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MacRumors
Dec 17, 2007, 03:16 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The Apple Store updated with last minute (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=F78DD05E&node=campaigns/holiday/shipping) Christmas shipping deadlines on Apple products from the Apple Store. All standard configuration Macs must be purchased by December 19th, 2007 with standard shipping or December 21st with overnight shipping.

Our Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/), however, does not recommend buying MacBook Pros or Mac Pros at this time due to the long lead time since their last update. Rumors have also placed Mac Pro and MacBook Pro revisions in the near future with number of new Intel processors now available for the future machines. To balance this recommendation, however, readers should realize that updates could still be 1-2 months away, with Macworld Expo (January 15th) being the earliest possible date that these upgrades would be announced. And even if announced at Macworld, actual shipping dates could be delayed beyond that date.

Readers should, however, feel comfortable buying new iPods, as most of the iPod line saw dramatic revisions as recently as September (Classic (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/05/new-ipod-story-3/), Nano (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/05/new-ipod-story-2/), Shuffle (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/05/new-ipod-story-1/), Touch (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/05/announced-at-apple-september-5-special-event/)). It seems unlikely that iPods will see major revisions in the near future, though minor storage increases are always possible. iMacs have also been seen relatively recent and significant updates (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/new-imacs-released/), and could also be comfortably purchased at this time.

Recommendations for Cinema Displays, Mac Minis, Apple TV, MacBook and iPhone are trickier due to individual circumstances and are dealt with separately.

Cinema Displays, Mac Minis - historical data for these updates are inconsistent, with rumors of Mac Mini's possibly being discontinued in the near future. Cinema Displays infrequently get major upgrades, and instead get intermittent price drops. Readers may find greater value in 3rd party LCDs at this time.

MacBook - Despite a November 2007 update, the MacBook could see competition with the Apple Sub-notebook expected at Macworld in January. So, unless you are certain that this ultra-portable (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/10/apple-ultra-portable-macbook-rumor-roundup/) will not change your decision, it would be best to wait to buy a MacBook until January 15th.

iPhone, AppleTV - as new consumer electronic devices, Apple has not yet defined the frequency of these updates. Apple TV's future remains entirely open ended as Apple could decide to simply leave its specs stable for some time as it represents an "appliance" device rather than an ongoing platform. However, being a year (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/09/apple-announces-apple-tv-formerly-itv/) since its introduction, we would buy cautiously.

The iPhone, however, has more pressure to receive timely updates due to ongoing competition. The iPhone is rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/06/3g-iphone-and-1500-super-laptop-in-2008/) to see its next major revision in Mid-to-Late 2008. The biggest upgrade expected is a 3G chipset which has been promised for 2008. Whether or not to buy an iPhone now really depends on the your individual need for 3G and if potentially waiting until late 2008 is feasible.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/17/apple-store-shipping-dates-and-buyers-guide-recommendations/)



tkidBOSTON
Dec 17, 2007, 03:19 PM
Nice work as usual Arn.

Thanks for the summary. :)

arn
Dec 17, 2007, 03:23 PM
One thing to note about the iPhone is that since it is not subsidized... you don't have to worry as much about buying the next one. It's the same price if you are a new customer or old. You would simply just move your SIM card from your old iPhone to your new one if you decide to upgrade in a year.

arn

MarlboroLite
Dec 17, 2007, 03:24 PM
Wish I had a real Time Machine to fast forward one month!!! I want to switch to Mac NOW!!! But I'm waiting...and it's going to suck big time if the new MBPs will not ship until February :(

destroyboredom
Dec 17, 2007, 03:26 PM
Arn-

Any thoughts on if a 16GB iPhone would be introduced at MWSF? May be not replacing the 8GB but a 16GB priced @ $500?

Squonk
Dec 17, 2007, 03:27 PM
Yeah so that explains why the store was down today - to list the configurations that are available for 24 hour shipping. I remember that from previous years. I like that change to the store.

I'm waiting to see what 1/15 brings for MBP's :D

arn
Dec 17, 2007, 03:31 PM
Arn-

Any thoughts on if a 16GB iPhone would be introduced at MWSF? May be not replacing the 8GB but a 16GB priced @ $500?

I don't think there have any been reliable reports of it. Maybe a couple of analyst guesses. I don't know if there's much merit in it.

arn

MacsRgr8
Dec 17, 2007, 03:34 PM
Anybody know the longest interval between "real" updates?
(I'd rather call the intro of the 8-cores Mac Pro's as a product line expansion than an upgrade. You can still buy the same Mac Pro now as of August 17th 2006 for the same price).

One can argue that the G4 running @ 400 MHz was introduced August 1999, and finally ditched January 2001. But, that product did get a little update... Gb ethernet...
The 500 MHz version was also introduced in August 1999, but then was lowered to 450 MHz, and later re-introduced but famously with a twin: the Dual 500 MHz G4.

So, IIRC this Mac Pro is the longest living non-upgraded Mac after Steve made it back to Apple..?

roland.g
Dec 17, 2007, 03:40 PM
I would call it very unlikely to see the iPhone go to 8 and 16 since the price drop, along with the fact that the iPod Touch is 8 and 16 giving some differentiation. For the iPhone to move up, so would the Touch which seems unlikely that 16 and 32s would be available at the current 8 and 16 price points.

Best buys right now point to iPods and iMacs for sure. I think the same can definitely be said for iPhones as 3G is still 7-8+ months away if not longer. The Apple TV is a good product and while there could be changes, it complements a Mac quite well.

The higher end Mac Pros and MacBook Pros are the biggest do not buys for sure. And the MacBook is definitely a judgement call b/c of the ultracompact rumors.

Good roundup Arn.

Clive At Five
Dec 17, 2007, 03:49 PM
Maybe you should implement a standard deviation-based algorithm for the buying advice comments. It would smooth out the uncertain predictability of things like displays and :apple:TV... not to mention give a more realistic responce than "DON'T BUY!" when the current release period meets or exceeds the average.

It'll give a good statistical look at the probability of release. Looking at it from further back, on the first day of the unit's debut, it has a 50% chance of being renewed again before the average release cycle and 50% chance of being renewed afterward.

Then if the standard deviation is 15 days, it'll be 84% likely that it will be refreshed in (avg cycle) + 15 days, 97.7% likely that it'll be released in (avg cycle) + 15 days + 15 days, etc.

I think it'd be more valuable for users to see this sort of a statistical look at the buyer's guide... but will have the drawback of giving analysts more meaningless spew-age.

Think about it.

-Clive

destroyboredom
Dec 17, 2007, 03:49 PM
I would call it very unlikely to see the iPhone go to 8 and 16 since the price drop, along with the fact that the iPod Touch is 8 and 16 giving some differentiation. For the iPhone to move up, so would the Touch which seems unlikely that 16 and 32s would be available at the current 8 and 16 price points.

You guys are probably right on the iPhone. I'll hold off until Jan anyway to see what happens. One can still hope I guess. I would just hate to buy now and have them throw that curve ball at MWSF. They already did it once with the price drop.

GregA
Dec 17, 2007, 04:22 PM
Nice roundup. Looking forward to 15/1!

I have to say I keep seeing the AppleTV and Mac Mini lines merging in some way. A low end MacMini with HDMI (instead of DVI) and an iPod connector (so it could use the "Apple Composite AV cable" or "Apple Component AV cable" to provide video output!) is pretty close to an AppleTV.

Maybe I'm going mad :).

I would call it very unlikely to see the iPhone go to 8 and 16 since the price drop, along with the fact that the iPod Touch is 8 and 16 giving some differentiation. For the iPhone to move up, so would the Touch which seems unlikely that 16 and 32s would be available at the current 8 and 16 price points.

I think the iPhone memory can move up pretty easily without the Touch changing. Both would have 8 & 16 options, $100 more for the phone features. Why would that be a problem?

3G won't happen yet, since for now it'd make the iPhone thicker, heavier, and reduce battery life.

tiiim
Dec 17, 2007, 04:30 PM
I think the iPhone memory can move up pretty easily without the Touch changing. Both would have 8 & 16 options, $100 more for the phone features. Why would that be a problem?

3G won't happen yet, since for now it'd make the iPhone thicker, heavier, and reduce battery life.

I agree a 16GB version shouldn't be a problem.. one thing we got to realize is the phone market (especially in europe) is very fast moving and Apple will need to do little things like this to keep up with the game... but its only speculation at the moment. If no upgrade to the memory then the 3g iphone will need to be a few months behind to keep up on the game. But Apple do have the habit of changing the way market works so you never know they might just break the mould. :)

NYCMacFan
Dec 17, 2007, 04:30 PM
I would call it very unlikely to see the iPhone go to 8 and 16 since the price drop, along with the fact that the iPod Touch is 8 and 16 giving some differentiation. For the iPhone to move up, so would the Touch which seems unlikely that 16 and 32s would be available at the current 8 and 16 price points.

Best buys right now point to iPods and iMacs for sure. I think the same can definitely be said for iPhones as 3G is still 7-8+ months away if not longer. The Apple TV is a good product and while there could be changes, it complements a Mac quite well.

Two Quick Things

1. I would not be so certain on the iphone not going from 8 to 16. I also personally think that 16 makes the world much easier. Allows me a whole bunch of podcasts and 1-2,000 songs without even thinking about it. Using 8 gigs now, I am constantly having to go and delete podcasts or take a few songs off.

However, who knows when and so if you need a phone, yeah not advisable to wait.

2. I'd also say you HAVE to wait for the macbook as well as a macbook pro. We do not know pricing or how viable the new rumored ultraportable will be as a substitute for the macbook. But it might be something a macbook purchaser will go for. It is also possible that this will lead Apple to change/reconfigure the macbook slightly or alter the pricing.

I don't see it likely that they would refresh the macbook and macbook pro lines at the same time and assume that any new computer will go into the macbook pro line given its age and the new features. But who knows about a minor refresh around the same time...

P.S. I would not expect much of a delay past Jan 15 Macworld announcement with new products. I know they announced the iphone well in advance, but Apple normally has the stores stocked the same day it shows off a new product. We are also hearing too much intelligence from Asian suppliers that suggest production is going full steam now to meet January demand.

gugy
Dec 17, 2007, 04:53 PM
MacPro at MWSF PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't bear this wait any longer!:(

ogun7
Dec 17, 2007, 04:55 PM
I think with Apple's hoard of flash memory manufacturing commitments, they will judge the market sustainability of a storage increase to iPhone. Remember that iPhone was just introduced to Europe, so I'm ambivalent as to what Uncle Steve will do with the iPhone after MacWorld. Maybe the SDK announcement will be enough marketing wise to keep pumping iPhone sales. I don't think they want to tick off European customer who tend to be more astute consumers than us Yanks.

twoodcc
Dec 17, 2007, 05:06 PM
thanks macrumors. nice guide. now i can't wait til macworld!

Jim Campbell
Dec 17, 2007, 05:07 PM
Cinema Displays, Mac Minis - historical data for these updates are inconsistent, with rumors of Mac Mini's possibly being discontinued in the near future.

I'm sorry, but can we stop giving credence to this particular whispering campaign? The Mini has been predicted to be absolutely, definitely getting dropped since ... well, for most of this year, certainly.

There's no actual sales data available from Apple to suggest that the Mini is selling as badly as the anti-Mini camp like to imply, whilst what little indirect sales data we are able to gather (Amazon best seller rankings, f'r instance) suggest the contrary.

Would I like to see Apple beef up the Mini's spec? Yes. Absolutely. Nonetheless, can we pack it in with the completely unfounded speculation that the little guy is getting canned at any moment - this is the sort of thing that eventually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and I'd hate to see the Mini fall victim to it.

Cheers

Jim

wizard
Dec 17, 2007, 05:08 PM
I would call it very unlikely to see the iPhone go to 8 and 16 since the price drop, along with the fact that the iPod Touch is 8 and 16 giving some differentiation. For the iPhone to move up, so would the Touch which seems unlikely that 16 and 32s would be available at the current 8 and 16 price points.

Now I won't sit here and say for sure Apple has a Flash update coming in the new year. I simply don't know, but honestly think it would be a very good idea for them.

What bothers me about your post though is the reference to the Touch. Really it has nothing to do with it. That is any possible configuration of the iPhone. The singular thing that makes the iphone attractive is its cell phone something the Touch doesn't compete with.

Best buys right now point to iPods and iMacs for sure. I think the same can definitely be said for iPhones as 3G is still 7-8+ months away if not longer. The Apple TV is a good product and while there could be changes, it complements a Mac quite well.

This I would tend to agree with if you mean by 'best buys' that they are safe from immediate upgrades. The possilbe exception being the Touch as I see demand being really strong for a Flash upgrade on this just like the iPhone. Both machines could better man their respective positions with more Flash. I'd actually like ot see more RAM in both machines too.


The higher end Mac Pros and MacBook Pros are the biggest do not buys for sure. And the MacBook is definitely a judgement call b/c of the ultracompact rumors.

Good roundup Arn.

Well if this is the year that MWSF gets back to being all things Mac then I'd have to agree. The indications are strong that this will happen. So don't buy anything called a MAC right now.

dave

Glenny2lappies
Dec 17, 2007, 05:08 PM
I agree a 16GB version shouldn't be a problem.. one thing we got to realize is the phone market (especially in europe) is very fast moving and Apple will need to do little things like this to keep up with the game...

I do think that now the dust has settled and we have the iPhone in Europe we can see that it's not the roaring success the hype predicted.

It's too expensive when compared with other (subsidised) phones
The carrier phone plans are way way too expensive - bordering on a mug's game
The legally unlocked phones are stupidly expensive (750 = $1080)
EDGE isn't well implemented and it's just too slow when compared with 3G
There's too many missing features (video, modem, version 1 apps)
There's currently no official third party applications

I'm not saying it's the most desirable phone there is; it's just that it's not quite there yet.

So, at Macworld, it will be interesting to see what's said about the upcoming iPhone SDK and who Apple have signed up as early developers. I'm sure this will come with additional hardware attachments (GPS, etc.).

I'm resigned to the fact that the iPhone update -- e.g. 2nd generation iPhone -- won't be here until next summer, although it may see a 16Gb update before then.

liv4Mac
Dec 17, 2007, 05:10 PM
MacPro at MWSF PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't bear this wait any longer!:(

MWSF??? Please Penryn based MacPro before the 31st of December 2007. Please!! Paa-Leezzz.

Glenny2lappies
Dec 17, 2007, 05:17 PM
What bothers me about your post though is the reference to the Touch. Really it has nothing to do with it. That is any possible configuration of the iPhone. The singular thing that makes the iphone attractive is its cell phone something the Touch doesn't compete with.

I was having a beer with some friends the other day when one of them produced his iPod touch. He's using it as a PDA replacement. And it wasn't bad in this role; the contacts and calendar are great. Sure, it's missing the phone, but it does almost as much as a PDA (with a much better browser, iTunes and an interface to die for).

If the upcoming SDK opens up the touch and the built-in applications get updated, this could well be a killer gadget, albeit without the phone.

Just think; all you need is a "phone back" to attach to the touch and you've got everything!

ogun7
Dec 17, 2007, 05:19 PM
There's no actual sales data available from Apple to suggest that the Mini is selling as badly as the anti-Mini camp like to imply, whilst what little indirect sales data we are able to gather (Amazon best seller rankings, f'r instance) suggest the contrary.

The mini wouldn't be discontinued due to lack of sales, it would be due to lack of a sizable margin. The main value that Apple has in investors' eyes is the sales margin or markup. The difference between costs of parts, costs of marketing and research leveraged per unit and sales price makes Apple quite a bit of money. The reason why the mini has a laptop hard drive in it is not due to space, but the cost of 2.5" drives split across all the product lines that carry them: iMacs, MacBooks and MacBook Pros. This allows them to aggressively drive down the purchase cost in bulk from their suppliers. They don't necessarily pass on the savings to us, they make their income right there. The shrinking costs of parts and the maintenance of prices on the product line is how Apple makes Wall Street happy.

The mini's price doesn't allow them to have a sizable markup, therefore it's not a product Apple likes.

mashny
Dec 17, 2007, 05:30 PM
MacPro at MWSF PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't bear this wait any longer!:(

Amen!

sagefool1975
Dec 17, 2007, 05:53 PM
Amen!

Seriously! My Power Mac Dual G5 died last week (logic board / disk controller started corrupting disks, wee) and there is no way I'm buying the current incarnation. Those new models need to make it out the door!

MrCrowbar
Dec 17, 2007, 05:56 PM
The mini's price doesn't allow them to have a sizable markup, therefore it's not a product Apple likes.

Well, it's definitely a nice product for those switchers. I know the bottom line Macbook has way better bang for the buck and costs a little more; but there are plenty of people that don't want a laptop or spend that much money for the first Mac experience.

I love the mini. Quiet, small, power efficient. Want to get one for quite a while now, but they're still a tad too expensive and underpowered. If the high end model cost as much as the low end currently, and the low end was (pricewise) dropped accordingly, I would take one. Just to have a little home server that records my eyeTV shows when my Laptop's not at home, to have the Time Machine Drive (and all those other externals) connected so I can backup wirelessly, etc. All things you can do without having a keyboards, mouse and screen attached. I can use my Macbook and use remote Desktop when I need it.

I would be sad if the Mini was to disappear. Prices would got up on eBay... they're already higher there than what my edu discount gets me for a new one.

MacFly123
Dec 17, 2007, 05:58 PM
You guys are probably right on the iPhone. I\'ll hold off until Jan anyway to see what happens. One can still hope I guess. I would just hate to buy now and have them throw that curve ball at MWSF. They already did it once with the price drop.

I guarantee they will add 16 GB to the iPhone. It is beyond obvious. Now if they don\'t do it at MacWorld it will absolutely be soon after, BEFORE the 2nd Gen comes out. Now the pricing I\'m not sure. I wouldn\'t be surprised if they drop the price of the 8 GB again and do something like 8 GB iPhone $299 and 16 GB $399.

billystlyes
Dec 17, 2007, 06:05 PM
The mini's price doesn't allow them to have a sizable markup, therefore it's not a product Apple likes.

Wow, how greedy of them! Dell and HP make affordable computers with lower margins. I guess Apple thinks everyone is rich or wants an all-in-one iMac. I'm telling you they are wrong on both counts. Leave the mini be!

dal20402
Dec 17, 2007, 06:20 PM
The current lineup of Cinema Displays is certainly long in the tooth, and the displays are overpriced at first blush... but they're a better deal than they appear (particularly at educational prices). The reason is superior panel technology.

Both the 20" and 23" models are some of the only remaining displays available in those size categories where you can be dead certain you'll get a S-IPS panel. In the 20" category it's nearly impossible to find them (and even Apple's own 20" iMac switched to TN garbage). In the 24" category it's a crapshoot -- many suppliers including Dell package whatever panels they can easily get and sell them under the same model numbers. All current 2560x1600 30" displays are still S-IPS. We'll see how long that lasts.

Most consumer panels have moved to TN, a technology that is cheap and features fast refresh rates but results in awful, constantly shifting color. I find TN displays unusable for viewing or editing photos, and unpleasant for daily use. (Sadly, only TN displays are currently available in laptops at the moment. The one 15.4" S-IPS panel, which Apple never used, is no longer being manufactured.)

The 20" has always been an excellent product. The 23" had problems with pink backlighting early on but those have been resolved in newer models. If I were in the market for a display I would not hesitate to buy a 20" or 23" Cinema Display today.

TurboSC
Dec 17, 2007, 06:23 PM
thanks for the Holiday recap Arn :)

gugy
Dec 17, 2007, 06:42 PM
Seriously! My Power Mac Dual G5 died last week (logic board / disk controller started corrupting disks, wee) and there is no way I'm buying the current incarnation. Those new models need to make it out the door!

Do you have applecare?
My Quad has so many problems that Apple already committed to replace it for a new machine. I am waiting for the update in order to go ahead and replace it.
If you have applecare and you have a history of problems, Apple definitely could replace your machine. Go for it!

Pandaboots
Dec 17, 2007, 07:06 PM
As a stockholder I don't like this post suggesting to not increase Apple's sales this 1/4 by waiting to buy. However, as an Apple consumer I think it's a nice buyer's guide recommendation post. Seeing how imminent changes are literally around the corner, it will pay off to wait a bit. Either you get the new goodies you dreamed of or you get the old ones at a substantial savings...You can't lose by waiting at this point. Now my financial side has a thought - luckily most Apple consumers do not read Macrumors and are happily padding Apple's bottom line for their fiscal Q1 and also padding my wallet too. :p

Tom B.
Dec 17, 2007, 07:58 PM
I really want to get a MacBook on Christmas day, but would it be stupid not to wait the extra 21 days till Macworld?

I need this laptop to last me at least 2 or 3 years, so obviously it would be annoying if it is no longer the newest model within the first month of me owning it.

chadder007
Dec 17, 2007, 08:44 PM
As much as I want a Mac Mini.....Im not going to get one until they come out with an upgrade to it. It has been neglected for way too long for a major update.

Darkroom
Dec 17, 2007, 09:11 PM
im going to say what other have been afraid to post on this thread:

i want the iMac to update at MWSF!

:p

seriously, even if it's just a minor bump like the MacBook recently saw, that's all i need to get in line for one.

TurboSC
Dec 17, 2007, 09:16 PM
I really want to get a MacBook on Christmas day, but would it be stupid not to wait the extra 21 days till Macworld?

I need this laptop to last me at least 2 or 3 years, so obviously it would be annoying if it is no longer the newest model within the first month of me owning it.

I'd say wait it out. it's only 21 more days. I'm gonna be purchasing my first apple laptop and decided to hold off until then, as much as I'd love to have one sitting under the tree.

mashny
Dec 17, 2007, 09:37 PM
Seriously! My Power Mac Dual G5 died last week (logic board / disk controller started corrupting disks, wee) and there is no way I'm buying the current incarnation. Those new models need to make it out the door!

Well, I have a G4 400 that's eight years old. It still works perfectly, but is too slow to do much of what I want it to do. Forget about doing 8x10 color Photoshop files (filters take forever, there's often a delay, and it can only take 1.5 Gb of RAM); it has a lot of trouble with online videos (its graphics card has 16 Mb of memory on it)... So I have no problems with the longevity of Apple's products, it's just that at this point, my computer is obsolescent.

kenaustus
Dec 17, 2007, 09:39 PM
It's a wild guess as to what Steve J will introduce at MWSF. We know that the first 10-15 minutes will be spent going over some very nice sales numbers and then Steve gets into the stuff we're interested in.

Since the 08 versions of iLife and iWork have already hit the market there will be more time for hardware, so the question is what hardware?

Last year a lot of time was spent on the iPhone and I would be very surprised if there wasn't another push in this area. Apple wants there 1% of the market (and a lot more) before 12/31/08 so January is the time for pushing to the next level. That might mean a second design - it's simply time for another one - and it might mean some good news with Intel Inside. I'm wanting one, but will wait until the SDK is out and a lot of apps are available, 16 (hopefully 32) gig versions available for a decent price and there is at least 1 or 2 more OS X updates to finalize the platform the way Apple wants it to be.

In terms of Macs, I believe it will depend on what Intel is delivering. I believe that Apple will move to new Macs as the new chips become available and things look nice in that area.

gonnabuyamac
Dec 17, 2007, 11:08 PM
I'm just starting off as a graphic and web designer, and i soooo want an ACD to go with my MBP. I sure hope they update them. I'm waiting at least until after MWSF to buy one.

I've heard their great for color accuracy... hopefully that's true.

My experiences with MBP screens have not been so positive. (I'm on my 5th screen!)

hollywoodmacguy
Dec 18, 2007, 12:08 AM
I'm just starting off as a graphic and web designer, and i soooo want an ACD to go with my MBP. I sure hope they update them. I'm waiting at least until after MWSF to buy one.

i'm in almost exactly the same boat. am waiting for MWSF to see what announcements, if any, are made about both the MBP and the ACD, both of which i'm eager to get ASAP. my thinking/strategy re january 15th is:

- no MBP update/refresh/redesign/hint of imminent change: immediate purchase of current model (17")

- MBP update/refresh/redesign: immediate purchase of new model as soon as it's available, assuming the the lead time is less than the iPhone was last year...

- no ACD update/refresh/redesign: hold off on purchasing. rationale: they will be updated eventually/soon and i'll have my new MBP and can wait - as painful as it will be - for the newer display.

- ACD update/refresh/redesign: immediate purchase of new model as soon as it's available. exception: if for some reason the design is not sweet (hard to imagine) would then by the old model (today's current model) at presumably a lower price.

related note: read in one of the many threads on this topic that, with only one exception, :apple: has never redesigned the mac pro without simultaneously updating the displays that go with them. if that's true and if it's also true that the mac pro is on the cusp of a major penryn update and possible redesign, seems logical that the displays are also on that same cusp... two big ifs in that last statement i realize...

bottom line: can't wait for MWSF!

sagefool1975
Dec 18, 2007, 01:26 AM
Well, I have a G4 400 that's eight years old. It still works perfectly, but is too slow to do much of what I want it to do. Forget about doing 8x10 color Photoshop files (filters take forever, there's often a delay, and it can only take 1.5 Gb of RAM); it has a lot of trouble with online videos (its graphics card has 16 Mb of memory on it)... So I have no problems with the longevity of Apple's products, it's just that at this point, my computer is obsolescent.

That's cool your G4 still works. If my Dual G5 still worked I'd be super down with keeping it, but when buying a new one I don't want to buy a model that is over a year old - that would be just crazy talk in the land of computers! ;)

tiiim
Dec 18, 2007, 03:27 AM
I do think that now the dust has settled and we have the iPhone in Europe we can see that it's not the roaring success the hype predicted.

I agree, Europe is a very tough market to crack... and maybe the iphone hasnt been all out "WOW" as every had hope.

[LIST]
It's too expensive when compared with other (subsidised) phones

True especially on a contract! You can pick up the N95 free these days and the specs are a lot better.. just shame its a) a Nokia b) does not look as nice


The carrier phone plans are way way too expensive - bordering on a mug's game


Agree the tarriff for the iphone is totally not good - great if you want the net, but voice and text are very poor unless you go for the higher end and a lot for expensive tariff's. Again looking at the n95 on o2 you can get it free and the same deal for 35 makes the iphone tariff look very poor indeed (except for the data).


The legally unlocked phones are stupidly expensive (750 = $1080)


That is a different story.. but its all down to marketing and an o2/apple contract that will be up to the trading standards to sort out...

EDGE isn't well implemented and it's just too slow when compared with 3G
not as well implemented but the take of 3g in the UK is not as essential as rest of the world, however 3g coverage on the other networks are very good compared to edge.

There's too many missing features (video, modem, version 1 apps)

Agreed and i hope Apple's some how software updates these features asap.

There needs to be an iphone type news (SDK, 2nd gen, mem boost) at macworld.

TurboSC
Dec 18, 2007, 03:28 AM
i'm in almost exactly the same boat. am waiting for MWSF to see what announcements, if any, are made about both the MBP and the ACD, both of which i'm eager to get ASAP. my thinking/strategy re january 15th is:

- no MBP update/refresh/redesign/hint of imminent change: immediate purchase of current model (17")

- MBP update/refresh/redesign: immediate purchase of new model as soon as it's available, assuming the the lead time is less than the iPhone was last year...

bottom line: can't wait for MWSF!

^ that sums up my priorities :)

Orng
Dec 18, 2007, 07:35 AM
As long as we're talking about what to buy and when, this is just a heads up for Canadian buyers; Bestbuy Canada seems to be selling certain iPods for close to or matching US prices. The 8 gig Touch is matching the US price of $299, a $30 saving. (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=25654)

Yes, I know, with the current exchange rate, they should be matching US prices anyway. But we know many retailers are not. However, an 8gig touch for 299 (as it should be) might save you a trip across the border.

I don't know if Best Buy in the US is also offering discounts on these items.


On that same topic, Walmart is running this dumb ad (no surprise) where the guy accidentally gives away the iPod intended for his son to the paperboy. So he goes to Walmart for a cheap replacement iPod while the voice over prattles on about low prices and easy shopping. I don't shop at Walmart as a rule, but I had to investigate this claim that iPods were somehow cheaper and easier to get there. After fighting through the throngs of unsmiling people, I can assure you that you will save money at Walmart; exactly 3 cents on every iPod model as compared to the Apple Store. On top of that, most of the toy prices I checked on the way out were the same or higher than Toys'R'Us, just so ya know.

Yvan256
Dec 18, 2007, 09:18 AM
[...] The mini's price doesn't allow them to have a sizable markup, therefore it's not a product Apple likes.

If it wasn't profitable they would never have spent even more money by designing an intel motherboard for it. The fact that it made it to the intel transition does prove something.

And if it was really all only about profit, they would never have made it this small, in an anodized aluminum casing, with a 2.5" hard drive and laptop slot-sload optical drive. This isn't a PC, it's a Mac.

You don't know what the markup is on the Mac mini or any other Mac, so you can't compare markups either. It's the only low-cost Mac that allows Apple to increase their marketshare (even if the sticker price is twice as high as a low-end PC - no "value" arguments here please, sticker price only), so I don't see why Apple would not like it.

If they can make a profit on a 89$ iPod shuffle, I'm sure they can make a profit on a 599$ screen-less, keyboard-less, mouse-less computer.

freddiecable
Dec 18, 2007, 09:38 AM
I think there is a need for Apple to release a smaller footprint iPhone (nano). 2.5" and half the thickness of the current iPhone. iPhone as it is - is a bit too big for many people. And - 2.5" would still be usable for multitouch.

eqinespecter
Dec 18, 2007, 09:41 AM
The iPhone, however, has more pressure to receive timely updates due to ongoing competition. The iPhone is rumored to see its next major revision in Mid-to-Late 2008. The biggest upgrade expected is a 3G chipset which has been promised for 2008. Whether or not to buy an iPhone now really depends on the your individual need for 3G and if potentially waiting until late 2008 is feasible.I may go ahead and buy 2 iphones for x'mas. Any suggestions on whether to buy from Apple or from a local ATT store? Was wondering if the phones from Apple might be more likely to have been software updated?

Butthead
Dec 18, 2007, 10:00 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)


.....The iPhone, however, has more pressure to receive timely updates due to ongoing competition. The iPhone is rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/06/3g-iphone-and-1500-super-laptop-in-2008/) to see its next major revision in Mid-to-Late 2008. The biggest upgrade expected is a 3G chipset which has been promised for 2008. Whether or not to buy an iPhone now really depends on the your individual need for 3G and if potentially waiting until late 2008 is feasible.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/17/apple-store-shipping-dates-and-buyers-guide-recommendations/)

Always difficult to predict more than 6 months ahead with the cellular phone market which is in a constant state of flux. What if Apple can't get the batterty life up as much as they want, would they instead just leap frog to 4G?
Verizon confirms 4G access, to share with AT&T
http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/11/29/verizon.chooses.lte.for.4g/

Connections in real situations are expected to be slower but still easily exceed the peak speeds of Verizon's current EVDO Revision A network, which peaks at 1.4 megabits per second downstream in actual use. This and the CDMA calling network that form the backbone of Verizon's service are ultimately expected to phase out as a result of the announcement.

The changeover to LTE is also poised to create a significant ripple effect in the cellular industry, increasing compatibility between Verizon and other networks. Vodafone, which owns a significant stake in Verizon, also plans to migrate from its incompatible GSM and HSPA networks to LTE. It will effectively let Verizon customers roam on its high-speed connection without changing devices or relying on a dual-mode phone such as the BlackBerry 8830, which supports both CDMA and GSM.

AT&T is similarly positioned to switch to LTE and could for the first time allow roaming between its network and Verizon's, increasing the overall coverage between the two services. Customers from AT&T with LTE cellphones should also be able to port their phones to Verizon's newly open network without being locked to the latter provider's choice of software. However, the break will also isolate smaller carriers such as Alltel and Sprint, both of whom have either revealed no immediate plans beyond 3G (in the case of Alltel) or which have expressed a desire to use WiMAX instead of LTE, as with Sprint's upcoming Xohm service.

A joint trial of LTE between Verizon and Vodafone will start sometime in 2008, though neither company has said when it plans to launch a commercial service. These networks are so far predicted to launch in 2009 or 2010.

Wu states 3G is a 'niche' market even in Europe & Japan.

AmTech: 3G for iPhone is 'niche technology'
http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/12/17/3g.iphone.is.niche.tech/

As to when the iPhone gets 16GB upgrade, as soon as it (memory) comes down in price---no need of additional/revised iPhone for this simple upgrade. Such an upgrade would likely result in a drop in price on the 8GB, with the 16GB being at the top price tier currently the same as the 8GB. At some point the 8GB would likely be discontinued, just like 4GB.

Nightrain
Dec 18, 2007, 10:58 AM
Seems to me that buying an iPhone now is a pretty safe purchase. As Arn mentioned earlier, it's not subsidized, so no activation discounts apply. More importantly, however, iPhones (especially unlocked versions) are selling for way more than $400 on ebay. Say a Gen 2 iPhone comes out in 6 months and you want to upgrade. Well, I would imagine the value of a Gen 1 iPhone will take a hit, but I could still see them selling (after you unlock them) for 300-400 used. So to upgrade to the Gen 2 phone, it would essentially cost you about $0-$100, maybe $200 at MOST. Does that logic make sense? Am I forgetting something? I think that makes it an easy decision if you're on the fence right now.

hollywoodmacguy
Dec 18, 2007, 11:14 AM
^ that sums up my priorities :)

let's hope this priority/wish becomes a reality! :)

JGShort
Dec 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
The iPhone is a pretty cool unit.

It is almost more than I can stand. The iPhone is compact and cool and I want one now (or at least for Christmas)! but I have three problems with it:

Its price - The phone itself is somewhat expensive, but I would be over that in a couple of months, after the bills were paid.
The costly monthly two-year contract - This is an ongoing expense that requires some evaluation and planning to fit it into my budget.
The built in camera - I am sure that I am not the only potential buyer out here who works at a defense industry firm where cameras are absolutely not allowed in the facility. Although it could most likely be hidden in my bag and brought without being discovered. If it were discovered, I would have a strong risk of being fired. Besides, if I had something as cool as the iPhone, I would most certainly want to "show off" a bit to my peers rather than to keep it hidden.



I think it would be helpful to Apple's business and customers if they could offer an iPhone without that built-in camera. I have heard of options for removing the camera, either do-it-yourself or for a fee, but this would risk breaking a costly device and also voiding the warranty.

Please, Apple, offer an iPhone without the camera, and I will buy at least two of them.

nhexima
Dec 18, 2007, 12:35 PM
im going to say what other have been afraid to post on this thread:

i want the iMac to update at MWSF!

:p

seriously, even if it's just a minor bump like the MacBook recently saw, that's all i need to get in line for one.You said it! I'm constantly gritting my teeth these days to see if there will be an iMac update. There probably won't be, and I'll regret having waiting another month... or maybe even... they will announce another update, and it won't come out for 3 months :eek:. So close to ordering a refurb 24' from the online store...

MagnusVonMagnum
Dec 18, 2007, 01:05 PM
Sadly, the quest for a new Mac is over for the moment for me. I waited over 6 months for a Mac with a 'decent' GPU. No such beast surfaced.

Basically, for around $650 total, I got an AMD Athlon X2 4000+ dual-core with 2Gig of DDR2 low-latency ram, an Nvidia 7900 GS video card (hardly state-of-the-art, but considerably faster than the standard 7300GT the Mac Pro comes with), a 320 GB 7200RPM Seagate Sata hard drive, a 20x DVD-RW drive with Lightscribe and Windows XP Home Edition plus reused my Hercules Game Theater XP sound card and breakout box. I'm thinking of selling him back the 4000+ for one of his own older computers to upgrade and ordering a 6000+ or 6400+ which will plug right in the same motherboard for $175-185 or so and are faster than several of the Intel Core 2 Duos (not the top ones, of course). I just reused my old ATX case and bought a new 430 watt power supply and one of my older 40Gig drives as a 2nd scratch drive for use with Photoshop and my OTHER 40Gig drive will go into the PowerMac, which I mostly use for secure Internet and disc burning.

Now I'm in no way saying that machine is as fast (cpu wise) as some of the newer Macs with Intel Core 2 Duos (although given most of them use laptop versions, they're not exactly top of the line to begin with) and it's not a high-end SLI gaming rig either compared to high-end Windows machines, but I feel what I'm getting for $650 compared to what I'd get for $650 from Apple (basically a Mac-Mini with ultra-slow laptop parts and a totally UNUSABLE for 3D integrated graphics unit) flat out blows the Apple option away. This thing will play all the latest Windows games (no DirectX 10, but not much uses it nor will for some time and I don't like Vista as it is now). Everything is super snappy and far more reliable (big step up from 98SE anyway). I'd prefer to have OSX with XP running off Parallels or boot camp for a game, but the lack of GPU options on the more reasonably priced Macs was a major major put off and with Apple it's either the hardware they offer or nothing at all. I'm not a huge gamer, but I want to be able to play TODAY's games and expect to play future games for at least a year or so. Macs (running Boot Camp) are barely running today's games, let alone tomorrow's. This $650 machine will undoutedly do better than a stock MacPro for gaming and it costs almost 4x as much.

I guess if I'm going to take the "don't need 3D" route, I can just keep on using my PowerMac G4 for word processing and Internet. Certainly I could pop a 1.5 GHz G4 card in there for a few hundred bucks and get snappier performance from non-game apps (I don't do video production, etc., so that's a non-issue). I guess what I'm saying is Apple needs to start thinking long and hard about its low and mid-end options if it wants to attract new customers or keep customers that have one of each. I WANTED a Mac this time. But Apple didn't want me when they decided what GPUs to use. I don't understand why they constantly keep up with the latest and greatest CPUs (in their class at least), but don't 'bother' when it comes to graphics. Weren't Macs once KNOWN for their graphics? It's kind of sad, really.

I'll be looking at a laptop some time next year. I hope they can sort out the keyboard and yellow-tint LED issues on the MBP with the next upgrade and/or get a decent GPU into the regular Macbook and I'll buy an Apple. Otherwise, I'll have to rethink that too. I need a good screen, keyboard and GPU more than I need something like Firewire 800, for example.

snowleopard
Dec 18, 2007, 06:57 PM
Sadly, the quest for a new Mac is over for the moment for me. I waited over 6 months for a Mac with a 'decent' GPU. No such beast surfaced.

As much as I hate PC's, I hear you. MacRumors has had the Mac Pro in their buyers guide as "Don't Buy. Updates soon!" for what seems like months and months now. With what seems like eternity since an update from Apple, I think a lot of people are just sick of waiting.

silentfink
Dec 26, 2007, 02:45 PM
Thank you all for the insight regarding the next incarnation of the MBP. If you were in the market for a refurbished MBP, when would you purchase it? I don't need a ton of power - I'm buying it mostly for screen real estate. Right now the Apple online store has them listed at $300 less than a new one. Is $1699 the lowest I'll see or could you see them get as far down as $1599 or $1499 prior to or soon after any big announcements?

Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it!

macPunk
Jan 12, 2008, 11:45 PM
What do you think?

JBaustian
Jan 13, 2008, 09:06 PM
Well, I have a G4 400 that's eight years old. It still works perfectly, but is too slow to do much of what I want it to do.... my computer is obsolescent.
My mom's G4 was replaced by a Mac Mini this Christmas... also long overdue.

Not all Mac enthusiasts want or need to be on the cutting edge. I've found that four years is about the limit, based on my own pattern of upgrading about every four years:
1987: Mac Plus (an upgraded 512k, 8 mHz)
1991: Mac IIci (25 mHz)
1995: Mac Performa 630 (80 mHz?)
1999: Mac G3 (350 mHz)
2005: Mac G5 (Dual PPC 2.5 gHz)

note: suffered way too long with the G3

Based on what I've seen with the Intel dual-processor models, I'll be ready for one in 2009... but I doubt that I'll have to throw away the PPC G5.

takao
Jan 14, 2008, 05:32 AM
What do you think?

i would like it ... too bad it isn't going to happen anytime soon with the current "more gadgets... we need more gadgets" apple attitude

but hey others have waiting years for a cheap headless mac and in the end it finally arrived so never rule out everything

Roy
Jan 14, 2008, 09:17 AM
i would like it ... too bad it isn't going to happen anytime soon with the current "more gadgets... we need more gadgets" apple attitude

but hey others have waiting years for a cheap headless mac and in the end it finally arrived so never rule out everything

Are you talking about the Mac mini?

macPunk
Jan 14, 2008, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=takao;4747177]
too bad it isn't going to happen anytime soon with the current "more gadgets... we need more gadgets" apple attitude



I agree, but a single core2 with a micro atx form factor and a actual upgradeable video card would be a wonderful system that could easily be under a grand. Why do we need two Xeon server processors Apple went from underpowered to overkill in 1.5 years. I'm buying a used dual G5 because thats the closest thing right now to "mid level"