PDA

View Full Version : Mac OS X 10.5.1 Update Finalized?




MacRumors
Nov 14, 2007, 08:24 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret believes (http://notes.thinksecret.com/secretnotes/0711macosx1051.shtml) that Apple is about ready to release the first update to Mac OS X Leopard.

Mac OS X 10.5.1 has been undergoing testing by developers over the past two weeks, and ThinkSecret claims that it has been finalized at build 9B18. The last build made available to developers was 9B16 and was released seeded earlier this week (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/apple-continues-work-on-first-leopard-update-10-5-1-build-9b16/). There were no known issues at that time.

The update is expected to simply provide stability, compatibility, and security improvements for Leopard.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/14/mac-os-x-10-5-1-update-finalized/)



TheChemist
Nov 14, 2007, 08:26 AM
Can't wait to try it.
















after everyone else has. ;)

xUKHCx
Nov 14, 2007, 08:28 AM
after everyone else has. ;)

Well I'll be sure to let you know, I will be installing it straight away on my imac and if good it will go onto my MB.

JohnMC
Nov 14, 2007, 08:30 AM
Looks like I'll be buying Leopard sooner than I thought.

lord patton
Nov 14, 2007, 08:30 AM
I'm going to rate this negative.

Squonk
Nov 14, 2007, 08:31 AM
I'm getting closer and closer to buying Leopard....and this certainly helps!

Orng
Nov 14, 2007, 08:34 AM
Yippee

So, any word on 10.4.11 yet? I'm thinking of upgrading my work computer from Panther to Tiger, but not before 10.4.11 :p

yudilks
Nov 14, 2007, 08:35 AM
Hopefully it fixes the problem with waking up, eliminates the problem with Airport scanning after waking up which causes the choppy mouse movement and the only thing to repair it is to restart, patches the bug with mosaic wallpaper which shows white center image or even cannot be launch (sometimes), improves the firewall, fixes the choppiness of genie effect, adds functionality back to Time machine, reduces the "greediness" of Time Machine in sucking all spaces available in our HD, brings back hierarchy function in stack, doesn't let the dock minimize when Stack is opened, lets the each folder remembers their "View" mode, doesn't make the icon grows to gargantuan size when we resize the folder, and improves the overall performance...

richard.mac
Nov 14, 2007, 08:36 AM
does thinksecret have an approximate release date guesstimate?

AdeFowler
Nov 14, 2007, 08:37 AM
I'm sure that many of the fixes were made after Leopard went GM, but before it hit the shelves; that's the joy of having the internet. Ten years ago things had to be right before they shipped; I recall receiving a free Office update on multiple floppies :eek:

xenotaku
Nov 14, 2007, 08:39 AM
does it make stacks not suck?

DakotaGuy
Nov 14, 2007, 08:40 AM
My iMac is working so well with 10.5 that I think I too will let others try the update before I do.:)

overanalyzer
Nov 14, 2007, 08:41 AM
I'm going to rate this negative.

Out of curiosity, why?

Eduardo1971
Nov 14, 2007, 08:44 AM
I haven't installed 10.5 yet. I have Leopard but I'm awaiting my back-up portable hard drive to arrive ( and back up with Superduper!); then install 10.5.

Now, with this announcement, I'll probably wait until 10.5.1 arrives.

fanbrain
Nov 14, 2007, 08:45 AM
Hot dog!

I hope they release it soon; there are some nasty bugs that need squashing.

gonnabuyamac
Nov 14, 2007, 08:46 AM
does it make stacks not suck?

:D best quote of the day

ortuno2k
Nov 14, 2007, 08:47 AM
Hopefully it will fix a few inconsistencies with the Finder and the Dock, like moving icons around on the dock they don't "move" aside all the time, also the time on iCal doesn't change automatically unless the computer's restarted...and other few things here and there.
I'm looking forward to it! :)

TheSpaz
Nov 14, 2007, 08:48 AM
Meh... Don't get too excited for this... it's not like it's gonna make any feature changes... just bug fixes.

I heard that Safari is snappier though.

macinfojunkie
Nov 14, 2007, 08:54 AM
I'm hoping the following will be fixed:


Aperture & Time machine issue
Spell checker in Safari
Safari 3 stability - seems to crash more often than 10.4 did. Not a big deal but still annoying when it happens.
Fix already identified security flaws (i.e. firewall etc.)

Orng
Nov 14, 2007, 08:56 AM
I'm going to rate this negative.

Out of curiosity, why?

uuuuuhhh...

An aversion to odd numbers?
An objection to the fact that an update is even needed?
Biblically-inspired bigotry toward "alternative" operating systems that represent 10% of the population?
Sheer bloody-mindedness?
Lord Patton is Grumpy Smurf's love child?
To demonstrate the sheer futility of the rating system?

(between you and me, I read on 9to5mac that it's the Grumpy Smurf thing...)

Luap
Nov 14, 2007, 08:58 AM
Yippee

So, any word on 10.4.11 yet? I'm thinking of upgrading my work computer from Panther to Tiger, but not before 10.4.11 :p

Im starting to think the 10.4.11 update has been scraped. There has been no word on it for weeks. Certainly no more developer releases anyway. Plus Apple never released an update for an OS that has been superseded. Security updates excepted.
Anyway, Why hold of on Tiger altogether just because of this small update!? 10.4.10 is a big step forward over any release of 10.3

As for you guys that are clearly getting all moist about 10.5.1.. Seriously guys, get a grip of yourselves.

pixel001
Nov 14, 2007, 08:59 AM
Well when they fix the firewall i'll *maybe* consider upgrading.
in the meantime : Tiger ftw !

ct-scan
Nov 14, 2007, 09:01 AM
I can "live" a bit longer with many of the problems, but there is one that is just driving me completely nuts...where did my battery go????

I hope they fix this issue. My MBP was getting around 3 hrs of battery time on 10.4.10, but once on 10.5, I barely get 90 minutes!

reckless_0001
Nov 14, 2007, 09:01 AM
I'm hoping the following will be fixed:


Aperture & Time machine issue
Spell checker in Safari
Safari 3 stability - seems to crash more often than 10.4 did. Not a big deal but still annoying when it happens.
Fix already identified security flaws (i.e. firewall etc.)


not to mention the Time Machine bug, when you go to the menu item 'open with...' over a document you get every single backup application show up. Also, I agree with the Safari stability, it crashes way more often.

lord patton
Nov 14, 2007, 09:01 AM
uuuuuhhh...

An aversion to odd numbers?
An objection to the fact that an update is even needed?
Biblically-inspired bigotry toward "alternative" operating systems that represent 10% of the population?
Sheer bloody-mindedness?
Lord Patton is Grumpy Smurf's love child?
To demonstrate the sheer futility of the rating system?

(between you and me, I read on 9to5mac that it's the Grumpy Smurf thing...)

1) yes
2) no
3) Only if you're referring to the Old Testament
4) Always
5) I don't think so, but not ruling it out
6) finger to nose

I hate hate hate 9to5mac (see reason 1 above)

.fred
Nov 14, 2007, 09:03 AM
When will it be released? This two days?

Feverish Flux
Nov 14, 2007, 09:03 AM
It would sure be nice to use Google Earth again, although I doubt this update will fix that.

Maybe iChat will stop crashing.

Or Mail...

odinsride
Nov 14, 2007, 09:03 AM
I hope they fix the MBP screen backlight issue and the screen capture memory leaks

dukeblue91
Nov 14, 2007, 09:04 AM
does it make stacks not suck?

No but they improved the Stacks engine and it will now suck much harder :D

jonnylink
Nov 14, 2007, 09:05 AM
does it make stacks not suck? Keep dreaming! :rolleyes:

Eidorian
Nov 14, 2007, 09:07 AM
I'll be getting it the first minute it's out. :D

jg2000
Nov 14, 2007, 09:07 AM
did I see that some people are still on Panther?????? c'mon, give me a break, you're obviously not utilizing your Mac for anything worth while. You'll be lucky to even install Leopard on a Panther machine.

jg2000
Nov 14, 2007, 09:08 AM
Keep dreaming! :rolleyes:

what's wrong with stacks?

SiliconAddict
Nov 14, 2007, 09:13 AM
The update is expected to simply provide stability, compatibility, and security improvements for Leopard.

Sounds like a Vista update :p


what's wrong with stacks?


Its a pretty solution for something that already was in Tiger. What is wrong with it? It would probably be easier to mention what ISN'T wrong. First off the displayed stack MOVES when you have the Genie effect on. So take your mouse off the dock and your target moves. Its worse on Fan view then grid so I don't use Fan for ANYTHING. Nice design Apple. Second the icon in the dock is ever changing. This is beyond retarded and speaks to the notion that this was Jobs's baby and NO ONE would dare tell him its a flawed idea. I mean really. What the heck use is an icon as a representation of a folder if it continually changes? Third "view as" should have a open in finder so people who want the "normal" view can get it. Fourth. The view is SLOW as hell to show the contents of the icon. I have my docs folder in the dock and it takes a good 3 seconds to change the icons to preview icons granted I have about 50 files in that folder but still. Once you do it once its fine but it looks unprofessional to watch your icons render because Apple did a crap job on Stacks. There are probably more. I can't think of them off the top of my head.

That-Is-Bull
Nov 14, 2007, 09:15 AM
It would sure be nice to use Google Earth again, although I doubt this update will fix that.

What's wrong with Google Earth? Works fine for me.

BKKbill
Nov 14, 2007, 09:17 AM
:D best quote of the day

I surely hope not. Or is that sheerly hope not.

Orng
Nov 14, 2007, 09:17 AM
Anyway, Why hold of on Tiger altogether just because of this small update!? 10.4.10 is a big step forward over any release of 10.3


psst... I was kinda poking fun at some people. :D

The only reason I haven't put Tiger on my work computer yet is because I have yet to thoroughly test Final Cut Pro HD 4.5 under Tiger on a non-system-critical machine. It's been on my to-do list for a year, but no time. Too busy mucking around on apple forums.

1) yes
2) no
3) Only if you're referring to the Old Testament
4) Always
5) I don't think so, but not ruling it out
6) finger to nose

I hate hate hate 9to5mac (see reason 1 above)

LOL

did I see that some people are still on Panther?????? c'mon, give me a break, you're obviously not utilizing your Mac for anything worth while. You'll be lucky to even install Leopard on a Panther machine.

Do I have to respond to Mr. Angrypants here or will he go away if I ignore him?

My IT dept. wants me to test ALL my critical software before I upgrade, and I'm too busy to test. Maybe someone else can explain it to Snappy McCrabcakes here, because I'm not gonna bother. And yeah, no Leopard on an 800 Mhz, even though it's a Dual core that kicks a single 867mHz core's butt all over town. If you think IT is being unreasonable by making me test the hell out of everything for a year before I can upgrade to Tiger, wait till you hear what they think of my proposal to hack Leopard onto my (their) Dual800. The short version: they think it sucks more than Stacks

rotlex
Nov 14, 2007, 09:17 AM
What's wrong with Google Earth? Works fine for me.

Ditto on Google Earth...Now, if it just fixes my issue regarding the invisible attribute being set on my external drives every time I reboot, I'll be happy.

Feverish Flux
Nov 14, 2007, 09:18 AM
What's wrong with Google Earth? Works fine for me.

Can't use it without it crashing.

Seems to be an Alu iMac issue based on what I have seen. Don't have Leopard on my home machine yet, so cannot confirm.

hakala01
Nov 14, 2007, 09:28 AM
I hope it fixes the USB-related kernel panics I've been having.

chrisgeleven
Nov 14, 2007, 09:29 AM
I hope it fixes these few things:

Time Machine all the sudden started to take up 80% of the CPU when doing its hourly backup and take several minutes to backup 2MB. No idea why this happened, as the first few weeks of Leopard this never occurred. Nothing in my setup has changed, heck the external HD is plugged into the same USB 2.0 Hub which is plugged into the same port on the Macbook (changing ports did not fix it either). The Macbook sees it as a USB 2.0 HD too.
Don't know if it is an IMAP issue with Mail, but it seems that if I wake my Macbook from sleep mode, I have to force quit Mail and restart it in order for the latest e-mail to be downloaded. Quitting Mail normally instead of a force quit causes it to hang, resulting in me doing a force quit anyways.


Other then this, I am very pleased with Leopard.

Eidorian
Nov 14, 2007, 09:30 AM
What's wrong with Google Earth? Works fine for me.Works fine on my MacBook too.

igazza
Nov 14, 2007, 09:30 AM
i have no major problems with 10.5 what was wrong with 10.4.10 why you all want .11 so badly somebody fill me in :confused:

twoodcc
Nov 14, 2007, 09:31 AM
looking forward to this update. hopefully madden 08 will work with leopard after this

Dagless
Nov 14, 2007, 09:34 AM
Stacks are working perfectly for me. Got my recently used docs as a grid, downloads as a fan. Nothing to complain about here.

I'm just having issues with Timeout Errors with Airport (Tiger and XP are/were okay). Um, forgot the rest :D

DaBrain
Nov 14, 2007, 09:35 AM
Another prediction from Stink Secret! Hopefuly it's more accurate than their 10.4.11 release date/posting. :eek:

zen
Nov 14, 2007, 09:37 AM
Its a pretty solution for something that already was in Tiger. What is wrong with it? It would probably be easier to mention what ISN'T wrong. First off the displayed stack MOVES when you have the Genie effect on. So take your mouse off the dock and your target moves. Its worse on Fan view then grid so I don't use Fan for ANYTHING. Nice design Apple. Second the icon in the dock is ever changing. This is beyond retarded and speaks to the notion that this was Jobs's baby and NO ONE would dare tell him its a flawed idea. I mean really. What the heck use is an icon as a representation of a folder if it continually changes? Third "view as" should have a open in finder so people who want the "normal" view can get it. Fourth. The view is SLOW as hell to show the contents of the icon. I have my docs folder in the dock and it takes a good 3 seconds to change the icons to preview icons granted I have about 50 files in that folder but still. Once you do it once its fine but it looks unprofessional to watch your icons render because Apple did a crap job on Stacks. There are probably more. I can't think of them off the top of my head.
And of course the biggie, that you can no longer heirarchically navigate folders sitting in the dock.

My biggest problem, as you mention, is the ever-changing icon. As I mentioned a while ago in another thread, I have several folders docked, and use each of them for various media files while I work, plus the downloads folder and my documents folder.

As I work, download required files, shift stuff between my media folder and documents folder, the icons are not only changing each time but often end up as the same thing (ie, a Quicktime movie icon, an AC3 audio file icon). Within a few minutes I'm totally lost.

Absolutely ridiculous.

ph0rk
Nov 14, 2007, 09:39 AM
what's wrong with stacks?

That's a paddlin.

Jetson
Nov 14, 2007, 09:41 AM
Overall Leopard is working well for me and I like it.

But I'm experiencing a problem with Safari not rendering some pages correctly, which it used to render perfectly well in Tiger. This is affecting the Seller's Page on Amazon.com. All the text on this page appears as extremely tiny unreadable clumps.

Also there are several other little things I wish Apple would fix:

The Dock doesn't redraw correctly after you quit a graphics intensive app such as the Zinni Zeala pinball game. Some of the icons appear as green blobs.
When running the "repair preferences" feature of Disk Utility, the progress bar doesn't give any useful info like it used to. Also reparing preferences only took around ten seconds or so on Tiger, but on leopard it takes about 5 minutes - why?
When you select a file name in the Finder, the extension remains unselected - so I then have to reselect all the text.

I'm just hoping that Apple has read my feedback and are fixing these bugs in this release.

smadder
Nov 14, 2007, 09:42 AM
I hope the graphics drivers have improved some for the SR MBs. I'm so glad this is getting released: I pray that it fixes a lot of the glitches I've experienced so far in a "built-for-Leopard" SR MB.

Eidorian
Nov 14, 2007, 09:45 AM
I hope it fixes these few things:

Time Machine all the sudden started to take up 80% of the CPU when doing its hourly backup and take several minutes to backup 2MB. No idea why this happened, as the first few weeks of Leopard this never occurred. Nothing in my setup has changed, heck the external HD is plugged into the same USB 2.0 Hub which is plugged into the same port on the Macbook (changing ports did not fix it either). The Macbook sees it as a USB 2.0 HD too.


Other then this, I am very pleased with Leopard.I'd attribute this to Spotlight indexing and Finder.

smadder
Nov 14, 2007, 09:50 AM
i have no major problems with 10.5 what was wrong with 10.4.10 why you all want .11 so badly somebody fill me in :confused:

I wanted to keep Tiger and wait for Leopard to get an update before switching, but my 10.4.10 Tiger install on my SR MB is glitchier (great grammer here) than 10.5. I was hoping 10.4.11 would help.

ryanide
Nov 14, 2007, 09:51 AM
I hope Abode follows with an update for CS3. I seem to have much more crashing and WAY slower that with 10.4. So not feeling the love for Apple.

Time Machine is useless when you already have 650mb of used space... takes days to do the initial backup and then never seems to actually be able to finish. I finally just turned it off after 3 tries.

Vista, anyone??

Small White Car
Nov 14, 2007, 09:51 AM
does it make stacks not suck?

This doesn't make them perfect, but it really, really helps!

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

I HIGHLY suggest using these!

(NOTE that it's not a hack or a program...just icons you drop in each folder.)

BKKbill
Nov 14, 2007, 09:51 AM
That's a paddlin.

I know your trying to put some kind of point across but paddlin just doesn't do it. :rolleyes:

milo
Nov 14, 2007, 09:55 AM
Meh... Don't get too excited for this... it's not like it's gonna make any feature changes... just bug fixes.

Bug fixes aren't something to get excited about?

guzhogi
Nov 14, 2007, 10:02 AM
When you select a file name in the Finder, the extension remains unselected - so I then have to reselect all the text.



I think that's one of those "That's not a bug, that's a feature!" kind of things. Probably so if you accidently named a document wrong, you don't accidently change the extension.

ilogic
Nov 14, 2007, 10:02 AM
Bug fixes aren't something to get excited about?

give me airdisk backup!!! NOW! please? :(

i agree that stack icons need to be set as opposed to dynamic, as an option, somewhere in finder prefs.

my other gripe is airport extreme bugs... gosh, not leopard related i know, but leopard should improve on it shouldnt it have? well i'm patient with Apple, they'll deliver, right now things are so busy and crazy all over the company that its actually quite amazing that they're even delivering as they have!

:)

Lepton
Nov 14, 2007, 10:07 AM
(Stacks are) a pretty solution for something that already was in Tiger.
I like stacks but I absolutely want to be able to click a folder in the dock and have it open a folder window! To fix this, they simply need to add to the View As menu item. In addition to Fan and Grid, they need Folder. When set to View As Folder, the icon in the dock should remain a folder, it should open a folder window when clicked, and a hierarchical menu when pressed - like in Tiger. Easy and clean.

DakotaGuy
Nov 14, 2007, 10:10 AM
Well I'd love to see Airtunes support put back into Front Row, but I doubt we will see it for a long time.

MrCrowbar
Nov 14, 2007, 10:11 AM
I think that's one of those "That's not a bug, that's a feature!" kind of things. Probably so if you accidently named a document wrong, you don't accidently change the extension.

I actually like it. You can disable it somewhere in Finder.
What I miss is the ability to drag a file to a different volume, then trash or move the original while it's copying. Worked fine in Tiger, doesn't work in Leopard :(
I can imagine they did this so that Time Machine will pick up those events properly, it's still annoying for me though.

guzhogi
Nov 14, 2007, 10:12 AM
Its a pretty solution for something that already was in Tiger. What is wrong with it? It would probably be easier to mention what ISN'T wrong. First off the displayed stack MOVES when you have the Genie effect on. So take your mouse off the dock and your target moves. Its worse on Fan view then grid so I don't use Fan for ANYTHING. Nice design Apple. Second the icon in the dock is ever changing. This is beyond retarded and speaks to the notion that this was Jobs's baby and NO ONE would dare tell him its a flawed idea. I mean really. What the heck use is an icon as a representation of a folder if it continually changes? Third "view as" should have a open in finder so people who want the "normal" view can get it. Fourth. The view is SLOW as hell to show the contents of the icon. I have my docs folder in the dock and it takes a good 3 seconds to change the icons to preview icons granted I have about 50 files in that folder but still. Once you do it once its fine but it looks unprofessional to watch your icons render because Apple did a crap job on Stacks. There are probably more. I can't think of them off the top of my head.

For me, I don't don't really mind stacks. Only thing I'd change is at least to have the option to use folders in the dock the same way I did in Tiger.

As for the picture always changing, I think it's supposed to show the most recently downloaded/saved item in there or something. But I think you're onto something w/ the Steve Jobs' baby thing. He's such a control freak and wants everything done his way. I love Macs, but his Steveness is driving me nuts.

akac
Nov 14, 2007, 10:12 AM
Nothing is wrong with the firewall, guys who read FUD :)

Seriously. Its an Application Firewall, not a port/network firewall. Its purpose is to allow or disallow applications from accessing the internet to protect you from malicious servers/apps. It is separate from what you think of as a firewall - ipfw. ipfw still exists in Leopard and works well. What you think of as a firewall is ipfw and works great.

What Apple does need to do is change the terminology of the App Firewall so that its better understood (instead of just being in a KB article) AND add basic IPFW configurability for advanced users.

Eraserhead
Nov 14, 2007, 10:13 AM
Its a pretty solution for something that already was in Tiger. What is wrong with it? It would probably be easier to mention what ISN'T wrong. First off the displayed stack MOVES when you have the Genie effect on. So take your mouse off the dock and your target moves. Its worse on Fan view then grid so I don't use Fan for ANYTHING. Nice design Apple. Second the icon in the dock is ever changing. This is beyond retarded and speaks to the notion that this was Jobs's baby and NO ONE would dare tell him its a flawed idea. I mean really. What the heck use is an icon as a representation of a folder if it continually changes? Third "view as" should have a open in finder so people who want the "normal" view can get it. Fourth. The view is SLOW as hell to show the contents of the icon. I have my docs folder in the dock and it takes a good 3 seconds to change the icons to preview icons granted I have about 50 files in that folder but still. Once you do it once its fine but it looks unprofessional to watch your icons render because Apple did a crap job on Stacks. There are probably more. I can't think of them off the top of my head.

Quoted for truth, this is the best description I've heard as to why Stacks Suck (and they do), I suspect the people who like them never used folders in the Dock in Tiger.

Virgil-TB2
Nov 14, 2007, 10:13 AM
And of course the biggie, that you can no longer heirarchically navigate folders sitting in the dock.

My biggest problem, as you mention, is the ever-changing icon. As I mentioned a while ago in another thread, I have several folders docked, and use each of them for various media files while I work, plus the downloads folder and my documents folder.

As I work, download required files, shift stuff between my media folder and documents folder, the icons are not only changing each time but often end up as the same thing (ie, a Quicktime movie icon, an AC3 audio file icon). Within a few minutes I'm totally lost.

Absolutely ridiculous.Wah, wah, wah! :(

I am getting so tired of hearing this stuff about stacks. They are missing the ability to customise the icon on the top and the ability to navigate the stack. Big deal. It's already been implied that the functionality will likely be added back soon as well as the ability to use "smart stacks."

For cripes sake it's a brand new feature in a 1.0 version of the new dock in the new operating system. Give them more than a week or so after launch to get things right before you start putting Steve Jobs' head on a pike maybe?

Personally, I was hyper-critical of a lot of Leopard stuff, but since I installed it at home last week I like it a little bit more with each passing day. The new dock enhancements like the stacks have actually improved my productivity as they might for you "anti-stack-ites" if you just relax a little and try to use it.

Tiger is already starting to look crummy, and feel "clunky" to me. Can't wait until it's gone forever! :)

odinsride
Nov 14, 2007, 10:15 AM
I hope Abode follows with an update for CS3. I seem to have much more crashing and WAY slower that with 10.4. So not feeling the love for Apple.

Time Machine is useless when you already have 650mb of used space... takes days to do the initial backup and then never seems to actually be able to finish. I finally just turned it off after 3 tries.

Vista, anyone??

Disable spotlight indexing on all drives during your initial backup. It worked for me, I was having the same problem on my initial time machine backup

plumbingandtech
Nov 14, 2007, 10:23 AM
Nice.

I'll update once I know all my apps work on 10.5.1.

MrCrowbar
Nov 14, 2007, 10:24 AM
I like stacks but I absolutely want to be able to click a folder in the dock and have it open a folder window! To fix this, they simply need to add to the View As menu item. In addition to Fan and Grid, they need Folder. When set to View As Folder, the icon in the dock should remain a folder, it should open a folder window when clicked, and a hierarchical menu when pressed - like in Tiger. Easy and clean.

Word. Stacks are alright for Safari Downloads but very annoying for anything else. Even in Grid view, my applications stack (the one with the Address Book icon on top...) says "10 m...inder" which is supposed to mean "10 more in Finder". I want Tiger's behaviors back. It sccaled smoothly too. Leopard's design is alright, I like the dark non-reflective version.

Oh, and does anyone else feel spotlight is unusable in Leopard? It doesn't really find stuff it used to find and when I click "Show All" I get a cluttered up Finder window with different sorting. I'd love to be able to have icon view and sort it by kind, but oh, no view options for that! Why!? Also, in icon view I have to scale all the way up to get even the sortest filename shown without the "...". In cover flow... well that's pretty but not useful at all if your search returned 1000 items and most of them don't have quick look plugins which is good, because if they had previews, it would take ages to load them all. Please bring the old spotlight window back. Finder searching was already there in Tiger (although with less fine searching)!

Small White Car
Nov 14, 2007, 10:26 AM
Wah, wah, wah! :(
Big deal. It's already been implied that the functionality will likely be added back soon as well as the ability to use "smart stacks."

For cripes sake it's a brand new feature in a 1.0 version of the new dock in the new operating system. Give them more than a week or so after launch to get things right before you start putting Steve Jobs' head on a pike maybe?

Stacks are set to "auto" where it picks either 'fan' or 'grid' based on how many files are in it. When you right-click the stack you can force it to always pick 'fan' or 'grid' based on what you want.

Would it have been SO HARD for them to add 'folder view' as an option there? So in default you only get fan or grid, but by right clicking you have the OPTION to pick the old, Tiger method for those who still want it?

So yes, Stacks deserves all the criticism it's getting. Personally, I like it and use it a lot. But they really should have left folder view as an OPTION for people who like to use it that way. People aren't so much complaining about future features not being there, they're complaining because they TOOK AWAY the way folders on the Dock used to work! It should have been left as an option. (An option that "auto" ignores so stacks still works like advertised for 99.9% of users.)

kingtj
Nov 14, 2007, 10:27 AM
WHY does everyone keep saying Time Machine has some kind of "bug" or "problem" with sucking up all the space on the hard drive assigned to it??

That's exactly how it's SUPPOSED to work! That's why you dedicate a drive to it in the first place! It's not like Time Machine quits working when the drive gets full. It simply uses all space available to it, and then starts rolling off the oldest stuff, constantly replacing it with backups of all the latest changes. The bigger the drive, the further back you can go in time to recover stuff - but you basically WANT to see it filling the drive up. That means it's working as designed.


Hopefully it fixes the problem with waking up, eliminates the problem with Airport scanning after waking up which causes the choppy mouse movement and the only thing to repair it is to restart, patches the bug with mosaic wallpaper which shows white center image or even cannot be launch (sometimes), improves the firewall, fixes the choppiness of genie effect, adds functionality back to Time machine, reduces the "greediness" of Time Machine in sucking all spaces available in our HD, brings back hierarchy function in stack, doesn't let the dock minimize when Stack is opened, lets the each folder remembers their "View" mode, doesn't make the icon grows to gargantuan size when we resize the folder, and improves the overall performance...

milo
Nov 14, 2007, 10:29 AM
When you select a file name in the Finder, the extension remains unselected - so I then have to reselect all the text.

This was discussed in a previous thread. People were overwhelmingly positive about it. If most people consider it an improvement, it's hardly a bug. I'm glad they finally did that and I don't think there's any chance they'll change that back.

give me airdisk backup!!! NOW! please? :(

Sounds like it will take an airport firmware update.

I like stacks but I absolutely want to be able to click a folder in the dock and have it open a folder window!

You can do this already, just command click the stack icon.

Eraserhead
Nov 14, 2007, 10:29 AM
For cripes sake it's a brand new feature in a 1.0 version of the new dock in the new operating system.

No it isn't you've been able to put folders in the dock since forever.

madmax_2069
Nov 14, 2007, 10:30 AM
did I see that some people are still on Panther?????? c'mon, give me a break, you're obviously not utilizing your Mac for anything worth while. You'll be lucky to even install Leopard on a Panther machine.

I am running Leopard on a Digital Audio G4 533 with 768mb ram, and actually it runs very good despite what people might think. its defiantly more then usable

~J~
Nov 14, 2007, 10:34 AM
It would sure be nice to use Google Earth again, although I doubt this update will fix that.

Maybe iChat will stop crashing.

Or Mail...

I dont know why, but I dont have half the problems you guys have... iChat has never crashed on me in Leo - I use it every day. Multiple chats (in multiple spaces), video, screen sharing on local network, screen sharing across internet, etc. Safari hasnt crashed either.

And Google Earth works just fine.

MrCrowbar
Nov 14, 2007, 10:41 AM
I dont know why, but I dont have half the problems you guys have... iChat has never crashed on me in Leo - I use it every day. Multiple chats (in multiple spaces), video, screen sharing on local network, screen sharing across internet, etc. Safari hasnt crashed either.

And Google Earth works just fine.

:-) I haven't been able to get a video chat going with iChat for a year. Irt always says "connection error" and insists the chat partner timed out. Same goes for screen sharing and audio only. :(

kingtj
Nov 14, 2007, 10:45 AM
Yeah, I think almost everyone can agree that "Stacks" is half-baked right now. On the other hand, I did use folders in the dock in Tiger, and I always felt like that was a bit "half baked" as well. Sure, it did the job ... but it made people ask "Why not just have an alias to the folder on your desktop itself, instead of down in the dock, where it takes up valuable space?"

(If you have a lot of applications you use regularly, your dock gets overcrowded quickly enough anyway - leading to very small icons down there, etc.)

The thing is, "Stacks" needs to offer some kind of unique functionality to go with the new appearance. Then it would make sense. (EG. I could see it serving as an elegant way to solve my above complaint of the dock getting too crowded. How about a way to create a "stack" for each of a group of folders containing all your software, like a "Games" folder, a "Utilities" folder, an "Applications" folder, etc. Then design "Stacks" so it only shows actual launchable apps when you click it, vs. showing you all files in that folder. It would effectively give you multiple "docks" within the main dock that way.)


Quoted for truth, this is the best description I've heard as to why Stacks Suck (and they do), I suspect the people who like them never used folders in the Dock in Tiger.

cohibadad
Nov 14, 2007, 10:45 AM
Im starting to think the 10.4.11 update has been scraped.

No it hasn't.

Well I'd love to see Airtunes support put back into Front Row, but I doubt we will see it for a long time.

I don't know exactly how Airtunes works but if you are talking about sharing music across your network Front Row has that. But the best part IMO is the sharing of Movies! across your network streaming to 1 or more machines simultaneously. wow. My prediction is that Apple is going to activate Back to my Mac for the iPhone to allow streaming content from your home Mac to your iPhone, music and video. All the parts are in place.

InLikeALion
Nov 14, 2007, 10:50 AM
And of course the biggie, that you can no longer heirarchically navigate folders sitting in the dock.

My biggest problem, as you mention, is the ever-changing icon. As I mentioned a while ago in another thread, I have several folders docked, and use each of them for various media files while I work, plus the downloads folder and my documents folder.

As I work, download required files, shift stuff between my media folder and documents folder, the icons are not only changing each time but often end up as the same thing (ie, a Quicktime movie icon, an AC3 audio file icon). Within a few minutes I'm totally lost.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I haven't been able to read through all the posts yet, but I'm just posting this work around for the stack's icons here because I haven't seen in mentioned in any of the threads I've read:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/12/enhance-stacks-with-stacks-overlays

Like I said, it's a work around, but seems like it might be preferable to any other options so far? I don't have Leopard yet - I'm just trying not to assume everyone knows about this, just in case people haven't tried it yet.

puk
Nov 14, 2007, 10:50 AM
Any word on whether it will fix Time Machine backups to disks with MBR partitioning schemes?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306932

I'm about to go through a painful backup/restore process to repartition, would love it if I didn't have to.

-puk

morespce54
Nov 14, 2007, 10:52 AM
Can't wait to try it.
after everyone else has. ;)

No problem. I will install it the minute it comes out... Can't wait to have all those icons problems sorted...

You know, the shares icons that don't show up or that always shows up even when I'm disconnected, or icons that simply vanishes and then comes back, or stacks that don't *really* get sorted by names, you know, that kind of stuff ;)

Peace
Nov 14, 2007, 10:58 AM
Any word on whether it will fix Time Machine backups to disks with MBR partitioning schemes?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306932

I'm about to go through a painful backup/restore process to repartition, would love it if I didn't have to.

-puk

Fix? That's not a bug.MBR is for DOS and Windows.OS X uses the GUID Partition table.Has been that way for quit a while.Time Machine uses the GUID scheme.
It's not for Windows.

jazzkids
Nov 14, 2007, 10:59 AM
hope they fix Automator and renaming finder files

slackpacker
Nov 14, 2007, 11:01 AM
I haven't been able to read through all the posts yet, but I'm just posting this work around for the stack's icons here because I haven't seen in mentioned in any of the threads I've read:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/12/enhance-stacks-with-stacks-overlays

Like I said, it's a work around, but seems like it might be preferable to any other options so far? I don't have Leopard yet - I'm just trying not to assume everyone knows about this, just in case people haven't tried it yet.

With all the other things that could be wrong about an Operating system.... The Stack issues are really Trivial & Cosmetic.

Eduardo1971
Nov 14, 2007, 11:02 AM
As for you guys that are clearly getting all moist about 10.5.1.. Seriously guys, get a grip of yourselves.

Ahh, you might want to rephrase that.:o

mwp98223
Nov 14, 2007, 11:03 AM
This doesn't make them perfect, but it really, really helps!

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

I HIGHLY suggest using these!

(NOTE that it's not a hack or a program...just icons you drop in each folder.)

I loaded this up last night and like it. I would have enjoyed a little color with the drawers, but it definitely "fixes" the changing icons "bug" with stacks. One issue this creates is forcing a sort by date modified. Sorting my name can be more useful, especially in the applications folder.

MrCrowbar
Nov 14, 2007, 11:05 AM
With all the other things that could be wrong about an Operating system.... The Stack issues are really Trivial & Cosmetic.

Thanks so much!
On that site, it says you can just make an alias of a folder and drag that alias onto the dock. You can then delete the original alias and you got a nice folder icon in the dock that opens the folder in Finder when clicked. yay!

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3356/picture4xy3.png

EDIT: Damn, after emptying the trash this no longer works. You have to keep the original aliases somewhere. I suggest a folder inside your documents or something :)

Eraserhead
Nov 14, 2007, 11:09 AM
Thanks so much!
On that site, it says you can just make an alias of a folder and drag that alias onto the dock. You can then delete the original alias and you got a nice folder icon in the dock that opens the folder in Finder when clicked. yay!

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3356/picture4xy3.png

EDIT: Damn, after emptying the trash this no longer works. You have to keep the original aliases somewhere. I suggest a folder inside your documents or something :)

Except then the "Stack" doesn't appear for the folder :confused:.

xenotaku
Nov 14, 2007, 11:11 AM
Wah, wah, wah! :(

I am getting so tired of hearing this stuff about stacks. They are missing the ability to customise the icon on the top and the ability to navigate the stack. Big deal. It's already been implied that the functionality will likely be added back soon as well as the ability to use "smart stacks."

For cripes sake it's a brand new feature in a 1.0 version of the new dock in the new operating system. Give them more than a week or so after launch to get things right before you start putting Steve Jobs' head on a pike maybe?

Personally, I was hyper-critical of a lot of Leopard stuff, but since I installed it at home last week I like it a little bit more with each passing day. The new dock enhancements like the stacks have actually improved my productivity as they might for you "anti-stack-ites" if you just relax a little and try to use it.

Tiger is already starting to look crummy, and feel "clunky" to me. Can't wait until it's gone forever! :)


I used "stacks" in Tiger and hell was it awesome. It might not have been called stacks, but placing folders on my dock was a heck lot more functional that stacks. There is nothing new about stacks, its just a shiny less useful version of something many of have been doing for many years. The only people that don't mind stacks are the people that didn't fully utilize their docks in Tiger.

wngraham
Nov 14, 2007, 11:15 AM
i have no major problems with 10.5 what was wrong with 10.4.10 why you all want .11 so badly somebody fill me in :confused:


It allows use of the period (.) in sentences.

Small White Car
Nov 14, 2007, 11:20 AM
I loaded this up last night and like it. I would have enjoyed a little color with the drawers, but it definitely "fixes" the changing icons "bug" with stacks. One issue this creates is forcing a sort by date modified. Sorting my name can be more useful, especially in the applications folder.

Re-name the icon as "0" and it should always come up first when sorted by name.

Darkroom
Nov 14, 2007, 11:22 AM
I dont know why, but I dont have half the problems you guys have... iChat has never crashed on me in Leo - I use it every day. Multiple chats (in multiple spaces), video, screen sharing on local network, screen sharing across internet, etc. Safari hasnt crashed either.

And Google Earth works just fine.

except for that glob on the left in Google Earth that's suppose to represent text? looks the same way on all leopard machines i think...

Overall Leopard is working well for me and I like it.

But I'm experiencing a problem with Safari not rendering some pages correctly, which it used to render perfectly well in Tiger. This is affecting the Seller's Page on Amazon.com. All the text on this page appears as extremely tiny unreadable clumps.

Also there are several other little things I wish Apple would fix:

The Dock doesn't redraw correctly after you quit a graphics intensive app such as the Zinni Zeala pinball game. Some of the icons appear as green blobs.
When running the "repair preferences" feature of Disk Utility, the progress bar doesn't give any useful info like it used to. Also reparing preferences only took around ten seconds or so on Tiger, but on leopard it takes about 5 minutes - why?
When you select a file name in the Finder, the extension remains unselected - so I then have to reselect all the text.

I'm just hoping that Apple has read my feedback and are fixing these bugs in this release.

any screenshots of the blob? i'd love to see it...

Siemova
Nov 14, 2007, 11:22 AM
I like stacks but I absolutely want to be able to click a folder in the dock and have it open a folder window! To fix this, they simply need to add to the View As menu item. In addition to Fan and Grid, they need Folder. When set to View As Folder, the icon in the dock should remain a folder, it should open a folder window when clicked, and a hierarchical menu when pressed - like in Tiger. Easy and clean.

Sounds like a simple, elegant, awesome solution. I'd be all over it.

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 11:28 AM
Quoted for truth, this is the best description I've heard as to why Stacks Suck (and they do), I suspect the people who like them never used folders in the Dock in Tiger.

I still don't understand why people can't click on "show in finder" in the stack. sure, it's one more click, but you can still open a finder in the dock this way AND get the stack view.

I agree this doesn't fix the contextual menu heirarchial view in the dock. And i also agree that it should be an option to totally bypass the stack option and go straight to folder view.

milo
Nov 14, 2007, 11:29 AM
except for that glob on the left in Google Earth that's suppose to represent text? looks the same way on all leopard machines i think...

I don't have a glob on my leopard machine, in that spot it says "Add Content".

Siemova
Nov 14, 2007, 11:31 AM
I read somewhere--and now I can't for the life of me remember where, unfortunately--that 10.5.1 will enable Apple software to be updated regardless of its location. So we'll be able to put Apple programs into subfolders of the Applications folder, or even another folder altogether. I hope that's true. Could make Stacks a lot more useful. Right now I'm using a bunch of folders full of aliases instead.

tgildred
Nov 14, 2007, 11:42 AM
No but they improved the Stacks engine and it will now suck much harder :D


and faster.

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 11:44 AM
I used "stacks" in Tiger and hell was it awesome. It might not have been called stacks, but placing folders on my dock was a heck lot more functional that stacks. There is nothing new about stacks, its just a shiny less useful version of something many of have been doing for many years. The only people that don't mind stacks are the people that didn't fully utilize their docks in Tiger.


This is an incorrect statement. I utilized folders perfectly in Tiger. The reason Stacks can be better is that:

a) a large icon represents the application instead of just a file name
b) extra unncecessary windows are not opened. why do I need to open an extra finder window to launch an application?

I think that some are not utilizing Stacks properly. For me, I created an extra folder called "Music Apps" and put aliases of all my music applications in this folder and moved this folder into my dock (did the same for all final cut apps).

Now I just click on my "Music Apps" stack and click on the app I need. I can find it easier because a big 'ol icon shows me what I need...AND I don't need to close an extra finder window later.

I love stacks but do feel the idea can be improved upon by bringing back tiger elements to dock folders for those who need them.

EagerDragon
Nov 14, 2007, 11:46 AM
I think that's one of those "That's not a bug, that's a feature!" kind of things. Probably so if you accidently named a document wrong, you don't accidently change the extension.

Most people want to change the name and not the extension, this is a feature for those users that accidentaly change the extension and end up not being able to open the file or opening it with the wrong application.

EagerDragon
Nov 14, 2007, 11:57 AM
Nothing is wrong with the firewall, guys who read FUD :)

Seriously. Its an Application Firewall, not a port/network firewall. Its purpose is to allow or disallow applications from accessing the internet to protect you from malicious servers/apps. It is separate from what you think of as a firewall - ipfw. ipfw still exists in Leopard and works well. What you think of as a firewall is ipfw and works great.

What Apple does need to do is change the terminology of the App Firewall so that its better understood (instead of just being in a KB article) AND add basic IPFW configurability for advanced users.

Sorry but ipfw is no longer enabled/actively filtering by default and the user either needs to jump into the console or needs to download an application to make the rules.

The simple test is a port scan using TCP and UDP, I think you will notice the difference. Run it against Tiger and then Leopard. Also the fact that by default, the Leopard firewall is in allow all mode, makes no sense. Those on laptops or that are otherwise mobile, will not have a Nating router to protect them while on the road.

Any reasonable firewall (port or app based) need to deny by default all connections with just a few exceptions. Not be on allow all and disallow a few.

And the worst part is that no matter how hard you worked in securing the system via the Tiger firewall, Leopard upgrade undid your work and some users did not know to check. I have never heard of an OS, messing with the settings of the firewall if they were set by the user. And in the few cases where LInux changed the entire firewall, it was disabled and you knew ahead of time to redo the work.

Manatee
Nov 14, 2007, 11:59 AM
Ok, the mini-MacBook may not be what I'm hoping for, and the new iPhone features may not be what I'm hoping for, but I think this update is going to be exactly what I want! :)

diamond.g
Nov 14, 2007, 12:04 PM
Most people want to change the name and not the extension, this is a feature for those users that accidentaly change the extension and end up not being able to open the file or opening it with the wrong application.
Shouldn't the extension be hidden by default? If so then why are people changing that behaviour then complaining?

EagerDragon
Nov 14, 2007, 12:04 PM
Any word on whether it will fix Time Machine backups to disks with MBR partitioning schemes?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306932

I'm about to go through a painful backup/restore process to repartition, would love it if I didn't have to.

-puk

Not likely to be fixed ever, that is not really a bug. Wipe the disk, create a single partition and dedicate it to TM.

You will likely see a little more support documents but not a fix.

Shouldn't the extension be hidden by default? If so then why are people changing that behaviour then complaining?

Hey, some people like red some like blue, what is good for one does not satify the next.

To answer your question .... most times the extension is hidden (optional), however when renaming in Tiger you saw the entire name.

TYDZN
Nov 14, 2007, 12:13 PM
I hope if fixes the ability to use custom sounds for iChat alerts. As of now, I can import a sound and it plays fine within the Alert Preferences tab, but all I get is my general system error sound when it's supposed to play.

gmanrique
Nov 14, 2007, 12:22 PM
I though it was just me being paranoid but now I can confirm it is not.

Thanks.

I can "live" a bit longer with many of the problems, but there is one that is just driving me completely nuts...where did my battery go????

I hope they fix this issue. My MBP was getting around 3 hrs of battery time on 10.4.10, but once on 10.5, I barely get 90 minutes!

dadudeness
Nov 14, 2007, 12:24 PM
i hope it fixes several freezing- and crashing problems i have with my MB

lord patton
Nov 14, 2007, 12:25 PM
Ok, that support document you guys linked to gives a solution for using a PPC machine (Apple Partition Map) or an Intel machine (GUID). What about those of us running each machine?

I have a 500 GB external that is partitioned into three volumes: one for a powerbook, one for a macbook, and an extra one for a bootable clone. It was formatted using the Apple Partition Map. As such, it works for my powerbook, but the wife's macbook, although successfully completing the first backup, won't make incremental backups.

Who wouldn't consider this a bug?

Eraserhead
Nov 14, 2007, 12:32 PM
I still don't understand why people can't click on "show in finder" in the stack. sure, it's one more click, but you can still open a finder in the dock this way AND get the stack view.
Yes except you have to go all the way to the top of the stack to access it.

I agree this doesn't fix the contextual menu heirarchial view in the dock. And i also agree that it should be an option to totally bypass the stack option and go straight to folder view.

Which is what was so good about it under Tiger.

asdfTT123
Nov 14, 2007, 12:40 PM
Will this update include better drivers for GMA X3100 for the new SR Macbooks? As I recall from multiple sources, the drivers on the first release of Leopard was rather flaky and poorly optimized.

crees!
Nov 14, 2007, 12:42 PM
I created a set of Spaces for some apps and bound them, then I disabled Spaces all together. Eventhough Spaces is disabled, the apps I assigned are still bound to them. I can still navigate through Spaces even though it's turned off in the preference pane.

Anyone else have this issue?

star-affinity
Nov 14, 2007, 12:43 PM
not to mention the Time Machine bug, when you go to the menu item 'open with...' over a document you get every single backup application show up. Also, I agree with the Safari stability, it crashes way more often.

This is really ironic. I was just going to post that I think it's quite the opposite—been running Safari every day heavily since the Leopard release—and never got a single crash. But Safari just crashed a minute ago when I was scrolling a Gmail... But it's still just one crash. :)

Peace
Nov 14, 2007, 12:46 PM
I created a set of Spaces for some apps and bound them, then I disabled Spaces all together. Eventhough Spaces is disabled, the apps I assigned are still bound to them. I can still navigate through Spaces even though it's turned off in the preference pane.

Anyone else have this issue?

Have you repaired permissions and re-booted since ?


And make sure "Show spaces in menu bar" is deselected.

cdd543
Nov 14, 2007, 12:51 PM
My safari crashes a lot so I welcome the update.

starflyer
Nov 14, 2007, 12:55 PM
And of course the biggie, that you can no longer heirarchically navigate folders sitting in the dock.

My biggest problem, as you mention, is the ever-changing icon. As I mentioned a while ago in another thread, I have several folders docked, and use each of them for various media files while I work, plus the downloads folder and my documents folder.

As I work, download required files, shift stuff between my media folder and documents folder, the icons are not only changing each time but often end up as the same thing (ie, a Quicktime movie icon, an AC3 audio file icon). Within a few minutes I'm totally lost.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Here is a nice solution...

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8812/picture1hd6.png

EDIT: Just saw this post. These overlays really make all the difference in the world!
This doesn't make them perfect, but it really, really helps!

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

I HIGHLY suggest using these!

(NOTE that it's not a hack or a program...just icons you drop in each folder.)

puk
Nov 14, 2007, 01:04 PM
Not likely to be fixed ever, that is not really a bug. Wipe the disk, create a single partition and dedicate it to TM.

You will likely see a little more support documents but not a fix.


It's debatable whether lack of support for this is a bug or not, but their current failure mode is definitely a bug. "Say you can backup and then freeze without an error after 10gb or so" is not really acceptable, so I hope they at least warn you against trying, even if they're not going to add support.

Yes, and backing up all the data I have on there to another disk, wiping the disk, and restoring is exactly the painful process I wanted to avoid. Oh, well.

-puk

commonpeople
Nov 14, 2007, 01:07 PM
I'm just hoping they fix the bug whereby my ibook transforms into a 40 ft robotic killing machine with laser eyes. Anyone else had this problem?

morespce54
Nov 14, 2007, 01:07 PM
Nice.

I'll update once I know all my apps work on 10.5.1.


Great!


That'll probably be around 10.5.5... ;)

CatharticFlux
Nov 14, 2007, 01:08 PM
It would be really nice if they fixed the lack of categories when doing the "Show All" in Spotlight.... I vastly prefer it to coverflow view in this one case.

EVH
Nov 14, 2007, 01:10 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

When applying system updates do you guys recommend doing a permissions-repair?

seashellz2
Nov 14, 2007, 01:14 PM
well, that was quick.


Maybe a little TOO quick


I hope they get it right this time

Peace
Nov 14, 2007, 01:16 PM
It's debatable whether lack of support for this is a bug or not, but their current failure mode is definitely a bug. "Say you can backup and then freeze without an error after 10gb or so" is not really acceptable, so I hope they at least warn you against trying, even if they're not going to add support.

Yes, and backing up all the data I have on there to another disk, wiping the disk, and restoring is exactly the painful process I wanted to avoid. Oh, well.

-puk


There is no debate.A hard drive formatted as MBR is not a bug.It's what happens when you buy a new HD since most drives come that way.
There are lots of documentation on what format any external disk should be in before using it for TM.

diamond.g
Nov 14, 2007, 01:22 PM
Ok, that support document you guys linked to gives a solution for using a PPC machine (Apple Partition Map) or an Intel machine (GUID). What about those of us running each machine?

I have a 500 GB external that is partitioned into three volumes: one for a powerbook, one for a macbook, and an extra one for a bootable clone. It was formatted using the Apple Partition Map. As such, it works for my powerbook, but the wife's macbook, although successfully completing the first backup, won't make incremental backups.

Who wouldn't consider this a bug?

Can the PPC machine recognize GPT? If so then just partition it that way and let TM take care of the rest.

seashellz2
Nov 14, 2007, 01:27 PM
>>>maybe 10.4.11 was scrapped....
-----
well, as it seemed to be just minutes away from being released at a couple of points. I doubt theyd throw all that work out as it fixed a few still annoying problems from 10.4.10.-which many people still use-especailly after all the 'rave' reviews on 10.5

And anyway, after a disastrous meticulous clean install of 10.5 only-NOTHING else to blame- I will wait for 10.5.2-assuming that it gets things right.

I really do hate paying APPLE $129 for the privilge of being a beta seed tester. Which I think is what 10.5 really is.
No final testing-just shoved out the door as-is because of the magical "Oct 26" date that had to be adheared to...

Another really odd thing-SU offered to update my HP printer (?!). Unfortunately the only place to configure it was the printer preference pane.
No other icon confuring. HP printer selector used to reside in Utilities. Same with printer setup Utility.
You could also put a desktop print job icon on the desktop for a quick look at whats up.
Not too thrilling now


Anyway 10.4.11 will be a quantum leap over 10.5...;-)

milo
Nov 14, 2007, 01:31 PM
There is no debate.A hard drive formatted as MBR is not a bug.It's what happens when you buy a new HD since most drives come that way.
There are lots of documentation on what format any external disk should be in before using it for TM.

But TM should just give an error before backing up at all, something like "TM only works on a disk formatted XYZ". Backing up 10 gigs and then stopping is poor behaviour on the app's part.

Virgil-TB2
Nov 14, 2007, 01:36 PM
This is an incorrect statement. I utilized folders perfectly in Tiger. The reason Stacks can be better is that:

a) a large icon represents the application instead of just a file name
b) extra unncecessary windows are not opened. why do I need to open an extra finder window to launch an application?

I think that some are not utilizing Stacks properly. For me, I created an extra folder called "Music Apps" and put aliases of all my music applications in this folder and moved this folder into my dock (did the same for all final cut apps).

Now I just click on my "Music Apps" stack and click on the app I need. I can find it easier because a big 'ol icon shows me what I need...AND I don't need to close an extra finder window later.

I love stacks but do feel the idea can be improved upon by bringing back tiger elements to dock folders for those who need them.Exactly.

I was not trying to claim that there is not a problem for some users, just that it's a bit overblown when you consider all of the facts.

I'm a picky user also, it bugs me that my downloads stack is always ugly and that I can't replace it with a nicer icon, but it's just not the unmitigated disaster that it's being made out to be.

iJawn108
Nov 14, 2007, 01:37 PM
:D bring it on!

Peace
Nov 14, 2007, 01:37 PM
But TM should just give an error before backing up at all, something like "TM only works on a disk formatted XYZ". Backing up 10 gigs and then stopping is poor behaviour on the app's part.

I agree.It should give that error.But it doesn't.

And to be honest with you it really won't matter in a couple of months.

lord patton
Nov 14, 2007, 01:42 PM
Can the PPC machine recognize GPT? If so then just partition it that way and let TM take care of the rest.

Maybe I'll have to try that... but given that the support document gives an either/or (ppc/intel) solution, I'm not hopeful.

How do you back up a Time Machine backup? Can you drag the backups.backupdb to a (different) external drive and then bring it back after reformatting? I know I could just start TM from scratch, but I'm wondering if I'd have to.

Also, does each computer's TM need it's own partition, or can they use the same volume? Can you resize a partition without losing data?

ryanide
Nov 14, 2007, 01:45 PM
Disable spotlight indexing on all drives during your initial backup. It worked for me, I was having the same problem on my initial time machine backup

how do you disable it?? Uncheck all in the System Preferences? But then does Time Machine still work correctly?

Analog Kid
Nov 14, 2007, 01:45 PM
Its a pretty solution for something that already was in Tiger. What is wrong with it? It would probably be easier to mention what ISN'T wrong. First off the displayed stack MOVES when you have the Genie effect on. So take your mouse off the dock and your target moves. Its worse on Fan view then grid so I don't use Fan for ANYTHING. Nice design Apple. Second the icon in the dock is ever changing. This is beyond retarded and speaks to the notion that this was Jobs's baby and NO ONE would dare tell him its a flawed idea. I mean really. What the heck use is an icon as a representation of a folder if it continually changes? Third "view as" should have a open in finder so people who want the "normal" view can get it. Fourth. The view is SLOW as hell to show the contents of the icon. I have my docs folder in the dock and it takes a good 3 seconds to change the icons to preview icons granted I have about 50 files in that folder but still. Once you do it once its fine but it looks unprofessional to watch your icons render because Apple did a crap job on Stacks. There are probably more. I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Funny. I see it as a feature they put in to please the crowd. Remember all the hullabaloo about Piles (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=24375) a while back?

Jetson
Nov 14, 2007, 01:50 PM
I think that's one of those "That's not a bug, that's a feature!" kind of things. Probably so if you accidently named a document wrong, you don't accidently change the extension.
I was thinking the same thing as I was typing this particular item.

One person's bug is another's feature, eh? :D

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 01:54 PM
Yes except you have to go all the way to the top of the stack to access it.



heaven forbid you should have to take an extra 10 ms out of your day to get there :D

daveL
Nov 14, 2007, 01:54 PM
Im starting to think the 10.4.11 update has been scraped. There has been no word on it for weeks. Certainly no more developer releases anyway. Plus Apple never released an update for an OS that has been superseded. Security updates excepted.
Anyway, Why hold of on Tiger altogether just because of this small update!? 10.4.10 is a big step forward over any release of 10.3

As for you guys that are clearly getting all moist about 10.5.1.. Seriously guys, get a grip of yourselves.

10.4.11 is waiting for the Mac Pro update to be released ;)

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by vassillios
I agree this doesn't fix the contextual menu heirarchial view in the dock. And i also agree that it should be an option to totally bypass the stack option and go straight to folder view.



Which is what was so good about it under Tiger.

except that it would take FOREVER for the applications folder hierarchical menu to render

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 02:07 PM
Exactly.

I was not trying to claim that there is not a problem for some users, just that it's a bit overblown when you consider all of the facts.

I'm a picky user also, it bugs me that my downloads stack is always ugly and that I can't replace it with a nicer icon, but it's just not the unmitigated disaster that it's being made out to be.


Try doing what I did. Create a folder in your downloads folder and name it 0 (the number 0). Do a "Get Info" on the original Downloads folder, click Apple C on the Icon at the top of the Get Info box. Go to the newly created folder and do a get info on it and click Apple V on the icon at the top.

You now have a folder with the Downloads icon on it that will always be placed first in the stack (if you sort by name).

This is not a new hint and is very quick and easy.

oogje
Nov 14, 2007, 02:10 PM
...I really do hate paying APPLE $129 for the privilge of being a beta seed tester. Which I think is what 10.5 really is.
No final testing-just shoved out the door as-is because of the magical "Oct 26" date that had to be adheared to...


$129 is a bargain. An ADC Select membership is $500.

Peace
Nov 14, 2007, 02:11 PM
Try doing what I did. Create a folder in your downloads folder and name it 0 (the number 0). Do a "Get Info" on the original Downloads folder, click Apple C on the Icon at the top of the Get Info box. Go to the newly created folder and do a get info on it and click Apple V on the icon at the top.

You now have a folder with the Downloads icon on it that will always be placed first in the stack (if you sort by name).

This is not a new hint and is very quick and easy.

That only works if you sort by date added.Try sorting "by kind".;)

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 02:12 PM
That only works if you sort by date added.Try sorting "by kind".;)


As stated "if you sort by name".

My suggestion was not meant as a solution but a workaround.

Peace
Nov 14, 2007, 02:13 PM
As stated "if you sort by name"

So what's the purpose of putting a folder in there then ?

akac
Nov 14, 2007, 02:14 PM
Sorry but ipfw is no longer enabled/actively filtering by default and the user either needs to jump into the console or needs to download an application to make the rules.

Agreed - that is why I said Apple needs to put in an "Advanced" section for users to be able to control ipfw in addition to the application firewall. To be honest, I think the app firewall is simply better for the majority of users out there for the purpose of a firewall. They want things to "just work" and that's what it does - it protects the user by application instead of simply by port. BTW - my experience is very heavy in networking, including setting up Solaris, Sun OS, Linux, FreeBSD, and OS X network environments using Cisco, Raptor, and ipfw, ipchains, etc...

The simple test is a port scan using TCP and UDP, I think you will notice the difference. Run it against Tiger and then Leopard. Also the fact that by default, the Leopard firewall is in allow all mode, makes no sense. Those on laptops or that are otherwise mobile, will not have a Nating router to protect them while on the road.

I know the difference. The question is not is it different - YES its different! The question is does it still protect an average user and I say that both do, in different ways. Most people will be better served by the App firewall.

Any reasonable firewall (port or app based) need to deny by default all connections with just a few exceptions. Not be on allow all and disallow a few.


Agreed. But that's a settings issue, not an issue with the firewall itself.

And the worst part is that no matter how hard you worked in securing the system via the Tiger firewall, Leopard upgrade undid your work and some users did not know to check. I have never heard of an OS, messing with the settings of the firewall if they were set by the user. And in the few cases where LInux changed the entire firewall, it was disabled and you knew ahead of time to redo the work.

Agreed.

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 02:16 PM
I agree.It should give that error.But it doesn't.

And to be honest with you it really won't matter in a couple of months.

hmmmmm, please do tell! ZFS?

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 02:16 PM
So what's the purpose of putting a folder in there then ?

So that it represents what the stack is for.

morespce54
Nov 14, 2007, 02:32 PM
...The reason Stacks can be better is that:...
b) extra unncecessary windows are not opened. why do I need to open an extra finder window to launch an application?...

Well, good to know some people like it.

Your point is good but I *don't* have to open an extra window to launch an application... Because I have this application called Application-launcher! ;) (Quicksilver, in my case)

If Stacks is Apple response to a problem a *lot* or users are facing for ages (launch application without opening an extra window or do the mouse-keyboard-mouse-keyboard routine), I think it's a missed opportunity.

I do think it looks cool 'tho. For me, it's cool-but-useless feature.

dudemac
Nov 14, 2007, 02:37 PM
Exactly.

I was not trying to claim that there is not a problem for some users, just that it's a bit overblown when you consider all of the facts.



I submitted my thoughts on Stacks and how the functionality is totally crippled from what was first demoed. I don't understand why apple decided to combined stacks and folders and eliminate the original features with something that is almost totally unusable.
Here is how I think Stacks should work. Arbitrary selection and grouping ( this is the way it was originally demoed). That way if I have folder full of stuff I just select the stuff I want grouped and then drop it on the dock no need to first put it in a different folder. (which as it is now kind of defeats the whole purpose of stacks)

A Folder could be a Stack but this would be optional, preserving the original functionality.

Finally the dock would eliminate the arbitrary line between apps and folders/links/minimized windows. There is no reason for this. And if Stacks worked like I envision I could have a Stack of documents next to my stack of Word processing apps and a Stack of photos next to my Stack of Photo programs....etc. If they wanted to keep the minimized windows to one side that would be ok, but they could be minimized next to their icons in the Dock which would probably work better.
Anyway, this is how I think Stacks should work.

I encourage everyone frustrated with this problem to let apple know. This is a big screw up and it has made me consider re-installing Tiger to get rid of this "stacks" feature. Something that I was really excited about until I tried to use it as shipped.

thedude

vassillios
Nov 14, 2007, 02:51 PM
I submitted my thoughts on Stacks and how the functionality is totally crippled from what was first demoed. I don't understand why apple decided to combined stacks and folders and eliminate the original features with something that is almost totally unusable.
Here is how I think Stacks should work. Arbitrary selection and grouping ( this is the way it was originally demoed). That way if I have folder full of stuff I just select the stuff I want grouped and then drop it on the dock no need to first put it in a different folder. (which as it is now kind of defeats the whole purpose of stacks)

A Folder could be a Stack but this would be optional, preserving the original functionality.

Finally the dock would eliminate the arbitrary line between apps and folders/links/minimized windows. There is no reason for this. And if Stacks worked like I envision I could have a Stack of documents next to my stack of Word processing apps and a Stack of photos next to my Stack of Photo programs....etc. If they wanted to keep the minimized windows to one side that would be ok, but they could be minimized next to their icons in the Dock which would probably work better.
Anyway, this is how I think Stacks should work.

I encourage everyone frustrated with this problem to let apple know. This is a big screw up and it has made me consider re-installing Tiger to get rid of this "stacks" feature. Something that I was really excited about until I tried to use it as shipped.

thedude


I'm beginning to think i'm using stacks wrong as I have NO problems with the way they work. My workflow has improved and I can navigate way faster.

RedTomato
Nov 14, 2007, 02:51 PM
did I see that some people are still on Panther?????? c'mon, give me a break, you're obviously not utilizing your Mac for anything worth while. You'll be lucky to even install Leopard on a Panther machine.

Your newbie underwear is showing!

I run Panther on a Powerbook 1.5 ghz 15''. It's nearly 3 years old, and still works fine.

It beats the *newest* macbook in the following ways:

Better graphics card.
Better frame rates in UT2004, and Doom 3.
backlight keyboard
better keyboard
bigger screen
Expresscard slot (I can add eSATA, spare FW800 ports, GPS etc)

On ebay UK, my laptop sells for around £400+ ($800). That's looking at the *completed* sales.

Try selling a 3 year old windows machine for £400.

Apples last longer than your windows machines. I haven't bothered to upgrade to Tiger as Panther does what I want.

I'll be buying a macbook soon for portablity and the isight, but my Powerbook is still a workhorse and has paid for itself many times over.

luke-j-s
Nov 14, 2007, 03:04 PM
Can't wait to try it.




after everyone else has. ;)

Why? is there still risks in installing updates?

Steve Works
Nov 14, 2007, 03:21 PM
have? well i'm patient with Apple, they'll deliver, right now things are so busy and crazy all over the company that its actually quite amazing that they're even delivering as they have!

:)

i don't know what is it with you guys....if this was something related do microsoft you would be like "oh this piece of crap...of course its microsoft full of bugs and badly misconcepted"

but hence it's Apple... "ohh ok...we'll wait coz apple ROCKS!!! Steve Jobs is GOD on earth"
... -_-'

jragosta
Nov 14, 2007, 03:26 PM
And of course the biggie, that you can no longer heirarchically navigate folders sitting in the dock.

Absolutely #1 problem with Leopard for me. I used hierarchical menus in Tiger to open any file I wanted - usually several folders deep. With Leopard, I have to open the stack. select the folder I want, then use Finder to migrate to the file I want, then after the file opens, go back to Finder to close the folder.

That's enough of a pain that I'm using a slightly less painful method most of the time - launch the app, close the blank file it creates, then use the 'open file' command and migrate to the app.

Either of these is vastly slower than doing it the Tiger way. I hope Apple offers that as an option after an upgrade or at least that some third party developer enables it (although I usually stay away from hacks, I'd add that one).

Apple messed this one up badly.

jragosta
Nov 14, 2007, 03:31 PM
I haven't been able to read through all the posts yet, but I'm just posting this work around for the stack's icons here because I haven't seen in mentioned in any of the threads I've read:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/11/12/enhance-stacks-with-stacks-overlays

Like I said, it's a work around, but seems like it might be preferable to any other options so far? I don't have Leopard yet - I'm just trying not to assume everyone knows about this, just in case people haven't tried it yet.

That only addresses the appearance issue of the stacks (which, to me, is a trivial matter, although others think it's important). The real problem with Stacks is the loss of hierarchical menu functionality to a kludge that takes many times more effort.

theBrit
Nov 14, 2007, 03:31 PM
I'm wondering whether the folks having problems with Leopard are the ones that did an upgrade instead of a clean install? I did a clean install of Leopard and have not had one single problem with this new OS. It is faster and so far, Safari is stable and quick. In addition, installing Leopard repaired my noisy beeping power supply (which was a known bug with the G5s). Again, no problems here. If there are bugs that I have yet to come across, then I'm sure v10.1 will correct them.

jragosta
Nov 14, 2007, 03:34 PM
Wah, wah, wah! :(

I am getting so tired of hearing this stuff about stacks. They are missing the ability to customise the icon on the top and the ability to navigate the stack. Big deal. It's already been implied that the functionality will likely be added back soon as well as the ability to use "smart stacks."

I agree with you about the appearance issues with Stacks. I disagree with you on the functionality issue. Under Tiger, I could get to any file on my hard disk in a single click and drag. Let's see how that works on Leopard:
1. Click on folder in dock
2. Click on the folder I want
3. Keep double clicking on folders until I see the file I want
4. Double click the file I want
5. Go back to the Finder
6. Close the folder which was left open
7. Go back to the application and start working

That's a HUGE increase in effort to do something that is as common as opening a file. I do that dozens of times a day - and Leopard's process stinks.

With all the other things that could be wrong about an Operating system.... The Stack issues are really Trivial & Cosmetic.

Not the loss of hierarchical menus. That's a major loss of functionality.

johnnyjibbs
Nov 14, 2007, 03:44 PM
This doesn't make them perfect, but it really, really helps!

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

I HIGHLY suggest using these!

(NOTE that it's not a hack or a program...just icons you drop in each folder.)
I do have to say that these actually look pretty neat, and go a long way towards intuitive interface guidelines, which the current implementation is lacking. Of course, I and many other people don't want to nor should have to tinker with the terminal - and of course you're stuck with the folder icon cluttering up the stack and its underlying folder. And herein lies my beef. Why does Apple have t take something that was perfectly good before and then completely ruin it? There's still less functionality now than there was before.

It doesn't look like Apple is going to change this for 10.5.1 but I'm hoping that the dust will have settled enough by the time 10.5.2 comes around for Apple to then admit defeat. :mad:

mikes63737
Nov 14, 2007, 03:47 PM
I hope it fixes the sleep problems I've been having with my MBP

psychofreak
Nov 14, 2007, 03:48 PM
Disk Utility has to be fixed properly, and I would like the cool effects done officially (moving mouth, hologram)...

dudemac
Nov 14, 2007, 03:57 PM
I'm beginning to think i'm using stacks wrong as I have NO problems with the way they work. My workflow has improved and I can navigate way faster.

I am just wondering how you use them.
In my view I will have to do extra work to make this useful. I don't care about the Dock icon, but the functionality is not what I expected at all. For example, I used to keep my applications folder in the dock. If i wanted an application I could just bring up a big scrolling list, and if the program installed itself in a sub-folder I could navigate to them. However now not all programs are displayed because grid view has a limit and if something happens to be in a sub-folder when you click on it a finder window opens.... which creates an extra step.
So in order to make stacks useful I would need to create folders with an alias to a group of applications. This is because there is no arbitrary selection... which was originally shown. This is what I expected. Why do I have to keep track of what apps or documents I want grouped together in folders first in order to use stacks. If arbitrary selection was allowed I would be able to select Documents and some apps and then just drag them to the dock.
But unfortunately this is not the way it works. In fact it looks like they combined folders and stacks which in my mind should be completely separate.

siphyn87
Nov 14, 2007, 04:02 PM
damn just when I thought there was a possibility of it being scrapped the 10.4.11 update is finally released.

skunk
Nov 14, 2007, 05:51 PM
There were no known issues at that time.This should be engraved on its headstone.

Mr. Zorg
Nov 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
This doesn't make them perfect, but it really, really helps!

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

I HIGHLY suggest using these!

(NOTE that it's not a hack or a program...just icons you drop in each folder.)
Wow, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, it really does go a long way to making it better. Apple, are you listening?!?

egsaxy
Nov 14, 2007, 06:31 PM
hooray just in time for me to purchase my mac mini.

TheChemist
Nov 14, 2007, 07:10 PM
This doesn't make them perfect, but it really, really helps!

http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

I HIGHLY suggest using these!

(NOTE that it's not a hack or a program...just icons you drop in each folder.)


Download link is dead. Can someone upload elsewhere??? These look really useful.

AidenShaw
Nov 14, 2007, 07:52 PM
I'm sure that many of the fixes were made after Leopard went GM, but before it hit the shelves; that's the joy of having the internet. Ten years ago things had to be right before they shipped; I recall receiving a free Office update on multiple floppies :eek:

Twenty years ago I was working in an OS development team where we shipped the .1 kit along with the .0 9-track magnetic tapes.

Once the "GM" tapes were finalized, only bugs that were so serious that you probably couldn't keep your machine up long enough to apply the .1 update were fixed by redoing the "GM" tapes.

We called it the "Mandatory Update", and it was a huge improvement over trying to get the GM tapes right.

mbalson
Nov 14, 2007, 08:15 PM
Download link is dead. Can someone upload elsewhere??? These look really useful.

Yes, I would appreciate this as well.

Edit: This page (http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860) has been updated with a new download link.

Quillz
Nov 14, 2007, 08:16 PM
does it make stacks not suck?
Hopefully. All I want is for the original behavior of Stacks to be restored, that is, that it emulated the hierarchal folder browsing of Tiger. This was in build 9A466 and I never understood why it was removed.

blybug
Nov 14, 2007, 08:49 PM
And of course the biggie, that you can no longer heirarchically navigate folders sitting in the dock.

My biggest problem, as you mention, is the ever-changing icon. As I mentioned a while ago in another thread, I have several folders docked, and use each of them for various media files while I work, plus the downloads folder and my documents folder.

As I work, download required files, shift stuff between my media folder and documents folder, the icons are not only changing each time but often end up as the same thing (ie, a Quicktime movie icon, an AC3 audio file icon). Within a few minutes I'm totally lost.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Within each of my docked folders which are now Leopardized "stacks," I have placed an alias to the actual folder itself, renamed it "---", and sort my fnas/grids alphabetically. This keeps the frontmost icon constant as the icon of the folder (ie Applications, Downloads, etc) and also makes the first item in fan view (the alias) functionally a "Show in Finder" button.

Appearance wise it is more satisfying because now it actually looks like my Application/Documents/Downloads folder is sitting there stuffed full of stuff, instead of looking like my alphabetically first application lying on a bunch of other junk.

Too bad there's not built in options for stacks to behave this way automatically, or an option to display as a menu like Tiger used to do by default. Why take that away???

KristenM
Nov 14, 2007, 08:55 PM
Please let it fix this obnoxious keyboard issue with my new MacBook. This is my second one in 1 1/2 weeks and it's cut out 8 times in the last hour alone. Ever try typing a paper when the keyboard dies every few minutes and you have to close and open the lid several times to make it work again? Yeah, it's not much fun.

John Musbach
Nov 14, 2007, 11:58 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret believes (http://notes.thinksecret.com/secretnotes/0711macosx1051.shtml) that Apple is about ready to release the first update to Mac OS X Leopard.

Mac OS X 10.5.1 has been undergoing testing by developers over the past two weeks, and ThinkSecret claims that it has been finalized at build 9B18. The last build made available to developers was 9B16 and was released seeded earlier this week (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/apple-continues-work-on-first-leopard-update-10-5-1-build-9b16/). There were no known issues at that time.

The update is expected to simply provide stability, compatibility, and security improvements for Leopard.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/14/mac-os-x-10-5-1-update-finalized/)
This is good news, would be nice if Apple will be synchronizing the Leopard update releases with the Tiger update releases :)

sparky672
Nov 15, 2007, 12:07 AM
Yes, I would appreciate this as well.

Edit: This page (http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860) has been updated with a new download link.

It's dead now too.

Master Atrus
Nov 15, 2007, 12:14 AM
I looked at the top of the page and finally saw the updated links ...

matticus008
Nov 15, 2007, 01:29 AM
Oh, and does anyone else feel spotlight is unusable in Leopard? It doesn't really find stuff it used to find and when I click "Show All" I get a cluttered up Finder window with different sorting.
YES! I miss the old Spotlight window. I don't know what exactly the improvement was by going to the disastrous Finder search view, which has sucked for years.
Finder searching was already there in Tiger (although with less fine searching)!
Finder should have been reformatted to show results like Spotlight did. The advanced search options at the top can stay.
This is good news, would be nice if Apple will be synchronizing the Leopard update releases with the Tiger update releases :)
What Tiger updates? They're basically over aside from small security patches. They just released the "cleanup" version that accompanies the launch of a new OS. That has traditionally been the end of the line.

jragosta
Nov 15, 2007, 07:19 AM
This is good news, would be nice if Apple will be synchronizing the Leopard update releases with the Tiger update releases :)

Why?

zen
Nov 15, 2007, 07:29 AM
It's dead now too.
New link back up at http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

Personally, I love this! It's a fix, quite clever but still a band aid, but it's a start. Apple REALLY need to take a look at this - the idea of a transparent "tray" icon which sits over the top, while the content icons change as they normally do, is terrific. Here's my dock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Stack.jpg

Problem solved for now!

yudilks
Nov 15, 2007, 08:33 AM
New link back up at http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

Personally, I love this! It's a fix, quite clever but still a band aid, but it's a start. Apple REALLY need to take a look at this - the idea of a transparent "tray" icon which sits over the top, while the content icons change as they normally do, is terrific. Here's my dock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Stack.jpg

Problem solved for now!
Wow, this is really great.. Thanks

sir42
Nov 15, 2007, 08:36 AM
I hope this fixes the iCal/iPhone sync problem that's preventing events created on the iPhone from syncing back to iCal.

sunfast
Nov 15, 2007, 08:41 AM
whatever happens with Stacks in the future, I hope that Apple improves them rather than ditching them completely.

In tiger in only had my Apps folder docked and used to browse it a bit like a windows start menu. This I miss.

I like my download stack though, that's dead useful.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 08:43 AM
I am just wondering how you use them.
In my view I will have to do extra work to make this useful. I don't care about the Dock icon, but the functionality is not what I expected at all. For example, I used to keep my applications folder in the dock. If i wanted an application I could just bring up a big scrolling list, and if the program installed itself in a sub-folder I could navigate to them. However now not all programs are displayed because grid view has a limit and if something happens to be in a sub-folder when you click on it a finder window opens.... which creates an extra step.
So in order to make stacks useful I would need to create folders with an alias to a group of applications. This is because there is no arbitrary selection... which was originally shown. This is what I expected. Why do I have to keep track of what apps or documents I want grouped together in folders first in order to use stacks. If arbitrary selection was allowed I would be able to select Documents and some apps and then just drag them to the dock.
But unfortunately this is not the way it works. In fact it looks like they combined folders and stacks which in my mind should be completely separate.

Why don't you use Spotlight? I find what I'm looking for without having to look through folders and it just involves one click once I see what I'm searching for. Just wondering....


Now, what I don't understand/like about the aesthetics of the Stacks is how items stack up. The new dock design makes it seem like it it a flat surface that is parallel with the keyboard or your desk. Shouldn't the Stacks stack up towards the top of the screen instead of out of the screen towards me? A stack of something is a pile of something, not a bunch of flat items leaning against each other. It almost seems like the Stacks designers weren't working together or communicating with the new Dock designers.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 08:44 AM
New link back up at http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

Personally, I love this! It's a fix, quite clever but still a band aid, but it's a start. Apple REALLY need to take a look at this - the idea of a transparent "tray" icon which sits over the top, while the content icons change as they normally do, is terrific. Here's my dock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Stack.jpg

Problem solved for now!

It looks like the link to download the custom drawers with the different icons on them is dead. Anyone know of another linky?
EDIT: Never mind, it's back.

sunfast
Nov 15, 2007, 08:48 AM
Now, what I don't understand/like about the aesthetics of the Stacks is how items stack up. The new dock design makes it seem like it it a flat surface that is parallel with the keyboard or your desk. Shouldn't the Stacks stack up towards the top of the screen instead of out of the screen towards me? A stack of something is a pile of something, not a bunch of flat items leaning against each other. It almost seems like the Stacks designers weren't working together or communicating with the new Dock designers.

That's a very good point. Hadn't occurred to me

dalvin200
Nov 15, 2007, 08:51 AM
I hope this fixes the iCal/iPhone sync problem that's preventing events created on the iPhone from syncing back to iCal.

never had this problem myself..

skeen
Nov 15, 2007, 08:53 AM
I've been using Leopard every day, since the day it came out, and haven't had a single issue with it. So I can't say I'm looking forward to 10.5.1, as I'm not going to notice a thing LOL.

But updates do make me feel fuzzy inside.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 10:16 AM
Stacks is an incredible failure. I could see it as a success if it were released on OS 9, but this will make things more difficult and time consuming at work now once we get our computers 'upgraded' to leopard (personally, id see it now as a downgrade). The shortcut folders i have in Tiger allow me to quickly access frequently needed documents in hierarchal order, without opening the finder, ever. As well, I dont even need to open the finder at all, ever as I can drop the system disk icon from my desktop to my dock and access everything from there. Almost makes the finder obsolete.

Stacks needs to either;

a) be removed completely and have Tiger's sub-folder view
b) have stacks be modified to allow either grid, fan or sub-folder view

I'd expect such an embarrassment from microsoft, but not apple.

Manic Mouse
Nov 15, 2007, 10:28 AM
Stacks are great.

milo
Nov 15, 2007, 10:45 AM
Stacks are great.

Thank you for your enlightening and informative contribution to the discussion.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 10:48 AM
I must say, I've downloaded and utilized the Stacks Drawers Modification, and it really makes a big difference aesthetically. Now I know which stack is which without having to hover over each one.

It's such a simple solution, but it works. Now I have to see if I won't mind the new sorting option that must be used: 'Sort by Date Modified'. That may prove to be annoying in a large stack that would be better organized alphabetically.
We'll see though......

Now if only I can change the bright blue lights below each open application on the Dock to a different colour that is easier to see.....

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 10:52 AM
Now if only I can change the bright blue lights below each open application on the Dock to a different colour that is easier to see.....

Thats another thing that bugs me, it looks rushed and like a cheap windows imitation of OS X aqua, you know, like all those winamp skins made by amateur designers?

Id keep it like it was, a black triangle, this blue glow is barely noticeable and ugly.

Hard Nard
Nov 15, 2007, 11:00 AM
I do have to say that these actually look pretty neat, and go a long way towards intuitive interface guidelines, which the current implementation is lacking. Of course, I and many other people don't want to nor should have to tinker with the terminal - and of course you're stuck with the folder icon cluttering up the stack and its underlying folder.

Like you I don't want to fool around in Terminal, but I think these have been changed so that all you have to do is drop one onto the Stack you want to change and it automatically stays on top of the other items. At least that''s how it's working for me. And I like the way these new icons look - fits the Leopard folder theme very nicely.

Manic Mouse
Nov 15, 2007, 11:04 AM
Thank you for your enlightening and informative contribution to the discussion.

Can you see the irony in your post? Very good (or bad)!

What I mean is that they do what they say on the tin. The problem people here have isn't a problem with stacks, it's that they can't put folders in the dock in the same way they could in tiger. Stacks isn't and was never meant to be a folder in the dock, but a quick way to access the things in a particular folder. The problem is that Apple have replaced one functionality with another that's different, there should be an option for both.

gwangung
Nov 15, 2007, 11:08 AM
Thats another thing that bugs me, it looks rushed and like a cheap windows imitation of OS X aqua, you know, like all those winamp skins made by amateur designers?

Id keep it like it was, a black triangle, this blue glow is barely noticeable and ugly.

Interesting.

When I put the dock on the right side, the blue orbs stand out clear as day (much better than the triangles in 10.4). I think that's because the dock is shaded darker in Leopard, which increases the contrast.

Hard Nard
Nov 15, 2007, 11:15 AM
Stacks needs to either;

b) have stacks be modified to allow either grid, fan or sub-folder view




Maybe I misunderstand your comment, but doesn't Stacks already allow you to specify Automatic/Fan/Grid display, leaving only your sub-folder view as not available?

I've found Stacks very useful so far, in fact I use it where I never used the folder-in-dock method of Tiger. My only gripe would be that the most current Document be the first in the Stack rather than the 123rd or whatever...

milo
Nov 15, 2007, 11:21 AM
Interesting.

When I put the dock on the right side, the blue orbs stand out clear as day (much better than the triangles in 10.4). I think that's because the dock is shaded darker in Leopard, which increases the contrast.

I'd agree that the 2D version of the dock has much more visible blue dots. I've been OK with them since I tweaked my bottom dock to the 2D version.

mountainbiker80
Nov 15, 2007, 11:22 AM
Who knew that so many people could complain about something so silly! LOL! :p

milo
Nov 15, 2007, 11:25 AM
Who knew that so many people could complain about something so silly! LOL! :p

With so many people complaining, maybe that means it's not silly.

It's a functionality issue where an action can take much longer than it did before. That's a legit issue and apple should fix it.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 11:28 AM
With so many people complaining, maybe that means it's not silly.

It's a functionality issue where an action can take much longer than it did before. That's a legit issue and apple should fix it.

Yes, some of us also use a computer and OS X's feature for, wait for......work!

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 11:29 AM
With so many people complaining, maybe that means it's not silly.

It's a functionality issue where an action can take much longer than it did before. That's a legit issue and apple should fix it.

An action can take "much longer" ?

What's that like one extra click or 1 second?

milo
Nov 15, 2007, 11:32 AM
An action can take "much longer" ?

What's that like one extra click or 1 second?

This has been detailed earlier in this thread. Before, drilling down through a folder directory could be done with one click, now it requires a number of clicks plus opening and closing folder windows.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 11:33 AM
An action can take "much longer" ?

What's that like one extra click or 1 second?

Its more like a few more seconds multiplied by about 100 times a day.

Do you have a job or are you just a teenager in high school?

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 11:35 AM
Its more like a few more seconds multiplied by about 100 times a day.

Do you have a job or are you just a teenager in high school?

I have a job.And I'm probably much older than you.;)

Personal insults arn't nice in MR btw.:)

Look folks I'd like to see Apple redo stacks like they had in 9a466 but things are changing and in the future we might understand why.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 11:39 AM
I have a job.And I'm probably much older than you.;)

So then why is the concept so difficult for you to understand that its more than just an extra click or a few seconds?

lamina
Nov 15, 2007, 11:44 AM
I don't know what you all are whining about...

My stacks are attached.

The first is my download folder. It's always in the same place, so I know where it is and what's there.

The second is my school folder.

Edit: The point is, if you keep your stack icons in the same place, there shouldn't be a problem with knowing which is which.

vassillios
Nov 15, 2007, 11:46 AM
Thats another thing that bugs me, it looks rushed and like a cheap windows imitation of OS X aqua, you know, like all those winamp skins made by amateur designers?

Id keep it like it was, a black triangle, this blue glow is barely noticeable and ugly.

I used to think the blue dots were ambiguous at first too...but they became very noticable after a few days...but I switched to the 2D shortly thereafter....and will never switch back again. I find the 2D dock very clean and straight forward and much nicer and modern than the Tiger dock...just my 2 cents though.

milo
Nov 15, 2007, 11:47 AM
I don't know what you all are whining about...

Your post makes that obvious. Maybe you should read the thread.

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 11:47 AM
So then why is the concept so difficult for you to understand that its more than just an extra click or a few seconds?

Tell ya what..You tell me what repetitive task you are doing that makes you have to click through stacks several times to get to what you are doing a lot of and I'll give you a good workaround.

Please do this in a step by step fashion because that's what I'm used to seeing.

vassillios
Nov 15, 2007, 11:51 AM
So then why is the concept so difficult for you to understand that its more than just an extra click or a few seconds?

For YOU it is more than an extra click or so....for me, I just click on "show in finder" and i'm good (if I need to). I don't even need the contextual menu in the dock now that I have stacks...and to tell you the truth...it would be like 5 extra clicks if i needed to use the hierarchical contextual menu in the dock and it would take quite some time for all files to render this way (app folder for instance).

lesson here? to each their own. For me? stacks makes life WAAAAY easier.

And before you say "but you have to go to the top of the stack"...as Artie would say..."WAAAAAHHHHH"

vassillios
Nov 15, 2007, 11:58 AM
Tell ya what..You tell me what repetitive task you are doing that makes you have to click through stacks several times to get to what you are doing a lot of and I'll give you a good workaround.

Please do this in a step by step fashion because that's what I'm used to seeing.


Good idea Peace...that is the only way we can figure out how stacks may be lacking...for those who it is lacking for.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 12:06 PM
Tell ya what..You tell me what repetitive task you are doing that makes you have to click through stacks several times to get to what you are doing a lot of and I'll give you a good workaround.

Please do this in a step by step fashion because that's what I'm used to seeing.

I have a folder with several subfolder and several files in each sub folder to access needed documents on a regular basis at work. Apart from that, i use the same method for shortcuts to apps that arent in my dock, because i dont like the entire bottom screen being used for apps, especially ones that arent as frequently used. This is *my* favourite way of going about things, and if 9 pages and counting on the subject isnt enough to show you that there are many other people who agree, then please stop posting comments.

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 12:11 PM
I have a folder with several subfolder and several files in each sub folder to access needed documents on a regular basis at work. Apart from that, i use the same method for shortcuts to apps that arent in my dock, because i dont like the entire bottom screen being used for apps, especially ones that arent as frequently used. This is *my* favourite way of going about things, and if 9 pages and counting on the subject isnt enough to show you that there are many other people who agree, then please stop posting comments.


Sorry don't know what to tell you..Send Apple some email.;)

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 12:13 PM
I don't know what you all are whining about...

My stacks are attached.

The first is my download folder. It's always in the same place, so I know where it is and what's there.

The second is my school folder.

Edit: The point is, if you keep your stack icons in the same place, there shouldn't be a problem with knowing which is which.

Now try to remember which is which when you have 10 stacks.

Thanks for playing though. ;)

mountainbiker80
Nov 15, 2007, 12:15 PM
Rt. click the stack, bro, and then go to "Sort by" and chose "Date Modified", "Date Added", or "Date Modified", then, instead of "Name". ;)

Ok, I just got thinking...does 10.5.0 not have that option? I'm on a test-station of 10.5.1, so I can't check.

I must say, I've downloaded and utilized the Stacks Drawers Modification, and it really makes a big difference aesthetically. Now I know which stack is which without having to hover over each one.

It's such a simple solution, but it works. Now I have to see if I won't mind the new sorting option that must be used: 'Sort by Date Modified'. That may prove to be annoying in a large stack that would be better organized alphabetically.
We'll see though......

Now if only I can change the bright blue lights below each open application on the Dock to a different colour that is easier to see.....

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 12:15 PM
Now try to remember which is which when you have 10 stacks.

Thanks for playing though. ;)

You do realize each stack has a label right?

Just mouse-over the stack and it shows the label.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 12:18 PM
You do realize each stack has a label right?

Just mouse-over the stack and it shows the label.

These labels may/do change anytime a new file is added. The priority on the label will also depend on which way the files in a stack are organized (date, kind, name).

Miserable experience.

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 12:20 PM
These labels may/do change anytime a new file is added. The priority on the label will also depend on which way the files in a stack are organized (date, kind, name).

Miserable experience.

The label doesn't change if you have a folder as a stack.The label shows the name of the folder no matter whats inside the folder.

ungraphic
Nov 15, 2007, 12:23 PM
The label doesn't change if you have a folder as a stack.The label shows the name of the folder no matter whats inside the folder.

Uh....ok.

esquared
Nov 15, 2007, 12:35 PM
10.5.1 is in SW Update, enjoy.

madmaxmedia
Nov 15, 2007, 12:36 PM
I was thinking the same thing as I was typing this particular item.

One person's bug is another's feature, eh? :D

Well, technically it's not a 'bug', since Apple intentionally created that behavior for re-naming files. ;) Whether it was a good decision or not is another matter.

I much prefer this new default behavior, and I think most other people do. But it's customizable which is the most important thing.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 12:38 PM
You do realize each stack has a label right?

Just mouse-over the stack and it shows the label.

I shouldn't have to mouse over something to know what it is. It should be obvious just by looking at it. That is why there are different icons for iTunes, Safari, Mail, iChat, etc.
Seems pretty inefficient to have to mouse over something to ID it.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 12:40 PM
Rt. click the stack, bro, and then go to "Sort by" and chose "Date Modified", "Date Added", or "Date Modified", then, instead of "Name". ;)

Ok, I just got thinking...does 10.5.0 not have that option? I'm on a test-station of 10.5.1, so I can't check.

Um, I know how to change the sorting options. Maybe you should reread my comment.

My point was that changing the sorting options makes that folder change it's organization. If you have 100 items in it, isn't it easier to browse for something if it is organized alphabetically as opposed by date modified?
As I said, the drawer mod is an excellent aesthetic upgrade, but functionally I'll have to wait and see if I can deal with the new way I have to organize them (meaning by Date Modified).

Warini
Nov 15, 2007, 12:44 PM
10.5.1 released just a few seconds ago

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 12:50 PM
10.5.1 is in SW Update, enjoy.

Hey all you Early Adopters/Updaters:

Enjoy! Let me know how it goes. I'll join you tonight/tomorrow.
:D

vassillios
Nov 15, 2007, 12:52 PM
What's included?
The following improvements for both PowerPC and Intel-based Macs are included in this update

AirPort
Allows password-protected accounts on AirPort Disks to show up on in the Finder's Shared Sidebar.
Resolves an issue with saved passwords for wireless networks.
Back to My Mac
Improves the reliability of Back to My Mac-enabled Macs appearing in the Finder's Shared Sidebar.
Improves compatibility with D-Link NAT gateways.

Disk utilities
Restores the functionality of the progress bar during permission repairs in Disk Utility.
Addresses an issue that could produce an alert when creating disk images using Disk Utility or Terminal.
Improves disk partitioning when multiple RAID sets are created on the same disk.

iCal
iCal alarms are now more reliably delivered via email.
Resolves an issue when inviting attendees via a CalDAV account.

Mail
Improves stability when resizing columns in the message viewer or switching between Stationery templates in email messages.
Addresses an issue in which attachments enclosed inside an HTML link may not be clickable in email messages.
Fixes an issue with email accounts added using the "Simple Setup" feature in which messages cannot be sent due to an SMTP connection failure.
Improves Smart Mailboxes compatibility with .Mac Sync, and addresses an issue with To Do's disappearing when using Smart Mailboxes.
Resolves an issue with syncing Mail accounts with .Mac in which multiple On My Mac folders appear in the Mailbox pane.

Networking
Addresses an issue in which Microsoft Windows shared folders may be read-only when connected via SMB.

Printing
Resolves an issue in which user-selected values on Paper Feed PDE are reset to default while saving a custom preset.

Security, Firewall
Addresses a code signing issue; third-party applications can now run when included in the Application Firewall or when whitelisted in Parental Controls.
In Security preferences' Firewall tab, the "Block All" option is now called "Allow Only essential services"
Includes recent Apple security updates.

System and Finder
Addresses a potential data loss issue when moving files across partitions in the Finder.
Resolves an issue with login after turning off FileVault for a specific user account.
Improves compatibility with Adobe Flash-based uploaders used by .Mac Web Gallery and certain other websites and applications.
Resolves a potential text drawing issue with certain Adobe Flash-based websites and applications.

Time Machine
Addresses formatting issues with certain drives used with Time Machine (specifically, single-partition MBR drives greater than 512 GB in size as well as NTFS drives of any size and partition scheme).
Resolves an issue in which files restored in Time Machine may be restored to the backup hierarchy rather than the folders to which they belong.

vassillios
Nov 15, 2007, 01:13 PM
hmmmmm....everybody must be installing....can't wait to get home...6 hrs from now :(

jragosta
Nov 15, 2007, 02:41 PM
Tell ya what..You tell me what repetitive task you are doing that makes you have to click through stacks several times to get to what you are doing a lot of and I'll give you a good workaround.

Please do this in a step by step fashion because that's what I'm used to seeing.

OK.

I have thousands of files on my Mac in hundreds of folders arranged by topic. Under Tiger, I could access any file on my system with a click and drag. Let's say the file I want is 4 layers deep. And let's say I put the top level folder in the dock in each case.

Tiger:
Click, drag, release

Leopard:
Click
Select folder
Release
Double click on next folder
Double click on next folder
Double click on file (launches app)
Go to Finder (I use 'Show Desktop' or you could do it the slow way)
Close the last folder window
Go back to the app you want and start working

Tell me how I can do that in Leopard in a time even close to what it was in Tiger. And keep in mind that I'm opening different files all the time and there's no way to know in advance which file or folder I'll need at any given time.

jragosta
Nov 15, 2007, 02:42 PM
Sorry don't know what to tell you..Send Apple some email.;)

But he described exactly what several people were describing before you shot off your mouth and said you could tell us how to do it in Leopard without wasting time.

If you had bothered reading the thread, you'd have know what we were complaining about before you made your false claim.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 05:34 PM
OK.

I have thousands of files on my Mac in hundreds of folders arranged by topic. Under Tiger, I could access any file on my system with a click and drag. Let's say the file I want is 4 layers deep. And let's say I put the top level folder in the dock in each case.

Tiger:
Click, drag, release

Leopard:
Click
Select folder
Release
Double click on next folder
Double click on next folder
Double click on file (launches app)
Go to Finder (I use 'Show Desktop' or you could do it the slow way)
Close the last folder window
Go back to the app you want and start working

Tell me how I can do that in Leopard in a time even close to what it was in Tiger. And keep in mind that I'm opening different files all the time and there's no way to know in advance which file or folder I'll need at any given time.

Spotlight? Or do you not know the names of the files you want to open?

/sorry, I don't mean to be a S-disturber....

Virgil-TB2
Nov 15, 2007, 07:18 PM
He's basically saying that an (empty) folder with an alphanumeric name like "0" will sort to the top and that if I replace it's icon with the icon from the downloads folder it will always look like a download folder in the dock.

I haven't done this kind of icon switching since OS-9 days, but it sort of works.

When I tried it, the custom icon doesn't show up though, only the default blue one so it's not going to do it for me. The plain blue folder also doesn't really work as an identifier of what it is even if the custom cover had come through.

An excellent suggestion though and probably useful for others.

Peace
Nov 15, 2007, 07:24 PM
Tell ya what..You tell me what repetitive task you are doing that makes you have to click through stacks several times to get to what you are doing a lot of and I'll give you a good workaround.

Please do this in a step by step fashion because that's what I'm used to seeing.

I have a folder with several subfolder and several files in each sub folder to access needed documents on a regular basis at work. Apart from that, i use the same method for shortcuts to apps that arent in my dock, because i dont like the entire bottom screen being used for apps, especially ones that arent as frequently used. This is *my* favourite way of going about things, and if 9 pages and counting on the subject isnt enough to show you that there are many other people who agree, then please stop posting comments.

Sorry don't know what to tell you..Send Apple some email.;)

The label doesn't change if you have a folder as a stack.The label shows the name of the folder no matter whats inside the folder.

But he described exactly what several people were describing before you shot off your mouth and said you could tell us how to do it in Leopard without wasting time.

If you had bothered reading the thread, you'd have know what we were complaining about before you made your false claim.


READ this and tell me he did what I asked.

And you too need to learn some manners.

jragosta
Nov 15, 2007, 07:59 PM
Spotlight? Or do you not know the names of the files you want to open?

/sorry, I don't mean to be a S-disturber....

Tiger:
Click and drag to open any file

Leopard / spotlight:
Click on Spotlight icon
Type in name of file you want
Select 'show all'
Scroll down to find appropriate file
Double click on file
Go back to finder
Close folder
Go back to application you're using

And that's assuming that you can remember the name of the file you want. With thousands of files, that's not always easy.

Surely
Nov 15, 2007, 11:02 PM
Tiger:
Click and drag to open any file

Leopard / spotlight:
Click on Spotlight icon
Type in name of file you want
Select 'show all'
Scroll down to find appropriate file
Double click on file
Go back to finder
Close folder
Go back to application you're using

And that's assuming that you can remember the name of the file you want. With thousands of files, that's not always easy.

Fair enough. I mostly agree with you. Especially if you don't know the filename. But you seem to be using more tedious steps than necessary in your step-by-step example:

ie:
1.click on spotlight icon can be replaced by 'command-space'
2.Type in name of file you want can be replaced by 'begin to type in name of file', since spotlight searches as you type
3.Select 'show all' - I've rarely had to do this- maybe a handful of times since Spotlight was introduced. The file I'm looking for tends to appear in the drop-down list under Spotlight.
4.Go back to Finder can be replaced by 'command-tab' to finder or why even bother closing the finder window (OCD? ;) )
5.Go back to application you're using- command-tab again
If you find the item you're looking for in the drop-down Spotlight list, you don't need to do steps 3, 4, or 5. You would just click on the file name in the drop-down list.

Don't forget- I do agree with you that Stacks seem to reduce efficiency. Devolution?

zen
Nov 16, 2007, 01:24 PM
New link back up at http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860

Personally, I love this! It's a fix, quite clever but still a band aid, but it's a start. Apple REALLY need to take a look at this - the idea of a transparent "tray" icon which sits over the top, while the content icons change as they normally do, is terrific. Here's my dock:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Stack.jpg

Problem solved for now!

Well, as of 10.5.1, this is now broken.

Despite the modification dates of the overlay icons being Friday, 12 November 2010, 03:00, it is superceded by any newly-created item you move in to the stack.

Which means if you have your download stack stacked, then as soon as you download a file, it pops to the forefront. I just grabbed the iMac firmware update:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Picture3-1.png

In fact, Stacks is no longer sorting by modification date, because the item at the front - the disk image I just downloaded - is actually not the most recent item in terms of modification date:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Picture4-1.png

Stacks is sorting by the most recent item placed in that folder.

Any idea what is going on, and how to get those overlay folders set permanently at the front?

overanalyzer
Nov 16, 2007, 04:54 PM
Well, as of 10.5.1, this is now broken.

In fact, Stacks is no longer sorting by modification date, because the item at the front - the disk image I just downloaded - is actually not the most recent item in terms of modification date:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/mcgechan/Picture4-1.png

Stacks is sorting by the most recent item placed in that folder.

Any idea what is going on, and how to get those overlay folders set permanently at the front?

Have you tried right-clicking on the stack and selecting "Sort By Date Modified"?

zen
Nov 17, 2007, 01:37 AM
Have you tried right-clicking on the stack and selecting "Sort By Date Modified"?

Good grief, I never saw that option. Thanks!

overanalyzer
Nov 17, 2007, 01:44 AM
Good grief, I never saw that option. Thanks!

You're welcome :D