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acj
Sep 5, 2003, 02:53 PM
This is been discussed before, but not so specifically, I think.

So what would you like to see in the next G5?

I am mostly hoping for a more versatile case.
Something that remains relatively small, but with more expansion room:
2 optical drives
3-4 hard drives, that I can choose which ones.
Even more USB ports (Iíve come to like 2 front/4rear/2internal on my PC)

Waluigi
Sep 5, 2003, 02:58 PM
Pre-installed with Panther. I know Mr. Anderson has been very vocal about that one! Another thing people might be waiting for is to see if there are defects (like fans, or the case) that only the Rev A will have problems with, but will be fixed by Rev B.

--Waluigi

mactastic
Sep 5, 2003, 03:24 PM
I'm waiting for the unknown problems that have yet to crop up to be fixed.:D

How's that for vague? Seriously though, Apple's track record with Rev.A products is not stellar. That's why there's a healthy dose of skepticism from some of us.

Rezet
Sep 5, 2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by acj
This is been discussed before, but not so specifically, I think.

So what would you like to see in the next G5?

I am mostly hoping for a more versatile case.
Something that remains relatively small, but with more expansion room:
2 optical drives
3-4 hard drives, that I can choose which ones.
Even more USB ports (Iíve come to like 2 front/4rear/2internal on my PC)

There wil not be 2 optical drives there. And case will remain very similar to this one. dont know about hdds or usbs

Tiauguinho
Sep 5, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Rezet
There wil not be 2 optical drives there. And case will remain very similar to this one. dont know about hdds or usbs


Is that internal info? Can you please explain the "case will remain very similar to this one". Is it expected that they change a product like that? I mean, in 6 months it changes design, even if by a little bit?

sedarby
Sep 5, 2003, 03:35 PM
Speed, Speed and more speed.

jxyama
Sep 5, 2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
Is that internal info? Can you please explain the "case will remain very similar to this one". Is it expected that they change a product like that? I mean, in 6 months it changes design, even if by a little bit?

well, i highly doubt anyone here would post an "insider" info. at least not a major one without hiding him/herself.

anyway, i'd imagine apple would want to stick to a very similar design in the case. it will help build form factor association with the g5. and the prev. case style lasted quite a while, except for minor front panel changes, so i imagine the general case design and dimensions will stay the same for quite some time..?

just my guess, this being a rumor site. :D

lewdvig
Sep 5, 2003, 04:34 PM
For this kind of jack the dual should have a real video card. The 9600P screams budget and the 5200 isn't even a door stop. Its SLOWER than a GF4MX.

A matching keyboard and TWO BUTTON SCROLL mouse. The Apple Pro stuff looks great but does not match the Aluminum case.

More RAM - even PC3200 DDR is cheap these days.

Two Duals and one single CPU cheapie.

Bear
Sep 6, 2003, 12:32 PM
[list=1]
Faster processors.
Second optical drive
More internal disk
More USB and firewire ports
[/list=1]

CMillerERAU
Sep 6, 2003, 01:20 PM
Coffee maker.

No seriously, I was surprised that they only put in one optical drive bay, there are a lot of people who like a second ComboDrive or internal Zip. I also enjoy having so much internal hard drive expansion in my MDD. On the other hand, looking at the internals I can see why Apple held back. With so much space devoted to cooling I guess they simply couldn't shoehorn anything more in. In that case I'll just have to settle for fast speed bumps and matching monitors.

RandomDeadHead
Sep 6, 2003, 02:41 PM
Whay are we talking about rev. b when a lot of us are still waiting for the rev. a's to arrive?:confused:

Doraemon
Sep 6, 2003, 02:51 PM
Apple is defintely not going to change the case design for Rev. B.
Therefore, there will definitely not be a second internal optical drive and I also don't think there will be more internal HDs.

But, as reported on macrumors.com it might very well be that due to the lack of a second optical drive, Apple releases an external sollution.
But re-designing the case would be way too expensive for Apple. This case has to last a couple of revisions (although I hope it won't be used as long as the 'El Capitan' case).

LimeLite
Sep 6, 2003, 03:15 PM
Guys, having a second optical drive isn't a big deal. In fact, as far as I know, when it comes to the G4's, they've only ever had space for two internal optical drives for the last year, with the introduction of the MDD model. The Quicksilvers only had room for a Zip drive. If you need a second optical drive that bad, there are plenty of external solutions. I just wouldn't count on there being a come back for the second internal optical drive. And as for the Hard Drives....are you serious? You really need 4? These are SATA drives. The G5, maxed out on HD space, can currently hold 500GB of storage, and that's only because they don't make bigger SATA drives yet, but once they do, the amount of storage will go up and up, easily making it possible to have a full TB in the G5. If you really need much more than 500GB of storage, you need a server or some other solution, not a desktop computer. And don't tell me it's for DV, becuase I edit too, and even if you took off 100GB for personal storage, you'd still have 400GB for editing, which equals over 33 hours of digital video.

Waluigi
Sep 6, 2003, 03:50 PM
Why are people saying they are waiting for 'faster processors'? Isn't the Dual 2GHz G5 a very very fast system, if not the fastest on the market? Come on, if someone is waiting for something faster, they will keep waiting and waiting forever.

--Waluigi

nixd2001
Sep 6, 2003, 04:53 PM
I'd like to see:

1) Quad CPU
2) Higher RAM speed
3) 4 SATA channels

I don't really care about a second optical drive - I just don't have the need for it. A Firewire external drive would be fine if I really needed it though.

Part of the argument for more SATA channels is speed rather than capacity - I'd like a striped RAID partition as my main partition, but I don't think you can boot from striped partitions at present. Plus it's probably complex to get this working if the system isn't initally shipped like that.

Sun Baked
Sep 6, 2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by LimeLite
Guys, having a second optical drive isn't a big deal. In fact, as far as I know, when it comes to the G4's, they've only ever had space for two internal optical drives for the last year, with the introduction of the MDD model. The Quicksilvers only had room for a Zip drive. If you need a second optical drive that bad, there are plenty of external solutions. I just wouldn't count on there being a come back for the second internal optical drive. Not only that, but the bus the old dual optical/zip drive shared was the ATA-33, FW800 should be a dandy replacement for ATA-33 or ATA-66.

Though it is nice that the G5 has the optical drive is on it's own ATA-100 chain.

ZildjianKX
Sep 6, 2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Why are people saying they are waiting for 'faster processors'? Isn't the Dual 2GHz G5 a very very fast system, if not the fastest on the market? Come on, if someone is waiting for something faster, they will keep waiting and waiting forever.

--Waluigi

It was fast back in June of 2003... four months later in October when people really start to get them, its not going to be that breathtaking, especially since AMD and Intel have some great new stuff coming out... and unlike Apple, when they hit the market, you can buy them usually ASAP.

The things I'm waiting for in a Rev B G5 is DUAL PROCESSORS. Every G5 should have duals, not just the top of the line. Also, descent standard videocards... Apple cheaped out on both of these.

GrizzlyHippo
Sep 6, 2003, 07:27 PM
Simple, I'll buy a Rev. B G5 as I bought a Rev. A G4 and have all manner of little and annoying problems. Let them fix all the bugs for the Rev. B.

Interestingly, the main things I want to know before buying are user reports on whether the G5's go to and wake up from sleep properly (unlike my G4) and how quiet they are (very unlike my G4).

The G5 Dual processor is already quick enough for me and HD space is OK - I've already got about 200Gb in FW drives that I can plug in.

Just let them learn from A and make B better :)

Grizzly

ZildjianKX
Sep 7, 2003, 07:23 PM
Are you guys expecting Rev B G5s this January?

Dont Hurt Me
Sep 7, 2003, 07:28 PM
i think they should have a single g5 & 2 models of duals or all duals. to much difference between the single 1.6 1.8 and then way out in front is the dual 2.0. this needs fixin in my simple humble yahaoo no apple store in s. carolina opinion.

plinkoman
Sep 7, 2003, 08:52 PM
a single and a dual option for every cpu speed, and more usb and fw400 ports.

seriously, why is it that no matter what, i always hear people bitching about video cards? god, is anything ever gonna be good enough for you?

Dont Hurt Me
Sep 7, 2003, 09:08 PM
you better have a good video card and cpu if you will be playing doom3- if it ever comes out.

LimeLite
Sep 7, 2003, 09:21 PM
If you need a video card that much better, opt for the cheaper option, sell it on eBay, buy one that will suit your needs. Sometimes it's not about what Apple provides, sometimes it's about the video card manufacturers making them, and making them less costly. (mac compatible versions of video cards, at least from ATI, are more expensive due to the same amount of support needed but less units being sold)

Frohickey
Sep 7, 2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
i think they should have a single g5 & 2 models of duals or all duals. to much difference between the single 1.6 1.8 and then way out in front is the dual 2.0. this needs fixin in my simple humble yahaoo no apple store in s. carolina opinion.

Huh?

Dual 1.6GHz, Single 1.8GHz and Dual 2.0GHz??? :confused:

machan
Sep 9, 2003, 09:38 AM
"Are you guys expecting Rev B G5s this January?"

My guess is that we won't see a revision until sometime next spring, maybe around WWDC or so. By then they would be able to announce the 3ghz machines and ship them in June or July. That's when I plan to buy one.

As for what I would want inside it....

- dual 3ghz
- faster Superdrive (something that reads and writes at least 2 to 3 times faster than what's around today)
- bigger hard drives (2 is enough, but I'd like to have them both be 400gb drives that I'll just partition as needed...for video editing/audio recording/etc.)
- Appleworks included on every Mac

dxp4acu
Sep 9, 2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Why are people saying they are waiting for 'faster processors'? Isn't the Dual 2GHz G5 a very very fast system, if not the fastest on the market? Come on, if someone is waiting for something faster, they will keep waiting and waiting forever.

--Waluigi

There's a simple reason: Steve told us we would get 3ghz within a year (so like 8 months from now)!!! This would be faster, and hence worth waiting...

AngryAngel
Sep 9, 2003, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by dxp4acu
There's a simple reason: Steve told us we would get 3ghz within a year (so like 8 months from now)!!! This would be faster, and hence worth waiting...

Ummm... will you keep waiting if he says they will have 5Ghz machines in one year when he annouces the 3Ghz?

It would be strange to assume that after 3Ghz the rate of clock speed increase of the G5 would suddenly drop.

There have been rumor stories talking about IBM working on 45 nm processes....

hvfsl
Sep 9, 2003, 11:14 AM
If I were waiting for Apple to release a new G5 before I got one, I would wait until rev C, that is because they would have all the problems sorted by then. Apple didnt manage to improve the situation with the paint coming off the PowerBook G4 until rev C (the 667 and 800 DVI models).

Although waiting too long can also be bad, since the rev C version of the original iMac was changed so it could not be upgraded. Rev A and B had an expansion slot for extras like 3D graphics and Firewire, while it was also posible to upgrade the cpu to about 900Mhz.

Lanbrown
Sep 9, 2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by LimeLite
The G5, maxed out on HD space, can currently hold 500GB of storage, and that's only because they don't make bigger SATA drives yet, but once they do, the amount of storage will go up and up, easily making it possible to have a full TB in the G5. If you really need much more than 500GB of storage, you need a server or some other solution, not a desktop computer. And don't tell me it's for DV, becuase I edit too, and even if you took off 100GB for personal storage, you'd still have 400GB for editing, which equals over 33 hours of digital video.

I agree. If you need more storage go with a RAID configuration and put a FC card in the G5. RAID 0 would work great for high throughput.

Nixd2001,

I would not count on a quad setup, not much market, plus the case would be quite large.

Lanbrown
Sep 9, 2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by AngryAngel
There have been rumor stories talking about IBM working on 45 nm processes....

Others are working on them as well, and the others are much larger semiconductor companies.

nixd2001
Sep 9, 2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Lanbrown

Nixd2001,

I would not count on a quad setup, not much market, plus the case would be quite large.

You're probably right, but... There's never been a competitively priced quad processor machine around to find out. If $3000 can get dual CPUs, would people pay for 4 CPUs at, say, $4500?

But I guess the absolute need for that level of performance is fairly marginal.

Maybe they'll take this the blade/Xserve route?

Or maybe I'm just too greedy?

Lanbrown
Sep 9, 2003, 02:48 PM
Wrong thinking. It is far more complex to have four processors then two. The processor as well as the chipset all need to be capable of four processors. While you can throw them in there, you get diminished returns. The old multiprocessor systems with Intel processors were horrendous. You could get 100% out of the first processor and then only 50% on the second. If you added a third, you had 25% on that. So you ended up with 175% with three processors. They have gotten much better over time, but the processors themselves have been designed with a maximum number of processors that can be used. The 970 is a 8-way design, but there would be some extensive changes in the overall system design.

AngryAngel
Sep 9, 2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
Others are working on [45nm processes] as well, and the others are much larger semiconductor companies.

So? Does the fact that other companies (who won't make Mac chips) doing research mean that IBM won't continue to increase the speed of the G5?

the future
Sep 9, 2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
It was fast back in June of 2003... four months later in October when people really start to get them, its not going to be that breathtaking, especially since AMD and Intel have some great new stuff coming out...

Yeah? What stuff?

.a
Sep 9, 2003, 05:08 PM
... it's back again ... after a long time not hearing people talking about quad G4 or now G5 ... it's back again ...
and if you think that intel and amd have some new power to present, the re. b g5 will be right at it's start (at least i hope so!)

so waht about quad g5? is it just stupid writing about it or is it something that we could hold on. what about a bigger 2U xserve with quad g5 for renderfarms - i'm sure pixar would like to get some!

i think for the rev.b of powermacs it's urgent, that all modells turn back to dual processors. right now, i look at the 1.6 like "well, nice... but that's for sure not what i want" - and if i had the money i would get a g5 (dual 2ghz)

but at all - the g5 rev.a dual 2 ghz "is a kick-ass machine!"
.a

MacMaelstrom
Sep 9, 2003, 06:21 PM
I thought of something that'd be cool... The handles on the top and bottom... They make the case taller, but nothings there. They could make little Modules that would slide in at the top to fill in that handle space. there could be a clip in the back that connected it.

nek
Sep 9, 2003, 06:57 PM
There have been rumor stories talking about IBM working on 45 nm processes....

First of all, they are not rumors, IBM stated a month ago that they are working with Chartered and Infineon to create 65nm process and "exploring extensions to 45nm technology". They've also stated in the past that they were working with AMD.

Others are working on them as well, and the others are much larger semiconductor companies.

And to address the second part: Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing is "one of the world's top three dedicated semiconductor foundries."

Now as far as Rev. B G5: The only thing I see a need for is constant improvement in speed and dual processors for mid-range or maybe across the board. I would also like to see the G5 make its way into both the PowerBook and iMac within the next year.

Mac Kiwi
Sep 9, 2003, 07:14 PM
I have decided to wait for Rev B,Why well Panthers bugs should have been worked out and optimizations for many apps will be all sorted,plus we should be able to put a decent card like a Quadro or a Fire GL in them if we choose to for 3d work.Apple might also get dual planes support sorted for these cards as well.



My 2ghz was not due until md Oct at least so I find it stoopid not waiting another 2 - 3 months and possibly getting a Rev B ordered.



Whats the delay time usually between rev A and rev B guys,about 6 months isnt it,you never know it might be just 3 months or so and the Rev B could be introduced.

Lanbrown
Sep 10, 2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by AngryAngel
So? Does the fact that other companies (who won't make Mac chips) doing research mean that IBM won't continue to increase the speed of the G5?

You make it sound like IBM is ahead of all the rest of the semiconductor companies. They are just keeping pace with the other top dogs. 45nm is far off, 90 is available with the next step to 65. IBM hasn't even acknowledged plans for a 90nm 970 chip yet.

Also, research is one thing; developing and making use of it is another matter.

Lanbrown
Sep 10, 2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by .a
so waht about quad g5? is it just stupid writing about it or is it something that we could hold on. what about a bigger 2U xserve with quad g5 for renderfarms - i'm sure pixar would like to get some!

What would the advantage of a quad processor in a 2U configuration have over a dual processor in a 1U form factor have? Since companies like Pixar use clustering, not a whole lot as you get the same number processors in a rack. The development of a dual processor is cheaper then a quad, which saves money. The volume of a dual would also be higher thus lowering costs.

Lanbrown
Sep 10, 2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by nek
And to address the second part: Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing is "one of the world's top three dedicated semiconductor foundries."


So you want to use stats. Ok.

The semiconductor rankings for the first half of 2003.

First place is Intel.
Second is Samsung.
Third is Renesas.
Fourth is Ti.
Fifth is Toshiba.
Sixth is STMicroelectronics.
Seven is Infineon.
Eighth is NEC.
Ninth is Phillips.
Tenth is TSMC.
Eleventh is Motorola.

Ti has offered 90nm since early this year and TSMC launched theirs the second quarter of last year.

All of the top fabs are close in terms of technology. Some have better technology then others and IBM is using the cheaper which is also a huge benefit because they get leading edge technology be creating partnerships. The companies that go it alone will have to spend more money, but they can also make more money. So it is hard to say what method is better, only time will tell. IBM has made great strides with its plants. I would not consider them better then the other top players though.

wdlove
Sep 14, 2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by GrizzlyHippo
Simple, I'll buy a Rev. B G5 as I bought a Rev. A G4 and have all manner of little and annoying problems. Let them fix all the bugs for the Rev. B.

Interestingly, the main things I want to know before buying are user reports on whether the G5's go to and wake up from sleep properly (unlike my G4) and how quiet they are (very unlike my G4).

The G5 Dual processor is already quick enough for me and HD space is OK - I've already got about 200Gb in FW drives that I can plug in.

Just let them learn from A and make B better :)

Grizzly

What kind of problems did you have with the Rev. A?

I spoke with a Mac Genuis yesterday about his thoughts. He said that Apple has been putting out quality products lately. Wasn't aware of any of any problems with the G5. None have been brought in for repair.

I'm also very interested in the Apple Pro Card. It is a limited time offer. Access to the Mac Genius is a very important feature. He stated that Apple plans to offer additional features in the future.

Of all the Macs that I have owned, only had one that gave me a lot of problems!

Having a real tough time making the decsion! :confused:

eyelikeart
Sep 15, 2003, 02:45 PM
I'm not getting a G5 anytime soon, there's too many other things I'm waiting on to justify the upgrade. I also am fully capable of handling the work I currently do with a G4. :D

I would wait for the Rev. B though, if I were in the market. Judging from the way Apple has pushed out models to meet the consumer demands of "newer" products, I have a very strong feeling that this G5 is just a taste of what it should be. I do feel it's a HUGE stride from the G4, but I am quite certain come January, we'll see an upgrade. I'm thinking dual processors across the board maybe?

Also, there's always room for improvement. It's sorta like buying a first year model of a car; there's always something improved upon or an issue resolved with the next version. It's too early right now to know what the downfalls are in the G5, but I wouldn't expect none. ;)

FuzzyBallz
Sep 15, 2003, 04:27 PM
1) Faster Dual G5s. Given.
2) SATA RAID-0 or -1 pre-configured w/ dual 160GB HDs.

I think the one optical drive bay is fine. Most everybody use ext. devices these days w/ either USB2.0 or Firewire. It's cleaner than having a bunch of drives internally.

wdlove
Sep 15, 2003, 07:37 PM
That is where my confusion comes in to play. The Apple Store says, yes buy know of no problems to date. **Like the idea of the Apple Pro Card a lot!

Over 100,000 G5's sold already.

Then I get advice from individuals on this forum that I highly respect. That advise to wait till after MWSF. I'm afraid that I won't get the Apple Pro Card. Not sure what the future will be then.

The comments that if you keep waiting for something better, you will end of never buying. I almost purchased a G4 at MWNY and have thought about a purchase since. Waiting for the G5 was a big factor!

Mr. Anderson
Sep 22, 2003, 10:10 AM
I'm waiting for the Rev B for a couple reason - one of which is to get any possible problems taken care of (you never know if they'll happen or not), not have to deal with waiting months to get one, have them ship the wrong one and then have them cancel the order and have me reorder it, paying $100 more, finally getting the original order and price acknowledged, and only waiting another month to get the machine (all this happened with my Rev A. G4 ordered on the first day is was offered).

Also, I've come to find out that its not able to handle dual processors, so my upgrade options are severely limited. I'm just waiting and seeing and hope to get a faster computer, better chance of having fewer issues down the road.

Also getting Panther pre-installed.

D

tomf87
Sep 22, 2003, 11:02 AM
I wish Apple would give the option of a single 2Ghz model. Later, if I decide I need SMP, then I could buy the additional proc and voltage regulator as an accessory.

All PC manufacturers do this currently, so why doesn't Apple? We have a single proc G4/533 Digital Audio at work. I would love to be able to install a second G4/533 in it, but can't do it unless I go third party.

This would sure make for a longer lifecycle, increased ROI, and wider upgrade path.

wdlove
Sep 22, 2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I'm waiting for the Rev B for a couple reason - one of which is to get any possible problems taken care of (you never know if they'll happen or not), not have to deal with waiting months to get one, have them ship the wrong one and then have them cancel the order and have me reorder it, paying $100 more, finally getting the original order and price acknowledged, and only waiting another month to get the machine (all this happened with my Rev A. G4 ordered on the first day is was offered).

Also, I've come to find out that its not able to handle dual processors, so my upgrade options are severely limited. I'm just waiting and seeing and hope to get a faster computer, better chance of having fewer issues down the road.

Also getting Panther pre-installed.

D

Are you saying that Mac OS X and Panther in particular are not able to use the Dual Processor of the G5? I'm not really concerned about having to wait 3 - 5 weeks, no problem a very patient person. Going to us the educational discount, my wife downloaded a quote from apple.com. I'm interested in having the Apple Pro Card, so I will have greater access to a Mac Genius. That way I can have help with any problem. According to the Mac Genius no problems noted to this point!

illumin8
Sep 22, 2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
What kind of problems did you have with the Rev. A?

I spoke with a Mac Genuis yesterday about his thoughts. He said that Apple has been putting out quality products lately. Wasn't aware of any of any problems with the G5. None have been brought in for repair.

I'm also very interested in the Apple Pro Card. It is a limited time offer. Access to the Mac Genius is a very important feature. He stated that Apple plans to offer additional features in the future.

Of all the Macs that I have owned, only had one that gave me a lot of problems!

Having a real tough time making the decsion! :confused:
I would skip the Apple Pro Card. Every "Mac Genius" I've ever met at a store I wouldn't consider an expert. You'll get better answers to your questions from more knowledgeable experts on this message board than you ever would in the store.

Think about it, if you were really a "Mac Genius", would you be working for minimum wage plus commission at an Apple store? I think you could make better money working in an IT shop or doing something creative with Macs.