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mim
Sep 4, 2003, 01:58 AM
Hi Guys

I'm looking at getting a refurb/2nd hand machine to use as a home server. At the moment there's a 600 Snow crt iMac and an 800 new model eMac available at about the same price.

My question is what do I get?! The iMac is what I wanted originally because it has no fan (and as a server I'd have it on all the time - I'm in a studio appartment so the fan noise is an issue).

However, at about the smae price the eMac is very appealing - just a bit faster, bigger drive, can put a superdrive in it (when I'm feeling game).

So those of you with an eMac...what's it like? How's the noise? Any other issues?

Cheers,
a.

LimeLite
Sep 4, 2003, 02:05 AM
I wasn't aware that the iMac doesn't have a fan...are you sure about that?

MacBandit
Sep 4, 2003, 02:38 AM
All iMacs have a fan. The original one has one to cool the CRT. The new one has one to just vent the heat from the entire computer compartment.

I've never heard any complaints about noise at all from any iMac or eMac.

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
All iMacs have a fan. The original one has one to cool the CRT.

It does? I must have missed it the last time I had to repair my wife's iMac G3. Actually it IS fanless. In case I really missed it, then even during the very hot summer days this year (we had up to 30C in our appartment), it never turned on...

I would always opt for the original iMac when it's used as a server only. It has a way smaller footprint and the only noise it produces is the spinning HD, which is close to none, since it sits almost in the middle of the computer, covered by all kinds of stuff. And when you tell the HD to go to sleep when not used for a certain time, it is completely silent! It is amazing!

And if you need a bigger harddrive, well just put a 120GB drive in it for 100$. The speed of the CPU should be more than enough for the minimal file serving you have in mind (1 or 2 clients, 100Mbit/s network).

The eMac HAS a fan and a fan always produces noise. And when it is quite in the room at night, you can hear everything... Believe me! I am using a Macintosh LC as a little web-server in my Home-Office and it has only that teeny tiny fan in the middle of the pizza-box case. You can hear it clearly when it is quite and I would never put it into the same room where I am sleeping at night. It would drive me nuts...

My advise... go for the original iMac.

Regards,

groovebuster

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 03:20 AM
I'm pretty sure that the later model CRT iMacs do not have a fan.

Trying to find a link now...

p.s. I wan't really asking about the fan noise being a problem...I wouldn't complain about the PC I'm using at work - but i wouldn't want to sleep near it either.

Just wondering if anyone has a similar experience with their eMac (sleeping with their computer..sheeze :p ).

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
My advise... go for the original iMac.

Regards,

groovebuster

Thanks Groovebuster, that was a great summary. Cheers!

Only one question, can the G3 iMacs use external firewire DVD burners? I don't need it to produce 'movie' DVD's - just file backups.

caveman_uk
Sep 4, 2003, 03:24 AM
Both imac and emac are pretty large machines just to be a server in a studio apartment. I don't know how loud they are but have you thought about getting a B&W G3 powermac? They're probably powerful enough for you and easier to upgrade. I don't know about US prices but there's one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2750305494&category=4607) going for 175 (about $260).

Incidently I was under the impression the CRT imac was fanless...

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by mim
Only one question, can the G3 iMacs use external firewire DVD burners? I don't need it to produce 'movie' DVD's - just file backups.

Of course you can... if there is a FireWire-plug and you are running up-to-date system software you can even plug your electric toothbrush into it... ;).

Well, my wife does the same, using an external DVD burner with her iMac once in a while. The only thing you should keep in mind is, that you can't use things like iDVD with it. But when your primary use would be doing backups of DVDs (and not producing them yourself), then you would use Toast for burning anyway, so no problem! :)

groovebuster

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Both imac and emac are pretty large machines just to be a server in a studio apartment. I don't know how loud they are but have you thought about getting a B&W G3 powermac? They're probably powerful enough for you and easier to upgrade. I don't know about US prices but there's one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2750305494&category=4607) going for 175 (about $260).

Incidently I was under the impression the CRT imac was fanless...

Hmm...you've sent me off on a tangent again - DAMN YOU CAVEMAN! :p

I think the intergrated screen of the iMac many not be a bad idea, as I'll probably spend loads of time infront of it - It'll probably end up with some kind of BSD on there.....or if it's running OSX then it may double as a digital picture frame....posibilities, posibilites.

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Both imac and emac are pretty large machines just to be a server in a studio apartment. I don't know how loud they are but have you thought about getting a B&W G3 powermac?

Weird... you think that the original iMac is bigger than a B&W G3 Powermac? Don't forget you need a monitor once in a while (for maintenance and stuff). Also fan noise was an issue, so what's the benefit of having a tower in the room that sounds like a vacuum cleaner when everything is silent at night?

Originally posted by caveman_uk Incidently I was under the impression the CRT imac was fanless... [/B]

They are...

groovebuster

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
Of course you can... if there is a FireWire-plug and you are running up-to-date system software you can even plug your electric toothbrush into it... ;).

Well, my wife does the same, using an external DVD burner with her iMac once in a while. The only thing you should keep in mind is, that you can't use things like iDVD with it. But when your primary use would be doing backups of DVDs (and not producing them yourself), then you would use Toast for burning anyway, so no problem! :)

groovebuster

Oh yes, that electric toothbrush..heheh. Thanks groovebuster, great stuff. :)

BTW, new tar is it? Can't remember what you had before.

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by mim
.....or if it's running OSX then it may double as a digital picture frame....posibilities, posibilites.

If you want to use an external DVD-Burner, you have no choice than using Mac OS X... :rolleyes:

groovebuster

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Both imac and emac are pretty large machines just to be a server in a studio apartment. I don't know how loud they are but have you thought about getting a B&W G3 powermac? They're probably powerful enough for you and easier to upgrade. I don't know about US prices but there's one here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2750305494&category=4607) going for 175 (about $260).

Incidently I was under the impression the CRT imac was fanless...

Mind you one huge benifit of this - I'd be able to add another NIC to it so I could use it as a firewall / DMZ server kinda thang.

I may hedge my bets that Panther makes it possible for Macs to use usb network cards though.

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by mim
BTW, new tar is it? Can't remember what you had before.

It's still my first one (since April this year), so no change... it's the head-stock of my favourite guitar I own. A Gibson Les Paul Custom '84. :)

groovebuster

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by mim
I'd be able to add another NIC to it so I could use it as a firewall / DMZ server kinda thang.

Routers with built in firewall functionality are so cheap meanwhile, I would always opt for something like that. But I guess that really depends on personal preferences...

groovebuster

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
Routers with built in firewall functionality are so cheap meanwhile, I would always opt for something like that. But I guess that really depends on personal preferences...

groovebuster

That would be the sensible option, but I have it in my head that I want to try my hand at a bsd firewall.

Yes, I must be crazy.

I did a quick search on the prices of 600 snows - some of them are going for about $800US! This ones a bit cheaper, and in AUD. So I may be the proud owner of my first iMac tomorrow. Hhehe. And to think I liked the beige G3's better when the first iMac's came out :p.

groovebuster
Sep 4, 2003, 03:53 AM
So good luck then! :)

caveman_uk
Sep 4, 2003, 04:43 AM
Just goes to show there is a market for a small headless mac server for home use ;)

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Just goes to show there is a market for a small headless mac server for home use ;)

Oh yes. Now if only Apple brought out "video over Airport" and released Airport enabled wireless LCD's, I'd be in HEAVEN! ARE YOU LISTENING STEVE?!

caveman_uk
Sep 4, 2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by mim
I'd be in HEAVEN! ARE YOU LISTENING STEVE?!
For a minute there I thought you were shouting at me (My real name is Steve;) ) But I guess you're calling out to Mr Jobs :D

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
For a minute there I thought you were shouting at me (My real name is Steve;) ) But I guess you're calling out to Mr Jobs :D

lol! I bet you often get that Caveman.

Steve?! Is that you STEVE? Your my wife now!

<ok, obscure reference>

Flowbee
Sep 4, 2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Just goes to show there is a market for a small headless mac server for home use ;)

The G4 Cube is a perfect choice for this. Small, fanless, and you can usually find a near mint one for less than $800.

MacBandit
Sep 4, 2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
It does? I must have missed it the last time I had to repair my wife's iMac G3. Actually it IS fanless. In case I really missed it, then even during the very hot summer days this year (we had up to 30C in our appartment), it never turned on...

I would always opt for the original iMac when it's used as a server only. It has a way smaller footprint and the only noise it produces is the spinning HD, which is close to none, since it sits almost in the middle of the computer, covered by all kinds of stuff. And when you tell the HD to go to sleep when not used for a certain time, it is completely silent! It is amazing!

And if you need a bigger harddrive, well just put a 120GB drive in it for 100$. The speed of the CPU should be more than enough for the minimal file serving you have in mind (1 or 2 clients, 100Mbit/s network).

The eMac HAS a fan and a fan always produces noise. And when it is quite in the room at night, you can hear everything... Believe me! I am using a Macintosh LC as a little web-server in my Home-Office and it has only that teeny tiny fan in the middle of the pizza-box case. You can hear it clearly when it is quite and I would never put it into the same room where I am sleeping at night. It would drive me nuts...

My advise... go for the original iMac.

Regards,

groovebuster

It appears we are both correct. All CRT iMacs have a fan up until they introduced the slot loading models. I think that is revision D iMacs. Also if you want firewire on CRT iMacs you have to get a DV model the regular models didn't come with it.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58471

Personally if you want to take up the least amount of desk space and have the most powerful Mac you can get for the money in that space I would by a Cube. They are guaranteed to be silent. They do not have a fan and they have a G4 processor. Not to mention they are easier to upgrade then any iMac or eMac. Attach a cheap 15" LCD to it and you have a good server system.

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Personally if you want to take up the least amount of desk space and have the most powerful Mac you can get for the money in that space I would by a Cube. They are guaranteed to be silent. They do not have a fan and they have a G4 processor. Not to mention they are easier to upgrade then any iMac or eMac. Attach a cheap 15" LCD to it and you have a good server system.

Oh aye, that is what I want. Unfortunately the ones I've seen recently down here have been selling for just a tad more than what I want to pay for "box to tinker with". I do have dibs on a nice hardly-ever-used one though. I can wait for that ;)

The now popularity of the cube really begs the question why Apple didn't just reduce the price of the damn things to begin with, and keep making them. They are such magic machines.

MacBandit
Sep 4, 2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by mim
Oh aye, that is what I want. Unfortunately the ones I've seen recently down here have been selling for just a tad more than what I want to pay for "box to tinker with". I do have dibs on a nice hardly-ever-used one though. I can wait for that ;)

The now popularity of the cube really begs the question why Apple didn't just reduce the price of the damn things to begin with, and keep making them. They are such magic machines.

They truly are and I would have one right now just for a second machine if I could pick up a modern one for $1000. Honestly they could sell LCD iMac without the LCD for less then $1000 if you think about the price of the screen and that little dome thing would be great though it wouldn't be upgradeable like the Cube.

pianojoe
Sep 4, 2003, 06:04 PM
My father got an Emac for (very basic) video editing, and the fan is loud. Not really loud for lab use, but loud for an appartment. You don't want this in your bedroom. Therefore:

1. Get an iMac.

2. Don't go for a model without Firewire ports.

Alternatively, get an Emac, install a temperature aware fan, maybe a quieter one, and find a way to power down the CRT when you don't need it. (It should account for most of the heat produced.)

MacBandit
Sep 4, 2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by pianojoe
My father got an Emac for (very basic) video editing, and the fan is loud. Not really loud for lab use, but loud for an appartment. You don't want this in your bedroom. Therefore:

1. Get an iMac.

2. Don't go for a model without Firewire ports.

Alternatively, get an Emac, install a temperature aware fan, maybe a quieter one, and find a way to power down the CRT when you don't need it. (It should account for most of the heat produced.)

The CRT is powered down if you put the display to sleep using the settings in the energy control pane. I'm surprised that it's isn't already a temp controlled fan.

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
The CRT is powered down if you put the display to sleep using the settings in the energy control pane. I'm surprised that it's isn't already a temp controlled fan.

The fan is under the crt. I thought it probably cools the G4 (and other bits under the monitor).

LimeLite
Sep 4, 2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
They truly are and I would have one right now just for a second machine if I could pick up a modern one for $1000. Honestly they could sell LCD iMac without the LCD for less then $1000 if you think about the price of the screen and that little dome thing would be great though it wouldn't be upgradeable like the Cube.
Upgradeable like the cube? Sorry, I have one (got quite a deal from another member here) and they're really not that upgradable. There are no PCI slots. The only thing you can upgrade internally is the graphics card, or the hard drive and CPU, with a lot of work. I'd imagine that it would be a similar amount of work to do the same to the iMac dome.

mim
Sep 4, 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by LimeLite
Upgradeable like the cube? Sorry, I have one (got quite a deal from another member here) and they're really not that upgradable. There are no PCI slots. The only thing you can upgrade internally is the graphics card, or the hard drive and CPU, with a lot of work. I'd imagine that it would be a similar amount of work to do the same to the iMac dome.

And when you get down to it, what more is there than the CPU, graphics card, and HD?

Perfect compromise for me. I think I've used a PCI slot twice in my life - and that was to add sound & a NIC.

MacBandit
Sep 4, 2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by LimeLite
Upgradeable like the cube? Sorry, I have one (got quite a deal from another member here) and they're really not that upgradable. There are no PCI slots. The only thing you can upgrade internally is the graphics card, or the hard drive and CPU, with a lot of work. I'd imagine that it would be a similar amount of work to do the same to the iMac dome.

Well it's quite difficult to get to the cpu or optical drive on an LCD iMac and also you can't upgrade the iMac video card because of the special size constraints. Where as the Cube can take a Ti4600 Nvidia. Also there are a lot of CPU upgrades for it. Honestly it is by far more upgradeable then any iMac.

LimeLite
Sep 4, 2003, 06:47 PM
I stand (mostly) corrected. But in comptuer terms, whenever I've heard about upgradeability, and expandability, PCI slots are a must. In addition, the Hard Drive on the cube can only be upgraded to 128GB. Past that, you need an external solution. As for the video card, there are only a few that fit without quite a bit of moving of parts. I'm not knocing the cube, I love it, and it's serving my purpose for it perfectly. And also keep in mind that I'm not saying that it is less upgradeable than an iMac. I'm saying that potentially, it wouldn't be any, or at leasy *much* more upgradeable than an iMac like sphere that was without a display. I'm sure if Apple were to make a displayless iMac, it would be significantly different than the iMac with the display. (Without a display on top of it, I'm sure the enclosure could be designed to open up with considerably more ease)

MacBandit
Sep 4, 2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by LimeLite
.....I'm sure if Apple were to make a displayless iMac, it would be significantly different than the iMac with the display. (Without a display on top of it, I'm sure the enclosure could be designed to open up with considerably more ease)

Agreed though the cheap and easy way to produce it would be to simply take the screen off and slightly modify the housing to hide the hole where the mount would have been.

If Apple were to design an all new headless system I think it should be a pancake make ala LCIII but should be made to stand on edge so it could hide behind an Apple LCD display.

LimeLite
Sep 4, 2003, 09:14 PM
Putting it behind an LCD display, especially sideways, would make it hard to reach the optical drive. Next to it perhaps.

Les Kern
Sep 4, 2003, 09:46 PM
iMacs are virtualy silent. eMacs are very quiet. Read last months MacAddict that compares the two. Surprisingly, feature for feature the eMac wins ... it just weighs 1400 pounds dry, not including the shipping styro.

MacBandit
Sep 5, 2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Les Kern
iMacs are virtualy silent. eMacs are very quiet. Read last months MacAddict that compares the two. Surprisingly, feature for feature the eMac wins ... it just weighs 1400 pounds dry, not including the shipping styro.

Actually it wasn't feature for feature it won. It actually won the benchmark speed tests against the iMac even though it has the old system architecture without DDR ram. The only hypothesis they had was that the eMac had a faster hard drive but they weren't able to find out and didn't want to tear it apart to find out the model.

elmimmo
Sep 5, 2003, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by mim
Oh yes. Now if only Apple brought out "video over Airport" and released Airport enabled wireless LCD's

And they'd call it van Eck Airport (http://www.google.com/search?hl=es&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=van+Eck+phreaking&lr=). Ask the NSA to handle a prototype... :D