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MacRumors
Nov 7, 2007, 08:49 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Electronista reports (http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/07/hp.penryn.xeon.desktops/) that HP has upgraded their workstations with the new Intel Penryn Xeon processors. The new 45-nm Xeon 5200 (dual core) and Xeon 5400 (quad core) processors can be configured in dual-processor configurations (up to 8 cores total).

Yesterday, Lenovo announced (http://www.lenovo.com/news/us/en/2007/11/thinkstation.html) their first machines powered by the Intel Xeon 5400 processors.

Intel will be officially launching the Penryn processors on November 12th. Apple is expected (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/penryn-based-mac-pros-soon/) to adopt the new procesors in a revision to the Mac Pro. The new Mac Pro is rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/penryn-based-mac-pros-soon/) to be ready to launch as soon as enough Intel processors become available.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/07/first-intel-penryn-based-pcs-arrive-apple-to-follow/)



Digitalclips
Nov 7, 2007, 08:52 AM
And the beat goes on ....

jholzner
Nov 7, 2007, 08:53 AM
Well, knowing Apple, we should be seeing these in Macs in about 6 months or so.

:p

TallManNY
Nov 7, 2007, 08:54 AM
Excellent. My upgrade plan is coming together. Got the Macbook yesterday and I will be able to get a tower early in the new year. Portability and power shall be mine. (Though I will have gird my loins before dropping the cash for the tower. I suspect that is going to smart a bit.)

Rocketman
Nov 7, 2007, 08:54 AM
It seems Apple is so focused now on "immediate delivery" they are willing to delay release dates just to assure "sufficient quantities" of chips, whatever that really means. This rather than just releasing the device when chips start to flow and keeping an eye on how lead times vary with time as the flow adjusts over time until initial saturation is achieved.

Which side of that fence are you early adopters on? :D

Rocketman

darthraige
Nov 7, 2007, 08:56 AM
Ya Gah dang right Apple will follow. Hopefully November 13th or 14th. Apple can't wait any longer, I might as well get a PC if Apple don't release them in November. :mad:

iChester
Nov 7, 2007, 09:01 AM
Excellent. My upgrade plan is coming together. Got the Macbook yesterday and I will be able to get a tower early in the new year. Portability and power shall be mine. (Though I will have gird my loins before dropping the cash for the tower. I suspect that is going to smart a bit.)

Well, my new macbook (arriving next week) is more than enough for me....

GodWhomIsMike
Nov 7, 2007, 09:04 AM
The new ThinkStation D10 features two processor sockets and supports Intel's quad-core Xeon 5400 series processors. The ThinkStation S10, on the other hand, uses Intel's new Core 2 Extreme QX9650 processor.

Although the D10 and S10 were announced today, the systems won't actually begin shipping until January 2008. At that time, the D10 will feature a base price of $1,739 while the S10 will start at just $1,199.

HP is not shipping the new systems until January. Not sure where this leave Apple and other hardware vendors.

fanbrain
Nov 7, 2007, 09:06 AM
Does anyone think the form factor will change at all?

krye
Nov 7, 2007, 09:06 AM
Leopard was supposed to be available early spring, then it was delayed. I waited to buy a new Mac Pro. Then ilife 08 was delayed, I still waited to buy a new Mac Pro., Then October came, leopard and ilife 08 were both available, but still no Mac Pro. I've been awaiting since Feb for a new Mac Pro. I have $3000 set aside for the newest system. Iím ordering it on day 1. I canít wait any more. Come on Apple, don't let me down!

triskadecaepyon
Nov 7, 2007, 09:08 AM
I suspect penryn based macbook pros will come in december/january. Seems like a logical progression.

bigbossbmb
Nov 7, 2007, 09:08 AM
Finally! a page one Xeon/Mac Pro rumor! It's about time...

G4DP
Nov 7, 2007, 09:09 AM
I always thought that Apple would be a market leader when it came to this and announce what was coming with a week lead time. I guess those days are gone.

Sad to see that Lenovo and HP are ahead of Apple when it comes to knew product announcement.

On a side note, I just got a call from Apple asking me about a order saved in my basket, and from the sounds of it next week might be the time. He told me to ring him directly and see what we can arrange regarding the price.

So keep those fingers crossed poeples!

GodWhomIsMike
Nov 7, 2007, 09:12 AM
Sad to see that Lenovo and HP are ahead of Apple when it comes to knew product announcement.


Yes, HP announced their's first, but also said they will not begin shipping until early January.

mashny
Nov 7, 2007, 09:12 AM
Excellent. My upgrade plan is coming together. Got the Macbook yesterday and I will be able to get a tower early in the new year. Portability and power shall be mine. (Though I will have gird my loins before dropping the cash for the tower. I suspect that is going to smart a bit.)

We're on the same wavelength. I just ordered a new Macbook a few days ago, and will definitely be buying a new Mac Pro as soon as it's released. I'm using an eight-year old G4 400, which has served me very well, but definitely needs to be replaced. Got the Macbook both because I needed a laptop, and to let me do the work I need to do that my current computer is too slow to do.

Roy
Nov 7, 2007, 09:12 AM
I always thought that Apple would be a market leader when it came to this and announce what was coming with a week lead time. I guess those days are gone.

Sad to see that Lenovo and HP are ahead of Apple when it comes to knew product announcement.

On a side note, I just got a call from Apple asking me about a order saved in my basket, and from the sounds of it next week might be the time. He told me to ring him directly and see what we can arrange regarding the price.

So keep those fingers crossed poeples!


Well, if it was a Mac Pro in your basket, then that would be of interest. If not, then no interest in this thread.

QCassidy352
Nov 7, 2007, 09:16 AM
It's about time! Let's see 'em, Apple!

jholzner
Nov 7, 2007, 09:24 AM
Leopard was supposed to be available early spring, then it was delayed. I waited to buy a new Mac Pro. Then ilife 08 was delayed, I still waited to buy a new Mac Pro., Then October came, leopard and ilife 08 were both available, but still no Mac Pro. I've been awaiting since Feb for a new Mac Pro. I have $3000 set aside for the newest system. Iím ordering it on day 1. I canít wait any more. Come on Apple, don't let me down!

iLife 08 wasn't delayed. I didn't hear a thing about it from Apple until it was released. Did I miss something or did they just not meet your time line?

brianus
Nov 7, 2007, 09:24 AM
I suspect penryn based macbook pros will come in december/january. Seems like a logical progression.

Uh, wouldn't Intel have to release the mobile Penryns in order for that to happen? Everything I've heard says 2008, I don't see how December would even be a possibility.

Has Intel published anywhere release dates for the remaining Penryn processors? Is there a site you can go to for this stuff? (I always wonder where the Guides get their info on upcoming processors..)

sblasl
Nov 7, 2007, 09:24 AM
Will these be the same chips expected to be used in the updated Mac Pro? If so, am I reading this correctly that they actually might be a little slower than the current offerings?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/07/hp.penryn.xeon.desktops/

"The xw6600 and xw8600 will use the upcoming Xeon 5200 (dual-core) and Xeon 5400 (quad-core) in twin sockets to include as many as eight cores in a single system; the smaller 45-nanometer manufacturing process for the chips improves their performance while also reducing heat and power draw. Professionals can juggle intensive modeling and image editing programs without a significant speed drop, HP says."

jholzner
Nov 7, 2007, 09:25 AM
I always thought that Apple would be a market leader when it came to this and announce what was coming with a week lead time. I guess those days are gone.

Sad to see that Lenovo and HP are ahead of Apple when it comes to knew product announcement.



As another poster mentioned, neither Lenove or HP are shipping these until January.

Crike .40
Nov 7, 2007, 09:25 AM
ah, time for a tower to replace the iMac. Bump em all down the line. Hope my parents enjoy their new 20" G5 ;)~
:apple:

brianus
Nov 7, 2007, 09:26 AM
iLife 08 wasn't delayed. I didn't hear a thing about it from Apple until it was released. Did I miss something or did they just not meet your time line?

I think he means iLife '07 was delayed (and renamed '08 as a result). People had gotten used to Apple releasing a new iLife each January.

jholzner
Nov 7, 2007, 09:26 AM
Will these be the same chips expected to be used in the updated Mac Pro? If so, am I reading this correctly that they actually might be a little slower than the current offerings?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/07/hp.penryn.xeon.desktops/

"The xw6600 and xw8600 will use the upcoming Xeon 5200 (dual-core) and Xeon 5400 (quad-core) in twin sockets to include as many as eight cores in a single system; the smaller 45-nanometer manufacturing process for the chips improves their performance while also reducing heat and power draw. Professionals can juggle intensive modeling and image editing programs without a significant speed drop, HP says."

I think what it is saying is that you can be doing intensive modeling and while that is doing that, you can also be doing image editing and you won't really see a slow down in that task due to the modeling that is also happening at the same time.

I think he means iLife '07 was delayed (and renamed '08 as a result). People had gotten used to Apple releasing a new iLife each January.

Okay. Well, lets look at it as cup half full....iLife '08 was 6 months early! :p

G4DP
Nov 7, 2007, 09:28 AM
Well, if it was a Mac Pro in your basket, then that would be of interest. If not, then no interest in this thread.

Dear Roy,

I presumed due to this being a MacPro thread, that people would be able assume that I was talking about the MacPro. Funnily enough I actually thought people here were able to think for themselves, not needing to be told every single detail.

Just for you lets start again from the beginning.

Yesterday afternoon, I was browsing on the Apple online store, I added a standard configuration MacPro to the basket and saved this order for future reference. I then logged off, made dinner, watched some TV and went to bed.

Now on to today, I went for a walk took the dog for a walk. I get back in the door and 10 minutes later a member of staff from Apple in Ireland asked me about the order for a MacPro saved in my basket. He asked what I was waiting for I told him about the possible Penryn update to the MacPro next week. He said fine. To give him a call towards the end of next week and see what can be done about a possible discount.

Is that condescending enough for you?

Kindest regards.

Umbongo
Nov 7, 2007, 09:29 AM
Will these be the same chips expected to be used in the updated Mac Pro? If so, am I reading this correctly that they actually might be a little slower than the current offerings?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/07/hp.penryn.xeon.desktops/

"The xw6600 and xw8600 will use the upcoming Xeon 5200 (dual-core) and Xeon 5400 (quad-core) in twin sockets to include as many as eight cores in a single system; the smaller 45-nanometer manufacturing process for the chips improves their performance while also reducing heat and power draw. Professionals can juggle intensive modeling and image editing programs without a significant speed drop, HP says."

It's possible Apple may go for the 1600MHz FSB processors rather than the 1333MHz ones HP are going to be offering, as Apple aren't likely to update the range before Nehalem after the new ones, and would want them as fast as they could offer.

As for speeds, the quad 2.83GHz has the same pricing as the dual 2.66Ghz Apple currently use. So expect faster speeds regardless if the base price remains $2500.

edit: misunderstood what was meant, but my point remains.

SirOmega
Nov 7, 2007, 09:31 AM
Don't forget that there were rumors a while back about Apple paying big bucks to secure top speed Penryn chips to ensure it had sufficient quantity. Thats the kinds of things Apple is doing with that $15B cashpile it has - paying up front to ensure it gets first crack at the newest fastest chips. Its probably why HP and Lenovo aren't shipping until January - Apple gets most of the penryn xeons until then.

pohl
Nov 7, 2007, 09:34 AM
am I reading this correctly that they actually might be a little slower than the current offerings?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/07/hp.penryn.xeon.desktops/

"Professionals can juggle intensive modeling and image editing programs without a significant speed drop, HP says."


I don't think so. That strikes me as a statement about better performance in heavy multitasking scenarios. To me it's saying "feel free to work on that 3D model while you're running those photoshop filters and transcoding that video...you won't notice it."

Although I admit the phrasing is confusing.

BlizzardBomb
Nov 7, 2007, 09:40 AM
Sounds promising. I think these constant incremental steps are great. Oh and a new Mac Pro case would be a nice bonus. Black glass Apple logo anyone? ;)

Roy
Nov 7, 2007, 09:40 AM
Dear Roy,

I presumed due to this being a MacPro thread, that people would be able assume that I was talking about the MacPro. Funnily enough I actually thought people here were able to think for themselves, not needing to be told every single detail.

Just for you lets start again from the beginning.

Yesterday afternoon, I was browsing on the Apple online store, I added a standard configuration MacPro to the basket and saved this order for future reference. I then logged off, made dinner, watched some TV and went to bed.

Now on to today, I went for a walk took the dog for a walk. I get back in the door and 10 minutes later a member of staff from Apple in Ireland asked me about the order for a MacPro saved in my basket. He asked what I was waiting for I told him about the possible Penryn update to the MacPro next week. He said fine. To give him a call towards the end of next week and see what can be done about a possible discount.

Is that condescending enough for you?

Kindest regards.

And now I know the full story. Thanks for filling in all the holes you left in your original post.

iSee
Nov 7, 2007, 09:42 AM
Ya Gah dang right Apple will follow. Hopefully November 13th or 14th. Apple can't wait any longer, I might as well get a PC if Apple don't release them in November. :mad:

Actually the HPs won't ship 'til "mid-December" and the Lenovo's won't be available 'til January, so you'll have to wait even for a PC. ;)

Some people are mentioning that the HP will ship in January, but they're confusing the HP article and the Lenovo article.

Just to clear it, according to the articles:

HP's Penryn-based PCs: shipping mid-December
Lenovo's Penryn-based PCs: available January

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 09:47 AM
I always thought that Apple would be a market leader when it came to this and announce what was coming with a week lead time. I guess those days are gone.

When has Apple announced any new design from Intel even on the same day as the other manufacturers? Those days aren't "gone", they never existed except as a fanboy myth.

The only thing that even comes close is that 5 months after other manufacturers were shipping quad Clovertowns, Apple started shipping Clovertowns that were one notch faster than the top published speed. Not a new design, just a faster bin.

Later, of course, we find out that Apple is using older 150 watt versions of the Clovertown - and that the other vendors passed on using that chip and waited for the faster, cooler 120 watt "G0 stepping" version. Also note that the 150 watt chips were available from some of the smaller vendors at about the same time as Apple.

Other dates:

Yonah - Apple announced a week after most of the other vendors.

Merom - How about http://digg.com/apple/MacBook_Pro_NO...ntel_Marketing

Woodcrest - Intel announces 26 June, Apple releases Mac Pro 7 August

Conroe/Kentsfield - Apple missing in action

macintel4me
Nov 7, 2007, 09:48 AM
It's about friggin' time! I was originally going to get a Mac Pro in Jan '07 thinking an upgrade as imminent. Outside of Configuration To Order (CTO) options, the Mac Pro has had ZERO price reductions or feature enhancements for 15 months! The Mac Pro is woefully uncompetitive right now.

In saying that, my wallet is ready when the Mac Pro comes out.

InLikeALion
Nov 7, 2007, 09:52 AM
I don't think so. That strikes me as a statement about better performance in heavy multitasking scenarios. To me it's saying "feel free to work on that 3D model while you're running those photoshop filters and transcoding that video...you won't notice it."

Although I admit the phrasing is confusing.

That's the way it read to me, too. I don't think we'll have to worry about the speed of the machines dropping, or even the clock speed being lower.

irishgrizzly
Nov 7, 2007, 09:53 AM
And now I know the full story. Thanks for filling in all the holes you left in your original post.

I'd like to see a screenshot of your basket and this Apple store, still all a bit vague to me.

gsg900
Nov 7, 2007, 09:53 AM
Help us out here who are new to reading the tea-leaves. i'm very much enjoying being part of the mac world, but the speculation and rumors drives me a little batty!

If I'm interested in buying a quad-core, should I be waiting as well? It's only a week until the announcement but I'm wondering if its going to affect the higher models as well.

Everyone here keeps talking about the 3k macpro's and last time I checked just jumping in to the basic quad puts me in the unenviable 4k price range.

-g

WannaGoMac
Nov 7, 2007, 09:56 AM
Well, knowing Apple, we should be seeing these in Macs in about 6 months or so.

:p

haha, so true.

Hey, it is a great business model. Keep selling older hardware at the original release price.

Sort of like from field of dreams, If you KEEP building it, they will come.

Umbongo
Nov 7, 2007, 09:58 AM
Help us out here who are new to reading the tea-leaves. i'm very much enjoying being part of the mac world, but the speculation and rumors drives me a little batty!

If I'm interested in buying a quad-core, should I be waiting as well? It's only a week until the announcement but I'm wondering if its going to affect the higher models as well.

Everyone here keeps talking about the 3k macpro's and last time I checked just jumping in to the basic quad puts me in the unenviable 4k price range.

-g

The pricing and options point towards an all 8 core range at similar prices to now. So you should wait to get value for your money.

badlydrawnboy
Nov 7, 2007, 09:59 AM
When has Apple announced any new design from Intel even on the same day as the other manufacturers? Those days aren't "gone", they never existed except as a fanboy myth.

The only thing that even comes close is that 5 months after other manufacturers were shipping quad Clovertowns, Apple started shipping Clovertowns that were one notch faster than the top published speed. Not a new design, just a faster bin.

Later, of course, we find out that Apple is using older 150 watt versions of the Clovertown - and that the other vendors passed on using that chip and waited for the faster, cooler 120 watt "G0 stepping" version. Also note that the 150 watt chips were available from some of the smaller vendors at about the same time as Apple.

Other dates:

Yonah - Apple announced a week after most of the other vendors.

Merom - How about http://digg.com/apple/MacBook_Pro_NO...ntel_Marketing

Woodcrest - Intel announces 26 June, Apple releases Mac Pro 7 August

Conroe/Kentsfield - Apple missing in action

This seems to be the most convincing evidence that we won't see updates until MWSF in January. I hope you're wrong, but it makes sense.

Umbongo
Nov 7, 2007, 10:04 AM
This seems to be the most convincing evidence that we won't see updates until MWSF in January. I hope you're wrong, but it makes sense.

If I were concerned about needing one soon it's what would worry me also, but I think with the huge time span between Intel workstation refreshes, the rumours of Apple buying up penryn Xeons and the consumer focus of MWSF it's likely they will be here wednesday or thursday next week.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 10:11 AM
...the consumer focus of MWSF...

http://support.apple.com/specs/

MWSF 2006 - MacBook Pro announced
MWSF 2004 - Xserve G5 and Xserve RAID (SFP) announced
MWSF 2003 - PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 2001 - PowerMac G4 and PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 1999 - PowerMac G3 announced

It looks like the pattern is every other year for a Pro announcement - so MWSF 2008 is due!

tivoli2
Nov 7, 2007, 10:12 AM
And now I know the full story. Thanks for filling in all the holes you left in your original post.

There's always someone who needs their hand held. I knew he was referencing a Mac Pro, and it can't just be that I'm Irish, too.

Aside from Roy not having enough coffee yet, I'm not overly optimistic about Apple coming out with the update before the end of the year. (Roy - I'm talking about the Mac Pro update rumor.) Mostly because even this thread is based on a couple of PC makers coming out with theirs. I know that by inference you can say "well, hey! Apple can't be far behind, right?" but eihter Apple has been good at bottling up the leaks, or there isn't anything to leak. I really fear the latter.

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 10:23 AM
So far, the PC announcements by HP et. al. mention only 3.0 GHz. I think the rumor about Apple buying up all the bins of 3.2 GHz 1600 MHz FSB might be confirmed by this. What I want to know in any upgrade of Mac Pro is what GPU will it have. I'm really looking forward to a dual-boot OS X / Vista machine that will become my dream gaming solution. The main issue there is driver support under OS X for ATI 2900X / Nvidia 8800 GTX. Of course it will always be a few percent FPS off from the best tricked out PC rig. But then it is also my workstation as well.

Wild-Bill
Nov 7, 2007, 10:30 AM
I know that by inference you can say "well, hey! Apple can't be far behind, right?" but eihter Apple has been good at bottling up the leaks, or there isn't anything to leak. I really fear the latter.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there.

It was reported on several websites three weeks ago that Apple was placing large orders for Intel Harpertown Xeons, which would leave other OEMs with just enough to ship initial orders. So Apple, in fact, is ahead and not "not far behind".

What I want to know in any upgrade of Mac Pro is what GPU will it have.

That has been a point of contention on many threads in the Mac Pro forum. I'd personally like to see the 8800GTX or the 8800GT and nothing from ATI. Besides the fact that the HD 2900xt is now being EOL'd and being replaced by a newer 55nm part, it is loud and hot and is ourperformed by the 8800GTX.

However glorious a day it may be to visit the Apple site next Tuesday and see new Mac Pros on sale, there is a very real and palpable probability that they could completely screw up the video card options with poor choices. It wouldn't be the first time Apple has made poor video card choices, and certainly not the last....

thedudeAbides
Nov 7, 2007, 10:31 AM
Seriously, why is everyone so concerned with a new CPU? there is no way that practically anyone should be CPU limited with 8 cores processing at 3.0 GHz. i will guaruntee that most people are GPU limited though. come on, how old are these graphics cards? maybe everyone is excited because they think the new CPU's will force apple to update their GPU's. that's my call anyways.

thedudeabides

Umbongo
Nov 7, 2007, 10:32 AM
http://support.apple.com/specs/

MWSF 2006 - MacBook Pro announced
MWSF 2004 - Xserve G5 and Xserve RAID (SFP) announced
MWSF 2003 - PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 2001 - PowerMac G4 and PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 1999 - PowerMac G3 announced

It looks like the pattern is every other year for a Pro announcement - so MWSF 2008 is due!

Interesting.

~Shard~
Nov 7, 2007, 10:35 AM
Well, knowing Apple, we should be seeing these in Macs in about 6 months or so.

:p

Not necessarily - Apple had a jump on their competition during the last revision after receiving "preferential treatment" from Intel.

I suspect penryn based macbook pros will come in december/january. Seems like a logical progression.

We may honestly not see the Penryn-based Mac Pros until that timeframe so I doubt we will see any updates to the MacBook Pros until Q1 08. Intel is starting with the Xeon workstation class of Penryn chip, with the desktop and mobile flavors to follow, so it will still be some time in my opinion...

Wild-Bill
Nov 7, 2007, 10:38 AM
Seriously, why is everyone so concerned with a new CPU? there is no way that practically anyone should be CPU limited with 8 cores processing at 3.0 GHz. i will guaruntee that most people are GPU limited though. come on, how old are these graphics cards? maybe everyone is excited because they think the new CPU's will force apple to update their GPU's. that's my call anyways.

thedudeabides

How about better performance at lower wattages and a higher FSB for one??? Then there's also that fact that these new chips are price comparably to the dual core options in the current Mac Pro lineup. Dual quad-core processing for dual dual-core pricing.

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 10:40 AM
Seriously, why is everyone so concerned with a new CPU? there is no way that practically anyone should be CPU limited with 8 cores processing at 3.0 GHz. i will guaruntee that most people are GPU limited though. come on, how old are these graphics cards? maybe everyone is excited because they think the new CPU's will force apple to update their GPU's. that's my call anyways.

thedudeabides

Up to a point, I understand your position. But if the new CPU also bumps up the FSB to 1600 MHz, Intel themselves have estimated that the top-end quad core chips represent a 45% increase in performance over previous quads. That is quite massive on a per-socket basis. Agreed though, that much of the excitement hinges on what GPU will be available. Hope it's not a mega-expensive BTO choice.

zorinlynx
Nov 7, 2007, 10:44 AM
I'd personally like to see the 8800GTX or the 8800GT and nothing from ATI. Besides the fact that the HD 2900xt is now being EOL'd and being replaced by a newer 55nm part, it is loud and hot and is ourperformed by the 8800GTX.


Seeing that Nvidia can't write Mac OS X drivers worth even a tenth of a ******, I'd like to see Apple kick Nvidia to the curb and stick with ATI, which has much more stable drivers on the OS X platform.

There have been NO END of problems with the Nvidia 8600 mobile chipsets in the Macbook Pros due to driver problems. People playing Second Life, WoW, and other games have had crashes, glitching, and so on, and none of these problems have been fully fixed yet.

Please, oh please let Apple stick with ATI cards. My X1900XT in my Mac Pro is *ROCK SOLID*, as is the X1600 chipset in my rev 1 Macbook Pro. There have been minor instability issues in the aluminum iMacs, but they have been fixed as far as I know. Nvidia has yet to fix their drivers.

-Z

gugy
Nov 7, 2007, 10:47 AM
next week, guys, next week.

They are coming, please!!!!!!:eek::)

ChrisA
Nov 7, 2007, 10:53 AM
Professionals can juggle intensive modeling and image editing programs without a significant speed drop, HP says.[/I]"

I think what they mean is that now you can run both programs together at close to the same speed as you could run each of them alone.

lacohido
Nov 7, 2007, 10:56 AM
(with fingers crossed) 8800GTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTX...

zorinlynx
Nov 7, 2007, 10:57 AM
(with fingers crossed) 8800GTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTX...

Read my response above. And yes, I feel really strongly about this. I know several Santa Rosa MBP owners who are suffering with the crappy nvidia drivers all the time. They have to boot into WINDOWS to have decent GL performance.

Nvidia 8xxx on Apple is garbage. Check out the Apple support forums and read if you don't believe me.

SirOmega
Nov 7, 2007, 10:58 AM
Please, oh please let Apple stick with ATI cards. My X1900XT in my Mac Pro is *ROCK SOLID*, as is the X1600 chipset in my rev 1 Macbook Pro. There have been minor instability issues in the aluminum iMacs, but they have been fixed as far as I know. Nvidia has yet to fix their drivers.

Well lets hope that if Apple does go with ATI, they use the new R670 parts - the 3850 looks pretty good, single slot cooler. Even if the performance is a little less, the 8800GT and 3850 are both good cards (an improvement over X1900/8800GTS).

digitalbiker
Nov 7, 2007, 10:59 AM
Intel themselves have estimated that the top-end quad core chips represent a 45% increase in performance over previous quads.

Where did you see those numbers? The best I could find was a 10 to 15% performance increase but running much cooler and more energy efficient.

To be honest I doubt there will be a lot of real world performance difference in typical applications.

The GPU will probably make the biggest difference. I know MM raves about SS but he is the only one that I have heard who seems to think it will make a big difference.

Most of the excitement surrounding the new Penryn chips is the energy efficiency, and low temperature operation.

lacohido
Nov 7, 2007, 10:59 AM
Read my response above. And yes, I feel really strongly about this. I know several Santa Rosa MBP owners who are suffering with the crappy nvidia drivers all the time. They have to boot into WINDOWS to have decent GL performance.

Nvidia 8xxx on Apple is garbage. Check out the Apple support forums and read if you don't believe me.

(with fingers crossed) 8800GTX, 8800GTX, 8800GTX...

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 11:01 AM
It was reported on several websites three weeks ago that Apple was placing large orders for Intel Harpertown Xeons...

Report ;) ?

There was a rumour from one source that was copied on several Mac sites - nothing confirmed or even second-sourced.

digitalbiker
Nov 7, 2007, 11:04 AM
Read my response above. And yes, I feel really strongly about this. I know several Santa Rosa MBP owners who are suffering with the crappy nvidia drivers all the time. They have to boot into WINDOWS to have decent GL performance.

Nvidia 8xxx on Apple is garbage. Check out the Apple support forums and read if you don't believe me.


Yeah, I wish Apple would let NVidia write their own drivers for the mac. The performance difference and reliability between the Windows NVidia drivers and the Apple drivers is like night and day. Windows Nvidia drivers are great, OS X Apple driver's suck.

It is really arrogant of Apple to think that they can write better drivers than the manufacturer.

milo
Nov 7, 2007, 11:05 AM
When has Apple announced any new design from Intel even on the same day as the other manufacturers? Those days aren't "gone", they never existed except as a fanboy myth.

Who cares about when they announce something new, isn't the important part when they ship?

And didn't the first intel macs start shipping at the same time or sooner than PC's with those same chips? I believe there may have been similar situations later on.

I don't get why some people get their panties in a bunch when a PC company announces hardware that is a month or more away from shipping and insists that since apple hasn't made an announcement yet that makes them "late". If there is a trend, it simply seems to be that apple has more of a tendency to not announce things until they are ready to ship.

zorinlynx
Nov 7, 2007, 11:07 AM
Yeah, I wish Apple would let NVidia write their own drivers for the mac. The performance difference and reliability between the Windows NVidia drivers and the Apple drivers is like night and day. Windows Nvidia drivers are great, OS X Apple driver's suck.

It is really arrogant of Apple to think that they can write better drivers than the manufacturer.

Does Apple actually write the Nvidia drivers? I was under the impression that Nvidia writes them, and Apple incorporates them into the OS.

I think Apple would be foolish to write their own graphics drivers. Something that works on such a low level with the hardware should be written by the GPU manufacturer, not Apple.

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 11:07 AM
I think Nvidia has the edge right now on 3D, but then there are really no benchmarks for DirectX10. Crysis will be released next week. My understanding is that when true DirectX10 gaming begins, ATI's stream processor architecture will kick in and kick butt. Also, OpenGL is still out there. John Carmack, for one, will only use that API. Any shader coolness that is invented for DirectX10 will be represented in OpenGL. It's "open" after all.

I have always been an ATI brand loyalist (sounds better than fanboy) because I think ATI also excells in multimedia playback. I think ATI has way more features for advanced HD everything. I actually do watch DVD movies on my computer, so it's an issue for me.

On the other hand, today's news is that AMD / ATI is in pretty bad shape with 3 quarters in a row of massive financial losses ever since the merger. The CEO of ATI has bailed out. I was afraid of that. So if I have to become an Nvidia loyalist, so be it.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 11:08 AM
Not necessarily - Apple had a jump on their competition during the last revision after receiving "preferential treatment" from Intel.

I assume that you're referring to the 3.0 GHz Clovertowns that showed up in the Mac Pro five months after HP/Dell/... were shipping quad-core Clovertowns.


That wasn't a "revision", it was a "binning". Over time, silicon production lines improve and stabilize - resulting in a higher average speed of the chips. By May, Intel had enough 3.0 GHz Clovertowns coming off the production lines to sell them.
It wasn't an Apple exclusive - several of the 2nd tier "white box" vendors were also shipping 3.0 GHz quads, and the chips were available on the grey market.
Because it was a "factory overclocked" chip, it ran hot - 150 watt TDP
The other manufacturers declined to use the 150 watt chips, because the newer, faster 120 watt "G0 stepping" was coming soon.


Apple has typically been slow in announcing new Intel designs, and now we have another case here with the Penryn Xeons.

digitalbiker
Nov 7, 2007, 11:10 AM
Does Apple actually write the Nvidia drivers? I was under the impression that Nvidia writes them, and Apple incorporates them into the OS.

I think Apple would be foolish to write their own graphics drivers. Something that works on such a low level with the hardware should be written by the GPU manufacturer, not Apple.

My understanding was that Apple wrote their own drivers for the Nvidia cards, not Nvidia. As a result there is a huge difference between the drivers available for the mac as compared to the drivers available for windows.

feyn-man
Nov 7, 2007, 11:16 AM
But how to read 'Penryn'?

ImageWrangler
Nov 7, 2007, 11:16 AM
Bring 'em on, let xmas come early.

The bigger question is at what price points will these bad boys be coming in. If they're in the same case design they best not raise prices considering the chip costs are staying pretty much the same. Apple needs to stay competitive and not revisit the 90s pricing structures.

thedudeAbides
Nov 7, 2007, 11:21 AM
Where did you see those numbers? The best I could find was a 10 to 15% performance increase but running much cooler and more energy efficient.

To be honest I doubt there will be a lot of real world performance difference in typical applications.

The GPU will probably make the biggest difference. I know MM raves about SS but he is the only one that I have heard who seems to think it will make a big difference.

Most of the excitement surrounding the new Penryn chips is the energy efficiency, and low temperature operation.

yeah, these numbers sound much more reasonable. 45% increase from the FSB bump? don't think so. energy efficiency is always good.

has anyone actually reached a CPU limit on the 8 core mac pros? i am no computer engineer, but i would assume that there is some bottleneck somewhere else on the system. is this cpu update a drop in replacement or should we expect improvements in the rest of the mobo?

thedudeabides

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 11:29 AM
Here:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2114747,00.asp

At the April 17 conference in Beijing, company officials went a step further and disclosed new performance specifications. For example, a Penryn processor with a 1600MHz FSB (front side bus) in a workstation or Penryn processor with a 1300MHz FSB in a server will offer 45 percent better performance for bandwidth-intensive applications and 25 percent greater performance for a server using Java. In this scenario, Intel compared the two pre-production processors with a quad-core Xeon 5355 processor.

Intel also compared a Penryn processor with a clock speed of 3.3GHz, a 1333MHz FSB and 12MB of Level 2 cache with its quad-core Core 2 Extreme QX6800, which the company just released on April 9. The results showed a 25 percent greater performance with three-dimensional rendering, a 40 percent increase in gaming performance and a 40 percent increase in video encoding.

[I think that the massive 12 MB cache and whatever access sharing scheme Intel has implemented is contributing to this performance as it doesn't seem to be *so* dependant on the FSB speed.]

milo
Nov 7, 2007, 11:30 AM
First Intel Penryn Based PCs Arrive... Apple to Follow?

That headline isn't right...none of them have "arrived", they have just been announced. With them shipping in december and january, it's entirely possible that apple could ship these first (which would be "lead" not "follow").

EagerDragon
Nov 7, 2007, 11:32 AM
Well either these will wait for WWDC, Apple has a big surprice for us (iTablet), or we are going to have a very boring WWDC.

I wonder what will be in the keynote.

~Shard~
Nov 7, 2007, 11:34 AM
I assume that you're referring to the 3.0 GHz Clovertowns that showed up in the Mac Pro five months after HP/Dell/... were shipping quad-core Clovertowns.


That wasn't a "revision", it was a "binning". Over time, silicon production lines improve and stabilize - resulting in a higher average speed of the chips. By May, Intel had enough 3.0 GHz Clovertowns coming off the production lines to sell them.
It wasn't an Apple exclusive - several of the 2nd tier "white box" vendors were also shipping 3.0 GHz quads, and the chips were available on the grey market.
Because it was a "factory overclocked" chip, it ran hot - 150 watt TDP
The other manufacturers declined to use the 150 watt chips, because the newer, faster 120 watt "G0 stepping" was coming soon.


Apple has typically been slow in announcing new Intel designs, and now we have another case here with the Penryn Xeons.

Thanks Aiden, your knowledge and insight is always appreciated. :cool:

hollywoodmacguy
Nov 7, 2007, 11:36 AM
so if, as seems likely based on today's news/rumor, the arrival of new mac pros is imminent, does that mean we can also finally expect new :apple: cinema displays to complement them?

apparently it's fairly common for :apple: to release new ACDs with new pro machines. any thoughts?

EagerDragon
Nov 7, 2007, 11:37 AM
Competitors of Apple are shipping in Jan, I think this is because Apple got Intel to reserve the bulk of the chips for Apple and everyone elase has to wait. I read something about that not long ago, here I think.

~Shard~
Nov 7, 2007, 11:37 AM
Well either these will wait for WWDC, Apple has a big surprice for us (iTablet), or we are going to have a very boring WWDC.

I should hope we don't have to wait until WWDC for the release! :eek:

My preference (and guess) would be MWSF or earlier... :p :cool:

psychofreak
Nov 7, 2007, 11:38 AM
Competitors of Apple are shipping in Jan, I think this is because Apple got Intel to reserve the bulk of the chips for Apple and everyone elase has to wait. I read something about that not long ago, here I think.
It may be true, but anything you read was pure speculation...

compuguy1088
Nov 7, 2007, 11:38 AM
Seeing that Nvidia can't write Mac OS X drivers worth even a tenth of a ******, I'd like to see Apple kick Nvidia to the curb and stick with ATI, which has much more stable drivers on the OS X platform.

There have been NO END of problems with the Nvidia 8600 mobile chipsets in the Macbook Pros due to driver problems. People playing Second Life, WoW, and other games have had crashes, glitching, and so on, and none of these problems have been fully fixed yet.

Please, oh please let Apple stick with ATI cards. My X1900XT in my Mac Pro is *ROCK SOLID*, as is the X1600 chipset in my rev 1 Macbook Pro. There have been minor instability issues in the aluminum iMacs, but they have been fixed as far as I know. Nvidia has yet to fix their drivers.

-Z

As of now the freezing issues in the the Aluminum iMacs has not been fixed for many people, from what I've read in a thread.

digitalbiker
Nov 7, 2007, 11:44 AM
Here:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2114747,00.asp

At the April 17 conference in Beijing, company officials went a step further and disclosed new performance specifications. For example, a Penryn processor with a 1600MHz FSB (front side bus) in a workstation or Penryn processor with a 1300MHz FSB in a server will offer 45 percent better performance for bandwidth-intensive applications and 25 percent greater performance for a server using Java. In this scenario, Intel compared the two pre-production processors with a quad-core Xeon 5355 processor.

Intel also compared a Penryn processor with a clock speed of 3.3GHz, a 1333MHz FSB and 12MB of Level 2 cache with its quad-core Core 2 Extreme QX6800, which the company just released on April 9. The results showed a 25 percent greater performance with three-dimensional rendering, a 40 percent increase in gaming performance and a 40 percent increase in video encoding.

[I think that the massive 12 MB cache and whatever access sharing scheme Intel has implemented is contributing to this performance as it doesn't seem to be *so* dependant on the FSB speed.]

Thanks for the link. I guess we have to wait and see if the Mac Pro takes this big a leap in performance. If it does Apple will have to provide chains to keep this beast from lifting off.

thedudeAbides
Nov 7, 2007, 11:45 AM
Here:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2114747,00.asp

At the April 17 conference in Beijing, company officials went a step further and disclosed new performance specifications. For example, a Penryn processor with a 1600MHz FSB (front side bus) in a workstation or Penryn processor with a 1300MHz FSB in a server will offer 45 percent better performance for bandwidth-intensive applications and 25 percent greater performance for a server using Java. In this scenario, Intel compared the two pre-production processors with a quad-core Xeon 5355 processor.

Intel also compared a Penryn processor with a clock speed of 3.3GHz, a 1333MHz FSB and 12MB of Level 2 cache with its quad-core Core 2 Extreme QX6800, which the company just released on April 9. The results showed a 25 percent greater performance with three-dimensional rendering, a 40 percent increase in gaming performance and a 40 percent increase in video encoding.

[I think that the massive 12 MB cache and whatever access sharing scheme Intel has implemented is contributing to this performance as it doesn't seem to be *so* dependant on the FSB speed.]

thanks for the link. that is quite an impressive bump. i believe that the 45 nm cpu's are also implementing improved instruction sets (SSE4) which may also improve performance.

thedudeabides

diamond.g
Nov 7, 2007, 11:47 AM
Uh, wouldn't Intel have to release the mobile Penryns in order for that to happen? Everything I've heard says 2008, I don't see how December would even be a possibility.

Has Intel published anywhere release dates for the remaining Penryn processors? Is there a site you can go to for this stuff? (I always wonder where the Guides get their info on upcoming processors..)
I usually use wiki and beyond3d for my info. Dunno about anyone else.

Seriously, why is everyone so concerned with a new CPU? there is no way that practically anyone should be CPU limited with 8 cores processing at 3.0 GHz. i will guaruntee that most people are GPU limited though. come on, how old are these graphics cards? maybe everyone is excited because they think the new CPU's will force apple to update their GPU's. that's my call anyways.

thedudeabides Hey some people fold and would be happy with a 16+ core processor.

Seeing that Nvidia can't write Mac OS X drivers worth even a tenth of a ******, I'd like to see Apple kick Nvidia to the curb and stick with ATI, which has much more stable drivers on the OS X platform.

There have been NO END of problems with the Nvidia 8600 mobile chipsets in the Macbook Pros due to driver problems. People playing Second Life, WoW, and other games have had crashes, glitching, and so on, and none of these problems have been fully fixed yet.

Please, oh please let Apple stick with ATI cards. My X1900XT in my Mac Pro is *ROCK SOLID*, as is the X1600 chipset in my rev 1 Macbook Pro. There have been minor instability issues in the aluminum iMacs, but they have been fixed as far as I know. Nvidia has yet to fix their drivers.

-Z

I think Nvidia has the edge right now on 3D, but then there are really no benchmarks for DirectX10. Crysis will be released next week. My understanding is that when true DirectX10 gaming begins, ATI's stream processor architecture will kick in and kick butt. Also, OpenGL is still out there. John Carmack, for one, will only use that API. Any shader coolness that is invented for DirectX10 will be represented in OpenGL. It's "open" after all.

I have always been an ATI brand loyalist (sounds better than fanboy) because I think ATI also excells in multimedia playback. I think ATI has way more features for advanced HD everything. I actually do watch DVD movies on my computer, so it's an issue for me.

On the other hand, today's news is that AMD / ATI is in pretty bad shape with 3 quarters in a row of massive financial losses ever since the merger. The CEO of ATI has bailed out. I was afraid of that. So if I have to become an Nvidia loyalist, so be it.

Yeah, pretty sure nvidia's linux drivers are fine. I am not sure why Apple just doens't use those. Most people that I know have not had issues with nvidia's drivers ATI's on the other hand... Of course when you use a part that is 2-3 years old I would hope that the drivers have became stable. ATI does include lots of functionality with their cards but Apple has yet to tap into any of it. Choosing to rely on CPU power instead.

leopardfan
Nov 7, 2007, 11:52 AM
Here's more analysis about Mac Pro updates possibly on November 12

Mac Pro update soon - with Penryn processors on November 12? (http://switchtoamac.com/site/mac-pro-update-soon-with-penryn-processors-on-november-12.html)

EagerDragon
Nov 7, 2007, 11:53 AM
It's about friggin' time! I was originally going to get a Mac Pro in Jan '07 thinking an upgrade as imminent. Outside of Configuration To Order (CTO) options, the Mac Pro has had ZERO price reductions or feature enhancements for 15 months! The Mac Pro is woefully uncompetitive right now.

In saying that, my wallet is ready when the Mac Pro comes out.

Not sure about uncompetitive ..... Are there other computer manufactorers able to run OSX and all your OSX applications?

Not sure what competitor you are talking about. Yes you can switch to a PEE CE but you also need to get all new software and in some cases, learn new applications.

Apple will come thru.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 11:56 AM
... Apple got Intel to reserve the bulk of the chips for Apple and everyone else has to wait ...

That would be the best thing that could happen to AMD.

In other words, it's ludicrous to think that Intel would shaft the rest of their customers (and by far larger) customers to give Apple an exclusive.

It's possible that Intel has priced the 3.2 so high that only Apple wants it :D - but all this "preferential treatment" stuff is crazy talk.

BornAgainMac
Nov 7, 2007, 11:57 AM
To give him a call towards the end of next week and see what can be done about a possible discount.


I bet the Mac Pro update will happen in January or February. They probably are going to give a price break to people that are on the fence about purchasing a Mac Pro. They are just getting approval and an exact discount. Just my guess.

I personally would wait until they are updated.

EagerDragon
Nov 7, 2007, 11:58 AM
This seems to be the most convincing evidence that we won't see updates until MWSF in January. I hope you're wrong, but it makes sense.

If all it is is a speed bump of the cpu and bus, this will likely roll out in a week or two.

If there is a major redesign, then January.

DrGruv1
Nov 7, 2007, 12:00 PM
It seems Apple is so focused now on "immediate delivery" they are willing to delay release dates just to assure "sufficient quantities" of chips, whatever that really means. This rather than just releasing the device when chips start to flow and keeping an eye on how lead times vary with time as the flow adjusts over time until initial saturation is achieved.

Which side of that fence are you early adopters on? :D

Rocketman


Not sure - wait a month and see if there's issues... OR
Buy in the first 2 minutes! :D

TripleCore
Nov 7, 2007, 12:07 PM
I bet the Mac Pro update will happen in January or February. They probably are going to give a price break to people that are on the fence about purchasing a Mac Pro. They are just getting approval and an exact discount. Just my guess.

I personally would wait until they are updated.

While my tendency would not to be too optimistic where Apple updates are concerned, let's not forget one clue: Amazon is offering price rebates on the current towers. These are set to expire on the 12th. Coincidence? You decide.

tivoli2
Nov 7, 2007, 12:08 PM
Report ;) ?

There was a rumour from one source that was copied on several Mac sites - nothing confirmed or even second-sourced.

OK - Wild Bill is right - I did see that rumor and it gave me hope, but even if this rumor had more weight, I still feel like there has been a real black hole as far as info on what is a real possibility for the new machines. I say "feels like" especially in relation to the deluge we had with the iPhone & iPod madness.

And, like most others, I hope for a better choice of graphics cards. That being said, I'd ask what are the chances/hurdles/impossibilities of Apple enabling the Mac Pro to accept the many aftermarket cards I see at the local Big Blue? (Aiden?) I like to play games, but my main task is animation and After Effects - (my machine still does well with standard def in short segments, but grinds to a halt at the mere mention of working in HD) maybe the graphics cards that are already available are good enough... but they're OLD. Granted, not as old as the one I'm using now... Is what limits Apple's card usage something very specific outside of the slot type? What is "reasonable" to hope for from Apple? Maybe that's not even a question best suited to this thread, and if not, I apologize. Sorry for rambling as well - I have many questions and worries, it seems.

sabbath999
Nov 7, 2007, 12:08 PM
Sad to see that Lenovo and HP are ahead of Apple when it comes to knew product announcement.

Those that announce first are the ones that get to eat the most in backstock of old computers.

Business wise, it is FAR better to sell down current inventory to as low as possible before you announce... announcing does nothing but kill sales of your current hardware.

Announce when you can SHIP it. What matters is getting the hardware out ASAP with the lowest levels of previous-edition inventory, not who issues which press release when.

bilbo--baggins
Nov 7, 2007, 12:11 PM
Not sure about uncompetitive ..... Are there other computer manufactorers able to run OSX and all your OSX applications?

Not sure what competitor you are talking about. Yes you can switch to a PEE CE but you also need to get all new software and in some cases, learn new applications.

Apple will come thru.

Those of us who only consider Macs just get miffed that Apple's specs lag behind other companies (eg. graphics cards in particular), and are more inclined to hang on for the new models.

Those who aren't purely Mac users but are just looking at spec lists will certainly consider the current Mac Pro to be uncompetitive - it's the same price as when it came out 15 months ago without any improvement in spec. Comparing the Mac Pro today with the Mac Pro in August 2006 it's way over priced or under spec depending on how you want to look at it. Prices are (or should be) falling all the time for any given spec.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 12:15 PM
Those that announce first are the ones that get to eat the most in backstock of old computers.

Business wise, it is FAR better to sell down current inventory to as low as possible before you announce... announcing does nothing but kill sales of your current hardware.

Announce when you can SHIP it. What matters is getting the hardware out ASAP with the lowest levels of previous-edition inventory, not who issues which press release when.

If I were to decide to buy a bunch of the HPs - it would probably be mid-December before I could get the config info, get quotes, get approval from finance, and issue a Purchase Order to HP.

Your comment might make sense for the consumer systems sitting on Best Buy shelves, but HP is doing the right thing for my planning and purchasing process.

Umbongo
Nov 7, 2007, 12:17 PM
Those of us who only consider Macs just get miffed that Apple's specs lag behind other companies (eg. graphics cards in particular), and are more inclined to hang on for the new models.

Those who aren't purely Mac users but are just looking at spec lists will certainly consider the current Mac Pro to be uncompetitive - it's the same price as when it came out 15 months ago without any improvement in spec. Comparing the Mac Pro today with the Mac Pro in August 2006 it's way over priced or under spec depending on how you want to look at it. Prices are (or should be) falling all the time for any given spec.

Not on workstations, they have remained stable from the big vendors, with additions of the newer quadro FX and firegl cards, even the clvoertown price drop didn't alter prices.

liv4Mac
Nov 7, 2007, 12:19 PM
Seriously, why is everyone so concerned with a new CPU? there is no way that practically anyone should be CPU limited with 8 cores processing at 3.0 GHz.

thedudeabides

Are you serious? You should never make such and assumption when CPU is concerned. :rolleyes:

mdriftmeyer
Nov 7, 2007, 12:21 PM
So basically both companies jump the gun to market an up and coming product with this processor?

Big deal.

Friends at Intel tell me that Apple is buying up the chip in large quantities and making it difficult for anyone else to get them.

rog
Nov 7, 2007, 12:23 PM
About time! The MacPros are over a year old and ridiculously expensive. $2000 for 2 Ghz? No thanks! Even many of Apple's own apps don't use all 4 cores and this has not improved in Leopard. For most things, their 2.0 Xeon is no faster than an almost 5 year old 2.0 G5!

FoxyKaye
Nov 7, 2007, 12:25 PM
Silent update to the XServe, pretty please? Our organization needs a new one, and it will be a cold day in hell when I pay current retail prices for over-a-year-old technology.

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 12:27 PM
While my tendency would not to be too optimistic where Apple updates are concerned, let's not forget one clue: Amazon is offering price rebates on the current towers. These are set to expire on the 12th. Coincidence? You decide.

Good eye!

Cut straight from Amazon:

Purchase by: Postmarked by: Rebate amount:

11/12/07 12/12/07 $150.00

Total Rebate Savings: $150.00

gugy
Nov 7, 2007, 12:29 PM
November 13, that's the date and it is a Tuesday!

New Mac Pro and displays. I still think the enclosure for both will still be the same. with addition to BTO iSight for ACDs and a larger than 30" new display.

Apple will not wait for MWSF if they have the chips available now. It doesn't make sense. Many business have yearly budgets and taking advantage of end of this year tax deductions is a big incentive.

MWSF has been consumer centric in the last few years. i would expect them to announce other things there. So Bring MacPro NOW!!!!:eek:

liv4Mac
Nov 7, 2007, 12:33 PM
Ok, Penryn chips will be available on nov 11th. Motherboards and memory chips I assume are also ready. what about the unit as a whole?

The clovertown 8 core Mac Pros were out early because Apple just slipped it into their existing Mac Pros.

Since they have to build from ground up, do you guys really think that these Penryn based Mac Pros will be ready by Nov 13 just a couple of days after the release of these Penryn chips?

nitrokev
Nov 7, 2007, 12:37 PM
We've got two new designers starting at the Beginning of December, I need the Mac Pro to be released next week, but I'm betting on January :(

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 12:41 PM
Ok, Penryn chips will be available on nov 11th. Motherboards and memory chips I assume are also ready. what about the unit as a whole?

The clovertown 8 core Mac Pros were out early because Apple just slipped it into their existing Mac Pros.

Since they have to build from ground up, do you guys really think that these Penryn based Mac Pros will be ready by Nov 13 just a couple of days after the release of these Penryn chips?

Obviously the various manufacturers have had samples in-house for their design teams to work with for months. The article I posted above showed Intel's own benchmarks of produced chips in April.

I would guess that Apple will open the store and take orders on Nov. 13, with 1st shipments set for 6 weeks or so after that. As I recall that is pretty much SOP for them.

SpinThis!
Nov 7, 2007, 12:47 PM
Yeah, pretty sure nvidia's linux drivers are fine. I am not sure why Apple just doens't use those.
You just can't compile a linux driver and have it magically work as a kernel extension in OS X. You actually end up rewriting most of the code anyway. (This is probably one reason why you don't see more linux osx86 hackers messing around with OS X on non-Apple hardware.... but that's a subject for another thread.)

liv4Mac
Nov 7, 2007, 12:48 PM
Obviously the various manufacturers have had samples in-house for their design teams to work with for months. The article I posted above showed Intel's own benchmarks of produced chips in April.

I would guess that Apple will open the store and take orders on Nov. 13, with 1st shipments set for 6 weeks or so after that. As I recall that is pretty much SOP for them.

I certainly hope so, because I skipped the Clovertown 8 cores to wait for this and I'm ready to order. Although 6 months is quite a wait.

tk421
Nov 7, 2007, 12:50 PM
It was reported on several websites three weeks ago that Apple was placing large orders for Intel Harpertown Xeons...Report ;) ?

There was a rumour from one source that was copied on several Mac sites - nothing confirmed or even second-sourced.

So what's your point? One of the definitions of "reported" is "To relate or tell about."

It should be clear in context that Wild-Bill was responding to someone's comment that their have been no rumors about Mac Pros. He was relating or telling about one rumor.

Oh, and you might be interested in one of the definitions of report: "Common talk; rumor or gossip: According to report, they eloped."

Setmose
Nov 7, 2007, 12:52 PM
I certainly hope so, because I skipped the Clovertown 8 cores to wait for this and I'm ready to order. Although 6 months is quite a wait.

I'm ready too. Now I just have to figure out how I am going to afford this! :rolleyes:

digitalbiker
Nov 7, 2007, 12:53 PM
Obviously the various manufacturers have had samples in-house for their design teams to work with for months. The article I posted above showed Intel's own benchmarks of produced chips in April.

I would guess that Apple will open the store and take orders on Nov. 13, with 1st shipments set for 6 weeks or so after that. As I recall that is pretty much SOP for them.

Either that or Apple will debut the new Mac Pro at MWSF in January 2008. My guess is that Apple will wait until MWSF to offer the Penryn Mac Pro but it might be available for immediate delivery.

twoodcc
Nov 7, 2007, 12:57 PM
well now, next tuesday may be very interesting indeed ;)

milo
Nov 7, 2007, 12:58 PM
If I were to decide to buy a bunch of the HPs - it would probably be mid-December before I could get the config info, get quotes, get approval from finance, and issue a Purchase Order to HP.

Your comment might make sense for the consumer systems sitting on Best Buy shelves, but HP is doing the right thing for my planning and purchasing process.

That's assuming they are actually able to deliver when they promise. If they can't, then what they're doing is worse than not announcing early.

rhpenguin
Nov 7, 2007, 01:17 PM
Conroe/Kentsfield - Apple missing in action

Conroe's are sweet... I <3 my E6600 :)


Best CPU I've ever owned.

thedudeAbides
Nov 7, 2007, 01:21 PM
maybe apple is just doing some final comparisons of penryn to the 4.7 ghz power6 cpu from ibm. you know, just to make ibm feel better now that apple has a higher market capitalization.

you knew someone would bring up ibm.


thedudeabides

bradc
Nov 7, 2007, 01:26 PM
Don't forget that there were rumors a while back about Apple paying big bucks to secure top speed Penryn chips to ensure it had sufficient quantity. Thats the kinds of things Apple is doing with that $15B cashpile it has - paying up front to ensure it gets first crack at the newest fastest chips. Its probably why HP and Lenovo aren't shipping until January - Apple gets most of the penryn xeons until then.

Good point, cash is king. Most of these deals are done by payments 25% up front, 25% during tooling and 50% on delivery. Something like that, so with AAPL rocking the stock market and lots of cash, they could potentially pay say 75% up front thus taking up the first production batches. Interesting how the tables have turned in 10years.

gugy
Nov 7, 2007, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirOmega
Don't forget that there were rumors a while back about Apple paying big bucks to secure top speed Penryn chips to ensure it had sufficient quantity. Thats the kinds of things Apple is doing with that $15B cashpile it has - paying up front to ensure it gets first crack at the newest fastest chips. Its probably why HP and Lenovo aren't shipping until January - Apple gets most of the penryn xeons until then.

Good point, cash is king. Most of these deals are done by payments 25% up front, 25% during tooling and 50% on delivery. Something like that, so with AAPL rocking the stock market and lots of cash, they could potentially pay say 75% up front thus taking up the first production batches. Interesting how the tables have turned in 10years.

Very true, that's why I am confident we will see the new MacPro's this year.
Apple has been working on it for awhile and they will be probably be ready to ship next week.

p33
Nov 7, 2007, 02:17 PM
I always thought that Apple would be a market leader...

You thought wrong.

I guess those days are gone.


You guess right :)

darwen
Nov 7, 2007, 02:40 PM
And now I know the full story. Thanks for filling in all the holes you left in your original post.

Arguing online is sorta like being in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you still are retarded.

gugy
Nov 7, 2007, 02:47 PM
Arguing online is sorta like being in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you still are retarded.

hahahahaha
that's very funny and cruel too:eek::D

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 03:29 PM
The clovertown 8 core Mac Pros were out early because Apple just slipped it into their existing Mac Pros.

Apple could have slipped quad Clovertowns into their existing Mac Pros in December 2006 like the other vendors.

Putting them in five months later in May 2007 isn't what I'd call "out early" ;)

psychofreak
Nov 7, 2007, 03:31 PM
Good eye!

Cut straight from Amazon:

Purchase by: Postmarked by: Rebate amount:

11/12/07 12/12/07 $150.00

Total Rebate Savings: $150.00
Amazon is just speculating like we are...they have no info, in fact they made mistakes earlier on in speculating the release of iWork and iLife 08...

Roy
Nov 7, 2007, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Roy
And now I know the full story. Thanks for filling in all the holes you left in your original post.

Arguing online is sorta like being in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you still are retarded.

It was a request for more information on the previous post. And you do see where I said "Thanks".:)

Eidorian
Nov 7, 2007, 03:36 PM
When has Apple announced any new design from Intel even on the same day as the other manufacturers? Those days aren't "gone", they never existed except as a fanboy myth.

The only thing that even comes close is that 5 months after other manufacturers were shipping quad Clovertowns, Apple started shipping Clovertowns that were one notch faster than the top published speed. Not a new design, just a faster bin.

Later, of course, we find out that Apple is using older 150 watt versions of the Clovertown - and that the other vendors passed on using that chip and waited for the faster, cooler 120 watt "G0 stepping" version. Also note that the 150 watt chips were available from some of the smaller vendors at about the same time as Apple.

Other dates:

Yonah - Apple announced a week after most of the other vendors.

Merom - How about http://digg.com/apple/MacBook_Pro_NO...ntel_Marketing

Woodcrest - Intel announces 26 June, Apple releases Mac Pro 7 August

Conroe/Kentsfield - Apple missing in action

http://support.apple.com/specs/

MWSF 2006 - MacBook Pro announced
MWSF 2004 - Xserve G5 and Xserve RAID (SFP) announced
MWSF 2003 - PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 2001 - PowerMac G4 and PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 1999 - PowerMac G3 announced

It looks like the pattern is every other year for a Pro announcement - so MWSF 2008 is due!Thanks for the recap on Apple history.

Not that the posts are anything new from you. ;)

I can't wait to see what Apple has in store for November 13th if anything at all. They should be happy I bought my MacBook though.

andy721
Nov 7, 2007, 03:46 PM
they need to hurry up I need a new mac soon, I been using this piece of ****** for 7years.
I hope the new mac pros come out nov 12th, or Im :eek:a kill someone.

G4DP
Nov 7, 2007, 04:26 PM
My G4 is starting to die. It's been a very good servent over the year, it's done 2 degrees worth of work plus 4 years of relatively heavy deign use. I need a new MacPro.

Pleae Apple give us a new Workstation.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 04:56 PM
Not that the posts are anything new from you. ;)

Maybe there needs to be an "Apple Myths" thread that we can just point people to when these topics come up again! :D

Eidorian
Nov 7, 2007, 05:01 PM
Maybe theire needs to be an "Apple Myths" thread that we can just point people to when these topics come up again! :DWiki/Guides time?

andy721
Nov 7, 2007, 06:28 PM
hahahahaha
that's very funny and cruel too:eek::D

Thats kinda like the opposite of Christopher Reeves, Christopher Walken they are both real people :D:eek:

XIpenek
Nov 7, 2007, 06:57 PM
I will buy a mac pro on friday i am tierd to wait anyway the guess the price will be expensive as soon they put the news one and also i dont think than the macbook pro of 1.999 have more than 2,4 GHz :p or what do you guys recomend me to do? since if i buy on friday i will buy a macbook pro else i will only be able to buy after a macbook

Rocketman
Nov 7, 2007, 09:37 PM
perhaps simply a tag line in his signature?

anyhow...

rocket - are you going to buy asap or wait?

I agree with the sig disclaimer.

I just bought a MacBook and will "initiate it" when 10.5.1 becomes available. My favorite computer is still the OS 9.2 PB G4 Ti 400 Rev A. Steve's fav too. It has a reset button in the back and IR capability!!

Once the MB SR with 10.5.x is proven stable I will be buying 2 (or more) for employees. I posted that fact to MR and several folks said, "I'll work for you if only you'll buy me a MB too." I informed those folks of the job description in public and I had no takers. Rocket geeks are freaks.

I do not intend to buy a MP. However after X-serve is updated to Octo we may buy a "small" cluster of perhaps 8-12 U.

Rocketman

MacinDoc
Nov 7, 2007, 09:44 PM
Apple may not be the first to announce Penryn-based systems, but I'd be willing to bet that it will be the first to ship them in bulk.

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 10:39 PM
Apple may not be the first to announce Penryn-based systems, but I'd be willing to bet that it will be the first to ship them in bulk.

If you lose - will you FedEx me a Mac Pro once they finally ship?

:eek::D

MacinDoc
Nov 7, 2007, 10:57 PM
If you lose - will you FedEx me a Mac Pro once they finally ship?

:eek::D
So, you want to take that bet, do you?

But what would you do with a Mac Pro anyway? Oh, let me guess, you'd use it as a Windows server...

AidenShaw
Nov 7, 2007, 10:59 PM
So, you want to take that bet, do you?

But what would you do with a Mac Pro anyway? Oh, let me guess, you'd use it as a Windows server...

Clearly - since I have a mini-tower quad core under my desk.... :)

maxpower13
Nov 8, 2007, 03:23 AM
Well, I just canceled an order I had for a macbook pro. I will wait until whatever is coming is announced. I hope it's soon as I would love to have my new for Christmas break... but I can't justify buying a 3k computer with all these rumors floating around. Hope I'm doing the right thing...?

babboxy
Nov 8, 2007, 03:45 AM
Dear Roy,

I presumed due to this being a MacPro thread, that people would be able assume that I was talking about the MacPro. Funnily enough I actually thought people here were able to think for themselves, not needing to be told every single detail.

Just for you lets start again from the beginning.

Yesterday afternoon, I was browsing on the Apple online store, I added a standard configuration MacPro to the basket and saved this order for future reference. I then logged off, made dinner, watched some TV and went to bed.

Now on to today, I went for a walk took the dog for a walk. I get back in the door and 10 minutes later a member of staff from Apple in Ireland asked me about the order for a MacPro saved in my basket. He asked what I was waiting for I told him about the possible Penryn update to the MacPro next week. He said fine. To give him a call towards the end of next week and see what can be done about a possible discount.

Is that condescending enough for you?

Kindest regards.

you forgot to mention what sort of dog you have :D

lostngone
Nov 8, 2007, 03:55 AM
I want it NOW!!

I don't think Apple would just release this quietly like they did the Macbooks so do we have any Apple events coming up between now and NWSF? Unfortunately I would have to put my money on MWSF :mad:

G4DP
Nov 8, 2007, 04:04 AM
you forgot to mention what sort of dog you have :D

For future reference the dog is a German Shepherd.

Lotngone, jut becaue we don't know about Apple having any media events doesn't mean they don't have them planned. With the iPhone coming out in Europe tomorrow they are more than likely jut getting that out of the way first.

Well hopefully anyway.

Corozive
Nov 8, 2007, 05:09 AM
I just had the same thing happen to me, an apple rep just called regarding a saved order for a mac pro i had sitting in my basket that i put there last night.

Maybe apple care about their pro users? if i just shelled out over 3 grand for a new system and a better one was released days after i would be obviously jealous and sad.

maybe they want to keep us all happy by warning us about a possible update. it make me wonder if the reason that hp and lenovo are releasing there in 2008 is due to apple having grabbed all the processors first and will announce a ship date very soon, why else phone people, if they are also not out until 2008

headfuzz
Nov 8, 2007, 08:10 AM
My favorite computer is still the OS 9.2 PB G4 Ti 400 Rev A. Steve's fav too. It has a reset button in the back and IR capability!!

That was my first Mac! :)

Rocketman
Nov 8, 2007, 08:51 AM
I just had the same thing happen to me, an apple rep just called regarding a saved order for a mac pro i had sitting in my basket that i put there last night.

Maybe apple care about their pro users? if i just shelled out over 3 grand for a new system and a better one was released days after i would be obviously jealous and sad.

maybe they want to keep us all happy by warning us about a possible update. it make me wonder if the reason that hp and lenovo are releasing there in 2008 is due to apple having grabbed all the processors first and will announce a ship date very soon, why else phone people, if they are also not out until 2008

What did they specifically want to know? If they are just assuring new features align with your stated needs, the questions they ask would be revealing.

Rocketman

Roy
Nov 8, 2007, 10:24 AM
I just had the same thing happen to me, an apple rep just called regarding a saved order for a mac pro i had sitting in my basket that i put there last night.

Maybe apple care about their pro users? if i just shelled out over 3 grand for a new system and a better one was released days after i would be obviously jealous and sad.

maybe they want to keep us all happy by warning us about a possible update. it make me wonder if the reason that hp and lenovo are releasing there in 2008 is due to apple having grabbed all the processors first and will announce a ship date very soon, why else phone people, if they are also not out until 2008


And what warning did they give you?

gugy
Nov 8, 2007, 11:12 AM
Well, I just canceled an order I had for a macbook pro. I will wait until whatever is coming is announced. I hope it's soon as I would love to have my new for Christmas break... but I can't justify buying a 3k computer with all these rumors floating around. Hope I'm doing the right thing...?

Macbook pro was just updated last week with a faster chip. I do not see anything happening to it until after the MWSF. I think it is pretty safe for you to buy now.

Wild-Bill
Nov 8, 2007, 11:15 AM
Macbook pro was just updated last week with a faster chip. I do not see anything happening to it until after the MWSF. I think it is pretty safe for you to buy now.

I think he might have been referring to cancelling a MBP order because of the impending (hopefully) Mac Pro refresh. Kinda hard to tell in his post, but when he mentions the $3k price tag I assume he meant Mac Pro.

Tuesday will be either very interesting or very vexing.

CWallace
Nov 8, 2007, 11:15 AM
We're an all HP shop and we constantly eval their new goodies, so chances are I'll be playing with an xw6600 and xw8600 shortly after they are made available, but alas I'm not much of a Photoshop user...

gugy
Nov 8, 2007, 11:24 AM
TUESDAY COME FAST!!!!!!!

I need a new Mac Pro for my business. My Quad G5 is done. Still a fast computer but it has been a lemon with so many issues. time to go G5!

Wild-Bill
Nov 8, 2007, 11:35 AM
TUESDAY COME FAST!!!!!!!

I need a new Mac Pro for my business. My Quad G5 is done. Still a fast computer but it has been a lemon with so many issues. time to go G5!

Guess you need to take the long way to the Apple Store with that gaping hole in the road from the landslide, eh??? :p:p

gugy
Nov 8, 2007, 11:37 AM
Guess you need to take the long way to the Apple Store with that gaping hole in the road from the landslide, eh??? :p:p

you bet I do.:D:eek:

XIpenek
Nov 8, 2007, 05:52 PM
Do you guys think than it will come on 12 ? and will the price go up or?
would be great if someone could answer me that since i am thinking to buy a macbook pro of 2,2 on monday or should i go and buy it

TripleCore
Nov 8, 2007, 06:35 PM
Do you guys think than it will come on 12 ? and will the price go up or?
would be great if someone could answer me that since i am thinking to buy a macbook pro of 2,2 on monday or should i go and buy it

The release date is a "rumor". Make purchasing decisions based on rumors at your own risk.

If it is a really urgent project you need it for, then buy a computer for that and don't wait. Otherwise, why not just wait another week or two?

If you buy Monday and something new appears Tuesday, would you be happy with that?

EagerDragon
Nov 8, 2007, 07:14 PM
I will buy a mac pro on friday i am tierd to wait anyway the guess the price will be expensive as soon they put the news one and also i dont think than the macbook pro of 1.999 have more than 2,4 GHz :p or what do you guys recomend me to do? since if i buy on friday i will buy a macbook pro else i will only be able to buy after a macbook

If you buy on Friday we will probably get new ones on Tuesday, Apple is waiting for you to put the money down.
LOL

AidenShaw
Nov 8, 2007, 07:44 PM
...answer me that since i am thinking to buy a macbook pro of 2,2 on monday or should i go and buy it

There won't be new internals in a MacBook or MacBook Pro before mid-January at the earliest - and then it will probably just be the MBP that's updated with the new Penryn mobile CPU.

The 12th is the date for the Xeon CPUs used in the Mac Pro maxi-tower to be announced.

Therefore, no new laptop news next week.

For the Mac Pro, several possible scenarios:


announcement next week, shipping within a month (like the HP systems)
announcement mid December, shipping right away
announcement at MacWorld SF in mid January, shipping right away


Apple probably won't lose any Mac Pro sales if they announce on Tuesday and ship in mid December - anyone who does the slightest research will know that the Woodcrest/Clovertown has had its 15 months of fame, and all the rags are full of stories about Penryn.

XIpenek
Nov 8, 2007, 07:54 PM
agree thanx for your opinion guys

btw do you think than the price will go up or will be same?

AidenShaw
Nov 8, 2007, 08:04 PM
agree thanx for your opinion guys

btw do you think than the price will go up or will be same?

Intel's mode of operation for the last several hundred (computer) years is that new parts come in at about the same price as the old stuff, and the old stuff becomes much cheaper.

Apple's mode of operation has been for the new stuff to stay the same price, but not to lower the price of the older stuff that's using the much cheaper parts.

So, for the Mac Pro, expect more power/features for about the same price points.

For the MacBook Pro (in January), expect more power/features at about the same price points. For the MacBook (in January), do not expect a price drop even though Intel drops the prices of the MacBook components by 50% when Penryn comes out.

XIpenek
Nov 8, 2007, 08:15 PM
i enter to university on march so i better wait till end of January maybe paying 1,999 i get 2,5+ or so and a better model

XIpenek
Nov 8, 2007, 08:24 PM
lets see what news we get on tuesday :P

Wild-Bill
Nov 8, 2007, 08:29 PM
lets see what news we get on tuesday :P

There will be NO news on an updated Macbook Pro on Tuesday XIpenek. This thread is about Mac Pro workstations speculation, not Macbook Pros.

cwc123188
Nov 8, 2007, 08:34 PM
There won't be new internals in a MacBook or MacBook Pro before mid-January at the earliest - and then it will probably just be the MBP that's updated with the new Penryn mobile CPU.

The 12th is the date for the Xeon CPUs used in the Mac Pro maxi-tower to be announced.

Therefore, no new laptop news next week.

For the Mac Pro, several possible scenarios:


announcement next week, shipping within a month (like the HP systems)
announcement mid December, shipping right away
announcement at MacWorld SF in mid January, shipping right away


Apple probably won't lose any Mac Pro sales if they announce on Tuesday and ship in mid December - anyone who does the slightest research will know that the Woodcrest/Clovertown has had its 15 months of fame, and all the rags are full of stories about Penryn.

So do you think Apple will not get enough Penryn Xeons from Intel for a November shipping date? How about the top-of-the-line that have been rumored taken by Apple? Did you base your prediction on the fact that HP isn't getting them until January or is there something I missed? :)

I also just noticed that MR forum has become such a hostile environment- especially in the near-2000 thread. The mods can't allow a joke that has a little potential of "stirring things up". Oh well, I ain't the boss but I just wish this is not the future for MR.:(

AidenShaw
Nov 8, 2007, 08:53 PM
So do you think Apple will not get enough Penryn Xeons from Intel for a November shipping date? How about the top-of-the-line that have been rumored taken by Apple? Did you base your prediction on the fact that HP isn't getting them until January or is there something I missed? :)

I think that it's a *very* bad sign that HP and Lenovo are quoting minimum 5 to 8 week availability.

In the past, during shortages (and early product ramps) Intel has allocated the available chips fairly according to the vendors' orders (for example, if Vendor A ordered 100,000 and Vendor B ordered 50,000 - then if only 15,000 were available A would get 10,000 and B would get 5,000).

The ramp for the faster speeds often lags the others - so it hasn't been unusual that the fast chips are in much shorter supply than the mid-range.

I don't find the rumours that Apple has snapped them all up to be believable.

After Monday we'll have a better idea about the Penryn ramp up, and maybe even an announcement from Cupertino to digest.

John Musbach
Nov 8, 2007, 10:27 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Electronista reports (http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/07/hp.penryn.xeon.desktops/) that HP has upgraded their workstations with the new Intel Penryn Xeon processors. The new 45-nm Xeon 5200 (dual core) and Xeon 5400 (quad core) processors can be configured in dual-processor configurations (up to 8 cores total).

Yesterday, Lenovo announced (http://www.lenovo.com/news/us/en/2007/11/thinkstation.html) their first machines powered by the Intel Xeon 5400 processors.

Intel will be officially launching the Penryn processors on November 12th. Apple is expected (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/penryn-based-mac-pros-soon/) to adopt the new procesors in a revision to the Mac Pro. The new Mac Pro is rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/18/penryn-based-mac-pros-soon/) to be ready to launch as soon as enough Intel processors become available.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/07/first-intel-penryn-based-pcs-arrive-apple-to-follow/)
I can't wait for this upgrade, it'll only make the Mac Pro's that much better :)

spetznatz
Nov 9, 2007, 06:10 AM
So, any idea if these 45 nm parts are pin-compatible with the current 65 nm parts? I wouldn't mind having a pop at dropping a pair in my Mac Pro.

Anyone got pricing for them?

Anyone know if the current 65 nm dual- and quad-core processors are in for a price drop?

Umbongo
Nov 9, 2007, 06:50 AM
So, any idea if these 45 nm parts are pin-compatible with the current 65 nm parts? I wouldn't mind having a pop at dropping a pair in my Mac Pro.

They are, or at least Intel said they were and there hasn't been anything discounting it.

Anyone got pricing for them?

Prices out there at the moment on retailer websites show 3.16GHz for $1300, 3GHz for $950, 2.83GHz for $850 and 2GHz for $255. They may not drop for a while depending on supply. Better to look in a couple of weeks.

Anyone know if the current 65 nm dual- and quad-core processors are in for a price drop?

There has been no indication, you may be able to pick one up cheaper in the near future though.

spetznatz
Nov 9, 2007, 06:57 AM
Thanks, umbongo --

Those prices are for the quad-core version, I take it?

Umbongo
Nov 9, 2007, 07:56 AM
Yeah they are.

AidenShaw
Nov 9, 2007, 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by spetznatz
So, any idea if these 45 nm parts are pin-compatible with the current 65 nm parts? I wouldn't mind having a pop at dropping a pair in my Mac Pro.

They are, or at least Intel said they were and there hasn't been anything discounting it.

Not only Intel has to support it, but Apple has to as well.

On the Intel side, the best thing would be to go to the Intel server board site (http://www.intel.com/products/server/motherboard/index.htm?iid=mbd_main+sv) next week and look for the "5400" chipset boards.

Once those appear, you can assume that Intel has updated their pages. Look for the boards with the "5000X" chipset (that's whats in the Mac Pro), and see if the new 45nm Xeons are listed as supported by the 5000X.

You might see a footnote that the 5000X has to be at least a certain hardware rev and firmware rev.

That footnote is the clue that Apple might not support the chip. Earlier Mac Pros might not have the right hardware revision, if you have one of those you might be out of luck. If a firmware bump is required - again you depend on Apple.

Note that is very common for firmware (BIOS/EFI) revisions to be required for new processors. The new CPU has a new CPUID, and many BIOS programs check the CPUID and won't run if it's an unrecognized CPU. Sometimes the firmware patch is only to add the new CPUID to the table of supported CPUs - but without that simple patch it won't boot.

Since the Penryn has new instructions and new power management functions, you might not get the benefit of those even if by chance the old firmware accepts the chip. (Chips typically boot in a compatible mode, and require the firmware and operating system to explicitly enable new features. A Clovertown in an HP system, for example, can boot 16-bit MS-DOS from a floppy drive - at power-on it starts in 16-bit mode with 640 KiB of RAM. You may be booting a 64-bit operating system with 32 GiB, but the various BIOS/boot loaders/OS initialization routines turn that stuff on as they load.)
______________

All things considered, I'd look at the price of the new CPUs, the price of a new Mac Pro, and the value of your old Mac Pro on eBay.

It may be cheaper to get a new box - then you'd have a faster, newer machine with a full new warranty. (Faster because the Seaburg (5400) chipset has a better, faster memory system.)

andy721
Nov 9, 2007, 08:56 AM
To the conclusion of this thread, they had this out last year,
They received enough for November shipping, they will be release this week.

AidenShaw
Nov 9, 2007, 09:07 AM
To the conclusion of this thread, they had this out last year,
They received enough for November shipping, they will be release this week.

Andy,

Come back next week, after you hear nothing from Cupertino.


The HP/Lenovo ship dates make me believe that a MWSF announcement in January looks quite possible

Wild-Bill
Nov 9, 2007, 09:28 AM
The HP/Lenovo ship dates make me believe that a MWSF announcement in January looks quite possible

I think the HP/Lenovo ship dates indicate that Apple has cornered the majority of Intel's Harpertowns inititally, forcing the other vendors to ship later. Apple will ship next week.

AidenShaw
Nov 9, 2007, 09:46 AM
I think the HP/Lenovo ship dates indicate that Apple has cornered the majority of Intel's Harpertowns inititally, forcing the other vendors to ship later. Apple will ship next week.

Hector Ruiz hopes that you are correct.

gugy
Nov 9, 2007, 10:50 AM
Apple will ship next week.

That's what I want to hear, baby! :D

tivoli2
Nov 9, 2007, 12:10 PM
The HP/Lenovo ship dates make me believe that a MWSF announcement in January looks quite possible

Apple will ship next week.

Hector Ruiz hopes that you are correct.

While I fear Aiden is correct about MWSF, add me to the list that hopes you are correct as well... although I don't catch the meaning of the Hector Ruiz reference... would this be good for AMD as well? (Sorry for needing to be hand-held...;))

What are the chances of ability to be able to choose from more of the aftermarket cards?

andy721
Nov 9, 2007, 12:15 PM
Andy,

Come back next week, after you hear nothing from Cupertino.


The HP/Lenovo ship dates make me believe that a MWSF announcement in January looks quite possible

Quite possible for the macbook pros but different for the macpros.

AidenShaw
Nov 9, 2007, 12:52 PM
... although I don't catch the meaning of the Hector Ruiz reference... would this be good for AMD as well?

If Intel ticks off HP/Dell/IBM and the others by giving all the Penryns to Apple - you'll see a lot of Barcelonas showing up in x64 servers.

Unlike Apple, the other guys have a choice and will punish Intel in the order department.

P.s. I don't think that there's much chance of Apple grabbing all the chips - Intel will allocate based on orders, and the other guys buy a *LOT* more Xeons than Apple.

Apple's share of the x64 server market is almost sliver thin - most of the CPUs that Apple buys are laptop CPUs.

AidenShaw
Nov 9, 2007, 02:39 PM
I think the HP/Lenovo ship dates indicate that Apple has cornered the majority of Intel's Harpertowns inititally, forcing the other vendors to ship later. Apple will ship next week.

Even the unsupported rumours were about high-end chips - what a leap to believe that Apple's taking all the slow chips too...

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/05/apple-buying-up-high-end-penryn-processors/

Apple Buying Up High End Penryn Processors?
Friday October 05, 2007 05:19 PM EST
Posted by arn

The Inquirer reports on rumors circulating around Tokyo about Apple's interest in high end Penryn processors for their upcoming Mac Pros.

According to the rumors, Apple has "pre-booked" all the top (3.2GHz) Penryn bins for this year, leaving only "minimum quantities" for other big vendors. The 3.2GHz Penryn Xeon ("Harpertown") processors offer a faster 1600MHz bus and 12MB of L2 cache. The quad-core processors could provide Apple with an upgrade path for their current Mac Pro line which has not seen major upgrades since August of 2006.

tivoli2
Nov 9, 2007, 03:45 PM
If Intel ticks off HP/Dell/IBM and the others by giving all the Penryns to Apple - you'll see a lot of Barcelonas showing up in x64 servers.

Oh - makes sense. Sheesh - shows how Apple-centric I am. What, there're other manufacturers out there? ;)

twitch
Nov 9, 2007, 05:05 PM
I've wanted a mac pro forever....

First the 8 core machines were on the horizon so i waited....

Then when they came out, the video cards were already outdated and component prices were kindof inflated compared to other vendors due to the machines specs showing age, and leopard was on the horizon.... so i waited...

Then leopard came out, and the pro was totally overpriced as all it's components had become much cheaper in the two years since in was new.... not to mention it's obsolete video options. It hadn't had a refresh in forever, and a refresh was on the horizon.... so i'm still waiting....

I'd cave and buy one now, because i could really use it for my productivity, but the other kicker is I'm in Canada and our dollar is worth $1.10 american and a Canadian ordered mac pro costs ast least $450 more than the U.S. one.... Not much sense in that when there's free trade on components.... (isn't there?) I'd gladly pay $50 on top of the american price for shipping or something, but not $400+

If they'd fix the prices I'd considering buying one now.... I can't justify $3000 on a base spec machine from 2006 though...... After waiting this long though i might as well just keep waiting....

If they don't fix the exchange rate when they refresh the product it's gonna be such a kick in the teeth after this long wait...

On the other hand, it's nice for the current pro owners that apple doesn't rush into releases with the hardware... at least you can feel 'current' for a while :-p

andy721
Nov 9, 2007, 05:28 PM
I've wanted a mac pro forever....

First the 8 core machines were on the horizon so i waited....

Then when they came out, the video cards were already outdated and component prices were kindof inflated compared to other vendors due to the machines specs showing age, and leopard was on the horizon.... so i waited...

Then leopard came out, and the pro was totally overpriced as all it's components had become much cheaper in the two years since in was new.... not to mention it's obsolete video options. It hadn't had a refresh in forever, and a refresh was on the horizon.... so i'm still waiting....

I'd cave and buy one now, because i could really use it for my productivity, but the other kicker is I'm in Canada and our dollar is worth $1.10 american and a Canadian ordered mac pro costs ast least $450 more than the U.S. one.... Not much sense in that when there's free trade on components.... (isn't there?) I'd gladly pay $50 on top of the american price for shipping or something, but not $400+

If they'd fix the prices I'd considering buying one now.... I can't justify $3000 on a base spec machine from 2006 though...... After waiting this long though i might as well just keep waiting....

If they don't fix the exchange rate when they refresh the product it's gonna be such a kick in the teeth after this long wait...

On the other hand, it's nice for the current pro owners that apple doesn't rush into releases with the hardware... at least you can feel 'current' for a while :-p

You can always do the US Education discount on apple

zdobson
Nov 9, 2007, 06:51 PM
If Intel ticks off HP/Dell/IBM and the others by giving all the Penryns to Apple - you'll see a lot of Barcelonas showing up in x64 servers.

Unlike Apple, the other guys have a choice and will punish Intel in the order department.

P.s. I don't think that there's much chance of Apple grabbing all the chips - Intel will allocate based on orders, and the other guys buy a *LOT* more Xeons than Apple.

I'm really torn here. Aiden, you seem to be the most knowledgeable person posting in this thread, but you're not telling me what I want to hear! You keep making great arguments for MWSF, so I keep trying to come up with counters.

1) How many more units does HP & the rest plan to sell over Apple? HP probably has a later ship date because they don't expect to have enough chips to meet initial orders, whereas maybe since Apple will sell a much smaller number of systems, they'll have enough chips to immediately ship.

2) If Apple did buy a large number of the first bin (I know it's just a rumor at this point) would the other companies really be that mad at Intel? I mean, do you think Apple having the latest chip available 1 month earlier is going to make the other guys shun Intel? If Apple ships first by a month, would that cause anyone to switch platforms? I doubt it. If I have to wait until February, God forbid, for a Penryn MacPro, then I have to wait. I'm not switching to HP because I can get one in Dec/Jan.

Besides, isn't Intel vastly superior to its competition? If so, then they have the upper hand and can do whatever they want.

Thoughts, anyone?

Dont Hurt Me
Nov 9, 2007, 07:01 PM
I agree, the Intels are just superior and with this new 45nm shooting star cpu its just going to blow away AMD. Im wrestling with just waiting. Sure would love to see another QuicksilverI type redo and thats a base PowerMac that you could call a Consumer Tower. Its whats needed if Apple is to stingy to give us a consumer tower. Anyways the new benches for this chip are terrific.:apple:

thechidz
Nov 9, 2007, 07:10 PM
I suspect penryn based macbook pros will come in december/january. Seems like a logical progression.

if this happens I buy in February... happy birthday to me:D:apple:

AidenShaw
Nov 9, 2007, 08:53 PM
1) How many more units does HP & the rest plan to sell over Apple?

About 1.2 million Xeon dual socket servers are sold per quarter. How many Mac Pros + Xserves?

20K? 50K? (Apple does not disclose these numbers)

The Mac Pro is a noise item on Intel's Xeon financial statement.


1)Besides, isn't Intel vastly superior to its competition? If so, then they have the upper hand and can do whatever they want.

Not so, Barcelona beats Woodcrest/Clovertown in many areas, and is neck-and-neck with Wolfdale/Harpertown in many. Intel's latest is more-or-less better than AMD - the term "vastly superior" seldom applies to microprocessors in general.

Intel was arrogant for a while, and AMD had a couple of lucky (or good engineering) breaks - and 18 months ago AMD was flying and Intel was hurting. Today Intel is flying and AMD is hurting.

The tables will turn, and there will be times when AMD stuff is better than any Intel stuff. And then the tables will turn again, and Intel is the top frog. "Leapfrogging" is the norm in this business.

You'll probably see AMD CPUs in Apples someday, and then a year or two later - all Intel again.

But, most people won't care - because you can't tell if the CPU is an AMD or an Intel without checking the profiler.

zdobson
Nov 9, 2007, 09:49 PM
About 1.2 million Xeon dual socket servers are sold per quarter. How many Mac Pros + Xserves?

20K? 50K? (Apple does not disclose these numbers)

The Mac Pro is a noise item on Intel's Xeon financial statement.


That's what I'm getting at. How many penyrns might Intel possibly have available? 500,000? 1 million? Since Apple has such a small number of the total market, if they could get their hands on only 10% or 5% of those available, wouldn't they be able to fill their needs?

spetznatz
Nov 10, 2007, 04:24 AM
Not only Intel has to support it, but Apple has to as well.

On the Intel side, the best thing would be to go to the Intel server board site (http://www.intel.com/products/server/motherboard/index.htm?iid=mbd_main+sv) next week and look for the "5400" chipset boards.

[SNIP]

All things considered, I'd look at the price of the new CPUs, the price of a new Mac Pro, and the value of your old Mac Pro on eBay.

It may be cheaper to get a new box - then you'd have a faster, newer machine with a full new warranty. (Faster because the Seaburg (5400) chipset has a better, faster memory system.)

Thanks, for the informative reply, Aiden. At least the older 65 nm quad-core parts are a direct drop-in (and will probably be cheaper).

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=3

AidenShaw
Nov 10, 2007, 09:39 AM
That's what I'm getting at. How many penyrns might Intel possibly have available? 500,000? 1 million? Since Apple has such a small number of the total market, if they could get their hands on only 10% or 5% of those available, wouldn't they be able to fill their needs?

Intel usually allocates shipments based on the confirmed orders.

If Intel has hard orders for 2.4 million chips, and only has 240,000 - then Intel sends each buyer 10% of what they ordered.

If Apple ordered 40,000 - they'd get 4,000. If HP ordered a million, they'd get 100,000. Intel wouldn't give Apple 36,000 from HP's allotment.

Perhaps, however, Intel has set price tiers by delivery date. If that's the case, then it's possible that Apple could "outbid" the other vendors for early shipments. That's a "fair" way for Apple to ship early.

Note that Intel really has to treat similar customers the same - especially with the anti-trust issues that they face due to an overwhelming marketshare. It would not only be bad business to favor some customers, it could be illegal.

AidenShaw
Nov 10, 2007, 09:49 AM
Thanks, for the informative reply, Aiden. At least the older 65 nm quad-core parts are a direct drop-in (and will probably be cheaper).

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=3

Very good point. For a period of time after the new Harpertown quads are introduced, the old Clovertown quads will be available at a much lower price.

That's a great time to upgrade an older dual-dual system to dual-quads.

Don't wait too long, though. The Clovertown supply will dry up before too long, and you won't be able to find them at a reasonable price.

Eidorian
Nov 10, 2007, 09:51 AM
Very good point. For a period of time after the new Harpertown quads are introduced, the old Clovertown quads will be available at a much lower price.

That's a great time to upgrade an older dual-dual system to dual-quads.

Don't wait too long, though. The Clovertown supply will dry up before too long, and you won't be able to find them at a reasonable price.I wonder why the original Conroe components are still holding their value after the E4xx Series has caught up in clock speed and the E6x20/E6x50 are cheaper with more cache or the 1333 MHz FSB.

AidenShaw
Nov 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
I wonder why the original Conroe components are still holding their value after the E4xx Series has caught up in clock speed and the E6x20/E6x50 are cheaper with more cache or the 1333 MHz FSB.

I don't see the original Conroes on this price list:

http://www.centralcomputers.com/commerce/catalog/results.jsp;jsessionid=0CF67738BEBC22EC452CD3D148886DEB?sort=3&category_id=1082&czuid=1194714534953

That illustrates my point before, that there's a short window when the last generation is available cheaply.

The online and discount stores that cater to DIY system builders want to get rid of the old stock quickly. After several months, the only people who want the old CPUs are those who need one to replace a CPU in a particular motherboard or system - and they'll pay whatever the price is at that point in time.

For at least the last 10 years I've watched Intel, and whenever they've made my current CPU obsolete (new design, new socket, different memory,...) I look to buy the last, fastest model of the older generation in my system.

babboxy
Nov 11, 2007, 05:23 AM
any guess what graphic card they're going to use?

i'm definitely not buying a pc for gaming so I'll have to live with whatever the new mac pro has to offer... what would be a decent card? what's the most likely choice?!

takao
Nov 11, 2007, 05:41 AM
any guess what graphic card they're going to use?

i'm definitely not buying a pc for gaming so I'll have to live with whatever the new mac pro has to offer... what would be a decent card? what's the most likely choice?!

the 8800 GT would be the best price performance wise
clearly better than the GTS: cheaper, less power hungry and not as loud while being more than 15-20% faster and really close to the GTX up the 95% of the GTX performance at half the cost ... which means you can build a GT SLI combo for the price of 1 GTX .. only shortcoming of the GT is the 512 mb vram which limits on AA and AF on high resolutions (beating all ati cards though ;) )

in customer cards the obvious performance king is still the 8800 ultra (GTS and GTX are pointless since the GT release)


also ati has new cards coming out next 2 weeks or so going to compete with the 8800 GT


for the lower end (customers not caring about 3d) we might be more looking at 8600 stuff.. i doubt apple will go for cards elss than that sicne that would make the base imac models with the 2600 better than the Pro

just hope that they don't go with the x2900 from ATI as top customer solution ... it wasn't a performance monster to begin with and already outperformed today

babboxy
Nov 11, 2007, 05:58 AM
the 8800 GT would be the best price performance wise
...cross fingers :D

FireSlash
Nov 11, 2007, 07:40 AM
...cross fingers :D

The 8800GT is an amazing card for the price, (think: UT3 demo 1600x1200 fully cranked at 60fps solid on an old Opteron 165)

I can only imagine what this card could do with 8 cores of mac prownage :D

Dont Hurt Me
Nov 11, 2007, 07:46 AM
...cross fingers :DMy guess is one of the 2600 series Pro or XT only the full size Video card version for base machines. A 8800GT would be a nice option.

diamond.g
Nov 11, 2007, 08:24 AM
the 8800 GT would be the best price performance wise
clearly better than the GTS: cheaper, less power hungry and not as loud while being more than 15-20% faster and really close to the GTX up the 95% of the GTX performance at half the cost ... which means you can build a GT SLI combo for the price of 1 GTX .. only shortcoming of the GT is the 512 mb vram which limits on AA and AF on high resolutions (beating all ati cards though ;) )

in customer cards the obvious performance king is still the 8800 ultra (GTS and GTX are pointless since the GT release)


also ati has new cards coming out next 2 weeks or so going to compete with the 8800 GT


for the lower end (customers not caring about 3d) we might be more looking at 8600 stuff.. i doubt apple will go for cards elss than that sicne that would make the base imac models with the 2600 better than the Pro

just hope that they don't go with the x2900 from ATI as top customer solution ... it wasn't a performance monster to begin with and already outperformed today

That is odd, from what I have read so far is that the GT has to be sli'ed to reach GTX +some performance levels. All depending on what resolution you are using, to drive a 30" ACD at native rez requires at least a GTX. But the price performance level is crazy good.

Sannekita
Nov 11, 2007, 09:10 AM
If they change the case too, i'm ok with waiting until january...:D

babboxy
Nov 11, 2007, 09:51 AM
If they change the case too, i'm ok with waiting until january...:D

thew wouldn't update now and then change the case in january, would they?! :p

Wild-Bill
Nov 11, 2007, 10:31 AM
the 8800 GT would be the best price performance wise
clearly better than the GTS: cheaper, less power hungry and not as loud while being more than 15-20% faster and really close to the GTX up the 95% of the GTX performance at half the cost ... which means you can build a GT SLI combo for the price of 1 GTX ..

I have indicated the above ^ to Apple through the Mac Pro feedback section. The link is in my signature. Click it. Tell them what you think!

~Shard~
Nov 11, 2007, 12:11 PM
thew wouldn't update now and then change the case in january, would they?! :p

No, no they wouldn't...

AidenShaw
Nov 11, 2007, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by babboxy
thew wouldn't update now and then change the case in january, would they?!

No, no they wouldn't...

Of course, they *could* update the Mac Pro now, and introduce a new single socket mini-tower in January, with a single dual-core or quad core CPU.

Look at the Intel BoneTrail (http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/DX38BT/index.htm) motherboard to get an idea of what a cool machine that could be....

Just add room for two disks and a second optical, in a case half the size of the Mac Pro maxi-tower. Sweet.

DrGruv1
Nov 11, 2007, 12:54 PM
In one of steve's speaches he did talk about how they invested a lot of time in desktops (pre imac alum). So it would be great to finally address the mini tower issue - especially with the imac heat problem...

~Shard~
Nov 11, 2007, 01:00 PM
Of course, they *could* update the Mac Pro now, and introduce a new single socket mini-tower in January, with a single dual-core or quad core CPU.

Look at the Intel BoneTrail (http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/DX38BT/index.htm) motherboard to get an idea of what a cool machine that could be....

Just add room for two disks and a second optical, in a case half the size of the Mac Pro maxi-tower. Sweet.

You know I've always been totally on-board with you and the hope for a mini-tower Aiden - I'd love to see it become a reality! :D :cool:

Meemoo
Nov 12, 2007, 02:21 AM
The mini-tower is my dream. I'd sell a kidney to get one the day they shipped. 8GB of Fast non-ECC FBDIMM RAM max (half that of the mac Pro), 2 PCIe slots, 2 hard drive bays, one optical drive bay - all easily accessible. external power supply.

$1499 - no display included.

That wouldn't compete with the Mac Pro, would offer great power to universities who need power for FCS but can't afford Mac Pros. Also, people would clamor for it.

G4DP
Nov 12, 2007, 03:52 AM
Ys Steve did say they had invested a lot in desktops, bt what his talking about the tops of desks or computers? No-one knows.

Knowing Apple of late we're going to see the iDesk tomorrow.

takao
Nov 12, 2007, 04:45 AM
You know I've always been totally on-board with you and the hope for a mini-tower Aiden - I'd love to see it become a reality! :D :cool:

who wouldn't be on board with an additional mac with desktop components & midi sized case

AidenShaw
Nov 12, 2007, 06:32 AM
8GB of Fast non-ECC FBDIMM RAM max (half that of the mac Pro.

Two points to mention...

1. The X38 chipset can use DDR3 or DDR2 (in some mobos) ECC or non-ECC. It does not use the FB-DIMM memory of the Seaburg and Greencreek chipsets.

2. ECC memory is valuable when you have many GiB - it's so much nicer to have a kernel panic with the message "uncorrected memory error" than random crashes, hangs and data corruptions. Aiden always chooses ECC memory for his systems (except, unfortunately, it's not available for laptops).

Setmose
Nov 12, 2007, 07:29 AM
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139511/article.html

Intel will ship 12 new quad-core Intel Xeon 5400 server chips in November with clock speeds ranging from 2GHz to 3.20GHz, with a 12MB cache. In December, it will ship three dual-core Xeon 5200 server chips with clock speeds of up to 3.40GHz and a 6MB cache.

[Seems to line up with the various Apple rumors about buying-off the 3.2 GHz bins.]

darthraige
Nov 12, 2007, 07:36 AM
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139511/article.html

Intel will ship 12 new quad-core Intel Xeon 5400 server chips in November with clock speeds ranging from 2GHz to 3.20GHz, with a 12MB cache. In December, it will ship three dual-core Xeon 5200 server chips with clock speeds of up to 3.40GHz and a 6MB cache.

[Seems to line up with the various Apple rumors about buying-off the 3.2 GHz bins.]

You're about 10 hours too late. lol

Setmose
Nov 12, 2007, 08:10 AM
http://www.crn.com/hardware/202804891?pgno=2

The first two offerings of Penryn-family products include 16 new server and high-end PC processors, priced at between $177 and $1,279 in quantities of 1,000. Included in the mix released Monday are 12 quad-core Xeon 5400 processors with clock speeds ranging from 2.0GHz to 3.20GHz, FSB speeds up to 1600MHz and a 12MB cache...

Meanwhile, Intel is also launching three new platforms that support 45nm chips. These include the 5400 or "Stoakley" chipset for high-performance computing (HPC)...

["High Performance Computing", I like the sound of that. Will HPC spell a new bus architecture in Mac Pro?]

Setmose
Nov 12, 2007, 08:12 AM
You're about 10 hours too late. lol

Hey give us a break -- Jerusalem is 10 hours away from CA. ;)

slackpacker
Nov 12, 2007, 08:31 AM
the 8800 GT would be the best price performance wise
clearly better than the GTS: cheaper, less power hungry and not as loud while being more than 15-20% faster and really close to the GTX up the 95% of the GTX performance at half the cost ... which means you can build a GT SLI combo for the price of 1 GTX .. only shortcoming of the GT is the 512 mb vram which limits on AA and AF on high resolutions (beating all ati cards though ;) )



They currently don't work.... ggrr offically... Apple better support the 8800 Nvidia cards because the ATI cards are being eaten alive by them. Like the other posts I may have to just buy a cheap PC instead if Apple does not support the latest Graphics processors in the next revision of Mac Pro's. I want to kill two birds with one stone.. A gaming machine (Bootcamp) as well as my work machine (OSX)

~Shard~
Nov 12, 2007, 09:47 AM
who wouldn't be on board with an additional mac with desktop components & midi sized case

Apparently Apple... :rolleyes:

:p ;) :cool:

thedudeAbides
Nov 12, 2007, 10:00 AM
the 8800 GT would be the best price performance wise
clearly better than the GTS: cheaper, less power hungry and not as loud while being more than 15-20% faster and really close to the GTX up the 95% of the GTX performance at half the cost ... which means you can build a GT SLI combo for the price of 1 GTX .. only shortcoming of the GT is the 512 mb vram which limits on AA and AF on high resolutions (beating all ati cards though ;) )

in customer cards the obvious performance king is still the 8800 ultra (GTS and GTX are pointless since the GT release)


also ati has new cards coming out next 2 weeks or so going to compete with the 8800 GT


for the lower end (customers not caring about 3d) we might be more looking at 8600 stuff.. i doubt apple will go for cards elss than that sicne that would make the base imac models with the 2600 better than the Pro

just hope that they don't go with the x2900 from ATI as top customer solution ... it wasn't a performance monster to begin with and already outperformed today

Anandtech does an indepth review of the 8800 GT and the price/performance is amazing. it would be a natural for the mac pro as a base graphics card, with options for sli. does anyone know if there is or will be a mobile version of this card, potentially for the macbook pro or imac?

thedudeabides

Setmose
Nov 15, 2007, 10:10 AM
Oh well. Still checking daily to see what will happen.

Soon please!

sash
Nov 23, 2007, 09:36 AM
Oh well. Still checking daily to see what will happen.

Same here in Belgium! Will buy a new Mac Pro as soon as it's upgrated. Hopefully yet this year...

OnePumpChump
Nov 23, 2007, 10:40 AM
Oh well. Still checking daily to see what will happen.

Soon please!

Yeah, exactly. I need mine asap too! Maybe they will anounce something soon after "Black Friday," which might have given them a chance to sell off as many old MacPro's as they could before Christmas.:D