OS X 10.5.2 (9C31) Seeded, Safari 3.1 Beta Incorporates Latest Webkit Features

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The wait for Leopard 10.5.2 continues, with a 1 digit build increment (9C31) seeded today. The latest developer build offers fixes to a networking connectivity issue, and reportedly has no known issues. Apple seeded build 9C30 just two days ago.

Meanwhile, in non-10.5.2 news, Apple has seeded a new build of Safari 3.1 to developers today. The new release seems to incorporate much of what has been implemented in the Webkit (http://www.webkit.org) builds since the last major release.

New features include (links to Webkit.org descriptions):

- HTML5 audio and video tags (http://webkit.org/blog/140/html5-media-support/): "The new HTML5 and elements add native support for embedding video and audio content in web pages. They also provide a rich scripting API for controlling playback."
- HTML5 SQL storage API (http://webkit.org/blog/126/webkit-does-html5-client-side-database-storage/): "The client-side database storage API allows web applications to store structured data locally using a medium many web developers are already familiar with - SQL."

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/02/06/191737-db_300.png

- getElementsByClassName (http://webkit.org/blog/153/webkit-gets-native-getelementsbyclassname/): "getElementsByClassName is one of the more common functions requested by JavaScript programmers (and added by JavaScript libraries); it works along the same lines as getElementsByTagName and getElementById in looking up elements of a web page by their properties."
- Downloadable fonts (http://webkit.org/blog/124/downloadable-fonts/): "With font face rules you can specify downloadable custom fonts on your Web pages or alias one font to another. More details (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssatten)."
- CSS Transforms (http://webkit.org/blog/130/css-transforms/) and CSS Animations (http://webkit.org/blog/138/css-animation/)

The latest beta builds of Safari also address a number of significant fixes. Safari is currently at version 3.0.4.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/06/os-x-10-5-2-9c31-seeded-safari-3-1-beta-incorporates-latest-webkit-features/)

[Harpo]

The endless wait...!

[kabunaru]

Just release it already. Stop toying with us Apple.

[Eidorian]

You're killing us Apple. I need to show the newbies here how to make a Leopard image and I want 10.5.2 to push on it.

[lostfan916]

Gah! The wait is killing me, but a) I don't need it and b)I can wait because the longer the wait the better it will be.

Is Safari available on the Apple Dev. Connection site? I just see a new build for Windows and a new build for Safari Tiger... Or was this just sent to the "special" developers. :confused:

[ventro]

Did they fix the text-shadow bug? On Safari if you do a text shadow with an offset of -1px, it doesn't show up. You have to tell it to do -2px for it to show the 1px shadow. But then it looks all messed up on Safari for iPhone and Safari 3 for Tiger (it offsets 2px). Can anyone verify if this bug is fixed?

[Sky Blue]

blimey!

This will truely be The King of Updates !

[xUKHCx]

Gah! The wait is killing me, but a) I don't need it and b)I can wait because the longer the wait the better it will be.

Is Safari available on the Apple Dev. Connection site? I just see a new build for Windows and a new build for Safari Tiger... Or was this just sent to the "special" developers. :confused:

Would that be the site that has the OS updates as well :confused:

Anyway if you want to see what the latest Safari will be like why not try webkit nightly (http://nightly.webkit.org/), you can use nightshift (http://web.mac.com/reinholdpenner/Software/NightShift.html) to download it automatically and you can schedule it with lingon if you really want to.

[Cromulent]

Surely a longer wait is better?

I bet all those saying Apple should release it now would be back whinging and whining if they found a bug in it. Just be glad that Apple are actually trying to fix as many bugs as they can instead of just releasing it as fast as possible.

[Correia]

I'm sick of hearing about this seed that seed .. seed this ... seed that. I'd rather all the talk of 10.5.2 disappears and only talk about it when it comes up! The wait is killing me, and the talk about it is killing me even more!

AHHH!!!! Damn you Steve Jobs!!!

Hurry 10.5.2!!!!!

[dynamicd]

Are there odds in Vegas about when this will actually be released?

[cogsinister]

I think that website that predicted that the bulids would get up to 9C40 before it was released we not far off the mark eh ...

[twoodcc]

well hopefully 10.5.2 will be really good when it finally gets released.

sounds like a very nice update for safari as well. looking forward to it

[AlphaAnt]

Are there odds in Vegas about when this will actually be released?

Considering the seed release escalation, I'd wager by Friday, if not tomorrow.

[MacUser226]

Why must you do this to Steve!!?!?!? I know you want it to be perfect but the wait is so painful!


Considering the seed release escalation, I'd wager by Friday, if not tomorrow.

Yeah its more than likely that the less days between seeds the sooner it will be released. they are probably just touching it up now. i completely agree with you on Friday...im hoping tomorrow though if were lucky!

[imwoblin]

Esto me esta haciendo loco!!

[onicon]

i propose (the very old and often cited, but nevertheless still surprisingly popular) 10.5.2 on friday new mbp on tuesday :rolleyes:

[timothyjay2004]

Are there odds in Vegas about when this will actually be released?

I'm guessing tuesday or later because of safari 3.1. The odds appear to be in favor of the house...

[Sky Blue]

the first post used to say "10.5.2 needed for Safari 3.1" is this no longer the case?

[pit29]

I'm looking forward to the new Safari - hope it will get somewhat snappier, eventually.

(Sorry, but someone was going to post this anyway, so thats covered now...) :cool:

[lostfan916]

Would that be the site that has the OS updates as well :confused:

Anyway if you want to see what the latest Safari will be like why not try webkit nightly (http://nightly.webkit.org/), you can use nightshift (http://web.mac.com/reinholdpenner/Software/NightShift.html) to download it automatically and you can schedule it with lingon if you really want to.

There's a free membership that you can sign up for, and I did to get the latest Safari for Window's builds, and you get some other little download things. There's also the membership where you pay a lot and have to be special :D and then you get the latest builds I think.

I guess I'll just wait...Safari is one of the things that I think needs an update.

[eraser85]

we'll get another type of super tuesday with MBPs and super friday with 10.5.2!! Of that I AM SURE!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::cool: :eek:

[xUKHCx]

There's a free membership that you can sign up for, and I did to get the latest Safari for Window's builds, and you get some other little download things. There's also the membership where you pay a lot and have to be special :D and then you get the latest builds I think.

I guess I'll just wait...Safari is one of the things that I think needs an update.

I know about the free one, I am on it. All pre release stuff gets put on the paid for accounts so assumed that you had a paid account as you were wondering where it is and therefore was confused as to why you couldn't get 10.5.2.

Try webkit nightly if you want to see what safari will be like, basically the same but faster, or as the old MR adage goes snappier.

[ppnkg]

Good, good, work on it Apple!

[mwp98223]

"a networking connectivity issue"

I sure hope that means the crazy issue with trying to see and/or connect to Windows computers on my home network and/or Windows machines that see my iMac but can't connect. I have tried every published fix with inconsistent results. Sometimes the computers are non-existent, sometimes they show in the "shared" section of finder, but I am unable to connect, sometimes they can be seen and connected using the "Go" dropdown in finder....nothing consistent, no permanent fix, but a guaranteed head scratching, mind-numbing frustrating experience...

PLEASE be fixed already.

[sethro]

So Safari 3.1 will be for Leopard exclusively? No Tiger love :(

[ramallite]

Good, good, work on it Apple!

Anyway, 10.5.2 apparently needs some tweaking for compatibility with forthcoming hardware as well, which is probably why it's a bit more delayed. If the rumors of a new MPB on Tuesday are true, that would explain the delay even more I think.

[cwheatley]

has anyone else noticed the removal of 10.5.2 as a requirement to the new safari build from the original post?

kinda dumb. if 10.5.2 were a requirement of the new safari build, i'm pretty sure that would mean 10.5.2 would have been released SOONSOONSOON.

oh well =\

[nemaslov]

Gah! The wait is killing me, but a) I don't need it and b)I can wait because the longer the wait the better it will be.

Is Safari available on the Apple Dev. Connection site? I just see a new build for Windows and a new build for Safari Tiger... Or was this just sent to the "special" developers. :confused:

What's the matter? Your computer not working? It'll be out when its ready!!!

[decimortis]

This is gonna make 10.5.3 take even longer!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[MBX]

we'll get another type of super tuesday with MBPs and super friday with 10.5.2!! Of that I AM SURE!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::cool: :eek:

i think so too

[ghall]

This is gonna make 10.5.3 take even longer!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

NOOOOO!!!! I can't wait until 10.5.3!!!!

Seriously though, I'm starting to get a bit sick of hearing about these seeds. I just want the update already. :p New Build of 10.5.2 Seeded to Developers is starting to get a little old.

[cwheatley]

This is gonna make 10.5.3 take even longer!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

aw man! i heard that was going to be a good one, too... ;)

[lostfan916]

What's the matter? Your computer not working? It'll be out when its ready!!!
I know, which is why I said I don't really need it (just had some minor problems with Safari, PB and Spaces) and that the longer the wait the better it will be. ;);)

[EagerDragon]

That Safari SQL capability sounds unsecured to me. I can imagine applications and users storing personal data in a local SQL database and some hacker comes alone and reads all the data using SQL Injection.

Ouch!
I guess we will find out in a month or two.

[solipsism]

Released tomorrow around 12:30pm PST.

[Thunderpuppy]

We just can't wait!!! Hurry Hurry Hurry

Video it when you send it for testing!

Mac Rules!!!!

[EagerDragon]

This is gonna make 10.5.3 take even longer!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

10.6.0 is next after 10.5.2 to get ahead of Windows 7. Need all the OSX developers to work on 10.6. Sorry no 10.5.3.

LOL, ;)

[James17]

I hope some performance and reliability issues are fixed in the update for Safari whenever it is released.

[manu chao]

One should hope that there won't be another 10.5.2 seed with no known issues with all the issues caused by the seed.

[TheChemist]

With respects to Safari 3.1. I have been using Webkit and I do hope that Safari 3.1 is as quick as Webkit.

Time (and the release) will tell.
:)

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I think we'll be seeing one update per week for this year. (Like what Steve alluded to in the keynote) So next week we'll either see 10.5.2 or Macbook Pro update. And then sometime this month the iPhone SDK, followed by Take Two and then Time Capsule.

[Spike Lightfoot]

Released tomorrow around 12:30pm PST.

Yeah, that's my bet too. There's probably just one guy holding this up. Some dude in Toledo that didn't like the font used in the new Network prefpane. Somebody better find this guy and do a number on him. Network connectivity... He's probably got a flaky router.

[jphall]

New HP printer driver, FINALLY! I now can print and scan with my Leopard installed MacBook Pro!

Anyway, check out the Fixes at the bottom of the image. Hmmm, wonder what that means. Heh, heh. Point 2 must be coming soon, eh?

Come on, Apple! Get the .2 out!

[darthraige]

Maybe 10.5.2 really is done and they do have a deadline to release, but in the meantime, they keep adding more things onto it until its finally released. For all we know, if Time Capsule is coming out a specific date this month, expect 10.5.2 to arrive on or before that day. :)

[kainjow]

That Safari SQL capability sounds unsecured to me. I can imagine applications and users storing personal data in a local SQL database and some hacker comes alone and reads all the data using SQL Injection.

I'm sure Apple is making it as secure as can be.

I'm betting that when the SDK ships, Safari 3.1 will be come on the iPhone. Weren't these database features rumored a few months ago? They'd be perfect for someone writing a web app and using the iPhone for database storage (notes, todos, etc).

[roland.g]

This is actually starting to get a little ridiculous. I understand with the size of it and the fact that 5.3 will be some time behind that they want to get it right, but it is really bordering on obsessive. I would also have to assume that this will somehow further disrupt the Apple TV take 2 update beyond the extra week or two.

[motulist]

Some dude in Toledo that didn't like the font used in the new Network prefpane. Somebody better find this guy and do a number on him. Network connectivity... He's probably got a flaky router.

Yeah right, because everyone knows that leopard doesn't have any major network connectivity problems. :rolleyes:

[Peace]

Yeah, that's my bet too. There's probably just one guy holding this up. Some dude in Toledo that didn't like the font used in the new Network prefpane. Somebody better find this guy and do a number on him. Network connectivity... He's probably got a flaky router.


In respect for the folks that test this in the wild , bugs aren't normally a singular thing. They happen across a good size spectrum so please show a little more respect for the people that do the dirty work so you can have a better platform. :)

[grappler]

It'll be cool when that local SQL-storage-in-the-browser makes its way to Safari on iPhone...

[Westside guy]

getElementsByClassName would be extremely handy; but only if it's implemented in IE and Firefox.

It looks like Firefox has it; but I don't see anything regarding IE either way.

[UMHurricanes34]

Keep the seeds flowing and get us the public release!

[berkleeboy210]

10.5.2. Friday, MacBook Pros Tuesday. :apple:

[notnek]

c'mon already.

[MacAddict1978]

heh.... this has been said after every build!
Considering the seed release escalation, I'd wager by Friday, if not tomorrow.

[FreeState]

getElementsByClassName would be extremely handy; but only if it's implemented in IE and Firefox.

It looks like Firefox has it; but I don't see anything regarding IE either way.

Yeah and seeing it took MS many years for proper PNG support in IE I wont be counting on it until at least 2012 :D

[Kar98]

10.5.2. Friday, MacBook Pros Tuesday. :apple:

And Duke Nukem 4ever "when it's done" :D

[iCeFuSiOn]

And Duke Nukem 4ever "when it's done" :D
:D Hahaha. I'm glad to see that Apple is taking their time on 10.5.2 and fixing as many things as they can, then there won't be so much fanfare around 10.5.3 :P

[tcoleman]

New HP printer driver, FINALLY! I now can print and scan with my Leopard installed MacBook Pro!

Anyway, check out the Fixes at the bottom of the image. Hmmm, wonder what that means. Heh, heh. Point 2 must be coming soon, eh?

Come on, Apple! Get the .2 out!

Hey, thanks for the tip! I didn't know that HP had finally released drivers for Leopard. :cool:

[Wild-Bill]

The latest developer build offers fixes to a networking connectivity issue

You mean the networking issue where Leopard refuses to find your network because the SSID is disabled? :rolleyes:

[Spike Lightfoot]

In respect for the folks that test this in the wild , bugs aren't normally a singular thing. They happen across a good size spectrum so please show a little more respect for the people that do the dirty work so you can have a better platform. :)

Sorry, the web interface apparently didn't like my <obvious sarcasm> and </obvious sarcasm> tags and left them off.

[badNameErr]

I'd rather all the talk of 10.5.2 disappears and only talk about it when it comes up!

Well, that is the way it is MEANT to be. We only hear about it because people insist on breaking their NDAs. :mad:

[hugodrax]

I dont get it its just a service pack. 10.5.1 is working fine here so I wont notice any difference with 10.5.2 anyhow.

[MacFly123]

10.6.0 is next after 10.5.2 to get ahead of Windows 7. Need all the OSX developers to work on 10.6. Sorry no 10.5.3.

LOL, ;)

So 10.6 is about 2 years out right? When do you think we will start hearing rumors or anything about it and it's features etc? I know it is crazy cause Leopard just came out lol. I'm just curious about how far before the release things start to get out.

What would people like to see in 10.6? Any ideas, innovations, etc? I'm guessing more Multi-Touch. I think they are dripping that all in now to get people ready with the laptops. And I suspect we will see a new Multi-Touch mouse for the desktops to gain these new features that the laptops are getting :)

[tcoleman]

You mean the networking issue where Leopard refuses to find your network because the SSID is disabled? :rolleyes:

How about the networking issue where your wireless connection slows down and halts during a large download? :mad:

[byeehaaw]

the wiat continues.....

[Quillz]

Just waiting for 10.5.2 for the improvements it brings to Stacks and the menu bar.

[RoboCop001]

How about the networking issue where your wireless connection slows down and halts during a large download? :mad:

How large of a download? I never have problems :)

[zorinlynx]

Yeah right, because everyone knows that leopard doesn't have any major network connectivity problems. :rolleyes:

Aside from Novatel wireless cards on PPC, Leopard has been rock-solid network-wise in my experience.

I dunno if people have "weird" networks out there or what... But I've never had any issues here.

[Matrix9180]

getElementsByClassName would be extremely handy; but only if it's implemented in IE and Firefox.

It looks like Firefox has it; but I don't see anything regarding IE either way.

getElementsByClassName is typically implemented by whatever javascript library you're using (Prototype, etc). Having a native implementation simply makes it faster for Safari users, it will still work fine for other browsers that don't have a native implementation.

[mac-er]

Are these Webkit features the things that are missing that cause websites to not match new appearances/functionality that work in Firefox?

For example, HP (http://www.hp.com) appears to have redesigned its webpage, which you can see in Firefox, but not in Safari.

And, Vanguard's (https://personal.vanguard.com/us/home) website has some functionality on Firefox (under News & Commentary) that doesn't work in Safari.

[jakebarnes]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I can't get read/write permissions to work on SMB

[cogsinister]

I dont get it its just a service pack. 10.5.1 is working fine here so I wont notice any difference with 10.5.2 anyhow.

Yes you will....everything that is working fine now will be broken AFTER 10.5.2 !!

:D

[eastcoastsurfer]

So has Apple enabled/fixed TM/AirDisk in 10.5.2 yet? Or are they still going to screw the people who didn't wait for Time Capsule?

[motulist]

Aside from Novatel wireless cards on PPC, Leopard has been rock-solid network-wise in my experience.

I dunno if people have "weird" networks out there or what... But I've never had any issues here.

Why is it that some people can't comprehend that just because they aren't having a problem that it means that others who are having problems must be doing something "weird."

There are tons of people who are having major airport / wifi problems after upgrading to leopard.

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=9211516

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=9211532

[tacojohn]

Are these Webkit features the things that are missing that cause websites to not match new appearances/functionality that work in Firefox?

For example, HP (http://www.hp.com) appears to have redesigned its webpage, which you can see in Firefox, but not in Safari.

And, Vanguard's (https://personal.vanguard.com/us/home) website has some functionality on Firefox (under News & Commentary) that doesn't work in Safari.

That's strange, they looks equally as ****** in both browsers for me...

[fuziwuzi]

i propose (the very old and often cited, but nevertheless still surprisingly popular) 10.5.2 on friday new mbp on tuesday :rolleyes:

this is the time frame i am hoping for. shame there is no way of telling, now, if that will be the case.

[Mindflux]

There are tons of people who are having major airport / wifi problems after upgrading to leopard.




Is that "upgrading" as in Over-the-top of Tiger, or upgrading as in "I blew Tiger away and put Leopard on a fresh disk?".

Because the Latter is what I did and I have nary a wireless problem to be seen.

[xUKHCx]

Is that "upgrading" as in Over-the-top of Tiger, or upgrading as in "I blew Tiger away and put Leopard on a fresh disk?".

Because the Latter is what I did and I have nary a wireless problem to be seen.

Both, for me I think it is a combination of things, my problems seem to happen because of a netgear router + leopard as when I was home for Christmas on a linksys no problems at all and before upgrading to leopard no problems.

[BWhaler]

More good news.

I have two hopes about this huge release:

1. It makes Leopard to be a high quality OS. I really hope Apple is trying to kill all of the big and medium bugs in one release. Sure, there will always be bugs, but hopefully 10.5.2 will make Leopard great.

2. The fact that Apple is trying to get Leopard really solid in one release--when in the past they would spread things out over many releases--is because they are excited to build on Leopard and the new interface ideas they have in the labs. A major update with iLife 09, iWork 09, Pro Apps, and 10.6, and they can't wait to get there. Hopefully they are trying to get 10.5 solid enough they can put it in "maintenance mode" and put most engineering resources on the future.

#2 is a fantasy since I think Apple is working on crazy cool stuff. But if I just get #1, and Leopard and it's apps are really solid--AND .Mac--I'll be really happy.

[Mindflux]

Both, for me I think it is a combination of things, my problems seem to happen because of a netgear router + leopard as when I was home for Christmas on a linksys no problems at all and before upgrading to leopard no problems.


Differences in N spec?

I run an Airport Extreme (Gig-E/N) and the only thing I have issues with is AirDisk, which is probably a problem with the Extreme and Leopard (since Airdisk's seemed 'better' (but not great) in Tiger).

[mac-er]

That's strange, they looks equally as ****** in both browsers for me...

HP's site in Firefox is all black and looks totally different. In Safari, it is the same site they have had for awhile.

Under Vanguard's News & Commentary section, there are some rollover 'pop-up' things when you hover, but not in Safari.

Anyone who has something to add know if this Webkit stuff is what drives this and why Safari doesn't display the same?

[MKnight]

Has anyone thought about being productive and doing other things other than constantly complaining and hitting refresh on their browser waiting for the update??

It's done when it's done...that's how software works...

[tcoleman]

Both, for me I think it is a combination of things, my problems seem to happen because of a netgear router + leopard as when I was home for Christmas on a linksys no problems at all and before upgrading to leopard no problems.

That could be. I too have a Netgear router. I have a hard time downloading over about 100 MB at a time. And my Leopard was factory installed.

[stevegmu]

Why is it that some people can't comprehend that just because they aren't having a problem that it means that others who are having problems must be doing something "weird."

There are tons of people who are having major airport / wifi problems after upgrading to leopard.

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=9211516

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=9211532

The software is the same out of the box. Unless there are hardware defects, the only variables would be users or 3rd party software/hardware.

[Eric S.]

What would people like to see in 10.6?

I know I'd like to see Classic mode come back. :mad:

But I'm afraid what we'll see is Apple dropping all support for PPC going forward.

[kabunaru]

Released tomorrow around 12:30pm PST.

How sure are you?

[motulist]

Is that "upgrading" as in Over-the-top of Tiger, or upgrading as in "I blew Tiger away and put Leopard on a fresh disk?".

Because the Latter is what I did and I have nary a wireless problem to be seen.

Read the threads in the searches I linked to. My install was a clean install. The major networking problems that many people are having is a huge leopard bug. It doesn't affect all people's networks, it affects networks in certain common configurations.

[Mindflux]

Read the threads in the searches I linked to. My install was a clean install. The major networking problems that many people are having is a huge leopard bug. It doesn't affect all people's networks, it affects networks in certain common configurations.



Fair enough. I understand that some people have problems. I didn't say they didn't exist. I'm just glad I don't have them because I'd be as frustrated as you guys!

I would like the AirDisk to work as 'promised', coupled with Time Machine writing to them (without a hack).

[Wild-Bill]

Is that "upgrading" as in Over-the-top of Tiger, or upgrading as in "I blew Tiger away and put Leopard on a fresh disk?".

Because the Latter is what I did and I have nary a wireless problem to be seen.

As in, made a copy of the Tiger install onto an external HDD (just in case) and nuked the drive & fresh-installed Leopard.

Won't see my wireless network unless I enable SSID broadcast. It was hit or miss for a while, but then just plain stopped finding it. And this is from 12 feet away from the router or less, in the same room. Trust me, it's Leopard.

[motulist]

The software is the same out of the box. Unless there are hardware defects, the only variables would be users or 3rd party software.

You're wrong. Some network setups have a problem under leopard and some don't.

Let me explain just my particular scenario so you can get an idea. I had 2 different models powerbooks. Both could access several open public networks just using the Automatic location setting in system prefs. After upgrading the 2 laptops a few days apart from each other, the leopard install could no longer connect at the very same time as the earlier OS was connecting with no problem. Not only can't it connect under the automatic settings, but even no matter how I change the settings it still can't connect. When my girlfriend brings her vista laptop over, it also can connect to the open networks using vista's automatic settings.

It couldn't be more clear, the networking problem is from leopard.

[stevegmu]

You're wrong. Some network setups have a problem under leopard and some don't.

Let me explain just my particular scenario so you can get an idea. I had 2 different models powerbooks. Both could access several open public networks just using the Automatic location setting in system prefs. After upgrading the 2 laptops a few days apart from each other, the leopard install could no longer connect at the very same time as the earlier OS was connecting with no problem. Not only can't it connect under the automatic settings, but even no matter how I change the settings it still can't connect. When my girlfriend brings her vista laptop over, it also can connect to the open networks using vista's automatic settings.

It couldn't be more clear, the networking problem is from leopard.

I just edited my post while you were posting this to include hardware.

This problem you have must happen with everyone then?

[parapup]

Damn it - Safari instead of feeling snappier broke Macrumors - both Windows and Mac Versions.

[dan3L]

That could be. I too have a Netgear router. I have a hard time downloading over about 100 MB at a time. And my Leopard was factory installed.

There seems to be a wide variety of network gremlins that show up differently in different combinations. While I had Tiger I had small issues in linking to my Windoze machines through my Linksys router. Once I went to Leopard, the local network issues were all solved. After Leopard my internet experience dropped from an average of 4 Mbps down to 300 kbps down. The Windoze machines had no problem. I bought a Airport Extreme gb/n. Now everything is great. Go figure.

[CWallace]

While we're young, Apple...

Of course, I should complain, since so far Leopard has been bullet-proof for me. No doubt one of these fixes will break something and that will teach me. :D

[motulist]

Fair enough. I understand that some people have problems. I didn't say they didn't exist. I'm just glad I don't have them because I'd be as frustrated as you guys!

Yep, you're right, it's totally frustrating. It's only made more frustrating by some people who say things like "my network is working fine under leopard, so it must be a problem with your hardware or software setup."

Another thing that makes it even more frustrating is kind of ironic, which is that other than the major wifi problem, leopard is such an awesome OS! So I don't want to downgrade to my previous OS until they fix the problem, because leopard has tons of awesome stuff that I've already come to rely on. But wireless is such a major part of computing today, that's kind of like saying I love my new Lexus, it's super comfortable, gets great millage, looks great, and has great handling, but there's one problem - the engine doesn't start.

[Jeff Hall]

You guys crack me up. I was the first person to walk out of the Irvine Spectrum apple store with OS X Leopard. And you know what? I put it on my shelf where it still sits unopened.

I've been waiting since October to put a copy of Leopard on my MBP that was verified to work flawlessly with my Airport Extreme and Parallels. It sounds like it is just about ready to take out of the oven, but like a good brownie, I'm guessing it'll need another week or so to "cool" before it's ready for me to bite into!

[motulist]

I just edited my post while you were posting this to include hardware.

This problem you have must happen with everyone then?

BUT THE PROBLEM ISN'T WITH THE HARDWARE I'M USING, THE PROBLEM IS IN LEOPARD!!! Read my post which describes the details of the problem to see just how certain it is that the problem is with leopard connecting to the network, rather than a problem with the network itself.

[irishgrizzly]

10.6.0 is next after 10.5.2 to get ahead of Windows 7. Need all the OSX developers to work on 10.6. Sorry no 10.5.3.

LOL, ;)

yeah, yeah very funny – I'm sick of waiting for 10.5.2. I'm starting to feel ill just thinking about it. I want my life back Apple!!!

It haunts me.

[stevegmu]

BUT THE PROBLEM ISN'T WITH THE HARDWARE I'M USING, THE PROBLEM IS IN LEOPARD!!! Read my other post to see just how certain it is that the problem is with leopard connecting to the network, rather than a problem with the network itself.

I read it. You installed Leopard on a PowerBook, and it can no longer connect to a network it once connected to. All things being equal, every other PowerBook with Leopard will also not work on that network, correct? If any other PowerBook with Leopard does work on said network, it is a user error, or hardware failure.

[DaBrain]

This is gonna make 10.5.3 take even longer!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Really! And just think, we will be waiting forever for 10.5.12--)))):eek:

[ltldrummerboy]

10.5.2 will (should) be flawless, pristine, exemplary, and second to none.

[zoozx]

10.5.2 must suck.

Skip it and give me 10.5.3 :( :(

[TheQuestion]

Safari has been getting snappier with every iteration since it was a beta at .7

The speed is getting a little overwhelming. Perhaps the latest version will allow me to catch my breath.

[Westside guy]

getElementsByClassName is typically implemented by whatever javascript library you're using (Prototype, etc). Having a native implementation simply makes it faster for Safari users, it will still work fine for other browsers that don't have a native implementation.

I understand that there have been javascript functions that basically do getElementsByClassName (heck, I've written them myself); but native implementations of that sort of thing are just so bloody much faster than javascript kludges - especially for very large pages, which is precisely where I'd find this useful.

I've never seen the point in using someone else's canned javascript library; but then I've been doing this since before such a beast existed so maybe I'm just stubborn. :D

[AidenShaw]

Is that "upgrading" as in Over-the-top of Tiger, or upgrading as in "I blew Tiger away and put Leopard on a fresh disk?".

I just have to laugh when I see comments like this and comments like "It just works" in the forum.

It seems like Windows is improving and OSX is growing warts - pretty soon there won't be much difference ;) ...

10.5.2 will (should) be flawless, pristine, exemplary, and second to none.

Again, Aiden knows sarcasm when he sees it... :D

[Westside guy]

Yeah and seeing it took MS many years for proper PNG support in IE I wont be counting on it until at least 2012 :D

IE 7 still doesn't handle dynamic opacity, as far as I can tell. :D

[kabunaru]

Really! And just think, we will be waiting forever for 10.5.12--)))):eek:
I am predicting we will see Mac OS 10.5.12 in 2010 at least.;)

[UMHurricanes34]

So 10.6 is about 2 years out right? When do you think we will start hearing rumors or anything about it and it's features etc? I know it is crazy cause Leopard just came out lol. I'm just curious about how far before the release things start to get out.

What would people like to see in 10.6? Any ideas, innovations, etc? I'm guessing more Multi-Touch. I think they are dripping that all in now to get people ready with the laptops. And I suspect we will see a new Multi-Touch mouse for the desktops to gain these new features that the laptops are getting :)

Maybe I was dreaming but I swear Steve announced that they'd be previewing 10.6 Puma at this years WWDC. I'm pretty sure when he finished talking about Leopard at WWDC 07 he announced this.


Am I senile?

[stevegmu]

I just have to laugh when I see comments like this and comments like "It just works" in the forum.

It seems like Windows is improving and OSX is growing warts - pretty soon there won't be much difference ;) ...

Yeah, Windows is improving so much, that virtually everyone I know who initially installed Vista is back to SP2.

[dan3L]

Maybe I was dreaming but I swear Steve announced that they'd be previewing 10.6 Puma at this years WWDC. I'm pretty sure when he finished talking about Leopard at WWDC 07 he announced this.


Am I senile?

Puma was 10.1

[AidenShaw]

Yeah, Windows is improving so much, that virtually everyone I know who initially installed Vista is back to SP2.

We both must hang out with luddites, most of my Apple-using friends who've tried Leopard went back to Tiger.

How Apple could have let the WiFi connection problems out to its customers amazes me....

[megfilmworks]

We both must hang out with luddites, most of my Apple-using friends who've tried Leopard went back to Tiger.

How Apple could have let the WiFi connection problems out to its customers amazes me....
I'm confused, I own 7 macs of all varieties from my dual G5s to my MBPs (one power PC one intel) and a couple of iMacs. I installed Leopard on all (except my Protools G5, digidesign dropped the ball on the core audio drivers) and I am on a wireless network at home and at work and everything runs fine. I have a hard time believing the posts that complain... Am I just unusually lucky or are the posters with bad experiences very unlucky or worse?
In my business if you can't repeat a suspected software problem on all similar hardware
then you have just ruled out the software.

[burgen]

I hope they really fix the tab managing of safari. Open targe=_blank links in Tabs already

[manhattanboy]

Apple please fix safari;
ever since 10.5 upgrade my safari has crashed more times than a drugged-up Britney Spears:eek:

[Stridder44]

I'm confused, I own 7 macs of all varieties from my dual G5s to my MBPs (one power PC one intel) and a couple of iMacs. I installed Leopard on all (except my Protools G5, digidesign dropped the ball on the core audio drivers) and I am on a wireless network at home and at work and everything runs fine. I have a hard time believing the posts that complain...


Ignorant poster is ignorant.

[digitalbiker]

Safari has been getting snappier with every iteration since it was a beta at .7

The speed is getting a little overwhelming. Perhaps the latest version will allow me to catch my breath.

Ahhh, come on, you have to be joking. Safari is one of the worst browsers out there. It crashes regularly. It can't render many sites properly. It also is querky in the way it renders a page. The dimensions keep changing and gui elements move around until the page is fully rendered.

By contrast, firefox on the mac, and IE on windows are both faster. Rendered pages are mapped out first and then gui elements are rendered but they don't constantly resize while rendering. They also handle more websites correctly and play more embedded video / audio.

Apple has fallen behind in the browser area. I for one would like to see a complete re-make of safari with a user friendly Apple flair.

[macFanDave]

God, I hope they fix the Firewall! If I put the setting to "allow essential services", iPhoto finally opens up without asking me to Allow/Deny connections and requiring the admin userid/passwd EVERY TIME! But, then AppleTV doesn't work.

I go back to the Allow Specific Apps choice and AppleTV works, but then iPhoto goes back to hassling me all the time (even though it is in the approved list!)

I just discovered this tonight. . . I may just file a bug report.

[Mindflux]

Ignorant poster is ignorant.


Quoted poster works for the Redundant department of redundancies department.

[motulist]

Ahhh, come on, you have to be joking. Safari is one of the worst browsers out there. It crashes regularly. It can't render many sites properly.

Safari seems to be one of those things that's highly variable from machine to machine. I've had leopard for a couple of months and it hasn't crashed even once. And I use it quite heavily and I use many of its fancy new features too. Also, since upgrading to leopard I haven't encountered any websites that render improperly. I wonder if there's a way to improve safari's behavior on your machine. I assume you've already tried all the basic tricks like trashing prefs and doing a clean OS install instead of an upgrade install.

[kirkbross]

It seems like "issues" will be continuing to roll in forever -- at what point does Apple say, "okay, the next issue that comes up will have to wait until 10.5.3" ?

[digitalbiker]

Safari seems to be one of those things that's highly variable from machine to machine. I've had leopard for a couple of months and it hasn't crashed even once. And I use it quite heavily and I use many of its fancy new features too. Also, since upgrading to leopard I haven't encountered any websites that render improperly. I wonder if there's a way to improve safari's behavior on your machine. I assume you've already tried all the basic tricks like trashing prefs and doing a clean OS install instead of an upgrade install.

I see the same basic performance on different machines that I own. Some were upgraded, some were clean installed, that doesn't seem to make a difference. What seems to make the difference are the websites that one visits. Some sites are fine some are not.

However the constantly changing page dimensions that annoy me to no end is always an issue on large pages. It has to do with the way Apple chose to render a page. Also the reload and stop button is a joke. It won't let you stop rendering a page until the page is complete, so what is the point.

[mambodancer]

Maybe I was dreaming but I swear Steve announced that they'd be previewing 10.6 Puma at this years WWDC. I'm pretty sure when he finished talking about Leopard at WWDC 07 he announced this.


Am I senile?

10.0 - Cheetah
10.1 - Puma
10.2 - Jaguar
10.3 - Panther
10.4 - Tiger
10.5 - Leopard

Been there, done that Cat. Sorry.

[MacFly123]

Maybe I was dreaming but I swear Steve announced that they'd be previewing 10.6 Puma at this years WWDC. I'm pretty sure when he finished talking about Leopard at WWDC 07 he announced this.


Am I senile?

Are you being serious? I don't think so lol. As far as I know NOTHING has been said anywhere about 10.6 or if it will even be 10.6 or OS 11 or what. I would think they would stick with 10.6 just because they have such a strong brand going with OS X.

[Mindflux]

10.0 - Cheetah
10.1 - Puma
10.2 - Jaguar
10.3 - Panther
10.4 - Tiger
10.5 - Leopard

Been there, done that Cat. Sorry.


10.6 - Thundercats
10.7 - Mum-RA (breaking the Cat naming convention, who cares?).

[mambodancer]

See? This is exactly the type of post that pisses me off. "Everything works fine on my setup, so anyone who has a problem must be an idiot or a liar." F you dude. Read my other posts in this thread and the zillions of others like mine in other threads to see just how foolish a statement like that makes you look. Ooo, you're using 7 Macs on 2 different networks, well then that must mean that all the other hundreds of Mac models and zillions and zillions of different network setups must work the same as yours, so if you're able to get yours working fine then it means anyone else that's having a problem must be doing something wrong.

How offensive.

Hey, mine works just fine on my network of Macs too.

Maybe you don't know how to use your Mac?

[arkmannj]

Is that "upgrading" as in Over-the-top of Tiger, or upgrading as in "I blew Tiger away and put Leopard on a fresh disk?".

Because the Latter is what I did and I have nary a wireless problem to be seen.


I know a fresh install is the best route but hoestly since "upgrade" is the default option, that's what most people will doIf Apple is writing the installer properly I don't think it should matter is the user did an upgrade or freh install. If It is the default option, users should be able to expect the same stability etc.

[motulist]

Are you being serious? I don't think so lol. As far as I know NOTHING has been said anywhere about 10.6 or if it will even be 10.6 or OS 11 or what. I would think they would stick with 10.6 just because they have such a strong brand going with OS X.

OS X (10) is going to be hear for at the very least another 8-10 years.

[ColonelSmith]

Yeah, Windows is improving so much, that virtually everyone I know who initially installed Vista is back to SP2.

You just made my night :-)

[motulist]

Hey, mine works just fine on my network of Macs too.

Maybe you don't know how to use your Mac?

Very funny. :rolleyes:

[philbeeney]

New HP printer driver, FINALLY! I now can print and scan with my Leopard installed MacBook Pro!

Anyway, check out the Fixes at the bottom of the image. Hmmm, wonder what that means. Heh, heh. Point 2 must be coming soon, eh?

Come on, Apple! Get the .2 out!

Bloody typical.... I've just downloaded the 9.7 beta for Leopard from a mirror site because the HP site gives me a file not found. :(

[hbt15]

Seriously. Everyone here is acting like this is a whole new OS that is coming out and will completely rejuvenate your particular type of Mac. It's just an update. You will not be blown away. Repeat, you WILL NOT be blown away. You all need to just relax and ride it out. No sooner than 10.5.2 comes out than you'll all be speculating about what they should include in 10.5.3 and then the rumors will start and the merry-go-round continues. Grow up.

[John Dillinger]

However the constantly changing page dimensions that annoy me to no end is always an issue on large pages. It has to do with the way Apple chose to render a page. Also the reload and stop button is a joke. It won't let you stop rendering a page until the page is complete, so what is the point.

I really like safari, especially now i use inquisitor, however it does suck that some webpages dont work properly. Isn't that more to do with the designers not writing pages for safari tho, rather than flaws in safari? For example hotmail only works in 'classic' mode, and it tells you that you would get full functionality using IE 6/7 or firefox... I just figured that was a little way of MS reminding how much macs sucked in comparison or something, and just supported firefox cause its so popular/ sizeable marketshare compared to safari?? A guy asked earlier wether the latest webkit fixed these types of issues and im curious.

Also, my stop/reload button works fine; it stops rendering exactly when i tell it to!

[FJ218700]

Seriously. Everyone here is acting like this is a whole new OS that is coming out and will completely rejuvenate your particular type of Mac. It's just an update. You will not be blown away. Repeat, you WILL NOT be blown away. You all need to just relax and ride it out. No sooner than 10.5.2 comes out than you'll all be speculating about what they should include in 10.5.3 and then the rumors will start and the merry-go-round continues. Grow up.

so true,

noob's already figured this site out.

[koen]

Did they fix the text-shadow bug? On Safari if you do a text shadow with an offset of -1px, it doesn't show up. You have to tell it to do -2px for it to show the 1px shadow. But then it looks all messed up on Safari for iPhone and Safari 3 for Tiger (it offsets 2px). Can anyone verify if this bug is fixed?

Did you file a bug with Apple (http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html)? Then you can check their website to see if your bug has been fixed.

[madmax_2069]

I see the same basic performance on different machines that I own. Some were upgraded, some were clean installed, that doesn't seem to make a difference. What seems to make the difference are the websites that one visits. Some sites are fine some are not.

However the constantly changing page dimensions that annoy me to no end is always an issue on large pages. It has to do with the way Apple chose to render a page. Also the reload and stop button is a joke. It won't let you stop rendering a page until the page is complete, so what is the point.

have you tried webkit, does it help or does it do the same thing.

[madmax_2069]

Seriously. Everyone here is acting like this is a whole new OS that is coming out and will completely rejuvenate your particular type of Mac. It's just an update. You will not be blown away. Repeat, you WILL NOT be blown away. You all need to just relax and ride it out. No sooner than 10.5.2 comes out than you'll all be speculating about what they should include in 10.5.3 and then the rumors will start and the merry-go-round continues. Grow up.

Ahhh, what part of MacRumors didn't you read or understand. google what Mac means and do the same for rumors if you cant figure it out on your own.

[Eric S.]

10.6 - Thundercats
10.7 - Mum-RA (breaking the Cat naming convention, who cares?).

According to Wikipedia, Apple has already registered the Lynx and Cougar trademarks.

[Mindflux]

According to Wikipedia, Apple has already registered the Lynx and Cougar trademarks.


Sarcasm meet Eric. Eric, sarcasm.

Plus, Thundercats is just sweet.

[motulist]

10.6 - Thundercats
10.7 - Mum-RA (breaking the Cat naming convention, who cares?).

10.8 - garfield
10.9 - heathcliff
10.10 - eek

[Eric S.]

Sarcasm meet Eric. Eric, sarcasm.

Sorry, sarcasm is lost on me. This is serious stuff.

[Mindflux]

10.8 - garfield
10.9 - heathcliff
10.10 - eek

10.11 - Chester Cheetah
10.12 - Snagglepuss

[hbt15]

Ahhh, what part of MacRumors didn't you read or understand. google what Mac means and do the same for rumors if you cant figure it out on your own.


Well aware of what a MAC is and what a RUMOR. This 10.5.2 stuff has gone past rumor stage and turned into thread full of obsessive maniacs. I like to read the threads as much as the next guy for often useful info pops up which is excellent. For the last 2 weeks it's just be a disgrace though. I'd hate to see how it's going to be by time it gets to 10.5.8 or .9.

Point i'm trying to make is it's an update. I can not remember the last time an updated got people so excited. Nor can i remember when an update changed anyones life by any meaningful margin.

[Quillz]

Well aware of what a MAC is and what a RUMOR. This 10.5.2 stuff has gone past rumor stage and turned into thread full of obsessive maniacs. I like to read the threads as much as the next guy for often useful info pops up which is excellent. For the last 2 weeks it's just be a disgrace though. I'd hate to see how it's going to be by time it gets to 10.5.8 or .9.

Point i'm trying to make is it's an update. I can not remember the last time an updated got people so excited. Nor can i remember when an update changed anyones life by any meaningful margin.
Normally I'd agree, but 10.5.2 is different in that it's actually bringing new features to the table.

[Bonsai1214]

personally, i'm still one for ocelot..

[FJ218700]

Normally I'd agree, but 10.5.2 is different in that it's actually bringing new features to the table.

features 10.4.0 had :cool:

[erikistired]

can i open links in a new tab without holding down a button? and allow popups on certain sites?

those two things are pretty much what's holding me back from dropping firefox (along with the odd "this browser is not supported" error).

[rendezvouscp]

Did they fix the text-shadow bug? On Safari if you do a text shadow with an offset of -1px, it doesn't show up. You have to tell it to do -2px for it to show the 1px shadow. But then it looks all messed up on Safari for iPhone and Safari 3 for Tiger (it offsets 2px). Can anyone verify if this bug is fixed?

This has been fixed in WebKit, but I can't verify that the fix will be in Safari 3.1; it probably will be.

[mozmac]

I still don't have a computer capable of running Leopard. (iBook G3) However, this summer that will all change. Until then, I will be stoked about one thing in this update: getElementsByClassName hell yeah!

[richard.mac]

does anyone know if the new WebKit update fixes the colour wheels when viewing videos within the QuickTime browser plug-in?

[Quillz]

features 10.4.0 had :cool:Which features are you referring to? Tiger didn't have Stacks, at least not the way it's been implemented into Leopard.

And if you're talking about the menu bar, Leopard and Tiger sport the exact same one, the only differences are cosmetic.

[madmax_2069]

Well aware of what a MAC is and what a RUMOR. This 10.5.2 stuff has gone past rumor stage and turned into thread full of obsessive maniacs. I like to read the threads as much as the next guy for often useful info pops up which is excellent. For the last 2 weeks it's just be a disgrace though. I'd hate to see how it's going to be by time it gets to 10.5.8 or .9.

Point i'm trying to make is it's an update. I can not remember the last time an updated got people so excited. Nor can i remember when an update changed anyones life by any meaningful margin.

you sure you know what MAC is, cause its not the same as what Mac stands for.

MAC = Media Access Control
Mac = Macintosh

and right now 10.5.2 is not out yet, so everything stated about 10.5.2 until its release is considered a RUMOR

[BigBirds]

How about the networking issue where your wireless connection slows down and halts during a large download? :mad:

couldn't agree more :(
this issue is quite annoying, happens to me too.

it also occurs while watching some video over my LAN (through the wireless connection)

[hhaeschen]

Gah! The wait is killing me, but a) I don't need it and b)I can wait because the longer the wait the better it will be.

It will be just as it should have been in the first place. So don't be disappointed if it can't deliver fried eggs, sunny side up!

[adrian.oconnor]

What's the matter? Your computer not working? It'll be out when its ready!!!

Have you not noticed the thousands of messages from people who can't get a reliable wireless network connection in Leopard? This is a serious problem and it's really damaging to Apple's image - OS X definitely does NOT 'just work' any more. This will be remembered by those it has affected for a long time to come.

Just because you're not having problems doesn't mean that Leopard isn't seriously broken.

[Evangelion]

I know I'd like to see Classic mode come back. :mad:

Dude, get on with the times. Classic is ancient. It's obsolete. Apple did a great thing when they took it behind the barn and put a bullet through it's head. Granted, they did that because Classic was 100% designed for PPC, porting it to Intel would have been a waste of time. But still.

But I'm afraid what we'll see is Apple dropping all support for PPC going forward.

I bet that we will see one major release of OS X happen: 10.6 Lion. And that would be for both PPC and Intel. 10.6 will propably be demoed in WWDC 2009, and released in 2010. After that we will get Mac OS 11, and that will be Intel-only.

[Evangelion]

OS X (10) is going to be hear for at the very least another 8-10 years.

IIRC, when OS X was released, SJ said that it will be their foundation for the next decade or so. And that time is almost up. I bet that after 10.6 we will see OS 11. And that would mean that OS X would be "the OS" of Apple for about 10-12 years (from 2001 to 2010+). What happens in OS 11? I bet it will be Intel-only, it will have a new filesystem (ZFS), it will have a new kernel (Solaris-kernel?) and it will have a new UI. Everything else is up in the air.

[kaiwai]

As in, made a copy of the Tiger install onto an external HDD (just in case) and nuked the drive & fresh-installed Leopard.

Won't see my wireless network unless I enable SSID broadcast. It was hit or miss for a while, but then just plain stopped finding it. And this is from 12 feet away from the router or less, in the same room. Trust me, it's Leopard.

Honestion Question: Why do you have SSID broadcast turned off?

[kaiwai]

OS X (10) is going to be hear for at the very least another 8-10 years.

Software can now listen?

[manu chao]

10.0 - Cheetah
10.1 - Puma
10.2 - Jaguar
10.3 - Panther
10.4 - Tiger
10.5 - Leopard

Been there, done that Cat. Sorry.

There are some nice names still up for grab, I particularly like Oncilla:

* Subfamily Felinae
o Genus Puma
+ Cougar (Puma concolor)
+ Jaguarundi (Puma yagouaroundi)
o Genus Acinonyx
+ Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)
o Genus Lynx
+ Canadian Lynx (Lynx canadensis)
+ Eurasian Lynx (Lynx lynx)
+ Iberian Lynx (Lynx pardinus)
+ Bobcat (Lynx rufus)
o Genus Leopardus
+ Pantanal (Leopardus braccatus)
+ Colocolo (Leopardus colocolo)
+ Ocelot (Leopardus pardalis)
+ Oncilla (Leopardus tigrinus)
+ Margay (Leopardus wiedii)
o Genus Leptailurus
+ Serval (Leptailurus serval)
o Genus Caracal
+ Caracal (Caracal caracal)
* Subfamily Pantherinae
o Genus Panthera
+ Lion (Panthera leo)
+ Jaguar (Panthera onca)
+ Leopard (Panthera pardus)
+ Tiger (Panthera tigris)

[Evangelion]

Honestion Question: Why do you have SSID broadcast turned off?

Why should it be broadcast? If it's a private WLAN meant for private use, why exactly should it be broadcasting the SSID?

[kaiwai]

Why should it be broadcast? If it's a private WLAN meant for private use, why exactly should it be broadcasting the SSID?

Again, you didn't answering the ******** question; why is broadcasting turned off? turn on security to WPA2, and voila, no worries. Stop trying to think you're special because you turn **** off that you know nothing about.

Btw, my university has its SSID turned off, and I don't have a single problem. Ever thought that your router just plain well sucks - if it is a neatgear, its a waste of plastic, chuck it out and get a better one.

[Evangelion]

Again, you didn't answering the ******** question; why is broadcasting turned off?

Because it does not have to be broadcasted? Because broadcasting the SSID draws attention to it? Because I and everyone who wants to use the network already know the SSID? Why should it be broadcasted? So that I could announce to the entire neighbourhood that "Hey everybody, I have a WLAN!"? So that buggy piece of software does not spontaneously combust?

turn on security to WPA2, and voila, no worries. Stop trying to think you're special because you turn **** off that you know nothing about.

Btw, my university has its SSID turned off, and I don't have a single problem. Ever thought that your router just plain well sucks - if it is a neatgear, its a waste of plastic, chuck it out and get a better one.

I'm not the one having issues with SSID, I just commented on the question about broadcasting the SSID. Broadcasting the SSID should not in any shape or form be required. In fact, if it's a closed network, I would very much suggest turning the broadcasting off.

[kaiwai]

Because it does not have to be broadcasted? Because broadcasting the SSID draws attention to it? Because I and everyone who wants to use the network already know the SSID? Why should it be broadcasted? So that I could announce to the entire neighbourhood that "Hey everybody, I have a WLAN!"? So that buggy piece of software does not spontaneously combust?

I'm not the one having issues with SSID, I just commented on the question about broadcasting the SSID. Broadcasting the SSID should not in any shape or form be required. In fact, if it's a closed network, I would very much suggest turning the broadcasting off.

Put it another way, have you enabled SSID, and do you experience the same problems?

[Evangelion]

Put it another way, have you enabled SSID, and do you experience the same problems?

I do not broadcast my SSID. And I'm not sure what problems the other guy is experiencing, but I do occasionally have problems with WLAN. it just stops working, and I have to disable Airport, and then re-enable it and then it starts to work again. But that's not a major issue for me, I have that problem maybe once a week or so.

[Kaptajn Haddock]

I hope the delay is because they are working on the 'first keystroke often not registered' bug on newer MBPs.

See more here:

http://www.petergabriel.dk/mbp.html

[AdeFowler]

...Also the reload and stop button is a joke. It won't let you stop rendering a page until the page is complete, so what is the point.
Pressing the escape key stops a page rendering for me ;)

[madmax_2069]

Pressing the escape key stops a page rendering for me ;)

Yes but the stop/refresh button should do what it was designed to do. if you hit the stop button when a page is loading it should stop when you press it not wait till the page loads. some times when you hit stop when the page is loading it has a delayed reaction and just happens to press when the button becomes the refresh button. it gets quite annoying

[kaiwai]

I do not broadcast my SSID. And I'm not sure what problems the other guy is experiencing, but I do occasionally have problems with WLAN. it just stops working, and I have to disable Airport, and then re-enable it and then it starts to work again. But that's not a major issue for me, I have that problem maybe once a week or so.

That isn't the issue. The issue is, if one is having problems with SSID turned off, has one tried it turned on to see if the same fault/problems re-appear.

I don't know why people here are so damn dense when it comes to problem solving and experimenting to track down issues.

[AidenShaw]

Granted, they did that because Classic was 100% designed for PPC, porting it to Intel would have been a waste of time.

*cough* Rosetta *cough*

[katewes]

Not meaning to be a smarty or anything like that ... but if, for me, the original version 10.5.0, bought at the Leopard launch party, is working fine for me, with no problems, should I upgrade to 10.5.2 ? If it ain't broke, don't fix it could be right for me?

I heard stories of people's Macs being sunk by 10.5.1, so maybe if my Mac is trouble free with 10.5.0, I should just leave it that way??

Besides, the semi-transparent menu bar doesn't bother me.

What do you think?

[iCeFuSiOn]

Not meaning to be a smarty or anything like that ... but if, for me, the original version 10.5.0, bought at the Leopard launch party, is working fine for me, with no problems, should I upgrade to 10.5.2 ? If it ain't broke, don't fix it could be right for me?

I heard stories of people's Macs being sunk by 10.5.1, so maybe if my Mac is trouble free with 10.5.0, I should just leave it that way??

Besides, the semi-transparent menu bar doesn't bother me.

What do you think?
I haven't had any issues with 10.5.1, works great, and 10.5.2 is supposed to add more refinement on top of 10.5.1 with over 130 bug fixes, so I'd recommend installing it personally.

[Evangelion]

I don't know why people here are so damn dense when it comes to problem solving and experimenting to track down issues.

Maybe people are being "dense" because not broadcasting the SSID is perfectly normal thing to do, and that software should "just work" even if the accesspoint is not blasting it's SSID to everyone within 100 meter radius? Maybe we just assume that things work? I mean, disabling SSID-broadcasting is not unusual or unsupported feature. Maybe we have other things to do than muck around with our AP's that are working within established parameters?

Why do I get the feeling that if I or someone else tried enabling the broadcast, and it fixes the issue, you would then proclaim that "so just turn broadcasting on and be done with it"? No, that would not solve the issue.

[Evangelion]

*cough* Rosetta *cough*

What about it? Why should they waste time in supporting an OS that is utterly obsolete?

OS 9 is dead, it's time to move on.

[motulist]

Not meaning to be a smarty or anything like that ... but if, for me, the original version 10.5.0, bought at the Leopard launch party, is working fine for me, with no problems, should I upgrade to 10.5.2 ? If it ain't broke, don't fix it could be right for me?

I heard stories of people's Macs being sunk by 10.5.1, so maybe if my Mac is trouble free with 10.5.0, I should just leave it that way??

Besides, the semi-transparent menu bar doesn't bother me.

What do you think?

Only in rare cases does a point upgrade make things worse. In general you should always upgrade last digit point upgrades.

[fhall1]

Originally Posted by mambodancer
10.0 - Cheetah
10.1 - Puma
10.2 - Jaguar
10.3 - Panther
10.4 - Tiger
10.5 - Leopard


10.6 - Scratchy

[Denarius]

The fact that the build version has only incremented by 1, surely means it must be near there?

[Taylor C]

The fact that the build version has only incremented by 1, surely means it must be near there?

I would have to agree. A couple weeks ago it was pretty clear that Apple had several internal builds prior to what they seeded to developers.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Ahhh, come on, you have to be joking. Safari is one of the worst browsers out there. It crashes regularly. It can't render many sites properly. It also is querky in the way it renders a page. The dimensions keep changing and gui elements move around until the page is fully rendered.

By contrast, firefox on the mac, and IE on windows are both faster. Rendered pages are mapped out first and then gui elements are rendered but they don't constantly resize while rendering. They also handle more websites correctly and play more embedded video / audio.

Apple has fallen behind in the browser area. I for one would like to see a complete re-make of safari with a user friendly Apple flair.

I've been a dedicated Firefox user for a few years now. I've got both a Mac (PowerMac Dual 553 G4 with 512 ram running Tiger on my primary hard drive with Leopard on a 2nd drive but so far too slow with my current graphics card (ancient Rage 128) and/or CPU compared to Tiger for my tastes for me to switch to on a daily basis; I'm ordering a newer graphics card and will retry then) and a PC (AMD64 5600+, 2 gigs ram, 7900GS graphics) that is dual-booting XP SP2 and Linux, networked together.

My conclusions are this after trying Safari 3.0 on Tiger, IE7 on Windows and Firefox on my old Win98 machine (PIII 1GHz), the current PC with both WinXP and Linux and under MacOSX Tiger:

1> Firefox is about the same speed on my Dual 553 G4 Mac as it was on my old 1GHz PIII Win98 machine. Given the CPU power for a single G4 there (Firefox is single threaded), that makes sense.

2> IE7 is WAY better than I ever expected given how much I hated IE5 and IE6. It is also multi-threaded and therefore not prone to the massive slow-down freezes Firefox has on bad behaving javascript pages (e.g. blogs).

3> Safari 3.0 WIPES THE FLOOR with Firefox 2.0.11. It is SO much faster on my Mac than Firefox that it's not even funny. In fact, it's almost as fast as Firefox is on my AMD 5600+ (on either XP or Linux)! I've heard rumors Safari 3.x may be multi-threaded for tabs, at least. I can't confirm that offhand, but I know it's the fastest of all the browsers I've tried and it's blatantly obvious on this Mac G4, which isn't exactly up to date in terms of CPU speed. In short, it makes this Mac a VERY usable Internet machine. M$ Office 2004 and file serving duties along with nice X11 integration with Linux on my other machine (I mostly use XP for playing games). I HAVE seen Safari crash, but overall it's been pretty darn stable here (no worse than Firefox which I've also seen crash numerous times and which seems to have a really bad/slow memory leak(s) in it as it becomes unstable over time until it crashes and/or needs reloaded).

I'm not sure if this machine (short of upgrading the CPU at which point I might as well go get a newer desktop Mac) will ever run Leopard to the point where I feel like running it on a daily basis (Leopard seems like a downgrade to me whereas all prior updates of MacOSX seemed FASTER, but then the graphics card is so crappy on this Mac, it might just need a cheap Radeon7500 or something to make it compete with Tiger as really only the GUI animations stuff is the only thing that really feels 'slow' on it. I simply have had no need for 3D on the mac given its lack of gaming capability regardless). So I hope Apple continues to update Safari 3.x for Tiger for awhile as technically, their own installer doesn't even support this Mac for Leopard (easy enough to get around it using a simple Open Firmware fake out command, though).

I do love Firefox's free extension capability (I wish more other than Adblock were available for Safari), but at least on this older Mac, the speed improvements over Firefox are worth the slight shortcomings. Ironically, if Apple drops support for Safari for Tiger, they would have removed the fastest quality browser there is for older Macs that aren't supported in Leopard anymore (although you might be surprised how fast Firefox will run on it through X11 networking...i.e. having the PC do the CPU lifting and letting the mac act as an X11 terminal. Heck, maybe I'm too geeky with the Linux/X11 stuff to really appreciate a straight use Mac. I'm compiling Firefox-X11 for Apple's X11 right now to test its speed out. I already installed KDE 3.5.8 on the Mac to connect to the Linux box and play with X11 across the network).

[MBX]

****, i just got this news from a friend who works at apple and is OS X coder:

Deeply hurt by Linus Torvalds rant that Leopard has a crappy file-system, the entire OS X division and Apple have decided not to release 10.5.2 but instead continue to issue seeds to ACD members between now and the next 24 months until the file-system is completely re-written.

I'm not sure exactly (and he couldn't tell me) if it was ZFS or a different file-system.

[weaverra]

What about it? Why should they waste time in supporting an OS that is utterly obsolete?

OS 9 is dead, it's time to move on.

Rossetta has nothing to do with OS 9. Your thinking of Classic which has been done away with for the Intel Macs and I believe Leopard totally. Rossetta allows PPC native apps to work on the Intel Macs

[Evangelion]

Rossetta has nothing to do with OS 9. Your thinking of Classic which has been done away with for the Intel Macs and I believe Leopard totally. Rossetta allows PPC native apps to work on the Intel Macs

I never claimed that Rosetta has anything to do with Classic. I even asked "what about it?".

[IT-Pro]

****, i just got this news from a friend who works at apple and is OS X coder:

Deeply hurt by Linus Torvalds rant that Leopard has a crappy file-system, the entire OS X division and Apple have decided not to release 10.5.2 but instead continue to issue seeds to ACD members between now and the next 24 months until the file-system is completely re-written.

I'm not sure exactly (and he couldn't tell me) if it was ZFS or a different file-system.
Are you bored? This absolutely makes no sense.

[motulist]

This absolutely makes no sense.

It wasn't supposed to. Humans have this interesting social custom where they say or do things that are obviously outlandish in an attempt to create good feelings in the recipient. It's called humor. We should stop doing so many anal probes in our ufo laboratories and start doing more studies on this behavior called "joking around."

[thefunkymunky]

Does anyone here have access to builds of 10.5.2? Have Apple reinstated the playing of video in the Dock when QT is minimized?

[hodgjy]

I think you're right. It'll help trim the code a little. Well, I think 10.6 will not be a universal binary and have 4 processor libraries, but it might have some implementation of Rosetta in it so people can run their old PPC apps.


But I'm afraid what we'll see is Apple dropping all support for PPC going forward.

[Compile 'em all]

See? This is exactly the type of post that pisses me off. "Everything works fine on my setup, so anyone who has a problem must be an idiot or a liar." F you dude. Read my other posts in this thread and the zillions of others like mine in other threads


There are also zillions of users that are running Leopard and have zero (or minor) issues, myself included. How does stating the fact that Leopard is running fine for some offend you? :confused:

[robbieduncan]

Does anyone here have access to builds of 10.5.2? Have Apple reinstated the playing of video in the Dock when QT is minimized?

I have access to all seeds, but like everyone else who does we cannot say anything about them due to the strict NDA we signed with Apple. Sorry.

[motulist]

There are also zillions of users that are running Leopard and have zero (or minor) issues, myself included. How does stating the fact that Leopard is running fine for some offend you? :confused:

Because he didn't just say "it's running fine for some people." He said:

I am on a wireless network at home and at work and everything runs fine. I have a hard time believing the posts that complain... Am I just unusually lucky or are the posters with bad experiences very unlucky or worse?
In my business if you can't repeat a suspected software problem on all similar hardware then you have just ruled out the software.

[milo]

Just release it already. Stop toying with us Apple.

When they release a new beta, it means someone found a problem they consider unacceptable to ship, and they try and fix it.

Do you really want them to just go ahead and ship instead of fixing problems they consider show stoppers?

I hope the delay is because they are working on the 'first keystroke often not registered' bug on newer MBPs.

I get that problem sometimes on both my machines, neither of which is a macbook. I hope they fix it, never had it in 10.4 or earlier.

[godrifle]

getElementsByClassName: W00t!

Webkit's performance increase is crazy over the already fast Safari 3.0. Hopefully Safari 3.1 fixes the wonkiness in 3.0.

As for 10.5.2, same goes. 10.5.1 is soooooo flakey at times. Spaces (according to lots of long-time Apple devs I've spoken to) is riddled with bugs (which I've witnessed). Bring on the bug fixes! :apple:

[Kar98]

Maybe people are being "dense" because not broadcasting the SSID is perfectly normal thing to do, and that software should "just work" even if the accesspoint is not blasting it's SSID to everyone within 100 meter radius?

At any rate, wireless is freaking wonky and has been since 10.4.9, even WITH the SSID being broadcast, so that's no the issue anyway. Losing the connection every 5 minutes is.

[iCeFuSiOn]

****, i just got this news from a friend who works at apple and is OS X coder:

Deeply hurt by Linus Torvalds rant that Leopard has a crappy file-system, the entire OS X division and Apple have decided not to release 10.5.2 but instead continue to issue seeds to ACD members between now and the next 24 months until the file-system is completely re-written.

I'm not sure exactly (and he couldn't tell me) if it was ZFS or a different file-system.
Right. And I'm Steve Jobs. :eek:

By the way that builds are ramping up and being seeded (a 1 point increment being seeded to developers is a good sign that development is winding down and the update may be out soon -- perhaps we'll see it next week.)

[c-ker]

It's good that they are taking the time to work on Safari. The Mac OS needs a stable, fully-functional browser that can do everything that IE does on the Windows side. I don't like having to use Firefox on some sites and Safari on others. :mad:

Please, :apple:, make Safari the only browser I need. :cool:

[kaiwai]

Maybe people are being "dense" because not broadcasting the SSID is perfectly normal thing to do, and that software should "just work" even if the accesspoint is not blasting it's SSID to everyone within 100 meter radius? Maybe we just assume that things work? I mean, disabling SSID-broadcasting is not unusual or unsupported feature. Maybe we have other things to do than muck around with our AP's that are working within established parameters?

Why do I get the feeling that if I or someone else tried enabling the broadcast, and it fixes the issue, you would then proclaim that "so just turn broadcasting on and be done with it"? No, that would not solve the issue.

Who said anything about that. I said EXPERIMENT to find out the CAUSE of the problem. If it still continues AFTER you enable SSID, then try it in other situations, other routers, and work out whether its a router issue or a wireless issue inside the laptop.

What is so damn difficult about that?!

[TheSpaz]

Here we go again. I hope it's today.

[adrian.oconnor]

How does stating the fact that Leopard is running fine for some offend you?:

You would understand if your wireless network connection was dropping every 20 minutes and then some fool said "works fine for me, Leopard can't be at fault."

It also somehow makes it worse that most of these people always claim to have a network of five Macs (always five) all running Leopard, as if that adds weight to their argument.

If you want to see how many problems Leopard has with networking, go take a peek at the Apple support forums.

[Hard Nard]

10.11 - Chester Cheetah
10.12 - Snagglepuss

10.13 - ***** Galore (sorry, somebody had to so it may as well be me.....)

[zorinlynx]

Why is it that some people can't comprehend that just because they aren't having a problem that it means that others who are having problems must be doing something "weird."

There are tons of people who are having major airport / wifi problems after upgrading to leopard.

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=9211516

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=9211532

I still say there is something "weird" going on. My MBP has been on DOZENS of wireless networks since I upgraded to Leopard, and I have never had any problems connecting or staying connected. Same goes for wired networks.

Unless it's some commonly used piece of third-party software, I don't see why so many people are having problems. If anything, Leopard's networking has been MORE solid than tiger's; Tiger used to have a delay of about 10 seconds before getting on wireless networks most of the time, whereas with Leopard it's instant. In fact it's SO fast that I wake the machine from sleep after moving to a new network, and in the time it takes me to type my password, Adium has already logged in and displayed all my contacts.

The only glitch I see is that at work, I'm always one bar short of "max" on signal strength no matter how close I am to an access point. But this doesn't affect connectivity; wireless network still works great.

[inajeep]

Fixing that network connectivity issue would make me and my wife very happy!

I haven't tried every combination of wireless settings but when it works fine for a day and the next wonks out a couple of times a day it's really hard to pinpoint where the problems reside. Plus there are other wireless devices I need to support so making radical wireless setting changes to security or others isn't practical.

Edit: This is with a brand new MacBook Pro (our first Mac)

[WalrusCP]

It's good that they are taking the time to work on Safari. The Mac OS needs a stable, fully-functional browser that can do everything that IE does on the Windows side. I don't like having to use Firefox on some sites and Safari on others. :mad:

Please, :apple:, make Safari the only browser I need. :cool:

I'll second this motion. Safari continues to improve, but more work is needed.

Oh, and :apple:, can you please do something as simple as give us a new tab menu button without us having to use a third party app? Pretty please???

[godrifle]

Uh, in your response to a message about Rosetta, you rhetorically asked why Apple should support an OS that is utterly obsolete. The very next sentence you claimed "OS 9 is dead, it's time to move on". If you didn't confuse Rosetta with Classic, then what in Spock's Beard (http://www.spocksbeard.com/) were you talking about? :confused:;):D

I never claimed that Rosetta has anything to do with Classic. I even asked "what about it?".

Rossetta has nothing to do with OS 9. Your thinking of Classic which has been done away with for the Intel Macs and I believe Leopard totally. Rossetta allows PPC native apps to work on the Intel Macs


What about it? Why should they waste time in supporting an OS that is utterly obsolete?

OS 9 is dead, it's time to move on.

[Sky Blue]

can you please do something as simple as give us a new tab menu button without us having to use a third party app? Pretty please???

cmd + T ?

[WalrusCP]

cmd + T ?

I know you can use the keyboard shortcut, but Firefox and just about every other web browser gives you the option to have a menu button to do the same thing. Sometimes I just don't want to pull the keyboard out from its ledge on my desk. Sometimes I just want to be lazy and click a button. It's the American way. :p:D

[iCeFuSiOn]

cmd + T ?
And if you're really looking for the menu bar item, File > New Tab.

[messedkid]

I have been having a connection problem for quite some time now. At first I thought it was our provider/router/modems fault (Arcor), but we switched providers about 3 weeks ago (Ish) and the problem persists.

Only other thing 2 things I can think of, is either being fixed in 10.5.2, or has to do with our d-lan setup.


Our main computer/modem and router are all upstairs (i live in the basement :( ). We also have heated floors and the pipes under the floor cause interferece with w-lan, and I do not have a port in my room. When I'm connected via d-lan, I get frequent disconnects, sometimes 2-3 minutes apart, sometimes 2-3 hours. Quite annoying when playing WoW and everyone but you stops moving. :rolleyes:

Anyway, when I'm sitting upstairs and using w-lan I have no problems whatsoever, even though my brother is also connected with his PC in his room (also in the basement).

O yes, If I'm downstairs and get disconnected...my brothers PC and the main computer upstairs both get disconnected as well, and we have to unplug the router for a few seconds to get it back up.

:S

[WalrusCP]

And if you're really looking for the menu bar item, File > New Tab.

Let me rephrase - I want an option to add a button in the Safari's main toolbar under view settings like you can for adding a bookmark, printing, etc.

[messedkid]

And if you're really looking for the menu bar item, File > New Tab.

Or, another option, Cmd + *click link*

[Sky Blue]

I know you can use the keyboard shortcut, but Firefox and just about every other web browser gives you the option to have a menu button to do the same thing. Sometimes I just don't want to pull the keyboard out from its ledge on my desk. Sometimes I just want to be lazy and click a button. It's the American way. :p:D

I guess so..personally I think hitting cmd+T is easier than moving my hand to the mouse, moving the mouse to a button and clicking it.

[WalrusCP]

Or, another option, Cmd + *click link*

That's what I usually do. But I like having options, what else can I say? :D

[milo]

Jesus's ******** Christ; who said anything about that. I said EXPERIMENT to find out the CAUSE of the problem. If it still continues AFTER you enable SSID, then try it in other situations, other routers, and work out whether its a router issue or a wireless issue inside the laptop.

Again, what is it with thicko's around here who can't even do the most basic of diagnostic; it isn't about blaming you, it is about finding the damn cause of the problem, finding a bloody work around, then waiting for a bloody fix.

What is so damn difficult about that?!

Simple question: what is your problem? Are you really unable to talk about this without getting so angry?

[cogsinister]

I have been having a connection problem for quite some time now. At first I thought it was our provider/router/modems fault (Arcor), but we switched providers about 3 weeks ago (Ish) and the problem persists.

Only other thing 2 things I can think of, is either being fixed in 10.5.2, or has to do with our d-lan setup.


Our main computer/modem and router are all upstairs (i live in the basement :( ). We also have heated floors and the pipes under the floor cause Interference with w-lan, and I do not have a port in my room. When I'm connected via d-lan, I get frequent disconnects, sometimes 2-3 minutes apart, sometimes 2-3 hours. Quite annoying when playing WoW and everyone but you stops moving. :rolleyes:

Anyway, when I'm sitting upstairs and using w-lan I have no problems whatsoever, even though my brother is also connected with his PC in his room (also in the basement).

O yes, If I'm downstairs and get disconnected...my brothers PC and the main computer upstairs both get disconnected as well, and we have to unplug the router for a few seconds to get it back up.

:S

Could be Interference from another wifi network, a microwave oven or a 2.4ghz cordless phone......try changing the channel that your wifi router uses to one thats not used in your area.....i did this and it sloved my signal drop out problems....

[kingtj]

The primary reason Microsoft OS's tend to suck is their haste in pushing things out the door without complete and proper testing. Quite often, I even see that one of their updates has an update (or even 3 or 4) to finally get it right.

It seems to me like Apple is doing things the *right* way this time, making sure the issues they claim are fixed, really ARE fixed. All the people demanding 10.5.2 be released NOW would probably have been disappointed when their wireless networking was still dropping out randomly and so forth. (It sounds like this was quite possibly still being worked on until today's build!)

For people in server and some business environments, applying these updates is very disruptive. You have to log everybody out of whatever they're doing on your machine and go through the downtime while the update installs. Then, you have to be ready for any new issues the upgrade might potentially bring. It's to nobody's benefit to release these things "early and often".


Surely a longer wait is better?

I bet all those saying Apple should release it now would be back whining and whining if they found a bug in it. Just be glad that Apple are actually trying to fix as many bugs as they can instead of just releasing it as fast as possible.

[displaced]

That's what I usually do. But I like having options, what else can I say? :D

Or, enable the option in Safari's preferences to 'always show the tab bar' even when there's only one tab. Now, you can right-click/ctrl+click/two-finger-tap the empty tab bar area and choose New Tab.

That's what I usually do.

I wouldn't use a 'new tab' toolbar button. However, I'd like Firefox-like behaviour where double-clicking in the empty tab bar area opens a new tab. But right-clicking's OK really.

[kingtj]

My girlfriend is a prime example. She purchased a white Macbook last year as a college student. It shipped with Tiger on it. When Leopard came out, I convinced her she should upgrade to it. She finally agreed she'd use "a few" of the new features (but obviously, she's not exactly a "power user" ... mainly just needs Microsoft Office and Internet connectivity).

I did an "archive and install" installation of Leopard on the machine for her, and the only 3rd. party extras she has installed on it include the latest version of StuffIt Deluxe, Adobe Acrobat Reader (why? I dunno... I think Preview is just fine!), and Yahoo Messenger for OS X beta 2.

As soon as I gave her the notebook back with Leopard on it, she started complaining that her wireless connection at her apartment was "cutting out all the time". Using the notebook at my house, I encountered the same behavior. It would work just great, showing a strong signal, but after maybe 15 minutes of use, it would suddenly act like there was no wireless router present at all anymore. Turning wi-fi off and back on would re-detect my router (again showing a strong signal) and it would pick back up where it left off.

Personally, I own the first edition of the Macbook Pro (2.0Ghz Core Duo model), and my upgrade to Leopard went just fine on it. No noticeable difference in my wi-fi performance at all.


I still say there is something "weird" going on. My MBP has been on DOZENS of wireless networks since I upgraded to Leopard, and I have never had any problems connecting or staying connected. Same goes for wired networks.

Unless it's some commonly used piece of third-party software, I don't see why so many people are having problems. If anything, Leopard's networking has been MORE solid than tiger's; Tiger used to have a delay of about 10 seconds before getting on wireless networks most of the time, whereas with Leopard it's instant. In fact it's SO fast that I wake the machine from sleep after moving to a new network, and in the time it takes me to type my password, Adium has already logged in and displayed all my contacts.

The only glitch I see is that at work, I'm always one bar short of "max" on signal strength no matter how close I am to an access point. But this doesn't affect connectivity; wireless network still works great.

[cogsinister]

Its only just gone 7.30am in Cupertino... still time today.......

[Sky Blue]

Its only just gone 7.30am in Cupertino... still time today.......

If it does come today , it's not likely to be another four hours at least

[stevegmu]

I'll second this motion. Safari continues to improve, but more work is needed.

Oh, and :apple:, can you please do something as simple as give us a new tab menu button without us having to use a third party app? Pretty please???

If you right click on an open space on the tab bar, you get the option to open a new tab, so a button really isn't necessary.

[Daveoc64]

Who said anything about that. I said EXPERIMENT to find out the CAUSE of the problem. If it still continues AFTER you enable SSID, then try it in other situations, other routers, and work out whether its a router issue or a wireless issue inside the laptop.

What is so damn difficult about that?!


Ok then explain this:

Why do people find their Computer suddenly stops working with a specific network as soon as Leopard is installed?

Why do people find that the same computer works fine with that network in Windows (boot camp)?

Why is it that every other device runs perfectly with that same network?

It's clearly an issue with Leopard and there's no need to get rude.

[Digitalclips]

Uh, in your response to a message about Rosetta, you rhetorically asked why Apple should support an OS that is utterly obsolete. The very next sentence you claimed "OS 9 is dead, it's time to move on". If you didn't confuse Rosetta with Classic, then what in Spock's Beard (http://www.spocksbeard.com/) were you talking about? :confused:;):D

Not responding to your comments but simply about OS 9 and earlier. It would be nice if VMWare could support early Mac OSs to run. I have tons of old stuff I enjoyed messing with. Heck how about Lisa too? I do have some emulation ability for Lisa, Apple /// and Apple 2 but they require OS 9 so catch 22 these days.

I realize Apple would have to give permission to VMWare to legally run any Apple OS but I am only talking about pre OS X so why not? I realize there is zero commercial value in it, but it would be nice to try out OS 9 on my new 8 Core MacPro.

[Daveoc64]

If you right click on an open space on the tab bar, you get the option to open a new tab, so a button really isn't necessary.

In that case, why bother with any of the buttons?

The function of them is accessible in other places.

Why have the dock? There are other ways to open things.

I want a new tab button, hell even Internet Explorer has one.

[xUKHCx]

If you right click on an open space on the tab bar, you get the option to open a new tab, so a button really isn't necessary.

What if you don't have free space

[stevegmu]

What if you don't have free space

I never have that many open, but you can always Open Link in New Window.

Actually, I just had a bunch open, and you can click on any tab to get the option to open a new tab, not just on an open space.

[stevegmu]

In that case, why bother with any of the buttons?

The function of them is accessible in other places.

Why have the dock? There are other ways to open things.

I want a new tab button, hell even Internet Explorer has one.

How is it any more difficult to click on an open space- if there is one, than press a tab button?

[xUKHCx]

I never have that many open, but you can always Open Link in New Window.

Yeah I know but there is nothing wrong with wanting an actual button even thought there are lots of alternatives, after all I cmd+click a link/cmd+t while others may ctrl+click tab bar, or file - new tab, so why leave out the people who want a button.

How is it any more difficult to click on an open space- if there is one, than press a tab button?

Because the space might not be there and the button always will be.

[AidenShaw]

I never claimed that Rosetta has anything to do with Classic. I even asked "what about it?".

The "what" is that there's a proven technology (QuickTransit by Transitive (http://www.transitive.com/products/product_overview.htm)) which eliminates the need for porting to the x86 architecture.

Apple could have done the work (probably significant) to get Classic or an OS9 "Wine-like" environment running under QuickTransit (aka "Rosetta").

So, the move to Intel was a convenient excuse for Apple to use to kill Classic, but it would have been possible to keep it around.


It would be nice if VMWare could support early Mac OSs to run.

VMware does not do instruction set (ISA) emulation, the virtual machines run with the native instruction set.

QEMU (http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/status.html) does ISA emulation, and already can run on Mac OSX Intel. That would be another option.

[hhaeschen]

I have been having a connection problem for quite some time now. At first I thought it was our provider/router/modems fault (Arcor), but we switched providers about 3 weeks ago (Ish) and the problem persists.

Only other thing 2 things I can think of, is either being fixed in 10.5.2, or has to do with our d-lan setup.


Our main computer/modem and router are all upstairs (i live in the basement :( ). We also have heated floors and the pipes under the floor cause interferece with w-lan, and I do not have a port in my room. When I'm connected via d-lan, I get frequent disconnects, sometimes 2-3 minutes apart, sometimes 2-3 hours. Quite annoying when playing WoW and everyone but you stops moving. :rolleyes:

Anyway, when I'm sitting upstairs and using w-lan I have no problems whatsoever, even though my brother is also connected with his PC in his room (also in the basement).

O yes, If I'm downstairs and get disconnected...my brothers PC and the main computer upstairs both get disconnected as well, and we have to unplug the router for a few seconds to get it back up.

:S

You said that you switched the provider. But have you switched the router as well? When I was living in the US I had a Netgear router and expierenced the exact same problems as you are. Now back in Europe I am using a Linksys router and I haven't had a problem once.
I'v read on several forums that people keep having trouble with certain routers (regardless of Mac/PC/whatever). You might check on that.

[Daveoc64]

How is it any more difficult to click on an open space- if there is one, than press a tab button?

On my MacBook that means two fingers which is a pain when I want to do something so frequent.

I usually use Command + T which works, but again - two fingers.

In fact, trying it on this page it wont work!

No matter where I click, it wont give me that choice when I right click.

[stevegmu]

Yeah I know but there is nothing wrong with wanting an actual button even thought there are lots of alternatives, after all I cmd+click a link/cmd+t while others may ctrl+click tab bar, or file - new tab, so why leave out the people who want a button.



Because the space might not be there and the button always will be.

Just put this in terminal, and you won't have to cmd+ click anything to open a tab. It gives you a tab bar.


defaults write com.apple.Safari AlwaysShowTabBar -bool NO


I just opened up a lot of tabs, and you don't have to have an open space to open a new tab, just right click on any tab, and you get the option to open a new tab.

On my MacBook that means two fingers which is a pain when I want to do something so frequent.

I usually use Command + T which works, but again - two fingers.

In fact, trying it on this page it wont work!

No matter where I click, it wont give me that choice when I right click.

Do you have the tab bar turned on? See post #231.

[xUKHCx]

Just put this in terminal, and you won't have to cmd+ click anything to open a tab. It gives you a tab bar.

defaults write com.apple.Safari AlwaysShowTabBar -bool NO

Terminal is a bit overkill, can just use cmd+shift+t, or view - show tab bar

I just opened up a lot of tabs, and you don't have to have an open space to open a new tab, just right click on any tab, and you get the option to open a new tab.

Well pressing one button rather than pressing ctrl+click.

Why are you so ardently against having a button, which like all buttons in Safari you could remove. If it benefits some people then it is for the better.

[Daveoc64]

Do you have the tab bar turned on? See post #231.

No.

I don't like it being open when it's empty.

[stevegmu]

Terminal is a bit overkill, can just use cmd+shift+t, or view - show tab bar



Well pressing one button rather than pressing ctrl+click.

Why are you so ardently against having a button, which like all buttons in Safari you could remove. If it benefits some people then it is for the better.

I'm not against a tab button. One probably would be easier for those not using a mouse.

No.

I don't like it being open when it's empty.

You can just hide it when it is empty.

[Daveoc64]

I'm not against a tab button. One probably would be easier for those not using a mouse.



You can just hide it when it is empty.

It's simply not a button, I don't want a fast way of getting tabs, I know the keyboard shortcut, I know I can use the File menu - I just want (the option of) a button.

[0racle]

IIRC, when OS X was released, SJ said that it will be their foundation for the next decade or so. And that time is almost up. I bet that after 10.6 we will see OS 11. And that would mean that OS X would be "the OS" of Apple for about 10-12 years (from 2001 to 2010+). What happens in OS 11? I bet it will be Intel-only, it will have a new filesystem (ZFS), it will have a new kernel (Solaris-kernel?) and it will have a new UI. Everything else is up in the air.

So you think that after the purchase of NeXT, making it an Apple product, they're going to throw all that away and become a Sun Solaris VAR?

Maybe we can also convince Jobs to bring NeWS back?

[metaljunkie]

I have been building Webkit from SVN for a few months now, and the striking differences recently is the rendering speed and lower memory usage.

Also, as there is no seed for Leopard posted on ADC, and the Tiger and Windows ones state "No known issues" it is possible that the final build of 10.5.2 will include Safari 3.1.

However, I would rather they took their time with it and got it right before releasing, which is what they appear to be doing.
Regarding bugs that I would like to see fixed; Firstly, I think they introduced problems with memory management into Leopard, it doesn't seem to cache as much as it should, and the free memory is too high a lot of the time. Tigers memory management was much more efficient, utilising the majority of the installed memory all the time.
Secondly, Safari 3.0's massive memory usage. Say no more.

Apart from that, it works fine for me.

[WalrusCP]

Wow, I didn't realize my innocent comment would issue a whole discussion on tabbing in Safari.

Or maybe I did...

Either way, my work is done here. :cool:

[stevegmu]

Wow, I didn't realize my innocent comment would issue a whole discussion on tabbing in Safari.

Or maybe I did...

Either way, my work is done here. :cool:

Actually, I didn't even know tabbing was possible in Safafi, until I came across it a while ago while looking at a site with terminal commands.

[xUKHCx]

Actually, I didn't even know tabbing was possible in Safafi, until I came across it a while ago while looking at a site with terminal commands.

So perhaps a button would have made it obvious, especially to any switchers from other browsers.

[Evangelion]

The "what" is that there's a proven technology (QuickTransit by Transitive (http://www.transitive.com/products/product_overview.htm)) which eliminates the need for porting to the x86 architecture.

But it would still mean that Apple would have to support OS 9 in some shape or form. I bet they counted the hours until they could ditch that crap. And Intel-transition was a good opportunity to do just that.

OS 9 is dead. Just let it go.

[Evangelion]

Uh, in your response to a message about Rosetta, you rhetorically asked why Apple should support an OS that is utterly obsolete. The very next sentence you claimed "OS 9 is dead, it's time to move on". If you didn't confuse Rosetta with Classic, then what in Spock's Beard (http://www.spocksbeard.com/) were you talking about? :confused:;):D

Am I speaking latin or something? Here's a recap:

Someone commented on Apple not supporting Classic anymore on x86. I said that it makes no sense since OS9 is designed to PowerPC, and running it on x86 is an extra hassle for Apple. I then get a vague comment about Rosetta, to which I reply "What about it", and I then proceed to further comment that OS9 is dead and buried, and pining for it is useless, since it's utterly and hopelessly obsolete.

Where exactly am I mixing Rosetta with Classic? I never talked about Rosetta until someone else mentioned it

[Evangelion]

Who said anything about that. I said EXPERIMENT to find out the CAUSE of the problem. If it still continues AFTER you enable SSID, then try it in other situations, other routers, and work out whether its a router issue or a wireless issue inside the laptop.

I'm sorry, but I have better things to do with my time and money. The router works just fine with other machines and OS'es, has worked for years. I got these issues with Leopard. And now I should run around changing settings and hardware for what? To make sure that the problem is not with the router, even though that exact same router works with other systems just fine, except my Leopard-running MBP? And like I said: I don't find this problem to be that serious.

What is so damn difficult about that?!

Why is it so damn difficult for you to understand that

a) I have other things to do with my time
b) I have other things to do with my money (AP's cost money you know)
c) It works with other systems just fine
d) It worked in Tiger just fine
e) The problem doesn't bother me that much

Seriously: go take a valium or something.

[happydude]

It's simply not a button, I don't want a fast way of getting tabs, I know the keyboard shortcut, I know I can use the File menu - I just want (the option of) a button.

agreed, why not have the option? you can use it if you want, ignore it if you don't want it. not a bit deal. i, for one, would use it.

[hob]

I was just on the phone to an Apple engineer for about an hour, and he happened to mention when I told him I was on OS X 10.5.1 that "we have a software update coming out end of this week, or end of next week".

So I call dibs on tonight, tomorrow, and next thursday and friday too! You heard it here first, folks!! :p

[Sky Blue]

I was just on the phone with Steve Jobs for about 5 hours, and he happened to mention that "we have a software update coming out before the end of February".

So I call second dibs on tonight, tomorrow, and next thursday and friday too!
and I call dibs on the week after that.

[IT-Pro]

I was just on the phone with Steve Jobs for about 5 hours, and he happened to mention that "we have a software update coming out before the end of February".
He's problably right, like he always is. Steve Jobs for the win! :D
So I call second dibs on tonight, tomorrow, and next thursday and friday too!
and I call dibs on the week after that.
Why not just mention every day except Sunday? At least you're right one time.

[Daveoc64]

I was just on the phone to an Apple engineer for about an hour, and he happened to mention when I told him I was on OS X 10.5.1 that "we have a software update coming out end of this week, or end of next week".

So I call dibs on tonight, tomorrow, and next thursday and friday too! You heard it here first, folks!! :p

I guess it's entirely possible that they are jumping on the rumor bandwagon.

[xUKHCx]

He's problably right, like he always is. Steve Jobs for the win! :D

Why not just mention every day except Sunday? At least you're right one time.

Why not mention Sunday, that way there is a chance you will be wrong. There is a post floating around somewhere that details the previous days that updates were released and Sunday was one of them.

[milo]

Why not mention Sunday, that way there is a chance you will be wrong. There is a post floating around somewhere that details the previous days that updates were released and Sunday was one of them.

I don't think that's right. In the lists I've seen it has been every weekday, none on weekends. Which on Sunday?

[weaverra]

I never claimed that Rosetta has anything to do with Classic. I even asked "what about it?".


It's just how it was worded. I see what your saying now.

[xUKHCx]

I don't think that's right. In the lists I've seen it has been every weekday, none on weekends. Which on Sunday?

Found the post

Chance? Sure, there's always a chance. That and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee. :rolleyes:

Someone was asking about which days of the week updates usually are released. Here is a summary:

10.0.1 - 10.0.4: Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
10.1.1 - 10.1.5: Tuesday (twice), Wednesday, Thursday (twice)
10.2.1 - 10.2.8: Monday (twice), Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday (3 times), Friday
10.3.1 - 10.3.9: Sunday, Monday (twice), Wednesday (4 times), Friday (twice)
10.4.1 - 10.4.11: Monday (3 times), Tuesday (5 times), Wednesday (twice), Friday,
10.5.1: Thursday

I'm afraid I don't see much of a pattern.


Having looked through apples pages for 10.3.1-10.3.9 I can't find the one that was released on a Sunday, so perhaps this information is wrong. However that said there is a chance they could release it on a Sunday so why not include it in the list.