ATI 9800 control panel

[KentuckyApple]

Just got my dualie, i don't see any pref pane for my 9800 pro. Do i need to install drivers from ATI.com. Are they safe/neccessary?

[Sun Baked]

The ATI control panels and pref. panes don't work with the OEM version of the ATI card.

If you look at the system profiler the card with probably be recognized as a ATY card.

---

Basically the drivers will work, but not the fancy control panel/preference pane.

For that you'd need a retail card, but the retail 9800 Pro card is only a 4x card -- though some people are using them in G5s anyway.

[ZildjianKX]

Oh man that sucks :o

How did benchmarks online do FSAA then with the stock 9600 Pros then? They don't sell 9600 Pros non-OEM.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Oh man that sucks :o

How did benchmarks online do FSAA then with the stock 9600 Pros then? They don't sell 9600 Pros non-OEM.

Please point us to these benchmarks? I don't think there is anyway of doing FSAA with any ATI card except the retail ATI9800 unless the program itself supports the feature.

[aethier]

WEll that sucks, i ordered mine with the radeon 9800 pro too. what does ATY mean. and i would apple sell us a high end graphics card, on a high end machine and not give us the control panel for it. thats just dumb

aethier

[aethier]

Hmmm, are you sure its located in the system prefs, maybe its a seperate app.

if you look at the image Here (http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=403&Page=4), the ati pref, isnt in to os x system preference application. it is missing the little buttun in the top rught corner to hide or show the etra thingy on top...

aethier

[Veldek]

Could someone please post, if there is in fact an extra app to control these features on the new G5 which comes with a BTO 9800 or if you cannot find it?

[Dont Hurt Me]

i think the answer is no, the build to order card is also a agp 8 card vs 4/2 for retail. i would guess future panther builds will have support for these features but it seems only the retail card at this moment gives you the full features of the card while the g5 version is waiting for panther. please correct me if i'm wrong on this.

[Veldek]

So, Panther will give us all the options to get all out of this card? I really hope so, otherwise, it would be really bad. It's like selling a car with a turbo, but without installing the button to start it...

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Please point us to these benchmarks? I don't think there is anyway of doing FSAA with any ATI card except the retail ATI9800 unless the program itself supports the feature.

Here ya go. There has to be a way then.

http://www.accelerateyourmac.com/G5/Dual_g5_9600_9800_tests.html

http://www.accelerateyourmac.com/G5/UT2003_4xFSAA8AF_1024.gif

They explain all about the 9800 and the differences between retail and BTO, but the Radeon 9600 they use is stock G5, but they don't explain how they do FSAA for it in some of their tests.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Here ya go. There has to be a way then.

http://www.accelerateyourmac.com/G5/Dual_g5_9600_9800_tests.html

They explain all about the 9800 and the differences between retail and BTO, but the Radeon 9600 they use is stock G5, but they don't explain how they do FSAA for it in some of their tests.

Well we should have an answer here in the next day or two. I just shot off an email to Mike at XLR8yourmac.com to see what he did.

[ZildjianKX]

LoL, so did I.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
LoL, so did I.

Oops, man I hate to bug that guy he's so busy. Actually I've been considering responding to his request for writers and help.

[MacBandit]

Here's the reply back I got from Mike at Xlr8yourmac.com.

Yes, as noted by ATI some time back and added to the
9800 Pro FAQ here, the ATI 4.1 displays feature only works with the
retail 9800 Pro - but I didn't rely on that for enabling FSAA, etc.
for those tests.

I used the game's ini (config) file edits
to enable the features. (This has been an option for many ATI cards
for a some time). The UT PR3 and UT2003 tests w/FSAA, etc. used
ini files that had those features enabled.

To ensure the exact same config/settings - I did not rely on the
9800's 3D/GL overrides even for the 9800 tests.
I used the same ini files for all cards.

One of the readme's for UT PR3 noted the ATI FSAA edits
for enabling FSAA (up to 4x, but as I noted many of the
ATI cards other than the 9800 support only SuperSample FSAA
so at 4x are limited to 1024x768 w/4x FSAA enabled.
The 9800 Pro can do Multisample FSAA at higher resolutions)

How to enable FSAA in UT2003 was mentioned at the main site news page
some months back and was added back then to the FAQ's Games
section - see the FAQ's game section Question titled:

How do I enable FSAA and/or Anisotropic Filtering in Unreal Tournament 2003?

It lists the ini file edits there.

[Veldek]

I'm not sure what to think about this, it's very uncomfortable. Would be much easier to have a control panel/app. Let's hope for Panther...

[Schiffi]

Well a control panel probably won't do much good unless you had it search for all the game's ini files on your hd. Most games allow you to enable FSAA in it's options (I know NWN does this) while other games require ini modification (UT2003).

[Dont Hurt Me]

just did a lil research and it turns out no adc on the 9800?? what is ati thinking? they have it on the 9000 but not 9800??

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
just did a lil research and it turns out no adc on the 9800?? what is ati thinking? they have it on the 9000 but not 9800??

Yep. The Retail (AGP 2x, 4x) version of the Radeon 9800 Pro only has DVi, VGA and TV-out.
This is because the card is a "flashed" version of the PC card. No other hardware modifications were made.
The BTO G5 Radeon 9800 ofcourse does have ADC, alongside DVI.

[Dont Hurt Me]

well that really sucks, guess ill just keep using my geforce 3. i was really planning on a 9800 but im not going to buy a $100 adapter on top of a $ 400 card. ati still doesnt quite get it when it comes to the mac.

[MacsRgr8]

Well, that depends.
I really was VERY happy to hear ATi were willing to produce the Retail version of the Radeon 9800 Pro card for Macintosh (the BEST gaming card!).
Lucky for me, I still use an Apple Studio Display 21" (still better for gaming, as there is no problem with a default resolution), so I don't have to buy the extra adaptor.
But I know how you feel.
But, otherwise the card would have been very expensive. For ATi this was just a small adjustment, thus keeping it cheap.

[Dont Hurt Me]

from what i understand this is nothing more then the pc card with mac drivers,every mac since the 733 has had adc yet they claim this is a mac card but no adc. come on ati isnt marketing a retail version mac card they are selling the pc card flashed for mac with the drivers. shame shame shame on ati. they seem to allways find a way to dissapoint, just like their drivers from a couple of years ago.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
from what i understand this is nothing more then the pc card with mac drivers,every mac since the 733 has had adc yet they claim this is a mac card but no adc. come on ati isnt marketing a retail version mac card they are selling the pc card flashed for mac with the drivers. shame shame shame on ati. they seem to allways find a way to dissapoint, just like their drivers from a couple of years ago.

It has been flashed aswell, making the card itself suitable for Macintosh. If they wanted to have added an ADC port, ATi would have to redesign the whole card.... which now is the BTO one, for the G5.
Compare the nVidia GeForce 4 Ti 4600 PC version with the BTO Apple version: The card for Mac is almost twice the price!
Many do want the advantages of the Radeon 9800, maybe with a VGA or DVI monitor, and maybe some will purchase the adaptor aswell for connecting an ADC monitor....
Having options is gr8. Having the Radeon selling at PC prices is gr8. And it still is possible to use an DVi - ADC adaptor.....

[Dont Hurt Me]

the 9000 has adc,9800 retail should have had it too. think of it like this-- what computer could you put this card in and game???? answer at least a adc equiped mac in other words those computers that didnt have adc are to slow to even bother with this card, you need the latest greatest mac to push this card and they are all ADC. whatever ATI was thinking is beyond me if they were marketing this card for retail mac, I know this doesnt effect new g5 buyers but it pisses the heck out of us powermac g4 users who would like to upgrade their video card.

[MacsRgr8]

I understand what you are saying.
But I think ATi did it with reason:
Building the 9000 with ADC included maybe isn't as costly an effort as adding ADC support to the 9800. I know I'm guessing, here... but I would like to give ATi the benefit of the doubt.
Like I said before, getting ADC on a GeForce 4 Ti costs ALOT of money. If you would like to upgrade to a GeForce 4 card, you are almost paying the same amount as a Radeon 9800 + DVi to ADC adaptor (!).
Don't forget the Radeon is MUCH faster, with that super control panel (thread starter?? :) ), making all cards seem "outdated".
Honeslty, I would go for the 9800, and get the adaptor necessary for ADC monitors.
Don't get me wrong, I would love for ATi to have made this card ADC compatible, but somehow I think it would have rocketed the price.

[MacBandit]

Personally I HATE ADC. It's a frigging joke. It's another proprietary connector that causes expense and trouble for switchers and people upgrading. I personally believe that Apple did this so that those that don't have there computer handy would have to buy the display so they would have a power button. Come on can anyone realistically tell me that a power button on the monitor is more convenient then the one they use to have on the keyboard. Personally Apple can take there ADC and shove it so far up their,,, that they choke.

[Dont Hurt Me]

well they are famous for this crap but it is nice to have that one connection anyways since it was standard on the 9000 it should have been on the 9800. also since iam busting on that darn canadian company ati why didnt they ever have a all in wonder mac version,9000-9600-9800, sorry i just cant think very highly of this pc video card maker with half trys for the mac.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
well they are famous for this crap but it is nice to have that one connection anyways since it was standard on the 9000 it should have been on the 9800. also since iam busting on that darn canadian company ati why didnt they ever have a all in wonder mac version,9000-9600-9800, sorry i just cant think very highly of this pc video card maker with half trys for the mac.

Well the ATI9000 ships OEM in new Macs where as the ATI9800 does not. Only the 8x AGP version ships which is not backwards compatible with 4x AGP because of a voltage issue and that is why there is no 8x AGP ATI9800 with ADC on the retail market.

I still think the ATI cards have more polish to them then any of the NVidia cards.

[Dont Hurt Me]

if that was the case then adc would be standard on the retail version, so there is a lot of polishing to be done if you want to call it a mac version. you shouldnt have to buy an adapter for a so called mac version. just wish we had an aftermarket nvidea maker since ati is doing this kind of crap. the nvidea 5900 blows away the 9800 in the tests i have seen on the pc side maybe someone will bring the 5900 with ADC to the mac.

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Personally I HATE ADC. It's a frigging joke. It's another proprietary connector that causes expense and trouble for switchers and people upgrading. I personally believe that Apple did this so that those that don't have there computer handy would have to buy the display so they would have a power button. Come on can anyone realistically tell me that a power button on the monitor is more convenient then the one they use to have on the keyboard. Personally Apple can take there ADC and shove it so far up their,,, that they choke.

ummm, the ADC connector is NOT proprietary. it is an open connection standard. i think its a great connection solution and think its sad that the PC world has failed to adopt it.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
ummm, the ADC connector is NOT proprietary. it is an open connection standard. i think its a great connection solution and think its sad that the PC world has failed to adopt it.

I didn't realize that but it still doesn't explain Apple removing the power button from the supplied keyboard and putting it on the monitor which is not included.