Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Working on a Tablet Mac?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Hoping Aple gets it right.
I can see a market for a whole family of these sorts of devices. That is if Apple gets it right.
Now this is a short list and if I took more time to think about it I could add other things. What stands out is the need for high performance as a relatively low power point. This is why I think the advent of multi core ARM processors will make this thing a win. No matter what Intel does they won't be able to compete against an ARM processor with its limited number of transistors.
The other important thing is the element of portability. The device needs to be pocketabble and fulfill multiple roles. Thus the need to function as a cell and as a media player. I'd be perfectly happy to see Apple sell these as an enhancement to the iPhone/Touch family instead of a new product line. The touch is real close to what one needs now. It is just a matter of being able to install the right software and having the right I/O mix.
Now for those of you that don't think their is a market for such devices, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have a laptop at the moment, because frankly I don't have an overwhelming demand for applications on the road. The exceptions being access to E-Mail and the net. Combine E-Mail, net access and the ability to add a few apps of your choosing and you have an ideal device for somebody on the road. It is what makes iPhone such a hot seller. The goal is not to replace laptops but rather to to supply somebody with a tool that is a better choice for on the go usage.
Dave
I can see a market for a whole family of these sorts of devices. That is if Apple gets it right.
- The unit needs to be able to display HD video. That is 720 x 480 and it needs to do so with reasonably good performance.
- The unit needs to be able to fit into ones pocket. This is at least in one variant. So I could see a pocket sized device and a another the size of a piece of paper.
- The unit should maintain binary capability with the iPhone/Touch machines. This means a ARM processor. Frankly this is a good thing as you can most likely get a SMP machine based on ARM processors that simply can't be done with Intel in a reasonable power profile.
- The device should support multiple channels of RF connectivity. This includes WiFi, Bluetooth and cell at the minimal.
- The unit must not be carrier locked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is an absolute requirement. If the thing is carrier locked you might as well carry around a stone tablet.
- Apple has been a the market leader here but it is worth highlighting. Secondary storage is a a must and at the minimal the unit needs to come with 32 GB of built in storage with the provision for expansion beyond that.
- No Cameras built in. Or at least make them optional.
- A full Bluetooth stack must be exposed to applications developers.
- The device needs a built in high level scripting environment. Something beyond bash or python and tailored for the features of the machine. I wold accept python if it is fully supplied with a set of libraries.
Now this is a short list and if I took more time to think about it I could add other things. What stands out is the need for high performance as a relatively low power point. This is why I think the advent of multi core ARM processors will make this thing a win. No matter what Intel does they won't be able to compete against an ARM processor with its limited number of transistors.
The other important thing is the element of portability. The device needs to be pocketabble and fulfill multiple roles. Thus the need to function as a cell and as a media player. I'd be perfectly happy to see Apple sell these as an enhancement to the iPhone/Touch family instead of a new product line. The touch is real close to what one needs now. It is just a matter of being able to install the right software and having the right I/O mix.
Now for those of you that don't think their is a market for such devices, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't have a laptop at the moment, because frankly I don't have an overwhelming demand for applications on the road. The exceptions being access to E-Mail and the net. Combine E-Mail, net access and the ability to add a few apps of your choosing and you have an ideal device for somebody on the road. It is what makes iPhone such a hot seller. The goal is not to replace laptops but rather to to supply somebody with a tool that is a better choice for on the go usage.
Dave
A proper tablet PC
My personal opinion is that I'd like a tablet Mac about the size of a conventional hardback book. While the display may be a bit small for the kind of computing some may desire, the ability to use it as both an ebook reader as well as a comfortably-sized easy to use PDA would be superior. The drawback with most PDAs has been their small size and limited useability as anything more than a simple note-taker and now, for some, phone. On the other hand, something big enough to actually write/type on that doesn't force using txt messaging (I mn, hoo lks tryng 2 dcfr txt anwy?) and read a novel without having to hold the thing up to your nose and scroll every few lines would be a major convenience!
I hope it's true, and I hope they size it to be a true innovation rather than a repackaging of someone else's product.
My personal opinion is that I'd like a tablet Mac about the size of a conventional hardback book. While the display may be a bit small for the kind of computing some may desire, the ability to use it as both an ebook reader as well as a comfortably-sized easy to use PDA would be superior. The drawback with most PDAs has been their small size and limited useability as anything more than a simple note-taker and now, for some, phone. On the other hand, something big enough to actually write/type on that doesn't force using txt messaging (I mn, hoo lks tryng 2 dcfr txt anwy?) and read a novel without having to hold the thing up to your nose and scroll every few lines would be a major convenience!
I hope it's true, and I hope they size it to be a true innovation rather than a repackaging of someone else's product.
If you can type on an iPhone, why wouldn't you be able to type on a Tablet? A tablet would undoubtedly have a text-field-prompted keyboard, just like the iPhone/Touch. The notion of writing on a tablet is as ancient as a fossil.
The tablet, dubbed "powerbook" will feature a G5 processor
I must applaud you; that is the most creative way I've seen a Powerbook G5 comment presented.
Many have said as recently as a few month ago that PDAs were a failure. Now there's an iPhone-generation of products being release by all sorts of manufacturers, all of which are built in the PDA's image. We'll see if the PDA is actually a failure.
Likewise, perhaps the tablets of yore were just trying to be something that just could not have been implemented well-enough given the technology of the day. Now we'll see a resurgence of Tablet PCs since we have a greater capacity for creating powerful portable systems.
Just because it was a failure doesn't mean it will always be.
No, no. It can't just be a bigger version of the iPhone. what advantage would a big-screened iPhone have? Bigger album art? Bigger video playback? Bigger photo browsing? yes, yes, and yes, but that doesn't introduce a higher level of productivity - just the same iPhone functions.
The iPhone's touch OS is just a fledgling. It can do a few remarkable things, yes, but wouldn't cut it in a full-scale implementation. Apple needs to (an undoubtedly is working on this) grow the touch OS, piece by piece until it IS something that will function well on a device larger than a PDA. A future Apple tablet is one such implementation where this advancing OS will be critical.
"Back to my Mac" will undoubtedly become instrumental in future computing. We will eventually reach a point where we will have once computer and all our devices will be terminals that simply log in to that master system.
Thank you for mentioning the "Keyboard and mouse" thing. Pundits don't get that. "what has changed?" they ask. The OS.
-Clive
笑うしかない
when first i read this forums (c 2003) it would be funny but now... it is a little old news. yet, i can still imagine a brighter future with powerbook g5
when first i read this forums (c 2003) it would be funny but now... it is a little old news. yet, i can still imagine a brighter future with powerbook g5
Arm processor more likely
I very much doubt Apple will bother with the Intel architecture. It draws too much power and is too big. It seems obvious to me that they'll produce something much better. Basically a sub pound PDA with a large screen, low price tag and the functionality of a laptop.
Frankly, this should be obvious to everyone. All you have to do is connect the dots.
Dot 1: MacOS X has been ported to the Arm platform.
Dot 2: Most Apple and third party applications could probably be ported to the device. Universal Binaries allowed Apple to successfully deploy its applications on 2 platforms seamlessly. Why not 3?
Dot 3: Mac apps such as iLife are already designed for single button use (read touch screen) interfacing. All Apple needs to do is tweak the size of some elements of the interface and allow seamless integration with the touch keyboard.
Dot 4: Resolution independance (already in OS X) would allow better magnification for such a platform
Dot 5: Arm is powerful enough to run a modern browser. If it can run a browser, it can run an office suite, iPhoto, iTunes, third party applications, etc.
Dot 6: The Arm architecture is much more compact than i386. Look at the size of the iPod touch. Given that the touch is only 0.2 pounds, a stretched iPod touch with a 8" display (enough for 1024 pixels) would weigh less than a pound and be no thicker. Smaller devices could also be produced.
Dot 7: The Arm architecture is much more power efficient than the Intel architecture: the touch can play video much longer than the average laptop despite its tiny battery.
Dot 8: If an iPod touch can be sold for profit at 400$, an equivalent with a larger screen must be under 800$, I would even guess around 650-700$.
If such a device were to be marketed by Apple, I'd ditch my laptop for it in a second and I bet I wouldn't be the only one. I hate how bulky current laptops are. They need a surface to be operated comfortably, boot slowly and are a pain to carry.
All I'd ask for is a small foldable keyboard for extended typing sessions to be offered as an accessory
I very much doubt Apple will bother with the Intel architecture. It draws too much power and is too big. It seems obvious to me that they'll produce something much better. Basically a sub pound PDA with a large screen, low price tag and the functionality of a laptop.
Frankly, this should be obvious to everyone. All you have to do is connect the dots.
Dot 1: MacOS X has been ported to the Arm platform.
Dot 2: Most Apple and third party applications could probably be ported to the device. Universal Binaries allowed Apple to successfully deploy its applications on 2 platforms seamlessly. Why not 3?
Dot 3: Mac apps such as iLife are already designed for single button use (read touch screen) interfacing. All Apple needs to do is tweak the size of some elements of the interface and allow seamless integration with the touch keyboard.
Dot 4: Resolution independance (already in OS X) would allow better magnification for such a platform
Dot 5: Arm is powerful enough to run a modern browser. If it can run a browser, it can run an office suite, iPhoto, iTunes, third party applications, etc.
Dot 6: The Arm architecture is much more compact than i386. Look at the size of the iPod touch. Given that the touch is only 0.2 pounds, a stretched iPod touch with a 8" display (enough for 1024 pixels) would weigh less than a pound and be no thicker. Smaller devices could also be produced.
Dot 7: The Arm architecture is much more power efficient than the Intel architecture: the touch can play video much longer than the average laptop despite its tiny battery.
Dot 8: If an iPod touch can be sold for profit at 400$, an equivalent with a larger screen must be under 800$, I would even guess around 650-700$.
If such a device were to be marketed by Apple, I'd ditch my laptop for it in a second and I bet I wouldn't be the only one. I hate how bulky current laptops are. They need a surface to be operated comfortably, boot slowly and are a pain to carry.
All I'd ask for is a small foldable keyboard for extended typing sessions to be offered as an accessory
Yes a fully supported Blutooth stack is a must. It simply gives you options you wouldn't have for data entry and other usages. That doesn't imply a mouse though. As to keyboard less input the Newton demonstrated that hand writing recognition is possible if not reliable. I suspect that Apple may make advances to up the quality of handwriting recognition.
As to the screen, technology continues to move forward. A screen with a much wider viewing angle is a possibility.
The ideal app here is a audio recorder, that can sync in real time, hand written notes. Instead of thinking about how things where done yesterday think about how they could be done in the future. Apple is good at innovation, there are many possible paths of development that could result in a better solution.
You mean a tablet right? That is what you described.
The problem as I see it is that you can only go so thin before it is impractical to have the common two piece approach. That is a screen that tilts up to reveal the keyboard. The very thing that makes most keyboards practical for touch typist implies some thickness in the keyboard.
In any event as mentioned previously Apple really needs a family of these sorts of devices. One to fit into a large pocket another sized similarly to a piece of paper.
I like your idea with respect to SSD storage but I'd also want it to be expandable. This either through new technology or compact flash.
The last thing I'd want is an unreliable swiveling tablet / laptop kludge. I'm hoping that Apple can produce a machine that is nearly bullet proof. The biggest weak link in such a device would be the screen, I'm not sure what the best approach here would be. Maybe a hybrid plastic/glass laminate.
Dave
I really don't see a market for this. Why do you want a touch screen tablet? First of all people are not handwriting anymore because keyboards have made writing so much faster--going back to handwriting is just ridiculous, it's a step backwards. Touch screen is arguably even more stupid for a pc. The mouse and click make things fly much faster than having to have your hand constantly move on the screen going back and forth and opening and zooming--it's great for an iPhone sized device but for a PC?
I think tablet PCs are pretty stupid and I fail to see people who NEED tablet PCs for anything that a regular sub-notebook can't do faster or more efficiently. Coming out with one would be a novelty product with a few people with cash to burn to buy but not for much else. Besides...if Apple starts coming out with products galore it might be repeating the mistakes of the past--they have kept things relatively simple with their product lines, and if they go off the deep end providing a million different things, a lot of those things will be big money losers for them. I simply don't see a market for a tablet PC that can make it a successful product with profits for Apple.
I think tablet PCs are pretty stupid and I fail to see people who NEED tablet PCs for anything that a regular sub-notebook can't do faster or more efficiently. Coming out with one would be a novelty product with a few people with cash to burn to buy but not for much else. Besides...if Apple starts coming out with products galore it might be repeating the mistakes of the past--they have kept things relatively simple with their product lines, and if they go off the deep end providing a million different things, a lot of those things will be big money losers for them. I simply don't see a market for a tablet PC that can make it a successful product with profits for Apple.
A 720 x 480 device with reasonable playback quality, 32GB SSD (with expandability) AND fits in your pocket? You're kidding, right? I'd like a Xeon MacBookPro with a 750GB HDD, but it's just not possible.
Also, this thing is a phone?? Nay, nay, nay. If it has ANYTHING to do with cell-carriers, it'll be EDGE (or comparable) for data and if it has ANYTHING to do with that, it'll be expensive to use, no matter what carrier you choose. I forsee wi-fi only (or Wi-Max (or comparable) in the future).
High performance at a low power level... This does not exist... Even with a multi-core ARM.
The existing iPhone (to some) is barely "pocketable" How do you expect a higher-powered device to be any smaller? And even if the device is the same size, how do you intend on cramming 720 x 480 into it? That doesn't even exist.
Of course there's a market for a small hand-held HD, 32GB (expanable) device that can do EVERYTHING. We just don't have the technology to make it yet... not for another 5 years. But by then, you'll be wanting something even more grandiose that can't exist either. Get a grip on reality.
Dave, are you a newbie? No? How do you not know these things after almost 400 posts?
-Clive
Using ARM processors would not be a bad idea, especially if they could put in dual processors or dual core without a significant decrease in battery life. But on the software side, why settle for anything less than the full desktop OS X? For that matter why a built-in modem. Include a PCMCIA slot (or whatever it was replaced with, I forget the name) so people can use the modem of any carrier. The iPhone is already a special purpose tablet. Anything new should be general purpose. And would likely not be pocketable.
How about the ability to perform photo touch ups immediately like no other device could before?
Dual core processors actually use less power period if you look at power requirements even a quad core uses even less power then a dual core. So multi-core processors would be ideal for this type of device one can only hope for 8+hours of usage =D
Sounds like they might be very interested in what Asus has done with the recently released Asus Eee PC, which is just 2 lbs, runs a basic Xandros Linux, and has a 7" screen as well as WiFi 802.11b and g.
That device keeps selling out of every retailer, and it getting rave reviews. I bought one, and it's the perfect ultra mobile device. Apple likely sees that the manufacturing cost is now low enough, and the os and touch screen developed already can be applied thus lowering the development cost of such a device.
Asus has proven they have the experience to make such a device.
Alex
That device keeps selling out of every retailer, and it getting rave reviews. I bought one, and it's the perfect ultra mobile device. Apple likely sees that the manufacturing cost is now low enough, and the os and touch screen developed already can be applied thus lowering the development cost of such a device.
Asus has proven they have the experience to make such a device.
Alex
Hmm, size factor makes it sound just like that Origami PC Microsoft launched, what, a year ago? Yeah, we've all seen how that's taken the world by storm.
It's a terrible form factor - I don't care if it's got OS X on it or Windows. It's too big and heavy for your pocket, and too small to do much that's really useful on it. The iPhone/Touch are likely as good as can be for the size, but even there you're dealing with significant tradeoffs; they're light and fit in a user's pocket, though, so people accept it.
It's a terrible form factor - I don't care if it's got OS X on it or Windows. It's too big and heavy for your pocket, and too small to do much that's really useful on it. The iPhone/Touch are likely as good as can be for the size, but even there you're dealing with significant tradeoffs; they're light and fit in a user's pocket, though, so people accept it.
If this would ever come out it better have some killer battery life. I just can't see it ever happening though, how long would a tablet work with the display thats is the majority of the time on?
My iPod 5G gets good battery life, but like Jobs said about a 3G iPhone, the battery life is whats holding it back. What would make this any different? Especially if that display is 1.5 times bigger than the iPhone; it would suck the battery dry in no time.
Exactly! I think the point people mis is that this is a different market from that of a laptop. In any event Apple is free to innovate with multiple technologies, getting text input shouldn't be a problem.
I'd actually rather just see all discussion PPC related die.
The problem is that we have narrowed minded people that can't see or maybe tolerate mobile devices morphing into modern products. In a nut shell if you carry a personal computing device on your person, be it a traditional PDA or a Touch or a IPhone, you have a PDA.
This is a real issue. In part one of hardware technology and one of software. The software issues result from many tablets being MS based. That is the software stack really wasn't suitable to the platform.
This has been proven again and again through out history.
Well here we can disagree. For many of us a bigger screen / larger Iphone would be a natural. Frankly it is just a bit to small for a large person. Further a better screen could go a long way to making the iPhone even better. Just holding an Touch next to an iPhone highlights how much minor changes in size and resolution can impact usability.
Given that description I can see a device with even larger, but pocketable, sized iPhone functionality as being very hot on the market. The goal here is to have a full HD screen in your pocket along with a cell capability. The idea is that you don't hold the phone up to your head to make calls but rather make use of wired or bluetooth buds. You get the benefits of a cell along with an ideal media player and PDA.
So while it might go against the common marketing wizardry a larger screen iPhone is something that needs to be considered. In fact I'd suggest that all of these devices need some sort of cell capacity. Even an 8x10 tablet.
You got that right. It should be obvious to everybody that touch is not a finished product. I suspect that part of the reason that the SDK is still a ways off is that it is a moving target. Apple wants a baseline that is stable to start with.
Interesting maybe. What Apple needs to understand though is that their devices will get used by people that have no interest in a Mac. That means coming clean with the interface to some of the features on these devices.
That is one reason why I want to see them get disk mode access down.
I've spent some time looking at both Touch and iPhone in the local Apple store. They are pretty amazing if you ask me. What many people can't seem to grasp is the innovation in these devices. That and it is just a beginning.
The problem is that I've resisted the temptation because it is obvious that Apple can deliver far better devices on this platform. The iPod Touch is very attractive to me now, but I can't deal with its lack of Bluetooth and other features. Features that by the way could slip into another device that is slightly larger.
Dave
Me too.
Not saying it might not have a market, but I don't see exactly what need it fulfills that a laptop doesn't on one end, or an iPhone at the other end. I'm willing to be persuaded, but I haven't seen a cogent argument yet over the last few years.
And as far as showing your screen to the person sitting opposite you---pivot your laptop. No additional purchase necessary. And how often do you do THAT?
As far as multi-touch/typing and handwriting/drawing: doesn't the multi-touch technology as implemented by Apple restrict input to finger tips--no stylus/pen. There must be some technology hurdle to have both touch/type and write/draw on the same device.
I always have trouble seeing the market for such a device.
Not saying it might not have a market, but I don't see exactly what need it fulfills that a laptop doesn't on one end, or an iPhone at the other end. I'm willing to be persuaded, but I haven't seen a cogent argument yet over the last few years.
And as far as showing your screen to the person sitting opposite you---pivot your laptop. No additional purchase necessary. And how often do you do THAT?
As far as multi-touch/typing and handwriting/drawing: doesn't the multi-touch technology as implemented by Apple restrict input to finger tips--no stylus/pen. There must be some technology hurdle to have both touch/type and write/draw on the same device.
EXACTLY!
Thats what we really need - (so I can get all my music in the iphone) - and that will be here in January for sure.
The tablet - not a chance of this ever seeing the light of day.
Now I'm drooling...
The Leopard's file Coverflow is touch friendly!
It could be true that Asus is helping Apple build a tablet but also true that Apple will decide not to sett a tablet. Maybe Asus is building about 20 tablets for Apple developers to use and for internal evaluation. How many cell phones did Apple have built and for how long before they finally had one for sale. I will believe the rumor when I here some factory in China got an order for a million large sized touch screens
yah sure!
Apparently you don't understand the use cases for these devices. If this is the case you won't see a need for them.
Err that is the whole point a sub notebook can't do what we want to do with a tablet. Not even close because #1 I want it to fit in my pocket.
This I disagree with totally. It is the lack of cash to burn that keeps me from buying any sort of laptop. A multi function tablet device that is slightly larger than a iPod Touch and priced accordingly would be ideal. The one thing that keeps the Touch and similar devices expensive is the Flash memory, as that changes the devices can beocme cheaper and more useful.
Like they are losing money on the Touch and iPhone. Well they may be because of production shortages but that is another issue.
Then sit down with your favorite caffeine enhanced software drink and take a look at the web. See what people are doing with their iPhones and Touch's. Even Apple admits that people are adding apps to their machines at a relatively high rate. Something like 10% of the market is risking their warranty to add apps to these devices. And that is with the limited ability to produce useful apps for the devices in the first place. Imagine what would happen if development gets supported.
Remember the devices are not strictly there to replace laptops. The want and desire is to provide a mobile platform that doesn't require a laptops strengths. We also want to avoid a laptops weaknesses.
Dave