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wake6830
Jan 15, 2008, 11:26 AM
New Wireless Router/Hard Drive Combo

299 for 500gb
499 for 1tb



Small White Car
Jan 15, 2008, 11:58 AM
Hope the drives are EASILY user-replaceable. Would love to fill a drive, ship it off to my parent's house for safe-keeping, and then pop a new drive in it.

We'll soon find out!

netdog
Jan 15, 2008, 12:00 PM
Does this mean no AirDrive support (ie USB-attached drive + AEBS) for Time Machine?

Jack Flash
Jan 15, 2008, 12:25 PM
How about fixing the issues some people are having with the Airport Extreme Base Station first?

MacRumors
Jan 15, 2008, 12:32 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Today during the MacWorld keynote speech, Steve Jobs announced a new Airport Extreme Base Station - with "server grade" internal hard drive dubbed "Time Capsule." The new base station is available in two configurations:
500GB - $299
1TB - $499
Ships: February
MacHeist (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fkeynote.macheist.com&t=1200412826) is providing full sponsorship for our MacRumorsLive feed today. Buy their 11 application bundle (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fkeynote.macheist.com&t=1200412826) for $49 and support MacRumorsLive.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/15/apple-announces-time-capsule/)

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 12:33 PM
If I can use it as a NAS to store content my Mac, :apple:tv, and iPhone can access, I'll take one.

vendettabass
Jan 15, 2008, 12:33 PM
UK price figures!

ThunderLounge
Jan 15, 2008, 12:33 PM
Could be a handy little gadget.

A tick pricey, not too much though, but nifty anyway.

PlaceofDis
Jan 15, 2008, 12:34 PM
i think i might pick one of these up. they seem to be reasonably priced and i know i'll need a new wireless router soon anyways....

SthrnCmfrtr
Jan 15, 2008, 12:36 PM
That's not bad if you don't already have an AEBS(n), really. 500GB drives are at least $100 just about anywhere you look.

Kee123
Jan 15, 2008, 12:37 PM
Is this just specifically for backup? Or can we like store stuff on it?

mothergoose45
Jan 15, 2008, 12:37 PM
So 3 weeks ago I spent $159 on an Airport Extreme and $120 on Leopard so I could plug my $120 HD into for Time Machine when they finally updated it to support backups wirelessly. Now Im out all that. Unbelievable.

twoodcc
Jan 15, 2008, 12:38 PM
If I can use it as a NAS to store content my Mac, :apple:tv, and iPhone can access, I'll take one.

my thoughts as well. but i already have an airport extreme though?

ThunderLounge
Jan 15, 2008, 12:38 PM
That's not bad if you don't already have an AEBS(n), really. 500GB drives are at least $100 just about anywhere you look.

Like I said, not too bad. I guess I'm thinking it's nothing more than a wireless hard drive.

Maybe there's a little more to it.

synth3tik
Jan 15, 2008, 12:38 PM
Does this mean that Apple fixed the airport NAS issue that make me hate time machine?

pjarvi
Jan 15, 2008, 12:39 PM
Wouldn't Time Machine just take over the whole drive though? That's my one concern. I don't need a 500GB Time Machine, but if it can be divided up into multiple partitions then it would be useful.

ImNoSuperMan
Jan 15, 2008, 12:43 PM
I`d also love to get it if NAS is possible. I was bout to upgrade the router anyways. So it`d be a good option. But I seriously dont need a 500 GB for my 80 GB macBook :o

Small White Car
Jan 15, 2008, 12:46 PM
I was really hoping for user-replaceable hard drives so I could send a full drive somewhere else for safe-keeping and just add a new one myself.

Doesn't look like that's the way it's made, though. Oh well, still an awesome product! I gotta make sure my parent's and my grandmother get one...if they lose all their photos they'll be asking ME to restore them and right now I won't be able to help them!

PlaceofDis
Jan 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
don't forget that Time Machine isn't a clone of your drive, its a continuous backup. thus with a larger drive you'll be able to have things backed up longer and be able to revert to items further back.

ascender
Jan 15, 2008, 12:48 PM
If it can support multiple machines backup-up to it then some sort of partitioning must be going on, but I guess it depends whether this is hidden from the user or if its up to you to assign space and control permissions.

UK Prices:

500Gb - £199
1TB - £329

citi
Jan 15, 2008, 12:49 PM
yeah...as I read between the two products, I thought, wait, this is airport extreme with a hard drive. Why couldn't they just update the firmware in airport extreme? Sucks for people who already bought one.

It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.

superspud
Jan 15, 2008, 12:50 PM
Is this just specifically for backup? Or can we like store stuff on it?

exactly what i was about to ask...

is it just for time machine back up or can it just act as a wireless hard drive? i'd love to be able to acces whatever files i want from anywhere in my house wirelessly....

if this is not a feature, apple messed up bigtime.....

SthrnCmfrtr
Jan 15, 2008, 12:51 PM
It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.

I just realized precisely the same thing. Ugly, ugly realization.

xenotaku
Jan 15, 2008, 12:53 PM
what does NAS mean that everyone is referring to?

Also, does anyone know if this thing will be able to store my media (movies, music etc) and stream it to my MPB? If I could remove all of my movies and photographs and keep it on this, and then access them when I need, I'm buying one.

Most importantly though, will I be able to stream movies off of it? On to my MPB or an :apple:TV in the future?

Slip
Jan 15, 2008, 12:54 PM
This seems a must when the router/external hard drive packs up.
Would finally be at .11n speeds then aswell ;)

uk_blaster
Jan 15, 2008, 12:54 PM
I just realized precisely the same thing. Ugly, ugly realization.

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

John Lydon: Winterland ballroom-1978.

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 12:55 PM
Wouldn't Time Machine just take over the whole drive though? That's my one concern. I don't need a 500GB Time Machine, but if it can be divided up into multiple partitions then it would be useful.

I am assuming this is how it works since it can backup multiple Macs.

kellen
Jan 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
what does NAS mean that everyone is referring to?

Also, does anyone know if this thing will be able to store my media (movies, music etc) and stream it to my MPB? If I could remove all of my movies and photographs and keep it on this, and then access them when I need, I'm buying one.

Most importantly though, will I be able to stream movies off of it? On to my MPB or an :apple:TV in the future?

network attached storage, basically the hard drive that is attached to the router.

apple better release an update to the AEBS so that your attached drive can work as time capsule. Dont' see them doing it, but pretty crappy if they don't.

albert1028
Jan 15, 2008, 12:56 PM
what does NAS mean that everyone is referring to?

NAS = Network Attached Storage

Small White Car
Jan 15, 2008, 12:57 PM
I just realized precisely the same thing. Ugly, ugly realization.

Only ugly if they continue to prevent the airport + HD from doing the same thing. Once we get new software updates over the next few days, watch and see if this changes.

I don't know, but I doubt you know either.

monrobot
Jan 15, 2008, 12:57 PM
Apple website now mentions 'hard drive sharing' as a feature of AirportExtreme - is this new?
http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/features/harddrivesharing.html

What's the problem using it as the nominated Time Machine disk?

NewtypeCJ
Jan 15, 2008, 12:58 PM
So, question. I have an iMac with 750GB HDD. And I wanna get a MacBook Air. Can I use the Time Capsule as an external drive to use Time Machine with both the iMac (hooked up via USB) and the MacBook Air (wireless)?

xenotaku
Jan 15, 2008, 12:58 PM
network attached storage, basically the hard drive that is attached to the router.

apple better release an update to the AEBS so that your attached drive can work as time capsule. Dont' see them doing it, but pretty crappy if they don't.

So does NAS mean I would be able to store all of my media and then stream it to my MBP when needed without transferring from one device to another?

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 01:00 PM
Apple website now mentions 'hard drive sharing' as a feature of AirportExtreme - is this new?
http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/features/harddrivesharing.html

What's the problem using it as the nominated Time Machine disk?

Likely nothing - as long as you only have one Mac using it as a TMD. It might not be able to support more then one Mac.

Time Capsule seems to have software that allows it to maintain multiple, separate, Time Machine datastores so more then one Mac can use it, without overwriting each machine's datastore.

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 01:00 PM
So does NAS mean I would be able to store all of my media and then stream it to my MBP when needed without transferring from one device to another?

Correct. I do it now with a NAS using wired Ethernet, but wireless would be much more convenient.

redeye be
Jan 15, 2008, 01:02 PM
Does this mean no AirDrive support (ie USB-attached drive + AEBS) for Time Machine?
Nothing on the product page seems to indicate it does...
The first thing I thought of when I read the feed on this was: "will it support ZFS?" That would be nice with AirDrive -> one big networked HD...

Is this just specifically for backup? Or can we like store stuff on it?
You can like store stuff on it.

Slip
Jan 15, 2008, 01:02 PM
Apple website now mentions 'hard drive sharing' as a feature of AirportExtreme - is this new?
http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/features/harddrivesharing.html

What's the problem using it as the nominated Time Machine disk?

I think (correct me if Im wrong) that this has always been a feature, however, there is no way to use that attached drive as your TM backup.
Although there were hacks that brought this feature back which surfaced a couple of months back.

xenotaku
Jan 15, 2008, 01:02 PM
Correct. I do it now with a NAS using wired Ethernet, but wireless would be much more convenient.


sweet, im buying one in that case. Now they just need to create some sort of sling box device so I can access my Time Capsule wherever there is an internet connect :)

nubero
Jan 15, 2008, 01:03 PM
I agree with:

I was really hoping for user-replaceable hard drives ...

I do not agree with

Oh well, still an awesome product! ...

A wireless Hard Drive in a sealed box?!?

If it didn't have the Apple logo on it you'd all hate it....

Peace
Jan 15, 2008, 01:03 PM
you can also watch videos and listen to music from it.

IChing
Jan 15, 2008, 01:04 PM
network attached storage, basically the hard drive that is attached to the router.

apple better release an update to the AEBS so that your attached drive can work as time capsule. Dont' see them doing it, but pretty crappy if they don't.


I almost started to write the same thing...
We need a major update for sure, because I assumed when leopard came out with time machine they would do that, maybe when leopard is updated we will get something. I feel a little suckered by the time machine and airport extreme hype we all got.

xUKHCx
Jan 15, 2008, 01:05 PM
you can also watch videos and listen to music from it.

So basically a beefed up ATV or does it have a different interface?

Peace
Jan 15, 2008, 01:06 PM
You do it through the Apple TV2. It's a "source"

demenas
Jan 15, 2008, 01:06 PM
If it can support multiple machines backup-up to it then some sort of partitioning must be going on, but I guess it depends whether this is hidden from the user or if its up to you to assign space and control permissions.



It creates a separate folder (not hidden, look at it in Finder) with the name of the machine, I believe. So it can accommodate multiple machines.

Steve

Small White Car
Jan 15, 2008, 01:07 PM
A wireless Hard Drive in a sealed box?!?

If it didn't have the Apple logo on it you'd all hate it....

Well, look back at my comment about my grandmother. She has a Macbook she uses to surf the web, send e-mails, and store photos from her digital camera and videos I send her of her grand-daughter.

If her hard drive dies, what would you suggest she do? What other product could she use to back-up her data? What's as easy as this? I can't think of many.

samh004
Jan 15, 2008, 01:07 PM
I'm actually considering this as possibly the only thing from the keynote that I like. It seems like a pretty good offer for the 1TB drive and I'm going away to university soon, so I was about to get in the market for a portable backup drive, this might actually be a bit better.

natallica
Jan 15, 2008, 01:08 PM
I'm curious what the transfer speed on this will be?!? NAS is traditionally ass-slow...

-- N

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 01:10 PM
A wireless Hard Drive in a sealed box?!? If it didn't have the Apple logo on it you'd all hate it....

I am using a 500GB Maxtor Plus 4 as my local Time Machine store, and while it is wired, it's in a "sealed box".

Lots of people use external HDDs from companies like Seagate, WD, and Maxtor that are in "sealed boxes" as auxiliary storage.

Why is that such a bad thing in the Time Capsule? :confused:

If you really want to be able to swap HDDs, then buy an external wireless NAS that you need to supply your own HDD from someone else and go to town. :)

Maddler
Jan 15, 2008, 01:14 PM
Great, but can I still hookup an external drive to this for NAS, and then have that drive get backed up to the Time Capsule drive?

KyleC
Jan 15, 2008, 01:15 PM
OK, so can I backup 8 macs with this?

Anyone seen a limit? I want to use it in our office.

eme jota ce
Jan 15, 2008, 01:18 PM
So 3 weeks ago I spent $159 on an Airport Extreme and $120 on Leopard so I could plug my $120 HD into for Time Machine when they finally updated it to support backups wirelessly. Now Im out all that. Unbelievable.

Same here. Not happy about it.

It's true that I bought and 802.11n and pre-ordered when the Leopard feature set was still subject to change. When Leopard pulled the feature upon release, it was disappointing but seemed that the company would likely add the feature back into the OS once it was improved. After all, reports on this site said the early releases of Leopard had the feature and it worked.

Now, there's a whole new Hardware solution required? Very disappointing Apple.

ilogic
Jan 15, 2008, 01:19 PM
if you do the Okay sign with your hand, thats how my butt feels cause i went out to get the AEBS so I can have time machine wireless and they've withheld the feature so I buy a 'capsule'!?!?!!?

I'm so disappointed.

There are two possibilities, the one is that, the capsule is a dedicated backup solution, and if you attach an additional hard drive, you can share files through that partition. Or, the capsule is not dedicated and its just a NAS drive, which is highly possible as well.

I don't understand why :apple: is not adding the funtionality to wireless backup to the AEBS?!!? I doubt they will, cause they want capsule to sell. this is the biggest load of crap i've ever heard...

today, for the first time i'm disappointed by Apple... :mad::mad::mad::confused::mad:

nubero
Jan 15, 2008, 01:20 PM
...

Lots of people use external HDDs from companies like Seagate, WD, and Maxtor that are in "sealed boxes" as auxiliary storage.

Why is that such a bad thing in the Time Capsule? :confused:

...:)

because once it breaks you throw away the airport and the hard drive. it's far from earth shaking but it just seems like quite a waste. especially if you look a the way you can swap drives from the MacPro.

besides, what happens if you want to change the drive inside to get a bigger one say in a year?

Slip
Jan 15, 2008, 01:20 PM
So basically a beefed up ATV or does it have a different interface?

I don't think so, it's literally just a hard drive fitted into an AirPort Extreme base station so you just access it like a remote hard drive

It creates a separate folder (not hidden, look at it in Finder) with the name of the machine, I believe. So it can accommodate multiple machines.

Steve

Correct AFAIK

I'm actually considering this as possibly the only thing from the keynote that I like.

Same as actually...
1.1.3 will be nice once hacked, but $20 for the apps that you can get by jailbreaking, no thank you.

ATV is quite nice, though having these features through iTunes detracts a little.

And I think they missed a shot with using the standard 13" screen for the 'ultraportable' MBA (don't flame or start that discussion again, there's an entire thread about it ;))

uk_blaster
Jan 15, 2008, 01:24 PM
Same here. Not happy about it.

It's true that I bought and 802.11n and pre-ordered when the Leopard feature set was still subject to change. When Leopard pulled the feature upon release, it was disappointing but seemed that the company would likely add the feature back into the OS once it was improved. After all, reports on this site said the early releases of Leopard had the feature and it worked.

Now, there's a whole new Hardware solution required? Very disappointing Apple.

Well, that's odd. Because when I was in my local apple store back in late Sept. contemplating the purchase of my airport extreme, the sales person assured me the feature would be present in leopard. And I'm pretty damned sure Apple's site even confirmed that fact on the "about leopard" page.. Until it was pulled about a week before leopard dropped, that is.

The short of it is I didn't hit a rumor site for that bit of info. I got that from the mouth of a apple employee and apple's own site.

Just saying. If I have the bit about that info being on the "about leopard" incorrect. Please feel free to correct me.:(

Kelmon
Jan 15, 2008, 01:24 PM
So 3 weeks ago I spent $159 on an Airport Extreme and $120 on Leopard so I could plug my $120 HD into for Time Machine when they finally updated it to support backups wirelessly. Now Im out all that. Unbelievable.

A largely similar situation here except that I bought my drive and AEBS back when it was first released with the view to using it with Time Machine, as advertised at the time. Needless to say that I do feel that I wasted my money and that the AEBS was misrepresented.

:mad: Yeah, thanks a lot, Apple...

jaw04005
Jan 15, 2008, 01:27 PM
This is very discouraging. It appears Apple has not corrected the data corruption errors associated with AirDisk and Time Machine.

I guess the "solution" is to purchase Apple's new "Time Capsule."

CalfCanuck
Jan 15, 2008, 01:30 PM
On the Apple web site, the info on this device says that it also works with 10.4 and Windows machines as a NAS:

"Works with Mac and PC.
Time Capsule with Time Machine in Leopard is the ideal backup solution. But that doesn’t mean Tiger, Windows XP, and Windows Vista users can’t enjoy the benefits of Time Capsule, too. Because it mounts as a wireless hard drive, Tiger and Windows users simply access Time Capsule directly from the wireless network for exchanging and storing files quickly and easily."

pjrobertson
Jan 15, 2008, 01:33 PM
Once again, over ehre in the UK we're having to pay almost twice as much as the US.

UK Price: £199 ($393)

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 01:34 PM
Assuming the Airport Extreme still does not support Time Machine, can I buy TIme Capsule and use a USB attached drive as Time Machine Drive too?

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 01:35 PM
OK, so can I backup 8 macs with this? Anyone seen a limit? I want to use it in our office.

The more Macs you have, the less "time" it can keep, but I expect 8 macs is okay.


because once it breaks you throw away the airport and the hard drive. it's far from earth shaking but it just seems like quite a waste. besides, what happens if you want to change the drive inside to get a bigger one say in a year?

Seriously, you will be able to open it. You have to, since it will come with a base warranty (likely one year parts). And if AppleCare is offered on it, then I can't really expect Apple's plan is to just scrap the whole thing if it fails.

So I am sure it will not be "welded" shut with the plastic seams melted together. It will have screws or latches like the Mac Mini and :apple:tv. Within a day or two of it shipping, review sites will be breaking it open to see what's inside.

So when the base warranty or AppleCare ends and the HDD dies - or if the warranty is done and you want more space - you just crack it open and swap out the (failed) drive for the new one.

superspud
Jan 15, 2008, 01:36 PM
ok, so in attempts to read all of the technical mumbo jumbo i just got confused....


is this a wireless hard drive i can store and access my files from all around the house wirelessly?

or is it just a device i can use with time machine?

do i have to use time machine or can i just use it as a wireless hard drive?


PLEEEEEEAAAASEEE help :)

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 01:38 PM
I'm assuming the drive's performance is far superior to that of an external drive connected via USB?

SthrnCmfrtr
Jan 15, 2008, 01:38 PM
Only ugly if they continue to prevent the airport + HD from doing the same thing. Once we get new software updates over the next few days, watch and see if this changes.

No, it's pretty ugly regardless of whether they fix it now. And they will, I'm sure, since people will complain.

You can debate it all you want, but this sounds like Apple withheld a promised feature from one product in order to upsell its customers later. That's pretty ugly, in my book. Legal? Surely. A violation of business ethics? Nah. But ugly, something that I don't like, that reminds me my face looks suspiciously like Benjamin Franklin'$? Yeah.

I don't know, but I doubt you know either.

A pretty safe doubt. If I did, I wouldn't have bought my AEBS(n).

ChrisA
Jan 15, 2008, 01:39 PM
How about fixing the issues some people are having with the Airport Extreme Base Station first?

Looks like the fix required new hardware. I think the reason the airport "air disk" does not work well was a hardware design problem.

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 01:40 PM
Looks like the fix required new hardware. I think the reason the airport "air disk" does not work well was a hardware design problem.

Well, or else it has been changed completely. If the new drive is SATA, there is probably a SATA controller built-in and no need for USB at least for the internal one. There is no guarantee that the external USB drive would work for Time Machine.

ChrisA
Jan 15, 2008, 01:41 PM
is this a wireless hard drive i can store and access my files from all around the house wirelessly?

or is it just a device i can use with time machine?

The Apple web site says the new device can work with Windows and non-leopard Macs as a disk drive.

SthrnCmfrtr
Jan 15, 2008, 01:42 PM
This is very discouraging. It appears Apple has not corrected the data corruption errors associated with AirDisk and Time Machine.

I guess the "solution" is to purchase Apple's new "Time Capsule."

"We don't know how -- now, it just works!™"

I'm assuming the drive's performance is far superior to that of an external drive connected via USB?

Haha, NO. My AEBS(n)'s drives get about 5MB/sec tops.

scariaga
Jan 15, 2008, 01:43 PM
I'm also curious to find out how this works as an external drive. It would be nice if you could still connect via firewire to enjoy faster data transfer then wireless. I don't see a firewire connection on this so it looks like you would only be able to connect to the drive wirelessly. Is that correct?

bilbo--baggins
Jan 15, 2008, 01:43 PM
I wonder if they'll give everyone that's been screwed with the Airport Extreme a refund. Shocking that they haven't even fixed the problems with AirDisk and they go brining out a new product like this.

They prove themselves to be completely incompetent at producing wireless products like the Airport Extreme with AirDisk - and then bring out a new product that claims to do what everyone expected their Airport Express to do.

Wasted money aside - my advice is don't trust this product until it's clearly proven to be reliable. In my opinion Apple have a terrible track record with this type of product.

jacg
Jan 15, 2008, 01:45 PM
Thankfully I returned the AEBS I bought alongside Leopard. I'll probably get a Capsule once we see some real world speeds up.

Rantipole
Jan 15, 2008, 01:46 PM
So 3 weeks ago I spent $159 on an Airport Extreme and $120 on Leopard so I could plug my $120 HD into for Time Machine when they finally updated it to support backups wirelessly. Now Im out all that. Unbelievable.
You did that just three weeks before a Macworld????

No sympathy for you.

combatcolin
Jan 15, 2008, 01:46 PM
This could be very handy to watch films via a 360.

Well, DRM free films from certain sources anyway.

unclefudgly
Jan 15, 2008, 01:47 PM
According to the Apple Uk site

Time Capsule also works great as a wireless hard drive whether you have a Mac or PC. It sets up in a snap, giving you a networked hard drive you can use for storing and sharing any kinds of files.

So there you go it is a wireless network drive to boot!!


Hurrah!!!

balamw
Jan 15, 2008, 01:48 PM
You do it through the Apple TV2. It's a "source"

Not seeing this clearly in any of the info online for Time Capsule or :apple:TV. Link please!

For me this could be the device I've been hoping for to extend the capability of the :apple:TV, and I presume iTunes should be able to stream off it as well.

I don't want to leave my computers on all the time, but I do want my media to be accessible.

B

Perro
Jan 15, 2008, 01:49 PM
Seems pretty nice. Good size, good functionality.

I guess this requires an update to time machine, thus leopard, so..

Where is my leopard update?

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 01:50 PM
"We don't know how -- now, it just works!™"



Haha, NO. My AEBS(n)'s drives get about 5MB/sec tops.

You misunderstand. I'm saying my AEBS with USB drive is slow, but Time Capsule would presumably be faster since a large reason for the poor performance with AEBS + USB external is the USB factor.

PNW
Jan 15, 2008, 01:51 PM
Well, look back at my comment about my grandmother. She has a Macbook she uses to surf the web, send e-mails, and store photos from her digital camera and videos I send her of her grand-daughter.

If her hard drive dies, what would you suggest she do? What other product could she use to back-up her data? What's as easy as this? I can't think of many.

Um an external hard drive.


I am using a 500GB Maxtor Plus 4 as my local Time Machine store, and while it is wired, it's in a "sealed box".

Lots of people use external HDDs from companies like Seagate, WD, and Maxtor that are in "sealed boxes" as auxiliary storage.

Why is that such a bad thing in the Time Capsule? :confused:

If you really want to be able to swap HDDs, then buy an external wireless NAS that you need to supply your own HDD from someone else and go to town. :)

An external HDD enclosure costs ~$25. So it's not as big of a deal if you have to replace it with the drive. Time capsule puts you in the position of throwing out your airport extreme just because the attached external HDD is full or dead. That's just nuts.

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 01:51 PM
This could be very handy to watch films via a 360.

Well, DRM free films from certain sources anyway.

Huh? I thought the 360 required a upnp device to work - it can't use SMB mount points, right? I mean I can stream AVIs from my MBP now using connect360 but not directly from my USB drive that's attached to by AEBS. It has to run through a upnp device.

citi
Jan 15, 2008, 01:53 PM
Huh? I thought the 360 required a upnp device to work - it can't use SMB mount points, right? I mean I can stream AVIs from my MBP now using connect360 but not directly from my USB drive that's attached to by AEBS. It has to run through a upnp device.

Well I guess I will have to use the PS3 than. I have both.

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 01:54 PM
Well I guess I will have to use the PS3 than. I have both.

Lucky duck :)

Roy Hobbs
Jan 15, 2008, 01:58 PM
[QUOTE=PNW;4758888]Um an external hard drive.

Most users dont want an external hard drive attached to their notebook, kind of defeats the purpose of portability.

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:00 PM
I will be upset if they don't offer an update in the near future to add AEBS+USB-drive support to Time Machine. I will be extremely upset if they don't find a way to make the USB drives more reliable when used via the AEBS.

danny_w
Jan 15, 2008, 02:00 PM
You misunderstand. I'm saying my AEBS with USB drive is slow, but Time Capsule would presumably be faster since a large reason for the poor performance with AEBS + USB external is the USB factor.
I really don't think the USB factor has much if anything to do with the slowness of Air Disk. The bottleneck instead is the pokey processor in the AEBS. Translating a network protocol to/from disk block access is not a trivial task; that is exactly why most NAS devices are horribly slow (at least until you get into the multi-thousand dollar range of the commercial marketplace). Unless they improved the processor, I would not expect much if any better performance numbers from Time Capsule vs. Air Disk. Only time will tell...

unclefudgly
Jan 15, 2008, 02:02 PM
Personally I think this is the star of the show, a wireless base station with a 1tb network drive that will stream to Apple TV. Marvellous....

And it also does back ups apparently.

:D

SolRayz
Jan 15, 2008, 02:03 PM
So what are the chances for an update on our current AEBS's?:rolleyes:

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:03 PM
I really don't think the USB factor has much if anything to do with the slowness of Air Disk. The bottleneck instead is the pokey processor in the AEBS. Translating a network protocol to/from disk block access is not a trivial task; that is exactly why most NAS devices are horribly slow (at least until you get into the multi-thousand dollar range of the commercial marketplace). Unless they improved the processor, I would not expect much if any better performance numbers from Time Capsule vs. Air Disk. Only time will tell...

Interesting point Danny. In that case, I really hope they add Time Machine support for AEBS+USB. I cannot think of any reason that they wouldn't except for this being a money-grab.

jbembe
Jan 15, 2008, 02:04 PM
I've put off going wireless at home for a long time since I don't bring my MB home often. Recently I've been doing more website updates and want to start editing 2.5 years worth of movies we have taken since my son was born. Additionally, our 6 year old 80 gig hard drive is getting full and won't fit much of the edited movies on it.

This could be a great solution for me to replace the old external drive, which also houses my iTunes library- I wonder if this machine would replace it without problem?- and add wireless -2 birds with one stone here. How could I connect this to my stereo to stream iTunes, would that work? Then I could have wireless using my laptop, store movie clips and my itunes library on it (and maybe use time machine to some extent, I don't know if I'd want it since I won't back up my work files at home, we have an Xserve at work doing that).:cool:

Le Big Mac
Jan 15, 2008, 02:05 PM
ok, so in attempts to read all of the technical mumbo jumbo i just got confused....


is this a wireless hard drive i can store and access my files from all around the house wirelessly?

or is it just a device i can use with time machine?

do i have to use time machine or can i just use it as a wireless hard drive?


PLEEEEEEAAAASEEE help :)

It's pretty unclear from the website exactly what one can do. That said, it appears that

1) The internal hard drive is for Time Capsule use only (perhaps subject to change or hacking)

2) You can hook up an external HD to the USB port and get NAS functionality like on the AEBS.

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:05 PM
Personally I think this is the star of the show, a wireless base station with a 1tb network drive that will stream to Apple TV. Marvellous....

And it also does back ups apparently.

:D

Too many questions though. Even simply how good the enclosure is, are there now fans or do they take an approach like Seagate's FreeAgent Pro which is fanless, and if so how do they prevent overheating, etc. I wouldn't shell out money for this unless it's undergone at least a second revision or else undergone some serious stress testing...

Le Big Mac
Jan 15, 2008, 02:06 PM
Personally I think this is the star of the show, a wireless base station with a 1tb network drive that will stream to Apple TV. Marvellous....

And it also does back ups apparently.

:D

If that's true, I'd agree. But i'm not sure it's a full-on network drive as configured (although surely it can be hacked to be that . . . )

Baron58
Jan 15, 2008, 02:07 PM
Likely nothing - as long as you only have one Mac using it as a TMD. It might not be able to support more then one Mac.

Time Capsule seems to have software that allows it to maintain multiple, separate, Time Machine datastores so more then one Mac can use it, without overwriting each machine's datastore.

You are incorrect. Time Machine with a local HD does not 'partition' anything. It makes a folder called Backups.backupdb and inside that makes a separate folder for each machine that backs up to the same drive, into which it copies the differential changes since the last backup.

alshead
Jan 15, 2008, 02:07 PM
It's a pretty cool device, sure, but they've got millions of customers with laptops, tens of thousands who have Leopard installed, and most of whom wanted to use Time Machine- thousands of them with the Airport Extreme and an external drive. So, with all of those customers out there, why don't they fix the Airport Extreme so that a connected external drive will work with Time Machine? Like other readers, I have a fully-functioning AE with a 500GB HD, and a laptop. Seems like it's just a software update they could add to the AE to help us get the same functionality out of something we purchased with great hope of this feature not very long ago.

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 02:07 PM
An external HDD enclosure costs ~$25. So it's not as big of a deal if you have to replace it with the drive. Time capsule puts you in the position of throwing out your airport extreme just because the attached external HDD is full or dead. That's just nuts.

The thing comes with a warranty, and may very well offer AppleCare. So between one and three years, you'll be covered.

After that, just crack it open and swap out the HDD. The thing will not be "welded" shut with melted plastic, so the review sites will show how to take it apart within a day of getting it. Just print out the article and keep it safe. :D

pubwvj
Jan 15, 2008, 02:09 PM
Nice but too bad it lacks an audio out like the AirportExpress. I would like to have just one Airport base station.

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:10 PM
The thing comes with a warranty, and may very well offer AppleCare. So between one and three years, you'll be covered.

After that, just crack it open and swap out the HDD. The thing will not be "welded" shut with melted plastic, so the review sites will show how to take it apart within a day of getting it. Just print out the article and keep it safe. :D

Wow, I wish I shared your optimism! I hope you're right but I'm not willing to make the gamble right now.

combatcolin
Jan 15, 2008, 02:11 PM
Huh? I thought the 360 required a upnp device to work - it can't use SMB mount points, right? I mean I can stream AVIs from my MBP now using connect360 but not directly from my USB drive that's attached to by AEBS. It has to run through a upnp device.

Theres a bit of software called Twonkyvison installed as standard on a fair few other NAS, enables you to watch films via an xBox 360.

matttrick
Jan 15, 2008, 02:12 PM
just for the record, who is saying that the feature won't be restored for just the base station as well?

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:12 PM
Theres a bit of software called Twonkyvison installed as standard on a fair few other NAS, enables you to watch films via an xBox 360.

OK sure, but you still need either a upnp device or to use a NAS that supports the streaming. The Time Capsule itself won't be sufficient for streaming.

Deefuzz
Jan 15, 2008, 02:13 PM
This is pretty sweet. Especially since I was thinking of replacing my Linksys due to poor performance.

CWallace
Jan 15, 2008, 02:13 PM
Wow, I wish I shared your optimism! I hope you're right but I'm not willing to make the gamble right now.

And there is nothing wrong with that. If you are more comfortable with a different solution, more power to you. :D

I just get a bit...annoyed...at the folks who seem to portray the opinion if it's not perfect for them, then it is crap and nobody would see any value in it. :(

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:13 PM
just for the record, who is saying that the feature won't be restored for just the base station as well?

No one definitively I suppose, but check out this link. It suggests that the Time Capsule is the only product of the three that will do Time Machine backups.

http://www.apple.com/wifi/

phatspider
Jan 15, 2008, 02:14 PM
Once again, over ehre in the UK we're having to pay almost twice as much as the US.

UK Price: £199 ($393)

To be fair - if you add 17.5% as all US prices are before tax it works out over $350 so £180 or so if you get lucky with the exchange rate

So £199 isn't too bad

Certainly easier to stomach than the diff between $1799 and £1199 for the Macbook Air!

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:15 PM
And there is nothing wrong with that. If you are more comfortable with a different solution, more power to you. :D

I just get a bit...annoyed...at the folks who seem to portray the opinion if it's not perfect for them, then it is crap and nobody would see any value in it. :(

Hey if it works - even at $299 - I'll buy it. :)

I'm mainly a skeptic because this AEBS+USBdrive solution has been so horrid so far.

bilbo--baggins
Jan 15, 2008, 02:15 PM
It's a pretty cool device, sure, but they've got millions of customers with laptops, tens of thousands who have Leopard installed, and most of whom wanted to use Time Machine- thousands of them with the Airport Extreme and an external drive. So, with all of those customers out there, why don't they fix the Airport Extreme so that a connected external drive will work with Time Machine? Like other readers, I have a fully-functioning AE with a 500GB HD, and a laptop. Seems like it's just a software update they could add to the AE to help us get the same functionality out of something we purchased with great hope of this feature not very long ago.

When Apple dropped the price of the 8GB iPhone and there was uproar, and they gave everyone an AppleStore credit, I thought it was totally unnecessary. I mean, the iPhone did what it was supposed to do at the price people paid.

On the other hand, the AE + Airport Disk does not do what it's supposed to do, especially with Leopard, and I think it's disgraceful announcing a new product like Time Capsule without informing all of their existing customers what they're going to do about the messed up situation with Airport EXtreme. It's ridiculous enough that Time Machine isn't supported with Airport Disk, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. Many people cannot use their external USB drives with the AE at all since upgrading to Leopard. STILL.

relimw
Jan 15, 2008, 02:16 PM
Wouldn't Time Machine just take over the whole drive though? That's my one concern. I don't need a 500GB Time Machine, but if it can be divided up into multiple partitions then it would be useful.

Time Machine makes a top-level directory (folder), and then a subdirectory per each mac using it ie:

/Backups.backupdb/system_name1
/Backups.backupdb/system_name2
etc.

So it doesn't partition the drive, I would guess you would be able to add your own folders, ie /MyIHateAppleFolder, /WheresMyNewMacbookProAir, etc :D

Trepex
Jan 15, 2008, 02:18 PM
When Apple dropped the price of the 8GB iPhone and there was uproar, and they gave everyone an AppleStore credit, I thought it was totally unnecessary. I mean, the iPhone did what it was supposed to do at the price people paid.

On the other hand, the AE + Airport Disk does not do what it's supposed to do, especially with Leopard, and I think it's disgraceful announcing a new product like Time Capsule without informing all of their existing customers what they're going to do about the messed up situation with Airport EXtreme. It's ridiculous enough that Time Machine isn't supported with Airport Disk, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. Many people cannot use their external USB drives with the AE at all since upgrading to Leopard. STILL.

This quite sums up my feelings as well. Getting consistent performance from my AEBS configuration has been awful. In tiger I constantly got errors and had to plug the USB drive into my MBP, repair permissions or rename the volumes, then plug it back in and restart everything. In Leopard, I regularly get errors and have to relaunch Finder or else restart the AEBS. It sucks :(

If even the AEBS started working well with USB drives I would stomach the no-TimeMachine support.

I'm out for the day, good luck people!

xwk88
Jan 15, 2008, 02:20 PM
i will buy this if I have total control of the the disk(partitioning, NAS, and even network OS boot)otherwise if its just for back up I'm out of the market and will just buy the AEBS with a 1 TB HDD......

Stella
Jan 15, 2008, 02:21 PM
Very nice.

Snips
Jan 15, 2008, 02:27 PM
Nice but too bad it lacks an audio out like the AirportExpress. I would like to have just one Airport base station.

Seconded.

It's bonkers that the extreme doesn't have audio out.

macthetiger85
Jan 15, 2008, 02:28 PM
I bought a 2TB drive to hook up via usb to m new airport extreme before leopard came out strictly for time machine because i have a macbook - now all that is useless and i need another 300 dollar time capsule for half a terabyte or 500 for 1TB - this is horrible.

moniker
Jan 15, 2008, 02:30 PM
2) You can hook up an external HD to the USB port and get NAS functionality like on the AEBS.

Oh, the one that doesn't work.

At least not for me. It shows up just fine, with correct sizes and all, but I can't create a darn single file on it and I can't see whatever is already there. It works just fine when I connect it directly to a computer though.

Norwester
Jan 15, 2008, 02:31 PM
OK, so spent several months now waiting for a AEBS upgrade that makes the Airdisk feature work in Leopard. No real hope for Timedisk except hacking it.. and now this is Apples solution, buy our new device? If they don't upgrade AEBS to properly support Airdisk and Timemachine I'm going to be extremely pissed.

slabwax
Jan 15, 2008, 02:31 PM
Can I use this as a server for my SB-3 music player? Load it it up with 1200 cds wav files and just use the Time capsule without having to use my Mac book? If so I'm all over it. Can you use multiple TM's one for data one for audio etc.. .




Dean

SthrnCmfrtr
Jan 15, 2008, 02:32 PM
This quite sums up my feelings as well. Getting consistent performance from my AEBS configuration has been awful. In tiger I constantly got errors and had to plug the USB drive into my MBP, repair permissions or rename the volumes, then plug it back in and restart everything. In Leopard, I regularly get errors and have to relaunch Finder or else restart the AEBS. It sucks :(

If even the AEBS started working well with USB drives I would stomach the no-TimeMachine support.

Yep. I just stopped using the damn thing. Honestly, at this point even if they added Time Machine support to the AEBS(n), I still wouldn't use it. I deeply regret buying the damn thing -- it's actually the most unstable router I've ever used, to the point that the newest firmware (and some of the older versions) is completely unusable for me.

Spades
Jan 15, 2008, 02:33 PM
It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.

$20 iPod Touch update.
No video card upgrade path for last gen Mac Pros.
Time Machine crippled to sell a new device.

What the heck is wrong with Apple?

mothergoose45
Jan 15, 2008, 02:36 PM
You did that just three weeks before a Macworld????

No sympathy for you.

What? I had a hard drive already, so I bought Leopard and a Airport Extreme for when they announced it fixed. It was in there once why the hell would I think they would come out with something like this to screw us? Never thought it would happen. Thats why I bought it.

mambodancer
Jan 15, 2008, 02:54 PM
Is this just specifically for backup? Or can we like store stuff on it?

It can be used as a network drive for both PC's and Mac's.

msugarpants
Jan 15, 2008, 02:55 PM
I am no mac expert here. (R U?) but i recently (i month ago) bought the 179$ xtreme router cuz i was sick of all the other brands not working the way they should. Worked like a charm. I planned on using the USB port in the back to hook up the gobs of external drives (6) i have via one usb dongle device. Then i would find out how (not there yet) to access itunes with the PC laptop (i know, i know). NOW i read not only of a device that mightve been helpful a month ago, but that all you people are having trouble hooking up external drives to the device and accessing that drive via leopard!? Someone give me some good news and tips! meanwhile, i sure wish money grew on trees....or maybe i could start selling dope again. i dont know.

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 02:56 PM
Can the drive attached to the USB port be used for Time Machine too? If I can, I'm getting one of those and hooking up all my externals to it. It says in the specs you can attach a Drive to it. But so does the AEBS, and that doesn't seem to work at all. :-(

queryanalyzer
Jan 15, 2008, 03:00 PM
ok, so in attempts to read all of the technical mumbo jumbo i just got confused....


is this a wireless hard drive i can store and access my files from all around the house wirelessly?

or is it just a device i can use with time machine?

do i have to use time machine or can i just use it as a wireless hard drive?


PLEEEEEEAAAASEEE help :)

Look at Post# 59.... looks like it will work as a wireless HD.
Hope fully it can be used both as a Timemachine backup drive and as an external HDD, should let us partition it.

jonnySkyman
Jan 15, 2008, 03:01 PM
OK, so spent several months now waiting for a AEBS upgrade that makes the Airdisk feature work in Leopard. No real hope for Timedisk except hacking it.. and now this is Apples solution, buy our new device? If they don't upgrade AEBS to properly support Airdisk and Timemachine I'm going to be extremely pissed.

You are not on your own. I bought an AEBS,Leopard and a 500gb HDD for time machine.

Having just posted on the official Apple discussions i find they have removed my post immeadiately. Apple seem to have really shafted us and by speed of post removals they are very aware and actively hiding it.

Mydel
Jan 15, 2008, 03:01 PM
Thats a complete RIP_OFF!! I mean how cheap can they get. I have AEBS (2 of them) and external hard drives. Not onlt TM doesn't work with them but even regular airdisk thing NEVER work :mad: And instead of fixing they are trying to sell new product?????
Im pissed as hell!!!!!!!!

PharmD
Jan 15, 2008, 03:04 PM
I opted to skip out on the student price and bought the AEBS at Best Buy. Luckily, I bought it during the time that it qualifies for extended return policy (bought Nov 1 and can return through Jan 31). Now Time Capsule comes out and I'm not screwed over had I bought it at an Apple Store.

So looking forward to this since all we have are laptops in the house.

dwman
Jan 15, 2008, 03:14 PM
I'm not in the same boat as many here. I wanted to wait for today to see if any updates were being made to the MB. Now that there are none, I'm going to go ahead and buy one.

I have a Netgear NAS with 2 slots (1 for my Windows machine, was going to use the 2nd as a backup for my new MB) with a DLink router that backs up my data wirelessly. Any chance of getting TM to work with this configuration?

I'd rather not spend $300 on TC when I have a perfectly working backup solution already.

ilogic
Jan 15, 2008, 03:16 PM
the silly sh#$ is that, Apple preaches all in one devices!! now they have 3 different wireless devices, that opt different features! - for me its a huge blow, my external data is important to me and my back up is important to me... they want us to make more purchases when they have it in their power to correct it with one freakin firmware update! :mad:

Chris F
Jan 15, 2008, 03:17 PM
I hope this product will cause Apple to fix the current AEBS + USB + Time Machine issues.

The fact I own and AEBS and an external USB disk which I can not use with Time Machine (and doesen't work so hot at all TBH) and then they go and release a product that does exactly that greatly damages my opinion of Apple.

Spike Lightfoot
Jan 15, 2008, 03:20 PM
I'm assuming the drive's performance is far superior to that of an external drive connected via USB?

No, it's still has to be limited by wireless bandwidth. That's one of the things that irks me about Time Capsule: for wireless users there's no improvement in performance over the APE.

synth3tik
Jan 15, 2008, 03:22 PM
due to lack of OS or airport update I doubt they are helping out us that can not use our NAS drives. :mad:

This keynote kind of sucked.

MoSha
Jan 15, 2008, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by citi
It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.
$20 iPod Touch update.
No video card upgrade path for last gen Mac Pros.
Time Machine crippled to sell a new device.

What the heck is wrong with Apple?

Air disk was time machine feature that never made it into the release version. The problem from posts at the time seemed to be the formatting of some of the external hard drives interfering with time machine. Time machine needs to work consistently for all users. The best way to assure consistent and safe backups would be to have an apple supplied and formatted hard drive. The most controlled environment that one can find but safest and natural for a company that "does the whole banana".
You were not screwed, it was just that the best implementation of the feature changed. Anyway thats my take on this.
Hope that helps.

Thistledown
Jan 15, 2008, 03:25 PM
Can you do an install restore with Time Capsule? Specifically, if I have a catastrophic drive failure in my laptop and replace the drive, can I boot off the Leopard DVD and perform a Time Machine restore? I know I can do this from a firewire drive.

EagerDragon
Jan 15, 2008, 03:25 PM
If it can support multiple machines backup-up to it then some sort of partitioning must be going on, but I guess it depends whether this is hidden from the user or if its up to you to assign space and control permissions.

UK Prices:

500Gb - £199
1TB - £329

Time machine is suppoced to create a master directory at the disk level and inside that directory is suppoced to creat a sub-directory for each of your systems to contain all the versions of the backups.
Each machine is kept separetly with no particion so the space on the drive is used as needed and not limited to the partition size.

redwin11
Jan 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
We'll have to wait and see, but if Apple have chosen to keep it a Router with Internal HDD and not much else (as the name would suggest) - then surely they've missed a trick.

Combining two products that most computers users actually need (wireless router and back-up drive) is a great move, and I will more than likely buy this once my router packs in as i need a new external back-up at some point.

BUT...imagine if this could be used, essentially, as your home hub (nothing to do with BT for the UK readers) - being able to transfer files, music and movies to and from your desktop, laptop, mobile and ATV, as well being used as your main back-up? Then it would become an almost must-buy product and you would not have to worry about having such a large HDD on your computer (Macbook Air, anyone?)

In fact, what would have stopped Apple combining this with the ATV?
It could have sat under your TV, doing everything it needs to, and you simply use your TV to not only navigate through your files in a menu system (if need be), but also use it to download movies through the ATV menu - straight to the HDD.

Like i say, i still think the product has potential, especially if you CAN use it as storage as well as back-up, but surely the iHub® would have whet more appetites - and you can be sure they'd have sold more of those than ATV and this together.

Mydel
Jan 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
Air disk was time machine feature that never made it into the release version. The problem from posts at the time seemed to be the formatting of some of the external hard drives interfering with time machine. Time machine needs to work consistently for all users. The best way to assure consistent and safe backups would be to have an apple supplied and formatted hard drive. The most controlled environment that one can find but safest and natural for a company that "does the whole banana".
You were not screwed, it was just that the best implementation of the feature changed. Anyway thats my take on this.
Hope that helps.

He? What you talking about??? Its enough to format the drive?? Do you think that its Apple HD?? Its regular drive....Server Grade...Very funny

ilflyya
Jan 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
Folks,

I'm no expert in computers, but I do know this, computers never appreciate or work as first advertised! When I shop for a car, I know NEVER to buy the first model...EVER. First models have quirks that need to be worked out. This goes with computers, I'll let someone else buy the new stuff, praise and complain, and then I make a choice, only after careful research. Don't be an early adopter unless you have money to burn, or can justify the purchase.

I also look into what I REALLY need as far as my computer set up/wireless network. Airport Extreme looks great, but it had problems, I read about them on here and other blogs, so I steered clear. If you didn't do this, maybe you should have? Lesson Learned. Also, a no brainer, Keynote was coming up and highly advertised on the web, so why not wait? I don't feel bad for those who bought an extreme weeks before. Lesson Learned. Time Capsule looks great, but I don't need it yet with my current set up, and I'll wait to see how it really performs.

I'm actually not too impressed with the Keynote. Apple Rocks, don't get me wrong! My personal hopes were for Blu-Ray drives. I'm not going to waste any money on anything until that happens.

As with anything, use common sense. Apple is a company out to make a profit like everyone else, learn the game, and go with the flow. Buyer remorse should be motivation enough.

lazyrighteye
Jan 15, 2008, 03:26 PM
yeah...as I read between the two products, I thought, wait, this is airport extreme with a hard drive. Why couldn't they just update the firmware in airport extreme? Sucks for people who already bought one.

It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.

I just realized precisely the same thing. Ugly, ugly realization.

Ditto that.
I bought an AEBS a few weeks ago and have been shopping HDs.
Was a bit miffed to learn TIme Machine does not support wireless backup to AEBS. Now I see why.

Sucks.

What's are Apple Store return policies on, say, a brand new AEBS?

Crap...

alst
Jan 15, 2008, 03:28 PM
Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

Obviously Time Machine wireless backups can be done....Time Capsule proves it.

This isn't released for 2 weeks. Patience people....

It has a built in airport extreme. Apple isn't stupid enough to expect people with existing AEBS to junk them simply to get this functionality. So there is nothing to lose by releasing the update to the AEBS firmware, or 10.5.2 to solve the problem. They won't lose sales...

But, and this is only a theory mind you, by pulling the functionality in Leopard knowing full well that Time Capsule was coming, they have probably held a few people off buying the airport extreme and another vendors hard drive.

So now, anyone who wants an airport extreme would be mad not to buy a time capsule instead and Apple make a bit more profit off of the premium for the hard drive.

As long as there really isn't a fundamental problem with external USB drives being used versus some sort of internal SATA link then I would be very surprised if the AEBS + external USB with Time Machine never arrives.

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 03:30 PM
Does this mean no AirDrive support (ie USB-attached drive + AEBS) for Time Machine?

Ya, I am not very amused by this. Welp, anyone wanna buy an AirPort Extreme Base station ? Brand new, only used 2 times.

eme jota ce
Jan 15, 2008, 03:32 PM
I wonder if they'll give everyone that's been screwed with the Airport Extreme a refund. Shocking that they haven't even fixed the problems with AirDisk and they go brining out a new product like this.



I called customer service. Apple will allow anyone to exchange their AirPort 802.11n base station for the Time Capsule -- as long as you bought your base station within the last 14 days.

The customer service rep fully understood that I had purchased during the Leopard pre-release and that it was reasonable for me to conclude that Time Capsule is a Hardware replacement for the missing Leopard / AEBS feature, but wanted to make sure that Apple customers understand how long 14 days is.

EagerDragon
Jan 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
As far as I know NAS drives (TODAY) can not be used with Time Machine. There maybe some hacks out there and I think someone posted the name of "iTimeMachine" as an option. I would not try it under any condition, it is my data being backup, I want to make sure it is safe and that it will continue to work from system upgrade to system upgrade.

I agree with you all that Apple needs to fix the AirDisk, it will create too much bad blood otherwise and maybe a suit or two.

I personnaly plan to buy the new device as it does everything I need and I needed a 802.11n router anyway. Price is comparable and it is actualy promised to work with Time machine. I have 3 Macs to backup and I am tired of moving the current drive from system to system.
:apple:

ilogic
Jan 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

Obviously Time Machine wireless backups can be done....Time Capsule proves it.

This isn't released for 2 weeks.


As long as there really isn't a fundamental problem with external USB drives being used versus some sort of internal SATA link then I would be very surprised if the AEBS + external USB with Time Machine never arrives.

I hope you're right, is there somewhere we can nag apple so they know our grief?

combatcolin
Jan 15, 2008, 03:39 PM
OK sure, but you still need either a upnp device or to use a NAS that supports the streaming. The Time Capsule itself won't be sufficient for streaming.

I think you have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick.

;)

The end of said stick i was implying obtains content from certain places that may or may not be a tad naughty and not have any DRM placed in them.

Stick may also be connected to a certain type of wire that might be a bit Limeish, stick could also be used in torrents of water that might have bits in them.

;)

ascender
Jan 15, 2008, 03:43 PM
I called customer service. Apple will allow anyone to exchange their AirPort 802.11n base station for the Time Capsule -- as long as you bought your base station within the last 14 days.

Interesting.... I wonder if that would be on some sort of rebate system? So you buy your Capsule, take delivery, then send your AEBS back with proof of purchase?

I think Time Capsule is a great device, but the whole Airdisk shambles has soured things. Airdisk simply isn't reliable and shouldn't have been released in its current state as its clearly buggy. Just check out all the threads on here and the Apple forums.

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 03:47 PM
Interesting.... I wonder if that would be on some sort of rebate system? So you buy your Capsule, take delivery, then send your AEBS back with proof of purchase?

I think Time Capsule is a great device, but the whole Airdisk shambles has soured things. Airdisk simply isn't reliable and shouldn't have been released in its current state as its clearly buggy. Just check out all the threads on here and the Apple forums.

Is "AirDisk" only referring to a disc attached to the AEBS?
I want to get a Mac Mini, hook up a USB drive to it and use the (shared) Drive to backup my Macbook that would be on the same network. In other words, does Time Machine work with shared drives?

ascender
Jan 15, 2008, 03:50 PM
Yes, Airdisk is the term Apple uses for sharing a HDD via the USB connection on the Extreme. But it doesn't actually work that well at the moment....

SolRayz
Jan 15, 2008, 03:52 PM
I called customer service. Apple will allow anyone to exchange their AirPort 802.11n base station for the Time Capsule -- as long as you bought your base station within the last 14 days.

The customer service rep fully understood that I had purchased during the Leopard pre-release and that it was reasonable for me to conclude that Time Capsule is a Hardware replacement for the missing Leopard / AEBS feature, but wanted to make sure that Apple customers understand how long 14 days is.

Yeah but what about people who bought an AEBS after 14 days with the anticipation of Time Machine Airdisk support...besides that, Apple needs to seriously release updates for the AEBS in general. It has been nothing but flaky when trying to access AEBS through Airport Utilities since day one! :mad:

chaird
Jan 15, 2008, 03:54 PM
I have had a airport extreme since June 07 and finally just bought a 1TB my-book pro from best buy last week it was 349. I am planning on returning he hard-drive and buying the 1TB time capsule as long as you can also share it as a hard-drive. I really wish apple would have just fixed time machine and allowed wireless back ups from the start.

mojohanna
Jan 15, 2008, 03:59 PM
So 3 weeks ago I spent $159 on an Airport Extreme and $120 on Leopard so I could plug my $120 HD into for Time Machine when they finally updated it to support backups wirelessly. Now Im out all that. Unbelievable.

No you are not. Its not like the stuff you just bought is going to stop working now. You will get good use out of everything you purchased.

combatcolin
Jan 15, 2008, 04:04 PM
please delete me let me go.

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 04:08 PM
Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

Obviously Time Machine wireless backups can be done....Time Capsule proves it.

This isn't released for 2 weeks. Patience people....

It has a built in airport extreme. Apple isn't stupid enough to expect people with existing AEBS to junk them simply to get this functionality. So there is nothing to lose by releasing the update to the AEBS firmware, or 10.5.2 to solve the problem. They won't lose sales...

But, and this is only a theory mind you, by pulling the functionality in Leopard knowing full well that Time Capsule was coming, they have probably held a few people off buying the airport extreme and another vendors hard drive.

So now, anyone who wants an airport extreme would be mad not to buy a time capsule instead and Apple make a bit more profit off of the premium for the hard drive.

As long as there really isn't a fundamental problem with external USB drives being used versus some sort of internal SATA link then I would be very surprised if the AEBS + external USB with Time Machine never arrives.

Backing up over wireless works fine. Although slow for the base backup, snapshots are quick. There are some minor quirks to it.

However, I have been backing up 2 laptops over wireless (and wired) since Leopard has been released. (Over SMB, to a Linux server) It works fine.

If you are backing up to a remote Leopard installed machine it also works fine. (Over AFP)

There is *NO* reason Apple couldn't make the AEBS work with Timemachine. Apple decided to go the Time Capsule route to make more money off it. Who can blame them ?

However, I am not going to dump money on it. Not only is it cheaper to buy drives outside of it, I am not going to dump a bunch of cash on a device that does storage for 1 thing. The 2 TB existing system I have, I can use for more then just timemachine storage. I also store media there and SVN backups.

Mydel
Jan 15, 2008, 04:11 PM
No you are not. Its not like the stuff you just bought is going to stop working now. You will get good use out of everything you purchased.

Dont cut Apple slack.:mad: They just want to rip us off!! Its plain wrong, and thats the first time I hope someone will sue they collective ass for it. Of course in case they wont fix AEBS+HD via USB and TM

ilogic
Jan 15, 2008, 04:17 PM
Dont cut Apple slack.:mad: They just want to rip us off!! Its plain wrong, and thats the first time I hope someone will sue they collective ass for it. Of course in case they wont fix AEBS+HD via USB and TM

As much as i'm a macaddict and faithful, i agree with you, because I'm a fanboy but i'm not a blind fanboy and they need to do things right... and this AEBS is bullish, I don't care if i have scandalize! It aint right if they keep things this way

Plymouthbreezer
Jan 15, 2008, 04:19 PM
I bought a 2TB drive to hook up via usb to m new airport extreme before leopard came out strictly for time machine because i have a macbook - now all that is useless and i need another 300 dollar time capsule for half a terabyte or 500 for 1TB - this is horrible.
Your current setup will still work, no? :confused:

Anyway, this seems a bit high priced, even for Apple.

megfilmworks
Jan 15, 2008, 04:25 PM
How about fixing the issues some people are having with the Airport Extreme Base Station first?

We have 3 laptops, 2 workstations and 2 iPhones all running off my AEBS with zero problems.
My two biggest complaints with my AEBS were just fixed:
Third party drive compatibility and wireless Time Machine backup for the all of the computers. Brilliant and simple.
Thanks Apple!!

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 04:28 PM
Backing up over wireless works fine. Although slow for the base backup, snapshots are quick. There are some minor quirks to it.

However, I have been backing up 2 laptops over wireless (and wired) since Leopard has been released. (Over SMB, to a Linux server) It works fine.

If you are backing up to a remote Leopard installed machine it also works fine. (Over AFP)

There is *NO* reason Apple couldn't make the AEBS work with Timemachine. Apple decided to go the Time Capsule route to make more money off it. Who can blame them ?

However, I am not going to dump money on it. Not only is it cheaper to buy drives outside of it, I am not going to dump a bunch of cash on a device that does storage for 1 thing. The 2 TB existing system I have, I can use for more then just timemachine storage. I also store media there and SVN backups.

Is said backing up to a remote Leopard installed machine (AFP) supported, i.e. does the shared drive appear in Time Machine Preferences per default?

epardilla
Jan 15, 2008, 04:30 PM
We have 3 laptops, 2 workstations and 2 iPhones all running off my AEBS with zero problems.
My two biggest complaints with my AEBS were just fixed:
Third party drive compatibility and wireless Time Machine backup for the all of the computers. Brilliant and simple.
Thanks Apple!!

Yeah whatever, we all can do that, but the problem that Apple has not resolved is the reliable functionality of mounting a USB hard drive to ther AEBS... instead they resolve the problem with more crap to buy, and not a mention of a possible update to fix the problem which has been around since Leopard came out and Apple removed the Airport Disk Utility. :mad:

Where is this fabled 10.5.2???

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 04:33 PM
Is said backing up to a remote Leopard installed machine (AFP) supported, i.e. does the shared drive appear in Time Machine Preferences per default?

Direct from: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html

You can designate just about any HFS+ formatted FireWire or USB drive connected to a Mac as a Time Machine backup drive. Time Machine can also back up to another Mac running Leopard with Personal File Sharing, Leopard Server, or Xsan storage devices.

macintel4me
Jan 15, 2008, 04:39 PM
Man, how do I do backups on a single drive. This would be perfect if I could get two 500GB drives and have a RAID-1 configuration.

This is ashame since I'm looking for just that. I guess I'll have to get an AirPort Extreme and an external RAID-1 dual-bay HDD setup. :(

Spike Lightfoot
Jan 15, 2008, 04:39 PM
Via http://web.archive.org/web/20070710043919/http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html we read:

With a hard disk connected to your AirPort Extreme Base Station, all the Macs in your house can use Time Machine to back up wirelessly. Simply select your AirPort Disk as the backup disk for each computer and the whole family can enjoy the benefits of Time Machine.

This is why many of us bought Airport Extreme Base Stations, and this is why many of us bought Leopard.

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 04:39 PM
Direct from: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html

Neat. Thank you. Well, guess I'm getting a Mac Mini then and enslave it as my home server for long video encodes, File Server, Backup Server, iTunes Library Share, DVR (via eyeTV) etc. :D

EDIT: Well, actually it doesn't specifically say "wireless". I guess it should work but I'd love to confirm that.
My plan is getting a Mac Mini, hooking up a USB drive to the Mac Mini. Then share that USB drive and use it to wirelessly backup my Macbook which is on the same Network. If you can confirm this, please PM me.

mattvolp
Jan 15, 2008, 04:44 PM
Who cares? Seems pretty lame to me...

godspeed
Jan 15, 2008, 04:46 PM
An adsl 2 modem in it would have been nice..........

jmFightSpam
Jan 15, 2008, 04:48 PM
Hi,

Can someone bottom line this for me?

Is it fact that we will be able to use Time Machine with our current AEBS with an external USB hard drive attached to it? Is it rumor? Or will we absolutely not be able to do this?

Thanks.

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 04:49 PM
Neat. Thank you. Well, guess I'm getting a Mac Mini then and enslave it as my home server for long video encodes, File Server, Backup Server, iTunes Library Share, DVR (via eyeTV) etc. :D

EDIT: Well, actually it doesn't specifically say "wireless". I guess it should work but I'd love to confirm that.
My plan is getting a Mac Mini, hooking up a USB drive to the Mac Mini. Then share that USB drive and use it to wirelessly backup my Macbook which is on the same Network. If you can confirm this, please PM me.

I can confirm for you it does in fact work. I tried it from my MBP to my girlfriends MBP and it worked fine.

I was going to head the Mini route, but its too expensive for just a single purpose. It makes more sense for me to use a Linux server, since its already being used for quite a few tasks. (File serving, encoding, mythtv, etc)

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 04:52 PM
Hi,

Can someone bottom line this for me?

Is it fact that we will be able to use Time Machine with our current AEBS with an external USB hard drive attached to it? Is it rumor? Or will we absolutely not be able to do this?

Thanks.

As of current it will connect ... HOWEVER. Its very unstable, extraordinary slow and plagued with problems. For example a simple power blip requires you to unmount the drive, bring it to a Mac, have it run fsck on it, umount it, bring it back to your AEBS, plug it back in and remount it.

Don't use an AEBS for TM, its not worth it.

jmFightSpam
Jan 15, 2008, 04:56 PM
As of current it will connect ... HOWEVER. Its very unstable, extraordinary slow and plagued with problems. For example a simple power blip requires you to unmount the drive, bring it to a Mac, have it run fsck on it, umount it, bring it back to your AEBS, plug it back in and remount it.

Don't use an AEBS for TM, its not worth it.

Until, of course, they provide another Leopard update that fixes that problem, I guess.

lukechip
Jan 15, 2008, 04:56 PM
I was initially disappointed that TimeMachine + AEBS was pulled from Leopard.

But then I realised that I don't want my backup drive permanently connected to the power socket and my network. Too many things could happen which kill both my PC and my backup

-power surge / lightning strike
-hack
-malware

So my backup drive sits unplugged from all power and USB, and only gets plugged in when I backup at the end of each day. Sure I lose the hourly backup power of TM, but my data is more secure. And being paranoid, I have a second backup drive (weekly) which lives in my garage - in case of a burglary or house fire, and a .Mac backup of critical files - in case of massive house fire !

So, while TimeCapsule is a good thing, and will bring backup to even more people, I'd have to be relying on it for recovering from a lightning strike. We had a strike a couple of weeks ago which fried my iMac, my ADSL modem, my iPod charger, a telephone. All it needed to do was kill my backup drive and I was in deep doo-doo.

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 04:59 PM
I can confirm for you it does in fact work. I tried it from my MBP to my girlfriends MBP and it worked fine.

I was going to head the Mini route, but its too expensive for just a single purpose. It makes more sense for me to use a Linux server, since its already being used for quite a few tasks. (File serving, encoding, mythtv, etc)

Thanks. Well, I like the ease of Apple Remote Desktop (especially the built in one with Leopard). On a quick network, you barely notice that you're working on a remote machine. I love OSX because of the freeware and commercial software you can get for it, coupled with the ease of use for mundane tasks that just is not there on Linux yet.

All those USB drives in my room are loud and emit that very low frequency flanging vibration (one case got 2 7.200 rpm drives and a fan in it) and I switch it off as often as I can. XGrid is also fun :-)

eme jota ce
Jan 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
There is *NO* reason Apple couldn't make the AEBS work with Timemachine. Apple decided to go the Time Capsule route to make more money off it. Who can blame them ?

However, I am not going to dump money on it.

Apparently, Wall Street thinks we aren't going to dump money on today's products as well. Stock fell about 5.5% today and another 3.5% in after hours trading.

The $179 I wasted on an 802.11n base station in anticipation of Leopard / Time Machine based upon the company's early feature list, doesn't matter to Apple, but the billions in lost market cap today should.

Teddy's
Jan 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.

What a greedy company Apple has become. Next, we will see Steve Jobs off the play. Back to the dark 90's again.

mrkraemer
Jan 15, 2008, 05:35 PM
So 3 weeks ago I spent $159 on an Airport Extreme and $120 on Leopard so I could plug my $120 HD into for Time Machine when they finally updated it to support backups wirelessly. Now Im out all that. Unbelievable.

I agree! I purchased and upgraded to Leopard in Nov 07 and purchased an external hard drive. I previously purchased the Airport Extreme Base Station in anticipation of being able to wirelessly backup my MBP via the AEBS and Time Machine. Who would have guessed that this feature would be yanked last minute upon Leopard's release. So now I have spent $500 + and I still cannot communicate wirelessly with Time Machine. So where is the firmware update??? Today it came in the form of a $299/$499 hardware release called Time Capsule. Thanks a lot Apple! Way to cheat your customers. This hardware should have been mentioned before/upon release of Leopard so all of us idiots could have been saved the heartache of throwing away money on non-apple hardware that was supposed to be able to work with Time Machine and AEBS. I will most certainly be holding onto my $$$ instead if buying an iPhone (which I had planned to purchase this week) following your anticipated keynote. I have learned my lesson... Apple does not seem to care about it's customers. More $$$ for Apple if they yank a feature and then later exploit it by forcing customers, that want it to work the way it should have, by purchasing additional pricy equipment. What's up with that Steve???

stevesidea
Jan 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
Can I get to that drive from anywhere? Are you able to set it up with an IP and login?

Daveway
Jan 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
Can you do an install restore with Time Capsule? Specifically, if I have a catastrophic drive failure in my laptop and replace the drive, can I boot off the Leopard DVD and perform a Time Machine restore? I know I can do this from a firewire drive.

Yes you can. The Mac OSX install disk has wifi support built in. This is also how the MBA can install OSX remotely.

craigiest
Jan 15, 2008, 06:06 PM
i'd love to be able to acces whatever files i want from anywhere in my house wirelessly....

turn on file sharing on your main computer.

bathysphere
Jan 15, 2008, 06:08 PM
What a greedy company Apple has become. Next, we will see Steve Jobs off the play. Back to the dark 90's again.

surprise! apple is greedy. i was shocked a number of years ago when we suddenly had to pay for the 'ilife' applications which were previously free (or, at least, included in the price of osx). none of this crap surprises me anymore.

i seriously hope they do release an update that lets us do tm backups over airport, that was a pretty significant selling point of the airport extreme when it was announced. apple is pretty good at artificially crippling their hardware so they can further tier their product line.

MarkW19
Jan 15, 2008, 06:17 PM
Can this replace my wireless router (Netgear) - do I just plug the DSL cable from the wall into Time Capsule? Or would I need a separate DSL modem too?

ascender
Jan 15, 2008, 06:19 PM
Can this replace my wireless router (Netgear) - do I just plug the DSL cable from the wall into Time Capsule? Or would I need a separate DSL modem too?

No, there's no modem built-in, so you could keep your Netgear and connect it to the Time Capsule by cat5.

jaw04005
Jan 15, 2008, 06:22 PM
Apparently, Wall Street thinks we aren't going to dump money on today's products as well. Stock fell about 5.5% today and another 3.5% in after hours trading.

That's called profit taking, and it happens at every major product announcement including last year's iPhone announcement.

Wait until Apple releases their Q1 earnings report before you start dogging the stock. That's a true indicator.

katorga
Jan 15, 2008, 06:22 PM
Color me unimpressed.

1TB is not enough to provide adequate time machine space for the 2 macs in my house.

Embedding a disk drive, with its high failure rates, in a router means you will be replacing the router every time the disk fails.

Disks are heat sensitive, and airport extreme routers are HOT inside.

Finally, all I need is a disk with a network interface, everyone on the planet already has a router or wap.

gnasher729
Jan 15, 2008, 06:30 PM
Well, look back at my comment about my grandmother. She has a Macbook she uses to surf the web, send e-mails, and store photos from her digital camera and videos I send her of her grand-daughter.

If her hard drive dies, what would you suggest she do? What other product could she use to back-up her data? What's as easy as this? I can't think of many.

It's not just you grandmother. 4 percent of all home users do regular backups. That is one in 25. Maybe the percentage is higher among the people posting on this thread, but not much and definitely not enough. With Time Capsule, it isn't hard to backup, it is hard to not backup.

Val-kyrie
Jan 15, 2008, 06:34 PM
I agree! I purchased and upgraded to Leopard in Nov 07 and purchased an external hard drive. I previously purchased the Airport Extreme Base Station in anticipation of being able to wirelessly backup my MBP via the AEBS and Time Machine. Who would have guessed that this feature would be yanked last minute upon Leopard's release. So now I have spent $500 + and I still cannot communicate wirelessly with Time Machine. So where is the firmware update??? Today it came in the form of a $299/$499 hardware release called Time Capsule. Thanks a lot Apple! Way to cheat your customers. This hardware should have been mentioned before/upon release of Leopard so all of us idiots could have been saved the heartache of throwing away money on non-apple hardware that was supposed to be able to work with Time Machine and AEBS. I will most certainly be holding onto my $$$ instead if buying an iPhone (which I had planned to purchase this week) following your anticipated keynote. I have learned my lesson... Apple does not seem to care about it's customers. More $$$ for Apple if they yank a feature and then later exploit it by forcing customers, that want it to work the way it should have, by purchasing additional pricy equipment. What's up with that Steve???

If indeed Time Capsule is Apple's solution to the problem of connecting an external HDD via USB to the AEBS, then that is a bit low - sly, but low. However, it should also be pointed out that many people who bought the AEBS and an external USB HDD made an assumption which you also state:

I previously purchased the Airport Extreme Base Station in anticipation of being able to wirelessly backup my MBP via the AEBS and Time Machine. Who would have guessed that this feature would be yanked last minute upon Leopard's release.

Thus, while I sympathize with you to some extent, you also need to realize that you made a decision based on rumors and pre-release information before all of the features were finalized. It was a gamble you took that unfortunately did not pay off for you.

mothergoose45
Jan 15, 2008, 06:35 PM
No you are not. Its not like the stuff you just bought is going to stop working now. You will get good use out of everything you purchased.

Yoou know what i meant.

joemama
Jan 15, 2008, 06:42 PM
Wouldn't it have made more sense to combine Time Capsule and AppleTV into one box? This way you get:

one device that backs up your computers hard drive, stores downloaded movies and music which can be shared on any Mac connected to the device? It sits right next to your TV and makes all devices talk to one another.

Call it......heck who knows, call it whatever you want.

Mydel
Jan 15, 2008, 06:44 PM
Thus, while I sympathize with you to some extent, you also need to realize that you made a decision based on rumors and pre-release information before all of the features were finalized. It was a gamble you took that unfortunately did not pay off for you.

Rumors?? Are you kiddin me??:mad: That was on Apple site!!! They say its supported, and AirDisk is suppose to work. Call me cheap but I spent 170 for AEBS and 250 for HD and I expect it to work as advertised

Spike Lightfoot
Jan 15, 2008, 06:51 PM
Rumors?? Are you kiddin me??:mad: That was on Apple site!!! They say its supported, and AirDisk is suppose to work. Call me cheap but I spent 170 for AEBS and 250 for HD and I expect it to work as advertised

You betcha, here's the archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20070710043919/http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html

wendyw
Jan 15, 2008, 06:59 PM
[QUOTE=Slip;4758105]I don't think so, it's literally just a hard drive fitted into an AirPort Extreme base station so you just access it like a remote hard drive

:(
according to the description of Time Capsule, it is a wireless ABS AND server - which, after many hours on the phone with support trying to use Time Machine wirelessly, is the only way we can do it. And we bought a 1 TB external to back up 1 G5 and 3 (various) macBooks/PowerBooks. Not happpy. Not happy at all. But the Product Specialist I spoke to on Sunday (yes, 2 days ago) after 1 1/2 hours, said the only way we can do this is to have the external HD (dedicated Time Machine device) connected to a server. And now they introduce Capsule. Misleading literature with the Time Machine /Leopard launch.

again. Not happy.

/dev/toaster
Jan 15, 2008, 07:07 PM
Thanks. Well, I like the ease of Apple Remote Desktop (especially the built in one with Leopard). On a quick network, you barely notice that you're working on a remote machine. I love OSX because of the freeware and commercial software you can get for it, coupled with the ease of use for mundane tasks that just is not there on Linux yet.

All those USB drives in my room are loud and emit that very low frequency flanging vibration (one case got 2 7.200 rpm drives and a fan in it) and I switch it off as often as I can. XGrid is also fun :-)

Oh don't get me wrong, using OS X for a server is great. However, since I do Linux administration full time it doesn't phase me to maintain another system. (Over 100 at work, and 5 personal servers)

I can hear ya on the noise. I have quite a few external drives all 7200 RPM. Not to mention my other server has 4 very old SATA drives that sound like jet engines.

Val-kyrie
Jan 15, 2008, 07:33 PM
Rumors?? Are you kiddin me??:mad: That was on Apple site!!! They say its supported, and AirDisk is suppose to work. Call me cheap but I spent 170 for AEBS and 250 for HD and I expect it to work as advertised

I will gladly retract the word "rumors" but I believe the Apple site at that time said that the features were subject to change, or something like that; though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think you are cheap and you certainly spent a lot of money - it would be a lot of money for me anyways - to get the hardware. From the previous conversation, it appears that the Air Disk/TM feature for HDD support for the AEBS was a pre-finalized Leopard feature only. If it was however a finalized feature then Apple is ethically responsible to correct the glitches in this feature.

matttrick
Jan 15, 2008, 07:36 PM
when you really think about the possibility of HDD failure, and the idea of replacing the entire $500 unit in that case, coupled with the withholding of this feature from time machine on a standalone HDD/AEBS, this is looking pretty unattractive.

i am guessing its too much to ask to expect this thing to be able to play music on my stereo as well? i feel like some of apple's features are oddly spread out right now, when they should be more standard.

matttrick
Jan 15, 2008, 07:37 PM
I will gladly retract the word "rumors" but I believe the Apple site at that time said that the features were subject to change, or something like that; though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think you are cheap and you certainly spent a lot of money - it would be a lot of money for me anyways - to get the hardware. From the previous conversation, it appears that the Air Disk/TM feature for HDD support for the AEBS was a pre-finalized Leopard feature only. If it was however a finalized feature then Apple is ethically responsible to correct the glitches in this feature.

even if it wasn't finalized, you still dont pull a bait and switch on people like this. i know this doesn't technically count as a bait and switch, but its so borderline close, and really really shady to do.

bathysphere
Jan 15, 2008, 07:46 PM
I will gladly retract the word "rumors" but I believe the Apple site at that time said that the features were subject to change, or something like that; though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think you are cheap and you certainly spent a lot of money - it would be a lot of money for me anyways - to get the hardware. From the previous conversation, it appears that the Air Disk/TM feature for HDD support for the AEBS was a pre-finalized Leopard feature only. If it was however a finalized feature then Apple is ethically responsible to correct the glitches in this feature.

for me, i'm more irritated that it was a feature that they used to sell airport extreme units. yeah it's kinda ridiculous that they pulled the feature from an otherwise finalized feature set at the last (or essentially last) minute, but i would have bought leopard anyway. however, the ability to use time machine to backup was a substantial reason for purchase from me, and it's frustrating to have an airport base station that under-delivers on so a couple different levels (can't block wan ping? seriously?), and then has features ripped out of them.

Val-kyrie
Jan 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
You betcha, here's the archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20070710043919/http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html

Thanks for proving my point with evidence. The cached page clearly reads: "All features referenced in the Mac OS X Leopard website are subject to change."

letsdiscussit
Jan 15, 2008, 07:57 PM
I am damn mad at Apple. I just bought the AEBS last week for the only reason to get my 500 GIG HD running but the Base Station does not work at all, despite the fact that I run Tiger. In my opinion, if Leopard or Tiger, it doesn't have anything to with it. I tried all possible drive formattings, nothing helps. It doesn't get recognized.

Val-kyrie
Jan 15, 2008, 07:57 PM
even if it wasn't finalized, you still dont pull a bait and switch on people like this. i know this doesn't technically count as a bait and switch, but its so borderline close, and really really shady to do.

for me, i'm more irritated that it was a feature that they used to sell airport extreme units. yeah it's kinda ridiculous that they pulled the feature from an otherwise finalized feature set at the last (or essentially last) minute, but i would have bought leopard anyway. however, the ability to use time machine to backup was a substantial reason for purchase from me, and it's frustrating to have an airport base station that under-delivers on so a couple different levels (can't block wan ping? seriously?), and then has features ripped out of them.

I totally understand your frustration, and I wish Apple had not done this because it does appear "underhanded" and as "bait and switch" as you both state. The sour taste is felt in our mouths because it would appear that Apple should be able to fix the AEBS functionality and now is selling Time Capsule instead. I would rather/also prefer to see AEBS fixed, as well.

helo
Jan 15, 2008, 08:02 PM
Once again, over ehre in the UK we're having to pay almost twice as much as the US.

UK Price: £199 ($393)

the 500gb model is £152 in the US without sales tax

the 500gb model is £169.36 in the UK without sales tax (VAT)

that's an £18 difference, not twice the price. Duh.

MattInOz
Jan 15, 2008, 08:08 PM
So, question. I have an iMac with 750GB HDD. And I wanna get a MacBook Air. Can I use the Time Capsule as an external drive to use Time Machine with both the iMac (hooked up via USB) and the MacBook Air (wireless)?

If your iMac is always on, or at least on all the times you'd want to back up.
An leopard machine can host a time machine drive for any other leopard machine. So you don't even need a time capsule any old drive attached (usb/firewire/internal) to the iMac will work for you.

I wonder if you have an external drive set up for time machine before you migrate an account to the macbook air will it continue to use the same Time Machine drive?

helo
Jan 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
I am damn mad at Apple. I just bought the AEBS last week

who buys apple hardware the week before macworld? seriously?

ibwb
Jan 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
No, it's pretty ugly regardless of whether they fix it now. And they will, I'm sure, since people will complain.

You can debate it all you want, but this sounds like Apple withheld a promised feature from one product in order to upsell its customers later. That's pretty ugly, in my book. Legal? Surely. A violation of business ethics? Nah. But ugly, something that I don't like, that reminds me my face looks suspiciously like Benjamin Franklin'$? Yeah.



A pretty safe doubt. If I did, I wouldn't have bought my AEBS(n).

What if the wireless Time Machine corruption problems in Leopard are the reason the device is delayed until February? Did you notice the part where the device isn't released until February? Can you think of any other reason why it would be delayed past the keynote?

ricosuave
Jan 15, 2008, 08:29 PM
Which came first?

a) Airport Express TM disabled on purpose or
b) Time Capsule to address the issue

They better fix this "glitch" to make things right.

I remember using an external attached to the usb of my extreme for Leo during the betas to test Time Machine. I even used a folder inside an Windoze XP machine on the network for it. Both of which worked without any issues.

MrCrowbar
Jan 15, 2008, 08:32 PM
Color me unimpressed.

1TB is not enough to provide adequate time machine space for the 2 macs in my house.

Embedding a disk drive, with its high failure rates, in a router means you will be replacing the router every time the disk fails.

Disks are heat sensitive, and airport extreme routers are HOT inside.

Finally, all I need is a disk with a network interface, everyone on the planet already has a router or wap.

i believe these are server grade drives that are more reliable and less prone to heat.

ibwb
Jan 15, 2008, 08:35 PM
Which came first?

a) Airport Express TM disabled on purpose or
b) Time Capsule to address the issue

They better fix this "glitch" to make things right.

I remember using an external attached to the usb of my extreme for Leo during the betas to test Time Machine. I even used a folder inside an Windoze XP machine on the network for it. Both of which worked without any issues.

My point is that Time Capsule has NOT been released, so we don't have any idea whether the Leopard feature will be re-enabled before or after Time Capsule. Which makes it pointless to complain now... at least wait until Feb.

I certainly believe that you had no issues, but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Backup integrity is a serious concern.

ariel
Jan 15, 2008, 08:41 PM
Can anyone point me to information helping me understand what the usage of disk space is with time machine? I have a 500gb imac and 2 250gb kids machines in the house... will a 500gb time capsule do or must i buy the 1TB one?

dan3L
Jan 15, 2008, 08:43 PM
what does NAS mean that everyone is referring to?

Also, does anyone know if this thing will be able to store my media (movies, music etc) and stream it to my MPB? If I could remove all of my movies and photographs and keep it on this, and then access them when I need, I'm buying one.

Most importantly though, will I be able to stream movies off of it? On to my MPB or an :apple:TV in the future?

NAS is "network attached storage". Generally it connects to your router by ethernet and allows you to share media or backup multiple machines to 1 drive.
According to Apple's web site, Time capsule works with Apple TV. This opens up a lot of mass storage media serving. I may have to get one.

ricosuave
Jan 15, 2008, 08:51 PM
My point is that Time Capsule has NOT been released, so we don't have any idea whether the Leopard feature will be re-enabled before or after Time Capsule. Which makes it pointless to complain now... at least wait until Feb.

I certainly believe that you had no issues, but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Backup integrity is a serious concern.

Ok, since TC has not been released yet you won this argument. But we will meet again!

ricosuave
Jan 15, 2008, 08:58 PM
Can anyone point me to information helping me understand what the usage of disk space is with time machine? I have a 500gb imac and 2 250gb kids machines in the house... will a 500gb time capsule do or must i buy the 1TB one?

I have 500gigs in my Leo backed up to a 500gig Time Machine drive. I have about 100+ gigs of free room in my Leo drive.

TM continues to back up until full then deletes the older backups. With this set up I have about 3+ weeks of history in my back ups.

You would have to determine your needs but a 500gig TC for you and your 2 kids would probably not be enough.

ariel
Jan 15, 2008, 09:04 PM
I have 500gigs in my Leo backed up to a 500gig Time Machine drive. I have about 100+ gigs of free room in my Leo drive.

TM continues to back up until full then deletes the older backups. With this set up I have about 3+ weeks of history in my back ups.

You would have to determine your needs but a 500gig TC for you and your 2 kids would probably not be enough.


Thanks - that helps. I realize from reading some stuff that Aperture Libs aren't really compatible with Time Machine and my main iMac has a 150 gb Aperture Lib so i'll keep backing that up monthly and removing it off site. I guess there's a possibility that a 500gb TC might work, but i suspect that you're right and i should go after the larger one to be safe.

I'm thinking of putting it in the basement well away from my other computers just in case someone decides to ransack the house, odds are they won't find it down there and my data would be safe (plus i'm keeping the monthly backup off site).

ricosuave
Jan 15, 2008, 09:12 PM
Thanks - that helps. I realize from reading some stuff that Aperture Libs aren't really compatible with Time Machine and my main iMac has a 150 gb Aperture Lib so i'll keep backing that up monthly and removing it off site. I guess there's a possibility that a 500gb TC might work, but i suspect that you're right and i should go after the larger one to be safe.

I'm thinking of putting it in the basement well away from my other computers just in case someone decides to ransack the house, odds are they won't find it down there and my data would be safe (plus i'm keeping the monthly backup off site).

Keeping data safe in case of theft is a big concern of mine as well. I am leaning towards this (http://www.drobo.com) product however. I just hope that Apple fixes the TM network "glitch" before I get an external.

diamond.g
Jan 15, 2008, 09:15 PM
I remember using an external attached to the usb of my extreme for Leo during the betas to test Time Machine. I even used a folder inside an Windoze XP machine on the network for it. Both of which worked without any issues.

I thought I would finally get to utilize the server sitting in my basement for backups. Sadly it isn't a Leopard system (Windows 2k3) so I guess I am going to be out of luck.

macidiot
Jan 15, 2008, 09:21 PM
This looks like the best product Apple announced at Macworld.

Digitalclips
Jan 15, 2008, 09:24 PM
yeah...as I read between the two products, I thought, wait, this is airport extreme with a hard drive. Why couldn't they just update the firmware in airport extreme? Sucks for people who already bought one.

It is obvious that this is the reason wireless hd backup never worked. They were coming out with time capsule from the very beginning.

I am hoping they will fix this ASAP. I also have an new AE with a 500 GB USB2 drive attached I bought especially and should be able to do anything Time Capsule can do! As you say it does not work at present from a laptop Mac (all .11n too!). Perhaps there is a Leopard software update that will be coming to allow Time Capsule to function and it will also enable the Existing AEs.

vrabz
Jan 15, 2008, 09:28 PM
Not exactly...Apple themselves listed this as a feature for Leopard, then yanked it. I find it ironic that one of the touted features of the macbook air is the "environmental" features, including less packaging, etc, yet they expect all of us with AE(n)'s to throw them away for the latest/greatest to facilitate SOFTWARE compatibility???. I'm sick to my stomach with this whole deal. That's a used-car salesman tactic, sorry Steve, not going to buy it, and am going to be waaay more skeptical about future hardware purchases from apple in the future as a result of this and the weird ipod touch software thing.

Thus, while I sympathize with you to some extent, you also need to realize that you made a decision based on rumors and pre-release information before all of the features were finalized. It was a gamble you took that unfortunately did not pay off for you.[/QUOTE]

mrkraemer
Jan 15, 2008, 10:17 PM
If indeed Time Capsule is Apple's solution to the problem of connecting an external HDD via USB to the AEBS, then that is a bit low - sly, but low. However, it should also be pointed out that many people who bought the AEBS and an external USB HDD made an assumption which you also state:



Thus, while I sympathize with you to some extent, you also need to realize that you made a decision based on rumors and pre-release information before all of the features were finalized. It was a gamble you took that unfortunately did not pay off for you.

Actually, I should explain a little further about what influenced my prior purchases... the employees at my local Apple Store. I spent a lot of time there questioning these "experts" who not only sold me the AEBS but highly recommended the external drive that I purchased. Both employees, during separate visits, ensured me that these hardware choices would be perfect for time machine backup via wireless connectivity... the external hard drive was purchased well after Leopard's release/install, based on the advice of these Apple employees stating that the update to Leopard would be available shortly and it would in fact work. So not so much a "gamble" that I took based on "rumors" and "pre-release" information but based mostly on "straight from the horses mouth" sources and information posted directly on the Apple website as well as the desire to be able to get the most out of Leopard (especially the back up function, time machine offers). I guess I'll just have to do it wired! What I have learned: Apple should not allow it's retail employees to discuss products, that have not been released, with customers unless they have been trained and well educated about the upcoming releases. Why shouldn't I have believed every word they told me... after all I drive a considerable distance to the Apple store for the sole purpose of speaking to the "experts." It would be a lot more convenient to go to Best Buy or Comp USA for Apple products. On Dec 29, while purchasing an iPod, I overheard an Apple store employee telling another customer to wait until Jan 15 to buy the iPhone because the 2nd gen. phone would be released then. Guess this employee was a bit misinformed... or even more likely is one of the overzealous Apple employees that think they know it all, much like the ones that got me to purchase the AEBS and external drive. Again, you live and learn.

basset hound
Jan 15, 2008, 10:25 PM
I just bought an Airport Extreme this month. Fortunately, according to the Apple:apple: CS rep I chatted with today on the computer, I can return it for a full refund and buy the new Time Capsule. :D

shadowfax
Jan 15, 2008, 10:38 PM
Steve's RDF did nothing for me on this one. He said, "Time Machine doesn't work very well for our laptop users who have to plug in to get a time machine backup." I got excited, thinking that they were going to modify time machine so that it could store fine-grain backups on the same hard drive and migrate those backups to the backup drive when it's online. And then he pulls this BS. Nobody cares about a stupid router with a hard drive stuck in it that, once it fails, is irreplaceable and dead. I want a router that can hook up 6 hard drives on a powered hub, one that I can change the hard drive out on once it's full, etc.

I want the Base Station I bought to work as advertised. That would be a much better solution than "Time Capsule." A solution that doesn't involve me shelling out ANOTHER $300 for a feature that should have been in the product I paid almost $200 for.

Bad, bad move, Apple. Fix it. Soon.

aross99
Jan 15, 2008, 10:43 PM
What I don't understand, is why Apple didn't see this issue coming? Did they really think that people who bought AEBS wouldn't notice this?

I'm assuming that they have to get the AirPort Disk to work (even w/o time machine), since they are still advertising that on their site. Is it working for anyone who didn't downgrade to the old firmware?

I don't how they can see this device when the AirPort Disk doesn't work as advertised (again ignoring the Time Machine angle).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they have an update when this device comes out...

shadowfax
Jan 15, 2008, 11:13 PM
My point is that Time Capsule has NOT been released, so we don't have any idea whether the Leopard feature will be re-enabled before or after Time Capsule. Which makes it pointless to complain now... at least wait until Feb.

At least waiting 'til February will be OK as long as, in February, Apple will let me buy Time Capsule for $141 (I bought with Edu pricing, I am a grad student) + the AEBS I have now, that's 3 weeks old exactly. That will be a terrible waste of perfectly fine electronics, as others have mentioned, but in my opinion necessary to fix this issue.

I still expect it to be resolved by a Leopard update and maybe also a base station update, but if that doesn't happen by then, they had really better take this thing back.

yanks4sure
Jan 16, 2008, 12:11 AM
Will I be able to use an AirPort Extreme Base Station with an External hard drive (either hard drive disc or solid state drive) for Time Machine Back Ups??

If not is it possible I will be able to with with 10.5.2?

If not is it possible there will be a fix for this that someone will wirte?
Can you point me in the direction of one such download?

Is it safe to do this or could this result in a problem?

Also does anyone know a good cheap SSD (32 GB, or pref. 64 GB)

Please Help! Thanks,
Yanks4Sure

P.S. I bought it on black Friday... Any chance I will be able to return it? I bought it for Time Machine Back Ups beause Apple advertised it this way!

TPALTony
Jan 16, 2008, 12:26 AM
You misunderstand. I'm saying my AEBS with USB drive is slow, but Time Capsule would presumably be faster since a large reason for the poor performance with AEBS + USB external is the USB factor.

I've always been curious as to just what OS is running on the AEBS. There are known issues with data corruption on USB drives (certain chipsets only) and Leopard, and I wonder if the AEBS is running a stripped down version of Leopard. After all, you can do EVERYTHING AEBS can do with the correct configuration of a dual NIC machine running OS X server... :)

If it is Leopard inside, and this USB issue is still hanging around, that would explain why it isn't supported yet. It would also explain why it's a none issue with the time capsule, since that's almost certainly a SATA disk...

Check out this link http://alblue.blogspot.com/2007/12/mac-data-loss-on-leopard-usb-drives.html for more information on the USB issue. This guy has been talking directly to apple support about the issue. The scary thing is.... if you are using HFS then you won't even know the data is corrupt...

be well

t

TPALTony
Jan 16, 2008, 12:28 AM
Also does anyone know a good cheap SSD (32 GB, or pref. 64 GB)


Unfortunately, the words "cheap" and "SSD" are only used in the same sentence if the word "not" is also used!

hansen
Jan 16, 2008, 12:48 AM
I was really hoping for user-replaceable hard drives so I could send a full drive somewhere else for safe-keeping and just add a new one myself.

Doesn't look like that's the way it's made, though. Oh well, still an awesome product! I gotta make sure my parent's and my grandmother get one...if they lose all their photos they'll be asking ME to restore them and right now I won't be able to help them!

In the comparison sheet it says there are usb ports for external drive on the time capsule, so it should be possible to replace that at least - don't know about the internal drive though

Attonine
Jan 16, 2008, 12:59 AM
I like the isea of this. However, I would like to know whether an external drive attached by USB could be used to expand the capacity of the device? 1TB is not that much for Time Machine really, especially if you include a media library (movies, TV Shows etc).

Is this where the ZFS research comes in? Add an external drive and the capsule has the facility to simply add this capacity to its internal drive?

ekdor
Jan 16, 2008, 12:59 AM
-

Dukkehus
Jan 16, 2008, 02:02 AM
Once again, over ehre in the UK we're having to pay almost twice as much as the US.

UK Price: £199 ($393)

I top that! In Denmark a 500 Mb Time Capsule is : 2299 DKR (457 $)

sweet :)

lazyrighteye
Jan 16, 2008, 02:06 AM
I picked up an AEBS on Dec. 28 at my local Apple Store.
Been shopping USB drives to use with my AEBS + Time Machine.
Started reading lots of issues with that config - even hearing similar anguish form friends.
Then Stevenote.
Time Capsule.
Crap.

So I called my local Apple Store about my refund options.
Get this - even tho I missed my 14-day refund window, by 5 days, they are happily (and it was honestly as simple as asking) refunding my money (tomorrow). No questions asked. Was really odd... tho I appreciate the option.

So now my question to you, faithful macrumors contributors: preorder a Time Capsule or keep the AEBS and hope for a firmware update?

jacg
Jan 16, 2008, 02:17 AM
Time Capsule is connected to a router which is connected to the internet, yes? Two questions:

1. Can I access TM remotely, maybe not for a big backup, but perhaps to get a lost file?

2. Is there any way a hacker could do the same thing?

(Sorry if these points have been addressed in the pages I didn't read through)

Tyrannosaurs
Jan 16, 2008, 03:47 AM
I picked up an AEBS on Dec. 28 at my local So now my question to you, faithful macrumors contributors: preorder a Time Capsule or keep the AEBS and hope for a firmware update?
you are kidding right?

so, i bought an AEBS based on functionality touted in an Apple pre-release announcement.

if it turns out they've shafted me on that, what on earth makes you think i'm going to automatically stick my hand in my pocket to buy their replacement product, especially only based on another pre-release announcement?

i still have some faith that apple will sort this out in the next month or so, around the release of Time Capsule (essentially it's the same functionality so if Time Capsule is a couple of weeks away from availability it stands to reason that the final fix to the AEBS would be). if they don't though the last thing i'll be doing is queuing up to give them more of my cash.

how do i - the owner of an iPod touch and an AEBS - feel this morning? to quote the west wing, "like i got screwed with my pants on."

the iPod touch upgrade i'll grudgingly take (and indeed have already purchased), it does at least do something the touch was never touted to do when i bought it. the AEBS on the other hand is just about making good on their promises, or at least should be.

samh004
Jan 16, 2008, 04:18 AM
Everyone seems to be glazing over the fine print at the bottom.

Via http://web.archive.org/web/20070710043919/http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html

This is why many of us bought Airport Extreme Base Stations, and this is why many of us bought Leopard.

Rumors?? Are you kiddin me??:mad: That was on Apple site!!! They say its supported, and AirDisk is suppose to work. Call me cheap but I spent 170 for AEBS and 250 for HD and I expect it to work as advertised

Thanks for proving my point with evidence. The cached page clearly reads: "All features referenced in the Mac OS X Leopard website are subject to change."

As Val-kyrie pointed out before me but I am going to reiterate, having just read the thread from start to finish, the original Apple page describing the feature had a disclaimer on it saying features were subject to change. A few things went missing after all, like the hologram iChat effect.

All features referenced in the Mac OS X Leopard website are subject to change.

Now whether or not Apple suddenly saw the potential to introduce Time Capsule then and changed the specification because of that we'll never know. But the fact remains that they saw there were issues in developer testing and they withdrew the feature as they were perfectly entitled to do because they knew it wasn't working properly.

You can whine and moan about it all you like, the feature was subject to change and did change.

Moving on, I would hope (because I am in much the same boat as many of you here) that Apple will release a firmware update for existing AEBS(n) owners that addresses some of the issues. They don't need to go so far as to implement support for Time Machine as they need to fix read/write issues users are having. Fixing those issues will have the same effect, allowing you to use Time Machine properly.

In my case I did the Terminal Time Machine "hack" back in November and haven't had any problems with backing up, browsing my files and even restoring files since. Two computers in my house use that method and it's all smooth sailing so far, touch wood.

I greet this new release with some questions, of which most of you probably can't answer as the product isn't shipping yet, so no one knows. But I am going to outline them below anyway, some may be more like views.

Firstly, the storage being internal and probably SATA as oppose to external and through USB. I was told last night this would mean that the transfer rates should be faster as the USB bottleneck is gone. If anyone knows any better I'd love to know, but I do believe that would be true and I'm hoping transfer rates will be much faster than previously (however, note there are no bench marks on the site and Apple really likes giving them normally, so what's the reason behind their disappearance) ?

Still relating to data transfer, the device can operate as just a file server, without connecting you to the internet or joining another existing network if set up properly; so then wouldn't you think data transfer rates over ethernet should be really speedy ? If you think about it, assuming the bottleneck was USB, your going gigabit ethernet from your computer, into the device's gigabit port, and then to the SATA controller which is at 3.0GBps right ? Pretty speedy. I know that's not wireless, but wouldn't that then be one of the faster external drives on the market, as surely you don't need to use it wirelessly ? Think about it anyway.

I think that's all I've got actually, but if something more comes to me I'll be sure to post my views here. Feel free to point out any flaws in my reasoning for the above points. Remember, it's not released yet, so you don't know there wont be firmware updates for exiting AEBS(n)'s and until there are actual benchmarks, no one really knows if this is actually any better than what you can already get.

dalvin200
Jan 16, 2008, 04:35 AM
can you still connect a usb hub to the time capsule and then have a hard drive hang off the hub as well as printer etc...

just like on the AEBS?

Tyrannosaurs
Jan 16, 2008, 04:48 AM
can you still connect a usb hub to the time capsule and then have a hard drive hang off the hub as well as printer etc...

just like on the AEBS?

if you could then that would get round part of the issue with the built in hard drive. if it gets full you'd just archive off to an attached drive, store that somewhere else and keep using the built in drive for your back ups.

dalvin200
Jan 16, 2008, 04:52 AM
if you could then that would get round part of the issue with the built in hard drive. if it gets full you'd just archive off to an attached drive, store that somewhere else and keep using the built in drive for your back ups.

but i dont see why you couldn't? or why apple would not let you connect another HDD to the time capsule?

i mean.. they let you with the AEBS.. and touted that you can stream stuff from it..

my plan is to use the build in 500gb as backup and hang a 300gb drive which has music/films/photos for streaming..

is this not even possible?

samh004
Jan 16, 2008, 04:56 AM
can you still connect a usb hub to the time capsule and then have a hard drive hang off the hub as well as printer etc...

just like on the AEBS?

but i dont see why you couldn't? or why apple would not let you connect another HDD to the time capsule?

i mean.. they let you with the AEBS.. and touted that you can stream stuff from it..

my plan is to use the build in 500gb as backup and hang a 300gb drive which has music/films/photos for streaming..

is this not even possible?

You can, go here (http://www.apple.com/wifi/) and scroll down till you see "USB port" on the left. Both the AEBS and Time Capsule allow you to plug in printers and external storage devices to the USB port.

Tyrannosaurs
Jan 16, 2008, 04:57 AM
but i dont see why you couldn't? or why apple would not let you connect another HDD to the time capsule?

i mean.. they let you with the AEBS.. and touted that you can stream stuff from it..

my plan is to use the build in 500gb as backup and hang a 300gb drive which has music/films/photos for streaming..

is this not even possible?

it should be. it has a USB port on it and the image showing it says "USB port for printer or hard drive".

you'll need to wait for release to know 100% but it would seem very very unlikely that it wouldn't support a separate attached hard drive as well as the built in one.

incidentally, i wonder if the printer support is still as abismal as it is for the AEBS?

sunfast
Jan 16, 2008, 05:10 AM
Time Capsule looks very interesting. I'm all over it if....

*I can swap out the HDD if it dies out of warranty

*I can use some of it (say 300GB) for TM backup and the remainder as a wireless video & music drive with my iTunes library on it.

I guess I won't know the answer until people play with it once it ships but I wait with interest

samh004
Jan 16, 2008, 05:16 AM
Time Capsule looks very interesting. I'm all over it if....

*I can swap out the HDD if it dies out of warranty

You can open the current AEBS with a little bit of difficulty so I don't imagine it'll be super-hard, however it wont be a simple procedure either. Within a week of shipping someone will have it open.

*I can use some of it (say 300GB) for TM backup and the remainder as a wireless video & music drive with my iTunes library on it.

It says you can use it for sharing files on windows or mac, so you should be able to. As you should know, Time Machine backups don't hog all the space, they just create a folder and sparse image (dmg) that gradually gets bigger as time goes on.

Just remember that backing up your music and photos to the same drive your storing them on is absolutely pointless :p

sunfast
Jan 16, 2008, 07:11 AM
You can open the current AEBS with a little bit of difficulty so I don't imagine it'll be super-hard, however it wont be a simple procedure either. Within a week of shipping someone will have it open.



It says you can use it for sharing files on windows or mac, so you should be able to. As you should know, Time Machine backups don't hog all the space, they just create a folder and sparse image (dmg) that gradually gets bigger as time goes on.

Just remember that backing up your music and photos to the same drive your storing them on is absolutely pointless :p

Thanks for the info. Not worried if HDD replacement is tough as long as it's possible!

I get the idea of backing up on the same drive - not the intention! I'd back up my mac on it and the media wouldn't be backed up (as yet). I just wonder if you can restrict the max size of the TM backup on the capsule so plenty of spare space is left for an increasing media collection.

Devil's Refugee
Jan 16, 2008, 08:09 AM
I don't get it. It's not RAID, but a single drive (especially the 1Tb version) so backing up on a single drive is pointless.

soup4you2
Jan 16, 2008, 08:26 AM
Does this mean no AirDrive support (ie USB-attached drive + AEBS) for Time Machine?


defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

AidenShaw
Jan 16, 2008, 08:52 AM
Keeping data safe in case of theft is a big concern of mine as well. I am leaning towards this (http://www.drobo.com) product however. I just hope that Apple fixes the TM network "glitch" before I get an external.

Be sure to look at other items too (these for example (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010240124+4021&name=%24500+-+%24750)).

The 0 TB Drobo is $700 with NAS. For that price you can find quite a few other NAS systems with 1 TB of storage.

The Netgear ReadyNAS systems are also nice.


Just remember that backing up your music and photos to the same drive your storing them on is absolutely pointless :p

Not at all pointless.

A same drive backup will protect you from accidental deletions or overwriting ("Ooops, I opened the original copy of the photograph and changed it."). Restoring because of a human error is probably more common that restoring from a failed disk.

A same drive backup will protect from single block errors on the disk. These do happen occasionally, even on a good disk. (Open up the S.M.A.R.T. data on a drive, and look at "Reallocated_Sector_Ct" - it's often non-zero.)

samh004
Jan 16, 2008, 10:15 AM
I just wonder if you can restrict the max size of the TM backup on the capsule so plenty of spare space is left for an increasing media collection.

That'd be in Time Machine preferences and as far as I know it wont let you do that. The idea is it keeps going till you have no space left.

I don't get it. It's not RAID, but a single drive (especially the 1Tb version) so backing up on a single drive is pointless.

But it's convenient and that's what the consumer needs right now, educate them on more advanced backup techniques after they're comfortable with basic backups.

defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

That's the one I used :)

dalvin200
Jan 16, 2008, 10:50 AM
You can, go here (http://www.apple.com/wifi/) and scroll down till you see "USB port" on the left. Both the AEBS and Time Capsule allow you to plug in printers and external storage devices to the USB port.

it should be. it has a USB port on it and the image showing it says "USB port for printer or hard drive".

you'll need to wait for release to know 100% but it would seem very very unlikely that it wouldn't support a separate attached hard drive as well as the built in one.


Thanks for that guys.. bit of relief as i'd ordered it yesterday and then had an after thought.. lol..


incidentally, i wonder if the printer support is still as abismal as it is for the AEBS?

really? you mean it wont recognise your printer? or network printing just doesn't work?

MacVault
Jan 16, 2008, 11:36 AM
Question: Does Time Capsule have an rsync-like feature so so, for example, I could have one and my brother on the other side of the country could have one and I would give him access to backup his Time Capsule onto my Time Capsule via internet. Data would be encrypted by his password in transit AND on my Time Capsule.

This would be great! Disaster recovery for us "consumers".

ricosuave
Jan 16, 2008, 12:27 PM
I just wonder if you can restrict the max size of the TM backup on the capsule so plenty of spare space is left for an increasing media collection.

What you could do is create a read/write disk image in the capsule. Set it for a specific size for your needs. This way, TM can do its thing and your folder for media collection is untouched.

ricosuave
Jan 16, 2008, 12:33 PM
defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

I enter this command in the terminal? Have you had any issues with data corruption?

Someone on this thread said that with HFS you don't even know if the data is corrupted until you need it and it's not there. Or something like that.

Any issues?

ricosuave
Jan 16, 2008, 12:37 PM
Question: Does Time Capsule have an rsync-like feature so so, for example, I could have one and my brother on the other side of the country could have one and I would give him access to backup his Time Capsule onto my Time Capsule via internet. Data would be encrypted by his password in transit AND on my Time Capsule.

This would be great! Disaster recovery for us "consumers".


What is this rsync you speak of? My brother and I spoke about a feature like this. He and I are .mac members as well. Does it work like ftp or something? I was kinda hoping Leo would have a built in solution like that.

sailnavy
Jan 16, 2008, 12:57 PM
Thanks for that guys.. bit of relief as i'd ordered it yesterday and then had an after thought.. lol..



really? you mean it wont recognise your printer? or network printing just doesn't work?

My Gigabit AEBS just refused to maintain the connection to my printer. It'll work for a little while, then die. It does the same with drives. The previous AEBS hosted the printer, ok, but the new one... not so much.

MacVault
Jan 16, 2008, 01:19 PM
What is this rsync you speak of? My brother and I spoke about a feature like this. He and I are .mac members as well. Does it work like ftp or something? I was kinda hoping Leo would have a built in solution like that.

rsync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rsync)
Yea, this would be way cool. However, Apple would never give us such a feature because 1) They want to pressure us into using the abominable .mac, and 2) they are in bed with the shadow government who wants access to sift through all our data. :mad:

LMO
Jan 16, 2008, 01:34 PM
Firstly, the storage being internal and probably SATA as oppose to external and through USB. I was told last night this would mean that the transfer rates should be faster as the USB bottleneck is gone. If anyone knows any better I'd love to know, ...
What USB bottleneck? For NAS drives the bottleneck is the network for anything slower than gigabit ethernet:

USB 2.0 40MBps
802.11n 37.5MBps
Ethernet 100 9MBps
Ethernet 1000 125MBps

These are all theoretical speeds; for example, the best I've been able to do over Ethernet 100 to a NAS is about 6MBps.

Both USB and 802.11n are going to be quite a bit slower in practice, but USB is unlikely to be the limiting factor when it is the only device on the USB bus.

danny_w
Jan 16, 2008, 01:58 PM
What USB bottleneck? For NAS drives the bottleneck is the network for anything slower than gigabit ethernet:

USB 2.0 40MBps
802.11n 37.5MBps
Ethernet 100 9MBps
Ethernet 1000 125MBps

These are all theoretical speeds; for example, the best I've been able to do over Ethernet 100 to a NAS is about 6MBps.

Both USB and 802.11n are going to be quite a bit slower in practice, but USB is unlikely to be the limiting factor when it is the only device on the USB bus.
Also consider the effect of the slow processor in the AEBS. It takes a lot to convert NAS to block i/o; this is most likely the bottleneck in this situation. NAS devices seem to range from about 3MB/s up to perhaps 67MB/s average write speed (see the chart at http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_nas/Itemid,190/chart,12/ for an example); in most cases below the i/f speed the limiting factor is the cpu. From reports that I have seen the AEBS/Airdisk combo is in the 2-4MB/s range, well below any i/f limitations. Using a faster i/f does not help if the conversion speed is slower than the i/f speed.

georgeoommen
Jan 16, 2008, 01:59 PM
Personally I think this is the star of the show, a wireless base station with a 1tb network drive that will stream to Apple TV. Marvellous....

And it also does back ups apparently.

:D

i don't think this will stream any media to an Apple TV.

Time Capsule works flawlessly with Apple TV, iPhone, iPod touch, and all your other Wi-Fi devices that use the 802.11a/b/g and 802.11n draft 2.0 wireless standards.

What they mean by this is that the ATV will be able to join the wireless network created by a Time Capsule. Otherwise, I wonder what exactly it is that an iphone and an ipod touch can so flawlessly do with an external hdd??

Time Machine makes a top-level directory (folder), and then a subdirectory per each mac using it ie:

/Backups.backupdb/system_name1
/Backups.backupdb/system_name2
etc.

So it doesn't partition the drive, I would guess you would be able to add your own folders, ie /MyIHateAppleFolder, /WheresMyNewMacbookProAir, etc :D

that would have been great, if not for the fact that TM backups keeps bloating with the passage of time. So unless I can create a partition and restrict the amount of space that TM is going to occupy then this effectively becomes a 1TB TM device..

georgeoommen
Jan 16, 2008, 02:08 PM
That's the one I used :)

From your experience does this technique work well? I'm about to try this myself. does browsing back in time work as smoothly as you would expect or atleast with an acceptable amount of lag? Are you able to recover data from it without any problems?

Also, don't know if you've tried this, but at a later time if i unplug the USB drive from the AEBS and hook it up straight to the computer, does TM recognize it as being part of the previous backup and just append to it or will it start backing up from scratch all over again?

Thanks in advance for your answers...