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MacRumors
Jan 21, 2008, 11:48 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Some screenshots of the new features found in the Mac OS X 10.5.2 seed have been detailed by BabyGotMac.com (http://babygotmac.com/a/leopard-1052-update-adds-dvd-sharing-better-stacks-translucent-menu-bar-and-remote-backup/). Amongst the new features:

- Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences:


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/01/22/001233-trans.png

- DVD/CD sharing preferences, allowing you to share your optical drive with the upcoming MacBook Air.
- List view in Stacks as previously mentioned (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/20/apple-adds-list-view-to-stacks-in-leopard-10-5-2/):


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/12/20/stackslistview1_300.jpg

- One screenshot claims that network drives are now enabled with Time Machine. This is not an accurate statement, however, as Time Machine does have limited network drive capabilities in Mac OS X 10.5.1. Time Machine specifically does not allow Airport Extreme network drives, and as far as is known, this situation has not changed in 10.5.2.
- Meanwhile, we've received word that Apple has included a new Time Machine menubar pulldown that gives you the status of TimeMachine and allows you to initiate a backup, open preferences and see the time of the last backup

MacScoop provides (http://macscoop.com/articles/2008/01/20/mac-os-x-10-5-2-update-bring-endless-list-fixes) an itemized list of all the fixes and changes in the 10.5.2 seed as described in the seed notes, however, Apple does not detail every change.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/21/mac-os-x-10-5-2-optional-translucent-menubar-dvd-cd-sharing/)



Mindflux
Jan 21, 2008, 11:50 PM
- One screenshot claims that network drives are now enabled with Time Machine. This is not an accurate statement, however, as Time Machine does have limited network drive capabilities in Mac OS X 10.5.1. Time Machine specifically does not allow Airport Extreme network drives, and as far as is known, this situation has not changed in 10.5.2.





This is ludicrous. They disabled it right before Leopard shipped, yes you can do a hack (heck I posted it here)... but suddenly it'll work with a Time Capsule?

blah

eXan
Jan 21, 2008, 11:51 PM
Good news for hose who can't stand the transparent menu bar ;)

Harpo
Jan 21, 2008, 11:52 PM
- Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences

But we can never bring back roundies. :(

Rocketman
Jan 21, 2008, 11:53 PM
A seemingly short time from now all devices and resources will be accessable via wireless and even remote IP methods.

CPU's, drives, printers, discs, refrigerators, light switches, phones, and even cars.

The time is neigh.

Remember which ego-maniac brought it to reality, not Bill, but Steve. RDF indeed.

Rocketman

Mykbibby
Jan 21, 2008, 11:53 PM
That's awesome... thanks Apple!

a1016neo
Jan 21, 2008, 11:54 PM
"Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences"

Yes!!! Thanks Apple. Can't wait for update

Eidorian
Jan 21, 2008, 11:57 PM
10.5.2 is looking like the best Mac OS X update in ages. I hope it's better then 10.4.4.

p0intblank
Jan 21, 2008, 11:57 PM
Translucent Menubar is now optional? Thank you! :) It's good to know Apple is listening to user feedback.

DMann
Jan 21, 2008, 11:57 PM
Good news for hose who can't stand the transparent menu bar ;)

It's nice to have a choice..... looks like a great update so far...

fekimoki
Jan 21, 2008, 11:58 PM
Looking forward to it! Optional translucent is a relief to me.

Aranince
Jan 22, 2008, 12:02 AM
:O Oh please oh please oh please..network backup!!!!

ThunderLounge
Jan 22, 2008, 12:05 AM
Guess we'll know within a week or two.

Since the MBA is shipping, and needs certain features of 10.5.2, guess it isn't rocket science to guess when we'll see it.

gwangung
Jan 22, 2008, 12:08 AM
List view in stacks? Great.

Optional translucent menu bar? Surprisingly, not that awaited from me...It's been less annoying than I thought...

canucks-17
Jan 22, 2008, 12:08 AM
You would think that they would enable network backup because of Time Capsule and all.

Victor ch
Jan 22, 2008, 12:08 AM
Translucent menu-bar disable option:eek::eek::eek: FINALLY, now I can have my green background without it looking weird when all in the screen is not so vivid and the menu-bar is shiny and not cool looking to me.

-Victor

silverboy31
Jan 22, 2008, 12:09 AM
The latest build that i just d/l from the ADC 9C16 the transparent option has been taken out so don't get your hopes up people... that screenshot is from build 9C7

avalys
Jan 22, 2008, 12:11 AM
The "translucent menu bar" option should really be in Appearance settings, not Desktop settings.

chr1s60
Jan 22, 2008, 12:12 AM
I liked the option for translucent menubar. When they first showed off Leopard, I was a fan of the translucent menubar, but after using leopard for a few months I am tired of it.

iMacZealot
Jan 22, 2008, 12:18 AM
They must've done the translucent menu bar not just for aesthetics but so you'd get less burn-ins, but it seems as thought since I've installed Leopard from the first weekend that by the time I shut down everyday now, my temporary burn-in shows up....It's shown up more since Leopard, in other words.

AppleMojo
Jan 22, 2008, 12:19 AM
This is ludicrous. They disabled it right before Leopard shipped, yes you can do a hack (heck I posted it here)... but suddenly it'll work with a Time Capsule?

blah

I love how people think Apple just does things to piss people off, or for no good reason.

Even if it was related to a marketing concept that they wanted to fully realize with a new product line... So be it.

ilflyya
Jan 22, 2008, 12:20 AM
The only thing I wanna know is this update going to actually allow adobe CS3 to work properly? I know there are a lot of people riding on such an update. Adobe's website claims it will, but is there any word? I could care less about translucent anything.

cthorp
Jan 22, 2008, 12:20 AM
I miss my snappy white menu bar! Thanks Apple. Now just bring back that stock :-)

Yankees 4 Life
Jan 22, 2008, 12:20 AM
The latest build that i just d/l from the ADC 9C16 the transparent option has been taken out so don't get your hopes up people... that screenshot is from build 9C7

:( that would suck. I liked the old bar from tiger

samh004
Jan 22, 2008, 12:21 AM
Good news for hose who can't stand the transparent menu bar ;)

Thankfully we wont need to hear of it any longer (as long as it's still an option), and I still don't see what the problem is :p Steve jobs probably didn't like the solid colour and decided that if he didn't like it, no one should have it

I liked the option for translucent menubar. When they first showed off Leopard, I was a fan of the translucent menubar, but after using leopard for a few months I am tired of it.

I think it blends in with the background really nicely, which is what they were going for I believe. So the only focus would be on the window your using, not anything else.

RogueLdr
Jan 22, 2008, 12:21 AM
- List view in Stacks as previously mentioned:

I think this is a good option that takes into account the Mac OS' longer-term users.

When I hear how Stacks is received by my Windows-using family on 'wow' factor alone, I can see why Stacks was implemented; out of the box Windows doesn't have anything like it as a taskbar option and it sure looks pretty.

List view is much more usable, however.

MacFly123
Jan 22, 2008, 12:22 AM
New scroll bars anyone??? :) Lol... Well at least we know Safari will be snappier :p

aLoC
Jan 22, 2008, 12:22 AM
Ah cool... I was poking around in /System/Library/CoreServices/Menu Extras the other day looking for a Time Machine indicator. It's good to know one is coming, I will surely be using it.

MarlboroLite
Jan 22, 2008, 12:29 AM
The whining on the translucent menu bar is ludicrous....I wouldn't even characterize it as 'translucent'....it's more like a tiny background blur. There is absolutely zero obstruction in clarity due to the effect, I can perfectly see what the menu says. Good for the people who get a solid menu bar option, but to claim that the effect makes reading the menus hard is totally ridiculous.

aLoC
Jan 22, 2008, 12:29 AM
I must confess I will be changing the menu bar back to white. If for no other reason than the white menu bar is an iconic Mac thing. Like the smiley faced computer.

sboots
Jan 22, 2008, 12:31 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

Could not agree more. I'm kind of surprised that I care about it this much. They just made my whole screen so much nicer.

Rest in peace, rounded menubar corners... you will be missed.

iMacZealot
Jan 22, 2008, 12:33 AM
The whining on the translucent menu bar is ludicrous....I wouldn't even characterize it as 'translucent'....it's more like a tiny background blur. There is absolutely zero obstruction in clarity due to the effect, I can perfectly see what the menu says. Good for the people who get a solid menu bar option, but to claim that the effect makes reading the menus hard is totally ridiculous.

It really depends on your selected backdrop and how intricate it is....if it is, then it certainly can be somewhat difficult to read.

It's also a matter of personal preference. Don't yell at us and call us "ludicrous" just for having a different opinion than yours.

BWhaler
Jan 22, 2008, 12:34 AM
This is great news.

I must give Apple credit for not being pig-headed about their OS and making changes based on what the market feedback is.

For me, I hope there are tons and tons of bug fixes. Leopard really is a buggy mess, so I hope tons of things get fixed and we finally have an Apple quality OS.

The one thing that has been suspiciously quiet is Spaces. Spaces is one of the worst implementations I have ever seen come out of Apple. I really hope the quirky behavior such as stealing control is fixed. Spaces is like something out of Redmond on its worst day.

But to end on a positive note, I look forward to 10.5.2. I really liked Leopard until I starting using it heavily and the bugs and quirks showed their ugly heads. With 10.5.2, my hope is the love affair will return.

grappler
Jan 22, 2008, 12:41 AM
Please, please, time machine on airdisks before the weekend.

I'm flying to florida to set my grandma up with her first computer. I'm setting her up with a mac with an airport extreme and an external drive.

If they make this work before then, I can set her up with easy wireless backup. Otherwise, I can't.

Kaptajn Haddock
Jan 22, 2008, 12:45 AM
Good news for hose who can't stand the transparent menu bar ;)

indeed, and also good news that Apple are actually listening to users complaints. Wish they did the same for the dock, and made it an option to disable the 3D effect.

Yankees 4 Life
Jan 22, 2008, 12:53 AM
Please, please, time machine on airdisks before the weekend.

I'm flying to florida to set my grandma up with her first computer. I'm setting her up with a mac with an airport extreme and an external drive.

If they make this work before then, I can set her up with easy wireless backup. Otherwise, I can't.

i really dont think that option is going to happen bro

lyzrd
Jan 22, 2008, 12:56 AM
indeed, and also good news that Apple are actually listening to users complaints. Wish they did the same for the dock, and made it an option to disable the 3D effect.


but in the picture to this article isn't the standard leopard dock either? (or am I wrong). looks like the dock that you have put on the left or right side on your screen, but just in 3d.

Am I the only one who loves that look?

woss
Jan 22, 2008, 12:57 AM
hope you guys like your opaque menubars in dark gray.

balahir
Jan 22, 2008, 01:00 AM
Apart from all other fixes, I hope they have spell checked the localized versions as well. In one place in Finder Preferences of the Swedish version of 10.5.1, it says (translated) "Hard Dis" instead of "Hard Disk"....

In another thread, I posted a question regarding Finder not remembering the position of the scroll bars. If you have scrolled down in a window, open a folder and then go back, you will find yourself scrolled back to the top of that window. Anybody knows if this has been fixed?

morphineseason
Jan 22, 2008, 01:15 AM
Am I the only one that noticed the 3D simple-styled Dock? Is that also a new option in 10.5.2? I know you can change to a simplified Dock with a Terminal command (already did it), but that Dock is neither the default nor the one I switched to.

Edit: nevermind Lyzrd noticed it too. Anyone know what the scoop is on it though?

sk3pt1c
Jan 22, 2008, 01:16 AM
I stopped using Spaces (after having tried for a long time to find a use for it)
instantly right after CS3 crashed on me when i switched to its space, so that indeed needs a fix.
also, my dvd drive is locked to region 1 after installing Leopard and it won't swap to region 2 (i'm in greece) no matter what, i get an error message...
i'm sure this has happened to others, but i don't see a fix for it in the update, sadly... :(
i guess i'll have to rip the dvds i want to watch, store them on my hard drive and then open them from there with DVDPlayer... sucky! :mad:

Doctor Q
Jan 22, 2008, 01:20 AM
- DVD/CD sharing preferences, allowing you to share your optical drive with the upcoming MacBook Air.Can you share your optical drive with any Leopard-based Mac, or with only a MacBook Air?

I asked an Apple rep this question last week. He said he hadn't thought about it and didn't know the answer.

BollywooD
Jan 22, 2008, 01:24 AM
also, my dvd drive is locked to region 1 after installing Leopard and it won't swap to region 2 (i'm in greece) no matter what, i get an error message...

you could always flash your drive to be region free: (forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=43082) and then use RegionX (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13801) to change at will!

sebastianlewis
Jan 22, 2008, 01:26 AM
A seemingly short time from now all devices and resources will be accessable via wireless and even remote IP methods.

CPU's, drives, printers, discs, refrigerators, light switches, phones, and even cars.

The time is neigh.

Remember which ego-maniac brought it to reality, not Bill, but Steve. RDF indeed.

Rocketman

I LOVE predictions of the future, however I have to say your prediction is blatantly wrong! Some things (drives, HDDs, phones [well more like pocket computers]) it makes sense in, others however, don't even need to touch a network. Read up on Bonjour a bit, it's a bit closer to what you want.

I liked the option for translucent menubar. When they first showed off Leopard, I was a fan of the translucent menubar, but after using leopard for a few months I am tired of it.

You know, the white menu bar became depressing so I looked forward to the Leopard one, then that became distracting, then I ignored it, but the white one is still depressing, so now I'm thinking Apple might want to take it in another direction...

Menu bar styles. Instead of just translucent menu bars, we'll have options for striped, pink, and polka dotted menu bars too! Menu bars will become like wallpaper and screen savers and you can change it on a whim!

Sebastian

Peace
Jan 22, 2008, 01:27 AM
Can you share your optical drive with any Leopard-based Mac, or with only a MacBook Air?

I asked an Apple rep this question last week. He said he hadn't thought about it and didn't know the answer.

I'm guessing since they say that option is there on whatever Mac they're using it would be the same on any Mac.

Just a wild guess mind you :)

BabyGotMac
Jan 22, 2008, 01:28 AM
The latest build that i just d/l from the ADC 9C16 the transparent option has been taken out so don't get your hopes up people... that screenshot is from build 9C7

Incorrect. I've added a screenshot showing the build with that feature visible. Also added one of the TM menubar.

byeehaaw
Jan 22, 2008, 01:31 AM
so when does it come out?

rezatayebi
Jan 22, 2008, 01:44 AM
Translucent menu bar is a mess. Also Mail is really buggy and when I send an email to myself I can`t see it in mail application. I have to go to gmail.com using safari :mad: .

lostfan916
Jan 22, 2008, 01:47 AM
Am I the only one that noticed the 3D simple-styled Dock? Is that also a new option in 10.5.2? I know you can change to a simplified Dock with a Terminal command (already did it), but that Dock is neither the default nor the one I switched to.

Edit: nevermind Lyzrd noticed it too. Anyone know what the scoop is on it though?
It's just a dock theme someone made. Just google Leopard Docks, and you can find it. ;)

Looking forward to this. I haven't had much problems, but that's probably because I got Leo fresh outta the box. If there's one thing I need afixin' it would be Safari. Crashes about 3 times a week. And I get a lot of "Safari can;t find server" errors, which are quite annoying. Oh, and Spaces, that's buggy. But other than that, I can't complain. Bring on 10.5.2:D

philgilder
Jan 22, 2008, 01:50 AM
but in the picture to this article isn't the standard leopard dock either? (or am I wrong). looks like the dock that you have put on the left or right side on your screen, but just in 3d.

Am I the only one who loves that look?&
Am I the only one that noticed the 3D simple-styled Dock? Is that also a new option in 10.5.2? I know you can change to a simplified Dock with a Terminal command (already did it), but that Dock is neither the default nor the one I switched to.

Edit: nevermind Lyzrd noticed it too. Anyone know what the scoop is on it though?
these images arent released by apple, just a tester of 10.5.2 so (s)he could have customised their dock and made it look like that

so when does it come out?
as another user said, the dvd/cd drive sharing is required for the macbook air, so i guess on or before that's released which is in a weeks time

alFR
Jan 22, 2008, 01:51 AM
The time is neigh.

I've just laughed myself horse. :)

See what I did there? Did you?

Kaptajn Haddock
Jan 22, 2008, 01:52 AM
I noticed this little bugfix in 10.5.2:

- Fixed issue with Text Input Sources

Could this have somthing to do with the first key not always registered on MacBook Pros?

See here for further info:

http://www.petergabriel.dk/mbp.html

JFreak
Jan 22, 2008, 01:55 AM
you could always flash your drive to be region free: (forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=43082) and then use RegionX (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13801) to change at will!

Anyone tested this procedure on Leopard? The readme only mentions Panther and Tiger.

silverboy31
Jan 22, 2008, 01:56 AM
"Incorrect. I've added a screenshot showing the build with that feature visible. Also added one of the TM menubar" i have the TM bar but the option for the menu bar is gone on my system, I am running 9c16 do you think maybe it was in the in the different updates ie Combo installer or Delta installer?

BabyGotMac
Jan 22, 2008, 01:57 AM
I can't believe I forgot to test this...wow. I just attached my 250gb Passport to my Airport Express and yes, Virginia, TM can use it as a backup device. Added a screenshot on the page.

[edit]Attached here also, in case my site doesn't make it until morning...lots of traffic today.

thomas040
Jan 22, 2008, 01:58 AM
if someone (like me) that have enabled unsupported network drives, do the update... will time machine then seize to work and go back to disable unsupported network drives?

no one knows, except maybe some that have installed the beta-update and beforehand have done the hack

anyone?

cheunghy
Jan 22, 2008, 02:05 AM
Will there be a guided tour for such a significant update? :p

kajitox
Jan 22, 2008, 02:28 AM
I was personally waiting for a few more stacks improvements, like the things that have been circulating around the internet. :(

akac
Jan 22, 2008, 02:30 AM
This is ludicrous. They disabled it right before Leopard shipped, yes you can do a hack (heck I posted it here)... but suddenly it'll work with a Time Capsule?

blah

You would think that they would enable network backup because of Time Capsule and all.

I love how people think Apple just does things to piss people off, or for no good reason.

Even if it was related to a marketing concept that they wanted to fully realize with a new product line... So be it.

Its not a Mac OS X issue. Its an AE issue. Apple has to update the ROM of the AE, not issue an OS X fix. That's why Time Capsule works - it has an updated ROM.

So keep asking Apple for this feature (I know I am - though right now I'm simply using Leopard File Sharing on my G5 to serve my Firewire drives for TM to my MacBook Pros in the house), but don't expect it in an OS X update.

ziggyonice
Jan 22, 2008, 02:37 AM
I can't believe I forgot to test this...wow. I just attached my 250gb Passport to my Airport Express and yes... TM can use it as a backup device. Added a screenshot on the page..

Amazing! Absolutely amazing! I would have set this up months ago if I just would have realized I could have done this. And 10.5.2 is not required...

G-Force
Jan 22, 2008, 02:39 AM
What about the choppy graphics? I sure hope those will get fixed. Both my MacBook and my iMac have this problem in Leopard.

DrEasy
Jan 22, 2008, 02:44 AM
Do you know if this update will enable Time-machine on NFS-mounted network drives? If so, I'll upgrade my iMac to Leopard...

Avicdar
Jan 22, 2008, 02:50 AM
It doesn't seem to be listed at all that I can see, but does anyone know if any additional cameras have been added to Apples raw support as part of this release?

I would have expected if they were, it would be mentioned. Nikon and Sony users have been yelling about this for a while now (especially Sony, for the A700 which was released in September and we still can't use Aperture with its raw format).

sachxn
Jan 22, 2008, 02:59 AM
After macworld this is I think the only good thing that apple did with menus, that will help stocks to jump( as far as I think like this) otherwise that half-featured MBA is on the low side.

Sachin (http://apple-iphone.blogspot.com) Dhall (http://qtp.blogspot.com)

ziggyonice
Jan 22, 2008, 03:10 AM
I can't believe I forgot to test this...wow. I just attached my 250gb Passport to my Airport Express and yes, Virginia, TM can use it as a backup device. Added a screenshot on the page.


how is this possible?
screenshot #1 is apparently (http://babygotmac.com/a/leopard-1052-update-adds-dvd-sharing-better-stacks-translucent-menu-bar-and-remote-backup/) what can be done.
screenshot #2 is what it actually looks like.

my airport express does not allow me to access the "disks" preference.

johnnyjibbs
Jan 22, 2008, 03:11 AM
Ah, the inevitable complaint release. 10.5.1 was for the initial major bug fixes but, now that the dust has settled, Apple is free to work on the little things that people found annoying or even a step back from Tiger.

The new stacks implementation looks perfect - no change for people who love them but a welcome addition of old functionality back - for those of us who want hierarchical menus, etc. And it looks like we can turn it on or off on a folder-to-folder like basis.

I'm assuming the translucent menu bar option will only appear on Intel-based Macs? :D

deathshrub
Jan 22, 2008, 03:17 AM
Neat.

Hey mods, please don't delete my comment this time. Thanks! :)

Evangelion
Jan 22, 2008, 03:20 AM
Hopefully this update fixes Aperture and Software Update... I'm one of about zillion users who has problems with Aperture ever since upgrading to Leopard. Launching Aperture shows the splash-screen and then... nothing. In order to get it to work, I need to restart the computer (Windows anyone?). Same thing with Software Update. It starts OK, but then the progress-bar hangs and nothing happens. Again, restarting the machine fixes the issue, but it's annoying having to restart the machine in about 80% of the time you want to use Aperture and in about 100% of the time you want to use Software Update...

Not to mention all those various other glitches, like slow-ass restarting (I get the spinwheel for few minutes before it logs out and restart the machine), MBP that wakes from sleep randomly (which can be very annoying, since I then have no picture in the MBP's screen, whereas I do have picture in my external display. I need to go to System Preferences and run "Detect Displays" in order to wake the MBP's display), the occasional missing background-image in the login-screen, the occasional slow-ass login (both in getting to the desktop, and occasionally it takes long time to populate the menubar, while I get to stare the spinning beachball of death), the disappearing TimeMachine-drive, the changing permissions in TimeMachine-drive ("TimeMachine can't work because backup-volume is read only")....

dopeytree
Jan 22, 2008, 03:26 AM
Please, please, time machine on airdisks before the weekend.

I'm flying to florida to set my grandma up with her first computer. I'm setting her up with a mac with an airport extreme and an external drive.

If they make this work before then, I can set her up with easy wireless backup. Otherwise, I can't.

Surely you can just plug it into the usb on the computer and instead of the airport extreme just get a wireless router?

Wireless back up isn't going to be fast!

Analog Kid
Jan 22, 2008, 03:28 AM
All the little GUI enhancements are nice and all, but I'd prefer the deal with the under-the-hood issues first. If I have to force-relaunch Finder for another 3 months waiting for 10.5.3, I'll scream. Figuring out why the system just locks for a minute at a time would be another bonus.

A seemingly short time from now all devices and resources will be accessable via wireless and even remote IP methods.

CPU's, drives, printers, discs, refrigerators, light switches, phones, and even cars.
...
Rocketman
Great, as if I don't have enough car troubles without worrying about DDOS attacks... ;)
The whining on the translucent menu bar is ludicrous....I wouldn't even characterize it as 'translucent'....it's more like a tiny background blur. There is absolutely zero obstruction in clarity due to the effect, I can perfectly see what the menu says. Good for the people who get a solid menu bar option, but to claim that the effect makes reading the menus hard is totally ridiculous.
It all depends on what you have behind it. The menubar tries to automatically set its transparency based on what's behind it, but it can get muddled if you give it a complex background such as this:
maybe-that-transparency-is-not-such-a-good-idea (http://furbo.org/2007/06/28/maybe-that-transparency-is-not-such-a-good-idea/)

I finally set all my backgrounds to landscape shots with solid sky in the back and the menubar is tolerable-- but you shouldn't need to be that picky.
The one thing that has been suspiciously quiet is Spaces. Spaces is one of the worst implementations I have ever seen come out of Apple. I really hope the quirky behavior such as stealing control is fixed. Spaces is like something out of Redmond on its worst day.

I have to admit I don't like how focus shifts from space to space sometimes, but I'm not sure what a better way is to do that. The alternative would leave you hunting for your windows... One thing that would help is being able to differentiate the spaces better-- names, not numbers, and unique backgrounds from space to space that show up in the F8 overview.
Do you know if this update will enable Time-machine on NFS-mounted network drives? If so, I'll upgrade my iMac to Leopard...
I don't think it will ever work with anything other than HFS+, and maybe ZFS when the time comes. There are some key filesystem features required by TM but that NAS and NFS won't support.

bmk
Jan 22, 2008, 03:45 AM
The latest build that i just d/l from the ADC 9C16 the transparent option has been taken out so don't get your hopes up people... that screenshot is from build 9C7

You do realise that you have just broken your legally-binding non-disclosure agreement with Apple? As a member of ADC you are legally bound NOT to disclose details of forthcoming software/hardware and if you do you will most likely have your membership revoked.

jdavtz
Jan 22, 2008, 03:52 AM
how is this possible?
screenshot #1 is apparently (http://babygotmac.com/a/leopard-1052-update-adds-dvd-sharing-better-stacks-translucent-menu-bar-and-remote-backup/) what can be done.
screenshot #2 is what it actually looks like.

my airport express does not allow me to access the "disks" preference.


Look carefully at the screenshots; they are with different hardware. Not sure why the first one has been named airport_express, as it isn't an Airport Express (unless it has some serious hacks applied to change its picture and functionality).

An Airport Extreme Base Station let you plug a USB hard drive in the back.

The Airport Express only lets you plug a printer into its USB socket.

If 10.5.2 really allows Time Machine backups to AEBS-connected drives I'll be very happy; I'm kinda surprised it doesn't need a AEBS firmware update though (not that that would be impossible).

But what do you (ziggyonice) mean about 10.5.2 not being required?

MrCrowbar
Jan 22, 2008, 03:53 AM
I've done this to get the opaque menu bar. Works fine. Just copy and paster into Terminal. It will ask for an admin password and you need to reboot for it to take effect.

:::Solid White Menu Bar:::
sudo defaults write /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables' -dict 'CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE' 1
:::Grayish Menu Bar:::
sudo defaults write /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables' -dict 'CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE' 0
:::Translucent Menu Bar:::
sudo defaults delete /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables'

Use the "Grayish Menu Bar", this is what you want.

Mr Skills
Jan 22, 2008, 03:58 AM
Why does the screenshot have a picture of an Airport Extreme but say "Airport Express"?

koobcamuk
Jan 22, 2008, 04:01 AM
I love how people think Apple just does things to piss people off, or for no good reason.

Even if it was related to a marketing concept that they wanted to fully realize with a new product line... So be it.

Still makes them nazis. With every passing month, Apple seem to get more and more locked down and self indulgent.

Cloudane
Jan 22, 2008, 04:06 AM
Very cool :) I had no problem with the menubar, but it scratches a few itches with Stacks.

Totally unexpected that they'd fix so much stuff.

This should quieten down those who were bemoaning the UI changes in Leopard and reverting to Tiger etc. Though it seems some have already found new things to whine about :D

elppa
Jan 22, 2008, 04:08 AM
Hopefully this update fixes Aperture and Software Update... I'm one of about zillion users who has problems with Aperture ever since upgrading to Leopard. Launching Aperture shows the splash-screen and then... nothing.

I know this is all obvious but:

[1] Are you running the latest version of Aperture? (1.5.6)
[2] Have you tried binning the app and reinstalling?

Translucent menu bar is a mess. Also Mail is really buggy and when I send an email to myself I can`t see it in mail application. I have to go to gmail.com using safari :mad: .

This is most bizarre. The only reason I say is that I have never ever had a problem with this and can't see how it could be a Leopard problem (just tried it with 3 of my accounts and they all work!). You are aware you have to click "Send and Recieve" in order to check for new mail, and then it make take a short while before it comes through.

The only reason I say this is that I wouldn't hold out much hope for 10.5.2 “fixing” this, as I don't think anything is broken.

Full of Win
Jan 22, 2008, 04:11 AM
This is why the Apple > Microsoft, at least in terms of OS'es go. They are using feedback to QUICKLY update and improve their OS.

dazed
Jan 22, 2008, 04:18 AM
hopefully they fixed the metadata bug which crashes finder if you have files you changed in lightroom.

weg
Jan 22, 2008, 04:28 AM
Amongst the new features:

- Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences:
- DVD/CD sharing preferences, allowing you to share your optical drive with the upcoming MacBook Air.
- List view in Stacks as previously mentioned (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/20/apple-adds-list-view-to-stacks-in-leopard-10-5-2/):
- One screenshot claims that network drives are now enabled with Time Machine. This is not an accurate statement, however, as Time Machine does have limited network drive capabilities in Mac OS X 10.5.1. Time Machine specifically does not allow Airport Extreme network drives, and as far as is known, this situation has not changed in 10.5.2.
- Meanwhile, we've received word that Apple has included a new Time Machine menubar pulldown that gives you the status of TimeMachine and allows you to initiate a backup, open preferences and see the time of the last backup

MacScoop provides (http://macscoop.com/articles/2008/01/20/mac-os-x-10-5-2-update-bring-endless-list-fixes) an itemized list of all the fixes and changes in the 10.5.2 seed as described in the seed notes, however, Apple does not detail every change.


Since these are new features, isn't Apple supposed to charge something for this update (in accordance to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act), or does this just apply if it's convenient for Apple?

hh83917
Jan 22, 2008, 04:35 AM
Good.... now if they can just release it quickly that'll be great :rolleyes:

Evangelion
Jan 22, 2008, 04:59 AM
I know this is all obvious but:

[1] Are you running the latest version of Aperture? (1.5.6)

Yes

[2] Have you tried binning the app and reinstalling?

What would that do to my settings, libraries etc.? And to answer your question: no. I seem to have misplaced my Aperture install-disc, along with my serial-number when I moved houses :(. I guess I could find them _somewhere_ (they have not been thrown away or anything of the sort).

That said, the Apple Discussion Boards are full of people complaining about this problem. Many of them have tried re-installing and it didn't help.

BabyGotMac
Jan 22, 2008, 05:01 AM
Why does the screenshot have a picture of an Airport Extreme but say "Airport Express"?

I must have renamed it that out of habit at some point. You want me to change it back?
:)

sandman4sure
Jan 22, 2008, 05:15 AM
I must have renamed it that out of habit at some point. You want me to change it back?
:)

So this doesn't work with the airport express?

I already did find it strange, didn't know the airport express had external disc options..

bmb012
Jan 22, 2008, 05:23 AM
Since these are new features, isn't Apple supposed to charge something for this update (in accordance to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act), or does this just apply if it's convenient for Apple?

It depends on what accounting model Apple is using for the product (or something like that). It's why they don't need to charge for updating the Apple TV either.

philgilder
Jan 22, 2008, 05:25 AM
Since these are new features, isn't Apple supposed to charge something for this update (in accordance to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act), or does this just apply if it's convenient for Apple?

Amongst the new features:

- Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences:
- DVD/CD sharing preferences, allowing you to share your optical drive with the upcoming MacBook Air.
- List view in Stacks as previously mentioned
- One screenshot claims that network drives are now enabled with Time Machine. This is not an accurate statement, however, as Time Machine does have limited network drive capabilities in Mac OS X 10.5.1. Time Machine specifically does not allow Airport Extreme network drives, and as far as is known, this situation has not changed in 10.5.2.
- Meanwhile, we've received word that Apple has included a new Time Machine menubar pulldown that gives you the status of TimeMachine and allows you to initiate a backup, open preferences and see the time of the last backup

none of those are brand new features, simply additions to existing features of leopard
whereas for the ipod touch, mail, maps, notes etc were brand new features never seen before on the ipod touch

It depends on what accounting model Apple is using for the product (or something like that). It's why they don't need to charge for updating the Apple TV either
its because apple gets revenue the network monthly plan for the iphone, so they can add features without directly charging for them, however, apple do take a bit from at&t or o2 or whoever so they can give updates for 'free'

wordmunger
Jan 22, 2008, 05:29 AM
Will Time Machine finally back up my iDisk?

ReanimationLP
Jan 22, 2008, 05:35 AM
I love the Meatwad dock icon.

Is that included too? :D

ekdor
Jan 22, 2008, 05:39 AM
-

MacVault
Jan 22, 2008, 05:48 AM
So, is Apple going to charge us $20 for these "features" and blame it on the sarbanes oxley thing? Why would they have to do so with other products but not Mac OS X?

le sacre
Jan 22, 2008, 06:09 AM
I've done this to get the opaque menu bar. Works fine. Just copy and paster into Terminal. It will ask for an admin password and you need to reboot for it to take effect....

am i the only one who just did it the old-fashioned way? i opened up my desktop images in a trusty graphics editor, and pasted a black, menubar-sized rectangle at the top of them. i've been happy ever since. of course, there's still a slight gradient that gets superimposed, but it's subtle and nice as opposed to the bizarre-looking transparency (especially on my blue-skyimage).

le sacre
Jan 22, 2008, 06:19 AM
the list mentions some vague things like, "fixed issue with finder and column view." i hope that translates to the bugs i've been having.

first of all, i can't remember exactly how it's different from tiger, but in leopard i've been MUCH more annoyed at how windows "remember" their view preferences.... i drag onto a spring-loaded folder only to have it be in list view sorted by size with all the subfolders tabbed open, meaning i can't find anything in there. i don't remember having those frustrations in tiger.

secondly, it would be great if we could get back that other wonderful bit of tiger functionality, the controller bar for media files in column view preview! i miss this one terribly (though still not as much as dock list view).

thirdly, i get a bug with certain .avi files showing previews in column view that causes the finder to hang and require relaunch. not all .avi files, though, just certain ones, reliably.

i was disappointed not to see mention of organization in spotlight results windows. i get this issue all the time.... i do a search in the spotlight menu, and want to know the path of the "top hit" so i click "show all." suddenly, my "top hit" is completely buried and hard to find. the old organization, with files grouped by kind, was far superior.

aafuss1
Jan 22, 2008, 06:19 AM
I'll be very pleased when 10.5.2 comes out-as I can have my stacks in a list style view.

Takeo
Jan 22, 2008, 06:29 AM
I must confess I will be changing the menu bar back to white. If for no other reason than the white menu bar is an iconic Mac thing. Like the smiley faced computer.

Well... it won't be white... it will be opaque gray with a slight gradient.

AppleNewton
Jan 22, 2008, 06:34 AM
are they purposely disabling network storage for time machine so you have to purchase time capsule? geez. spent enough on a damn AEBS and putting my own external drive together fo rit i should be able to get its capabilities, hell even lesser -formed routers and OS can take advantage of that...what the hell...so much for "advancement" ... im betting it is purposeful and they know damn well what they are doing.

ugh!!!

:apple:

Wayfarer
Jan 22, 2008, 06:42 AM
I love the Meatwad dock icon.

Is that included too? :D

Probably not. It looks customized to me.

Nick012
Jan 22, 2008, 06:52 AM
I know this is all obvious but:

[1] Are you running the latest version of Aperture? (1.5.6)
[2] Have you tried binning the app and reinstalling?



This is most bizarre. The only reason I say is that I have never ever had a problem with this and can't see how it could be a Leopard problem (just tried it with 3 of my accounts and they all work!). You are aware you have to click "Send and Recieve" in order to check for new mail, and then it make take a short while before it comes through.

The only reason I say this is that I wouldn't hold out much hope for 10.5.2 “fixing” this, as I don't think anything is broken.

I have the same issue. Send myself an email and it never shows up in mail...

appie57
Jan 22, 2008, 06:54 AM
I hope they fixed the iDisk issue, where the idisk sparsebundle has erroneous size and the mac hangs on shut down. I can't get it fixed now.:(

gmanrique
Jan 22, 2008, 07:05 AM
They are saying a screenshot of 10.5.2 claims something but then labeled it as a not accurate statement since 10.5.1 does not support the feature shown in the screenshot. What? Am I missing something? :confused:

As far as is known, woudn't the screenshots be indication that it has changed in 10.5.2?


- One screenshot claims that network drives are now enabled with Time Machine. This is not an accurate statement, however, as Time Machine does have limited network drive capabilities in Mac OS X 10.5.1. Time Machine specifically does not allow Airport Extreme network drives, and as far as is known, this situation has not changed in 10.5.2.

QCassidy352
Jan 22, 2008, 07:20 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I killed the translucency of my menu bar months ago. :D

They really should allow drives attached to an airport extreme to be used by TM. Trying to upsell us to time capsule is sleazy.

List view for stacks should be nice. :)

sayagain
Jan 22, 2008, 07:32 AM
OH MY GOD! TUESDAY !! UPDATES !!

**APPLE STORE IS DOWN** :eek:


Maybe its MacBook AIr with 3G built-in??? :-)

sayagain
Jan 22, 2008, 07:36 AM
A Pink iPod :mad:

/yawn

msandersen
Jan 22, 2008, 07:37 AM
The time is neigh.
...to quote Mr. Ed.

Darkroom
Jan 22, 2008, 07:39 AM
i've always had a non-translucent menu bar because i use a solid color for my desktop image (medium grey to be precise)...

SheriffParker
Jan 22, 2008, 07:45 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

True, they are gone forever... but doesn't it just feel good knowing you're finally using all your pixels? :p

RedTomato
Jan 22, 2008, 07:49 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

That's one thing I really miss on my new MacBook. (These little rounded corners on each side of the top of the menu bar.)

Does anyone know of a hack or magic incantation in Terminal to bring them back?

kps
Jan 22, 2008, 07:52 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

RoundRects are everywhere moderately plentiful! (http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt)

krye
Jan 22, 2008, 07:54 AM
Hierarchical stacks, non-translucent menu bar options? Wow, looks like Apple is listening. That’s awesome. When was the last time M$ listened to its users?

edenwaith
Jan 22, 2008, 07:55 AM
If these rumors turn out to be correct, then 10.5.2 will likely be one of the most useful patch releases of Mac OS X ever! This goes far beyond the "fixed some security issues". There are some small, new features and preferences that will make Leopard even more enticing. I'm hoping that I can get rid of the Stacks in the Dock. I don't like the time that is wasted while the computer creates the Stack. Just give me the folder icon, I'll be fine!

thejadedmonkey
Jan 22, 2008, 07:56 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

Can too. Check this out (http://www.manytricks.com/displaperture/) :p

- Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences:


YAYAYAYAYAY!!!!:D:D

arjunm
Jan 22, 2008, 07:57 AM
I hope it fixes Time Machine's constant causing of Kernel Panics... it's so frustrating when the flagship feature doesn't even work!!!!

MaLt
Jan 22, 2008, 07:59 AM
Will we be able to set the menu bar to transparent too on a 12" Powerbook G4? since there is now an option for the translucent menu bar?

Baron58
Jan 22, 2008, 08:05 AM
when I send an email to myself I can`t see it in mail application. I have to go to gmail.com using safari :mad: .

That's a GMail thing. It has NOTHING to do with Mail.app.

gnasher729
Jan 22, 2008, 08:10 AM
I hope it fixes Time Machine's constant causing of Kernel Panics... it's so frustrating when the flagship feature doesn't even work!!!!

It works for me, and I haven't heard that claim before. 99% of all the time Kernel Panics are caused by defective hardware, like defective RAM or maybe a defective hard drive.

Sky Blue
Jan 22, 2008, 08:10 AM
I can't believe I forgot to test this...wow. I just attached my 250gb Passport to my Airport Express and yes, Virginia, TM can use it as a backup device. Added a screenshot on the page.

[edit]Attached here also, in case my site doesn't make it until morning...lots of traffic today.

Why is your Airport Extreme called Express? You can't connect drives to an Express.

AlphaAnt
Jan 22, 2008, 08:13 AM
While I would love to be able to use Airport Extreme drives in Time Machine, I think at this point I would be happy just being able to access the Airport Extreme drives at all.

huggies
Jan 22, 2008, 08:16 AM
One screenshot claims that network drives are now enabled with Time Machine. This is not an accurate statement, however, as Time Machine does have limited network drive capabilities in Mac OS X 10.5.1. Time Machine specifically does not allow Airport Extreme network drives...

I apologize in advance if the answer to this question is obvious, or already been stated...

I don't have an Airport Extreme. What I have is an iMac, and a macbook pro, and 1TB external HD is bought and on its way. Up to now, my plan was to partition the drive, and hook up directly via USB to the imac. Use Partition 1 as Time Machine for iMac, and hopefully share Partition 2 as wireless drive to macbook pro, which would use partition 2 as its Time Machine drive.

Will this work now? (pre 10.5.2?) Is it just AEBS connected drives with the issue? Or any wireless networked drive (my hypothetical above included)?

Thanks in advance!

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 08:30 AM
I love how people think Apple just does things to piss people off, or for no good reason.

Even if it was related to a marketing concept that they wanted to fully realize with a new product line... So be it.


I love how Fanboys generalize that everyone is pissed off about everything Apple does. I'm not pissed just disappointed. I bought an AEBS because of the feature touted in the Time Machine material before Leopard got released.

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 08:32 AM
Its not a Mac OS X issue. Its an AE issue. Apple has to update the ROM of the AE, not issue an OS X fix. That's why Time Capsule works - it has an updated ROM.

So keep asking Apple for this feature (I know I am - though right now I'm simply using Leopard File Sharing on my G5 to serve my Firewire drives for TM to my MacBook Pros in the house), but don't expect it in an OS X update.

Bottom line is even YOU aren't sure about that. That would be nice to see a firmware update to fix some AEBS problems a lot of folks are having in addition to the Time Machine fix.. so I guess we'll see whenever that happens if ever.

0racle
Jan 22, 2008, 08:35 AM
A seemingly short time from now all devices and resources will be accessable via wireless and even remote IP methods.

CPU's, drives, printers, discs, refrigerators, light switches, phones, and even cars.

The time is neigh.

Remember which ego-maniac brought it to reality, not Bill, but Steve. RDF indeed.

Rocketman

Actually, not Steve. It's called Plan 9 and you can install it right now.

zoozx
Jan 22, 2008, 08:36 AM
The only thing I wanna know is this update going to actually allow adobe CS3 to work properly? I know there are a lot of people riding on such an update. Adobe's website claims it will, but is there any word? I could care less about translucent anything.

I'm curious, what are your CS3 issues.
I have some, just wondering what others have.

ghall
Jan 22, 2008, 08:40 AM
Meh. I'm more interested in wether this update will fix the crashes I've been having. Plus, I've grown somewhat fond of the transparent menu bar.

sblasl
Jan 22, 2008, 08:53 AM
I just want 10.5.2 to include the update that allows Aperture to recognize my Nikon D300.

morespce54
Jan 22, 2008, 08:56 AM
Sweeeeet... Now Leopard seems even more appealing... :D

Now if this could fix Mail...

twoodcc
Jan 22, 2008, 08:59 AM
looking forward to 10.5.2! hopefully it'll get here soon

slicecom
Jan 22, 2008, 09:02 AM
This is great news! Now if we could just have an option to make a folder in the dock either a stack or a regular folder, it would be PERFECT!

goodcow
Jan 22, 2008, 09:03 AM
What would that do to my settings, libraries etc.? And to answer your question: no. I seem to have misplaced my Aperture install-disc, along with my serial-number when I moved houses :(. I guess I could find them _somewhere_ (they have not been thrown away or anything of the sort).

There's a file in:

~\Library\Application Support\ProApps

This is your serial number file. You should back this up for future usage if you have indeed lost your serial number, and you can just drop this file into this folder next time prior to installing and it won't ask for one.

YMMV, this works for Final Cut Studio, it should work the same for Aperture.

bacaramac
Jan 22, 2008, 09:09 AM
I see people complaining about menu bars? Are you serious? I understand you may not like 100% of the OSX features, but on the other hand you can buy a PC running Vista....Or just bootcamp your OS to Vista and then you don't have to worry about the OSX menu bars...

aross99
Jan 22, 2008, 09:09 AM
While I would love to be able to use Airport Extreme drives in Time Machine, I think at this point I would be happy just being able to access the Airport Extreme drives at all.

I agree. I want to believe that the Time Machines issues with AirDisk are really related to the instability of AirDisk in general. I assume they HAVE to fix AirDisk, since it is still advertised on the web site, and maybe once they have that working, it will work for Time Machine also.

Since Time Machine works now on AFP shares from other Leopard machines, I don't see why it wouldn't work on AirDisks as well.

Seems like all of the AirDisk issues are related to putting the computer to sleep with a mounted AirDisk. If you can get the AirDisk unmounted before you put the computer to sleep, I think it keep on working. Of course even getting it to unmount can be problematic. I found that sometimes I have to force quit the Finder before it will let me unmount it.

Lets hope 10.5.2 fixes some of these AFP issues, and that we get an AEBS firmware update if that would help too!

writeous
Jan 22, 2008, 09:17 AM
I cant believe how many people miss the rounded corners of the menu bar. How do you even notice something like that being gone? Like someone said before, at least all of your pixels are being utilized now. All I want is for my MBP to stop acting crazy once it wakes up out of sleep(choppy animations and mouse cursor), if it even wakes up at all.

backdraft
Jan 22, 2008, 09:21 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

http://macapper.com/2007/11/16/displaperture-bringing-the-rounded-corners-to-leopard/

Now only if Apple would fix the dock and bring back the triangles vs dots and eliminate the pseudo 3D dock.

And when will UNO work with Leopard? Leopard shade too dark... http://gui.interacto.net/

Anyone know how to fix the drop shadows behind windows/apps? Too much in Leopard.

happydude
Jan 22, 2008, 09:22 AM
network drives with time machine is a must! i mean, common, no reason to not have that. i also love that apple is listening to its customers! would M$ have changed the asthetics of Vista because their customer's asked for it (and by asking for it, meaning they've already shelled out the $$ and are no longer a potential customer). apple cares. and having list view in stacks. dude, apple is listening for sure!

HailToTheVictor
Jan 22, 2008, 09:32 AM
The menu bar bothered me at first, but now I like it and changing it to white would feel like a step backwards. However, they need to fix the cluster ******* they call the dock. There are way to many reflections going on down there.

Rocketman
Jan 22, 2008, 09:34 AM
It doesn't seem to be listed at all that I can see, but does anyone know if any additional cameras have been added to Apples raw support as part of this release?

I would have expected if they were, it would be mentioned. Nikon and Sony users have been yelling about this for a while now (especially Sony, for the A700 which was released in September and we still can't use Aperture with its raw format).

I have a .MTS file from a Sony HDR-CX7 that seems hard to ingest.

As for my other comments, your iPhone is your new slim client, from which you will talk to your computer, the cloud server, and other devices with bonjour clients, and wireless resources such as discs and printers, etc. Client-server is back!

Oh, and I said IP lightswitches too :)

Rocketman

Kar98
Jan 22, 2008, 09:54 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

Well, since my monitor is rectangular, I'm fine with that :)

silverboy31
Jan 22, 2008, 10:09 AM
You do realise that you have just broken your legally-binding non-disclosure agreement with Apple? As a member of ADC you are legally bound NOT to disclose details of forthcoming software/hardware and if you do you will most likely have your membership revoked.

I've done nothing compared to the person who's been posting the screenshots and giving details about the features... I've been an ADC member for 6 years now and i know how it works

MM2270
Jan 22, 2008, 10:21 AM
Alright, now let's get this version finished and out to customers! Come on Apple, I'm rootin' for ya! :p
I'm so freakin' anxious for this release, because I will finally move to Leopard at home once it's out. Been waiting for these things to get addressed. :D

Hard Nard
Jan 22, 2008, 10:27 AM
I would hope they fix the only big problem I have:when changing desktop pictures the preference window often hangs, not seeing all of the images within. Sometimes if you change folders it won't see the images at all.

Other than that I've been pleased with !0.5 so far, would really like to networked drives happen though.

roland.g
Jan 22, 2008, 10:41 AM
I stick want stacks of Applications on the left half of the dock as previously demoed. Call it application grouping thank you.

Matthew Yohe
Jan 22, 2008, 10:45 AM
There seems to be confusion on network backups, but if you have a Leopard (This can be OS X server or client at 10.5.1) machine with an AFP share, any other Leopard computer can use that sharepoint as a disk to backup to.

pyramid6
Jan 22, 2008, 10:47 AM
Anyone know if they updated Raw Camera support? I can work around all the issues except no D300 support. The list of changes doesn't mention new cameras.

P6

arkmannj
Jan 22, 2008, 10:55 AM
A couple comments/questions about the CD/DVD drive sharing:

1) When I was looking at the pictures and noticed it was called CD/DVD drive sharing, I though why not just call it "optical drive sharing" so that when Blu-Ray or another Hi-Def/High Capacity drive starts being used it would still be a proper title. Then it hit me, maybe Apple wants Blu-Ray etc. depreciated in favor of downloadable content (iTunes) and there for doesn't really have any plans to pack in those drive types. I know people were complaining that the MBA doesn't include an optical drive, but to be honest my previous portable mac (Powerbook G4 667mhz) hadn't had a working drive for years and I still used the machine just fine.

2) To boot from another computers drive, I'm assuming there will be a firmware update to the EFI ? I'll be interested in seeing how this works.

3) Asside from booting from a drive, can't users already access drives through sharing ?

Anyhow I am very excited for many of the features/fixes 10.5.2 will have to offer. One of the biggest problems I'm hoping it will fix is random shutdowns my MacBookPro (2.4Ghz, 4GB) has been having.

Kar98
Jan 22, 2008, 11:02 AM
I stick want stacks of Applications on the left half of the dock as previously demoed. Call it application grouping thank you.

What, like this?

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8340/startmenuvt8.jpg

psychofreak
Jan 22, 2008, 11:05 AM
Looking forward to it! Optional translucent is a relief to me.

For now Leopaque (http://www.macparc.ch/mirror/Leopaque/) is great, and it even lets you customise how white the menubar is :)

plinden
Jan 22, 2008, 11:11 AM
Translucent menu bar is a mess. Also Mail is really buggy and when I send an email to myself I can`t see it in mail application. I have to go to gmail.com using safari :mad: .

So you're using GMail over IMAP? Since Mail displays only what it gets from the GMail server, this is almost certainly a GMail issue rather than Mail. I've worked on a mail app in the past and this is the sort of thing that on every release would get a P1 show stopper bug report from QA but would turn out be something to do with how the mail server or the IMAP account is configured.

GMail IMAP is kind of funky - it took me some time to get it configured right, but I get mail sent to my GMail account in Mail.

However, what I don't get in Mail is the original message in a thread - if I send an email to user1, who replies, in GMail on Safari I see both the reply and the original one I sent. Since this isn't really in my GMail Inbox, that doesn't show up in IMAP either in Mail or Thunderbird.

Neo110503
Jan 22, 2008, 11:14 AM
MacScoop provides (http://macscoop.com/articles/2008/01/20/mac-os-x-10-5-2-update-bring-endless-list-fixes) an itemized list of all the fixes and changes in the 10.5.2 seed as described in the seed notes, however, Apple does not detail every change.





that is a very hefty list! i'm really excited, this is my first big update. Any idea of a release date?

Virgil-TB2
Jan 22, 2008, 11:21 AM
If they put in a switch so we never have to see the horrid purple splash screen ever again, they will have addressed every complaint I have about Leopard. :)

(yes I know how to hack in and get rid of it, but it should be a setting IMO)

johnnyjibbs
Jan 22, 2008, 11:23 AM
So can someone clarify on the stacks -

List view is the hierarchical way to open stacks as shown

but

the Display as: Folder/Stack - does that refer to the actual look of the icon? Have they also listened so that stacks look like their enclosing folders in the dock like in Tiger, etc)?!

What about Quick Look and stacks - does that work?

HLdan
Jan 22, 2008, 11:27 AM
This is ludicrous. They disabled it right before Leopard shipped, yes you can do a hack (heck I posted it here)... but suddenly it'll work with a Time Capsule?

blah

Dude, what are upset about? If you ordered Time Capsule because it was the only NAS solution then you can simply cancel your order and buy a 3rd party external hard drive.
If you already have an external hard drive now you can use it. What are complaining about? For heaven sake. :rolleyes:

MacEyeDoc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:28 AM
Translucent Menubar is now optional? Thank you! :) It's good to know Apple is listening to user feedback.

Does anyone know if you can go back to the Tiger dock without the little "table" the icons sit on? For some reason I really dislike the new dock.

Thanks.

psychofreak
Jan 22, 2008, 11:33 AM
I have two accessibility issues, which is odd as that is touted as a big feature in 10.5:
-The sidebar's text should be resizable like other OSX apps
-The large mouse pointer sizes should not be pixelated

MacEyeDoc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:36 AM
Actually, not Steve. It's called Plan 9 and you can install it right now.

Did you get that in Outer Space?

HLdan
Jan 22, 2008, 11:37 AM
New scroll bars anyone??? :) Lol... Well at least we know Safari will be snappier :p

Thank you! Who gives a frick about some stupid translucent menu bar option? The aqua scroll bars don't belong in Leopard. If any aesthetic change should happen it should be the scroll bars.

But in all honesty, people on the forum should be more concerned about apps running properly and more efficient with the update rather than the translucent menu bar. :p

Mac.
Jan 22, 2008, 11:38 AM
Optional Translucent Menubar!

YAY!!! :cool:

MM2270
Jan 22, 2008, 11:39 AM
Does anyone know if you can go back to the Tiger dock without the little "table" the icons sit on? For some reason I really dislike the new dock.

Thanks.

There are already a host of utilities out there that can assist with this, but if you are not afraid of entering a one-line Terminal command, do this:

defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean YES; killall Dock

That will get you the same 2D style Dock you see when moving the dock to the left or right of the screen.

MacEyeDoc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:39 AM
The menu bar bothered me at first, but now I like it and changing it to white would feel like a step backwards. However, they need to fix the cluster ******* they call the dock. There are way to many reflections going on down there.

My feelings also - usually you don't want any reflections on your screen - why the hell start with them?

psychofreak
Jan 22, 2008, 11:41 AM
Thank you! Who gives a frick about some stupid translucent menu bar option? The aqua scroll bars don't belong in Leopard. If any aesthetic change should happen it should be the scroll bars.


That's why I changed (http://www.silvermac.com/2007/itunes-scrollbars/) them to the iTunes scrollbars :)

HLdan
Jan 22, 2008, 11:48 AM
Babygotback.com claims the update is 400MB, if this is true then we all should expect many of the features to end up in the public release. Apple has never sent out a software update this big. The most I've seen is 160MB for Mac OS X.

That's why I changed (http://www.silvermac.com/2007/itunes-scrollbars/) them to the iTunes scrollbars :)

Oh I did as well. It works to a certain degree however some of the UI still reveals the aqua and some applications bypass the my new scrollbars and show up with the old aqua ones.

MacEyeDoc
Jan 22, 2008, 11:54 AM
There are already a host of utilities out there that can assist with this, but if you are not afraid of entering a one-line Terminal command, do this:

defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean YES; killall Dock

That will get you the same 2D style Dock you see when moving the dock to the left or right of the screen.


Thanks! That works better than:

defaults write com.apple.dock orientation -string top;killall Dock

Fabio_gsilva
Jan 22, 2008, 12:02 PM
The whining on the translucent menu bar is ludicrous....I wouldn't even characterize it as 'translucent'....it's more like a tiny background blur. There is absolutely zero obstruction in clarity due to the effect, I can perfectly see what the menu says. Good for the people who get a solid menu bar option, but to claim that the effect makes reading the menus hard is totally ridiculous.

I couldn't agree more...

Of course, it's great to have options, because each one has individual preferences that count...

overcast
Jan 22, 2008, 12:12 PM
They must've done the translucent menu bar not just for aesthetics but so you'd get less burn-ins, but it seems as thought since I've installed Leopard from the first weekend that by the time I shut down everyday now, my temporary burn-in shows up....It's shown up more since Leopard, in other words.
What exactly are you burning in. Your LCD that does not suffer burn in?

Wild-Bill
Jan 22, 2008, 12:19 PM
The only bad news is that the update weights as much as, hold your breathe... over 400MB, a record size which could even grow further in the final build.

If this isn't an indication that Leopard was indeed rushed and incomplete, I don't know what is.

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 12:23 PM
If this isn't an indication that Leopard was indeed rushed and incomplete, I don't know what is.

lack of compressible files?

elppa
Jan 22, 2008, 12:30 PM
Yes



What would that do to my settings, libraries etc.? And to answer your question: no. I seem to have misplaced my Aperture install-disc, along with my serial-number when I moved houses :(. I guess I could find them _somewhere_ (they have not been thrown away or anything of the sort).

That said, the Apple Discussion Boards are full of people complaining about this problem. Many of them have tried re-installing and it didn't help.

The main reason I suggested all this is that Aperture runs very well on my system (BlackBook, Rev A). I certainly don't have any of the problems which you outlined.

Trashing the Aperture Application (provided you find your copy) doesn't matter.

All the imporant files are:
a] Aperture Library usually in (~/pictures/), but could be anywhere
b] com.apple.Aperture.plist in (~/Library/Preferences/)
c] Aperture System ID in (/Library/Application Support/ProApps/)

tilde (~) stands for your home folder. Choose Go > Go to Folder and paste any of the paths above into the box if you are having trouble finding stuff.

Sent all this info as a Private Message, as it might get lost in this big thread.

psychofreak
Jan 22, 2008, 12:33 PM
lack of compressible files?

Files are compressible...

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 12:35 PM
Files are compressible...


Go compress a program and tell me how much size you squeeze out.

Then go compress a text file. See the difference?

MikeyC
Jan 22, 2008, 12:38 PM
When is Apple gonna fix the scroller bars in Leopard? When leopard was announced, they said that the theme for everything was going to be standardised, (ie all brushed metal removed).

However, the scrollbars in Safari and the finder (old aqua) are still different than in itunes / iphoto (dull blue / grey).

A simple thing that seems to have been overlooked!

xUKHCx
Jan 22, 2008, 12:41 PM
When is Apple gonna fix the scroller bars in Leopard? When leopard was announced, they said that the theme for everything was going to be standardised, (ie all brushed metal removed).

However, the scrollbars in Safari and the finder (old aqua) are still different than in itunes / iphoto (dull blue / grey).

A simple thing that seems to have been overlooked!

I hadn't noticed them (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=385209) ;)

exigentsky
Jan 22, 2008, 12:44 PM
This is great. Maybe they'll listen even more and have a non-terminal way to use the flat dock instead of the psychedelic and inconsistent 3D one. Maybe 10.5.2 will fix my unstable internet on OS X too. That would make me switch back to it.

MikeyC
Jan 22, 2008, 12:48 PM
I hadn't noticed them (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=385209) ;)


Thanks!!! I might just wait for 10.5.2 to see if they correct it themselves. If not, i'll install this!

Wild-Bill
Jan 22, 2008, 12:50 PM
lack of compressible files?

:rolleyes:
Um, no. The fact that the update is at 400 megs and growing is an indication that Leopard was released in a rush and incomplete, despite having six extra months to complete it.

xUKHCx
Jan 22, 2008, 12:54 PM
:rolleyes:
Um, no. The fact that the update is at 400 megs and growing is an indication that Leopard was released in a rush and incomplete, despite having six extra months to complete it.

FYI the combo update for Tiger from 10.4.11 from 10.4.0 was a mere 180MB (PPC) and 320MB for Intel.

With Leopard they probably have overheads due to everything being in one update but 400MB is a huge update this early. What is it going to be like by the time 10.5.9+ rolls round 1GB maybe

50548
Jan 22, 2008, 12:55 PM
"Transparency in the menu bar is now optional and can be set in Desktop Preferences"

Yes!!! Thanks Apple. Can't wait for update

This is SIMPLY AWESOME. Apple proves once more that it's the ONLY company in the world which is driven by design and which provides for almost prompt solutions based on the feedback of its customers...most changes highlighted here are FEATURES, not bug-fixes...Leopard has been an outstanding success all over the world, and Apple just makes the best even better now.

In fact, it's amazing how quick Apple is in responding to the requests of its customers...try that on a Microsoft or any other jurassic profit-driven IT company...you won't find it.

I am pretty sure SJ reads these forums after all...:rolleyes: GO APPLE!

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 12:57 PM
:rolleyes:
Um, no. The fact that the update is at 400 megs and growing is an indication that Leopard was released in a rush and incomplete, despite having six extra months to complete it.

if you say so.

If the system preferences takes up 3 meg for the executable and all they changed was the ability to enable or disable the opaque menu bar, they still have to re-distribute the whole 3 meg, which is mostly uncompressable. Does that mean the whole 3MB of compiled code was bad? no, they added a feature.. but it added 2.8 megs to the distributable package.

The size of the patch, IMHO has nothing to do with how much was fixed other than the amount of compiled code contained within. A fix could be a single re-write of 10 lines of code or a complete overhaul. Either way it's compiled code that has limited compression ability. Which in turn makes package sizes swell up and 'seem' huge.

I'm not saying the list of fixes in 10.5.2 isn't long, I'm just saying the size of the package is hardly an indication to go by.

sunfast
Jan 22, 2008, 01:01 PM
Is this no longer MacWhiners.com? :eek:

Seriously though, seems like a great update.

tothelimit
Jan 22, 2008, 01:02 PM
... :) It's good to know Apple is listening to user feedback.

now, about that copy/paste function on the iPhone...

motulist
Jan 22, 2008, 01:09 PM
i was disappointed not to see mention of organization in spotlight results windows. i get this issue all the time.... i do a search in the spotlight menu, and want to know the path of the "top hit" so i click "show all." suddenly, my "top hit" is completely buried and hard to find. the old organization, with files grouped by kind, was far superior.

If you just hover your mouse over the selected item in the spotlight results list, it pops up the path info.

howzitjoe
Jan 22, 2008, 01:18 PM
I wonder if it will include the ability to have a single click to open items on the desktop like back in OS9, I miss that feature.

howzitjoe

Breckenridge
Jan 22, 2008, 01:27 PM
I'm color blind and almost blind in general and the new transparent menu system has been nothing but pain for me. That is great news, now apple needs to finish the concept of resolution independent UI for all of their applications such that I can upscale by X2 and be able to see better.

The ability to upscale and downscale GUI has been out there for a while but never worked perfectly on all applications.

"defaults write NSGlobalDomain AppleDisplayScaleFactor 2" would mess up the GUI for Safari, iChat and almost every apple applications but it seems that upscaling is working just fine with core finder features and menu system.

pjarvi
Jan 22, 2008, 01:32 PM
Disappointed, I don't see a fix for Bluetooth being disconnected when waking from sleep anywhere in the list of fixes in 10.5.2. :(

BWhaler
Jan 22, 2008, 01:32 PM
You do realise that you have just broken your legally-binding non-disclosure agreement with Apple? As a member of ADC you are legally bound NOT to disclose details of forthcoming software/hardware and if you do you will most likely have your membership revoked.

Not unless this person received it from someone else and did not agree to the terms.

Plus, who invited our mother to MacRumors?

xUKHCx
Jan 22, 2008, 01:47 PM
I'm not saying the list of fixes in 10.5.2 isn't long, I'm just saying the size of the package is hardly an indication to go by.

Well lets put it this way, combo in brackets

10.4.1 37MB
10.4.2 44MB (58MB)
10.4.3 97MB (109MB)
10.4.4 55MB (120MB)
10.4.11 (180.8MB)

So all the updates from 10.4.0 to 10.4.11 are only 180.8MB now taking a bad conversion factor adding in the universal apps to say that is 361.6MB.

Now saying that 10.5.2 is ~400MB means it is a huge update

Wild-Bill
Jan 22, 2008, 01:53 PM
Well lets put it this way, combo in brackets

10.4.1 37MB
10.4.2 44MB (58MB)
10.4.3 97MB (109MB)
10.4.4 55MB (120MB)
10.4.11 (180.8MB)

So all the updates from 10.4.0 to 10.4.11 are only 180.8MB now taking a bad conversion factor adding in the universal apps to say that is 361.6MB.

Now saying that 10.5.2 is ~400MB means it is a huge update

Thank you for validating my claim. :D

Now, I hope somewhere in that 400 megs lies a fix to Mail. I stopped using it because I was tired of seeing mail that wouldn't go out, and seeing about 30 some odd new mail windows open when trying to create a new mail message.

BWhaler
Jan 22, 2008, 01:57 PM
Alright, now let's get this version finished and out to customers! Come on Apple, I'm rootin' for ya! :p
I'm so freakin' anxious for this release, because I will finally move to Leopard at home once it's out. Been waiting for these things to get addressed. :D


Please, please no.

I know we are all excited to receive Leopard the way it should have shipped in the first place without these terrible UI decisions and bugs, bugs, bugs.

But releasing something before it is ready is what got us in this place to begin with.

Sure, I want 10.5.2 as soon as possible as something on Leopard crashes daily for me. But after suffering through Leopard for the past few months, I would rather Apple take the time now and get Leopard to be worthy of the Apple name.

Quillz
Jan 22, 2008, 02:09 PM
New scroll bars anyone??? :) Lol... Well at least we know Safari will be snappier :p
Not a big deal, really, it's very easy to replace the Aqua resources with the iTunes resources...

So, does anyone know what the menu bar will look like if transparency is turned off? Just a simple white bar, or will it have the gradient that Tiger had?

Quillz
Jan 22, 2008, 02:14 PM
This is SIMPLY AWESOME. Apple proves once more that it's the ONLY company in the world which is driven by design and which provides for almost prompt solutions based on the feedback of its customers...most changes highlighted here are FEATURES, not bug-fixes...Leopard has been an outstanding success all over the world, and Apple just makes the best even better now.

In fact, it's amazing how quick Apple is in responding to the requests of its customers...try that on a Microsoft or any other jurassic profit-driven IT company...you won't find it.

I am pretty sure SJ reads these forums after all...:rolleyes: GO APPLE!
This post really made me laugh, especially how you honestly believe Apple isn't any more greedy than any other large corporation. You think Apple gives a damn about you and your needs? They sure do, as long as you have a large, fat wallet.

mattmac
Jan 22, 2008, 02:18 PM
Apart from all the little appearance changes does anyone know if the update will make the most of the new Penryn processors. There was a rumor in another thread building up to the new Mac Pro release that 10.5.2 should be able to run quicker due to something about SSE4 ( excuse my technical ignorance).

50548
Jan 22, 2008, 02:29 PM
This post really made me laugh, especially how you honestly believe Apple isn't any more greedy than any other large corporation. You think Apple gives a damn about you and your needs? They sure do, as long as you have a large, fat wallet.

If you understand the difference between "driven by design" and "driven by profit" you will agree with me...both orientations seek profit, but while the former drives demand with innovation, the other just attempts to maximize profit with minor consideration for customer requests and industrial design, or at least until its ordinary model requires a little change here and there...Apple rules in this regard, and that's why its market value is gonna surpass MS is no time...:rolleyes:

iBug2
Jan 22, 2008, 02:30 PM
Apple just seeded 10.5.2 C20, the new build comes in 2 packages. One combo updater at 350 MB and one Graphics Driver package at 50 MB. There are no known issues left with C20.

tribulation
Jan 22, 2008, 02:53 PM
the 1st good thing that :apple: has done in months & months
i really hope this is true. stacks with list view & no transparent menu bar would be KILLER!!!!! the 2 worst things they did to leopard

now fix the graphics issues & maybe i'd be able to use it finally

richard4339
Jan 22, 2008, 02:59 PM
I'm with the other posters wanting a few more bugfixes, specifically, the wireless connectivity problems that people seem to have, dropping connections on a regular basis...

Kar98
Jan 22, 2008, 03:09 PM
stacks with list view & no transparent menu bar would be KILLER!!!!! the 2 worst things they did to leopard

Really. How about the freaking mighty mouse losing its connection all the time, and the wonky wireless?

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 03:10 PM
Really. How about the freaking mighty mouse losing its connection all the time, and the wonky wireless?

dont have either of those problems here.

MacAddict1978
Jan 22, 2008, 03:10 PM
I must confess I will be changing the menu bar back to white. If for no other reason than the white menu bar is an iconic Mac thing. Like the smiley faced computer.

that's if it lets you turn it white! if they enable that option, i'm betting they go for a metalic gray. seems to be the new theme and matches all the new hardware and such.

i like the menu bar just fine. It goes with the alum imac :-)

and the translucent menu is blurred, and there are no issues seeing anything. perhaps it may distracting to some, but you can see it just fine.

milo
Jan 22, 2008, 03:15 PM
I think it blends in with the background really nicely, which is what they were going for I believe. So the only focus would be on the window your using, not anything else.

Problem is, the text in the menubar needs to be readable. That doesn't work so well if it blends in with the background. Obviously some backgrounds make it more unreadable than others.

I never got why some people were so upset that users were asking to turn that off...is it really so offensive that someone else might get their problem solved? Same goes for stacks.

Glad to see apple listening (assuming the option stays in) again, although I'm a little surprised it's just on/off instead of a transparency slider.

There is absolutely zero obstruction in clarity due to the effect, I can perfectly see what the menu says.

And you've checked this with every possible background image?
:rolleyes:

Jetson
Jan 22, 2008, 03:16 PM
I looked over the list of fixes and didn't find the problem with sound.

Ever since upgrading to Leopard 10.5.1, sometimes my sound will not play. There is no speaker icon in the menubar, and if I adjust the sound volume or on/off setting, Leopard displays a speaker not available image.

Sometimes I have to reboot 2 times before the audio becomes available again. Fiddling with the sound preferences has no effect.

MacAddict1978
Jan 22, 2008, 03:17 PM
You do realise that you have just broken your legally-binding non-disclosure agreement with Apple? As a member of ADC you are legally bound NOT to disclose details of forthcoming software/hardware and if you do you will most likely have your membership revoked.

Good god! Get a life! He simply commented on something that was already disclosed elsewhere and is now all over the net. I'm sure the Apple secret agents and trying to locate him by IP address right now to take him away and rip up his ADC.

It would be one thing if he chose to just post a thread listing every feature. (Macsoop was already kind enough to do that for us. Yeah. Oh, and THANKS Macscoop! ;))

dazed
Jan 22, 2008, 03:18 PM
hopefully they fixed mail not remembering the verify certificate options and external drives going read only now and then for no reason.

MacAddict1978
Jan 22, 2008, 03:19 PM
Really. How about the freaking mighty mouse losing its connection all the time, and the wonky wireless?

my mighty mouse lost the ability to scroll up in leopard. scrolls every other way. grrr

Mindflux
Jan 22, 2008, 03:22 PM
my mighty mouse lost the ability to scroll up in leopard. scrolls every other way. grrr


So clean your mouse?

seashellz2
Jan 22, 2008, 03:23 PM
oh, Goodie!
Apple are finally releasing the Grand Master Final finished product (hopefully) of 10.5 only 3 months late.....what a disaster 10.5 is.

The way it is worded, it almost sounds like they rebuilt it from the ground up.

Word up!

I expect Ill break down and buy the 10.5.2 retail box when its out in a month

milo
Jan 22, 2008, 03:33 PM
Surely you can just plug it into the usb on the computer and instead of the airport extreme just get a wireless router?

Wireless back up isn't going to be fast!

That's not convenient for something like a laptop. And while it may not be fast, once the first backup is done, it's just incremental after that. Won't take too long, especially with N wireless.

All the little GUI enhancements are nice and all, but I'd prefer the deal with the under-the-hood issues first.

Considering there are reportedly over 100 fixes in 10.5.2, there will be under the hood fixes as well as GUI fixes. I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive, or why one would need to wait for the other.

:rolleyes:
Um, no. The fact that the update is at 400 megs and growing is an indication that Leopard was released in a rush and incomplete, despite having six extra months to complete it.

Either that, or they are just picking up the pace of updates. I'm sure if you randomly picked any release of OSX, windows, or linux, there are probably at least that many things that could be fixed...the difference is that in most cases it takes years for all those fixes to happen, not months.

futureswitcher
Jan 22, 2008, 04:36 PM
kind of ironic, actually...as soon as leopard came out, I hated the translucent menu bar, but now that i can change it, i've grown to like it!

great to have the choice, anyway! Thanks, :apple::

GoaTrancer
Jan 22, 2008, 06:36 PM
Wow it's great to hear that Apple is listening to the criticisms of of users/reviewers (arstechnica wrote a great one).
They realized that style was getting in the way of productivity with some of the new features, and are making the appropriate corrections.
I hope this continues.
If Apple can refrain from become to enamored with its own design skills and focus on usefulness first and keep its unique eye for style in its rightful place of icing on the cake, it will continue to slowly but surely grow its market share.

Phazer80s
Jan 22, 2008, 10:20 PM
Wow it's great to hear that Apple is listening to the criticisms of of users/reviewers (arstechnica wrote a great one).
They realized that style was getting in the way of productivity with some of the new features, and are making the appropriate corrections.
I hope this continues.
If Apple can refrain from become to enamored with its own design skills and focus on usefulness first and keep its unique eye for style in its rightful place of icing on the cake, it will continue to slowly but surely grow its market share.

Well put.

I'll be glad when it becomes an option. The essence of the idea -- that is, to keep the menubar out of the user's way, is a good one. The execution was poor, IMO. The menubar is such a constant, and takes up such little space on screen, it's never distracting. The way Leopard adds a dull frost to any colour beneath made for distraction. Now it seems to be an option -- a simple way to fulfill the preferences of either opinion.

Now if only we could get them to increase legibility by lightening the grey used in the iconbars of the new apps... :rolleyes:

cms2
Jan 22, 2008, 11:10 PM
I'm glad the menu bar will be an option. I think I'll keep my big cat the way it is - vaseline smear and all, according to arstechnica - but choice is generally a good thing.

HLdan
Jan 22, 2008, 11:11 PM
the 1st good thing that :apple: has done in months & months
i really hope this is true. stacks with list view & no transparent menu bar would be KILLER!!!!! the 2 worst things they did to leopard

now fix the graphics issues & maybe i'd be able to use it finally

Somehow I doubt it, based on your response you like many others will never be satisfied even if Apple gave you the moon.:rolleyes:

HLdan
Jan 22, 2008, 11:13 PM
I have two accessibility issues, which is odd as that is touted as a big feature in 10.5:
-The sidebar's text should be resizable like other OSX apps
-The large mouse pointer sizes should not be pixelated

Agreed, stuff like this makes sense over an option to change the translucent bar. I use my iMac as my living room TV/Entertainment/Workspace and from a short distance the sidebar text is too small to read even if I change the resolution.

gr8tfly
Jan 22, 2008, 11:21 PM
Translucent Menubar is now optional? Thank you! :) It's good to know Apple is listening to user feedback.

+1

Good job Apple - thanks for listening!

Quillz
Jan 23, 2008, 01:56 AM
If you understand the difference between "driven by design" and "driven by profit" you will agree with me...both orientations seek profit, but while the former drives demand with innovation, the other just attempts to maximize profit with minor consideration for customer requests and industrial design, or at least until its ordinary model requires a little change here and there...Apple rules in this regard, and that's why its market value is gonna surpass MS is no time...:rolleyes:
Wake me when Apple has 90% of the PC market, a foothold in the tablet PC market, a strong grip within the video game market, etc. I highly doubt Apple will ever surpass Microsoft in market value.

Cloudane
Jan 23, 2008, 04:54 AM
I don't think they want to. Why would they want to just become yet another PC manufacturer with ultra low profit margins, it's just not Apple's style. As awesome as they are, I doubt they could compete in that area well enough to get a decent chunk of the market. Most of the "Joe Sixpack" types just want the cheapest computer they can get hold of, which is difficult to do unless your business (not just manufacturing) is Chinese and sacrifices all elements of quality and service.

That's why they're always destined to be a niche, IMO. Nothing wrong with that, some of the best ways for a "Western world" business to survive these days is on niches and/or quality, which Apple do both of, as it's impossible to compete on price these days due to cheaper and cheaper stuff being produced from all around the world.

Porchland
Jan 23, 2008, 08:40 AM
I love how people think Apple just does things to piss people off, or for no good reason.

Even if it was related to a marketing concept that they wanted to fully realize with a new product line... So be it.

Exactly. Isn't it just as likely that Apple was designing that feature with Time Capsule in mind?

Porchland
Jan 23, 2008, 08:47 AM
Wake me when Apple has 90% of the PC market, a foothold in the tablet PC market, a strong grip within the video game market, etc. I highly doubt Apple will ever surpass Microsoft in market value.

Apple market cap: $136B.
Microsoft market cap: $299B.

Apple's market cap is about 45 percent of Microsoft's, and Apple's revenues and gross earnings have been growing at a much faster rate the past few years than Microsoft's. As Mac/OS X continues to edge Microsoft/Windows in virtually every market share measure, iPhone continues to grow, Apple TV takes off, and Microsoft continues to rely more and more on Windows, why is it so crazy to think Apple will eventually overtake Microsoft in market cap?

I would say it is likely that Apple will eventually overtake Microsoft if the two companies continue down their current paths.

ingenious
Jan 23, 2008, 12:29 PM
Apart from all other fixes, I hope they have spell checked the localized versions as well. In one place in Finder Preferences of the Swedish version of 10.5.1, it says (translated) "Hard Dis" instead of "Hard Disk"....

In another thread, I posted a question regarding Finder not remembering the position of the scroll bars. If you have scrolled down in a window, open a folder and then go back, you will find yourself scrolled back to the top of that window. Anybody knows if this has been fixed?

kind of like the Library folder being named Libería (bookstore) instead of Biblioteca (library) in the Spanish localization?

gotta love those false cognates!

Is that intentional? It bugs me.

veeco3110
Jan 23, 2008, 06:02 PM
about time for the toolbar...

Ludde
Jan 24, 2008, 07:24 AM
But we can never bring back roundies. :(

Try Displaperture http://www.manytricks.com/displaperture/ ;)

em500
Jan 25, 2008, 06:44 AM
Apple market cap: $136B.
Microsoft market cap: $299B.

Apple's market cap is about 45 percent of Microsoft's, and Apple's revenues and gross earnings have been growing at a much faster rate the past few years than Microsoft's. As Mac/OS X continues to edge Microsoft/Windows in virtually every market share measure, iPhone continues to grow, Apple TV takes off, and Microsoft continues to rely more and more on Windows, why is it so crazy to think Apple will eventually overtake Microsoft in market cap?

I would say it is likely that Apple will eventually overtake Microsoft if the two companies continue down their current paths.
And if Apple's market cap continues to grow at the pace the past years for another 5 years, it will be the biggest company on the planet. Another 10 years, and it will account for half the US GDP. You see the problem with extrapolating exponential growth?

kps
Jan 25, 2008, 09:13 AM
The time is neigh.I've just laughed myself horse.

Are you trying to stirrup trouble?

faumble
Jan 25, 2008, 10:46 PM
Hope this new build brings stability or fix the multiple new macpro issues!

propropro
Jan 27, 2008, 04:08 AM
Apart from all the little appearance changes does anyone know if the update will make the most of the new Penryn processors. There was a rumor in another thread building up to the new Mac Pro release that 10.5.2 should be able to run quicker due to something about SSE4 ( excuse my technical ignorance).

It seems nobody knows anything about rumored penryn optimizations :( That would be really great for Mac Pro owners and maybe future MBP-Penryn buyers :P

drdocument
Jan 29, 2008, 06:42 PM
Please, please no.

I know we are all excited to receive Leopard the way it should have shipped in the first place without these terrible UI decisions and bugs, bugs, bugs.

But releasing something before it is ready is what got us in this place to begin with.

Sure, I want 10.5.2 as soon as possible as something on Leopard crashes daily for me. But after suffering through Leopard for the past few months, I would rather Apple take the time now and get Leopard to be worthy of the Apple name.

If something is crashing daily I'd be looking into other causes. We're running 3 copies of 10.5.1 in our house with virtually no issues, including Office 2004 and 2008, Adobe CS3 and iLife and iWork apps.

DMann
Jan 29, 2008, 07:18 PM
If something is crashing daily I'd be looking into other causes. We're running 3 copies of 10.5.1 in our house with virtually no issues, including Office 2004 and 2008, Adobe CS3 and iLife and iWork apps.

Same here..... virtually zero app crashes.... with an occasional Safari quit. I would look into deleting old preferences and cache in Library and Application Support. Leopard is solid, snappy, and consistently responsive.

johnnyjibbs
Jan 30, 2008, 03:40 AM
If something is crashing daily I'd be looking into other causes. We're running 3 copies of 10.5.1 in our house with virtually no issues, including Office 2004 and 2008, Adobe CS3 and iLife and iWork apps.

Same here..... virtually zero app crashes.... with an occasional Safari quit. I would look into deleting old preferences and cache in Library and Application Support. Leopard is solid, snappy, and consistently responsive.

I would have to say the same. When I first got Leopard (10.5.0), I did experience a slow-down on my 12" G4 PB compared with Tiger, plus I had some issues with Mail and Safari - oh and Photoshop Elements 2.0 (which still won't run??)

But it got a lot better after the 10.5.1 update and I for some reason it even feels much faster now. Overall, I'm finding it very stable and going back to Tiger would just be weird.

Still, I agree with BWhaler, that maybe Leopard was a little rushed, and someone in the UI department must have had a bad hair day to come up with the silly stacks implementation. Nice to see that Apple has listened.

I would imagine 10.5.2 to arrive any day now, as it must come pre-installed on the MB Air, which is shipping this week.

mikebook pro
Jan 31, 2008, 08:45 AM
I wish I could compare more but I jumped on the Mac boat when leopard came ut so my MBP shipped with it.

However, from 10.5.0 to 10.5.1 I felt a difference.

Yes, I've had safari quit about 4 or 5 times total on me.

Nothing like my PC tough :)

And I'm just physched for 10.5.2 but I don't understand why everyone hates on the translucent menu bar? I like it!

drdocument
Jan 31, 2008, 08:58 AM
I wish I could compare more but I jumped on the Mac boat when leopard came ut so my MBP shipped with it.

However, from 10.5.0 to 10.5.1 I felt a difference.

Yes, I've had safari quit about 4 or 5 times total on me.

Nothing like my PC tough :)

And I'm just physched for 10.5.2 but I don't understand why everyone hates on the translucent menu bar? I like it!

There seem to be a few unresolved issues with web apps that run inside pages displayed in Safari, and plug-ins, but they appear to be resolving as they are identified.

manu chao
Mar 1, 2008, 01:49 PM
i do a search in the spotlight menu, and want to know the path of the "top hit" so i click "show all." suddenly, my "top hit" is completely buried and hard to find. the old organization, with files grouped by kind, was far superior.

I second this. Being able to quickly go through e.g. all images which match the search criteria or to to display only the pdfs matching it or only the top 5 pdfs was great.

le sacre
Mar 12, 2008, 06:59 PM
If you just hover your mouse over the selected item in the spotlight results list, it pops up the path info.

true, but it doesn't do me much good if the path is too long to remember once the menu list disappears (which it will, as soon as i do anything else). you can't even copy it to the clipboard (or do anything else with control-click on those files in the menu results list).

i very often right-click on a file in the search results window in order to open the enclosing folder. so it's problematic when my search result gets buried in a sea of unrelated items once i open that window (since i can't just right-click it in the menu results list).

schmoogol
Mar 12, 2008, 07:10 PM
true, but it doesn't do me much good if the path is too long to remember once the menu list disappears (which it will, as soon as i do anything else). you can't even copy it to the clipboard (or do anything else with control-click on those files in the menu results list).

i very often right-click on a file in the search results window in order to open the enclosing folder. so it's problematic when my search result gets buried in a sea of unrelated items once i open that window (since i can't just right-click it in the menu results list).

If you hold down command as you click on your top hit in the spotlight menu it will reveal that file in the finder.

idonotliketostu
Mar 20, 2008, 12:33 AM
Looking forward to it! Optional translucent is a relief to me.

Definately, should have been included from the start!

le sacre
Mar 21, 2008, 04:15 PM
If you hold down command as you click on your top hit in the spotlight menu it will reveal that file in the finder.

thank you!!!