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MacRumors
Nov 6, 2007, 08:21 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Crave revives (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/0,39029450,49293967,00.htm) a long-running rumor that Apple may be working on a Tablet Mac.

The latest claim comes from "friends at Asus" who told Crave that "Asus is helping Apple build a Tablet PC." Further information from their source indicated that it will not be based on existing Asus designs and will come from a completely new blueprint.

While Apple Tablet rumors have been running for years, the possibility of it seems more likely now than ever with all of Apple's research into touch-based interfaces. The last rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/11/26/apple-mac-tablet-with-docking-station-in-2007/) of an actual "Tablet Mac" came from Smarthouse.com.au in late 2006 in which Apple was said to be working on an Intel-based Tablet Mac with docking station and HDMI output. More recently, however, Appleinsider (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/26/the-return-of-the-newton-apple-pda/) described a project inside Apple that was described as a PDA but would carry a form factor about "1.5 times the size of the current iPhone" which we could see as early as January at Macworld San Francisco 2008.

Rumors of a Tablet Mac hit an all time high in 2003 (http://www.macrumors.com/2003/02/21/the-evidence-for-the-mac-tablet/) when multiple sources pointed to the existence of a Tablet device from Apple, but for whatever reason was never released.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/06/apple-working-on-a-tablet-mac/)



koobcamuk
Nov 6, 2007, 08:23 AM
Maybe I'll be getting a MBP next year then... no ultraportable? You can't get all your work done on something 1.5* iPhone size.

twoodcc
Nov 6, 2007, 08:23 AM
here we go again.....

i really hope it's true though. and it does make sense, with the iPhone and all. only time will tell

xUKHCx
Nov 6, 2007, 08:23 AM
Suppose the iPhone can be seen as a testing bed for multi-touch that will no doubt end up in ths product. Along wth sensing pixels to allow you to scan documents on the go this when it comes (and it will, after all the iPhone eventually made it out) will make it killer.

But friends at asus, reminds me of a recent thread where a newbies cousin was big at apple.

BornAgainMac
Nov 6, 2007, 08:28 AM
I tried a Windows-based PC with a touch screen and it was pretty cool. I would like to see Apple have something like that. In 2008/2009, I hope these are more common. Multi-touch would be sweet.

happydude
Nov 6, 2007, 08:30 AM
Maybe I'll be getting a MBP next year then... no ultraportable? You can't get all your work done on something 1.5* iPhone size.

what would be the benefit of a tablet mac. i know the idea sounds cool and it (as is apple fashion) would look awesome, but what would one actually do with a tablet? just be able to draw/take handwritten notes vs. only type? isn't that why more and more college students are taking laptops to school - so they don't have to take handwriting notes?

maybe i'm off on practicality, but i'm just not seeing it . . .

if you want compact, bring on the 12" MBP!!!

idea_hamster
Nov 6, 2007, 08:31 AM
I would love a tablet Mac -- if only to be able to turn my screen around and show the person sitting across from me what's on my screen!

Marx55
Nov 6, 2007, 08:31 AM
"a PDA but would carry a form factor about "1.5 times the size of the current iPhone" which we could see as early as January at Macworld San Francisco 2008".

Yes, PLEASE!!! With Intel Silverthorne chip. The full Mac OS X on your hand. Wireless. We need tons for our University!

luminosity
Nov 6, 2007, 08:31 AM
Good lord, this again?

I wish it would just go away.

macfan881
Nov 6, 2007, 08:33 AM
this sounds good and all i just hope this isnt gonna turn out like all the 1000 report rumors for the iphone again...

CBJammin103
Nov 6, 2007, 08:34 AM
I'm not entirely convinced of the usefulness of a device 1.5x the size of the iPhone... A nice MBP + iPhone seems like a vastly more effective combination. But the news post says it won't be something similar to past rumored designs, so we'll see...

Although a tablet Mac wouldn't be a bad thing, there are other things I'd personally rather see Apple pursuing. Seems to me that a tablet Mac is going to be more expensive and less durable than a good MBP. Then again, for those who specifically need a tablet, it will be a good option, I suppose.

Multitouch would be a MUST, in my opinion.

impierced
Nov 6, 2007, 08:36 AM
what would be the benefit of a tablet mac. i know the idea sounds cool and it (as is apple fashion) would look awesome, but what would one actually do with a tablet? just be able to draw/take handwritten notes vs. only type? isn't that why more and more college students are taking laptops to school - so they don't have to take handwriting notes?

maybe i'm off on practicality, but i'm just not seeing it . . .

if you want compact, bring on the 12" MBP!!!

I couldn't have said it better. Give me my 12" laptop back!!!

A tablet would be great for presentations and an initial wow factor. However, that's about it.

koobcamuk
Nov 6, 2007, 08:38 AM
Multitouch would be a MUST, in my opinion.

Of course it'll have multitouch.

I hope an ultraportable is released. If not, it'll be another two years or more until I upgrade this MacBook to a MacBook Pro (or whatever we have by then). The MacBook is doing just fine. An MBP would be a real treat to myself. I have an iPhone and it already takes away email on the MacBook (whilst out and about).

I wouldn't use a tablet as a work tool - unless Apple design something truly amazing... ;)

thies
Nov 6, 2007, 08:41 AM
I always have trouble seeing the market for such a device.

:confused:

Spades
Nov 6, 2007, 08:43 AM
I hope we get some solid news on an ultra-portable Mac soon. The Asus Eee is hard to resist.

Macnoviz
Nov 6, 2007, 08:43 AM
The tablet, dubbed "powerbook" will feature a G5 processor:D

r-sparks
Nov 6, 2007, 08:47 AM
There's already a tablet Mac. It's called the iPhone. There's also the iPod touch.

Tablets have been something of a failure. There are a very small niches where they make sense (warehousing, hospitals) but none of these fall into Apple's typical use profiles. Everything Apple has done over the last 10 years has focussed on the multimedia-enabled home user.

Bear in mind that Nokia has recently ADDED a keyboard to its latest small Internet tablet (the N810). So Internet tablets have had their five minutes to make their claim to fame, and are now evolving away from the original tablet concept into more of a hybrid device.

Additionally, knowing Apple as we do, I don't see what they could bring to tablets to make them better. Apple focus on "just works" simplicity. What could they possibly add to the tablet concept to enable this? The concept is fundamentally flawed for most users.

Yateball
Nov 6, 2007, 08:47 AM
I don't care how little money I have... I'd be getting this. There'd be no debate at all.

I hope the rumours are actually true this time!

chicagostars
Nov 6, 2007, 08:48 AM
Good lord, this again?

I wish it would just go away.

Was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it. :)

January has the potential to be fun and exciting, but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Lonon
Nov 6, 2007, 08:52 AM
I think when we hear so much noise about a rumor like we did from 2004 to early 2007 with the iPhone, something is going on there.

And besides, Jobs himself admited that Apple was working on a tablet Mac. Then he rejected because people don't want to handwrite all their emails.

This made me think when the iPhone was introduced and some site mencioted that Jobs didn't like the early prototypes. Now, translate that to the present with the MacTablet.

What if the model that Jobs rejected was an early prototype?
We know the iPhone is great. With that technology, AND a regular keyoboard, touchpad or some other input device like the ones we've been seeing here in the form of patents, maybe the idea of a MacTablet doesn't sound rare anymore.

Just a tought.

r-sparks
Nov 6, 2007, 08:52 AM
I hope we get some solid news on an ultra-portable Mac soon. The Asus Eee is hard to resist.

I've got an Eee and would warn others away from purchasing them unless they know what they're getting themselves into. If you want an ultraportable internet device then buy one. For checking email on the move, or browsing the web in coffee shops, it's ideal. Even working on the move is possible.

If you want a full computer in a small form factor then it's not for you. The OS is ugly, the keyboard will give you hand cramp, and the screen is too small to be useful. It's not a "full time" computer. It's just for part-time use. Some Eee users will probably disagree but, frankly, going back to my Macbook after using the Eee feels like pure luxury.

feakbeak
Nov 6, 2007, 08:53 AM
"a PDA but would carry a form factor about "1.5 times the size of the current iPhone" which we could see as early as January at Macworld San Francisco 2008".

Yes, PLEASE!!! With Intel Silverthorne chip. The full Mac OS X on your hand. Wireless. We need tons for our University!
Yeah, as soon as I read 1.5x the size of the iPhone, I thought "Hey, that would be about the size needed for Intel's upcoming Menlow/Silverthorne platform." :)

It would be much more comparable to a desktop in terms of power and performance than anything we've seen in the mobile/PDA market so far.

Some info on Menlow/Silvertorne, coverage from Intel's IDF - http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3103

FJ218700
Nov 6, 2007, 08:57 AM
this might make me finally switch to intel

diehardmacfan
Nov 6, 2007, 08:57 AM
this would be great for college.

i hope that there would be a keyboard built in, and i hope its not as expensive as a macbook.

SciTeach
Nov 6, 2007, 08:58 AM
Ah...the Mac tablet rumor has once again crawled back out to the surface. I'm wondering if :apple: is more in the design of something for their monitors or if they are actually going to build the tablet. I see a market for it but not exactly for everyone. I think the one thing that has to be taken into account is the size. Not to sound like a fairy tale, but it can't be too big or too small (iPhone)...it has to be just right. (BTW: I'm not saying the iPhone is too small, especially for what it does; I'm saying if they really develop a tablet that acts like a computer, it will have to be bigger).

In any case, touch screen technology is coming to the masses.:cool:

Let the Newtons rise again!:D

lofight
Nov 6, 2007, 08:59 AM
that would be VERY nice, but i don't think this is true.

gkarris
Nov 6, 2007, 09:04 AM
Makes perfect sense.

Technology has finally caught up and the iPod Touch and iPhones are a success.

I had one of those Compaq TabletPC's. It was okay, but slow and my handwriting is horrible so I had to use the on-screen keyboard. The special stylus you needed made it cumbersom and the Windows Tablet GUI blows...

I love my iPhone. If they come out with a Mac OS X Touch Tablet, I'm getting one to replace my iBook... :D

Sandfleaz
Nov 6, 2007, 09:08 AM
I would love to see what Apple could do with a tablet !
.

moosecat
Nov 6, 2007, 09:12 AM
The device I would buy in a second would be have the form factor of an iPhone, but with a 6 or 7 inch screen. Hopefully, overall thickness would be very close to the iPhone's. It would a light version of OSX with instant-on capability. 8GB or so of flash memory; maybe a hard drive option.

I would use it as a (i) PDA (assuming the inclusion of versions of iCal, Address Book, Mail, etc.); (ii) internet surfing device/Blackberry (when near WiFi); and (iii) media player. It would replace my iPod and my paper calendar. Maybe -- just maybe -- it could be a phone too (by using a Bluetooth headset).

Tons of bonus points if it runs Yojimbo.

quackattack
Nov 6, 2007, 09:17 AM
The tablet, dubbed "powerbook" will feature a G5 processor:D

Beat me to it... you think it will come out next Tuesday??

This is all starting to feel very familiar.

crackermac
Nov 6, 2007, 09:17 AM
Awesome if I can fit it in my pocket. If not, I might as well carry a 12"

tomoisyourgod
Nov 6, 2007, 09:21 AM
It won't happen.

Next...

svndmvn
Nov 6, 2007, 09:23 AM
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ModBook
I thought :apple: introduced it a year ago, at the last MacWorld Expo..or maybe some other company??I'm pretty sorry if someone else stated this earlier..
anyway, I understand someone would be waiting for a 1.5x size iPhone,I am personally waiting for MacBooks to have LEDs,talkin about 13.3",I have already owned a MacBook so it would be nice to have something slightly different from the external hardware point of view, could it become lighter without eliminating the keyboard? I'm afraid a tablet would be less useful and more expensive...less of a consumer product maybe?
cheerz

gr8ful
Nov 6, 2007, 09:23 AM
I put my money on Apple releasing a tablet in the next year. 1.5 times the size of the iPhone seems small and too close in size. I would bet on something a bit smaller than 1/2 sheet of paper.

A lot of the latest OS features tell me that Apple is prepping to release a tablet. - Finder and Quicklook are perfectly suited for 'finger' navigation of your file system.
- Back to My Mac is an excellent feature when you are out and about with a thin tablet that doesn't have the storage capacity to carry around all your files.
- Sync Dashboard Widgets makes more sense to me if I am working with a portable Mac tablet than syncing to a desktop or laptop Mac
- Stacks nice feature to keep my desktop clear of clutter, even more important on a 7 inch screen (tablet?)

I know this tablet rumor has been out there a while, but every other tablet struggles because a GUI designed for a mouse and keyboard combinations just doesn't work well on a tablet. Apple with their multi-touch interface is now in a position to produce a tablet where the GUI interface doesn't get in the way and can actually be enjoyable to use --- iPhone?

Will Apple produce a tablet? Yes, the only question is when and what size.

meagain
Nov 6, 2007, 09:23 AM
I'd love this if it came in a decent sized screen like 10-12". Would be so incredibly light, easy to carry, mountable on stands, portable. I'd buy this over a full laptop for sure. IDK about a 7". Depends on the price. :)

This is a no-brainer IMO. Just make a big version of the iPhone. Bet it'll happen very soon.

shamino
Nov 6, 2007, 09:26 AM
I'm sure Apple is working on tablet tech, but I don't have any faith in these kinds of rumors. They've been circulating for far too long. I'll believe it when I see it.

From where I sit, there are two key problems. One is that virtual keyboards are annoying to type on, even if they're large, due to a total lack of tactile feedback. Apple's recent patent filing (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/26/apple_patent_hints_at_tactile_multi_touch_keyboard.html) shows that they're working on a possible solution to the problem, but it's anybody's guess how long it will be before this solution can become practical (assuming it ever does.)

The second issue is that traditional tablet designs are unnatural for most people. Pens and styli can get lost or broken, and a lot of people (myself included) can type much faster than they can write. A good tablet, IMO, would have to be multi-touch, but with the ability to also use a stylus (since handwriting with your fingers would be extremely unnatural.) This can definitely be done, but it will require designing a whole new UI metaphor for the OS. And (hopefully) there will be a way to let existing apps simply pick up on the most important multi-touch UI features without needing to be updated by the developer.

These aren't insurmountable problems, but they are very hard. I don't think Apple would ship a new Mac system running a potentially-app-breaking OS release, without letting developers test against it first (possibly via a WWDC announcement.)

Spades
Nov 6, 2007, 09:31 AM
I've got an Eee and would warn others away from purchasing them unless they know what they're getting themselves into. If you want an ultraportable internet device then buy one. For checking email on the move, or browsing the web in coffee shops, it's ideal. Even working on the move is possible.

If you want a full computer in a small form factor then it's not for you. The OS is ugly, the keyboard will give you hand cramp, and the screen is too small to be useful. It's not a "full time" computer. It's just for part-time use. Some Eee users will probably disagree but, frankly, going back to my Macbook after using the Eee feels like pure luxury.

I know the Asus Eee is underpowered and not a good full-time computer. That's exactly what I want. Not exactly underpowered, but it doesn't need to be full powered either. Basically what I want is a satellite machine. Something I would use only when I don't have my desktop in front of me. And OS X is the ideal OS for a machine like that. Why? Back to my Mac. I don't need lots of storage or lots of applications or power. I have my iDisk and Back to my Mac for that. All I need is network access and enough power to not be frustrated. (Dual core would be really really good, even if it's the slowest dual core out there.) The chance to run OS X on an ultra-portable is the only reason I'm going to hold out for a few more months on buying anything.

i0Nic
Nov 6, 2007, 09:34 AM
I dunno I just can't see this being useful. Surely you'd have to pair up a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to get any real work done, and what about propping up the device so you can easily read the screen (I guess it could have a kick stand).

For a college student, wouldn't it be easier to stick with a small laptop like the macbook? If it had handwriting recognition, it could be useful in lectures I suppose, but then you'd have to pull out a keyboard/mouse to write a paper which becomes cumbersome.

Personally I'm hoping Apple makes a sub-notebook, 12 or 13 inch widescreen in a smaller footprint than the macbook, external optical drive, 64gb SSD, much lighter and thinner than a macbook. Now imagine if this could be converted into a tablet by swivelling the screen, you'd have a great multitouch input system too. Mmmm I'd pay a lot for that.

sayagain
Nov 6, 2007, 09:34 AM
Apple - I want an UltraPortable leopard worthy machine, please

No intensive graphics... just a net-worker I am

how much, $3k? sold!

darwen
Nov 6, 2007, 09:36 AM
I always have trouble seeing the market for such a device.

:confused:

Touch Screens are the direction we are heading. A Touch Screen portable would be the first step to a touch screen desktop.

slackpacker
Nov 6, 2007, 09:41 AM
Honesty do we really need this....?

I'm really sick of the whole tablet Mac thing

comebackdwn
Nov 6, 2007, 09:43 AM
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ModBook
I thought :apple: introduced it a year ago, at the last MacWorld Expo..or maybe some other company??


i was wondering this same thing.

Arcus
Nov 6, 2007, 09:46 AM
Make it so I can shove an iPhone into it to get inet access everywhere and Ill buy that and another iPhone.

FJ218700
Nov 6, 2007, 09:46 AM
i hope that there would be a keyboard built in, and i hope its not as expensive as a macbook.

keep hoping :cool:

milo2020
Nov 6, 2007, 09:47 AM
...and I suppose the G5 powerbook is out on Tuesday?

fluidedge
Nov 6, 2007, 10:03 AM
tablets won't happen.

Jobs has always said that people want to use a keyboard and a mouse/similar input device.

Imagine typing out a document on a touch screen. I'm not sure the technology is there yet to provide a decent solution to a keyboardless computer.

from 2003: http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/06/05.9.shtml

M [Walt Mossberg]: A lot of people think given the success you've had with portable devices, you should be making a tablet or a PDA.
J [Steve Jobs]: There are no plans to make a tablet. It turns out people want keyboards. When Apple first started out, "People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this." "We look at the tablet and we think it's going to fail." Tablets appeal to rich guys with plenty of other PCs and devices already. "And people accuse us of niche markets." I get a lot of pressure to do a PDA. What people really seem to want to do with these is get the data out . We believe cell phones are going to carry this information. We didn't think we'd do well in the cell phone business. What we've done instead is we've written what we think is some of the best software in the world to start syncing information between devices. We believe that mode is what cell phones need to get to. We chose to do the iPod instead of a PDA.

mikeinternet
Nov 6, 2007, 10:03 AM
Rumors of a Tablet Mac hit an all time high in 2003 when multiple sources pointed to the existence of a Tablet device from Apple, but for whatever reason was never released.

it was released, they called it the iphone

TheSpecialist
Nov 6, 2007, 10:04 AM
I don't believe a thing of it, I don't think Apple will come with something like a tablet. Way too big.

shigzeo
Nov 6, 2007, 10:07 AM
i hate to give in to doubt but... a tablet computer would be too much to love. however, the stage is indeed set with the iphone and itouch which are low-level tablets or pda. for the size, 1.5 phone woudl make room for more storage etc at a wonderful size. typical tablets have been too big and without keyboard to make them practical.

i love my macbook pro and ipod touch but would love something a little more practical in between. i cannot wait. cheers.

Darrin Bell
Nov 6, 2007, 10:11 AM
I always have trouble seeing the market for such a device.

:confused:
I don't. It wouldn't be the size of the i-Pod or iPhone markets, probably, but it would be profitable. Every artist, art house and studio on the waiting list for Cintiqs and Modbooks could tell you that. I waited months for my Cintiq and I'd sell a year of my life (preferably year 97) for an iTablet.

I'm not sure what other markets would be interested, but I know the artist market, at least, has been waiting years for this.

plumbingandtech
Nov 6, 2007, 10:12 AM
Sounds good.

More iphone then mac or more mac then iphone tablet....

?:confused:

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 10:13 AM
I can see a market for a whole family of these sorts of devices. That is if Apple gets it right.


The unit needs to be able to display HD video. That is 720 x 480 and it needs to do so with reasonably good performance.
The unit needs to be able to fit into ones pocket. This is at least in one variant. So I could see a pocket sized device and a another the size of a piece of paper.
The unit should maintain binary capability with the iPhone/Touch machines. This means a ARM processor. Frankly this is a good thing as you can most likely get a SMP machine based on ARM processors that simply can't be done with Intel in a reasonable power profile.
The device should support multiple channels of RF connectivity. This includes WiFi, Bluetooth and cell at the minimal.
The unit must not be carrier locked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is an absolute requirement. If the thing is carrier locked you might as well carry around a stone tablet.
Apple has been a the market leader here but it is worth highlighting. Secondary storage is a a must and at the minimal the unit needs to come with 32 GB of built in storage with the provision for expansion beyond that.
No Cameras built in. Or at least make them optional.
A full Bluetooth stack must be exposed to applications developers.
The device needs a built in high level scripting environment. Something beyond bash or python and tailored for the features of the machine. I wold accept python if it is fully supplied with a set of libraries.


Now this is a short list and if I took more time to think about it I could add other things. What stands out is the need for high performance as a relatively low power point. This is why I think the advent of multi core ARM processors will make this thing a win. No matter what Intel does they won't be able to compete against an ARM processor with its limited number of transistors.

The other important thing is the element of portability. The device needs to be pocketabble and fulfill multiple roles. Thus the need to function as a cell and as a media player. I'd be perfectly happy to see Apple sell these as an enhancement to the iPhone/Touch family instead of a new product line. The touch is real close to what one needs now. It is just a matter of being able to install the right software and having the right I/O mix.

Now for those of you that don't think their is a market for such devices, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have a laptop at the moment, because frankly I don't have an overwhelming demand for applications on the road. The exceptions being access to E-Mail and the net. Combine E-Mail, net access and the ability to add a few apps of your choosing and you have an ideal device for somebody on the road. It is what makes iPhone such a hot seller. The goal is not to replace laptops but rather to to supply somebody with a tool that is a better choice for on the go usage.

Dave

Vulpinemac
Nov 6, 2007, 10:17 AM
My personal opinion is that I'd like a tablet Mac about the size of a conventional hardback book. While the display may be a bit small for the kind of computing some may desire, the ability to use it as both an ebook reader as well as a comfortably-sized easy to use PDA would be superior. The drawback with most PDAs has been their small size and limited useability as anything more than a simple note-taker and now, for some, phone. On the other hand, something big enough to actually write/type on that doesn't force using txt messaging (I mn, hoo lks tryng 2 dcfr txt anwy?) and read a novel without having to hold the thing up to your nose and scroll every few lines would be a major convenience!

I hope it's true, and I hope they size it to be a true innovation rather than a repackaging of someone else's product.

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 10:25 AM
what would be the benefit of a tablet mac. i know the idea sounds cool and it (as is apple fashion) would look awesome, but what would one actually do with a tablet? just be able to draw/take handwritten notes vs. only type? isn't that why more and more college students are taking laptops to school - so they don't have to take handwriting notes?

maybe i'm off on practicality, but i'm just not seeing it . . .

if you want compact, bring on the 12" MBP!!!

If you can type on an iPhone, why wouldn't you be able to type on a Tablet? A tablet would undoubtedly have a text-field-prompted keyboard, just like the iPhone/Touch. The notion of writing on a tablet is as ancient as a fossil.

The tablet, dubbed "powerbook" will feature a G5 processor:D

I must applaud you; that is the most creative way I've seen a Powerbook G5 comment presented.

There's already a tablet Mac. It's called the iPhone. There's also the iPod touch.

Tablets have been something of a failure. There are a very small niches where they make sense (warehousing, hospitals) but none of these fall into Apple's typical use profiles. Everything Apple has done over the last 10 years has focussed on the multimedia-enabled home user.

Many have said as recently as a few month ago that PDAs were a failure. Now there's an iPhone-generation of products being release by all sorts of manufacturers, all of which are built in the PDA's image. We'll see if the PDA is actually a failure.

Likewise, perhaps the tablets of yore were just trying to be something that just could not have been implemented well-enough given the technology of the day. Now we'll see a resurgence of Tablet PCs since we have a greater capacity for creating powerful portable systems.

Just because it was a failure doesn't mean it will always be.

This is a no-brainer IMO. Just make a big version of the iPhone. Bet it'll happen very soon.

No, no. It can't just be a bigger version of the iPhone. what advantage would a big-screened iPhone have? Bigger album art? Bigger video playback? Bigger photo browsing? yes, yes, and yes, but that doesn't introduce a higher level of productivity - just the same iPhone functions.

The iPhone's touch OS is just a fledgling. It can do a few remarkable things, yes, but wouldn't cut it in a full-scale implementation. Apple needs to (an undoubtedly is working on this) grow the touch OS, piece by piece until it IS something that will function well on a device larger than a PDA. A future Apple tablet is one such implementation where this advancing OS will be critical.

- Back to My Mac is an excellent feature when you are out and about with a thin tablet that doesn't have the storage capacity to carry around all your files.

[...]

I know this tablet rumor has been out there a while, but every other tablet struggles because a GUI designed for a mouse and keyboard combinations just doesn't work well on a tablet.


"Back to my Mac" will undoubtedly become instrumental in future computing. We will eventually reach a point where we will have once computer and all our devices will be terminals that simply log in to that master system.

Thank you for mentioning the "Keyboard and mouse" thing. Pundits don't get that. "what has changed?" they ask. The OS.

-Clive

shigzeo
Nov 6, 2007, 10:26 AM
...and I suppose the G5 powerbook is out on Tuesday?

when first i read this forums (c 2003) it would be funny but now... it is a little old news. yet, i can still imagine a brighter future with powerbook g5

morissm
Nov 6, 2007, 10:27 AM
I very much doubt Apple will bother with the Intel architecture. It draws too much power and is too big. It seems obvious to me that they'll produce something much better. Basically a sub pound PDA with a large screen, low price tag and the functionality of a laptop.

Frankly, this should be obvious to everyone. All you have to do is connect the dots.

Dot 1: MacOS X has been ported to the Arm platform.
Dot 2: Most Apple and third party applications could probably be ported to the device. Universal Binaries allowed Apple to successfully deploy its applications on 2 platforms seamlessly. Why not 3?
Dot 3: Mac apps such as iLife are already designed for single button use (read touch screen) interfacing. All Apple needs to do is tweak the size of some elements of the interface and allow seamless integration with the touch keyboard.
Dot 4: Resolution independance (already in OS X) would allow better magnification for such a platform
Dot 5: Arm is powerful enough to run a modern browser. If it can run a browser, it can run an office suite, iPhoto, iTunes, third party applications, etc.
Dot 6: The Arm architecture is much more compact than i386. Look at the size of the iPod touch. Given that the touch is only 0.2 pounds, a stretched iPod touch with a 8" display (enough for 1024 pixels) would weigh less than a pound and be no thicker. Smaller devices could also be produced.
Dot 7: The Arm architecture is much more power efficient than the Intel architecture: the touch can play video much longer than the average laptop despite its tiny battery.
Dot 8: If an iPod touch can be sold for profit at 400$, an equivalent with a larger screen must be under 800$, I would even guess around 650-700$.

If such a device were to be marketed by Apple, I'd ditch my laptop for it in a second and I bet I wouldn't be the only one. I hate how bulky current laptops are. They need a surface to be operated comfortably, boot slowly and are a pain to carry.

All I'd ask for is a small foldable keyboard for extended typing sessions to be offered as an accessory

zombitronic
Nov 6, 2007, 10:29 AM
Here are some mock-ups of the "iPad Touch." (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11139/12163/Apple-tablet-ipad-touch-concept.phtml)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-3868309ee9ea540442e81dd72cace4a7.jpg (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-3868309ee9ea540442e81dd72cace4a7.jpg)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-5abf51a619482858e0e8d9af8d3e8a37.jpg (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-5abf51a619482858e0e8d9af8d3e8a37.jpg)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-30d9d0a3be14660f832f8f0addbb5a1a.png (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-30d9d0a3be14660f832f8f0addbb5a1a.png)

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 10:38 AM
I dunno I just can't see this being useful. Surely you'd have to pair up a bluetooth keyboard and mouse to get any real work done, and what about propping up the device so you can easily read the screen (I guess it could have a kick stand).

Yes a fully supported Blutooth stack is a must. It simply gives you options you wouldn't have for data entry and other usages. That doesn't imply a mouse though. As to keyboard less input the Newton demonstrated that hand writing recognition is possible if not reliable. I suspect that Apple may make advances to up the quality of handwriting recognition.

As to the screen, technology continues to move forward. A screen with a much wider viewing angle is a possibility.


For a college student, wouldn't it be easier to stick with a small laptop like the macbook? If it had handwriting recognition, it could be useful in lectures I suppose, but then you'd have to pull out a keyboard/mouse to write a paper which becomes cumbersome.

The ideal app here is a audio recorder, that can sync in real time, hand written notes. Instead of thinking about how things where done yesterday think about how they could be done in the future. Apple is good at innovation, there are many possible paths of development that could result in a better solution.


Personally I'm hoping Apple makes a sub-notebook, 12 or 13 inch widescreen in a smaller footprint than the macbook, external optical drive, 64gb SSD, much lighter and thinner than a macbook.

You mean a tablet right? That is what you described.

The problem as I see it is that you can only go so thin before it is impractical to have the common two piece approach. That is a screen that tilts up to reveal the keyboard. The very thing that makes most keyboards practical for touch typist implies some thickness in the keyboard.

In any event as mentioned previously Apple really needs a family of these sorts of devices. One to fit into a large pocket another sized similarly to a piece of paper.

I like your idea with respect to SSD storage but I'd also want it to be expandable. This either through new technology or compact flash.


Now imagine if this could be converted into a tablet by swivelling the screen, you'd have a great multitouch input system too. Mmmm I'd pay a lot for that.

The last thing I'd want is an unreliable swiveling tablet / laptop kludge. I'm hoping that Apple can produce a machine that is nearly bullet proof. The biggest weak link in such a device would be the screen, I'm not sure what the best approach here would be. Maybe a hybrid plastic/glass laminate.

Dave

MarlboroLite
Nov 6, 2007, 10:44 AM
I really don't see a market for this. Why do you want a touch screen tablet? First of all people are not handwriting anymore because keyboards have made writing so much faster--going back to handwriting is just ridiculous, it's a step backwards. Touch screen is arguably even more stupid for a pc. The mouse and click make things fly much faster than having to have your hand constantly move on the screen going back and forth and opening and zooming--it's great for an iPhone sized device but for a PC?

I think tablet PCs are pretty stupid and I fail to see people who NEED tablet PCs for anything that a regular sub-notebook can't do faster or more efficiently. Coming out with one would be a novelty product with a few people with cash to burn to buy but not for much else. Besides...if Apple starts coming out with products galore it might be repeating the mistakes of the past--they have kept things relatively simple with their product lines, and if they go off the deep end providing a million different things, a lot of those things will be big money losers for them. I simply don't see a market for a tablet PC that can make it a successful product with profits for Apple.

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 10:45 AM
I can see a market for a whole family of these sorts of devices. That is if Apple gets it right.


The unit needs to be able to display HD video. That is 720 x 480 and it needs to do so with reasonably good performance.
The unit needs to be able to fit into ones pocket. This is at least in one variant. So I could see a pocket sized device and a another the size of a piece of paper.
The unit should maintain binary capability with the iPhone/Touch machines. This means a ARM processor. Frankly this is a good thing as you can most likely get a SMP machine based on ARM processors that simply can't be done with Intel in a reasonable power profile.
The device should support multiple channels of RF connectivity. This includes WiFi, Bluetooth and cell at the minimal.
The unit must not be carrier locked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is an absolute requirement. If the thing is carrier locked you might as well carry around a stone tablet.
Apple has been a the market leader here but it is worth highlighting. Secondary storage is a a must and at the minimal the unit needs to come with 32 GB of built in storage with the provision for expansion beyond that.
No Cameras built in. Or at least make them optional.
A full Bluetooth stack must be exposed to applications developers.
The device needs a built in high level scripting environment. Something beyond bash or python and tailored for the features of the machine. I wold accept python if it is fully supplied with a set of libraries.


A 720 x 480 device with reasonable playback quality, 32GB SSD (with expandability) AND fits in your pocket? You're kidding, right? I'd like a Xeon MacBookPro with a 750GB HDD, but it's just not possible.

Also, this thing is a phone?? Nay, nay, nay. If it has ANYTHING to do with cell-carriers, it'll be EDGE (or comparable) for data and if it has ANYTHING to do with that, it'll be expensive to use, no matter what carrier you choose. I forsee wi-fi only (or Wi-Max (or comparable) in the future).

Now this is a short list and if I took more time to think about it I could add other things. What stands out is the need for high performance as a relatively low power point. This is why I think the advent of multi core ARM processors will make this thing a win. No matter what Intel does they won't be able to compete against an ARM processor with its limited number of transistors.

High performance at a low power level... This does not exist... Even with a multi-core ARM.

The other important thing is the element of portability. The device needs to be pocketabble and fulfill multiple roles. Thus the need to function as a cell and as a media player. I'd be perfectly happy to see Apple sell these as an enhancement to the iPhone/Touch family instead of a new product line. The touch is real close to what one needs now. It is just a matter of being able to install the right software and having the right I/O mix.

The existing iPhone (to some) is barely "pocketable" How do you expect a higher-powered device to be any smaller? And even if the device is the same size, how do you intend on cramming 720 x 480 into it? That doesn't even exist.

Now for those of you that don't think their is a market for such devices, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have a laptop at the moment, because frankly I don't have an overwhelming demand for applications on the road. The exceptions being access to E-Mail and the net. Combine E-Mail, net access and the ability to add a few apps of your choosing and you have an ideal device for somebody on the road. It is what makes iPhone such a hot seller. The goal is not to replace laptops but rather to to supply somebody with a tool that is a better choice for on the go usage.

Of course there's a market for a small hand-held HD, 32GB (expanable) device that can do EVERYTHING. We just don't have the technology to make it yet... not for another 5 years. But by then, you'll be wanting something even more grandiose that can't exist either. Get a grip on reality.

Dave

Dave, are you a newbie? No? How do you not know these things after almost 400 posts?

-Clive

Spades
Nov 6, 2007, 10:51 AM
I can see a market for a whole family of these sorts of devices. That is if Apple gets it right.

...


Using ARM processors would not be a bad idea, especially if they could put in dual processors or dual core without a significant decrease in battery life. But on the software side, why settle for anything less than the full desktop OS X? For that matter why a built-in modem. Include a PCMCIA slot (or whatever it was replaced with, I forget the name) so people can use the modem of any carrier. The iPhone is already a special purpose tablet. Anything new should be general purpose. And would likely not be pocketable.

Jdot
Nov 6, 2007, 10:58 AM
what would be the benefit of a tablet mac. i know the idea sounds cool and it (as is apple fashion) would look awesome, but what would one actually do with a tablet? just be able to draw/take handwritten notes vs. only type? isn't that why more and more college students are taking laptops to school - so they don't have to take handwriting notes?

maybe i'm off on practicality, but i'm just not seeing it . . .

if you want compact, bring on the 12" MBP!!!

How about the ability to perform photo touch ups immediately like no other device could before?

Using ARM processors would not be a bad idea, especially if they could put in dual processors or dual core without a significant decrease in battery life. But on the software side, why settle for anything less than the full desktop OS X? For that matter why a built-in modem. Include a PCMCIA slot (or whatever it was replaced with, I forget the name) so people can use the modem of any carrier. The iPhone is already a special purpose tablet. Anything new should be general purpose. And would likely not be pocketable.

Dual core processors actually use less power period if you look at power requirements even a quad core uses even less power then a dual core. So multi-core processors would be ideal for this type of device one can only hope for 8+hours of usage =D

sfoalex
Nov 6, 2007, 11:00 AM
Sounds like they might be very interested in what Asus has done with the recently released Asus Eee PC, which is just 2 lbs, runs a basic Xandros Linux, and has a 7" screen as well as WiFi 802.11b and g.

That device keeps selling out of every retailer, and it getting rave reviews. I bought one, and it's the perfect ultra mobile device. Apple likely sees that the manufacturing cost is now low enough, and the os and touch screen developed already can be applied thus lowering the development cost of such a device.

Asus has proven they have the experience to make such a device.

Alex

surferuke
Nov 6, 2007, 11:01 AM
how about an 32GB iphone instead......

Westside guy
Nov 6, 2007, 11:02 AM
Hmm, size factor makes it sound just like that Origami PC Microsoft launched, what, a year ago? Yeah, we've all seen how that's taken the world by storm.

It's a terrible form factor - I don't care if it's got OS X on it or Windows. It's too big and heavy for your pocket, and too small to do much that's really useful on it. The iPhone/Touch are likely as good as can be for the size, but even there you're dealing with significant tradeoffs; they're light and fit in a user's pocket, though, so people accept it.

Sweetfeld28
Nov 6, 2007, 11:05 AM
Here are some mock-ups of the "iPad Touch." (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11139/12163/Apple-tablet-ipad-touch-concept.phtml)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-3868309ee9ea540442e81dd72cace4a7.jpg (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-3868309ee9ea540442e81dd72cace4a7.jpg)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-5abf51a619482858e0e8d9af8d3e8a37.jpg (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-5abf51a619482858e0e8d9af8d3e8a37.jpg)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-30d9d0a3be14660f832f8f0addbb5a1a.png (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-30d9d0a3be14660f832f8f0addbb5a1a.png)


If this would ever come out it better have some killer battery life. I just can't see it ever happening though, how long would a tablet work with the display thats is the majority of the time on?

My iPod 5G gets good battery life, but like Jobs said about a 3G iPhone, the battery life is whats holding it back. What would make this any different? Especially if that display is 1.5 times bigger than the iPhone; it would suck the battery dry in no time.

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 11:10 AM
If you can type on an iPhone, why wouldn't you be able to type on a Tablet? A tablet would undoubtedly have a text-field-prompted keyboard, just like the iPhone/Touch. The notion of writing on a tablet is as ancient as a fossil.

Exactly! I think the point people mis is that this is a different market from that of a laptop. In any event Apple is free to innovate with multiple technologies, getting text input shouldn't be a problem.

I must applaud you; that is the most creative way I've seen a Powerbook G5 comment presented.

I'd actually rather just see all discussion PPC related die.

Many have said as recently as a few month ago that PDAs were a failure. Now there's an iPhone-generation of products being release by all sorts of manufacturers, all of which are built in the PDA's image. We'll see if the PDA is actually a failure.

The problem is that we have narrowed minded people that can't see or maybe tolerate mobile devices morphing into modern products. In a nut shell if you carry a personal computing device on your person, be it a traditional PDA or a Touch or a IPhone, you have a PDA.

Likewise, perhaps the tablets of yore were just trying to be something that just could not have been implemented well-enough given the technology of the day. Now we'll see a resurgence of Tablet PCs since we have a greater capacity for creating powerful portable systems.

This is a real issue. In part one of hardware technology and one of software. The software issues result from many tablets being MS based. That is the software stack really wasn't suitable to the platform.

Just because it was a failure doesn't mean it will always be.

This has been proven again and again through out history.

No, no. It can't just be a bigger version of the iPhone. what advantage would a big-screened iPhone have? Bigger album art? Bigger video playback? Bigger photo browsing? yes, yes, and yes, but that doesn't introduce a higher level of productivity - just the same iPhone functions.

Well here we can disagree. For many of us a bigger screen / larger Iphone would be a natural. Frankly it is just a bit to small for a large person. Further a better screen could go a long way to making the iPhone even better. Just holding an Touch next to an iPhone highlights how much minor changes in size and resolution can impact usability.

Given that description I can see a device with even larger, but pocketable, sized iPhone functionality as being very hot on the market. The goal here is to have a full HD screen in your pocket along with a cell capability. The idea is that you don't hold the phone up to your head to make calls but rather make use of wired or bluetooth buds. You get the benefits of a cell along with an ideal media player and PDA.

So while it might go against the common marketing wizardry a larger screen iPhone is something that needs to be considered. In fact I'd suggest that all of these devices need some sort of cell capacity. Even an 8x10 tablet.


The iPhone's touch OS is just a fledgling. It can do a few remarkable things, yes, but wouldn't cut it in a full-scale implementation. Apple needs to (an undoubtedly is working on this) grow the touch OS, piece by piece until it IS something that will function well on a device larger than a PDA. A future Apple tablet is one such implementation where this advancing OS will be critical.

You got that right. It should be obvious to everybody that touch is not a finished product. I suspect that part of the reason that the SDK is still a ways off is that it is a moving target. Apple wants a baseline that is stable to start with.



"Back to my Mac" will undoubtedly become instrumental in future computing. We will eventually reach a point where we will have once computer and all our devices will be terminals that simply log in to that master system.

Interesting maybe. What Apple needs to understand though is that their devices will get used by people that have no interest in a Mac. That means coming clean with the interface to some of the features on these devices.

That is one reason why I want to see them get disk mode access down.


Thank you for mentioning the "Keyboard and mouse" thing. Pundits don't get that. "what has changed?" they ask. The OS.

I've spent some time looking at both Touch and iPhone in the local Apple store. They are pretty amazing if you ask me. What many people can't seem to grasp is the innovation in these devices. That and it is just a beginning.

The problem is that I've resisted the temptation because it is obvious that Apple can deliver far better devices on this platform. The iPod Touch is very attractive to me now, but I can't deal with its lack of Bluetooth and other features. Features that by the way could slip into another device that is slightly larger.

-Clive
Dave

farmboy
Nov 6, 2007, 11:10 AM
I always have trouble seeing the market for such a device.

:confused:

Not saying it might not have a market, but I don't see exactly what need it fulfills that a laptop doesn't on one end, or an iPhone at the other end. I'm willing to be persuaded, but I haven't seen a cogent argument yet over the last few years.

And as far as showing your screen to the person sitting opposite you---pivot your laptop. No additional purchase necessary. And how often do you do THAT?

As far as multi-touch/typing and handwriting/drawing: doesn't the multi-touch technology as implemented by Apple restrict input to finger tips--no stylus/pen. There must be some technology hurdle to have both touch/type and write/draw on the same device.

elgruga
Nov 6, 2007, 11:15 AM
how about an 32GB iphone instead......

EXACTLY!

Thats what we really need - (so I can get all my music in the iphone) - and that will be here in January for sure.

The tablet - not a chance of this ever seeing the light of day.

Shtekeris
Nov 6, 2007, 11:16 AM
i just want to see what happens if such a thing falls out of your hand and .... breaks :D it's all one big screen so it should be quite a big mess

icecone
Nov 6, 2007, 11:22 AM
What's that thing in the photo?:confused:

gkarris
Nov 6, 2007, 11:24 AM
Here are some mock-ups of the "iPad Touch." (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11139/12163/Apple-tablet-ipad-touch-concept.phtml)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-3868309ee9ea540442e81dd72cace4a7.jpg (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-3868309ee9ea540442e81dd72cace4a7.jpg)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-5abf51a619482858e0e8d9af8d3e8a37.jpg (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-5abf51a619482858e0e8d9af8d3e8a37.jpg)

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/gallerythumbnailsmall.php/NEWS-11139-30d9d0a3be14660f832f8f0addbb5a1a.png (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/utilities/galleryview.php/NEWS-11139-30d9d0a3be14660f832f8f0addbb5a1a.png)


Now I'm drooling...

The Leopard's file Coverflow is touch friendly!

ChrisA
Nov 6, 2007, 11:25 AM
It could be true that Asus is helping Apple build a tablet but also true that Apple will decide not to sett a tablet. Maybe Asus is building about 20 tablets for Apple developers to use and for internal evaluation. How many cell phones did Apple have built and for how long before they finally had one for sale. I will believe the rumor when I here some factory in China got an order for a million large sized touch screens

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 11:28 AM
I really don't see a market for this. Why do you want a touch screen tablet? First of all people are not handwriting anymore because keyboards have made writing so much faster

yah sure!

-going back to handwriting is just ridiculous, it's a step backwards. Touch screen is arguably even more stupid for a pc. The mouse and click make things fly much faster than having to have your hand constantly move on the screen going back and forth and opening and zooming--it's great for an iPhone sized device but for a PC?

Apparently you don't understand the use cases for these devices. If this is the case you won't see a need for them.


I think tablet PCs are pretty stupid and I fail to see people who NEED tablet PCs for anything that a regular sub-notebook can't do faster or more efficiently.

Err that is the whole point a sub notebook can't do what we want to do with a tablet. Not even close because #1 I want it to fit in my pocket.

Coming out with one would be a novelty product with a few people with cash to burn to buy but not for much else.

This I disagree with totally. It is the lack of cash to burn that keeps me from buying any sort of laptop. A multi function tablet device that is slightly larger than a iPod Touch and priced accordingly would be ideal. The one thing that keeps the Touch and similar devices expensive is the Flash memory, as that changes the devices can beocme cheaper and more useful.

Besides...if Apple starts coming out with products galore it might be repeating the mistakes of the past--they have kept things relatively simple with their product lines, and if they go off the deep end providing a million different things, a lot of those things will be big money losers for them.

Like they are losing money on the Touch and iPhone. Well they may be because of production shortages but that is another issue.

I simply don't see a market for a tablet PC that can make it a successful product with profits for Apple.

Then sit down with your favorite caffeine enhanced software drink and take a look at the web. See what people are doing with their iPhones and Touch's. Even Apple admits that people are adding apps to their machines at a relatively high rate. Something like 10% of the market is risking their warranty to add apps to these devices. And that is with the limited ability to produce useful apps for the devices in the first place. Imagine what would happen if development gets supported.

Remember the devices are not strictly there to replace laptops. The want and desire is to provide a mobile platform that doesn't require a laptops strengths. We also want to avoid a laptops weaknesses.

Dave

Orng
Nov 6, 2007, 11:30 AM
Make it Wacom-enabled and about $1000 less than a Modbook, (http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook) and my wife will become a Switcher.

ChrisA
Nov 6, 2007, 11:33 AM
The unit should maintain binary capability with the iPhone/Touch machines. This means a ARM processor. Frankly this is a good thing as you can most likely get a SMP machine based on ARM processors that simply can't be done with Intel in a reasonable power profile.

Why? Do you have binary files that you need to move between the iPhone and the new tablet? If it is just an application then it could be universal. Or the install process could look at your device and get the correct binary for it. The best design could not tie you toa processor type but would allow changes in the future go un-noticed by most users

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 11:39 AM
Hope this "Helping Apple" is very late in the game and that we see this puppy and what it has to offer in Jan.

Where all those negative votes come from anyway???

fafner
Nov 6, 2007, 11:43 AM
I think that a iTablet must combine both multi touch and stylus, like a combination of a Wacom Cintiq and a iPhone.

I have for many years used a notebook (a physical one) great to jot down some sketches in meetings, some text etc and can also be used as a diary/logbook to remember who I have talked to, what we have decided.

Here is a scenario from my life: “I am an Engineer/designer so I like to draw ideas, which will evolve during time, start with a mind map (excellent on a iTablet) or a capture of a whiteboard. Or why not by connecting different iTablets (think bonjour services) into a large ‘virtual sketch board’, where we can interact with each others sketches. Then I refine the sketches, add annotations and weblinks. Go to my office, create a CAD model (on my desktop) sync the documents (meeting agenda, requirements, patent documents etc) to my iTablet and then present them at a meeting, easy to interact using the multi touch, zoom in, pan, annotate etc. At the meeting I get a lot of response, which is synced back to my desktop where I can continue to work.”

So why not a tablet where I can access all my documents, (I don’t mainly createthem on the iTablet), I can browse them with the multi touch like in Leopard cower-flow mode. I can also annotate onto them, and attach audio recordings.

Today several implementations of audio transcription exists that works pretty well, why not going around, speaking to create e-mails by using a Bluetooth headset.

I have seen many new programs such as Google earth, Gogle Maps, Sketchup etc perform very well (much better than with mouse/keyboard) on a multi touch implementation, so we have to redefine the user interface.

Combine the iTablet with a decent camera that can be used as a scanner with OCR capabilities.

So for me the iTablet would be the companion I use in meetings, traveling etc, and back at my office I bring up the traditional desktop with mouse and keyboard.

When I m out doing daytrips I seldom create new material, I revise and interact with documents and presentations already created. Then of course I surf the web, read and create emails, but I don’t write long books when I move around and travel. If I go away for more than one day, than I bring my laptop.

Peter T

slackpacker
Nov 6, 2007, 11:45 AM
Honestly -


Hows MicroSofts HTPC or Tablet PC Doing....

I see people with Cell Phones or Laptops.... I never see a stand alone iPaq or PocketPC anymore....

What I'm thinking this may be is a new iPod 7" wide screen rather than a newton like device.

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 11:47 AM
If ASUS spilled the beans, I wonder what if anything Apple is going to do about it?

Report states "being manufactured" hope that means production units and not pilot units.

2008 is going to be interesting, damn where is that lottery ticket?

bj3949
Nov 6, 2007, 11:49 AM
MACBOOK TOUCH NECESSITIES
------------------------------
1. It should come in 9 inch, 13 inch & 17 inch
2. Reversible/2-sided camera so you could shoot at other people while looking at your MacBook Touch.
3. Black
4. Express card support might not be necessary anymore because AirCard work on USB now
5. Ability to touch anything on screen like iPhone, however have a pop-out keyboard if you want to use a regular keyboard.
6. USB, Firewire, SD Card Support
7. Bluetooth
8. Airport
9. 200 GB HD mininum
10. 4 GB ram maximum
11. It would be awesome if it could scan. Not a "necessity" though :)
12. Speakers (quality)
13. Multi-touch pad
14. 8 hour plus battery life
15. GPS would be nice. Not a "necessity" though :)
16. Much improved screen over current MacBook Pro
17. SuperDrive with Bluray and HD capability. Bluray/HD Not a "necessity" though :)
18. 360˚ turning screen
19. One piece, not two. What I mean is the screen is the whole MacBook Touch, like iPhone. It would be cool though if there was a slide-out/pop-out credit-card- thin manual keyboard.
20. If whole device could be no thicker than iPhone, bravo Apple.
21. Universal iPod/iPhone Docking Station (maybe as a pop-out like keyboard)
22. Lastly, obviously an attached stand with a few height/positioning choices.

brockm
Nov 6, 2007, 11:53 AM
This is really cool, but does anyone else think Apple needs to seriously hunker down and firm up on it's OS development instead of taking the developers off to work on every little pet project that comes along?

After two weeks with Leopard (as a developer myself), I have to say that the issues stacking up with Leopard are getting quite annoying. ie. A very broken Java Virtual Machine, files disappearing when copying over network shares, time machine doing awkward things like deciding it's going to randomly start using the boot volume as a backup drive, etc.

I know it's a new release and I know problems with third-party software are to be expected. I have no problem with that. I say screw backwards compatibility if it means moving forward :)

But the issue here is not third-party compatibility. There are serious bugs with Leopard, including some security flaws (with the firewall not working).

If you want to be really honest, I don't think Vista was this bad out of the gate. I know Vista had ****** driver support at launch, and everybody screamed and yelled about hardware not working. But was that really unexpected? Sure Vista had poor support for hardware, but then again, it supports more hardware than OS X does.

In my experience, Vista had very few, if any critical bugs in it's initial retail release.

Bottom line: I don't use Vista. I just want to break down the reality distortion field here, and make the point that Apple's attention to quality with OS X seems to be slipping as they become more focused on "consumer electronics". And in my first two weeks as a developer with 10.5, it's really showing.

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 11:55 AM
what would be the benefit of a tablet mac. i know the idea sounds cool and it (as is apple fashion) would look awesome, but what would one actually do with a tablet? just be able to draw/take handwritten notes vs. only type? isn't that why more and more college students are taking laptops to school - so they don't have to take handwriting notes?

maybe i'm off on practicality, but i'm just not seeing it . . .

if you want compact, bring on the 12" MBP!!!

Your hands and fingers are a lot more accurate than a mouse.
Organizing items in your folders, editing photos, editing video, taking the good old note, writting comments on a document including what corrections should be made, browsing the web, you name it. Set aside the mouse, wash your hands and just imagine actualy interacting with the Mac in one of the most natural ways. Distord a picture by pulling/pushing on the nose, wipe a background like you wipe something on a blackboard (no eraser handy) with your hands, etc. Add stars, pull the moon like in one of those "All Mighty" movies.

Imagination is the key, Apple is full of it, now we need to use ours.

HiRez
Nov 6, 2007, 11:58 AM
Awesome if I can fit it in my pocket. If not, I might as well carry a 12"Yeah, that's how I feel about it. 1.5x iPhone size means 1.5x too big for my pocket, so why bother? That much extra size won't enable a lot more functionality, and as you say, it's hardly any more convenient that carrying a small laptop (most bags, containers, slots, holes, etc. tend to be about book-sized anyway), and some thing inbetween that and an iPhone is awkward to hold or carry.

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 12:00 PM
Was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it. :)

January has the potential to be fun and exciting, but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

The rumor will go away when the product ships, understand or not ..... People want it.

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 12:00 PM
A 720 x 480 device with reasonable playback quality, 32GB SSD (with expandability) AND fits in your pocket? You're kidding, right? I'd like a Xeon MacBookPro with a 750GB HDD, but it's just not possible.

Not at all! The technology for 32 Gb should be available next year or Apple could simply use multiple flash devices now. Understand that that is only doubling the current Touches memory foot print. As to the small HD displays I think if you search around with the sites of the LCD manufactures you will see that is a possibility but then there are options coming on line with respect to LCD screens. Nothing suggested here is impossible and given Apples track record with solid state storage very doable.

Also, this thing is a phone?? Nay, nay, nay. If it has ANYTHING to do with cell-carriers, it'll be EDGE (or comparable) for data and if it has ANYTHING to do with that, it'll be expensive to use, no matter what carrier you choose. I forsee wi-fi only (or Wi-Max (or comparable) in the future).

Nope can't accept that. The unit needs cell connectivity delivered in one way or another. Someone suggested a plug in card, that would be acceptable though probably not power optimal. The problem is that cell technology, as bad as it is, is available almost anywhere. You simply can't rely on WiFi. As to WiMax that is cell technology in my book in that it has the same marketing approaches.


High performance at a low power level... This does not exist... Even with a multi-core ARM.

I'm not sure you know what you are talking about. Everything is relative but ARM is the only approach that provides high performance at low power levels. Further we have yet to see a large number of ARM processor come out on the finer processes. There is a lot of potential for improving performance and power usage on ARM processors. The fact is that companies like Qualcom are working on chip sets that would be highly optimized for these sorts of devices. Give me an ARM on 45 or 65nm process that is both fast and power stingy and I will be happy.

The flip side of this is that as the processor becomes more power stingy the flash storage ends up using a large portion of the power budget. So improvements here wouldn't hurt either.

The existing iPhone (to some) is barely "pocketable" How do you expect a higher-powered device to be any smaller? And even if the device is the same size, how do you intend on cramming 720 x 480 into it? That doesn't even exist.

What the h**l do you have the pockets of a 5 year old? Come do you really expect ot make a statement like that and get no response.

In any event I thought I was pretty clear that I don't want a smaller device I want a bigger iPhone. Something slightly larger than a touch would do just fine.

Of course there's a market for a small hand-held HD, 32GB (expanable) device that can do EVERYTHING. We just don't have the technology to make it yet... not for another 5 years. But by then, you'll be wanting something even more grandiose that can't exist either. Get a grip on reality.

I guess this is where I really disagree with you the technology is not that far away at all. Maybe a few months at the most. The Flash issue will be taken care of at the beginning of the year. A better processor is just a matter of integration of stuff coming on line next year also. The screen should be doable now.

Dave, are you a newbie? No? How do you not know these things after almost 400 posts?

Nope not a newbie at all. I just read a lot of trades and I think you should too. Of course the trades are only part of it, look at what the hardware manufactures have already alluded to with respect to Android. Also look at the news release from outfits like SAMSUNG as they have pretty much layed out when new flash technology is coming on line. ARM is pretty open to.

So I can only suggest that one look at these resources to imagine what is possible. Not with technology three to five years down the road but with technology that is due for the new year.


-Clive
Dave

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 12:13 PM
Honestly -


Hows MicroSofts HTPC or Tablet PC Doing....

Look at how well these devices work for the use cases described here.


I see people with Cell Phones or Laptops.... I never see a stand alone iPaq or PocketPC anymore....

Or Ipods. This is why I think these sorts of devices need to be multi purpose. As I;ve stated on threads in other forums people really don't want a bunch of electronics in their pockets. They want one device that covers a number of desires. So a device without cell or MP3 playing support is pretty low on the demand scale. Just look at Nokia's N800 series, something that had potential but no vision from the manufacture. contrast this with the iPod Touch with is limited in hardware yet obviously is the result of a vision.

In any event anything going into the pocket MUST be able to serve multiple roles like any good slave. The more flexible the device is the better it will be.


What I'm thinking this may be is a new iPod 7" wide screen rather than a newton like device.

Could be. I see the market for several devices to be honest. I just want one that can fit into the pocket and offer up a bit more than the current iPhone and Touch. I believe this is very doable by the spring.


Dave

ucfgrad93
Nov 6, 2007, 12:14 PM
I'll believe the Apple tablet when I see it. Man, this is the rumor that just won't die.:rolleyes:

pepinillo2012
Nov 6, 2007, 12:19 PM
I can't tell if this is a fake or not.

New Mac Tablet

(Flickr) http://www.flickr.com/photos/98144406@N00/1890085378/

Orng
Nov 6, 2007, 12:25 PM
Know what would solve the battery life problem for the tablet? Just have "power-ups" randomly distributed throughout major cities and behind trees and garbage cans and stuff, and when you walk over one, the tablet says "x2 hours battery life" and you just keep on going.

Just make sure you find LOTS of them before you have to face the boss. Sometimes it helps to leave the room and come back to reset all the power-ups

Okay, back to the PS2.

I can't tell if this is a fake or not.

New Mac Tablet

(Flickr) http://www.flickr.com/photos/98144406@N00/1890085378/

It's not only merely fake;
It's really, most sincerely fake!

And in the name of the Lollipop Guild, we'd like to welcome you to Macrumorsland!

asphalt-proof
Nov 6, 2007, 12:31 PM
Your hands and fingers are a lot more accurate than a mouse.
Organizing items in your folders, editing photos, editing video, taking the good old note, writting comments on a document including what corrections should be made, browsing the web, you name it. Set aside the mouse, wash your hands and just imagine actualy interacting with the Mac in one of the most natural ways. Distord a picture by pulling/pushing on the nose, wipe a background like you wipe something on a blackboard (no eraser handy) with your hands, etc. Add stars, pull the moon like in one of those "All Mighty" movies.

Imagination is the key, Apple is full of it, now we need to use ours.

But that is kind of the point: WE have to think of some reason to use it. With the iPod its pretty much a given as to what the product is for, how to use it, etc. WHen the consumer has to come up with ideas as to how to use a product, usually the consumer goes looking elsewhere. This is why the Origami project was a non-starter. The producers were never able to convincingly show what niche the idea fit into. Sure it has nice characteristics for the medical community or warehouse workers etc. But those don't translate into consumer products very well. Its actually worse than consumer-beta testing. Your asking the consumers to come up with a reason to buy your product instead of providing one to them.

Maybe Apple (if this rumor is 'true') will come up with a compelling reason for buying an iTablet, but don't expect them to make one and then have us come up with a reason to buy it.

Wild-Bill
Nov 6, 2007, 12:48 PM
I'd rather see Apple paying attention to their existing product line (both hardware and software) than venturing into the tablet scene.

There are many things they could be working on, like updates, bug fixes, freezing issues, etc.... :apple:

dernhelm
Nov 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
I can't tell if this is a fake or not.

New Mac Tablet

(Flickr) http://www.flickr.com/photos/98144406@N00/1890085378/

Let me help you out here.

IT'S A FAKE!

surferuke
Nov 6, 2007, 12:57 PM
we already have seen the birth of the ultimate gadget: the iphone. it needs some more space for music, photos, and video and improved connectivity. i was an idiot and sold my 30GB ipod and then was a bit disappointed with the touch and didn't buy it. let's get excited about iphone 2 instead that is worth the 175$ verizon termination fee.

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 01:01 PM
But that is kind of the point: WE have to think of some reason to use it. With the iPod its pretty much a given as to what the product is for, how to use it, etc.

Likewise the iPhones cell feature. This is why I think any device that Apple offers up must have either or both of these features.

WHen the consumer has to come up with ideas as to how to use a product, usually the consumer goes looking elsewhere. This is why the Origami project was a non-starter.

I tend to agree and rather like how you expressed the above. I will state though that net access and E-Mail access are now becoming consumer needs in and of themselves. Apple has been very smart in this respect as they focused on these features.

I do not believe however that most consumers will be happy with a device that only does E-Mail and net access in their pocket, It needs the functionality of other devices specifically mp3 playing or cell capability.


The producers were never able to convincingly show what niche the idea fit into. Sure it has nice characteristics for the medical community or warehouse workers etc. But those don't translate into consumer products very well.

On the other hand low cost consumer products can have application in industry. A $300 dollar web access device is better than a $3000 one. The only place that Apple messed up with here is the internal battery.

Its actually worse than consumer-beta testing. Your asking the consumers to come up with a reason to buy your product instead of providing one to them.

Well I tend to have an exception here with respect to that statement. When speaking about computing devices consumers often do come up with a reason to buy the hardware. That is one of the reasons that the supply of new apps for PC's seems to be endless.


Maybe Apple (if this rumor is 'true') will come up with a compelling reason for buying an iTablet, but don't expect them to make one and then have us come up with a reason to buy it.

I think the reasons are there. Combining cell phone and net access is very compelling if you look at the success of iPhone. Adding in the abilty to run the apps of your choice makes for a better product.

Now the problem is that one has to agree that net access is a compelling reason to have one of these devices. I'd have to say that it will be in the future and for many is now. It is a significant part of the equation. To sum up I believe these devices will be successful if marketed correctly. So we need the following:


Audio media player functionality
Cell phone access or at least the option.
Video play back.
E-mail
Web Browsing.
The applications of your choice.
Bluetooth


It should be noted that this sounds a lot like the Touch now. It would not take much to produce a slightly more enhanced version of Touch that adds the communications features. What it comes down to is a touch similar device with a larger screen - should be easy.

What demonstrates that there is potential here is the number of people that want their devices to do more and in the case of the Touch jailbreak the machine to get that. So in a sense they are showing Apple what is needed in a tablet.

Dave

nagromme
Nov 6, 2007, 01:03 PM
I have a million uses for a Mac in my pocket or a 9-10" laptop. Intel preferred over ARM.

I don't yet know what will be the best option for me--currently an iPhone would be best, but I'm waiting to see about ultraportable MacBook rumors. So I eagerly await whatever third option Apple may come up with.

Yateball
Nov 6, 2007, 01:04 PM
It won't happen.

Next...

Any evidence to support this seemingly ridiculous claim?
How can you just say "won't happen"... clearly apple has invested a lot into their multi touch technology.

nagromme
Nov 6, 2007, 01:05 PM
I'll believe the Apple tablet when I see it. Man, this is the rumor that just won't die.:rolleyes:

That and the Intel switch and the Apple phone ;)

Things that don't make sense in one year may come to make sense in a future year :)

Yateball
Nov 6, 2007, 01:08 PM
GPS Built-in would be freakin sweet

AndyMulhearn
Nov 6, 2007, 01:14 PM
The device I would buy in a second would be have the form factor of an iPhone, but with a 6 or 7 inch screen. Hopefully, overall thickness would be very close to the iPhone's. It would a light version of OSX with instant-on capability. 8GB or so of flash memory; maybe a hard drive option.

I would use it as a (i) PDA (assuming the inclusion of versions of iCal, Address Book, Mail, etc.); (ii) internet surfing device/Blackberry (when near WiFi); and (iii) media player. It would replace my iPod and my paper calendar. Maybe -- just maybe -- it could be a phone too (by using a Bluetooth headset).

Where do I sign up for one of those? It's just what I've been looking for.

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 01:15 PM
we already have seen the birth of the ultimate gadget: the iphone. it needs some more space for music, photos, and video and improved connectivity.

A birth of a premature gadget if you ask me. Don't get me wrong the iPhone is impressive but there are many things about it that are of issue. The state of the software is one thing. The screen size another.

i was an idiot and sold my 30GB ipod and then was a bit disappointed with the touch and didn't buy it.

So what disappointed you about the Touch? I ask because I was dismayed also as the Touch came very close to being the perfect device in my eyes.

let's get excited about iphone 2 instead that is worth the 175$ verizon termination fee.
Well iPhone 2 could be it. On the other hand I really believe that Apple has the potential here for a whole family of devices. Items that can meet many needs, in many cases differentiated by screen size and the whether or not it has cell capability. I could easily see one more pocketable device and a larger screeen device for example


Dave

farmboy
Nov 6, 2007, 01:19 PM
MACBOOK TOUCH NECESSITIES
------------------------------
1. It should come in 9 inch, 13 inch & 17 inch
2. Reversible/2-sided camera so you could shoot at other people while looking at your MacBook Touch.
3. Black
4. Express card support might not be necessary anymore because AirCard work on USB now
5. Ability to touch anything on screen like iPhone, however have a pop-out keyboard if you want to use a regular keyboard.
6. USB, Firewire, SD Card Support
7. Bluetooth
8. Airport
9. 200 GB HD mininum
10. 4 GB ram maximum
11. It would be awesome if it could scan. Not a "necessity" though :)
12. Speakers (quality)
13. Multi-touch pad
14. 8 hour plus battery life
15. GPS would be nice. Not a "necessity" though :)
16. Much improved screen over current MacBook Pro
17. SuperDrive with Bluray and HD capability. Bluray/HD Not a "necessity" though :)
18. 360˚ turning screen
19. One piece, not two. What I mean is the screen is the whole MacBook Touch, like iPhone. It would be cool though if there was a slide-out/pop-out credit-card- thin manual keyboard.
20. If whole device could be no thicker than iPhone, bravo Apple.
21. Universal iPod/iPhone Docking Station (maybe as a pop-out like keyboard)
22. Lastly, obviously an attached stand with a few height/positioning choices.

Get serious. Even if it could be done, it would cost a fortune. Besides, "360° turning screen..."One piece, not two" What am I missing here?

cbrain
Nov 6, 2007, 01:21 PM
It seems possible, but if we are going to see it, it'll probably be unveiled at Macworld.

sinisterdesign
Nov 6, 2007, 01:21 PM
There's already a tablet Mac. It's called the iPhone. There's also the iPod touch.

Tablets have been something of a failure. There are a very small niches where they make sense (warehousing, hospitals) but none of these fall into Apple's typical use profiles. Everything Apple has done over the last 10 years has focussed on the multimedia-enabled home user.

Bear in mind that Nokia has recently ADDED a keyboard to its latest small Internet tablet (the N810). So Internet tablets have had their five minutes to make their claim to fame, and are now evolving away from the original tablet concept into more of a hybrid device.

Additionally, knowing Apple as we do, I don't see what they could bring to tablets to make them better. Apple focus on "just works" simplicity. What could they possibly add to the tablet concept to enable this? The concept is fundamentally flawed for most users.

i agree 100%. i was going to share my opinions, but you nailed them already...

surferuke
Nov 6, 2007, 01:25 PM
i live in tennessee. there aren't even any apple stores nearby. when i was finally able to compare the iphone and the touch, my 'anxiety' ended. the touch was not what i dreamed it up to be. it doesn't have the same feel and the iphone has some really impressive perks, like the visual voice mail and ability to get on anywhere. i met another student with the touch who cannot even access our university LEAP network to get internet. another student has the iphone which kicks into the edge network.

i am still in shock since march. i am not a techie in the true sense, but if you ask me, the apple people really hit the bullseye of all bullseyes with the iphone. the touch, give me a free and i'll take it, but blah, blah.

i am not too thrilled about ATT, but apparently, apple had the freedom to design the device that THEY envisioned instead of a stupid company saying "do this do that" and "take that feature off..."

i am really hoping for a 32gb iphone. I WILL BE WILLING TO SLEEP OUT FOR THAT ONE.

Cloudane
Nov 6, 2007, 01:25 PM
This old chestnut again?!

Not that optimism isn't a bad thing. People were speculating over an iPod Touch since the day the iPhone was unveiled, and it happened eventually.

Needless to say, sometime next year when my G4 Powerbook is paid off this would be very very attractive. Though it's been given a new lease of life with Leopard!

surferuke
Nov 6, 2007, 01:27 PM
don't get me wrong, our jaws will drop if there is a tablet, but the whole ease of transport all-encompassing device would not be possible. bear with me, it would be a sort of european purse for men.

Derwood
Nov 6, 2007, 01:34 PM
Hmmm... 1.5 x iPhone dimensions, eh?

I would think that if this appears it will be marketed as an extension of the iPhone product line, rather than as an entirely new tablet PC from Apple.

"Love your iPhone? Well, this time there's more of it to love..."

It would vastly improve the usability and applications of the soft keyboard, bring in the possibility of almost fully functional office applications (.doc, .xls, .ppt, Keynote, Pages, Numbers et al.) and even stripped down versions of iLife suite (editing photo's, videos on the move, field recordings through Garageband lite).

I think this could be a real hit.

Virgil-TB2
Nov 6, 2007, 01:37 PM
... Tablets have been something of a failure. There are a very small niches where they make sense (warehousing, hospitals) but none of these fall into Apple's typical use profiles. Everything Apple has done over the last 10 years has focussed on the multimedia-enabled home user. ...Agreed.

For this reason, I think that any tablet Apple comes out with is likely to be aimed directly at the "multimedia enabled home user." I am thinking it might be a living room computer for the kids and your mom, interfaces with the TV, the web, etc. Kind of like a portable screen for your TV or your computer as well as serving as a kind of remote control for both.

Incorporate some telephone functionality and this one device will give you access and control over your whole multimedia enabled home.

Whether this happens or not ... in terms of tablet hardware, I would love to see Apple come out with a combination of the multi-touch and the traditional touch screens.

Moving virtual documents around with your fingers, but still being able to pull out a stylus and draw on the virtual paper would be an excellent and highly-efficient division of labour. Neither input method would recognise the other but both would work together cooperatively, each in their own "realm" sort of speak.

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 01:43 PM
i live in tennessee. there aren't even any apple stores nearby. when i was finally able to compare the iphone and the touch, my 'anxiety' ended. the touch was not what i dreamed it up to be. it doesn't have the same feel and the iphone has some really impressive perks, like the visual voice mail and ability to get on anywhere. i met another student with the touch who cannot even access our university LEAP network to get internet. another student has the iphone which kicks into the edge network.

This is why I expressed the opinion that the tablet needs to at least have the option of cell access. While you describe it as a perk it is really a necessity for devices of this nature. WiFi just isn't there enough of the time.

The thing with iPhone that bothers me is the screen. It is just to small to handle the internet access part of the equation on a regular basis. The browser needs work also but that is another discussion. When comparing the Touch and the iPhone side beside it is noticeable.


i am still in shock since march. i am not a techie in the true sense, but if you ask me, the apple people really hit the bullseye of all bullseyes with the iphone. the touch, give me a free and i'll take it, but blah, blah.

I believe the iPhone is a good first effort but I don't see it as the final product and I don't think Apple sees it this way either. The iPhone did hit the bullseye but that is simply because the target was wide open with no competition. Apple needs to firm up the iPhones software suite quick. I think that was in the plans already though.

The Touch is an interesting device to be sure and has its place at the bottom of this device category. I do see potential for a device with more features though.


i am not too thrilled about ATT, but apparently, apple had the freedom to design the device that THEY envisioned instead of a stupid company saying "do this do that" and "take that feature off..."

I'm not to sure how free Apple is with the iPhone. In any event their relationship with ATT is what makes the possibility of cell free devices a reality.

i am really hoping for a 32gb iphone. I WILL BE WILLING TO SLEEP OUT FOR THAT ONE.

It is sure to be coming, I expect by spring. It is likely to be a rev of the current iPhone. I expect iPhone 2 to provide more features.

dave

Crike .40
Nov 6, 2007, 01:47 PM
I think there is a trend that is forming around this discussion (as has happened almost countless times in the past at this point). There are three camps of people. 1) People who think this device has a large enough niche to do well. 2) People who think this device is already covered by existing products. 3) People who have not yet logically gotten to the question about niche because they believe Apple should be developing existing products first.

I fall into all three categories. So here is how I feel about it, follow by the ideal solution (for me). Treat this new tablet as an extension of your iPhone and laptop teams. Employees working on it's software/OS should be the same as those developers working on software/OS for iphone/touch. Employees working on the hardware should be from the same team as those designing MB/MBPs. This use of existing teams prevents Apple from removing resources from existing projects by simply incorporating this product into existing lines. Next, Apple should be very sure to include features that are unique to the product. Creating this feature set allows for differentiation from existing product lines. As people have said before high performance / low cost would be a great place for Apple to be. Finally, Apple needs to differentiate the product a great deal. It needs to have a clear design goal in mind. People should immediately think, "wow, I never thought of that, but now that I have, I need it." So, that being said, here's what I want.

1) Give me my 12" PB back. There are plenty of people clammoring for this, and regardless of similarities to the MB, there needs to be a new small MBP.
2) This new MBP (12) should not be the table, it's too big, and the tablet feature would seem like a gimmick.
3)It should support at least 720 resolution. More is better (especially with increased RI). The screen needs to be significantly larger than the size of the iPhone, but no bigger than 8" diagonal.
4) It should support all apps that run on OSX (maybe this means intel proc, but I don't doubt ARM can do this).
5) No need for moving parts or optical drives, optional dock would be nice, or the ability to use an existing computer as a dock of sorts.
6) Back to my Mac needs to be flushed out as it is essential for this machine.
7) It should use both multi-touch (for typical OS control) as well as stylus based (for artist desiring a built-in Wacom).
8) It should support keyboard and mouse, but not come with them. The idea of the pop-out keyboard is nice, but it seems like a waste of space.
9) At over US$800 it would compete to closely with MB, at under US$600 it would compete too closely with iPhone.

10) 5 Products:
$600 - wifi/BT/OSX, small flash HD
$700 - wifi/BT/OSX, bigger flash HD + storage bay - option for edge
$800 - wifi/BT/OSX/EDGE, large flash HD + bay for more storage,
dock with keyboard/mouse
$100 - Dock/keyboard/mouse
$50 - edge add-on


(just what I would like to see)

macmike47
Nov 6, 2007, 01:56 PM
And besides, Jobs himself admited that Apple was working on a tablet Mac. Then he rejected because people don't want to handwrite all their emails.



Surely, having debunked the stylus with iPhone, Apple wouldn't expect people to use one to hand-write emails. I'd bet quite a lot that all the tactile-keys-on-touch-screen patent stuff we've seen will make it's way into the 'iTab' (:D).

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 01:56 PM
Agreed.

I don't know how you can agree with this as Apple is selling a lot fo tablet computer right now in the form of Touch and iPhone

For this reason, I think that any tablet Apple comes out with is likely to be aimed directly at the "multimedia enabled home user." I am thinking it might be a living room computer for the kids and your mom, interfaces with the TV, the web, etc. Kind of like a portable screen for your TV or your computer as well as serving as a kind of remote control for both.

Not the market I'm thinking about at all.


Incorporate some telephone functionality and this one device will give you access and control over your whole multimedia enabled home.

Still not what I'm thinking about. Portability is the number one thing here.


Whether this happens or not ... in terms of tablet hardware, I would love to see Apple come out with a combination of the multi-touch and the traditional touch screens.

Which wouldn't be of much use unless they are in the form of a tablet computer.


Moving virtual documents around with your fingers, but still being able to pull out a stylus and draw on the virtual paper would be an excellent and highly-efficient division of labour. Neither input method would recognise the other but both would work together cooperatively, each in their own "realm" sort of speak.
Seems like you are on a wholly different track then the rest of us. We are talking about a portable device or rather a family of such devices, where at least a couple of them fit into your pocket. The idea being to provide iPhone like functionality with support for a high resolution screen preferably sized right. The larger screen would provide a platform for the enhanced deliver of apps and multimedia especially movies.

Dave

MattInOz
Nov 6, 2007, 02:02 PM
tablets won't happen.

Jobs has always said that people want to use a keyboard and a mouse/similar input device.

Imagine typing out a document on a touch screen. I'm not sure the technology is there yet to provide a decent solution to a keyboardless computer.

from 2003: http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/06/05.9.shtml

M [Walt Mossberg]: A lot of people think given the success you've had with portable devices, you should be making a tablet or a PDA.
J [Steve Jobs]: There are no plans to make a tablet. It turns out people want keyboards. When Apple first started out, "People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this." "We look at the tablet and we think it's going to fail." Tablets appeal to rich guys with plenty of other PCs and devices already. "And people accuse us of niche markets." I get a lot of pressure to do a PDA. What people really seem to want to do with these is get the data out . We believe cell phones are going to carry this information. We didn't think we'd do well in the cell phone business. What we've done instead is we've written what we think is some of the best software in the world to start syncing information between devices. We believe that mode is what cell phones need to get to. We chose to do the iPod instead of a PDA.

from the link this was mid way through 2003, and steve had fairly detailed reasoning why the tablet wasn't right then.
We are 4 years on, and alot of the problems are close to being answered.
Even in the part you quote Steve says the ideal device is a phone for getting info out.

MacPhilosopher
Nov 6, 2007, 02:03 PM
As much as I would like to have an Apple Tablet, I would just be happy if Apple produces an ultra-portable MacBook. People walk up to me all the time and tell me that they love my 12" Al G4 PowerBook. I still think it is the best portable Apple ever made. Just think of what they could squeeze into a 12" ultra-thin today. Just forgo the optical drive, give me a dock-able. Just get it done. Every time I see someone carting around these ridiculously huge Dell and HP laptops, I begin to wonder if anyone understands the concept of "portable"? Easy to carry around. Just big enough to manage your needs on the road, but not so big that it makes moving it around tiresome or uncomfortable. If it were to be a tablet, well, all the better for those of us that use our Macs for artistic/design endeavors. Really, don't those Dell and HP behemoths just crack you up? :D

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 02:13 PM
But that is kind of the point: WE have to think of some reason to use it. With the iPod its pretty much a given as to what the product is for, how to use it, etc. WHen the consumer has to come up with ideas as to how to use a product, usually the consumer goes looking elsewhere. This is why the Origami project was a non-starter. The producers were never able to convincingly show what niche the idea fit into. Sure it has nice characteristics for the medical community or warehouse workers etc. But those don't translate into consumer products very well. Its actually worse than consumer-beta testing. Your asking the consumers to come up with a reason to buy your product instead of providing one to them.

Maybe Apple (if this rumor is 'true') will come up with a compelling reason for buying an iTablet, but don't expect them to make one and then have us come up with a reason to buy it.

The product has not been released and does not exist in the market yet. When it is out Apple will show you how to use it. Just like the iPhone, nobody knew how to use something they have not seen and had no idea how to put a multitouch interface to use. Just like the new email under Leopard, before it was released people had no idea how to get bits of data in the emails to create ToDo lists, to add some bits to AddressBook and to add other bits to Calendar.

Until you see it and see how it works and what the possible interactions are, how can you "value" it?

We are speaking of a "virtual device" aka vaporware whose function and implementation we do not know and are only taking not-so-educated guesses at.

lazyrighteye
Nov 6, 2007, 02:13 PM
Maybe our ultra portable is this device.
Not a phone.
Not a PDA.
Not a laptop.
But all three?
Maybe this is iPhone v2?
The evolution of the device. Something between a phone and laptop.

I could see it.

Orng
Nov 6, 2007, 02:17 PM
... time I see someone carting around these ridiculously huge Dell and HP laptops, I begin to wonder if anyone understands the concept of "portable"? Easy to carry around. Just big enough to manage your needs on the road, but not so big that it makes moving it around tiresome or uncomfortable... Really, don't those Dell and HP behemoths just crack you up? :D

My wife's 15" Dell seems absurdly big, but my moms 17" HP is like a paving stone. It's bigger than a cafeteria tray! Jeebus H. Crickets, I just don't get why people want to carry a huge monitor around with them. And my Mom especially... she takes it from her art table at home and parks it on her desk at work. She could have bought a 12" something or other and two nice flat panel monitors and been just as happy.

For me, anything I need a huge monitor for (video) I ALSO need an External HD for, and I will park both on my desk. So ya, count me in with the folks who want a 12 inch MBP; I can surf the net on the couch and then haul it downstairs for video, flash and photoshop. If I need to edit on the road, i can suffer the small screen for a day or two, it doesn't happen that often.

cubist
Nov 6, 2007, 02:17 PM
I remember long discussions of the Mac Tablet as long ago as 2000, and I think it was an old rumor then. One feature we discussed was that, if you pack a thin keyboard (and those new iMac keyboards are amazingly thin), you've got your ultraportable.

Always loved the way the 12" powerbook opened and closed, its solid feel. Make that thinner (with a more powerful cpu and more memory), make the keyboard detachable (but it comes with it), make the screen touch-sensitive, and you've got a dreamy convertible laptop/tablet. (Call it a "laplet"?)

P.S. That said, I don't believe this rumor, this time, either.

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 02:21 PM
Maybe Apple (if this rumor is 'true') will come up with a compelling reason for buying an iTablet, but don't expect them to make one and then have us come up with a reason to buy it.

Apple always does. They come up with solutions to problems you did not know you had. They are genious at marketing, at showing people why they need the product. Have faith.

Look at the iPhone, we had browsers in computers, we have millions of phones, we have music players, sounds like nothing new. The trick is making them work together and provide you an interface that makes it easy to manage all of those capabilities. Apple provide:
a) Kool factor
b) New easy interface
c) convergence of the devices.

Now those iPhones (which are not needed, and do not solve world hunger) can't rest 5 minutes on the shelves.

They will show you and make you want it until you are ready to sell your first born to get it.

goldenlotus
Nov 6, 2007, 02:25 PM
Good lord, this again?

I wish it would just go away.

Haha! Greatest post ever!

happydude
Nov 6, 2007, 02:29 PM
Your hands and fingers are a lot more accurate than a mouse.
Organizing items in your folders, editing photos, editing video, taking the good old note, writting comments on a document including what corrections should be made, browsing the web, you name it. Set aside the mouse, wash your hands and just imagine actualy interacting with the Mac in one of the most natural ways. Distord a picture by pulling/pushing on the nose, wipe a background like you wipe something on a blackboard (no eraser handy) with your hands, etc. Add stars, pull the moon like in one of those "All Mighty" movies.

Imagination is the key, Apple is full of it, now we need to use ours.

now, that's a pie-eyed apple fanboy wetdream of a description if i've ever heard one!! such an :apple: romantic as you surely are on SJ's speed dial.

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 02:30 PM
Not at all! The technology for 32 Gb should be available next year or Apple could simply use multiple flash devices now. Understand that that is only doubling the current Touches memory foot print. As to the small HD displays I think if you search around with the sites of the LCD manufactures you will see that is a possibility but then there are options coming on line with respect to LCD screens. Nothing suggested here is impossible and given Apples track record with solid state storage very doable...

Okay, it's becoming clear to me that you're still thinking within the iPhone box. You're actually looking for a next-gen iPhone... Not a tablet as I'm sure most of us are thinking.

That being said, iPhone doesn't (physically) have that much room to grow, therefore you'll have to use the existing form-factor. 720 X 480 resolution on a 3.5" display = 250 PPI. Even, if anyone has developed a 250 PPI display, it sure as hell isn't in production, much less anywhere near affordable to the average consumer.

Sure the vision you described for your iPhone Plus *could* be realized within two years, it won't be even remotely affordable for twice that time.

Can we go back to talking about tablets again, now?

-Clive

psychofreak
Nov 6, 2007, 02:31 PM
now, that's a pie-eyed apple fanboy wetdream of a description if i've ever heard one!! such an :apple: romantic as you surely are on SJ's speed dial.

From seeing Jeff Han's work, this does not seem so unfeasible for Apple...

happydude
Nov 6, 2007, 02:43 PM
Likewise the iPhones cell feature. This is why I think any device that Apple offers up must have either or both of these features.

I tend to agree and rather like how you expressed the above. I will state though that net access and E-Mail access are now becoming consumer needs in and of themselves. Apple has been very smart in this respect as they focused on these features.

I do not believe however that most consumers will be happy with a device that only does E-Mail and net access in their pocket, It needs the functionality of other devices specifically mp3 playing or cell capability.

Dave

isn't that what we already have - the iphone. i'm in the camp (as someone else said - too lazy to copy and paste their quote in here) that the iphone in its current form was a premature release. i'd guess the iphone 2 is the rumored tablet. it already has the multi touch, can call, play mp3, take really low res pictures, etc. but if they just add document reading and editing, hard disk mode and some sort of drawing application (could be a 3rd party dev) we're in tablet land. i can't imagine it getting any bigger than it already is as people without cargo pockets will still want to carry it around in their pockets. any bigger than slightly bigger begs the question of just why not a 12" MB/MBP with a touch screen interface?

Orng
Nov 6, 2007, 02:56 PM
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/nivekimage/LOLSteve.jpg

headfuzz
Nov 6, 2007, 03:10 PM
bring on the 12" MBP!!!

Amen. :)

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 03:24 PM
MACBOOK TOUCH NECESSITIES

I need to make a few fixes here... My comments in Bold.

1. It should come in 9 inch, 13 inch & 17 inch Portable, please?
2. Reversible/2-sided camera so you could shoot at other people while looking at your MacBook Touch. No. No freaking camera.
3. Black And white? Aluminium?
4. Express card support might not be necessary anymore because AirCard work on USB now What does this even mean?
5. Ability to touch anything on screen like iPhone, however have a pop-out keyboard if you want to use a regular keyboard. No. Just... no.
6. USB, Firewire, SD Card Support SD Card support? What are you? A PC manufacturer?
7. Bluetooth
8. Airport
9. 200 64 GB HD mininum SSD needed for power consumption and weight
10. 4 2 GB ram maximum It's a portable, not a workstation
11. It would be awesome if it could scan. Not a "necessity" though :) scan? Is it 1995 in here or is it just you?
12. Speakers (quality)
13. Multi-touch pad You mean screen?
14. 8 hour plus battery life
15. GPS would be nice. Not a "necessity" though :) For what purpose?
16. Much improved screen over current MacBook Pro There's nothing wrong with the MBP's screen, for a portable
17. SuperDrive with Bluray and HD capability. Bluray/HD Not a "necessity" though :) No Optical! No! No! No! Please, stop using spinning media! Barbarians!
18. 360˚ turning screen Conflicts with #19... unless you mean that you can rotate the entire unit in your hand, in which case, I'm all for it. I've always liked technology that I could move however I pleased.
19. One piece, not two. What I mean is the screen is the whole MacBook Touch, like iPhone. It would be cool though if there was a slide-out/pop-out credit-card- thin manual keyboard. A credit card-thin manual keyboard? on a 17" device? So if this thing is a tablet and you're typing with two thumbs, meanwhile holding the unit upright via the keyboard... what do you think will happen. Now I'm no physics major - no wait, yes I am - what would happen to a 5+ pound weight extending outward from a credit card? Let me help you with this one... SNAP
NO POPOUT KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!
20. If whole device could be no thicker than iPhone, bravo Apple. Bravo indeed, but that would be near-impossible, especially when that Superdrive you want is already 11mm thick, while the iPhone is 11.6
21. Universal iPod/iPhone Docking Station (maybe as a pop-out like keyboard) Why? So your iPod can fall out of the top of your tablet as you're riding on a bumpy bus? Just use the freaking cord.
22. Lastly, obviously an attached stand with a few height/positioning choices. First smart thing you've said in this post.

Welcome to reality.

-Clive

Orng
Nov 6, 2007, 03:37 PM
SD Card support? What are you? A PC manufacturer?

-Clive

I don't want to upset you, since you're obviously just a teensy bit on edge, but I'd kinda like a built-in SD card reader myself. Instead of an optical drive. Load up my pictures on the road without that dang cord and without wasting camera batteries.

In fact, I want an SD card reader instead of an optical drive, and I want SD cards going for a buck a gig, and I STILL want random power-ups hidden behind trees and buildings like in video games so I never have to charge the battery. That would be SWEET!

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 03:57 PM
As much as I would like to have an Apple Tablet, I would just be happy if Apple produces an ultra-portable MacBook.

Why couldn't both live in peace together?

Apple's computing devices from least powerful to most powerful (on a CPU level):

PDA Level: iTouch / iPhone,
Ultra-Portable Mobile Computing Level: Tablet / MacBook Mini
Low to Medium-Low-End Computing Level: MacBook / MacMini
Medium-Low to Medium Computing Level: MacBook Pro / iMac
Medium to Medium-High-End Computing Level: (huge gap [hmm... what goes here...])
Medium-High to High-End Computing Level: MacPro / Xserve

It interesting that for each tier of processing power, there's a slightly more portable model and a less portable model. I'm starting to see the uniformity in Apple's lineup once again.

-Clive

headfuzz
Nov 6, 2007, 03:59 PM
Medium to Medium-High-End Computing Level: (huge gap [hmm... what goes here...])


Don't get them all started again! :p

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 04:00 PM
I don't want to upset you, since you're obviously just a teensy bit on edge, but I'd kinda like a built-in SD card reader myself. Instead of an optical drive. Load up my pictures on the road without that dang cord and without wasting camera batteries.

In fact, I want an SD card reader instead of an optical drive, and I want SD cards going for a buck a gig, and I STILL want random power-ups hidden behind trees and buildings like in video games so I never have to charge the battery. That would be SWEET!

I don't use a digital camera very often, but how much power does it use to transfer pictures? Y'know, this is really a flaw of the camera designers, who need to add a low-power mode (powered by USB) to access SD content and initiate a transfer without requiring the camera to be "on."

Don't get them all started again! :p

Maybe it's obvious, but I am one of "Them." ;) What are we Prosumers supposed to use? Non-upgradeable laptop-powered iMacs?! Okay, I'm done, I'm done.

-Clive

psychofreak
Nov 6, 2007, 04:02 PM
I don't use a digital camera very often, but how much power does it use to transfer pictures? Y'know, this is really a flaw of the camera designers, who need to add a low-power mode (powered by USB) to access SD content and initiate a transfer without requiring the camera to be "on."

-Clive

WiFi SD cards (http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/socket-sdio-wifi.php) are the future :)

Westside guy
Nov 6, 2007, 04:08 PM
Now I'm no physics major - no wait, yes I am - what would happen to a 5+ pound weight extending outward from a credit card? Let me help you with this one... SNAP

Clive, Speaking as someone with a physics degree from back in the days when Isaac Newton roamed the earth - you're thinking like an engineer, NOT like a physicist. YOU'RE TOO CLOSE - STEP AWAY FROM REALITY NOW!

headfuzz
Nov 6, 2007, 04:11 PM
Maybe it's obvious, but I am one of "Them." ;) What are we Prosumers supposed to use? Non-upgradeable laptop-powered iMacs?! Okay, I'm done, I'm done.

-Clive

Hehe me too bud, me too. ;)

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 04:13 PM
Clive [...] you're thinking like an engineer, NOT like a physicist. YOU'RE TOO CLOSE - STEP AWAY FROM REALITY NOW!

*Jumps back*

Whew. That was close. Thanks for the warning!

So how're your eigenvalues today? Wave Function-liscious?

Good times.

WiFi SD cards (http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/socket-sdio-wifi.php) are the future :)

Hey, isn't that just a WiFi card that fits in an SD slot? Where do the pictures go?! Lame. We need a tiny chip-sized device that can do anything and everything.

42.

-Clive

farmboy
Nov 6, 2007, 05:20 PM
*Jumps back*

Whew. That was close. Thanks for the warning!

So how're your eigenvalues today? Wave Function-liscious?

Good times.



Hey, isn't that just a WiFi card that fits in an SD slot? Where do the pictures go?! Lame. We need a tiny chip-sized device that can do anything and everything.

42.

-Clive


Whose reality are we stepping away from? And are you really moving away from it or towards it? What's "quantum" about Quantum Physics anyhow?

GregA
Nov 6, 2007, 06:00 PM
GPS Built-in would be freakin sweet

Plausible features & SMALL expansions on what we already do:
1) GPS (totally agree!) and an amazing navigation (find anything).
2) All iPhone functions esp. data (phone via earphones or bluetooth headset)
3) Book reader (slightly larger size feasibly can replace existing books)
4) iPhoto with sync, USB port plus ability to import from a real camera. And publish to WebGallery
5) Note taker with pen input (perhaps Leopard mail.app's new "Notes" feature on the yellow notepad paper, is intended to be on the tablet with pen input, synchronised back to mail.app)
6) Create mail using stationery, handwriting?, and internal photos

Lesser Evets
Nov 6, 2007, 06:02 PM
If an Apple 'tablet' is merely 1.5x the size of an iPhone I sense a great wave of fail. Not like it won;t sell at all, but Apple will be missing a giant leap into a new computing area people need; true tablet for notes, art, display, that is about letter size.

Making iPhone 1.5x larger wouldn't be bad. Or make it just a little longer for more display on internet/writing. I think iPhone + slightly bigger tablet would be dumb. Almost two identical devices, but one would be taken seriously and the other left to rot.

The apple notebooks should all be 'iPhoned' to be note/art tablets, internet CHUD, and all around portable data workers. Just divide them up with non-mech. and mech. versions. The thin factor of a notebook without a lid, without a keyboard, without the thick drives, would be spoodge-a-licious.

GregA
Nov 6, 2007, 06:12 PM
Damn, don't you hate it when you lose something you've posted! SOrry, I can't quote whoever I was replying to.

To the person who thought the Tablet device need to be OSX compatible... NO.

When you create an OSX compatible (or WIndows compatible) tablet, what you get is a traditional laptop running traditional applications, but without a keyboard. The natural response for EVERY USER of such a tablet is "this would be great if it had a keyboard".

Apple needs to break people's expectations significantly if a Tablet is to be a real success. This sometimes means removing functionality it COULD have (clumsily), just to make sure that the device fits and defines a new paradigm. Apple can take what it's learned from Newton, iPhone, and MacBooks and come up with something new - the whole experience from the form to the apps on it (the apps should parallel with iPhone, of course).

As such... even if the Tablet has PC power, I would predict that Apple will either not allow 3rd party apps or will enforce rigorous interface guidelines and simply not allow 'desktop' class applications. They have to break the paradigm and they have all the pieces to do it.

GregA
Nov 6, 2007, 06:21 PM
(Oops, forgot the other part of my lost post)
If an Apple 'tablet' is merely 1.5x the size of an iPhone I sense a great wave of fail.

Look at the Appleinsider scale pictures though... and get a better idea of what the size increase means.

1.5x means that the landscape mode of the Tablet is as high as the current iPhone in Portrait mode. It's just 2.25 times wider.

ie: 2.91 x 1.94 (iphone portrait) -> 2.91 x 4.365 inches (Tablet landscape)

It seem to me that this is a good compromise size (And perhaps using an existing iPhone dimension makes porting apps easier)

EagerDragon
Nov 6, 2007, 07:35 PM
now, that's a pie-eyed apple fanboy wetdream of a description if i've ever heard one!! such an :apple: romantic as you surely are on SJ's speed dial.


Yea and he makes me pay for dinner every time. His pants are too tight with all the iPod Nanos and iPhone to cary his billfold.

totoro
Nov 6, 2007, 08:36 PM
This sounds pretty awesome if true!
But it will most definently not have cell ability and be released in the next five years, mainly because of att's contract. Unless you want it to be locked like the iPhone:eek:

Spades
Nov 6, 2007, 08:47 PM
Damn, don't you hate it when you lose something you've posted! SOrry, I can't quote whoever I was replying to.

To the person who thought the Tablet device need to be OSX compatible... NO.

When you create an OSX compatible (or WIndows compatible) tablet, what you get is a traditional laptop running traditional applications, but without a keyboard. The natural response for EVERY USER of such a tablet is "this would be great if it had a keyboard".

Apple needs to break people's expectations significantly if a Tablet is to be a real success. This sometimes means removing functionality it COULD have (clumsily), just to make sure that the device fits and defines a new paradigm. Apple can take what it's learned from Newton, iPhone, and MacBooks and come up with something new - the whole experience from the form to the apps on it (the apps should parallel with iPhone, of course).

As such... even if the Tablet has PC power, I would predict that Apple will either not allow 3rd party apps or will enforce rigorous interface guidelines and simply not allow 'desktop' class applications. They have to break the paradigm and they have all the pieces to do it.

The idea of having the desktop version of OS X is to have all of the frameworks that come with it. You don't need to cripple the OS in order to change the interface. But if you really want people to not use a keyboard, you can't simply take it away from them. You have to replace it with something better. Unless you have some brilliant idea you're not telling us, the keyboard remains the most efficient way to input text.

Furthermore, there is no purpose to specializing what is basically a computer. Despite constant predictions that general purpose computers are dying, nothing has appeared to replace them. Why? You need a reason to give up the flexibility. The only reasons that currently exist to do that are to get performance or portability; in other words the only successful special purpose computers have been game consoles (performance), super computers (performance), and PDAs (portability). Even then, the game console and super computer realms have their share of technology in common with general purpose computers. (Some super computers are just clusters of general purpose computers. The XBox was a PC.) And now portability no longer means giving up flexibility. The days of specialized PDA platforms are over. (The iPhone is part of changing that. The iPhone is OS X. It is Unix. Even if Apple is trying to hide it, it is still running a general purpose OS.)

So you say the tablet can't use OS X because it will reduce the experience, yet you then say that in order to be successful the tablet has to have a reduced experience. Ridiculous.

GregA
Nov 6, 2007, 09:30 PM
The idea of having the desktop version of OS X is to have all of the frameworks that come with it. You don't need to cripple the OS in order to change the interface. But if you really want people to not use a keyboard, you can't simply take it away from them. You have to replace it with something better. Unless you have some brilliant idea you're not telling us, the keyboard remains the most efficient way to input text.

It's the same reason Apple took away the Function Keys when the Mac came out. They wanted to break the old habitual ways of doing things, in order to get another way going. For those trained... the Function keys were a much more efficient way... the mouse & menus wasn't BETTER per se... until you looked at the big picture.

Furthermore, there is no purpose to specializing what is basically a computer. Despite constant predictions that general purpose computers are dying, nothing has appeared to replace them. Why? You need a reason to give up the flexibility.
Absolutely, flexibility is very useful. So why do you think Apple didn't have function keys AND the mouse... so that the traditionalists and the newcomers could both be happy... eh??

Ultimately, it is difficult to make a change in people (which is my work)... and if you give people choice they will do it the familiar way because familiar is easier in the short term. I'm pleased that Apple isn't afraid to break with the past though... despite the grumbles it generates.

And now portability no longer means giving up flexibility. The days of specialized PDA platforms are over. (The iPhone is part of changing that. The iPhone is OS X. It is Unix. Even if Apple is trying to hide it, it is still running a general purpose OS.)
In terms of you as a user - in what practical terms is it OSX?

Portable systems are increasingly powerful, and that power will be needed for the next generation of user experience. I'm just arguing that in order to make a keyboardless device, Apple doesn't need to invent a better keyboard, they need to break our habits and show alternative ways of meeting our needs (existing needs and needs we didn't know we had).

(edit: I'm not saying an absolute replacement for a keyboard ... but a reduction in the keyboard's importance and role such that the new system + pseudo-keyboard is more effective than the old system + real keyboard for the tasks you use it for).

So you say the tablet can't use OS X because it will reduce the experience, yet you then say that in order to be successful the tablet has to have a reduced experience. Ridiculous.Nice deletion of my argument :)

I say the tablet can't run OSX applications because it will then be used as if it is a laptop (...people would rather have a laptop for that, and a tablet would be a flop). In order to be successful the tablet needs to have a re-invented user experience.

Be careful of thinking that "removing a keyboard" (and technology which needs it) is the same as "reducing user experience".

Clive At Five
Nov 6, 2007, 10:02 PM
Whose reality are we stepping away from? And are you really moving away from it or towards it? What's "quantum" about Quantum Physics anyhow?

Quantum Physics deals with discrete levels of energy, my friend. Particles (which act as waves on small scales) can only exist in a certain states, the quantity of which is described as a "countable infinity." In large-scale physics, object's energy can be any real number (an uncountable infinity).

-Clive

MacPhilosopher
Nov 6, 2007, 10:07 PM
I need to make a few fixes here... My comments in Bold.



Welcome to reality.

-Clive

Thank you, Clive! Every time there is a rumor like this there is a grocery list produced with the most ridiculous, fantastical wants and desires. Thank you for doing a point by point reply. Simplify, simplify, simplify. A tablet should be minimalist with the opportunity to add peripherals through cables (USB, Firewire) or wireless (Bluetooth, WI-FI). Adding all of the hardware into the tablet or ultra-portable would only makes it more expensive and larger. Even a hardware keyboard can be optional with a tablet. Make it capable to use as a smart wacom-like tablet and/or slave drive on other systems and you add to its value. None of these things call for any thing other than software additions. This is the route Apple has taken with the iPhone, so why wouldn't they do so with future products. iPhones and their offspring will soon become remote controllers/gauges/testing devices/sensing devices etc. None of this should require any physical mod to the device, only software and any external piece plugged into the iPhone or using its wireless abilities. Okay, you see, there I go making a fantastical list. We are all capable of losing control;)

wizard
Nov 6, 2007, 11:59 PM
Okay, it's becoming clear to me that you're still thinking within the iPhone box. You're actually looking for a next-gen iPhone... Not a tablet as I'm sure most of us are thinking.

No not exactly. I'm looking fro apple to produce a family of devices, the current IPhone filing one postion in that family . What I'm looking for is something a little bigger that can more effectively compete against something like Nokia's N800. I would fully expect this family to also have a larger machine that doesn't fit the pocket.


That being said, iPhone doesn't (physically) have that much room to grow, therefore you'll have to use the existing form-factor.

Sure it does. As long as the result fits into a pocket it will fulfill the need.

720 X 480 resolution on a 3.5" display = 250 PPI. Even, if anyone has developed a 250 PPI display, it sure as hell isn't in production, much less anywhere near affordable to the average consumer.

I'm thinking about display that would be about 4 to 4.5 inches. Yeah not a huge increase in size but doable with todays technology.


Sure the vision you described for your iPhone Plus *could* be realized within two years, it won't be even remotely affordable for twice that time.

I still don't understand this attitude the stuff is coming on line real soon. Now that doesn't mean we get all of it but I think you will be surprised with what your smart phone dollar will buy you the same time as now next year.

In any event try: http://www.pmptoday.com/?s=venus for one example of a video device in this class. Look up Sony Walkmans and other Personal Media Players for other examples. I believe the LCD is the least of our worries. I'm actually surprised that Apple hasn't been more aggressive in getting into true HD play back on its I devices.


Can we go back to talking about tablets again, now?

Err this is one variant of the tablet touch family. The target is devices like nokias N800. In any event I'd expect exactly the same interface as we currently have.

-Clive
Dave

vale4606
Nov 7, 2007, 02:24 AM
My personal opinion is that I'd like a tablet Mac about the size of a conventional hardback book. While the display may be a bit small for the kind of computing some may desire, the ability to use it as both an ebook reader as well as a comfortably-sized easy to use PDA would be superior. The drawback with most PDAs has been their small size and limited useability as anything more than a simple note-taker and now, for some, phone. On the other hand, something big enough to actually write/type on that doesn't force using txt messaging (I mn, hoo lks tryng 2 dcfr txt anwy?) and read a novel without having to hold the thing up to your nose and scroll every few lines would be a major convenience!

I hope it's true, and I hope they size it to be a true innovation rather than a repackaging of someone else's product.

I agree with you sentiments regarding an ebook reader. This is another market which is serious lacking in any quality offerings. The U.S book publishing industry had net sales of $24.2 billion in 2006. E-books saw a 24.1% increase in 2006 at $54 million, with a compound growth rate of 65% since 2002. To me it parallels the music industry before you know who came along and gave the public an ecosystem that was easily understood and reasonably priced. This would slot in nicely with the existing offerings on the iTunes store. Sony has their somesuchorwhatever and there's that other company with their thingamawhatsit. No one really knows or cares what these guys are doing. Apple please change the game again!

What I do know is, if I have an iPhone, I don't need something 1.5x the iPhone. A sub notebook with a 10" screen is portable and considering whatever the tablet device is, it won't fit inside anyones pocket why wouldn't an ultrathin subnotebook do the job?

fiftydollarshoe
Nov 7, 2007, 05:50 AM
good comments; I think the laptop is the worst invention in the last 20 years.... just plain awful. It’s not really portable, they weight too much and are difficult to use........ the entire concept needs to be reinvented... I think it starts here and we shouldn’t look to the traditional tablet or laptop as a guide to what we may see come January or beyond....

I agree with you sentiments regarding an ebook reader. This is another market which is serious lacking in any quality offerings. The U.S book publishing industry had net sales of $24.2 billion in 2006. E-books saw a 24.1% increase in 2006 at $54 million, with a compound growth rate of 65% since 2002. To me it parallels the music industry before you know who came along and gave the public an ecosystem that was easily understood and reasonably priced. This would slot in nicely with the existing offerings on the iTunes store. Sony has their somesuchorwhatever and there's that other company with their thingamawhatsit. No one really knows or cares what these guys are doing. Apple please change the game again!

What I do know is, if I have an iPhone, I don't need something 1.5x the iPhone. A sub notebook with a 10" screen is portable and considering whatever the tablet device is, it won't fit inside anyones pocket why wouldn't an ultrathin subnotebook do the job?

pepinillo2012
Nov 7, 2007, 06:39 AM
The photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98144406@N00/1890085378/

The vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHgZNYM42E

nimbuscloud
Nov 7, 2007, 07:04 AM
After reading 80% of the "wants" on this thread, I see why NONE of you work at Apple and why you ALWAYS get mad at new Apple products.

You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.

:apple:

Clive At Five
Nov 7, 2007, 07:15 AM
DISREGARD:

The photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98144406@N00/1890085378/

The vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHgZNYM42E

Dude. You already posted that and they were called fake. Stop spamming.

@ Wizard: I honestly don't think you'll find many people here who will stick up for you. There just isn't room for different-sized iPhones. Your vision of the iPhone "Family" is not only unrealistic (though you fail to see it) but it's very non-Apple. The iPhone as we know it today may only be one product, but that one product will fill a large spectrum of Apple's lineup and for simplicity's sake, Apple will only keep 1 or 2 models... the greatest variation in you'll see in the said models is capacity... *maybe* in the near future the option of having 3G, though I believe Apple will convert the whole line to 3G all at once.

-Clive

shamino
Nov 7, 2007, 09:21 AM
Touch Screens are the direction we are heading. A Touch Screen portable would be the first step to a touch screen desktop.
I hope not. A touch-screen desktop would be really annoying to use.

Don't believe me? Try holding your hands up against your desktop's display, in the manner you would if you were trying to write on it. You'll find your wrists in pain after only a few minutes of this.

A large-scale touch system can only work comfortably if it lies flat across your desk, or if it is built-in to your desk. I don't have enough free space on my desk right now, without having to clear out enough space to put a display flat across it.

Yes, I've seen Minority Report. It looks real cool, but can you see yourself actually doing your job like that - always standing up, and having to swing your arms around in order to manipulate the on-screen objects?
MACBOOK TOUCH NECESSITIES
(snip)
So you provide a laundry list of features that would cost over $4000 in a laptop and may not be possible without a desktop form factor. And then you want it packed with 8 hours worth of battery, but small enough and light enough that it can be carried around like a phone.

Are you aware that Apple can't manufacture devices using Toon physics?
My wife's 15" Dell seems absurdly big, but my moms 17" HP is like a paving stone. It's bigger than a cafeteria tray! Jeebus H. Crickets, I just don't get why people want to carry a huge monitor around with them.
If you really don't get it, then you obviously don't understand the market well enough to design products for it. The fact is that lots of people buy these laptops, whether or not you can understand why.

The fact is, lots of laptop owners aren't interested in computing from their laps in the car/bus/train/plane. A lot of them want a full-blown desktop system that is self-contained enough that they can carry it between home and the office (and remote office sites). That isn't going to happen with a 12" laptop and a bunch of external monitors, unless you have enough money to buy extra monitors to leave lying around every place you have to work from.

I know several people who would ideally want something like a 24" iMac that they can easily transport between work sites (several times a day), and end up having to settle for a 17" laptop (with the same 1920x1200 resolution) instead.

renault4
Nov 7, 2007, 10:16 AM
I use both apple and tablet products. In general, I use a tablet as an adjunct to my desktop, not as a replacement, and I suggest that this the market segment that Apple may need to target if they are to succeed.

The tablet (a Motion Computing LE1700 "slate" style unit) functions as my daily management tool; I take all notes as straight handwriting, only worrying about conversion when I need it for specific purposes. I am usually connected via wireless, but have a backup cellular data card. I run standard email and web-browsing packages. I particularly like the "low profile" nature of the slate; one can take notes at a meeting much more naturally than clacking on a keyboard with a screen between you and the speaker (or, you can do other stuff if you are bored and "look" like you are taking notes!). I use handwriting recognition when handling email, it's fine for getting a quick reply back (and the recognition has gotten a lot better), but not for any significant text composition, for that, I would defer to my desktop or just dock the slate with a keyboard. All of my navigation is done with a pen, but a finger could accomplish the same. Thus it is possible to survive the day without keyboard (I do have about 8hrs battery), yet I would never consider this a replacement for my desktop, though, to be fair, a number of my colleagues do exactly that. It is also a great presentation tool; being able to "draw" or write on your slide is a very useful attention-keeper!

There is in my mind, huge room for improvement in the user interface, and if the iPhone-to-smartphone experience is any indicator (and I have used both), we are in for a fun ride if (and that's a big if) Apple takes on the tablet world.
With the iPhone, Apple successfully eschewed the use of a pen/stylus, if they stay true to that philosophy, it will be intriguing to see how (or if) they address those functions that, to date have required the use of a pen.

MattInOz
Nov 7, 2007, 02:07 PM
I hope not. A touch-screen desktop would be really annoying to use.

Don't believe me? Try holding your hands up against your desktop's display, in the manner you would if you were trying to write on it. You'll find your wrists in pain after only a few minutes of this.

A large-scale touch system can only work comfortably if it lies flat across your desk, or if it is built-in to your desk. I don't have enough free space on my desk right now, without having to clear out enough space to put a display flat across it.

Yes, I've seen Minority Report. It looks real cool, but can you see yourself actually doing your job like that - always standing up, and having to swing your arms around in order to manipulate the on-screen objects?
So you provide a laundry list of features that would cost over $4000 in a laptop and may not be possible without a desktop form factor. And then you want it packed with 8 hours worth of battery, but small enough and light enough that it can be carried around like a phone.

Are you aware that Apple can't manufacture devices using Toon physics?
If you really don't get it, then you obviously don't understand the market well enough to design products for it. The fact is that lots of people buy these laptops, whether or not you can understand why.

The fact is, lots of laptop owners aren't interested in computing from their laps in the car/bus/train/plane. A lot of them want a full-blown desktop system that is self-contained enough that they can carry it between home and the office (and remote office sites). That isn't going to happen with a 12" laptop and a bunch of external monitors, unless you have enough money to buy extra monitors to leave lying around every place you have to work from.

I know several people who would ideally want something like a 24" iMac that they can easily transport between work sites (several times a day), and end up having to settle for a 17" laptop (with the same 1920x1200 resolution) instead.

Then those people should buy and iMac and one of the those zip up bags you can buy. No doudt they would have a bag of some sort for the laptop anyway, to put the mouse and power brick in, adding the keyboard as well is not really much harder.

iansilv
Nov 7, 2007, 03:36 PM
Could this be the mac nano that was described as a replacement for the mac mini? Think about it- tablet based, sits in a dock or on a desk, magnetic power connector like the mbp, with a slot for loading a disk on the back. Monitor connects to the dock, or the dock can sit at your desk and give you a 5-7" screen at 800 by 600. Not too farf etched I say- look at some stuff nokia is doing already. The difference is that this would be a full-fledged mac that would run leopard.

Tara Davis
Nov 7, 2007, 03:40 PM
For all its faults, the good ol' QWERTY keyboard is still the easiest way to quickly enter data into a computer.

Until somebody invents something that works ***BETTER*** than a keyboard, I will always want one attached to any computer I own.

I'd love to see a 9" widescreen MacBook mini. To me, the "dream" portable computer would essentially be an iPhone on steroids:

1. Full-size keyboard.
2. 160 GB hard drive (minimum)
3. WiFi, Bluetooth, USB2, Ethernet (maybe FW, if there's room) (SD? Why not just plug in the camera? Or get Sony to make a camera with Bluetooth?)
4. GSM SIM card slot, allowing phone use even when the laptop is asleep
5. GPS with integrated map
6. Screen big enough to use for most web sites, but small enough that the laptop is no longer or wider than the keyboard & a small trackpad

A device like this would replace my laptop (which has already replaced my desktop), my phone, my iPod, my PSP, my GPS and my road atlas.

It would be so useful, that I would probably permanently keep my car keys and all my wallet contents in the case's side-pouch, since I would never, ever, go anywhere without it.

Oh, btw, optical media is already almost completely obsolete. A $30 external drive in a drawer at home for the very rare cases when one is needed would be more than enough to keep me happy. Space, cost, and power requirements can be saved by having no DVD or CD. Apple is probably the only company with the guts to drop something like that off their design.

iansilv
Nov 7, 2007, 03:43 PM
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi_menuItemID=887566059a3aedb6efaaa9e27a808a0c&ndmViewId=news_view&ndmConfigId=1000017&newsId=20071104005059&newsLang=en

I think Samsung's new faster 64gb drives could have something to do with this tablet...

t0mat0
Nov 7, 2007, 03:50 PM
I see why NONE of you work at Apple and why you ALWAYS get made at new Apple products.

You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.
:apple:

Reminds me of a comedy show, where one of their punchlines was

You want the moon on a stick...

Tara Davis
Nov 7, 2007, 03:52 PM
Damn, don't you hate it when you lose something you've posted! SOrry, I can't quote whoever I was replying to.

To the person who thought the Tablet device need to be OSX compatible... NO.

When you create an OSX compatible (or WIndows compatible) tablet, what you get is a traditional laptop running traditional applications, but without a keyboard. The natural response for EVERY USER of such a tablet is "this would be great if it had a keyboard".

Apple needs to break people's expectations significantly if a Tablet is to be a real success. This sometimes means removing functionality it COULD have (clumsily), just to make sure that the device fits and defines a new paradigm. Apple can take what it's learned from Newton, iPhone, and MacBooks and come up with something new - the whole experience from the form to the apps on it (the apps should parallel with iPhone, of course).

As such... even if the Tablet has PC power, I would predict that Apple will either not allow 3rd party apps or will enforce rigorous interface guidelines and simply not allow 'desktop' class applications. They have to break the paradigm and they have all the pieces to do it.

Ooo... You were so close to realizing a major point:

EVERY tablet that has ever been tried has failed.

And the main reason they failed: because they would have been pretty good computers, for want of a keyboard.

Meanwhile, laptop sales have skyrocketed over the last couple years. Why? because they can do pretty much everything a desktop computer can do and more. Why? Well, a big part of it is they have this extremely useful input device, called a "keyboard", attached to them.

The ultimate Tablet PC already exists. It's called a laptop.

GregA
Nov 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
Try holding your hands up against your desktop's display, in the manner you would if you were trying to write on it. You'll find your wrists in pain after only a few minutes of this.

A large-scale touch system can only work comfortably if it lies flat across your desk, or if it is built-in to your desk.

I do agree that it'd be a pain, and yet I think there is scope for a useful touch interface. If Apple was to devise a touch screen iMac, they'd really have to make a prototype and watch how people use it, make a new one and watch,... and repeat. They'd learn alot, I'd say the 4th generation of prototypes would be a far cry from the 1st generation.

If you simply added the interface to existing laptops and iMacs, it may still get use... for a few years now we've cut off our natural instinct to point to what we're interested in and substituted it for a mouse or track pad... and offering both could have some positive effects. Especially when 2 people are looking at once since both can touch things.

I know several people who would ideally want something like a 24" iMac that they can easily transport between work sites (several times a day), and end up having to settle for a 17" laptop instead.

Yeah I think this need is underestimated. The original Mac met this need really well, you could stuff it in the bag it came with, keyboard and mouse in the side pocket. And the first Mac Laptop wasn't called a laptop... it was called a 'portable'....(it was a little large!). The first flat screen iMac is almost that portable, but more breakable and not convenient.. though I imagine the recent 17" iMac is pretty close (no customised bag though!)

Then those people should buy and iMac and one of the those zip up bags you can buy. No doudt they would have a bag of some sort for the laptop anyway, to put the mouse and power brick in, adding the keyboard as well is not really much harder.A 24" iMac won't fit in their laptop bag :). Besides... those things are heavy! Not something to drag around. Even the 20" is too heavy... and if we're going back to a 17" then why not just have the 17" laptop?

GregA
Nov 7, 2007, 04:18 PM
Ooo... You were so close to realizing a major point:
EVERY tablet that has ever been tried has failed.
You think I missed that point?

And the main reason they failed: because they would have been pretty good computers, for want of a keyboard.
Ah.... maybe you have no idea what I was talking about?

If you basically take the keyboard off a great laptop, then you'll have a great laptop that needs a keyboard.

My point is that unless a tablet has an entirely different interaction method than a laptop (and a shift in purpose probably).... you'd be better off with the laptop. Apple has shown that it's about the only company in a position to force that kind of shift in usage... so if they DO do it their tablet play will be interesting to watch.

The ultimate Tablet PC already exists. It's called a laptop.

Can you explain why that's different to saying "the ultimate motorbike already exists. It's called a car."?

(edit/ps: I agree that if you need portability and a keyboard, get a laptop with a keyboard! In that sense why make a Laptop as there's no point trying to duplicate something that works with something less effective. HOWEVER, I'm stepping outside that square.)

Cloudane
Nov 7, 2007, 04:21 PM
Reminds me of a comedy show, where one of their punchlines was

You want the moon on a stick...

Ha I remember that, wasn't it that Vic and Bob thing.

I don't know... ideas *can* seem like dreams, but if anyone can put them into reality, Apple can. Just look at the iPhone. :apple:

iansilv
Nov 7, 2007, 04:31 PM
Why not have something that has the same input learning style keyboard that pops up like on the iphone? You could hold it in your hands and type with your hands- jus tlike an iphone. But it could connect to a monitor, and it could connect to a keyboard when you needed it to.

Catonow
Nov 7, 2007, 04:34 PM
If you want a full-sized keyboard (and for whatever it's worth, I do) in this shiny new tablet/ultraportable/notebook/thingie, then by my calculations it can't be smaller than 12 inches. Another consideration, as far as I'm concerned, is not just dimension but weight. I'd love a fully functional* notebook with a full-sized keyboard that weighs considerably less than 4 pounds. Every laptop currently made by Apple comes in at a hefty 5 pounds or more.

* Of course, the rub is, what does one mean by "fully functional"? In my humble view, it doesn't need to include a super or even combo drive, since I very rarely burn or even place CDs or DVDs in my laptop. (For those occasions when one must, there are cheap and plentiful external drives available.) From what I gather, this would free up a great deal of space (and mass) for other goodies, like decent computing and graphics power, which I'd gladly trade for the opportunity to burn DVDs on the fly. It's all about compromises and trade-offs. What do you need vs. what do you want vs. what is possible vs. price vs....

zarusoba
Nov 7, 2007, 05:05 PM
I hope not. A touch-screen desktop would be really annoying to use.

Don't believe me? Try holding your hands up against your desktop's display, in the manner you would if you were trying to write on it. You'll find your wrists in pain after only a few minutes of this.

A large-scale touch system can only work comfortably if it lies flat across your desk, or if it is built-in to your desk. I don't have enough free space on my desk right now, without having to clear out enough space to put a display flat across it.



You speak as if there are only two possible positions for the display of a touch-screen desktop.

In terms of comfort and posture, neither is ideal.

What is required is a display with a stand on it that allows the user to tilt the display to their desired angle.

zarusoba
Nov 7, 2007, 05:10 PM
After reading 80% of the "wants" on this thread, I see why NONE of you work at Apple and why you ALWAYS get mad at new Apple products.

You want the moon at the cost of cheese. STOP DREAMING.

:apple:

Yikes, you sound like that comic book shop geek from The Simpsons. Read your post to yourself in his voice and you'll get what I mean.

MattInOz
Nov 7, 2007, 05:28 PM
A 24" iMac won't fit in their laptop bag :). Besides... those things are heavy! Not something to drag around. Even the 20" is too heavy... and if we're going back to a 17" then why not just have the 17" laptop?

Oops i thought these guys did a bag for the 24.
http://www.ilugger.com/
Only the 20" and old 17".
Is a 20" laptop going to be any lighter and the trade off is the cooling system?

Ok so no wants to hold there hands up all day with a touch screen iMac.
We are talking Tablet here which would sit on the desk like a note pad.
Like a note pad it's a standalone tool that compliments others tools in the kit.
Sure you can type faster on a keyboard but that doesn't mean all devices need keyboards, if it did why do we still have notepads on our desk for those situations where keyboards either get in the way, or just unusable.

There are people who would be better off with no keyboard and a tablet. Those who's set up include a number of tools including a tablet device and a desktop / laptop or terminal and server farm.

I think tablets have failed to date because there designers are unwilling to draw a line in the sand say here is our device here is what it does well. If your needs are beyond that then pair it with another device that suits them well.

Well that and the tech to do them right is still 6-12months off.

iansilv
Nov 7, 2007, 05:48 PM
If it had a dock on a desk all the peripherals could plug in to it, you could carry it with you to your home, and dock it there. Or anywhere. and when it was not docked, you could just use your thumbs like on the iphone.

Tara Davis
Nov 7, 2007, 06:04 PM
You think I missed that point?


Ah.... maybe you have no idea what I was talking about?

If you basically take the keyboard off a great laptop, then you'll have a great laptop that needs a keyboard.

My point is that unless a tablet has an entirely different interaction method than a laptop (and a shift in purpose probably).... you'd be better off with the laptop. Apple has shown that it's about the only company in a position to force that kind of shift in usage... so if they DO do it their tablet play will be interesting to watch.



Can you explain why that's different to saying "the ultimate motorbike already exists. It's called a car."?

(edit/ps: I agree that if you need portability and a keyboard, get a laptop with a keyboard! In that sense why make a Laptop as there's no point trying to duplicate something that works with something less effective. HOWEVER, I'm stepping outside that square.)

You're still not getting it.

Regardless of WHAT the "interface" design is, if it's capable of computing and/or handling communication, I'm going to want to put English words into it, because I speak English.

A keyboard is still the best way to put words into a computer, regardless of form factor, design concept, OS, etc.

Call it a "device" all you like. Can I use it for text-based communication? Can I browse the web with it and post comments on this forum? Then it's a computer, and computers (at the moment) need some way to enter English letters into them to realize their potential usefulness. So far, the keyboard has not been surpassed by any other system as the best way to do so.

The only compelling reason to leave a keyboard off a computer is to save space... and that's all well and good, but so far nobody has come up with anything smaller than a keyboard that works just as well.

ajagor92
Nov 7, 2007, 07:35 PM
Although probably not realistic in the near future, I would love to have a touch screen tablet that also offers the advantages of having a full QWERTY keyboard. It would pop up, such as that of the iPhone's, but the user would have the ability to adjust key size & spacing. Better yet, the computer would recognize how you type and adjust keys accordingly.

Maybe that's the future of keyboards? If it is, that would be awesome.

MacPhilosopher
Nov 7, 2007, 07:37 PM
If you really don't get it, then you obviously don't understand the market well enough to design products for it. The fact is that lots of people buy these laptops, whether or not you can understand why.

The fact is, lots of laptop owners aren't interested in computing from their laps in the car/bus/train/plane. A lot of them want a full-blown desktop system that is self-contained enough that they can carry it between home and the office (and remote office sites). That isn't going to happen with a 12" laptop and a bunch of external monitors, unless you have enough money to buy extra monitors to leave lying around every place you have to work from.

I know several people who would ideally want something like a 24" iMac that they can easily transport between work sites (several times a day), and end up having to settle for a 17" laptop (with the same 1920x1200 resolution) instead.

I agree with you that there is a market for these desktop-confused-laptops. I believe that many people are looking for that perfect blend. I cannot take that desire (or foolishness) away from them. I just think their reasoning is flawed. Sure, a portable just means you can move it around. Given that, my 20-inch iMac is a portable. They even make bags for them. Some of those laptops are just under my iMacs size and weight (just kidding about the weight). As I said in a previous post. There is an optimal size-to-usability ratio for laptops. I would say that Apple, Sony and other companies have found that. As for the bigger laptops, including the 17" MacBook Pro, they are way outside of the norm. The 12" and subs are past optimum, but my 12" G4 Powerbook is still capable of 95% of what any large notebook, or 90% of most desktops, can do while still being comfortable to use. I would say its limitations are in screen readability for some persons. Sure is nice to carry around an airport or campus, too.

MattInOz
Nov 7, 2007, 08:06 PM
oops, double post

MattInOz
Nov 7, 2007, 08:13 PM
You're still not getting it.

The only compelling reason to leave a keyboard off a computer is to save space... and that's all well and good, but so far nobody has come up with anything smaller than a keyboard that works just as well.


Then buy a laptop, a small 12" one would be great in apples range.
But that is a very different thing, add a keyboard it's a laptop, your working on a different set of assumptions

A lot of people yes still enter english language into a computer but do so in positions that a keyboard, not matter how fast it is sitting down, is completely useless. These people want a device thats design isn't hampered by the assumption that you are sitting down. The name says it all "laptop".

The other assumption that Laptops are hampered by is that your main data is text. In a lot of cases that isn't true, look at iApps like iMovie, Garageband, iPhoto and there more professional counterparts. All could be more useful without the keyboard getting in the way. Apple gives you these apps to attract sales of hardware. So no real question of market.

These are the compelling reasons to build a device that works to a different set of assumptions, now the option are either
a)include Hampered keyboard that takes up space, or
b) allow it pair with the users choice of keyboards if it standalone or with another computer if part of a tool box of computers.

I prefer b, i'm also guessing you wouldn't be in the target market for the device either.

edit: should have added c) onscreen input, with could be two hand keyboard, one hand keyboard, hand writing or gesture( i wonder if a touch screen could understand sign language).
Still b and c offer a better product.

fafner
Nov 8, 2007, 04:03 AM
My rational for the iTAblet is described in post #78 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4452476&postcount=78).

But I need to add something, the iTablet will not be the only device a user have, you will combine it with a desktop or a laptop (for a business user propably both).

So when you come back from a meeting with your iTablet it will 'join' with your stationary computer. So you place the tablet in a stand where you can use the tablet as an extra monitor, the 'monitor' can also be used as a wireless Wacom tablet similar to the size of the Cintiq 12 WX (http://www.wacom.eu/index2.asp?lang=en&pid=96)(12” 1280x800 resolution).

They are of course two separate computers but their unique interfaces is shared (keyboard, mouse, multitouch etc).

I have used several Tablet PCs (Compaq, HP, Fujitsu) and for me a tablet with a keyboard is to much of a compromise, difficult to write on (to thick), to heavy and with a joint between keyboard and panel that is a real weak spot.

So for me the 1280x800 12” multitouch+Wacom devices (pressure, angle sensitivity possibility to use different types of pens airbruch etc…), iSight, 32-64G flashdrive and thickness as an iPhone would be ideal.

Cloudane
Nov 8, 2007, 04:49 AM
Regarding a keyboard, if not on-screen, I could see them building something like this in:

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/bt-vkb-en.shtml (virtual projected keyboard)

I much prefer the tactile feedback of a real keyboard, but the iPhone/Touch on-screen keyboard is proof that a virtual one can be made fairly reasonable to use if a bit of thought is put into the usability.

SkydiveGuy
Nov 8, 2007, 08:07 AM
at TechRepublic:

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=1505

shamino
Nov 8, 2007, 10:51 AM
For all its faults, the good ol' QWERTY keyboard is still the easiest way to quickly enter data into a computer.
Well, keyboards in general. The QWERTY layout, however, is known to be sub-optimal. It was actually designed to be slow (http://abckeyboard.co.uk/qwerty.htm) in order to keep the users from jamming the mechanisms of early typewriters.

Alternative layouts (like the Dvorak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard) layout) can produce faster typing speeds (when the typist is experienced with the layout, of course.)
I agree with you that there is a market for these desktop-confused-laptops. I believe that many people are looking for that perfect blend. I cannot take that desire (or foolishness) away from them. I just think their reasoning is flawed.
The desire to transport a computer with a desktop's power is unreasonable?

You may disagree on people's preferred solution to this problem, but to claim that there is never a need to easily transport a powerful computer is simply short-sighted.

I suppose you would want to have people committed for wanting to own one of these (http://global.acer.com/products/notebook/as9800.htm).

MacPhilosopher
Nov 8, 2007, 02:22 PM
The desire to transport a computer with a desktop's power is unreasonable?

You may disagree on people's preferred solution to this problem, but to claim that there is never a need to easily transport a powerful computer is simply short-sighted.

I suppose you would want to have people committed for wanting to own one of these (http://global.acer.com/products/notebook/as9800.htm).

I am only saying that their belief that size and power are necessarily linked is flawed. I never said there was no need to transport a powerful computer. I do everyday. As I said in earlier posts, my 12" G4 PB is a very powerful desktop. I can edit Final Cut Pro 6.0 with it. I regularly use it for heavy Photoshop and Illustrator editing. It has video out for a larger monitor and all the connections I need for external devices (okay, I would prefer another firewire port). It also uses 3-4 year old technology. Imagine what can be done today. The only reason I can see needing something the size of the Acer you linked to is the size of the monitor. Not the monitors bit-depth, but its physical dimensions. Those with sight limitations not correctable by eye-glasses are the only ones I can understand using large laptop monitors. As for every other basic feature in that laptop, drives are just as effective as external devices. Internals are plenty big enough for everything else. How many extra keys do you need on your board? Also, I never said people should be committed. I implied no mental disease, just foolishness and poor logic.

boss1
Nov 9, 2007, 01:51 PM
"Why buy a Microsoft touch table when you can put one in your pocket"

Btw, There are very little facts surrounding this device so what gives with so many people saying there's no market for it, or that its too big etc?

Orng
Nov 9, 2007, 03:22 PM
If you really don't get it, then you obviously don't understand the market well enough to design products for it. The fact is that lots of people buy these laptops, whether or not you can understand why.


Ohh, ya almost got me, except I don't design laptops for a living, so my pride escapes your slings and arrows intact! Ha ha!

I do, however, understand marketing. And I know that, if I were going to market a laptop that came with a 17" option, I would say that about 10-15% of the 17" buyers would actually need that option, and the other 85-90% of buyers only THINK they need that option, or just WANT that option. And maybe half or more of those think that size=power and that they need the perceived power. They'd be better off with an external monitor attached to a smaller laptop, or even just a desktop.

Half of them probably drive an SUV and freak out when the first snowflakes of the year hit their windshield every year - "Aah! Snow! What do I do?" I don't know, Stupid, what did you do all last winter? Why don't you look up winter driving on your obscenely large laptop, or do you need me to set up your wifi for you?

My original point, of course, was that it saddens me to see my own family members breaking their backs with a 17" HP when they could accomplish what they do for way less money and weight. It's pure vanity or misunderstanding or both, just like paying the $160 "look-at-me" tax for a black Macbook.

Virgil-TB2
Nov 9, 2007, 05:28 PM
... Seems like you are on a wholly different track then the rest of us. We are talking about a portable device or rather a family of such devices, where at least a couple of them fit into your pocket. The idea being to provide iPhone like functionality with support for a high resolution screen preferably sized right. The larger screen would provide a platform for the enhanced deliver of apps and multimedia especially movies.
... I don't see that what I said was vastly different from what you are describing, but the point of the thread was opinions anyway and that is my opinion such as it is. :)

If you are thinking of a traditional tablet computer though I think the odds are very much against Apple doing anything like that and I say that as someone who has *always* wanted a tablet computer.

There already is a "standard" tablet computer running OS-X. It's called the ModBook, and it fills a niche but is not selling gangbusters or anything. What would be the point of Apple re-inventing something that already exists?

In my experience, despite how smart we all are, most people get it completely wrong and are super surprised when Apple does eventually come out with a product that is usually not expected at all. I was thus trying to think "outside of the box" or whatever.

For portability I am hoping for the rumoured mini-laptop with NAND, or for an iPhone if they ever come to Canada and be reasonably priced. :rolleyes:

The tablet Mac as described so far by the leaks and rumours is only 1.5 the size of the iPhone, that's *tiny* if you think about it, but still far too big to fit in your pocket or be useful for typing on, creating documents etc. it is for those reasons that I do not believe that this will be the kind of device that many think it will be.

Do this experiment. Take a paperback novel the same size as the rumoured tablet and balance it on your lap. Now try some "air-typing" on it. Do you still think that a tablet Mac in the sense of a typical tablet computer of today is coming? :)

A small clamshell form-factor (as is rumoured for the "MacBook light") is much more efficient and useable for portable computing. The tablet will be something else IMO.

awmazz
Nov 9, 2007, 06:05 PM
There already is a "standard" tablet computer running OS-X. It's called the ModBook, and it fills a niche but is not selling gangbusters or anything. What would be the point of Apple re-inventing something that already exists?

Well, difficult to sell gangbusters when not selling any at all.

The latest news is early December release, after a multi-million investment by a Canadian venture capital company into Axiotron. I suspect the delay in release was actually due to the huge demand not capable of being met by such a small company without capital injection.

So somebody with a lot of money whose only job is to invest in future markets believes a tablet Mac is a viable proposition and has now put their money behind it. And that market starts with the crowds who gathered around the Modbook at Macworld where it was voted best product in show last January. And the market extends beyond that.

Including me. The only issue I face is the race between Apple and Axitron to which one delivers. I will wait for Apple first though - if Apple fails to add a stylus (eg, only multitouch) then my decision will be made to go with the Modbook.

PS: What I want and what I will pay good money as soon as it's released is a mobile Wacom Cintiq tablet so, as I mentioned, it needs a stylus. I'm simply not avant garde enough to want to paint and draw with Photoshop brushes and pens with my fingers. Full functionality for these three apps required - Photoshop, Painter & Illustrator.

awmazz
Nov 9, 2007, 06:28 PM
EVERY tablet that has ever been tried has failed.

Wacom tablets have never failed. They sell quite well actually. I have a 21UX in front of me right now. Paid a king's ransom for it and never regretted a cent of it. Brilliant equipment if you ask me. The only problem is they're deskbound by cabling.

So what you mean is a mobile tablet. But those have only ever been tried with Windows as the OS. Sarcasm mode on -> they have 'success' and 'market appeal' written all over them.

I'm not in the market for a Windows mobile tablet and never will be. Especially with an unsightly form factor of some of those I've seen. An ugly OS on an ugly machine is never going into my Christmas stocking. I AM in the market for an OSX mobile tablet though and have been for a while. There's only one reason I haven't bought one yet - they haven't made one yet.

shamino
Nov 11, 2007, 07:59 AM
I do, however, understand marketing. And I know that, if I were going to market a laptop that came with a 17" option, I would say that about 10-15% of the 17" buyers would actually need that option, and the other 85-90% of buyers only THINK they need that option, or just WANT that option. And maybe half or more of those think that size=power and that they need the perceived power. They'd be better off with an external monitor attached to a smaller laptop, or even just a desktop.
So your philosophy is "85% of my customers are idiots, so I'll try to force them to buy what I think they want instead of what they are willing to fork over tons of money for".

Gee, that sounds just like the attitude we all hate the record companies for, doesn't it? But I guess it's OK, when you are the one who thinks he knows what's best for the rest of the world.

EagerDragon
Nov 11, 2007, 12:35 PM
I can't believe the lack of imagination and the number of assumptions being made reference the keyboard.

People that spend their life using a keyboard and are fast at it, may find it very difficult to even conceive the idea of interacting with a computer without the possibility of a hardware keyboard.

Are you making money by being so negative?

Others here have also an opinion that at times may differ from yours and are creative types that would like the interface of the iPhone / Watcom board on a mobile device with more real state than the iPhone. These people do not plan to hang it on the wall and use their arms in weird positions that are only reasonable for a computer with a keyboard. They may only use a desk for short periods of time.

A tablet is a different system, you have to "think different". If you can't then it is not for you, say your quick piece about why it is not practical and why Apple will never make it and move on.

Apple does well at marketing devices, computers and other stuff that others with less imagination fail marketing. Apple is also not stupid and will not go thru the expense of creating and marketing a device that will not sell well.

Trying to sell pencils to a man with no hands is difficult, Apple targets devices at specific populations, they do not crete one-size fits all devices. Even the iPhone, as popular as it is, it is not made for everyone, some people buy it and complain all day for what it was not designed to do. It is illogical.

There is a population (however big) out there that will find an Apple tablet to be a God send, and a much larger majority that can not envision using one and have no need for one.

I can see how to use one, I know why I can use one.

Why are some of you telling us that we are stupid, that the iTablet is not practical? Have you really ponder and opened your mind or are you still stuck with the idea that it would not have a keyboard and that a virtual keyboard is not likely to have feedback? Have you looked pass the laptop, desk and wall?

It is clearly it is not for you, fine, move along.

Let us, that do have a need for one or simply want one as a nice bright toy, have our discussion. I am not saying don't comment, I am saying that it is a waste to get in a piss ass contest as to who is right.

bluedevils
Nov 12, 2007, 08:52 AM
Sorry if this was mentioned inbetween pages 2 and 7, but couldn't this fall under a newton ressurection?

If the UI is all apple goodness with excellent hand writting recognition, an open osx (unlike the current iphone) and affordable, it might sell. Though I think as far as portable computing goes for the masses, it would have to be an iphone/ipod intergrated device. People want to carry only one device for everything.

The intel tablets failed because they were little bang for the buck.

wizard
Nov 12, 2007, 01:54 PM
Sorry if this was mentioned inbetween pages 2 and 7, but couldn't this fall under a newton ressurection?

Sort of yes, in fact some have referred to the devices as such.


If the UI is all apple goodness with excellent hand writting recognition, an open osx (unlike the current iphone) and affordable, it might sell. Though I think as far as portable computing goes for the masses, it would have to be an iphone/ipod intergrated device. People want to carry only one device for everything.

I've mentioned as such. In fact a bigger iPhone is often on my mind. I do believe there is a market for devices without the Cell capability though. From my perespective the portable device just needs to fit in a pocket but maximize the screen size and resolution. that and of course hav ehe open software platform so the app of you choice can be installed.


The intel tablets failed because they were little bang for the buck.

I don't think they failed so much as have been eclipsed by Cell technology. The things they got used for are often found wrapped in a Cell phone. At the same time Cell phones where becoming a required item in everyones pocket technology marched forward and the Intel tablets didn't. Or at least they didn't become more capable fast enough.

As far as capable goes I believe one important item here is WiFi. Having this built in and well integrated with the rest of the software is a key element. The other thing is the idea of massive secondary storage. Well massive for a pocketable device, it is no surprise that Apple stuffs as much flash into its devices as is affordable with the current technology. It could be argued that Apple focuses on flash to the expense of other capabilities. Apple could do well in the tablet category if they simply filled in the the thin spots on their devices.

In any event my desire to see a tablet device should not be construed to mean that I don't expect to see a market for larger devices. I believe that market exist also. Potentially we could see a whole family of devices, with the current iPhone at the bottom of the heap. I would expect each of these devices to have WiFi but also alternative RF communications (cell or WiMax) options.

wizard
Nov 12, 2007, 02:21 PM
I can't believe the lack of imagination and the number of assumptions being made reference the keyboard.

It is actually easy to understand. Spend a little time out in the work place and you will soon find out how stupid the population in general is.


People that spend their life using a keyboard and are fast at it, may find it very difficult to even conceive the idea of interacting with a computer without the possibility of a hardware keyboard.

Until voice recognition comes along or really good hand writting recognition the key board is likely to remain the best input device for humans. The problem is that many people don't seem to grasp that many of the uses for these sorts of hand held devices don't need a lot of data input, that Bluetooth exists, or the alternative is worst.



Are you making money by being so negative?

Others here have also an opinion that at times may differ from yours and are creative types that would like the interface of the iPhone / Watcom board on a mobile device with more real state than the iPhone. These people do not plan to hang it on the wall and use their arms in weird positions that are only reasonable for a computer with a keyboard. They may only use a desk for short periods of time.

In my case I believe there will be a whole family of devices! Personally my interest right now is in a larger pocketable iPhone. This is very doable and frankly only needs one to look at the Touch to see how even a slightly better screen improves things.

I'm pretty much in the camp of one thing should do everything category. Thus the desire for a derivation based on iPhone.


A tablet is a different system, you have to "think different". If you can't then it is not for you, say your quick piece about why it is not practical and why Apple will never make it and move on.

I think this is key. If it is not for you and you can't grasp why people would need it then go some place else.


Apple does well at marketing devices, computers and other stuff that others with less imagination fail marketing. Apple is also not stupid and will not go thru the expense of creating and marketing a device that will not sell well.

Well I won't mention failed Apple products. The point is they can get it wrong. Or they can get it so close that people really get frustrated (Touch & even iPhone). Frustrated customers aren't good either but at least they are moving in the right direction.


Trying to sell pencils to a man with no hands is difficult, Apple targets devices at specific populations, they do not crete one-size fits all devices. Even the iPhone, as popular as it is, it is not made for everyone, some people buy it and complain all day for what it was not designed to do. It is illogical.

Or we don't buy in and complain all day long. Of course the idea here is that we hope Apple is listening. That is they take customer opinions, wants and desires into account when coming up with new feature sets.


There is a population (however big) out there that will find an Apple tablet to be a God send, and a much larger majority that can not envision using one and have no need for one.

A useful device sure. Done right though and I can see a very high adoption rate.


I can see how to use one, I know why I can use one.

I certainly can see such a use now, the missing element is the software included on Apples current devices. The obvious hope is that this will be rectified soon. In a sense it has been rectified by hackers but I'm really am expecting a solution from Apple.

What may that solution be you may ask? Simple; we need access to the file system so that I can view PDF's and HTML files locally.


Why are some of you telling us that we are stupid, that the iTablet is not practical? Have you really ponder and opened your mind or are you still stuck with the idea that it would not have a keyboard and that a virtual keyboard is not likely to have feedback? Have you looked pass the laptop, desk and wall?

Obviously not.


It is clearly it is not for you, fine, move along.

Let us, that do have a need for one or simply want one as a nice bright toy, have our discussion. I am not saying don't comment, I am saying that it is a waste to get in a piss ass contest as to who is right.
Well right or wrong I'm not one to get to bent out of shape over those that don't get it. Frankly though I think these people that don't get it need to grasp an iPod Touch in their hands and imagine the capabilities of he device with a few more features thrown in. The fact is that people do make use of devices of this sort as BlackBerry (RIM) and a number of other manufactures have shown. In many cases the search is simply for a better platform than currently exists.

Fargomac
Nov 12, 2007, 03:24 PM
Well, i may be a little out of er,touch (sic) on the thread, but is it possible the keyboard on the macbook would be just like the iphone/itouch screen technology. The laptop screen would stay the same, we would just lose the silver keys - replaced by smooth plastic/glass whatever it is.
Then this would open the keyboard up to all sorts of applications, keyboard for usual typing etc, Logic Studio: Mixing Faders & Piano keys, possible stylus pen use as well like wacom for Adobe etc or even ink...??

Just a thought, i presume someones already thought of this.:confused:

Thanks.

whidbeyben
Dec 6, 2007, 01:06 AM
While patiently awaiting a replacement for my 12" PB G4, I keep running across rumors of a Mac Tablet. Why would anyone want a tablet, unless they were a UPS delivery guy or some sales representative who had to gather signatures? Then when hefting my son's textbook laden 30 pound backpack out of the back of my car, it dawned on me. Apple needs to create the iText.

Imagine using Apple's content negotiating savvy with text book publishers like they currently work with the music and video content industries. In this case, working out mega deals with school districts and universities worldwide for textbooks with live links to constantly updated content. Textbook publishers would have an outlet for copyright protected content while no longer having to go through the expense of hardback publishing and distribution. The revenue sharing possibilities would inject Apple with cash just like the iPod universe has done.

E-books have been done (see Amazon's Kindle), but they're lame because they don't offer any advantage over purchasing a $1.99 paperback that can fit in your back pocket. But with text books, this opens a whole new world of possibilities.

I was just joking with my daughter that it was too bad she couldn't Google her American History text book to find out what significant event occurred in the middle colonies in the mid 1600's. Imagine using a touch interface to zoom in on graphs and multimedia content, or to pull up an instant reference, Google search, or dictionary citation. Flipping through pages would be a natural application for a touch interface and notepad (iText). There is no inherent need for a keyboard to use a textbook reference. This is the perfect killer app for multitouch.

Swapping 30 pounds of hardback texts for a sleek 1 pound tablet would be a no-brainer. Built-in WiFi and bluetooth would enable teachers to send e-mail homework assignments, checklists, and (Apple iBoard) notes, while also enabling students to submit classroom assignments and tests wirelessly. In addition to the touch interface, they could use bluetooth keyboards, or have keyboards built into their school desks that the iText would dock into to charge. The market for this would be huge. Unlike most notepads, which target a very small sales force/delivery/healthcare market, this could mean a iText for every single public school student in the country. Can you imagine the power of having your product in the hands of all those kids?

More importantly, this would be a whole new paradigm, just like the iPod was when it first hit the streets. Let's get Apple back into the education market big time. I'm hoping Steve Jobs and the folks at Apple are way ahead of me on this one. If not, they had better get busting before Bill figures this one out. I'm hoping to see both a Mac Tablet with iTextbook universe, as well as a new 12" MBP.

Macaroni Joe
Dec 10, 2007, 12:45 PM
Another prediction from Apple employee number 12. Me thinks they could dominate the entire industry for the next 20 years (how old is Steve anyway?).

I don't know if they will have the tablet, but I do know that it has the potential of being "insanely great". http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20071207_003573.html

Ukijima
Dec 19, 2007, 01:30 PM
I highly doubt the validity of this rumor since Leopard's handwriting recognition pretty much sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCHqMENtKkA

Apple has long way to go with their handwriting recognition before they attempt a tablet.

t0mat0
Dec 29, 2007, 07:42 AM
I'll keep it brief, as a longer post is on another thread, but my thought was

What if they're bringing out a touch sensitive mouse pad/digital palette style interface with glass front, screen underneath, 4-5mm thick that you can use as wel as a mouse and keyboard? The whole problem with touch screens is that you get your main monitor messy. What if you use the mouse mat you rest your palm on to se a mouse, to be touch sensitive. Move your wrist slightly, then interact with the multitouch sensitive pad? Think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIxf3ndi34E

psychofreak
Dec 29, 2007, 08:10 AM
I highly doubt the validity of this rumor since Leopard's handwriting recognition pretty much sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCHqMENtKkA

Apple has long way to go with their handwriting recognition before they attempt a tablet.

The Newton was renowned for having great handwriting recognition, so I think Apple could pull that off. However, as Steve said, the finger not the stylus is the way forward so it would not be necessary.

AidenShaw
Dec 29, 2007, 08:40 AM
However, as Steve said, the finger not the stylus is the way forward so it would not be necessary.

The Steve has also said that optical drives don't work right when mounted vertically, and he believes that a mouse should only have one button -- so we can dismiss him as a crazy fanatic at times.

I find stylus input (on Windows Mobile phones and PDAs) to be much more precise and functional than finger input (on the Ipod Touch).

On the Ipod, the screen elements have to be really large, and even then your finger hits several of them at once, so the software makes a guess (often wrong) about which element you meant to select.

jacktiernan
Dec 30, 2007, 07:05 PM
Well, this discussion is very interesting, and all the varying opinions of if it exists/what it might be makes me realise that i actually love everything apple has done in the last 5 years... and i can't see why this would be any different.

I trust that if apple makes a tablet, it will be clever, intuitive and well thought-out.

Go apple! Yays!

t0mat0
Dec 30, 2007, 07:31 PM
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3584/attempt2fl4.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attempt2fl4.jpg)
? Dont need an iMac obviously, and could just use the processing power of a tablet to run a normal screen.

eric55lv
Dec 30, 2007, 10:17 PM
I rember that Apple introduced the iPad but there was nothing so maybe the iPad may come back it said that it was a preview of it or something like that

Cooknn
Jan 3, 2008, 02:37 PM
Make it Wacom-enabled and about $1000 less than a Modbook, (http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook) and my wife will become a Switcher....And I'll be a buyer. I do a lot of digital painting and this would be a dream. But only if it is Wacom Penabled ;)

tc95
Jan 17, 2008, 04:11 AM
The picture that you see there at the front is of the ModBook....you can actually get it....I have a friend that purchased one and the touch screen is great...better than any windows laptop...but nowhere near the iPhone though...

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook

Have fun....

law guy
Jan 18, 2008, 12:42 AM
http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/mw07_mb02.jpg


http://www.axiotron.com/uploads/pics/Home_20071231_NowShipping_new.png
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more modbook discussion on this site. Ars has been publishing stories since last MacWorld. The CEO was a former Apple guy - involved with the Newton and the company has a formal arrangement with Apple. As the company notes on its website http://www.axiotron.com/, the Modbook is now shipping Interesting stuff.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/01/surprise-modbook-gets-an-early-ship-date-for-2008?rel
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080117-macworld-ars-modbook-not-destined-to-become-light-as-air.html

...and it has built-in GPS: Global Positioning System
The Modbook is the only portable Mac solution that features a built-in Global Positioning System (GPS). The Axiotron Modbook GPS Module is based on the industry leading SiRFstar™ III chipset for faster first location fix times and improved tracking capabilities in challenging urban and outdoor environment.