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arn
Apr 17, 2002, 08:29 PM
PowerPage posted (http://www.powerpage.org/story.lasso?newsID=9218) a rumor that a 17-inch iMac model is in the works.

Meanwhile, Hiro had submitted an unverifiable rumor that new iBooks would have 100mhz bumps, ADC-out Powerbooks, and a 17" CRT iMac.

This rumor was previously unpublished due to the lack of supporting evidence... but may provide some information in light of PowerPage's rumor.

macstudent
Apr 17, 2002, 08:32 PM
I don't believe that the imac will be getting a 17" screen anytime soon since the prices of LCD's have been rising recently. Also, if apple can barely keep up with demand for the current imacs, why introduce another model at this time? I think that in a year or so we may see the 17" option.

arn
Apr 17, 2002, 08:34 PM
personally, I don't think we'll see a 17" iMac from Apple any time soon... I still feel Apple's very aware of their product lines - and don't want "Pro"s buying iMacs.

arn

Billicus
Apr 17, 2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by arn
PowerPage posted (http://www.powerpage.org/story.lasso?newsID=9218) a rumor that a 17-inch iMac model is in the works.

Meanwhile, Hiro had submitted an unverifiable rumor that new iBooks would have 100mhz bumps, ADC-out Powerbooks, and a 17" CRT iMac.

This rumor was previously unpublished due to the lack of supporting evidence... but may provide some information in light of PowerPage's rumor.

I find that hard to believe. Here's why:

1) Apple is phasing out the CRT Monitors (a la iMac G3)
2) Why would they mess with a design released 4 months ago, especially when they are still behind on production of the 15'' monitor.
3) Why mess with something that works?
4) I just don't see that happening anytime soon.
5) As for the iBook and Powerbook mods, who knows?

jelloshotsrule
Apr 17, 2002, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by macstudent
I don't believe that the imac will be getting a 17" screen anytime soon since the prices of LCD's have been rising recently. Also, if apple can barely keep up with demand for the current imacs, why introduce another model at this time? I think that in a year or so we may see the 17" option.

i agree on both points. i guess i'd like to think that the 2" difference wouldn't be that much of a cost increase, but just going by the $400 difference b/w the 2 sized apple displays, it clearly is...

i think keeping the crt's up to date (relatively) is a good idea though. as much as the new imac rules, it just LOOKS too fancy for schools and stuff that have been using the old ones. and to keep the crt's pretty cheap would be a good thing for schools and folks like travis... ha

King Cobra
Apr 17, 2002, 08:36 PM
The 17" CRT iMac might be the Flat-CRT base model I suggested in one of the other posts.

The 100MHz update to the iBooks are absolutely possible and will be done; however, if it will stay a G3 or if the chip will transfer to a G4 I can't tell.

What I suggest should happen is that new powerbooks come out soon, along with reduced prices for memory.

How reduced? Well, I think my parents won $5 playing the $330 Million lottery... :)
_______________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

arn
Apr 17, 2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Billicus


I find that hard to believe. Here's why:

1) Apple is phasing out the CRT Monitors (a la iMac G3)
2) Why would they mess with a design released 4 months ago, especially when they are still behind on production of the 15'' monitor.



It is an interesting thought in light of this quote from Macminute re Apple's conference call:

Apple moved 152,000 CRT-based iMacs last quarter; Apple needs a sub-$1,000 product; Anderson: "Long live the original iMac"

arn

(but I agree... unlikely)

King Cobra
Apr 17, 2002, 08:47 PM
Apple can easily create a sub-$1000 product for their base line. Slap in a Flat-CRT monitor, a really fast G3 or slow G4, some basic equipment, and you have a $900 computer.

Arn, question: In "limewire connection problems..." you posted that for Mp3 Audio use AudioGalaxy and for Movies = > use mldonkey. I can ask this since you posted this...where can I find mldonkey? I tried engine54 and altavista and had no luck. It isn't a big deal, but it would be nice to know.

Also, where can I download a G4 iMac? :)
_______________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

me hate windows
Apr 17, 2002, 09:14 PM
Why would Apple make a 17" CRT iMac? It is already big and bulky. I would not want an iMac bigger than that.

But the 17" LCD iMac could happen. In all the pictures of the iMac, it looks like the base is tiny, but in real life it pretty big. Maybe in all the pictures, it has a 17" monitor on it to make the base look small.:eek: Hmmmmmm..........

Mr. Anderson
Apr 17, 2002, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by arn
personally, I don't think we'll see a 17" iMac from Apple any time soon... I still feel Apple's very aware of their product lines - and don't want "Pro"s buying iMacs.

If the iMac had a G3, how many 'pro's would be interested? I don't think it would be all that viable as a pro model. It would be nice to give the option of extra screen acreage to hobbiest and students, and also adds longer life to the product line. If they keep the CRT iMac around, how long are people going to settle for a small screen when larger ones keep getting cheaper and cheaper? All its doing is dating itself as old and obsolete, you can dress it up in different colors, but its basically still the same.

I could see it happening sooner than we think, and it could help delay the debue of the G5 if they need to wait until MWSF. Things are getting tight for Apple in the pro arena lately, and they'll need to keep new hardware coming on a regular basis. By adding a bigger screen, it might help them as far as Wall Street is concerned. But how important is that anyway?

DaveGee
Apr 17, 2002, 09:47 PM
While I don't put myself into the 'g5 soon' gang here is the only way I see a 17" iMac.

17" CRT iMac just doesn't fit... First off Steve has his new iMac and I don't see him going back to rev the old one and draw attention away from it. Think about it... that ain't Steve... Second it wouldn't make sense for Apple to give the old iMac a larger screen and draw even more attention to the fact that that new iMac is only a 15". Finally like many, a 17" iMac would force Apple to re-tool for a brand new line and that cost money that IMHO Apple would be able to re-coupe

17" LCD iMac... Yea that fits cept for one thing... Some pro sales would be re-directed to the iMac. The speed difference between the entry level PowerMac and the iMac just isn't large enough and the cost of the PowerMac+17"LCD is way more than what Apple would be able to charge for an 17" LCD iMac.

How could Apple stop the Pro's from going iMac 17"? CPU Bump the Pro line at the same time the iMac get's bumped to 17".

Do I think this will happen... Sure but I'd be very VERY surprised if it was done at MWNY. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to happen but I'd rather not get my hopes up.

Dave

Macette
Apr 17, 2002, 09:49 PM
If Apple release new iMacs with CRTs I will eat my shoe. It just ain't their style. You don't see them running back to floppy drives, do ya?

Rower_CPU
Apr 17, 2002, 10:02 PM
If you look down at the comments on the page you can see some pretty good reasons why not:

Arm design - would have to be redesigned to provide similar ease-of-movement while not collapsing under the extra weight
Center of gravity - if the display is as heavy/heavier than the base, extending the display too far from the base would cause it to be unstable
Price - people already complain about the price of the iMac being beyond the true consumer market...what will a 17" display that costs an additional $400 do to that price point?

macstudent
Apr 17, 2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet


If they keep the CRT iMac around, how long are people going to settle for a small screen when larger ones keep getting cheaper and cheaper? All its doing is dating itself as old and obsolete, you can dress it up in different colors, but its basically still the same.


I still think they will keep manufacturing the CRT imacs for at least a year. The reason is simply because education institutions rely on the bottom line, and that bottom line is cost and durability. The original imacs are very cheap to purchase and there is hardly any upkeep. The new imacs on the other hand cost more, and could be broken easier due to the misuse of students.

While I love the new imac, it is not neccesarily the best computer for a classroom full of kids who like to hang on things.

MacManiac1224
Apr 17, 2002, 10:27 PM
I think that a 17 inch iMac G4 is out of the question right now, of course it is in the works, maybe in a year or so, they will release it. As for Powerbook and iBook upgrades, they are needed. We will have to wait and see what happens, but I hope that we get a powerbook upgrade before MWNY

rainman::|:|
Apr 18, 2002, 12:40 AM
I cannot possibly imagine a 17" LCD iMac, and I'll tell you why. Not because product lines would be difficult to manage, not because it would add too much cost, or detract from the Pro sales. Think of this: The 15" iMac took Ives two years to realize, conceptualize, and perfect. Do you think Jobs is just going to slap a 17 inch monitor on? At the risk of starting a form vs. function flame war, it would be aesthetically unsound. They would have to re-design the computer, perhaps by creating a bigger CPU or starting from scratch... Neither is probably likely. If you asked Jobs or Ives why, they'd probably say "it just wouldn't look right"...

That's totally ignoring the fact that the whole point of a consumer line at Apple is that they get minimal choices. 15" displays have been the only size available for consumer models since the iMac came out. (we're ignoring the Cube, because i still don't know how the hell to classify it)

I think we as Mac users tend to overlook the immense time and work that goes into physical design, instead taking it for granted and throwing it out the window when we want another feature, and for cheap, too...

Just my2 as always ;)

pnw

eirik
Apr 18, 2002, 12:58 AM
From the posts that I'd read in this thread, I found that many of the reasons for not going with the 17" LCD are actually reasons for going with the 17" LCD.

Supply problems:

Many have noted that the 15" LCD supply suggest that Apple shouldn't go with a 17" LCD.

On the contrary, that is one of the greatest reasons for adding a 17" LCD iMac. Since Apple introduced the 15" LCD iMac, it has failed to meet demand. Undoubtedly, this has slowed the momentum that iMac would have otherwise enjoyed. This is contrary to what Fred Johnson said today. He claimed that sales do not appear to have slowed because of the supply shortage. That is just plain hogwash@!!! It may be that sales have kept up with Apple's original conservative forecast of sales. But, sales beget sales!!! The difference between delivering 50,000 units and delivering 150,000 units is that there are 100,000 more people showing their friends, colleagues, and family the new iMac and talking about how wonderful it is. So, Apple has lost much in the way of opportunity sales due to the supply shortage.

So, why the 17" LCD iMac? If your suppliers can provide you 5,000 units per day of 15" LCD's and your total demand is 7,500 units, adding 17" LCD's to the mix could fill the gap.

The simple pricing approach is to maintain constant margin. But, people willing to buy a 17" LCD iMac are considerably less sensitive than those buying lower-end Macs. So, either way, the addition of the 17" LCD iMacs would raise Apple's earnings period (more than enough to cover the incremental development and production costs).

A 17" iMac would generate much needed publicity for Apple to reinvigorate its market momentum, dampened by the supply problems. Further, it would provide a further cushion for handling variances or deficits in 15" LCD supplies should Apple's johnny-come-lately advertising campaign that has been unusually small finally be funded at industry normal levels. Do you doubt that if Apple didn't have this supply problem that it wouldn't be employing considerably more advertising resources? Backlogs are fine for the Apple faithful; but new converts are significantly less likely to tolerate shipment delays, a mark that Apple would wear for a long time.

Costly development to add 17" LCD:

If Apple didn't have several prototype models of 17" LCD iMac I would be absolutely shocked!!! If Apple has to lengthen the display arm..., that would be trivial. If Apple has to increase the weight of the dome, that too would be trivial. The display arm has supposedly been causing production problems. Well, the same solution for the 15" LCD would obviously apply to the 17" model. I have no doubts that Apple has always intended to make 17" LCD's a future enhancement.

Apple has had months to deal with its supply issues. In this period of time, Apple could easily make a practical 17" variant as well as be damn near close if not finished with adding it to production.

Cannibalize low-end PowerMacs:

That would be great news!!! The low-end PowerMac is one of Apple's lowest margin units. The 17" iMac would appeal to people less price sensitive than those buying low-end PowerMacs; it would generate higher margins. The low-end PowerMac consumers are considerably more price sensitive than high-end iMac consumers, certainly more so than high-end PowerMac consumers.

Is it so hard to imagine yuppy consumers that prefer style over expandability and minor performance differences? PowerMac buyers want expandability, upgradeability, and performance. An iMac falls short on these preferences. No, I do not think there would be any adverse cannibalism. If anything, there would be earnings positive cannibalism.

Price would be too high:

In Apple's finance conference call, Fred Anderson stated that there is no evidence that the $100/unit across the board price increase for iMac had any impact on sales. This confirms my premise that iMac buyers are relatively price inelastic or price insentivie. Add a $100/unit to a low-end Dell and you'd see a significant drop in unit volume because that target market is more price sensitive or price elastic.

The iMac is not exactly a low-end PC. Yes, its less expensive than PowerMacs. But, its clearly more expensive than Dell, Gateway, or white box CRT units. The true low-end PC targets price sensitive consumers. Upper low-end consumers to high-end consumers go for LCD PCs today. The 15" LCD iMac is price and value competitive. Gateway is already offering a 17" upper-low-end option.

LCD Cost:

This really is part of the price issue but I've separated it to make a point. When an OEM negotiates deals with suppliers, the smart OEM's create incentives for the suppliers to meet demand and/or to cut their prices to get business. Apple recently added a second supplier, Apple could have reasonably worked out a deal for more heavily discounted 17" LCD's by levering the second supplier against the first and by making it a condition for the second supplier to get the deal. Even if no special accomodation is/was attained, the yuppy iMac crowd would still buy the 17" version. Only a sound conjoint analysis could determine this prior to launch, I would expect that Apple's market research firm has done this already. If not, an Apple product manager needs a butt kicking!!!

CPU Speed Delta:

One might argue that the 17" iMac must be slower than that of the low-end PowerMac. I tend to agree with this insofar as an iMac should not be faster than a PowerMac. But it can be equal!!! Again, a conjoint analysis would be very useful.

Another might feel that the 17" iMac must be faster than the 15" iMac. I disagree. The display delta is all the differentiation that is required. Why tempt fait further; the target consumers may be less price sensitive but they are not price insensitive.

Well, I think a 17" iMac makes a lot of sense.

I also think what someone has called a "headless" iMac makes a lot of sense. This is what I have in the past referred to as the iBrick. But that's another post/thread.

Eirik

Geert
Apr 18, 2002, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i think keeping the crt's up to date (relatively) is a good idea though. as much as the new imac rules, it just LOOKS too fancy for schools and stuff that have been using the old ones. and to keep the crt's pretty cheap would be a good thing for schools and folks like travis... ha

Indeed a sub 1000$ is needed (if you see what prices are for some low-line peeceees)
Apple needs to take up on that share of the market as well, remember What Steve said, introducing a quality product for all shares in the market
so far we had:
powermac - pro-users
and imac - all the rest
(count the laptop market out for a sec.)
so now we have:
powermac - pro-users
(which will be updated soon, seen all articles I read like that survey )
new imac - semi-pro-users (us:p )
(btw the new iMac is not more expensive compared to other peecees of equal hardware specs.)
imac-low - level users
There are still folks out there who do not want to spend 1900$ on a computer even though it looks great. they just need it for your basic surfin', and some exel.
So a 17" CRT would just be filling/entering the low level market share again.
(These low level users ask for big screen (works easy), high processor speed (that's other chip designers just fooling them, because a big exell file just deviates seconds/microseconds on low><high)
So a 17" and high g3 specs would do the trick.

Geert
Apr 18, 2002, 01:21 AM
oh, I forgot
So that would definitely not be a 17" new iMac.

Buggy
Apr 18, 2002, 04:46 AM
15" CRT iMac is not going away.

17" iMac is NOT going to happen, just look to the "Molar" for reasons why its design won't work.

17: LCD will happen just a matter of when

1) re: cutting pro sales. Do not assume that pros are too stupid to decide which machine is best for them. They should not have ot b forced to buy a machine that is more than they need just to fit them into little boxes about what a pro machine is or what a consumer machine is. Only one yer ago a pro would have killed for the specs in an LCD imac. I doubt that many of those users have changed their work flow or requirments by then. Let people buy the computer that is best for them

2) Redesign issues.

A) Weight???? have any of you posting actually tried to lift one of these new iMacs.... a 17" LCD will come NO where close to tipping this thing. a 19" would still be ok without any added weight.

C) the arm??? easy change. Possible longer and a slight increase inthe tension. Nothing that even a backyard mechanic couldn't do. This thing is very well engineered. To say that re-engineering a simple thing like a monitor change is not possible is an insult to the original engineers.

B) Form vs function... probably the best argument of why it may not happen (though I still think it will). In my opinion I don't think it is that big of an issue for the LCD iMac. The idea of a 17" CRT iMac... no question... It will look bulky and lose its intimacy and cute factor. But the LCD monitor on the new iMac just floats infront of the base. When using it (Yes I work on one) you don't even notice the base, it disapears and all you are left with is the screen. The only area of issue would be from the side or by someone not using the cumputer.

arn
Apr 18, 2002, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by King Cobra

Arn, question: In "limewire connection problems..." you posted that for Mp3 Audio use AudioGalaxy and for Movies = > use mldonkey. I can ask this since you posted this...where can I find mldonkey? I tried engine54 and altavista and had no luck. It isn't a big deal, but it would be nice to know.



http://www.freesoftware.fsf.org/mldonkey/

arn

wsteineker
Apr 18, 2002, 06:58 AM
I haven't had a mac for long, but I have followed these boards for a while and I am a marketing major. Follow me on this one for a minute. Apple needs to hit the low end market, and they need to do so in such a fashion as to provide sub-$1000 machines to the web surfin' and word processin' crowd. Why don't they start some sort of "certified used mac" initiative. It works for car companies, and it could work for computers too. Think about it. 3rd party vendors have been taking trade-ins and selling them back as refurbs for a while now, and at quite a pretty profit. If Apple were to take this idea and bring it in house, adding the requisite "Apple touch" it could be a goldmine. I have a G4 450 Cube that MORE than meets every need I have (web, e-mail, word processing). Hell, I even run GoLive without a hitch. These machines are still quite viable for the low end market, especially if Apple keeps working the ease of use, integration, and megahertz myth angles. This solves everyones problems, really. Pros keep their towers, iMac sales stay steady, and the true budget buyer has a realistic option as well. Macs get into homes, OS X gets onto desktops, and everyone can afford to get a piece of the action. Current owners looking to trade up can get a break on a new model. Apple makes money on both ends of the deal. It may sound crazy, but I honestly think that it would work. Oh well, just my 2 cents.

Tommy!
Apr 18, 2002, 07:53 AM
I wonder if the weight of the 17" LCD would make the imac tip...

Mr. Anderson
Apr 18, 2002, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Tommy!
I wonder if the weight of the 17" LCD would make the imac tip...

There would be an increased weight issue invloved, but it could also be anchored by a heavier base. Apple would never release an iMac or any computer that could have such an obvious design flaw.

Spock
Apr 18, 2002, 09:22 AM
Hey check this out: http://www.applefritter.com/hacks/21imac/index.html

drastik
Apr 18, 2002, 10:09 AM
I have to be honest here, I would probably buy a 17" FLAT CRT iMac if apple could bring it in at around ninehundred bucks. I love the small footprint of the imacG4, but I've had big monitors for years, and I can deal with them.

I also think that a 17" CRT would be totaly redesigned, maybe not as drasticly as the G4, but something new, I doubt that Iveshas any trouble dreaming up new cases.

If the rumors have some grain of truth, my guess would be an educational market only iMac. This makes sense in the broader context of Apple trying to capture niche markets, like high end video. I wouldn't be surprised by custom quad processors sometime for High End video, as well as maybe rackmount cases for audio (if digidesign will port over the stupid Pro Tools already.

I think this kind of market segmentation makes sense for apple becase it positions them with great advertising. Kids grow up using Mac at school (we used IIe's when I was in grade school, but it started the bug), and people see them in conection with movies and probably a greater presence on the movie screen.

Of course, if you went by the movie screen, Apple has 90% of the market already. Is it sick that I can date movies by the model of powerbook or tower they use?:p

rice_web
Apr 18, 2002, 10:20 AM
Guys... guys... guys.

It's really quite simple.

Just offer the OPTION of a 17" LCD iMac. If the buyer wants an iMac with a bigger monitor, make him pay for it (i.e. an extra $400). The iMac can easily support a 17" display, so why not? If it dips into the PowerMac, so what? The PowerMac is in need of a revision anyway, so what does it matter? The PowerMacs could likely have DDR and processors at 1.33 GHz in May, so would it be that much of a problem?

mcrain
Apr 18, 2002, 10:24 AM
Wow, that's a big imac. You'd have to have a lot of extra deskspace.

As for me, I'd prefer a bigger LCD screen if I was in the market for an imac, but, I'm not sure how it would fit into the current marketing.

eric_n_dfw
Apr 18, 2002, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by arn
Meanwhile, Hiro had submitted an unverifiable rumor that new iBooks would have 100mhz bumps, ADC-out Powerbooks, and a 17" CRT iMac.

How the heck would an ADC-out Powerbook port work? Where would the power come from?

Maybe a pigtail with a power supply or something?

I'd rather see an Apple docking station for them myself.

-Eric

rice_web
Apr 18, 2002, 10:32 AM
And, as for the CRT iMac:

Keep it, update it.

Apple can sell thousands of these daily if an 800MHz G3 was thrown in, with a slightly better video card. Sell it, starting with a 700MHz G3 at $699. And an 800MHz G3 for $899 and 256 RAM, etc. These things would look great in Mac and could lead Apple to higher sales figures than ever before.

MacHack
Apr 18, 2002, 10:33 AM
The 17" CRT iMac has been in the works for a long time (but was shelved in favor of the LCD) and will now replace the old CRT iMac form. This machine should help Apple fix sales numbers that were hurt due to shortages of the LCD iMac -- some orders will switch to CRT's instead of waiting for LCD's, while this machine will attract its own orders - for the 17" monitor.
Also, watch for a speed bump on the LCD iMac when this is announced.

Mr. Anderson
Apr 18, 2002, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
I'd rather see an Apple docking station for them myself.

That would be great, yeah, why hasn't Apple made a docking station, there are all sorts of things you could do to improve the laptops, plug in the firewire and USB and have 2 or 3 times as many ports on the docking station.

But as for the ADC, could you put that in a dockingstation, it would be like the Dr. Botts DVIextractor, they're not exactly small.

OSeXy!
Apr 18, 2002, 12:42 PM
As a designer (whatever that's worth), I'd like to see an LCD iMac with a 17" Cinema (3:4) display. I think it would make it look less "cute", and would drive home the DVD-studio theme...

johnpaul191
Apr 18, 2002, 01:17 PM
17" CRT imac...... i doubt it... the 15" is still selling well, 130,000 last quarter. switching to 17" crt is a major redesign and retooling. they will have all sorts of costs to make up for. if they do just enlarge the whole imac, it is going to add a lot of weight to the thing. i know now a lot of people refuse to trust the handle in the top of them. *maybe* if they switched to a shortneck CRT... they cost about the same, weigh less and are less than 1/3 the length of the standard CRTs. but it seems like a lot of work a little too late for that line (unless they are just reall made for education models, like that giant all in one G3 icebox that was never sold to the public).

17" lcd imac..... not for a year or more... the 15" lcd sells well (and a 15" LCD is not like a 15" CRT), it is also a kick in the pants to anyone who bought one already. ... think how long it took them to jump the ibook to 14". i do see it happening though. i was at a reseller a week or two ago and got a very interesting take on 14" ibooks from the Mac salesguy. he thinks a lot of motivation was people with poorer eyesight (including older people). you can always jack up the resolution on a 15" imac to make most stuff fit, but someone is going to complain if it is in public/office use. he said a lot of older people were buying TiBooks only because of the larger display. that's a lot of $ just to be able to see the screen.

imac stealing "pro" users from minitowers.... there is an easy fix to that.... even before the G5, there is a G4 7500 series chip Moto is making. rumors indicate we will see them in Macs before G5 is released. one big snag in the Apple lineup rightnow is bus speed. it took till the new ibooks (january 2002) for them all to be 100mghz. the Pro line is still stuck at 133mghz motherboards. i see the minitowers going to new speeds and faster Ram before the consumer lines. that will make a bigger gap in the performance charts. i was a suprised as anyone to see an 800mghz G4 imac, but it would make sense if, say by July's end, there is a G4 pro model shipping with a faster motherboard.

oh, and bluetooth for all! no reason that can't be added to the machines, or have a sneaky port for it. messes up the clean lines of the ibook to have the little nub sticking out, let alone the snap off possibilities, and needing to remove it to fit the machine in a happy little case. internal airport cards just win in so many cases. at the college i go to i see the kids pack up their wintel machines... they have to shut down, pull out the 802.11 card (whole school is a big wireless network) pack it ina little box then pack everything away..... the ibook and Tibook kids just snap the screen down, open their bags and slide them into a laptop sleeve and take off.

Tommy!
Apr 18, 2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet


There would be an increased weight issue invloved, but it could also be anchored by a heavier base. Apple would never release an iMac or any computer that could have such an obvious design flaw.

yes, i know that steve would never let us down :) but i was just wondering... how much more weight can u pack into that thing? theyd probably want to use identical bases for all models. If the weight of a normal 17" lcd could make the current base tip, maybe it was never meant to be :-/

Buggy
Apr 18, 2002, 05:28 PM
GET over the weight issue. Have any of you suggesting this ever been near a real iMac LCD and lifted it????

A 17" will never tip this thing!! Not even a 19". It is heavy.

I just did an experiment on my LCD. I put the neck all the way down and then pressed on the top to try an tip it over.... your monitor would have to weight almost 20lbs to make it tip...

Get over the tipping issue.

rainman::|:|
Apr 19, 2002, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Buggy
Get over the tipping issue.

and yet no one can answer the obvious visual-design issue, except by saying "apple prepared for this"

Jobs is anal-retentive to a max. the current display is proportionate to the base to create an orderly, visually appealing unit. Playing around with sizes would disrupt that... It's not like the flat-screen displays, where they can just be made bigger and bigger. The base would have to be made bigger to look right, and they've spent so much time getting the base as small as it is...

you can all bitc#-slap me if i'm wrong, but i strongly doubt this, as i've said. You don't change horses in mid race, and you don't change a design that works. Not even if the arm would support a larger screen.

I would, however, like to see the bottom price lowered... but that's just a matter of time... hell, the original iMac started at $1299 and went as low as, what, $899? i think... non-educational...

:)
pnw

Buggy
Apr 19, 2002, 03:56 AM
I agree with you Paul. I always posted against a 17"crt iMac... the thing would just be ugly!! I was unfortunate to have seen the "molar" mac in person.

I am not so convinced that the LCD iMc would be the same since the screen sort of just floats infront of you while you are working... you are totally unaware of the base!

But from the side and other onlooker positions, the form factor may be an issue. This is the one and only plaussible arguement I have so far heard against a 17" iMac.

My arguement was only on the physics. All I ask before people start making claims about the LCD iMac is for them to actually use one. I use one sporatically throughout the day. Truley is a masterpiece. More than I expected when my work ordered one... I thought. Oh that will be cute... But after working on it for a bit ... it is quite different. it is all about computing..

A monitor almost suspended in space that adjusts it position at the slightest command, one mouse and one keyboard... you forget about the rest until you change the CD. :)

twek
Apr 19, 2002, 05:12 AM
i know apple loves pushing new technologies, and it's no doubt that ADC is better than VGA, but putting an ADC port in the new tibooks would cut off so many people that use VGA projectors. yes, you could use an adapter, but that's just one more thing you have to tote along when doing presentations of any sort.

apple always has this tendency to cut off the rest of the computing world by adding "closed system" technologies to their products. for instance, if the cinema displays didn't have ADC ports, PC users would obviously be buying them in droves. of course apple's point is to convert these people entirely over to macs,, but sometimes compromise would be better.

miterkitty152
Apr 19, 2002, 12:02 PM
I think that 17 inch LCD iMac would be good for apple, and Iwould belive that they are making it.However, if they do, I think they should stop selling the 15"monitor with Power Macs, and come up with a new 19" or 20" monitor. But, the idea of a 17" CRT iMacis is positively stupid. If apple had wanted todo that, they should have done it a year ago...

pkradd
Apr 19, 2002, 12:31 PM
A 17" CRT iMac will not happen. It would give the computer too large a footprint. This 17" rumor has been going on since the introduction of the Biondi Blue iMac. And, as you're aware of, it has the same appx viewing area of the 15" LCD. So why bother. By the way, Apple is paying appx $280 U.S. for the 15" TFT display (not including the casing) according to a far east article printed a few days ago.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/2002/04/18/story/0000132390

voicegy
Apr 20, 2002, 02:34 PM
...that a larger size screen iMac SOMETHING is inevitable, and we'll see it by next January.

As a technologist in education, I know that the CRT iMacs will be around for quite a while...it's too important to keep machines that are well under $1,000 for education entry, as well as consumers.

3xtrmn8r
Apr 24, 2002, 12:16 PM
ADC PowerBooks? Not a chance. I don't think theTi could supply enough power for this set-up. Ya, it would be nice to slap one of those 22s onto the Ti, but I'm happy with VGA and my tank of a CRT, VGA is especially handy for projectors.

The Ti needs a beastly video card 1st.

allday
Apr 24, 2002, 12:49 PM
A 17" iMac would be GREAT! Would be. But it will not happen, at least in the near future. As for a 17" CRT, come on. Steve Jobs would not be shown up after anouncing the death of the CRT to release an iMac with 17" CRT. The arm of a G4 iMac could hold it, but the cost would be $300-$500 for the LDC. No go on this rumor. As for the amazing speed bumps in the iBooks, the 600 Mhz models already have 100 Mhz bus speeds. Now a bump to 133 or 166 would be something to talk about. I do believe that the 500 Mhz G3 + 66 Mhz system bus needs bumped up desparetly, but not unless Apple can keep the price steady, or bring it down for the Education Market that they are trying gain market share in. Now PowerBooks, very reasonable rumor with top speeds up to 800 Mhz now that the G4 iMac has reached peak production.

I say look for somw BlueTooth devices in the next few months!

DNA
May 2, 2002, 03:21 AM
...The 17'' CRT G4 eMac is alive and kickin', go to www.apple.com and see for yourselves.

jelloshotsrule
May 2, 2002, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by DNA
...The 17'' CRT G4 eMac is alive and kickin', go to www.apple.com and see for yourselves.

thanks speedy