xti or 40d senior citizen

[jer446]

Im looking into getting a camera for my grandfather.. I have been trying to convince him to switch to digital for the past 5 years, but he has always sworn by his 50 year old nikon. All of a sudden, he is interested. He does not know how to use a computer, so ease of use is extremely important. He basically will take the card out of the camera, bring it in to the store, and have the pictures printed.

In your opinion, which camera is easier to use? He gets frustrated with technology pretty easily.

I want him to get the xti body with a different lens, but he likes the 40d with kit lens he saw in the paper. He does not want to switch lenses.

Additionally, he asked me if canon offers any time of "lessons" to teach him how to use the camera, besides the manual. If there are no lessons, any videos?

Any other advice? I can get a decent deal on canon's so i would like to stay with them.

[JNB]

Actually, if he's looking for that much simplicity and lack of interchangeability, have you considered a higher-end point-n-shoot?

The kit lenses on both the Canon & Nikon are "OK", but really junk if he's more than a snapshot taker. But, if he's not interested in changing, why have a separate body/glass anyway? A lot of the better P&S cameras have pretty fair little lenses on them (no worse than the kit lenses), and a surprising amount of features.

Plus, if it turns out he doesn't want to go digital, a P&S is a lighter investment than a DSLR.

[l33r0y]

Your question is better suited to a photography forum, such as dpreview.com

But in a nutshell, I'd spend the money on the better lens, such as the 17-85 EF-S, as its a good all-rounder walkabout.

[jessica.]

I am going to have to jump on the high-end point and shoot bandwagon here. I was once asked about a camera by a senior citizen who had an old film camera (SLR). She wanted the photos that you can get form an SLR but not the hassle. I directed her to a few, she tried some out and ended up with the Nikon 8900 or whatever that model was. $1000 out the door at the time (this was last year) and she loves it. It really was a good camera. I would certainly recommend a high end fixed lens and don't call it a point and shoot, they get wiggly. Call it a fixed lens. ;)

[Abstract]

If he's looking for "simple", my subjective opinion is for him to avoid the Canon 40D. I realize that many Canon shooters will disagree with me, and will reply with, "It just takes some time to get used to it, that's all." However, in terms of being intuitive, I think your grandfather is much better off with a Nikon D80, or maybe even a 400D. The D80 is better than the 400D because the viewfinder is larger and brighter. This is important for all photographers, but even more important for older people with poorer vision.

Even my friend, who has spent years using his 350D, needed a week to get used to the layout of the 40D. Why? Because going from the 4-way directional button to the scrolling wheel, along with some other design differences, wasn't natural for him yet. He learned the layout within 1-2 days, but it took him a week and a few gigs to get used to shooting with it.

For me, being an (ex) Nikon D50 user, handling a D80 or D200 is entirely intuitive. Sure, placement of the buttons takes some getting use to, but if I'm given 3-4 seconds to look at the buttons, I can change the settings quite easily. The only Nikon that wasn't intuitive for me was the D40 and D40x, but that's understandable seeing as how the D40 is unique to the Nikon DSLR world in that you need to use the LCD.

[seany916]

I respect Jessica's opinion, but you have to go with your knowledge of GPa's personality. Would he feel liimited by a "fixie"? A dSLR will allow him room to grow with photography. If he has no intention of growing in photography, then go with what you know and get what best suits his needs.

If he already knows how to operate a 50 year old Nikon decently... then a dSLR will be a breeze.

If a dSLR is in the cards for him, start him on a low end one with a kit lens. If he really takes to it, sell it and get him a higher end one. older people tend to commit longer to their interests and hobbies. And take better care of their stuff.

He can always shoot on the "Auto" setting which gets decent results (don't get me started). The higher end POSs, I mean Point & Shoots, can be quite pricey as well. With the entry level dSLRs, lower price better camera on average.

Kit lens + Auto mode = great results +flexibility

I once observed a kind of camera/lens envy at a wedding when a guy with a P&S with extended lens (it stuck out like 5 inches) was bragging about how much reach(zoom) his camera had. My friend walked up with his 70-200VR on his D200 attached to my mono next to him, oblivious to what he had just said to the 3 people around him. The guy shut up really quick. Not that anything was wrong with his camera, but inside the building we were in, with lighting that wasn't so great, he didn't have an ice cube's chance in hell of getting a decent shot with his "fully extended" fixie lens handheld.

That's stuck with me ever since in regards to higher end P&S cameras. I always just ignored them, but I'm noticing more and more SLRs in the hands of amateurs along with pretty pricey lenses. I hope this trend continues, as volume will hopefully keep bringing the price of equipment lower & lower and the average joe can better appreciate what a good photographer can do.

[jessica.]

I respect Jessica's opinion, but you have to go with your knowledge of GPa's personality. Would he feel liimited by a "fixie"? A dSLR will allow him room to grow with photography.

If he already knows how to operate a 50 year old Nikon decently... then a dSLR will be a breeze.

Start him on a low end one with a kit lens. If he really takes to it, sell it and get him a higher end one. older people tend to commit longer to their interests and hobbies. And take better care of their stuff.

(no offense jess)None taken. ;) I'm not married to the idea that anyone over 55 must stay away from a dSLR, just a thought. Hard enough to buy a camera for a family member, let alone a complete stranger's family member!

[colinmack]

If he has a Nikon film body now, I would think that would lean him towards a D80 instead of going the Canon route (especially if he has other lenses that could be used)...image quality is almost identical between Canon/Nikon now (especially if you shoot raw and eliminate the different approaches of in-camera processing), but he might have an ergonomic preference/familiarity with Nikon (which many subjectively find a bit better than Canon).

Also, if he never wants to change lenses, Nikon has a stabilized 18-200 which is surprisingly fairly good optically, where Canon doesn't have an alternative for crop bodies.

Given your description of what he wants to do, a D80+18-200 is probably the best fit. If you/he absolutely want to go Canon, an XTi is probably more appropriate - I would be shocked if he could tell the difference in regular prints, it would be cheaper and a bit lighter, and he could either get a 3rd-party superzoom or go with something like the 17-85 IS (which I'm not a big fan of...decent walkaround range, but too many quality compromises for the price).

Cheers, Colin.

[shieldyoureyes]

Personally, I'd recommend for him to stick with the 50 year old Nikon SLR...Absolutely nothing wrong wrong with that as long as it is still functioning. I use an old Nikon F3 for 75% of what I do. I still grab it over my D80 unless I absolutely need the AF or to use a speedlight.

And no, I am not an old film user, I started out on digital, I just prefer the results film provides me.

I don't know the man, and don't know how willing/fast he will learn all the technology. But for someone who does not know how to use a computer, I imagine getting a DSLR would be quite a challenge.

[cube]

I also don't understand why you want him to switch from Nikon to Canon.

[cube]

Maybe an idea would be to get him a used F100 first, and if he is comfortable with that, then switch to digital.

[Cave Man]

In your opinion, which camera is easier to use? He gets frustrated with technology pretty easily.

As long as you tell him to keep it on the green box, they're both just as easy to use and will give essentially identical results.

I want him to get the xti body with a different lens, but he likes the 40d with kit lens he saw in the paper. He does not want to switch lenses.

For the cost you're talking about, I'd suggest you get him the XTi with the Sigma 18-200 OS. Won't need to take the lens off and will have the benefit of optical stabilization. Ball-park cost of about $1200, sans card.

Additionally, he asked me if canon offers any time of "lessons" to teach him how to use the camera, besides the manual. If there are no lessons, any videos?

Not sure what kind of lessons he wants, other than camera functions. Shooting digital or film utilizes the same skills. The difference is really in post processing, which he apparently has no interest in. He'll probably want to shoot in JPEG only since it undergoes in-camera sharpening. Probably needs to also learn about other in-camera processing tasks, too. Best place to go for such information is the Canon Digital Photography Forum (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/) (POTN).

[Cave Man]

I also don't understand why you want him to switch from Nikon to Canon.

OP's OP says he get's good prices on Canon.

[Clix Pix]

Since he has used a Nikon SLR in the past, get him the D80 and the 18-200mm VR lens. That will provide him with an easy-to-use,fair lightweight and flexible camera (for when he later decides he DOES want to do more than use one lens all the time) while giving him a good lens range of 18-200mm now. He won't have to change the lens until he is ready to do so.

[cube]

Or a used D50 or D70s.

[ChrisA]

Im looking into getting a camera for my grandfather.. I have been trying to convince him to switch to digital for the past 5 years, but he has always sworn by his 50 year old nikon. All of a sudden, he is interested. He does not know how to use a computer, so ease of use is extremely important. He basically will take the card out of the camera, bring it in to the store, and have the pictures printed.

In your opinion, which camera is easier to use? He gets frustrated with technology pretty easily.


Hands down it's the Nikon. If he has been shooting Nikon for 50 years he must have bought a low serial number "F" model and might have some lenses that will work with the D40. They will not meter or auto-focus but then a Nikon F body has no meter and does not auto focus either. He will feel more "at home" with the Nikon.

If he has any flashes, they will work too. Of course in full manual mode
but then that is what he is used to. I have a Nikon F2 and I can use several of my 30 year old lenses with my D50.

[cube]

Maybe an idea would be to get him a used F100 first, and if he is comfortable with that, then switch to digital.

The F80/N80 also has two command wheels and it costs much less, around $100 ($200 like new). I think this is the best option. You will lose very little if you later decide to change it for a digital one.

[seany916]

The D80 with the 18-200VR would be a REALLY good combination for the money.

If he can wait, he can get the upgrade to the D80 in about 2-8 months if he's not in a rush.

The D40 package w/ kit lens would be 1/3 the price.

[cube]

The F80/N80 also has two command wheels and it costs much less, around $100 ($200 like new). I think this is the best option. You will lose very little if you later decide to change it for a digital one.

To meter with manual lenses you need the F100.

But don't put Pre-AI lenses on either or you might damage the camera!

On digital, to meter with AI lenses you need the D200.

Same caveat about Pre-AI lenses for digital, except it seems for D40 and D40x, but which cannot meter with manual lenses.

[Cave Man]

Well, so much for staying on topic...

The OP is looking for a Canon, as stated in the original post.

[cube]

The main point is ease of use, not Canon.

Given that he just wants to use some kit lens, I still think the best is an F80/N80 + cheap zoom, given that it is similar to the past and future, as a first/trial step.

A 40D kit is a lot of money for something that he might not like.

[cube]

Did you clear up the issue of the kit lens range on the 40D body or does he believe it starts at 28mm equiv.?

[Lord Blackadder]

My advice: get the Rebel XTi body, and then go to a camera store and try different zoom lenses until he finds one he likes. The 40D is overkill for this situation, IHMO - though if money isn't a big obstacle the 40D should work too...

Make sure he fully understands the whole crop factor situation.

[OreoCookie]

You may want to give him the opportunity to put his hands on other cameras from other brands as well. In particular, since he already owns a Nikon, perhaps he would want a Nikon again.

[Grimace]

If technology is confusing, keep him away from Windows - regardless of the Nikon/Canon choice!

[Westside guy]

Hey folks,

I suspect when the OP said "40D" he actually meant D40.

[Cave Man]

Hey folks,

I suspect when the OP said "40D" he actually meant D40.

No, he said he wanted a Canon, thus 40D is correct.

[Abstract]

Flabbergasted.

A man who doesn't know how to use a computer is going to get the not-so-user-friendly 40D. I'm not saying it's impossible for him, but different design approach than Nikon.

Again, get a D80. I don't really agree that film is the way to go. At this point in his life, and from the description given by the OP, the man probably just wants to take photos, plug his camera into a computer, and view them immediately.

[ChrisA]

.. he has always sworn by his 50 year old nikon. All of a sudden, he is interested. He does not know how to use a computer, so ease of use is extremely important.


I wonder how many people here know what SLRs were like 50 years ago. I'm kind of a collector.

Funny you should use the words "Ease of Use". 50 Years ago cameras did not even have built-in light meters. and a "quick return mirror" was a big feature in a camera. I actually own a 50 year old SLR. (made is 1956, I think. The camera is older than I am) My D50 is a lot easier to use than the old Exacta.

BTW I think the two SLRs sold new for the same price -SLRs were hugely expensive in the 50's, close to the price of a new car. 50 years ago very few people had SLRs.

Here is a picture of what I have. About the only SLR there was 50 yeas ago
http://www.exakta.org/org35/orgvarexvx/vxversione4.pdf
Later Nikon introduced the "F", It is so much better built. Much more sturdy
but heaver. A Japanese truck compared to a German sports car. I've got one
of these Early Nikons too. http://www.cameraquest.com/fhistory.htm

[Cave Man]

At this point in his life, and from the description given by the OP, the man probably just wants to take photos, plug his camera into a computer, and view them immediately.

According to the OP, grandpa wants to take the flash card to a digital photo processor and get prints made from it - he doesn't want to do any computer work. This really isn't any different than the "old days" where you shot a roll of film and dropped it off to have prints made.

The truth is, we know nothing about grandpa's photo skills or what he shot with. Unless I missed something, there's no mention of his film camera other than it's a Nikon. Could be an SLR or a rangefinder or some other. All this is sort of irrelevant. If he's been shooting for 50 years, then he knows about exposure and composure; the two essentials of photography. He simply needs to know how to control the new DSLR's functions.

[Westside guy]

You know, for the way he intends to use this new digital camera - there's no real advantage over shooting film because he's basically doing the exact same thing in terms of handling (just substitute a memory card for a 35mm film canister). Ever considered showing him how easy it'd be to use iPhoto, maybe on a low-end iMac? Even if all he did was use iPhoto, he could have the screensaver rotate through his favorite photos. It'd be like a really nice digital picture frame.

70 isn't too old to learn this stuff.

[Abstract]

You're right. I thought he was going to put that card into his own computer.


If he owns a computer (WinXP or Mac), I still think an easy-to-use DSLR is better for him than film. Apparently he wants to take the SD/CF card to a photo shop and have them print it directly. Why? Probably because he thinks it's too difficult to use a computer and he doesn't want to bother.

While this man supposedly gets frustrated with computers, he may quickly realize that moving the photos from camera to computer is easier than he originally thought. A digital photography class would show him how easy it is for him to view files on a computer before getting them printed. He doesn't want to learn how to use a computer, but can he plug a camera into a computer? You don't even need to know how to use a computer to do that.

Now that I think about it, a D40x + 18-200 mm VR may be better than a D80 for him. Pushing a button and using the jog dial/wheel may actually be difficult.* Reading off the LCD would also be easier for his eyes.




*I'm assuming he's as technologically incapable as my mum.

[Jdot]

If i were you i would find a used nikon d50. I tried using a friends rebel xti and I had to spend countless time fixing color and lighting in the photos i took. Especially since he already has a Nikon film slr most of his old lenses should be compatible with it and stay away from the d40 series as this really isn't a true SLR more of a "Consumer" based camera that you can change the lenses on.

[M@lew]

Here's a "user" video he might want to check out regarding how to use the 40D.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EzRU4KG-jE4

[pdxflint]

... I'm not married to the idea that anyone over 55 must stay away from a dSLR, just a thought...
Hey... I'm glad you're not married to the idea of 55 and over being ineligible to understand anything digital...;) Some of the best photographers in the world are well over that age, and I'd bet more than a few of them use dSLRs, and well. Heck, some can even turn on an iPod and boot their laptops... amazing, huh! :cool:

[Bigtree]

If he doesn't like technology, he will struggle with a digital. I have a 20D and the new XTI (400D). If he has small hands, and doesn't want to carry much weight, the XTI. Both are have quite a learning curve, as well as Nikon digitals.

[BanjoBanker]

I am here to take up for the over 50 crowd. I use a Nikon D70 and an F3. Once in a blue moon I will take my Leica IIIc out for a few rolls of film. My 87 year old father took my D70 on a trip to DC last week and he is very happy with the results. I set it to auto and told him to leave it alone and shoot away (4 Gb card shooting jpegs for him) and he would be fine. Well, he thought with all the options he should try them out. He switched to manual and told me he liked it better. He left the auto focus on however. If the OP's grandfather has been shooting Nikon SLRs for over 50 years, he will pick up on a dSLR a lot quicker than most people think. :cool:

[Clix Pix]

Another "golden oldie" here! I have been using SLR cameras since the early 1970's and computers since the mid-1980's. I went through a phase where I set down the SLRs and used only a series of Coolpix cameras for a while -- my introduction to digital imaging. When I picked up the D70 for the first time it had been about eight or nine years since I'd handled an SLR, and I was gratified at how quickly some things came back to me. Once you learn the basics they stick with you.....

My mother was 92 years old when she got her first "computer," an internet-ready device called an iOpener. A couple years later she was ready for her first "real" computer, a basic Dell something-or-other. She had no problems learning how to surf the web or doing email.

So I wouldn't be too quick to say that the original poster's grandfather isn't going to be able to handle a DSLR or even a computer....

[Bigtree]

It doesn't matter your age. Is it a matter of embracing technology or not.

Some want to and some don't.

[MacUserSince87]

Quality-wise anything from a 5MP point and shoot on up will likely meet his needs so my advice would be to take your grandfather down to a store like Best Buy where he can handle a variety of cameras styles and find the one which he is most comfortable with in terms of ergonomics, viewfinder, LCD playback, etc.

If he is accustomed to shooting negative film which is very forgiving of overexposure he may be very disapointed in the results he will get from digital unless he develops some basic editing chops. So before throwing money at the problem you might consider letting him try your camera for a day or so then process the files directly out of the camera. He might decide the whole digital thing is too much bother.