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MacRumors
Nov 28, 2007, 09:16 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Orange announced (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11474/12498/french-orange-iphone-plans-revealed.phtml) pricing for the iPhone in France today.

Orange will be selling the iPhone for 399 euro along with one of four plans with prices ranging from 49 euros to 119 euros per month. All plans include unlimited internet and visual voicemail.

Customers who don't wish to subscribe to those particular plans can instead pay 549 euro and use another Orange plan. Finally for 649 euro, customers can purchase an iPhone with no required contract or obligation to Orange. The iPhone itself, however, will still need to be unlocked. With all options (399, 549, 649 euro), any customer may unlock the iPhone for an addition 100 euro during the first six months. After six months, the iPhone may be unlocked for free in accordance with French law.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/28/orange-announces-iphone-france-and-unlocking-options/)



davidlt
Nov 28, 2007, 09:22 AM
399 euro, wait six months and it's unlocked for me :)

bmcgrath
Nov 28, 2007, 09:23 AM
Apple!! Please release the iPhone on the Irish market!!!!! :mad:

Atavusthe3rd
Nov 28, 2007, 09:29 AM
399 euro, wait six months and it's unlocked for me :)

don`t forget the 49 euro per month....

igazza
Nov 28, 2007, 09:32 AM
Apple!! Please release the iPhone on the Irish market!!!!! :mad:

and in australia plzzzzzz

SirOmega
Nov 28, 2007, 09:32 AM
So for 749 euro, its possible to get an unlocked iPhone. Not too bad. If the dollar wasn't at such a ****** exchange rate right now, I could see a lot of Americans trying to get their hands on them.

penx
Nov 28, 2007, 09:33 AM
399 euro, wait six months and it's unlocked for me :)

399 euros, plus 12 x 49 Euros for required contract for first 12 months, plus 12 x 4.50 because you take a 12 month contract instead of 24

= 841 Euros

(ps http://iphone.orange.fr/ )

hollerz
Nov 28, 2007, 09:44 AM
So about £537 for a legitimate unlocked phone without a contract, not including shipping and probably tax. Pretty expensive :(

Stella
Nov 28, 2007, 09:45 AM
$649 is a good price. In Canada - just under $1K - is what you'd pay for a unlocked ( very ) high end smartphone.

France is going to be the iPhone hotspot for getting unlocked iPhones.

Germans could cross the border and get their unlocked iPhones instead of paying the high price they would pay in Germany.

QCassidy352
Nov 28, 2007, 09:53 AM
Good ol socialist france. :rolleyes:

kamiboy
Nov 28, 2007, 09:56 AM
Is it me or does it make very little sense to buy a locked iPhone without contract for 649? The only people that would be interested in that would be hack unlockers. At least a fully unlocked iPhone costs 649 + 100 = 749, which is a little more reasonable than 999.

helgeg
Nov 28, 2007, 09:57 AM
France is going to be the iPhone hotspot for getting unlocked iPhones.

Germans could cross the border and get their unlocked iPhones instead of paying the high price they would pay in Germany.

And what's best is that Germans don't even have to cross the border, they can simply order iPhones from French mail order companies. Should Apple or Orange really try to prevent that, the EU will come after them. :)

Dalriada
Nov 28, 2007, 10:05 AM
So who's swimming the Channel tonight ??

:apple:Dal

Dagless
Nov 28, 2007, 10:05 AM
So, we didn't get anywhere with the "cloning an legit unlocked iPhone f/w" idea?

I wouldn't mind paying £462 for an unlocked iPhone. Annoying thing is I want the o2 package they supply in the UK, but I also want to use my Vodaphone sim card for calling friends and family for free.

Macula
Nov 28, 2007, 10:05 AM
And what's best is that Germans don't even have to cross the border, they can simply order iPhones from French mail order companies. Should Apple or Orange really try to prevent that, the EU will come after them. :)

Indeed. Proud to be European. :rolleyes:

nickane
Nov 28, 2007, 10:13 AM
So, we didn't get anywhere with the "cloning an legit unlocked iPhone f/w" idea?

I wouldn't mind paying £462 for an unlocked iPhone. Annoying thing is I want the o2 package they supply in the UK, but I also want to use my Vodaphone sim card for calling friends and family for free.

Indeed. It's worth paying the £200 premium for the choice, but most ppl in London will still end up paying for the cloud, and by the time you've done that, you might as well be paying 45 quid for 500 mins with o2 so that you get all the freebies that come with the (still overpriced) price plans...

seedster2
Nov 28, 2007, 10:14 AM
Waiting for the :

"Apple is changing the cell phone market for the better"
"The consumer will be better off without the greedy Telcos at the helm"

:rolleyes:

Look at those ridiculous fees. This shared revenue has done nothing to help the consumer. All it does is lead to higher tarriffs from the telcos who are trying to get back the up front costs. Only one who benefits is Apple.

I cant wait to see the sales figures for european regions, they will be mediocre at best. All the people who wanted one imported them unlocked and shrewdly circumvented the ridiculous price gouging.

morespce54
Nov 28, 2007, 10:19 AM
Is it me or does it make very little sense to buy a locked iPhone without contract for 649? The only people that would be interested in that would be hack unlockers. At least a fully unlocked iPhone costs 649 + 100 = 749, which is a little more reasonable than 999.

That's right... 999 is a crazy pricing scheme...

guifa
Nov 28, 2007, 10:27 AM
Is it me or does it make very little sense to buy a locked iPhone without contract for 649? The only people that would be interested in that would be hack unlockers. At least a fully unlocked iPhone costs 649 + 100 = 749, which is a little more reasonable than 999.
Or 649€ + 6 months' time = 649€ and a bit of waiting.

Hugo ThomsenBBh
Nov 28, 2007, 10:27 AM
Not a chance - I tried one in the Apple shop, and Internet is just too slow. It's a phone AND a web device, with the web crawling away. Nope, I will resist temptation and wait for the 3G model and availability across telecoms.

jonnyb
Nov 28, 2007, 10:29 AM
So about £537 for a legitimate unlocked phone without a contract, not including shipping and probably tax. Pretty expensive :(

Get yourself down to St Pancras, get the Eurostar, make a weekend of it :)

BKKbill
Nov 28, 2007, 10:39 AM
This unlocking seems to be getting better all the time. Now we have to get it to Thailand. Maybe sooner than Canada. Oh sorry just pulling your chain. :p

Yankees 4 Life
Nov 28, 2007, 10:41 AM
i'm going to france in the summer. Could i take my iphone over there and have it unlocked?

patjem
Nov 28, 2007, 10:41 AM
the iPhone's language would still be French I assume? Or can you change this without any hacking ?

jonnyb
Nov 28, 2007, 10:48 AM
the iPhone's language would still be French I assume? Or can you change this without any hacking ?

Well if it's 1.1.2 you can choose between French, English, German and Italian

gkarris
Nov 28, 2007, 10:49 AM
399 euros, plus 12 x 49 Euros for required contract for first 12 months, plus 12 x 4.50 because you take a 12 month contract instead of 24

= 841 Euros

(ps http://iphone.orange.fr/ )


What the heck is a "euro"? :p

j763
Nov 28, 2007, 10:50 AM
Good ol socialist france. :rolleyes:

...where consumer protection exists.

thechidz
Nov 28, 2007, 10:50 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

And what's best is that Germans don't even have to cross the border, they can simply order iPhones from French mail order companies. Should Apple or Orange really try to prevent that, the EU will come after them. :)

Indeed. Proud to be European. :rolleyes:

LOL I dont think I have ever met a european who wasn't proud to be one :p

hollerz
Nov 28, 2007, 10:56 AM
Get yourself down to St Pancras, get the Eurostar, make a weekend of it :)

Might be a good idea actually, always wanted to go to Paris! :D

I have an unlocked one atm imported from the US, but I want to update when they release the third-party apps firmware without waiting ages for the hackers to hack it (if they even do). So I might just do that next year :P

Tangenten
Nov 28, 2007, 10:56 AM
"Reality is a bitch" calling Captain Obvious!
"Reality is a bitch" calling Captain Obvious!
Urgent message for you: Please pick up!

<Start Urgent Message>
- The iPhone is DoA (Dead on Arrival) in Europe
- Repeat
- The iPhone is DoA in Europe

- RDF is gone
- Repeat
- The RDF has been depleted. World domination-plans are shattered.

- Consumerprotection-laws are being enforced
- Repeat
- Consumerprotection-laws are being enforced

- Acknowledge failure
- Repeat
- Acknowledge abysmal failure. Go outside and get a clue, you twat!
<End Urgent Message>

Otaviano
Nov 28, 2007, 10:59 AM
Germans could cross the border and get their unlocked iPhones instead of paying the high price they would pay in Germany.

The borders are long gone.

Lycanthrope
Nov 28, 2007, 11:01 AM
What the heck is a "euro"? :p

Ah, that'll be the currency that everyone's investing in now because the dollar is dead :D

Well seems to be that there's no reason now for Apple not to push the iPhone into the rest of Europe. I'm still thinking to get one from the US - $399 comes out at €275ish right now which looks pretty attractive compared to €750 and perhaps worth the risj on hacking.

Now there are unlocked phones out there couldn't one take the firmware from one and flash it into a US phone somehow?

Stella
Nov 28, 2007, 11:02 AM
The borders are long gone.

Although there is free movement between each EU (*most) countries without a passport (except UK ), the country 'borders' still exist - which is what I really meant ( i.e., the border that defines each countries territory ).

Otaviano
Nov 28, 2007, 11:05 AM
Although there is free movement between each EU (*most) countries without a passport (except UK ), the country 'borders' still exist - which is what I really meant.

I don't believe I showed my passport when I went to the UK, but it was back in 2001 so I can't really remember.

BKKbill
Nov 28, 2007, 11:11 AM
Ah, that'll be the currency that everyone's investing in now because the dollar is dead :D

Well not dead but the euro does seem to be the up and coming currency. It seems even Apple has taken notice.

HyperX
Nov 28, 2007, 11:19 AM
I don't believe I showed my passport when I went to the UK, but it was back in 2001 so I can't really remember.

You have to show it unless your traveling between Ireland and the UK... The UK is not part of the Shingen Zone so a passport is required even for EU residence.

Aaargh!
Nov 28, 2007, 11:24 AM
What the heck is a "euro"? :p

That's the money you'll be paying your oil in, in a couple of years.

Hell, even US rappers are showing off with stacks of euro's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPKs26Z29nU

manu chao
Nov 28, 2007, 11:26 AM
You have to show it unless your traveling between Ireland and the UK... The UK is not part of the Shingen Zone so a passport is required even for EU residence.

I think an ID is sufficient but I am not sure. Switzerland is also not a member of the Schengen zone (but soon will be, despite not being an EU member) and crossing the border between Switzerland and the EU only requires an ID not a passport.

Matti
Nov 28, 2007, 11:31 AM
I don't believe I showed my passport when I went to the UK, but it was back in 2001 so I can't really remember.

UK and Ireland aren't part of Schengen treaty, so yes there is still passport control (To make it even more confusing--->Iceland and Norway aren't in EU but are part of Schengen border treaty).

EagerDragon
Nov 28, 2007, 11:32 AM
399 euros, plus 12 x 49 Euros for required contract for first 12 months, plus 12 x 4.50 because you take a 12 month contract instead of 24

= 841 Euros

(ps http://iphone.orange.fr/ )

That is cheap in comparizon to paying 799 + 49 to 59 EU per month with a competitor.

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 11:39 AM
Before all people start driving and flying to France...

...I don't want to spoil the party....

...but on a french forum this afternoon I asked what this unlocking means exactly.

http://www.iphon.fr/post/2007/11/28/Forfaits-iPhone-confirmes-%3A-en-ligne-sur-le-site-Orange?pub=1
My question is number 81, answer followed on number 82.

They answered that its a local unlocking ! It means the iphone is unlocked to allow people to use other French sim cards, which mean, you can use the iphone with any french phone carrier you prefer.

I asked, so if i put my Belgian sim of my belgian carrier inside, what happens then?

Answer: it will be locked !

Is there anyone that can confirm this?

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 11:47 AM
On the same forum I read this:

"Il est possible d'activer son iphone US sur itunes pour le faire fonctionner avec une sim Orange et revenir dans la légalité la plus totale et finis les desimlockage a chaque mise a jour."

It says that its possible to activate a US iphone through iTunes to make it work with an French Orange sim and turn it back into a full legal status. At the end you will be able to unlock it as announced...

That's an interesting idea.....

Compile 'em all
Nov 28, 2007, 11:49 AM
Before all people start driving and flying to France...

...I don't want to spoil the party....

...but on a french forum this afternoon I asked what this unlocking means exactly.

http://www.iphon.fr/post/2007/11/28/Forfaits-iPhone-confirmes-%3A-en-ligne-sur-le-site-Orange?pub=1
My question is number 81, answer followed on number 82.

They answered that its a local unlocking ! It means the iphone is unlocked to allow people to use other French sim cards, which mean, you can use the iphone with any french phone carrier you prefer.

I asked, so if i put my Belgian sim of my belgian carrier inside, what happens then?

Answer: it will be locked !

Is there anyone that can confirm this?

This is rubbish. An unlocked phone means you can put ANY sim card in and it works.

Ben C
Nov 28, 2007, 11:53 AM
On the same forum I read this:

"Il est possible d'activer son iphone US sur itunes pour le faire fonctionner avec une sim Orange et revenir dans la légalité la plus totale et finis les desimlockage a chaque mise a jour."

It says that its possible to activate a US iphone through iTunes to make it work with an French Orange sim and turn it back into a full legal status. At the end you will be able to unlock it as announced...

That's an interesting idea.....
But surely when you plug a US iPhone into iTunes it only shows you AT&T stuff? I'm pretty sure when I plugged in my UK iPhone I only saw o2.

EDIT: just read the French site, and they're talking about putting an Orange SIM in first.

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 11:56 AM
This is rubbish. An unlocked phone means you can put ANY sim card in and it works.

I agree its not what we all want, but i am not convinced this is just rubbish. Technically I think they could do lock locally. Anyone?

weckart
Nov 28, 2007, 12:10 PM
I agree its not what we all want, but i am not convinced this is just rubbish. Technically I think they could do lock locally. Anyone?

I don't have the answer but it's a worthwhile question. This is, after all, French local law, not the EU at work and under French law, for all we know, the requirement to unlock may only be to allow other French carriers to compete for your custom.

Why should a local law be bothered about foreign competition? That is what EU directives are for.

Otaviano
Nov 28, 2007, 12:16 PM
It rubbish ... there is no way they can only unlock it for French SIM cards. For one it's way to much work for them to identify and categorize which SIM cards can be used on an unlocked phone. Second, I'm sure they would be hit with complaints and lawsuits. The biggest reason for people wanting unlocked phones is so they can put in local SIM cards when they are out of the country.

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 12:20 PM
It rubbish ... there is no way they can only unlock it for French SIM cards. For one it's way to much work for them to identify and categorize which SIM cards can be used on an unlocked phone. Second, I'm sure they would be hit with complaints and lawsuits. The biggest reason for people wanting unlocked phones is so they can put in local SIM cards when they are out of the country.

Okay, I live a half an hour from the French border. Is it fine to you I go buy an iPhone, and if it works with my Belgian sim I keep it. And if it doesn't work I can ask you for my costs? Deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised its really locally unlocked. Why would it be difficult? Each carrier must have its own kind of identity number, no?
How many carriers in the world? 1000? Its only a short list to check...

MacsRgr8
Nov 28, 2007, 12:27 PM
Okay, I live a half an hour from the French border. Is it fine to you I go buy an iPhone, and if it works with my Belgian sim I keep it. And if it doesn't work I can ask you for my costs? Deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised its really locally unlocked. Why would it be difficult? Each carrier must have its own kind of identity number, no?
How many carriers in the world? 1000? Its only a short list to check...

Please do!

Surely there are enough European MacRumors members who are willing to pay a small fee to know for SURE.
If the French iPhone can be unlocked WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACKS, I am pretty sure many Europeans will suddenly love to visit Paris on their Christmas holiday.... me included.
OK, I have a hacked iPhone now, but I would love to get a fully supported iPhone which I can keep updating, complete warranty, and the knowledge that once the real iPhone-apps will come along I can install and enjoy every single one of them.

cazlar
Nov 28, 2007, 12:30 PM
Now there are unlocked phones out there couldn't one take the firmware from one and flash it into a US phone somehow?

Presumably, there is no "unlocked" firmware - it's just the same as normal. The thing is Apple know how to generate real "unlock codes" based on the unique IMEI to send to the phone to tell it to unlock itself. The hackers can't generate these code themelves (it's very cryptologically difficult), so are getting around it by tricking the phone into thinking it is unlocked by messing with its firmware.

So having offically unlocked phones out in the wild doesn't really help the hackers efforts all that much, as far as I know.

Otaviano
Nov 28, 2007, 12:32 PM
Okay, I live a half an hour from the French border. Is it fine to you I go buy an iPhone, and if it works with my Belgian sim I keep it. And if it doesn't work I can ask you for my costs? Deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised its really locally unlocked. Why would it be difficult? Each carrier must have its own kind of identity number, no?
How many carriers in the world? 1000? Its only a short list to check...

If it doesn't work you just return it, it's completely within your rights to do that. Or better yet you take them to court over it because you have an air tight case.

It's got to be way to much labor to lock the phone down to multiple carrier. After-all the phone is run through a SIM card and there can't be that much info stored on it. Most likely the locked phone only accepts a SIM with some type of serial numbers associated with Orange. Once the lock is removed all SIM cards operate. So to lock it to only national carriers Orange would need those carriers to disclose information about their SIM cards which I doubt they would willingly do.

Furthermore it would be one of the biggest mistakes they ever-made because the lawsuit would be eminent.

Krevnik
Nov 28, 2007, 12:32 PM
Okay, I live a half an hour from the French border. Is it fine to you I go buy an iPhone, and if it works with my Belgian sim I keep it. And if it doesn't work I can ask you for my costs? Deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised its really locally unlocked. Why would it be difficult? Each carrier must have its own kind of identity number, no?
How many carriers in the world? 1000? Its only a short list to check...

It is difficult for EXACTLY the reasons already described.

One of the reasons why US people are kinda pissed there isn't an unlocking option here at all is because of international roaming. It is the BIG reason to have an unlocked phone, so you can use prepaid SIMs in other countries instead of paying absurd roaming charges (upwards of a USD a minute). If that doesn't work, it isn't really SIM unlocked.

Local locks are also hard because each phone has the /same/ firmware. You would have to go through a lot of work to partially unlock a phone in a way that gives it a whitelist for a region. Especially since some carriers like Orange, T-Mobile, and others, use the same set of SIM chips around the world.

The customer service rep doesn't have a clue.

andiwm2003
Nov 28, 2007, 12:36 PM
Please do!

Surely there are enough European MacRumors members who are willing to pay a small fee to know for SURE.
If the French iPhone can be unlocked WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACKS, I am pretty sure many Europeans will suddenly love to visit Paris on their Christmas holiday.... me included.
OK, I have a hacked iPhone now, but I would love to get a fully supported iPhone which I can keep updating, complete warranty, and the knowledge that once the real iPhone-apps will come along I can install and enjoy every single one of them.


there was a report from german unlocked iphones. they did NOT work in italy because apple's software was lousy programmed in a way that it did not recognize all sim cards. in short, it's not that they actively block sim cards, they just do not recognize all sim cards out there. that was what the (spiegel.de) article said. if apple is ever going to fix this is uncertain. so outside france and germany you have to try and hope for the best. maybe when the iphone comes to your particular country then an update will support all sim cards from your particular country. right now i would wait a few weeks and let others take the chance.....

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 12:38 PM
Please do!

Surely there are enough European MacRumors members who are willing to pay a small fee to know for SURE.
If the French iPhone can be unlocked WITHOUT ANY DRAWBACKS, I am pretty sure many Europeans will suddenly love to visit Paris on their Christmas holiday.... me included.
OK, I have a hacked iPhone now, but I would love to get a fully supported iPhone which I can keep updating, complete warranty, and the knowledge that once the real iPhone-apps will come along I can install and enjoy every single one of them.

I would be very surprised they unlock without any drawbacks....why else would they make all effort specifially for each country?

Apple must know its only 2 hrs from London to Paris by train, they must know Germany is next to France.

In Germany its 999€, in France its 749€....what kind of pricing is this if its possible to just cross the border....Why do lawsuites in Germany if Germans can pick up a fully unlocked French Iphone and put German sims...?

Focaldesign
Nov 28, 2007, 12:38 PM
I'm from Belgium, live 15 minutes from the French border. What I am really wondering, is this. My Belgian provider is Mobistar. Mobistar is a doughter company of Orange. If I would buy an iPhone without the Orange account but still Orange-simlocked (549 EUR), would it work with my Mobistar simcard???

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 12:40 PM
I'm from Belgium, live 15 minutes from the French border. What I am really wondering, is this. My Belgian provider is Mobistar. Mobistar is a doughter company of Orange. If I would buy an iPhone without the Orange account but still Orange-simlocked (549 EUR), would it work with my Mobistar simcard???

Check my posts in this thread, its exactly what we are talking about. I am from Belgium too.

Focaldesign
Nov 28, 2007, 12:42 PM
Check my posts in this thread, its exactly what we are talking about. I am from Belgium too.

Indeed, but I have no drivers license and I have no money( yet) to buy any of the possible iPhones (399, 549, 749) so I can't check it myself :)

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 12:43 PM
there was a report from german unlocked iphones. they did NOT work in italy because apple's software was lousy programmed in a way that it did not recognize all sim cards. in short, it's not that they actively block sim cards, they just do not recognize all sim cards out there. that was what the (spiegel.de) article said. if apple is ever going to fix this is uncertain. so outside france and germany you have to try and hope for the best. maybe when the iphone comes to your particular country then an update will support all sim cards from your particular country. right now i would wait a few weeks and let others take the chance.....

It could be a good idea to go to a french apple store. I wait for someone who buys a unlocked French Iphone and ask him/her if I can try to put my Belgian sim card inside.....

Maybe even the Apple store staff are willing to try with my Belgian Sim.....

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 12:45 PM
It is difficult for EXACTLY the reasons already described.

One of the reasons why US people are kinda pissed there isn't an unlocking option here at all is because of international roaming. It is the BIG reason to have an unlocked phone, so you can use prepaid SIMs in other countries instead of paying absurd roaming charges (upwards of a USD a minute). If that doesn't work, it isn't really SIM unlocked.

Local locks are also hard because each phone has the /same/ firmware. You would have to go through a lot of work to partially unlock a phone in a way that gives it a whitelist for a region. Especially since some carriers like Orange, T-Mobile, and others, use the same set of SIM chips around the world.

The customer service rep doesn't have a clue.

You give me some hope now...

Focaldesign
Nov 28, 2007, 12:45 PM
Maybe even the Apple store staff are willing to try with my Belgian Sim.....

That would be nice... then you would know immediatly without the purchase cost.

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 12:48 PM
If it doesn't work you just return it, it's completely within your rights to do that. Or better yet you take them to court over it because you have an air tight case.

It's got to be way to much labor to lock the phone down to multiple carrier. After-all the phone is run through a SIM card and there can't be that much info stored on it. Most likely the locked phone only accepts a SIM with some type of serial numbers associated with Orange. Once the lock is removed all SIM cards operate. So to lock it to only national carriers Orange would need those carriers to disclose information about their SIM cards which I doubt they would willingly do.

Furthermore it would be one of the biggest mistakes they ever-made because the lawsuit would be eminent.

Do you know if a sim has for example a code specifically related to a carrier?

Could be for example like 543-xxxxxx. Where 543 is related to Orange France and the other number to the specific Orange Sim.

If Apple puts a list with all numbers (three digits) in their database, I don't think they need then to get disclosed information from anyone.... No?

savar
Nov 28, 2007, 12:51 PM
I'm really confused now...how is this not "subsidized" pricing?

Otaviano
Nov 28, 2007, 01:00 PM
Do you know if a sim has for example a code specifically related to a carrier?

Could be for example like 543-xxxxxx. Where 543 is related to Orange France and the other number to the specific Orange Sim.

If Apple puts a list with all numbers (three digits) in their database, I don't think they need then to get disclosed information from anyone.... No?

I don't know the specifics ... it's not my line of work. I do know that every other phone manufacturer in the world that releases a GSM phone does not have this problem. I took my phone to Asia and used it without problems. I took my phone from Italy to Sweden and use it without problems.

If these reports, like the poster claiming to have trouble using his unlocked iPhone in Italy, are true then Apple and their partners will be facing some lawsuits very soon. Because they are essentially claiming to sell you an unlocked phone and not really doing so. If this is the case they are selling you a locked phone where they've broadened the acceptable SIMs. That however is not really unlocked.

My recommendation is to either wait a few weeks and see what people are reporting on the internet. Or just purchase a phone and hack it.

I'm really confused now...how is this not "subsidized" pricing?

Apple the innovator is redefining the word! What a company!

Daz777777
Nov 28, 2007, 01:07 PM
I'm on Orange UK and I'm wondering if that would work ok?

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 01:27 PM
I'm on Orange UK and I'm wondering if that would work ok?

You should take the train to Paris and check it out this weekend....

nja247
Nov 28, 2007, 01:31 PM
And what's best is that Germans don't even have to cross the border, they can simply order iPhones from French mail order companies. Should Apple or Orange really try to prevent that, the EU will come after them. :)

Not so much though, EU competition law won't really apply to the iPhone as Apple has such a small market share in the mobile phone business, thus it won't affect trade enough to hurt the common market. Though I don't see either orange or Apple worrying too much over it.

jwkay
Nov 28, 2007, 01:58 PM
I'm from Belgium, live 15 minutes from the French border. What I am really wondering, is this. My Belgian provider is Mobistar. Mobistar is a doughter company of Orange. If I would buy an iPhone without the Orange account but still Orange-simlocked (549 EUR), would it work with my Mobistar simcard???

There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

Focaldesign
Nov 28, 2007, 02:01 PM
There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

Crap, so even an unlocked phone of 749 EUR has a possibility to not work in Belgium!

SimonTheSoundMa
Nov 28, 2007, 02:05 PM
So, £464 for phone, O2 Simplicity pay monthly including unlimited Internet.

£15+7.5*18 = £405 + £464 = £869 over 18 months.

Oh, you get 1,500 op minutes and 250 texts or 200/200. £35 for 200/200 on iPhone contract. All you loose is Visual Voicemail.

iPhone plus 200/200 at £35/month is £630, plus £270 = £900.

Warrantee carries over to the UK too as it was bought in a EU country.

1,500 + 250 looks more pleasing, however that comes to £48/month so still a rip-off.

tsjoemie
Nov 28, 2007, 02:08 PM
There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

So they do unlock only locally.....

Yuppi
Nov 28, 2007, 02:11 PM
There is no such think as "the SIM card" there are plenty of actual SIM cards with different specs. The only think they have in common that they implement a protocol in a certain way. But there can be variations in timing, features (number of stored adresses for example). I guess that the iPhone is not as extensively tested with different SIM cards as an SE phone for example.

MacsRgr8
Nov 28, 2007, 02:11 PM
There is a report (http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.133317) that a Swedish customer purchased 2 unlocked iPhones in Germany, which then didn't behave properly back in Sweden with Swedish SIM cards. SMS and normal phone useage was "erratic".

Apple referred him back to T-Mobile, who couldn't give him a good answer as to why the "unlocked" phones didn't work with non-German SIM cards. Speculation that the phones may in some way be locked to the country-code portion of the SIM card identifier.

It's getting more complicated by the minute... :(

nja247
Nov 28, 2007, 02:20 PM
Crap, so even an unlocked phone of 749 EUR has a possibility to not work in Belgium!

Actually the "hackers" have this all sorted since they've been using 1.1.2 phones on un-approved networks for weeks now. You simply need to create a .plist file for your carrier and 'symlink' it and then it should work just fine. It's not the easiest thing to grasp, but it can be done. Further the country code and phone format details need entered into the AppSupport file for the phone to function properly in a country not already included in that file (possibly Belgium).

Go to the usual suspects for full details and info. However, Apple should sort this out as it's their product (though of course only for those who legally bought an unlock through T-Mobile or Orange in the future as they owe no liability to those who bought the phones and violated terms by unlocking inappropriately).

Krevnik
Nov 28, 2007, 02:41 PM
I would be very surprised they unlock without any drawbacks....why else would they make all effort specifially for each country?


Because each country needs UI in /their/ language, you need to find a carrier that provides service in /their/ region. Plus, by pitting the carriers against each other for the exclusivity contract, the terms become more favorable for Apple than the operators.

Papajohn56
Nov 28, 2007, 03:00 PM
That's the money you'll be paying your oil in, in a couple of years.

:rolleyes: Even OPEC said it would be ridiculous to switch away from the dollar and woulndn't happen. Taking any thing Hugo Chavez or Ahmadenijiad seriously isn't really a good plan.

nja247
Nov 28, 2007, 03:07 PM
:rolleyes: Even OPEC said it would be ridiculous to switch away from the dollar and woulndn't happen. Taking any thing Hugo Chavez or Ahmadenijiad seriously isn't really a good plan.

We saw what happened to Iraq when they went with Euros vs Dollars. Though I'm not implying that's why things happened -- just saying. Anyhow how does any of this have to do with the phone ? lol.

Lycanthrope
Nov 28, 2007, 03:07 PM
An unlocked phone is an unlocked phone and should work with any SIM from any country. Can be that because Apple are new to the mobile market there are bugs in the firmware that stop some SIM's working properly. As more unlocked phones are sold and permeate throughout Europe they will have to fix this or lose even more credibility.

If T-Mobile want to sell unlocked phones then they will have to drop the price, no way will people in Germany buy them when they can get for 250EUR less in France. Can be that they don't want to sell them of course and they just set the price high to comply with the law.

It would be quite funny if the bulk of the sales in France are unlocked phones :D

I work for a very large Belgian telco...

morespce54
Nov 28, 2007, 03:35 PM
...It would be quite funny if the bulk of the sales in France are unlocked phones :D

Indeed! Imagine peoples from Germany buying French iPhone and getting on a the cheapest T-Mobile (German) package... ;):D
i wonder what would be the reactions of both Apple and T-Mobile (German)...:rolleyes:

apachie2k
Nov 28, 2007, 05:07 PM
the whole world will be buying from france for unlocked phones, while the price is very high, it's still attainable for some...

Nym
Nov 28, 2007, 05:44 PM
Is it my feeling or the iPhone is giving Apple a whole lot of problems? :o

I must say, if the legally unlocked iPhone doesn't work with every sim card available then Apple will face some consequences.
Aside lawsuits, I think the most important thing is that Apple is pretty much seen as a premium high quality brand in most European countries and if the problems start to appear even before the iPhone reaches some countries (like mine, Portugal) it's going to kill a lot of first month sales because of the negative buzz, besides, the tech informed people will start doubting Apple's quality regarding cellphones and just go and buy a "safer choice" brand (nokia, SE, samsung, LG).

Seriously, it's my firm belief that the iPhone will never reach the iPod status/marketshare within the cellphone market until it becomes fully unlocked and available to anyone at a reasonable price.

I'm patiently waiting for it to arrive here, I just hope that it's soon enough so I can get the non 3G upcoming version. For my use, 3G is 100% unnecessary, the only thing that it adds is the battery sucking leech :)

MacBoySeattle
Nov 28, 2007, 05:47 PM
You want to see how insignificant Apple and its little fancy toy phone known as the iphone are in the wireless industry? Check put this link:

http://mobile.pcworld.com/htmlsite/html_article.php?id=1&CALL_URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcworld.com%2Farticle%2Fid%2C140013-pg%2C1%2Farticle.html

Hahaha Nokia sold over 100 million phones just in Q3, Samsung about 40 million. Apple is so insignificant it doesn't even rank. Do you realize now that your Jesus phone really means jack ***** and has virtually no marketshare? Heh just like a Mac, insignificant in sales, overpriced, and filled with fancy graphics and a rabid if stupid fan base who thinks its more important than it is. I laugh at the poor fools who pay 400 Euro let alone 800 Euro.

Di9it8
Nov 28, 2007, 06:57 PM
Get yourself down to St Pancras, get the Eurostar, make a weekend of it :)

Now thats a very good idea:D:D
Vive la France;)

Di9it8
Nov 28, 2007, 07:03 PM
.... the lawsuit would be eminent.

Do you mean imminent;)

Di9it8
Nov 28, 2007, 07:08 PM
I'm on Orange UK and I'm wondering if that would work ok?

I have an Orange Uk phone and a Swiss Orange phone, and I get no beneficial rates when I use Orange in France, in fact the Swiss Orange service has to be locked otherwise my account is bled dry.:eek:

jer293
Nov 28, 2007, 08:08 PM
It was consequential enough for you to wast time posting your rubbish. Sure nokia sold 100 million phones with margins approaching just above break even. Think of this when apple has 10 million phones sold which won't be long at this rate they will be getting roughly $11-12 dollars a month(pure profit), more or less they are becoming a carrier without the overhead. Eat your heart out nokia.

Stella
Nov 28, 2007, 08:15 PM
It was consequential enough for you to wast time posting your rubbish. Sure nokia sold 100 million phones with margins approaching just above break even. Think of this when apple has 10 million phones sold which won't be long at this rate they will be getting roughly $11-12 dollars a month(pure profit), more or less they are becoming a carrier without the overhead. Eat your heart out nokia.


At what rate? So far the indications have been the iPhone has been selling poorly in Europe. They won't break 10 million any time soon. Nokia sell more than twice that amount of smartphones in a quarter ( and sales are increasing year on year ).

Apple have work to do. I can't imagine that Apple will ever be a big cell phone player - unless they release cheaper phones at cheaper rates ; Like their PCs, cell phones will be a niche product ( although I think the PCs are very very good, overall ) otherwise.

Although his post came over a tad harsh, it contains the cold hard truth ( though amongst smartphones, Apple rank around 1% which is pretty good after 6 months ).

cameronjpu
Nov 28, 2007, 10:07 PM
Not a chance - I tried one in the Apple shop, and Internet is just too slow. It's a phone AND a web device, with the web crawling away. Nope, I will resist temptation and wait for the 3G model and availability across telecoms.

Heh, you found the only Apple store without Wifi?

cameronjpu
Nov 28, 2007, 10:17 PM
At what rate? So far the indications have been the iPhone has been selling poorly in Europe. They won't break 10 million any time soon. Nokia sell more than twice that amount of smartphones in a quarter ( and sales are increasing year on year ).

Apple have work to do. I can't imagine that Apple will ever be a big cell phone player - unless they release cheaper phones at cheaper rates ; Like their PCs, cell phones will be a niche product ( although I think the PCs are very very good, overall ) otherwise.

Although his post came over a tad harsh, it contains the cold hard truth ( though amongst smartphones, Apple rank around 1% which is pretty good after 6 months ).

Don't you get it? Apple does not want to be a big cell phone player any more than they want to be a big PC player. The beauty of the top 10% of the market is that the pay premium prices for premium goods. The other 90% of the market wants cheap cheap cheap. So while Dell sells 20% of the PCs on the market for around $500 each, how many Macs do you figure get sold for $500?

The money is in the high end!

Matti
Nov 28, 2007, 10:34 PM
It was consequential enough for you to wast time posting your rubbish. Sure nokia sold 100 million phones with margins approaching just above break even. Think of this when apple has 10 million phones sold which won't be long at this rate they will be getting roughly $11-12 dollars a month(pure profit), more or less they are becoming a carrier without the overhead. Eat your heart out nokia.

Post you replied was bad trolling, but still that's no excuse to post rubbish. Nokia's profit margins per phone are actully very good (over 20%), and they make billions and billions in profit every year. 5,5 billion € in 2006 (rougly 7,4 billion dollars).

iPie
Nov 29, 2007, 03:47 AM
Don't you get it? Apple does not want to be a big cell phone player any more than they want to be a big PC player. The beauty of the top 10% of the market is that the pay premium prices for premium goods. The other 90% of the market wants cheap cheap cheap. So while Dell sells 20% of the PCs on the market for around $500 each, how many Macs do you figure get sold for $500?

The money is in the high end!

Actually, I don't see how one can call the iPhone "high-end" without 3G.

More like "fashion-victim".:rolleyes:

But you are absolutely right, Apple should get it's margins where it can, and it that's in the beautiful 10% of the market, I am happy to see the beauties separated from their premium cash.

I just hope these profits drive down prices for the rest of us in the "cheap, cheap, cheap - high-end" of the market.

Stella
Nov 29, 2007, 04:20 AM
Riiiiiight, and of course, you believe everything that comes out of Apple don't you. The reason Apple say this is because they aren't a more significant player in the PC market. They are positioning themselves in the PC market. If Apple weren't selling a boat load of iPods as they are now, they'd be saying the same about iPods, but no, SJ specifically states that iPod is #1 and are very happy to be #1.

Given a choice of selling ( at the same price points and contract rates ) the below number of iPhones per year, which do you think Apple would choose?
a) 100,000,000
b) 5,000,000

Do you think Apple would would choose (b)? No, of course not, they'd rather the larger quantity (a) to maximise their profits. If Apple could sell 100 million at cheaper price, they'd make a lot of profit that selling 5 million at the current price point.

I completely get it - I completely understand why Apple _say_ they don't want to a big PC player - and its for the above reason - they are positioning themselves. Apple would love to be the #1 ( but thats not happening anytime soon, probably never) or have a much higher marketshare. Whilst Apple continue to be a minor player, marketshare wise, you'll always hear such statements coming from Apple.

Don't you get it? Apple does not want to be a big cell phone player any more than they want to be a big PC player. The beauty of the top 10% of the market is that the pay premium prices for premium goods. The other 90% of the market wants cheap cheap cheap. So while Dell sells 20% of the PCs on the market for around $500 each, how many Macs do you figure get sold for $500?

The money is in the high end!

Padraig
Nov 29, 2007, 05:25 AM
Don't you get it? Apple does not want to be a big cell phone player any more than they want to be a big PC player. The beauty of the top 10% of the market is that the pay premium prices for premium goods. The other 90% of the market wants cheap cheap cheap. So while Dell sells 20% of the PCs on the market for around $500 each, how many Macs do you figure get sold for $500?

The money is in the high end!

That has to be the most ludicrous post i've ever read on Macumors.

takao
Nov 29, 2007, 06:18 AM
Don't you get it? Apple does not want to be a big cell phone player any more than they want to be a big PC player. The beauty of the top 10% of the market is that the pay premium prices for premium goods. The other 90% of the market wants cheap cheap cheap. So while Dell sells 20% of the PCs on the market for around $500 each, how many Macs do you figure get sold for $500?

The money is in the high end!

seriously i think apple would be much happier to sell 350 millions/year like Nokia than to sell 4 millions/year (so far 2 million sold within half a year)

10% of the worldwide phone market means more like 90 million

apple is not even at half a percent marketshare

twoodcc
Nov 29, 2007, 06:28 AM
dang, it sure is expensive in France!

Steflinsky
Nov 29, 2007, 08:54 AM
Bonjour,

je voulait exprimé ma grande deception de devoire acheter mon iphone chez orange... avec toute la propagante publicitaire et machinerie qui va avec ... je pensse que ce n'est vraiment pas le meilleur reseaux en france et en europe d'ailleurs... et de plus on se souvient avez sortie une pub sur 1984 etc.... (il aurait du l'appeler 2007 en faite)


25 ans après on y est .... orange je le rappel fait partie de france telecom.... et connait la competnece technique de se groupe que appartient a l'etat francais (je voulait dire qui est le reflet de l'etat francais surtout)

c est pour moi une attaque claire et net contre les autres operateurs ... beaucoup plus performant que orange...

a bonne entendeur

Salut

I remember one day... i have problem with my power book on PANTHER and the orange technician said it's your mac you need to reinstall safari.!!!!... bye...lol

Orange is very stupid and he unknow totaly waht is a mac

heyyyy i'am born the 29 novembre 1977
I have 30 !!!!!

cameronjpu
Nov 29, 2007, 09:18 AM
Given a choice of selling ( at the same price points and contract rates ) the below number of iPhones per year, which do you think Apple would choose?
a) 100,000,000
b) 5,000,000

Duh!

But it is not possible to sell that many phones (the same argument applies to computers) at the same price points and contract rates. Nokia certainly doesn't. The market for a high end product is small, and Apple does not want to sell a low end product and have all the headaches associated with it. There's tons of revenue in the low end, but not profit.

Macintosheux
Nov 29, 2007, 06:39 PM
Bonjour,

je voulait exprimé ma grande deception de devoire acheter mon iphone chez orange... avec toute la propagante publicitaire et machinerie qui va avec ... je pensse que ce n'est vraiment pas le meilleur reseaux en france et en europe d'ailleurs... et de plus on se souvient avez sortie une pub sur 1984 etc.... (il aurait du l'appeler 2007 en faite)


25 ans après on y est .... orange je le rappel fait partie de france telecom.... et connait la competnece technique de se groupe que appartient a l'etat francais (je voulait dire qui est le reflet de l'etat francais surtout)

c est pour moi une attaque claire et net contre les autres operateurs ... beaucoup plus performant que orange...

a bonne entendeur

Salut

I remember one day... i have problem with my power book on PANTHER and the orange technician said it's your mac you need to reinstall safari.!!!!... bye...lol

Orange is very stupid and he unknow totaly waht is a mac

heyyyy i'am born the 29 novembre 1977
I have 30 !!!!!

I'm French too, but please, when you are on an English-speaking board, don't speak French ! Furthermore you made so many mistakes (in both languages) that I guess almost nobody understood what you meant.

http://forum.macbidouille.com/ is a great French forum.

Happy birthday anyway ! :)

Steflinsky
Dec 1, 2007, 12:17 PM
I'm French too, but please, when you are on an English-speaking board, don't speak French ! Furthermore you made so many mistakes (in both languages) that I guess almost nobody understood what you meant.

http://forum.macbidouille.com/ is a great French forum.

Happy birthday anyway ! :)

you need to study the french... like i study you english... i ivint you in france.

and for macbidouilles it's a joke?

steph

John Musbach
Dec 1, 2007, 07:18 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Orange announced (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/11474/12498/french-orange-iphone-plans-revealed.phtml) pricing for the iPhone in France today.

Orange will be selling the iPhone for 399 euro along with one of four plans with prices ranging from 49 euros to 119 euros per month. All plans include unlimited internet and visual voicemail.

Customers who don't wish to subscribe to those particular plans can instead pay 549 euro and use another Orange plan. Finally for 649 euro, customers can purchase an iPhone with no required contract or obligation to Orange. The iPhone itself, however, will still need to be unlocked. With all options (399, 549, 649 euro), any customer may unlock the iPhone for an addition 100 euro during the first six months. After six months, the iPhone may be unlocked for free in accordance with French law.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/28/orange-announces-iphone-france-and-unlocking-options/)

This is pretty cool, now if only we could get someone from Germany or France to export these unlocked iPhones to the US :D

ABM
Dec 2, 2007, 07:08 AM
This is pretty cool, now if only we could get someone from Germany or France to export these unlocked iPhones to the US :D

That doesn't make any sense... 649 € = 947.54 USD (@ current exchange rate: 1.46)