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Mr.Green
Feb 3, 2008, 11:37 PM
I've been reading a lot of discussion about the MBA and it appear that there are some people who just want to hate it even before seeing it real life. I just don't get it. I don't see why people need to "warn" or tell someone else why they're not going to buy something.

One person even started several threads on Amazon discussion about it and appears to be obsessively replying and defending their position:

MacBook Air and the real notebook market (http://www.amazon.com/MacBook-the-real-notebook-market/forum/Fx2S4LXAZ56WC57/Tx35J3QI8L5UACJ/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=electronics&cdAnchor=B0006HU4DK&asin=B0006HU4DK&store=electronics)

Here is one guy who posts "a warning" on every single configuration of the MBA on Amazon:

Keep in mind a serious design flaw (http://www.amazon.com/Keep-mind-serious-design-flaw/forum/Fx2308Z8FYOMVL2/Tx2L1WW9AZ34YDY/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=electronics&cdAnchor=B0007OW520&asin=B0007OW520&store=electronics)

I pre-ordered mine from the Applestore on the keynote day, but later changed my mind and decided to save the tax money and order from Amazon prime. I find it funny that the wackos come out whenever Apple has something new, but hardly any bashers for crappy PC laptops.



happyslayer
Feb 4, 2008, 12:26 AM
I have been wondering this as well. I am, at heart, a PC guy. In fact, it is and has been my job to setup, build and repair PC's with Windows, XP. Server, and even Vista for the last 13 years. I do accasionally work on Macs and I have owned a Macbook - although only for about 6 months - it was just too heavy to carry with me all the time.

The MacbookAir is by far one of the coolest new computers to come out in a long time. It is however, made for a specific group of laptop users... the Ultraportable users. It is made to be very thin and light. Yes it is expensive... but so are the Sony, Dell and Lenovo laptops that weigh in at 3 lbs or less and come with SSD drives.

Yes they do not come with optical drives... well so what, niether do most other ultraportable laptops. And if they do, they are usually external. (I have had 3 Sony Vaio ultraportables, and two Dell 3 pounders over the last 8 years and all of them had or have external Optical drives - heck my first Sony Pent300 Vaio had an external floppy drive also :) There is a USB superdrive available for $99.00. That is really not a bad price. I had to pay like $200 for my external CD (not CDR or DVD) drive for one of my past Vaio's. For comparision, I just bought a Samsung external USB DVDRW drive for my PC that is full sized with an external power brick and that cost $118.00 from Fry's. So again, $99.00 is not that bad.

Yes it only has one USB port... again so what?! My last two Dells (X300 and current D410) have had 2 USB ports. So far, I have never needed both at the same time... ever. If more then one USB port is necessary for what you do and a hub wont cut it for you... then do not buy an MBA.

Why some people are just hating it is so beyond me. Again, if they don't like it, they should just not buy one. Spending so much time and effort to spew negative comments and hate about the MacbookAir is just amazing to me.

My guess is that they may really want one, but cannot afford one and therefore just say negative things about them to try to keep those of us that can afford one from considering it.

Either way, I will definitely be getting one in the near future - and yes it will be the 1.8/SSD model. I can't decide whether I should order one or just wait for them to actually be available for sale in the Apple Store. ( I hate mail order... checking everyday at my door wondering will today be the day it shows up... I want to buy it, open it and use it within the same day :)

Just my thoughts...

eddietr
Feb 4, 2008, 12:31 AM
It's definitely caused some strong opinions.

I was playing around with one at the Apple Store, and there were several other people playing with the other MBA's at the same table or waiting behind to play with one.

And there were two guys over at the next table holding a couple of MBs and loudly talking about how ridiculous the MBA is and "how could anybody want that?", "It's not that much smaller?", "It doesn't even have firewire, can you believe that!", "Those people are being duped.", "It's not like these aren't thin", "I guess if all you do is word processing and you have money to burn", etc.

They kept looking at us to see the reaction. It was weird, almost like a protest.

I guess people get passionate about their computers. ;)

mcdj
Feb 4, 2008, 12:32 AM
Playground psychology 101; sour grapes. I bet if you presented any hater with a free MBA, they'd gush.

ubercool
Feb 4, 2008, 12:53 AM
Playground psychology 101; sour grapes. I bet if you presented any hater with a free MBA, they'd gush.

Hehe, that would be very funny. Wish I could arrange it. :D

richard.mac
Feb 4, 2008, 01:13 AM
lack of optical drive and smaller cpu is perfect. however i dont like that it has a 13" screen (hoping for 10-12), large bezel, no firewire, only 1 USB port, black keyboard, more expensive than it should be. i would never buy one.

cenetti
Feb 4, 2008, 01:48 AM
Playground psychology 101; sour grapes. I bet if you presented any hater with a free MBA, they'd gush.

so you think people express negative opinions because they can't afford it?

I am a "air" hater...and have 3K ready to burn....waiting for the new pro...

maybe we just know where the real value is....? ;)

LizKat
Feb 4, 2008, 02:30 AM
so you think people express negative opinions because they can't afford it?

I am a "air" hater...and have 3K ready to burn....waiting for the new pro...

maybe we just know where the real value is....? ;)


It's pretty optional to "hate" a machine one can simply choose not to buy.

Posting that one "hates" a machine and suggesting that "real" value lies elsewhere seem to solicit some sort of backlash from people who have purchased that machine and consider the thing worth what they paid for it.

Soliciting a backlash = trolling. Only you know for sure if you seek to inflame purchasers of the MacBook Air.

miniConvert
Feb 4, 2008, 02:46 AM
The problem folks have with the Air is that it isn't a conventional ultraportable, and that's what a lot of people were waiting for.

It may be very thin, but the 13" screen means it's much bigger than any other ultraportable on the market. The Sony TZ may be thicker, but it's smaller and has a vast amount of extra functionality, not to mention a removable battery (which some folk seem to really need... I guess for long trips, I don't know, I've never needed one), integrated 3G HSDPA, and an integrated optical drive.

I can understand these people's frustration and I too am a little disappointed that we got an ultra-thin laptop rather than an ultraportable. However, I do think the Air makes a lot more sense in terms of portability than a MB or MBP while remaining far more usable than a Sony TZ due to its larger screen and keyboard. Plus it has a better processor than the TZ, so it's going to feel really nippy, even if it is at the expense of some battery life.

The Air will find its own market, and some ultraportable die-hards will also come to realise that they don't need a Swiss army knife of a laptop and that the Air is actually a much better compromise than what's on the market already. The rest will go on to buy PC ultraportables and so their shouting voices will gradually fade.

Me? Well, I'd love a Sony TZ but it's useless to me without OS X. So, an Air is a real possibility going forward. Yes, I'd need to carry my external 3G HSDPA modem with me, but other than that it's all good.

southcounty949
Feb 4, 2008, 02:47 AM
Because people have different needs. I for one will get a new MBA laptop, and will probably get another new laptop next year, or a "second" one aside from the MacBook Air. Yeah, it's expensive ... It's Apple. I've read all the put downs (frankly, one too many times). It's not going to stop me from buying a MacBook Air. I love my toys. In the end, I'd rather feel happy about buying what I really wanted (MBA) rather than sitting there with a new MB or MBP wishing that I had bought the MBA. I surf the net, e-mail, and use iChat. I ocassionally use CS3, which I wouldn't want to use on a laptop full time in the first place!

And YES, I DID DRINK THE KOOL-AID and it taste damn good ! :apple:

ctt1wbw
Feb 4, 2008, 04:09 AM
so you think people express negative opinions because they can't afford it?

I am a "air" hater...and have 3K ready to burn....waiting for the new pro...

maybe we just know where the real value is....? ;)

The base model of the Air is not three thousand.

ctt1wbw
Feb 4, 2008, 04:10 AM
The problem folks have with the Air is that it isn't a conventional ultraportable, and that's what a lot of people were waiting for.

It may be very thin, but the 13" screen means it's much bigger than any other ultraportable on the market. The Sony TZ may be thicker, but it's smaller and has a vast amount of extra functionality, not to mention a removable battery (which some folk seem to really need... I guess for long trips, I don't know, I've never needed one), integrated 3G HSDPA, and an integrated optical drive.

I can understand these people's frustration and I too am a little disappointed that we got an ultra-thin laptop rather than an ultraportable. However, I do think the Air makes a lot more sense in terms of portability than a MB or MBP while remaining far more usable than a Sony TZ due to its larger screen and keyboard. Plus it has a better processor than the TZ, so it's going to feel really nippy, even if it is at the expense of some battery life.

The Air will find its own market, and some ultraportable die-hards will also come to realise that they don't need a Swiss army knife of a laptop and that the Air is actually a much better compromise than what's on the market already. The rest will go on to buy PC ultraportables and so their shouting voices will gradually fade.

Me? Well, I'd love a Sony TZ but it's useless to me without OS X. So, an Air is a real possibility going forward. Yes, I'd need to carry my external 3G HSDPA modem with me, but other than that it's all good.

Do you really think that a 12" screen is the only criteria to meeting the term "ultra portable"? I am pretty sure there are some "ultra portables" on the market that weigh the same as an Air, but can you really truly use a computer with an 11" screen? Really?

beast
Feb 4, 2008, 04:20 AM
I'm not an air hater.... i'm actually waiting for delivery.... however i am shocked that the air does not come with an apple remote as standard :eek::eek::eek:

Come Apple, how cheap do you want to be?????? Every other mac (bar the pro) comes this cheap plastic remote..... grrrrrrrrrrr

LizKat
Feb 4, 2008, 04:51 AM
I'm not an air hater.... i'm actually waiting for delivery.... however i am shocked that the air does not come with an apple remote as standard :eek::eek::eek:

Come Apple, how cheap do you want to be?????? Every other mac (bar the pro) comes this cheap plastic remote..... grrrrrrrrrrr

yeh but we all have them already it's like one more iPod usb cable geez

maybe some mac user groups of the bricks and mortar variety have a trading table! dock adapters, remotes and etc.

MacBiscuit
Feb 4, 2008, 05:13 AM
I don't think it's just sour grapes. I for one would love a MBA if someone gave it to me. But at the price there are too many compromises. Yes, it's niche, but many in that niche also would like one or more of the following

- More expandability
- Smaller footprint
- Higher performance
- Swappable battery

So those that argue that the naysayers should just buy a MB or MBP are missing the point. Many wanted something different to those machines, just not what Apple delivered.

I don't want to get embroiled in the 'is it overpriced' debate - after all nobody has to buy one. However, if it had been cheap, light and cut down - like a souped up ASUS EEE I'd definitely want one. If it were premium priced and higher specced, I might also have wanted one.

So to sum up: We wanted something genuinely different, not just thinner - so people are airing their disappointment. Doesn't mean it's a bad machine though...

weckart
Feb 4, 2008, 05:34 AM
The base model of the Air is not three thousand.

Where did anyone say or even imply that it is?

Why are so many people fed up with Apple and its lame new offering? Let me count the ways.

a) Gaps in Apple's line up still include the business ultra-portable aka PB 12" successor and the upgradeable mid-range desktop. Still.
b) Leopard is still full of holes, after coming late to the table. Priorities?
c) Apple's devoting too many resources to flashy new products, spreading itself too thinly, neglecting its bread and butter range and not always understanding its target markets (iPhone outside the US, anyone?)
d) After finally understanding that form should not always precede function, we get this undernourished Macbook? Why, Apple, why?

dsnort
Feb 4, 2008, 06:09 AM
Where did anyone say or even imply that it is?

Right here.

so you think people express negative opinions because they can't afford it?

I am a "air" hater...and have 3K ready to burn....waiting for the new pro...

maybe we just know where the real value is....? ;)

I think a lot of the backlash against the MBA is from Mac Fans who expected Apple's new "ultraportable" to be a replacement for their beloved 12" PB's, and are disappointed that Apple went a different way.

Cybergypsy
Feb 4, 2008, 06:24 AM
Its not for everyone....but why Hate.....I think the MBP is junky just sold mine.... But don,t hate it....just would not buy another....

Colman
Feb 4, 2008, 06:28 AM
I get the impression it's because they were waiting for the laptop of their dreams and are hurt and upset that Apple built something they don't want.

As per usual, people assume that if they don't want it no-one else could want it for good reasons. Standard Internet nonsense.

NickFalk
Feb 4, 2008, 06:30 AM
Ok I don't hate the 'Air'. I did however give it a hard time in my blog mostly because I have a hard time seeing where the machine actually fits. It confuses Apple's line-up and might end up confusing the customers as well. Simplifying the product-line was one of the first and most important things Jobs did when returning to the mothership.

Before the 'air' there were two lines of portables. The consumer-models: MacBook and the pro-models: MacBook Pro. When the customers arrived in the store to buy a new portable it's was a fairly easy choice. You choose the line-up you felt most comfortable with and then bought it with the specs you wanted/could afford.

Research has shown that too many choices can actually lead to customers not buying anything. Customers might walk into the store, fall in love with the looks of the 'Air' which looks to be in the same family as the pro machines. When starting to look at the specs they'll find that the consumer models are actually more powerful and cheaper. But, the air is so thin! But it's slower!

It just spells confusion and that could easily harm Apple's business.

weckart
Feb 4, 2008, 06:37 AM
Right here.


Could not disagree more. Cenetti merely pointed out that he had 3k at his disposal FOR A MAC (Book?) PRO and therefore could not belong to the generalisation that people hated the MBA because they could not afford it.

How you extrapolate that to mean that the MBA costs all of 3k is down to your reading and comprehension skills.

devilot
Feb 4, 2008, 06:43 AM
"Why do some people appear to HATE the MBA?"


Because everyone wants something that perfectly suits them.
Because everyone wants all the power of an MBP squeezed into something like the Air.

So basically, because it's impossible to please everyone.

And I think it's terribly difficult for some people to swallow the fact that smaller does not necessarily mean cheaper and can often mean the inverse.

And yet others refuse to get it through their thick skulls that not everyone needs soooo much power on-the-go. And to be fair, the Air's CPU if faster than the rev. A MBs and even the rev A MBPS since those were CD and not C2D, no? Seems plenty snappy if you're gonna be doing simpler things like MS Office, 'net browsing... video playback (er, like if you have ripped movies on the HD).

Whatever, it's annoying when people are too thick to realize people have different needs and wants. Just gotta do your best to filter 'em out.


:super late edit: As far as the footprint goes, I went from a 12" PB, to a 12" iBook, and then to a 13" MB. Weight-wise all very comparable. Is the footprint bigger? Obviously. And believe me, I was v reluctant to go bigger. But now? I quite like the resolution afforded by the bigger screen and admittedly, would have a difficult time going back to a smaller screen. So yes, the MBA sounds lovely to me (which isn't to say I don't wish it was cheaper ;)).

adeinov
Feb 4, 2008, 06:55 AM
My first post here. Normally I lurk and read and enjoy some of the posts. Decided to step in with my viewpoint

What I've seen is with the MacBook Air there are two polar opposites in terms of what people think about it. On the negative side of things there are people who dislike it because they feel Apple are trying to push this new device as something it is not (and I partly agree with them here) as well as the glossing over of items which some people feel they really require from an ultraportable. Some people just don't "get it" with the machine, however I think there are a group of people - myself included - who understand what the machine is about but who are still a little disappointed with it.

I have a trusty 12" PowerBook and I've been waiting and waiting for Apple to replace it. I bought a black MacBook and whilst its a better machine in terms of processor, screen etc it just doesn't feel right to me and is too large for my needs. When Apple released the MacBook Air I didn't care about lack of DVD drive (I used to own a PowerBook Duo!), the lack or swappable batteries or the lack of ports (though the firewire one was a shame). What I was disappointed with was the footprint and this is where a lot of people are coming from with it. I'm still buying one - just waiting for them to appear in the shops here in the UK - as my 12" PowerBook is on its last legs. I've sold my black MacBook (yay!) and am just waiting to buy. Hopefully we'll not be the only ones watching these conversations and maybe Apple will go back and design what the majority of people will need. In the meantime I'll buy this MacBook Air and enjoy it until it comes time to parting with it for something better

Ade

NickFalk
Feb 4, 2008, 07:05 AM
And yet others refuse to get it through their thick skulls that not everyone needs soooo much power on-the-go. And to be fair, the Air's CPU if faster than the rev. A MBs and even the rev A MBPS since those were CD and not C2D, no? Seems plenty snappy if you're gonna be doing simpler things like MS Office, 'net browsing... video playback (er, like if you have ripped movies on the HD).

Whatever, it's annoying when people are too thick to realize people have different needs and wants. Just gotta do your best to filter 'em out.

Well them thick-skulls are still a big part of the potential market. As I said in my last post here the Air is obviously causing confusion and that should worry Apple...

MacBiscuit
Feb 4, 2008, 07:09 AM
Research has shown that too many choices can actually lead to customers not buying anything.

This is a really good point. I was really happy with the Macbook design until the Air came along, but won't spend extra money for an inferior spec. So I'm tempted to wait for a later model with the best of both worlds, whereas previously I'd have just bought a MacBook and been happy.

Consumers are a fickle bunch!

devilot
Feb 4, 2008, 07:10 AM
I disagree that one new laptop would so thoroughly confuse potential Mac buyers from buying any Mac. I think the vast majority of computer purchasers are much more simple about purchasing-- and that one major factor is aesthetics. Example, in my many trips to various Apple stores and Genius Bars, I see and chat with people who don't have a clue what their Mac is called: it's "the white one with the screen included," the "silver laptop," "the white laptop."

Will the MBA aggravate those who actively know just enough to contemplate specs? Maybe, but it seems that much more ironic (and almost moronic) given those are the very people who should understand that different people use computers differently.

But maybe that's why it escapes them-- they can't understand that slightly less power at a price premium for a smaller/ lighter package is ideal for others.

mhaas
Feb 4, 2008, 07:39 AM
"Why do some people appear to HATE the MBA?"

Because everyone wants something that perfectly suits them.
Because everyone wants all the power of an MBP squeezed into something like the Air.

So basically, because it's impossible to please everyone.

And I think it's terribly difficult for some people to swallow the fact that smaller does not necessarily mean cheaper and can often mean the inverse.

And yet others refuse to get it through their thick skulls that not everyone needs soooo much power on-the-go. And to be fair, the Air's CPU if faster than the rev. A MBs and even the rev A MBPS since those were CD and not C2D, no? Seems plenty snappy if you're gonna be doing simpler things like MS Office, 'net browsing... video playback (er, like if you have ripped movies on the HD).

Whatever, it's annoying when people are too thick to realize people have different needs and wants. Just gotta do your best to filter 'em out.

:super late edit: As far as the footprint goes, I went from a 12" PB, to a 12" iBook, and then to a 13" MB. Weight-wise all very comparable. Is the footprint bigger? Obviously. And believe me, I was v reluctant to go bigger. But now? I quite like the resolution afforded by the bigger screen and admittedly, would have a difficult time going back to a smaller screen. So yes, the MBA sounds lovely to me (which isn't to say I don't wish it was cheaper ;)).

You sum it all up very nicely!

It seems to me that some people were expecting a mac book pro air at the size of the old small powerbook and with the price of the Asus Eeee -> Apple will never release this! And why would they?

Yes, not everything is perfect, but the mac book air is not meant to be a desktop replacement machine like the mac book pro sort of is. It is primarily a machine for people on the go. For that a processor that is tuned down is ideal, yes only 1 USB port is a bummer, but one possible dealing with. I don't miss the ethernet as it has wifi.

For work I use a 12'' Dell Latitude (it was not my deciscion...), without an external optical drive, so anything mine can do, the mac book air can do better.

My only gripes are the battery, as I try to preserve my battery by taking it out when I have it at work plugged into the power supply.

Yes, it has a bigger footprint than the old powerbook 12" but honestly the old 12" powerbook was a tuned up 12" ibook and as such thick-as-a-brick. I still consider the AIR a ultraportable because of its weight and thinness. Anything you can put in an A4 envelope is very portable for me...

Just my thoughts on the matter!

Mathis

Yes, the price, but consider that it comes with SSD and an LED backlighted screen, and that cool mac book keyboard.

maverick808
Feb 4, 2008, 08:51 AM
Before the MBA was announced there seemed to be an extremely large demand for a 12" PowerBook replacement. Basically, a hell of a lot of people wanted a 12 or even 13" MacBook Pro; a machine with all the features of the MBP but in a small and relatively light form. In my opinion, before the MBA release, there was virtually no demand for a really, really thin 13" MacBook, which is what the MBA is.

I think a lot of the people who dislike the MBA are the ones that want a small pro laptop. With the release of the MBA it is now extremely unlikely that Apple will release a smaller pro laptop anytime in the near future. Therefore, a lot of people dislike the MBA because it is a release that not only doesn't suit their needs, but also kills any hope for the machine they did want. It might not be that they hate the MBA, they just don't like that it represents the end of any hope for a 12" MBP.

treacle
Feb 4, 2008, 09:09 AM
As I wait for Fed Ex to deliver my MBA this morning. I too was hoping it would be more like the 12" PowerBook but it's not. The 12" design doesn't fit into apples current wide screen design that apple uses across the board now.

The MBA is not for everyone, it is for someone who already has a computer and for whom low price is not a major concern. Sure not everyone is going to like it but it's a step in a new direction for apple and I'm glad to be there!

It's Here!!!

mhaas
Feb 4, 2008, 09:36 AM
Before the MBA was announced there seemed to be an extremely large demand for a 12" PowerBook replacement. Basically, a hell of a lot of people wanted a 12 or even 13" MacBook Pro; a machine with all the features of the MBP but in a small and relatively light form. In my opinion, before the MBA release, there was virtually no demand for a really, really thin 13" MacBook, which is what the MBA is.

I think a lot of the people who dislike the MBA are the ones that want a small pro laptop. With the release of the MBA it is now extremely unlikely that Apple will release a smaller pro laptop anytime in the near future. Therefore, a lot of people dislike the MBA because it is a release that not only doesn't suit their needs, but also kills any hope for the machine they did want. It might not be that they hate the MBA, they just don't like that it represents the end of any hope for a 12" MBP.

In some parts true, but at the same time Apple could (depending on acceptance of the Air) diversify further and create an Air 13" and a smaller Air 11". Sort of growing the family as they usually do from generation to generation.



By the way I like ur avatar, sort of like a stylized wolf's head. Reminds of something...

Hankster
Feb 4, 2008, 09:42 AM
From what I've seen the people who dislike the MBA do so because they expected another machine. The MBA is used for a very specific reason and does not fit everyone's lifestyle. Some people are simply upset the MBA does not fit what they want.


By the way I like ur avatar, sort of like a stylized wolf's head. Reminds of something...

Wildcats...Wildcats...Wildcats Goooo!!! Great cartoon!!!

tstarks33
Feb 4, 2008, 09:51 AM
This is the typical Macbook Air Defense Force response to any criticism: "It's not for you." Think the product has design deficiencies? Well, there are some people out there who don't think that, and that's the exact market Apple is trying to reach. Couldn't that reason be used to defend *any* product? "Don't like the fact that this car has to be cranked to be started? Well, my brother doesn't care about using keys to start a car, and that's the market Ford is trying to reach. Really, it's hilarious.

SteveSparks
Feb 4, 2008, 09:52 AM
Before the MBA was announced there seemed to be an extremely large demand for a 12" PowerBook replacement. ...............

I think a lot of the people who dislike the MBA are the ones that want a small pro laptop.

You are exactly right. I think some people wanted more, I was one of them that wanted the small MBP. However, right now I carry and EEE PC as my take it with me everywhere computer. I thouoght about a MBA and finally ordered one. I like the full size screen but the form on a thin system. The EEE is nice, but thiness of the MBA will be welcome in my work bag.

cenetti
Feb 4, 2008, 09:56 AM
Before the MBA was announced there seemed to be an extremely large demand for a 12" PowerBook replacement. Basically, a hell of a lot of people wanted a 12 or even 13" MacBook Pro; a machine with all the features of the MBP but in a small and relatively light form. In my opinion, before the MBA release, there was virtually no demand for a really, really thin 13" MacBook, which is what the MBA is.

I think a lot of the people who dislike the MBA are the ones that want a small pro laptop. With the release of the MBA it is now extremely unlikely that Apple will release a smaller pro laptop anytime in the near future. Therefore, a lot of people dislike the MBA because it is a release that not only doesn't suit their needs, but also kills any hope for the machine they did want. It might not be that they hate the MBA, they just don't like that it represents the end of any hope for a 12" MBP.

that pretty much sums it up.thats how I feel..
"air" is pretty much useless for me....if it had a firewire and a 2.4-2.8 processor, I would seriously consider getting one....

so now I have to wait SOME MORE for the new pro.....
all this excitement before macworld was for nothing basically....

make a sub notebook with powerful insides...and put a 4K tag on it...I'd buy it
air is slower than mac mini with a 3K tag on it for crying out loud...I cant justify that...no matter how thin it is....

Catch
Feb 4, 2008, 09:59 AM
This is the typical Macbook Air Defense Force response to any criticism: "It's not for you." Think the product has design deficiencies? Well, there are some people out there who don't think that, and that's the exact market Apple is trying to reach. Couldn't that reason be used to defend *any* product? "Don't like the fact that this car has to be cranked to be started? Well, my brother doesn't care about using keys to start a car, and that's the market Ford is trying to reach. Really, it's hilarious.

Well its a pretty solid comeback don't you think? If you do not like ANY product it is clearly not for you. If a product sells and has a market, then that product is not flawed or underpowered or lacking in features for those people that buy it.

What other argument is there when people say that the MBA will not sell because it does not fit their needs?!

Coming on an enthusiast site like this trying to put the product down in the enthusiasts eyes is futile. What's the point? Do you really think that people buying the MBA are not fully aware of its short comings and have decided that this is not a problem for them?

Regards,

C

that pretty much sums it up.thats how I feel..
"air" is pretty much useless for me....if it had a firewire and a 2.4-2.8 processor, I would seriously consider getting one....

so now I have to wait SOME MORE for the new pro.....
all this excitement before macworld was for nothing basically....

make a sub notebook with powerful insides...and put a 4K tag on it...I'd buy it
air is slower than mac mini with a 3K tag on it for crying out loud...I cant justify that...no matter how thin it is....

I feel for you and all the other pros out there that need small form factor and full feature sets. I hope that Apple listens to you and deliver what is needed. I think the chances are slim, but Apple has surprised us before; MBA anyone? :D

Good Luck,

C

mhaas
Feb 4, 2008, 10:06 AM
that pretty much sums it up.thats how I feel..
"air" is pretty much useless for me....if it had a firewire and a 2.4-2.8 processor, I would seriously consider getting one....

so now I have to wait SOME MORE for the new pro.....
all this excitement before macworld was for nothing basically....

make a sub notebook with powerful insides...and put a 4K tag on it...I'd buy it
air is slower than mac mini with a 3K tag on it for crying out loud...I cant justify that...no matter how thin it is....

Sub-notebooks never have this kind of processors! That way they develop too much heat and need too much battery, I don't think you have quiet grasped what a sub-notebook is all about. Yes, get a new mac book pro with a speedy processor in a few weeks, but as a trade-off its heavy and bulky in comparison so - you always get what you pay for!

diabolic
Feb 4, 2008, 10:07 AM
This is the typical Macbook Air Defense Force response to any criticism: "It's not for you." Think the product has design deficiencies? Well, there are some people out there who don't think that, and that's the exact market Apple is trying to reach.

If you really believe people out there buying the MBA are somehow ending up with a system less powerful than they need, you really have no clue.

Your use of the phrase "Macbook Air Defense Force" shows exactly where you fit into the consumer demographics far more than anything else you've posted.

clayj
Feb 4, 2008, 10:13 AM
Wildcats...Wildcats...Wildcats Goooo!!! Great cartoon!!!Actually, it's "Thundercats, hooooooo!"

I don't understand the hatred, either. It's true that I have bought an MBA, but that decision was based on a quick-and-dirty analysis of its features and deciding that it will be a more-than-suitable replacement for my (since-sold) MBP. The MBP was perhaps "too much" of a machine for me, in that there were features it had which I never or hardly-ever used. But even if I decided that an MBA was not what I needed, I would hardly "hate" the machine like some people here have been actively doing.

The commenter above who said that the MBA represents the end of any hope for a 12" MBP was probably closest to the mark, I think... some people simply don't like the MBA because it's not the machine they wanted to see from Apple.

Hankster
Feb 4, 2008, 10:21 AM
This is the typical Macbook Air Defense Force response to any criticism: "It's not for you." Think the product has design deficiencies? Well, there are some people out there who don't think that, and that's the exact market Apple is trying to reach. Couldn't that reason be used to defend *any* product? "Don't like the fact that this car has to be cranked to be started? Well, my brother doesn't care about using keys to start a car, and that's the market Ford is trying to reach. Really, it's hilarious.

But, that is the logical and reasonable way of thinking. The MBA wasn't made for everyone. It was designed specifically for a certain use and many who don't fall in that category are upset over it. It's not Apple's fault. I get the feeling people are just mad Apple didn't launch a new laptop THEY could use so they end up bashing the products. Hey, I can't use the MBA...it doesn't fit my lifestyle at all but I don't think it's junk.

And the "this product isn't made for you" IS the right defense for any product. Yes, that's how the world of business works :) You can't please everyone and Apple wasn't trying to with the MBA. Those who cannot see that are just sour.

Consultant
Feb 4, 2008, 10:21 AM
For those mis-informed (i.e. not enough power for MY needs, etc), please look at the benchmarks of MBA. The MBA is faster than many of the PowerMac G5s!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=427091

Catch
Feb 4, 2008, 10:23 AM
For those mis-informed (i.e. not enough power for MY needs, etc), please look at the benchmarks of MBA. The MBA is faster than many of the PowerMac G5s!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=427091

Oh yeah, but allot of the hot shots on here need real power so they can edit film on the go. The real pros do that on trains you know! ;)

:p

C

Mr. Mustard
Feb 4, 2008, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=cenetti;4890203]so you think people express negative opinions because they can't afford it?

I am a "air" hater...and have 3K ready to burn....waiting for the new pro...


Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate! pretentious as well.

Consultant
Feb 4, 2008, 10:38 AM
Oh yeah, but allot of the hot shots on here need real power so they can edit film on the go. The real pros do that on trains you know! ;)

:p

C

Well there are more than 1 type of user for laptops. Many business users have no need for the fastest laptops and would happily use MBA for presentations, etc.

Catch
Feb 4, 2008, 10:42 AM
Well there are more than 1 type of user for laptops. Many business users have no need for the fastest laptops and would happily use MBA for presentations, etc.

I was being sarcastic my friend... hence the ;):p

I am the latter!

C

profiteor
Feb 4, 2008, 11:05 AM
I'm not an air hater.... i'm actually waiting for delivery.... however i am shocked that the air does not come with an apple remote as standard :eek::eek::eek:

Come Apple, how cheap do you want to be?????? Every other mac (bar the pro) comes this cheap plastic remote..... grrrrrrrrrrr

I do have to admit they really puzzle me on this one.

diabolic
Feb 4, 2008, 11:14 AM
I do have to admit they really puzzle me on this one.

The do include the DVI and VGA adapters ($19 each), so maybe they felt more people would rather have those than the remote.

roland.g
Feb 4, 2008, 11:18 AM
I'm not an air hater.... i'm actually waiting for delivery.... however i am shocked that the air does not come with an apple remote as standard :eek::eek::eek:

Come Apple, how cheap do you want to be?????? Every other mac (bar the pro) comes this cheap plastic remote..... grrrrrrrrrrr

They're $19 if you really need one. But really a remote for an ultraportable. Do you really need to remote control FR on an MBA. The MBA really isn't the ultramedia mac.

maverick808
Feb 4, 2008, 11:24 AM
They're $19 if you really need one. But really a remote for an ultraportable. Do you really need to remote control FR on an MBA. The MBA really isn't the ultramedia mac.

I'm on the road a lot travelling from one conference to another. I often give Keynote presentations on my MBP and rely on the remote to allow me to walk around while doing so as I feel much more relaxed when I can. The first day when I opened my first MBP I used the remote to access Front Row and haven't used it for FR since. However, I've lost count of the number of times I've used the remote when travelling to give presentations. I definitely think Apple should throw in the remote for this use.

profiteor
Feb 4, 2008, 11:26 AM
They're $19 if you really need one. But really a remote for an ultraportable. Do you really need to remote control FR on an MBA. The MBA really isn't the ultramedia mac.

The part that "confuses" me in this case is that it does come with the video adapters. Okay, maybe it's because they're a new form factor; 12" PBG4s came with adapters I think. The later MacBook didn't. Most folks with a MBA probably have a remote already. Nonetheless, I bought another. :)

The remote ends up being somewhat useful. It's not just for media, how about Keynote presentations? Given the design of the machine, presentations are the number 2 use of the included video adapters, I'd think. Of course... it's not like they bundle Keynote for free, and I no longer remember if the remote actually works with Powerpoint, without Remote Buddy or mira. And... Powerpoint is third-party anyway. ;)

Sauron's Master
Feb 4, 2008, 11:52 AM
I think everyone is missing the point.

It's not about why people think the MBA has design flaws; it's about why people have such an emotional attachment that they feel hatred for it. Why are people so negatively worked up about it?

The negative reaction highlights exactly why the MBA is going to sell; since when were people rational about purchases?

loghyr
Feb 4, 2008, 11:53 AM
Do you really think that a 12" screen is the only criteria to meeting the term "ultra portable"? I am pretty sure there are some "ultra portables" on the market that weigh the same as an Air, but can you really truly use a computer with an 11" screen? Really?

Yes, the Fujitsu P7010D has a 10.6" screen. Very usable.

People always walk by and ask, "Can you see those fonts?" At 1280 x 768, they were easy to see - very crisp. It also weighed 3.2 pounds.

The keyboard was also easy to use, once you got used to the ',', '.', and '/' keys being 2/3rds the width of the other keys. Again, people would ask how my fingers managed to fit on that keyboard.

For me though, a 32bit 1.1Ghz Pentium M is just too underpowered. I knew that going into the purchase (I had a P5020D from my previous employer and hated leaving it behind). I've gone 2 years with that purchase.

The other big drawback was the Intel 855GM video - it had a proprietary driver and mode that made it difficult to get Linux or OpenSolaris running
at the highest resolution.

And I'm pretty sure the HD was 4200RPM.

So, for me, performance wise, the Air will be a huge step up. And I'll get native terminal windows with a decent shell.

The drawback will be the size of the unit. But as I'm more concerned about
my back while running through an airport to make a connection, I'll accept
the trade-off.

shadowfax
Feb 4, 2008, 12:08 PM
Well them thick-skulls are still a big part of the potential market. As I said in my last post here the Air is obviously causing confusion and that should worry Apple...

Nick, you gotta be kidding! Apple's product line is one of the simplest consumer electronics product lines on the planet, even with the Air. Three models: Pro, Consumer, and Very Portable. The Air is a Pro machine. It's just Pro in the sense of "I slide this into my briefcase, where it adds about as much weight as a small portfolio, and go," rather than "I render movie scenes on the way too work with my laptop."

That's really confusing... for John Dvorak. I don't understand the argument that the MacBook Air is going to confuse the product lines, just because it's an "ultraportable" that has a big keyboard and screen. That seems like a gem to road warriors. It's still the size of a notebook/piece of paper, and everyone carries a bag that that would fit into for work, because people generally also take notebooks/portfolios around with them too...

I'm confused about why there would be confusion.

Suncusser
Feb 4, 2008, 12:22 PM
I've got a G5 dual tower in my office and several iMacs and towers out in the lab for imaging, number crunching and performing DNA analysis. I use a 17 inch G5 MPB at home. I travel 30-50K miles a year. I use the machine on the road for writing papers and occasionally building a figure but mostly its used for presentations, working with Acrobat and email correspondence. Used a 12" MPB because its easy to tote around and works well. The MBA may be too slow and limited to be a primary machine but I don't play games and rarely try to play a DVD in a computer. The MBA's specs are better than either of my old G4 powerbooks and I ordered one the first day as I've been waiting for months for the release of a replacement for my 12".

dthree36
Feb 4, 2008, 12:31 PM
what can I say that hasn't been said. I love the MBA but am I 100% happy with the design. NO, I wish they included an express card slot and maybe one more USB port. But think about its true purpose, it is not a desktop replacement like the Macbook Pro can be. It truly is a work of Art with the functionality for people on the go. I doubt many people pack up ALL their USB external devices when on the go.

I haven't gotten the nerve to purchase one yet but I am real close. I want the 3k configuration because well, because that is what I want. If I didn't have to pay that much I wouldn't but that is technology for you.

I say buy what makes you happy and don't forget that technology moves to fast to wait. If all you do is wait, you might as well just rent a laptop because I am sure it is just a matter of time until the next ?whatever? comes out that is the most powerful, lightest weight, longest battery device of all time.

I guess people just wanted more.... more power, more ports, more... more... more... and less money. I am having the same mental battle and it is holding up my purchase. I don't need more to do more. Decisions decisions.

MacTheSpoon
Feb 4, 2008, 02:28 PM
I guess it's probably true, a lot of hate for the MBA comes from 12" Powerbook users waiting for a replacement. It seems there's a second group, too, of people who wanted Apple to release something even smaller, a 10" screen size like the Vaio TZ. And then there are people who wanted the equivalent of an Eee PC, something smaller AND cheaper. If Apple had released a laptop to satisfy one of these groups, the other two would scream and complain just as bitterly as they are now.

As it was, Apple introduced a new kind of computer; a wide and light computer (yeah, and thin). So for people who were happy with the Macbook's screen size and footprint, didn't swap batteries, and didn't need all its power, and wished for something lighter, they've got a dream machine.

I'm a former 12" PB owner, and I will get the MBA. It isn't exactly what I wanted, but it's better in some ways than my old PB (screen brightness, battery life); I just wish it were narrower. Still, it's the thing Apple offers now that captures the most of what *I* liked about the 12" PB.

I guess we will have to hope that as Apple grows, it will feel comfortable offering a wider and more varied product line like Sony. Then we can all be happy with Apple equivalents of the Vaio G series, TZ series, and the Asus Eee. Maybe even that elusive Apple mini-tower. :)

ctt1wbw
Feb 4, 2008, 02:29 PM
If you want something smaller, get an HP Scientific Calculator.

azentropy
Feb 4, 2008, 02:31 PM
It isn't that I hate the MBA. It is that I don't agree with the tradeoffs Apple made and it isn't my idea of a true ultraportable.
They made a really thin, lightweight, beautifully designed but very limited notebook.

I'm was willing to trade a 13" LCD for a 12" or 11" LCD and a full size keyboard for a smaller one if it means having a smaller footprint, not just thiner. 12" and 11" LCD are 1280x800 as well now, so you don't lose any resolution, it is just smaller.

I'm was willing to give up some the thinness for a firewire port, a Ethernet port, a security slot and at least enough headroom to fit a dual platter 4200 drive. They still would have kept it at 3lbs or less if they would have used a smaller screen.

Unlike some, I'm was willing to trade some of the speed if Apple went to the ULV processors that could have improved battery life to 7+ hours.

Unlike some, I'm perfectly fine with the loss of an internal optical drive.

They could have done all of that at about the same pricepoint, but that isn't the way they decided to go.

What I hate is this is going to be the only option for those of us who want an ultraportable as I don't see Apple adding yet another design.

I'm a big fan of Apple, I love the OS and have owned over a dozen macs in my 20+ years of being a MACGUY (my license plate btw). But I'm not
real thrilled with the hardware choices Apple has made recently...

Ok, enough complaining about the MBA for now - time to go back to the
Mac Pro forum and complain about the lack of a midrange minitower again! ;-)

markjones05
Feb 4, 2008, 02:34 PM
I've been reading a lot of discussion about the MBA and it appear that there are some people who just want to hate it even before seeing it real life. I just don't get it. I don't see why people need to "warn" or tell someone else why they're not going to buy something.

One person even started several threads on Amazon discussion about it and appears to be obsessively replying and defending their position:

MacBook Air and the real notebook market (http://www.amazon.com/MacBook-the-real-notebook-market/forum/Fx2S4LXAZ56WC57/Tx35J3QI8L5UACJ/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=electronics&cdAnchor=B0006HU4DK&asin=B0006HU4DK&store=electronics)

Here is one guy who posts "a warning" on every single configuration of the MBA on Amazon:

Keep in mind a serious design flaw (http://www.amazon.com/Keep-mind-serious-design-flaw/forum/Fx2308Z8FYOMVL2/Tx2L1WW9AZ34YDY/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=electronics&cdAnchor=B0007OW520&asin=B0007OW520&store=electronics)

I pre-ordered mine from the Applestore on the keynote day, but later changed my mind and decided to save the tax money and order from Amazon prime. I find it funny that the wackos come out whenever Apple has something new, but hardly any bashers for crappy PC laptops.


I'm not particularly fond of it nor do I think I need to see it to make that decision. I'm sure it's really thin and all but in my opinion they sacrificed too much to get it that slim. Might be great for some but I feel its way to confining for the majority.

tstarks33
Feb 4, 2008, 02:36 PM
But, that is the logical and reasonable way of thinking. The MBA wasn't made for everyone. It was designed specifically for a certain use and many who don't fall in that category are upset over it. It's not Apple's fault. I get the feeling people are just mad Apple didn't launch a new laptop THEY could use so they end up bashing the products. Hey, I can't use the MBA...it doesn't fit my lifestyle at all but I don't think it's junk.

And the "this product isn't made for you" IS the right defense for any product. Yes, that's how the world of business works :) You can't please everyone and Apple wasn't trying to with the MBA. Those who cannot see that are just sour.

Very true - you can't please everyone, and indeed, no product tries to please every single consumer. But again, I say it's not a "defense", "reason", "justification", whatever. Say I think the hard drive is too slow - which, according to ars, seems like that is the case. Or, say that the battery is crappy - which, again, seems to be the case. What I am reading on these and other message boards is that the owners/future owners of MBA's defend these issues by saying, "Well, then it's not for you." That, to me, is just ********. We are labeled as "haters" because we are not satisfied by the hard drive, lack of upgradeabiilty, the fact that it's not THAT much smaller than a Macbook, etc etc, but the response is invariably "then it wasn't meant for you." I just think that's a lame response instead of addressing the actual issues mentioned.

Let's say we are discussing the movie "No Country for Old Men." I say, "well, I didn't find it believable that the main character went back to give that man some water." Instead of addressing this, what the MBA Defense Force would answer is, "well then, you are not the intended audience for this movie." You can't cover up the deficiencies of a product by making it's "intended market" narrower and narrower. Before long, the MBA is the best laptop ever created... for those people who wanted a 3 lb, .76 inch thick laptop with no CD drive, full size keyboard, 13.3 inch screen, backlit keyboard, and a 4200 RPM hard drive. For everyone else - hey, you can't criticize the MBA at all, because you are not part of that self-defined market of people who want that exact product. It's just bogus, and honestly, I can't say I've seen it before like I've seen it with MBA defenders.

And I don't even hate the thing! If the SSD version was 2500, I'd be typing on it as we speak :)

Mindflux
Feb 4, 2008, 02:38 PM
And I don't even hate the thing! If the SSD version was 2500, I'd be typing on it as we speak :)

dream on ;)

"typing on it as we speak"..
lolz.

tstarks33
Feb 4, 2008, 02:41 PM
dream on ;)

"typing on it as we speak"..
lolz.

Actually, to be more accurate, if the online apple store wasn't overworked when it was announced, I'd have bought the SSD version. Luckily I had an extra bit of time to think on it, came to my senses, and bought a Black Macbook.

Amuraivel
Feb 4, 2008, 02:43 PM
Some people hate it because it doesn't accomplish anything but be thin.

Features are meagre.

It isn't even as light as some of the lightest ultralights on the market.

Footprint matters more than anything.

Catch
Feb 4, 2008, 02:44 PM
Actually, to be more accurate, if the online apple store wasn't overworked when it was announced, I'd have bought the SSD version. Luckily I had an extra bit of time to think on it, came to my senses, and bought a Black Macbook.

Good for you. Its a great machine and I am sure you will be very happy with it... the MBA just was not for you in the first place! j/k ;)

Regards,

C

Dagless
Feb 4, 2008, 03:06 PM
I don't hate it myself, I just wouldn't buy one. I'm more for features than something being crazily thin, the MB and MBP are more than thin enough for me (and in most setups costs less).

I can see a market for the MBA and I'm certainly not in it.

To be honest I'd rather go for one of them thin Sony laptops. For the first time I prefer their design over Apple's :o

gwangung
Feb 4, 2008, 03:31 PM
This is the typical Macbook Air Defense Force response to any criticism: "It's not for you." Think the product has design deficiencies? Well, there are some people out there who don't think that, and that's the exact market Apple is trying to reach. Couldn't that reason be used to defend *any* product?

No.

But keep trying. It's amusing to see what people think are other people's needs. A lot of times, they're very far off.

NAG
Feb 4, 2008, 03:36 PM
The Macbook Air bashing is almost word for word the same arguments used against the iPod when it launched.

We know how that one turned out.

Now I'm not saying the Macbook Air is going to be the smash hit like the iPod, because lets face it laptops are more expensive than MP3 players (which is all the iPod was back then). Still, it is just the same irrational complaining because Apple released something nice that they don't want.

tstarks33
Feb 4, 2008, 03:54 PM
No.

But keep trying. It's amusing to see what people think are other people's needs. A lot of times, they're very far off.

Very informative post. Thanks for contributing.

stainlessliquid
Feb 4, 2008, 04:18 PM
I think one of the reasons people are pissed at the "crapbook air" is that they were expecting Apple to do something logical for once. Nobody would have been pissed off at a multitouch tablet, or a mid ranged tower.

Apple could have done SO much better. And it pisses people off when they dont get what they want.

Many people find the air ridiculous. It costs as much as a Pro but is so much crappier, and only one USB port makes it virtually unusable for anything besides plane/bus travel. The ultra portable market is a proven failure, Apple cannot "revitalize" the market because it doesnt exist, and they have added nothing new other than throwing OS X in the mix (it is far from the lightest UP too), all theyve done is taken a mm or 2 off at the cost of essential features that other UP's have.

The MBA will probably go the way of the cube. It will sell to a few people but probably not enough to sustain it as a product worth keeping around. The ultra portable market is a dead end and its amazing that Apple was stupid enough to get into it when tablet PC's have so much potential for a non-stylus input method.

The Macbook Air bashing is almost word for word the same arguments used against the iPod when it launched.
Only works with a mac so its doomed to fail? That was the only ipod complaint I know of, and it turned out to be true since the ipod wasnt doing so hot until it came to windows. People didnt hate the ipod, people thought Apple was braindead since so many people wanted one but nobody was going to buy a $1500 computer to use an mp3 player.

Catch
Feb 4, 2008, 04:26 PM
I think one of the reasons people are pissed at the "crapbook air"...

... and thats where you lost me. Well done my friend. I am sure the post was very insightful. :)

Regards,

C

GlossyIsBad4U
Feb 4, 2008, 04:33 PM
"Why do some people appear to HATE the MBA?"

It's has to do with what one gets for the price conflicting with a Mac Addicts lust factor of having the "latest great thing from Apple".

The bar was raised way to far for most people, and in the case of the $3000 MBA version, out of this world insane. One can get a well equipped MBP for that amount and AppleCare!

My personal beef with the MBA is the lack of a matte screen option. Since I get headaches and eyestrain from the glossy versions, it certainly crosses me off the list of potential buyers.

ctt1wbw
Feb 4, 2008, 04:33 PM
You know, if everyone is saying that macbook air is UNUSEABLE because it only has one usb port, how did we live before usb?

cenetti
Feb 4, 2008, 05:00 PM
You know, if everyone is saying that macbook air is UNUSEABLE because it only has one usb port, how did we live before usb?

what kind of question is that?
so we're going backwards, is that it?

its like asking why do we need electricity? people lived without it for thousands of years...eh?

pondie84
Feb 4, 2008, 05:01 PM
I also don't understand where all the rage is coming from. If you don't like it... fine. But why spend hours on end posting the same spiteful comments in every single topic relating to the MBA?

Just ignore the product and focus on something positive. Am I missing something? I mean, I understand posting in the Buying Advice threads to give your opinion on why someone should or shouldn't buy a MBA... but otherwise?

cenetti
Feb 4, 2008, 05:04 PM
I also don't understand where all the rage is coming from. If you don't like it... fine. But why spend hours on end posting the same spiteful comments in every single topic relating to the MBA?

Just ignore the product and focus on something positive. Am I missing something? I mean, I understand posting in the Buying Advice threads to give your opinion on why someone should or shouldn't buy a MBA... but otherwise?

well, mainly because...we have nothing better to do...:eek:
was waiting for a new macbook pro...apple decided to go with this thing called "air"....and kept us waiting.....

as soon as its released...we'll be gone...dont worry....;)

tstarks33
Feb 4, 2008, 06:06 PM
well, mainly because...we have nothing better to do...:eek:
was waiting for a new macbook pro...apple decided to go with this thing called "air"....and kept us waiting.....

as soon as its released...we'll be gone...dont worry....;)

Ha, this is 100% true.

shadowfax
Feb 4, 2008, 07:27 PM
Ha, this is 100% true.

No, it's not. The MBA haters waiting on the MBP update will do one of 2 things:

1. Be satisfied and shut up.
2. Be unimpressed with the MBP update and hate on the MBA *and* the new MBP. No matter how much stuff is in the MBP update, there will be some people in this category...

shadowfax
Feb 4, 2008, 07:33 PM
....bunch of drivel...The ultra portable market is a dead end and its amazing that Apple was stupid enough to get into it when tablet PC's have so much potential for a non-stylus input method.

Only works with a mac so its doomed to fail? That was the only ipod complaint I know of, and it turned out to be true since the ipod wasnt doing so hot until it came to windows. People didnt hate the ipod, people thought Apple was braindead since so many people wanted one but nobody was going to buy a $1500 computer to use an mp3 player.

You assert that the ultra-portable market is a dead end? Is that anything other than your opinion? Back it up. You assert that there is potential in the Tablet PC market, but I have been horribly unimpressed by the Tablet PC market, and therefore I think that it is actually a dead end. But it's all pretensious presumption anyway, so why do I care?

I would imagine that Apple is not in the Tablet PC market yet because they would have to write their own Applications to do all the things that you want in a Tablet PC, in an intuitive way. Or it will just suck. If Apple thought that they had a Tablet PC in a form that was ready to be sold to consumers in a way that would maximize their profit, they would release it. Duh. Econ 101 or something, right?

Your argument boils down to that you *think* the ultraportable market is nonexistent/tiny/dead, and that the tablet PC market has more potential. But you didn't begin to substantiate either one of those claims. So it's just your opinion, and I think it's a rather silly one.

As for responses to the iPod, you ought to remember more than that. The biggest one was "WOW OMG THAT IS SO EXPENSIVE NO1 WILL BUYORZ ITZ!!!" But there were others, like "NOT ENUFF ST0RAGE!one!!!one!" and "WHO RLLY CAREZ ABOUT BEING ABL TO CRRY A BUNCH OF SONGZ IN UR POCKETZ!!!" and other whiney things like that.

AAPL I FING HATE UR FING GUTZ GO SIT ON A MONKY!

Sorry, I'm not projecting them onto you or anything, I am just in a hater-hating frenzy ;)

sushi
Feb 4, 2008, 07:42 PM
The ultra portable market is a dead end and its amazing that Apple was stupid enough to get into it when tablet PC's have so much potential for a non-stylus input method.
Gee, you would never know that here in Japan.

Ultra-portable and light weight laptops are very popular. There are models released here that never make it to the states.

Most businessmen here carry some sort of A4 size bag/briefcase. The MBA will fit nicely into one of them since it is so thin. My guess is that it will sell well here.

tstarks33
Feb 4, 2008, 08:08 PM
You assert that the ultra-portable market is a dead end? Is that anything other than your opinion? Back it up. You assert that there is potential in the Tablet PC market, but I have been horribly unimpressed by the Tablet PC market, and therefore I think that it is actually a dead end. But it's all pretensious presumption anyway, so why do I care?

I would imagine that Apple is not in the Tablet PC market yet because they would have to write their own Applications to do all the things that you want in a Tablet PC, in an intuitive way. Or it will just suck. If Apple thought that they had a Tablet PC in a form that was ready to be sold to consumers in a way that would maximize their profit, they would release it. Duh. Econ 101 or something, right?

Your argument boils down to that you *think* the ultraportable market is nonexistent/tiny/dead, and that the tablet PC market has more potential. But you didn't begin to substantiate either one of those claims. So it's just your opinion, and I think it's a rather silly one.

As for responses to the iPod, you ought to remember more than that. The biggest one was "WOW OMG THAT IS SO EXPENSIVE NO1 WILL BUYORZ ITZ!!!" But there were others, like "NOT ENUFF ST0RAGE!one!!!one!" and "WHO RLLY CAREZ ABOUT BEING ABL TO CRRY A BUNCH OF SONGZ IN UR POCKETZ!!!" and other whiney things like that.

AAPL I FING HATE UR FING GUTZ GO SIT ON A MONKY!

Sorry, I'm not projecting them onto you or anything, I am just in a hater-hating frenzy ;)

Can you provide links to substantiate your assertion that people were saying "AAPL I FING HATE UR FING GUTZ SO SIT ON A MONKY!" and the rest?

Thanks.

:rolleyes:

jonswan
Feb 4, 2008, 08:27 PM
To the OP, the 'hate' you talk about is 99% disappointment. Clearly there are a lot of annoyed people out there wondering what Apple are doing as the MBA is clearly a niche laptop and most definitely way ahead of its time. Most people - like me - I am guessing here - wanted MBP updates with a reintroduction of the 12 inch version. A thinner, lighter 12 inch version of the MBP is what I wanted, but instead we got the MBA, which looks amazing but is thoroughly impractical as an 'only' computer right now. It's shortcomings have been listed ad nauseum. However, I wouldn't put it past Apple to give us that fabled 12 inch MBP ..

To the poster above, Japan is indeed a country full of men with 10-12 inch laptops, but unfortunately the 13.3 inch air still has a huge footprint therefore I don't believe it will be a great success here on account of its size - it just won't go in the bags they carry.

dsnort
Feb 4, 2008, 08:36 PM
I'm was willing to trade a 13" LCD for a 12" or 11" LCD and a full size keyboard for a smaller one if it means having a smaller footprint, not just thiner. 12" and 11" LCD are 1280x800 as well now, so you don't lose any resolution, it is just smaller.

Footprint matters more than anything.

This whole footprint complaint is what perplexes me the most. When I switched my laptop from a 15" Dell to a 13" MacBook, the footprint was the least noticeable difference to me. Riding in my briefcase,( along with my document, folders, and sales manuals), the extra width of the Dell stuck out in front of and behind me, it didn't hinder me in any way. The loss of thickness I noticed, and appreciated. Weight was a toss up, they both weighed about the same.

To be honest I'd rather go for one of them thin Sony laptops. For the first time I prefer their design over Apple's :o

I was eyeing them today at Best Buy. Pretty slick looking!

Unfortunately for me, the switch to Mac was never about the hardware.

Detlev_73
Feb 4, 2008, 08:39 PM
I don't care what the Air haters have to say, the Air is just plain sexy. I was just about to purchase a black Macbook tonight, but I decided that I had to have the Air, after oogling at one for about 20 minutes. Unfortunately, none were in stock. I will wait a few weeks and then get it when they have reached stocked levels, and my tax return is direct deposited. For what I do, web-surfing, Word, Excel, and iLife stuff. The Air is perfect. I don't run Photoshop, and the like, so the Air is a great fit. Steve, you've done it again, buddy. :cool:

quantumbits
Feb 4, 2008, 08:42 PM
Well, I finally saw one in person today. Meh. The excitement lasted all of 10 seconds before my mind converged on one word: gimmick. Does that qualify me as a "hater?"

MazingerZ
Feb 4, 2008, 08:44 PM
Well, I finally saw one in person today. Meh. The excitement lasted all of 10 seconds before my mind converged on one word: gimmick. Does that qualify me as a "hater?"

Nope..you just have different needs than some of us who think this is a great laptop to lug around on trips.

shadowfax
Feb 4, 2008, 08:56 PM
To the poster above, Japan is indeed a country full of men with 10-12 inch laptops, but unfortunately the 13.3 inch air still has a huge footprint therefore I don't believe it will be a great success here on account of its size - it just won't go in the bags they carry.

Really? Is this really true, because this is tripping me out. Where are these people that are running around with, basically, handbags? Seems to me that professionals carry briefcases, the kind you could fit a legal pad (8.5" x 14") or a small portfolio in. As luck would have it, this is pretty close to the footprint of the MBA (8.9" x 12.8"). That seemed to be the whole point why Steve Jobs busted it out of that big "interdepartmental mail" envelope-- because it fits in one like a stack of paper.

That's what's so awesome to me. This is a businessperson's laptop. It's just the right size that you can slide it into a really thin neoprene sleeve and toss it into your average briefcase or satchel, without making it much heavier than it already is. It's an afterthought. I can say that after having had a TiBook for 5 years, a MacBook for 1, and a MacBook Pro for about 6 months, that the TiBook and MBP are very much *not* afterthoughts for carrying with me, and have trouble fitting in anything but backpacks and really big satchels. The MacBook was a lot better, but still thick enough that it took up a significant amount of space (52.63 cu. inches for MBA vs. 123.12 cu. inches for MB, making the MB 134% larger by volume) and heavy enough to make a difference.

I wouldn't say the MB was all that bad, but the Macbook Air has the same footprint as the MB, which is fine for fitting into bags/briefcases, but only takes up 43% of the space in the bag, and weighs 40% less.

But, I have never been to Japan. I am just talking about the bags/briefcases that I have seen my professors carry around campus, and the briefcases that my coworkers and fellow students typically carry, and the stuff I see in the airport. The only numbers I have and I will stand by are my calculations :).

Well, I finally saw one in person today. Meh. The excitement lasted all of 10 seconds before my mind converged on one word: gimmick. Does that qualify me as a "hater?"
What's the gimmick, though? What trick are they trying to pull over our eyes? Is it just that it's not all that thin or light or small as they say, or something else? What were you expecting?

kuwisdelu
Feb 4, 2008, 09:04 PM
Can you provide links to substantiate your assertion that people were saying "AAPL I FING HATE UR FING GUTZ SO SIT ON A MONKY!" and the rest?

Thanks.

:rolleyes:

Not the one you asked, but actually yes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500

And I'm curious about the footprint thing, too. I know there are a few valid reasons for wanting a small footprint, such as more comfort room on an airline tray, but as far as portability goes...honestly, who carries a laptop bag or briefcase that won't carry something 13.3"? If I stuck a thick but 12" MBP in my briefcase right now, I wouldn't notice any difference when I'm carrying it around from the MacBook that currently resides in it. But a skinny MacBook Air? I can fit in textbook or another spiral notebook with the extra room and weight-loss.

pondie84
Feb 4, 2008, 09:05 PM
Wasn't the iPod called a gimmick to start with too? I mean, it wasn't really a completely new thing, it was expensive and a fashion item etc. Even today they're not really a necessity, people just want them. I just don't understand people's strong negative reactions.

After all that's what this thread is about... it's not saying we should love the Air. It's just wondering why people react so strongly about it. To me that's the most baffling thing. I find it amazing that people can get so angry about a notebook.

stainlessliquid
Feb 4, 2008, 10:32 PM
I hear people talking about weight all the time. You can buy UP's that weigh practically half as much as the MBA. Nothing new to see here, next argument.

Japan likes small stuff, thats true, but in Japan you can get a wide variety of Vaio's and other computers that are both smaller and lighter than the MBA. Why would they give a flying crap about the Air? This is like the iphone in Japan. They dont care, they have better options already, why should they take a step backwards? If the MBA sucks the most anywhere, its going to be in Japan since theres more competition there.

There are people out there who will complain about everything. I can pull some quotes out of my ass and say everyone hated the ipod because it didnt squirt milk out of its usb cord. But by far the ipod was highly sought after, and people complained that it was only on mac. You cant compare the macbook air to the ipod, people wanted and were prepared to pay for an ipod but couldnt because they didnt have a mac, practically nobody is willing to pay for an MBA. The iPod was the first small and elegant mp3 player and was exactly what people were waiting for in an mp3 player, the MBA is neither what people have been waiting for or the first of anything.

I'll say it again, people are mad at the MBA because they didnt get what they wanted. People get mad when they are disappointed, and the MBA is a massive disappointment to a lot of people who were hoping for something they could use or something new and innovative. There are people who actually like the MBA and think its "perfect" but those people are an extremely small amount compared to the disappointed people.
You assert that the ultra-portable market is a dead end? Is that anything other than your opinion? Back it up. You assert that there is potential in the Tablet PC market, but I have been horribly unimpressed by the Tablet PC market, and therefore I think that it is actually a dead end. But it's all pretensious presumption anyway, so why do I care?
If the ultra portable market is such a success then maybe you can provide me with some evidence that the UP notebooks sell well? I have yet to see a single person with an UP notebook and I have yet to see a single person recommend a UP notebook or consider buying one. They sell EXTREMELY bad compared to regular notebooks.

The tablet PC market sucks right now because they have nothing good to offer. Thats why I said potential. A small multitouch tablet pc would be fantastic, one that doesnt need to use a stylus and allows you to type right on the screen with a virtual keyboard using your fingers. Its current form is cumbersome and pointless, it is waiting for a device to come along and launch it into a success. Apple needs to get their head out of their ass and remember why things like the ipod were so successful.

Apple should be aiming at markets with potential and doing something innovative that the market needs. Look at the EEE PC, that thing is an extraordinary success because they did something NEW. The MBA is not new, it is exactly the same as every other failed UP, they tried nothing innovative and followed exactly what every other failure has done.

... and thats where you lost me. Well done my friend. I am sure the post was very insightful. :)

Regards,

C
You need to know the difference between words with and without quotes then. "Crapbook air" is what everyone is calling it, since so many people think its crap.

Nilonym
Feb 4, 2008, 10:49 PM
Apple should be aiming at markets with potential and doing something innovative that the market needs. Look at the EEE PC, that thing is an extraordinary success because they did something NEW. The MBA is not new, it is exactly the same as every other failed UP, they tried nothing innovative and followed exactly what every other failure has done.

You need to know the difference between words with and without quotes then. "Crapbook air" is what everyone is calling it, since so many people think its crap.

Um, yeah... Anyway, wow, my new MBA is damn sexy, and I'm a happy camper. Thanks, Apple, for making something I can be excited about, instead of resting on your butt and regurgitating old designs!

By the way, I think "MacBook Flair" is a much more sophisticated dig than "CrapBook Air". Plus, it has one more letter, which I guess some people might highly value.

ozziegn
Feb 4, 2008, 11:00 PM
Well, I finally saw one in person today. Meh. The excitement lasted all of 10 seconds before my mind converged on one word: gimmick. Does that qualify me as a "hater?"

yup, you are officially a MBA hater. be prepared to be flamed seven different ways to Sunday. :p

SteveSparks
Feb 4, 2008, 11:18 PM
If you want something smaller, get an HP Scientific Calculator.

The 10C, I think was the best ever made. Wish they still sold it.

ShoopaMac
Feb 4, 2008, 11:57 PM
yeh but we all have them already it's like one more iPod usb cable geez

maybe some mac user groups of the bricks and mortar variety have a trading table! dock adapters, remotes and etc.


for many this will be their first mac/apple product~

meagain
Feb 5, 2008, 12:13 AM
No, it's not. The MBA haters waiting on the MBP update will do one of 2 things:

1. Be satisfied and shut up.
2. Be unimpressed with the MBP update and hate on the MBA *and* the new MBP. No matter how much stuff is in the MBP update, there will be some people in this category...

I didn't read the whole thread as I already formulated my answer.
The above quote is exactly what I was going to say. I believe it to be true. Sadly.

ShoopaMac
Feb 5, 2008, 12:26 AM
Not a hater,
Love macs, obviously,
But I must say,

I don't mind the 13 in screen, I mind the thick rails around the screen.
I don't mind the thin, I mind the un-reliable 1.8" 4200rpm HDD to achieve it.
I don't mind the less ports, I so! mind the non-TRADITIONAL battery, I so! mind.

I think Jobs is loosing it or is he so evil-marketing scheme-so hard to resist... It's probably the latter.

It's an unfair situation, I love their design, somewhat competitive engineering is okay, but hate their IDEAs--NOTION to dominate weak hearts like mind to desire beautifuls-shallow surface... Why can't I meet beautiful inside AND out? why?

I wouldn't have minded a much more stable 32gb NAND for base model just for OS and few essential softwares. I can access or setup servers... wishful thinking...

semiconstructiv
Feb 5, 2008, 12:40 AM
ok..... what i've been reading in this thread is non-sense seriously. a ultra-portable pro? are you kidding? is it really that necessary I mean come on. why would you want a 12inch laptop to have that kind of features it's not like you will be editing in final cut pro or designing on a screen that small. it seems pointless. it's purpose is to be writing documents and browsing the net basic functions and 1.8 ghz dual core is more than enough. and don't give me a bs excuse for needing over 2.2 ghz there is no point. and if you need more then get a better computer geez. mbp or a mb is fine. but, "oh no 4-5 pounds is too much" get over it. it's life deal with it.

btw, if the weight really does bother you i'd recommend you going to a gym.

shadowfax
Feb 5, 2008, 01:41 AM
I hear people talking about weight all the time. You can buy UP's that weigh practically half as much as the MBA. Nothing new to see here, next argument.
Not running OS X, not with a big LED-Backlit display, or a full-size keyboard, and not with a dual-core C2Duo.
There are people out there who will complain about everything. I can pull some quotes out of my ass and say everyone hated the ipod because it didnt squirt milk out of its usb cord. But by far the ipod was highly sought after, and people complained that it was only on mac. You cant compare the macbook air to the ipod, people wanted and were prepared to pay for an ipod but couldnt because they didnt have a mac, practically nobody is willing to pay for an MBA. The iPod was the first small and elegant mp3 player and was exactly what people were waiting for in an mp3 player, the MBA is neither what people have been waiting for or the first of anything.

I'll say it again, people are mad at the MBA because they didnt get what they wanted. People get mad when they are disappointed, and the MBA is a massive disappointment to a lot of people who were hoping for something they could use or something new and innovative. There are people who actually like the MBA and think its "perfect" but those people are an extremely small amount compared to the disappointed people.
man, the sections I bolded... classics.

MacBook Air orders have been very strong
Link. (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/22/apple-1q-2008-results-record-1-58-billion-profit/)

If the ultra portable market is such a success then maybe you can provide me with some evidence that the UP notebooks sell well? I have yet to see a single person with an UP notebook and I have yet to see a single person recommend a UP notebook or consider buying one. They sell EXTREMELY bad compared to regular notebooks.

The tablet PC market sucks right now because they have nothing good to offer. Thats why I said potential. A small multitouch tablet pc would be fantastic, one that doesnt need to use a stylus and allows you to type right on the screen with a virtual keyboard using your fingers. Its current form is cumbersome and pointless, it is waiting for a device to come along and launch it into a success. Apple needs to get their head out of their ass and remember why things like the ipod were so successful.
So... the UP market is slouching... and the Tablet PC market is slouching... but, the UP market is a dead end, and the Tablet PC market has potential. I disagree, I think that's ridiculous. I would posit this instead: They both have a TON of potential. I would say that the trouble with the UP market is that it's full of a bunch of machines that trade power for smallness in a big way, or laptops that are clunky and crowded in their shrinkage, that tried to do too much. I think there is a big opportunity for a laptop that has the thinness, the lightness, but packs a significant punch, all the while being tolerable to use on a day-to-day basis, and pleasant to look at--something people would envy, like an iPod for the UP. I think the MBA is a move in the right direction. It's a laptop that I think is nice, but not quite for me yet. But I am extremely excited about where it will go in the next year. I think the MBA is going to grow the UP market by making people want a UP, the way I do now, they way I hated smartphones till the iPhone came out.

The Tablet PC market also desperately needs something new. I think it would have been awesome if Apple had done a tablet. Evidence has long pointed to the idea that they have been working on it. The iPhone was spun off of Tablet development several years ago. They are probably working on it still. It's just not ready to release yet. That doesn't mean never, and it doesn't mean that it's a mistake to make the MBA. What gives? your argument hinges on the idea that the MBA and the Apple Tablet are mutually exclusive products, but they aren't.

Apple should be aiming at markets with potential and doing something innovative that the market needs. Look at the EEE PC, that thing is an extraordinary success because they did something NEW. The MBA is not new, it is exactly the same as every other failed UP, they tried nothing innovative and followed exactly what every other failure has done.rotflol!

yup, you are officially a MBA hater. be prepared to be flamed seven different ways to Sunday. :p

well, that seems to be a 2 way street. But I would go for more like "49 ways from Sunday" instead. ;)

The 10C, I think was the best ever made. Wish they still sold it.

I'm actually a TI-ho. I love my TI-89 to death, but it's the devil I know. It's also the reason I have such a poor grip on calculus in my brain, too, because it makes it so easy to plug in rather advanced symbolic functions and derive/integrate them...

ok..... what i've been reading in this thread is non-sense seriously. a ultra-portable pro? are you kidding? is it really that necessary I mean come on. why would you want a 12inch laptop to have that kind of features it's not like you will be editing in final cut pro or designing on a screen that small. it seems pointless. it's purpose is to be writing documents and browsing the net basic functions and 1.8 ghz dual core is more than enough. and don't give me a bs excuse for needing over 2.2 ghz there is no point. and if you need more then get a better computer geez. mbp or a mb is fine. but, "oh no 4-5 pounds is too much" get over it. it's life deal with it.

btw, if the weight really does bother you i'd recommend you going to a gym.
rotflol!

FWIW, when I said the MBA was a pro machine, I qualified that:
The Air is a Pro machine. It's just Pro in the sense of "I slide this into my briefcase, where it adds about as much weight as a small portfolio, and go," rather than "I render movie scenes on the way too work with my laptop."
More careful reading on your part before you accuse me of speaking nonsense is in order. Unless you are talking about someone else.

jotamurray
Feb 5, 2008, 01:52 AM
People keep talking about mac -good or bad- and its come down to free publicity. It's like the iphone: the guarantee void if unlocked publicity has not stopped people from buying it but every week sales are increasing.
I would never buy the MBA only cause I prefer carrying everything on me at all times, but I think its great for ultraportable users.

j26
Feb 5, 2008, 02:09 AM
I find these threads entertaining.

The basis of this and dozens of other threads seems to be "If you don't like the MBA shut up, you're poor/tight/envious/stupid/grouchy/impotent/etc and your opinions don't count"

Just a little newsflash - this is a discussion forum. Yes, discussion. That means people are free to post their opinions, positive or negative.

If people have wants/needs that weren't satisfied, they are free to say this.


btw I like the MBA, but not enough to buy one. Am I a hater?

pesc
Feb 5, 2008, 02:33 AM
ok..... what i've been reading in this thread is non-sense seriously. a ultra-portable pro? are you kidding? is it really that necessary I mean come on. why would you want a 12inch laptop to have that kind of features it's not like you will be editing in final cut pro or designing on a screen that small. it seems pointless.

We are not kidding and Apple did make a 12" PB three years ago. That's what I use as my main machine. I have three desks (on three locations) setup with screens larger than a 17" MBP. That's what I connect to when doing real work, such as editing video. The 12" screen is for my daily two hour train rides or longer travel.

Are YOU kidding? Do YOU use the screen and keyboard of the laptop during daily work at your desk?

pesc
Feb 5, 2008, 02:48 AM
This whole footprint complaint is what perplexes me the most...

It's central in my MBA hatred ;)

When I switched from a Dell latitude L400 to a 12" PB G4 three years ago the PB was heavier (my dell didn't have an optical drive), thicker, and had a larger footprint. I was concerned about this, but the PB did give me so much more power so I'm very happy with it. I use it as my main machine and it is always in my backpack.

I don't own a car but travel a lot on trains and sometimes on long flights.

What perplexes me is that laptops are going larger and larger over the years. I wouldn't even think of buying a 13" MB because it is so big, so you could guess how I think about the other Apple laptop line. (A 17" inch laptop? *Boggle*)

So when Apple re-enters the portable laptop market we get a MBA with the same footprint as the MB?!?!? Ridiculous!

I rarely carry any papers or books in my backpack. All documents I use are in the computer.

Being thin does very little for me. Footprint matters more.

I'm not living in the USA. Is that the rub?

http://mbp12.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9

weckart
Feb 5, 2008, 03:48 AM
I use a 17 inch G5 MPB at home.

Impressed. :eek: I thought those weren't being released until next Tuesday.

The ultra portable market is a proven failure.


If the ultra portable market is such a success then maybe you can provide me with some evidence that the UP notebooks sell well? I have yet to see a single person with an UP notebook and I have yet to see a single person recommend a UP notebook or consider buying one. They sell EXTREMELY bad compared to regular notebooks.

Some people have clearly been living under rocks the last few months or so. If UPs are a proven failure and not selling then why is ASUS struggling to meet demand for its UP? Why is its UP in the top ten selling laptops?

Half a million sold in just a handful of countries it has been launched in since October and projected to sell 5 million this year once production has been ramped up. These sell so badly that they are being sold at a premium on ebay.

Even Amazon is selling these hand over fist

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/all

shadowfax
Feb 5, 2008, 04:16 AM
btw I like the MBA, but not enough to buy one. Am I a hater?
not a MBA hater, just a hater ;)

shadowfax
Feb 5, 2008, 04:24 AM
Even Amazon is selling these hand over fist

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/all

Man, even the MBA holds #30 (1.6/80GB) and #72 (1.8/64GB).

And you know, I didn't see any Tablet PCs, other than the nokia "Portable Internet Tablets," which look more like the iPhone than a Tablet PC, and this (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VGN-UX380N-Laptop-Processor-Business/dp/B000MJ01LW/ref=pd_ts_pc_71?ie=UTF8&s=pc) horrifying and horrifyingly expensive device.

a number of "ultraportable" laptops in the top 100, and not a single Tablet PC. Nice.

cenetti
Feb 5, 2008, 12:46 PM
Man, even the MBA holds #30 (1.6/80GB) and #72 (1.8/64GB).

And you know, I didn't see any Tablet PCs, other than the nokia "Portable Internet Tablets," which look more like the iPhone than a Tablet PC, and this (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VGN-UX380N-Laptop-Processor-Business/dp/B000MJ01LW/ref=pd_ts_pc_71?ie=UTF8&s=pc) horrifying and horrifyingly expensive device.

a number of "ultraportable" laptops in the top 100, and not a single Tablet PC. Nice.

sigh!!!
13.3 inch screen is NOT ULTRAPORTABLE....NOT...:rolleyes:
go pick a sony TZ and see what an ultra-portable looks like.....
business people are buying those like hot cakes....because ITS SMALL!
not because its THIN!

I had this discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.."air" is NOT portable...end of story...;)

MazingerZ
Feb 5, 2008, 12:51 PM
sigh!!!
13.3 inch screen is NOT ULTRAPORTABLE....NOT...:rolleyes:
go pick a sony TZ and see what an ultra-portable looks like.....
business people are buying those like hot cakes....because ITS SMALL!
not because its THIN!

I had this discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.."air" is NOT portable...end of story...;)


I'm glad you and your co-workers have come to an executive decision on what an ultra portable is...now go away! :p

ctt1wbw
Feb 5, 2008, 02:55 PM
sigh!!!
13.3 inch screen is NOT ULTRAPORTABLE....NOT...:rolleyes:
go pick a sony TZ and see what an ultra-portable looks like.....
business people are buying those like hot cakes....because ITS SMALL!
not because its THIN!

I had this discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.."air" is NOT portable...end of story...;)


So the smaller the screen, the better? What about Windows Vista on a calculator? That would be the mostest awesomest ultraportable in teh world!

ctt1wbw
Feb 5, 2008, 02:56 PM
Okay, what about this:

A 12" portable that weighs *hypothetically* 75 pounds versus a 3 pound 13" widescreen. Is the 12" more portable because it fits a few people's definition on an "ultra portable" just because it has a smaller screen?

Sweetbike40
Feb 5, 2008, 03:09 PM
I'd imagine anything smaller would be difficult to type on especially for a big guy or anyone with big hands. The widscreen (regular footprint) is good to keep in a "ultra-portable" yet it's thin and very light. I'd imagine it would fit in many nice bags and you would barely know your carrying it.

Tosser
Feb 5, 2008, 03:13 PM
Playground psychology 101; sour grapes. I bet if you presented any hater with a free MBA, they'd gush.

Yup. I could sell it and get something neat. Does it come with a receipt?

stainlessliquid
Feb 5, 2008, 05:29 PM
Impressed. :eek: I thought those weren't being released until next Tuesday.





Some people have clearly been living under rocks the last few months or so. If UPs are a proven failure and not selling then why is ASUS struggling to meet demand for its UP? Why is its UP in the top ten selling laptops?

Half a million sold in just a handful of countries it has been launched in since October and projected to sell 5 million this year once production has been ramped up. These sell so badly that they are being sold at a premium on ebay.

Even Amazon is selling these hand over fist

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/all

I already said the EEE is an extraordinary success. But dont classify it as a UP. It is a new breed of laptop, like half UMPC and half UPPC. And you managed to prove my previous point. EEE is doing so extremely well because it did something new and fixed what was wrong with the UP market, it gave people what they wanted. A UP is not meant to replace your main computer, so why price it like one? The EEE did everything right, it made a compact ultra small notebook and priced it so low that the mainstream could afford it as a compliment to their main computer. The MBA did absolutely nothing at all like the EEE, it managed to do the complete opposite.

dsnort
Feb 5, 2008, 06:05 PM
We are not kidding and Apple did make a 12" PB three years ago. That's what I use as my main machine. I have three desks (on three locations) setup with screens larger than a 17" MBP. That's what I connect to when doing real work, such as editing video. The 12" screen is for my daily two hour train rides or longer travel.

So you're saying the 12" screen is alright for a short train ride, but you switch to something bigger as soon as you get the chance!

Are YOU kidding? Do YOU use the screen and keyboard of the laptop during daily work at your desk?

No, I'm not kidding. As a "Road Warrior", ( gads I hate that phrase), I'm at a new desk almost every night and every day. I've found the 13.3" footprint to be a good compromise between portability and usability. I've at some of the "ultra portables". No way I'm staring at that screen or pecking at those keys trying to write a proposal.


I had this discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.."air" is NOT portable...end of story...;)

I had a discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.... you and your co-workers don't get a vote.... end of story:rolleyes::eek::D

NAG
Feb 5, 2008, 06:07 PM
Make a great looking laptop that was super thin, has a full keyboard, and a good sized screen so that you can do actual work on it rather an oversized PDA?

See, the name game can go both ways.

Eee is good for some people. The Macbook Air is good for some people. They are not diametrically opposed. Just because you like one doesn't mean the other one sucks. Get over yourself.

kuwisdelu
Feb 5, 2008, 07:30 PM
What the MBA haters don't realize when faced with the "it's not for you" argument is that it both implies that there ARE people for whom it's perfectly useful and it's a recognition that people do have DIFFERENT needs.

I have no trouble with those disappointed with the MBA because it's not what they were hoping for. However, I don't understand the MBA haters who say that it's a terrible laptop because of it. They refuse to realize that their needs aren't everyone's needs. Some people want a larger footprint because they find the 12" and less screen size restrictive and the small keyboards difficult. The MBA is perfect for some people. I have yet to see any say the MBA is a bad computer without resorting to either insulting its specs (which are quite good for its size) or saying "I need this, I need that." Yes, you may need that, but the MBA is for people who need the other thing.

We have different needs! Hence different laptops! That's really all there is to it.

semiconstructiv
Feb 5, 2008, 07:36 PM
Not running OS X, not with a big LED-Backlit display, or a full-size keyboard, and not with a dual-core C2Duo.

man, the sections I bolded... classics.


Link. (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/22/apple-1q-2008-results-record-1-58-billion-profit/)


So... the UP market is slouching... and the Tablet PC market is slouching... but, the UP market is a dead end, and the Tablet PC market has potential. I disagree, I think that's ridiculous. I would posit this instead: They both have a TON of potential. I would say that the trouble with the UP market is that it's full of a bunch of machines that trade power for smallness in a big way, or laptops that are clunky and crowded in their shrinkage, that tried to do too much. I think there is a big opportunity for a laptop that has the thinness, the lightness, but packs a significant punch, all the while being tolerable to use on a day-to-day basis, and pleasant to look at--something people would envy, like an iPod for the UP. I think the MBA is a move in the right direction. It's a laptop that I think is nice, but not quite for me yet. But I am extremely excited about where it will go in the next year. I think the MBA is going to grow the UP market by making people want a UP, the way I do now, they way I hated smartphones till the iPhone came out.

The Tablet PC market also desperately needs something new. I think it would have been awesome if Apple had done a tablet. Evidence has long pointed to the idea that they have been working on it. The iPhone was spun off of Tablet development several years ago. They are probably working on it still. It's just not ready to release yet. That doesn't mean never, and it doesn't mean that it's a mistake to make the MBA. What gives? your argument hinges on the idea that the MBA and the Apple Tablet are mutually exclusive products, but they aren't.
rotflol!



well, that seems to be a 2 way street. But I would go for more like "49 ways from Sunday" instead. ;)



I'm actually a TI-ho. I love my TI-89 to death, but it's the devil I know. It's also the reason I have such a poor grip on calculus in my brain, too, because it makes it so easy to plug in rather advanced symbolic functions and derive/integrate them...


rotflol!

FWIW, when I said the MBA was a pro machine, I qualified that:

More careful reading on your part before you accuse me of speaking nonsense is in order. Unless you are talking about someone else.


talking to someone else ;D

chutzpah
Feb 5, 2008, 08:46 PM
The reason some people dislike the air is because, yes, it doesn't suit their needs, but it still looks great while (not) doing so.

The reason others hate it is because the design cuts some serious corners for very little improvement and provides a good amount of fuel to further the criticism of apple becoming a money-hoarding monopoly as of late.

People can marvel all they want the the thin look of the machine, but the fact is, it's not .1 inches thin. It's really just three quarters of an inch thick, because apple wanted to give the appearance of it being incredibly thin. Really, what is that tapering doing for you when the computer is just sitting on a table?

When you do that, you compromise volume, and in turn you're left with a large footprint. The volume they're omitting to keep that thin appearance is volume that could be better used in a battery or faster components, or to make it even thinner overall by spreading the components out, or just make the thing cheaper overall.

That tapering also meant apple needed to add a flip down port thing, which for a real road warrior means a lot of wear and tear. What's the use in advertising the no moving parts inside angle when there's an easily bumped, extremely vulnerable port ledge on the computer?

And back to the footprint, does it really need to be so wide and deep? You could save more than an inch off the width and still keep that full size keyboard. The great thing about that 12" powerbook was it was the size of an 8.5 by 11 piece of paper ó give the air a slightly smaller widescreen, and you'd still be able to keep those dimensions easily. Probably still thinner than it is now, given all that tapering going on.

Apple's going in the right direction with getting rid of the optical drive; however, this should open up more windows for a better design, one that doesn't compromise on features like the air does now. To be a laptop without an optical drive, the air should have a longer lasting battery, a smaller footprint, durable ports, and at the very least, varying levels of storage configuration.

If the air is truly meant to be a companion computer, it doesn't need to blaze new raw computing power trails. It should be able to browse the internet, run office, tinker with photoshop, play itunes, and edit photos; things the average user would do with it. As a student, who doesn't need to be editing video and rendering things (macbook pros are for that), I'd benefit a lot from an cheaper ultraportable. So would every other student, frequent flyer, businessman, lawyer, mom, and grandparent on the face of the earth.

Right now the air fills some void in the mac lineup that nobody is asking for; an overpriced, underpowered, lightweight, attention grabbing laptop. Form far, far over funching. Of course people are going to be pissed.

MazingerZ
Feb 5, 2008, 08:53 PM
The reason some people dislike the air is because, yes, it doesn't suit their needs, but it still looks great while (not) doing so.

The reason others hate it is because the design cuts some serious corners for very little improvement and provides a good amount of fuel to further the criticism of apple becoming a money-hoarding monopoly as of late.

People can marvel all they want the the thin look of the machine, but the fact is, it's not .1 inches thin. It's really just three quarters of an inch thick, because apple wanted to give the appearance of it being incredibly thin. Really, what is that tapering doing for you when the computer is just sitting on a table?

When you do that, you compromise volume, and in turn you're left with a large footprint. The volume they're omitting to keep that thin appearance is volume that could be better used in a battery or faster components, or to make it even thinner overall by spreading the components out, or just make the thing cheaper overall.

That tapering also meant apple needed to add a flip down port thing, which for a real road warrior means a lot of wear and tear. What's the use in advertising the no moving parts inside angle when there's an easily bumped, extremely vulnerable port ledge on the computer?

And back to the footprint, does it really need to be so wide and deep? You could save more than an inch off the width and still keep that full size keyboard. The great thing about that 12" powerbook was it was the size of an 8.5 by 11 piece of paper ó give the air a slightly smaller widescreen, and you'd still be able to keep those dimensions easily. Probably still thinner than it is now, given all that tapering going on.

Apple's going in the right direction with getting rid of the optical drive; however, this should open up more windows for a better design, one that doesn't compromise on features like the air does now. To be a laptop without an optical drive, the air should have a longer lasting battery, a smaller footprint, durable ports, and at the very least, varying levels of storage configuration.

If the air is truly meant to be a companion computer, it doesn't need to blaze new raw computing power trails. It should be able to browse the internet, run office, tinker with photoshop, play itunes, and edit photos; things the average user would do with it. As a student, who doesn't need to be editing video and rendering things (macbook pros are for that), I'd benefit a lot from an cheaper ultraportable. So would every other student, frequent flyer, businessman, lawyer, mom, and grandparent on the face of the earth.

Right now the air fills some void in the mac lineup that nobody is asking for; an overpriced, underpowered, lightweight, attention grabbing laptop. Form far, far over funching. Of course people are going to be pissed.

So in summary, you can't afford one? :p

AppleIntelRock
Feb 5, 2008, 09:01 PM
There were a host of negative iPhone and iPod comments at/before their release as well... look where those two products are now :rolleyes:

Honestly, the Macbook Air is Apple's best notebook to date. I always missed the 12" Powerbook... I don't any longer. It isn't for everyone, but neither is the Macbook or Macbook Pro. I think Apple's has a complete notebook line- finally.

chutzpah
Feb 5, 2008, 09:01 PM
I'd pay my entire tuition for a smaller footprint

duffyanneal
Feb 5, 2008, 09:09 PM
I'd pay my entire tuition for a smaller footprint

Here you go (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding). Works for the Chinese. :eek:

kuwisdelu
Feb 5, 2008, 09:10 PM
I'd pay my entire tuition for a smaller footprint

:eek: Why? All of those wanting a small footprint always say it's so important without telling us why they need it. I've explained plenty of times why thinness and weight are important to me and footprint doesn't make a difference, and I've heard one or two anecdotes from people who like footprint, but most people who talk about it never mention why.

So, not out of confrontation or hostility, but out of curiosity, why?

duffyanneal
Feb 5, 2008, 09:10 PM
sigh!!!
13.3 inch screen is NOT ULTRAPORTABLE....NOT...:rolleyes:
go pick a sony TZ and see what an ultra-portable looks like.....
business people are buying those like hot cakes....because ITS SMALL!
not because its THIN!

I had this discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.."air" is NOT portable...end of story...;)

Yawn..been there, done that, sold it.

Shannighan
Feb 5, 2008, 09:12 PM
Impressed. :eek: I thought those weren't being released until next Tuesday.





Some people have clearly been living under rocks the last few months or so. If UPs are a proven failure and not selling then why is ASUS struggling to meet demand for its UP? Why is its UP in the top ten selling laptops?

Half a million sold in just a handful of countries it has been launched in since October and projected to sell 5 million this year once production has been ramped up. These sell so badly that they are being sold at a premium on ebay.

Even Amazon is selling these hand over fist

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/all

because those are only $400

diabolic
Feb 5, 2008, 09:14 PM
I'd pay my entire tuition for a smaller footprint

If the screen and keyboard were smaller, they would have lost 2 sales from me.


Right now the air fills some void in the mac lineup that nobody is asking for; an overpriced, underpowered, lightweight, attention grabbing laptop. Form far, far over funching. Of course people are going to be pissed.

While it's nice to assume everyone wants what you do, it's probably not true.

kuwisdelu
Feb 5, 2008, 09:15 PM
People can marvel all they want the the thin look of the machine, but the fact is, it's not .1 inches thin. It's really just three quarters of an inch thick, because apple wanted to give the appearance of it being incredibly thin. Really, what is that tapering doing for you when the computer is just sitting on a table?

I was under the impression it's not supposed to do anything when your computer is sitting on a table. It's for when you're carrying it. As I see it, the MacBook Air is the perfect laptop if you're someone who wants to toss it in your bag, forget you're carrying it, and then when you take it out and work on it, not even notice you're using a subnotebook, because it seems like a regular one.

Maybe some people want their laptop to feel tiny subnotebook when they're actually using it. But I think the MacBook Air is for people who want to feel like they're using a real laptop when they're using it, and don't want to notice they're even carrying anything when it's in their bag. And, personally, I think that's a pretty worthy idea.

loghyr
Feb 5, 2008, 09:22 PM
:eek: Why? All of those wanting a small footprint always say it's so important without telling us why they need it.

For me it is because the smaller footprint connotates lighter and more portable.

Perhaps I also associate higher quality parts because you have to get them working in a smaller form factor.

I've got a 10.6" Fujistsu Lifebook with a keyboard almost as large as the MBA one. My large hands fit it okay.

While I am a strong proponent of a smaller footprint, I did buy the MBA. And it looks huge to me.

But I can see it being the computer I sit in front of all day - it should run circles around my Lifebook.

and don't want to notice they're even carrying anything when it's in their bag.

Agreed, between the notebook and the accessories, I do not want to feel that weight on my shoulders.

And I don't want a bunch of stuff in my luggage, just in case.

Sweetbike40
Feb 5, 2008, 09:30 PM
So in summary, you can't afford one? :p

Why a comment like this? I guess there are just a bunch of 12 year olds on here. Maybe children with wealthy parents. That poster made some good points and it has nothing to do with if someone can afford it or not!!!!!!!!! I can't STAND that come back!!!!!!!!!!

MazingerZ
Feb 5, 2008, 09:32 PM
Why a comment like this? I guess there are just a bunch of 12 year olds on here. Maybe children with wealthy parents. That poster made some good points and it has nothing to do with if someone can afford it or not!!!!!!!!! I can't STAND that come back!!!!!!!!!!

Lighten up Francis! :eek:

SteveSparks
Feb 5, 2008, 09:32 PM
I had a discussion with my co-workers....we all agreed.... you and your co-workers don't get a vote.... end of story:rolleyes::eek::D

Best Comment of the Day:rolleyes:

kuwisdelu
Feb 5, 2008, 09:35 PM
For me it is because the smaller footprint connotates lighter and more portable.

Perhaps I also associate higher quality parts because you have to get them working in a smaller form factor.

I've got a 10.6" Fujistsu Lifebook with a keyboard almost as large as the MBA one. My large hands fit it okay.

While I am a strong proponent of a smaller footprint, I did buy the MBA. And it looks huge to me.

But I can see it being the computer I sit in front of all day - it should run circles around my Lifebook.

Hmm. I don't think I could work with a smaller screen than my 13" MacBook. Since I have to carry my notebooks and sometimes a textbook or two to my classes anyway, I need to carry a bag that's big enough for those, so anything smaller won't really make a difference, but something as thin as the MBA could allow me to fit an extra notebook or textbook, and/or make my shoulder-load a little easier on the mile walk to campus.

Macintosh Man
Feb 5, 2008, 09:43 PM
It's very simple. MBA are hated because they are an OVER priced, stripped down version of the MacBook. End of story.

As to MacBooks being heavy? What is that, some kind of corny joke? If some of you here really feel that way, I suggest you hurry up and join your nearest Bally's Total Fitness or 24 hr Fitness gyms. End of story.

NAG
Feb 5, 2008, 09:46 PM
So again, you hate it because you can't buy one. Nice logic. Going to hate good food because you can't afford to eat it all the time too?

TatsuTerror
Feb 5, 2008, 09:53 PM
For everyone that is bagging on the MBA because you don't think it's an ultraportable -- think different. Apple has redefined the meaning of ultraportable as a lightweight, powerful (compared to many others), and sexy machine with an amazing backlit keyboard, track pad, and 13" screen. The price is fair, look at others in its class - wait, there are none! Nobody's packed this much punch into something so light before.

Why do you need an 11" or 12" over a 13" with a wide bezel? In my opinion, it's the weight that matters.

TatsuTerror
Feb 5, 2008, 09:54 PM
It's very simple. MBA are hated because they are an OVER priced, stripped down version of the MacBook. End of story.

As to MacBooks being heavy? What is that, some kind of corny joke? If some of you here really feel that way, I suggest you hurry up and join your nearest Bally's Total Fitness or 24 hr Fitness gyms. End of story.And I suggest that you go to an Apple store and check out both first hand, the difference is astounding. Specs on paper don't translate directly to the real world, the 2lbs makes a huge difference.

kuwisdelu
Feb 5, 2008, 09:55 PM
It's very simple. MBA are hated because they are an OVER priced, stripped down version of the MacBook. End of story.

As to MacBooks being heavy? What is that, some kind of corny joke? If some of you here really feel that way, I suggest you hurry up and join your nearest Bally's Total Fitness or 24 hr Fitness gyms. End of story.

I can see why you would think that. It's a perfectly valid point.

But I just don't see why it's a reason to hate a computer. Now if a MacBook Air personally insulted your wife, or something....

It's not overpriced compared to other ultraportables. It's an expensive market. Some will say it doesn't have enough "features" or it's "too big" to be considered a "true" ultraportable. That's just silly. It's more powerful than lots of the ultraportables out there, and it makes different compromises. Compromises some people think are the right ones and some people think are the wrong ones. The people who like the trade-offs it makes buy it--as many people have--and the people who don't like it don't buy it.

Oh wait, the people who don't like it insult it endlessly for fitting someone else's needs instead of their own. I forgot.

Oh, and I'm not saying any of that because I'm rich or anything. There's no way I could afford one now. I thought it was overpriced, too, at first, but then I realized how much technology went into making it that small and how expensive other ultraportables are and came to my senses. It's not overpriced. It's priced the same as, if not better than, other ultraportables on the market right now.

And I don't think the MacBook is "heavy." I put it in my bag every day along with several notebooks, calculators, and once in a while even a textbook, and walk a few miles back and forth from classes. By the end of the day I have a thick red line on my shoulder. I'm not complaining, but 2lbs. lighter would make a big difference, and may get rid of that bright red line on my shoulder. My girlfriend weighed her bookbag the other day, and it was almost 20 lbs. We're not weak, it's just that anything that makes that less would be a godsend. She and I can't afford MacBook Air's right now, and it would be silly to buy something new with (high-end) MacBooks (that cost as much as an MBA) that are less than a year old. But if we were in need of a replacement, you bet we'd invest in a couple MacBook Air's :D

cenetti
Feb 5, 2008, 09:58 PM
It's very simple. MBA are hated because they are an OVER priced, stripped down version of the MacBook. End of story.

As to MacBooks being heavy? What is that, some kind of corny joke? If some of you here really feel that way, I suggest you hurry up and join your nearest Bally's Total Fitness or 24 hr Fitness gyms. End of story.

EXACTLY!!!!

oh look its 2lb lighter....not as hard on my 10" girly arms....ooooohhhhhhh

:rolleyes:

duffyanneal
Feb 5, 2008, 09:59 PM
So again, you hate it because you can't buy one. Nice logic. Going to hate good food because you can't afford to eat it all the time too?

It has been scientifically proven that the RDF acts as a powerful attractant for Bizarros. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World)

chutzpah
Feb 5, 2008, 10:02 PM
So again, you hate it because you can't buy one. Nice logic. Going to hate good food because you can't afford to eat it all the time too?

. . . or you could spend hundreds of dollars less for a computer that's a quarter inch thicker, much faster, has an optical drive, and is a measly two pounds more than your precious air.

It's not a matter of spending money, it's a matter of spending money well.

AppleIntelRock
Feb 5, 2008, 10:23 PM
I'd pay my entire tuition for a smaller footprint

What about a smaller carbon footprint?

duffyanneal
Feb 5, 2008, 10:29 PM
It's not a matter of spending money, it's a matter of spending money well.

Using that logic (which isn't totally flawed) the world would be an incredibly boring, but fiscally prudent, place. I would miss sports cars, flat screen TVs, vacations, airplanes, priority shipping, toll roads, amusement parks, satellite radio, restaurants, bottled water, air conditioning, power windows, contact lenses, etc . Get the point.

TatsuTerror
Feb 5, 2008, 10:30 PM
. . . or you could spend hundreds of dollars less for a computer that's a quarter inch thicker, much faster, has an optical drive, and is a measly two pounds more than your precious air.

It's not a matter of spending money, it's a matter of spending money well.Have you touched a MBA? I doubt it.

Many are saying "I though the same as you...until I picked one up." It's completely true -- you have to hold it to understand it.

TechHistorian
Feb 5, 2008, 10:39 PM
I already said the EEE is an extraordinary success. But dont classify it as a UP. It is a new breed of laptop, like half UMPC and half UPPC. And you managed to prove my previous point. EEE is doing so extremely well because it did something new and fixed what was wrong with the UP market, it gave people what they wanted. A UP is not meant to replace your main computer, so why price it like one? The EEE did everything right, it made a compact ultra small notebook and priced it so low that the mainstream could afford it as a compliment to their main computer. The MBA did absolutely nothing at all like the EEE, it managed to do the complete opposite.

I, however, view the EEE as little more than a toy. A neat toy, and priced well for its power, but a toy nonetheless. It competes more with the iPod Touch or even the iPhone than with the MBA and other ultraportables. As somebody who writes and researches for a living (I'm an academic historian), the EEE's small screen and keyboard are abysmal for prolonged use. I can't imagine taking the EEE on a research trip and accomplishing any appreciable work with it. I could easily write a paper/thesis/book with the MBA, though. I could easily revise my presentations for conferences while flying to the conferences. Yes, I could do the same with an EEE -- but not as easily due to the smaller form factor. That's where the MBA shines -- its screen and keyboard are better suited for lengthy use for real-world applications (Word, PowerPoint, Pages, Keynote, et al.) than a machine with a smaller footprint is.

Personally, I'm torn about the MBA. I'm in the market for a new laptop since my wife has more or less appropriated my C2D MBP. Since I more or less took over her iMac in response, the MBA would be the perfect combination of light weight and large screen coupled with a more powerful main computer. OTOH, I'd love to get a MBP and bequeath the C2D iMac to my kids (they're currently using my wife's previous G4 17" iMac). The selfish git in me wants the MBA. The parent in me wants the MBP.

AppleIntelRock
Feb 5, 2008, 10:40 PM
EXACTLY!!!!

oh look its 2lb lighter....not as hard on my 10" girly arms....ooooohhhhhhh

:rolleyes:

What an unintelligent comment. Obviously you've never held a Macbook Air in one hand, and a Macbook in the other... it's night and day. You've obviously never traveled for weeks on end, or had to carry your laptop around the streets of New York and San Francisco. It must be my 10" girly arms :rolleyes:

Using that logic (which isn't totally flawed) the world would be an incredibly boring, but fiscally prudent, place. I would miss sports cars, flat screen TVs, vacations, airplanes, priority shipping, toll roads, amusement parks, satellite radio, restaurants, bottled water, air conditioning, power windows, contact lenses, etc . Get the point.

I agree with you 100%. It's just money you can't take it with you. Life's a bitch and then you die... and the wheels on the bus go round and round.

AppleIntelRock
Feb 5, 2008, 10:46 PM
The selfish git in me wants the MBA. The parent in me wants the MBP.

I've owned every iteration of Macbook Pro as well as a host of Powerbooks and I can say that between the Macbook Pro and Macbook Air... there really isn't a contest for me. The Macbook Pro is a great laptop- don't get me wrong- however, I really don't think you're gaining enough for what you're loosing. I can't tell you how many times I left my Macbook Pro at home because it simply wasn't practical to take it with my. With regards to the Macbook Air, I don't see myself leaving the house very often without it.

Just my 25 cents...

TechHistorian
Feb 5, 2008, 11:07 PM
I've owned every iteration of Macbook Pro as well as a host of Powerbooks and I can say that between the Macbook Pro and Macbook Air... there really isn't a contest for me. The Macbook Pro is a great laptop- don't get me wrong- however, I really don't think you're gaining enough for what you're loosing. I can't tell you how many times I left my Macbook Pro at home because it simply wasn't practical to take it with my. With regards to the Macbook Air, I don't see myself leaving the house very often without it.

Just my 25 cents...

And I appreciate the input ... The appeal of the MBP is that I get a whole computer, a true desktop replacement, and can thus give the kids the iMac without worries. The appeal of the MBA is its portability. I really can envision taking it everywhere. Sharing the iMac with my kids has limited appeal -- and I worry that the MBA just isn't going to cut it as a primary machine. Either way, I need to make a decision soon. Shuttling a USB drive back and forth from my Dell-equipped office to my home and iMac is getting old fast.

shadowfax
Feb 5, 2008, 11:57 PM
And I appreciate the input ... The appeal of the MBP is that I get a whole computer, a true desktop replacement, and can thus give the kids the iMac without worries. The appeal of the MBA is its portability. I really can envision taking it everywhere. Sharing the iMac with my kids has limited appeal -- and I worry that the MBA just isn't going to cut it as a primary machine. Either way, I need to make a decision soon. Shuttling a USB drive back and forth from my Dell-equipped office to my home and iMac is getting old fast.

What do you do with your computer, though, man? I was thinking about that, and I love having my MBP. All that horsepower is great for, you know, playing 3-D games. That's really the only thing I do that truly warrants the full power of the MBP. I dabble with photoshop, but photoshop really isn't that slow on anything with 2GB of RAM when you are dealing with relatively small images (which I usually am). Parallels would definitely be difficult to get running well on the MBA also, I am sure, not to mention being another huge space-hog on a small drive.

Parallels is really one of those "Do I really need this?" pieces of software, especially with Office 2008 out. I sure don't care too much about it. I would say that, in my personal experience day-to-day with my MacBook Pro, given an iMac that I could share with my wife (or in your case, the kids) for the sole purpose of playing computer games when the bug strikes me (getting much rarer) and leeching the optical drive for the random installation from DVD, I think I would find that the only thing the MBA really fell short on as a main computer is storage space. I also use Aperture to manage my photo library. It's a little sluggish on the MBP, but I think that's the seek time loading images from the drive, something that's unavoidable. I never got the impression that the Aperture application was actually as slow as all that, just that loading full images was a function, mostly, of hard drive speed.

That covers it for me. I will be checking out the MBA in person, but I think it's definitely a laptop I could use as a main computer. Hopefully they will get a 2GHz model with 4GB of RAM at the next product revision. That would set me for several years, especially with an aftermarket SSD upgrade when they get affordable and bigger.

BrokenE
Feb 6, 2008, 12:01 AM
My .000001 cent worth...

As others have posted, the folks who hate it were expecting something "they" wanted..... and of course did not get. But I what I would like to add to the topic is that I think these disappointed folks are true, die hard apple fans.

To that point, I think that apple does have a gap (or two) in their product line up. I personally would like to see a 15"MB. I don't need the speed and other high-end stuff, but i do want a decent size screen (13" is too small for my taste). Several have posted they want a 13" MBP... Hey, I get it, they want a small feature packed, little speed demon. And I do also get the Air, and I think it is great for the niche market that it is meant for, though it is definitely not for me. But why hate the product just because it's not to your specs, taste ir what ever? It makes no sense.

pesc
Feb 6, 2008, 12:35 AM
So you're saying the 12" screen is alright for a short train ride, but you switch to something bigger as soon as you get the chance!

---

As a "Road Warrior", ( gads I hate that phrase), I'm at a new desk almost every night and every day. I've found the 13.3" footprint to be a good compromise between portability and usability.


Exactly!
It depends on what you are doing. For reading documents, mail and surfing, the 12" screen is fine. I have also edited photos and videos on long trips and it is OK. But for software development or photo/video work I prefer a large screen.

As for the keyboard, the sizes are identical on the 12" PB and 15" (17"?) PB.

The point is that the laptop is not limited to the built-in screen. And if you are spending a full working day at a desk you better get a large decent screen and external keyboard/mouse. The ergonomics is so much better. Even if you've got a 15" MBP. Still I see people buying large laptops and use the built-in screen on their desks for whole days. Ludicrous!

Of course, if you do most work at various hotel rooms, you need to use the built-in screen and may want a larger one.

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2008, 01:32 AM
Exactly!
It depends on what you are doing. For reading documents, mail and surfing, the 12" screen is fine. I have also edited photos and videos on long trips and it is OK. But for software development or photo/video work I prefer a large screen.

As for the keyboard, the sizes are identical on the 12" PB and 15" (17"?) PB.

The point is that the laptop is not limited to the built-in screen. And if you are spending a full working day at a desk you better get a large decent screen and external keyboard/mouse. The ergonomics is so much better. Even if you've got a 15" MBP. Still I see people buying large laptops and use the built-in screen on their desks for whole days. Ludicrous!

Of course, if you do most work at various hotel rooms, you need to use the built-in screen and may want a larger one.

I would be fine with a 12" screen too, provided it was widescreen and at least 1280 x 800. That reminded me that one thing that I have gotten "spoiled" to in my MBP is the 1440 x 900 screen. I don't really give a rat's behind how big the screen is (within some reason), as long as it's a usable dot pitch (like the iPhone's dot pitch, 160ppi or whatever it is--no denser than that), and a biggish resolution. 1024x768, the resolution of the old 12" Powerbook, was gut-wrenchingly bad, in my opinion. You couldn't fit near enough on the screen. I can't tell you how, but 1280 x 800 is significantly better, even though the real estate increase is not exactly dramatic.

I wish Apple would apply the "high-res" edition that they have for the MBP17" (the 1920 x 1200 screen version) to the rest of their line. As in, you pay some extra, and you get a 1600 x 1050 screen in the MBP15", or a 1440 x 900 screen in the MB/MBA.

Like you say, it's also possible to fit a full-size keyboard into a 12" laptop, but there would be NO bezel (like the PB12") if you had a standard 4:3 aspect ratio, and there would be only a small one if it were widescreen. The problem, though, with a 12" widescreen is that you are going to end up being stuck with a shrunken trackpad, and I would guess that a trackpad smaller than the one that was on the PB12" would be a real pain to use. I am looking forward to trying out the big trackpad on the MBA.

I am not totally sure that you could get a full keyboard and a good-sized trackpad into a 12" widescreen laptop format. Probably it's possible, but I don't know. I think if they did it, it would indeed be gorgeous, and if it had a high enough resolution I would be gushing over it as well.

I just like the MBA because I am an optimist. There are things that I wish it had, and criticisms I can think of, but it's just so beautiful and cool to me, and, of course, the crux of this, it's enough for me (or rather, it will be with rev. 2--considering my optimism).

uber gorilla
Feb 6, 2008, 02:03 AM
There, got your attention!

Nah, I don't hate the MBA. I'm obsessed with it. I do, on the other hand, despise Apple for not getting their white-asses into gear and sending me my pre-ordered (hello? that means I should be privileged above all those purchase-at-a-store people). C'mon Mr Jobs, give me the royal treatment I deserve.

Just had to vent. Thanks for reading. :)

iAmLegend
Feb 6, 2008, 05:43 AM
I honestly can't believe some people paid 3 grand for this machine. And we wonder why Apple keeps over-pricing their products...I would too if I had so many fools willing to over-pay. Steve Jobs is a genius.

Roba
Feb 6, 2008, 08:23 AM
I don’t hate the MBA but I do think that Apple need to go back to the drawing board with this MBA. Right now I think that it is a bit of a con. I know thin and light can carry a premium but this notebook is just to over priced. Laptops like the Lenovo X61 represent in my opinion much better value for money.


This laptop only has 1 USB port no dvd drive no 3G internet, Ethernet, Firewire, very small sized HD and low RPM. It also has no Express card/PC Slot and no dock. It has a battery that the user cannot change on the go and it also has very inferior battery life for the ultra portable that it is meant to be. The MB I believe even gets better battery life.

This laptop is also using a standard C2D processor and not a ULV one that would help give it better battery life. Other companies offer the 1.8 ULV processor in their laptops. Why such the heavy premium for a 1.8 C2D processor a 1.8 ULV processor I think would be more ideal for this notebook. Why just offer 1.6 and 1.8 C2D if you are going to use a C2D processor you may as well offer better offerings than what they are doing as a 2.2ghz C2D processor offers no loss in battery life compared to a 1.8Ghz processor.


This laptop also has some design faults that need to be corrected it has been well reported that many 3G usb adapters cannot fit etc.

It does have some good things going for it has a full sized keyboard and it is thin and light has an LED screen AL chasis and the backlight keyboard and that is about it all has going for it.


With one usb port you may need to carry a powered usb hub if you travel depending on what hardware you which to use with your computer if you want to use your external super drive and your external HD you will need to carry a powered USB hub as a usb hub will not be powerful enough. This alone will put the weight to 5lbs +

Not only can these extras be plain annoying to having to get out on a regular basis they also look pretty unattractive to my eye also.


Apple could have done so much better in terms of sales I think if they brought out a true replacement to the 12 inch Power Book. It would not have been hard to do. Other companies like Sony and Toshiba etc can build 11-13 inch thin and light notebooks that offer full functionality.

TechHistorian
Feb 6, 2008, 08:50 AM
What do you do with your computer, though, man? I was thinking about that, and I love having my MBP. All that horsepower is great for, you know, playing 3-D games. That's really the only thing I do that truly warrants the full power of the MBP.

I don't do 3-D games. I do, however, dabble with digital video, especially for lectures. And I don't feel like fighting with my kids for access to the iMac to work on a lecture. Then again, I probably burn a DVD for class about 4-5 times a year ....

That's the issue, really. Daily use, the MBA fits me perfectly. But every now and then, I really could use a more full-featured laptop ... and there's a good deal of appeal to having both in one package (hence the allure of the MBP).

I played around with an MBA in an Apple Store last Friday. I must admit I was blown away by the weight, the keyboard, and the screen. I would have preferred if it had been more Duo-like (with a docking station that contained a larger HD, a SuperDrive, and a better graphics card), but I can't really complain about the engineering choices Apple made.

Catch
Feb 6, 2008, 08:54 AM
I donít hate the MBA...

Great post :) Most of that has been mentioned already, but a nice summary.

I am going crazy here waiting on my 1.8 SSD to arrive. Exciting times! :D

Regards,

C

Macmanus
Feb 6, 2008, 09:15 AM
The MBA is a nice design, but that's pretty all. Otherwise, it's an expensive toy for rich people or some nutty hardcore fans.

I don't see any reasonable argument in favor of the MBA, except the minus-optical drive concept. If you really need an ultra-portable - you're a student, a seller, someone who travels all the time - then I guess you can have a lot more for a lot less of money.

janstett
Feb 6, 2008, 10:37 AM
I "hate" (well not hate, but I'm disappointed in) the MacBook Air because it misses the point.

What we wanted was a new 12" Powerbook. What we got was something yes incredibly thin but with the footprint of a Macbook Pro that is missing some of its teeth.

BongoBanger
Feb 6, 2008, 10:37 AM
For everyone that is bagging on the MBA because you don't think it's an ultraportable -- think different. Apple has redefined the meaning of ultraportable as a lightweight, powerful (compared to many others), and sexy machine with an amazing backlit keyboard, track pad, and 13" screen. The price is fair, look at others in its class - wait, there are none! Nobody's packed this much punch into something so light before.

Why do you need an 11" or 12" over a 13" with a wide bezel? In my opinion, it's the weight that matters.

Sorry, but this is just silly and factually incorrect.

Sweetbike40
Feb 6, 2008, 11:15 AM
The MBA is a nice design, but that's pretty all. Otherwise, it's an expensive toy for rich people or some nutty hardcore fans.

I don't see any reasonable argument in favor of the MBA, except the minus-optical drive concept. If you really need an ultra-portable - you're a student, a seller, someone who travels all the time - then I guess you can have a lot more for a lot less of money.


I also wonder how many young kids are putting themselves in debt because of it.

loghyr
Feb 6, 2008, 11:34 AM
Hmm. I don't think I could work with a smaller screen than my 13" MacBook. Since I have to carry my notebooks and sometimes a textbook or two to my classes anyway, I need to carry a bag that's big enough for those, so anything smaller won't really make a difference, but something as thin as the MBA could allow me to fit an extra notebook or textbook, and/or make my shoulder-load a little easier on the mile walk to campus.

I don't disagree with that - the MBA form factor will fit in any case that I carry on trips.

As a longtime subnotebook user, I was just stating my original hesitance for getting one. The 10.6 wide Lifebook took me some time to get used to and it was also very sleek and stylish when I first got it.

If the MB had come out in a 12" form factor in January, even weighing about the same as a 13" MB, I would have bought it instead. But I can live without the optical drive, etc.

OSX is taking some time to get used to (I've had a mini for a couple of months to prep me), but I was sure enough I could adapt that I got the Air.

butterfly0fdoom
Feb 6, 2008, 12:15 PM
This laptop is also using a standard C2D processor and not a ULV one that would help give it better battery life. Other companies offer the 1.8 ULV processor in their laptops. Why such the heavy premium for a 1.8 C2D processor a 1.8 ULV processor I think would be more ideal for this notebook. Why just offer 1.6 and 1.8 C2D if you are going to use a C2D processor you may as well offer better offerings than what they are doing as a 2.2ghz C2D processor offers no loss in battery life compared to a 1.8Ghz processor.


This laptop also has some design faults that need to be corrected it has been well reported that many 3G usb adapters cannot fit etc.

The MacBook Air uses a Low Voltage Reduced Packaging Core 2 Duo chip, not a standard Core 2 Duo chip. The LV RP chip wasn't even slated to be released until the second half of this year when the Montevina chipset is released. Apple got Intel to speed up development of the chip, and thus only 1.6 and 1.8 versions were produced and only 1.6 and 1.8 versions are being offered. There is no 1.8 ULV processor. ULVs max out at 1.2, IIRC.

As for the USB design faults, it's already been stated that USB extension cords are somewhat safer for the computer than directly plugging the devices in. Apple bundling in a USB extension cable would have been nice, I guess.

ctt1wbw
Feb 6, 2008, 12:23 PM
Sorry, but this is just silly and factually incorrect.

According to what, the wiki? Or that pool of office workers?

Tiquina
Feb 6, 2008, 12:23 PM
Not the one you asked, but actually yes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500

That is too funny - good for you to dig it up!

quixotic
Feb 6, 2008, 12:29 PM
I don't hate it, but I do think it's more of a status symbol than a work horse.

IMHO, it's kind of like choosing between an equally priced 12 oz can and 16 oz bottle of soda. Some really don't want that extra 4oz and could care less about a resealable top.

People who need a system that can handle resource hungry applications, or want a do-it-all machine probably see little value in the MBA. For the rest (and there are plenty of them), the MBP is just additional weight and size.

BongoBanger
Feb 6, 2008, 12:39 PM
According to what, the wiki? Or that pool of office workers?

In response to this:

The price is fair, look at others in its class - wait, there are none! Nobody's packed this much punch into something so light before.

I was thinking more if in comparison to other products which are comparable in weight and actually have more power and features? Like the Lenovo Thinkpad X61?

Admittedly it's half a pound heavier but it's in the same ultraportable class.

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 12:50 PM
I "hate" (well not hate, but I'm disappointed in) the MacBook Air because it misses the point.

What we wanted was a new 12" Powerbook. What we got was something yes incredibly thin but with the footprint of a Macbook Pro that is missing some of its teeth.

That would be a perfectly valid statement if you qualified that "we." I know there are tons of people on this site who were waiting for a 12" MBP and don't care about the Air, but there are also lots of people who were happily surprised with the Air and don't care about the MBP.

I've never said there's anything wrong with being disappointed Apple went a different way than the 12" MBP, but to argue that it was some big consensus among laptop users is as silly as saying it's a consensus that the Air rocks our socks off.

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 12:59 PM
In response to this:



I was thinking more if in comparison to other products which are comparable in weight and actually have more power and features? Like the Lenovo Thinkpad X61?

Admittedly it's half a pound heavier but it's in the same ultraportable class.

Not just almost pound heavier, but also almost half an inch thicker than my regular MacBook, and twice the thickness of the MBA even at the MBA's thickest. So it would actually take up *more* space in my bag than my regular MacBook. Perfect if you need a smaller footprint and a little more power/storage/connectivity, but thinness is a lot more practical for me, even with the sacrifices, which aren't things I would use anyway. Not that I'm in the market for a new laptop right now, but if I were....

BongoBanger
Feb 6, 2008, 01:10 PM
Not just almost pound heavier, but also almost half an inch thicker than my regular MacBook, and twice the thickness of the MBA even at the MBA's thickest. So it would actually take up *more* space in my bag than my regular MacBook. Perfect if you need a smaller footprint and a little more power/storage/connectivity, but thinness is a lot more practical for me, even with the sacrifices, which aren't things I would use anyway. Not that I'm in the market for a new laptop right now, but if I were....

Good point. Horses for courses I guess.

ctt1wbw
Feb 6, 2008, 01:14 PM
In response to this:



I was thinking more if in comparison to other products which are comparable in weight and actually have more power and features? Like the Lenovo Thinkpad X61?

Admittedly it's half a pound heavier but it's in the same ultraportable class.

I found this:

http://tech.msn.com/products/Top5UltraportableLaptops.aspx

The X61 doesn't have an optical drive integrated, either. And for the same price? Plus the screen is smaller and not widescreen, not led backlit, no backlit keyboard... I just sold a Thinkpad that had a 14.1" screen because it was small and cramped.

AppleIntelRock
Feb 6, 2008, 01:16 PM
I'm curious to know how many people who think the Macbook Air's footprint is too large- have actually USED it daily for almost a week? It is a HUGE stride over the late, great 12" Powerbook (my favorite Apple laptop until now by the way.) At any rate, can you guys name some scenarios where the footprint of the MBA isn't acceptable?

NAG
Feb 6, 2008, 01:23 PM
Yeah, my Macbook air is much more portable than my old 12 inch powerbook. Even though it is wider, it is much easier to carry around (not to mention I can actually do photo editing on this thing while my powerbook would choke on that...yes the 12 inch powerbooks were indeed closer to the ibooks than the other powerbooks).

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 01:29 PM
I'm curious to know how many people who think the Macbook Air's footprint is too large- have actually USED it daily for almost a week? It is a HUGE stride over the late, great 12" Powerbook (my favorite Apple laptop until now by the way.) At any rate, can you guys name some scenarios where the footprint of the MBA isn't acceptable?

Most of the arguments seem to be centered around airplane/train trays, where the MBA-sized footprint is too big to be comfortable for one reason or another. If you commute as often as some of the small-footprint-lovers and really need that extra/comfortable tray space, I can see their reasoning. Lots of them also plug into a big external monitor at their desks. It's a perfectly logical line of reasoning if that's what you do; it's just that lots of them expect everyone to have the same needs, which many of us (myself included) don't.

ctt1wbw
Feb 6, 2008, 01:32 PM
Most of the arguments seem to be centered around airplane/train trays, where the MBA-sized footprint is too big to be comfortable for one reason or another. If you commute as often as some of the small-footprint-lovers and really need that extra/comfortable tray space, I can see their reasoning. Lots of them also plug into a big external monitor at their desks. It's a perfectly logical line of reasoning if that's what you do; it's just that lots of them expect everyone to have the same needs, which many of us (myself included) don't.


And then feel the need to criticize everyone else for wanting it, even *gasp* thinking it's an awesome laptop.

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2008, 01:32 PM
Yeah, my Macbook air is much more portable than my old 12 inch powerbook. Even though it is wider, it is much easier to carry around (not to mention I can actually do photo editing on this thing while my powerbook would choke on that...yes the 12 inch powerbooks were indeed closer to the ibooks than the other powerbooks).

Yeah, I think people tend to forget how bad it was. It was cool, that's for sure, and tolerable, but even with its GPU it was rather performance-anemic.

tuneman07
Feb 6, 2008, 01:34 PM
I wonder what percentage of people looked at the Macbook and honestly said "This is nice, but man, if you could shave a quarter inch off of it, and drop 2 pounds, it would be great!" Drop some features and add 700 bucks and you have the reason people don't want it. Also if you have been waiting for something cool or something you would be interested in from MWSF I can see why people are peeved. The MBA just doesn't make any sense.

ctt1wbw
Feb 6, 2008, 01:38 PM
Well, maybe to you, but believe it or not, it makes sense to many others. And that 3 pound laptop is great, especially if you need a cane to walk, and have to carry a book bag around college, like this cock does. :)

shiseiryu1
Feb 6, 2008, 01:49 PM
The main thing that disappoints me is the fact that it doesn't seem that the MacbookAir was designed with the "iMac Docking Station" in mind. I think they should have waited a bit longer and released an "ultraportable" notebook that can turn into a full-sized iMac with the docking station. Looking at the ports on the Macbook pro if they ever do release a docking station its going to be used with their next-gen ultrathin laptop...not this one.

btw: why haven't they come out with a docking station yet anyhow? If macbooks are so popular you'd think they would have made this a priority. :(

ctt1wbw
Feb 6, 2008, 01:57 PM
I haven't ever seen an Apple docking station. Not even sure if there ever was one to begin with. And to tell you truth, I've never even SEEN one in real life.

cedar
Feb 6, 2008, 02:00 PM
I "hate" (well not hate, but I'm disappointed in) the MacBook Air because it misses the point.

What we wanted was a new 12" Powerbook. What we got was something yes incredibly thin but with the footprint of a Macbook Pro that is missing some of its teeth.

I'm sorry, but who is "we"? I wanted a light machine with a larger screen and a full keyboard. So I guess we ain't me.

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 02:00 PM
I wonder what percentage of people looked at the Macbook and honestly said "This is nice, but man, if you could shave a quarter inch off of it, and drop 2 pounds, it would be great!" Drop some features and add 700 bucks and you have the reason people don't want it. Also if you have been waiting for something cool or something you would be interested in from MWSF I can see why people are peeved. The MBA just doesn't make any sense.

Yes, but how many of us honestly thought "Man, I want a phone that can play music like an iPod, and check my email like my computer, in addition to just taking calls. Also, if would be nice if it only had enough disk space for a fraction of my songs, cost a bundle, and tied me to a crappy, over-priced cell phone service!" But the iPhone seems to be doing pretty well for itself...

It makes perfect sense for some people; it just doesn't make sense for your particular needs or wants.

loghyr
Feb 6, 2008, 02:13 PM
Most of the arguments seem to be centered around airplane/train trays, where the MBA-sized footprint is too big to be comfortable for one reason or another.

Even with my 10.6" Lifebook footprint, it wasn't easy to work on it on an airplane.

Even first class can be cramped. (In first class, you get width - i.e. elbow room.)

DiscFreak
Feb 6, 2008, 02:23 PM
Yes it only has one USB port... again so what?! My last two Dells (X300 and current D410) have had 2 USB ports. So far, I have never needed both at the same time... ever. If more then one USB port is necessary for what you do and a hub wont cut it for you... then do not buy an MBA.

Why some people are just hating it is so beyond me. Again, if they don't like it, they should just not buy one.


This is my first posting to this, or any, forum. I had to send a message supporting this kind of thinking. Whenever Apple comes out with a new product there are the scores of people who attack it viciously about what it can't do. Here is the thing...Apple's market share is growing because they are building DIFFERENT products for DIFFERENT markets. If you need stuff that is not in the Air, then buy a MacBook Pro...THAT will be the machine for you!

One of the great things about Apple is the style in which they address their different markets! It makes those of us in the pro market envious! I want my MacBook Pro to be thin and cool too! But I will sac that for the Firewire, 200 gig drive and 4 gig of ram..thanks! I do video and music on mine.

I might get an Air for work though...mostly Office documents (Psychology Professor) and it is just eye candy.

Nice post HappySlayer!

DiscFreak (by the way, the Disc is for Frisbee, not a hard drive!)

tuneman07
Feb 6, 2008, 03:15 PM
Yes, but how many of us honestly thought "Man, I want a phone that can play music like an iPod, and check my email like my computer, in addition to just taking calls. Also, if would be nice if it only had enough disk space for a fraction of my songs, cost a bundle, and tied me to a crappy, over-priced cell phone service!" But the iPhone seems to be doing pretty well for itself...

It makes perfect sense for some people; it just doesn't make sense for your particular needs or wants.

I actually had that exact same thought when music phones first started coming out. My exact thought was "I wish my Ipod was a phone" and I would need to carry one thing around.

The OP was asking why people hate the MBA- the reason I don't want it is because 700 bucks is an absurd price IMO to pay to shave a quarter inch and 2lbs. If you are willing to pay 700 bucks to lose a quarter inch and 2 lbs then go for it. That is what it comes down to basically.

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 03:35 PM
The OP was asking why people hate the MBA- the reason I don't want it is because 700 bucks is an absurd price IMO to pay to shave a quarter inch and 2lbs. If you are willing to pay 700 bucks to lose a quarter inch and 2 lbs then go for it. That is what it comes down to basically.

Well, if you find it absurd, there's not much anyone can do you convince you otherwise, but the fact is there's lots of other laptops out there that are doing the same thing. The MacBook Air isn't unique in its high price for slim design factor. I always thought most of the other ultraportables out there were pretty absurd. They were insanely expensive for terrible processor power, tiny screen size, and too much fat to be any slimmer in my bag. But the MacBook Air's changed my opinion of ultraportables, because it makes a lot more sense to me--it sacrifices the things that I won't ever notice and keeps the things I will, all while looking beautiful doing it and taking up an average of only about a half inch in my bag. I want one, but sadly I'm not the kind to buy a new computer with one that's still less than a year old and working perfectly.

tstarks33
Feb 6, 2008, 03:53 PM
I actually had that exact same thought when music phones first started coming out. My exact thought was "I wish my Ipod was a phone" and I would need to carry one thing around.

The OP was asking why people hate the MBA- the reason I don't want it is because 700 bucks is an absurd price IMO to pay to shave a quarter inch and 2lbs. If you are willing to pay 700 bucks to lose a quarter inch and 2 lbs then go for it. That is what it comes down to basically.

Actually, you are quite wrong. It's 700 bucks to shave a quarter inch and lost 2 lbs, yes, but you also get a substandard HD, no optical drive, lose the ability to upgrade your ram or HD, or replace your battery, get worse battery life, and worse wireless reception :)

Yeah, well worth $700. :)

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2008, 03:58 PM
The main thing that disappoints me is the fact that it doesn't seem that the MacbookAir was designed with the "iMac Docking Station" in mind. I think they should have waited a bit longer and released an "ultraportable" notebook that can turn into a full-sized iMac with the docking station. Looking at the ports on the Macbook pro if they ever do release a docking station its going to be used with their next-gen ultrathin laptop...not this one.

btw: why haven't they come out with a docking station yet anyhow? If macbooks are so popular you'd think they would have made this a priority. :(

It really does seem that Apple has an exceedingly low opinion of docking stations. For the MBA, and more than likely any laptop you buy from Apple in the future, the closest you will be able to get is buying an external DVI monitor and attaching the included adaptor, then buying a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. On the plus side for the MBA, there is only a micro-DVI and single USB port to have to plug in, so it's not that much more trouble than docking.

I have always preferred this arrangement, because a docking solution generally requires that you close the laptop, which kills off the potential for a second screen. Buying a monitor and a BT keyboard/mouse makes a lot more sense to me, too, because it's not tied to any single type of device. If my MBA breaks and I get a different type of laptop, or if I just decide docking is stupid and I want a desktop (like a Mac Mini), then I'll already have the monitor and keyboard for it.

Also, just to add my personal experience with docking stations, I have a MBP with a 3rd-party dock, which is more of a port replicator. It's kind of nice, because you just rest the MBP on it, pull the lever, and all the ports connect. I used it at work all the time, but honestly, I'd rather have a desktop at work. I have a second dock for home (provided by work) that I never used, and ended up storing in the closet. I moved my monitor from the desk onto a shelf in the living room. When we watch movies, I hook my MBP up to it so we get a nice "big" 20" screen--much better than our craptacular 13" dorm-type TV. I would say that I think docking stations usually just turn out to be expensive wastes of money, so I would really argue that the best bet is the "interoperable" spare monitor and wireless kb/m. But, just my opinion. I know there is a "dock factor" group out there :)

diabolic
Feb 6, 2008, 04:10 PM
It makes perfect sense for some people

I don't know why it's so hard to see that.

The funny part is that I've started hoping there won't be a MBP update or a replacement for the 12" PB based on some of the posts I've read about the MBA. :)

dsnort
Feb 6, 2008, 04:16 PM
The funny part is that I've started hoping there won't be a MBP update or a replacement for the 12" PB based on some of the posts I've read about the MBA. :)

You're evil! Eeeeeveeeel!!!:D

NAG
Feb 6, 2008, 06:16 PM
And for the record, while the hard drive and battery are not technically user serviceable, they certainly look easy enough to access that it shouldn't be a problem.

Ram is of course out of the question but at least they gave us a decent amount.

GlossyIsBad4U
Feb 6, 2008, 07:25 PM
2MB MacBook Pro vs 2MB MacBook Air SSD

Performance: Xbench MBA %

CPU 87% (MBA slower)
Thread 60%
Memory 100% (both same)
Quartz 75% (MBA slower)
OpenGL 14% (WOW! Crawling vs MBP)
User Interface 38% (wow! Slow vs MBP)
Disk Test: not accurate due to data on drives.

Conclusion: MBA Open GL s*cks bad. Don't know if turning off OpenGL in programs will help performance or not. Lack of dedicated video processor responsible?

The MBA is a nice piece of hardware, the keys are not nearly as nice as the MBP though. And the glossy screen requires adjustment to eliminate the annoying reflections.

NAG
Feb 6, 2008, 07:28 PM
I don't know why you'd compare the MBA to a MBP. It is much more comparable to a Macbook, spec wise. It would be like comparing a Mini to a Mac Pro, of course the Pro is going to kick it's butt.

iMpathetic
Feb 6, 2008, 07:35 PM
Why do people appear to hate the MacBook Air?

Because they're needy crybabies who didn't get exactly what they wanted. :rolleyes:

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2008, 08:01 PM
Conclusion: MBA Open GL s*cks bad. Don't know if turning off OpenGL in programs will help performance or not. Lack of dedicated video processor responsible?

Certainly, the lack of a graphics card will put the MBA way down below the MBP on any kind of graphical measure, as that shows, but it makes me wonder how that compares to the MB, because they have the same graphics chip--that Intel X3100 or whatever they call it. I wonder if the performance lag has to do with poor OS X drivers for the X3100? seems like I have heard that is an anticipated update (in 10.5.2 or some other future update).

DakotaGuy
Feb 6, 2008, 08:02 PM
Why do people appear to hate the MacBook Air?

Because they're needy crybabies who didn't get exactly what they wanted. :rolleyes:

I'm not in the market for such a laptop since I don't use one enough to own anything more then a cheap PC laptop, however, I don't think it is just needy crybabies that have issues with this computer.

A lot of consumers see the Macbook Air as a poor value. It is probably one of the worst values in the computer industry today. Is it attractive? Yes! Is it light and thin? Yes! Is it worth the money? No! It's a fashion statement first and foremost and a crippled computer after that. Apple had to make a lot of compromises to make it so thin and to many people it is not worth it. I think it is a great experiment and may serve a certain small niche of consumers, but will never be a good seller.

Catch
Feb 6, 2008, 08:02 PM
2MB MacBook Pro vs 2MB MacBook Air SSD

Performance: Xbench MBA %

CPU 87% (MBA slower)
Thread 60%
Memory 100% (both same)
Quartz 75% (MBA slower)
OpenGL 14% (WOW! Crawling vs MBP)
User Interface 38% (wow! Slow vs MBP)
Disk Test: not accurate due to data on drives.

Conclusion: MBA Open GL s*cks bad. Don't know if turning off OpenGL in programs will help performance or not. Lack of dedicated video processor responsible?

The MBA is a nice piece of hardware, the keys are not nearly as nice as the MBP though. And the glossy screen requires adjustment to eliminate the annoying reflections.

I own a MBP but will pass it down the food chain once I get my MBA... For me the MBP is the worst possible scenario. It is not portable enough to be comfortable all day long and yet it does not stand a chance against my MacPro for heavy lifting. Its an absurd machine to carry around all day long unless a. it is your only computer, and b. you need the most powerful machine you can get your hand on while say on location. If its the latter you should really be talking about the 17".

Everything that I need on the road the MBA does as good as the MBP, and everything I do at a desk my desktop destroys the MBP at.

Do I go around whining that the MBP is a waste of inventory for Apple? No I don't because I understand that there are people out there that have that need. I also don't whine about it because as we are tied to Apple for OSX we need more options and not less.

I honestly believe that the majority of whiners are people that are 'hobby' users that don't really understand what real pros use their computers for, or at the very least have never experienced real production workflows be it printing, film making, animation et al.

All these people want is to be able to show off the so called 'Pro' machine to people in coffee shops to show off their latest 'home movie' project in Final Cut Express and a few 'cool' layers in After Effects (usually not purchased in my experience) and discuss benchmarks. You see them all over the coffee shops, mainly because they don't have offices to sit down with their clients.

Real 'Pro' users are usually very slow to migrate to new hardware and software as they know the consequences of downtime, as it hits them hard in the pocket. This is true in the 'arty' fields as much as in the 'corporate' fields...

Regards,

C

iMpathetic
Feb 6, 2008, 08:08 PM
I'm not in the market for such a laptop since I don't use one enough to own anything more then a cheap PC laptop, however, I don't think it is just needy crybabies that have issues with this computer.

A lot of consumers see the Macbook Air as a poor value. It is probably one of the worst values in the computer industry today. Is it attractive? Yes! Is it light and thin? Yes! Is it worth the money? No! It's a fashion statement first and foremost and a crippled computer after that. Apple had to make a lot of compromises to make it so thin and to many people it is not worth it. I think it is a great experiment and may serve a certain small niche of consumers, but will never be a good seller.

That is a perfectly great reason to not WANT one.

What irritates me is people who automatically despise it because it isn't a 12" PB.

I don't think it was meant to be a good seller; just a bold statement about Apple's engineering prowess.

MacNut
Feb 6, 2008, 08:30 PM
I wonder how many people buying the MBA are impulse buyers, they see something new and cool and have to have it without really thinking if it is what they need. I would like to find out the number of people that will be disappointed a few weeks after buying it when they realize that it doesn't do as much as they would have hoped. It just doesn't seem practical to cost so much and do so little. I think it is a waste of money. Just my opinion.:o Form over function.

MazingerZ
Feb 6, 2008, 08:35 PM
A lot of consumers see the Macbook Air as a poor value. It is probably one of the worst values in the computer industry today.

Care to back it up with facts? :confused:

iMpathetic
Feb 6, 2008, 08:38 PM
Seriously, they need to take MR offline for 2 weeks after each product announcement. This is getting out of hand.

MacNut
Feb 6, 2008, 08:38 PM
Care to back it up with facts? :confused:Not a hard comparison really, just look at the specs of the MB against the MBA.

MazingerZ
Feb 6, 2008, 08:39 PM
Not a hard comparison really, just look at the specs of the MB against the MBA.

Excuse me... I didn't see a new poll out saying how the MBA is a poor value in the computer industry today. :rolleyes:

MacNut
Feb 6, 2008, 08:40 PM
In my opinion I think the MBA should be on the low end of the laptop line for Apple.

diabolic
Feb 6, 2008, 08:55 PM
I would like to find out the number of people that will be disappointed a few weeks after buying it when they realize that it doesn't do as much as they would have hoped.

What exactly are people expecting it to do that it can't? Not a single person I know rips CDs, DVDs, or encodes video on their smaller laptops, and I am in the software industry. Anyone that needs to edit audio or video on location usually has a 17" powerhouse portable that isn't even in the discussion at this form factor.

I installed Photoshop CS3 and Lightroom today and speed-wise they run fine on the MBA.

MacNut
Feb 6, 2008, 08:59 PM
How many people use 1 usb port at a time. That is a big drawback. Plus not having a wired ethernet. I think the MBA leaves a lot to be desired.

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 08:59 PM
Not a hard comparison really, just look at the specs of the MB against the MBA.

If you judged laptops by specs alone, all ultraportables out there are terribly poor values. I'm sure there are people out there to think that, but if you're going to reduce it to specs alone, that's what you're saying. But there's still a market for them, and Apple is offering a new and different take on the idea.

MacNut
Feb 6, 2008, 09:01 PM
If you judged laptops by specs alone, all ultraportables out there are terribly poor values. I'm sure there are people out there to think that, but if you're going to reduce it to specs alone, that's what you're saying. But there's still a market for them, and Apple is offering a new and different take on the idea.So why not pay for what you get, don't pay twice as much for half as much.

harcosparky
Feb 6, 2008, 09:04 PM
I can't see how anyone could 'hate' something the never owned/used.

I do not have a MBA.

I am in the market for a 'new' notebook, but the Macbook is not for me. At least not now, I'm not an 'early adopter of anything!

loghyr
Feb 6, 2008, 09:08 PM
I wonder how many people buying the MBA are impulse buyers, they see something new and cool and have to have it without really thinking if it is what they need.

I've been waiting for a 12" replacement for over 2 years. I bought a Lifebook with lower specs than what everyone else was using and it has lasted me those 2 years.

I've had an order ready for a MB 3 or 4 times in that time which I pulled out of at the very last button. I couldn't convince myself that my needs would be met.

I've been waiting specifically for the MBA since mid-December. I used this site to gauge that I should wait.

I expect the MBA to last me 2 or more years.

MacNut
Feb 6, 2008, 09:10 PM
Oh so why spend more and get less, Why not pay less and get the MB and save the money even if you don't use everything on it.

kuwisdelu
Feb 6, 2008, 10:01 PM
So why not pay for what you get, don't pay twice as much for half as much.

So you find all ultraportables to be bad returns for your money? A valid viewpoint, but certainly there's a demand for them, otherwise no one would sell them anymore. There are people willing to pay a premium price for the added portability of an ultraportable. Calling into question the value of all ultraportables is a new one, but if you don't like them in general, that's certainly a reason not to like the Air. I see where you're coming from, but it's just not feasible yet for computer companies to sell such small laptops according to their power, because the technology to shrink the electronics down to that size is just too expensive. If Apple were the only one charging that much, then we'd have a real problem.

diabolic
Feb 6, 2008, 10:04 PM
So why not pay for what you get, don't pay twice as much for half as much.

Because it's possible that form over function isn't a bad thing. Form usually costs more.

pesc
Feb 7, 2008, 03:05 AM
What irritates me is people who automatically despise it because it isn't a 12" PB.


If Apple had a 12" MBP in 2008 vintage I couldn't care less about the MBA.

Since they don't I take the MBA release as a message that Apple don't ever want to release a 12" PB replacement. Or anything with a small footprint.

This makes me want to kick the MBA in its thin balls.

Please don't take it personally. :)

mhaas
Feb 7, 2008, 05:43 AM
If Apple had a 12" MBP in 2008 vintage I couldn't care less about the MBA.

Since they don't I take the MBA release as a message that Apple don't ever want to release a 12" PB replacement. Or anything with a small footprint.

This makes me want to kick the MBA in its thin balls.

Please don't take it personally. :)

What I don't really understand with all the PB12" worshippers here is, that the PB12'' was only a tuned up ibookG4 and so is the macbook AIR related more to the macbook (aside from the LED screen) than the macbook pro, so what is the big deal people? The PB12" was simarlily more related to the ibook than to the PB15". Apple did the same approach with the macbook AIR basically.

maverick808
Feb 7, 2008, 05:51 AM
What I don't really understand with all the PB12" worshippers here is, that the PB12'' was only a tuned up ibookG4 and so is the macbook AIR related more to the macbook (aside from the LED screen) than the macbook pro, so what is the big deal people? The PB12" was simarlily more related to the ibook than to the PB15". Apple did the same approach with the macbook AIR basically.

Nah, that's just wrong. The 12" PowerBook was more powerful than the 12" iBook. Are you saying the MacBook Air is more powerful than the MacBook (which maxed out can be 2.2GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 160GB hard-drive, loads of ports)? Remember, even though it was only a light difference, the 12" PowerBook was technically superior to the iBook in every way.

If Apple had taken the same approach they did to the 12" PBook then the Air would be MORE powerful than the MacBook, instead of substantially less powerful.

duffyanneal
Feb 7, 2008, 06:06 AM
I can't see how anyone could 'hate' something the never owned/used.

I have a funny story for everyone.

Several years ago (before I met my wife) I was fortunate enough to get my dream car. On my 27th birthday (after saving money for years) I bought a Porsche. I was driving on Central Expressway in Dallas on my way back from showing my friends my new ride. It was about 10 at night and the traffic was light. I had the top down and I was just cruising in the slow lane going the speed limit just minding my own business. Along beside me pull a car pulls up with a few idiots inside. They started yelling four letter words in my direction, and one dude hung out the window trying to reach out and punch my car. I could tell by what they were saying that they were provoked by seeing my car. I just swerved and hit the gas pedal. That was just the first run in with people that hate you (and indirectly the object) for no apparent reason other than some deep seeded jealousy or disgust. I had that car for two years and even I was surprised how people react negatively and those type of cars in North Dallas is not exactly rare.

So yes there are people that hate things and hate people for no other reason than just to hate.

janstett
Feb 7, 2008, 07:06 AM
I'm curious to know how many people who think the Macbook Air's footprint is too large- have actually USED it daily for almost a week? It is a HUGE stride over the late, great 12" Powerbook (my favorite Apple laptop until now by the way.) At any rate, can you guys name some scenarios where the footprint of the MBA isn't acceptable?

I'll give you two. A few years back I did a lot of ovrseas travel and learned the value of a true ultraportable.

1. Stuck in coach on a full flight from JFK to Tokyo for close to a day. Your elbows are welded to your side and there's no room to maneuver your knife and fork for meals. You begin to act like a t-Rex and use only your wrists. The bigger footprint kills the MBA here, not to mention the nonremovable battery.

2. Once in Tokyo your tiny hotel room has a tiny safe, which the MBA will not fit into so you either leave it in the room or take it with you.

I think a lot of people trying to justify this design are Prada-Starbucks bloggers and not people who do serious tours on the road.

ctt1wbw
Feb 7, 2008, 07:08 AM
Well, if it's too big for you, you can find something smaller on eBay, you know.

Catch
Feb 7, 2008, 07:20 AM
So why not pay for what you get, don't pay twice as much for half as much.

Its almost like some people woke up the day the MBA was launched and for the first time looked at computers. It has ALWAYS been much more expensive to produce small form factor electronics than large form factor electronics.

These kinds of posts really shows how young some of the members here are. Walkman's used to be huge, MP3 players used to be huge and surprise surprise laptops used to be huge. As smaller packaging appears prices initially increase.

This is all down to the production technologies.

Miniaturization costs money. Its not hard to produce laptops with large form factors, which is why they can be cheaper with more features.

If you want features, then buy a larger laptop. If you want to save money, buy a larger laptop.

Its not hard to understand is it?

C

mrklaw
Feb 7, 2008, 07:40 AM
How many people use 1 usb port at a time. That is a big drawback. Plus not having a wired ethernet. I think the MBA leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't get the ethernet comment. At home if you need ethernet then can't you just add the adapter to your ethernet cable - you still only have one cable to plug in.

yes, if you're in a hotel its one more thing to carry, but TBH I've never been in a hotel in the last couple of years that didn't have wifi - it is becoming a commodity offering in hotels. So that 'pain' if you can call it that, will go away

tstarks33
Feb 7, 2008, 08:10 AM
Excuse me... I didn't see a new poll out saying how the MBA is a poor value in the computer industry today. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, because if you read it in a poll, it must be true! :rolleyes:

pesc
Feb 7, 2008, 08:24 AM
At any rate, can you guys name some scenarios where the footprint of the MBA isn't acceptable?

Every morning.

http://mbp12.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9

MazingerZ
Feb 7, 2008, 08:28 AM
Every morning.

http://mbp12.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9

Use the other tray next to you! :p

Catch
Feb 7, 2008, 08:41 AM
Every morning.

http://mbp12.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9

Braver than me!

C

DakotaGuy
Feb 7, 2008, 10:19 AM
Excuse me... I didn't see a new poll out saying how the MBA is a poor value in the computer industry today. :rolleyes:


It doesn't take a poll to figure this one out. All you have to do is compare laptops feature to feature and price to price to see the Macbook Air comes up short, way short. Now I said it is a POOR VALUE, not that it is a poor computer or there is anything really wrong with it. All I am saying is that you can get a lot more computer for your money then the Macbook Air. You really are paying for "the look of thin" and that's about it. Honestly in the price range of the Macbook Air, can you really think of a laptop with less features?

MazingerZ
Feb 7, 2008, 10:23 AM
It doesn't take a poll to figure this one out. All you have to do is compare laptops feature to feature and price to price to see the Macbook Air comes up short, way short. Now I said it is a POOR VALUE, not that it is a poor computer or there is anything really wrong with it. All I am saying is that you can get a lot more computer for your money then the Macbook Air. You really are paying for "the look of thin" and that's about it. Honestly in the price range of the Macbook Air, can you really think of a laptop with less features?
Again, portability can be quantified in different ways. You have to look at the whole package and presentation. Its not all about specs in the portable market. Some value the thinness and portability more than the actual specs, you obviously don't. You just look at the specs and compare it to other laptops out there without any consideration on the design and functionality of the product.

kuwisdelu
Feb 7, 2008, 10:24 AM
How many people use 1 usb port at a time. That is a big drawback. Plus not having a wired ethernet. I think the MBA leaves a lot to be desired.

Umm. There are lots of us who only use 1 USB port at a time. Actually, there are lots of us who rarely have anything in our USB's at all. Back when I had my old Dell laptop I'd have a few things plugged in, but that's because it's trackpad pissed me off and it was too big to move, so I just used it as a desktop. But my MacBook? At most, I have one thing plugged into USB every other day or so. And ethernet? I bought a wireless router so I wouldn't have to use that.

Braver than me!

C

Me too! I've seen pesc use that picture several times, so I certainly get what he needs a small footprint for, but I could never have an open drink that close to my laptop! Every time I see it, I get a bit nervous. :rolleyes:

diabolic
Feb 7, 2008, 10:28 AM
Honestly in the price range of the Macbook Air, can you really think of a laptop with less features?

I can't think of one with a better look or feel either.

kuwisdelu
Feb 7, 2008, 10:32 AM
It doesn't take a poll to figure this one out. All you have to do is compare laptops feature to feature and price to price to see the Macbook Air comes up short, way short. Now I said it is a POOR VALUE, not that it is a poor computer or there is anything really wrong with it. All I am saying is that you can get a lot more computer for your money then the Macbook Air. You really are paying for "the look of thin" and that's about it. Honestly in the price range of the Macbook Air, can you really think of a laptop with less features?

Obviously, you haven't tried comparing it to other ultraportables, which is the market that this thing was made for. I wasn't that familiar with ultraportables until the MacBook Air came out either, so it's okay. But it's pretty standard that you'll see price skyrocket once you hit a certain size and get smaller, because the price of making things that small is expensive. That's just how it is; the technology is expensive, and it's worth it to a lot of people to have the added portability.

If you compare it against computers like the Sony TZ and IBM/Lenovo's Thinkpad series, you'll see how the MacBook Air really compares. Now it definitely makes different compromises, but the price is about the same. Compared to those kinds of laptops, yes, MacBook Air is definitely lacking in some features like ports and connectivity, but it also has a much faster processor than most of them and often more or equal drive space. It also has a normal screen and keyboard size, which is important to a lot of people who don't want to work on the tiny screen most ultraportables offer.

Check out other ultraportables. They'll all cost just as much. They all make compromises. Some of the statements in this thread are getting pretty silly.

DakotaGuy
Feb 7, 2008, 10:35 AM
Again, portability can be quantified in different ways. You have to look at the whole package and presentation. Its not all about specs in the portable market. Some value the thinness and portability more than the actual specs, you obviously don't. You just look at the specs and compare it to other laptops out there without any consideration on the design and functionality of the product.

Ok, let's just take the fashion factor out of the equation for a moment. Let's compare the Macbook and Macbook Air. I would say for MOST...not all...but MOST consumers the Macbook would be plenty compact and light. Now considering that most consumers would find the Macbook's size and weight acceptible the only reason you would choose the Macbook Air is because of it's looks. That's it.

There is a very small percentage of consumers that will purchase on looks alone and the Macbook Air is their computer. For the rest of consumers they will choose the Macbook or Macbook Pro depending on their needs.

I don't have a problem with Apple building the Macbook Air. Its fine if they are using it as an engineering experiment. There are a few people that might really like it, but I am just trying to point out the fact that this computer will be a sales flop just like the G4 Cube.

MazingerZ
Feb 7, 2008, 10:37 AM
Ok, let's just take the fashion factor out of the equation for a moment. Let's compare the Macbook and Macbook Air. I would say for MOST...not all...but MOST consumers the Macbook would be plenty compact and light. Now considering that most consumers would find the Macbook's size and weight acceptible the only reason you would choose the Macbook Air is because of it's looks. That's it.

There is a very small percentage of consumers that will purchase on looks alone and the Macbook Air is their computer. For the rest of consumers they will choose the Macbook or Macbook Pro depending on their needs.

I don't have a problem with Apple building the Macbook Air. Its fine if they are using it as an engineering experiment. There are a few people that might really like it, but I am just trying to point out the fact that this computer will be a sales flop just like the G4 Cube.

You make a lot of assumptions for the mac community in general. Care to lay out your credentials? Pollster? Tech insider? :confused:

DakotaGuy
Feb 7, 2008, 10:38 AM
Obviously, you haven't tried comparing it to other ultraportables, which is the market that this thing was made for. I wasn't that familiar with ultraportables until the MacBook Air came out either, so it's okay. But it's pretty standard that you'll see price skyrocket once you hit a certain size and get smaller, because the price of making things that small is expensive. That's just how it is; the technology is expensive, and it's worth it to a lot of people to have the added portability.

If you compare it against computers like the Sony TZ and IBM/Lenovo's Thinkpad series, you'll see how the MacBook Air really compares. Now it definitely makes different compromises, but the price is about the same. Compared to those kinds of laptops, yes, MacBook Air is definitely lacking in some features like ports and connectivity, but it also has a much faster processor than most of them and often more or equal drive space. It also has a normal screen and keyboard size, which is important to a lot of people who don't want to work on the tiny screen most ultraportables offer.

Check out other ultraportables. They'll all cost just as much. They all make compromises. Some of the statements in this thread are getting pretty silly.


All I have said is that MOST but not ALL Apple customers will compare the Macbook Air to other APPLE laptops and walk out of the store with a Macbook or Macbook Pro.

I think a lot of people would have rather seen a small Macbook Pro instead of the Macbook Air even if it was a little thicker.

You make a lot of assumptions for the mac community in general. Care to lay out your credentials? Pollster? Tech insider? :confused:

I did not realize that you had to be one of these people to post here. Are you an insider? pollster? etc? I am just giving my theory about the Macbook Air. It is just my opinion. Yours might be different. You might think the Macbook Air is the best laptop ever built and that everyone wants to buy one because it is such a great value, but I feel differently. That's all. Our opinions on the product differ. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right.

MazingerZ
Feb 7, 2008, 10:39 AM
And if the MBA turns out to be a flop, so what? I'm sure many innovations that came from the development of the MBA will trickle to the other product lines of Apple.

NAG
Feb 7, 2008, 10:46 AM
I find it funny that so many people are talking about the Macbook Air as a niche product as if that is some sort of startling realization. Niche≠bad. One could say hard drive based mp3 players were a niche market (because they were when the iPod was released).

DakotaGuy
Feb 7, 2008, 10:46 AM
And if the MBA turns out to be a flop, so what? I'm sure many innovations that came from the development of the MBA will trickle to the other product lines of Apple.

If you took the time to read any of my posts about the Macbook Air since it was introduced you will notice that I said it was a great experiment in engineering. I hope that we see new ideas from the Macbook Air being passed on to different products. It still does not change my opinion on the overall value to the consumer.

ankushpatel
Feb 7, 2008, 10:48 AM
The real reason i dont like the mba is that your paying so much for so little. The 1.8 is 3000 dollars i mean come on for god sakes. Yes weight is nice but still very very costy. Also i buy macs so that they last me, looking at the air it looks very "cheap made" unlike the solid macbook pro's. Id sacrifice some pounds.

MazingerZ
Feb 7, 2008, 10:50 AM
The real reason i dont like the mba is that your paying so much for so little. The 1.8 is 3000 dollars i mean come on for god sakes. Yes weight is nice but still very very costy. Also i buy macs so that they last me, looking at the air it looks very "cheap made" unlike the solid macbook pro's. Id sacrifice some pounds.

I think you need to go to the apple store and try one for yourself. As for 3k, its 3k with a SSD drive. :rolleyes:

kuwisdelu
Feb 7, 2008, 11:00 AM
All I have said is that MOST but not ALL Apple customers will compare the Macbook Air to other APPLE laptops and walk out of the store with a Macbook or Macbook Pro.

I think a lot of people would have rather seen a small Macbook Pro instead of the Macbook Air even if it was a little thicker.



I did not realize that you had to be one of these people to post here. Are you an insider? pollster? etc? I am just giving my theory about the Macbook Air. It is just my opinion. Yours might be different. You might think the Macbook Air is the best laptop ever built and that everyone wants to buy one because it is such a great value, but I feel differently. That's all. Our opinions on the product differ. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right.

I've certainly never said that everyone wants to buy one. But for the people who do, it is a great value for them. Ultraportables are and have always been a niche product, but there are definitely people who want and need them, because otherwise companies would have stopped making them a long time ago. You say that "Apple customers will compare the Macbook Air to other APPLE laptops and walk out of the store with a Macbook or Macbook Pro." Many, probably, but not everyone. Why is it a bad thing that the choice of a Mac ultraportable is there? Someone who turns it down for a MacBook or MacBook Pro wasn't going to choose a TZ or one of the smaller Thinkpad's over your run-of-the-mill Dell either.

But of course, everything always comes down to the smaller MacBook Pro replacement of the 12" PB... Always...

Personally, I hope Apple releases a 13" MacBook Pro. I'd buy that in a second. 12" is just too small for me.

The real reason i dont like the mba is that your paying so much for so little. The 1.8 is 3000 dollars i mean come on for god sakes. Yes weight is nice but still very very costy. Also i buy macs so that they last me, looking at the air it looks very "cheap made" unlike the solid macbook pro's. Id sacrifice some pounds.

That's strange; I think that MacBook Air's look great. Certainly don't look "cheap made" to my eye. And if you mean that it looks like it will be fragile; it's not. Look at the anecdotes from the people who've dropped/seen one been dropped. I know anecdotal evidence is never the best kind, but I certainly hope no one does a "real" drop test study of MacBooks... But those MacBook Air's are built solid as rocks. They're just a strong as a MacBook Pro, and less likely to be damaged in an impact from a fall.

Tiquina
Feb 7, 2008, 11:05 AM
[QUOTE=Abercrombieboy;4914930]All I have said is that MOST but not ALL Apple customers will compare the Macbook Air to other APPLE laptops and walk out of the store with a Macbook or Macbook Pro.

I wonder if the MBA might bring PC users into the Apple store. Then even if they walk out with a Macbook or Macbook Pro, Apple wins.

ctt1wbw
Feb 7, 2008, 11:05 AM
OMFG people, can't we drop this? If you don't like, don't buy it. Stop trying to reason with people to get them to accept your opinion, because they won't. End of story.:rolleyes:

cedar
Feb 7, 2008, 11:12 AM
OMFG people, can't we drop this? If you don't like, don't buy it. Stop trying to reason with people to get them to accept your opinion, because they won't. End of story.:rolleyes:

Gosh, I thought everyone was required to buy one, based on all of the whining and gnashing of teeth I've been observing. Free market means, at least when I went to school, buy it if you like it, don't if you don't. If I got screwed by buying one, so be it. It was my free choice and I made the decision based on my perceived needs and wants. Please people, don't feel that anyone is forcing you to do the same.

tstarks33
Feb 7, 2008, 11:22 AM
OMFG people, can't we drop this? If you don't like, don't buy it. Stop trying to reason with people to get them to accept your opinion, because they won't. End of story.:rolleyes:

If you don't like us talking about it, then don't read our posts. Seems pretty simple? Coming into this thread to tell us to "drop it" is pretty silly. Isn't this the entire point of these message boards?

kyleen66
Feb 7, 2008, 11:27 AM
The real reason i dont like the mba is that your paying so much for so little. The 1.8 is 3000 dollars i mean come on for god sakes. Yes weight is nice but still very very costy. Also i buy macs so that they last me, looking at the air it looks very "cheap made" unlike the solid macbook pro's. Id sacrifice some pounds.

I got the 1.8 with a hard drive, and it didn't come to 3K.

I also buy my macs to last a VERY long time. My MBA will finally retire the 2400c I've been dragging around for writing. I've also had the 12' PB (and loved it and used it to the point that the hard drive, monitor, and keyboard had to be replaced before I passed it down to my daughter--- thanks AppleCare!).

Honestly, there is NOTHING "cheap made" about the MBA. It's a very solid machine.

I do believe that it's a great computer for some people, but not so much for others.

In truth, I believe most of the MBA "hate" is not due to jealously, but rather disappointment. It wasn't what some people wanted Apple to come out with. And I'm sorry for them. But for me it's great. It's all a matter of perspective.

ctt1wbw
Feb 7, 2008, 11:42 AM
If you don't like us talking about it, then don't read our posts. Seems pretty simple? Coming into this thread to tell us to "drop it" is pretty silly. Isn't this the entire point of these message boards?


Well, coming here and bitching about it seems pretty silly to many people.

dwc
Feb 7, 2008, 11:50 AM
[QUOTEI got the 1.8 with a hard drive, and it didn't come to 3K.

I also buy my macs to last a VERY long time. My MBA will finally retire the 2400c I've been dragging around for writing. I've also had the 12' PB (and loved it and used it to the point that the hard drive, monitor, and keyboard had to be replaced before I passed it down to my daughter--- thanks AppleCare!).

Honestly, there is NOTHING "cheap made" about the MBA. It's a very solid machine.

I do believe that it's a great computer for some people, but not so much for others.

In truth, I believe most of the MBA "hate" is not due to jealously, but rather disappointment. It wasn't what some people wanted Apple to come out with. And I'm sorry for them. But for me it's great. It's all a matter of perspective.



here, here......I also got the 1.8 but, with the ssd, couldn't be more pleased. I still have my mbp, sold my mb & the MacBook Air is replacing it.
Now, I agree they aren't for everyone & I'm sure we haven't heard all the reasons yet. I have no regret for $ spent for I got. I believe we'll all benefit from some of these features in near future. You guys will be expecting.........ssds, new trackpad features & such in you next laptops & the MBA just happened to be the first.

HLdan
Feb 7, 2008, 11:53 AM
I don't have a problem with Apple building the Macbook Air. Its fine if they are using it as an engineering experiment. There are a few people that might really like it, but I am just trying to point out the fact that this computer will be a sales flop just like the G4 Cube.

And if sales fly off the roof with the AIR and it becomes a financial success for Apple then what will you say? Would you be willing to admit you were wrong or would you do what most people would do, get lost from the forums until the fire goes away?:p

CyberBob859
Feb 7, 2008, 11:55 AM
The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.

They decided that they weren't going to compromise the screen and keyboard size, and defined ultraportable as thin and 3 lbs of weight.

To meet that, something had to be compromised, so goodbye ports, optical drive, use an iPod hard drive, etc.

The problem - many of Apple's loyal customers looked at the 12" PowerBook as a great size, and wanted a current technology replacement for that. Take away an optical drive and make it external, thin it out a little, and give it that Powerbook form factor, along with the current crop of ports found in other laptops, and I think many, many people would gladly hand over money to upgrade their PowerBooks. That design would also still attract a whole new group of customers looking for something thinner and lighter than the MacBook or MacBook Pro.

So, Apple comes out and says "we created the world's thinnest notebook" and alot of customers are saying "so what - its not what I want. Too many compromises to get that sales moniker"

You can easily dismiss them and say "if you don't like it, don't buy it." How does this help Apple? They just lost a potential sale from somebody who WANTS to buy a product from them, if only it was the right product.

The Air is creating a lot of controversy simply because there are customers who have their own design ideas on what constitutes an ultraportable, versus Apple's own ideas. A little bit of communication up front on Apple's part to talk to their customers to find out WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO THEM would've produced a laptop that got much broader market acceptance on its introduction, in my opinion, and created an instant hit. Instead, they get division and controversy.

How is this good for the Air and Apple?

ctt1wbw
Feb 7, 2008, 12:20 PM
I've bought 5 Dell laptops in the last 5 years. Dell has never asked me what is best for me.

mhaas
Feb 7, 2008, 12:23 PM
I think you need to go to the apple store and try one for yourself. As for 3k, its 3k with a SSD drive. :rolleyes:

and in any version you get an LED screen, which you cannot get in a macbook as either...

glhiii
Feb 7, 2008, 12:25 PM
Not many people have mentioned one of the important advantages (for me) of the MBA -- the screen with its LED backlighting. It is extremely bright and clear and is clearly superior to the current MB's screen. I also think, after using the MBA for a couple of days, that anyone who carries the MBA around will never want to go back to something that weighs over 2 pounds more. It makes a much bigger difference than you would think.

diabolic
Feb 7, 2008, 12:29 PM
The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.

Do you really believe that they designed the Air without any focus groups or customer input? The chance of that is zero. I am certain they consulted their target market extensively.

If anything, it looks more like a design based on customer surveys and opinions. Most people don't need more than 1 USB port. They don't need firewire. They hardly use the optical drive. Most people I know would never willingly use a shrunken keyboard or screen. Most people want less weight. Sounds perfect to me.

NAG
Feb 7, 2008, 12:30 PM
The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.

And why shouldn't they? If you want a computer designed by comity go buy a Windows computer (remember how many people it took for them to design the off button). And if you really want one designed by comity put linux on it.

Seriously, designing to meet everyone's needs meet no ones needs. Get over yourself. The Macbook Air isn't for you. The Macbook Pro isn't for me. You don't see me complaining about it.

mhaas
Feb 7, 2008, 12:30 PM
The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.

They decided that they weren't going to compromise the screen and keyboard size, and defined ultraportable as thin and 3 lbs of weight.

To meet that, something had to be compromised, so goodbye ports, optical drive, use an iPod hard drive, etc.

The problem - many of Apple's loyal customers looked at the 12" PowerBook as a great size, and wanted a current technology replacement for that. Take away an optical drive and make it external, thin it out a little, and give it that Powerbook form factor, along with the current crop of ports found in other laptops, and I think many, many people would gladly hand over money to upgrade their PowerBooks. That design would also still attract a whole new group of customers looking for something thinner and lighter than the MacBook or MacBook Pro.

So, Apple comes out and says "we created the world's thinnest notebook" and alot of customers are saying "so what - its not what I want. Too many compromises to get that sales moniker"

You can easily dismiss them and say "if you don't like it, don't buy it." How does this help Apple? They just lost a potential sale from somebody who WANTS to buy a product from them, if only it was the right product.

The Air is creating a lot of controversy simply because there are customers who have their own design ideas on what constitutes an ultraportable, versus Apple's own ideas. A little bit of communication up front on Apple's part to talk to their customers to find out WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO THEM would've produced a laptop that got much broader market acceptance on its introduction, in my opinion, and created an instant hit. Instead, they get division and controversy.

How is this good for the Air and Apple?

With the macbook introduction Apple switched completly to widescreen format. I don't think they will bring a 12" notebook anymore, it just does not fit with Apple's product lineup.

As to Apple loosing sales because of the AIR, do you really think so? I don't! Maybe you have noticed how many Apple owners are adding an AIR as their second or third Apple computer and this forum is only a small part of real buyers.

Plus the AIR will attract fashion buyers who see it as the gadget of the year.
So, I already now think it will be a success, I have not decided to get, but I believe Apple knew what it was doing...