidenShaw
Oct 18, 2007, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by darthraige
I doubt that. Apple would not hold onto a chip for 3 months when it's available for anyone Mid-November. Expect a new MacPro in a few weeks.

Especially when it's already long overdue an update.

On the other hand, Clovertown (the current quad core Xeon) was announced on 11 Nov 2006 (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20061114comp.htm).

Apple finally used the processor in the octo-core Mac Pro on 4 Apr 2007 (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs/apple-gives-mac-pros-an-8+core-makeover-249511.php).

Merom was introduced on 28 Aug 2006 (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20060828comp.htm), Apple was out with the Core 2 iMac within 2 weeks, but didn't update the notebooks until a month or two after the announcements. Apple was also quite slow to adopt the Santa Rosa chipset.

suneohair
Oct 18, 2007, 06:44 PM
On the other hand, Clovertown (the current quad core Xeon) was announced on 11 Nov 2006 (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20061114comp.htm).

Apple finally used the processor in the octo-core Mac Pro on 4 Apr 2007 (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs/apple-gives-mac-pros-an-8+core-makeover-249511.php).

Merom was introduced on 28 Aug 2006 (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20060828comp.htm), Apple was out with the Core 2 iMac within 2 weeks, but didn't update the notebooks until a month or two after the announcements. Apple was also quite slow to adopt the Santa Rosa chipset.

It think it is clear that Apple cares more about consumer machines than they do pro machines, well take that back, they don't seem to care about the Mac Pro much.

Anyhow. I don't know what is going to happen here. If it is Macworld, so be it. I think it will be sooner though. I also think it is going to become less cost effective to use the current parts.

Rustus Maximus
Oct 18, 2007, 06:56 PM
Adobe After Effects still does NOT utilize multiprocessors!! I have a quad 2.66 with the latest AE CS3 and Tiger installs + 4GB RAM. Just try checking that box in the prefs! It will bring your machine to it's knees! It doesn't work! I can't get any work done with it. Unchecked on a single proc seems to run previews and renders fine.

So how about fixing it Adobe?

Assumes best Pacino imitation...

"Say hello to my little friend!"

http://www.gridironsoftware.com/NucleoPro/ (http://www.gridironsoftware.com/)

Pressure
Oct 18, 2007, 07:17 PM
I think the 45% speedup applies specifically to SSE4 optimized code.

I think more like 20% will be the norm (clock for clock), which is still quite impressive.


It applies to memory intensive applications.

Applications written specifically to take advantage of the SSE4 code could see a 100% speed improvement.

imte
Oct 19, 2007, 02:50 AM
Can I safely assume that Boot Camp will work on the new Mac Pro's?

I'm in desperate need of an upgrade, I was orignally going to go with the top of the range new iMac but I've since been convinced that with the video work I'm doing I need a Mac Pro, so I'll hold off until these new ones come out before I buy one. I'm really hoping they have some good options for the graphics cards this time around, someone already mentioned the 8800GTX, that'd be awesome!!!

On a side note does anyone use the ATI X1900XT 512MB in their Mac Pro and run games through Boot Camp, because I'm interested to know what it's performance is like. (Thanks in advance)

Mozutaka
Oct 19, 2007, 02:59 AM
Dude, it's 1:30 in the afternoon, and you're just waking up? Get a job, and get up a little earlier! ;)

Actually, it was more like 5:30 AM; I'm not in the US right now.

How the blazes could I afford said Mac if I wasn't working??? :confused:

Mac Kiwi
Oct 19, 2007, 03:58 AM
Oh ya fingers crossed for Nov release :)


Heaps faster GI and AO will not go a miss for sure.


To get the best perofrmance out of a dual quad setup {3D} do you really need a minimum of 1G per core or do the new Intel processors mitigate that now?..... the ram is just so damn expensive!

ACW
Oct 19, 2007, 04:32 AM
if those are the new mac pros, they are still huge, i would of thought :apple: will design something smaller, i mean who the ******* needs 3 TB of hardrive?


Loads of people need 3TB in certain industries. The Mac Pro is designed to meet the needs of the Pros.

slackpacker
Oct 19, 2007, 04:32 AM
either that or the HD 2900 XT, i always felt apple was more ATI that nVidia.

The new ATI cards suck Lemons compared to the NVIDIA ..... Apple Please Please Please do not limit me to some pathetic card selection.... Support the latest stuff Please.

I laughed when the "Mac Pro" was released with the 7300 as the standard option... Its like selling a Ferrari with a 3 hp engine...

slackpacker
Oct 19, 2007, 04:44 AM
Loads of people need 3TB in certain industries. The Mac Pro is designed to meet the needs of the Pros.

But I think there are many more people who don't want the limited graphics options of current Laptops and iMacs. While the graphics in Macbook Pros/iMacs are awesome for laptops ...they suck when running games in Bootcamp. All I want is a great smaller desktop with a great graphics card so I can run Bootcamp and Vista for gaming. My windows machine is getting old and this would be a great upgrade. But a less expensive model with less slots and a smaller footprint would be awesome.

Rowlander
Oct 19, 2007, 05:08 AM
Yes, finally some "official rumor" ;)

As soon as this comes out... well let me say it in the words of a great (He-)man:

I HAVE THE POWER! :D

Id really like to know what options there will be and what they are going to be prized at. I wont be able to afford a top-range mac pro but maybe a mid-range with 4 gigs of RAM. :rolleyes: My 5-year old PC will have its earned retirement at last.

iZaid
Oct 19, 2007, 05:22 AM
Loads of people need 3TB in certain industries. The Mac Pro is designed to meet the needs of the Pros.

i use alot of pro apps on a mac pro for animation and design at college but the mac pro is huge:mad:, there is just no space for it at home.

Macinposh
Oct 19, 2007, 05:47 AM
i use alot of pro apps on a mac pro for animation and design at college but the mac pro is huge:mad:, there is just no space for it at home.


Wow!
You have a very small home then?
Do you live in a cardboardbox?

Next someone is starting to whine how heavy the MP is.
And then why it doesnt have Airport or BT.
And then why it doesnt have Frontrow and remote.
And then.

netdog
Oct 19, 2007, 08:46 AM
I'd rather see all laptops updated at MacWorld leading it into the years first, most thinest (the Ultra-Thin) laptop.

In my previous experience with numerous Vaios, thin = fragile. I think the MBP is just right in its balance between thickness and ruggedness.

tk421
Oct 19, 2007, 09:04 AM
Currently any configuration of the Mac Pro via the Apple Store ships in 2 - 4 days at the most. We have not heard of any distributors or retailers receiving notification of supply constraints or the "EOL - End of Life" notifications.

I think that an announcement will be forthcoming next week or on November 13 after the Intel embargo is lifted.

They will not ship immediately, Intel will have to ramp the production and Apple will have to do the assembly of the systems.

With Leopard right around the corner, it is only going to help drive additional sales of the Mac Pro line in it's current configurations, Apple will take advantage of this sales enabler for the balance of the year thereby maximizing sales of Leopard and clearing existing inventory. They will release the updated Mac Pro line in 2008.

I guess I don't see it. Does Leopard (which costs an inexpensive $129) really drive sales of the most expensive, top-of-the-line machine Apple offers? Maybe a tiny bit. But the professionals that buy a Mac Pro generally don't need it for the 300+ Leopard features (which would work fine on an iMac) they need it for it's power to process video, animation, audio, etc.

If these folks want the new OS, most will pay $129 for that, not $2500 (or more) for a new machine.

Multimedia
Oct 19, 2007, 09:24 AM
To get the best perofrmance out of a dual quad setup {3D} do you really need a minimum of 1G per core or do the new Intel processors mitigate that now?..... the ram is just so damn expensive!I think $48.25/GB for current Mac Pro models (http://www.ramseeker.com/scripts/counter.php?http://www.omnitechnologies.biz/cgi-bin/catalog/cp-app.cgi?usr=&rnd=&rrc=N&affl=B&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=APLMP4X2GB667O&cat=emac2&catstr=) and $62.50/GB for the new 800MHz ram is not expensive unless you think they should be selling it for free. :rolleyes:

I think the ram is incredibly INexpensive and maxing the new models out to 16GB for only an extra $999 will be well worth it.

The iMac, MacBook and MacBook Pro RAM is all the way down to $37.50/GB with two 2GB sticks now at $149 sales. RAM has never been cheaper. I can't understand where you get off calling it expensive unless this is simply a case of you wanting to pay nothing for it.

netdog
Oct 19, 2007, 09:26 AM
I guess I don't see it. Does Leopard (which costs an inexpensive $129) really drive sales of the most expensive, top-of-the-line machine Apple offers? Maybe a tiny bit. But the professionals that buy a Mac Pro generally don't need it for the 300+ Leopard features (which would work fine on an iMac) they need it for it's power to process video, animation, audio, etc.

If these folks want the new OS, most will pay $129 for that, not $2500 (or more) for a new machine.

Leopard + FCS2 should use the 8-Cores much more efficiently, I would expect, than Tiger + 8-cores, never mind the fact that the new chipset and mobo are supposed to be MUCH faster precisely for things like rendering video, and you can bet that Leopard, FCS2, Aperture and eventually CS3 will be optimized for the S/S and Penryn.

Leopard, the apps and new Mac Pros are all going to work together to give Pros enormous advantages in performing exactly the tasks that you are addressing.

diamond.g
Oct 19, 2007, 09:35 AM
I think $48.25/GB for current Mac Pro models (http://www.ramseeker.com/scripts/counter.php?http://www.omnitechnologies.biz/cgi-bin/catalog/cp-app.cgi?usr=&rnd=&rrc=N&affl=B&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=APLMP4X2GB667O&cat=emac2&catstr=) and $62.50/GB for the new 800MHz ram is not expensive unless you think they should be selling it for free. :rolleyes:

I think the ram is incredibly INexpensive and maxing them out to 16GB for only an extra $999 will be well worth it.

The iMac, MacBook and MacBook Pro RAM is all the way down to $37.50/GB with two 2GB sticks now at $149 sales. RAM has never been cheaper. I can't understand where you get off calling it expensive unless this is simply a case of you wanting to pay nothing for it.
Is there any limitation on how you get to 16GB of Ram in the Mac Pro? It seems like it would be cheaper to just get 4 4GB sticks.

EDIT: Nevermind. FBDIMM really is more expensive than I remembered it being. You would also think the system would support more than 16GB of RAM. Is that an Intel limitation or an Apple one?

EDIT 2: after reading the Xserver page it may be an Apple one...

Multimedia
Oct 19, 2007, 09:38 AM
Is there any limitation on how you get to 16GB of Ram in the Mac Pro? It seems like it would be cheaper to just get 4 4GB sticks.4GB sticks cost a fortune. Resellers don't even offer them yet. :rolleyes:

diamond.g
Oct 19, 2007, 09:50 AM
4GB sticks cost a fortune. Resellers don't even offer them yet. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that was my bad. I was reading the pages wrong. Is Crucial (http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=DFB437ECA5CA7304) a reseller? They offer 4GB sticks, but they aren't cheap, and it looks like they have to be installed in pairs.

I am also noting that Crucial seems to believe that the Mac Pro can take 32GB of RAM.

AidenShaw
Oct 19, 2007, 10:03 AM
You would also think the system would support more than 16GB of RAM. Is that an Intel limitation or an Apple one?

Apple.

Seaburg supports up to 128 GiB of RAM. (http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13224)

Apple made a reasonable design decision to keep prices lower by only supporting 8 DIMM slots, so with 2 GiB FB-DIMMs that gives a current limitation of 16 GiB.

When 4 GiB FB-DIMMs are available, it is possible that Apple will up the supported limit to 32 GiB.

iMartini
Oct 19, 2007, 10:03 AM
I guess I don't see it. Does Leopard (which costs an inexpensive $129) really drive sales of the most expensive, top-of-the-line machine Apple offers? Maybe a tiny bit. But the professionals that buy a Mac Pro generally don't need it for the 300+ Leopard features (which would work fine on an iMac) they need it for it's power to process video, animation, audio, etc.

If these folks want the new OS, most will pay $129 for that, not $2500 (or more) for a new machine.

I suspect many people who were already planning to upgrade their computers (myself included) are waiting for Leopard to come out before they make a purchase. True, it's only $129, and from what I understand Mac OS upgrades are relatively painless in terms of installation (at least compared to Windows), but I think a lot of people would rather just wait a few weeks and avoid the hassle altogether... Especially if it's a professional environment where companies may be purchasing/upgrading multiple machines at a time. It won't be surprising to see a big spike in Mac sales once Leopard is available pre-installed and people seem happy with it.

Kwill
Oct 19, 2007, 10:05 AM
My Guesses: In a couple of weeks :)

Prices?
These are my GUESSES - so relax

Octo 2.33 = $1899
Octo 2.66 = $2399
Octo 3.00 = $2999

What do you think?

One model: Octo 2.66 = $2499

Everything else BTO. :cool:

AidenShaw
Oct 19, 2007, 10:23 AM
I'd like to see them do better than that. If Dell can sell a machine with a base Dual Core Xeon for $1,400, Apple should at least be able to hit $1,750.

Forget the Xeon for the low end - go for Conroe/Kentsfield and the Penryn followons.

E.g. an HP9040N (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c0115933&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN) with quad core, 3 GiB RAM, 640 GB disk, 16X DL Super-multi-drive, TV tuner, FM tuner, PVR, ... for $1150.

And it's 60% of the size of the Mac Pro Maxi-tower.

Eidorian
Oct 19, 2007, 10:26 AM
Forget the Xeon for the low end - go for Conroe/Kentsfield and the Penryn followons.

E.g. an HP9040N (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c0115933&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN) with quad core, 3 GiB RAM, 640 GB disk, 16X DL Super-multi-drive, TV tuner, FM tuner, PVR, ... for $1150.

And it's 60% of the size of the Mac Pro Maxi-tower.RAID 0? Yikes...

I'm still looking at building my own tower if it comes to it. ;)

diamond.g
Oct 19, 2007, 10:41 AM
RAID 0? Yikes...

I'm still looking at building my own tower if it comes to it. ;)
I wish hardware RAID 5 support was more common. Don't get me wrong RAID 0 and 1 are alright. But nothing beats a hardware based RAID (5+1) + (5+1). Boy EMC's SAN sure have spoiled me...

CWallace
Oct 19, 2007, 10:48 AM
Can I safely assume that Boot Camp will work on the new Mac Pro's?

Yes, but Boot Camp's "installation license" expires at like the end of the year, so if you chose to stick with Tiger, you'll need to buy your new MacPro before then.

No worries if you chose Leopard, of course, since BootCamp functionality is built-in.

kirkbross
Oct 19, 2007, 11:14 AM
Didn't the quad core Clovertown appear in the Mac Pro a month before Intel "Released" the chip wide... and... if Intel is going to "release" Penryn mid November, might Apple already have enough to ship the new Mac Pros, say, next Tuesday?

Multimedia
Oct 19, 2007, 11:17 AM
Yes, but Boot Camp's "installation license" expires at like the end of the year, so if you chose to stick with Tiger, you'll need to buy your new MacPro before then.The installation license expires next Friday. I don't see anyone in their right mind staying with Tiger since Leopard will be much more multi-core friendly in all ways. Only an incompatibility with a needed software package(s) could keep anyone back with Tiger in the installed base. Note too that the new models will not be able to run Tiger.No worries if you chose Leopard, of course, since BootCamp functionality is built-in.My point is that the choice to stick with Tiger will only rest with the current model owners. New model owners can forget Tiger ever existed 'cause it will not run on what they buy.

If you have any reservations due to specific software requirements, call the publisher and discuss Leopard compatibility now and next week to see what's really going on with what you have in Leopard vs. what they are preparing for you soon or not so soon. We always have this incongruity during system transition time. Most developers are ready. But a few choose to wait for the release before they get serious about making their software work right with it.

Trouble is when we get compelling new hardware at the same time as a system change it makes for some rocky times if what you need to make a living won't work with the new system right away. It's a lot of pressure because so many of us have waited for the new hardware. Then there's guys like me who went ahead and found an exceptional deal on a previously owned unit and bought it as insurance against exactly this scenario. :)

Alternatively the refurbished 2.66GHz Quad Mac Pros will still be available with Tiger installed & Leopard dropped in for only $2,199 for some time to come I'm sure.

Multimedia
Oct 19, 2007, 11:35 AM
Didn't the quad core Clovertown appear in the Mac Pro a month before Intel "Released" the chip wide... and... if Intel is going to "release" Penryn mid November, might Apple already have enough to ship the new Mac Pros, say, next Tuesday?That was a speed exclusive not a model exclusive. Aiden points out the whole Penryn model family is not allowed to be offered for sale until November 12 according to Intel rules.

tivoli2
Oct 19, 2007, 11:42 AM
Didn't the quad core Clovertown appear in the Mac Pro a month before Intel "Released" the chip wide... and... if Intel is going to "release" Penryn mid November, might Apple already have enough to ship the new Mac Pros, say, next Tuesday?

Although I don't believe it, the thought gives me a bit of a thrill... but... what are the chances? (read: wishful thinking):p

oop - Multimedia beat me to it. Guess that answers that!