PDA

View Full Version : Early Mac OS X Leopard Notes and Observations




Pages : [1] 2

MacRumors
Oct 26, 2007, 12:21 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the delivery of Mac OS X Leopard, there have been a number of articles detailing individual observations. Here compilation of interesting Leopard tidbits:

Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/25/weve-got-leopard-what-do-you-want-to-know/)
- No backing up with Time Machine over the drives you have connected via USB to your Airport Extreme (possible workaround (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4387985&postcount=50))
- Time Machine can backup over the network but only to AFP shares
- Syncing notes to iPhone doesn't work (yet?)

Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/liveblog/mac-os-x-leopard-liveblog-the-first-hour-315093.php)
- no R2D2 hologram effect in iChat (image (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/why-did-os-x-leopards-ichat-lose-the-star-wars-r2d2-video-effect-311636.php))
- When you unplug your Time Machine external, nothing happens, but the instant you plug it back in, Time Machine does a backup -- in the background. You never see anything, but it silently backs stuff up every time that drive is connected.
- Feels fast on a PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

David Pogue (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/technology/circuits/25pogue-email.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
- New iChat preference: the preference setting called "Watch for my name in incoming messages." It alerts you any time anyone, in any of the open chats, types your name, even if you're doing something else on the Mac.

MacWorld (http://www.macworld.com/2007/10/firstlooks/leopard_s_hidden_gems/index.php)
- Resizable partitions: Create and resize hard disk partitions on the fly in Leopard.

MacOSXHints (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20071017103600859)
- When you're viewing all of your Spaces (F8), you can press the C key to collect all the windows from all spaces into the first space. Press C again to send them back where they started.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/26/early-mac-os-x-leopard-notes-and-observations/)



pieman02
Oct 26, 2007, 12:29 AM
I like the iChat feature, so if its really important you can get the attention of whoever you're talking to - good idea!

seanmacers
Oct 26, 2007, 12:34 AM
I am getting leopard in about...13 hours hehe

balamw
Oct 26, 2007, 12:34 AM
Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/25/weve-got-leopard-what-do-you-want-to-know/)
- No backing up with Time Machine over the drives you have connected via USB to your Airport Extreme


Oh yeah? http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4387985&postcount=50

This might even help with using other network drives...

B

stoutboy1
Oct 26, 2007, 12:36 AM
I am so so Bumed that we cant use Time machine over airport extreme, my back-up drives is in another room. I hope this is something that they can and will fix real soon (tommorrow:D) please. I hope its not a hardware limitation, and someone can post a work around... Heres to hoping. :apple: your the best you can do it.

balamw
Oct 26, 2007, 12:38 AM
someone can post a work around...
A@ron already posted a workaround in the post I linked above.

B

diprest
Oct 26, 2007, 12:39 AM
What's the verdict on A2DP?

stoutboy1
Oct 26, 2007, 12:40 AM
Oh yeah? http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4387985&postcount=50

This might even help with using other network drives...

B

Oh Man that was quick, If that works you are my hero, or at least one of them. I wish it was dumed down all the way I not sure Ill be able to follow those steps. Ill give it a shot though.

Man arent these forums great.:)

Mac OS X Ocelot
Oct 26, 2007, 12:41 AM
- no R2D2 hologram effect in iChat

That's so disappointing. That was the best one.


- Feels fast on a PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

That's great to hear for me!

VicMacs
Oct 26, 2007, 12:42 AM
its gonna be a great day

balamw
Oct 26, 2007, 12:42 AM
If that works you are my hero, or at least one of them.
A@ron made the post I linked to, so thank him. Makes me actually reconsider picking it up tomorrow evening.

B

thewhitehart
Oct 26, 2007, 12:43 AM
No hologram effect? I am truly disappointed.

Yeah, it's nothing special compared to the other great innovations Leopard introduces, but it was extremely cool.

Apple shouldn't tease us with stuff they can't deliver on. The poster on Gizmodo was right, it did get a standing ovation.

Unless, of course, they were really sued by Lucasfilm...

Decrepit
Oct 26, 2007, 12:45 AM
It is impossible to study for exams with new information being posted like this.

But, if all goes well, I'll have finished my exams, picked up my copy of Leopard and have installed it by this time tomorrow.

:-)

MacsAttack
Oct 26, 2007, 12:49 AM
Somewhere it was said that the hologram effect only works on intel machines. Confirm of Deny? Anybody? If Gizmodo were running on only a G4 (which they comment on the speed), then its just one of those things that older machines can't do - like how the old G4 Mac Mini could not do ripples on dashboard.

Frankly - if that sort of thing is the largest issue people have with Leaopard then we are looking good.

BWhaler
Oct 26, 2007, 12:54 AM
That hint from MacOSX is killer.

That is the type of thing I wouldn't think of asking about until I used Spaces for awhile. Then, it would kill me to not know how to do it.

Of course Apple figured out a way to consolidate all of the windows. Brilliant...

Mac OS X Ocelot
Oct 26, 2007, 12:54 AM
Somewhere it was said that the hologram effect only works on intel machines. Confirm of Deny? Anybody? If Gizmodo were running on only a G4 (which they comment on the speed), then its just one of those things that older machines can't do - like how the old G4 Mac Mini could not do ripples on dashboard.

Frankly - if that sort of thing is the largest issue people have with Leaopard then we are looking good.

I think that's all effects in iChat, not just the star wars-y one. So if they weren't able to do the other ones they'd not mention that one and would probably be a little more confused. I'd imagine they've tried it on an intel and the powerbook just to be able to comment on the intel and ppc versions together.

bankshot
Oct 26, 2007, 12:58 AM
Speaking of notes from various reviews, I found this review from ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3775537) interesting because they say that there's no way to delete a file from Time Machine once it's backed up. The implication is that if you need to get rid of any trace of a certain file for security reasons, Time Machine won't let you truly eradicate it from all existence.

If true, this is a pretty huge oversight on Apple's part. As the review says:
Leopard has a "secure empty trash" feature that lets you throw away files so that they can't be recovered with forensic tools. What's the point of erasing a file on the hard drive and then overwriting the disk sectors seven times if Leopard is going to keep a copy of the file in the Time Machine backup?
Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Aside from that, Leopard is sounding pretty impressive. I may buy a copy around 10.5.1 or 10.5.2. ;)

Mac OS X Ocelot
Oct 26, 2007, 01:04 AM
Speaking of notes from various reviews, I found this review from ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3775537) interesting because they say that there's no way to delete a file from Time Machine once it's backed up. The implication is that if you need to get rid of any trace of a certain file for security reasons, Time Machine won't let you truly eradicate it from all existence.

If true, this is a pretty huge oversight on Apple's part. As the review says:

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Aside from that, Leopard is sounding pretty impressive. I may buy a copy around 10.5.1 or 10.5.2. ;)

That would be a pretty dumb oversight, but I don't give a hoot about Time Machine and will never use it.

SiliconAddict
Oct 26, 2007, 01:05 AM
Time Machine can backup over the network but only to AFP sharesΩ

That is a massive load of horse crap.:mad:

I have a home server that has served me well over the last 3 years when I rebuilt her. Backups via scrip has run flawlessly. I was looking forward to ditching the script for TM and simply using some of the TB of space I have available. For a time I've been considering buying an external drive just for TM, but I just had an $800+ hospital bill dumped in my lap. That isn't happening anytime soon. This better be hacked in short order, dang short. :mad:

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 01:06 AM
- no R2D2 hologram effect in iChat (image (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/why-did-os-x-leopards-ichat-lose-the-star-wars-r2d2-video-effect-311636.php))


I'm more curious as to why they got rid of the "Answering Machine" Preference in iChat 4.0 since build 9A499. I liked it, was a cool way for someone to get a video or sound away message.

JPT
Oct 26, 2007, 01:21 AM
May I be the stupid n00b and ask, "What's AFP?"? Me has no clue :D

Nermal
Oct 26, 2007, 01:21 AM
- No backing up with Time Machine over the drives you have connected via USB to your Airport Extreme

I could've sworn AirPort support was on Apple's official feature list at one point. I've just gone and emptied out my AirPort drive too!

May I be the stupid n00b and ask, "What's AFP?"? Me has no clue :D

Apple Filing Protocol, the "normal" way of sharing Mac volumes.

arn
Oct 26, 2007, 01:24 AM
I could've sworn AirPort support was on Apple's official feature list at one point. I've just gone and emptied out my AirPort drive too!

It was

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2007/10/timemachineairportdisk/index.php


Is the option to use an AirPort Disk with Time Machine no longer in the cards? Given how specific the original text was, and the fact that it’s been purged from the new page while other text remains verbatim, the change doesn’t bode well for those hoping to use an AirPort Disk for wireless Time Machine backups.

JPT
Oct 26, 2007, 01:30 AM
Apple Filing Protocol, the "normal" way of sharing Mac volumes.

May I be an even bigger n00b and ask "How is this achieved?" :p

artpease
Oct 26, 2007, 01:43 AM
Oh yeah? http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4387985&postcount=50
This might even help with using other network drives...
B

It's not nice to mess with mother nature and backups! :eek:

Since Apple removed this feature they once touted, there must be something wrong. So now we have a workaround to shoot ourselves in the foot and screw up our TM backups. Brilliant! :(

If you think so little of your data, why do you bother to back it up? :confused:

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 01:49 AM
It was

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2007/10/timemachineairportdisk/index.php

It's interesting, I spoke with an Apple guy when I was on the west coast last week about my being disappointed that Apple seems to have shelved a few highly touted Leopard features (Fast OS Switching, full resolution independence, iChat 4.0 Answering Machine option, Time Machine Airport Disk support, etc.) to make the October release, he simply shrugged and said the truth is Apple is run mostly by its marketing department. Whether the OS is polished or not, he stated the marketing department seems to call the shots at Cupertino. That surprised me, especially given Jobs' status, and I question the validity of such a statement. However, given what has happened with the iPhone release (the muck of bricking and SDK's), the bad batch of iPod Touches, and the stripping down of Leopard features over the course of the beta releases, it does make one wonder. Is Apple rushing things and sacrificing its well earned quality?

JSpence
Oct 26, 2007, 01:58 AM
Oh Man that was quick, If that works you are my hero, or at least one of them. I wish it was dumed down all the way I not sure Ill be able to follow those steps. Ill give it a shot though.

Man arent these forums great.:)

Agreed :)

giraffe6044
Oct 26, 2007, 02:03 AM
Check out what happens when you browse your network filled with windows shares

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/1754563885_476008766f_b.jpg

gr8tfly
Oct 26, 2007, 02:06 AM
Check out what happens when you browse your network filled with windows shares



Too funny! :)

Thanks!

MrFrankly
Oct 26, 2007, 02:08 AM
Check out what happens when you browse your network filled with windows shares

How childish. I hoped that the blue screen picture was only in the beta versions.

Anyway, would a Lacie Ethernet Disk with AFP work for time machine?

Evangelion
Oct 26, 2007, 02:17 AM
That is a massive load of horse crap.:mad:

I bet Apple feels REALLY sorry for you.

I have a home server that has served me well over the last 3 years when I rebuilt her. Backups via scrip has run flawlessly.

If you already have a working backup-solution that you are happy with, why do you need Time Machine? So you could whine about something?

swagi
Oct 26, 2007, 02:31 AM
It's interesting, I spoke with an Apple guy when I was on the west coast last week about my being disappointed that Apple seems to have shelved a few highly touted Leopard features (Fast OS Switching, full resolution independence, iChat 4.0 Answering Machine option, Time Machine Airport Disk support, etc.) to make the October release, he simply shrugged and said the truth is Apple is run mostly by its marketing department. Whether the OS is polished or not, he stated the marketing department seems to call the shots at Cupertino. That surprised me, especially given Jobs' status, and I question the validity of such a statement. However, given what has happened with the iPhone release (the muck of bricking and SDK's), the bad batch of iPod Touches, and the stripping down of Leopard features over the course of the beta releases, it does make one wonder. Is Apple rushing things and sacrificing its well earned quality?

I feel real sorry when reading those lines. They perfectly match my current feelings for Apple. And I can't believe, that they are so stupid. I mean, come on, if you can file class action law suits about a price drop, here is your chance to milk serious.

My current feelings regarding Leopard come down to one thing: Though I was always anxious to try out new Apple OSes, I will hesitate with Leopard 'til the dust settles. I feel perfectly fine with Tiger. It's rock solid.

And I still don't fall into the marketing hype that I NEED Spaces, Time Machine and all the other "new features".

So gunea pigs, tell me:
- Will iSync again drop support for old mobiles (like they did with Tiger)?
- May I finally have a way to tell Spotlight just to search special files, without opening System Prefs (e.g. only look in images)?
- Is there any 'new driver' found in BootCamp (which won't be supported for me poor Tiger User)?
- Is CD-burning in Finder still a PITA or can I finally throw Toast off?

Thanks for all your testing. ::cool:

nagromme
Oct 26, 2007, 02:33 AM
Awesome! Time Machine can share a drive with other data!

So in addition to my "main" Time Machine backup, I intend to also have my very MOST important files (calendar, selected projects, current quotes and proposals, maybe some mail) backed up onto my iPod whenever I synch my music/photos :) I will then have one extra backup, plus I can peruse those files from any Mac.

Let the iPhone browse files stored on it and I would be in heaven (given that you can browse Time Machine backups just like any other files, in Finder, not just in the Time Machine mode).

the.snitch
Oct 26, 2007, 02:35 AM
"When you unplug your Time Machine external, nothing happens"

by "nothing happens", does he mean the OS doesn't bitch about you unplugging and not ejecting first, or the OS doesn't tell you that Time Machine wasn't done yet?

Hopefully the former, meaning we can unplug drives without ejecting, like you can unplug the iPhone.

GreatDrok
Oct 26, 2007, 02:44 AM
Where the heck is my transparent menu bar? I really wanted to be able to complain about it and it isn't transparent! OK, so this is a bare minimum machine (iBook G4 933Mhz) but is it really that difficult? The menus are all transparent so why not the menu bar?:eek:

the.snitch
Oct 26, 2007, 02:50 AM
That is a massive load of horse crap.:mad:

I have a home server that has served me well over the last 3 years when I rebuilt her. Backups via scrip has run flawlessly. I was looking forward to ditching the script for TM and simply using some of the TB of space I have available. For a time I've been considering buying an external drive just for TM, but I just had an $800+ hospital bill dumped in my lap. That isn't happening anytime soon. This better be hacked in short order, dang short. :mad:

You know why it's not supported right? The Drive needs to support Hard-links, eg an HFS+ volume. If its just a plain ol' Fat32/NTFS drive you have on you homebuilt server, there's no way its going to work.

Hardlinks to files are how when browsing the Time Machine volume, there are folders labelled by time/date, and each folder magically contains a FULL IMAGE of your computer at that time. The files in all these folders are actual files (not aliases), but all point to the same location on the disk. In order for the data on the disk to disappear, all the hardlinks must be erased.

No windows hard-drive format supports Hard-links, and the Finder hides this capability out of sight because of the large potential to create "chicken and egg" type situations. eg imagine making a hard link from a child folder to its parent folder, creating some weird recursive loop.

Virtual File Systems such as SMB dont support hard-links either. That's why it MUST be a HFS drive over the AFP protocol, and why the posted workaround works.

jimc
Oct 26, 2007, 03:09 AM
So gunea pigs, tell me:
- Will iSync again drop support for old mobiles (like they did with Tiger)?
- May I finally have a way to tell Spotlight just to search special files, without opening System Prefs (e.g. only look in images)?
- Is there any 'new driver' found in BootCamp (which won't be supported for me poor Tiger User)?
- Is CD-burning in Finder still a PITA or can I finally throw Toast off?

Thanks for all your testing. ::cool:

Not sure about the rest but for Spotlight... yes. Use kind:image, kind:pdf, etc in your search.

HTH

Whoshnot
Oct 26, 2007, 03:49 AM
That hint from MacOSX is killer.

That is the type of thing I wouldn't think of asking about until I used Spaces for awhile. Then, it would kill me to not know how to do it.

Of course Apple figured out a way to consolidate all of the windows. Brilliant...

It is very useful but it looks very cool too!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2261/1755655151_8a783f4664.jpg?v=0

The transition is slow when you hold shift so I was able to make this screenshot. Basically it looks like exposé but then trough different spaces.

tyr2
Oct 26, 2007, 04:21 AM
To those wanting to use SMB with time machine, it MAY work if you create a disk image on the SMB share then use that as the time machine drive. That's how I manage an Aperture vault on an SMB share.

Total speculation on my part at the moment though.

bentoms
Oct 26, 2007, 04:24 AM
That is a massive load of horse crap.:mad:

I have a home server that has served me well over the last 3 years when I rebuilt her. Backups via scrip has run flawlessly. I was looking forward to ditching the script for TM and simply using some of the TB of space I have available. For a time I've been considering buying an external drive just for TM, but I just had an $800+ hospital bill dumped in my lap. That isn't happening anytime soon. This better be hacked in short order, dang short. :mad:

Hey SiliconAddict,

If your running a M$ server you can install services for Macintosh & reshare you SMB volumes via AFP.

Hope that helps!
Ben.

xUKHCx
Oct 26, 2007, 04:26 AM
It is very useful but it looks very cool too!
The transition is slow when you hold shift so I was able to make this screenshot. Basically it looks like exposé but then trough different spaces.

That Spaces hint is genius will definitely be using that.

Darkroom
Oct 26, 2007, 04:43 AM
i can't get into spaces... can't feel comfortable... i'm just too use to hot cornering exposé

geeman
Oct 26, 2007, 04:45 AM
Can someone with PhotoShop CS3 please give the definitive answer as to whether it runs fine under Leopard?

I've read some stories saying that the CS3 apps may require an update from Adobe.:eek:

nagromme
Oct 26, 2007, 04:52 AM
A good site for tracking which apps are Leopard-ready is (historically) http://macintouch.com

mackiwi
Oct 26, 2007, 04:59 AM
first I was dissapointed not to get time machine airdisk support, but now after installing leopard my macbook refuses to connect to my airdisk at all.

knew i should have waited before installing - us kiwis are the quinea pigs today.

Coverflow/quick look in the finder is frickin awesome however!!!

installation on my macbook took just over one hour, with airdisk being the only problem I have come across, except for Mail crashing on first attempt.

- Leopard purchased at 6.02pm, friday 26th october 2007.

the.snitch
Oct 26, 2007, 05:04 AM
- Leopard purchased at 6.02pm, friday 26th october 2007.

My mates copy of leopard arrived in his box this morning (I'm in NZ too), seems Apple doesn't seem to care so much about the exact release time up to the minute here

arcanic
Oct 26, 2007, 05:06 AM
Does anyone know if .Mac users will be able to use Time Machine to backup to our online drives? I don't have a need for a USB drive at the moment.

The whole reason I purchased .Mac was for the ease of backup through Tiger.

Thanks all!

Arc

Diatribe
Oct 26, 2007, 05:07 AM
I'm more curious as to why they got rid of the "Answering Machine" Preference in iChat 4.0 since build 9A499. I liked it, was a cool way for someone to get a video or sound away message.

Yeah, there are a couple of features that would have been awesome. This being one of them. Oh well only thing we can do is leave feedback.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

I just sent them some. I want this feature.

lelereb
Oct 26, 2007, 05:10 AM
Check out what happens when you browse your network filled with windows shares

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/1754563885_476008766f_b.jpg

funny but childish

lelereb
Oct 26, 2007, 05:21 AM
In one of the posted image there is a 100% opaque menubar. It's a Leopard image with graphite look&feel. Graphite has opaque menubar?

pubwvj
Oct 26, 2007, 05:44 AM
Oddly, the Time Machine I used was limited to the years 1946 through 2000. It also won't backup to the future. But I found a work around for that - you have to go in forward.

swagi
Oct 26, 2007, 06:04 AM
Check out what happens when you browse your network filled with windows shares


Yeah, brilliant. Will please the Mac fanboys, but will definitely not help in the enterprise market.

I mean, come on, as an insider joke in the devloper build it was funny, but maybe they should've just added some default Win XP/Vista logo. Heck, even a stupid wooden window wouldn't be that embarassing.

twoodcc
Oct 26, 2007, 06:04 AM
alright. looking forward to getting it tonight

Project
Oct 26, 2007, 06:13 AM
Yeah, brilliant. Will please the Mac fanboys, but will definitely not help in the enterprise market.

I mean, come on, as an insider joke in the devloper build it was funny, but maybe they should've just added some default Win XP/Vista logo. Heck, even a stupid wooden window wouldn't be that embarassing.


Wow... lighten up will you. Its a funny joke. Nothing more, nothing less.

ltcol266845
Oct 26, 2007, 06:22 AM
[url=http://www.macrumors.com][img]
- Feels fast on a PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

That's interesting, because I feel like it runs slower on my MBP 2.2GHz...

thejadedmonkey
Oct 26, 2007, 06:23 AM
That's interesting, because I feel like it runs slower on my MBP 2.2GHz...

Wait for spotlight to finish indexing :)

blackcrayon
Oct 26, 2007, 06:24 AM
I guess at some point Time Machine also supported encrypted backups (apple had written it on their time machine page some time ago, guess it got snipped). I was trying to backup to an encrypted disk image over AFP but it wouldn't be recognized. Maybe I'll try that airport disk workaround :)

Also, it seems Time Machine needs an AFP share hosted from a *Leopard* client (or Xsan or OS X Server), and won't work to a remote AFP share on an earlier Mac OS X client... Has this been anyone else's experience as well? (Apple states Leopard, but it is a little unclear if they mean ONLY Leopard).

MattG
Oct 26, 2007, 06:40 AM
Very cool...I'm excited! Mine's on the truck -- says it'll be here by 10:30! Unfortunately I can't install it until I get home but still!

MrFrankly
Oct 26, 2007, 06:46 AM
Also, it seems Time Machine needs an AFP share hosted from a *Leopard* client (or Xsan or OS X Server), and won't work to a remote AFP share on an earlier Mac OS X client... Has this been anyone else's experience as well? (Apple states Leopard, but it is a little unclear if they mean ONLY Leopard).

So an external 3rd party NAS with AFP support will not work?

pasito
Oct 26, 2007, 06:47 AM
Yay, OS X 10.5 turned up a few hours ago at my house.

I'll be in happy install land when i get home tonight. :) :) :):cool:

BornAgainMac
Oct 26, 2007, 06:48 AM
I can understand the Time Machine backup over Airport Extreme. Since it is backups, they might have had some issues with multiple Macs backing up at the same time, performance, or small percentage of corrupt backups. Perhaps a third party vendor will come up with a solution.

The hologram feature was surprise to see it missing. Lucas was probably still sore at Jobs for buying Pixar for only $10 million. Hopefully third-party vendors will provide plug-ins for this too.

Anyone knows if they took out the George Washington iChat feature? Where you can do lip sync with your favorite image?

gmanrique
Oct 26, 2007, 07:02 AM
This are things that magically have disapeared from previous builds or product specs in Apple's website.

So far:

- Support for Airport Drives in Time Machine
- Answering Machine from iChat
- Fast OS switching
- R2D2 effect from iChat
- Notes sync option with iPhone

anything else?

stevenz
Oct 26, 2007, 07:10 AM
As near as I can figure, Apple have removed the bluetooth cellphone functionality from Addressbook. This is annoying as I used it for SMS. Have they moved it elsewhere? I can't find it anywhere.

Leopard also seems to be using around 300MB more RAM than 10.4.10 did while running the same apps (albeit the newer versions). Is this normal or has something gone wrong with my upgrade?

Stacks are annoying too, I prefer being able to right-click on my Applications directory alias and go through the tree to the app I wanted rather than only having immediate access to the top level and having to open a finder window for anything in a folder.

It looks pretty though. AVRCP/A2DP finally working fully is a bonus, as is being able to send files to a bluetooth device via the Right-Click menu. Screen sharing is also good, not needing to use Apple Remote Desktop is a boon.

aLoC
Oct 26, 2007, 07:11 AM
I've been using it for about 4hrs now. It's 10pm Friday here in Australia and it went on sale 4 hours ago.

The single most noticeable thing is the speed. Application launch and quit time is much improved. Safari renders web pages much faster. Video windows resize very smoothly. Spotlight is much faster than Tiger.

I can confirm that the Terminal trick to get the black dock to appear on the bottom works.

Software Update isn't working, it brings up the error message "The file 'index-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog' could not be found on the server swscan.apple.com."

crackermac
Oct 26, 2007, 07:40 AM
- Feels fast on a PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

Excellent, I'm running a 1.25GHz. I hope mine will be fine.

sparkyms
Oct 26, 2007, 07:48 AM
safari seem snappier?

aqua scrollbars make me :(

KershMan
Oct 26, 2007, 07:50 AM
Mine just arrived at home! And I am at work :-( Cough, cough, I think I am coming down with the flu and need to get outta here...

Half Glass
Oct 26, 2007, 07:56 AM
This are things that magically have disapeared from previous builds or product specs in Apple's website.

So far:

- Support for Airport Drives in Time Machine


This is really really disappointing!! One of the main reasons I bought the overpriced AirPort Extreme was for Time Machine backups without the need for another Mac.

Ugh, the more I read the less excited I am getting about my copy arriving in the next 90 minutes.

--HG

balamw
Oct 26, 2007, 07:57 AM
If you think so little of your data, why do you bother to back it up? :confused:

You assume too much. Who says TM is the only backup? Is it better to have an unsupported backup vs. no backup? Convenience is a big deal.

I definitely hope that Apple is planning on making this a supported configuration, even if it means a new version of AEBS hardware.

B

jackc
Oct 26, 2007, 07:58 AM
Resizable partitions? Pretty sweet!

avalys
Oct 26, 2007, 08:10 AM
I'm guessing Apple cut these features to meet the ship date, and they'll show up in a 10.5.x update pretty soon.


he simply shrugged and said the truth is Apple is run mostly by its marketing department. Whether the OS is polished or not, he stated the marketing department seems to call the shots at Cupertino. That surprised me, especially given Jobs' status, and I question the validity of such a statement. However, given what has happened with the iPhone release (the muck of bricking and SDK's), the bad batch of iPod Touches, and the stripping down of Leopard features over the course of the beta releases, it does make one wonder. Is Apple rushing things and sacrificing its well earned quality?
Psst - Jobs is a marketing guy. He's not an engineer. Imagine the colossal bitching if Apple announced Leopard was delayed again, even for just a week or two? It's much, much better to simply ship Leopard as polished but missing a few features, and add them in later.

arbroathsmokie
Oct 26, 2007, 08:18 AM
Has anyone else have problems with "Software Update..."?

I keep getting an error message on both my G5 and Macbook, it goes as follows: -

The file “index-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog” couldn’t be found on the server “swscan.apple.com”.

I take it, it's something to do on Apple's side?

guzhogi
Oct 26, 2007, 08:30 AM
Apple removed the hologram (and the other effects that change how you look & not the background) is awful They're so fun. Hopefully they'll be back in 10.5.1 or as a 3rd party thing. I also like the upside down one and the ones they showed at WWDC (or was it MWSF?) where it was the picture of a famous person and has your mouth. "This is the only way we can get Steve Balmer." That was hilarious.

Greg McBride
Oct 26, 2007, 08:36 AM
Hypercard and MacPaint sure are snappier! :)

MacBoobsPro
Oct 26, 2007, 08:41 AM
So I did a clean install and allowed Time Machine to backup to my external FireWire drive. It had 11GB to back up (obviously just Leopard). It has taken ages to get to 11GB transfered and then it starts adding more? It now says 15.9GB of 15.9GB and any second it will go to 16GB of 16GB. What gives? Its been going for ages!

EDIT: Oh wait I figured it out. I installed iLife as it was backing up so its probably adding that onto the end.

I'm on a PMG5 Dual 1.8 and Spotlight is INSTANT!

One bad thing I have noticed is that finder coverflow only seems to show extremely low res versions of images? I mean pixelated to friggery.

Moses
Oct 26, 2007, 08:42 AM
Woo, Fedex just delivered here in Manhattan.

Popeye206
Oct 26, 2007, 08:46 AM
I just got my copy of Leopard!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

Now for the fun! It's soooo pretty! LOL!

hob
Oct 26, 2007, 08:47 AM
bahhhhhhhhhh

TNT have screwed me over! Apple says "shipment delayed" and their page says "Please call" - so I did, and they're looking into whether it's left the depot yet... sweet. :rolleyes:

CommodityFetish
Oct 26, 2007, 08:54 AM
This are things that magically have disapeared from previous builds or product specs in Apple's website.

So far:

- Support for Airport Drives in Time Machine
- Answering Machine from iChat
- Fast OS switching
- R2D2 effect from iChat
- Notes sync option with iPhone

anything else?

Someone should track these in the MacRumors Guides/Wiki - features promised/rumored but not delivered, and see if they show up in later upgrades.

Seems like there were some from Tiger that still haven't arrived:

metadata

oh, and what about the rumored resolution independence?

izzle22
Oct 26, 2007, 08:59 AM
Just got mine 15 min ago installing on PowerMac G5 right now. Says about 30 min left. Just doing upgrade.

dogcowabunga
Oct 26, 2007, 08:59 AM
How childish. I hoped that the blue screen picture was only in the beta versions.

The "blue screen" image on Windows network shares is not just "childish" -- it violates some rather basic principles of user interface design. A monitor displaying a BSOD is giving users a visual cue that the network share is somehow broken, perhaps untrustworthy if not entirely inaccessible.

It would indeed be useful if CoverFlow could distinguish between healthy and broken network shares, and given Apple's usual attention to detail one might naturally assume the BSOD was an example of this detail, rather than just a childish poke at a rival.

Of course, if M$ wants to follow suit, the next release of Windows can show 90 percent of the world's computer users that a Mac share is a funny-looking TV screen with a bomb icon on it, or that it's a kernel panic. Would Mac users appreciate the joke if it were turned in their direction?

Avatar74
Oct 26, 2007, 09:02 AM
Some very big things for me...

Resizable partitions. As someone who does some pretty large video and audio projects, this is going to be HUGE for me. Traditionally when preparing for a project I've had to back up an entire drive and then set the project partitions for scratch files and final output. Big PITA.

They observe this is snappy on a Powerbook (not Macbook) 1.33GHz? I have a 1GHz G4 Powerbook and I imagine it'll be pretty snappy there as well... I've always been impressed by Apple's ability for the OS to run smoothly on a wide range of machines. I don't think the same can be said of Windows XP.

Time Machine... One reporter observed that people are very disinclined to do backups because of the cumbersome nature of keeping regular backups. Time machine makes it so ridiculously simple, effortless and, *GASP* actually fun to use that we should be seeing fewer and fewer people freaking out about losing data. Brilliant stroke, Apple.

Notes/To-Do's ... Ok I know that it looks like no synch yet with iPhone but what's required is probably a forthcoming update to the iPhone OS to enable this feature. I can't imagine them not doing it. But here's the big kicker for me... I am irritated by the design of most to-do's where they are inextricably tied to one application. What if I'm writing up a project summary and I want to put my to-do's in that document? Well, you can make bullet lists sure but Apple went one very logical step further by having to-dos in any e-mail synch back to the global to-do list in your calendar. This is a small but brilliant innovation that, believe it or not, is the main cincher why I'm upgrading to Leopard today.

I'm computer-centric... my office desk has NO paper, none. Everything I do is on the computer and I try to use it to improve my time management, but the separation of text editors and to-do lists as distinctly unrelated applications has annoyed the hell out of me for years. I basically do not use to-dos because in Outlook I have to go back to the task list every time I want to update it or check my tasks. Reminders in Outlook annoy me because they eventually pile up. Being able to manage these on my Mac and, hopefully, synch it all with iPhone, will be a big improvement in my time management tools.

SiliconAddict
Oct 26, 2007, 09:08 AM
I bet Apple feels REALLY sorry for you.



If you already have a working backup-solution that you are happy with, why do you need Time Machine? So you could whine about something?


Because that working backup solution does complete backups every time it runs. Do you know how much space that takes up? TM does not do this. :rolleyes:

Hey SiliconAddict,

If your running a M$ server you can install services for Macintosh & reshare you SMB volumes via AFP.

Hope that helps!
Ben.

It does. :eek: I'm running Server 2003. I didn't know this. Thank you very much! :)

jackc
Oct 26, 2007, 09:11 AM
Here's the description on resizing partitions from the Apple page. What does that mean, you have to delete the volume that comes after it? Does that mean you need an empty partition to delete in order to resize another one?


"Live Partition Resizing in Disk Utility

You may be able to gain disk space without losing data. If a volume is running out of space, simply delete the volume that comes after it on the disk and move the volume’s end point into the freed space."

raftr
Oct 26, 2007, 09:13 AM
What's the verdict on A2DP?

I will rephrase that:
What's the verdict on A2DP?

Is audio over bluetooth enabled, like it's been for years in other systems or they still want everyone to buy airport and use airtunes only?

CommodityFetish
Oct 26, 2007, 09:13 AM
http://guides.macrumors.com/Leopard

Ok, I wiki'd the missing features listed above. Someone who knows better than I may want to categorize them as: rumored, marketed, present in developer builds, etc... :D

TMay
Oct 26, 2007, 09:16 AM
Can anyone verify if Blu-Ray support is in Leopard?

CrzyCanuck72
Oct 26, 2007, 09:16 AM
does httpmail still not work with Leopard? I can't get Leopard until httpmail is working..

MonkeyClaw
Oct 26, 2007, 09:18 AM
The "blue screen" image on Windows network shares is not just "childish" -- it violates some rather basic principles of user interface design. A monitor displaying a BSOD is giving users a visual cue that the network share is somehow broken, perhaps untrustworthy if not entirely inaccessible.

It would indeed be useful if CoverFlow could distinguish between healthy and broken network shares, and given Apple's usual attention to detail one might naturally assume the BSOD was an example of this detail, rather than just a childish poke at a rival.

Of course, if M$ wants to follow suit, the next release of Windows can show 90 percent of the world's computer users that a Mac share is a funny-looking TV screen with a bomb icon on it, or that it's a kernel panic. Would Mac users appreciate the joke if it were turned in their direction?

The thing is we dont get kernal panics, I've had a mac for 3 or 4 years now and before that windows since 3.1. I have never once encountered a kernal panic or really even a problem that required a reboot. I used ME and well that was a mistake. Internet Explorer even caused a reboot. XP was much better but still bout once a month i would get a blue screen. So while its childish, it isn't a terrible thing because its mainly true.

aLoC
Oct 26, 2007, 09:25 AM
Can anyone verify if Blu-Ray support is in Leopard?

It's not, best I can tell.

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 09:29 AM
Because that working backup solution does complete backups every time it runs. Do you know how much space that takes up? TM does not do this. :rolleyes:



It does. :eek: I'm running Server 2003. I didn't know this. Thank you very much! :)
What kind of cheeseball backup are you running then. Use some type of RSYNC variant and after the initial sync, every night will literally take minutes to backup. If you want something that can be restored by a daily schedule, use incremental backups. Who does full backups anymore, honestly.

appie57
Oct 26, 2007, 09:30 AM
Just arrived here!:)

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 09:31 AM
Resizing volumes has been around since forever in every major OS. Diskpar and Diskpart allows you to easily expand logical volumes in NT and onward. Not to mention every unix and linux variant with a logical volume manager.

psychofreak
Oct 26, 2007, 09:32 AM
Resizing volumes has been around since forever in every major OS.

Live volume resizing was not built into Tiger...

JW008
Oct 26, 2007, 09:36 AM
Mine just arrived about ten minutes ago and I just started my erase and install! It's checking the installation DVD now for "consistency."

The menu bar doesn't look very translucent to me. Maybe it's just the space background. But everything in the menus looks a whole lot "cleaner."

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 09:36 AM
Live volume resizing was not built into Tiger...
Exactly my point.

lazyrighteye
Oct 26, 2007, 09:38 AM
I like the iChat feature, so if its really important you can get the attention of whoever you're talking to - good idea!

Maybe I will have to see it in action, or maybe my IM habits are abnormal, but I don't use people's names when iChatting.

"Thanks for sharing that clip on YouTube, Randy."
"It's one of my favs, Bill."

??

Again, might need to see in action.

Stadsport
Oct 26, 2007, 09:39 AM
What's the verdict on A2DP?
It's been working fine since 9A466.
Somewhere it was said that the hologram effect only works on intel machines. Confirm of Deny? Anybody? If Gizmodo were running on only a G4 (which they comment on the speed), then its just one of those things that older machines can't do - like how the old G4 Mac Mini could not do ripples on dashboard.

Frankly - if that sort of thing is the largest issue people have with Leaopard then we are looking good.
It has nothing to do with intel or not, it's just been removed from Photo Booth.

i can't get into spaces... can't feel comfortable... i'm just too use to hot cornering exposé
So set a hot corner for Spaces. Also, Spaces is only good if you bind applications to it.

Can someone with PhotoShop CS3 please give the definitive answer as to whether it runs fine under Leopard?

I've read some stories saying that the CS3 apps may require an update from Adobe.:eek:
As I and others have said in other threads, it works fine.

In one of the posted image there is a 100% opaque menubar. It's a Leopard image with graphite look&feel. Graphite has opaque menubar?
The menubar changes depending on your wallpaper. It's also just a png you can replace last I heard.
Can anyone verify if Blu-Ray support is in Leopard?
Uh, didn't it work in Tiger?
Resizing volumes has been around since forever in every major OS.exe. Diskpar and Diskpart allows you to easily expand logical volumes in NT and onward. Not to mention every unix and linux variant with a logical volume manager.
Yeah, you just have to format them.

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 09:40 AM
Yeah, you just have to format them.
No, you don't. Granted it's formatting the extra volume information when you add it, but you do not have to do that. You don't even have to initialize the partition first.

SiliconAddict
Oct 26, 2007, 09:44 AM
The thing is we dont get kernal panics, I've had a mac for 3 or 4 years now and before that windows since 3.1. I have never once encountered a kernal panic or really even a problem that required a reboot. I used ME and well that was a mistake. Internet Explorer even caused a reboot. XP was much better but still bout once a month i would get a blue screen. So while its childish, it isn't a terrible thing because its mainly true.

Bullcrap. Last year along I had 4 KP's within the first 6 months of owning my Mac. One that I could consistently do over and over again. Example. Paint shop Pro in windows makes a file that stores all of its thumbnails in. These files are useless to me so when I migrated my picts (About 5K of them.) over to iPhoto I wanted to remove these files because all told it was taking up about 100MB of space. Using Spotlight I searched for these files. :apple: - A and dragged them into the garbage can. Small problem. Spotlight can find items IN the trash. So what I'm assuming ended up happening was that as it deleted the files from my profile it showed up in spotlight in the trash can and went into a loop. BAM. Instant KP every time. I've also had them on network shares while at work. Had them with early versions of Parallels. And even had then on a couple apps. That being said that was the first 6 months of owning my MBP in Feb of 06. From Fall of last year to present I haven't had a single KP. However I can count the number of crashes I've had in Windows over the last 7 years on XP with one hand. And freezing and BBoDing is still a problem. Just because the OS doesn't outright crash doesn't mean it can't be incapacitated.

This happened at the beginning of the month....

http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/OSXSucksAss.jpg

So I went to reboot into Windows to do some gaming and I get this on shutdown...Oh and yes I do see what is going on behind the scenes. I enabled verbose mode earlier this year so I can see what is going on. Basically i stops processing after it says continuing. At which point I can type whatever I want . the OS just sits there.

maknik
Oct 26, 2007, 09:53 AM
So just to confirm: not only will Time Machine not work on my nice cheap NAS drive (which I believe is SMB; at least, that's what the get-info says), but it's very unlikely to ever work on it, is that right?

That's sad -- that was the feature I was most looking forward to in Leopard. If I have to remember to connect my laptop directly to a hard-drive to backup, that kind of defeats the whole appeal of the automated, guaranteed backup system that TM offers.

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 09:57 AM
The Windows crashing argument is a bunch of a baloney. Granted 98/ME were not the hottest OS's. But everything from 2000 and beyond has been rock solid. Beyond the first month or so when XP was released, with poor driver support causing crashes, the OS has been absolutely rock stable. As part of the IT staff, I can not even tell you the last time, I've seen or heard of a report, of any one of our 100's of XP/2000 machines crashing in the office.

dpfenninger
Oct 26, 2007, 09:59 AM
Anybody know if Leopard has Quartz 2D Extreme finally enabled? (note, this is not regular Quartz Extreme that's been in OS X for a long time, this is the 2D interface part of the graphics layer that was supposed to be offloaded to the GPU starting with Tiger, but was not activated due to being too buggy)

For more info:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14

Anyone know?

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 10:00 AM
So just to confirm: not only will Time Machine not work on my nice cheap NAS drive (which I believe is SMB; at least, that's what the get-info says), but it's very unlikely to ever work on it, is that right?

That's sad -- that was the feature I was most looking forward to in Leopard. If I have to remember to connect my laptop directly to a hard-drive to backup, that kind of defeats the whole appeal of the automated, guaranteed backup system that TM offers.
Yeh that's difficult to remember. You must forget to plug in the monitor and mouse too. Nothing is "guaranteed" anyhow, especially if you aren't doing some type of offsite backups with tape/hdd etc.

Like others have stated, use AFP. Or better yet, you can connect your machine to an iSCSI SAN.

brsboarder
Oct 26, 2007, 10:08 AM
I think the thing I hate most is that you can't change the opacity of things. This whole see-through thing sucks. Quick View should be solid. It does nothing to make it translucent, but is distracting

age234
Oct 26, 2007, 10:09 AM
Just to check, is Classic gone in Leopard? Or is it still installable like in Tiger but not included?

AidenShaw
Oct 26, 2007, 10:11 AM
No windows hard-drive format supports Hard-links,.

Wrong - NTFS supports hard links.

There's an API (WIN32 CreateHardLink) and a command line utility (fsutil) to create them.

See http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4365903&postcount=587

Project
Oct 26, 2007, 10:13 AM
Cant you just create a sparseimage on your NAS drive and have Time Machine backup to that?

oceanmonster
Oct 26, 2007, 10:14 AM
Does anyone think that the scroll bars will be replaced in one of the 10.5.x updates. It seems weird that they went to the trouble of making itunes different, and not including it in the final release.

Cameront9
Oct 26, 2007, 10:14 AM
Just to check, is Classic gone in Leopard? Or is it still installable like in Tiger but not included?

It is completely gone. No classic support, even on PPC machines.

age234
Oct 26, 2007, 10:19 AM
It is completely gone. No classic support, even on PPC machines.

Well, I guess that's progress...

Goodbye Myst, Riven, Pegasus Prime... :(

I'll have to look into an old CRT iMac or something for those.

devman
Oct 26, 2007, 10:23 AM
Anybody know if Leopard has Quartz 2D Extreme finally enabled? (note, this is not regular Quartz Extreme that's been in OS X for a long time, this is the 2D interface part of the graphics layer that was supposed to be offloaded to the GPU starting with Tiger, but was not activated due to being too buggy)

For more info:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14

Anyone know?

It's now called Quartz GL and it is off by default.

psychofreak
Oct 26, 2007, 10:24 AM
Well, I guess that's progress...

Goodbye Myst, Riven, Pegasus Prime... :(

I'll have to look into an old CRT iMac or something for those.

You can still use SheepShaver (http://gwenole.beauchesne.info/projects/sheepshaver/) :)

morespce54
Oct 26, 2007, 10:28 AM
Speaking of notes from various reviews, I found this review from ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3775537) interesting because they say that there's no way to delete a file from Time Machine once it's backed up. The implication is that if you need to get rid of any trace of a certain file for security reasons, Time Machine won't let you truly eradicate it from all existence.

If true, this is a pretty huge oversight on Apple's part. As the review says:

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I was wondering that too... :confused::confused:

On a side note, I'll be missing the R2D2... :(

kddpop
Oct 26, 2007, 10:32 AM
I was wondering that too... :confused::confused:

On a side note, I'll be missing the R2D2... :(

i'll miss the hologram as well. any confirmation of the removal of other neato ichat visuals...especially the "speak as balmer" feature. i love it when conan does this and would like to goof around with that as well.

~kyle

gyus
Oct 26, 2007, 10:33 AM
Anybody know if Leopard has Quartz 2D Extreme finally enabled? (note, this is not regular Quartz Extreme that's been in OS X for a long time, this is the 2D interface part of the graphics layer that was supposed to be offloaded to the GPU starting with Tiger, but was not activated due to being too buggy)

For more info:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10-4.ars/14

Anyone know?

No QE2d has been dropped. Apparently, the technical difficulty of implementing it OS - wide was too great and had too many problems. I too would have like to seen it. Personally, I'll be skipping this update - it seems that Leopard is Apple's Vista! Too much emphasis on cpu hogging eye candy and light on actual innovations. My prediction is that on intel boxes it will run as fast as Tiger and on PPC boxes it will run more slowly. But OS overhead as a whole has increased on Leopard - you just wont feel it as much on intel boxes.

You'll see what I mean after 7 pm tonight as reviews start rolling in!

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 10:33 AM
If you are that security conscious, you won't be using Time Machine to back up files. It's not like you are "eradicating" files by dragging them to the Trash bin anyhow. Drill some holes through your drives and bury them somewhere in the woods.

Ryan5505
Oct 26, 2007, 10:39 AM
FedEx just dropped off our copies OSX at the office! We are installing on a macbook. It is taking about 5 minutes to verify the consistency of the DVD?

Anyways, I am just happy we are going to have all new operating systems and we do not have to wait in line at 6 to get it! :)

Wow, about 1.5 hours to install, I seriously cant wait.

Mr.Texor
Oct 26, 2007, 10:42 AM
If you are that security conscious, you won't be using Time Machine to back up files. It's not like you are "eradicating" files by dragging them to the Trash bin anyhow. Drill some holes through your drives and bury them somewhere in the woods.

overcast is right, you cant trust any kind of security if the attacker has physical access to your computer/drives...

said that.. on the last macbreak weekly (http://www.twit.tv/mbw63), iirc, they were talking about timemachine, and they said, there's a way to permanently delete all instances of a file so that it wont appear on timemachine at any date once the file is deleted.

morespce54
Oct 26, 2007, 10:44 AM
Hypercard and MacPaint sure are snappier! :)

Yay! I knew hypercard was one of the secret features!!! ;)
But MacPaint... You made my day! :D

vitaflo
Oct 26, 2007, 10:47 AM
I was wondering that too... :confused::confused:

On a side note, I'll be missing the R2D2... :(

Yes you can delete items from time machine permanently. Go into time machine, click on the file(s) you want to delete from the backup and then click the gear icon in the toolbar and select "Delete all backups of _____". That will delete all instances of whatever it is you want to get rid of in your time machine backups.

chas0001
Oct 26, 2007, 10:49 AM
I love the way that you can use expose in Spaces. Very nice.

Just installing Leopard on my computers. Backups galore!

groovebuster
Oct 26, 2007, 10:49 AM
It's funny to see the same procedure as every time Apple is releasing something... no matter if hard- or software.

Huge hype -> everybody's wetting their pants -> big 'hang over'

;)

People should know by now...

I still think it is a decent update. I can't wait to get home and to play round with it. My wife called this afternoon to tell me that it was delivered already.

groovebuster

Macanimal
Oct 26, 2007, 10:51 AM
What are they Discussing?!!

Data
Oct 26, 2007, 10:56 AM
Hi there, i haven't had time to read the thread , but is there any mention here already over a bug in leopard that makes it impossible to use the build in software update program unless you had leopard installed already on your system ( a beta build ) .The bug being that the software update program can't reach the apple servers for updating. ?

Reborn A Mac
Oct 26, 2007, 10:58 AM
I hate to see that the functionality to backup using TimeMachine over the Airport Extreme (N) Base Station was dropped from the final release. I think this is an integral feature for laptop users like myself. Without being able to complete incremental backup via Airport 3/4 of the power of TimeMachine is wasted for laptop users.

Project
Oct 26, 2007, 11:02 AM
I hate to see that the functionality to backup using TimeMachine over the Airport Extreme (N) Base Station was dropped from the final release. I think this is an integral feature for laptop users like myself. Without being able to complete incremental backup via Airport 3/4 of the power of TimeMachine is wasted for laptop users.

I actually bought an Airport Extreme for this reason about a month ago. Hopefully the feature is implemented in an update soon.

Fastshutter
Oct 26, 2007, 11:06 AM
The "blue screen" image on Windows network shares is not just "childish" -- it violates some rather basic principles of user interface design. A monitor displaying a BSOD is giving users a visual cue that the network share is somehow broken, perhaps untrustworthy if not entirely inaccessible.

It would indeed be useful if CoverFlow could distinguish between healthy and broken network shares, and given Apple's usual attention to detail one might naturally assume the BSOD was an example of this detail, rather than just a childish poke at a rival.

Of course, if M$ wants to follow suit, the next release of Windows can show 90 percent of the world's computer users that a Mac share is a funny-looking TV screen with a bomb icon on it, or that it's a kernel panic. Would Mac users appreciate the joke if it were turned in their direction?

On top of that, Apple will never gain market share if people perceive that it can't work well with Windows. Just look at how successful they were for adding bootcamp, and how important MS Office for OSX is. This graphic makes me think that Apple can't work well with windows if windows drives always appear as broken in the UI. If Apple took the high road and showed how well windows works with OSX they would be much better off.

justflie
Oct 26, 2007, 11:06 AM
At least until Apple can do something different.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4389999#post4389999 :apple:

dogtanian
Oct 26, 2007, 11:08 AM
I hate to see that the functionality to backup using TimeMachine over the Airport Extreme (N) Base Station was dropped from the final release. I think this is an integral feature for laptop users like myself. Without being able to complete incremental backup via Airport 3/4 of the power of TimeMachine is wasted for laptop users.

They delayed it a few months and still didn't manage to keep my favourite feature. I love how they tease you with these things then gently phase them out when they realise they can't do it.

I hope Project is right regarding a future upgrade...

And to the guy that was mocking the people that were pining for that feature, I would call you an fool but I'm nice :D Plus most people with laptops don't need keyboards and mice, thats the frickin' point!!!!

cgmpowers
Oct 26, 2007, 11:08 AM
My copy arrived from Apple not more than 2 minutes ago, the box is really cool...photos do not do it justice.

Gonna go install...wish me luck...hopefully it doesn't break my Adobe Apps..

encro
Oct 26, 2007, 11:09 AM
Speaking of notes from various reviews, I found this review from ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3775537) interesting because they say that there's no way to delete a file from Time Machine once it's backed up. The implication is that if you need to get rid of any trace of a certain file for security reasons, Time Machine won't let you truly eradicate it from all existence.

If true, this is a pretty huge oversight on Apple's part. As the review says:

Can anyone confirm or deny this?


Deny. Completely Untrue.
http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/2655/leopard_time_machine_delete_files_folders_from_backup

Orng
Oct 26, 2007, 11:09 AM
Comment deleted by commenter

morespce54
Oct 26, 2007, 11:11 AM
Yes you can delete items from time machine permanently. Go into time machine, click on the file(s) you want to delete from the backup and then click the gear icon in the toolbar and select "Delete all backups of _____". That will delete all instances of whatever it is you want to get rid of in your time machine backups.

Ouf! ;)
Thanks :D

Virgil-TB2
Oct 26, 2007, 11:18 AM
... Example. Paint shop Pro in windows makes a file that stores all of its thumbnails in. These files are useless to me so when I migrated my picts (About 5K of them.) over to iPhoto I wanted to remove these files because all told it was taking up about 100MB of space. Using Spotlight I searched for these files. :apple: - A and dragged them into the garbage can. Small problem. Spotlight can find items IN the trash. So what I'm assuming ended up happening was that as it deleted the files from my profile it showed up in spotlight in the trash can and went into a loop. BAM. Instant KP every time. ....This makes no sense to me.

Why would the fact that spotlight can find them in the trash send anything "into a loop?" That only makes sense if you were using a script to delete them.

Colman
Oct 26, 2007, 11:22 AM
Right, all installed on 21" 2GhZ iMac G5: interface is faster than Tiger, mostly (I suspect) due to the improved HTML rendering engine. Spotlight is indexing and isn't impacting system performance as much as it used to, (though my CPU is at 73C and the fans are running). Coverflow speed is acceptable, Spaces works better than Desktop Manager used to (though I'd love to turn the transition off).

Virtual PC 7.0.3 is working for me, which was my main worry (I need to use it for a dumbass bank system).

Colman
Oct 26, 2007, 11:24 AM
Fails with the message:

"The file “index-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog” couldn’t be found on
the server “swscan.apple.com”."

This should be fun ...

loveturtle
Oct 26, 2007, 11:27 AM
Fails with the message:

"The file “index-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog” couldn’t be found on
the server “swscan.apple.com”."

This should be fun ...

That just happend this morning, Mine actually got delivered yesterday. SU worked fine until this morning, They will probably have it fixed later today.

I just wish they would post the zfs.kext before I have a stroke...

PS. looks like they fixed it.

jordo
Oct 26, 2007, 11:28 AM
Score! I have a copy and yeah, you probably don't! Sorry guys.

The box is very, very small and looks very incredible. Compares to the size of two CD cases.

Time to upgrade.

milo
Oct 26, 2007, 11:29 AM
What are they Discussing?!!

They're probably just adding 10.5 as an option in all the forums as well as adding a new leopard section.

mkaake
Oct 26, 2007, 11:30 AM
I'd imagine the reason software update doesn't work right now is that they haven't turned it online... (just a guess). Since Leopard wasn't supposed to be in anyone's hands until 6 tonight, I could very easily see them not putting whatever file is currently missing in place until tonight.

Just a guess.

Cameront9
Oct 26, 2007, 11:32 AM
Fails with the message:

"The file “index-leopard.merged-1.sucatalog” couldn’t be found on
the server “swscan.apple.com”."

This should be fun ...

Looks to me like SU is looking for a file on the server to check against and it simply isn't there yet. Shouldn't be a problem to fix....Maybe they will have it live tonight....

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 11:38 AM
I'd imagine the reason software update doesn't work right now is that they haven't turned it online... (just a guess). Since Leopard wasn't supposed to be in anyone's hands until 6 tonight, I could very easily see them not putting whatever file is currently missing in place until tonight.

Just a guess.

...and who's trying to update Leopard now? Um, wasn't it just released (and in some cases still not)?

aLoC
Oct 26, 2007, 11:40 AM
...and who's trying to update Leopard now? Um, wasn't it just released (and in some cases still not)?

People who have reinstalled iLife might want to use it.

stoutboy1
Oct 26, 2007, 11:43 AM
Oh yeah? http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4387985&postcount=50

This might even help with using other network drives...

B

Has anyone else tried to use TM on airportextreme. Im going to install leopard now then check back to see if anyone has replicated it sucsefully. Everyone have a great day mine is about to et better...:D

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 11:44 AM
People who have reinstalled iLife might want to use it.

Hmmm, iLife without an update works fine on Leopard beta 9A599. Besides, they may have to tweak any updates before releasing again.

yzp
Oct 26, 2007, 11:48 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

- Feels fast on a PowerBook G4 1.33GHz


great!! my 1.2 ibook will probably be okay!!

lazyrighteye
Oct 26, 2007, 11:50 AM
Is CD-burning in Finder still a PITA or can I finally throw Toast off?

Agreed.
And I'm glad you mention this as I never seem to hear anyone bring up what I see as a glaring hole in the basic functionality of the Mac OS.
This little booger has bugged me from day one.

Toast got it right. Very right. A nice, simple, easy-to-use and powerful interface that offers a high level of control. Quasi surprised Apple hasn't either A) acquired Roxio and implemented this functionality on the OS-level or B) completely ripped Roxio off and bundled a Toast clone in their OS. Either way, Finder burning is crap. And by now (Leopard), I expect better. Especially of something so rudimentary.

geerlingguy
Oct 26, 2007, 11:53 AM
Not sure about the rest but for Spotlight... yes. Use kind:image, kind:pdf, etc in your search.

HTH

This functionality is present in Tiger also...

Colman
Oct 26, 2007, 11:54 AM
They've fixed whatever was up ...

plaine300
Oct 26, 2007, 11:55 AM
I felt a little stiffed by Apple with the iPhone (hey, thanks for the $100 voucher so i can spend MORE money on you) and now this OS. I simply must stop early adopting.

I've tried 3 times now to install and finally made it through on the 3rd time to the very end. Now, I'm sitting here on "About a minute" and have been for "About an hour".

Considering this is such a minor update, I wish I hadn't done this.

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:00 PM
What's the verdict on A2DP?

It is not yet officialy reported. We will be hearing all the cry babies soon about how the workaround corrupted their files and caused they systems to hang. Then they will blame Apple.

Wait for it, it is coming.

jecapaga
Oct 26, 2007, 12:03 PM
I hate to see that the functionality to backup using TimeMachine over the Airport Extreme (N) Base Station was dropped from the final release. I think this is an integral feature for laptop users like myself. Without being able to complete incremental backup via Airport 3/4 of the power of TimeMachine is wasted for laptop users.

Especially when you consider that laptops are a booming sector for apple and now we all have to plug in somewhere. This has to be updated in a software update.

milo
Oct 26, 2007, 12:03 PM
...and who's trying to update Leopard now? Um, wasn't it just released (and in some cases still not)?

It's been available for hours. It seems pretty odd not to have software update working on launch day, they must be aware that other time zones are hours ahead, and that fedex would be delivering it way earlier in the day than 6 PM.

Half Glass
Oct 26, 2007, 12:05 PM
Especially when you consider that laptops are a booming sector for apple and now we all have to plug in somewhere. This has to be updated in a software update.


My copy is coming in a few minutes, but I have already left feedback for Apple regarding this issue on the feedback section of their website.

It is disappointing indeed!

--HG

HLdan
Oct 26, 2007, 12:11 PM
On top of that, Apple will never gain market share if people perceive that it can't work well with Windows. Just look at how successful they were for adding bootcamp, and how important MS Office for OSX is. This graphic makes me think that Apple can't work well with windows if windows drives always appear as broken in the UI. If Apple took the high road and showed how well windows works with OSX they would be much better off.

Sometimes it's really hard for even Apple to take the high road when MS does everything to jack Apple's customers as much as possible. Sometimes I get totally annoyed at some posters who will defend Windows as if it's some poor old OS that can't afford jabbing.

Time through time Mac users get thrown in the face that Macs are useless, they have under 10% market share, Windows is superior and dominant and there's no place for Macs in the business world. Well MS helps that argument by ditching important features in Mac Office so Windows continues to dominate the corporate world. MS tells their employees to dump iPods into the trash and post pics on the web about it.
Now posters are complaining about a PC graphic joke in Coverflow??
Apple on the other hand continues to show that there is room for both OS X and Windows OS's in both business and the home market.

It's truly MS that creates this friendly hatred between Macs and PC's.

tbealmear
Oct 26, 2007, 12:12 PM
I hope so too. If it wasnt for me being at work, I would already have Leopard installed. The box is pretty tho. I had it at 10.15am this morning at my desk. So nice!

aLoC
Oct 26, 2007, 12:13 PM
This is so damn fast I love it. This 2.8GHz iMac actually feels like 2.8GHz now.

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:14 PM
Check out what happens when you browse your network filled with windows shares

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/1754563885_476008766f_b.jpg

Did Leopard cause those or where they like that before?

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 12:15 PM
Sometimes it's really hard for even Apple to take the high road when MS does everything to jack Apple's customers as much as possible. Sometimes I get totally annoyed at some posters who will defend Windows as if it's some poor old OS that can't afford jabbing.

Time through time Mac users get thrown in the face that Macs are useless, they have under 10% market share, Windows is superior and dominant and there's no place for Macs in the business world. Well MS helps that argument by ditching important features in Mac Office so Windows continues to dominate the corporate world. MS tells their employees to dump iPods into the trash and post pics on the web about it.
Now posters are complaining about a PC graphic joke in Coverflow??
Apple on the other hand continues to show that there is room for both OS X and Windows OS's in both business and the home market.

It's truly MS that creates this friendly hatred between Macs and PC's.
Oh you mean like when people on this forum ruthlessly defend ANY Apple product, regardless of how severe the issue is? I forgot that MS no longer supports Apple and Unix protocols.

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:20 PM
May I be an even bigger n00b and ask "How is this achieved?" :p

Go into you system preferences, in Tiger you enable it via sharing, in Leopard I am not sure but I think it is under network (in system preferences)

Select the drive or folder on that machine and you are now sharing the device or folder.

Then go to the finder and select go to server (at work dont have my system), you should be able to map to the drive on that system.

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:25 PM
If your current TM backup disk is getting low in space and you want to switch to a new larger drive, can you plug both and then move / copy the top level directory in the "old" TM drive?

I would prefer not to loose old stuff, prefer to get them moved.

Karvel
Oct 26, 2007, 12:27 PM
edit

redkamel
Oct 26, 2007, 12:28 PM
I like how the only features removed were the ones I was looking forward to.
May not apply to everyone, but I am a science student that does a lot of web research and photo work in my spare time, and game...so I use my computer for lots of things.

timemachine: I already do my own backups. Its really easy. if I could do them over the air that would be something new and worth money. I also dont delete things if I think it might be useful later. I just put it in a junk folder to throw away in a month or two.

NSF: gone. now I have to have another big harddrive.

sync notes to iphone: gone. is this really hard to program or something? I mean, sync to stickies. thats it. they are text files.

OS switching: gone.

ichat effects: seeing as no one I know video chats, I was hoping to amuse myself. now tehy are gone.

eye candy/spaces: it all looks distracting to me, and useless. 3d icons I can't manipulate? transparent windows with reflections? this is worse than widgets! (which is at least useful for some people I know). If I need a new "space" I just hide the programs.

stacks: my stuffs already organized, but it would be nice to not have a window pop up when I click a dock folder.

coverflow/quick look: sorry, my files are already named appropriately so i dont have to open them to see if its what I want. Spotlight finds anything more specific. Coverflow is fine when I am mucking with music, but for searching for a file? too slow.

pretty much anything useful was removed from the OS. and how come I can't use bluetooth on my iphone to control my mac? salling could do it. They need some new ideas over there. I havent seen anything awesome in the OS since spotlight and expose.

I'll be holding off on this one.

Tampa Tom
Oct 26, 2007, 12:31 PM
Installed on on iMac G4 (1ghz w/ 768 mb RAM). Safari and mail ran great but the dock was jumpy and all graphics were very sluggish (compared to 10.4.10).

As a side note iChat (from iLife 08) would not recognize the USB camera even though the Leopard iChat specs indicate it would recognize USB cameras. The third party USB camera enabler iChatUSBCam has now been updated to 2.2.2 specificaly for Leopard.

MarkDouma
Oct 26, 2007, 12:31 PM
Maybe I will have to see it in action, or maybe my IM habits are abnormal, but I don't use people's names when iChatting.

"Thanks for sharing that clip on YouTube, Randy."
"It's one of my favs, Bill."

??

Again, might need to see in action.

I think it's intended more for people who are in group chats. If you have 10 people talking back and forth about different topics, you could potentially miss what someone said to you. In a group chat you do tend to include the name of the buddy your message is intended for.

My name being "Mark", a few weeks back (on the latest Developer build I have), I tried playing around with different ways to see if I could trick it into highlighting an instance of my name that was really just the word "mark" as in the sense of a punctuation mark, etc.

There seems to be a good deal of thought put into it, as I don't think it would highlight Mark if I said the phrase "punctuation Mark", even if it was capitalized...

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:32 PM
Yeah, brilliant. Will please the Mac fanboys, but will definitely not help in the enterprise market.

I mean, come on, as an insider joke in the devloper build it was funny, but maybe they should've just added some default Win XP/Vista logo. Heck, even a stupid wooden window wouldn't be that embarassing.

If the company allows people to plug-in their own machine and or test new operating systems in the company production network, then I do not feel sorry for them at all. Serve them right if all those servers turned to blue screens.

Hope Leopard did that.

imwoblin
Oct 26, 2007, 12:35 PM
So what's the early concensus.... What type of install is everyone choosing. Update, archive and install or clean install?

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 12:35 PM
I like how the only features removed were the ones I was looking forward to.
May not apply to everyone, but I am a science student that does a lot of web research and photo work in my spare time, and game...so I use my computer for lots of things.

timemachine: I already do my own backups. Its really easy. if I could do them over the air that would be something new and worth money. I also dont delete things if I think it might be useful later. I just put it in a junk folder to throw away in a month or two.

NSF: gone. now I have to have another big harddrive.

sync notes to iphone: gone. is this really hard to program or something? I mean, sync to stickies. thats it. they are text files.

OS switching: gone.

ichat effects: seeing as no one I know video chats, I was hoping to amuse myself. now tehy are gone.

eye candy/spaces: it all looks distracting to me, and useless. 3d icons I can't manipulate? transparent windows with reflections? this is worse than widgets! (which is at least useful for some people I know). If I need a new "space" I just hide the programs.

stacks: my stuffs already organized, but it would be nice to not have a window pop up when I click a dock folder.

coverflow/quick look: sorry, my files are already named appropriately so i dont have to open them to see if its what I want. Spotlight finds anything more specific. Coverflow is fine when I am mucking with music, but for searching for a file? too slow.

pretty much anything useful was removed from the OS. and how come I can't use bluetooth on my iphone to control my mac? salling could do it. They need some new ideas over there. I havent seen anything awesome in the OS since spotlight and expose.

I'll be holding off on this one.
If your current OS already provides everything you need, then what is the problem?

vassillios
Oct 26, 2007, 12:37 PM
Did Leopard cause those or where they like that before?
considering the fact that coverflow was not in Tiger, it must have been in Leopard. Also, during the Leopard preview with Steve, it first appeared then..

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:39 PM
Very cool...I'm excited! Mine's on the truck -- says it'll be here by 10:30! Unfortunately I can't install it until I get home but still!

Quick make like you are sick and head home

bigjohn
Oct 26, 2007, 12:41 PM
Watch yourselves with the Fedex "Pre-Sign For Delivery" notice on the door - I left one out and my delivery got "excepted", instead of getting it at 10am when I woke up, It now comes no later than 4:30pm today.

vassillios
Oct 26, 2007, 12:43 PM
I like how the only features removed were the ones I was looking forward to.
May not apply to everyone, but I am a science student that does a lot of web research and photo work in my spare time, and game...so I use my computer for lots of things.

timemachine: I already do my own backups. Its really easy. if I could do them over the air that would be something new and worth money. I also dont delete things if I think it might be useful later. I just put it in a junk folder to throw away in a month or two.

NSF: gone. now I have to have another big harddrive.

sync notes to iphone: gone. is this really hard to program or something? I mean, sync to stickies. thats it. they are text files.

OS switching: gone.

ichat effects: seeing as no one I know video chats, I was hoping to amuse myself. now tehy are gone.

eye candy/spaces: it all looks distracting to me, and useless. 3d icons I can't manipulate? transparent windows with reflections? this is worse than widgets! (which is at least useful for some people I know). If I need a new "space" I just hide the programs.

stacks: my stuffs already organized, but it would be nice to not have a window pop up when I click a dock folder.

coverflow/quick look: sorry, my files are already named appropriately so i dont have to open them to see if its what I want. Spotlight finds anything more specific. Coverflow is fine when I am mucking with music, but for searching for a file? too slow.

pretty much anything useful was removed from the OS. and how come I can't use bluetooth on my iphone to control my mac? salling could do it. They need some new ideas over there. I havent seen anything awesome in the OS since spotlight and expose.

I'll be holding off on this one.


you don't quite get the point of quick look. It allows you to view a file without opening the program that would normally allow you to view it. Also, quick viewing a file will not register it in the Recent Items.

Stacks. If you click on a folder in the dock (in tiger), does it not open a window (finder window)?

Spaces. Hiding is nowhere near the same thing.

mohamadfazli
Oct 26, 2007, 12:44 PM
He he..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF6xn8cTA8g

Installation was pretty smooth..

MBP took abt 1 hr.. whilst my macpro was abt 30 mins

bigjohn
Oct 26, 2007, 12:47 PM
Stacks. If you click on a folder in the dock (in tiger), does it not open a window (finder window)?

since you can't put a folder in the dock (in tiger), i guess it doesn't open a window (finder window).

wow, not even my discussion and i'm snippy - must be the whole delivery exception business

BevvyB
Oct 26, 2007, 12:51 PM
Installed no problem on new drive from scratch
Was pleasantly surprised when it asked me if I wanted to copy over all the old stuff from the previous install - and then it took 3 hours (well there was a lot of stuff on it)
The only thing that didn't come across properly was the Intellimouse cPanel for my 6 button mouse
So I downloaded the drivers again from M$
And then the mouse stopped working altogether
So currently I'm using an old mouse, wondering if M$ were even told they may have to update their mouse drivers
But apart from that, it's all cool on this G5 dual

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 12:52 PM
since you can't put a folder in the dock (in tiger), i guess it doesn't open a window (finder window).

wow, not even my discussion and i'm snippy - must be the whole delivery exception business

You can put a folder in the dock, just the right part along side of the trash can. Is that what you meant? (sorry if I misunderstood the discussion)

barnaby117
Oct 26, 2007, 12:52 PM
Hey everyone!

I am just a lurker who could use some help! I started installing Leopard -- did the restart, but don't get to the installation instructions. My iBook G4 just shows the working icon on a blue screen. Any thoughts? Thank you!

bigjohn
Oct 26, 2007, 12:53 PM
You can put a folder in the dock, just the right part along side of the trash can. Is that what you meant? (sorry if I misunderstood the discussion)

i didn't even know you could do that! am i tired or what? sorry, please continue with your previous discussion.

petvas
Oct 26, 2007, 12:55 PM
Resizable partitions? Pretty sweet!

Actually this is not a new feature! It existed in Tiger also through diskutil. Now its just available on the GUI...

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 12:56 PM
Here's the description on resizing partitions from the Apple page. What does that mean, you have to delete the volume that comes after it? Does that mean you need an empty partition to delete in order to resize another one?


"Live Partition Resizing in Disk Utility

You may be able to gain disk space without losing data. If a volume is running out of space, simply delete the volume that comes after it on the disk and move the volume’s end point into the freed space."

Lets you grow your current partition to take over "unpartition space" after your current partition. --- not the same. Does not allow you to remove a partion in front and take over the space and does not allow you to shrink the partition based on the statement.

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 12:57 PM
So what's the early concensus.... What type of install is everyone choosing. Update, archive and install or clean install?

Archive and install. It's a clean install but saves all users info and loads it into the clean install of Leopard. Takes a bit longer but it seems the most logical as any possible issues with years of Tiger use are eradicated with a clean OS slate. Just my $.02.

imwoblin
Oct 26, 2007, 01:03 PM
Watch yourselves with the Fedex "Pre-Sign For Delivery" notice on the door - I left one out and my delivery got "excepted", instead of getting it at 10am when I woke up, It now comes no later than 4:30pm today.

FedX pulled the same stunt at my location. I placed the "Pre-Sign for Delivery Notice" on my door last night because I was working around the house this morning, and just tracked my package. The tracking results say "Exempted - driver made delivery attempt and no one was home to sign for package". This is BS because no one from FedX came by this morning to attempt delivery. I called FedX and they contacted dispatch, who contacted the driver, and she tells me the driver told her he attempted delivery and no one was home. I asked her about the Pre-Sign form on the door and she said he didn't see it. I then asked why he didn't leave a notice of failed delivery sticker on the door and she said he forgot to. Lesson learned is DO NOT leave a Pre-Sign release on the door as it must trigger a "we can deliver it anytime we choose" exemption from FedX.

mheidt
Oct 26, 2007, 01:04 PM
So an external 3rd party NAS with AFP support will not work?
The Synology didn't work with 559

tmoney468
Oct 26, 2007, 01:06 PM
I wasn't really given an option to do a fresh install, archive and install, or upgrade install...I put the DVD in and ran the "Install Leopard" icon which brought up a screen to Restart. So I did that and went through the setup steps but it never asked me what type of install to do, and I couldn't see any option to change it. Will this just do an upgrade install since I selected it in Tiger?

steve_hill4
Oct 26, 2007, 01:07 PM
Leaving work at 1730, we didn't have our copies available to sell yet. Should be there for the morning though. I'll buy mine and a few of us are getting in early with the hope they'll be there to install and play with.

My question is how many people voting negative here are doing so because the R2-D2 feature has been scrubbed from iChat? :)

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 01:11 PM
I wasn't really given an option to do a fresh install, archive and install, or upgrade install...I put the DVD in and ran the "Install Leopard" icon which brought up a screen to Restart. So I did that and went through the setup steps but it never asked me what type of install to do, and I couldn't see any option to change it. Will this just do an upgrade install since I selected it in Tiger?

There normally is an option for install tucked away somewhere towards the beginning, I forget lol, it's been a while, but I recall it wasn't exactly in bold letters. When I install the commercial Leopard I'll post.

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 01:12 PM
i didn't even know you could do that! am i tired or what? sorry, please continue with your previous discussion.

All good, just glad I was able to help out a little :)

gmanrique
Oct 26, 2007, 01:12 PM
I just got back to my mac and saw all the answers to the thread.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Leopard

Ok, I wiki'd the missing features listed above. Someone who knows better than I may want to categorize them as: rumored, marketed, present in developer builds, etc... :D

mheidt
Oct 26, 2007, 01:13 PM
Maybe I will have to see it in action, or maybe my IM habits are abnormal, but I don't use people's names when iChatting.

"Thanks for sharing that clip on YouTube, Randy."
"It's one of my favs, Bill."

??

Again, might need to see in action.
Sometimes you overlook incoming messages and the other party is saying something like

Randy?!

when you don't answer.

I like the feature as well.

JorgeAHdz
Oct 26, 2007, 01:13 PM
Archive and install. It's a clean install but saves all users info and loads it into the clean install of Leopard. Takes a bit longer but it seems the most logical as any possible issues with years of Tiger use are eradicated with a clean OS slate. Just my $.02.


I don't think its quite a clean install since i doubt it reformats your hard drive (that would wipe out the archive) so any hard disk problems (if any) that were on the hard disk before are likely to remain. Still a good balance between clean install and upgrade tho. :rolleyes:

Taylor C
Oct 26, 2007, 01:18 PM
As far as I remember, the hologram wasn't actually in the wwdc build either.

CJD2112
Oct 26, 2007, 01:18 PM
I don't think its quite a clean install since i doubt it reformats your hard drive (that would wipe out the archive) so any hard disk problems (if any) that were on the hard disk before are likely to remain. Still a good balance between clean install and upgrade tho. :rolleyes:

True, it has to tuck away a part of the drive for archiving (it would be nice if there was an option to archive to a slave drive, format the main drive, install Leopard than reload user info/documents/etc.). Otherwise, at least you're deleting all remnants of Tiger.

On another note, I'm really surprised people are split on Leopard (almost 1/2 neg and pos votes).

redkamel
Oct 26, 2007, 01:20 PM
you don't quite get the point of quick look. It allows you to view a file without opening the program that would normally allow you to view it. Also, quick viewing a file will not register it in the Recent Items.

Stacks. If you click on a folder in the dock (in tiger), does it not open a window (finder window)?

Spaces. Hiding is nowhere near the same thing.

I get the point of quick look, my point was I personally don't have to open my files to check whats in it, because I label/organize them properly. I only open them to use (read or edit) them. And I probably cant read something in quick look when the document is 5 inches tall.

my tiger dock folders do open a window. I kind of like stacks because it doesn't open another window.

spaces..I used a 3rd party space before, and hiding worked better for me. but to each his own. I like having multiple screens, but I need to view them simultaneously.

my problem is that the new OS doesnt have anything new and useful, when it could. Time machine makes backups easier for people who didnt do it before, but that doesnt apply to me. It seems to me they spent all the time adding visual effects and no new functionality. I mean, spaces was available 3rd party...so its not really "new".

basically, my post was all about me ;-)

I dont mean to rain on peoples parade or troll. Thought I'd answer those posts though.

alcides11
Oct 26, 2007, 01:22 PM
I got mine delivered here at work around 9:50 AM EST. Reading everything about Leopard and the install/first use experience is driving me nuts, I have to get home!!!! Uh bye bossman! :D

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 01:23 PM
I get the point of quick look, my point was I personally don't have to open my files to check whats in it, because I label/organize them properly. I only open them to use (read or edit) them. And I probably cant read something in quick look when the document is 5 inches tall.

my tiger dock folders do open a window. I kind of like stacks because it doesn't open another window.

spaces..I used a 3rd party space before, and hiding worked better for me. but to each his own. I like having multiple screens, but I need to view them simultaneously.

my problem is that the new OS doesnt have anything new and useful, when it could. Time machine makes backups easier for people who didnt do it before, but that doesnt apply to me. It seems to me they spent all the time adding visual effects and no new functionality. I mean, spaces was available 3rd party...so its not really "new".

basically, my post was all about me ;-)

I dont mean to rain on peoples parade or troll. Thought I'd answer those posts though.
Again, if your current OS suits your needs. What is the issue?

kitki83
Oct 26, 2007, 01:23 PM
And we all forget about 10.4.11, I am still upset they cannot fix my USB problems. Anyway is there a site for known programs that do not work in leopard?

y2kmatsuo
Oct 26, 2007, 01:25 PM
I've got Leopard this morning and I'm playing!
It's really cool!!! I guess other folks also got
the copy this morning!!! Yeeeaahhhh!!!!!:)

vassillios
Oct 26, 2007, 01:27 PM
since you can't put a folder in the dock (in tiger), i guess it doesn't open a window (finder window).

wow, not even my discussion and i'm snippy - must be the whole delivery exception business


huh? I had multiple folders in my dock in Tiger.

parapup
Oct 26, 2007, 01:28 PM
Installed today morning on my Mac-mini 1.66 Ghz Core Duo with 1Gb RAM. Installed on external Firewire drive.

Boy, it definitely is faster than Tiger even on this weak machine.

No issues - installation took 1.15 hours - new welcome music and space 3D stuff is great!

Applications start literally instantaneously - feels like a new machine. Got to check how it does on my SR MBP w/4G RAM.

Time machine is sweet - detected my backup drive and automagically started its thing in background - no slowdowns when using the machine.

Spaces rock - I can very much use that feature.

Dock - Looks nice, Stacks are good too, except that I did not like how it puts files with no icons (files that have no application to open) as default one in the stack - should have been smarter there.

Wallpapers - nothing really exciting here. Did not like any of the new ones.

DTrace -WoW! I am a Developer and nothing is neater than this thing - it essentially allows you to peak into what the OS and Applications are doing - very cool. Oh and the new Terminal is cool too!

Haven't got enough time to play more - but I can say Apple has done a great job - a step forward unlike Vista. (On this same mini XP flied and Vista sucked rocks BTW.)

jagolden
Oct 26, 2007, 01:29 PM
Concerning TM not deleting from the backups:

That would be a pretty dumb oversight, but I don't give a hoot about Time Machine and will never use it.

Isn't backing up, so files trashed (purposely or accidently) can still be accessed, the whole point of backing up?

True, though, would be handy to be able to delete all sets of a particulare file or folder.

Someone will figure that out or Apple will change in an update.

vassillios
Oct 26, 2007, 01:30 PM
FedX pulled the same stunt at my location. I placed the "Pre-Sign for Delivery Notice" on my door last night because I was working around the house this morning, and just tracked my package. The tracking results say "Exempted - driver made delivery attempt and no one was home to sign for package". This is BS because no one from FedX came by this morning to attempt delivery. I called FedX and they contacted dispatch, who contacted the driver, and she tells me the driver told her he attempted delivery and no one was home. I asked her about the Pre-Sign form on the door and she said he didn't see it. I then asked why he didn't leave a notice of failed delivery sticker on the door and she said he forgot to. Lesson learned is DO NOT leave a Pre-Sign release on the door as it must trigger a "we can deliver it anytime we choose" exemption from FedX.

Worked for me this morning while I am at work...package is waiting for me at home :)

stoutboy1
Oct 26, 2007, 01:33 PM
Safari wont open under leopard (definitely not snappier) It says Safari has quit unexpectedly, any suggestions?
Thanks

JorgeAHdz
Oct 26, 2007, 01:33 PM
Installed no problem on new drive from scratch
Was pleasantly surprised when it asked me if I wanted to copy over all the old stuff from the previous install - and then it took 3 hours (well there was a lot of stuff on it)
The only thing that didn't come across properly was the Intellimouse cPanel for my 6 button mouse
So I downloaded the drivers again from M$
And then the mouse stopped working altogether
So currently I'm using an old mouse, wondering if M$ were even told they may have to update their mouse drivers
But apart from that, it's all cool on this G5 dual

Can you elaborate more on this? Did you have your original Tiger Drive on an external hard drive and then plugged it into your new leopard computer?

tribulation
Oct 26, 2007, 01:34 PM
FedX pulled the same stunt at my location. I placed the "Pre-Sign for Delivery Notice" on my door last night because I was working around the house this morning, and just tracked my package. The tracking results say "Exempted - driver made delivery attempt and no one was home to sign for package". This is BS because no one from FedX came by this morning to attempt delivery. I called FedX and they contacted dispatch, who contacted the driver, and she tells me the driver told her he attempted delivery and no one was home. I asked her about the Pre-Sign form on the door and she said he didn't see it. I then asked why he didn't leave a notice of failed delivery sticker on the door and she said he forgot to. Lesson learned is DO NOT leave a Pre-Sign release on the door as it must trigger a "we can deliver it anytime we choose" exemption from FedX.

I have the same problem. do you think it is really the pre sign thing though? I have it on my door just in case I don't hear it. My tracking said before 10:30 but then around 10:00 changed to the "delivery exception" crap. I called and they said it would be here before 5pm because "apple was shipping hundreds of thousands of them today and they have an agreement".
Maybe it is really the case? i don't know if it is related to leaving the slip or not but would really like to know if i should take mine off the door

Roy Hobbs
Oct 26, 2007, 01:35 PM
Installed on on iMac G4 (1ghz w/ 768 mb RAM). Safari and mail ran great but the dock was jumpy and all graphics were very sluggish (compared to 10.4.10).

As a side note iChat (from iLife 08) would not recognize the USB camera even though the Leopard iChat specs indicate it would recognize USB cameras. The third party USB camera enabler iChatUSBCam has now been updated to 2.2.2 specificaly for Leopard.

Is spotlight still indexing?? Until thats complete your Mac could be sluggish

vassillios
Oct 26, 2007, 01:36 PM
Concerning TM not deleting from the backups:



Isn't backing up, so files trashed (purposely or accidently) can still be accessed, the whole point of backing up?

True, though, would be handy to be able to delete all sets of a particulare file or folder.

Someone will figure that out or Apple will change in an update.


sure, unless a paticular picture of you with that stripper in Vegas should become "damaging", then you might like to get rid of it permanently.

SthrnCmfrtr
Oct 26, 2007, 01:36 PM
Anyone having wireless problems? My Mac mini can't connect to anything to save its life.

t0mat0
Oct 26, 2007, 01:37 PM
Or is it ALE Apple Lossless Encoding still? Think there might be a change come early november?
I've heard rumours of flac support in the Leopard betas - can anyone confirm it's in the final product?

Data
Oct 26, 2007, 01:38 PM
Hi there , i'm doing a ugrade install on my macbook form 10.4.10 i started the installer and went to take a shower, now i get back and all i see is a blue screen with my mouse on it, that still works by the way, but nothing else.
Is the maschien still upgrading or did something go terribly wrong ??

Does anybody know ?

Jetson
Oct 26, 2007, 01:40 PM
I ordered mine from Amazon last night. I'm excited, looking forward to playing with a new OS that reportedly runs snappier :D

petvas
Oct 26, 2007, 01:42 PM
After reading all 11 pages of this thread, all I can think of ist that all moaners have gathered here and make Leopard look bad.

Nothing in this world is perfect but please, dont tell me that this isnt the best OS available!
Its definitive an improvement over a Tiger, yes it could be even better, I dont think that Apple stripped any features and even if they did, better so if they couldnt get them ready in time!
I have been using Leopard on my both Macs the last three days now, and I am impressed. Leopard has changed the way I work on my computer. Spaces is really great. It works beautifully and especially on my Macbook is very valuable.
Time Machine is cool, I think it is slow though. I am sure that an update will fix that...
The new interface, I love it, looks beautiful.
Stacks, well for Downloads it works good, but for my documents it doesnt. As an App Launcher it is good.

The Speed increase is really dramatic. The native apps work much more smooth, Safari is really fast, as is Mail, iCal and Adressbook.

I would suggest guys, try doing constructive critisism and not moan. Leopard has definitely good and bad points, as everything in life

BritinNC
Oct 26, 2007, 01:42 PM
I had the same problem. It was suppose to arrive by 10:30am so I stay at home until then and finally put the pre-auth out at 10:30. When I got to work I found that there was a delivery exception and they had tried to deliver it at 10:28am. I called them up on this BS as I had not seen a FedEx van in sight at that time and the CSR said that they had been told by Apple to deliver them later in the day. I asked if they guy had tried to deliver it and she said no they just updated the status without attempting delivery (I think the 'requested future delivery' comment is that Apple requested this not me).

Not sure if the pre-auth is the problem or that in some areas they are delaying delivery. I'll be p****d if I miss it as I'll have to wait until Monday or go to the Apple Store tonight and refuse delivery from FedEx.

EDIT: Ohh... Upgraded status on MR, not a newbie anymore. What a great day!

CWallace
Oct 26, 2007, 01:43 PM
Lesson learned is DO NOT leave a Pre-Sign release on the door as it must trigger a "we can deliver it anytime we choose" exemption from FedX.

When I woke up this morning at 7:00AM PST, I checked FedEx and it showed my package arriving at the main depot at 5:25AM. It arrived at the local depot at 7:42AM and was on the truck at 7:46AM. All three times it said it was scheduled for delivery by 10:30AM.

At 8:22AM a Delivery exception (in bold) appeared with a "Future delivery requested" in the Detail section and my SFD time moved to "by 2:00PM".

So Apple or FedEx may be unilaterally shifting the delivery time later in the afternoon. It's 11:45AM PST now, and no sign of the truck. Kind of annoying since I took the day off to be here for it. I could have put in a half-day at work at this rate...

EagerDragon
Oct 26, 2007, 01:45 PM
considering the fact that coverflow was not in Tiger, it must have been in Leopard. Also, during the Leopard preview with Steve, it first appeared then..

So it is just an ICON and not showing that the systems crashed when scanned?

coleridge78
Oct 26, 2007, 01:47 PM
This makes no sense to me.

Why would the fact that spotlight can find them in the trash send anything "into a loop?" That only makes sense if you were using a script to delete them.

Agreed. The person making that claim is either a liar (and/or repeating third-hand information as first), or has no idea what they were actually doing.

My money is on the former. I notice a lot of that on here and Slashdot, more than any other forums. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm not sure what kind of nutjob you have to be to lie to people who know you're lying.

tribulation
Oct 26, 2007, 01:47 PM
Not sure if the pre-auth is the problem or that in some areas they are delaying delivery. I'll be p****d if I miss it as I'll have to wait until Monday or go to the Apple Store tonight and refuse delivery from FedEx.


I am hoping the second idea. i have had nothing but problems with fedex that past year. every package, probably 20 of them has had some problem or another. they routinely mark down that they have attempted delivery when they haven't. I have watched all day out my window before and then my status will change to "delivery attempted" out of nowhere. no attempt made. i would have thought that the trucks had gps or something that would track it so that drivers could not pull that type of crap. but obviously not or there is an easy way around it.

also: my status just says 'delivery exception'. there is no attempt listed this time. the estimated delivery now says today by 5:00. the fedex guy on the phone said before 4:30. i have a bad feeling that i will not have Leopard until monday!

LAST EDIT: anyone that has this problem listed with the exception on their fedex tracking page, what region are you from? maybe these are centered in a certain part of the country or a state or who knows?
IMO Apple made a HUGE mistake releasing this on a Friday because as far as I know those of us who miss it or those of us whom fedex is too lazy to get to today won't get their copy until monday ---- fedex i am pretty sure doesnt do sat deliveries. Apple should have either released it yesterday or monday. NOT a friday. that is bad planning no matter how you look at it

Pooldraft
Oct 26, 2007, 01:51 PM
Ok, I am excited but not let me suck your balls excited. The trillogy continues...

aLoC
Oct 26, 2007, 01:51 PM
Oh and the new Terminal is cool too!

That was a surprise for me too. Terminal has themes now!

kitki83
Oct 26, 2007, 01:53 PM
I would suggest guys, try doing constructive critisism and not moan. Leopard has definitely good and bad points, as everything in life

QFT

aLoC
Oct 26, 2007, 01:55 PM
LAST EDIT: anyone that has this problem listed with the exception on their fedex tracking page, what region are you from? maybe these are centered in a certain part of the country or a state or who knows?

When he finally shows up just ask him what the exception was.

I bet he was at your house earlier, picked up the box to take it to your door, and saw a sticker on it from Apple saying "do not deliver until afternoon." So he went back to his van and typed "delivery exception" in to the computer and drove away.

MacBoobsPro
Oct 26, 2007, 01:55 PM
Video encoding in Quicktime is MUCH faster. Instead of a 700mb AVI to mp4 taking 4 hours it takes about an hour. :)

aricher
Oct 26, 2007, 01:59 PM
A serious IT geek and hardcore PC user friend of mine received his copy via FedEx at 10:45 central time today. I believe he was installing on an older Mac Mini. Here are his initial comments:

"After 2 hour install - 40 minutes of which was a ridiculous self-validation of the DVD contents - it looks exactly the same with a different background.

The new file preview is just a slick 3D version of the slideshow mode in XP, and Windows Explorer has always been a better file manager than finder.

Bought the upgrade because Time Machine looked cool and I thought it would be useful. BUT... in order to use it I would have to let it FORMAT my 1TB external drive, which currently houses over 400 GB of my Alaska movies and pictures.

Now for the real anoyances...

It "required" 5GB but actually used 9 of the remaining 10 GB on the drive. And you thought Vista was bloated...

First thing to pop up after install was "You have updates to be installed" which I might understand a few weeks after the release date, not the day of release. Not feeling warm and fuzzy...

As you know you don't have to log in to the computer to view any files, but you do have to log in to install anything - including updates. The upgrade has decided I am no longer '___', the one and only account I ever created on this machine, I am now '________' which of course has no known password associated with it. Simple enough after I realized what it did (it locked me out after 3 tries) to change the user name, but each time that prompt comes up it reverts back to the other, worthless user name.

Another great "feature" the menu bar is now above the display on my 50" Sony HDTV so now I have to blindly click off screen to get the menu to drop down. Can I move the menu to the side or bottom of the screen? If possible I can't find it. Another point greatly in favor of Windows, the menu is on the window it pertains to so you don't have to push the mouse all the way to the top of the screen to work a window at the bottom of the screen, and it would be visible right now on all but maximized windows.


One thing in favor... it does seem to be as fast or faster than 10.4 despite he added graphics load.

I'll let you know if I find any other great features or failures."

tmoney468
Oct 26, 2007, 02:02 PM
I don't know why but my MBP is running a lot more hotter than it did in Tiger. I used to be around 50C after being on for a while and not doing much, and now I am at 63-64C doing about the same.

Also another thing I noticed, I have the 2.33Ghz version of the MBP and I installed 2x2GB of Ram...and I should only be able to use 3GB-3.3GB. But now I check the Activity Monitor and it says 4GB total memory now, where in Tiger it only showed 3GB. iStatPro still only reports around 3GB total, though.

eastcoastsurfer
Oct 26, 2007, 02:05 PM
My leopard showed up at 10:30 this morning just like the tracking said it would. I did have it delivered to my work though.

SthrnCmfrtr
Oct 26, 2007, 02:06 PM
I would suggest guys, try doing constructive critisism and not moan. Leopard has definitely good and bad points, as everything in life

Okay, how about they actually try to network wirelessly with the damn OS before they release it (http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1222&start=0)?

There's no reason that anyone should be having networking problems on Apple hardware with an Apple OS.

eme jota ce
Oct 26, 2007, 02:06 PM
Go into you system preferences, in Tiger you enable it via sharing, in Leopard I am not sure but I think it is under network (in system preferences)

Select the drive or folder on that machine and you are now sharing the device or folder.

Then go to the finder and select go to server (at work dont have my system), you should be able to map to the drive on that system.

Thanks for answering that question.

If anyone can confirm or tweak EagerDragon's answer (since ED did it from memory), please do... AFP looks like the safest solution until (if) Apple brings Time Machine (back) to shared airport disks.

Data
Oct 26, 2007, 02:07 PM
Gotta love pc guys who talk about mac stuff don't ya ;-)


PS stiil no answer to my earlier q, is it normal that while updating the screen goes blue and nothing els then the pointer is visible ?

petvas
Oct 26, 2007, 02:07 PM
A serious IT geek and hardcore PC user friend of mine received his copy via FedEx at 10:45 central time today. I believe he was installing on an older Mac Mini. Here are his initial comments:

"After 2 hour install - 40 minutes of which was a ridiculous self-validation of the DVD contents - it looks exactly the same with a different background.

The new file preview is just a slick 3D version of the slideshow mode in XP, and Windows Explorer has always been a better file manager than finder.

Bought the upgrade because Time Machine looked cool and I thought it would be useful. BUT... in order to use it I would have to let it FORMAT my 1TB external drive, which currently houses over 400 GB of my Alaska movies and pictures.

Now for the real anoyances...

It "required" 5GB but actually used 9 of the remaining 10 GB on the drive. And you thought Vista was bloated...

First thing to pop up after install was "You have updates to be installed" which I might understand a few weeks after the release date, not the day of release. Not feeling warm and fuzzy...

As you know you don't have to log in to the computer to view any files, but you do have to log in to install anything - including updates. The upgrade has decided I am no longer 'roser', the one and only account I ever created on this machine, I am now 'Russell Rose' which of course has no known password associated with it. Simple enough after I realized what it did (it locked me out after 3 tries) to change the user name, but each time that prompt comes up it reverts back to the other, worthless user name.

Another great "feature" the menu bar is now above the display on my 50" Sony HDTV so now I have to blindly click off screen to get the menu to drop down. Can I move the menu to the side or bottom of the screen? If possible I can't find it. Another point greatly in favor of Windows, the menu is on the window it pertains to so you don't have to push the mouse all the way to the top of the screen to work a window at the bottom of the screen, and it would be visible right now on all but maximized windows.


One thing in favor... it does seem to be as fast or faster than 10.4 despite he added graphics load.

I'll let you know if I find any other great features or failures."

He could skip the DVD check...

The slideshow mode in XP is a joke. You cannot compare these two features. I guess your friend isnt that much of an expert. It seems to me that he is a Windows user that cant get used to the Mac World...

tribulation
Oct 26, 2007, 02:08 PM
When he finally shows up just ask him what the exception was.

I bet he was at your house earlier, picked up the box to take it to your door, and saw a sticker on it from Apple saying "do not deliver until afternoon." So he went back to his van and typed "delivery exception" in to the computer and drove away.

is that really feasible? i am sure that would be apple's dream but probably not a real option. fedex would have a nightmare on their hands. plus i think they would have figured that out before driving up to my door wouldnt they? thatd be really stupid if not. but i'd put nothing past fedex from my past experience

CWallace
Oct 26, 2007, 02:11 PM
fedex i am pretty sure doesnt do sat deliveries.

They should, as UPS does, though it is a special service.

Also, when I bought my 2nd generation Nano from the Apple Store, FedEx Ground delivered it on a Saturday.

Steve Jobs=God
Oct 26, 2007, 02:11 PM
Just installed Leopard onto my machine, very impressed except that the finder is showing my next door neighbors PC on my shared machines, and i don't even know them, let alone have permission from them to access their computer!

bigjohn
Oct 26, 2007, 02:12 PM
I have the same problem. do you think it is really the pre sign thing though? I have it on my door just in case I don't hear it. My tracking said before 10:30 but then around 10:00 changed to the "delivery exception" crap. I called and they said it would be here before 5pm because "apple was shipping hundreds of thousands of them today and they have an agreement".
Maybe it is really the case? i don't know if it is related to leaving the slip or not but would really like to know if i should take mine off the door

Wow, so instead of delivering Leopard to me a few hours early, Apple is so petty as to 'except' morning deliveries and force them to the afternoon?

I took mine off the door, but now that I look, the reason for the exception is "Future delivery requested" - by whom (Apple)?

Weak, but not entirely unexpected in this new Apple world - I hope their share price is worth it.

plaine300
Oct 26, 2007, 02:13 PM
I finally got it installed after 3 failed attempts. It did not successfully transfer my settings either which kinda stinks. Then when I ran it for the first time, I tried running Safari and it crashed right away. So I sent a report to Apple. Opened Mail, crashed as well. Doing all this on a G4 which meets the requirements, so I'd think it would work. I've resigned to the fact that I just need to hope those new Mac Pros are announced next week.

As for comments that the OS is faster, that typically happens with Apple's upgrades for 2 reasons. First, they make the code better and 2, all those old OS updates they've been putting out over the past month have slowed it down. Guess nobody noticed just how terrible those updates have made things run on your machines. I have 3 machines here at home and have relationships with several other businesses in town who run Macs. We all (but a few) foolishly continued to update our OS when the software updates came through. One set of users did not, saying that was going to break the system since the new OS was coming out, and Apple would want you to upgrade and then feel like things are expontentially zippier than what you've been used to for the past few updates while they slowed things down. Well, that crew that didn't update past like v5 of the last OS are laughing at us now and we've learned our lesson. Their apps still run great and have for several months, while ours continued to choke more and more with each passing software update. With iphone and now this, I've learned lessons about early adoption and have downgraded my fanboy status with Apple to just someone who really like the products. My zealot days are gone.

ShavenYak
Oct 26, 2007, 02:14 PM
So, Classic doesn't come with Leopard. But, if I upgrade my existing Tiger installation, with Classic already installed, is it still going to work? This will determine whether or not I can upgrade my Mac Mini, which does double duty as a file server and as a machine for my little girl to play games on - many of which require Classic.

Jetson
Oct 26, 2007, 02:15 PM
A serious IT geek and hardcore PC user friend of mine received his copy via FedEx at 10:45 central time today. I believe he was installing on an older Mac Mini. Here are his initial comments:

"After 2 hour install - 40 minutes of which was a ridiculous self-validation of the DVD contents - it looks exactly the same with a different background.

The new file preview is just a slick 3D version of the slideshow mode in XP, and Windows Explorer has always been a better file manager than finder.

Bought the upgrade because Time Machine looked cool and I thought it would be useful. BUT... in order to use it I would have to let it FORMAT my 1TB external drive, which currently houses over 400 GB of my Alaska movies and pictures.

Now for the real anoyances...

It "required" 5GB but actually used 9 of the remaining 10 GB on the drive. And you thought Vista was bloated...

First thing to pop up after install was "You have updates to be installed" which I might understand a few weeks after the release date, not the day of release. Not feeling warm and fuzzy...

As you know you don't have to log in to the computer to view any files, but you do have to log in to install anything - including updates. The upgrade has decided I am no longer 'roser', the one and only account I ever created on this machine, I am now 'Russell Rose' which of course has no known password associated with it. Simple enough after I realized what it did (it locked me out after 3 tries) to change the user name, but each time that prompt comes up it reverts back to the other, worthless user name.

Another great "feature" the menu bar is now above the display on my 50" Sony HDTV so now I have to blindly click off screen to get the menu to drop down. Can I move the menu to the side or bottom of the screen? If possible I can't find it. Another point greatly in favor of Windows, the menu is on the window it pertains to so you don't have to push the mouse all the way to the top of the screen to work a window at the bottom of the screen, and it would be visible right now on all but maximized windows.


One thing in favor... it does seem to be as fast or faster than 10.4 despite he added graphics load.

I'll let you know if I find any other great features or failures."

Gosh, reading this makes me want to cancel my Amazon.com order, but it's already in "Shipping Soon" status (which means the order will sit around locked over the weekend before finally making it out the door) :o

stoutboy1
Oct 26, 2007, 02:15 PM
When he finally shows up just ask him what the exception was.

I bet he was at your house earlier, picked up the box to take it to your door, and saw a sticker on it from Apple saying "do not deliver until afternoon." So he went back to his van and typed "delivery exception" in to the computer and drove away.

I called 888gofedex and said mine shows an exception. The lady knew exactly what my package was. (She says your package is Leopard right) Apperently apple has told fedex that its fine not to deliver by 1030am because there are so many so it just means that you will get it by 430pm or at least thats fedexs explination...

damienvfx
Oct 26, 2007, 02:19 PM
Just installed Leopard onto my machine, very impressed except that the finder is showing my next door neighbors PC on my shared machines, and i don't even know them, let alone have permission from them to access their computer!

That's awesome, that means they have been stealing your internet connection! I would ask them to help you pay the bill if you trust the guy/girl. Otherwise you REALLY should close your network.

Data
Oct 26, 2007, 02:20 PM
Just installed Leopard onto my machine, very impressed except that the finder is showing my next door neighbors PC on my shared machines, and i don't even know them, let alone have permission from them to access their computer!

He is probably on your network without you knowing it then ;-).

PS how did you install, upgrade or not, and if you did use upgrade, how long did yu have the blue screen on , i'm looking at it for 45 minutes now, and i wonder if something went wrong maybe? .

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 02:21 PM
Gotta love pc guys who talk about mac stuff don't ya ;-)


PS stiil no answer to my earlier q, is it normal that while updating the screen goes blue and nothing els then the pointer is visible ?
That goes both ways, especially when it comes to Mac guys talking about anything involving a little tinkering.

Exhibit A - the post above about having his wireless network completely wide open to the world.

Much Ado
Oct 26, 2007, 02:21 PM
Just installed Leopard onto my machine, very impressed except that the finder is showing my next door neighbors PC on my shared machines, and i don't even know them, let alone have permission from them to access their computer!

Oooh...busted! Go round and visit them, i would.

jackc
Oct 26, 2007, 02:22 PM
Just installed Leopard onto my machine, very impressed except that the finder is showing my next door neighbors PC on my shared machines, and i don't even know them, let alone have permission from them to access their computer!

Would they have to turn file sharing on for that to happen?

tribulation
Oct 26, 2007, 02:23 PM
Wow, so instead of delivering Leopard to me a few hours early, Apple is so petty as to 'except' morning deliveries and force them to the afternoon?

I took mine off the door, but now that I look, the reason for the exception is "Future delivery requested" - by whom (Apple)?

Weak, but not entirely unexpected in this new Apple world - I hope their share price is worth it.

if apple has that much power to alter fedex to a certain hour, that is almost impressive. yet really f ing annoying. but since so many others have gotten their copies i dont think it was intentional on apples part. maybe fedex really is overloaded? not that it is any excuse because they had fair warning and shipping on time is what they DO.

if my status does change however to 'delivery attempted', which has happened so many times with fedex i think i am putting a void on my credit card and buying it at the store tonight.

Data
Oct 26, 2007, 02:25 PM
That goes both ways, especially when it comes to Mac guys talking about anything involving a little tinkering.

Exhibit A - the post above about having his wireless network completely wide open to the world.

Agreed ;-).

PS still don't know if the blue screen with upgrade install, is normal or not, i'm getting worried guys, does nobody know ?

kitki83
Oct 26, 2007, 02:25 PM
For those getting the Family pack, how does it work. I got several people who want to do family pack. Is it one disc with 5 registrations, or 5 discs for each person? I went to Apple and the shopping cart does not explain this.


Just wanted to know since people can move or may need copy of the disc at any moment.

overcast
Oct 26, 2007, 02:27 PM
For those getting the Family pack, how does it work. I got several people who want to do family pack. Is it one disc with 5 registrations, or 5 discs for each person? I went to Apple and the shopping cart does not explain this.


Just wanted to know since people can move or may need copy of the disc at any moment.
It's one disc with a 5 machine license. Those several people must be living in the same house. This isn't for bulk orders between friends.

matticus008
Oct 26, 2007, 02:28 PM
A serious IT geek and hardcore PC user friend of mine received his copy
A serious geek and hardcore whiner, maybe, but these are some seriously ill-informed observations and rehashing of the old "I don't like the top menu, waaahhh (and other I Wish It Were Windows poutings)" all over again.
"After 2 hour install - 40 minutes of which was a ridiculous self-validation of the DVD contents
So skip it.
it looks exactly the same with a different background.
Just like every other release? Just like every Windows release since 1995?
The new file preview is just a slick 3D version of the slideshow mode in XP,
Or the one in Tiger. What was he expecting out of file previews, exactly? It shows the file--the only innovation is opening file types beyond simple image formats and PDFs.
BUT... in order to use it I would have to let it FORMAT my 1TB external drive
Wrong. Good grief, just create a new partition on it using the new tools, and choose that new partition for Time Machine. His precious photos are saved.
It "required" 5GB but actually used 9 of the remaining 10 GB on the drive. And you thought Vista was bloated...
Did he archive his previous installation? Did he check swap file usage? I'm going to assume he didn't check these things, given his amateur understanding of everything else.
"You have updates to be installed" which I might understand a few weeks after the release date, not the day of release. Not feeling warm and fuzzy...
No OS X updates...just updates for the rest of his system that he hadn't installed yet.
The upgrade has decided I am no longer 'roser', the one and only account I ever created on this machine, I am now 'Russell Rose' which of course has no known password associated with it.
This is where he loses all credibility whatsoever. Short name/user name. Come on. The password is the same, unless he did something very wrong.

Sounds like he's a Windows user out of his element and complaining about things he doesn't understand and wanting things to be the way they were on XP. If he wanted things to be like XP, maybe he should use XP.

Data
Oct 26, 2007, 02:29 PM
For those getting the Family pack, how does it work. I got several people who want to do family pack. Is it one disc with 5 registrations, or 5 discs for each person? I went to Apple and the shopping cart does not explain this.


Just wanted to know since people can move or may need copy of the disc at any moment.

With tiger i got one disk is all i now, with the family pack. Registrations ?

kitki83
Oct 26, 2007, 02:30 PM
It's one disc with a 5 machine license. Those several people must be living in the same house. This isn't for bulk orders between friends.

Thats what I wanted to know Famiy Pack or Family that lives with you Pack? Since in few years we will all be on our own.

yoppie
Oct 26, 2007, 02:30 PM
Agreed ;-).

PS still don't know if the blue screen with upgrade install, is normal or not, i'm getting worried guys, does nobody know ?

LOL, mine did that earlier but everything turned out ok. Just leave it alone.