Any Vegetarians/Vegans?

[Sirus The Virus]

Who on here is a vegan or vegetarian? And what are you eating for Thanksgiving? I'm a vegetarian headed towards vegan, I'm eating a vegan nut roast with dressing. How long and why are you a vegetarian?

[EricNau]

I haven't eaten Beef for several years (mostly for health reasons). ...Does that count for anything?

And, errrrrr, I'll be eating turkey for Thanksgiving. :D :o

...Actually, turkey is really my least favorite part of Thanksgiving dinner. Who needs meat when there's mashed potatoes, stuffing, cranberry sauce, bread, veggies, and pumpkin pie?


If anyone wants a quick, makeshift recipe for veggie gravy, I made some the other day...
1 cup water
1 tbsp. butter
2 tbsp. flour
2 vegetable bullion cubes
---Boil water, dissolve bullion cubes, add butter, and combine flour slowly until you have the right consistency. Then add spices as you see fit. (In all honesty, it was somewhat bland, but it's the best I could come up with at the time. Try it before you ruin your thanksgiving meal. :p )

[Cassie]

Been thinking about going veg for about a year now.

But chicken is sooooo good.:o

[Sirus The Virus]

Been thinking about going veg for about a year now.

But chicken is sooooo good.:o

It's the easiest thing to do once you do it. There's stuff you can get that tastes just like, if not better than chicken.

[adrianblaine]

I grew up as a vegetarian. I didn't have meat until I was probably around 14 or 15. I'm also starting to head back that direction...

For thanksgiving we used to make mashed potatoes and gravy, corn, pumpkin pie, green bean casserole, and stuffing made without the bird. I'm sure there were other things, but it was quite awhile ago.

[Cassie]

It's the easiest thing to do once you do it. There's stuff you can get that tastes just like, if not better than chicken.

I'd love to know where to get this stuff, as I've seen too many videos to not feel guilty about eating meat.

[Oryan]

I could never do the vegetarian thing. I just love cooking on my grill too much. :)

[adrianblaine]

I'd love to know where to get this stuff, as I've seen too many videos to not feel guilty about eating meat.

http://www.kelloggs.com/brand/worthington/

http://www.seeveggiesdifferently.com/

to name a couple. You have to be careful though. Some fake meat is almost just as bad for you as the real thing (high fat and sodium), the only advantage being you aren't taking the life of a poor helpless animal...

[atthecross]

haven't eaten anything with a face since 1995, no political or social reasons (if we were not supposed to eat animals, they wouldn't be made out of meat)

Will be eating all the side dishes on Thanksgiving Day

[Iscariot]

Vegan for 5 years. Maybe longer? I can't remember if I started in my 20s or not. My reasons are mostly biological after a careful study of our anatomy, but my other primary reasons are to reduce my environmental footprint and to promote organic and sustainable farming by voting with my dollar.

As a Canadian, Thanksgiving has already come and gone. This year I celebrated it twice, the first time back home with my family, where I made a chickpea casserole, potato and leek soup and a tomato spice cake with vanilla frosting. The second time my friend hosted a small party in his penthouse, and he and his sister took care of all the cooking. They made two excellent vegan dishes, a very nice butternut squash roast and this great tomato casserole.

Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving!

[canadagrad]

Hey. Ive been vegan for about a decade but Ive been lucky: there is a health food store where I used to live that cooked up "tofuturkies" every thanksgiving that were amazing. All seasoned tofu in a little loaf pan with stuffing in the middle. Soo good. Back when I still ate some dairy I got the turkey gravy in those little packets made by ClubHouse and they're totally vegetarian.

I tried to cook one once, but failed rather miserably. Maybe Ill get creative and try again. I found a neat website http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/page/page/579094.htm) but Ive been too lazy to try to make anything this elaborate. Anyhow, there are links on the side, like the holiday and christmas ones, that have free recipes.

Looking at that web page now Im thinking two things: Im hungry, and maybe Ill try to make something afterall.

I just hate going to all the trouble only to have the recipe totally backfire!

Let me know if you try anything good :)

And now that I think about it, Ive not met any vegetarians that went veggie just because of health reasons.
I think you just need to do some research into how meat actually gets from the farm to the table to be turned vegetarian or vegan.

Oh, and back in the day when I listened to The Smiths a lot (ok, I still do) I couldnt get the song Meat is Murder out of my head!

And while Ive learned in the past 5 years or so not to make faces when out for dinner with meat eating friends I cant keep myself from making the odd comment when it comes to veal or fois gras. Ugh!

[Kamera RAWr]

I can see how people become vegetarians or vegans, but for me, meat just tastes too damn good. So many wonderful things you can do with beef and chicken. Not trying to get flamed here, just posting my opinion. I have a lot of respect for those who can commit to being vegetarians and vegans. Don't know if I'll ever be able to jump on that bandwagon though. :o

[Henri Gaudier]

Hello Sirus,

I've been vegetarian for nearly 30 years and latterly vegan for a few. I've seen US films refer to "going home for thanks giving" but what is it exactly? Is it some kind of harvest festival? As for the meal - am I right in assuming that you're new to this discipline? Our home is full of vegan/veggie cook books that we've slowly built up over the years and as such we've now got lots of favourites to choose from for Christmas etc. Stick with it. You'll soon find lots of your own favourites too that will make celebratory meals a breeze for you.

Sorry to hear about the bad news Canadagrad - Smith's music is murder! What you need is the one bedevilling me this morning - why I've got it I don't know - do you remember Star Trekkin? "It's life Jim but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it. It's life Jim but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it!" Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[Iscariot]

And now that I think about it, Ive not met any vegetarians that went veggie just because of health reasons.
I think you just need to do some research into how meat actually gets from the farm to the table to be turned vegetarian or vegan.

Oh, and back in the day when I listened to The Smiths a lot (ok, I still do) I couldnt get the song Meat is Murder out of my head!

And while Ive learned in the past 5 years or so not to make faces when out for dinner with meat eating friends I cant keep myself from making the odd comment when it comes to veal or fois gras. Ugh!

Canadagrad, where abouts in Canada do you live (if you still live there)? I know a few vegetarian organizations here and there, and I can hook you up with some of the haps, so to speak.

This goes for any vegetarians in the Toronto area, as well.

[it5five]

Been a vegetarian for a few years now.

Seeing as I work on Thanksgiving, I will be eating a peanut butter & jelly sandwich with some chips or something on my lunch break.

If I didn't work though, I'd just eat the side-dishes.

Green beans = delicious

[Iscariot]

Green beans = delicious

Green beans are one of my all-time favourite foods. Nothing special, just steamed, maybe with a little bit of margarine.

[it5five]

Now I'm going to have to pick some up and cook myself some potatoes and green beans with dinner after I get home from work.

[mad jew]

My girlfriend was vegan for a little while but I soon quashed her ideals, so she's just a regular vegetarian now.

[MattyB]

...does it matter? I like driving very fast, but I don't do it because I know I could hurt someone.

OK, admittedly I only slow down around schools ;-)

Vegan for eight years. I don't think it's unusual in the Mac community which seems to have a high proportion of geniuses, left-handers, ethical eaters and alternative sexualities.

I can't offer absolute proof of that, just the results of a straw poll.

All I can say is that I'm delighted to be associated with such a splendid array of positive misbehavors. I just made up misbehavors; good band name.

I'm in England so we don't celebrate Thanksgiving (or, obviously independence day, and yes, I am drinking tea as I write) but turkey is traditional at Christmas (goose is also popular and has the added benefit of being a shorthand term for the pinching of a person's bottom) so there is a similar problem.

Stunt turkeys are great, but you do need to sauté them. Fry them if you are less competent. As with real turkey and chicken, it's what you cook them in that makes the flavour.

I just eat as many side dishes as I can. I am particularly fond of roast potatoes.

I think I might put my decorations up...

BTW, thanks Arn for the moderated forum, I once made the mistake of saying I didn't do leather on the supposedly Mac-centric diyplanner.com and was insulted constantly for days. Very personal stuff. I'm giving the site owner a little time to resolve the matter, then I start having some fun!

m2b8.com

[bartelby]

I was vegetarian for 8 years (vegan for about a year of that). I switch back to being an omnivore due to health reasons.

[MattyB]

I was vegetarian for 8 years (vegan for about a year of that). I switch back to being an omnivore due to health reasons.

I've coached a few people in this matter before and have found that every case is a result of incorrect assumptions by healthcare professionals.

While there are things you have to take care of, such as B12 and Omega 3, there has never been a problem that stood-up to scrutiny. I would advise looking at a few fora...

For the record; I am not a doctor!

If you find you have been poorly advised it is important to raise the issue with the professional concerned, there have been some dreadful instances of poor advice causing chop-dodgers to abandon ethical beliefs.

Good luck

m2b8.com

[Iscariot]

For the record; I am not a doctor!


I have a Ph.D. in awesome, with a specialty in being a rite shaggy bastard.

[bartelby]

I've coached a few people in this matter before and have found that every case is a result of incorrect assumptions by healthcare professionals.

While there are things you have to take care of, such as B12 and Omega 3, there has never been a problem that stood-up to scrutiny. I would advise looking at a few fora...


So having a prefectly good vegetarian diet yet being 1.5 stone (21lbs) underweight and ill a lot of the time was a good thing?

When I was a veggie my girlfriend (at the time) was a nutritionist, so she kept a very close eye on what I ate.


The assumption that a veggie/vegan diet is great for everyone is also incorrect.

If this was not the case it seems strange that once I started eating meat and fish again I was a healthy weight and was rarely ill and felt a lot better in myself.

As for ethics. My health was more important.

[dcv]

Yep... veggie for 20 years; strict vegan for 5 of those years. What am I eating for Thanksgiving? Is that this Thursday? Dunno... maybe I'll have some veggie sausage, yum.

[Abstract]

Been thinking about going veg for about a year now.

But chicken is sooooo good.:o

So is beef, pork, fish, lamb, turkey, veal, duck, rabbit, deer, buffalo, kangaroo, snake, horse, and even pigeon.

But otherwise, I'd definitely consider it. *thumbs up*

[gekko513]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I often choose vegetarian meals over meat dishes when I have the choice. The cafeteria at university seems to be making more effort when it comes to the veggie meals, so they often look like the better tasting choice, and I'm rarely disappointed. I also try to reduce my dependancy on meat since the production makes for very inefficient use of farm land compared to vegetables.

[MattyB]

So having a prefectly good vegetarian diet yet being 1.5 stone (21lbs) underweight and ill a lot of the time was a good thing?

When I was a veggie my girlfriend (at the time) was a nutritionist, so she kept a very close eye on what I ate.

That doesn't sound good, but my advice stands. Did you consult someone with experience of vegan nutrition? Most professionals have not trained themselves in this specialism. Vegetarian diets are far from perfect, it usually means cheese.

http://www.veganhealth.org is the best resource I know of. It is a specialist nutritionist's site.

The assumption that a veggie/vegan diet is great for everyone is also incorrect.

No it isn't. It has been a very long time since a study has found a problem. On the contrary, vegans are repeatedly found to have excellent health. It has even been a while since the animal agriculture industry funded an opposing study.

If this was not the case it seems strange that once I started eating meat and fish again I was a healthy weight and was rarely ill and felt a lot better in myself.

Glad you are feeling better but are you sure it was merely re-adding meat? I did hear of a similar case that turned-out to be crone's disease. This is not a comment on your case, just the result of a previously similar case.

As for ethics. My health was more important.

That's an individual choice, but largely academic according to evidence. I hope I never have to make that choice.

I suggest we don't continue with this. I could present mountains of evidence but what often happens is that these exchanges degenerate when evidence is presented. I suggest we talk about Thanksgiving recipes.

My recommendation would be Isa Chandra Moskowitz' Veganomicon. That is absolutely the last word in vegan cooking. If you go to Erik Marcus' site http://www.vegan.com you will find a link.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I'm going to invent a holiday for the rest of us...

m2b8.com

[bc008]

well i have been a vegetarian since day one.
here is my timeline

age 1-6 just didnt like it taste wise
6-10 the tought of eating something that was warm and had life coarsing through it was weird to me

10-current realized that we life in a society where we dont need to rely on meat as our main food source.

for thanksgiving i eat everything but the turkey! :)

[bartelby]

No it isn't. It has been a very long time since a study has found a problem. On the contrary, vegans are repeatedly found to have excellent health. It has even been a while since the animal agriculture industry funded an opposing study.


Like I said, it doesn't suit everybody. I know a couple of other people who were advised to change from a vegan/veggie diet for health reasons.


That's an individual choice, but largely academic according to evidence. I hope I never have to make that choice.

I suggest we don't continue with this. I could present mountains of evidence but what often happens is that these exchanges degenerate when evidence is presented. I suggest we talk about Thanksgiving recipes.

My recommendation would be Isa Chandra Moskowitz' Veganomicon. That is absolutely the last word in vegan cooking. If you go to Erik Marcus' site http://www.vegan.com you will find a link.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I'm going to invent a holiday for the rest of us...

The other thing I don't like about vegetarians, and especially vegans, is that they tend to have a huge superiority complex. Vegans look down upon lacto-ovo-vegetarians who in turn look down upon pisco-vegetarians.

Eat what you want but don't preach about it. How would veggies like it if everytime they had a forkful of nutroast a meat eater tutted?


Where I work there are a few vegans and they are, without doubt, the most annoying, judgemental and generally whining pillocks I've come across.

[MattyB]

Like I said, it doesn't suit everybody. I know a couple of other people who were advised to change from a vegan/veggie diet for health reasons.

Agreed, but it is a preference. As I mentioned I have coached people who have had this advice and it has never been a VEGAN diet that caused the problem in my experience. Most doctors and nutritionists have no direct experience and rely on old information or societal prejudices, that's why I recommended the site I did.

The other thing I don't like about vegetarians, and especially vegans, is that they tend to have a huge superiority complex. Vegans look down upon lacto-ovo-vegetarians who in turn look down upon pisco-vegetarians.

As another point this is true, but where in my text is there evidence that I think that way?

Don't Mac users look down on Windows users?

Don't people tend to do this?

Eat what you want but don't preach about it. How would veggies like it if everytime they had a forkful of nutroast a meat eater tutted?

Preach? If you look at what I said I was helping you. You had said that you were clean but had to revert. I was intending to give you hope.

Where I work there are a few vegans and they are, without doubt, the most annoying, judgemental and generally whining pillocks I've come across.

That is a personal, anonymous attack. I wonder why people judge you.

m2b8.com

[bartelby]

Preach? If you look at what I said I was helping you. You had said that you were clean but had to revert. I was intending to give you hope.

That is a personal, anonymous attack. I wonder why people judge you.

m2b8.com

Did I ask for your "help"?
NO, especially as you're not qualified in any way to dole out advice on nutrition.
Was I unclean?
NO, and thanks for the insult.

I have plenty of hope and you're beginning to sound psuedo-religious now.

It's not just me they act like prats towards.


Life's to short to deny yourself pleasures like a nice very rare steak.

[aristobrat]

My recommendation would be Isa Chandra Moskowitz' Veganomicon. That is absolutely the last word in vegan cooking.
Ah, cool -- I'll have to check that out.

I'm totally in love with her other book:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TFFjknAVL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Vegan-Vengeance-Delicious-Animal-Free-Recipes/dp/1569243581/ref=pd_sim_b_img_3)

[scotthayes]

So is beef, pork, fish, lamb, turkey, veal, duck, rabbit, deer, buffalo, kangaroo, snake, horse, and even pigeon.

But otherwise, I'd definitely consider it. *thumbs up*

hmmmmmmmm... Sounds like my fridge (apart from the snake)

Here's a thought. If I have somebody over for dinner who is a vegi, I always make sure I cook something vegi for them, even make sure that anything that has come in contact with the meat doesn't touch their food. When I go to a vegi's house for dinner all I get is vegi food...

[.Andy]

I'm a healthy vege of ~5 years. Before that I was waxed an waned for about 3 years doing a few months at a time before it all got too hard - my partner at the time was a omnivore so I had to cook two meals.

But the last five years has been fantastic. I don't miss meat at all and my diet and cooking has improved out of sight. I've found being vege has really enthused me to branch out using different vegetables, pulses, beans, and flavours etc that I otherwise wouldn't have. I also have branched out into baking my own breads which has been great. I give my food far more thought these days and am in the best shape of my life physically. Never looked back!

[MattyB]

Did I ask for your "help"?
NO, especially as you're not qualified in any way to dole out advice on nutrition.
Was I unclean?
NO, and thanks for the insult.

I have plenty of hope and you're beginning to sound psuedo-religious now.

It's not just me they act like prats towards.


Life's to short to deny yourself pleasures like a nice very rare steak.

As I mentioned, I'm no qualified but I referred you to someone who is. The American Dietetic Association has published studies showing that the vegan diet is suitable for all stages of life and they license the person I referred you to is a member. From your use of the word 'pillock' and 'prat' I gather that you are, like me, UK resident. I haven't searched the UK governing body but the GB government is very encouraging in many places.

The 'clean' comment is just vegan humour, sorry if it offended you. To use the term 'cold turkey' wouldn't be appropriate so we mined the lexicon of drug rehabilitation for another term.

Hope is a universal concept. We all have some. I was trying to help, your post gave me the impression that you wanted to follow an ethical diet but felt you couldn't.

When you say 'act like prats' do you mean that they ask for animal-free meals in your presence? Or do they just annoy you because you can't argue with the logic?

I have referred you behaviour and use of insults to Arn.

m2b8.com

[bartelby]

I have referred you behaviour and use of insults to Arn.

m2b8.com

Where have I insulted members of MR?

Insults. Direct personal insult of another member, i.e., "You are an idiot." and all the variations. Why? Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to discuss or even dispute other's posts without insulting people. And the only purpose of a post like this is to incite other people. You may dispute somebody's opinion, but not attack/flame the person who stated it. There are a lot of other non-direct-personal insults that won't necessary get you banned instantly, but depending on the context/nature may lead to post editing, post deletion, warnings, or time-outs. They include telling people to shut up, or being extremely or repeatedly rude or sarcastic. Bottom line -- don't try to piss off others. Although we do not read Private Messages sent between forum members, the rules for appropriate and inappropriate content apply to them as well.

[edesignuk]

MattyB, bartelby, do the thread a favour and let this little disagreement die. I don't want to go through the thread deleting half of it's content. So if you could both just leave each other alone that would be just spiffy :D kthxbai ;)

[aristobrat]

Here's a thought. If I have somebody over for dinner who is a vegi, I always make sure I cook something vegi for them, even make sure that anything that has come in contact with the meat doesn't touch their food. When I go to a vegi's house for dinner all I get is vegi food...
I know that all analogies suck, but to be the same, you'd need to have excluded veggies entirely for your diet, life and kitchen for your act of "cooking something veggie for them" to mean the same thing as them cooking something with meat for you.

I have some veggie friends that are physically repulsed by the site of raw meat. I'm guessing veggies don't elicit the same reaction from you?

[adrianblaine]

I know where bartelby is coming from. It comes off as arrogant when the food you are eating/serving isn't "good enough" for them to eat. It is hard not to appear that way even if you aren't trying to act or feel that you are better than anyone else. Like other people said, life is short, eat what you want. Just remember, too much of a good thing CAN kill you...

[strieck]

To the OP:

My girlfriend has been vegetarian since she was 7 (almost 20 years now) and vegan for the last two years. She gets a Tofurky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofurky) every year for Thanksgiving and loves it. I think the "meat" of a Tofurky is disgusting, but the stuffing is very good.

[Queso]

I don't think it's unusual in the Mac community which seems to have a high proportion of geniuses, left-handers, ethical eaters and alternative sexualities.
All the proof you need right here, especially the genius part :D

[dops7107]

Over the last few months I have gradually turned vegetarian, but I don't think I can quite qualify myself as one just yet. For example, my housemate made a chicken sandwich which she wasn't going to eat because she was ill, and it was just going to be thrown away, so I ate it. But I don't buy meat in supermarkets or restaurants.

The dilemma will be at Christmas time, when I go home and we always have turkey. It is a free-range turkey that my parents have even visited at the local farm (I can't say for sure if they picked it out, but they may have done), so I am confident that it was a happy turkey. So in all likelihood I'll eat it. Currently I am finding it difficult to be absolutist about eating meat, but I am certainly finding it easier than I thought to live without it. Veganism however is another step I haven't yet considered. Maybe in time, but I like pizza too much...

[Sirus The Virus]

I could never do the vegetarian thing. I just love cooking on my grill too much. :)

I like my grill too. You can still use it, homemade grilled veggie burgers are the best!

[AmbitiousLemon]

I tried making my own vege burgers once and it wasn't pretty. what is your recipe?

[EricNau]

The dilemma will be at Christmas time, when I go home and we always have turkey. It is a free-range turkey that my parents have even visited at the local farm (I can't say for sure if they picked it out, but they may have done), so I am confident that it was a happy turkey. So in all likelihood I'll eat it.
Dead turkeys aren't usually happy, especially when they're being eaten.

[ucfgrad93]

I could never do the vegetarian thing. I just love cooking on my grill too much. :)

While you can grill vegetables, I agree with you completely.

[PowerFullMac]

Im a vegetarian, im in the UK so I dont celebrate thanks giving but I am having nut roast, bread sauce, gravy and mashed potatos for Christmas dinner :)

[AmbitiousLemon]

Im a vegetarian, im in the UK so I dont celebrate thanks giving but I am having nut roast, bread sauce, gravy and mashed potatos for Christmas dinner :)

Here in the states we refer to a nut roast as rocky mountain oysters and they're not vegetarian... oh wait are you thinking of a different kind of nut? ;)

[foidulus]

Well, the only meat Steve eats is fish, according to the Wikipedia page anyway

I tried that for a while, but eventually found it too hard to keep up at college. Recently I have decided that I only eat meat when going out(which includes lunch), so I'm half vegetarian(morningstar farms is awesome!), but maybe I should go back to living like Herr Jobs again:D

[Applespider]

Maybe in time, but I like pizza too much...

Not entirely sure why liking pizza stops you being veggie? Surely pizzas are one of the easiest things to make veggie so long as you get non-rennet cheese? :confused:

For the record, I'm not veggie. I enjoy meat too much to not want to eat it although I do have a few veggie meals each week since I also enjoy veg and pulses.

If I invite vegetarians around to eat (unless it's a special occasion like Christmas/Thanksgiving), I'll make entirely veggie food so that everyone eats the same. It's easier than cooking multiple dishes. Last year, when I had a friend's veggie partner to cater for, I think I bought a vegetarian kiev for him and then he ate the sides etc with us.

[zarusoba]

I have an ethically and environmentally driven diet. I use a lot of macrobiotic ideas. I minimise animal products and when I do buy them, they are organically produced. I don't know about the organic certification in other countries, but in Australia it guarantees that the the animal had as good a life as possible before it was humanely killed.

I also refrain from eating endangered or threatened species of fish.

Because Australia is suffering from drought, a lot of people are calling for an end to the production of water-intensive crops such as rice. My response is that animal production is much more water-intensive. A very inefficient means of feeding humans.

As a species, we do need to realise that it's not all about us. It's our anthropocentric view that is ruining the Earth's ecosystems. An Earth without birds and insects would collapse very quickly. An Earth without humans would recover very quickly.

I don't think the idea of a vegetarian world is realistic at this point in time, but governments have a responsibility to promote the reduction of meat consumption. This could be done by promoting organic animal farming. Less meat would be sold at a higher cost, resulting in a win-win-win-win situation. (For animals, the environment, farmers and consumers.)

In Australia, the current recommendation for red meat is 800 grams per week. Health-wise, that may be OK according to the studies that they've done. But what happens when everyone on the planet starts eating that amount of red meat per week? It's just not sustainable.

[mpw]

I've been a veggie for nearly a year, not for any real reason though, just sort of fell into it. I used to like getting a steak at restaurants, but now like nothing better than eating vegetarian out. i can recommend a great place in W12, here. (http://www.london-eating.co.uk/268.htm)

EDIT: Sorry I got the location slightly wrong, I've actually been enjoying eating out in the 'Bush.

[dops7107]

Not entirely sure why liking pizza stops you being veggie? Surely pizzas are one of the easiest things to make veggie so long as you get non-rennet cheese? :confused:

I was talking about veganism. No mozzarella allowed! :eek:

Dead turkeys aren't usually happy, especially when they're being eaten.

True, but a dead turkey is not an unhappy turkey, either. The manner of death and quality of life up to that point are what is important, and clearly it is not possible to eat a turkey without killing it. I can live with being responsible for the death of one turkey once a year.

[viccles]

I could never be vegetarian I love chicken/turkey too much! I'm not really a fan of red meat though

[Lord Blackadder]

I love meat, beef especially. And lamb...one of my housemates is from New Zealand, and makes some killer meat pies. Mmmmmm....:)

I'm not averse to eating vegetarian meals though...I came up with a decent chickpea/artichoke bake the other day, very filling! But I've always found vegetarian/vegan meat substitutes (fake burger patties/sausages/lunchmeats) fairly pointless - they are nothing like the originals in terms of taste or texture. But that's merely personal opinion.

[synth3tik]

the old man and myself like to do unusual thanksgiving diners. After all thanksgiving is a really stupid holiday. This year it will be Kung Po shrimp.

I have been a vegetarian for about 13 years now. Recently started eating sea creeps, but nothing beyond that. Main reasoning is that I do not like the taste. Also working on the grandparents farm durning harvest turned me away. It all started when I was dating this girl that was a vegetarian. She was also an absolutely fantastic cook and before I knew it 3 years had gone by that I was not consuming dead flesh.

[imac/cheese]

I have always wanted to become a vegetarian but I have never made the leap. I greatly enjoy turkey sandwiches and a good burger, but I have been considering trying to make this transition.

We do not cook any meat in our house, except the occasional can of soup or frozen pasta bag that contains meat.

[Lord Blackadder]

After all thanksgiving is a really stupid holiday.

It's the only one that hasn't yet been commercialized beyond all recognition.

[Sirus The Virus]

I tried making my own vege burgers once and it wasn't pretty. what is your recipe?

I can't remember, I have it somewhere! Sorry! I know it involved squash, ha!;)

[adrianblaine]

I tried making my own vege burgers once and it wasn't pretty. what is your recipe?

My family has a recipe, but it involves eggs...

Take one can of Worthington Vege-Burger (http://www.kelloggs.com/cgi-bin/brandpages/product.pl?product=282&company=41)

Mix with:
two handfuls of quick oats
4 eggs (This is an estimate, it has been awhile since I made it)
half an onion chopped finely
a pinch of salt
garlic powder (I like garlic, so I use a lot)
Worcestershire Sauce (Not truly vegetarian... I don't know if you can get it without anchovies in it. We used it even though we were vegetarian. You might be able to substitute it with another sauce like soy sauce)


Mix all together well and spoon balls of the mixture into a frying pan with oil (I use olive oil) and flatten them into patties. The trick is to leave them on just long enough for the egg to be able to hold the patty together when you turn it over, but not too long or you'll severely burn it. If flipped too soon it falls into a million little pieces. If you do it too late, you'll end up with a hard burned patty. What I've done that seems to work the best is to cook it at a lower temp for longer.

Experimentation is crucial. The first few times I tried making them, it turned out to be a disaster. You'll learn tricks along the way and which flavors you like. The only ingrediants necessary is the vege-burger, eggs, and quick oats. Everything else is just to add flavor.

[rdowns]

I received this in an email newsletter this morning. Should make the heads of the vegans/vegetarians explode. :p

What are you having for Thanksgiving Dinner this Thursday?

This past Saturday, I held an early Thanksgiving Dinner for a few friends.

I wanted to do something fun and interesting, so this year I decided to fix a Turducken for dinner.

"What's the heck is a Turducken?" you say?

Well put it this way, your vegetarian, animal-rights friends are not gonna like it.

A Turducken is a turkey, stuffed with a duck, that's been stuffed with a chicken!

[bartelby]

I received this in an email newsletter this morning. Should make the heads of the vegans/vegetarians explode. :p

Sounds awesome!!!

[Virgil-TB2]

Vegan for 5 years. Maybe longer? I can't remember if I started in my 20s or not. My reasons are mostly biological after a careful study of our anatomy, ... Just to present the other side of the equation ...

While being a Vegetarian of any stripe makes you somewhat healthier than the general population, being a Vegan Vegetarian is something else again.

It is a very difficult diet to maintain health on without constant vigilance and most Vegans become vegans for moral/ethical reasons, not for health reasons. Large numbers of Vegans are sickly, unhealthy people mostly because it takes constant vigilance and knowledge to maintain your health under a Vegan regime and the average person does not have the dicipline. Like many other "extreme" diets, it is certainly not something to be entered into lightly.

Arguably, the "natural" diet of humans is the same as all other primates, which is of course what we are. It's comprised of large amounts of raw vegetable matter, nuts, berries etc. but also small amounts of low-grade animal protein like bugs, birds and small animals of various kinds. This is "natural" and don't let anyone tell you that it's not because they simply don't know what they are talking about.

There is not much sense in the ethical arguments for vegetarianism in general either (not eating something "with a face"), as all vegetables contain small amounts of animal proteins and by-products (bugs, feces, etc.) and it is impossible to live at all, without simultaneously killing thousands of our fellow earth creatures every single day. Looked at this way, the argument for not eating animals is really just a matter of scale. In other words, we don't eat "big" animals or "smart" animals or "thinking" animals, but we all eat animals or cause other animals to be destroyed by virtue of our own animalistic requirements for food and shelter. There is no escape from this situation short of becoming robots.

- Do you feel better not eating the one big cow but killing millions of mites, ants, microbes, diatoms etc. each day? Why would you?

- What's better? Drinking the cows milk (which has trace amounts of puss and blood in it), or eating raw vegetables (which have trace amounts of bugs and feces)?

[aristobrat]

Large numbers of Vegans are sickly, unhealthy people
Huh? Is this your opinion, or are your citing a fact and not presenting its source? :eek:

it takes constant vigilance and knowledge to maintain your health under a Vegan regime and the average person does not have the dicipline.
My experience with the vegan "regime" was that many of the staples of my diet (tofu, soymilk, seitan) were fortified with vitamins and other nutrients, requiring very little "discipline" on my part to maintain my health. :confused:

[it5five]

The other thing I don't like about vegetarians, and especially vegans, is that they tend to have a huge superiority complex. Vegans look down upon lacto-ovo-vegetarians who in turn look down upon pisco-vegetarians.



Don't lump us all together. I don't care what the people around me eat.

The topic of my diet doesn't come up unless I am directly asked or offered a meat dish.

[Cassie]

So is beef, pork, fish, lamb, turkey, veal, duck, rabbit, deer, buffalo, kangaroo, snake, horse, and even pigeon.

But otherwise, I'd definitely consider it. *thumbs up*

I can deal without everything except chicken. My favorite fast food restaurant is Chick-fil-a. Mmmmm I'm drooling now.

[Abstract]

....but now like nothing better than eating vegetarian out.
...(snip)...

EDIT: Sorry I got the location slightly wrong, I've actually been enjoying eating out in the 'Bush.


Nothing to really contribute. I just wanted to say that I took everything that mpw said in his post as some sort of sexual remark.

[bartelby]

Don't lump us all together. I don't care what the people around me eat.

The topic of my diet doesn't come up unless I am directly asked or offered a meat dish.

Hence the "tend to" bit.
In my experience the non militant vegan is very much the minority. Most of the time they use information from PETA, ALF and other such organisations to prove points. Yet when I use information from the British Meat Education Service I get accused of using biased sources! :rolleyes:



Nothing to really contribute. I just wanted to say that I took everything that mpw said in his post as some sort of sexual remark.

No, you don't say!
</sarcasm>

[samuraikiss]

I was a happy vegetarian in a family of disgruntled omnivores... and then I came to college. Our college cafeteria (the only one) offers only three vegetarian/vegan dishes per day, and every single one looks like pig slop! I would have starved, so I had to start eating meat. I cannot wait to graduate and go vegetarian again!

[.Andy]

Hence the "tend to" bit.
In my experience the non militant vegan is very much the minority. Most of the time they use information from PETA, ALF and other such organisations to prove points. Yet when I use information from the British Meat Education Service I get accused of using biased sources! :rolleyes:
That's a wonderful anecdote.

[Schnebar]

I have been a vegetarian for like 13 years and I am 18 now.

I became one because for some reason every time I try to eat meat I throw up. I think it is the texture of the gooeyness.

I can eat pepperoni and really crispy bacon because it is not the same texture.

I guess it is good for me not eating much meat even-though I am really skinny. I will probably grow out of it in a few years and might start eating a little more meat but I will never eat like horse or veil.

Just stick to pigs, cows and chickens.

[aureiden]

I have been a vegetarian for like 13 years and I am 18 now.

I became one because for some reason every time I try to eat meat I throw up. I think it is the texture of the gooeyness.

I can eat pepperoni and really crispy bacon because it is not the same texture.

I guess it is good for me not eating much meat even-though I am really skinny. I will probably grow out of it in a few years and might start eating a little more meat but I will never eat like horse or veil.

Just stick to pigs, cows and chickens.


haha, it's so funny how you say "pigs, cows and chickens" as opposed to "pork, beef and chicken," especially because you're vegetarian.... :p

by the way, i'm not and could never be a vegetarian or vegan.

[sorryiwasdreami]

It's amusing that every time a vegetarian thread comes up it turns into a wild debate.

[bartelby]

It's amusing that every time a vegetarian thread comes up it turns into a wild debate.

Veggies/vegans vs. meat eaters is just the same as:

PC vs. Mac
Cats vs. Dogs
Dark vs. Light

[Iscariot]

Just to present the other side of the equation ...

While being a Vegetarian of any stripe makes you somewhat healthier than the general population, being a Vegan Vegetarian is something else again.

It is a very difficult diet to maintain health on without constant vigilance and most Vegans become vegans for moral/ethical reasons, not for health reasons. Large numbers of Vegans are sickly, unhealthy people mostly because it takes constant vigilance and knowledge to maintain your health under a Vegan regime and the average person does not have the dicipline. Like many other "extreme" diets, it is certainly not something to be entered into lightly.

Data, please?

Arguably, the "natural" diet of humans is the same as all other primates, which is of course what we are. It's comprised of large amounts of raw vegetable matter, nuts, berries etc. but also small amounts of low-grade animal protein like bugs, birds and small animals of various kinds. This is "natural" and don't let anyone tell you that it's not because they simply don't know what they are talking about.

yup.

There is not much sense in the ethical arguments for vegetarianism in general either (not eating something "with a face"), as all vegetables contain small amounts of animal proteins and by-products (bugs, feces, etc.) and it is impossible to live at all, without simultaneously killing thousands of our fellow earth creatures every single day. Looked at this way, the argument for not eating animals is really just a matter of scale. In other words, we don't eat "big" animals or "smart" animals or "thinking" animals, but we all eat animals or cause other animals to be destroyed by virtue of our own animalistic requirements for food and shelter. There is no escape from this situation short of becoming robots.

Incorrect. The "higher" on the food chain you eat, the more resources it takes to produce what you consume. You may not be able to eliminate killing to survive, but you are able to reduce and minimize your impact. While "guiltless" is impossible to achieve, eating vegetarian or vegan reduces your environmental impact, and the volume of resources necessary to ensure your survival. You directly reduce the "unethical" damage you cause, and you indirectly increase the survival of organisms lower on the food chain by increases the resources available to them.

- Do you feel better not eating the one big cow but killing millions of mites, ants, microbes, diatoms etc. each day? Why would you?

I feel better knowing that I have minimized the amount of destruction I cause to survive as reasonably as I can (although it's not an ethical question for me anyways).

- What's better? Drinking the cows milk (which has trace amounts of puss and blood in it), or eating raw vegetables (which have trace amounts of bugs and feces)?

What's better, drinking the baby formula for an animal that grows up to be hundreds of pounds, or eating a food item that you yourself have described as part of our "natural" diet? Is this is a trick question?

[Iscariot]

Hence the "tend to" bit.
In my experience the non militant vegan is very much the minority. Most of the time they use information from PETA, ALF and other such organisations to prove points. Yet when I use information from the British Meat Education Service I get accused of using biased sources! :rolleyes:


I've encountered way more militant meat-eaters than I ever have militant vegetarians. Actually, I've encountered more militant meat-eaters than I've ever encountered vegetarians, period.

I think this is one of those cases where the vocal minority is so ridiculously vocal that they give the rest of us a bad name. I can't stand PETA, and I know a couple very outspoken and "activist" vegans who's actions and attitudes really bug me. I myself have never been to an animal rights protest or harranged anyone about their choices, and I'm willing to bet the majority of vegetarians are the same.

But there is something that I think is overlooked here. When you're a vegetarian or vegan, you are constantly under fire to justify your lifestyle, sometimes even by perfect strangers. You have to explain yourself at family and social gatherings, people are constantly asking (sometimes intentionally insulting) questions about your food, and any indication that you're sick, or unhealthy in any way -- or any other vegetarian that they've ever heard of is -- is used as justification to berate you. And if you respond in a way that is flippant or annoyed, you get lumped in with the "militants".

Kind of a no-win situation. I want to carry around a glove and slap offenders with it, exclaiming in a Monty Python-esque voice "I challenge you to a duel!" that involves which one of us can bounce more quarters off our washboard abs.

[bartelby]

I think this is one of those cases where the vocal minority is so ridiculously vocal that they give the rest of us a bad name.

You're totally correct.

[Queso]

Veggies/vegans vs. Normal people meat eaters is just the same as:

PC vs. Mac
Cats vs. Dogs
Dark vs. Light
Personally I've always wondered what troll tastes like :p

But there is something that I think is overlooked here. When you're a vegetarian or vegan, you are constantly under fire to justify your lifestyle, sometimes even by perfect strangers. You have to explain yourself at family and social gatherings, people are constantly asking (sometimes intentionally insulting) questions about your food, and any indication that you're sick, or unhealthy in any way -- or any other vegetarian that they've ever heard of is -- is used as justification to berate you. And if you respond in a way that is flippant or annoyed, you get lumped in with the "militants".
Yep. It's exactly the same as being labelled a "Mac zealot" when you disagree with someone's stupid remark about how Macs have no software etc. You can't tell someone they're wrong, so it's best to just change the subject.

[bartelby]

Personally I've always wondered what troll tastes like :p

They're quite tasteless first thing in the morning. Better after having coffee librally applied.
:)

[iBlue]

Personally I've always wondered what troll tastes like :p...
Probably bitter with much need for chewing and still hard to swallow.

[Mord]

So having a prefectly good vegetarian diet yet being 1.5 stone (21lbs) underweight and ill a lot of the time was a good thing?

^ my current state.

Being vegetarian was all well and good while I was lazy but these days I'm far more active and it's difficult to maintain weight.

The trouble is that eating meat would be a bit daunting for me, last time I did (by accident) I threw up violently and the smell has never appealed, quite the opposite in fact.

I'm not really sure what to do :(

I never have been vegetarian due to ethics, I just don't like meat, never took to it as a child and I doubt I ever will.

[dcv]

When you're a vegetarian or vegan, you are constantly under fire to justify your lifestyle, sometimes even by perfect strangers. You have to explain yourself at family and social gatherings, people are constantly asking (sometimes intentionally insulting) questions about your food, and any indication that you're sick, or unhealthy in any way -- or any other vegetarian that they've ever heard of is -- is used as justification to berate you. And if you respond in a way that is flippant or annoyed, you get lumped in with the "militants".

http://enquata.com/mr-images/applause.gif

Ohhhhh I hear ya!

[Queso]

You shouldn't worry too much yet Mord. Your body just needs a bit of time to adjust to your sudden change of pace. Saying that though, maybe after a good long night of raving you need to go pig out on some cake or something :)

[Mord]

You shouldn't worry too much yet Mord. Your body just needs a bit of time to adjust to your sudden change of pace. Saying that though, maybe after a good long night of raving you need to go pig out on some cake or something :)

It's been a fair while now, my pace changed about 6 months ago. I lose between 3.5-7 pounds in a night out and it takes me a week of heavy eating to regain it.

also another motivation is the fact that my multiple girlfriends are all not vegetarian in a monogamous relationship this would not be so bad but with four of them it's a PITA

[Iscariot]

Heh. Thanks, everybody :)

^ my current state.

Being vegetarian was all well and good while I was lazy but these days I'm far more active and it's difficult to maintain weight.

The trouble is that eating meat would be a bit daunting for me, last time I did (by accident) I threw up violently and the smell has never appealed, quite the opposite in fact.

I'm not really sure what to do :(

I never have been vegetarian due to ethics, I just don't like meat, never took to it as a child and I doubt I ever will.

I'm not a nutritionist or anything of the sort, but as a very active and athletic vegan, I can sympathize. A lot of vegetarian food isn't very dense in calories -- most fruits, vegetables and even tofu and tofu products are made up largely of water -- so you have to eat a greater volume of food or make a conscious effort to eat really dense foods.

For example, I eat about 2 cups of nuts or dense legumes like peanuts, lentils or chickpeas every day.

Some dense vegetarian foods are:


Nuts and seeds
Chickpeas, lentils
Some beans
Raisins and other dehydrated foods
Granola
Avacodo
Pasta
Cereal
Yams
Peanut butter


You can also make smoothies with protein powders and peanut butter for a boost of calories, and I make my own protein bars that have 500 calories per bar.

It's been a fair while now, my pace changed about 6 months ago. I lose between 3.5-7 pounds in a night out and it takes me a week of heavy eating to regain it.

In order to lose 3.5 pounds of body weight, you'd have to burn 12 250 calories! That'd be the equivalent of bicycling at a racing pace for 15 hours straight.

Keep in mind that a scale has a rather large "retest" error, and that your body weight can fluctuate by several pounds throughout the day. If you are experiencing rapid and lasting weight loss of this calibre, you should see a doctor.

[iBlue]

what's funny about this is that everyone* is lumping everyone else into one category or another.

*see? :p

Meat eaters get lumped into the category of twunts who question the veggies/vegans.
Veggies/Vegans get lumped into the category of being militants.

There is middle ground. Here. I don't care what you eat and I hope you don't care what I eat. I don't think I'm alone here either.

kthxbai

[mpw]

...I just wanted to say that I took... ...mpw... ...s post as some sort of sex... ...l... ...ark.
Shhhh you'll excite bartelby...

...o, ...ou... ...o... ...ay!...
...oh too late.
...pig... ...cake...
Mmmmm pig cake, yum.

[Mord]

In order to lose 3.5 pounds of body weight, you'd have to burn 12 250 calories! That'd be the equivalent of bicycling at a racing pace for 15 hours straight.

Keep in mind that a scale has a rather large "retest" error, and that your body weight can fluctuate by several pounds throughout the day. If you are experiencing rapid and lasting weight loss of this calibre, you should see a doctor.

A reasonable proportion of that is water loss but the weight loss is still considerable, a night out entails 7 hours of *hard* dance to techno/psytrance that uses all my muscles, I jumpstyle (jumping back and forth and side to side is like running except with more impact and you dump your energy every time) and freehand glowstick with 4/5 sticks in each hand from 10PM-5AM only taking short breaks.

I am to put it modestly a dance floor monster, I never have seen anyone who goes for it like I do.

Seeing as I have in the past cycled for an entire day at a pretty decent pace without too much issue I don't see my weight loss as that out of the ordinary.

I'm also 6'3 and have been compared to Xena, I'm not exactly skeletal at 11 stone but I just don't have much body fat and I end up just crashing when I just run out of fuel.


I would eat more nuts/seeds but as a student I really can't afford it, I try to eat as heartily as I can but it's just hard to keep up with myself when I have a busy schedule. It also doesn't help that i have very little sense of hunger or thurst, I generally eat/drink because I feel ill or seem to be crashing not because I'm famished.

[miniConvert]

Does anyone else constantly get asked by others Can you eat...?

It's mostly the older generations that tend to do it in my experience, but I regularly get asked "Can you eat chicken?" "Can you eat cod?" etc etc.

Yes, of course I bloody can, I just don't want to :D

[bartelby]

Does anyone else constantly get asked by others Can you eat...?

It's mostly the older generations that tend to do it in my experience, but I regularly get asked "Can you eat chicken?" "Can you eat cod?" etc etc.

Yes, of course I bloody can, I just don't want to :D


When I was a non meat eater my nan would always insist I could eat bacon and have gravy...

[rdowns]

There is middle ground. Here. I don't care what you eat and I hope you don't care what I eat. I don't think I'm alone here either.

kthxbai

You're not. Although I am guilty of a troll like post in this thread, I don't get why people care what sort of diet others prefer. Eat and let eat.

[mpw]

...I would eat more nuts/seeds but as a student I really can't afford it...
Typical lazy stooooon't, you need to forage lass

[Queso]

You're not. Although I am guilty of a troll like post in this thread, I don't get why people care what sort of diet others prefer. Eat and let eat.
Same here. I believe everyone should be free to choose whatever they want to put in their mouths.

[bartelby]

Same here. I believe everyone should be free to choose whatever they want to put in their mouths.

You're asking for another mpw post you know!

[mpw]

You're not. Although I am guilty of a troll like post in this thread, I don't get why people care what sort of diet others prefer. Eat and let eat.
Yeah I hate it on safari when they have a fuss over my diet; just because I shot it doesn't mean I have to eat it.

[dcv]

Same here. I believe everyone should be free to choose whatever they want to put in their mouths.

You're asking for another mpw post you know!

Mmmmm, nuts!

[iBlue]

I believe everyone should be free to choose whatever they want to put in their mouths.
:D QFT

[Mord]

Typical lazy stooooon't, you need to forage lass

Used to in London but I've yet to find anywhere decent in Edinburgh, besides it's way past nutting season and I got through all the cob nuts I picked in the autumn over a month ago, I've only ever found one hazel nut tree and one almond tree in the wild which had ripe nuts on and that was a long time ago in bristol and I've yet to find a reasonable number of cob nut trees anywhere but along the grand union canal in london.

There are some gorgeous rose hips near where my girlfriends live in leeds which we're intending to pick to make wine out of and a reasonable amount of bramble but it's hardly protein filled foraging.

I'm sorry did you actually want to talk about foraging or were you just making chit chat?

[mpw]

...but I've yet to find anywhere decent in Edinburgh, besides it's way past nutting season...
Try Glasgow, I imagine they nut all year round if you asked nicely... or look at them funny.

...ripe nuts... ...bristol... ...s... ...numb... ...canal...

...my girlfriends live in leads... ...we're intending to make... ...out... ...hard...
Nar, just making chit chat.

[iBlue]

sorry, I just found this and thought it too perfect for this thread. :)

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/128340053711093750ihasakarut.jpg

[AmbitiousLemon]

Does anyone else constantly get asked by others Can you eat...?

It's mostly the older generations that tend to do it in my experience, but I regularly get asked "Can you eat chicken?" "Can you eat cod?" etc etc.

Yes, of course I bloody can, I just don't want to :D

Thats when you say: "I'm made of meat. Can you eat me?"

[Dagless]

I'd like to do it but bacon and chicken have me by my balls. I can and do live without beef, lamb, fish etc. It's just them first 2 :o

[bartelby]

Thats when you say: "I'm made of meat. Can you eat me?"

And the answer to that is:

"No, but only because it's illegal"

[Mord]

And the answer to that is:

"No, but only because it's illegal"

Funnily enough I don't think I'd have a problem with cannibalism if it came to it, human flesh does not have me recoil in the same way animal flesh does.

[bartelby]

Funnily enough I don't think I'd have a problem with cannibalism if it came to it, human flesh does not have me recoil in the same way animal flesh does.

We're all just bags of meat.

[AmbitiousLemon]

We're all just bags of meat.

And we communicate by flapping our meat around and blowing air past it.

[mpw]

We're all just bags of meat.

One of the things that helped me become a vegetarian is the fact I find it very hard to touch raw meat. I've no problem with uncooked bacon, sausages of anything cooked. Even a raw chicken breast is 'okay'. It's larger cuts of meat, especially on the bone and with skin.

Every time I touch a chicken or turkey that's dead and still has skin I think of the last time I saw my mother the night she died. Saying goodbye to her cold lifeless body.:(

Wouldn't have been so bad if she'd not been wearing the chicken suit I guess!
That's a joke, probably inappropriate though.
http://www.foureyesjokeshop.com/ProductImages/chicken_suit_costume.jpg

[mad jew]

I don't know about the organic certification in other countries, but in Australia it guarantees that the the animal had as good a life as possible before it was humanely killed.


I'm not so certain about that, mate. You may want to look into what is accounted for in the certification processes. :o

[elfin buddy]

I've been vegetarian for a little over two years, though I once accidentally ate ground beef when it was mixed with mashed potatoes and I was told it was a vegetarian dish... :rolleyes:

For special dinners, I particularly enjoy baked tofu with a blend of Asian sauces covered with assorted diced peppers and a drop of olive oil. Stuffed peppers are also pretty high on my list of delicious foods.

Living with three carnivorous engineers, I typically take a lot of flack about being vegetarian, so I've sort of developed a sense of humour about it. People only really bug me when they are blatantly and willfully being ignorant cretins, or especially if they somehow take offence to me declining to eat meat (people like that actually exist).

This is probably one of the funniest things I've ever encountered on the Internet: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/wab/hams/ I'm not sure why I find it so funny, but I almost fall out of my chair laughing every time I watch it :p

[iTeen]

i don't see how anyone could give up something as good as meat! crazy:rolleyes:

[CRAZYBUBBA]

One of the things that helped me become a vegetarian is the fact I find it very hard to touch raw meat. I've no problem with uncooked bacon, sausages of anything cooked. Even a raw chicken breast is 'okay'. It's larger cuts of meat, especially on the bone and with skin.



I actually love cleaning the fat off meat before cooking it for the family. I myself am vegetarian though. As good as some foods are I'm always reminded that i had to kill something to enjoy the meal, it's not a good feeling.

[Sirus The Virus]

Funnily enough I don't think I'd have a problem with cannibalism if it came to it, human flesh does not have me recoil in the same way animal flesh does.
Believe it or not....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu

They actually make that stuff. I could never eat that. :eek:

[ivan1234]

Iam in the transition process, my meals now consist a lot more if not only vegetables now.. I used to eat about 50% meat and 50% vegetables, now my diet is more like 25/75 :D

[Virgil-TB2]

Data, please?This was a mistake on my part in that I did not preface that statement with "In my experience." It is not just a random opinion though but one based on an informed history and a lot of experience. Although I gave it up on simple logical grounds, I have been a vegetarian for large periods of my life, have lived with many vegetarian and vegan vegetarian people and most of my friends and acquaintances today are also vegetarians of one kind or another. So this part is more of an "informed opinion" based on nearly fifty years of living and experiencing vegetarian lifestyles.

Incorrect. The "higher" on the food chain you eat, the more resources it takes to produce what you consume. You may not be able to eliminate killing to survive, but you are able to reduce and minimize your impact. While "guiltless" is impossible to achieve, eating vegetarian or vegan reduces your environmental impact, and the volume of resources necessary to ensure your survival. You directly reduce the "unethical" damage you cause, and you indirectly increase the survival of organisms lower on the food chain by increases the resources available to them. Here you are kind of switching the ground of the argument a bit in that I said the ethical argument of "not eating stuff with faces" was specious. You have presented an alternative ethical argument here (resources) that I hadn't thought of. So I would say my first argument is still right, but I agree with you that it is more ethical to use less resources.

But as you kind of say here:
I feel better knowing that I have minimized the amount of destruction I cause to survive as reasonably as I can (although it's not an ethical question for me anyways). This can be viewed as more of a logical argument than an ethical one.

What's better, drinking the baby formula for an animal that grows up to be hundreds of pounds, or eating a food item that you yourself have described as part of our "natural" diet? Is this is a trick question?Here I was trying to reply to that question that Vegetarians often throw in peoples faces about meat and dairy products. Perhaps this wasn't entirely fair, but then I find the references they make kind of insulting also.

People (vegetarians) that I know are prone to say stuff like "You know there's feces in that hamburger don't you?" or "You know there's pus and blood in your milk don't you?" as a way to shock and a way to say that the product is "gross." The implication is that munching on carrots and drinking juice is somehow "not gross" or much healthier for you as a result.

I was trying to make the point, (perhaps in the wrong way), that this is not true. i.e. - there are as many bugs and feces in vegetables and fruits as there is feces and pus in milk and meat. There is "junk" in everything and animal products in almost everything.

I just think the rational approach is to see ourselves as the omnivorous animals we are and not give people too much hassle over eating meats and dairy when the obvious facts are that this is part of the "natural" human diet and very good for you.

You don't go into this point, but part of my zeal with this issue comes from the fact that I *do* know quite a few people who have tried veganism and if you truly eschew all meat, dairy, fish, etc. you have to eat carefully to maintain health. Many people seem to like the ideal but lack the discipline to carry it off. Thus, a lot of really skinny, pale unhealthy people.

It's probably true that the root cause however is not just veganism itself, but really the faulty implementation of veganism by people who's desire to be healthy is not matched by their knowledge or skill at maintaining a diet.

[it5five]

Thats when you say: "I'm made of meat. Can you eat me?"

Off-topic, but I wanted to let you know that I love your avatar/Weeds.

I don't have Showtime, so I have to wait for the DVD's. I just finished season 2, and :eek::eek::eek:

Damn cliffhangers.

[Iscariot]

This was a mistake on my part in that I did not preface that statement with "In my experience." It is not just a random opinion though but one based on an informed history and a lot of experience. Although I gave it up on simple logical grounds, I have been a vegetarian for large periods of my life, have lived with many vegetarian and vegan vegetarian people and most of my friends and acquaintances today are also vegetarians of one kind or another. So this part is more of an "informed opinion" based on nearly fifty years of living and experiencing vegetarian lifestyles.

Then on a purely personal level, I'm inclined to disagree with you. Many of my vegan and vegetarians friends, like myself, are quite athletic. I'm at the gym three times a week, during the summer I'm very active outdoors with my friends playing games and sports, and I'm capable of running a half and likely full marathon. Of my friends, my veg*n friends are the most in-shape, healthy and active, even including my non-vegan gym-heavy friends.

But I think that's just a matter of experience and circumstance. I would say that while a vegan diet reduces your chances of a lot of excess-related illnesses, but can increase a lot of deficient-related illnesses. Any diet can be unhealthy if done improperly or if you don't include regular exercise.

Personally, I don't think a vegan diet is the healthiest. I think a pescetarian diet (vegetarian + fish) is the healthiest, as fish is an excellent and nutritious source of lean protein.

Here you are kind of switching the ground of the argument a bit in that I said the ethical argument of "not eating stuff with faces" was specious. You have presented an alternative ethical argument here (resources) that I hadn't thought of. So I would say my first argument is still right, but I agree with you that it is more ethical to use less resources.

But as you kind of say here:


This can be viewed as more of a logical argument than an ethical one.


That's because I don't really agree with the "not eating stuff with faces" argument. I presented an alternate ethical (and I will admit it's much more logically grounded) argument. This was my primary reason for going veg*n.

Here I was trying to reply to that question that Vegetarians often throw in peoples faces about meat and dairy products. Perhaps this wasn't entirely fair, but then I find the references they make kind of insulting also.

People (vegetarians) that I know are prone to say stuff like "You know there's feces in that hamburger don't you?" or "You know there's pus and blood in your milk don't you?" as a way to shock and a way to say that the product is "gross." The implication is that munching on carrots and drinking juice is somehow "not gross" or much healthier for you as a result.

I was trying to make the point, (perhaps in the wrong way), that this is not true. i.e. - there are as many bugs and feces in vegetables and fruits as there is feces and pus in milk and meat. There is "junk" in everything and animal products in almost everything.

I totally agree. I disagree strongly with a lot of the positions and attitudes some of my more "militant" friends employ. Out of the hundred plus veg*ns I know, I actually only know three or four who take the emotional hard-line approach. I myself refuse to go to protests and disagree with an in-your-face approach. I'm interested in information and education, which is why I volunteer at a quiet resource centre where interested parties can come for information, not propaganda.


I just think the rational approach is to see ourselves as the omnivorous animals we are and not give people too much hassle over eating meats and dairy when the obvious facts are that this is part of the "natural" human diet and very good for you.

I would have to disagree. I don't think we're truly omnivorous, I don't think the biological evidence is there to support that idea. I think our natural diet looks like the diet of many primates, and that we'd be considered more frugivorous than anything. The distinction isn't really that large, however, and the definition of frugivore states "primarily" as opposed to "exclusively". Naturally we'd eat meat, but very very tiny amounts. (I just don't think this is sustainable with our current lifestyles).


You don't go into this point, but part of my zeal with this issue comes from the fact that I *do* know quite a few people who have tried veganism and if you truly eschew all meat, dairy, fish, etc. you have to eat carefully to maintain health. Many people seem to like the ideal but lack the discipline to carry it off. Thus, a lot of really skinny, pale unhealthy people.

It's probably true that the root cause however is not just veganism itself, but really the faulty implementation of veganism by people who's desire to be healthy is not matched by their knowledge or skill at maintaining a diet.

I agree. (I think everyone should eat carefully though.)

I think we largely share the same opinions, but are coming from different positions.

[mediumofmeaning]

sorry i missed this thread. oh well. i've been vegan for 5 years, and with a little effort don't have too much trouble putting on lean muscle and maintaining a reasonable build and low body fat. I'll take a vegan creatine, a pre-workout supplement maybe. But usually just a vegan rice protein, which is pretty good. the key is just to eating consistently and sufficiently -- the past 2-4 months i've barely hit the gym, and don't eat enough just out of being lazy so that's what brings problems for me, i probably lost about 5-10 lbs (~170-175). im about to change that though.

I don't consider myself an athlete, but nevertheless am usually in pretty good shape and exercise either for pleasure or for work in the summer (beach patrol). happy to see a couple vegs round here.

there is a good vegan fitness community at veganbodybuilding.com.

[themadchemist]

Yes, absolutely. I have been all my life. Used to eat eggs, but now I'm a lacto-vegetarian. Yes to milk products, no to egg products. It's a religious (and by extension, ethical) thing for me.

[dukebound85]

Yes, absolutely. I have been all my life. Used to eat eggs, but now I'm a lacto-vegetarian. Yes to milk products, no to egg products. It's a religious (and by extension, ethical) thing for me.

im curious about the eggs if you dont mind my asking. most eggs are unfertilized and also probably the best source of proteins and amino acids you can get get from one source

[themadchemist]

im curious about the eggs if you dont mind my asking. most eggs are unfertilized and also probably the best source of proteins and amino acids you can get get from one source

Don't mind at all. Yeah, eggs are a good source of proteins and amino acids, but a balanced diet without eggs can still get all the AA's you need (actually, rice + beans, the common Indian combo, will get you everything you need).

So why I stopped...So my dad and I always get into these philosophical conversations. And one of his favorite topics is vegetarianism. And about 10 years ago, he had an oft-repeated argument about how awful it is to eat eggs, even if they are unfertilized. He cited that the chicken sits on this egg under the impression that it is giving birth to a child, and instead, it is just giving birth to food. Anyway, my dad is a very convincing person, and I started feeling more and more guilty.

The irony of this is that he eats eggs on occasion, and will definitely eat things with eggs in them. And in fact, the precipitating event at which I disavowed the eating of eggs happened when he was cooking omelets (which is rather rare in our house, because while the rest of my family will eat eggs, they don't eat them very often). I rejected my omelet and he got mad because he'd already made it!

Ever since, he has been trying to convince me to eat eggs again and bemoaning his tremendous power of influence.

All that said...I don't know enough of about the psychology of chickens to know if his argument holds up, but it seems reasonable enough to me, and what's more, the egg is still meat, it's still flesh, more or less, and so for a vegetarian, it seems like an odd thing to eat. My family has been vegetarian back into the shrouded annals of history, and traditionally eating eggs would be prohibited.

[Iscariot]

Don't mind at all. Yeah, eggs are a good source of proteins and amino acids, but a balanced diet without eggs can still get all the AA's you need (actually, rice + beans, the common Indian combo, will get you everything you need).

So why I stopped...So my dad and I always get into these philosophical conversations. And one of his favorite topics is vegetarianism. And about 10 years ago, he had an oft-repeated argument about how awful it is to eat eggs, even if they are unfertilized. He cited that the chicken sits on this egg under the impression that it is giving birth to a child, and instead, it is just giving birth to food. Anyway, my dad is a very convincing person, and I started feeling more and more guilty.

The irony of this is that he eats eggs on occasion, and will definitely eat things with eggs in them. And in fact, the precipitating event at which I disavowed the eating of eggs happened when he was cooking omelets (which is rather rare in our house, because while the rest of my family will eat eggs, they don't eat them very often). I rejected my omelet and he got mad because he'd already made it!

Ever since, he has been trying to convince me to eat eggs again and bemoaning his tremendous power of influence.

All that said...I don't know enough of about the psychology of chickens to know if his argument holds up, but it seems reasonable enough to me, and what's more, the egg is still meat, it's still flesh, more or less, and so for a vegetarian, it seems like an odd thing to eat. My family has been vegetarian back into the shrouded annals of history, and traditionally eating eggs would be prohibited.

From an animal rights perspective, there's a greater issue with eggs than that. Male chicks that result from the breeding of new laying hens don't have the metabolic rate or genetic traits 'necessary' to be raised as edible chickens. As a result, they are simply thrown out. The body count is pretty obscene, as approximately 50% of laying chicks are male.

[themadchemist]

From an animal rights perspective, there's a greater issue with eggs than that. Male chicks that result from the breeding of new laying hens don't have the metabolic rate or genetic traits 'necessary' to be raised as edible chickens. As a result, they are simply thrown out. The body count is pretty obscene, as approximately 50% of laying chicks are male.

OK, there you go. Now I have better justification. Thanks! :)

[quixotic]

Yep, vegan. So is my wife and our dog (for the most part). I think the thing that most impresses non-vegans is how quickly I can read ingredient lists on packages; that and the fact I drink beer and make really good vegan cheeseburgers and milkshakes (who says you can't get fat and eat like crap on a vegan diet?)

[Iscariot]

... I think the thing that most impresses non-vegans is how quickly I can read ingredient lists on packages...

True say. It's almost like "modified milk ingredients" is highlighted in my brain.

[mediumofmeaning]

I think the thing that most impresses non-vegans is how quickly I can read ingredient lists on packages; that and the fact I drink beer and make really good vegan cheeseburgers and milkshakes (who says you can't get fat and eat like crap on a vegan diet?)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I can spot a vegan label from 100 yards out. I'm not extremely strict (as in, I eat bread that might have milk in it, veggie burgers that aren't vegan, dont hassle waiters to check what looks like it's obviously vegan), but after a few years, I think you just gain an intuitive sense of what's vegan and what's not, as well as a massive database in your head.

and thats true, you can definitely eat like shhhhhhht on a vegan diet. back at home the majority of my friends are veg or vegan and only a few actually have a decent diet. youth and its virtues.

no beer here though, i've abstained from drugs and alcohol for about 5 years. i don't even know why anymore, but i do. maybe so i can save that oxy money and put it towards technology

[Melrose]

I was raised vegetarian until, for health reasons, my parents began eating Chicken and beef, et al, a few years back - I'm 25 now - and I started out (first time ever having meat) with a BLT. I was sold.

The biggest thing I'm concerned with is *how the stuff was raised:* In good conscience I can't support those farms that treat their animals so stinkin' awful.

I'm not what you would consider a meat-eater, though. And when I do eat meat I'm generally very very picky about it. I still consider myself mostly vegetarian, if that's possible.

Grilled stuff is soooo good...

[Hawkeye411]

Gotta have my meat. But I LOVE veggies.

[protozoa]

< I have been a vegetarian since 1997.

I started out as mostly just a picky eater. Seafood always made me ill. Crisp bacon and lean beef were pretty much the only meats I had eaten in years. So, the jump to full vegetarianism wasn't a big one. At the time, it didn't have much to do with a sense of humanitarianism; but over time I have added that to my reasoning.

[martychang]

Not to troll, but reading this thread made me realize that I might be the only person I know who ONLY(well, 99%) eats meat. I've always been a picky eater, I basically dislike all vegetables, I'm allergic to every fruit I've ever tried, and mozarella is the only cheese that doesn't make me sick on contact. I eat a fair amount of bread, but usually with some kind of meat. Cereal is I think the only meatless thing I eat...

Without meat I'd literally be eating cereal and loaves of bread. Not even cereal though, need milk for that! :eek:

[juanm]

Not to troll, but reading this thread made me realize that I might be the only person I know who ONLY(well, 99%) eats meat. I've always been a picky eater, I basically dislike all vegetables, I'm allergic to every fruit I've ever tried, and mozarella is the only cheese that doesn't make me sick on contact. I eat a fair amount of bread, but usually with some kind of meat. Cereal is I think the only meatless thing I eat...

Without meat I'd literally be eating cereal and loaves of bread. Not even cereal though, need milk for that! :eek:

Beware... Or, if it's because of allergies and such, get supplements (vitamins, etc) because what you're doing is not healthy at all...

Me? I eat pretty much everything, except cabbage and cauliflower. I LOVE a good ratatouille, but I also eat a t least once a week a good huge kebab "solo carne". And as I still think I don't eat well enough, I take supplements (multivitamin and Omega 3, mostly)

[Son of Matrix]

Hi guys/girls,

I have been vegetarian for 10 years plus now. I can't be a vegan because can't live without cheese especially Italian spaghetti with cheese. :(

Happy to have this thread!

Thank you

[Chromako]

getting a balanced diet is a challenge...
been mostly veggy for three years... my general policy is philosophically based and excludes vertebrates being that I read in a science journal that emotion and pain had a start in the brain stem, meaning, vertebrates. Which is my reason. I don't really have an issue with those lacking a central nervous system... just my take on the subject, eh?

[quixotic]

Hi guys/girls,

I have been vegetarian for 10 years plus now. I can't be a vegan because can't live without cheese especially Italian spaghetti with cheese. :(

Happy to have this thread!

Thank you

Yeah, cheese and eggs where the hardest. I was addicted to cheese. I could eat a block of New York extra sharp cheddar in one sitting.

I also love to cook, and I spent forever perfecting my fettucini alfredo well before being vegan, same with various souffles. I've never been able to make a good substitute for either. Though now I'm really proud of my vegan "meat" and "cheese" manicotti which even the hard core meaties will devour.

That said... best vegan cheeses? Sheese (http://www.buteisland.com/) and tofutti singles. Sheese is hard to find, you can order it online (http://www.veganstore.com/218-------blue.html) though, or if you're lucky enough to live in Portland, OR you can go to FoodFight (http://www.foodfightgrocery.com) (an all vegan grocery store!) and pick it up.

[kainjow]

I've considered going vegetarian but never have. Meat is just too good to pass up when someone's grilling it.

I do eat veggie meals quite often. I've recently eaten veggie pizzas and subs, and frequently get veggie meals at restaurants. When I eat a big meaty meal I just feel too full and like I need to take a nap. Eating veggie feels so much healthier and energizing. Plus there's more room for dessert ;)

I also am trying to take in less dairy and eggs. Milk grosses me out when I think about it, and butter can be replaced with olive oil and often nothing at all. Sometimes I can eat eggs (usually need a lot of orange juice to go along with it) but other times I can't. I guess it depends on my mood.

Meats I couldn't live without every once in a while:

Hotdogs grilled on an open camp fire
Steak with a beer
Juicy hamburger with all the toppings
Pepperoni pizza from Donatos (http://www.donatos.com/)
Chicken quesadilla
Homemade kielbasa (family tradition)

[KingYaba]

I'm trying the whole "pescetarian" thing right now. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Iscariot]

That said... best vegan cheeses? Sheese (http://www.buteisland.com/) and tofutti singles. Sheese is hard to find, you can order it online (http://www.veganstore.com/218-------blue.html) though, or if you're lucky enough to live in Portland, OR you can go to FoodFight (http://www.foodfightgrocery.com) (an all vegan grocery store!) and pick it up.

Have you ever tried Vegan Gourmet? I like it better than Sheesh for cooking, and the "Mozarella" makes a mean grilled "cheese". Sheese works best on cold sammiches, though.

[quixotic]

It's nice to see so many non-vegetarians/vegans on this thread, I'm damn impressed.

Those of you who really want to go veggie, don't worry, you'll find other things to like, such as Tofurky kielbasas (taste great grilled) and slow-smoked slabs of marinated seitan. It's not the taste you're giving up.

Have you ever tried Vegan Gourmet? I like it better than Sheesh for cooking, and the "Mozarella" makes a mean grilled "cheese". Sheese works best on cold sammiches, though.

Last time I had it, it was straight from the fridge, and it had this sorta gritty texture to it (not sure that's the best way to describe it). I should have tried it hot, maybe I'll give it another shot, your the second person who swears by it. Plus it's easier to find, and I'm a sucker for grilled cheese :D

[Iscariot]

Last time I had it, it was straight from the fridge, and it had this sorta gritty texture to it (not sure that's the best way to describe it). I should have tried it hot, maybe I'll give it another shot, your the second person who swears by it. Plus it's easier to find, and I'm a sucker for grilled cheese :D

It gets gritty if it's not fresh anymore, and that happens pretty quickly once it's been opened. Slice off the gritty exterior if it has one.

[Son of Matrix]

Yeah, cheese and eggs where the hardest. I was addicted to cheese. I could eat a block of New York extra sharp cheddar in one sitting.

I also love to cook, and I spent forever perfecting my fettucini alfredo well before being vegan, same with various souffles. I've never been able to make a good substitute for either. Though now I'm really proud of my vegan "meat" and "cheese" manicotti which even the hard core meaties will devour.

That said... best vegan cheeses? Sheese (http://www.buteisland.com/) and tofutti singles. Sheese is hard to find, you can order it online (http://www.veganstore.com/218-------blue.html) though, or if you're lucky enough to live in Portland, OR you can go to FoodFight (http://www.foodfightgrocery.com) (an all vegan grocery store!) and pick it up.

Thanks for the tip! It's easier nowadays because I just got a vegetarian girlfriend... first time, I have a vegetarian girlfriend...makes going out really easy...hahaha...you guys should give a vegetarian partner a try... i used to have meat eating girlfriends..and the recent ex was 'culture-shocked' and making all sorts of funny comments about vegetarian... anyway, am glad that it's all over now...she even asked me whether she can hold meat barbeques party at the back of our garden if we get married because she really likes it...hahahha...man! no need to put up with that anymore...

Guys..would be interesting to hear your stories too..haha

[Iscariot]

Thanks for the tip! It's easier nowadays because I just got a vegetarian girlfriend... first time, I have a vegetarian girlfriend...makes going out really easy...hahaha...you guys should give a vegetarian partner a try... i used to have meat eating girlfriends..and the recent ex was 'culture-shocked' and making all sorts of funny comments about vegetarian... anyway, am glad that it's all over now...she even asked me whether she can hold meat barbeques party at the back of our garden if we get married because she really likes it...hahahha...man! no need to put up with that anymore...

Guys..would be interesting to hear your stories too..haha

There are vegetarian social groups all over the place, I suspect there's one in most major cities. There's a pretty active group in Toronto with sub-groups, including one for people in their 20s.

[tip]

Vegetarian for the past eight years. The only thing stopping me from being vegan is my love for cheese. I can't give it up. :)

[Mord]

I can't really see the appeal in making a big deal over it all, I just don't eat meat because I don't want to.

[NAG]

I stopped eating beef because I don't think the industry is sustainable. Thats about it for me.

[diamond.g]

My wife is Vegan, she has been one for almost a year now. Something that I am looking for for her is a recipe program for her Mac. She currently just has one long textedit document that has all the recipes she likes. Any idea's?

[JNB]

Vegetarian's so '70's, Vegan's so '90's. I won't eat anything that casts a shadow...

[LizKat]

My wife is Vegan, she has been one for almost a year now. Something that I am looking for for her is a recipe program for her Mac. She currently just has one long textedit document that has all the recipes she likes. Any idea's?

well hypercard would have been perfect :)

i just keep recipes in separate text files and they all have file names start with recipe - then i use spotlight to find what i'm looking for

[katie ta achoo]

I'm a vegetarian. :)

One of my favorite veg foods used to be seitan, but now I have a wheat allergy. I'm so sad panda.

[diamond.g]

well hypercard would have been perfect :)

i just keep recipes in separate text files and they all have file names start with recipe - then i use spotlight to find what i'm looking for

I got her MacGourmet. She really likes it, and is digging the Nutrition Plugin.

[Rawjulie]

100% Raw Vegan here
Best decision of my life!

www.TheGardenDiet.com

[Iscariot]

100% Raw Vegan here
Best decision of my life!

www.TheGardenDiet.com

Have you read the Thrive Diet?

[Rawjulie]

No, what's the theory behind that?

[Iscariot]

No, what's the theory behind that?

It's an almost 100% raw book by vegan ironman Brendan Brazier. It's an all natural diet aimed at total nutrition and exercise, a lot of it based on one-step digestion and an alkaline or neutral pH, with an emphasis on high-yield nutrients.

[Rawjulie]

Sounds too complicated for me, I don't like to watch what I eat THAT much. As long as it's raw and vegan, I'll usually go for it.. :D

[ZiggyPastorius]

This is the way I see it:

Iscariot mentioned this once in the thread, and this in my mind says it all: There are healthy vegans/vegetarians, and unhealthy vegans/vegetarians. There are healthy meat eaters, and unhealthy meat eaters. I don't think either diet is inherently better, though from what I've gathered from the studies done on human diets, it should consist of around 3-7% meat, and the rest non-meats. Basically, meats are good for you, and give you things you need (not that you can't get them without it, vegans, don't attack me), but in excess, forget it. If you live on 20 lbs. of deep-fried bacon a day, you're pretty much ****ed. That said, my diet mainly consists of cookies...:p but I am not a vegetarian or a vegan and probably won't be one. For one, I have never found substitute products that I like, whether it be soy milk, other soy products, tofu (which is not very good for you, by the way), fake meat, et cetera. Most of it comes down to your style of life. Iscariot says he is an athletic vegan. I'm not particularly athletic, but I try to make sure I get atleast 225 minutes (about 3.75-4 hours) of walking or running in a week. This is not an amazing amount, but it is better than nothing. Let's try to keep the attacking to a minimum (I think people calmed down a bit since the beginning of this thread), it's not meat-eating-or-not-eating alone that decides the health of a person; same as its not weight alone that decides the health of a person. I'm 135 pounds, by the way. =] Will it last? Probably not. But hopefully, if I can cut down on these damn cookies, I'll be fine. The cookies are what kill me, as my diet is not horrible otherwise. If anyone is curious, by the way, I like my steaks bloody enough to save twelve dying infants :p and I do love my steaks.

Peace

[Vegan TJ]

Im vegan i have only been vegan for alittle over a month now but i have been vegetarian for 3 1/2 years

[Schnebar]

< I have been a vegetarian since 1997.

I started out as mostly just a picky eater. Seafood always made me ill. Crisp bacon and lean beef were pretty much the only meats I had eaten in years. So, the jump to full vegetarianism wasn't a big one. At the time, it didn't have much to do with a sense of humanitarianism; but over time I have added that to my reasoning.

Wow that is almost exactly me. I think I replied to this thread a few months ago but whatever. Yeah for some reason I can not eat any soft meats. I stick them in my mouth and they can not go down my throat. I can only eat crispy bacon, pepperoni, thin salami and sometimes thin jerky.

[Yr Blues]

Just started as a raw vegan about a month or so ago. It's really hard 'cos cooked foods and meat are emotional attachments. I'll see how it goes.

[MattyB]

This thread turned-out pretty positive in the end.

As a long term vegan I have been both fit and unfit, I'm currently very fit but the key facts are that I have a provably tiny risk of any of the 20th century diseases, I can produce reams of evidence to people who question me, I use a fraction of the earth's resources compared to most and my conscience is clear.

If that sounds smug, well that's just a model you're applying. I don't EVER force my opinions on people, but if they ask I'll tell then. If they question or criticise me I ask them for evidence and a cogent argument. I have not heard a supportable argument for a long time, they all fall apart. At this point my interlocutor generally falls back on abuse, as evidenced in the above thread.

There is no trick to a vegan diet. It's easy. You just need to include variety.

You will not be ill.

You will be questioned by people defending their own behaviour.

It is worth it.

[MattyB]

Just as a positive point, I ate at Saf - the new raw vegan restaurant in Clerkenwell (that's London) http://www.safrestaurant.co.uk (http://www.safrestaurant.co.uk/) last night.

I have never tasted such exquisite food. If anything there is more flavour than you can deal with. The head Chef, Chad Sarno, is a bit of a legend. He does a seven course experience for around £35 per head, which is nothing for a restaurant of this quality, that will change what you think about food forever.

Extraordinary.

Its lunchtime and I'm still not hungry...

[Henri Gaudier]

This thread turned-out pretty positive in the end.

As a long term vegan I have been both fit and unfit, I'm currently very fit but the key facts are that I have a provably tiny risk of any of the 20th century diseases, I can produce reams of evidence to people who question me, I use a fraction of the earth's resources compared to most and my conscience is clear.

If that sounds smug, well that's just a model you're applying. I don't EVER force my opinions on people, but if they ask I'll tell then. If they question or criticise me I ask them for evidence and a cogent argument. I have not heard a supportable argument for a long time, they all fall apart. At this point my interlocutor generally falls back on abuse, as evidenced in the above thread.

There is no trick to a vegan diet. It's easy. You just need to include variety.

You will not be ill.

You will be questioned by people defending their own behaviour.

It is worth it.

Fabulous post .. measured and astute. I too contributed at first and then buggered off after the cavemen made me lose the will to read further.

[Sun Baked]

the value of a vegan diet will now be played out in Superior court once again (http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepagetopstory/stories/Phoenix_local_news_060308_dad-vegan-trial-starve.5a554b0d.html)

aka, that case from 2005 starts for the father ... the mom already got a 30 year sentence for keeping the kids on the vegan diet.

[MattyB]

the value of a vegan diet will now be played out in Superior court once again (http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepagetopstory/stories/Phoenix_local_news_060308_dad-vegan-trial-starve.5a554b0d.html)

aka, that case from 2005 starts for the father ... the mom already got a 30 year sentence for keeping the kids on the vegan diet.

This is not true. The offence was not anything to do with the vegan aspect of the diet, it was that they starved their children.

You should withdraw your comments immediately, they are offensive, inaccurate and misleading.

[Henri Gaudier]

To be fair to Sun Baked the pages I read had the headlines "Vegan Mother Sentenced" & "Dad's Vegan Starvation Case" & so veganism is certainly being stressed by the reporting medium as being in some way partly to blame. Rot I know but that's what's been peddled and I think that was what Sun Baked was drawing to our attention. (?)

[MattyB]

"the mom already got a 30 year sentence for keeping the kids on the vegan diet"

The post is clear and in their own words.

[Sun Baked]

This is not true. The offence was not anything to do with the vegan aspect of the diet, it was that they starved their children.

You should withdraw your comments immediately, they are offensive, inaccurate and misleading.

Actually they fed the kids, didn't intentionally withhold food, just a diet that was on the extreme side of the bell curve.

Happens... the kids are said in 2005 they never went hungry and were fed enough that they didn't feel the need to snack between the meals.

The parents just lacked the expertise to properly formulate a nutritional diet, and feared obesity which led to an extremely low calorie diet.

[eRondeau]

I ordered a veggie pizza from Pizza Hut once. It was pretty good. :D

[Mord]

The parents just lacked the expertise to properly formulate a nutritional diet, and feared obesity which led to an extremely low calorie diet.

I've lived long term on a 700 calorie diet due to having no money, I turned into a twig but I certainly wasn't starving.

[MattyB]

I ordered a veggie pizza from Pizza Hut once. It was pretty good. :D

Have you no ambition? My Mother has to go to PH with my Brother's kids, she feels like Morgan Spurlock when she leaves.

If you want a good pizza, ask an Italian. Pizza predates Chicago.

You'd be surprised how little you miss cheese on a proper pizza. Bread, tomato and herbs are all you need. The bread rises and forms big bubbles, the tomato isn't too sweet, fresh herbs.

Your palette changes when you drop dairy, it smells and tastes a little 'off' if you eat it accidentally. I can't even walk down the dairy isle in the supermarket...

[MattyB]

I can't even walk down the dairy isle in the supermarket...

Aisle, obviously. I don't want the trogs thinking that veganism makes you illiterate.

[Melrose]

I used to be vegetarian, then I grew up, ate a thick BLT and fell off the wagon.

It's only after starting to eat meat that my working out has started paying off a bit more...

[Henri Gaudier]

Are you saying vegetarianism is immature?

[Melrose]

Not at all - I heartily admire people who are able to make the commitment to it, as well as those that also take steps in their everyday life to minimize their impact on the environment. I'm not being sarcastic there either - it really is noble.

I take eating healthy and minimizing my 'carbon footprint' (I guess that's what it's called) seriously, and admire other people who do the same.

Mark Bittman gave a speech (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/263) at TED where he spoke about the 'industry' of the meat business and how great it's negative impact on the environment really is. If you get a few minutes to watch him talk, it was eye-opening.

I eat meat, but I don't eat it every day and sometimes a week or better goes by without me eating any at all..

[Henri Gaudier]

Not at all - I heartily admire people who are able to make the commitment to it, as well as those that also take steps in their everyday life to minimize their impact on the environment. I'm not being sarcastic there either - it really is noble.

I take eating healthy and minimizing my 'carbon footprint' (I guess that's what it's called) seriously, and admire other people who do the same.

Mark Bittman gave a speech (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/263) at TED where he spoke about the 'industry' of the meat business and how great it's negative impact on the environment really is. If you get a few minutes to watch him talk, it was eye-opening.

I eat meat, but I don't eat it every day and sometimes a week or better goes by without me eating any at all..

Good .. it was the "then I grew up" line that threw me.:)

[zarusoba]

If you're vegan, just make sure you take a B12 supplement.

http://macrobiotics.co.uk/articles/dilemma.htm

There is no way to get B12 from a vegan diet, unless the food is fortified. My solution is to eat small amounts of shellfish.

[Iscariot]

If you're vegan, just make sure you take a B12 supplement.

http://macrobiotics.co.uk/articles/dilemma.htm

There is no way to get B12 from a vegan diet. My solution is to eat small amounts of shellfish.

Nearly all soy products are fortified with B12.

[zarusoba]

:eek: 70% of the world's agricultural land is occupied by farm animals.

:eek: One third of the world's grain is eaten by farm animals.

:eek: Global meat consumption is set to double by 2050.

:eek: The only reason meat is affordable enough to eat in such large quantities that most animals are produced in inhumane factory farms.

:eek: It takes 15,000 litres of water to produce a kilo of beef. Drinkable water is a finite resource.

:eek: The principle cause of deforestation in the Amazon is land cleared for grazing or for the production of crops fed to farm animals.

:eek: 13% of Australia's greenhouse gas emissions come from agriculture, and most of these come from farm animals.

:eek: 90% of the big fish have been removed from our oceans. If consumption continues at this rate, seafood will be off the menu by 2050.

[zarusoba]

Nearly all soy products are fortified with B12.

Not in this country, mate!

Good point though, if that's the way it is where you are.

[bbbensen]

Like Threadless says - Meat is murder. Tasty tasty murder....




Meh, I can see why people become Veg, but meat is oh so good.


Macadamia nut encrusted chicken.... Its amazing. :cool:

[Henri Gaudier]

I just Googled "vegan b12" and the very first result is "Vegans and the Vitamin B12 Deficiency Myth" - http://www.pamrotella.com/health/b12.html

There's always a problem with whatever you do or don't do! Meat no meat coffee, chocolate, wine etc As a vegan I don't buy prepared food and so I don't ingest all the additives bulkers, colourants, preservatives, OGM (GM) stuff. A clear health advantage which is never included in the pros and cons of diet choice; removing yourself to a reasonably large extent from the food makers ongoing experimentation with humanity of every chemical, hormone blah that is added to food these days. ie toxic shock.

[iBlue]

...As a vegan I don't buy prepared food and so I don't ingest all the additives bulkers, colourants, preservatives, OGM (GM) stuff. A clear health advantage which is never included in the pros and cons of diet choice; removing yourself to a reasonably large extent from the food makers ongoing experimentation with humanity of every chemical, hormone blah that is added to food these days. ie toxic shock.
Whoa, is it difficult being a vegan in france? (all that meat and cheese and stuff!) it just occurred to me and I wondered.

[Henri Gaudier]

Hi .. yes it's very difficult. I'm basically seen in the same light as a crack smoking paedophile! I live in a rural agricultural community and so there are no restaurants at all I can go to. Moreover, there are virtually no immigrants and so no Indian restaurants either. (A great Indian in my local town would be a dream come true! One thing that I miss about not living in london) My favourite food group would have to be cheese and I buy it for my veggie girlfriend ... sometimes it just smells so wonderful that ... but I never have. The most difficult aspect for me is medicines. The French have virtually no regard for animals, to generalise, and so you find lots of gelatine and cochineal in things where say, in England where I've lived, other fruit gellificants are used and cochineal is a thing of the past because of accommodating an ever increasing number of vegetarians/vegans in the UK. It makes sense to have a product everyone can use but that is not a consideration here. Meat is tradition and a sign of good living/wealth and habit is hard to break.

[Iscariot]

Hi .. yes it's very difficult. I'm basically seen in the same light as a crack smoking paedophile! I live in a rural agricultural community and so there are no restaurants at all I can go to. Moreover, there are virtually no immigrants and so no Indian restaurants either. (A great Indian in my local town would be a dream come true! One thing that I miss about not living in london) My favourite food group would have to be cheese and I buy it for my veggie girlfriend ... sometimes it just smells so wonderful that ... but I never have. The most difficult aspect for me is medicines. The French have virtually no regard for animals, to generalise, and so you find lots of gelatine and cochineal in things where say, in England where I've lived, other fruit gellificants are used and cochineal is a thing of the past because of accommodating an ever increasing number of vegetarians/vegans in the UK. It makes sense to have a product everyone can use but that is not a consideration here. Meat is tradition and a sign of good living/wealth and habit is hard to break.

Man, that's unfortunate. Your tenacity has earned my respect.

There are so many vegetarian restaurants in Toronto I haven't even been to all of them.

[iBlue]

Hi .. yes it's very difficult. I'm basically seen in the same light as a crack smoking paedophile! I live in a rural agricultural community and so there are no restaurants at all I can go to. Moreover, there are virtually no immigrants and so no Indian restaurants either. (A great Indian in my local town would be a dream come true! One thing that I miss about not living in london) My favourite food group would have to be cheese and I buy it for my veggie girlfriend ... sometimes it just smells so wonderful that ... but I never have. The most difficult aspect for me is medicines. The French have virtually no regard for animals, to generalise, and so you find lots of gelatine and cochineal in things where say, in England where I've lived, other fruit gellificants are used and cochineal is a thing of the past because of accommodating an ever increasing number of vegetarians/vegans in the UK. It makes sense to have a product everyone can use but that is not a consideration here. Meat is tradition and a sign of good living/wealth and habit is hard to break.
Thanks for answering. That does sound frustrating. If you don't mind my asking, what made you want to become a vegan and how did you come to live in one of the most unfriendly places for it?
And the French are nothing if not stubborn so I can imagine the traditions reflect that plenty.

(sorry for the grilling, you got me curious)

[Melrose]

Good .. it was the "then I grew up" line that threw me.:)

Yea I was trying to put a comedic, light-hearted tone on it.


Guess it didn't work eh? :)

[Henri Gaudier]

Thanks for answering. That does sound frustrating. If you don't mind my asking, what made you want to become a vegan and how did you come to live in one of the most unfriendly places for it?
And the French are nothing if not stubborn so I can imagine the traditions reflect that plenty.

(sorry for the grilling, you got me curious)

I'm a big softy is the glib answer. When I was very young and I saw animals taken from the field to trucks to go to slaughter I felt it very deeply. I was revolted, disgusted. I hated their deaths and their imprisonment. The order of it. The industrialisation. Corralling, unthinking brutality. So I refused to eat meat at about age 10 ... got bullied by my parents but eventually I stood my ground 100% at age 13 and became vegetarian. Now I'm 42 .. an old cranky vegan. Living in a house with no neighbours who finds his cats more magical than people!:D

Hi Iscariot ... stayed in Toronto for a month once. (There were people in face masks because of SARS the whole time!) We've probably been to a few of the same places. It's all hazy now but there was a nice place near the gay district, close to the ice hockey place ..Blue Jays is it .. the big team there?

[MattyB]

The world is a better place with you in it.

:D

[Henri Gaudier]

Cheers Matty! Even with all our woes ... I'd rather be in it!:)

[Iscariot]

Hi Iscariot ... stayed in Toronto for a month once. (There were people in face masks because of SARS the whole time!) We've probably been to a few of the same places. It's all hazy now but there was a nice place near the gay district, close to the ice hockey place ..Blue Jays is it .. the big team there?

Ha! Blue Jays is baseball, mate. I lived in the village for two years, and now I live about a block and a half from Maple Leaf Gardens, if that's where you mean. If you mean the Skydome, it's a little bit more Southwest.

[paola105]

Vegan here. Glad I'm not the only one! :)

[souldawg]

Veggie here. Sad thing is, I've found my food costs rising immensley as compared to my meat eating friends. I thought it would be the other way around.

Secondly, I keep forgetting how badly NYC restaurants cater to veggies. Unless you like a mushroom risotto or grilled veggies you are SOL.

[The Doctor]

Veggie here. Sad thing is, I've found my food costs rising immensley as compared to my meat eating friends. I thought it would be the other way around.

Secondly, I keep forgetting how badly NYC restaurants cater to veggies. Unless you like a mushroom risotto or grilled veggies you are SOL.

i feel like nyc is the best place to be for a vegetarian... there are so many fantastic places to eat...

i am a vegetarian, who is like 99.99% vegan... i will eat a little bit of dairy if im like at my parents house or something, and its just easier... but i try to never have any dairy... i never have anything with dead animal products in it though... they like to sneak stuff into all sorts of cheeses and other things...

[paola105]

I just went from vegan to raw. It's been almost a week.
Feels good :cool:

[it5five]

I've been a vegetarian for about 2 and a half years now. I posted earlier in this thread, but it seems to be friendlier now. So I was wondering if any of you vegetarians or vegans new of some good cookbooks. Usually I come across the usual cheap bargain priced ones with a lot of unrealistic and bland recipes. Do any of you have any recommendations?

[souldawg]

i feel like nyc is the best place to be for a vegetarian... there are so many fantastic places to eat...

i am a vegetarian, who is like 99.99% vegan... i will eat a little bit of dairy if im like at my parents house or something, and its just easier... but i try to never have any dairy... i never have anything with dead animal products in it though... they like to sneak stuff into all sorts of cheeses and other things...

There are several restaurants in the East Village, but having done PR for restaurants of respectable caliber, lots of "veggie" types of dishes contain fish/chicken/beef stock when cooked.

You have to specifically request all ingredients to find things out. and not just from servers. It made me sad to realize that really there are such limited options. Never work in the food industry if you want to be a veggie.

[és:]

I'm considering either Vegetarianism or Pescetarianism. It's not much to do with caring about animals (although I find mass producing of animals repugnant) and more to do with not liking meat all that much.

It makes me feel a bit crap, as does bread (which I'm also considering giving up).

[.Andy]

I've been a vegetarian for about 2 and a half years now. I posted earlier in this thread, but it seems to be friendlier now. So I was wondering if any of you vegetarians or vegans new of some good cookbooks. Usually I come across the usual cheap bargain priced ones with a lot of unrealistic and bland recipes. Do any of you have any recommendations?
Without being overly specific I'd search out a beginners indian vegetarian cookbook it5five (if you don't have one already). If nothing else it will give you heaps on confidence in cooking using spices and herbs. A good vege Indian curry makes a great wholesome meal that will satisfy even the most devout meat eater :).

[thelonegoat]

proud vegitarian here!
eating some nice tofurkey :D

[Queso]

I just had sage and marjoram tofu sausages and organic red onions, cooked together in onion gravy and served with mashed potato and garden peas.

Comfort food. Yum!! :)

[it5five]

Without being overly specific I'd search out a beginners indian vegetarian cookbook it5five (if you don't have one already). If nothing else it will give you heaps on confidence in cooking using spices and herbs. A good vege Indian curry makes a great wholesome meal that will satisfy even the most devout meat eater :).

Thank you, I'll look around for one.

[The Doctor]

I've been a vegetarian for about 2 and a half years now. I posted earlier in this thread, but it seems to be friendlier now. So I was wondering if any of you vegetarians or vegans new of some good cookbooks. Usually I come across the usual cheap bargain priced ones with a lot of unrealistic and bland recipes. Do any of you have any recommendations?

anything by Isa Chandra Moskowitz is going to be amazing... i love Vegan with a Vengeance and the Veganomicon.

[it5five]

Thank you very much. I'd heard of her books before and meant to purchase them but forgot the authors name and titles. I will be purchasing Veganomicon very soon now.

[The Doctor]

you wont be disappointed... we cook from them at home almost everyday... probably my favorite thing is the pad thai at the moment... and the bean balls.

[Cheffy Dave]

My parents were vegetarians, and that is the way I was raised. I am 60 now and have never eaten meat. BP is 104/76, HR is 64 cholesterol is 110, sugar level is 72. Fruit/veggies/nuts/pasta 2 glasses of red wine a day. I'm 5'5"
and weigh146. For cooking only use fresh pressed Spanish EVOO. Hate to exercise, but do walk 3x week. I allow myself one Cuban Cigar/month
Both of my Children are Vegans too. My Wife will eat fish 4/5 times a year, but only Ahi Tuna Sushi.
Since moving to Florida, I grow my own vegetables year round.;)

[Iscariot]

I've been a vegetarian for about 2 and a half years now. I posted earlier in this thread, but it seems to be friendlier now. So I was wondering if any of you vegetarians or vegans new of some good cookbooks. Usually I come across the usual cheap bargain priced ones with a lot of unrealistic and bland recipes. Do any of you have any recommendations?

Sarah Kramer is one of the biggest names in vegan cooking (and a great person to boot) and has written several books. They're my go-to books, even moreso than Vegan With a Vengeance (which I gave away anyways).

[The Doctor]

My parents were vegetarians, and that is the way I was raised. I am 60 now and have never eaten meat. BP is 104/76, HR is 64 cholesterol is 110, sugar level is 72. Fruit/veggies/nuts/pasta 2 glasses of red wine a day. I'm 5'5"
and weigh146. For cooking only use fresh pressed Spanish EVOO. Hate to exercise, but do walk 3x week. I allow myself one Cuban Cigar/month
Both of my Children are Vegans too. My Wife will eat fish 4/5 times a year, but only Ahi Tuna Sushi.
Since moving to Florida, I grow my own vegetables year round.;)

that's awesome... i can't wait to have veggie kids.

[MacInTO]

I just went from vegan to raw. It's been almost a week.
Feels good :cool:
Congrats paola!

It's one of the best things I've ever done! Among them is going veg!

I find it is easy being vegetarian or even vegan in any large city. When I travel, I often eat very basic foods, fruit, veggies, nuts and seeds. Actually, my diet is always like this! :)

[Blue Velvet]

i can't wait to have veggie kids.

Found in the cabbage patch? Very a-peeling. ;)

[és:]

I've just spent my first week without meat. I don't really feel any different and I've not really noticed the lack of meat.

[Henri Gaudier]

Great news ... stick with it és. It really is the most decent thing to do. As time goes on and you find out more things you like the better it gets.

[tofupancake]

Interesting to find so many veggies here! I did a forum search for vegetarian, as I wondered if anyone had thought of making an iPhone app that linked to HappyCow or similar and plotted nearby veg restaurants. That would be very useful while travelling and I'd gladly pay $5-10 for such an app. (The answer is no, they haven't).

Anyway, I'm in my mid 30s, I've been vegan for 7.5 years, vegetarian for 6 months longer than that. Those 8 years have been the healthiest, strongest, fittest, and happiest of my life. I've only been an apple user for half that time :)

[m1ss1ontomars]

Who on here is a vegan or vegetarian? And what are you eating for Thanksgiving? I'm a vegetarian headed towards vegan, I'm eating a vegan nut roast with dressing. How long and why are you a vegetarian?

I'm not a vegetarian, but I really love that artificial meat stuff that my university residence halls serve. Mmmm. Fake meat in general is quite good, in my opinion.

[LoveMyRedSox]

Hi

Just figured i'd post to the vegetarian thread. I'm not vegan, but a vegetarian. Anyone else?

[anjinha]

I'm thinking about becoming a vegetarian, but I don't think I could go vegan. There's not a lot of vegan alternatives where I live.

Should I go to a nutritionist just to make sure I get all my nutrients?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I'm thinking about becoming a vegetarian, but I don't think I could go vegan. There's not a lot of vegan alternatives where I live.

Should I go to a nutritionist just to make sure I get all my nutrients?

I would. Get books on the stuff, because apparently soy isn't the healthiest thing to get your protein from. Who knew!?

[anjinha]

I would. Get books on the stuff, because apparently soy isn't the healthiest thing to get your protein from. Who knew!?

Really? Too bad, I like soy... :(

I just have one question, I understand why people become vegetarians, but why do you become vegan? I'm just curious...

[MacInTO]

I'm thinking about becoming a vegetarian, but I don't think I could go vegan. There's not a lot of vegan alternatives where I live.

Should I go to a nutritionist just to make sure I get all my nutrients?
One step at a time!

I didn't think I could go veg! I'm vegan and eat mostly raw food now!

here's a great site to help you figure out what nutrients are in what you're eating. It's good to measure what you're currently eating before you change your diet...

http://www.nutridiary.com/

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Really? Too bad, I like soy... :(

I just have one question, I understand why people become vegetarians, but why do you become vegan? I'm just curious...

often times it's because they don't like how the animals are treated. Not just that they're slaughtered, but that the cows are forced to be hooked up to machines, prodded and forced to stand in their own excrement.

I like soy too, but if you're using that for your protein then it will cause unhealthy amounts of estrogen in your system and I can barely stand watching Terms of Endearment as it is!

[anjinha]

Thanks for all the replies. I just have one more question: should I stop eating meat gradually or stop at once?

[EricNau]

Thanks for all the replies. I just have one more question: should I stop eating meat gradually or stop at once?
It won't make any difference, although be sure your vegetarian diet includes all of the required daily nutrients.

If you have any questions, consult your doctor. And enjoy your meat free diet! :)

[InvalidUserID]

often times it's because they don't like how the animals are treated. Not just that they're slaughtered, but that the cows are forced to be hooked up to machines, prodded and forced to stand in their own excrement...

I've tried to see how long I can go without meat but I end up lasting about a week. I just can't hang...

One of my friends called me a hypocrite for supporting PETA but still eating meat. My belief is that if an animal is going to be raised for human consumption, the least we can do is to treat it like a living being and with dignity.

No fois gras, veal or fur for me...

[anjinha]

For me I think the hardest part about becoming a vegetarian is going to be what to eat at parties or when going out to dinner. There's not a lot of vegetarian alternatives here. Even at my school, although they have vegetarian meals they sometimes are not very nutritious or fulfilling.

[eluk]

Thanks for all the replies. I just have one more question: should I stop eating meat gradually or stop at once?

I stopped dead nearly thirty years ago and am around to report the fact.

[anjinha]

I stopped dead nearly thirty years ago and am around to report the fact.

Lol. That's good to know. :D

Any suggestions on vegan/vegetarian snacks that I can carry in my bag?

[.Andy]

Lol. That's good to know. :D

Any suggestions on vegan/vegetarian snacks that I can carry in my bag?
Nuts, chocolate, scroggin/trail mix, carrots, fruit, dried fruits, yoghurt, cheese. I'm far more adventurous since I became vegetarian with my carry snacks :).

[Iscariot]

Nuts, chocolate, scroggin/trail mix, carrots, fruit, dried fruits, yoghurt, cheese. I'm far more adventurous since I became vegetarian with my carry snacks :).

Scrog...gin?

Try smoked almonds for a snack. They're like bacon almonds. Delicious, smokey and salty.

[anjinha]

Scrog...gin?

Try smoked almonds for a snack. They're like bacon almonds. Delicious, smokey and salty.

Hmm, sounds good. Thank you all for all the great ideas. :)

[MowingDevil]

I've tried to see how long I can go without meat but I end up lasting about a week. I just can't hang...

One of my friends called me a hypocrite for supporting PETA but still eating meat. My belief is that if an animal is going to be raised for human consumption, the least we can do is to treat it like a living being and with dignity.

No fois gras, veal or fur for me...

Well its something you'll have to find out for yourself. Your friend is right in a sense although I suppose it depends where you get your meat from. If you ever eat meat at average restaurants or fast food joints....or buy your meat at a grocery store then yes thats hypocritical. If you want a good read on the subject try "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser.

The way meat gets from the animal to your plate in the consumer driven machine is one of the worst things for the environment and trust me there's no dignity for the animals. It is different for the animals if they grow up on a farm, live in the fields and live a decent life. Those animals are few & far inbetween in the meat industry.

[MowingDevil]

I'm thinking about becoming a vegetarian, but I don't think I could go vegan. There's not a lot of vegan alternatives where I live.

Should I go to a nutritionist just to make sure I get all my nutrients?


It all depends, if you have common sense and eat well there's probably no need at all. I became a vegetarian 13 years ago after being raised on meat dominated meals. Alot of people were freaking me out about nutrition and said I'm lacking protein. So I went to the doctor & explained the situation. He laughed and said by cutting out meat I'm probably getting the correct amount of protein that a human body needs. But, to alleviate my fears he sent me for a blood test. This is over a year of being a veg. The tests came back and I was fine in all areas....vit B12 was a tad low but nothing to worry about. He said if I wanted I could take B12 supplements but it wasn't anything to worry about. I want to add, that looking back I was the worst vegetarian ever. I just cut out meat and then did almost *nothing* to replace it in my diet. I had veggie pizza, veggie pasta etc. I was a student and imagine a bad student diet, eating fast on the go. Since then I've learned more about nutrition and take the time to eat well as much as possible.

Becoming a vegetarian is completely natural and your body will thank you. I really don't think there's any need to consult a doctor or nutritionist unless you're seriously worried. Just use common sense and don't eat much processed food. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but a GREAT source of protein is hemp hearts (shelled hemp seeds). They are a complete protein and have all the essential amino acids in there. They're assume as a snack (taste like nuts) or on a salad.

Another great book is Vegan Planet

I'm not a vegan yet but would really love to make the jump. The only thing that really holds me back is I love cheese & milk chocolate. :o

[MyDesktopBroke]

The vegetable industry is equally bad for the ecology. I talked to some one who had a large farmer community where he lived, but did they have a local farmers market? No, they packed all the goods into trucks and shipped them across America.

Where does he get his veggies? From across America, where they just shipped the ones grown outside his city.
:confused:

I don't eat meat, but still eat eggs and milk. I've been going for 2 1/2 years so far. Right now I think chicken (cooked) smells pretty bad. . . although bacon is another story *inhales*

[MowingDevil]

Before you get too excited about bacon read up on this a bit:
http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/iowa_pigfarm_abuse

I did some clicking around and came across of picture of baby pig tales & testicles that were ripped off by hand...without any pain killers.

You are right about agriculture, not sure its as bad overall when you consider the waste issue. Shipping produce across a country or overseas is insane. Its big business though and money calls the shots. I find it absurd that where I live in BC we grow an abundance of fruit yet its still imported up from California, Florida and overseas.

[MowingDevil]

One of the things that helped me become a vegetarian is the fact I find it very hard to touch raw meat. I've no problem with uncooked bacon, sausages of anything cooked. Even a raw chicken breast is 'okay'. It's larger cuts of meat, especially on the bone and with skin.

Every time I touch a chicken or turkey that's dead and still has skin I think of the last time I saw my mother the night she died. Saying goodbye to her cold lifeless body.:(

Wouldn't have been so bad if she'd not been wearing the chicken suit I guess!
That's a joke, probably inappropriate though.
http://www.foureyesjokeshop.com/ProductImages/chicken_suit_costume.jpg

lmao

[Afini]

I just eat people.

[MowingDevil]

that's awesome... i can't wait to have veggie kids.

Wha, and risk being thrown in the slammer?!?
;)

[MowingDevil]

I just eat people.

Might wanna give that Hufu a try.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdfxNYKWcN4

[anjinha]

Do japanese restaurants have vegetarian sushi?

[MowingDevil]

Every one I've been to does.

here's a few common dishes:

Avocado rolls
Cucumber rolls
Yam rolls
Gomai is a delicious salad, spinich & peanut sauce I believe
Be careful w/ the Miso soup as often it has tuna flakes in it.
Veg Tempura is deep fried vegetables.

[anjinha]

Every one I've been to does.

here's a few common dishes:

Avocado rolls
Cucumber rolls
Yam rolls
Gomai is a delicious salad, spinich & peanut sauce I believe
Be careful w/ the Miso soup as often it has tuna flakes in it.
Veg Tempura is deep fried vegetables.


Very nice, thanks.

This is my 3rd day not eating meat :)

[yrsonicdeath]

I was for three years. Not anymore.

[anjinha]

I was for three years. Not anymore.

Why not?

[yrsonicdeath]

Why not?

I just was overall not feeling good, depression, etc.

It all went away when I stopped. I don't know if it was a physical thing or a mental thing. I really enjoyed it though while it lasted.

[Iscariot]

Very nice, thanks.

This is my 3rd day not eating meat :)

Inari is usually vegetarian as well (different from enagi). It's rice wrapped in fried tofu sheets.

[.Andy]

Inari is usually vegetarian as well (different from enagi). It's rice wrapped in fried tofu sheets.
You can also buy inari pouches and make them up yourself. They make a very quick and easy lunch. Just cook up some sushi rice and then pop in your favorite fresh vegies, a bit of tofu, and you're away. Alternatively just pop in some of the left over stir-fry or fried rice from the night before. A very quick, easy and filling lunch. And they last a couple of days in the fridge :).

[stanfordtechman]

watch out being B12 deficiency b/c it is in animal products only

[anjinha]

watch out being B12 deficiency b/c it is in animal products only

I'm still eating eggs and dairy, at least for now.

[Satori]

watch out being B12 deficiency b/c it is in animal products only

This is a bit of a myth. B12 deficiency symptoms take a very long time to develop (5 to 20 years) and are not straightforwardly linked to consumption of animal products. The source of B12 is not plants OR animals; neither manufacture their own B12. Bacteria are, in fact, the B12 producers on which both plants and animals rely. In humans, the mouth, upper intestine, and lower intestine all contain bacteria that produce B12. However, it's unknown if enough B12 to meet daily requirements can come from internal sources of B12. More likely, they produce some, and the rest comes in with food and water consumed.

All of the Vitamin B12 in the world ultimately comes from bacteria. Plants can be contaminated with B12 when they come in contact with soil bacteria that produce it (although this source of B12 is often washed away in food preparation). Animal foods are rich in B12 only because animals eat foods that are contaminated with it or because bacteria living in an animal's intestines make it.

But if you are worried about B12 intake take a supplement. The good news is that it is virtually impossible to consume too much B12, since it has a very low potential for toxicity.

[anjinha]

This is a bit of a myth. B12 deficiency symptoms take a very long time to develop (5 to 20 years) and are not straightforwardly linked to consumption of animal products. The source of B12 is not plants OR animals; neither manufacture their own B12. Bacteria are, in fact, the B12 producers on which both plants and animals rely. In humans, the mouth, upper intestine, and lower intestine all contain bacteria that produce B12. However, it's unknown if enough B12 to meet daily requirements can come from internal sources of B12. More likely, they produce some, and the rest comes in with food and water consumed.

All of the Vitamin B12 in the world ultimately comes from bacteria. Plants can be contaminated with B12 when they come in contact with soil bacteria that produce it (although this source of B12 is often washed away in food preparation). Animal foods are rich in B12 only because animals eat foods that are contaminated with it or because bacteria living in an animal's intestines make it.

But if you are worried about B12 intake take a supplement. The good news is that it is virtually impossible to consume too much B12, since it has a very low potential for toxicity.

That's good to know. Still when I get a chance I'm going to a nutritionist just to make sure I'm doing things right. :)

[Iscariot]

You can also buy inari pouches and make them up yourself. They make a very quick and easy lunch. Just cook up some sushi rice and then pop in your favorite fresh vegies, a bit of tofu, and you're away. Alternatively just pop in some of the left over stir-fry or fried rice from the night before. A very quick, easy and filling lunch. And they last a couple of days in the fridge :).

I've actually never seen inari pouches anywhere, but that would be pretty swell.

[MowingDevil]

Inari is usually vegetarian as well (different from enagi). It's rice wrapped in fried tofu sheets.

Right! I just had that not too long ago & didn't know what it was. Sort of had a sweet teriyaki style sauce on it. Delicious!

[donga]

mmm vegetables.... with steak, and chicken, and pork, and fish, and...

[MacInTO]

In 2009, I photographed everything I ate. This is the result...

http://garry.cc/blog/2010/06/19/whatiate/

I did this because I saw a book that had photos of everything a guy ate for a year. He was an omnivore, but his diet was pretty bad. I came up with this idea when I started to get the same questions over and over again as a vegetarian.

Feel free to repost the link.

Thanks! :apple: