Beginning Photography-Recommendations?

[G5Unit]

I have decided that I want to begin photography as a hobby. I have been using photoshop for 4 years now and I want to actually be the one who takes pictures of what I am manipulating.

The most I can spend for a camera=lens is $750.

I already have a (cheap) tripod.

I wish to turn this into a profitable hobby since I am in need of a job.

I'm almost 16.


Any recommendations on lenses and cameras? It would mostly be portrait shots and the occasional landscape.

[macgruder]

Start with Nikon D40x with lens kit.

Compare it with a Canon equivalent, and go for the one that feels comfortable in your hands.

and read this thread!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=385434

[peapody]

Yes listen to these guys! They are so helpful!

[G5Unit]

Start with Nikon D40x with lens kit.

Compare it with a Canon equivalent, and go for the one that feels comfortable in your hands.

Which lens kit?

Where an I find this?

[M@lew]

I wish to turn this into a profitable hobby since I am in need of a job.

I'm almost 16.


I'm afraid that's not going to happen any time soon for a couple of reasons.

1) You're just starting. Unless you're super duper naturally talented and get discovered really fast by some guy willing to spread your name around everywhere, you're going to need time.

2) You're just 16. Wait a few years before you can make decent money from it.

It's possible to make small cash on photographer as a hobby, just not a profitable one considering how much gear costs. :)

[ScubaDuc]

Mmmmm...

You ask a hard question for which there is no obvious answer. I would hesitate choosing a body based solely on the "feel". Look at the lenses you'd like and how much they cost. Are they available for the body you have chosen?

If you get a D40 ( and I am all for Nikons) you will not have the opportunity to use older AI lenses that can be picked up cheap in second hand shops. Stuff like the 55 mm MicroNikkor or the 28 mm PC. Those lenses are awesome...

Also, Nikon USA has stated clearly that they expect full size CCD to migrate to the lower end of the reflex segment, meaning that any DX lens you buy now is not going to work with a full sensor in the future...

Therefore, although I have yet to try it, I recommend you take a look at the Pentax K10D or K100D because they can use older, full size lenses you can find in second hand shops and the body has build-in stabilization, which is always nice. Also, they are quite cheap and there is a $100 rebate until January... The downside is that Pentax does not have a lens portfolio nearly as nice as Nikon :rolleyes:

Have fun taking picures and don't worry about the rest !!!

[Doylem]

Everything looks possible... except making money straight away from your new hobby. Hey, why not pick up a guitar, learn a few chords... then book yourself a stadium gig: see what I mean...

It's hard enough making a living from photography even when you know what you're doing. But to begin with, you're going to have to lay out money... not make it. :)

[macgruder]

I think the benefit of the D40x is that it's very light, and a very fun camera to use. I don't see such a big issue with the issue of lack of A-I lenses for a beginner at least. Stick with the one 18 - 55mm lens and use only that. That's a great range that you'll be able to learn a great deal from it. There are benefits of having one lens and sticking with it for a while. If you're wanting to expand your lenses in the future then you can go for a non-DX lens.

After a year or so, based on your experience and the type of photos you find yourself taking then you can make a more informed decision about a long term investment. If you decide to go for a bigger FX camera etc, you'll still find the D40x a good carry-anywhere camera.

Or to put it another way, even if I owned a Nikon D3 with every Nikon FX lens I'd still go out and buy a D40, because a cheaper camera is still better than the camera you tend to leave at home :-)

Scubaduc's opinion is equally valid, and it depends what your priorities are.

[bocomo]

good advice, all

i also think it helps to make informed buying decisions, however, i think it can be easy to get caught up in worrying about having the best equipment and not about having the best pics.

i would get an slr on the cheap and spend the leftovers on a photo course at a community college or something like that. i may be biased (i teach photo) but i think you will improve your image making quicker with a course. the feedback from critique of your work will open your eyes to new things and you will start to build a network of people you can show work to and get good feedback (especially important if you are trying to make money with photo)

just a suggestion, either way, the answer is always, "Shoot more."

have fun

[ScubaDuc]

I think the benefit of the D40x is that it's very light, and a very fun camera to use. I don't see such a big issue with the issue of lack of A-I lenses for a beginner at least. Stick with the one 18 - 55mm lens and use only that. That's a great range that you'll be able to learn a great deal from it. There are benefits of having one lens and sticking with it for a while. If you're wanting to expand your lenses in the future then you can go for a non-DX lens.

After a year or so, based on your experience and the type of photos you find yourself taking then you can make a more informed decision about a long term investment. If you decide to go for a bigger FX camera etc, you'll still find the D40x a good carry-anywhere camera.

Or to put it another way, even if I owned a Nikon D3 with every Nikon FX lens I'd still go out and buy a D40, because a cheaper camera is still better than the camera you tend to leave at home :-)

Scubaduc's opinion is equally valid, and it depends what your priorities are.

Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against Nikons and the D40.. In fact I have a closet full of old Nikon gear and AI lenses. It is precisely because I appreciate Nikon's that I think that starting off with the 18-55 mm lens is like shooting one's foot. :rolleyes: That lens suffers from vignetting and barrel distortion and does not compare favourably to other Nikkor lenses... To be fair, also the kit lens on the Pentax stinks

In fact, I would suggest skimping on the body but spending more for decent optics.... Those old AI lenses are exceptional and they are cheap... Who cares for autofocus? If I use a 20 mm at f16, everything is gonna be in focus anyway.. Same thing could be said for the old Pentax lenses...They use to be decent and they fit either the k10D or K100D...

But maybe I am still thinking like an "old timer"....I hate all those complications on modern cameras and still prefer my trusted F3 :D

[G5Unit]

Thank you everyone for the input.

As for the whole making money think I thought I should translate. I meant I would want to begin doing that in about a year and a half's time.


My friend is a 17 year old photographer and she has been doing it for 1 year, and she makes quite a bit.


I also do have previous experience in photography, just with the wrong equipment.


Piecing what everyone is saying together, you all recommend I spend more on the lens and buy a cheaper camera?

[Lovesong]

Alright, I think I'm going to throw my 2 cents in.
First off, yes- everyone is telling you to spend less on the body and more on the lens. I would actually go a step further, and tell you to invest in a manual focus film body (Either the Nikon FM 10, or the Canon A1) and a 50mm lens. Then spend your time on shooting black and white film, and use a notebook to write down what settings you used.

Learn all there is to know about different apertures, shutter speeds, the different speeds of film, what "pulling" or pushing the film speed is. This will give you a more solid foundation in photography, and while initially it may not be gratifying or as "cool" as a digital SLR, it will give you the ground to expand your knowledge of photography, as opposed to getting a nice camera and using it as a p&s. It takes more than equipment to be a pro, is I guess what I'm trying to get at.

[mattwe]

As someone who used to be an enthusiast and is trying to get back into it, I will give my 2 cents. (see my thread on purchasing decisions here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=385650 ).

You have heard a lot of recommendations saying cheap body and good optics, that is my plan and think it is sage advice.

But, I went to your flickr site and think that some of the other advice may be off the mark. You seem to be interested in post-processing more than photography (I may be wrong).

My first thought was that if you can afford Photoshop, then you should be able to afford a decent camera (but I assume that your version of Photoshop is probably less than legit). Since you probably want to keep up doing post-processing, then you will want to stick with a digital camera (IMO) so that you don't have to invest in a scanner.

Look at a D40 (or the comparable Canon) body and then a nice prime lens if you want to 'learn the art.' If you are less interested in the art of photography and more interested in extensive post-processing of the photos, my thought is that you likely don't really need as nice of a lens.

my ramblings on your situation.

[ChrisA]

If you get a D40 ( and I am all for Nikons) you will not have the opportunity to use older AI lenses that can be picked up cheap in second hand shops.

I agree with this but not with the conclusion. Yes the D40 lacks an in-body focus motor. But it is the only Nikon body the lacks the motor. So ScubDuc and I agree, a serious hobbyist or want-to-be pro should not go for the D40. But that does not mean you have to buy a Pentax. You can buy any other Nikon camera. The D80 would be perfect as would a used D50. In fact the used D50 or D70 would be perfect if you could find one.

When people say "kit lens" they mean the lens typically bundled with the body as a "kit". These are worth buying because they are good values.

Bottom line. If you like Nikon you will want a body with a model number above "40". Canon and Pentax are not bad brands but look at the total SYSTEM not just the DSLR body.

About making money.... I assume the goal is to make more than minimum wage. If that is the case it is going to be hard. You can likely do something but it will be one of those hobby-jobs where you work 50 hours and make $50. Cooking burgers pays 7 times better and does not require a $3000 initial investment of cameras and computers and software. Photography is a very completive field. And if by chance you do start making real money you will have to get a business license, pay quarterly estimated income tax, make payments to social security and workman's comp cary insurance and likely pay an accountant to do all of the above. If you don't one of your competitors will turn you in. Then you are looking at fines and/or jail time. Believe me, if one of my competitors was not paying all the fees and taxes and working for cash and taking MY customers away I'd have the city, state and feds on him in a second. So you are limited to working small jobs now and then and keeping a low profile. and making $1 an hour

[cube]

I would start with one of these:

New K100D Super kit for $449 after rebate:
http://beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PKK100DS1855

Used D70 body (check the accessories!)
http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20279118.html
(the other day there was a cheaper one rated one grade less)

[ChrisBrightwell]

The most I can spend for a camera=lens is $750.Rebel XT + 50mm f/1.4 USM.

I don't like the XTi because they did away with the smaller "status" LCD. When I upgrade my body, it'll have to be to a 40D (or its successor) for that reason. :(

[valdore]

My friend is a 17 year old photographer and she has been doing it for 1 year, and she makes quite a bit.


How? I'd like to know out of curiosity. Maybe it'll help me make some money...

[Xfujinon]

Go to www.dpreview.com

Read in the forums. Read their reviews.

Best site there is for photography-related things.

Good luck!

[G5Unit]

As someone who used to be an enthusiast and is trying to get back into it, I will give my 2 cents. (see my thread on purchasing decisions here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=385650 ).

You have heard a lot of recommendations saying cheap body and good optics, that is my plan and think it is sage advice.

But, I went to your flickr site and think that some of the other advice may be off the mark. You seem to be interested in post-processing more than photography (I may be wrong).

My first thought was that if you can afford Photoshop, then you should be able to afford a decent camera (but I assume that your version of Photoshop is probably less than legit). Since you probably want to keep up doing post-processing, then you will want to stick with a digital camera (IMO) so that you don't have to invest in a scanner.

Look at a D40 (or the comparable Canon) body and then a nice prime lens if you want to 'learn the art.' If you are less interested in the art of photography and more interested in extensive post-processing of the photos, my thought is that you likely don't really need as nice of a lens.

my ramblings on your situation.

Well the situations I have come into is where I am taking a beautiful shot and I realize, "wow this isn't really going to look very nice on the big screen."

Regular point and shoot camera always give me a flat, blurry picture(yes even with a tripod)

I was looking at the D40 but it doesn't seem be compatable? with most lenses.

How is the Canon XTi or XT?


And my version of Photoshop is legit, it's Photoshop CS3 Student Edition.

[ScubaDuc]

I agree with this but not with the conclusion. Yes the D40 lacks an in-body focus motor. But it is the only Nikon body the lacks the motor. So ScubDuc and I agree, a serious hobbyist or want-to-be pro should not go for the D40. But that does not mean you have to buy a Pentax. You can buy any other Nikon camera. The D80 would be perfect as would a used D50. In fact the used D50 or D70 would be perfect if you could find one.

The cheapest Nikon that supports AI lenses is the D200. The D50/70/80/100 do not support metering with older lenses... A real pitty if you ask me... :rolleyes:

I think for the lower end the Pentax offers more possibilities then the Nikon for it supports older Pentax lenses....and it's not because of the motor but because the light meter

Getting your hands on some cheap quality second-hand lenses is a real bonus and lowers the cost-in-use ;)

[G5Unit]

The cheapest Nikon that supports AI lenses is the D200. The D50/70/80/100 do not support metering with older lenses... A real pitty if you ask me... :rolleyes:

I think for the lower end the Pentax offers more possibilities then the Nikon for it supports older Pentax lenses....and it's not because of the motor but because the light meter

Getting your hands on some cheap quality second-hand lenses is a real bonus and lowers the cost-in-use ;)

So you think that's a no on the D40x?

[Grimace]

You can get a Canon 20D on eBay for $565 right now. Add in a ($75) 50mm f/1.8 (sharp photos!) and $100 in memory cards/accessories and you'll have a lot of material for Photoshop! Play around for a few months, do some portrait sessions, maybe make a little dough.

[macgruder]

So you think that's a no on the D40x?

I don't think so. The AI lenses are manual only, so it may not be a major consideration for you at this stage. I wouldn't treat this first camera as the major stepping stone in a long term investment. For example, if you are going for the Pentax over the Nikon for *that reason* it means that you are committing yourself to Pentax in the long term.

The digital world is in a state of flux at the moment with different format sizes etc. Your not about to spend thousands of dollars on equipment right now, so get the camera that suits your purpose now. If the Nikon D40x doesn't turn out to be great for the long term it's not a big deal. It's not extremely expensive and will still make a good camera to carry around like a bigger compact or a second 'grab anytime body'. Or just give it to a girlfriend, your mother, or something.

[SLC Flyfishing]

I'm brand new here but I saw this thread and I had to put in my two cents. My wife and I have been making a fair bit of money lately shooting weddings. We have two Pentax K10D's at our disposal and they are fantastic cameras, the Pentax K10D is the top of the line from Pentax (until January), and it is definately a pro oriented camera.

The reason why I mention it is that this camera is about to be upgraded, and because of this it can be had with an 18-55 mm lens for about $640 at www.adorama.com and elsewhere. I can't recommend this camera enough, it is a stunning performer especially for the price.

In late 2006/early 2007 the K10D hit the market and made Canon and Nikon look silly for charging $1,500+ for a similar camera. That's Pentax's traditional business model: provide a high quality product for far less money and be content with not selling boatloads of cameras. Yeah they aren't that well known (these days) but they make the best products for the money out there.

Let me list to you why I'd pick a Pentax K10D over any other camera right now, admittedly this is my list and you may have different ideas about what you need:

Weather sealed body: The K10D is sealed with no fewer than 70 gaskets to keep water and environmental contaminates from contacting it's inner workings. You won't find this in a Canon for anywhere near the price, and you have to but a Nikon D200 at least to get weather sealing from them.

Built in shake reduction: The Pentax K10D has a shake reduction feature built into the camera body that will give you an average of two stops worth of shutter speed slowdown. It works with every lens you attach to the camera. Nikon and Canon have a lens based system that has been shown to be more effective in lab tests but that you have to pay for separately with every lens. It's usually about $100 or more in additional cost to get their shake reduction lenses.

Lack of pre-set scene modes: The K10D leaves "sports mode" and "landscape mode" etc out of the cameras control nob. This leaves room for a shutter-aperture priority mode where you select the shutter speed/aperture combination and the camera adjusts ISO to make it happen for you. It also has a sensitivity priority mode which will allow you to select the ISO setting and the camera does the rest. These are two features you won't find on any other DSLR anywhere.

Compatibility with every K-mount lens ever made: The K10D will work with any K-mount optic you can find. There have been over 25-million made to date, and that's just the ones made by Pentax themselves. Canon and Nikon haven't shown even a resemblance of the level of customer concern and loyalty that Pentax have shown in this regard. You can find K-mount lenses anywhere and for cheap.

Support for SDM lenses: The K10D supports Pentax's SDM focus motor system which places the focusing motor in the body of the lens rather than the camera body it's self. That way you can use the newest offerings they have as well as the older ones. The Pentax K100D that someone else mentioned earlier does not support SDM lenses. The K100D "super" does however.

I could go on and on but I'll leave it at that lest I bore you even further. I think that you are in a unique position to pick up a truly professional leve DSLR for an amature's price right now with the Pentax K10D, and like was stated before, if it doesn't pan out for you in the future, you won't be so far in that switching becomes prohibitively expensive. I know however; if you do pick Pentax, you won't be wanting to switch.

SLC

[ChrisA]

The cheapest Nikon that supports AI lenses is the D200. The D50/70/80/100 do not support metering with older lenses... A real pitty if you ask me... :rolleyes:

I think for the lower end the Pentax offers more possibilities then the Nikon for it supports older Pentax lenses....and it's not because of the motor but because the light meter

Getting your hands on some cheap quality second-hand lenses is a real bonus and lowers the cost-in-use ;)

Technically you are right. When I put an old manual focus lens on my Nikon D50. I can't use the automatic exposure modes but I can "meter". What I do is guess and take a test exposure. Then I look at the histogram display on the back of the camera. This is the best "meter" I've ever seen. Then I see in an instant that I'm (say) 1.5 stops off. I correct that and I'm set until the light changes.

Even for fast moving subjects, the exposure only changes when the light changes. So I really can meter with older lenses.

Yes the D200 is lowest priced current Nikon that can use AI-S lenses in automatic exposure modes but there are some used bodies. A D100 would be great given this guy's $750 budget. I think the D100 is pretty cheap by now.

That said, If he wanted o go Nikon I'd recommend a Uded D50 or D70. these bodies sell for as low as $350.

A agree about Pentax, for some one starting out it is a good way to go.

[cube]

I don't know from where you get that the K10D will soon be upgraded. It's a great new camera at an excellent price.

[SLC Flyfishing]

I don't know from where you get that the K10D will soon be upgraded. It's a great new camera at an excellent price.

From Pentax themselves, January 28th will be the day of the announcement. The K10D is nearly a year old and they have to keep up with the Nikon D300 so to speak. It is a fantastic camera at a fantastic price, but it is going to be replaced by another fantastic camera (rumor is 14 megapixels and 5 frames per second) at nearly as fantastic a price.

It will be considered an update to the K10D, but as far as I know the K10D will still be available after the announcement, but in a middle position in the Pentax lineup rather than the top slot.

SLC

[seahawk09]

Hey G5unit,

First of all the most important thing you can do when getting into photography is not to rush thing's, making money will not be as forth coming as you like I would advise on reading some books and get tips from them then you can learn a great deal from them. I would also recommend that you go into Camera shops and talk to the people in the store there your best bet for setting you up for a good Camera and before you buy said Camera do RESEARCH on it I cant stress that enough because just buying a camera on site can be a very costly thing, meaning you may not get what you want out of said camera. I just bought a Pentax K10D DLSR and I researched it for three months and talked to many Camera shop owners about it. And dont try to push yourself into making money right away get used to taking pictures go on some workshops and just enjoy photography for now. :D




Richard