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MacRumors
Nov 5, 2007, 07:16 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With Mac OS X Leopard a little over a week old, Apple has already begun making preparations for seeding the next revision of Mac OS X (10.5.1) to testers.

No details on the revision are yet available, but Apple has traditionally pushed out updates quickly after initial release. Apple released the first .1 update (http://www.macrumors.com/2005/05/16/os-x-10-4-1-now-available/) to Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) less than three weeks after its initial release.

Meanwhile, we are still waiting for the Mac OS X 10.4.11 update which has been expected any day now. Apple even references (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306489) the unreleased update in a number of technotes.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/05/apple-preparing-for-mac-os-x-10-5-1/)



Eidorian
Nov 5, 2007, 07:16 PM
I want some LDAP fixes.

NFS works great though! For once...

queshy
Nov 5, 2007, 07:17 PM
cool, probably the TM-airdisk thing will be sorted out, and maybe we'll get back the star wars hologram effect (even though we can already sorta get it...). Truth is I'm hoping that they'll sort out some of the interface sluggishnesses.

valdore
Nov 5, 2007, 07:18 PM
How long until it hits the shelves?

IEatApples
Nov 5, 2007, 07:18 PM
Great! :)

… it's badly needed! (things like repairing permissions not working is serious!)

PruneTracy
Nov 5, 2007, 07:19 PM
'Bout dang time Apople did something about this!

Grimace
Nov 5, 2007, 07:19 PM
I've done an archive-install and then clean install and I still have major issues with freezing and horizontal banding (lines of random pixels). Aperture is all jacked up with the thumbnail previews not always displaying the correct image (to say nothing its problems with Time Machine)

I really hope this comes out soon, I feel like I should have waited...

xUKHCx
Nov 5, 2007, 07:20 PM
hopes the airport issues i'm having are fixed with this update.

mikey.f
Nov 5, 2007, 07:22 PM
Any updates are appreciated, although I have to say (*knocks on the wood*) that I don't have any major problems after doing a regular upgrade! And minor troubles just come and go every now and then, but nothing that would make me wanna throw the computer out of the window =).

Sp3shl K
Nov 5, 2007, 07:22 PM
well i'll worry myself about this if i ever get my utd copy of leopard! sent the 25th and still not here!:mad:

SolRayz
Nov 5, 2007, 07:23 PM
^airport issues...to put it mildly. Ive had such bad luck with AEBS lately than Im thinking of reverting back to Tiger.:mad:

twoodcc
Nov 5, 2007, 07:25 PM
i hope this fixes Madden 08 for Mac. right now it basically doesn't work at all in Leopard

zombitronic
Nov 5, 2007, 07:27 PM
Apople. Almost as good as pwned.

Padriac
Nov 5, 2007, 07:27 PM
What airport issues are people having? I have an Airport Extreme Base Station and haven't had any problems.

I HAVE had my bluetooth mouse and keyboard suddenly lose connection a few times since my Leopard install, but this may just be a coincidence.

ErikGrim
Nov 5, 2007, 07:28 PM
I'm somewhat glad that we've gone from FTFF to FTFFR, but god damn it Apple: Fix the ******** FrontRow!

joegomolski
Nov 5, 2007, 07:30 PM
Hum,

I'm having problems with Mail.

Mailboxes disappearing.

And 3 copies, in Mail, of "On My Mac" In the main screen left hand column.

Why 3 copies of the same mailboxes?

And if I delete 1 of the multiple "On My Mac" all of them disappear, I then have to go back to import mailboxes.


Anyone else with this problem?


Joe G.

Eraserhead
Nov 5, 2007, 07:32 PM
I'm somewhat glad that we've gone from FTFF to FTFFR, but god damn it Apple: Fix the ******** FrontRow!

What's wrong with it? It looks nice from my brief dabble.

!¡ V ¡!
Nov 5, 2007, 07:34 PM
well i'll worry myself about this if i ever get my utd copy of leopard! sent the 25th and still not here!:mad:

You and I are in the same boat my friend. :(

Surprised how long it take the postal service to deliver anything these days.

xUKHCx
Nov 5, 2007, 07:35 PM
What airport issues are people having? I have an Airport Extreme Base Station and haven't had any problems..

Not remembering the connection upon waking and then the dreaded "connection timeout"

DiamondMac
Nov 5, 2007, 07:38 PM
Oddly enough, my Airport has worked twice as good since upgrading to Leopard.

It was shotty before and now works much better

Jetson
Nov 5, 2007, 07:43 PM
So far I'm favorably impressed with Leopard. Not bad at all for a new OS.

But I have run into a few minor problems too.

As IEatApples pointed out, Disk Utility won't repair permissions.

And the Dock won't redraw properly after running a graphics intensive game. I keep my dock at the bottom, and after running Jinni Zeala, the Dock icons are covered with green blobs. Moving the Dock to the side and then back to the bottom clears it up.

The Leopard installer did not retain my mail SMTP settings. I tried to send an email and the send button was grayed-out. After a little searching around I discovered that my outgoing server settings were blank.

Of course, Finder no longer automatically remembers window settings - it applies one setting globally, unless you goto info and check a button to always use a setting for a particular window. This isn't really a bug, but a feature loss.

Time Machine could use a few more user options, such as choosing the frequency of backups, having a backup now button, etc. Again, it's not a bug but a feature nice to have.

Overall though I really like Leopard. Can't wait to see what's in this first revision.

Foxglove9
Nov 5, 2007, 07:49 PM
Please Apple hurry! I'm reluctant to start reinstalling all my apps in my clean install of Leopard. Because if this next release doesn't sort out a lot of my issues I'm going back to Tiger until Leopard runs as good.

bupsy
Nov 5, 2007, 07:49 PM
Why is it that when i want to rename a file it doesn't select the file extension??? This is almost as frustrating as when finder is in cover flow view and holding down the arrow key to move to a certain character while renaming a file and having cover flow scroll to a different file in the direction that is pressed. WHERE ARE MY OPTIONS TO TURN THIS KIND OF STUFF ON/OFF?

...but all in all i am a very happy customer.

/dev/toaster
Nov 5, 2007, 07:49 PM
I really hope they fix the Timemachine issues regarding SMB, AFP (non-leopard) and serving off Airdisks.

Flash is also really unstable, 99% of my Firefox or Safari crashes are due to it.

Mail.app stops checking new mail every once in a while, the worst then about it is you don't realize it until you restart.

Quillz
Nov 5, 2007, 07:54 PM
Would be nice if 10.5.1 restored the functionality that Stacks had in the earlier developer builds.

kitki83
Nov 5, 2007, 08:02 PM
Umm and 10.4.11 is where in all of this? Srsly when are we getting it since it was already been released.

I am screwed if I upgrade and screwed if I dont.

kbmb
Nov 5, 2007, 08:02 PM
I'm hoping they give us back the OPTION to use stacks the old Tiger way.

-Kevin

mrparet
Nov 5, 2007, 08:03 PM
Would be nice if 10.5.1 restored the functionality that Stacks had in the earlier developer builds.

What functionality was removed?

chris200x9
Nov 5, 2007, 08:03 PM
Why is it that when i want to rename a file it doesn't select the file extension??? This is almost as frustrating as when finder is in cover flow view and holding down the arrow key to move to a certain character while renaming a file and having cover flow scroll to a different file in the direction that is pressed. WHERE ARE MY OPTIONS TO TURN THIS KIND OF STUFF ON/OFF?

...but all in all i am a very happy customer.

thats an awesome feature! if want to change extension you still can but it only selecting before the extension when you hit enter is great for quick re-names. I really like this feature.

ErikGrim
Nov 5, 2007, 08:03 PM
What's wrong with it? It looks nice from my brief dabble.Try a bit more than a brief dabble and it's shortcomings will soon come to light...

Arnel
Nov 5, 2007, 08:04 PM
I'm having problems with Mail.
And 3 copies, in Mail, of "On My Mac" In the main screen left hand column. Why 3 copies of the same mailboxes?
And if I delete 1 of the multiple "On My Mac" all of them disappear, I then have to go back to import mailboxes.
Anyone else with this problem?

I've been having this as well, but I found the following fix mentioned on a website somewhere: Grab the topmost On My Mac section header, and drag it down to the bottom of the source list, just below the last item. All the other On My Mac sections should disappear, leaving you with just one.

Neil.
a.k.a. Arnel

Eidorian
Nov 5, 2007, 08:04 PM
This (http://tomkarpik.com/articles/massive-data-loss-bug-in-leopard/) doesn't look good.

xUKHCx
Nov 5, 2007, 08:05 PM
Try a bit more than a brief dabble and it's shortcomings will soon come to light...

and these are?

ErikGrim
Nov 5, 2007, 08:07 PM
Of course, Finder no longer automatically remembers window settings - it applies one setting globally, unless you goto info and check a button to always use a setting for a particular window. This isn't really a bug, but a feature loss.No, that's a feature GAIN. The Finder is a lot less erratic now. Just set the folder's you need to have a certain view by default using the method described and you are sweet.

ErikGrim
Nov 5, 2007, 08:07 PM
and these are?
Multiple:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1164&start=0

SciTeach
Nov 5, 2007, 08:10 PM
'Bout dang time Apople did something about this!

Yea...I caught that too.:D

Good news! I'm still holding off until they "smooth the edges" out of Leopard.

tribulation
Nov 5, 2007, 08:12 PM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:

bugs galore, stacks :mad:, graphics lines everywere, a total slacked off piece of you know what

except for my daughters mac i am back in 10.4. thats never happened for me but never has a mac os been this horrible :confused:

i am scared that :apple: in 10.5.1 wont fix stacks and put the menu back in it so it works in a usable way. it is a joke now and sucks suck sucks. Im all good with change but only change for the better. stacks is not better and is a nightmare

what was :apple: thinking???? :eek:

ErikGrim
Nov 5, 2007, 08:12 PM
What functionality was removed?View the original Leopard Finder introduction video. In it you can drag any number of arbitrary items to the dock and create a stack. Now stacks are just folders :/

Analog Kid
Nov 5, 2007, 08:19 PM
This will certainly be welcome. I haven't had any major failures, but lots of little nagging things. I have to restart the finder every now and then to get its head straight. Time Machine decided to try using my boot drive as the backup disk for a while-- scary but nothing bad came of it. They need to document then damned firewall so I know what the hell it's doing. Dashboard gets flaky. Spotlight has spontaneously restarted itself a few times. PubSubAgent needs to be taken out back and shot. Sometimes I see shared machines, sometimes I don't.

On top of that there are a lot of ease of use things that could be dealt with better.

I'm using it full time now, but 10.5.0 is pretty much a well polished Beta. I'm looking forward to the next few updates.

Grimace
Nov 5, 2007, 08:19 PM
$100 Apple Store credit for early adopters!! :D

iDAG
Nov 5, 2007, 08:19 PM
I can't wait for 10.4.11, one last update for my PowerBook G3 before it gets to retire for a really long time. :(

Chris F
Nov 5, 2007, 08:19 PM
What airport issues are people having? I have an Airport Extreme Base Station and haven't had any problems.

I HAVE had my bluetooth mouse and keyboard suddenly lose connection a few times since my Leopard install, but this may just be a coincidence.

Leopard will kernel panic on me if I power cycle my AEBS while its connected. It happens 100% of the time which means if there is any sort of power interruption the MBP goes boom since I do not have a UPS. Not a gigantic issue but it sure is annoying when it happens.

spookje
Nov 5, 2007, 08:22 PM
Yeah, they should fix the screenshot functionality so I can make screenshots o the bugs in the Spaces screen. Beside of that of course the network printing (can only print once per boot cycle <g> after each print i have to restart :r, airport, exposé, the general sluggish experience have to be fixed too....

Heb1228
Nov 5, 2007, 08:24 PM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:...what was :apple: thinking???? :eek:
Couldn't disagree more. I had problems bigger problems with Tiger through .2 and .3 updates than I have with the .0 release of Leopard. Anyone remember .Mac syncing crashing your machine repeatedly?

And Panther had the completely inexcusable Oxford 911 chipset bug where many people lost entire hard drives worth of data...

Leopard hasn't been perfect but the bugs seem pretty small comparatively speaking.

anthonyb
Nov 5, 2007, 08:25 PM
hopefully they fix this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=374336)

SolrFlare
Nov 5, 2007, 08:27 PM
What airport issues are people having? I have an Airport Extreme Base Station and haven't had any problems.

I HAVE had my bluetooth mouse and keyboard suddenly lose connection a few times since my Leopard install, but this may just be a coincidence.

My airport on my Macbook will last for about 3 minutes tops of use(during which it is actually very fast) and then it will time out. At which point the only way to fix this is to turn airport completely off, then back on again, at which point it lasts for 3 minutes.

It's better than during the Leopard beta, however. During beta it would actually lock my router up. As it stands now it only locks up airport on my macbook's end. And, it is definitely an issue with the mac itself with leopard on it as it works fine with Tiger with the same router(well fine with Tiger without Safari 3 beta installed, which is where I think the problem may be originating).

Chris F
Nov 5, 2007, 08:27 PM
This (http://tomkarpik.com/articles/massive-data-loss-bug-in-leopard/) doesn't look good.

Yeah thats a pretty annoying bug but its easy to explain. Copy is implemented in two steps: move and delete. The bug simply looks like the delete operation goes through even if the copy does not entirely succeed. It should be an easy fix. Its also quite trivial to avoid the issue until a fix is provided. (dont use move to networked drives! copy, then delete!)

xUKHCx
Nov 5, 2007, 08:29 PM
When the update comes there will lots of :D and lots of :mad:.

I hope I fall into the :D group

Andrmgic
Nov 5, 2007, 08:31 PM
You and I are in the same boat my friend. :(

Surprised how long it take the postal service to deliver anything these days.

I ordered mine on the 25th.. and I just received it today.

Rocketman
Nov 5, 2007, 08:35 PM
The new MacBook I got will be logged into when 10.5.1 update is available. I will adopt 10.4.11 on most of my other Macs as soon as released.

I am a bit disappointed Apple has not offered a surprise 9.2.x update to add compatibility with new services and address known bugs. It would be somewhat trivial for them.

For those complaining about Leopard bugs, it is a fairly radical update to 10.X and 10.0 was a far bigger POS. I didn't even bother till 10.3 myself and all the suffering of other early adopters was amusing to watch :)

That in no way stops me from supporting the cause and spending on the latest and greatest as Apple needs and wants us to do. I can't wait till 10.5.3!

Rocketman

kaiwai
Nov 5, 2007, 09:13 PM
Why is it that when i want to rename a file it doesn't select the file extension??? This is almost as frustrating as when finder is in cover flow view and holding down the arrow key to move to a certain character while renaming a file and having cover flow scroll to a different file in the direction that is pressed. WHERE ARE MY OPTIONS TO TURN THIS KIND OF STUFF ON/OFF?

...but all in all i am a very happy customer.

Its pretty damn simple; the extension is not chosen because they assume you want to change the name not the file type that is being declared to the finder.

Geeze, read a damn book and purchase a clue.

kaiwai
Nov 5, 2007, 09:18 PM
This (http://tomkarpik.com/articles/massive-data-loss-bug-in-leopard/) doesn't look good.

Firstly, the idiot MOVED instead of COPY a file - first stupid mistake, second, read the following:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=351141&cid=21248993

There are a tonne of variables which are left open to question; btw, I have a hard disk hooked up to my airport shared via smb, and no problems.

adamfishercox
Nov 5, 2007, 09:27 PM
So your saying I shouldn't use drag and drop because the OS deletes the file even if the copy doesn't work???

Hmmmm.

kaiwai
Nov 5, 2007, 09:28 PM
hopefully they fix this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=374336)

Maybe thats an issue with your machine because right now I see it in my side bar

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/kaiwai/Picture1.jpg

Curtis72
Nov 5, 2007, 09:28 PM
No issues except for the my angst with Apple over them changing the Firewall interface. Prior to Leopard, it was easy! :mad:

dr_lha
Nov 5, 2007, 09:30 PM
Time Machine could use a few more user options, such as choosing the frequency of backups, having a backup now button, etc. Again, it's not a bug but a feature nice to have.
Control/Right/Hold-click on the Time Machine Dock icon. A contextual menu will pop up with the option "Backup Now". Or are you just complaining about the lack of an obvious button?

dr_lha
Nov 5, 2007, 09:30 PM
No issues except for the my angst with Apple over them changing the Firewall interface. Prior to Leopard, it was easy! :mad:
What is hard about the new version? If anything its simpler IMHO.

kaiwai
Nov 5, 2007, 09:31 PM
So your saying I shouldn't use drag and drop because the OS deletes the file even if the copy doesn't work???

Hmmmm.

No, the idiot MOVED the file, MOVE is a distructive copy!

Copy the file, once confirmed to have been copied successfully, THEN delete the original - is it *really* that hard to comprehend?

kaiwai
Nov 5, 2007, 09:33 PM
No issues except for the my angst with Apple over them changing the Firewall interface. Prior to Leopard, it was easy! :mad:

Apparently they've replaced the opensource one with their own proprietary one - buggered if I know why they did that. Spending resources in an area which never needed fiddling with.

kaiwai
Nov 5, 2007, 09:35 PM
Couldn't disagree more. I had problems bigger problems with Tiger through .2 and .3 updates than I have with the .0 release of Leopard. Anyone remember .Mac syncing crashing your machine repeatedly?

And Panther had the completely inexcusable Oxford 911 chipset bug where many people lost entire hard drives worth of data...

Leopard hasn't been perfect but the bugs seem pretty small comparatively speaking.

In defence of the oxford bug, it was avoidable by applying a firmware upgrade.

adamfishercox
Nov 5, 2007, 09:35 PM
No, the idiot MOVED the file, MOVE is a distructive copy!

Copy the file, once confirmed to have been copied successfully, THEN delete the original - is it *really* that hard to comprehend?

Moving a file from one pace to another shouldn't destroy the original until the copy has been successfully made. If I pick up my footstool to move it out the door, and suddenly the door closes, the footstool doesn't just disappear.

I agree that a copy is the more careful way to do it, but if they are going to offer a move function, it should work.

brsboarder
Nov 5, 2007, 09:35 PM
About time. I was almost ready to revert back to tiger. Between random errors, problems switching between programs, etc, I need leopard to be smooth like tiger was.

nostaws
Nov 5, 2007, 09:35 PM
I have been running 10.5 on my macbook pro for about a week. I haven't had any problems with anything (knock on wood). I "upgraded"/didn't do a from scratch install, and I haven't had any of the problems discussed here. No problems with mail, airport extreme, networking, etc. (although I haven't used time machine yet)

My only frustration is with little snitch saying all my web surfing is an action from the kernel (can't remember the exact phrasing), but it probably just needs to be updated.

as for stacks, meh... it is fine, but as another poster mentioned, I wish apple would allow the user to customize a little more, and keep a few features from previous OSes.

Originally Posted by Curtis72 View Post
No issues except for the my angst with Apple over them changing the Firewall interface. Prior to Leopard, it was easy!
Apparently they've replaced the opensource one with their own proprietary one - buggered if I know why they did that. Spending resources in an area which never needed fiddling with.

Oh, and yes, I do miss the old firewall interface

10.5 is much speedier overall on my macbook pro

cohibadad
Nov 5, 2007, 09:39 PM
I hope they fix Parental Controls, but they're so completely messed up I think it will take them a looooooong time to make them work at all let alone work they way they should.

Decrepit
Nov 5, 2007, 09:40 PM
The *only* problem that I have experienced since my move to 10.5 from 10.4 is graphics related.

There are numerous threads about it on Apple's support forums. The Mini, at 1920x1200, has graphics distortion in Time Machine, when restoring an item from the dock, and even when viewing large pictures sometimes.

If they make an option to turn off the background in Time Machine so I don't get the silly starfield in motion, my complaints cease.

Now, if they could fix the whole graphics thing, I'd be really happy.

I don't expect the nitpicky stuff to get looked at for several versions (if at all).

I'll be interested to see the feature list on the 10.5.1 release.

Cooknn
Nov 5, 2007, 09:47 PM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:Well, I've only been around as long as Panther, but I totally agree with you. Apple has definitely lost their magic touch, IMHO. I always used to take pride in the fact that they never released code from beta until it was ready. Not so with Leopard.

wtfk
Nov 5, 2007, 09:54 PM
Some call them "early adopters..."

I call them "beta testers." :)

joegomolski
Nov 5, 2007, 09:55 PM
I've been having this as well, but I found the following fix mentioned on a website somewhere: Grab the topmost On My Mac section header, and drag it down to the bottom of the source list, just below the last item. All the other On My Mac sections should disappear, leaving you with just one.

Neil.
a.k.a. Arnel


Arnel,


That worked, thanks so much for your tip. Now I need to do some sorting out with the mail accounts.

Eidorian
Nov 5, 2007, 10:03 PM
Firstly, the idiot MOVED instead of COPY a file - first stupid mistake, second, read the following:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=351141&cid=21248993

There are a tonne of variables which are left open to question; btw, I have a hard disk hooked up to my airport shared via smb, and no problems.

Yeah thats a pretty annoying bug but its easy to explain. Copy is implemented in two steps: move and delete. The bug simply looks like the delete operation goes through even if the copy does not entirely succeed. It should be an easy fix. Its also quite trivial to avoid the issue until a fix is provided. (dont use move to networked drives! copy, then delete!)I always copy. :p

Padriac
Nov 5, 2007, 10:07 PM
Still haven't heard about any "real", consistent and reproducible problems with Front Row (even on Apple Support Forums). Most everything is just complaints about how things have changed. Things have changed to be almost exactly like AppleTV, the interface of which (designed for TVs, mind you) nobody seemed to have a problem with before.

The few that are possibly legitimate are subjective at best (font size, iTunes and Front Row now separate): some may see them as an improvement.

Sometimes complaints are real complaints, sometimes they're just unnecessary whining.

holybatfart
Nov 5, 2007, 10:12 PM
I just started having the issue where my MBP's keyboard would intermittently stop working and now my trackpad doesn't work.:mad::mad::confused: A plugged in mouse works tho....

Squozen
Nov 5, 2007, 10:18 PM
Great! :)

… it's badly needed! (things like repairing permissions not working is serious!)

Huh? Repairing permissions works fine. Not that repairing permissions has been necessary since 10.2.

kcmac
Nov 5, 2007, 10:25 PM
Guess I've been lucky. So far, Leopard is working faster and better for me than Tiger did. It's like I have a whole new computer. The only bump I have is that Daylite doesn't sync but they say they are working on it.

Updates are good and as an early adopter (which is referred to around here like some kind of cancer) I will update immediately! :eek::D

goodcow
Nov 5, 2007, 10:35 PM
No, the idiot MOVED the file, MOVE is a distructive copy!

Copy the file, once confirmed to have been copied successfully, THEN delete the original - is it *really* that hard to comprehend?

So because he MOVED the file instead of copying it, he's an idiot? I use move all the time. Move is a simple concept, the only idiots and the engineers at Apple who apparently can't program this stuff properly. And your "OH GOD $TEVE LET ME TOUCH YOU, APPLE CAN DO NOTHING WRONG" attitude is pathetic.

MOVE should work. Period. It's a simple damn feature.

Tampa Tom
Nov 5, 2007, 10:54 PM
This have been nothing but aggravation and I bought a new Airport to back up wirelessly. I have been damaged and I want MILLIONS!!!:D

greenpflyer
Nov 5, 2007, 11:07 PM
They better fix the firewall. What I'm hearing about the poor firewall is making me uneasy. I had been anxiously waiting to buy my first mac computer. I wanted to switch from windows to mac. Now this "mess" in the firewall doesn't sound safe. Apple wont be getting my money If I cant safe because Im starting to lean my balance to vista with the rumored xps m1530, or the m1330. Hurry up apple, I don't have much time as a college student.

Thi
Nov 5, 2007, 11:11 PM
I just received my copy from ADC today and just upgraded. It's been getting faster and faster due to spotlight and now Time Machine? The difference in speed was night and day. I'll have to hold judgment until TM finishes. No apparent problems yet, I did have to manually insert the Quick Look icon onto my menu bar though, after a few uses this feature is currently my favorite. I'm soo glad I didn't do a clean install though. I never even considered using TM to do a clean install at a later date.

Mountjoy
Nov 5, 2007, 11:18 PM
I hope they fix iCal. It's crashed at least twice every day since I installed Leopard (Archive and Install).

synergykyd
Nov 5, 2007, 11:21 PM
The new MacBook I got will be logged into when 10.5.1 update is available. I will adopt 10.4.11 on most of my other Macs as soon as released.

I am a bit disappointed Apple has not offered a surprise 9.2.x update to add compatibility with new services and address known bugs. It would be somewhat trivial for them.
Rocketman

OS9 (Classic) is no longer supported and hasn't been for a long time (12/2001), so there will never be more updates for it. It doesn't run on any of the Intel-based machines, so why would Apple waste any time with it? Time to move on...

bluefiberoptics
Nov 5, 2007, 11:32 PM
They better fix the firewall. What I'm hearing about the poor firewall is making me uneasy. I had been anxiously waiting to buy my first mac computer. I wanted to switch from windows to mac. Now this "mess" in the firewall doesn't sound safe. Apple wont be getting my money If I cant safe because Im starting to lean my balance to vista with the rumored xps m1530, or the m1330. Hurry up apple, I don't have much time as a college student.

Even without a software firewall, are you behind a router? Because that's a layer of protection right there. I'd feel more safe with a Mac OS X computer running no firewall than a Windows machine running no firewall.

But yes, I certainly hope Apple fixes the problem.

chambers7
Nov 5, 2007, 11:33 PM
About time... I have a big problem with not being able to listen to any sound on my macbook speakers, only over external speakers or headphones. The problem and screen shots are listed here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=376394&highlight=sound

I really need this fixed. Also, i'm disappointed that VEOH doesn't work on leopard.

NicP
Nov 5, 2007, 11:45 PM
Multiple:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1164&start=0

Most of these shortcomings i find minor. I am prepared to live with them given the possibility that we will soon have 3rd party plugins :)

SiliconAddict
Nov 6, 2007, 12:05 AM
told ya. Within 2 months there would be an update.

The biggest problem I've found is with WIFI when you enable prompt for password upon wake. The thing forgets the passphrase in the keychain. But it ONLY happens when I have PuW set.

Yuppi
Nov 6, 2007, 12:18 AM
Oh boy, they better fix the firewall stuff. The nastiest of all firewall function is to sign applications that do not have a signature yet. This damages the Skype app so that it does not longer work *grr*.
And I hope they fixed the performance of the CIFS back to Tiger niveau. I want to watch my series from my NAS again :(
Not to mention the iMac freezings which made me return back to Tiger :(

HLdan
Nov 6, 2007, 12:23 AM
They better fix the firewall. What I'm hearing about the poor firewall is making me uneasy. I had been anxiously waiting to buy my first mac computer. I wanted to switch from windows to mac. Now this "mess" in the firewall doesn't sound safe. Apple wont be getting my money If I cant safe because Im starting to lean my balance to vista with the rumored xps m1530, or the m1330. Hurry up apple, I don't have much time as a college student.

OH yeah continue to be safe and buy smart choosing Vista over the Macintosh.:rolleyes:

Porkka666
Nov 6, 2007, 12:25 AM
Oh My God! I'm really excited! Hopefully comes before I get to home and back using my lovely Mac! :D:D

Porco
Nov 6, 2007, 12:29 AM
Tiger(and earlier)-style hierarchical / sub-folder/ nested folder access in Stacks is the biggie that needs addressing for me. Otherwise Stacks is just a backward step with a prettier face.

Galaxius
Nov 6, 2007, 12:40 AM
Hmm I must be lucky not to encounter some of these problems. Then again I haven't used Leopard over intensely, but regardless I haven't had any issues.

balahir
Nov 6, 2007, 12:41 AM
What airport issues are people having? I have an Airport Extreme Base Station and haven't had any problems.

I HAVE had my bluetooth mouse and keyboard suddenly lose connection a few times since my Leopard install, but this may just be a coincidence.

Me too. I have to press "connect" everytime I start my iMac with Leopard since it looses the established connection when it has been stut down. Sometimes works if I only do a restart, though...

offwidafairies
Nov 6, 2007, 12:53 AM
STILL WAITING FOR LEOPARD 10.5 IN THE POST :mad:

Balin64
Nov 6, 2007, 01:04 AM
So far so good on both. I have not loaded CS 3, Lightroom, my working apps, yet: but I have no complaints here. I did a clean install, which is I always do wit a new OS. I hope the problems others are having are soon figured out, though. I did have a minor issue with syncing from .mac, but after I reset the sync all went well.

iGrouch
Nov 6, 2007, 01:18 AM
Umm and 10.4.11 is where in all of this? Srsly when are we getting it since it was already been released.

I am screwed if I upgrade and screwed if I dont.

Indeed. It maybe possible that 10.4.11 will address a slow connection to a Laserjet 4L using Gimp on a Power Mac I have still running Tiger

SiliconAddict
Nov 6, 2007, 01:23 AM
Huh? Repairing permissions works fine. Not that repairing permissions has been necessary since 10.2.

Bullcrap. Someone has been chugging the the Apple koolaid hardcore.

iGrouch
Nov 6, 2007, 01:25 AM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:

bugs galore, stacks :mad:, graphics lines everywere, a total slacked off piece of you know what

except for my daughters mac i am back in 10.4. thats never happened for me but never has a mac os been this horrible :confused:

i am scared that :apple: in 10.5.1 wont fix stacks and put the menu back in it so it works in a usable way. it is a joke now and sucks suck sucks. Im all good with change but only change for the better. stacks is not better and is a nightmare

what was :apple: thinking???? :eek:


I feel you pain. But as I keep telling people please, please send feedback to Apple so that they know that people are disappointed about lost features. (new Dock behavior with no folder menus, Stacks could be better with navigability, loss of the the search view in Finder with files/folder organised into type categories.....etc.) Try and keep it polite.

What I do is write all the stuff down even with all the ****** and blinding leave it a few days and then send a polite edited version to Apple.

They may just listen if they realise that enough people are unhappy about things.

Quillz
Nov 6, 2007, 01:25 AM
Tiger(and earlier)-style hierarchical / sub-folder/ nested folder access in Stacks is the biggie that needs addressing for me. Otherwise Stacks is just a backward step with a prettier face.
Yup, I totally agree. I just don't understand why this functionality existed in previous developer builds (and worked fine, for that matter) only to be removed in the retail build. Also in the earlier builds, you can drag random applications and files to the Dock to make a custom Stack. You also can't do this in the retail build.

panoramical
Nov 6, 2007, 01:38 AM
I hope Apple realises a lot of people are having issues shutting down their macbooks...(it hangs on the black screen even after doing standard PRAM resets etc.)

pashazade
Nov 6, 2007, 01:41 AM
Why is it that when i want to rename a file it doesn't select the file extension??? WHERE ARE MY OPTIONS TO TURN THIS KIND OF STUFF ON/OFF?

...but all in all i am a very happy customer.

That's funny, this is one of my favourite 'mini-features' of the new finder. It's an absolute timesaver. When I rename I rarely want to change the file extension so this saves me lots of time (when added) up.

I agree though, it should be a preference (even if hidden).

pashazade

Firebar
Nov 6, 2007, 01:44 AM
Hopefully this is also an update ready for new Mac Pro's ;)

Stridder44
Nov 6, 2007, 01:45 AM
Firstly, the idiot MOVED instead of COPY a file - first stupid mistake, second, read the following:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=351141&cid=21248993

There are a tonne of variables which are left open to question; btw, I have a hard disk hooked up to my airport shared via smb, and no problems.


Yeah what was he thinking trying to MOVE files instead of copy them. That idiot should have known better. It doesn't matter what he did, data lose via a transfer is a big issue.

In any case, looking forward to bug fixes. Hope they fix more than break.


I am a bit disappointed Apple has not offered a surprise 9.2.x update to add compatibility with new services and address known bugs. It would be somewhat trivial for them.


OS 9 support? Seriously?? I think the year you want to look at is 2001, because that's around the time Apple said OS 9 is dead to them.

me_94501
Nov 6, 2007, 01:54 AM
So far I've only had minor glitches, just as was the case when I upgraded to Tiger. Here's a fun recurring bug, though:

Padriac
Nov 6, 2007, 02:09 AM
Tiger(and earlier)-style hierarchical / sub-folder/ nested folder access in Stacks is the biggie that needs addressing for me. Otherwise Stacks is just a backward step with a prettier face.

With the old folders, you had to right-click or click-and-hold to get to the contents. With Stacks it's a single click for instant access. So it's not entirely a step backwards.

Stacks could use some more refinement and options (like a "menu" view) but overall I think it's a better "system" than the old system. I definitely find it superior if you are *not* needing hierarchical access once in the folder/stack. But it's way worse if you do. Should be a simple thing for Apple to add a hierarchical list view for those that need it.

Jim Campbell
Nov 6, 2007, 02:21 AM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:

Well, unless Leopard crashes and forces a hard restart literally every five to ten minutes, then it's nowhere near as bad as 7.5.3

I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate issues with Leopard, but anyone who wants to make the "Worst OS Revision EVAH!" claim really needs to have worked in a design studio (or any kind of professional environment) trying to use 7.5.3 ...

IIRC, you couldn't even go back from 7.5.3 if you had certain types of NT boxes on your network that you needed to connect to (I'm pretty sure that we only upgradeded to 7.5.3 because it had a TCP/IP revision that was necessary for shared networking with an NT server).

I actually saw grown men and women literally weeping with frustration as they tried to hit deadlines using that disgraceful piece of cr*p. I memorably had to physically restrain our Design Manager from hurling his PM 7200 across the room when he discovered that although he'd saved a Quark document relatively recently before a crash, the crash had corrupted the document itself.

And that, Gil Amelio, is one of the reasons I'll never forget your time at Apple!

Cheers

Jim

madmax_2069
Nov 6, 2007, 02:22 AM
i know there is video card driver issues, as some report

maybe a issue with openGL

i cant repair permissions at all

the dock is a bit slow at times ( when trying to place a App in the dock it sometimes takes a wile before it responds so i can drop in on the dock)

Front row seems to run ok , but why cant you make your own key shortcut to open it (command+ESC tend to get in the way) why cant you add a folder so you can add videos and music from a folder you choose on top of the default one.

prolly allot more issues then i list, but what do you expect from a first release of anything, but really it wasn't that bad for a first release of Leopard. i have not had a single crash in anything so far (fingers crossed)

i only hope they improve on Leopard with 10.5.1 and not make it worse

Squozen
Nov 6, 2007, 02:27 AM
Bullcrap. Someone has been chugging the the Apple koolaid hardcore.

Fine, continue wasting time waving the rubber chicken. I've got 4 Macs, each of which have been running fine without worrying about permissions, but then again, I understand what permissions are. I'm guessing you're one of those people that repair permissions before a software update?

http://www.unsanity.org/archives/000410.php

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/secrets/repairpermissions/index.php?pf=1

willybNL
Nov 6, 2007, 02:32 AM
hopes the airport issues i'm having are fixed with this update.

Hoping they won't wait for .1 with that... my macbook is really trash without airport. (connect, disconnect... can't work with it like this)

ksgant
Nov 6, 2007, 02:34 AM
Remember, to all you people that did a clean install...because, ya know, it just gets rid of all those icky toxins in your system, clean install flushes all those out.

So when a new update comes along, do another clean install to flush away the toxins that you've built up in the past few weeks. :rolleyes:

aygie
Nov 6, 2007, 02:45 AM
What's wrong with it? It looks nice from my brief dabble.

can't watch internet trailers if you have a Mac Pro!

dukebound85
Nov 6, 2007, 02:54 AM
Fine, continue wasting time waving the rubber chicken. I've got 4 Macs, each of which have been running fine without worrying about permissions, but then again, I understand what permissions are. I'm guessing you're one of those people that repair permissions before a software update?

http://www.unsanity.org/archives/000410.php

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/secrets/repairpermissions/index.php?pf=1


besides the point, repairing permissions does not work currently whether useful or not

gnasher729
Nov 6, 2007, 03:18 AM
besides the point, repairing permissions does not work currently whether useful or not

So exactly how does this affect you except for you saying "repairing permissions doesn't work"?

madmax_2069
Nov 6, 2007, 03:23 AM
Fine, continue wasting time waving the rubber chicken. I've got 4 Macs, each of which have been running fine without worrying about permissions, but then again, I understand what permissions are. I'm guessing you're one of those people that repair permissions before a software update?

http://www.unsanity.org/archives/000410.php

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/secrets/repairpermissions/index.php?pf=1


there is where you are wrong, i had a issue in tiger with it not shutting down properly (it would just sit there at a blue screen) i restarted and repaired permissions and it shuts down just fine. it happened again and i force restarted and tried to shut down tiger again (figuring it was just a weird issue) and it stayed at the blue screen, i forced a restart and repaired permissions and it shut down properly.

also when you mod a kext file manually and dont repair permissions you are going to have issues with that kext file (and it wont load) and a error message saying that is wasnt properly installed, and untill you repair permissions you will keep getting that error message. once you do that error message will go away (and the kext file will load).

and i have seen performance issues with OS X with messed up permissions and repairing them fixed the issues.

so don't tell me that repairing permissions is useless. some people dont follow what a web site tells you, and go by experience alone.

So exactly how does this affect you except for you saying "repairing permissions doesn't work"?

what he is meaning by what he said is, Repairing permissions should work in disk utility no matter if repairing them is useful or not. and i cant agree more with what he posted cause repairing disk Permissions does not work in Disk utility, when you try it just sits there doing nothing ( and thats is not suppose to happen) its suppose to find and repair wrong permissions

crass
Nov 6, 2007, 03:26 AM
I am fairly new to the Mac, so I don't have in-depth experience of the differences between Tiger and Leopard. My major gripe is with Front Row: while they significantly fixed the time it needed to read your music and video library, everything else (for my needs at least) seems to be worse. Gone is the nice effect that initiates FR. The UI imho is worse. And most importantly, there is no resume function for videos !
I hope they fix that in the first update.

wingmanmac
Nov 6, 2007, 04:01 AM
i did a clean install on powerbook 1,25. it took less than 40 minutes, i didnt install any drivers and only english and norwegian language. Apart from one RAM keep freezing the installer it went smooth. (This also happend with installing tiger). Fix: remove the RAM then install, then insert the RAM back in.

System overall is faster, and after the keychain and login update, internet is working perfect.

This is not working perfect yet:

Skype, needs to reinstall everytime i want to use it (although its a workaround on the net now). Google it.

Yahoo messenger, is freezing for seconds or unexpectedly quits often.

Photoshop 7 is no more working on my machine, i wont update this.

Itunes use looong time to open and iphoto seem slower.
Number seems faster. Photobooth are so slow it cant be used, (with a firewire cam).

I think its a bug in the adjust color in preview. Its not changing much, its lagging, and when i save the color adjustments are doubled.

I liked the firewall in tiger better. Now i dont know.. is it on?is it off?

Im testing it on my studiomac too, a 867 quicksilver, with 1,5 RAM; the system works very nice, but Cubase 2.2, seems to be slower, Im not sure i will use leopard for this.

For the sport i tried to install it on a double 500 mgz. Its working ok, its slow but usable, but only for web stuff and easy tasks. I can see why apple didnt recomend it coz all the interface bling are much slower than tiger. And iworks trial didnt work.

Overall i really like all the new stuff, its well worth the money. The system is generally faster in everything and the new stuff is great. The comming updates will make it even better!

princigalli
Nov 6, 2007, 04:07 AM
A friend of mine was so upset about the Leopard bugs that he decided to leave the Mac OS X platform today and got himself a Vista CD. I'm sorry about this, I like Leopard and it works fine for me. But I can understand him.

After upgrading to Leopard Flash stopped working on Safari, and if he removed some quicktime components Flash would work again but then he would have no quicktime. My friend spent hours on forums trying to figure it out.

He was disappointed. He told me that Apple disappointed him. Bugs are OK, but something like this is beyond a reasonable bug. It's a serious mistake that halted his work for a few days.

He never wanted to use Microsoft, but yesterday evening he told me one good thing over vista: "It just works". What Apple used to be.

He's possibly right. I never heard of Microsoft explorer not being able to open Flash or video files with the appropriate player. The only software causing problems on PCs these days are Quicktime and Safari.

A very sad state of things that I hope Apple will fix soon. They have to stop releasing Alpha software to the public.

madmax_2069
Nov 6, 2007, 04:15 AM
A friend of mine was so upset about the Leopard bugs that he decided to leave the Mac OS X platform today and got himself a Vista CD. I'm sorry about this, I like Leopard and it works fine for me. But I can understand him.

After upgrading to Leopard Flash stopped working on Safari, and if he removed some quicktime components Flash would work again but then he would have no quicktime. My friend spent hours on forums trying to figure it out.

He was disappointed. He told me that Apple disappointed him. Bugs are OK, but something like this is beyond a reasonable bug. It's a serious mistake that halted his work for a few days.

He never wanted to use Microsoft, but yesterday evening he told me one good thing over vista: "It just works". What Apple used to be.

He's possibly right. I never heard of Microsoft explorer not being able to open Flash or video files with the appropriate player. The only software causing problems on PCs these days are Quicktime and Safari.

A very sad state of things that I hope Apple will fix soon. They have to stop releasing Alpha software to the public.


bugs is a given on any first release period ( and everyone should realize this by now). he should have stayed with tiger if he relied on his Mac for work. it was down right stupid of your friend to jump into leopard on a work machine. he should have stayed in tiger cause there is less bugs when compared to Leopard. jumping into Leopard on a non work oriented machine i can understand . but not on a machine that is used for work.


he brought it on himself by jumping into leopard on a work machine and has only himself to blame, its not Apple fault.

Exodemia
Nov 6, 2007, 04:32 AM
I've had no major problems with Leopard except for these six things:

1. During normal use and from sleep clicking the AirPort icon has frozen my MacBook and the restart message has appeared.

2. Occasional crashes of applications.

3. Mail misbehaving and mailboxes seem to be acting up.

4. Safari still incompatible with elements in certain websites such as Windows Live, eBay, etc. so I use Firefox instead.

5. Time Machine options limited.

6. Java 6 would be nice?

messedkid
Nov 6, 2007, 04:58 AM
I've had no major problems with Leopard except for these six things:

1. During normal use and from sleep clicking the AirPort icon has frozen my MacBook and the restart message has appeared.

2. Occasional crashes of applications.

3. Mail misbehaving and mailboxes seem to be acting up.

4. Safari still incompatible with elements in certain websites such as Windows Live, eBay, etc. so I use Firefox instead.

5. Time Machine options limited.

6. Java 6 would be nice?

I have not had any problems aside from the Safari incombatibility with Windows Live ( can't check my emails :( ) so I use Flock.

And of course the sluggyness of when I did an upgrade install on the first day. But I did a fresh install and that fixed it.

Apart from Safari being stupid with Hotmail, I have no beef with Leopard being buggy and such. I have not had any other problems mentioned on here.

writeous
Nov 6, 2007, 05:10 AM
I told myself I would stick with Tiger until the .1 update. But with all the issues people are listening, I'm starting to think that Apple wont cover most of them. So unless im wrong, (which I hope)I might wait for th e.2 update to install my UTD cd.

johnnyjibbs
Nov 6, 2007, 05:14 AM
The number one thing I hope they fix is the speed. Sure, I have an old 12" PB 1GHz, but with Tiger so snappy before, there is no reason why Leopard should be so sluggish (things like minimising genie effect, expose, dock magnification, etc that worked like silk before).

Second, improve the stacks nonsense so that they support a hold hierarichal menu sturcture and replace the look of the stack in the dock to the far more intuitive folder of old. Apple probably won't do the latter (even though it should) for stubbon reasons - it will be less easy to distinguish it's brand new big desktop feature stacks - and make it look too much like the dock folders of old (and therefore make people realise that it is a step back and not a new feature at all!)

Oh, but bug fixes first please. Photoshop Elements 2.0 will not run. Nor will iWeb '08.

Project
Nov 6, 2007, 05:33 AM
told ya. Within 2 months there would be an update.



Hardly Miss Cleo is it. Every single version of OSX has had an update within 2 months.

Maxime
Nov 6, 2007, 05:39 AM
well i'll worry myself about this if i ever get my utd copy of leopard! sent the 25th and still not here!:mad:


haha same here. Shipped on october 25th and nothing yet. :(

Hattig
Nov 6, 2007, 05:43 AM
No, the idiot MOVED the file, MOVE is a distructive copy!

Copy the file, once confirmed to have been copied successfully, THEN delete the original - is it *really* that hard to comprehend?

Wow, take some ritalin ... maybe ketamin would be better for you ... and actually grasp what the problem is - an offered file management function is seriously broken in certain circumstances.

Move is Copy then Delete - if the Copy fails, the Delete shouldn't occur. Your second sentence shows what the Move operation should be doing without needing manual verification.

xUKHCx
Nov 6, 2007, 05:44 AM
Hoping they won't wait for .1 with that... my macbook is really trash without airport. (connect, disconnect... can't work with it like this)

One thing that has really helped is deselecting the"Remember any network this computer has joined" under advanced and "Ask to join new networks" means the issue is only 1 in 5 rather 4 in 5.

Hardly Miss Cleo is it. Every single version of OSX has had an update within 2 months.


Indeed i'll go out on a limb and say that 10.5.2 will be out within 2 months of 10.5.1 being released.

b0ned0me
Nov 6, 2007, 05:52 AM
an offered file management function is seriously broken in certain circumstances.
Although it's worth stressing for anyone reading who has been lucky enough to escape the dreaded 'failed move' phenomenon - MOVING LARGE QUANTITIES OF DATA IS A GAMBLE on both MacOS and Windows, and probably on most other systems too. If you need to shift lots of data to another drive, relying on drag/drop or move will eventually screw you bigtime. It's yet another one of those inexcusably shoddy things that seems to be universally accepted in the IT world:mad:

headfuzz
Nov 6, 2007, 06:25 AM
As IEatApples pointed out, Disk Utility won't repair permissions.

Phew! I thought it was me going mad! :rolleyes:

Good thing I had Disk Warrior on hand to do the job then (although it did take bloody ages on Leopard) ;)

bijou
Nov 6, 2007, 06:29 AM
Well I DID revert back to Tiger, although am dual-booting w/Leopard to continue testing. Leopard is just too buggy right now to use dependably in a work environment. The HP printing issues, wireless and backup issues, regular crashing using iPhoto...this is ridiculous.:mad:

bijou
Nov 6, 2007, 06:30 AM
Phew! I thought it was me going mad! :rolleyes:

Good thing I had Disk Warrior on hand to do the job then (although it did take bloody ages on Leopard) ;)

Disk Warrior is NOT Leopard-ready!

Squozen
Nov 6, 2007, 06:31 AM
besides the point, repairing permissions does not work currently whether useful or not

Except that it does - at least it does when I test it on my machines. It takes a while to get started, but it does work.

headfuzz
Nov 6, 2007, 06:32 AM
bugs is a given on any first release period ( and everyone should realize this by now). he should have stayed with tiger if he relied on his Mac for work. it was down right stupid of your friend to jump into leopard on a work machine. he should have stayed in tiger cause there is less bugs when compared to Leopard. jumping into Leopard on a non work oriented machine i can understand . but not on a machine that is used for work.

Agreed - I have Leopard currently running in a dual boot setup having used migration assistant to copy all data from the Tiger volume so I can properly soak test Leopard to see if it is plausible as my primary OS. Have my music workstation crippled because some of my audio hardware hasn't had drivers written for it yet, or ebcause some bug in the new OS doesn't play nicely with Logic or Ableton? I think not.

Anybody with half an ounce of sense (and a critical production machine) sticks to the old adage: if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. ;)

headfuzz
Nov 6, 2007, 06:32 AM
Disk Warrior is NOT Leopard-ready!

Perhaps not, but it repaired the permissions which is what was required of it at the time. :)

CaptainHaddock
Nov 6, 2007, 06:56 AM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:

bugs galore, stacks :mad:, graphics lines everywere, a total slacked off piece of you know what

Sounds like hardware or driver issues, depending on the Mac.

On my Macbook Pro, I'm extremely pleased. When Tiger came out, there were tons of bugs and issues that didn't get resolved until about 10.4.3 (I filled two pages of bug reports at Apple.com), but I have practically no complaints about Leopard yet. I am very impressed with most new features (Stacks excepted), and everything is faster and more responsive.

Oh, there was one problem with some system fonts getting un-installed during the upgrade, but I managed to fix that easily enough.

chocolate632
Nov 6, 2007, 06:59 AM
i hope they fix iChat, video chat is not working

Dagless
Nov 6, 2007, 07:04 AM
Not remembering the connection upon waking and then the dreaded "connection timeout"

I'm having this problem too. But it's only on my iMac, the PowerBook (with it's weaker reception) works fine and dandy.

FrontRow can't see any other Mac on my network. Despite showing up on the Finder (unless it's not supposed to do this and Sources is just a pointless menu).

Indexing took a LONG time. I'm talking days. The HDD health is perfect, it's just that one partition was doing a Timemachine backup and the other was being indexed. It did not like that.

Custom folder icons aren't loading up in Finder in Coverflow.

Workgroup keeps resetting.

Think that's it for now...

twoodcc
Nov 6, 2007, 07:04 AM
i hope they fix iChat, video chat is not working

it's not working at all? i haven't tried it yet

Baron58
Nov 6, 2007, 07:10 AM
Why is it that when i want to rename a file it doesn't select the file extension???

That is correct behaviour. Glad they finally did that.

brsboarder
Nov 6, 2007, 07:11 AM
ok, so where is this update? its tuesday! new ipods, new iphone and update

djellison
Nov 6, 2007, 07:34 AM
Sounds like hardware or driver issues, depending on the Mac.

In the PC world - that would be an acceptable situation. Not with a Mac. We're all paying a very heavy premium on hardware ( 50% typically ) to get that level of integration of hardware and OS for the explicit purpose of avoiding such issues.

Leopard has issues - the networking is broken, Safari is still a nasty beta product. Until leopard, my MB had NEVER crashed. Now, it's done it several times in the past few days.

10.5.1 is needed VERY VERY quickly, before the increasingly good reputation momentum is lost entirely.

Doug

milo
Nov 6, 2007, 07:38 AM
Why is it that when i want to rename a file it doesn't select the file extension???

I like the new behaviour, I think it makes more sense for the vast majority of customers. If you want to change the extension, select it, or hit command A to select all. It's a huge timesaver for me, not having to manually select everything but the extension.

Umm and 10.4.11 is where in all of this? Srsly when are we getting it since it was already been released.

What has already been released?

i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:

That's funny, I've been using mac that long, and for me Leopard has been the most solid OS update apple has ever released. If it's really that bad on your system, maybe you just need to install it again?

Firstly, the idiot MOVED instead of COPY a file - first stupid mistake,

How is using "move" a stupid mistake? Move should move a file. It shouldn't delete the original if the move fails and lose data. If this is true, it's a serious problem and needs to be fixed ASAP. And seriously, you're calling someone an idiot for moving a file? Get your head out of your ass.

No, the idiot MOVED the file, MOVE is a distructive copy!

And it didn't work right for him. If move is destructive without doing the copy, it's not working right at all. Or are you saying that we shouldn't ever trust the OS to work properly? :rolleyes:

CrazyWingman
Nov 6, 2007, 07:40 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With Mac OS X Leopard a little over a week old, Apple has already begun making preparations for seeding the next revision of Mac OS X (10.5.1) to testers.



Don't be an idiot. 10.5.0 is already weeks old. Remember that whole discussion here about how Apple would need to have a GM ready for pressing in early October if they were going to actually ship CDs in late October? Well, that means a month has gone by since that version was frozen.

milo
Nov 6, 2007, 07:45 AM
Fine, continue wasting time waving the rubber chicken. I've got 4 Macs, each of which have been running fine without worrying about permissions, but then again, I understand what permissions are. I'm guessing you're one of those people that repair permissions before a software update?

http://www.unsanity.org/archives/000410.php

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/secrets/repairpermissions/index.php?pf=1

Despite what they say, I had a case recently where something was consistently not working, and repairing permissions was the thing that ended up fixing it. I've never worried about permissions much before, but in this case it definitely was a fix. It probably doesn't make a difference very often, but in an extreme case (this machine hadn't had permissions repaired and it had to fix probably hundreds of them) it turns out to matter.

Luap
Nov 6, 2007, 08:11 AM
Predictable.. let me guess.. 2 weeks after we get 10.5.1 the headline here will be "Apple preparing 10.5.2 for release" :rolleyes:

News that states the obvious really irks me.

gmanrique
Nov 6, 2007, 08:18 AM
No serious issues really, but for some reason little problems seem to come and go with Bluetooth, external disks, system preferences, airport, etc.

Any updates are appreciated, although I have to say (*knocks on the wood*) that I don't have any major problems after doing a regular upgrade! And minor troubles just come and go every now and then, but nothing that would make me wanna throw the computer out of the window =).

megfilmworks
Nov 6, 2007, 08:33 AM
Very few issues with my upgrade. Airdisk for Time Machine is a necessity.
One little bug I see occasionally is the Spotlight drop down being partially hidden behind the pull down menu. It comes and goes.

astewart
Nov 6, 2007, 08:35 AM
Well I DID revert back to Tiger, although am dual-booting w/Leopard to continue testing. Leopard is just too buggy right now to use dependably in a work environment. The HP printing issues, wireless and backup issues, regular crashing using iPhoto...this is ridiculous.:mad:

Odd, I have not had any problems printing from my HP Color LasorJet 2600n. Nor have I had any problems with the my wireless connection either... I noticed a few graphical glitches but nothing to big.

** One thing I would hope that is fixed in 10.5.1 is the Bootcamp issue when installing Windows...Stupid Disk and hal.dll errors...

ladbroke
Nov 6, 2007, 08:37 AM
I'll put in my weirdest bug. My PB got stuck in Expose, but each program and window remained active, so I could go forward and back in Safari or put in a new URL, or even do a Spotlight search in Finder.

As far as bugs go, I kinda liked that one.

SolrFlare
Nov 6, 2007, 08:41 AM
Yeah I do want to stress that while I'm having serious airport issues on my macbook with Leopard, everything else is actually fine and dandy outside of the disk utility taking really really long to work(but it does work!).

I know other people have more issues with Leopard(and others less), most of the serious bugs seem to be hardware related with the non-hardware related ones being annoying quirks and/or security issues.

It's still way less buggy than Vista was on release though lol. But as mac users we tend to expect more out of apple, thus, compared to other apple releases, this is one of the worst ones(although there are others way worse than this by far).

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 09:02 AM
Moving a file from one pace to another shouldn't destroy the original until the copy has been successfully made. If I pick up my footstool to move it out the door, and suddenly the door closes, the footstool doesn't just disappear.

I agree that a copy is the more careful way to do it, but if they are going to offer a move function, it should work.

The one thing I have learned from 20 years of computers, never trust them. computers are designed by humans, software written by humans - expect stupid bone head coding mistakes.

I have been running 10.5 on my macbook pro for about a week. I haven't had any problems with anything (knock on wood). I "upgraded"/didn't do a from scratch install, and I haven't had any of the problems discussed here. No problems with mail, airport extreme, networking, etc. (although I haven't used time machine yet)

My only frustration is with little snitch saying all my web surfing is an action from the kernel (can't remember the exact phrasing), but it probably just needs to be updated.

as for stacks, meh... it is fine, but as another poster mentioned, I wish apple would allow the user to customize a little more, and keep a few features from previous OSes.



Oh, and yes, I do miss the old firewall interface

10.5 is much speedier overall on my macbook pro

A strange thing, its a few seconds slower when booting up on my Macbook (Black, 2.16Ghz, 2gigs of memory), the disk utility when doing 'permissions repair is slow, hopefully 10.5.1 will improve 'teh snappy'

They better fix the firewall. What I'm hearing about the poor firewall is making me uneasy. I had been anxiously waiting to buy my first mac computer. I wanted to switch from windows to mac. Now this "mess" in the firewall doesn't sound safe. Apple wont be getting my money If I cant safe because Im starting to lean my balance to vista with the rumored xps m1530, or the m1330. Hurry up apple, I don't have much time as a college student.

Regarding the firewall; I think this says it best: "Don't believe the hype, don't, don't, don't believe the hype".

The firewall and the articles - all ********. Considering that the firewall was never enabled by default in the first place, I don't know what people are moaning about. For me, I sit behind a firewall, those services exposed to the internet sit in a sandbox. Its all fear mongering. If I believed every thing being said, I wouldn't be touching a computer or have it connected to the internet.

i know there is video card driver issues, as some report

maybe a issue with openGL

i cant repair permissions at all

the dock is a bit slow at times ( when trying to place a App in the dock it sometimes takes a wile before it responds so i can drop in on the dock)

Front row seems to run ok , but why cant you make your own key shortcut to open it (command+ESC tend to get in the way) why cant you add a folder so you can add videos and music from a folder you choose on top of the default one.

prolly allot more issues then i list, but what do you expect from a first release of anything, but really it wasn't that bad for a first release of Leopard. i have not had a single crash in anything so far (fingers crossed)

i only hope they improve on Leopard with 10.5.1 and not make it worse

What happens when you try to repair? my experience is that the whirly bar goes for quite some time, then it suddenly shows progress; give that a go, allow it to keep going, it'll eventually move forward.

jellomizer
Nov 6, 2007, 09:28 AM
i've used every mac system since os6 and cant remember a worse f--up than LEOPARD is. :mad:

bugs galore, stacks :mad:, graphics lines everywere, a total slacked off piece of you know what

except for my daughters mac i am back in 10.4. thats never happened for me but never has a mac os been this horrible :confused:

i am scared that :apple: in 10.5.1 wont fix stacks and put the menu back in it so it works in a usable way. it is a joke now and sucks suck sucks. Im all good with change but only change for the better. stacks is not better and is a nightmare

what was :apple: thinking???? :eek:

I don't know about that I remember every new version of OS X having a bunch of small annoying problems. Problems that they fixed in the old version appearing again. New features that work kinda hokie. By the time 10.x.5 is released things really get fairly stable and the problems are more minute. Yes I had some issues with leopord my install processes was not smooth But overall it is an improvement over Tiger there are only some small glitches, and a couple of big ones that are usually easilly fixed.

avkills
Nov 6, 2007, 09:29 AM
Seriously, is there actually anyone really connected to their ISP without using a router of some sort?

Relying on your computer to filter unwanted connections seems haphazard on any OS.

-mark

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 09:32 AM
A friend of mine was so upset about the Leopard bugs that he decided to leave the Mac OS X platform today and got himself a Vista CD. I'm sorry about this, I like Leopard and it works fine for me. But I can understand him.

Then obviously your friend is an idiot if he thinks that Windows Vista is any better; can't wait till he screams and whines. 10.5.1 is around the corner; everyone knows 'never expect perfection from a x.0 product' - that rule goes for all brands and all products.

After upgrading to Leopard Flash stopped working on Safari, and if he removed some quicktime components Flash would work again but then he would have no quicktime. My friend spent hours on forums trying to figure it out.

What on earth is he doing? I've looked at porn, checked out youtube and a variety of other sites - not a single problem; what on earth is he doing to ***** something up so completely? he sounds like a walking disaster.

He was disappointed. He told me that Apple disappointed him. Bugs are OK, but something like this is beyond a reasonable bug. It's a serious mistake that halted his work for a few days.

He never wanted to use Microsoft, but yesterday evening he told me one good thing over vista: "It just works". What Apple used to be.

He's possibly right. I never heard of Microsoft explorer not being able to open Flash or video files with the appropriate player. The only software causing problems on PCs these days are Quicktime and Safari.

A very sad state of things that I hope Apple will fix soon. They have to stop releasing Alpha software to the public.

So you're saying to me that we have this A-grade idiot who has moved from MacOS X to Windows Vista and claiming it to be 'just works'; sorry, he has some major issues then or majorly deluded, or simply a made up scenario to explain the issues you're having.

tribulation
Nov 6, 2007, 09:34 AM
Second, improve the stacks nonsense so that they support a hold hierarichal menu sturcture and replace the look of the stack in the dock to the far more intuitive folder of old. Apple probably won't do the latter (even though it should) for stubbon reasons

:apple: should have learned their lesson by now. i have downgraded all 3 of my macs to tiger for mostly this reason alone. just about every one @ work has done that too. so many of us HATE the stack crap its not even funny any more it is like a joke. seriously people theres no way :apple: could have done much usability testing with real people and gotten positive feedback about it from any one who uses macs lots. like people've said the betas worked better and more features were in with stacks then and that was not long before the release. by the time the public got their copies that wouldnt have given :apple: much time if any to test those secretive ideas on real people and had time to change it if they even care or are willing to suck it up and recognize the GIGANTIC BLUNDER with these stupid things called stacks that you cant right click on and go more than a folder deep to get what you need

no fix to stacks. no upgrade for me which means i cant buy new programs 4 mac leopard by companies that sell them which means hopefully that there will be some type of backlash to :apple: @ some point and maybe theyll change their mind and do something useful

tribulation
Nov 6, 2007, 09:46 AM
Sounds like hardware or driver issues, depending on the Mac.

its not a hardware problem. look @ :apple: support site and find all of the hundreds or thousands by now of graphic glitches bugs added. lots of problems on mac pros and imacs. they are so bad they make it unusable
with this many people having the same problem there is not a way that :apple: couldnt have caught the bugs before they released it. they are wway to major & common and 3 out of 4 mac friends have exact same problems

i think a huge problem was stupid :apple: making a deadline and having to meet it no matter what this time since they already delayed it. since Vista was delayed :apple: COULD NOT under any circumstances do the same after they talked so much bs about ms doing it. so they pushed this cr*p out the door totally unready and lacking even basic things that they showed off in demos
THERE IS NOT AN EXCUSE IN THE WORLD FOR THIS :apple:
this is NOT APPLES STYLE and it a joke and insult to us all
these arent just small bugs that a couple people might sometime get. these are HUGE bugs that make leopard 101% unusable. this is NOT A BETA PROGRAM. we bought version 1.0. that should work very good for a big company with 2 years worth of work that show very little progress in so many areas and even more disappointing is that they TOOK AWAY perfectly good things that couldve been untouched and made leopard SOOOOOOO much better. they took them away for no good reason & it sucks bad :mad:

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 09:50 AM
The number one thing I hope they fix is the speed. Sure, I have an old 12" PB 1GHz, but with Tiger so snappy before, there is no reason why Leopard should be so sluggish (things like minimising genie effect, expose, dock magnification, etc that worked like silk before).

Second, improve the stacks nonsense so that they support a hold hierarichal menu sturcture and replace the look of the stack in the dock to the far more intuitive folder of old. Apple probably won't do the latter (even though it should) for stubbon reasons - it will be less easy to distinguish it's brand new big desktop feature stacks - and make it look too much like the dock folders of old (and therefore make people realise that it is a step back and not a new feature at all!)

Oh, but bug fixes first please. Photoshop Elements 2.0 will not run. Nor will iWeb '08.

I'm not too sure about Photoshop Elements, but iWeb '08 works for me, I have all the latest updates installed too - 2.0.2

iJawn108
Nov 6, 2007, 10:23 AM
how about on the server side are people having issues like this?

BillyBobBongo
Nov 6, 2007, 10:28 AM
.....these are HUGE bugs that make leopard 101% unusable. <snip>

I can't think what I did right/wrong, but for me Leopard is 100% usable. I've not experienced a single crash on my MacBook and all the programs that I use are functional also. The only problem I encountered was with Disk Utility, but I'm sure that'll be one of the first things that gets fixed.

My Airport connection has died once since installing Leopard, and that was after doing an 'Upgrade' rather than a fresh install. I erased everything and put in a clean install and it's been perfect ever since. The only other issue I have is when connecting to my Airdisk (I have to log in each time) but that's more of an annoyance than a bug if you ask me!

milo
Nov 6, 2007, 10:40 AM
Then obviously your friend is an idiot if he thinks that Windows Vista is any better; can't wait till he screams and whines. 10.5.1 is around the corner; everyone knows 'never expect perfection from a x.0 product' - that rule goes for all brands and all products.

What on earth is he doing? I've looked at porn, checked out youtube and a variety of other sites - not a single problem; what on earth is he doing to ***** something up so completely? he sounds like a walking disaster.

So you're saying to me that we have this A-grade idiot who has moved from MacOS X to Windows Vista and claiming it to be 'just works'; sorry, he has some major issues then or majorly deluded, or simply a made up scenario to explain the issues you're having.

What is wrong with you? Are you completely incapable of making a point without calling other people idiots?

ChrisA
Nov 6, 2007, 10:52 AM
cool, probably the TM-airdisk thing will be sorted out, and maybe we'll get back the star wars hologram effect (even though we can already sorta get it...). Truth is I'm hoping that they'll sort out some of the interface sluggishnesses.

TM works on airdisk now. The problem is with airdisk. It is unreliable. I think Apple pulled the feature not because TM did not work but because it is not wise to use an unreliable disk for your backup device. They will need to fix the firmware inside the router. I hope the hardware engineers were smart enough to include a bunch of extra flash memory. Fixes to software almost always increase the size of the software. If the flash ram is nrealy full there will not be a fix.

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 11:01 AM
What is wrong with you? Are you completely incapable of making a point without calling other people idiots?

I call them idiots because they firstly think that an operating system change will fix all the problems, and secondly, they assume that their problems are solely the domain of the operating system. Windows Vista will not fix the problems. He'll install it and find a whole new set of problems. I ran Windows Vista, and I can tell you as a *NIX battle axe (and ex-Amiga zealot) its pain is the equivalent of being kneed in the groin by a man with steel cap boots.

Sorry mate, when things don't work for me on my computer, I look in the mirror and ask, "what did I do wrong which cocked things up" - I am the first port of call when it comes to something going wrong. Then once I've done everything to eliminate myself from the blame equation, I then look outside of that.

neolithicvirgo
Nov 6, 2007, 11:06 AM
I really hope they add coverflow to the OS File Selection / Save dialogs... you can look at files in every other way and they still have aqua elements that don't look very leopard-esque.

Also, how about letting the user control the transparency of the top menu bar (/me craves 100%)

-Andrew

madmax_2069
Nov 6, 2007, 11:12 AM
I am fairly new to the Mac, so I don't have in-depth experience of the differences between Tiger and Leopard. My major gripe is with Front Row: while they significantly fixed the time it needed to read your music and video library, everything else (for my needs at least) seems to be worse. Gone is the nice effect that initiates FR. The UI imho is worse. And most importantly, there is no resume function for videos !
I hope they fix that in the first update.

Yes there is a resume function for videos in front row in Leopard. i just tried it and it asked my to resume play it start from beginning. my major gripe with FR is you cant tell it what folders you want to add to the video or music or other. and other gripe is that some videos that will play in QT wont play in FR (even if you put them in the movies folder.

what is the sources tab there for ( just for looks) cause it don't do anything

happens when you try to repair? my experience is that the whirly bar goes for quite some time, then it suddenly shows progress; give that a go, allow it to keep going, it'll eventually move forward.

i have let it sit there for about 45 minutes and it does nothing, i gave up on it. it makes me so mad just watching it i want to punch the screen in anger. but i cant do that to my Mac cause it is not its fault, its Apples for rushing Leopard out the door

ChrisA
Nov 6, 2007, 11:19 AM
How is using "move" a stupid mistake? Move should move a file. It shouldn't delete the original if the move fails and lose data. If this is true, it's a serious problem and needs to be fixed ASAP.

The problem is that the "move" routine gets an "I got it" message from the guy who writes stuff to disk, to the mover then goes the deletes the files. The problem is the "I got it" message was given when the data was only in a cache and not really on the disk. So the disk goes awy after he ssys he has it but before he physically writes it.

In the case in question the disk was in a file server not running mac OS X. One way to make a file server appear faster is to have it give out the "I got it" signal when the data are only in cache. But then if it crashes right after that you get the problem we are seeing.

ckurowic
Nov 6, 2007, 11:26 AM
cool, probably the TM-airdisk thing will be sorted out, and maybe we'll get back the star wars hologram effect (even though we can already sorta get it...). Truth is I'm hoping that they'll sort out some of the interface sluggishnesses.

INDEED!!! I am really enjoying Leopard on my G5, however the interface sluggishness really ruins a lot of the experience. :cool:

TheChemist
Nov 6, 2007, 11:27 AM
What on earth is he doing? I've looked at porn, checked out youtube and a variety of other sites - not a single problem; what on earth is he doing to ***** something up so completely? he sounds like a walking disaster.

A lot of people have had issues with flash not working after Leopard - either from an upgrade or a clean install.

I performed an Archive and Install and flash did not work. There is a plethora of pages regarding this issue on Apple Discussion. Are all those people walking disasters?

The solution involves removing an invalid reference to flash from within a Quicktime.plugin.plist file. That's a far cry from walking disaster.

Alloye
Nov 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
After reading much of this thread, I'm starting to think I have the only working copy of Leopard on the planet. :confused:

In any case, I think Leopard trumps Tiger by a wide margin. I've experienced zero issues with it and have only the following quibbles to offer:

Stacks: I would like to see an option for a menu-like (hierarchical) view and an easy way to make the folder icon stay on top.

Menu Bar: Transparency needs to be optional. It looks quite nice with some backgrounds and simply horrible with others.

UI: I would have preferred to see Aqua retired completely, but overall, I'm just glad brushed metal is dead!

Other than that, my Mac is now faster, more useful, and nicer to look at. And as a developer, I have great new tools and tons of new stuff under the hood to explore.

Good job, Apple! :)

matt.shaver
Nov 6, 2007, 11:46 AM
I have used the Mac since System 4 and the most recent memory of all these bugs come from System 7.5, which for me was a waste of code!

All in all, I have went back to Tiger 10.4.10 on my MacBook Pro as there are many items Apple needs to fix. While some may say, "Oh these are version .0 bugs", I disagree. Remember, Apple has been working on this then decided to push it back. I have little sympathy for Apple who decided the iPhone was going to be their new crown jewel and some Mac users felt snubbed.

Now how do we feel? We have a half-baked OS where features are not fully implemented nor tested. There is so much eye candy that it's distracting and pulls a bit away from total functionality.

Overall, I'm disappointed with Apple and I trust their image will not tarnish due to this shoddy release.

Just my thought.

plumbingandtech
Nov 6, 2007, 12:03 PM
After reading much of this thread, I'm starting to think I have the only working copy of Leopard on the planet.


Nope. You don't.

But the rule of online forums is that this where the people with problems post about it for help or to blame apple cause they are evil because they put the iphone ahead of leopard by 4 months.

Squeaky wheels.

psychofreak
Nov 6, 2007, 12:11 PM
Nope. You don't.

But the rule of online forums is that this where the people with problems post about it for help or to blame apple cause they are evil because they put the iphone ahead of leopard by 4 months.

Squeaky wheels.

My Leopard is not perfect, but great! 10.5.1 ftw, but its not like I'm desperate...

MrCrowbar
Nov 6, 2007, 12:15 PM
Many people have been asking for it. It works on Leopard now. All gail Safari on Leopard! :-)

http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/releasenotes.php

psychofreak
Nov 6, 2007, 12:19 PM
Many people have been asking for it. It works on Leopard now. All gail Safari on Leopard! :-)

http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/releasenotes.php

Its been working for a while, and before the working version (with the worse-than-before-installer,) there was PlugSuit...looks like you've been missing out on the Inquisitor goodness for a while :)

madmax_2069
Nov 6, 2007, 12:20 PM
Many people have been asking for it. It works on Leopard now. All gail Safari on Leopard! :-)

http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/releasenotes.php

something like that should have been in safari for Leopard in the first place


After reading much of this thread, I'm starting to think I have the only working copy of Leopard on the planet. :confused:

i haven't had a single crash or issue ( besides Disk Utility nor repairing permissions) with Leopard on my Digital Audio 533, but i will point out the bugs that i do see. the dock does take its sweet ole time when you want to add something to it. but that can just be a minor bug

so far my DA has been running Leopard non stop for 7 - 8 days and nothing has crashed

Project
Nov 6, 2007, 12:36 PM
Just to throw in some more perspective and add to earlier posts, I have had no issues either after an erase & install.

madmax_2069
Nov 6, 2007, 12:47 PM
Just to throw in some more perspective and add to earlier posts, I have had no issues either after an erase & install.


i almost never upgrade a OS, cause it almost all the time spells disaster in the end.

after the numerous times that i have seen bad Os installs from a upgrade install cd (not counting updates from updater) in other OSes, i have since then always installed a clean OS. and it always results in a fast clean running OS

i cant wait to see what fixes 10.5.1 will bring, Bring on the update ( of corse when they are ready so it wont break more then it fixes)

i still cant wait for 10.4.11 to come out ( for my sower Mac's)

pgwalsh
Nov 6, 2007, 01:32 PM
I can't think what I did right/wrong, but for me Leopard is 100% usable. I've not experienced a single crash on my MacBook and all the programs that I use are functional also. I'm on a Mac Pro dual core 3Ghz and everything worked fine on my upgrade as well. I have fewer issues than perviously. I guess I'm lucky.

I did the following for my upgrade.



Backed up Tiger on to external disk with Carbon Copy Cloner.
Erased my entire mirror raid and did a 0 write pass.
Installed Leopard as a clean install with everything.
Created my Admin account and loaded my wireless usb drivers.
Installed iLife 08 and updated the computer.
Used the migration assistant and migrated my user accounts, applications and files.


Had to reenter a couple application serial numbers. I also had to reinstall parallels and create a new floppy drive for my windows virtual machine. Other than that I've had no real issues, just a few minor ones.

glennyboiwpg
Nov 6, 2007, 01:38 PM
After reading much of this thread, I'm starting to think I have the only working copy of Leopard on the planet. :confused:

In any case, I think Leopard trumps Tiger by a wide margin. I've experienced zero issues with it and have only the following quibbles to offer:

Stacks: I would like to see an option for a menu-like (hierarchical) view and an easy way to make the folder icon stay on top.

Menu Bar: Transparency needs to be optional. It looks quite nice with some backgrounds and simply horrible with others.

UI: I would have preferred to see Aqua retired completely, but overall, I'm just glad brushed metal is dead!

Other than that, my Mac is now faster, more useful, and nicer to look at. And as a developer, I have great new tools and tons of new stuff under the hood to explore.

Good job, Apple! :)

Nope don't worry. I also have a 100% usable version of Leopard.

And like someone else said.. Not sure what I did right/wrong but I haven't had any problems, other then a few VERY minor little UI things that i'm sure will get fixed on 10.5.1.

MonkeyClaw
Nov 6, 2007, 01:52 PM
I have used the Mac since System 4 and the most recent memory of all these bugs come from System 7.5, which for me was a waste of code!

All in all, I have went back to Tiger 10.4.10 on my MacBook Pro as there are many items Apple needs to fix. While some may say, "Oh these are version .0 bugs", I disagree. Remember, Apple has been working on this then decided to push it back. I have little sympathy for Apple who decided the iPhone was going to be their new crown jewel and some Mac users felt snubbed.

Now how do we feel? We have a half-baked OS where features are not fully implemented nor tested. There is so much eye candy that it's distracting and pulls a bit away from total functionality.

Overall, I'm disappointed with Apple and I trust their image will not tarnish due to this shoddy release.

Just my thought.

I pretty much the exact opposite. I have yet to have any major bugs or anything, the visual changes are nice and the new features are fantastic, spaces, quick look, hell even coverflow as part of the new finder, all gold stars in my book.

A is jump
Nov 6, 2007, 01:52 PM
Just to put my two cents in... Leopard is working great for me on my home computer. no crashes, no graphics glitches, no sluggishness, no problems.

with that being said, I will not update my MBP (which is my main work computer) until the second or third update. I don't want to chance it.

Manic Mouse
Nov 6, 2007, 01:55 PM
I did a straight upgrade and Leopard has been a painless and smooth transition for me. People here are blowing the bugs out of all proportion, it's a very nice OS that will only get better with updates. I've had no major issues and the minor ones are easily forgivable since Leopard has completely revolutionised OSX for me, with the new Finder, stacks, time machine and spaces all being utterly awesome.

twoboxen
Nov 6, 2007, 02:01 PM
Leopard has been pretty decent, except for the already mentioned Keyboard drops (MBP) and crappy stacks.

I have a question, though. Does anyone know how to fix this issue? Or is it a known bug? I have had the same thing happen with both Tiger and Leopard.

When I have an external mouse connected to my MBP and close the screen, moving the mouse will awaken it from sleep. Now, I understand why you'd want this if you have an external monitor hooked up, but I don't. I have to unplug the mouse before closing the lid or else the screen will come on and be hot as hell when i open it back up. This is a stupid scenario.

Don't EVER turn on the LCD (OLED, whatever) with the lid closed. and ONLY awaken the computer from sleep when EDID present on DVI-out.

Perhaps there is an easy fix. Anyone?

50548
Nov 6, 2007, 02:06 PM
So far I'm favorably impressed with Leopard. Not bad at all for a new OS.

But I have run into a few minor problems too.

As IEatApples pointed out, Disk Utility won't repair permissions.

And the Dock won't redraw properly after running a graphics intensive game. I keep my dock at the bottom, and after running Jinni Zeala, the Dock icons are covered with green blobs. Moving the Dock to the side and then back to the bottom clears it up.

The Leopard installer did not retain my mail SMTP settings. I tried to send an email and the send button was grayed-out. After a little searching around I discovered that my outgoing server settings were blank.

Of course, Finder no longer automatically remembers window settings - it applies one setting globally, unless you goto info and check a button to always use a setting for a particular window. This isn't really a bug, but a feature loss.

Time Machine could use a few more user options, such as choosing the frequency of backups, having a backup now button, etc. Again, it's not a bug but a feature nice to have.

Overall though I really like Leopard. Can't wait to see what's in this first revision.

So far, so good for me as well...no major hassles, and Disk Utility DOES repair permissions, although it takes a long time and shows no details...this needs to be fixed.

TM seems to be fine until now, although I recently got a 30sec freeze on my external HD, probably because of a bus error...

All in all, a VERY solid upgrade and everything is snappier, especially Safari, Finder and Mail...really good.

Switched2aMac
Nov 6, 2007, 02:10 PM
[QUOTE=Alloye;4452471]After reading much of this thread, I'm starting to think I have the only working copy of Leopard on the planet. :confused:

Me Too. I have had no problems and everything is working as expected. I do think there is a lot of work that needs to be done, it is not perfect in any way. Ex. iChat backgrounds do not work like they do in the Leopard demo. As for stacks, it took me a while to get used to them but they are growing on me. Would be a nice feature to disable it.

morespce54
Nov 6, 2007, 02:18 PM
This (http://tomkarpik.com/articles/massive-data-loss-bug-in-leopard/) doesn't look good.

Wow... I was lucky enough to never encountered this before... :eek::eek:

marcfiszman
Nov 6, 2007, 02:20 PM
New Spaces preference in 10.5.1: Metaview
http://odelbee.com/2007/11/06/new-spaces-preference-in-1051-metaview/

izzle22
Nov 6, 2007, 02:28 PM
i almost never upgrade a OS, cause it almost all the time spells disaster in the end.

after the numerous times that i have seen bad Os installs from a upgrade install cd (not counting updates from updater) in other OSes, i have since then always installed a clean OS. and it always results in a fast clean running OS

i cant wait to see what fixes 10.5.1 will bring, Bring on the update ( of corse when they are ready so it wont break more then it fixes)

i still cant wait for 10.4.11 to come out ( for my sower Mac's)

I've never done a clean install. I always do upgrades and never had any problems(I've done upgrades on Panther, Tiger and now Leopard). The only problems I am seeing with Leopard are the same small ones the people who have done clean installs have.

psychofreak
Nov 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
New Spaces preference in 10.5.1: Metaview
http://odelbee.com/2007/11/06/new-spaces-preference-in-1051-metaview/

I don't use Spaces, but I'm desperate to find out what that is!

morespce54
Nov 6, 2007, 02:32 PM
...Sometimes I see shared machines, sometimes I don't...

That's strange... I had this problem a few days ago. i connected to an on-line server and (except for the server window that automatically opens) there were nowhere I could see the server (not in the source pane of my wiindows and not on my desktop). Of course, before I notice that, I closed the server window thinking the server will show up in the source pane of my finder windows...

After quite sometime :o, I've figured I had to set the finder preference to show the "Computer" source in the source pane. Then, I could select the "computer" in the source pane and (only then) I could see the server in that window...

The server never appeared on the Desktop nor in my shared or any source pane.


btw, I'm talking about the "computer" source in the finder preferences, not "my sweet mac HD" source...

morespce54
Nov 6, 2007, 02:48 PM
Firstly, the idiot MOVED instead of COPY a file - first stupid mistake, second, read the following:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=351141&cid=21248993

There are a tonne of variables which are left open to question; btw, I have a hard disk hooked up to my airport shared via smb, and no problems.


Oh yeah, your right!
"Move" should never be used. It's probably an old *nix command that has been replace by copy/delete for ages. I just can't figured out why they forgot to remove it from the system...

tribulation
Nov 6, 2007, 03:42 PM
I did a straight upgrade and Leopard has been a painless and smooth transition for me. People here are blowing the bugs out of all proportion, it's a very nice OS that will only get better with updates. I've had no major issues and the minor ones are easily forgivable since Leopard has completely revolutionised OSX for me, with the new Finder, stacks, time machine and spaces all being utterly awesome.

not true. thats nice it works for you but it doesnt for many.
if you saw my screen and all of the crap that gets drawn on it like lines all over every window you would be complaining too. if you havent had the bugs that is fine but dont trivialize them unless you know what youre talking about :rolleyes:

IzzyJG99
Nov 6, 2007, 04:28 PM
I reverted back to 10.4.10 after trying to install not once, but 20 times over the phone with Apple 10.5 after I had a major crash. First I upgraded 10.4.10 to 10.5 and everything was fine. I opened the hard drive icon and there were all sorts of strange files that I had never seen before bin// and 'kernal_guidance-Mach" and stuff like that. So then I did a clean wipe and installed 10.5. Same problem. The guy suggested I restore to 10.4.10. Great. Did it. Worked. Then upgraded 5 times. Each time it took me to a screen wanting my password and username. I'd type it in and it wouldn't take it. Repaired permissions. Repaired the disk. Nothing was working. Finally after literally 6 hours on the phone with them they decided I had a bad disc and would ship me out one. The way he was talking though I shouldn't expect it (He just about all but flat out said it) anytime soon because according to him 2.5 million Leapord users are experieicing this same problem and are wanting replacement discs. The product repair tech I also spoke to mentioned that since the 26th alone there has been at least a doubling of calls to the OS-X Applecare Office. He even mumbled as he took my information that the developers didn't do very good job at weeding out the bugs.

I am frankly furious. If this new disc does the same as the one I already have I am going to revert back to 10.4 until the discs that ship out are at least version 10.5.3 so all the bugs have been worked out with this failed installation process.

And this whole thing started after my first install of 10.5 crashed because iTunes 7.5 blew up. Keep in mind I had 1,500 songs in there. All of which were purchased from the iTunes Music Store. They were supposed to have been backed up by Time Machine, but guess what apparently time Machine only really backs up iTunes Music once a week!

I'm furious, people.

jeremytehjerk
Nov 6, 2007, 04:42 PM
os 10.5 is a pleasure to work with and all but flat out not finishing coding all the security options for wireless and just leaving the options there to check when the system doesn't know how to handle them (PEAP not supported for 802.1x though it is a checkbox option, and ive heard there are other similiar missing pieces with wireless under 10.5) is just sloppy and clearly should have been noticed up the chain of command somewhere before launching the product. i would have expected apple to be more open about this and giving the many colleges and other affected IT departments trying to contact them some aid in fixing this, but i guess hopefully this update will handle these problems.

alpharuin
Nov 6, 2007, 05:03 PM
Right now my MacBookPro is virtually unusable:

- Constant keyboard freezes
- Airport keeps dropping my connection
- Random freezing "please restart your computer" screens about 2-3 times a day

Leopard was obviously rushed in order to be released by the end of October. Hopefully 10.5.1 will be a stable like a retail version is suppose to be.

bilbo--baggins
Nov 6, 2007, 05:10 PM
People here are blowing the bugs out of all proportion, it's a very nice OS that will only get better with updates.

It took me 4 attempts to install Leopard - in the end the only way I could get the installer to work was to unplug my D-Link Bluetooth adapter and go out and buy a cheap USB mouse. Then finally installed ok. It's running pretty well now - but you can imagine someone who buys a mac because it 'just works' and who has problems installing could very easily feel that they aren't blowing the bugs out of all proportion.

With such major bluetooth incompatibility problems (I still have to have the D-link dongle plugged into 1 of those 3 precious USB ports on my G5 because it doesn't work via my powered hub - a hub that was rock solid and 100% reliable in all circumstances in Tiger) I for one would be very interested to find out if I can exchange my Leopard installer DVD for a newer version once they get these bugs sorted out.

SthrnCmfrtr
Nov 6, 2007, 06:26 PM
Well, unless Leopard crashes and forces a hard restart literally every five to ten minutes, then it's nowhere near as bad as 7.5.3

I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate issues with Leopard, but anyone who wants to make the "Worst OS Revision EVAH!" claim really needs to have worked in a design studio (or any kind of professional environment) trying to use 7.5.3 ...

IIRC, you couldn't even go back from 7.5.3 if you had certain types of NT boxes on your network that you needed to connect to (I'm pretty sure that we only upgradeded to 7.5.3 because it had a TCP/IP revision that was necessary for shared networking with an NT server).

I actually saw grown men and women literally weeping with frustration as they tried to hit deadlines using that disgraceful piece of cr*p. I memorably had to physically restrain our Design Manager from hurling his PM 7200 across the room when he discovered that although he'd saved a Quark document relatively recently before a crash, the crash had corrupted the document itself.

And that, Gil Amelio, is one of the reasons I'll never forget your time at Apple!

Cheers

Jim

I thought Spindler was the CEO when 7.5.3 came out...

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 07:04 PM
Yes there is a resume function for videos in front row in Leopard. i just tried it and it asked my to resume play it start from beginning. my major gripe with FR is you cant tell it what folders you want to add to the video or music or other. and other gripe is that some videos that will play in QT wont play in FR (even if you put them in the movies folder.

what is the sources tab there for ( just for looks) cause it don't do anything



i have let it sit there for about 45 minutes and it does nothing, i gave up on it. it makes me so mad just watching it i want to punch the screen in anger. but i cant do that to my Mac cause it is not its fault, its Apples for rushing Leopard out the door

Which brings up an important question - what the h*ll were the beta testers doing? Why weren't there voices of discontent during the beta testing phase to the same degree there was with Windows Vista? I wonder whether there was actually a beta testing phase to begin with!

duyvan82
Nov 6, 2007, 07:04 PM
I just wish they updated the graphic drivers for us GMA users and fix that shared thing on the sidebar. Animations have been choppy for me and other people on Mac equipped with GMA (I even tried those Macbooks at Apple store, same issue). As for the shared thing, it just can't stop appearing and disappearing randomly and unexpectedly :(

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 07:05 PM
A lot of people have had issues with flash not working after Leopard - either from an upgrade or a clean install.

I performed an Archive and Install and flash did not work. There is a plethora of pages regarding this issue on Apple Discussion. Are all those people walking disasters?

The solution involves removing an invalid reference to flash from within a Quicktime.plugin.plist file. That's a far cry from walking disaster.

I was referring to your friend as a 'walking disaster' not the operating system.

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 07:08 PM
something like that should have been in safari for Leopard in the first place

True, which brings me to ask; why did they spend thousands changing the firewall, and writing their own when had they simply approached this guy, purchased it off him, they would have added a killer feature to Safari which would have had a "******** awesome" factor.

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 07:10 PM
I just wish they updated the graphic drivers for us GMA users and fix that shared thing on the sidebar. Animations have been choppy for me and other people on Mac equipped with GMA (I even tried those Macbooks at Apple store, same issue). As for the shared thing, it just can't stop appearing and disappearing randomly and unexpectedly :(

Just out of curiosity, what type of process/specifications is teh Macbook; I'm running a Black Macbook, and haven't noticed a lack of 'teh snappy' - mind you, I have 2gigs of memory, maybe thats whats fixed it up?

ckurowic
Nov 6, 2007, 07:11 PM
I'm a little irritated some folks on here are down on those who are having problems. Oh, it must have been something they did, because Apple always puts out total gold...um no. Sorry. I love Apple, but sometimes they do put out half baked stuff, and while I think Leopard is for sure a few steps above half baked, it does have many issues that need to be worked out. I have used Macs since age 7, system 6, I know what I am doing. I have had the following issues:

1) UI sluggishness (as reported by MANY users, not just PPC users, so don't tell me my computer is just too old, please).
2) Shared computers decide when they want to work, not when I want them to
3) A very minor complaint...its harder to tell which Apps are open as opposed to Tiger because instead of a high-contrast black triangle under the icon we now have a translucent orb.

The things I LOVE about Leopard:
1) My G5 seems speedier, but the UI sluggishness ruins some of the experience
2) The Finder is easier to use, at least to me
3) The internet seems to be faster, not sure why
4) Dashboard is much faster, at least 2x

The UI sluggishness has nothing to do with the GMA chipset. I'm running a Radeon 9600 Pro with 256MB of video RAM and its sluggish. Tiger was silky. I also have 4GB of RAM.

QuarterSwede
Nov 6, 2007, 07:16 PM
I'm a little irritated some folks on here are down on those who are having problems.

1) UI sluggishness (as reported by MANY users, not just PPC users, so don't tell me my computer is just too old, please).
It's definitely not right for people to assume that since their install is perfect that Leopard runs well for others. I have a 1.5GHz 12" PB w/1.25GB RAM and I don't experience UI slowdowns at all. I definitely did after I did an Upgrade but once I decided to do an Erase & Install everything's been beautifully smooth. BUT, I understand that other may have problems. I hope they address your issues.

ckurowic
Nov 6, 2007, 07:18 PM
It's definitely not right for people to assume that since their install is perfect that Leopard runs well for others. I have a 1.5GHz 12" PB w/1.25GB RAM and I don't experience UI slowdowns at all. I definitely did after I did an Upgrade but once I decided to do an Erase & Install everything's beautifully smooth. BUT, I understand that other may have problems. I hope they address your issues.

I appreciate it. Its very odd. I did an erase and install after I noticed coverflow wasn't an option. I have a Mac mini that runs Leopard faster than my G5. Odd indeed.

psychofreak
Nov 6, 2007, 07:25 PM
- Random freezing "please restart your computer" screens about 2-3 times a day

Leopard was obviously rushed in order to be released by the end of October. Hopefully 10.5.1 will be a stable like a retail version is suppose to be.

Those are Kernal Panics and quite possibly indicate a hardware issue...

kaiwai
Nov 6, 2007, 07:45 PM
Those are Kernal Panics and quite possibly indicate a hardware issue...

Don't expect him to take the advice, its all Apple's fault according to him.

IzzyJG99
Nov 6, 2007, 07:54 PM
I enclosed a screen shot of the odd redundant files that get installed onto my HD when I do a clean install of 10.5 or an archive and install.

I'm reverting back to 10.4.10 for good after this happen. This was my last shot. No more Leopard for me.

vvebsta
Nov 6, 2007, 08:14 PM
Things I think need fixing:

1] Back To My Mac - great potential but works sloppy at best. I haven't got it to actually fully work like its supposed to.

2] Time Machine via Airport - What good is it if you have to tether your MB or MBP to the wall every time you want to back something up. Make it work over the wireless with a hard drive connected to AP Extreme.

3] Final Cut Studio - fix the THE OZONE PLUG-IN bug.

4] Notes and To Dos - Why do they not show up in a little side folder in .Mac mail when I open up mail in a browser?

5] Stacks - Why can't a stack actually be a folder in itself? Right now they boil down to a fancy shortcut. I would love to select all the clutter on my desktop and drag them onto the dock and have them become a new stack and disappear from my desktop.

6] iDisk - syncing is slow and painful if you have big files on there. I get repeated 'sync failed' messages, most of the time and when it finally does my internet slows way down.

6] iCal - I would still love to see the entire week all at once in week view. I hate that I have to scroll to see the bottom. How hard would it be to add a zoom slider.

There are other things that I'm forgetting but those are the ones off the top of my head. But there are so many things I love about Leopard as well!! Keep up the good work Apple!

adamfishercox
Nov 6, 2007, 08:33 PM
5] Stacks - Why can't a stack actually be a folder in itself? Right now they boil down to a fancy shortcut. I would love to select all the clutter on my desktop and drag them onto the dock and have them become a new stack and disappear from my desktop.


Hear, hear!

That would actually make stacks useful. I still want to know what idiot suggested they remove the selection-makes-a-stack function.

cohibadad
Nov 6, 2007, 08:38 PM
Disk Warrior is NOT Leopard-ready!

Disk Warrior hung for me under Leopard. Works fine booted from CD though.

cohibadad
Nov 6, 2007, 08:39 PM
i hope they fix iChat, video chat is not working

works fine for me including 4 person video and share screen iChat.

cohibadad
Nov 6, 2007, 08:54 PM
I enclosed a screen shot of the odd redundant files that get installed onto my HD when I do a clean install of 10.5 or an archive and install.

I'm reverting back to 10.4.10 for good after this happen. This was my last shot. No more Leopard for me.

:rolleyes:

cohibadad
Nov 6, 2007, 09:01 PM
I call them idiots because they firstly think that an operating system change will fix all the problems, and secondly, they assume that their problems are solely the domain of the operating system. Windows Vista will not fix the problems. He'll install it and find a whole new set of problems. I ran Windows Vista, and I can tell you as a *NIX battle axe (and ex-Amiga zealot) its pain is the equivalent of being kneed in the groin by a man with steel cap boots.

Sorry mate, when things don't work for me on my computer, I look in the mirror and ask, "what did I do wrong which cocked things up" - I am the first port of call when it comes to something going wrong. Then once I've done everything to eliminate myself from the blame equation, I then look outside of that.

I don't think it helps to call people idiots but I have to agree that it is very idiotic. Installing 10.5.0 on a machine you depend on, having problems and then switching to Vista cuz it just works?

tribulation
Nov 6, 2007, 09:09 PM
Which brings up an important question - what the h*ll were the beta testers doing? Why weren't there voices of discontent during the beta testing phase to the same degree there was with Windows Vista? I wonder whether there was actually a beta testing phase to begin with!

from the stability and design I would say the sr graphic designer's 4th grade son and his best friend were the beta testers.

IzzyJG99
Nov 6, 2007, 09:15 PM
:rolleyes:

Yanno what just occured to me? All the errors that happen were because the HD had a " in it. On a whim I did an archive and install (Quickest) after renaming the HD just "Macintosh HD" and....it worked and now it's good to go. Oh well. At least now I'll have to two copies of 10.5.



PS. Yeah, I'm retarded. :p

Alloye
Nov 6, 2007, 09:31 PM
I enclosed a screen shot of the odd redundant files that get installed onto my HD when I do a clean install of 10.5 or an archive and install.

Yanno what just occured to me? All the errors that happen were because the HD had a " in it. On a whim I did an archive and install (Quickest) after renaming the HD just "Macintosh HD" and....it worked and now it's good to go. Oh well. At least now I'll have to two copies of 10.5.

Well, you did uncover a bug. Most of the "odd" files in your screenshot actually belong there. What's weird is that Finder isn't supposed to show them. Looks like the " in your volume name triggered an edge case that wasn't accounted for during testing.

IzzyJG99
Nov 6, 2007, 09:36 PM
Well, you did uncover a bug. Most of the "odd" files in your screenshot actually belong there. What's weird is that Finder isn't supposed to show them. Looks like the " in your volume name triggered an edge case that wasn't accounted for during testing.

I first thought maybe my disc wasn't telling 10.5 to HIDE the invisible files that are here and there in OS-X. If that was the case I was going to find that preference that allows you to show/hide invisible files. Wasn't the case. But it all seems good now.

Apple I think should tell people in the installer and documentation to NOT name your HD this or that with this or that character to avoid this problem. I'm surprised that the several hours I spent on the phone with Apple they didn't even pick up on that fact. I guess it's just a rare thing.

tribulation
Nov 6, 2007, 09:40 PM
Don't expect him to take the advice, its all Apple's fault according to him.

i did a zeroed out clean install of leopard and it freezes up at least 3 or 4 times a day. so dont be so quick to say that there arent problems. my tiger install ran perfect and never crashed. maybe like 10 times in 2 years but at least it showed the kernel panic screen. in leopard it just dies with not even the panic screen :confused:

as to huge bugs just go to :apple: support and look. so many reports with hundreds of replies on the same issue
look at the graphics bug that is very common
here are just 2 screenshots of them but there are thousands posted and it does the same on mine:
http://i21.tinypic.com/2zyixkg.png
http://i23.tinypic.com/zumjxx.png

does that look minor to you?? no not when it happens constantly and you cant do anything without crap drawn all over. there are SOOOOO many huge bugs like this everywhere
and dont say its a hardware issue because its not. just started with leopard as it did for thousands of others. plus you can screenshot it which means its not a bad cable or coincidence

seriously people there are things,big things wrong and broken in leopard that couldve EASILY been fixed and caught if they werent in such a hurry to make a deadline so they didnt look like MS with vista. except now in my mind they look much worse because of the almost ridiculous bugs that are in it

tmailander
Nov 6, 2007, 10:30 PM
1. Airport: Can't connect to my home Airport network with WEP security;

2. Applecare-If there is a problem with Airport on Leopard, placing Applecare customers into a never ending telephone cue for Airport support is not good customer service. How about a press release that at least lets customers know that a patch is forthcoming? It would save everybody a lot of time and frustration. Witness the thousands of posts on Apple's support pages.

Alloye
Nov 6, 2007, 10:31 PM
seriously people there are things,big things wrong and broken in leopard that couldve EASILY been fixed and caught if they werent in such a hurry to make a deadline so they didnt look like MS with vista. except now in my mind they look much worse because of the almost ridiculous bugs that are in it

I'm personally not having any negative issues with Leopard, but I do agree it was rushed out the door. The fact that Apple was still working on it the weekend before the GM announcement says it all.

In any case, I think Apple needs to embrace the practice of seeding release candidates for a few weeks prior to shipping. Since they already do this for point releases (i.e. 10.4.11), I fail to understand why ADC wasn't given an opportunity to test the final or near-final builds of Leopard. Instead we were cut-off for nearly a month in a vain attempt to curb piracy. :rolleyes:

Foxglove9
Nov 7, 2007, 12:13 AM
Apple I think should tell people in the installer and documentation to NOT name your HD this or that with this or that character to avoid this problem

i have the same problem too. Only I didn't know it was a problem I thought everyone's Leopard had those invisible files showing. Though it did irk me as I never saw them in Panther or Leopard but I thought maybe it had something to do with X11 being installed?

Notice my Hard Drive is simply called "Untitled".

I don't plan on reinstalling just to get rid of those folders. However, could that mean my install didn't go well? It was a clean install, weird.

TheChemist
Nov 7, 2007, 12:20 AM
I was referring to your friend as a 'walking disaster' not the operating system.


I don't even know the guy.

Seems to be a misunderstanding in our posts.

madmax_2069
Nov 7, 2007, 12:28 AM
i have the same problem too. Only I didn't know it was a problem I thought everyone's Leopard had those invisible files showing. Though it did irk me as I never saw them in Panther or Leopard but I thought maybe it had something to do with X11 being installed?

Notice my Hard Drive is simply called "Untitled".

I don't plan on reinstalling just to get rid of those folders. However, could that mean my install didn't go well? It was a clean install, weird.

my install don't show the hidden files or folders, all is fine there.

another issue i just ran into, is with the DVD player, it will play all except for 2 of my dvd's the dvd player say;s its skipping over the damaged area's and then stops playing. and the dvd player wont respond to any input other then its menu functions.

the dvd player in tiger plays all of my DVD's without fail. oh and BTW the 2 DVD's that leopard's DVD player reports as having damaged area's are new DVD's. they will start up ad go thru the legal stuff but once its past that part it say's its skipping past the damaged areas of the disk and goes into the DVD menu and wont respond.

i hope this is fixed

EDIT

i just played the 2 DVD's that DVD player had issues with in Front Row and it played them with no issues, VLC also played them with no issues, so its defiantly a bug with DVD player in leopard

THX1139
Nov 7, 2007, 01:28 AM
After cruising this thread I realize that I might be the only person who is happy with Leopard. I think there are a few quirks here and there but I haven't run into any deal breakers. I'm not having any of the major problems that people are complaining about. Even Stacks is acceptable to me! I don't understand why some people hate stacks so much. I set mine to view as grid and it awesome. I also setup my storage drive to view the same way.

I love Spaces!

I'm wondering if most of you are having hardware specific problems? Seems most people who are having problems with Leopard are on iMacs. I'm running a MacPro 2.66 and couldn't be happier with Leopard. I didn't expect this to go as smooth as it did, so I installed over a copy of Tiger on a separate drive so I could easily go back. That was a week ago and I haven't booted back to Tiger since. Oh, and I didn't even do a clean install! Just upgraded right over Tiger.

I love Spaces!

The only major issue I had was with AEBS. The other day I lost connection and when I tried to reconnect it kept asking for my password. I wound up restarting my computer and the problem went away.

As for those posts from people who are ranting and raving about how much Leopard sucks, I suggest you go back to Tiger and spare us your misery. It's the price you pay to be an early adopter. No sane person with any computer experience would expect a first version OS to operate at 100% from day one. That's why I left a copy of Tiger to go back to. All I had to do was hold down the option key on start-up and choose which drive to boot off. One drive has Tiger, the other has Leopard. So far, I've not needed to go back to Tiger and I'm even thinking of erasing the Tiger disk to free up some space. Oh, and did I tell you? I really love Spaces! It's changed my whole work flow!

And yeah, my MacPro is running snappier! Even some of my everyday applications seem to be more stable. Time machine works great too! I've already used it a couple of times to grab some deleted files. Good job Apple!! :D

madmax_2069
Nov 7, 2007, 01:46 AM
After cruising this thread I realize that I might be the only person who is happy with Leopard. I think there are a few quirks here and there but I haven't run into any deal breakers. I'm not having any of the major problems that people are complaining about. Even Stacks is acceptable to me! I don't understand why some people hate stacks so much. I set mine to view as grid and it awesome. I also setup my storage drive to view the same way.

I love Spaces!

I'm wondering if most of you are having hardware specific problems? Seems most people who are having problems with Leopard are on iMacs. I'm running a MacPro 2.66 and couldn't be happier with Leopard. I didn't expect this to go as smooth as it did, so I installed over a copy of Tiger on a separate drive so I could easily go back. That was a week ago and I haven't booted back to Tiger since. Oh, and I didn't even do a clean install! Just upgraded right over Tiger.

I love Spaces!

The only major issue I had was with AEBS. The other day I lost connection and when I tried to reconnect it kept asking for my password. I wound up restarting my computer and the problem went away.

As for those posts from people who are ranting and raving about how much Leopard sucks, I suggest you go back to Tiger and spare us your misery. It's the price you pay to be an early adopter. No sane person with any computer experience would expect a first version OS to operate at 100% from day one. That's why I left a copy of Tiger to go back to. All I had to do was hold down the option key on start-up and choose which drive to boot off. One drive has Tiger, the other has Leopard. So far, I've not needed to go back to Tiger and I'm even thinking of erasing the Tiger disk to free up some space. Oh, and did I tell you? I really love Spaces! It's changed my whole work flow!

And yeah, my MacPro is running snappier! Even some of my everyday applications seem to be more stable. Time machine works great too! I've already used it a couple of times to grab some deleted files. Good job Apple!! :D

there is very few people here that ever said it suck's, and some of the people already went back to tiger and wait till Leopards issues are fixed.

i am only pointing out issues, in no way shape or form did i ever say that Leopard sucks. i am rather happy with it. and glad its running like it is on my G4. and my issues are not hardware issues, i make sure that it can be done again and have a alternative way to do what i want to do ( just like with the DVD player issue i said about) wile Front Row and VLC has no issue.

i am only pointing out issues so that is can help give people a heads up or to see if they are having the same issues

djellison
Nov 7, 2007, 02:13 AM
It's the price you pay to be an early adopter. No sane person with any computer experience would expect a first version OS to operate at 100% from day one

This is sixth version, not the first.

I'm not having enormous issues, but I do have some - and I just can not see how this got thru a beta program - things such as the network tab in finder vanishing randomly, the complete beta status of Safari (it was brought to a complete halt by the British Airways website, and can't even render somepages at apple.com properly, all the while playing animated gif's at 1/5th the speed they should) - things that frankly, are just not up to the Apple standard.

Doug

duyvan82
Nov 7, 2007, 02:43 AM
Just out of curiosity, what type of process/specifications is teh Macbook; I'm running a Black Macbook, and haven't noticed a lack of 'teh snappy' - mind you, I have 2gigs of memory, maybe thats whats fixed it up?

Mine is a White 1.83Ghz CoreDuo with 2Gigs of RAM. The one I tested at our local Apple Store was a 2Ghz Core2Duo with 1Gig of RAM. Both were very choppy..
As people have been reporting, this choppiness seems to happen very randomly. As a matter of fact, one of my friends who's got the same Macbook as mine does not have any problem with animations at all, everything is silky smooth on his. I even tried to do a clean install but it still doesn't fix it.

headfuzz
Nov 7, 2007, 06:42 AM
Disk Warrior hung for me under Leopard. Works fine booted from CD though.

Interesting. Must admit all I asked it to do was reset the permissions that Disk Utility wouldn't (as it was there only 2 in the end, but they were pretty important files); what version were you using and what were you asking of it?

Mine is DW 4.something and one of the apps migrated from my Tiger partition onto a Leopard clean install...

kaiwai
Nov 7, 2007, 07:08 AM
Mine is a White 1.83Ghz CoreDuo with 2Gigs of RAM. The one I tested at our local Apple Store was a 2Ghz Core2Duo with 1Gig of RAM. Both were very choppy..
As people have been reporting, this choppiness seems to happen very randomly. As a matter of fact, one of my friends who's got the same Macbook as mine does not have any problem with animations at all, everything is silky smooth on his. I even tried to do a clean install but it still doesn't fix it.

I remember when I first installed 10.4.x when it first came out - it was choppy back then on the Mac G5 I had; then with each release, it improved. Maybe 10.5.1 will see an improvement.

kaiwai
Nov 7, 2007, 07:24 AM
I don't think it helps to call people idiots but I have to agree that it is very idiotic. Installing 10.5.0 on a machine you depend on, having problems and then switching to Vista cuz it just works?

True; also, does he have software already for Vista? he has a copy for each operating system? he obviously has money to burn.

I've purchased 10.3 when was released, same for 10.4 - and *ALL* of them were buggy when released; then they stabilised. Like I said to my mate, at least with Apple, there will be an update 2-3 weeks after the release rather than waiting 12 months for the first service pack for Windows.

Regarding the flash problem people mention:

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20071101152707293

Interesting, if people read the article, it is those who have upgraded their Flash. Me? I've kept the flash that was included with Leopard - haven't experienced a single problem yet.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 09:33 AM
Like I said to my mate, at least with Apple, there will be an update 2-3 weeks after the release rather than waiting 12 months for the first service pack for Windows.

I hope that your mate responded with:

"Yes, but Microsoft can delay the SP bundle because they don't wait for a .1, .2, .3,... in order to fix things. Windows Update delivers a steady stream of fixes as they become ready.

Vista SP1 will be a 50 MB download, or a 1 GB DVD image for standalone. The 950 MB difference is due to the fact that the bulk of SP1 is already installed by Windows Updates."

http://www.winvistaclub.com/i2.html

OSX and Windows just take different solutions for the same problem (timely delivery of fixes) - it doesn't make one approach "right" and the other "wrong".

kaiwai
Nov 7, 2007, 10:05 AM
I hope that your mate responded with:

"Yes, but Microsoft can delay the SP bundle because they don't wait for a .1, .2, .3,... in order to fix things. Windows Update delivers a steady stream of fixes as they become ready.

Vista SP1 will be a 50 MB download, or a 1 GB DVD image for standalone. The 950 MB difference is due to the fact that the bulk of SP1 is already installed by Windows Updates."

http://www.winvistaclub.com/i2.html

OSX and Windows just take different solutions for the same problem (timely delivery of fixes) - it doesn't make one approach "right" and the other "wrong".

Steady stream of 'Quick Fixes' which don't have the same level of testing as their service packs - read up on their website and why they don't recommend installing them unless you really need to.

Btw, Microsoft were actually going to move to a fixed service pack release cycle, but never got around to implementing it. It was meant to be service packs every x number of months, on the dot. IIRC I think it was planned back the Windows 2000 years. Either way, had they stuck to that plan, SP2 should have been released in November, rather than Sp1.

FoxyKaye
Nov 7, 2007, 12:32 PM
Well, here's an interesting thing - I sent in the Up-to-Date paperwork rather late, and I just got my shipping notice today. Check out the tail end of the line that gives the SKU information (bold):

SKU #DescriptionQty ShippedMB025Z/AMAC OSX10.5 UTD12Z034-445410RTC OS X10.51

I wonder if we're going to see 10.5.1 this week, though doesn't Apple usually put out OS updates on Fridays?

yetti_876
Nov 7, 2007, 01:28 PM
Sidebar Leopard Problems:

1. All the shares on the network are visible in the sidebar. I don't like this since all my co-workers machines are littering my sidebar with random machines. I like the 10.4 behavior where I pick which machines I connect to and _only_ those machines show up in the sidebar.

2. Sidebar 'Places' and 'search for' move up and down when co-workers turn their machines on and off. (plus I need to frequently scroll to see my sidebar folders since I've got the max of 7 shares + all... showing in the shares, and I use shares frequently so I keep that disclosure triangle expanded.

3. The words 'Devices', 'shared', 'places', and 'search for' are unnecessary and take up vertical space. Just like in 10.4, there should be just a separator line instead of using text as a separator.

4. Shares should refresh faster.

djellison
Nov 7, 2007, 05:00 PM
All the shares on the network are visible in the sidebar.

Give it long enogh - the entire tab will vanish.

Doug

kaiwai
Nov 7, 2007, 08:03 PM
Well, here's an interesting thing - I sent in the Up-to-Date paperwork rather late, and I just got my shipping notice today. Check out the tail end of the line that gives the SKU information (bold):

SKU #DescriptionQty ShippedMB025Z/AMAC OSX10.5 UTD12Z034-445410RTC OS X10.51

I wonder if we're going to see 10.5.1 this week, though doesn't Apple usually put out OS updates on Fridays?

Whats the lead time like on your uptodate order? I'm assuming that they hope if there is no negative feedback from the testing of the patch, they'll try to get it out asap. They've probably been working on it in parallel to 10.5.0 so hopefully that'll mean its well tested.

FoxyKaye
Nov 7, 2007, 08:11 PM
Whats the lead time like on your uptodate order? I'm assuming that they hope if there is no negative feedback from the testing of the patch, they'll try to get it out asap. They've probably been working on it in parallel to 10.5.0 so hopefully that'll mean its well tested.
That's what's weird about it, my Up-to-Date order shipped on Monday. However, it looks like the developer seed of 10.5.1 also went out very recently. I can't imagine Apple would ship 10.5.1 as part of the UTD program before it goes to developers, but lately fathoming what's going on inside Apple's head is much trickier. Anyhow - since it went first class, it should be in my hands by the end of the week. Even though I'm not planning to install Leopard in the immediate future (or at least until I see what exactly 10.5.1 fixes), I'll repost with the info on whatever build they shipped to me. This could just be some sort of weird coincidence with their SKU numbers, or maybe they'll be sending a follow-up installer CD of the 10.5.1 update (though I don't recall Apple doing that in a long time) or maybe I really will get a 10.5.1 updater DVD.

TerryJ
Nov 14, 2007, 03:42 PM
i have the same problem too. Only I didn't know it was a problem I thought everyone's Leopard had those invisible files showing. Though it did irk me as I never saw them in Panther or Leopard but I thought maybe it had something to do with X11 being installed?

Notice my Hard Drive is simply called "Untitled".

I don't plan on reinstalling just to get rid of those folders. However, could that mean my install didn't go well? It was a clean install, weird.
I had the "mach_kernel" file showing on my main Macintosh HD level, which startled me, after installing Leopard. I was able to install a later developer Leopard build and the "mach_kernel" file went back to its invisible good self. Bug fixes, indeed!

-Terry