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MacRumors
Dec 20, 2007, 01:24 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The US Patent Office has revealed a number of recent patent filings by Apple.

The first notable filing deals with automatic shutdown of a device and/or host after certain conditions are met, such as after a portable media player's battery is finished charging, or after a file transfer is complete. Apple suggests a scenario where an iPod or iPhone is plugged into an iMac to charge, but the user wishes for both to go to sleep or shutdown after the charge is complete (which may take several hours). The application, #20070294546 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=3&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%22Apple+Computer%22&OS=%22Apple+Computer%22&RS=%22Apple+Computer%22), initially filed June 19, 2006 was made public today.

The other filing of note, patent application #20070288886 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=24&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%22Apple+Computer%22&OS=%22Apple+Computer%22&RS=%22Apple+Computer%22), deals with attempts to fight software piracy.

A digital rights management system permits an application owner to cause code to be injected into the application's run-time instruction stream so as to restrict execution of that application to specific hardware platforms. In a first phase, an authorizing entity (e.g., an application owner or platform manufacturer) authorizes one or more applications to execute on a given hardware platform. Later, during application run-time, code is injected that performs periodic checks are made to determine if the application continues to run on the previously authorized hardware platform. If a periodic check fails, at least part of the application's execution string is terminated--effectively rendering the application non-usable. The periodic check is transparent to the user and difficult to circumvent.

Apple has thus-far resisted industry trends towards activation of software, and currently only uses such methods in some of its most costly professional software. While it is clear that Apple has been working on methods to combat piracy, it remains to be seen how far Apple will employ the methods in its software. Readers are reminded that only a portion of the applications filed end up making it to shipping products.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/20/apple-applies-for-autmoatic-shutdown-and-piracy-fighting-patents/)



Bonte
Dec 20, 2007, 01:41 PM
Filemaker pro has some stiff DRM-like protection, i could easily see iTunes DRM (of some sort) become standard for music, video, e-books and sofware.

CANEHDN
Dec 20, 2007, 01:46 PM
I think that's a great idea. I hope something like this comes about soon.

Squonk
Dec 20, 2007, 01:50 PM
This could be used to prevent all of Apple's software and Mac OS from running on non-Apple sold hardware. So the hackintosh's would be dead in the water. Sounds like a good thing for Apple. I've been curious to try OSX on my HP mini tower just to see it work, and software protection would lock that out.

~Shard~
Dec 20, 2007, 01:50 PM
The automatic shutdown ability makes sense - it would be a nice little touch. As for the piracy-fighting measures, good luck with that - it's an uphill battle to say the least. Personally, I respect Apple's current "honor system" when it comes to their software and do not take advantage of it.

notjustjay
Dec 20, 2007, 01:50 PM
I think that's a great idea. I hope something like this comes about soon.

Which, the charge-and-shutdown? Or the anti-piracy code?

Or were you just hoping to make First Post? ;)

I'm not a big fan of anti-piracy or activation measures, but I definitely understand the need for them. Personally I don't tend to pirate Apple software because I find it to be high-quality and well-priced and such a joy to work with, that I *want* to give money to reward the people who wrote it. There may be some merit to the psychology of Apple trusting its users to do the right thing, and me wanting thusly to live up to that expectation.

Ultimately I think that's the best anti-piracy measure you can have. Make quality software that's well-priced, and trust your users to do the right thing.

GoodWatch
Dec 20, 2007, 01:55 PM
This could be used to prevent all of Apple's software and Mac OS from running on non-Apple sold hardware. So the hackintosh's would be dead in the water. Sounds like a good thing for Apple. I've been curious to try OSX on my HP mini tower just to see it work, and software protection would lock that out.

IMHO the hackintosh's are no real threat and history tells us that most, if not all, protection schemes are circumvented.

Brianstorm91
Dec 20, 2007, 01:56 PM
Automatic shutdown is a great idea.

Stella
Dec 20, 2007, 01:57 PM
The "Apple Applies For Automatic Shutdown " sounds like patent abuse.

plumbingandtech
Dec 20, 2007, 01:57 PM
well-priced

Yah. Except define exactly "well-priced"...

It could be zero and the thieves will still dowload it illegally. Justification is a wonderful thing to those that pirate.

It costs too much, I wasn't going to buy it anyway, the Developer is big, he won't missed my money.. blah blah...

lofight
Dec 20, 2007, 01:57 PM
Really nice idea, you just click on a button, turn computer off after charging ipod, downloading file and rendering images, and you leave come back computer is off and it did all your tasks.. :D clever

crazycap
Dec 20, 2007, 02:06 PM
apple seems to patent everything they can think of, whether it a hit or miss...

I guess they figure out they have nothing to loss

drierp
Dec 20, 2007, 02:08 PM
Why doesn't apple just dedicate a USB port to have power even if the machine is off (yet plugged in).

I'd rather have the machine off, from a power standpoint, anyway.

Simple is better..

-Peter

tveric
Dec 20, 2007, 02:09 PM
Yeah, what a great idea - if your goal is to cause a pain in the ass for people who legitimately buy the software.

Anyone remember what happened when Microsoft introduced activation schemes for Windows XP? A living nightmare for a huge number of legitimate buyers of Windows XP, that's what. Meanwhile, pirated versions on the net were either hacked, cracked, or simply the "non-activation" corporate version of XP. In other words, it did next-to-nothing to combat piracy (casual "make-a-copy-for-my-friend" was the only thing this eliminated) while causing headaches for legit users that wanted to transfer their XP copy to another hardware platform, or even just change out an existing video card/motherboard/etc.

I had one friend who, after buying XP and attempting to move it to a new box 6 months later, ended up getting fed up with the activation "piracy protection" after he couldn't get it to work at all on the new box, and simply downloaded the corporate version. Good job Microsoft, drive actual buyers of your DRM-laden **** to piracy.

Do we really want to see Apple go farther down this road? Think before you answer.

GoodWatch
Dec 20, 2007, 02:14 PM
Why doesn't apple just dedicate a USB port to have power even if the machine is off (yet plugged in).

I'd rather have the machine off, from a power standpoint, anyway.

Simple is better..

-Peter

I just bought the USB power adapter.....

Clive At Five
Dec 20, 2007, 02:14 PM
While I disagree with software piracy, I don't like the idea of Apple being paranoid about it. And THEY were the ones who bashed the "Big Brother" image in 1984...

-Clive

hagjohn
Dec 20, 2007, 02:14 PM
Isn't that what Windows Product Activation does?


A digital rights management system permits an application owner to cause code to be injected into the application's run-time instruction stream so as to restrict execution of that application to specific hardware platforms. In a first phase, an authorizing entity (e.g., an application owner or platform manufacturer) authorizes one or more applications to execute on a given hardware platform. Later, during application run-time, code is injected that performs periodic checks are made to determine if the application continues to run on the previously authorized hardware platform. If a periodic check fails, at least part of the application's execution string is terminated--effectively rendering the application non-usable. The periodic check is transparent to the user and difficult to circumvent.

thevofl
Dec 20, 2007, 02:19 PM
Steve Jobs said that the way to combat internet piracy of music is to offer the music at a reasonable price.

I wonder why he doesn't employ that philosophy with his own software. hmmmmm

Consultant
Dec 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
apple seems to patent everything they can think of, whether it a hit or miss...

I guess they figure out they have nothing to loss

That's because Apple allowed Bill Gates access to the original Mac OS, which resulted in the knockoff otherwise known as windows.

Slip
Dec 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
Yeah, what a great idea - if your goal is to cause a pain in the ass for people who legitimately buy the software.

Anyone remember what happened when Microsoft introduced activation schemes for Windows XP? A living nightmare for a huge number of legitimate buyers of Windows XP, that's what. Meanwhile, pirated versions on the net were either hacked, cracked, or simply the "non-activation" corporate version of XP. In other words, it did next-to-nothing to combat piracy (casual "make-a-copy-for-my-friend" was the only thing this eliminated) while causing headaches for legit users that wanted to transfer their XP copy to another hardware platform, or even just change out an existing video card/motherboard/etc.

I had one friend who, after buying XP and attempting to move it to a new box 6 months later, ended up getting fed up with the activation "piracy protection" after he couldn't get it to work at all on the new box, and simply downloaded the corporate version. Good job Microsoft, drive actual buyers of your DRM-laden ***** to piracy.

Do we really want to see Apple go farther down this road? Think before you answer.

You know what, I think I prefer the currents Apple software management...
The idea of the setting the iPod to sync and then shut down looks quite good, though sounds like something that could be achieved in Automator...
But hey, Im not the one prgramming it ;)

Mydel
Dec 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
I like the way it is now. ALL anty-piracy patents can/will be circumvent sooner or later. Im not taking advantage and all my Apple software is legit. But for example I hate that iwork require activation. If I loose the key than good luck with activation. It happend to me twice:confused: in case of Diablo. And they wont replace my code without proof of purchase what would mean shipping disks to US. That cost more less the same what a new game.
So I think they should NOt go down the Microsoft road. And we all know that keygen are available all over the net

Small White Car
Dec 20, 2007, 02:22 PM
This looks to me like something they'd do with iPhone software, not Mac software.

They've already made it clear they want to control what happens on iPhones very, very closely. This would fit that model. And the patent comes just in time for the SDK announcement in February.

So the timing and the motivation all match when it comes to the iPhone. On the Mac side, nothing's really changed recently, so why suddenly change the way they do business there?

notjustjay
Dec 20, 2007, 02:23 PM
It could be zero and the thieves will still dowload it illegally. Justification is a wonderful thing to those that pirate.
It costs too much, I wasn't going to buy it anyway, the Developer is big, he won't missed my money.. blah blah...

The big guys, the counterfeiters, and the cheapskates are going to pirate it anyway. Nothing you can really do to stop them by force. Registration codes? Google "<productname> registration key" and you've got one. Dongles, activation phone-homes, or other tomfoolery? Google "<productname> activation crack" and you're in.

The ones you want to sell to are the casual thieves, the college students, the regular guys like you and me. Show me a product that's well written and wows me and then tell me it only costs $x (you're right, the magic number will vary) and I'll say "Wow?! Really, that's all they want?? Sold! I'll buy one right now!" Cases in point, from my own experience: DEVONthink, Salling Clicker, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, iLife, iWork, Final Cut Express, ScenalyzerLive (a DV capture tool for the PC, cost me a paltry $30 and saved me hours of work, I would have happily paid $99+).

Show me a bloated, crappy, crashing product and then tell me it costs 10 times more than I expect to pay, and I'll say "Hmm... I wonder if my friend Joe has a copy I could borrow..." Or, the most honest thing I can say is "I'll live without it then". Either way, no sale. Cases in point: various Microsoft and Adobe products.

The key is, there's virtually nothing you can do about piracy. Any attempts to do so only end up hurting the real users. In the end, stopping piracy is not the problem you need to solve. Increasing your sales is the problem you need to solve. Make a good product, charge a good price, and watch your sales increase. Isn't that the whole reason we're all on Macs in the first place?

0racle
Dec 20, 2007, 02:23 PM
The "Apple Applies For Automatic Shutdown " sounds like patent abuse.
Especially since many file transfer applications have that feature already. Moving it to an OS API is very handy and would be a good reason to upgrade, I doubt it's patentable.

rockosmodurnlif
Dec 20, 2007, 02:23 PM
Aren't there third party solutions that shut a computer down after a task is completed?

When my Powerbook fell and broke, I took a backup I made of the hard drive and copied it onto an older Powerbook. This DRM method seems to want to make it so that I would not only have a broken PowerBook but also broken applications. Thanks for looking out for me?

slicecom
Dec 20, 2007, 02:24 PM
I'm not a big fan of anti-piracy or activation measures, but I definitely understand the need for them.

I don't. The only people they punish are those who legally buy and use the software. Do you think having to activate programs has stopped piracy on windows? There are a multitude of cracks available for just about every piece of software out there.

The end effect of activation measures is those who would normally pirate, find ways to continue doing so, and those who spend their hard earned money will be inconvenienced, annoyed and treated as if they're guilty of pirating.

GoodWatch
Dec 20, 2007, 02:27 PM
That's because Apple allowed Bill Gates access to the original Mac OS, which resulted in the knockoff otherwise known as windows.

No. Both Stevie and Billy had a looksee at the marvellous work done at Xerox PARC.

tveric
Dec 20, 2007, 02:27 PM
The end effect of activation measures is those who would normally pirate, find ways to continue doing so, and those who spend their hard earned money will be inconvenienced, annoyed and treated as if they're guilty of pirating.

That's it in a perfect nutshell. To think of Apple going this way with all of their software makes me cringe. It would be amazingly short-sighted for a company which has shown as much vision as they have in the past.

Slip
Dec 20, 2007, 02:29 PM
No. Both Stevie and Billy had a looksee at the marvellous work done at Xerox PARC.

Ah, those short sighted Xerox fellows :rolleyes:
They coulda made mega bucks and then they go and show it all of, bet the engineers loved that. What was it that Apple gave them in return?

krye
Dec 20, 2007, 02:30 PM
What a waste of time, money, and energy. These software companies need to learn that people are going to steal their software no matter what they do. Maybe software shouldn't cost $300 or $500 a pop. Maybe if Final Cut was $99, no one would steal it. Or if jam packs were $19.99 no one would steal those either.

I do not steal, nor do I condone stealing software. If I can't afford something, then I don't buy it. Besides, most of the time I have found that there is a cheaper, if not free, alterative to most things out there. These software companies need to start giving people a reason to not steal their stuff.

drierp
Dec 20, 2007, 02:30 PM
I just bought the USB power adapter.....

In the case of the iPhone for example.. that'd involve switching back and forth between the power adapter and the computer (for syncing)..

I actually do that now by the way, and find it somewhat annoying..

If there were a port (or all of them) that was powered when plugged in, it'd solve that annoyance without wasting cpu cycles/power when I just want it to charge..

JayLenochiniMac
Dec 20, 2007, 02:43 PM
Steve Jobs said that the way to combat internet piracy of music is to offer the music at a reasonable price.

I wonder why he doesn't employ that philosophy with his own software. hmmmmm

He already does. The real question is why is Apple wasting their time with piracy-fighting?

DrMoray
Dec 20, 2007, 02:43 PM
This looks to me like something they'd do with iPhone software, not Mac software.

Agreed. It seems like it could be used to control the software signing process. Especially if Apple has some sort of sandboxing method for 3rd party iPhone apps.

pohl
Dec 20, 2007, 02:44 PM
IMHO the hackintosh's are no real threat...
It could be a useful mechanism for Apple to have if they ever intended to do the unthinkable and sell a shrink-wrapped OSX for non-Apple PCs.

deathshrub
Dec 20, 2007, 02:45 PM
In the case of the iPhone for example.. that'd involve switching back and forth between the power adapter and the computer (for syncing)..

I actually do that now by the way, and find it somewhat annoying..

If there were a port (or all of them) that was powered when plugged in, it'd solve that annoyance without wasting cpu cycles/power when I just want it to charge..

It's called a powered hub.

TurboSC
Dec 20, 2007, 02:49 PM
It could be a useful mechanism for Apple to have if they ever intended to do the unthinkable and sell a shrink-wrapped OSX for non-Apple PCs.

hahah Apple, developing for the Windows platform, would be a sight to see.. they better hire triple the Tech guys, cause there's going to be errors all night long.

GoodWatch
Dec 20, 2007, 02:52 PM
hahah Apple, developing for the Windows platform, would be a sight to see.. they better hire triple the Tech guys, cause there's going to be errors all night long.

Ehhhhh, once you run OS X on a PC it isn't a 'Windows platform' anymore. In fact, the innards of my iMac are very PC like :rolleyes:

OrangeCuse44
Dec 20, 2007, 02:53 PM
As for an automatic shutdown, i use a small app called iWannaSleep. Although its not programmable to shut down the computer after a certain task finishes, you can set a timer for it to either sleep or shutdown after a designated amount of time. You can also fall asleep to iTunes music and just select for your Mac to stop itunes after say, 15 minutes.

137489
Dec 20, 2007, 02:53 PM
Yeah, what a great idea - if your goal is to cause a pain in the ass for people who legitimately buy the software.

Anyone remember what happened when Microsoft introduced activation schemes for Windows XP? A living nightmare for a huge number of legitimate buyers of Windows XP, that's what. Meanwhile, pirated versions on the net were either hacked, cracked, or simply the "non-activation" corporate version of XP. In other words, it did next-to-nothing to combat piracy (casual "make-a-copy-for-my-friend" was the only thing this eliminated) while causing headaches for legit users that wanted to transfer their XP copy to another hardware platform, or even just change out an existing video card/motherboard/etc.

I had one friend who, after buying XP and attempting to move it to a new box 6 months later, ended up getting fed up with the activation "piracy protection" after he couldn't get it to work at all on the new box, and simply downloaded the corporate version. Good job Microsoft, drive actual buyers of your DRM-laden ***** to piracy.

Do we really want to see Apple go farther down this road? Think before you answer.

In a sense I have to agree. I used to build my own PC's. After my last one died and I was in a rush, I bought an off-the-shelf HP. I then tried to load my software on it. The activation gave me an error that it was already active on another machine and I had to call Microsfot support. We got into a big argument. First he demanded the serial number of the old machine. I told him it did not have one as I built it myself. He swore at me and said that MS software is not for people who build their own machines, only machines you buy fully assembled at a store and "you damn I/T people need to learn that." Finally to shut him up, I told him the serial number was SJH1. He asked what kind of a number is that. I told him a derivative of my initials and the first PC MS ever gave me trouble about. He then gave me an activation code to type in, and then got ticked because I wrote it down before typing it in. He was waiting for a response from me to read him the next screen.

Everytime I add memory, etc I have to re-activate and sometimes have to call due to the software thinking it is a different machine.

Apple software is cheap enough, thus why I think it is not pirated that much.

tribulation
Dec 20, 2007, 03:02 PM
of all apple patents i hope the activation/antipiracy one doesnt ever come to fruition. i'm not at ALL for pirating software and do NOT do it. but putting more energy into trying to stop piracy is and always will be totally useless

activation doesnt even work. windows is easily cracked. all of adobe suite is cracked. & the list goes on forever. sad but entirely true. no amount of anti-anything will ever stop a determined hacker. it just is impossible to accomplish & history proves that & will over & over until the end of time probably

even advanced methods have been broken. look at intels on chip piracy prevention. it was cracked. & then theres stuff like DVD CSS & macrovision & even i believe the bluray and hddvd schemes are cracked. & oddities like the playstation mod chip hacks come to mind. i even admit i did that one for backups of PS games. dongles like the xskeys, iLok, Rockey,Sentinel & so on are also easily reset or cracked and add extra expense to the end software program since the developer has to cover the actual cost & ongoing support cost for users that get stuck with those faulty things. and for anyone thats owned a program that uses those damned things have you ever lost one & had to replace it? it usually costs about the same as buying the program all over again which can be thousands of dollars

the only argument against this is that more advanced piracy schemes make it harder in hopes of people giving up. i'm sure thats true for a small bit of people but most that pirate software will just wait for the crack and then its usually just a quick click and the program is cracked and free

activation doesnt work either.like i said look at MS or adobe or who ever and you can find an easy 1 click patch to bypass it in seconds

the 1 thing more complicated antipiracy and activation junk does well is,it makes endless problems for LEGITIMATE PAYING CUSTOMERS!!!!! WE are the ones who suffer

apple has never used activation or annoying registration schemes on their OS & i pray they never do.maybe this patent is just to give mac developers a built in scheme to use who knows.hope not
i hope that they just wanteed to patent to protect some idea they had just because it was something different and new,not something that they will use or want others to. inventors do that all the time & lets hope apple did it just for that reason to
what a long post for nothing :p

Huby
Dec 20, 2007, 03:11 PM
The copy-protection thing won't be to bloat and cripple their own Applesoftware, but it's all 4 these hollywood movie Inc $ickoos:
Bleu-ray and/or HD-DVD films etc will only work with "trusted" :rolleyes: hardware..
Vista came out nearly 2 years later just to be "trusted" :D;)
read more here: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html a hard (and long) reading, but U'll never see a movie, Vista or any other DRM related subject (AND this thread as well) the same again.

Antares
Dec 20, 2007, 03:21 PM
apple seems to patent everything they can think of, whether it a hit or miss...

I guess they figure out they have nothing to loss

I wish I could do that. I have tons of ideas. However, filing a patent is a slow and very expensive process....costing many thousands of dollars for a single patent. Apple can easily afford it but not typically a small business or average person.

0racle
Dec 20, 2007, 03:28 PM
Ah, those short sighted Xerox fellows :rolleyes:
They coulda made mega bucks and then they go and show it all of, bet the engineers loved that. What was it that Apple gave them in return?
Xerox (remember them, they owned it not the engineers) got Apple stock out of it.

/dev/toaster
Dec 20, 2007, 03:35 PM
I wonder when the RIAA and the MPAA will start to wake up and realize that the more restrictions they put on content, the greater chance people are going to pirate it. They keep jacking the prices up and trying to lock things down more.

What they are saying is that I am a criminal. Well, guess what I am not. But they are pushing me to the limit. Apple is helping contribute to this. Its just silly and I can't wait until they wake up.

We don't need more DRM, we don't need stronger DRM. We need reasonable prices and reasonable means to obtain and play the content we desire.

Hardware that shuts down automagicly will be hardware I don't purchase, I don't care who produces it. Its totally unacceptable.

bigwig
Dec 20, 2007, 03:41 PM
What could possibly be novel or patentable about automatic shutdown? "Do X when Y" is so trivial a 10 year old could come up with it.

DaBrain
Dec 20, 2007, 03:45 PM
Yeah, what a great idea - if your goal is to cause a pain in the ass for people who legitimately buy the software.

Anyone remember what happened when Microsoft introduced activation schemes for Windows XP? A living nightmare for a huge number of legitimate buyers of Windows XP, that's what. Meanwhile, pirated versions on the net were either hacked, cracked, or simply the "non-activation" corporate version of XP. In other words, it did next-to-nothing to combat piracy (casual "make-a-copy-for-my-friend" was the only thing this eliminated) while causing headaches for legit users that wanted to transfer their XP copy to another hardware platform, or even just change out an existing video card/motherboard/etc.

I had one friend who, after buying XP and attempting to move it to a new box 6 months later, ended up getting fed up with the activation "piracy protection" after he couldn't get it to work at all on the new box, and simply downloaded the corporate version. Good job Microsoft, drive actual buyers of your DRM-laden ***** to piracy.

Do we really want to see Apple go farther down this road? Think before you answer.

One can only hope this is not the forerunner of a windows like genuine advantage activation system. IM a legit owner of all my apple software and hardware, BUT if they go to this windows type crap IM full time linux! I really don't want that as I love OSX but this is one of the main reasons I left WinBlows, it's registry and all the other crap they invent in the name of piracy. When it starts to have a major impact on me then, well it's time to switch. I pray that apple does not implement anything like windows activation! :eek:

kjr39
Dec 20, 2007, 03:57 PM
I do believe that the activation piece is related more towards the iphone than it is towards regular software...

shadowfax
Dec 20, 2007, 04:04 PM
2 retarded patent applications. I guess someone at Apple failed to get any real research done this year and had to file some fakey patents to look like he was doing something or face getting fired. But that's just my guess.

tuneman07
Dec 20, 2007, 04:07 PM
First off I can't believe you can actually patent an automatic shutdown, haven't programs been doing this forever? What's next the qwerty keyboard? Patent on clicking? things are getting a little ridiculous. I also didn't know mac OSX didn't use any kind of verification codes, being a Windows users I assumed everyone did that. And I have definitely lost codes leading to me needing to "steal" copies of stuff that I bought legitimately. I can understand the need for some anti piracy however its kinda like leaving the door open at Best buy vs. having a glass door that's locked. Certainly one could bash the door in and go get whatever they want but 99 percent of people won't do that whereas if the door is just open all the time people would probably steal a lot more.

Snowy_River
Dec 20, 2007, 04:11 PM
I wouldn't consider iWork to be some of Apple's most costly pro software, but it has an activation code.

In any event, I don't have anything against activation, unless it gets annoying. If they can come up with a means of doing this that is relatively transparent to the end user, then I would have no problem with it at all.

AidenShaw
Dec 20, 2007, 05:05 PM
What could possibly be novel or patentable about automatic shutdown? "Do X when Y" is so trivial a 10 year old could come up with it.

This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

joefinan
Dec 20, 2007, 05:06 PM
If you click on the patent number in the article, it takes you to a website. Is that website the real US Patent website?? They can't even spell:

"Assignee Name and Adress:"

Eraserhead
Dec 20, 2007, 05:14 PM
No. Both Stevie and Billy had a looksee at the marvellous work done at Xerox PARC.

No its well known MS were given Apples source code to develop Office, Sculley didn't set the conditions tight enough so legally MS were allowed to copy the source code, MS would actually have been stupid if they didn't ;).

SiliconAddict
Dec 20, 2007, 05:33 PM
http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/new_cussing.gifIf Apple adopts product activation I will go back to Windows. It is the SINGLE reason I purchased a Mac. If that difference goes away...frankly I have no issues using Windows itself.
Go ahead Apple. Try it. See what happens. :mad: http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif

This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

Heck I've been doing this on Nero since 1999.

esquire360
Dec 20, 2007, 05:51 PM
How is auto shut down a patent?

Whacked

I liked Scenalyzer great program iMovie reminds me of it

ChrisA
Dec 20, 2007, 06:04 PM
This could be used to prevent all of Apple's software and Mac OS from running on non-Apple sold hardware. So the hackintosh's would be dead in the water. Sounds like a good thing for Apple. I've been curious to try OSX on my HP mini tower just to see it work, and software protection would lock that out.

No, this would not stop anyone who seriously wants to build a "hackintosh". One could do things like take before and after snapshots or run the system inside a virtual machine that is programed to watch for any overwrites of the software and log them. This method in the patent would only work for casual users who don't understand much about the insides of computers.

DanB91
Dec 20, 2007, 06:06 PM
im actually happy about this. maybe apple is planning to open OS X to different hardware.

yes many people here are against that but i am 1000% for it!!!!!
u have no idea how much i want this.

alex69uk
Dec 20, 2007, 06:38 PM
This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

Have the people saying that this is old or that it has been done for years actually read the patent?

This isn't a simple case of software running on a computer, then shutting it down when an operation is complete. This checks a PERIPHERAL device to make sure that it done what it is supposed to do - so this action isn't even happening on the main computer. The device, such as an iPhone or iPod finishes what it is doing, gets shut down automatically, then the computer is shut down automatically.

This is different enough to warrant its own patent application.

Dagless
Dec 20, 2007, 07:05 PM
How bizarre, Apple emailed me when I bought my PowerBook wanting to do some kind of research interview or something. They rang up and I told them I'd like to see a feature that would shut down my computer when certain parameters were met. Such as downloading a file whilst also charging an iPod or sending a large email.

kaiwai
Dec 20, 2007, 07:15 PM
I don't. The only people they punish are those who legally buy and use the software. Do you think having to activate programs has stopped piracy on windows? There are a multitude of cracks available for just about every piece of software out there.

The end effect of activation measures is those who would normally pirate, find ways to continue doing so, and those who spend their hard earned money will be inconvenienced, annoyed and treated as if they're guilty of pirating.

True. In the end I think companies just need to accept that there will always be a section of society who will refuse to pay for software no matter how cheap, how generous the licence is or how great the software is. Oracle CEO Larry Ellison said they're not interested in going after pirates - they're no loss to them because ultimately if you wanted their software you'd also want all the services and support that goes with it. Those who pirate had no intention of purchasing it in the first place - thus they were profit neutral.

One way to counter; why not offer Mac OS X as a download to purchase? I mean, how many out there ordered their copy and downloaded a copy because you wanted it now? Sell it for $30 cheaper for download, and price he pirates out of the market.

Porco
Dec 20, 2007, 07:40 PM
I think it'd be great if Apple gets the DRM patent, because I think Fairplay + iTunes proves they would use them as little as possible.

On the other hand, I think it'd be horrific if Microsoft got a similar patent because Apple hadn't bothered.

The time to freak out is if Apple does evil things with the patents, not merely applying for them.

AidenShaw
Dec 20, 2007, 07:54 PM
Have the people saying that this is old or that it has been done for years actually read the patent?

This isn't a simple case of software running on a computer, then shutting it down when an operation is complete. This checks a PERIPHERAL device to make sure that it done what it is supposed to do - so this action isn't even happening on the main computer. The device, such as an iPhone or iPod finishes what it is doing, gets shut down automatically, then the computer is shut down automatically.

This is different enough to warrant its own patent application.

As a software engineer and architect with several patents granted and a handful pending, I fail to notice a great distinction between the two cases.

In case A (Nero, etc): A thread monitors the task activity, and when it's done it calls the OS shutdown API. In some cases, it might be a simple check in the application exit code to call the OS shutdown API instead of exiting.

In case B (the alleged IPod patent): A thread calls the OS USB APIs to monitor power drain on the USB power controller. When the drain reaches a threshold, the OS shutdown APIs are called. Perhaps the thread will communicate via some protocol with the second process, and there will be a positive acknowledgement that the task is done.

I'm sorry if we disagree, but I wouldn't want to go to court and try to defend that case A and case B are fundamentally different. I'd rather persecute (oops, I mean prosecute) a 13 year old kid for having a website that annoys me.

... system permits an application owner to cause code to be injected into the application's run-time instruction stream ....

Later, during application run-time, code is injected that performs periodic checks are made to determine if the application continues to run on the previously authorized hardware platform. If a periodic check fails, at least part of the application's execution string is terminated--effectively rendering the application non-usable.

The periodic check is transparent to the user and difficult to circumvent.

OMFG, can you say "rootkit"?

Apple is trying to patent a rootkit that will rewrite applications on the fly to do things unrelated to what the application designer intended.

After the Sony debacle, software companies are scared ####less of using any hidden techniques.

I can't believe that Apple would dare to implement this....

gwangung
Dec 20, 2007, 08:22 PM
As a software engineer and architect with several patents granted and a handful pending, I fail to notice a great distinction between the two cases.

In case A (Nero, etc): A thread monitors the task activity, and when it's done it calls the OS shutdown API. In some cases, it might be a simple check in the application exit code to call the OS shutdown API instead of exiting.

In case B (the alleged IPod patent): A thread calls the OS USB APIs to monitor power drain on the USB power controller. When the drain reaches a threshold, the OS shutdown APIs are called. Perhaps the thread will communicate via some protocol with the second process, and there will be a positive acknowledgement that the task is done.

I'm sorry if we disagree, but I wouldn't want to go to court and try to defend that case A and case B are fundamentally different. I'd rather persecute (oops, I mean prosecute) a 13 year old kid for having a website that annoys me.

Has state of the art law changed? It was emphasized to me (far too many years ago) that patents were granted based not necessarily on WHAT was done, but HOW it was done.

twoodcc
Dec 20, 2007, 08:42 PM
i think that the piracy part could be to stop from installing OS X on pcs

psychofreak
Dec 20, 2007, 08:45 PM
i think that the piracy part could be to stop from installing OS X on pcs

Possibly delaying the time it takes for hackers to achieve this for a new OS from around 3 days before launch to 2 days...

AidenShaw
Dec 20, 2007, 08:58 PM
Has state of the art law changed?

No, but the lawyers have changed.

What should be, and what happens when a case goes to trial - are often quite different.

What I'm saying is not that "A" is right and "B" is wrong, but that I have no confidence that in the courtroom the "A" lawyers will win and the "B" lawyers will lose.

The right lawyer and the right expert witness will win, regardless of the facts or "justice" of the case.

i think that the piracy part could be to stop from installing OS X on pcs

You mean "non-Apple PCs", right?

There's virtually no hardware difference between an Apple and a Dell, except for the Apple DRM software that is there to make sure that OSX runs on only the limited configurations deemed "worthy" by the Gods in the Temple of Cupertino.

It seems that some of the Dell laptops are almost identical hardware to the Apple laptops, and "hacking" is really quite easy.

Fanbois must have trouble with that inconvenient truth....

notjustjay
Dec 20, 2007, 09:17 PM
I liked Scenalyzer great program iMovie reminds me of it

I know this is a bit off topic, but yeah, that program was brilliant. In an age where PC's were barely fast enough to keep up with capturing DV, here was a tiny, lightweight, fast program that did scene splitting, time-lapse capture, and so on. I had a PC that was not quite able to keep up with DV stream playback when using a big, memory hungry video editing program. This tiny utility did the trick, and I kept using it even years later. Possibly the BEST $30 I have EVER spent. Even now, on the Mac, I yearn for something similar... I do use iMovie for its ability to capture into small files per scene.

All goes to show, make a good program, charge a good price, and people will pay.

Digitalclips
Dec 20, 2007, 09:39 PM
Steve Jobs said that the way to combat internet piracy of music is to offer the music at a reasonable price.

I wonder why he doesn't employ that philosophy with his own software. hmmmmm

What are you kidding? Apple software is amazingly well priced! Both the home stuff and the Pro end. Heck an update to Media 100 used to cost thousands, now the entire FCPro suite is not much over a grand. iLife suite's price is beyond belief ...!

You mean "non-Apple PCs", right?

There's virtually no hardware difference between an Apple and a Dell, except for the Apple DRM software that is there to make sure that OSX runs on only the limited configurations deemed "worthy" by the Gods in the Temple of Cupertino.

It seems that some of the Dell laptops are almost identical hardware to the Apple laptops, and "hacking" is really quite easy.

Fanbois must have trouble with that inconvenient truth....

So ... are you suggesting you'd like to allow OS X to run on every PC out there and therefore see the end of Apple not long there after? Apple is a hardware company that just happens to also make the best OS and software. Take away hardware sales and you'd be saying goodbye to the best software company out there.

No. Both Stevie and Billy had a looksee at the marvellous work done at Xerox PARC.

I don't think Billy did actually, he was too busy with his IBM dealings. This is a good, reasonably balanced account of those turbulent times.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_43/b3905109_mz063.htm

DanB91
Dec 20, 2007, 10:48 PM
So ... are you suggesting you'd like to allow OS X to run on every PC out there and therefore see the end of Apple not long there after? Apple is a hardware company that just happens to also make the best OS and software. Take away hardware sales and you'd be saying goodbye to the best software company out there.

i had a long discussion on how apple could counter act this by not licensing OSX to other companies and have apple still make macs. Everyone refuted that point, but i still believe it could work

i really wanna see the reaction to this if/when it happens. im sure few people will be happy (like me) and many will be mad. and after a while everyone will love it. just like the intel transition :)


and also something to ponder on: the EULA states that OSX may only be run on an "apple branded computer", with nothing descrbing it. so technically i could take one of the apple stickers i have and put it on my pc and i wouldnt be braking the EULA. anyone think this is true?

Digitalclips
Dec 20, 2007, 10:53 PM
i had a long discussion on how apple could counter act this by not licensing OSX to other companies and have apple still make macs. Everyone refuted that point, but i still believe it could work

i really wanna see the reaction to this if/when it happens. im sure many people will be happy and many will be mad. and after a while everyone will love it. just like the intel transition :)

Well, so long as your plan helps my AAPL holding's value ... :)

Bonte
Dec 21, 2007, 02:05 AM
http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/new_cussing.gifIf Apple adopts product activation I will go back to Windows. It is the SINGLE reason I purchased a Mac. If that difference goes away...frankly I have no issues using Windows itself.
Go ahead Apple. Try it. See what happens. :mad: http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif

Better get used to it, osX itself won't get this protection but iTunes DRM can lock all media and software both on Apple and Windows machines. Linux will be the only holdout until iTunes(-DRM) gets ported to the platform.

thevofl
Dec 21, 2007, 03:04 AM
What are you kidding? Apple software is amazingly well priced! Both the home stuff and the Pro end. Heck an update to Media 100 used to cost thousands, now the entire FCPro suite is not much over a grand. iLife suite's price is beyond belief ...!

The education pricing has skyrocketed (while the non-educational prices remained the same), while others have come down.

Logic went from 249 to 449 (10% off Full price)
OSX went from 69 (Tiger) to 116 (Leopard) (10% off Full price)
iLife and iWork went from 59 to 71 (10% off Full price)
Final Cut Express went from 149 to 179 and lost Soundtrack (10% off Full price)
Logic Express went from 149 to 179 (10% off Full price)

I have looked in educational sites and they reflect the increase in price.

Compare this to CS3. I just paid $519 for the Master Collection (www.collegesoftware.org).

I am scared to see what they are going to do with the next updates to Aperture, Shake, and especially Final Cut Studio. (10% off FCS $1299 is $1169).

I hardly think of FCS being over a grand to be a smoking deal. A full priced FCS costs as much as the MacBook it is on. iLife and iWork are well priced. OSX is too, but it is hard to say that the others are as well.

To give you perspective, I completed a course in Final Cut. I asked the class who has access to a legitimate copy of FCS away from the school (be it on their home Mac or on a friend's or . . . ) and I was the only one who had a legitimate copy. Three had bootlegs and two ask me to use my install discs so that they can have it too. (I said no.) An instructor overhearing the inquiry said that her class is primarily made up with students who use bootlegs.

Yes there are astronomically priced software out there, but come on! The software is unattainable for most; it turns it into an exclusive software.

Mechcozmo
Dec 21, 2007, 03:10 AM
The education pricing has skyrocketed (while the non-educational prices remained the same), while others have come down.

I can get a number of these pieces of software for cheaper at my university's bookstore. iWork was $39.99 before tax.

Huby
Dec 21, 2007, 03:35 AM
So ... are you suggesting you'd like to allow OS X to run on every PC out there and therefore see the end of Apple not long there after? Apple is a hardware company that just happens to also make the best OS and software. Take away hardware sales and you'd be saying goodbye to the best software company out there.

imho Apple is back as a big boy thanks to iPod sales (you're right: iPod = hardware :-) ) and iTunes, not thanx to the sales of Mac hardware or the OS-X. It makes a great OS and good software since it went os-8, but that didn't make the company wind-eggs..
If time = not money 4 you, AND you're kinda geek, then you can try run OS-X on on a PC; but this's not an average joe option.

xeex
Dec 21, 2007, 04:31 AM
I think the only software that wasnt successfully cracked was Logic 7 with dongle uptil this day. Until Apple dropped dongle altogether with Logic Studio. Logic 7 was one tought nut to crack, other than that i dont know of any other software that wasnt pirated or cracked.
So, maybe thats what Apple wants to introduce some sort of internal dongle
built in into hardware that interlinks with software......
Time will tell what it is.

ngdesign
Dec 21, 2007, 05:04 AM
I don't quite understand.. is that to fight OSX on non-apple product?

Eraserhead
Dec 21, 2007, 06:25 AM
I can get a number of these pieces of software for cheaper at my university's bookstore. iWork was $39.99 before tax.

It is only the general edu store that the prices are high, as they can't check you are a student. The HE store still gives a really good educational discount.

eoren1
Dec 21, 2007, 08:43 AM
This new DRM patent is absolute garbage and I too would run back to the comforts of MS if it ever was put in place.
If enacted, I can imagine not being able to upgrade my RAM (let alone the hard drive) on my new macbook without getting 'approval' from Apple first.
Here's hoping this patent never sees the light of day and remains locked away in some filing cabinet.

ajward
Dec 21, 2007, 08:46 AM
Yeah, what a great idea - if your goal is to cause a pain in the ass for people who legitimately buy the software.

I had one friend who, after buying XP and attempting to move it to a new box 6 months later, ended up getting fed up with the activation "piracy protection" after he couldn't get it to work at all on the new box, and simply downloaded the corporate version. Good job Microsoft, drive actual buyers of your DRM-laden ***** to piracy.

Do we really want to see Apple go farther down this road? Think before you answer.

I installed XP on a wintel laptop and kind of liked it. Liked it... till I needed to swap out the DVD module for a floppy drive to copy a spreadsheet for a co-worker. Both windows xp and office xp went into "Reduced Functionality" mode until I reactivated the software because of a significant system change!!!!!!:confused:

Putting a floppy drive in your computer is significant??? Jeezus!
That night I went back to my old and pretty reliable win2k that night and Xp sits in a box in my closet. Bleah!!

I much prefer my :apple:

Maccus Aurelius
Dec 21, 2007, 12:16 PM
If I ever see OS X with a product key on the back, I will be pissed. As a long time patron that has gladly paid for all of my software, the thing that keeps me buying this stuff in particular is how free and easy using it is, especially just getting it installed. I don't want some godawful online activation scheme like Windows does. I don't want my OS to have an expiry date until I go through the rigmarole of licensing it, thus hardwiring it to that one computer.

This much is certain: If Apple creates a DRM activation scheme for OS X, they will lose an unbelievable amount of business. If they care about their bottom line, they will not bother.

That said, Apple is notorious for throwing millions of patents at the wall to see which one sticks, so this could just mean nothing, and be little more than some afterthought cooked up for future reference.

ahasver
Dec 21, 2007, 12:36 PM
I think that's a great idea. I hope something like this comes about soon.

Sometimes you have to wonder if there is something that Apple could do that wouldn't get somebody here to state here "great idea can't wait" even if it is some scheme that charges an extra 5 bucks for every hour you sit in front of your mac. :cool:

morespce54
Dec 21, 2007, 12:36 PM
The automatic shutdown ability makes sense - it would be a nice little touch. As for the piracy-fighting measures, good luck with that - it's an uphill battle to say the least. Personally, I respect Apple's current "honor system" when it comes to their software and do not take advantage of it.

...
Ultimately I think that's the best anti-piracy measure you can have. Make quality software that's well-priced, and trust your users to do the right thing.

I completely agree with that.

AidenShaw
Dec 21, 2007, 02:48 PM
...till I needed to swap out the DVD module for a floppy drive ...

Both windows xp and office xp went into "Reduced Functionality" mode...

Sounds perfectly logical that using a floppy requires "reduced functionality" :eek:

morespce54
Dec 21, 2007, 03:25 PM
This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

Toast was having this option too...

morespce54
Dec 21, 2007, 03:43 PM
Have the people saying that this is old or that it has been done for years actually read the patent?

This isn't a simple case of software running on a computer, then shutting it down when an operation is complete. This checks a PERIPHERAL device to make sure that it done what it is supposed to do - so this action isn't even happening on the main computer. The device, such as an iPhone or iPod finishes what it is doing, gets shut down automatically, then the computer is shut down automatically.

This is different enough to warrant its own patent application.

Yes but is an external HD is considered a "PERIPHERAL device"?
If so, then it's been done already. Now, if by "PERIPHERAL device" they mean something that can also work without any computer, that's maybe a different business...

MikeTheC
Dec 21, 2007, 05:38 PM
I'm really not a fan of software patents, and neither should you folks.

All it does is stifle the creativity and lead to feature lockout for anyone unwilling or unable to negotiate a patent-share treaty with a given relevant software patent holder. This whole situation already has all the appearance and pleasantness of a minefield about it. There's no reason to add to it. You'd think that Apple, particularly due to their involvement with the FSF/OSS crowd and even the BSD crowd would, one might say, "think different"...

And with regards to DRM'ing their software, well...

Those of us who use Macs are already savvy enough to know something else, both viable and desirable, exists beyond Windows. Don't think we aren't therefore even more "aware" than just of Apple's alternative-to-Windows product offerings.

RichardI
Dec 22, 2007, 06:09 AM
This ticks me off. It is the principle I don't agree with. Once I have bought a piece of software, I own it! Agreed, that I should only use it on one computer at one time, but I should be able to install it on as many computers as I like at the same time. I realise there is no way to police this, but that doesn't change the fact that it's the right way. Period.
I don't care what the SLA says, in a truly democratic society, no SLA would hold up in court! My 2 cents.

Rich :cool:

DisturbedLen
Dec 22, 2007, 10:42 AM
This could be in preparation of releasing OSX on any Intel box. Windows users are used to Product Keys... Just a thought...
:confused:

zweigand
Dec 22, 2007, 11:30 AM
A digital rights management system permits an application owner to cause code to be injected into the application's run-time instruction stream so as to restrict execution of that application to specific hardware platforms. In a first phase, an authorizing entity (e.g., an application owner or platform manufacturer) authorizes one or more applications to execute on a given hardware platform. Later, during application run-time, code is injected that performs periodic checks are made to determine if the application continues to run on the previously authorized hardware platform. If a periodic check fails, at least part of the application's execution string is terminated--effectively rendering the application non-usable. The periodic check is transparent to the user and difficult to circumvent.
Couldn't this just be related to HD-DVD/Blue-Ray?

Eniregnat
Dec 22, 2007, 02:37 PM
I own a lot of software. I pay for licence upgrades. I keep my keys secure. I don't like software that has to connect to a server to check the DRM, and I refuse to use software that does periodic connections to the mother ship.

I had a recording product, that I paid for, that did this. When ever I edit media, I don't use the Internet or other software aps. It decided that it had failed too often to check the licence and said I needed to upgrade my licence key- the problem on the day it happened I was working remotely. Lucky for me I had other software solutions available as well as backup hardware.

I do not use software that has to connect to the mother ship more than once for verification. I'll even pay extra for a version that doesn’t need external Internet verification (like those that will work with a USB key). If Apple goes this rout- I may move to another platform.

MikeTheC
Dec 24, 2007, 11:28 AM
While I am planning on buying an iMac (hopefully soon), one of the inherent advantages in buying an Intel-based computer is the immediate access to "normal" mainstream releases of the various Linux distros.

In many ways, buying an Intel-based Mac is the ultimate choice.

maestro55
Dec 24, 2007, 07:21 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

I think the auto shutdown it a neat idea and would be nice in terms of using less power. As for the anti-piracy scheme this I dread in the sense that of is a pain in the ass. I am a huge fan of open source software; however, I still have no problem buying Apple software because ofthe quality. Anti-piracy
methods may not Change the quality of the software the very idea of it bothers me.

Wild-Bill
Dec 25, 2007, 12:26 AM
The other filing, patent application #20070288886, deals with attempts to fight software piracy.

I guess Apple is just on a roll pissing off its customers. With ~10% or so of the overall computer market share, they should NOT be treading down this path.

One has to wonder what is going on behind those closed doors at Cupertino. We've got the ThinkSecret settlement, then Apple going after the Fake Steve Jobs site using intimidation tactics to get it shut down, and now this DRM b.s. UNBELIEVABLE. And WHY isn't the Fake Steve Jobs story on the front page??? It's on [H]ardOCP which isn't even a Mac site.

Here's a nice nugget from The Inquirer on the DRM debacle.....

TOYMAKER Apple has decided that Microsoft's Windows Genuine Advantage is so wonderful that it is trying to patent something similar.
Apple have been doing wonderful things this year to really miff its loyal fan base and it seems it wanted to close the year by nicking the thing that annoys even the most loyal Microsoft user.
The outfit has updated the patent application it calls "Run-time Code Injection to Perform Checks".
This patent tells the story of how Apple boffins invented the idea of a digital rights management system that could restrict use of an application to specific hardware platforms.
Apparently, the software phones home for an authenticity check.
If the software is pirated then Jobs Mob shall deem the software unworthy in its sight and make it unusable.
Currently, Apple does not dabble in the area of DRM-style security and would be well advised to stay away from it. After all WGA is one of the main reasons that people have stayed away from Vista.
It seems that Apple has been concentrating on its Iphone and Ipod gadgets so much that it has failed to notice that Microsoft got prior art on DRM that stuffs up the operating system and annoys the user.

Less than 80 posts on this subject so far, yet the polling on the front page has no less than 209 "negatives" assigned to it.

Take the hint, Apple. We all know you read these forums to get the pulse of the consumer. Don't pull a Micro$oft. You would be well advised to dump this patent, or at the very least forget all about it.

Geeze......... the people at Apple need to PUT DOWN THE IPHONES AND GADGETS and concentrate on the damn computers for once. :rolleyes: How about getting the Mac Pro out the door?????? And try not to screw up the video card options. :rolleyes:

Of course this nuisance of a patent could shut down applications if someone were to put in a non-Apple blessed video card because they want a more powerful option.

Unbelievable, Apple. Unbelievable. :mad::mad::mad:

MikeTheC
Dec 25, 2007, 11:59 AM
This new DRM patent is absolute garbage and I too would run back to the comforts of MS if it ever was put in place.
If enacted, I can imagine not being able to upgrade my RAM (let alone the hard drive) on my new macbook without getting 'approval' from Apple first.
Here's hoping this patent never sees the light of day and remains locked away in some filing cabinet.

I would never say that DRM is a good idea, however your comment here is quite foolish.

You'd rather run back to the warm and protective arms of Microsoft? Are you nuts? You'd rather choose an OS with massive DRM built into it, and massive DRM enablement built into it, AND one with all the bugs, holes, security gaffs, bloat, etc., etc. than one with DRM but none of those other issues?

MikeTheC
Dec 25, 2007, 12:05 PM
I guess Apple is just on a roll pissing off its customers. With ~10% or so of the overall computer market share, they should NOT be treading down this path.

One has to wonder what is going on behind those closed doors at Cupertino. We've got the ThinkSecret settlement, then Apple going after the Fake Steve Jobs site using intimidation tactics to get it shut down, and now this DRM b.s. UNBELIEVABLE. And WHY isn't the Fake Steve Jobs story on the front page??? It's on [H]ardOCP which isn't even a Mac site.

Here's a nice nugget from The Inquirer on the DRM debacle.....



Less than 80 posts on this subject so far, yet the polling on the front page has no less than 209 "negatives" assigned to it.

Take the hint, Apple. We all know you read these forums to get the pulse of the consumer. Don't pull a Micro$oft. You would be well advised to dump this patent, or at the very least forget all about it.

Geeze......... the people at Apple need to PUT DOWN THE IPHONES AND GADGETS and concentrate on the damn computers for once. :rolleyes: How about getting the Mac Pro out the door?????? And try not to screw up the video card options. :rolleyes:

Of course this nuisance of a patent could shut down applications if someone were to put in a non-Apple blessed video card because they want a more powerful option.

Unbelievable, Apple. Unbelievable. :mad::mad::mad:

Well, I understand your concern, but don't you think we should see something just a little bit more definitive on Apple's actual intended usage of this before we go on a hell-bent-for-leather rampage against them? Believe me, if Apple does go down the "dark path" I'll be the first to decry them and champion whatever causes become necessary at that point. But given Steve's track record, don't you think he's earned (at least for the moment) the benefit of the doubt?