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View Full Version : Why does the 64GB SSD cost $1000?




JTag
Feb 6, 2008, 06:42 PM
Sorry to be the dumb one here but...

Here is what I figure:
32GB iPod Touch = $500... so 2 x 32GB iPod Touch (64GB of flash memory total) = $1000

So why does Apple not put two 32GB of flash memory (from the Touch) into the MBA? It would certainly cost less than $1000 because they do not need to include the iPod Touch hardware. I know that the iPod Touch and MBA do not use the same type of flash memory, but why doesn't Apple put the flash memory used in the Touch in the MBA?



MazingerZ
Feb 6, 2008, 06:44 PM
Sorry to be the dumb one here but...

Here is what I figure:
32GB iPod Touch = $500... so 2 x 32GB iPod Touch (64GB of flash memory total) = $1000

So why does Apple not put two 32GB of flash memory (from the Touch) into the MBA? It would certainly cost less than $1000 because they do not need to include the iPod Touch hardware. I know that the iPod Touch and MBA do not use the same type of flash memory, but why doesn't Apple put the flash memory used in the Touch in the MBA?

Performance.

Thunderpuppy
Feb 6, 2008, 07:07 PM
Value man!! Value!

Mac's rule!!!!

robrose20
Feb 6, 2008, 07:19 PM
Sorry to be the dumb one here but...

Here is what I figure:
32GB iPod Touch = $500... so 2 x 32GB iPod Touch (64GB of flash memory total) = $1000

So why does Apple not put two 32GB of flash memory (from the Touch) into the MBA? It would certainly cost less than $1000 because they do not need to include the iPod Touch hardware. I know that the iPod Touch and MBA do not use the same type of flash memory, but why doesn't Apple put the flash memory used in the Touch in the MBA?

Its actually a good deal. Newegg sells 64 gb SSD for about $1500.00, the 128 GB goes for about $3000.00.

filman408
Feb 6, 2008, 07:45 PM
Apple is selling the SSD at cost (wholesale).

hayduke
Feb 6, 2008, 07:57 PM
Some enterprising young lad should buy a few MBAs with SSDs. Then, replace the SSDs with hard drives. Then sell the reconfigured MBAs at the current retail price and sell the SSDs at retail and pocket a few hundred dollars. Wash, rinse, and repeat, until you have a "free" MBA. What do the 80GB HDs retail for? You might get there after 10-12 machines.

ob81
Feb 6, 2008, 08:20 PM
After the benchmarks from Ars, I have no idea why. At best it matched the battery life of the HDD. Which is a lame 2.75 hrs roughly. It also is no fatser in real world tasks that a 4200rpm iPod drive. Ironically people stress the fact that it doesn't crash. I have owned like 7 or 8 laptops in my 27 years, and not 1 of my HD 's crashed.
Hey, if you slam your Macbook Air down to the ground though, technically it should still work (The SSD).

Not convinced.

Eric Lewis
Feb 6, 2008, 08:23 PM
why can i get a 8gb flash drive for like 30bucks?

so 8gb x 8 = 6gb

8 X 30 = 240?

so it should be 240..they ripped us off

ahaxton
Feb 6, 2008, 08:34 PM
Flash drive and SSD are two different things. If they were the same thing we'd be using flash drives by default for years in our computers.

JustinEvil
Feb 6, 2008, 08:35 PM
At my local apple store I set up the 17 inch macbook pro next to the SSD macbook air. The air was opening applications much much faster than the pro. SSD makes a difference.

Eric Lewis
Feb 6, 2008, 08:35 PM
Flash drive and SSD are two different things. If they were the same thing we'd be using flash drives by default for years in our computers.

whats the difference? both are flash

n8kwx
Feb 6, 2008, 08:57 PM
Sorry to be the dumb one here but...

Here is what I figure:
32GB iPod Touch = $500... so 2 x 32GB iPod Touch (64GB of flash memory total) = $1000

So why does Apple not put two 32GB of flash memory (from the Touch) into the MBA? It would certainly cost less than $1000 because they do not need to include the iPod Touch hardware. I know that the iPod Touch and MBA do not use the same type of flash memory, but why doesn't Apple put the flash memory used in the Touch in the MBA?

I see two factors in the price:

Whenever you shop memory there come a point where double the memory costs more than double the price. A 32 GB SSD could be less than $500 but would be next to useless in a laptop.

Also quantity pricing. Apple buys the bare chips in bulk and sells millions of iPods. In the SSD drive case, Apple is paying (Samsung?) for an already assembled drive (Samsung makes a profit too) and they quantities are probably a LOT lower.

SSDs are in their infancy right now. Within a year there will be BIG drops in price as the quantities sold rise.

PlaceofDis
Feb 6, 2008, 09:01 PM
there is a difference between the flash drives of the ipods/thumb drives and the SSD that the macbook air uses.

the SSD drive will have faster read/write times, along with more reliability and a different interface than that of the flash you see all over the place.

basically the SSD is the newest tech with the best performance in its class so it costs big bucks.

flash is in everything and being bought big time, thus being so cheap.

ahaxton
Feb 6, 2008, 09:02 PM
there is a difference between the flash drives of the ipods/thumb drives and the SSD that the macbook air uses.

the SSD drive will have faster read/write times, along with more reliability and a different interface than that of the flash you see all over the place.

basically the SSD is the newest tech with the best performance in its class so it costs big bucks.

flash is in everything and being bought big time, thus being so cheap.

Yup, SSD is built to replace a HDD. Way different manufacturing than flash memory in an ipod.

MazingerZ
Feb 6, 2008, 10:02 PM
Here's a timely article from Walt Mossberg regarding SSD vs HDD.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120234646351049317.html?mod=hps_us_inside_today

iTeen
Feb 10, 2008, 02:56 PM
why can i get a 8gb flash drive for like 30bucks?
Can you show me where you can buy a 8gb flash drive for 30bucks...thanks

Eric Lewis
Feb 10, 2008, 02:59 PM
Can you show me where you can buy a 8gb flash drive for 30bucks...thanks

best buy employee discount...thats it

Mikebuzzsaw
Feb 10, 2008, 03:00 PM
The ignorance in this thread is suffocating.

squeeks
Feb 10, 2008, 03:25 PM
Can you show me where you can buy a 8gb flash drive for 30bucks...thanks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211181
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208094
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220263
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208362
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313031

you were saying?

Eidorian
Feb 10, 2008, 03:34 PM
Write speed and density.

bluedoggiant
Feb 10, 2008, 03:57 PM
I don't see a difference, one 64gb ssd, or 2x32gb ssd from the touch both equal $1000.

barefeats
Feb 12, 2008, 02:36 PM
I just posted extensive test results of random and sequential read/write tests using block sizes from 4KB to 100MB:
http://www.barefeats.com/macair1.html

BOTTOMLINE: The SSD does small random read/write faster than any existing notebook drive. That's why it boots fast, launches fasts, wakes fast, and does virtual memory efficiently.

clayj
Feb 12, 2008, 02:41 PM
I don't see a difference, one 64gb ssd, or 2x32gb ssd from the touch both equal $1000.The RAM in an iPod Touch or an iPhone is NOT an SSD. It's not the same in terms of read/write speed or number of writes before the memory fails. Saying that they are the same thing is like saying that kerosene and aviation fuel are the same thing... sure, they both burn and you can drive an engine with them, but they don't burn the same and they don't deliver equal amounts of power per gallon. An SSD is qualitatively superior to the Flash memory in a thumbdrive or iPod Touch in virtually every way, and therefore it costs more per gigabyte.

MacBooksRock
Feb 12, 2008, 03:16 PM
you can get a 8 gig for like $30... at walmart..

clayj
Feb 12, 2008, 03:36 PM
you can get a 8 gig for like $30... at walmart..Perhaps, but (again) this is a pointless comparison.

Flash memory such as that found in thumbdrives, iPod Touches, and iPhones is NOT THE SAME as the memory in an SSD. You're comparing a WW I Sopwith Camel to an F-22 Raptor; they're both airplanes, but one is superior to the other and costs more as a result.

hotsauce
Feb 12, 2008, 10:46 PM
Perhaps, but (again) this is a pointless comparison.

Flash memory such as that found in thumbdrives, iPod Touches, and iPhones is NOT THE SAME as the memory in an SSD. You're comparing a WW I Sopwith Camel to an F-22 Raptor; they're both airplanes, but one is superior to the other and costs more as a result.

Hey, enough with the analogies. We get it, they are different. Care to explain why?

Sun Baked
Feb 12, 2008, 10:59 PM
This is like saying why does the biggest 4GB FB-DIMMs cost so much, when I can buy 1GB of notebook memory for $30 -- plus they make me buy the FB-DIMMs in pairs, what a rip. :p

I haven't looked at the SSD drives, but the SW on the drive, the interface, and the memory density all likely factor in to the cost.

At least they are comparing to other products and not saying, Dell sells the same thing for $30...

heatmiser
Feb 12, 2008, 11:11 PM
Hey, enough with the analogies. We get it, they are different. Care to explain why?

This received a LOL IRL from me. Kudos, sir!

clayj
Feb 12, 2008, 11:14 PM
Care to explain why?No, but this guy will:

http://storagemojo.com/2006/10/19/ram-based-ssds-are-toast-yippie-ki-yay/

baypharm
Feb 13, 2008, 01:13 PM
All new drives are expensive when they are first introduced. I recall back in the late 80's, a 20mb HD cost over 1500 dollars. Not even a gig.

What I wished Apple would have done is use SDHC card rather than SSD's. They are proven technology and 16gb cards class 6 are going for 70 bucks now. 32gb cards are just now coming onto the marketplace.

Krevnik
Feb 13, 2008, 03:24 PM
What I wished Apple would have done is use SDHC card rather than SSD's. They are proven technology and 16gb cards class 6 are going for 70 bucks now. 32gb cards are just now coming onto the marketplace.

A class 6 SDHC card is still slow. A class 6 only provides about half the speed as the SSD in the Air provides, less than half on paper compared to the SSD's actual read speeds. That same class 6 can't even keep up with the slowest 4200 RPM HDDs on the market on read speed!

The big reason why SSDs are really expensive right now is that they just can't take the same chips used in your SDHC card or thumb drive, and slap them onto an ATA controller. They have to use chips of high enough density that they will fit the enclosure, but also as many chips as possible to keep read/write speed up. Then you have RAM onboard for caching (more than what a traditional HDD uses), the controller chip which is brand new to the market, and so on.

Yes, you can buy 8GB flash chips with a USB microcontroller cheaply enough that you get 64GB for about a third of the price of current SSDs. One of the reasons those chips are so cheap is that /everyone/ uses them. Volumes are high. If people weren't buying them in bulk, they would easily be nearly double the price. But those same chips aren't the ones used in a 64GB SSD drive.

More expensive chips are used, and for a 64GB SSD, you have extra chips in there used for the sole purpose of providing short-term write cache and backup blocks for when flash cells eventually go bad. And of course a controller chip bringing this all together and bridging it to ATA, which is new, and not sold in any volume, since no other device uses it (unlike flash in general, and USB microcontrollers used for thumb drives).