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MacRumors
Nov 28, 2007, 04:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Yahoo News reports (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20071128/tc_infoworld/93687;_ylt=AmMg0sm.owTxRvr38gJ3LAwxVrIF) that Intel has upgraded its software development tools (http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/227389.htm) today, introducing support for Mac OS X Leopard as well as their new Penryn processors.
The Intel Software Development Products for Mac OS X includes updated compilers and libraries for development environments like C, C++ and Fortran that optimize applications to take advantage of features in Intel's latest 64-bit multicore processors, said James Reinders, director of marketing for Intel's software development products division.
The new tools can also take advantage of the new SSE4 instruction set (http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture-silicon/sse4-instructions/index.htm) that debuted with the Penryn processors.

Intel first announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/intel-announces-45-nm-penryn-processors/) the 45-nm Penryn processors on November 12th, 2007, with the first batch of Penryn processors focusing on the higher end server-class Xeon processors. Apple has been rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/05/apple-buying-up-high-end-penryn-processors/) to be buying up the high end 3.2GHz Penryn Xeon processors which feature a faster 1600MHz bus and 12MB of L2 cache for an upcoming Mac Pro revision. Apple currently uses the previous generation Xeon Woodcrest (Quad core Macs) or Xeon Clovertown (8-core Macs) processors in their Mac Pros.

Mobile versions (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/15/intel-demos-next-generation-mobile-processor/) of the Penryn processor are not expected until January 2008.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/28/intel-updates-mac-os-x-development-tools-with-penryn-support/)



bensiebro
Nov 28, 2007, 04:06 PM
It's really time for Apple to release these new Mac Pro's.

Eidorian
Nov 28, 2007, 04:09 PM
Now this is something interesting for those poor Mac Pro waiters.

Raid
Nov 28, 2007, 04:10 PM
It's really time for Apple to release these new Mac Pro's. If they haven't released them by now they won't release them till MacWorld in January.

deathshrub
Nov 28, 2007, 04:11 PM
If they haven't released them by now they won't release them till MacWorld in January.

His point still stands. They will be overdue in Jan. :p

diamond.g
Nov 28, 2007, 04:11 PM
Does the xcode toolset use foreign compilers?

sdschwendener
Nov 28, 2007, 04:15 PM
Hell yes!@

TheSpecialist
Nov 28, 2007, 04:20 PM
Expect Macworld. Macword 2008 will be truly interesting!!!

emotion
Nov 28, 2007, 04:20 PM
Now Apple, bring on that T8100 2.1GHz 12" powerbook replacment.

Clive At Five
Nov 28, 2007, 04:33 PM
It's really time for Apple to release these new Mac Pro's.

Apple has been past due to release Mac Pros (or at least offer a price drop) for a good year now...

-Clive

dizastor
Nov 28, 2007, 04:35 PM
Now this is something interesting for those poor Mac Pro waiters.

Mac Pro waiters only make minimum wage, but I hear they make great tips! :rolleyes:


Anyone else think there may be a tower/ACD redesign coming with this processor update? Seems like otherwise it'd be out already.

andy721
Nov 28, 2007, 04:36 PM
The successor to Penryn, based on a new post-Core microarchitecture which features the return of hyperthreading, is Nehalem; it was discussed at the September 2007 IDF meeting, though the release date is not until the end of 2008.
The 32 nm shrink of Nehalem is called Westmere; provided that Intel stays on target with its roadmap, Sandy Bridge will be released at 32 nm with a newer microarchitecture around 2010.[45] In 2011, Intel will launch its first processor based on a 22 nm process. Based on Intel's cycle alternating new architectures and die shrinks every two years, it is currently assumed that this will be a shrink of Sandy Bridge.[46]

MrCrowbar
Nov 28, 2007, 04:38 PM
Safari on Leopard is really kinda slow and sluggish. What gives? Gimme Safari 2 back. :mad:

mrkramer
Nov 28, 2007, 04:44 PM
If they haven't released them by now they won't release them till MacWorld in January.

Not necessarily, they may just be waiting until the processors are available in enough quantity to actually ship the computers. If you look at the other companies that have announced Penryn in their computers none or vey few are shipping yet.

cthorp
Nov 28, 2007, 04:44 PM
I've been checking macrumors regularly (compulsively) waiting to hear when I can upgrade my dual G5. I need speed!!! I work with large PSD files and my G5 is showing it's age. I am almost using my 2.4 MacBook Pro exclusively until I can get a new Mac Pro.

mward333
Nov 28, 2007, 04:44 PM
The successor to Penryn, based on a new post-Core microarchitecture which features the return of hyperthreading, is Nehalem; it was discussed at the September 2007 IDF meeting, though the release date is not until the end of 2008.
The 32 nm shrink of Nehalem is called Westmere; provided that Intel stays on target with its roadmap, Sandy Bridge will be released at 32 nm with a newer microarchitecture around 2010.[45] In 2011, Intel will launch its first processor based on a 22 nm process. Based on Intel's cycle alternating new architectures and die shrinks every two years, it is currently assumed that this will be a shrink of Sandy Bridge.[46]

You can't just say stuff like that on this forum. People on Macrumors are sooooo hesitant to buy--making 100 percent sure that they won't buy at the wrong time--you'll have people waiting until 2011 to make the plunge! ROFL

darthraige
Nov 28, 2007, 04:44 PM
Apple needs to step it up. This is starting to get ridiculous. If they can do it now, they should just do it now and not wait until January. Leave January for newer never before seen or heard of stuff. Sheesh. :D I'm telling you, Apple's home page will change soon with the new MacPro smack dab in the middle with every other product around it for a nice Holiday line-up, leaving January for NEW stuff and not just a traditional UPDATE!

HLdan
Nov 28, 2007, 04:48 PM
It might... on yet unreleased Mac Pros. But seriously, Safari on Leopard is really kinda slow and sluggish. What gives? Gimme Safari 2 back. :mad:

Well that might apply to only a few. Safari is lightening fast on Leopard. I have a new iMac. Safari launches instantaneously from a cold boot and surfs faster than any browser I have used. I've been using Safari since inception and it's never ran better or faster than with Leopard. :)

mcarnes
Nov 28, 2007, 04:58 PM
Looking forward to the next MPs. Add blu-ray and a slightly smaller form factor, and some new CDs with isight. Hell. Yeah.

JesterJJZ
Nov 28, 2007, 05:04 PM
Looking forward to the next MPs. Add blu-ray and a slightly smaller form factor, and some new CDs with isight. Hell. Yeah.

Smaller form factor? I want more internal drives please!

Mr Skills
Nov 28, 2007, 05:05 PM
Does the xcode toolset use foreign compilers?

Yes. I believe they are French.
Sorry.

Stridder44
Nov 28, 2007, 05:06 PM
You can't just say stuff like that on this forum. People on Macrumors are sooooo hesitant to buy--making 100 percent sure that they won't buy at the wrong time--you'll have people waiting until 2011 to make the plunge! ROFL


Yeah, buying right now is a great idea. You definitely won't kick yourself in the teeth come January.

centauratlas
Nov 28, 2007, 05:09 PM
I doubt that Apple would release updates to anything this close to Christmas. It would be too confusing to the consumer (even though the Mac Pros are targeted to the pro market, they still sell plenty elsewhere). Likewise, channel issues etc.

I could be wrong, but my bet is Jan. Unfortunately, because I am waiting to replace my 3.75 year old G5. :-)

Not necessarily, they may just be waiting until the processors are available in enough quantity to actually ship the computers. If you look at the other companies that have announced Penryn in their computers none or vey few are shipping yet.

mward333
Nov 28, 2007, 05:17 PM
Yeah, buying right now is a great idea. You definitely won't kick yourself in the teeth come January.

I must admit--now is a terrible time to buy! :) That is obvious.

My point is this: We'll probably see an update in January, and that's the time to make the next plunge. (Don't wait until 2011.)

I promise (guaranteed!) that some people will complain in January (or whenever the next update occurs) and just say that they are waiting for the next big thing. That's my point. Some people are always waiting, even when they see an update, they just wait for the next update.

I intended my post to be lighthearted. I agree: if you buy now, you will hate yourself when the Mac Pro is updated, which is (hopefully) soon!

cgc
Nov 28, 2007, 05:21 PM
Can't wait for new Peryn MacPros with ATI Rage 128 cards in them :)

mdriftmeyer
Nov 28, 2007, 05:41 PM
Does the xcode toolset use foreign compilers?

Xcode 3 and prior comes with the GCC Compiler collection minus Ada, GFortran and Java from the GNU Foundation.

http://gcc.gnu.org/

It includes the C/C++/ObjC/ObjC++ .

Xcode is designed to be Compiler Agnostic.

With Xcode 3 comes the inclusion of the LLVM (Low Level Virtual Machine)
http://www.llvm.org/

The initial research and development of LLVM was sponsored by the National Science Foundation (NSF) NSF Next Generation Software program through grants EIA-0093426 (an NSF CAREER award) and EIA-0103756. It was also supported in part by the University of Illinois, other NSF grants, the MARCO/DARPA Gigascale Systems Research Center (GSRC), and the Motorola University Partnerships in Research program.

LLVM has since "graduated" from research funding to largely industry funding. The continued development and support of LLVM is funded by [B]Apple Inc., the NSF, the University of Illinois, AutoESL Design Technologies, Inc., and others. Please send us email if you would like your company added to this list. LLVM has also benefited greatly from numerous source code contributions from other individuals, listed here.

Features as of LLVM 2.1:

http://www.llvm.org/Features.html

The next version features:

http://www.llvm.org/docs/ReleaseNotes.html

GCC 4.2 and upcoming Fortran and Ada compiler support.

LLVM 2.1 brings two new beta C front-ends. First, a new version of llvm-gcc based on GCC 4.2, innovatively called "llvm-gcc-4.2". This promises to bring FORTRAN and Ada support to LLVM as well as features like atomic builtins and OpenMP. None of these actually work yet, but don't let that stop you checking it out!

Second, LLVM now includes its own native C and Objective-C front-end (C++ is in progress, but is not very far along) code named "clang". This front-end has a number of great features, primarily aimed at source-level analysis and speeding up compile-time. At this point though, the LLVM Code Generator component is still very early in development, so it's mostly useful for people looking to build source-level analysis tools or source-to-source translators.


Basically, LLVM will become the preferred language collection low level virtual machine solution for Apple.

Intel releases it's own C/C++ compilers, but not the ObjC/ObjC++ which Apple owns.

The LLVM system is also not tied to Apple. Its positioning itself as a viable alternative/companion to the GCC collection.

Apple utilized LLVM to optimize its OpenGL implementation.

A growing list of corporations are using it:

http://www.llvm.org/Users.html

Apple has several of its compiler engineers working on it.

lazyrighteye
Nov 28, 2007, 05:45 PM
Hoping a form factor update will accompany this new processor...

ZrSiO4-Zircon
Nov 28, 2007, 05:48 PM
Can't wait for new Peryn MacPros with ATI Rage 128 cards in them :)

Hahaha, Rage 128....
Curious though, does Leopard support Rage 128? if not, know anyone that's running Leopard on one?

EagerDragon
Nov 28, 2007, 05:48 PM
The successor to Penryn, based on a new post-Core microarchitecture which features the return of hyperthreading, is Nehalem; it was discussed at the September 2007 IDF meeting, though the release date is not until the end of 2008.
The 32 nm shrink of Nehalem is called Westmere; provided that Intel stays on target with its roadmap, Sandy Bridge will be released at 32 nm with a newer microarchitecture around 2010.[45] In 2011, Intel will launch its first processor based on a 22 nm process. Based on Intel's cycle alternating new architectures and die shrinks every two years, it is currently assumed that this will be a shrink of Sandy Bridge.[46]

I guess ill have to wait for the new model coming in 2011.

egsaxy
Nov 28, 2007, 05:51 PM
a new form factor would be nice.

psychofreak
Nov 28, 2007, 05:52 PM
a new form factor would be nice.
I'm lovin' the current one, but if Apple choose to change it (and its been a long time coming) then I'm sure they'll do well with it...

mward333
Nov 28, 2007, 05:53 PM
I guess ill have to wait for the new model coming in 2011.

Although I was joking about 2011 too, I can understand people getting impatient.

An update for the Mac Pro does seem to be overdue!

Well, we all do love to wait and anticipate... That's one of the reasons we love to read the predictions on Macrumors!

SpinThis!
Nov 28, 2007, 05:54 PM
Smaller form factor? I want more internal drives please!
You both are crazy! How many drives do you need? 4 internal and 2 optical should be enough for virtually any application...And if that's not enough, plug in another stack or 2 via USB or Firewire...

My bet is on January as well. Looks Apple is going to refresh virtually everything in the lineup.

mward333
Nov 28, 2007, 05:57 PM
Looks Apple is going to refresh virtually everything in the lineup.

Those are the kind of things that we all hope for.... and then inevitably get disappointed!

jeffreyk
Nov 28, 2007, 06:06 PM
I've been checking macrumors regularly (compulsively) waiting to hear when I can upgrade my dual G5. I need speed!!! I work with large PSD files and my G5 is showing it's age. I am almost using my 2.4 MacBook Pro exclusively until I can get a new Mac Pro.

I do the same thing every day; and the term "compulsive" in this context is quite an understatement. My current computer is a custom-built PC I've had for about 3 years now, I've only used PCs my entire life, and I finally saw the light and I am going to make the switch to the Mac Pro. My brother is a graphic design artist and has been using Macs his entire life and has finally convinced me to make the switch to Apple.

As soon as the new Mac Pros are announced and available I'll be getting my new computer. So, please, c'mon and release these new Mac Pros sooner than later! :D

Cheers,
Jeff

suneohair
Nov 28, 2007, 06:23 PM
How would a new product close to Christmas be "confusing" for the consumer? That doesn't make sense at all. I think it has more to do with the tax year coming to an end, if we are looking to explain why Apple doesn't release things close to Christmas.

You both are crazy! How many drives do you need? 4 internal and 2 optical should be enough for virtually any application...And if that's not enough, plug in another stack or 2 via USB or Firewire...

My bet is on January as well. Looks Apple is going to refresh virtually everything in the lineup.

Yes because we all want drives hanging off our desktop... Not to say 4 hard drives isn't enough, but there is nothing wrong with having more if they can fit them in. You also shouldn't attempt to limit people because you think it is enough for any application. Maybe in your mind, but clearly not so much for others.

HDproducer
Nov 28, 2007, 06:31 PM
I know it has been said before, but Mac Pro is a business machine. I plan on replacing my G5 as soon as the new pros come out. But it would be nice to get the tax right off this year.

Did anyone else get the year end tax write off email from Apple? If They want me to spend money this year, then give me something worth spending my money on.

And don't get your panties in a wad, I know the current model is great, but lets get on with the new.

darthraige
Nov 28, 2007, 06:34 PM
I doubt that Apple would release updates to anything this close to Christmas. It would be too confusing to the consumer (even though the Mac Pros are targeted to the pro market, they still sell plenty elsewhere).

Do you think the average consumer really knows that the chips have been switched out of the MacBooks with Santa Rosa? I think not. That and I bet the average consumer wouldn't even know what "Santa Rosa" meant. I could see a MacPro update being silent, IF it comes out before January.

EagerDragon
Nov 28, 2007, 07:36 PM
Do you think the average consumer really knows that the chips have been switched out of the MacBooks with Santa Rosa? I think not. That and I bet the average consumer wouldn't even know what "Santa Rosa" meant. I could see a MacPro update being silent, IF it comes out before January.

I am really curious as to what Apple plans to release at the keynote in Jan. Most refreshes don't deserve a keynote, it has to be something new and exciting or its going to be a boring show.

3D-Troll
Nov 28, 2007, 07:59 PM
You both are crazy! How many drives do you need? 4 internal and 2 optical should be enough for virtually any application...And if that's not enough, plug in another stack or 2 via USB or Firewire...

My bet is on January as well. Looks Apple is going to refresh virtually everything in the lineup.

Six drives - five for a Raid 5 plus one hot spare. This is a professional machine so some speed and security for the disk would be nice.

Steffen

KindredMAC
Nov 28, 2007, 08:54 PM
I've been checking macrumors regularly (compulsively) waiting to hear when I can upgrade my dual G5. I need speed!!! I work with large PSD files and my G5 is showing it's age. I am almost using my 2.4 MacBook Pro exclusively until I can get a new Mac Pro.

What PMG5 are you using and how much RAM is in it?

I use a Dual Processor 1.8 G5/4GB RAM at work and own a Dual Core 2.0 G5/3GB RAM here at home, run CS3 Design Premium on both with Ps, Il and Fl all open at the same time, tearing through print resolution PSDs all day long and the only slow down I notice at work is from the retarded Active Directory set up our IT dept has us going through for the servers.

I love the fact that the last two gens of PMG5's can keep up with the Mac Pros as long as you have enough RAM and your video cards are solid.

But it is time for a form factor change to shrink it slightly but I do like the idea of adding one more HDD bay for 5 total. Also need to make a BD-R or HD-DVD option for that second optical bay. Wouldn't even mind seeing Bluetooth finally become standard. I can see AirPort not being standard but with the amount of BT products out there from Keyboards to Mice to Tablets to Cell Phones, we need that feature in the pro design world.

gugy
Nov 28, 2007, 09:24 PM
I know it has been said before, but Mac Pro is a business machine. I plan on replacing my G5 as soon as the new pros come out. But it would be nice to get the tax right off this year.



That's is what I thought was going to happen. Since no update in November, I feel that they indeed will announce it at MWSF. That also makes me believe we will see redesign enclosures and ACDs.

I am also looking for a tax right off, but I guess not for this year unfortunately.

I just hope it happens by January. If not I am going to be very disappointed. I am so tired of waiting.:mad:

mcarnes
Nov 28, 2007, 10:33 PM
Yes. I believe they are French.
Sorry.

That crazy Bertrand Serlet, always has to dip his fingers into everything.

dAlen
Nov 29, 2007, 01:50 AM
I guess ill have to wait for the new model coming in 2011.

Do you think they will finally release those Powerbook G5s by then. ;)
Well, at least they might finally get the 3Ghz that IBM promised around 2004. :)

Peace

dAlen

snowleopard
Nov 29, 2007, 04:44 AM
Well, the new compact Mac Books with LED screens will be released at MWSF. Very likely to see new displays there too. As will likely new iTV, iPhone, iTunes, and other consumer based products. After all, MW is a consumer based trade show.

As to the argument that Apple won't announce MacPro between now and the end of the year being confusing, obviously Dell didn't feel that way, announcing their Penryn's yesterday.

If they wait until MWSF, the only two main products not being upgraded in Jan in some way will be the iMac, and the (soon to be discontinued) Mini.

There are two other factors at play here. First is that they'll likely release when they have enough chips, AND enough of their redesign complete to ship. This means all the new configurations ready to go. The longer the wait, the more likely to see more significant upgrades. Not just to Penryn, but video cards (obviously), BluRay, and other cool options.

The other factor to remember is that Apple did take a while to release Woodcrest. So it is possible that they will wait not until MWSF to release the MacPro's, but weeks, or months afterwards. Not likely, but possible. We could be waiting until March, or April at NAB to see the new, fully upgraded and overhauled Penryn MacPro...

centauratlas
Nov 29, 2007, 05:31 AM
No, not at all, which was the point. The average consumer has no idea what is inside so Apple can sell older machines without many people even knowing - at higher margins due to component price drops.

Do you think the average consumer really knows that the chips have been switched out of the MacBooks with Santa Rosa? I think not. That and I bet the average consumer wouldn't even know what "Santa Rosa" meant. I could see a MacPro update being silent, IF it comes out before January.

First, Apple's tax year is not the same as ours (http://www.apple.com/investor/). Second, many companies do not operated on a calendar year tax year, so you talking only about individuals. Third, you and I are not the typical consumer. Product changes are inevitably confusing to many people and most companies will not update products this close to a big buying time in case of problems, channel issues, availability and to avoid confusion about the differences between new and old products etc.

I'll be getting an 8 core, RAID etc machine when they are available.

How would a new product close to Christmas be "confusing" for the consumer? That doesn't make sense at all. I think it has more to do with the tax year coming to an end, if we are looking to explain why Apple doesn't release things close to Christmas.



Yes because we all want drives hanging off our desktop... Not to say 4 hard drives isn't enough, but there is nothing wrong with having more if they can fit them in. You also shouldn't attempt to limit people because you think it is enough for any application. Maybe in your mind, but clearly not so much for others.

DarthTreydor
Nov 29, 2007, 05:37 AM
if the whole line is going 8 core then there is no way it will be a silent update. even the average consumer can understand that 8 cores are a lot better than 4.

madmax_2069
Nov 29, 2007, 06:12 AM
It might... on yet unreleased Mac Pros. But seriously, Safari on Leopard is really kinda slow and sluggish. What gives? Gimme Safari 2 back. :mad:


i think its due to a memory leak, i know its a memory leak, Yes i only have 768mb ram in my DA G4 but when i first start my Mac and open xchat and safari (on Apple's site) i have at least 400+mb of ram remaining, after a few hours of use with 1 safari window and xchat open i have only 20mb of ram remaining, this is with no tabs and on Apple's site.

even quitting safari and reopening it i still have only 20mb or so left of available ram. when it gets to this point the HDD starts going into swapping fits and slows down the entire OS. i have had activity monitor open and at random times there is a background prosess called find (with the username of nobody) that kicks in for a few minutes and takes like 60% of the cpu time.

i haven't had these issues in Tiger (mainly cause its mature), but Leopard is still immature yet and has a bit of bugs to be fixed.

but anyway safari should not be this slow on a intel Mac (especially a intel Mac) or G5 or G4.

twoodcc
Nov 29, 2007, 06:27 AM
maybe this is a good sign for the mac pro? :apple:

Schtumple
Nov 29, 2007, 06:47 AM
Be nice to see a completely overhauled Mac Pro as well as some new chips, the technology inside the current models is practically retro now :p

MrCrowbar
Nov 29, 2007, 07:26 AM
i think its due to a memory leak, i know its a memory leak, Yes i only have 768mb ram in my DA G4 but when i first start my Mac and open xchat and safari (on Apple's site) i have at least 400+mb of ram remaining, after a few hours of use with 1 safari window and xchat open i have only 20mb of ram remaining, this is with no tabs and on Apple's site.

even quitting safari and reopening it i still have only 20mb or so left of available ram. when it gets to this point the HDD starts going into swapping fits and slows down the entire OS. i have had activity monitor open and at random times there is a background prosess called find (with the username of nobody) that kicks in for a few minutes and takes like 60% of the cpu time.

i haven't had these issues in Tiger (mainly cause its mature), but Leopard is still immature yet and has a bit of bugs to be fixed.

but anyway safari should not be this slow on a intel Mac (especially a intel Mac) or G5 or G4.

Yea, Safari has a big memory fooprint, but so has every browser. I have an intel Mac with 2GB of RAM. It still annoys me Safari freezes almost completely when one site isn't loading fast. I can't even scroll or switch tabs, it's beachball time all over.

Also, the desktop in Leopard is kinda broken. The files are there (I can see them when opening a Finder window), but they don't show on the desktop until I restart Finder. I know we should now use Stacks as messy drag and drop space, but it's so impractical... :(

AidenShaw
Nov 29, 2007, 07:28 AM
Well, the new compact Mac Books with LED screens will be released at MWSF.

That's only a rumour (Ultra-Portable Mac Expected at Macworld Expo 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/ultra-portable-mac-expected-at-macworld-expo-2008/)), not a fact.

The rumour has some red flags about its validity (such as using the conflicting phrases "ultra-portable" and "13 in. screen" in the description).


Very likely to see new displays there too.

Not even any good rumours on this, but the current displays haven't been updated in ages and are more expensive and technologically way behind the higher tier models available elsewhere.


As will likely new iTV, iPhone, iTunes, and other consumer based products. After all, MW is a consumer based trade show.

Consumer show? How do you explain:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4493913&postcount=176

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
http://support.apple.com/specs/

MWSF 2006 - MacBook Pro announced
MWSF 2004 - Xserve G5 and Xserve RAID (SFP) announced
MWSF 2003 - PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 2001 - PowerMac G4 and PowerBook G4 announced
MWSF 1999 - PowerMac G3 announced

It looks like the pattern is every other year for a Pro announcement - so MWSF 2008 is due!

Used to be that MacWorld (jan and late summer) were for all Macs, and WWDC was a little show for developers.

Then Jobs had the big hissy fit with IDG, and pulled out of the east coast summer MacWorld, saying "it's not necessary".

Of course, Apple's found out that it *is* needed, and has since been morphing WWDC into the summer MacWorld.

Anyway, when Apple has something to announce around January, it happens at MWSF - whether it's pro or consumer.


First is that they'll likely release when they have enough chips, AND enough of their redesign complete to ship. This means all the new configurations ready to go. The longer the wait, the more likely to see more significant upgrades. Not just to Penryn, but video cards (obviously), BluRay, and other cool options.

JIT ("just in time") should also apply to features - a new video card BTO option could be added at any time in a silent update.

It's insanely stupid to sell outdated systems for month after month just because you're waiting for a couple of minor options that might not even be interesting to the customers. (Do you need a Blu-ray in every machine in your render farm?)


The other factor to remember is that Apple did take a while to release Woodcrest. So it is possible that they will wait not until MWSF to release the MacPro's, but weeks, or months afterwards. Not likely, but possible. We could be waiting until March, or April at NAB to see the new, fully upgraded and overhauled Penryn MacPro...

If they wait until NAB, that will put the Mac Pro release *after* spring IDF - where Intel will be showing off all the new 16-core Nehalem-based workstations with the QuickPath crossbar memory interconnect.

I'd love to see the MacRumors threads if Apple introduced its first Penryn system after everyone's been wowed by Nehalem! :eek:

With Intel's roadmap showing a major bump every year, waiting six months to adopt Intel's latest isn't a good plan.

arkitect
Nov 29, 2007, 07:32 AM
I'd love to see the MacRumors threads if Apple introduced its first Penryn system after everyone's been wowed by Nehalem! :eek:


The way things are going you're probably right. :(

aliquis-
Nov 29, 2007, 07:43 AM
Just remove flash totally and you're done. To bad with youtube thought, but if iTunes get h264-youtube support it's all ok.

takao
Nov 29, 2007, 08:11 AM
If they wait until NAB, that will put the Mac Pro release *after* spring IDF - where Intel will be showing off all the new 16-core Nehalem-based workstations with the QuickPath crossbar memory interconnect.

and also quite interesting for the lower end are the oncoming CPU/GPU packaging in nehalem (one cpu /one gpu package just like the two dies for the 4 cores today)
amd has been developing on their "Fusion" architecture some while already too .. i wonder if intel can beat them to the market

and intel's quickpath definitly means bad news for AMD (who is still very popular because of this in the HPC cluster market)

G4DP
Nov 29, 2007, 08:33 AM
Won't Be Long, Give It A Week Or So.

AidenShaw
Nov 29, 2007, 08:56 AM
As to the argument that Apple won't announce MacPro between now and the end of the year being confusing, obviously Dell didn't feel that way, announcing their Penryns yesterday.

Dell is also out there with a Blu-ray option....

For those who won't type www.dell.com into Safari :) , here's a recap of the new systems that Dell has announced (they've basically refreshed the entire workstation line with Penryns).

Main Dell workstation page (http://www.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/workstations?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz)

Single Socket Mid-Tower Dell Precision T3400 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_t3400?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) (replaces the PW390)


Mid tower (70% size of Mac Pro)
CPU options from 1.8 GHz dual core to 3.0 GHz quad core (all Conroe/Kentsfield, Yorkfield QX6950 not offered yet)
Intel X38 chipset
1 GiB to 8 GiB RAM, ECC over 2 GiB
Graphics from nVidia NVS 290 (256MiB) to dual Quadro FX4600 (1.5 GiB total)
4 hard drive bays (BTO options to 2.5 TB), SAS option available
3 year warranty
Base price $1148, $2167 for quad-core 2.4GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB


Dual Socket Mid-Tower Dell Precision T5400 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_t5400?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) (replaces the PW490)


Mid tower (70% size of Mac Pro)
All quad core Penryn Harpertown, 1333 MHz bus
CPU options from single 2.0 GHz quad core to dual 3.16 GHz quad core
Intel 5400 (Seaburg) chipset
1 GiB to 32 GiB RAM, all ECC
Graphics from nVidia NVS 290 (256MiB) to dual Quadro FX4600 (1.5GiB total), or single nVidia Quadro FX5600 (1.5GiB)
Blu-ray optical option
3 hard drive bays (BTO options to 2.25 TB), SAS option available
3 year warranty
Base price $1717 -- $3027 for quad-core 2.5GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB --$3756 for octo-core 2.5GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB -- $5756 for octo-core 3.16GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB


Dual Socket Full-Tower Dell Precision T7400 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_t7400?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) (replaces the PW690)


All quad core Penryn Harpertown, 1600/1333 MHz bus
CPU options from single 2.0 GHz quad core to dual 3.16 GHz quad core and dual 3.2 GHz quad core
Intel 5400 (Seaburg) chipset
1 GiB to 64 GiB RAM, all ECC
Graphics from nVidia NVS 290 (256MiB) to dual nVidia Quadro FX5600 (3GiB total)
Blu-ray optical option
4 or 5 hard drive bays (BTO options to 4 TB), SAS option available
3 year warranty
Base price $1848 -- $3258 for quad-core 2.5GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB --$3987 for octo-core 2.5GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB -- $6909 for octo-core 3.2GHz, 4 GiB, 500 GB

joosteggink
Nov 29, 2007, 09:09 AM
I really hope apple introduce the macbook pro in januari i'm waiting for a month allready and i think it's a wasted of money to buy a macbook pro before januari.

and when is the next event of apple where they introduce products?

AidenShaw
Nov 29, 2007, 09:15 AM
I really hope apple introduce the macbook pro in januari i'm waiting for a month allready and i think it's a wasted of money to buy a macbook pro before januari.

and when is the next event of apple where they introduce products?

The next scheduled event would be the MacWorld keynote on 15 January, although Apple has made special press event announcements for products.

I wouldn't depend on new MacBook Pros shipping in mid-January.

The Penryn-mobile chips should be announced in January but, as we've seen with Penryn Xeons, there can be a month or two between "announced and a few systems shipping" and "whatever option you want is in stock". I would say that the start of March would be a more reasonable time to expect Penryn mobile systems to be shipping right away.

digitalbiker
Nov 29, 2007, 09:59 AM
The next scheduled event would be the MacWorld keynote on 15 January, although Apple has made special press event announcements for products.

I wouldn't depend on new MacBook Pros shipping in mid-January.

The Penryn-mobile chips should be announced in January but, as we've seen with Penryn Xeons, there can be a month or two between "announced and a few systems shipping" and "whatever option you want is in stock". I would say that the start of March would be a more reasonable time to expect Penryn mobile systems to be shipping right away.

It's always possible that Apple might demo a re-designed Penryn MacBookPro at MacWorld with a March shipping date.

In 2000, Apple released the PowerBook G4 Titanium and WOWED everyone with the new thin design. However the ship date was mid-March and most who ordered the day of the Keynote didn't get the PowerBook G4 until April.

In fact it used to be almost the de facto standard that Apple would announce but product wouldn't ship until 4 -6 weeks after the announcement.

Things have changed for the better recently except iPhone, which announced in January but didn't release until June.

poe
Nov 29, 2007, 10:07 AM
Now that the Adobe video suite is available for Mac, I was about to make the switch to a Mac Pro, but I can't wait around forever. I have some projects that are due soon. Dell is starting to look enticing.

monster620ie
Nov 29, 2007, 10:09 AM
I must admit--now is a terrible time to buy! :) That is obvious.

My point is this: We'll probably see an update in January, and that's the time to make the next plunge. (Don't wait until 2011.)

I promise (guaranteed!) that some people will complain in January (or whenever the next update occurs) and just say that they are waiting for the next big thing. That's my point. Some people are always waiting, even when they see an update, they just wait for the next update.

I intended my post to be lighthearted. I agree: if you buy now, you will hate yourself when the Mac Pro is updated, which is (hopefully) soon!

Are you guys talking about me? I have been waiting for so long (years). Each time I am about to get a new macbook pro, then I hear something new is coming up and so I wait and wait. I hate reading this forum sometimes :(
Ofcourse I realize there is always going to be updates.
This time Jan will be the one. Or will it !? :confused:

(my lonely 23' Apple Cinema is just staring at me and gathering dust after my laptop was stolen from my apartment year and half ago)

joosteggink
Nov 29, 2007, 10:23 AM
i really hope the update is in januari :)

AidenShaw
Nov 29, 2007, 10:34 AM
i really hope the update is in januari :)

Announced in January, shipping in March. :o

TripleCore
Nov 29, 2007, 10:59 AM
I don't know if Amazon is much of a barometer, but their 8-core is sold out and not available for 3-5 weeks. They have a few of the dual 2.66 on hand, but they're moving verrry slowly. Apple can wait, but their sales will be flat until they throw an update out there. Amazon also has rebates on these systems--trying to clear out stock or just offer more reasonable pricing for older technology? Apple can wait until January, but that's a month of lost revenues. There is lots of pent up demand (especially from G5 owners), so when they do finally announce, there will be lots of sales of these new systems.

Sleyn
Nov 29, 2007, 11:11 AM
if the whole line is going 8 core then there is no way it will be a silent update. even the average consumer can understand that 8 cores are a lot better than 4.

But for the average consumer, 8 cores isn't better. It's just more expensive.

digitalbiker
Nov 29, 2007, 11:23 AM
I have been waiting for so long (years). Each time I am about to get a new macbook pro, then I hear something new is coming up and so I wait and wait.
(my lonely 23' Apple Cinema is just staring at me and gathering dust after my laptop was stolen from my apartment year and half ago)

You have been without any laptop for over a year and you didn't buy a new one because of rumors of better equipment in a few months.

Sorry, but you need to stop reading so much into these rumors otherwise you will always be waiting!

I bought my mac pro octo back in June. By comments from many members of this rumor site it was a ridiculous purchase. The tech was supposedly not the best, the gpu was outdated, not SS, blah, blah, blah.

However by my standards this has been the best computer purchase I have ever made. The system is beautiful and runs most of my key apps 5-10 times faster than my previous hardware. With Intel Mac, I can take advantage of virtual machines, I have much more disk space, I can multi-task multiple apps without a drop in performance on any one app. The hardware is quiet and rocksolid. Even the GPU blows away any previous card I ever owned. On top of all that, there was no update just around the corner. Here I am 6 months later and Apple is still offering the same system. When the Penryn Mac Pro comes out I doubt if real would perfomance will beat my Octo by more than 20 percent.

So all I am saying is, unless you have another reason not to buy, don't wait for futureware. Evaluate your needs and buy the best currently available to satisfy those needs. Don't worry about obsolescence because it will happen no matter what you do. If you really need or want a MacBookPro, buy it now!! Don't wait until January. Most likely it won't be updated until March at the earliest. When it is eventually updated, it probably won't be as great an update as the rumor mills expect it to be anyway. In the meantime, you will be enjoying your MacBookPro for months while others are only dreaming of the next big update.

jeremyrader
Nov 29, 2007, 11:56 AM
Now that the Adobe video suite is available for Mac, I was about to make the switch to a Mac Pro, but I can't wait around forever. I have some projects that are due soon. Dell is starting to look enticing.

Now that GPS units are becoming more available as installed options on cars, I was about to make the switch to a new BMW, but i don't know if I want to wait until next Spring for the all-new 1-series. I am going on vacation soon. The Ford Focus is starting to look enticing.

...or I could be realistic...

gugy
Nov 29, 2007, 11:59 AM
Announced in January, shipping in March. :o

No way man.:eek: If it will be announce in January, Apple will ship it immediately.

madmax_2069
Nov 29, 2007, 09:55 PM
Yea, Safari has a big memory fooprint, but so has every browser. I have an intel Mac with 2GB of RAM. It still annoys me Safari freezes almost completely when one site isn't loading fast. I can't even scroll or switch tabs, it's beachball time all over.

Also, the desktop in Leopard is kinda broken. The files are there (I can see them when opening a Finder window), but they don't show on the desktop until I restart Finder. I know we should now use Stacks as messy drag and drop space, but it's so impractical... :(

yea i have seen that where safari gives you the beach-ball wile loading s site and totally freezes safari and makes it unresponsive to where you cant switch tabs scroll or anything else in safari, i would have thought it would not be that way with a dual core CPU in place, but you having a intel mac and have the same issues is just not right.

i wonder how long it will take Apple to fix safari, it seems like it isnt multi threaded as some would think. one would think that Apple would have fixed this beach-ball issue with safari by now. and you would think that safari would not show this behavior on a intel Mac

goosnarrggh
Nov 30, 2007, 06:42 AM
Does the xcode toolset use foreign compilers?

Just to add to the excellent response that has been made to this question already...

XCode comes out of the box using the GCC compiler suite for most application-level programming. However, it is possible to use XCode as an IDE front-end for many different compilers in the background.

For example, you can purchase Intel's professional compiler, and it will automatically integrate into XCode.

As another example, I know of embedded systems programmers that use XCode as an IDE front-end (providing project/makefile management, syntax highlighting, class browsing, 3rd-party compiler invocation, etc) for projects targeted at certain 8-bit embedded microcontrollers which have nothing to do with OSX by any stretch of the imagination.

(Question: Since Intel's compiler is apparently C/C++ only, and Leopard's new 64-bit GUI API is only available in Objective-C/Cocoa, does this mean that 64-bit programs produced using Intel's toolset are limited to command-line applications only?)

John Musbach
Dec 1, 2007, 07:23 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Yahoo News reports (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20071128/tc_infoworld/93687;_ylt=AmMg0sm.owTxRvr38gJ3LAwxVrIF) that Intel has upgraded its software development tools (http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/227389.htm) today, introducing support for Mac OS X Leopard as well as their new Penryn processors.

The new tools can also take advantage of the new SSE4 instruction set (http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture-silicon/sse4-instructions/index.htm) that debuted with the Penryn processors.

Intel first announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/12/intel-announces-45-nm-penryn-processors/) the 45-nm Penryn processors on November 12th, 2007, with the first batch of Penryn processors focusing on the higher end server-class Xeon processors. Apple has been rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/05/apple-buying-up-high-end-penryn-processors/) to be buying up the high end 3.2GHz Penryn Xeon processors which feature a faster 1600MHz bus and 12MB of L2 cache for an upcoming Mac Pro revision. Apple currently uses the previous generation Xeon Woodcrest (Quad core Macs) or Xeon Clovertown (8-core Macs) processors in their Mac Pros.

Mobile versions (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/15/intel-demos-next-generation-mobile-processor/) of the Penryn processor are not expected until January 2008.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/28/intel-updates-mac-os-x-development-tools-with-penryn-support/)

As expected, Intel better keep their development tools up to date with regards to their processor releases!