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gkarris
Dec 29, 2007, 03:49 PM
News.com in the US had this article. I'm trying to post it now, but after all the fuss about iTunes rentals, it has disappeared (coincidence?), but news.com.au still has it:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,22980938-5014108,00.html

The worst technology of 2007
Vista

Five years of work culminated in the consumer launch of this Windows operating system in February. It revealed the new, flashy Aero interface with floating windows, desktop gadgets and preview screens, as well as better security measures, parental controls and more detailed computer searches.

These excellent additions, however, were tempered by the time it had taken to develop them and the cost of the new software. Not only did the top Vista package cost $751, it also required major hardware upgrades for most computers.

Plus, installing Vista meant saying goodbye to some programs and peripherals such as printers and webcams as many did not work with the system. Some computer sellers extended the life of Windows XP in response.

Apple TV

A RARE chink in Apple's armour of well-designed, easy-to-use products is this gadget. Designed to be the link between your iPod and your television, the Apple TV set-top box is a cute gadget that falls down on several fronts.

The box itself features a hard drive (40GB or 160GB), wireless internet connectivity to sync content from an iPod and surf the net, and TV connections including an HDMI port.

The most obvious flaw in its creation is the lack of TV shows and movies available for your iPod in Australia. In the US, Apple sells TV shows through its online iTunes store, but this feature is yet to launch in Australia. This leaves only songs and music videos for it to work with, making its $579 price tag seem extravagant.

Apple TV will also help you surf the internet on your TV, letting you watch YouTube videos on a big screen, but so can the PlayStation 3. Other set-top boxes with hard drives also let you record TV shows.



EDIT: Found it - from "Popular Mechanics" article:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4236755.html?page=9



synth3tik
Dec 29, 2007, 03:53 PM
The Apple TV was a let down, mainly because Apple did not update it at all. Mine sits in a box, I don't want to deal with it. I am much happier running a Mac Mini in the entertainment system.

gkarris
Dec 29, 2007, 03:54 PM
The Apple TV was a let down, mainly because Apple did not update it at all. Mine sits in a box, I don't want to deal with it. I am much happier running a Mac Mini in the entertainment system.

I love mine. After Jan. 15, opinions will change...

markfc
Dec 29, 2007, 04:04 PM
I love mine. After Jan. 15, opinions will change...

ditto, mine is fantastic!

Airforce
Dec 29, 2007, 04:07 PM
I never thought it was anything special. The xbox 360 does everything and then some for me than an Apple TV could/can do. Hell, why not be able to play a game or two and pay less than the Apple TV costs :p

gkarris
Dec 29, 2007, 04:12 PM
I never thought it was anything special. The xbox 360 does everything and then some for me than an Apple TV could/can do. Hell, why not be able to play a game or two and pay less than the Apple TV costs :p

You know, I tried and tried to get my music and video (at least the non-Apple protected ones) to play on my XBox 360, but couldn't after a few nights of trying.

I got an :apple:TV and got it running in 5 minutes.

XBox 360 I'm having too much fun with playing games and HD DVD's anyways... :p

ipoddin
Dec 29, 2007, 04:18 PM
You know, I tried and tried to get my music and video (at least the non-Apple protected ones) to play on my XBox 360, but couldn't after a few nights of trying.

I got an :apple:TV and got it running in 5 minutes.

XBox 360 I'm having too much fun with playing games and HD DVD's anyways... :p

It's simple. Just get Connect 360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360). $20 and you can play any non-Apple protected video, music file, or any of your photos right on your 360. Works flawlessly and takes all of 5 minutes to setup. If you're not concerned about playing content bought from iTunes, it's a great, and cheap solution.

gkarris
Dec 29, 2007, 04:20 PM
It's simple. Just get Connect 360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360). $20 and you can play any non-Apple protected video, music file, or any of your photos right on your 360. Works flawlessly and takes all of 5 minutes to setup. If you're not concerned about playing content bought from iTunes, it's a great, and cheap solution.

Thanks for the heads up, my iTunes library is running on my PC server, though...

kuebby
Dec 29, 2007, 04:23 PM
For browsing the internet and watching video on my TV I'm happy with my PS3. It's easy to watch videos, of any kind and it's easy to upgrade the HD. The internet browser is also easy to use with dual analog sticks. Plus if I want more options I can easily install Linux. All without voiding the warranty.

But I will admit, it's probably easier to do with ATV. And there's no wireless syncing with the PS3 (20GB version).

Danksi
Dec 29, 2007, 04:37 PM
It will be interesting to see whether the :apple:TV 'update', that was mentioned briefly during a press-conference a few weeks back, actually materializes.

I'd love to see better photo browsing features, just like the iPod Classic can do as well as 'wake-on-lan' feature, for the machine that's sync'd. Apart from that it suits it's, iPod for TV, purpose quite well.

iTunes Rentals would be an interesting feature, but the pricing will need to be at least 1/2 that of the traditional DVD rentals to make it fly - since I'm paying for bandwidth and storage, for something that'll most likely be a poorer quality product.

The RRP of the :apple:TV is too much $ IMO, so I bought a 40Gb unit from the Apple refurb store and it turned out to be what appeared to be a brand new unit anyway, in a shrink-wrapped retail box, with everything wrapped inside the box as new. :)

gkarris
Dec 29, 2007, 04:45 PM
The RRP of the :apple:TV is too much $ IMO, so I bought a 40Gb unit from the Apple refurb store and it turned out to be what appeared to be a brand new unit anyway, in a shrink-wrapped retail box, with everything wrapped inside the box as new. :)

Lucky... Apple probably ran out and didn't take it down from the store in time, so sent out new ones instead....

elppa
Dec 29, 2007, 05:29 PM
It works, there have been no major manufacturing flaws and it does everything advertised.

I could find *many* devices which don't fulfil any of those criteria.

nick.hobbie
Dec 29, 2007, 09:55 PM
I'm sorry, but the people who b***h about the ATV are the ones who do not have one. I love being able to fill it up with movies and take it to a friends house and plug it in, I like watching my video podcasts on the couch, I enjoy having a party, playing music, and my pictures are being shown on the tv, I like having the server in the other room and being able to pick any one of my movies/TV Show/Songs. I like the fact that anyone can bring over their laptop and play something on my TV. YES there are some limitations, nothing that has not been hacked yet. The BIG limitation I see in the lack of HD available movies. I am all for apple selling add-ons in the future, but straight out the box it is fantastic. It doesn't need to play games, it doesn't need to surf the internet, I just want it to sit in my living room, play some media, and not drown out the sound by fans. Go buy one, it will change your life.

jsw
Dec 29, 2007, 10:10 PM
I have a mini and an ATV hooked up to my HDTV.

I prefer the mini, but... as a parent? The ATV is phenomenal.

It's easy enough for my 2.5 year old to use (and obviously the 7 year old can use it), and I can easily limit what they can watch.

I know, I'll go to hell for letting anyone under the age of 21 watch TV instead of teaching them ancient Greek or whatever, but... I love my ATV. As a device for adults it can mostly be replaced by an iPod (although it has some nice characteristics) but as a simple-to-access media device? It's awesome.

Jovian9
Dec 29, 2007, 10:28 PM
I love my :apple:TV. It's great to have so much at my fingertips with the apple remote (music, movies, podcasts, photos, etc.). It does exactly what I need it to. I love being able to flip through hundreds of movies to find a movie to watch instead of through tons of cases.

thepandamancan
Dec 29, 2007, 10:52 PM
I run a state of the art movie theatre on a college campus that's capable of HD projection. In the coming months we plan on using Apple TV and Front Row to run the theatre's SD programming. So much for Apple TV being a piece of crap machine that doesn't do anything.

stupidregister
Dec 30, 2007, 01:59 AM
I'm sorry, but the people who b***h about the ATV are the ones who do not have one.

Makes sense; if they don't like it, why would they buy it?

holtchristian
Dec 30, 2007, 03:43 AM
I'm sorry, but the people who b***h about the ATV are the ones who do not have one. I love being able to fill it up with movies and take it to a friends house and plug it in, I like watching my video podcasts on the couch, I enjoy having a party, playing music, and my pictures are being shown on the tv, I like having the server in the other room and being able to pick any one of my movies/TV Show/Songs. I like the fact that anyone can bring over their laptop and play something on my TV. YES there are some limitations, nothing that has not been hacked yet. The BIG limitation I see in the lack of HD available movies. I am all for apple selling add-ons in the future, but straight out the box it is fantastic. It doesn't need to play games, it doesn't need to surf the internet, I just want it to sit in my living room, play some media, and not drown out the sound by fans. Go buy one, it will change your life.


i wanted to state my opinion but i dont really have to anymore....but i will anyway very well said. I LOVE MY ATV- it seriously progressed my love for movies and i love when my niece/nephews come over and i have every pixar/shrek/whatever kids movie at my fingertips. and my friends LOVE it also cause when were bored and wanna watch a favorite.. its never been easier. as for HD content. i find my ways to get them.. ;) . sure some things could be better but my car could have wings and fly but its perfect how it already is. any atv doubters in my mind are using thhis masterpiece wrong. i used mine today 3 times alone. and that isnt uncommon. standard cable isnt being replaced- but i do love having my options now. in summary- god bless :apple:tv

Pixel19
Jan 2, 2008, 08:59 AM
Are you guys actually happy with the picture quality of the downloaded content? I was considering the device until I saw the display on a top of the line plasma TV in the Apple store and thought to myself, "it's gonna look even worse on MY TV!"
So I'm holding out.

Much Ado
Jan 2, 2008, 09:04 AM
It can't be called the "worst technology" as what the :apple:TV does, it does simply and easily.

The problem is that people didn't buy it, and hence it was never updated. Without movie studios on Apple's side, it was never going to work.

kagharaht
Jan 2, 2008, 09:46 AM
Are you guys actually happy with the picture quality of the downloaded content? I was considering the device until I saw the display on a top of the line plasma TV in the Apple store and thought to myself, "it's gonna look even worse on MY TV!"
So I'm holding out.

I don't think picture quality is an issue, if you rip DVDs that you own. I've seen ATV ripped DVDs from Handbrake. The picture quality on a 42" HDTV streamed from a Mac is virtually indistinguishable from a DVD. Handbrake and AppleTV. Thats the ticket.

milo
Jan 2, 2008, 10:06 AM
Worst tech? No freaking way.

Apple definitely missed the mark, but it seems to do what it promises well. It's desperately in need of an update, but even without it I don't think it's really any worse than any of the competing boxes that do similar things.

Pixel19
Jan 2, 2008, 10:25 AM
I don't think picture quality is an issue, if you rip DVDs that you own. I've seen ATV ripped DVDs from Handbrake. The picture quality on a 42" HDTV streamed from a Mac is virtually indistinguishable from a DVD. Handbrake and AppleTV. Thats the ticket.
Well sure if you rip DVD's yourself, I'm talking about the iTunes video content, it's so compressed and lo-res that getting a good picture out of it is impossible.

Airforce
Jan 2, 2008, 10:34 AM
I run a state of the art movie theatre on a college campus that's capable of HD projection. In the coming months we plan on using Apple TV and Front Row to run the theatre's SD programming. So much for Apple TV being a piece of crap machine that doesn't do anything.

State of the art movie theatre and you're going to use an Apple TV? I call shenanigans :p

shiseiryu1
Jan 2, 2008, 11:05 AM
It's definitely not the worst tech product. It does what it's supposed to do and does it very well. Anytime people come to my house they are always "wow'ed" by it's power, simplicity, and elegance. The main problem is that Apple has locked it down from 3rd party development and then ignored it.

The AppleTV is in need of an update bad...it needs better photo browsing, the ability to browse pics and listen to music, Internet Radio, and online movie rental. I really hope the movie companies don't limit the viewing time to 24 hours. It really doesn't make it worth the time of the sync and download if you only have 24 hours. :(

Hopefully this month the AppleTV will get some much needed love and attention.

Consultant
Jan 2, 2008, 11:32 AM
Worst Technology of 2007, hands down:
Windows Vista, released on January 30, 2007 to the general public.

Gaz545
Jan 2, 2008, 01:08 PM
This article is not one sided because?

JeffTL
Jan 2, 2008, 03:20 PM
The RRP of the :apple:TV is too much $ IMO, so I bought a 40Gb unit from the Apple refurb store and it turned out to be what appeared to be a brand new unit anyway, in a shrink-wrapped retail box, with everything wrapped inside the box as new. :)

That's what refurbished Apple products are like -- more or less as good as new. They just give a discount in exchange for your assuming the perceived risk associated with purchasing merchandise another customer had rejected.

chatin
Jan 2, 2008, 10:11 PM
High concept - $229, for a refurbished unit, is as big a gift as anyone will ever get to go into the media biz!

Chundles
Jan 2, 2008, 10:32 PM
Two things you guys need to remember:

1. That is from an Australian perspective. We have pretty much zero iTunes video content. No movies, no TV shows, just music videos and Pixar short films. This really limits the :apple:tv's functionality big time, video podcasts etc are OK but really they need to get proper video content in all the iTunes Stores quick smart because the rest of the world is really falling behind.

2. Downloadable HD content is going to be massively expensive in Australia because of the way that the telcos have the infrastructure in a stranglehold. A 5GB HD movie would often be double what your average Joe Bloggs (remember, none of us are Joe Bloggs, Joe Bloggs thinks the blue e is the internet and does nothing but email and word processing) has as a monthly download limit.

The :apple:tv may be a great product in the markets where Apple have invested in video content but here it's nigh on useless.

Danksi
Jan 2, 2008, 10:43 PM
That's what refurbished Apple products are like -- more or less as good as new. They just give a discount in exchange for your assuming the perceived risk associated with purchasing merchandise another customer had rejected.

I've had a couple of refurb's, a 1st Gen iPod Nano and an Airport Express, both arrived in brown cardboard packaging, with almost zip-lock plastic wrap. I was expecting the same for our :apple:TV, but this was brand new packaging.

Two things you guys need to remember:

1. That is from an Australian perspective. We have pretty much zero iTunes video content.

2. Downloadable HD content is going to be massively expensive in Australia because of the way that the telcos have the infrastructure in a stranglehold.

This is a very similar case in Canada, although we've just recently received TV-Shows (big-deal), the monthly allowances are generally quite low... higher allowances are available for a higher monthly fee. There'll be a lot of hidden costs with on-demand HD downloads. Even 500Mb 'HD' video-podcasts soon eat away at your monthly allowance and hard-drive space.

The :apple:tv may be a great product in the markets where Apple have invested in video content but here it's nigh on useless.

I've never bought anything from iTunes (except for Sonic for my iPod). We use it for Photos, Home Movies (my wife didn't realise we had so much stuck on the desktop), Movie's we've ripped and a surprising amount of YouTube. It could have more, but for now, it's far from the 'worst' tech of 2007.

wPod
Jan 3, 2008, 11:39 AM
I dont think i would call it the worst technology, I think something along the lines of 'biggest flop' would be better. worst technology implies the technology behind it is bad, like if you plug it into your TV it will cause your TV to explode! biggest flop sounds better. it was a really hyped product, the idea of it sounds really good, but there is little to no HD content for it, it doesnt hook to everyones TV (yes about 70% of Americans do NOT have HD TVs!) so just a poor execution of a good idea. but I think the technology is great. people need to think about the format wars, HD-DVD vs Blue-Ray. I think both of those will go the way of the CD, they will disappear and be replaced by digital media. and the :apple:TV is the way to deliver that media. unfortunately not everything is in place for this. . . yet. . . hopefully apple will keep up with the :apple:TV until the content is there for the :apple:TV to compete as a reliable 'format; of HD content.

Bubbasteve
Jan 3, 2008, 11:45 AM
I knew exactly what I was buying into when they announced it so I'm not disappointed at all with the ATV

True, I wish they updated the software a little more but that could come on the 15th.

BornAgainMac
Jan 3, 2008, 04:42 PM
Makes sense; if they don't like it, why would they buy it?

Your funny. Probably "try it" would be a better choice of words. People that don't like it have not tried it is what they were trying to say.

w00master
Jan 7, 2008, 12:54 AM
Your funny. Probably "try it" would be a better choice of words. People that don't like it have not tried it is what they were trying to say.

Funny thing is I thought of getting an AppleTV, but when I realized my XBox 360 does everything an AppleTV does and more, I quickly lost any interest in the AppleTV. The *only* thing that could get me to purchase an AppleTV is if Steve Jobs announces the "new" AppleTV with PVR capabilities. However, I HIGHLY doubt that's gonna happen.

w00master

yoyo5280
Jan 7, 2008, 02:17 AM
I love my Apple TV. I don't need to surf the web or record TV cause the whole reason I bought :apple:TV was so I could buy my TV shows from iTunes. But the best thing about the :apple: TV is that it is so easy. Much easier then the media player on the PS3. It is really plug in and your done :D

zedsdead
Jan 7, 2008, 05:50 AM
Last night Gates jabbed Jobs for calling the Apple TV a "Hobby" when he was talking about the future of the 360 as a media device...hopefully Apple has something up their sleeve...I love my Apple TV, but the lack of HD is getting rather annoying considering the device has been announced for over a year now...not to mention all the other things the Apple TV could do if Apple would just give it some attention.

milo
Jan 7, 2008, 10:55 AM
I dont think i would call it the worst technology, I think something along the lines of 'biggest flop' would be better.

Would "flop" even be appropriate? Is anyone else selling more of a similar box?

I also dispute that it was a really hyped product...apple downplayed it from the beginning and hardly promoted it at all. Gates can say what he wants (did he announce anything beyond more content?), but so far MS has sold far less video content than Apple. Not to mention that the whole situation will change when apple announces the rumored movie rentals and more studios, likely along with updates for aTV and itunes.

colinmack
Jan 7, 2008, 11:08 AM
Gates can say what he wants (did he announce anything beyond more content?)

Yes, not only did they recap existing PVR integration with Media Center and a built-in DVD drive, but also expansion to incorporate live TV (full set-top box capabilities), as well as a number of TV manufacturers that were going to integrate 'extender' capabilities right into the TVs themselves - sort of like an Apple TV being built right into next-gen Samsung/Toshiba TVs.

Basically - a variety of cool stuff that people have been asking for with Apple TV...IMO Apple is close to missing a critical window here to elevate things out of hobby status, but we'll see what happens in a week.

I still have hope ;)

milo
Jan 7, 2008, 01:37 PM
Yes, not only did they recap existing PVR integration with Media Center and a built-in DVD drive, but also expansion to incorporate live TV (full set-top box capabilities), as well as a number of TV manufacturers that were going to integrate 'extender' capabilities right into the TVs themselves - sort of like an Apple TV being built right into next-gen Samsung/Toshiba TVs.

XBOX doesn't do PVR and pausing live TV, or does it? (Will it?) And if not, then aren't the xbox streaming movies and the PVR (on a computer) two separate products? As poorly as the aTV has done, both from a critical and sales standpoint, it looks like Media Center has done even worse so far.

Is anyone selling a freestanding (for sale, not something with a monthly fee like a TIVO) box that does PVR and streamed movies?

The extender built into a TV is a cool idea...the big question with that is if it is locked to a proprietary format like MCE, or if it would be able to talk to iTunes as well?

w00master
Jan 7, 2008, 01:57 PM
XBOX doesn't do PVR and pausing live TV, or does it? (Will it?) And if not, then aren't the xbox streaming movies and the PVR (on a computer) two separate products? As poorly as the aTV has done, both from a critical and sales standpoint, it looks like Media Center has done even worse so far.

Is anyone selling a freestanding (for sale, not something with a monthly fee like a TIVO) box that does PVR and streamed movies?

The extender built into a TV is a cool idea...the big question with that is if it is locked to a proprietary format like MCE, or if it would be able to talk to iTunes as well?

The XBox 360 itself is not a PVR. It is essentially (besides being a game machine) a stream machine much like AppleTV. It does not recognize the iTunes library, but you can direct any folder on your network in order to stream media: photos, music, and videos. Since 99% of my music is not bought through the iTunes store, this is more than enough for me. In terms of Video streaming, imho it does a far better job than AppleTV does since it recognizes nearly every format including H.264. The only thing that it doesn't recognize are iTunes bought videos/tv-shows for me (since I don't buy iTunes videos) and Real Media (blah), isn't a big deal at all.

However, if you use a Mac to stream to your xbox360, there's a product called "Connect 360" and (I believe) it allows you to stream your iTunes library, iPhoto Library, and your Movies folder. I believe this includes iTunes playlists, etc. Of course, it still cannot play the iTunes bought media, but it's still a very good product (from what I've heard).

PVR functionality comes from Windows Media Center. The integration is very well done. It allows you to use your Xbox 360 as an extender. You could view, record, fast forward, rewind, etc. all through the extender capabilities of the xbox 360. Personally, I'm with you on the extender part. Media Center's penetration is very low, but people who have it love it. I'm personally a fan of Tivo, so I've never really cared either way.

w00master

milo
Jan 7, 2008, 02:29 PM
If the xbox lets you watch tv wirelessly from your computer and do things like pause live TV, that is pretty cool. But it still requires having the box plus a computer, just like aTV does. Probably wouldn't satisfy those who have been asking for something that does dvr in the box.

psychofreak
Jan 7, 2008, 02:31 PM
If the xbox lets you watch tv wirelessly from your computer and do things like pause live TV, that is pretty cool. But it still requires having the box plus a computer, just like aTV does. Probably wouldn't satisfy those who have been asking for something that does dvr in the box.

The Xbox isn't compatible enough and the UI is awful for controlling music.

w00master
Jan 7, 2008, 02:37 PM
The Xbox isn't compatible enough and the UI is awful for controlling music.

I personally don't find the interface that different than AppleTV's. What do you mean by "isn't compatible enough?" My library is unprotected mp3 and aac. What sort of "incompatibility" are you talking about? Or are you saying these things just b/c it's a MS product?

w00master

MikieMikie
Jan 8, 2008, 07:08 AM
Two things you guys need to remember:

1. That is from an Australian perspective. We have pretty much zero iTunes video content. No movies, no TV shows, just music videos and Pixar short films. This really limits the :apple:tv's functionality big time, video podcasts etc are OK but really they need to get proper video content in all the iTunes Stores quick smart because the rest of the world is really falling behind.

2. Downloadable HD content is going to be massively expensive in Australia because of the way that the telcos have the infrastructure in a stranglehold. A 5GB HD movie would often be double what your average Joe Bloggs (remember, none of us are Joe Bloggs, Joe Bloggs thinks the blue e is the internet and does nothing but email and word processing) has as a monthly download limit.

The :apple:tv may be a great product in the markets where Apple have invested in video content but here it's nigh on useless.

So you don't have DVDs and Handbrake down under?

What you point out as local problems extend to the US, too. All of my content has been ripped from DVD. I look to ITMS as a good source of free podcasts -- nothing more. I think you;ll find few people actually download content from ITMS for viewing on the HD TVs.

jashic
Jan 8, 2008, 08:37 AM
it doesnt matter if you love ATV or not. Just because you and the 19 other people who bought ATV last year think it is the end all be all of all things holy, doesnt make it not a flop.

Apparently, apple agrees its a flop too. Considering they haven't done a single update since it's inception.

Btw..betamax was better than VHS. And Laserdisc was better than DVD's.

Mindflux
Jan 8, 2008, 08:45 AM
Apparently, apple agrees its a flop too. Considering they haven't done a single update since it's inception.




You're right! A software update doesn't count.. right?

:rolleyes:

NightStorm
Jan 8, 2008, 09:35 AM
I'm pretty sure we'll see an update to bring the OS up to the 10.5 codebase, if nothing else. I'm sure they would include atleast some new features with that. :D

mrfrosty
Jan 8, 2008, 10:47 AM
I love my AppleTV. I actually think its one of the best pieces of tech from 2007. 2TB of films & series on the back end helps too though :-)

The best thing about it is that it's beautiful and simple to use. I don't want to be messing around with 360's & PS3's or running twonkyvision / mediatomb on my mac.........It's all about beautiful simplicity and elegance......

mrfrosty
Jan 8, 2008, 10:51 AM
it doesnt matter if you love ATV or not. Just because you and the 19 other people who bought ATV last year think it is the end all be all of all things holy, doesnt make it not a flop.

Apparently, apple agrees its a flop too. Considering they haven't done a single update since it's inception.

Btw..betamax was better than VHS. And Laserdisc was better than DVD's.

Obviously they did do an update (to v.1.1) .....betamax was techincally superior to VHS but it was never better........It's all about the content.....and betamax / laserdisc never had it....with AppleTV you make your own....it's because people are lazy that it has perhaps been a sales flop.....for none lazy people it's a frickin marvel....

jashic
Jan 8, 2008, 06:04 PM
Obviously they did do an update (to v.1.1) .....betamax was techincally superior to VHS but it was never better........It's all about the content.....and betamax / laserdisc never had it....with AppleTV you make your own....it's because people are lazy that it has perhaps been a sales flop.....for none lazy people it's a frickin marvel....

I never said for those who like it that it isn't a marvel. The point of this thread is that it is considered a flop. Which in fact, it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the Zune sold more units. As for people who are lazy who think its a flop...well, if the device is only made for people with lots of time on their hands, well then it's a flop simply in that regard.

Oh and the 1.1 update? let's see....what did it provide...

Youtube - Just like the Wii, XBox, PS3 and Winshit boxes already provided way before ATV
Parental Controls - Just like the Wii, XBox, PS3 and Winshit boxes already provided way before ATV
Screen saver - JOY!!!
photo syncing priority - Oh right, now the photos sync as advertised in 1.0. Except, 6 months after introduction.
Browsing other iTunes Stores - JOY!!!! A new way to send Apple more money!!

funky28
Jan 8, 2008, 06:07 PM
Two things you guys need to remember:

1. That is from an Australian perspective. We have pretty much zero iTunes video content. No movies, no TV shows, just music videos and Pixar short films. This really limits the :apple:tv's functionality big time, video podcasts etc are OK but really they need to get proper video content in all the iTunes Stores quick smart because the rest of the world is really falling behind.

2. Downloadable HD content is going to be massively expensive in Australia because of the way that the telcos have the infrastructure in a stranglehold. A 5GB HD movie would often be double what your average Joe Bloggs (remember, none of us are Joe Bloggs, Joe Bloggs thinks the blue e is the internet and does nothing but email and word processing) has as a monthly download limit.

The :apple:tv may be a great product in the markets where Apple have invested in video content but here it's nigh on useless.

I love my ATV. Sure there is no video content on iTMS here in Australia yet, but even if there were I'm not so sure that I'd be buying content anyway unless the quality and price was great.

ATV+iTunes+Handbrake+1TB external HD has been a winning combination for me. The quality of video when encoded with the ATV (h.264) setting and at 2500 kbps looks great most of the time. In fact, most of the time I can't tell the difference between an encode and the DVD.

I'd concede that it takes a lot of time to encode the content. For example, it usually takes a few hours to encode a 2 hour video using the settings above on a dual G5 PowerMac. So unless people are willing to spend time encoding, then the ATV would be pretty much useless or at least overpriced (here in Australia).

I don't know much about the XBox, PS3, etc.. but the ATV interface (and remote) are simple and elegant. I wonder what new/extra functionality a new update could bring? To be honest I don't really need it to do any more than what it already does.

jashic
Jan 8, 2008, 06:23 PM
I don't know much about the XBox, PS3, etc.. but the ATV interface (and remote) are simple and elegant. I wonder what extra functionality an update could bring.

for starters, they would need to make it equal or better than the competition. And not in just the simple remote.

I bought a TiVo DVR unit 3 years ago. It gave me 80+ hours of DVR capability. Pause live tv, record shows, schedule recordings, subscribe to entire seasons of shows (auto-eliminates reruns), gives me recommendations on what I would like based on shows I've recorded, put favorite actors in my wishlist (and records shows or movies that have them in it), check weather, check yahoo mail, stream music from any PC/MAC in my house wirelessly, view photo galleries from any PC/MAC in my house wirelessly, listen to podcasts, etc. AND it lets me download the movies/shows to my laptop so I can watch them on the road.

all for...an amazing $299 USD

What do I get with ATV which debuted a year ago? (remember, I had my unit 3 years ago). Simply...the ability to watch and listen to things from my iTunes and iPhoto. Oh yeah...youtube.

Oh yeah, and the Tivo remote is the most user friendly remote ever created. My grandmother can use it and does.

the business model for ATV is simple. Provide a $15 40GB hard drive. Put a stripped down MacOS in it and put a shiny shell around it and charge $299 for it. Then, give it bare bones functionality such that the easiest way to use it is to give Apple more money by buying movies and music from itunes.

funky28
Jan 9, 2008, 03:07 AM
Yes the Tivo's a great system. When you compare the ATV with Tivo based on price (at first) it does seem that the ATV is way overpriced.

However, the ATV is not a DVR/PVR like the Tivo.

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong, but does the Tivo wirelessly stream video content from iTunes? Can you rip videos from DVDs onto the Tivo? Can you hook up extra hard drives when you run out of space? From what I've read, when you run out of space you have to archive to VCR tape or delete.

Furthermore, if you want to look at price, then on top of the cost of a Tivo PVR are the monthly subscription or the extra lifetime service fee.

So to me, the Tivo and the ATV are two different products. The Tivo is basically a device that records television shows for you, but an ATV is a device that plays video and music content from your iTunes library (on your computer) wirelessly.

As for the small hard drive, if one has a fast wireless network, e.g. Wi-Fi 802.11n, then hard drive size becomes irrelevant. In fact, the only reasons I can think of for a hard drive in the ATV is a place for the "cut-down OSX" and also space for some content in the event that some people want to take their ATV with them to a friend's house or wherever..

Seems to me that many are disappointed with the ATV because it is not what they expected or wanted it to be, that being a DVR/PVR. Look, I don't really mean to knock the Tivo or similar systems like Ice TV here in Australia. I think a Tivo or similar device would complement my ATV and the rest of my home entertainment system. I just think that a lot of people don't "get" the ATV or knock it because they wish it had PVR functionality.

jashic
Jan 9, 2008, 07:07 AM
Yes the Tivo's a great system. When you compare the ATV with Tivo based on price (at first) it does seem that the ATV is way overpriced.

However, the ATV is not a DVR/PVR like the Tivo.

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong, but does the Tivo wirelessly stream video content from iTunes? Can you rip videos from DVDs onto the Tivo? Can you hook up extra hard drives when you run out of space? From what I've read, when you run out of space you have to archive to VCR tape or delete.

Furthermore, if you want to look at price, then on top of the cost of a Tivo PVR are the monthly subscription or the extra lifetime service fee.

So to me, the Tivo and the ATV are two different products. The Tivo is basically a device that records television shows for you, but an ATV is a device that plays video and music content from your iTunes library (on your computer) wirelessly.

As for the small hard drive, if one has a fast wireless network, e.g. Wi-Fi 802.11n, then hard drive size becomes irrelevant. In fact, the only reasons I can think of for a hard drive in the ATV is a place for the "cut-down OSX" and also space for some content in the event that some people want to take their ATV with them to a friend's house or wherever..

Seems to me that many are disappointed with the ATV because it is not what they expected or wanted it to be, that being a DVR/PVR. Look, I don't really mean to knock the Tivo or similar systems like Ice TV here in Australia. I think a Tivo or similar device would complement my ATV and the rest of my home entertainment system. I just think that a lot of people don't "get" the ATV or knock it because they wish it had PVR functionality.

in the end, I think you are right. For the price, I think the ATV should have had PVR functionality.

To answer your questions about the Tivo -
- It does not stream video from itunes. Only photos and music from any windows/mac system
- there are ways to load videos onto the Tivo but it takes a hack to do it. It's not for the faint of heart.
- There is space for a second hard drive. But if that's used up, you either have to archive to DVD, PC, MAC, etc...or delete the program

The Tivo isn't all that different underneath from an ATV. It's a hard drive with Linux as the OS on a logic board with USB, Ethernet and IR inputs. There are a lot of hacks for it just like there are for the ATV.

savar
Jan 9, 2008, 09:48 AM
You know, I tried and tried to get my music and video (at least the non-Apple protected ones) to play on my XBox 360, but couldn't after a few nights of trying.

I got an :apple:TV and got it running in 5 minutes.

XBox 360 I'm having too much fun with playing games and HD DVD's anyways... :p

Did you install Connect360?

After that, it's silly how easy it is.

milo
Jan 9, 2008, 12:40 PM
I bought a TiVo DVR unit 3 years ago. It gave me 80+ hours of DVR capability. Pause live tv, record shows, schedule recordings, subscribe to entire seasons of shows (auto-eliminates reruns), gives me recommendations on what I would like based on shows I've recorded, put favorite actors in my wishlist (and records shows or movies that have them in it), check weather, check yahoo mail, stream music from any PC/MAC in my house wirelessly, view photo galleries from any PC/MAC in my house wirelessly, listen to podcasts, etc. AND it lets me download the movies/shows to my laptop so I can watch them on the road.

all for...an amazing $299 USD

But doesn't TIVO require a monthly subscription of some sort? If so, count me out. Is anyone selling a full PVR for $299 yet?

As for the aTV, at the very least it needs 5.1 surround, streaming internet radio, and the ability to buy content from the sofa. 1080p would be nice as well, but I don't know if the hardware can handle it...the other things could definitely come from software updates.

blybug
Jan 9, 2008, 02:33 PM
I've got the :apple:TV software running on a mac mini with a 500GB external FW drive hooked up to my standard def TV. What my family and I now have at our fingertips includes:


Almost 200 (Handbraked) movies
15 years worth of more than 300 home video segments
Every episode of Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Office, many classic episodes of kids shows like Sesame Street and Electric Company (also Handbraked)
15,000 songs nicely organized into playlists
More than 8000 family photos easily grouped by year, album, etc


This is exactly what the :apple:TV is supposed to do, and it is perfect. Granted, I can sync a lot more stuff since I have the large hard drive, but a real :apple:TV could stream this content just as well as my :apple:TVmini has it sync'ed. I just see it as an extra "backup" by syncing it all.

MikieMikie
Jan 9, 2008, 04:26 PM
I've got the :apple:TV software running on a mac mini with a 500GB external FW drive hooked up to my standard def TV.

Is this a readily available hack? Hadn't heard of anyone using the Apple TV software -- just Front Row.

blybug
Jan 9, 2008, 04:32 PM
Is this a readily available hack? Hadn't heard of anyone using the Apple TV software -- just Front Row.

http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/AppleTV_FrontRow_on_Intel_Mac
http://www.hackint0sh.org/forum/showthread.php?t=463

Works flawlessly, adding plugin frappliances like nito, ATVFiles, and Exit is as easy and drag-and-drop into the Front Row app package. iTunes on my mothership Mac sees a standard :apple:TV. Only downside is the :apple:TV software update does not work, so I am stuck at 1.0 with no YouTube, parental controls, and whatever else 1.1 brought. Also not sure if this would still work in Leopard, I've left the mini on Tiger, since it ain't broke I'm not going to fix it. :p

APPLENEWBIE
Jan 10, 2008, 05:26 PM
The xbox 360 does everything and then some for me than an Apple TV could/can do.

Yes, and with the X-box you also get that nice WHOOOOSHH sound to add to whatever you are listening to.

AppleTV certainly ain't perfect, but for those of us who have actually dedicated some time with it, it is pretty good...

FF_productions
Jan 10, 2008, 05:38 PM
I've got the :apple:TV software running on a mac mini with a 500GB external FW drive hooked up to my standard def TV. What my family and I now have at our fingertips includes:


Almost 200 (Handbraked) movies
15 years worth of more than 300 home video segments
Every episode of Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Office, many classic episodes of kids shows like Sesame Street and Electric Company (also Handbraked)
15,000 songs nicely organized into playlists
More than 8000 family photos easily grouped by year, album, etc


This is exactly what the :apple:TV is supposed to do, and it is perfect. Granted, I can sync a lot more stuff since I have the large hard drive, but a real :apple:TV could stream this content just as well as my :apple:TVmini has it sync'ed. I just see it as an extra "backup" by syncing it all.


Sir you couldn't have said it any better.

That's exactly what I'm doing. What else do you want the Apple TV to do for you?

What my goal has been for the last few years (before Apple TV) is to somehow wirelessly get music/movies/etc onto to the TV by using some sort of device. This is the perfect bridge.

I have a Mac Pro with too much space to spare so I dump everything neatly in a folder and Apple TV streams off of it.

trip1ex
Jan 10, 2008, 09:43 PM
You can upload movies to your Tivo without a hack and start watching them a minute or two after the upload begins.

ATV just isn't quite there yet from a practical point of view. For those that have a massive video library and the patience to convert it to ATV format and don't mind the cost of storing all that content on hard drives then it's ready for prime time.

But for the rest of us it isn't. More content is going to help. So will movie rentals. Then you might be able to say it can truly replace your dvd player at least.

Still it's a lot of dough for something that isn't terribly more convenient than my DVD player and won't beat out Netflix in pricing probably either.

kevinbal
Jan 11, 2008, 07:35 AM
Sir you couldn't have said it any better.

That's exactly what I'm doing. What else do you want the Apple TV to do for you?

What my goal has been for the last few years (before Apple TV) is to somehow wirelessly get music/movies/etc onto to the TV by using some sort of device. This is the perfect bridge.

I have a Mac Pro with too much space to spare so I dump everything neatly in a folder and Apple TV streams off of it.

I'm going to echo these sentiments, as I've stated many times to many people before. I've owned (pre-ordered months in advance) the :apple:TV since day 1 because I saw its potential right from the start.

While it would be insane to say that the :apple:TV has changed my life, it has changed the way both my fiance and I watch movies, and tv shows as well. Because of the inherent problems with promoting the use of applications like handbrake and visual hub, Apple has had their hands completely tied in making the general public understand -exactly- what the :apple:TV is capable of.

In fact, most of our friends could not visualize what the experience is like by description alone. However once they've come into our living room and seen, as I've dubbed it, a "Star Trek like" set up where all of my movies (500ish), all of my TV series, music, photos, and that great time waster; youtube, are literally a click away, they are blown away.

"Wait? There's no discs in? How.... they are just computer files? Holy crap, I had no idea this was possible."

Since storage space is quickly becoming a moot point, encoding for the highest quality produces nearly identical images to the physical DVD media. Once the limited sound issues are resolved and we move into more HD content, it is going to become even more amazing.

The :apple:TV is hardly the worst tech piece of 2007. I would go as far as to say it is the most misunderstood tech piece of 2007.

Here's to good things next Tuesday for my beloved :apple:TV.

MikieMikie
Jan 11, 2008, 02:59 PM
The :apple:TV is hardly the worst tech piece of 2007. I would go as far as to say it is the most misunderstood tech piece of 2007.

Here's to good things next Tuesday for my beloved :apple:TV.

Amen, brother.

blybug
Jan 12, 2008, 07:32 AM
ATV just isn't quite there yet from a practical point of view. For those that have a massive video library and the patience to convert it to ATV format and don't mind the cost of storing all that content on hard drives then it's ready for prime time.
True, ripping DVDs does take time, but the process does not need to be babysat. I typically set Handbrake off on its task either before I go to work, or before I go to sleep.

Hard drive space is becoming an irrelevant part of the equation...huge capacities for dirt cheap. It's deja vu to 1997 when I bought a 2GB (Apple branded) external SCSI drive for $499...I was just starting to collect/convert MP3s and thought how it would take me forever to fill that thing up :mad:. The demand for music storage drove hard drive sizes up through the GBs and prices down through the early 2000s, video will continue to do the same in the TB range for the next several years.

But for the rest of us it isn't. More content is going to help. So will movie rentals. Then you might be able to say it can truly replace your dvd player at least.
To some degree you're right, my Mom does not want to fiddle around with Handbrake. The :apple:TV concept won't really take off until obtaining videos is as easy as obtaining music. But again...10 years ago, I was astounding people with my library of a few hundred MP3s that I laboriously converted from CDs, playing them in MacAmp and Soundjam ("You mean all that music is in your computer??!!"). Most people had never heard of such a thing and thought it was ultra-cool, but too complicated for them. Today my 80-year-old Grandma uses iTunes and has an iPod. Video will catch up with "the rest of us" before you know it, and likely Apple will come up with the gee-whiz-why-didn't-anyone-do-that-before paradigm.

Still it's a lot of dough for something that isn't terribly more convenient than my DVD player and won't beat out Netflix in pricing probably either.
:apple:TV is actually a terrific complement to a Netflix subscription :D

ctakim
Jan 12, 2008, 10:41 AM
Boy, the AppleTV gets no love from the masses. I am perfectly happy with mine. I was looking for a solution to get music and photos to my large screen TV and it does that by streaming very well. The biggest frustration that must be behind all the negativity is the unrealized potential of what this can do. But that does not bother me in the least.

That being said I will be very interested in what Steve has planned for this little "hobby" device come next week!:)

TelescopeEyes
Jan 12, 2008, 10:36 PM
:apple:TV was a disappointment. It could have been something amazing, and it still can be. Steve just needs to put a little more work into making it something more than just a "hobby".

trip1ex
Jan 13, 2008, 12:51 AM
I agree with the next poster.

trip1ex
Jan 13, 2008, 12:53 AM
True, ripping DVDs does take time, but the process does not need to be babysat. I typically set Handbrake off on its task either before I go to work, or before I go to sleep.

Hard drive space is becoming an irrelevant part of the equation...huge capacities for dirt cheap. It's deja vu to 1997 when I bought a 2GB (Apple branded) external SCSI drive for $499...I was just starting to collect/convert MP3s and thought how it would take me forever to fill that thing up :mad:. The demand for music storage drove hard drive sizes up through the GBs and prices down through the early 2000s, video will continue to do the same in the TB range for the next several years.


To some degree you're right, my Mom does not want to fiddle around with Handbrake. The :apple:TV concept won't really take off until obtaining videos is as easy as obtaining music. But again...10 years ago, I was astounding people with my library of a few hundred MP3s that I laboriously converted from CDs, playing them in MacAmp and Soundjam ("You mean all that music is in your computer??!!"). Most people had never heard of such a thing and thought it was ultra-cool, but too complicated for them. Today my 80-year-old Grandma uses iTunes and has an iPod. Video will catch up with "the rest of us" before you know it, and likely Apple will come up with the gee-whiz-why-didn't-anyone-do-that-before paradigm.


:apple:TV is actually a terrific complement to a Netflix subscription :D

Hey eventually all media will be digitally downloaded. But there's not much of a reason for Joe Schmoe to get an ATV today. It doesn't really do anything he can't do now.

It might be a different story in 2 or 3 years. It might be a different story if Apple gets a lot more content and pricing is right. Because again eventually all media is digitally downloaded.

Oh and there's big differences between the iPod and music listening and the ATV and movie watching. The iPod did things for music listening that cds couldn't do. ATV doesn't really do anything that Cable, DVR and DVD don't do and yet it can't replace any of those devices today either.