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Likvid
Oct 14, 2003, 04:22 AM
I came over this letter from a guy on another forum.

Is OSX so bad as he says it is? he says it's designed for stupid people and that's why they still use one-button mouse also.

I don't want to buy a product designed to ease for stupid people, then i can stick to my PC.Read on and comment please...

<snip>

Well, neither the AP Extreme in the Mac nor the any of the centrino goodies in the IBM will work for you under Linux. The APx card will probably never be supported and you'll have to wait for closed-source driverd from Intel for the Centrino.

I bought a 12" PB for my fiancee and while a nicely designed piece of kit it is, I hate using it. OSX is the single most unstable, ureliable piece of **** OS I have used since Windows 98. I simply can't fathom what crap OS9 must have been for Mac fanboys to be so excited about OS X. How anyone could take BSD UNIX and make it suck is beyond me. Sure it's lickable and fun and all that, but it was designed with stupid people in mind: Make all the day-to-day stuff mind-numbingly easy, but when you want to do something remotley complicated like add an smb printer it's like you're running FreeBSD - editing cupsd.conf from the terminal becaus the entire /etc directory is hidden in the Finder. OS X is like having all the drawbacks of Windows combined with all the drawbacks of Mac OS Classic... At double the price.

Not to mention the actual hardware. It's Aluminium people... it's not a strong metal. It scratches, dents, bends, etc. within weeks of buying it. My faincee carries her's in a $60 padded Tumi laptop sleve inside a messanger bag, and it still has dents and scratches. And what the **** is with a one-button mouse. Unix has always used 3 buttons, in Xfree you "emulate3buttons" when you have two, what the **** am I supposed to do with just one? Oh yeah, did I mention it's slow? Considering the eye-candy present in the OS, you'd think that they'd back it up with hardware, but nope, no such luck. Just moving your mouse along the dock pegs the CPU at 100% let alone trying that with some software running. I'd say the 867 MHz PB 12" running OS X is on par with a P3 600 runningLinux with a full DE like KDE or Gnome - at about 5x the price.

<snip>

passthejonch
Oct 14, 2003, 04:32 AM
there will always be people who love it and there will always be those who hate it

and no, it's not that bad

caveman_uk
Oct 14, 2003, 04:57 AM
The guy is a Linux user. I used to be one as well. The mouse thing has been doen to death. If you have a powerbook. NOONE MAKES YOU BUY AN APPLE MOUSE!!!! Buy a three button mouse from logitech or whoever it will work. Jesus, how many more times...

Anyway. As I said I have used KDE on Linux and let me tell you it ain't all that. There is a speed penalty for all the OS X nicities on top of Unix but in my opinion it's worth it. In this guys opinion it isn't it's a simple as that. The hardware is perfectly fine for the job.

I don't know where he gets the unreliablility thing. In my experience XP, OS X and Linux are all pretty much similar in terms of OS reliability. There are people here who will claim it never crashes - it does. I've had 3 kernal panics in a year. For the record I've found Windows XP to be quite stable unless you mess about with it and install all sorts of dodgy crap on it.

The guy is opbviously a hardcore Linux zealot and it should be read as that. I read some of the stuff on here with a huge pile of salt at hand as it's equally biased. I only know my own experiences and having used Windows 98, 2000, XP, FreeBSD and several Linux flavours I've found a home in Mac OS X and have found it to combine ease of use and power remarkably well. Sure there ARE still some rough edges but there gradually getting smoothed out.

You can only decide what's best for you and don't let stupid opinionated people from any camp sway you.

robbieduncan
Oct 14, 2003, 04:58 AM
You can add SMB printers exactly where you'd exepct. In the Print Center! Using a GUI. Or you can connect to the CUPS web GUI on your machine using a web browser. What an idiot!

edesignuk
Oct 14, 2003, 05:07 AM
Complete and utter BS! I don't even know where to begin tearing this appart.

And BTW, I'm not a "mac fan boy" :rolleyes: This just is total crap!

aethier
Oct 14, 2003, 05:24 AM
yeah, this guy reminds me of an artical my friend sent me that was rather funny, it was a Linux user who used windows for a week, and was bitching about alll the things that are actually usefull. he also neglected to say how in windows, you dont have to compile twenty-million things just to get the most simple crappy app to work... but anyways, they are just dumb, and think they are smart cause they use Linux, the OS for geeks, that are two poor to buy their own software.

aethier

Likvid
Oct 14, 2003, 06:19 AM
Actually i didn't beleive this guy was saying about OSX crashing more than Windows 98, that was totally bull.

Windows 98 is the worst OS i ever used in my life.

So i cant understand where this guy got this from.....

However i must admit that one-button mouse is stupid, Steve wake up!

Why insisting with this stupid thing?

And what about the scratching of the surface? is that true?

ewinemiller
Oct 14, 2003, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
The guy is a Linux user. I used to be one as well. The mouse thing has been doen to death. If you have a powerbook. NOONE MAKES YOU BUY AN APPLE MOUSE!!!! Buy a three button mouse from logitech or whoever it will work. Jesus, how many more times...

He's using a powerbook, so when he's sitting on an airplane he's supposed to plug that 3 button mouse in and put it on the guy next him's lap? On a desktop you have that option, first thing I do is throw it out and replace with an intellimouse, but with a laptop it's not that easy. It's one of the reasons I've stuck with PC for a laptop.

kwajo.com
Oct 14, 2003, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by ewinemiller
He's using a powerbook, so when he's sitting on an airplane he's supposed to plug that 3 button mouse in and put it on the guy next him's lap? On a desktop you have that option, first thing I do is throw it out and replace with an intellimouse, but with a laptop it's not that easy. It's one of the reasons I've stuck with PC for a laptop.


is it really THAT hard to press ctrl and click? i didn't think so. plus, check out a new trackpad driver on versiontracker. i forget the name but it lets you enable tap click and hardware scrolling, so you could use the extra click to replace the botton you so sorely need :rolleyes:

ewinemiller
Oct 14, 2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by kwajo.com
is it really THAT hard to press ctrl and click? i didn't think so. plus, check out a new trackpad driver on versiontracker. i forget the name but it lets you enable tap click and hardware scrolling, so you could use the extra click to replace the botton you so sorely need :rolleyes:

It's probably not that hard if Mac is all you do all day. Some of us move back and forth between platforms and though you know there is a difference as you switch platforms, your fingers go where they expect to and years of habits are hard to break. I have tried the single button thing. Plugged it in for about a week to see if it was something I could live without and it wasn't. This guy may have the same problem.

Ensoniq
Oct 14, 2003, 07:35 AM
Others have already hit upon the main point here...the guy writing the opinion is a major Linux geek (no offense to geeks, just stating a fact), so his opinion is shaded by that fact.

He's a command line sort of guy, obviously, and it's true that OS X is simply NOT a command-line oriented OS. You can get there, using Terminal, but the OS is not designed to make that a priority. Most of us consider that a positive, but he thinks it's a negative.

Before my first Mac, I was using PCs back in the MS-DOS days, and once you get used to doing things a certain way it's hard to change. Even today, when I need to delete a bunch of files or search for a file hiding on a Windows machine, I drop to a Command Prompt and use DELTREE and DIR FILENAME.DOC /S instead of using Windows Explorer or Windows seach routines.

Habits are hard to break, and sometimes doing something the HARD way that you've already memorized seems easier than using the GUI that is right in front of you. It doesn't make the guy a jerk for his opinion...but it does show he should chill out a little and explore more before deciding the machine and OS suck.

Sun Baked
Oct 14, 2003, 07:40 AM
Face it...

The Mac OS X experience was probably a shock to his system, it's different. Imagine a user friendly GUI on top of Unix, programs you don't have to compile/modify for your system, command line not required, etc.

But being different ain't bad, just takes some getting used to. Things almost take awhile to get used to.

There were a bunch of complaints about Mac OS 10.0, and occasional gripe sessions as people switch from OS 9 to OS X and can't find out how to do something.

Remember, this guy probably hyperventilates if his fork is on the wrong side of the plate. :rolleyes:

Tiauguinho
Oct 14, 2003, 07:54 AM
LOL! That is some major BS! Besides being a retard, he is completly stupid

Not to mention the actual hardware. It's Aluminium people... it's not a strong metal.


Is this a joke or is this guy from another planet? I wonder how my MTB is still in one piece, after trashing it Downhill a lot of times. What a moron...

Make all the day-to-day stuff mind-numbingly easy, but when you want to do something remotley complicated like add an smb printer

Oh man, I wont even comment that one!


Sure it's lickable and fun and all that, but it was designed with stupid people in mind

OMFG! From where does this "High IQ" guy comes from? Cause i consider that Mac OS X is a work of art on the "idiot proof" GUI, cause they made complicated tihngs easy to reach for all of us, either advanced users and new computer users. Stupid is who takes the long and complicated path to reach the same objective.

So, Likvid, IMHO, this guy is full of crap. Dont worry with OS X or the Apple build quality. Sure that we might get some problems with First revision products,but who doesnt?

I advise you to go and play with a new Mac, specially the new G5's. Try OS X on one of those and will you get the most pure mac user experience you could ever get!

cwedl
Oct 14, 2003, 08:20 AM
Its funny, only since I have been using my mac, (I only switched a few days ago) I find that I can do a lot more on my 12" powerbook than I could do on windows, 1 button mouse? I use a kensington Pocket mouse with 2 buttons, I don't like 1 button mice, purely because I am more productive with a 2 button mouse. People have their own preferences. All I see is a well built computer with I very good operating system that has not crashed on me! Its a fantastic bit of kit. If people bad mouth macs its because a. They have never tried one. b. They couldn't get on with one. c. they just like to start arguments.

tomf87
Oct 14, 2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Likvid
Actually i didn't beleive this guy was saying about OSX crashing more than Windows 98, that was totally bull.

Windows 98 is the worst OS i ever used in my life.
...

While I agree about OS X being more stable than Windows 9x, I have to disagree about Windows 98. I vote for Windows Me being the worst.

WinterMute
Oct 14, 2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Likvid

And what about the scratching of the surface? is that true?

Nope, I've been hauling my 17 around London since it was released, not a scratch or a dent on it, much better than the TiBooks, plus its an aluminium alloy, not pure aluminium.

I don't use a mouse at all, the trackpad is an excellent replacement, but as noted 2 and 3 button mice are avaliable.

The blokes an idiot ignore him.

LethalWolfe
Oct 14, 2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Likvid
Not to mention the actual hardware. It's Aluminium people... it's not a strong metal. It scratches, dents, bends, etc. within weeks of buying it.

I think this is my favorite line. I guess he'd rather passenger planes, baseball bats, and those really niftly collapsable batons be made out of the plastic Dell users for it's laptops. ;)


Lethal

Steradian
Oct 14, 2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Likvid
Windows 98 is the worst OS i ever used in my life.


Never used Win ME then? Lucky Bas****

patrick0brien
Oct 14, 2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Likvid
Actually i didn't beleive this guy was saying about OSX crashing more than Windows 98, that was totally bull.

Windows 98 is the worst OS i ever used in my life.

So i cant understand where this guy got this from.....

However i must admit that one-button mouse is stupid, Steve wake up!

Why insisting with this stupid thing?

And what about the scratching of the surface? is that true?

-Likvid

Sorry, I'm still trying to recompose myself after reading that - the was one of the funnier things I've read in a while.

Further support to the idea that there should be a article in the bill of rights that read "You have the right to be stupid enough to get yourself killed without taking out others who are smarter than you."

One button? Well, I like it only that it keeps the applications uniform - nobody's sweeping stuff under the contextual menu - even thought e ctrl-click does the same. Besides, if I really want a right click or scrool on my 12PB, I plug in my mouse. One my desktop, I already use a Logitech MX700.

Scratching the aluminum? Well, it would take quite an impact or blade to do it. This is aircraft grade aluminum (which isn't really aluminum) - which basically means it's alloyed with Magnesium and a few other elements, and anodised withing an inch of its life.

It will dent if hit hard enough, but a plastic case would crack with the same impact.

KentuckyApple
Oct 14, 2003, 09:49 AM
I use a WinXP machine at my computer job all day. It's really not that bad, and I will admit that there are some nice features. However, I have been a mac user for 10 years and I can't wait to get home and play on my G5 with X.2. I will argue with anyone that OS X is nicer to use, maybe not better, but nicer. As for me, I would never purchase a PC for my home.

switchingGeek
Oct 14, 2003, 09:55 AM
I just bought my first apple. 12" Powerbook, and I've never used a Mac before. I must say that OS X has so far been very stable. The only problems I've seen are a) The "more info" button on about your mac started crashing - fixed after a reboot.
b) I opened the same file in both Mplayer and Quicktime at the same time once, and after that Mplayer has been a bit flaky, making the whole system unusable. Please let me know if I can fix this.

I have found the Pbook much more sturdy than most Windows laptops that I've handled. And definitely not slow - my workstation is a 2200 Athlon XP with 1.5Gb RAM, and the laptop keeps up quite well.

I've been using Linux on my workstation exclusively for the past 3 yrs. Non-root though, and although I loved it, so far OS X has been better. My only complaint is that some of the interfaces seem too easy to be true, and I spend 10-15 mins to see if I've done everything needed. May be I'm just dumb :-)... and trying to things the hard way as in Windoze, or setting config files like in Linux.

The sw some one mentioned is SideTrack. It provided a) vertical and horizontal scrolling, b) cliking on the trackpad, c) enabling right click, either on the trackpad or the trackpad button. Once you get it, trust me, you will not turn it off!! Amazing piece of sw.

For some reason, top takes approx 5-10% of the CPU!! Is this a bug?

Overall, in the week I've had it I've found this laptop very satisfying... and I would definitely recommend it to most people.

Have fun!

Likvid
Oct 14, 2003, 10:01 AM
I've used WinME also and i must agree it's muc worse than Win98.

But i can stand behind Win2k and XP being pretty stable, they are stable and it works.

But the problem is that they are soooo boring to work with.

I run Linux on my notebook and dualboot XP when i want to do things i can't do with Linux.

But i get so tired of the quick and dirty mentality of the x86 community.

The only feasible notebook you can buy if you want to run Windows are the IBMs Thinkpads.

MacOSX runs on Unix, well Unix is the best, no argument here.

But the question about the one-button mouse still remains as a big clue.

Have anyone asked Steve Jobs why he thinks this is so good?

No one thinks this is good, you can't defend one-button mouse, it's silly.

patrick0brien
Oct 14, 2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by switchingGeek
For some reason, top takes approx 5-10% of the CPU!! Is this a bug?

-switchingGeek

Top taking 5-10%? That's a hmm. All my machines jump at all points between 0-4%.

Your crashing thing is interesting - is it a full-on kernel panic, OS X Crash - can't mistake this - or something else. Can you describe? 99% of crashes in OS X is the app, and not the OS.

Is there anything else you can give us - we'd like to help.

Likvid
Oct 14, 2003, 10:09 AM
I do alot of stock broking and would also like to know if there are any trading software for OSX?

Like Metastock and several other i know are for Windows only.

VIREBEL661
Oct 14, 2003, 10:18 AM
WOW! This guy is totally clueless, shamelessly spewing forth with BS.. I love Linux also, but nothing comes close to X IMHO! Maybe he was bitten by a Mac as a child?

Vector
Oct 14, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Likvid
I do alot of stock broking and would also like to know if there are any trading software for OSX?

Like Metastock and several other i know are for Windows only.

I do a good deal of daytrading using ameritrade (well datek, but ameritrade bought them). Their real-time quotes are given through a java based page that works very well. THe coontrol center, as they call it, has your portfolio, open orders, order entry, quotes, charts, market orders( all open market orders as shown by island and someone else), and several other features. I also trade some stock through banks, but i have found that it is much easier just using ameritrade. The java window sits there and updates real-time and can do everything that the windows proagrams that i have used can. I am not familiar with metastock but i used mytrack several years ago and ameritrades java page is far better.

I forgot to mention that all of the charts are real-time and have indicators like bollinger bands, so they are really useful if you trade intraday like i do.

The only major tracking software that i can think of is Investor RT by linn software. It is an incredibly nice app ofr both pc and mac, but its pricing is too much when i already get most of the same stuff for free.
Trial Package - $49
Quarter Lease - $195 - $245
Annual Lease - $595 - $795
Permanent License - $1495
Permanent License (End-of-Day) - $595
Supplemental Licenses - $195
http://www.linnsoft.com/investorrt/

lmalave
Oct 14, 2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by ewinemiller
He's using a powerbook, so when he's sitting on an airplane he's supposed to plug that 3 button mouse in and put it on the guy next him's lap? On a desktop you have that option, first thing I do is throw it out and replace with an intellimouse, but with a laptop it's not that easy. It's one of the reasons I've stuck with PC for a laptop.

You can get software called SideTrack where you can use a tap for left click and button click for right click or vice versa. Also supports horizontal and vertical scrolling. I actually like it more than having a separate right click mouse button below my trackpad. Anyways, install it and see if it works for you.

Oh wait, you don't have an Apple Laptop. Oh well, maybe you can try the software on one of your friends' computers.

bousozoku
Oct 14, 2003, 10:59 AM
I remember these kinds of people in chat rooms in the mid-1990s. They were so angry at Microsoft for taking away their DOS. "Stupid people use a mouse." "GUIs are for idiots." "It takes longer to do anything."

So, it looks to me as he made his transition from DOS to Linux because he couldn't handle variety. He probably never really uses GUI there either.

If he finds there are more crashes in Mac OS X than in Windows 98, it's probably because he's "customised" Mac OS X to be more like Linux.

It's true that the one button mouse is a pain. I usually have another trackball in the cart when I buy a new machine.

As far as the system being slow, there are times. The bit about running the mouse along the dock (with the magnifier on) is true. It's sucks up CPU resources. I don't care for cutesy things anyway, so I have them turned off. For sheer speed, I think the G5s are competitive and the PowerBooks give effective power vs. battery life and weight.

switchingGeek
Oct 14, 2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-switchingGeek

Top taking 5-10%? Your crashing thing is interesting - Can you describe?

Is there anything else you can give us - we'd like to help.

You can see how low my expectations of a PC are ;-)...

Right now top is running at a const 10%, nothing else is running on the system. After using a Linux PC for so long, this was quite surprising to me.

The Mplayer bug is as follows.
I opened up the same file in both QTime and Mplayer, by mistake. This lead to both the apps not responding, and I used the 'force quit' to kill them. The funny thing was that I tried to kill them from the terminal, but was unable to do so. I tried sudo, and it said unable to find, and it did not recognise my passwd. So at that point there was nothing else I could do on the CLI.

Once QTime and Mplayer quit, I opened up Mplayer alone. As soon as I clicked on the movie, the mouse turned into the 'at work' red ball. After this I was unable to open any other application, even though I 'force quit' mplayer. I would have called it an Mplayer bug if it had not caused the rest of my applications and sudo to stop working.. very wierd behaviour.. but not too wierd coming in from Windows :-)...

I'm using a 12"Pbook 256MB Ram, Mplayer version v 2.0b5, got the laptop only a two weeks ago. Loving it :-) All my friends are drooling over it.. No one else I know has a mac yet...

Powerbook G5
Oct 14, 2003, 11:32 AM
That's too funny. After a month at college, my PowerBook still has no dents, scratches, or marks at all. How is it a weak metal? Aircrafts use it, cars use it in their frames, some of the strongest structures are made with aluminum because of its stiff and light-weight nature.

As far as instability, never once had a kernal panic or anything quit or freeze on me...and yes, Win ME is the worst OS...it crashed 3 times when we first started our Gateway that we had gotten that very day without so much as doing a single thing besides turning it on and letting it boot into Windows for the first time...

If you don't like one mouse button, then get a multi-button mouse, it's that simple...

As far as it being too "easy" and all, what kind of "stupid person" would intentionally want to use a complex OS that makes it a chore to do something as simple as installing a program? I'm in college, I do not have time to mess with the OS when I have 4 papers due, an exam coming up, and 3 projects to focus on. I need to be productive, and Mac OS X allows me to do so efficiently...along with being sexy and fun to use.

Besides, anyone who goes around calling people stupid for no good reason shows their true intelligence, it's just that simple.

patrick0brien
Oct 14, 2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by switchingGeek
Right now top is running at a const 10%, nothing else is running on the system. After using a Linux PC for so long, this was quite surprising to me.

-switchingGeek

Surprising to me too. But I'm afraid I don't know how to lower this besides just not running it. :D


Once QTime and Mplayer quit, I opened up Mplayer alone. As soon as I clicked on the movie, the mouse turned into the 'at work' red ball.

Sounds like a bug in mPlayer. It's not giving the RAM or access rights back to the Finder, and the Finder is BeachBall-ing you while it yells "GIMME!" to the selfish mPlayer.

billyboy
Oct 14, 2003, 01:05 PM
Been working on a university network and it seems to have been set up really well compared to when I last used it a couple of years ago. Undoubtedly its Linux based, so fair play to Linux for that. But I dont think Ill go out and buy Linux, because Im not geeky enough to make it work, and if I ended up like matey bollocks at the top of the page Id end up slitting my wrists before someone else slit my throat. Hes just a silly angry boy, and I bet his gf is really chuffed to hear him slag off her present continually

wms121
Oct 14, 2003, 01:43 PM
if the $100k workstation people say OSX is the best...then wwe got this thing whooped...

hey big Steve...get McNeally's home computer and see if you can run an AIX5L install on it..

Anyone out there "talking to OSX" and not "mousing it"?

<---tell me when 64 bit 'something' shows up

Kid Red
Oct 14, 2003, 01:52 PM
Yes, OS X as well as the Aluminum PB sucks ass as this guys says.

Well, that's what you wanted to hear right? Why else post such a stupid question linking to an idiot anti-mac bashing moron? This is either a stupid question or flame bait.

caveman_uk
Oct 14, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by switchingGeek
You can see how low my expectations of a PC are ;-)...

Right now top is running at a const 10%, nothing else is running on the system. After using a Linux PC for so long, this was quite surprising to me.

The Mplayer bug is as follows.
I opened up the same file in both QTime and Mplayer, by mistake. This lead to both the apps not responding, and I used the 'force quit' to kill them. The funny thing was that I tried to kill them from the terminal, but was unable to do so. I tried sudo, and it said unable to find, and it did not recognise my passwd. So at that point there was nothing else I could do on the CLI.

Once QTime and Mplayer quit, I opened up Mplayer alone. As soon as I clicked on the movie, the mouse turned into the 'at work' red ball. After this I was unable to open any other application, even though I 'force quit' mplayer. I would have called it an Mplayer bug if it had not caused the rest of my applications and sudo to stop working.. very wierd behaviour.. but not too wierd coming in from Windows :-)...

I'm using a 12"Pbook 256MB Ram, Mplayer version v 2.0b5, got the laptop only a two weeks ago. Loving it :-) All my friends are drooling over it.. No one else I know has a mac yet...
I've just checked top on my dual 1Ghz G4 powermac is at 4% and on my 800Mhz ibook it's using about 7%.

For the mplayer have you tried going to terminal and deleting/moving ~/.mplayer? Maybe it's screwed it's prefs or something?

caveman_uk
Oct 14, 2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red
Yes, OS X as well as the Aluminum PB sucks ass as this guys says.

Well, that's what you wanted to hear right? Why else post such a stupid question linking to an idiot anti-mac bashing moron? This is either a stupid question or flame bait. Maybe, but give him a break. It seems like a genuine question...

bousozoku
Oct 14, 2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by wms121
if the $100k workstation people say OSX is the best...then wwe got this thing whooped...

hey big Steve...get McNeally's home computer and see if you can run an AIX5L install on it..

Anyone out there "talking to OSX" and not "mousing it"?

<---tell me when 64 bit 'something' shows up

I seriously doubt that Scott McNealy has an IBM machine at home. That what AIX requires, unless you consider the original x86 release, which ran on 80386 machines and I doubt he has one of those either.

As far as $100k workstation people, would that be executives, developers, or 3D/cinema professionals? UNIX developers prefer PowerBooks and Mac OS X (not OSX) because the last UNIX laptop was nearly $10,000. I've forgotten whether it was SGI, IBM, or Sun but that's a bit expensive, esp. when people think the PowerBook series is expensive.

I've found a home with Mac OS X because it does all those things I've come to enjoy with UNIX shells and programming, but I can use the mouse to change layouts visually, quickly.

szark
Oct 14, 2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku
UNIX developers prefer PowerBooks and Mac OS X (not OSX) because the last UNIX laptop was nearly $10,000. I've forgotten whether it was SGI, IBM, or Sun but that's a bit expensive, esp. when people think the PowerBook series is expensive.

Actually, Tadpole (http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/products/mobile/) has SPARC-based notebooks starting around $3000 (with a 3-hour listed battery life).

switchingGeek
Oct 14, 2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
I've just checked top on my dual 1Ghz G4 powermac is at 4% and on my 800Mhz ibook it's using about 7%.

For the mplayer have you tried going to terminal and deleting/moving ~/.mplayer? Maybe it's screwed it's prefs or something?

Well, I tried top with a slower update, and it drops to about 4%. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have only 256MB RAM? I'll be getting 512MB more, I'll check again after that.

Yeah, MPlayer is beta, but I'd still expect the OS to kick it out cleanly, when the app misbehaves. ESPECIALLY since it's UNIX :-)... I checked ~/.mplayer, but the config files were empty, as I hadn't fiddled with any of the settings. Right now MPlayer is working correctly...

Thanks for your hints!!

BTW, I had a stuck red pixel, and it went away on it's own!! Some one else suggested massaging it to get rid of it...
you can find the instructions on http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=533092#post533092

Sorry I couldn't find out how to link to the post itself.

Have fun!!

bousozoku
Oct 14, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by switchingGeek
Well, I tried top with a slower update, and it drops to about 4%. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have only 256MB RAM? I'll be getting 512MB more, I'll check again after that.

Yeah, MPlayer is beta, but I'd still expect the OS to kick it out cleanly, when the app misbehaves. ESPECIALLY since it's UNIX :-)... I checked ~/.mplayer, but the config files were empty, as I hadn't fiddled with any of the settings. Right now MPlayer is working correctly...

Thanks for your hints!!

BTW, I had a stuck red pixel, and it went away on it's own!! Some one else suggested massaging it to get rid of it...
you can find the instructions on http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=533092#post533092

Sorry I couldn't find out how to link to the post itself.

Have fun!!

You should have at least 512MB to run things decently. You're probably so deep in virtual memory that you're thrashing the HD.

Don't bet that the operating system is always going to be safe, even when it's UNIX. It's more stable than Windows and Linux, but it's definitely possible to crash it with a bad application gaining access that it shouldn't have.

patrick0brien
Oct 15, 2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
It's more stable than Windows and Linux, but it's definitely possible to crash it with a bad application gaining access that it shouldn't have.

-Likvid

Especially in root where there are no execution gatekeepers.

It's possible this fellow was operating in root to show off.

switchingGeek
Oct 15, 2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Likvid

Especially in root where there are no execution gatekeepers.

It's possible this fellow was operating in root to show off.

Hello,

I'd like to think I'm not that dumb, please correct me if I'm wrong, if I want to operate as a root user, wouldn't I have to enable that? or is the first user automatically root? If so, why do I have to keep typing sudo, or my password?

I have set it at "allow this user to admin", I hope that's not the same as running as root.

Please let me know if I'm doing anything wrong, and more importantly how I can change it to the correct setting.

Have fun!!

patrick0brien
Oct 15, 2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by switchingGeek
I'd like to think I'm not that dumb, please correct me if I'm wrong, if I want to operate as a root user, wouldn't I have to enable that? or is the first user automatically root? If so, why do I have to keep typing sudo, or my password?

-switchingGeek

You're not dumb :D

Apple makes it inconvenient to activate and then access Root because it can be very dangerous, and no, it's not an admin (origin) user. Just try renaming the 'System' folder.

To activate root, launch NetInfo Manager in your Applications/Utilities folder.

Security Menu

Enable Root user

Assign the password.

Apple menu, or cmd-shift-Q to logout.

Login with the UID 'root, and the password you just assigned.

Watch your ass. You are now so godlike as root, the computer won't even second-guess you. If you throw 'System' in the trash, and empty it, it will happily oblige - intil it HAL9000's on you ( Dave, I don't feel so good...).

Powerbook G5
Oct 15, 2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by switchingGeek
Hello,

I'd like to think I'm not that dumb, please correct me if I'm wrong, if I want to operate as a root user, wouldn't I have to enable that? or is the first user automatically root? If so, why do I have to keep typing sudo, or my password?

I have set it at "allow this user to admin", I hope that's not the same as running as root.

Please let me know if I'm doing anything wrong, and more importantly how I can change it to the correct setting.

Have fun!!

No, the first user in not root, in fact, you must go out of the way just to enable root as a log in ID. In order to do so through the GUI, you must go to Applications>Utilities>NetInfo>Security>Authenticate>type in password>Enable Root user>create password for Root>log out>log in with "root" as user name and your password.

patrick0brien
Oct 15, 2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
No, the first user in not root, in fact, you must go out of the way just to enable root as a log in ID. In order to do so through the GUI, you must go to Applications>Utilities>NetInfo>Security>Authenticate>type in password>Enable Root user>create password for Root>log out>log in with "root" as user name and your password.

-Powerbook G5

Haaa! Beetcha!

Powerbook G5
Oct 15, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Powerbook G5

Haaa! Beetcha!

By a minute! Just wait, I shall seek my revenge, mwahaha!

shadowfax
Oct 15, 2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
Watch your ass. You are now so godlike as root, the computer won't even second-guess you. If you throw 'System' in the trash, and empty it, it will happily oblige - intil it HAL9000's on you ( Dave, I don't feel so good...). did you ever read that thread about how i deleted /system from the terminal with sudo? i typed it in and hit enter thinking that it would ask for my password (which i wouldn't have given it, but i didn't realize i had already given it a password for the session. yeah... that was kinda dumb. oddly enough, it actually booted up fine, but the dock and finder didn't load, of course. lol!

Powerbook G5
Oct 15, 2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by shadowfax
did you ever read that thread about how i deleted /system from the terminal with sudo? i typed it in and hit enter thinking that it would ask for my password (which i wouldn't have given it, but i didn't realize i had already given it a password for the session. yeah... that was kinda dumb. oddly enough, it actually booted up fine, but the dock and finder didn't load, of course. lol!

And this is a wonderful demonstration of why Apple does not enable root by default. :D

patrick0brien
Oct 15, 2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
And this is a wonderful demonstration of why Apple does not enable root by default. :D

-Powerbook G5

And why I personally do not do any root operations in the CLI - no visual reinforcement to my actions: "Am I about the screw the pooch?"

shadowfax
Oct 15, 2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
And this is a wonderful demonstration of why Apple does not enable root by default. :D of course, i didn't have root enabled either, though granted, i was using root privileges via the terminal session...

shadowfax
Oct 15, 2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Powerbook G5

And why I personally do not do any root operations in the CLI - no visual reinforcement to my actions: "Am I about the screw the pooch?" i have no problem with using sudo--you have to to run the maintenance on the system... /etc/daily, monthly, weekly

Powerbook G5
Oct 15, 2003, 01:10 PM
You can also do those scripts via GUI with OnyX, Mac Janitor, and many other freeware/shareware programs from Version Tracker for anyone who may not be comfortable with sudo via the Terminal.

shadowfax
Oct 15, 2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
You can also do those scripts via GUI with OnyX, Mac Janitor, and many other freeware/shareware programs from Version Tracker for anyone who may not be comfortable with sudo via the Terminal. yeah, but it's much more fun to make your own script and run it from the terminal :)

Jagga
Oct 15, 2003, 03:06 PM
Jeez.

likvid you mentioned However i must admit that one-button mouse is stupid, Steve wake up!Why insisting with this stupid thing? . Now I'm not picking on you but since it is mentioned so much from here to kingdom come I gotta say something about it.

roughly 15 years ago most users that were on a computer of no doubt loved the power of the command line. Since then most users are not programmers; back then there were more proportionately to end-users. Nowadays most of use use computers on a daily basis, and thus most be efficient due to workload or deadlines; so keyboard shortcuts are paramount for efficiency instead of the mouse. Remember in 1984 hardly any computer had a mouse, so shortcuts were important then to, but to end users, the mouse was a godsend. The mouse, obviously still is today, but I find myself, as a poweruser, inhibited by it so I rely mostly on shortcuts within using office products (word/excel/outlook--MS on PC). This brings me to my next point.

Ewinemiller, you mentioned that you had problems with shortcuts on the Mac compared to what you habitually used on PC. I had the same troubles in the first 4 days on the Mac - during the 3 months I had one -but quickly adjusted. You gotta stick to it. Once you do you might find it much more powerful than using MS OS on a PC.

Of lately, there is an increasing amount of programmers/coders on all platforms; which I guess is the reason for Apple's OS switch to Darwin underpinnings. Its hidden and rightfully so, because a poweruser like me - with no coding experience - will poke around thinking their king and end up royally F*&%$#g up their Mac.

Opinions vary and that's the beauty of the world, but try things out yourself - and you'll benefit from the experience.:D