My New 12inch Powerbook is a lemon!

[ozlow]

Ordered a 12 inch powerbook from Macmall on the Sept. 16th.

Recieved it on Oct. 1st. Notice a group of two dead pixels. Brought it to the Apple Genus Bar on the 11th about the pixel problem.

Apple shipped it out on the 12th. Got it back on the 15th. The pixel problem wasn't fixed of course, but you can't blame me for trying.

Oct 22nd. Panic Kernal. Won't allow me to do anything. I bring it to the Genus Bar. I was told that the Logic Board is dead and that I would have to send it in again.

Seeing as though Apple won't give me a new one. Mac Mall won't give me a new one. I'm subjected to go to the MacStore.
They seem willing to do a trade in for one of the new iBooks.

I'm not really sure what to do. I hate this Powerbook 12" and I'm getting a really bad vibe that this is just one of those machines that is going to give me headaches.

Anyone have a good suggestion?

Thanks,

-oz

[yellow]

Sorry that you're having so much trouble. First off, I'd like to say that the "Genius Bar" is neither a bar, nor populated with Geniuses. I've managed to stump them every time I go in with relatively simple questions that I already know the answer to.

Soapboxbitch aside, what's your aversion to sending it in again to get the logic board replaced? Your machine is under warranty and you have AppleCare (you DID buy AppleCare didn't you? Tsk, tsk if you didn't!), so all the shipping and labor and parts are free. Sure it's inconvenient because you don't have your 12"pb, but wouldn't you rather have it then an old ibook?

Have you tried doing any troubleshooting to figure out if it is indeed the logic board or perhaps something else that's causing the panix?

[Linkster82]

My 12" doesn't have half the problems yours does, but the hinge on my screen is so tight it makes a creaking/cracking noise when I open it. Only slightly disconcerting. I'm sending it back to Apple to get that fixed.

As for AppleCare, screw that. Most problems occur with the first year, so forget the $349. That's just outrageous to pay anyway.

[fraeone]

Yeah the AppleCare is so expensive I'm not really thrilled about buying it either. On the other hand, if you decide you want it later, it *can* be purchased anytime within the first year after buying your machine, right?

I'm just thinking that if I have a repair or two within the first year, I might feel differently about the second two years. As for talking to Apple tech support people, no thanks :)

[jayscheuerle]

It's a travesty that one should feel compelled to buy Applecare in case their machine is shipped with problems. There should be some kind of computer Lemon-Law. These tales of woe are happening too frequently around here. It would be one thing if people were spilling beer on the keyboard or running the whole thing over with a mulching mower, but Applecare as insurance against a bum machine being sent to you is BAD...

:mad:

[ozlow]

Originally posted by yellow
Sorry that you're having so much trouble. First off, I'd like to say that the "Genius Bar" is neither a bar, nor populated with Geniuses. I've managed to stump them every time I go in with relatively simple questions that I already know the answer to.

Soapboxbitch aside, what's your aversion to sending it in again to get the logic board replaced? Your machine is under warranty and you have AppleCare (you DID buy AppleCare didn't you? Tsk, tsk if you didn't!), so all the shipping and labor and parts are free. Sure it's inconvenient because you don't have your 12"pb, but wouldn't you rather have it then an old ibook?

Have you tried doing any troubleshooting to figure out if it is indeed the logic board or perhaps something else that's causing the panix?

At this point I would love to have my old iBook back...It never gave me problems.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
It's a travesty that one should feel compelled to buy Applecare in case their machine is shipped with problems. There should be some kind of computer Lemon-Law. These tales of woe are happening too frequently around here. It would be one thing if people were spilling beer on the keyboard or running the whole thing over with a mulching mower, but Applecare as insurance against a bum machine being sent to you is BAD...

:mad:

but you do get 3 months of phone support + 9 more months of hardware support, so it seems to me that if you get an outright "lemon" you should know it before your original coverage is up...

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
but you do get 3 months of phone support + 9 more months of hardware support, so it seems to me that if you get an outright "lemon" you should know it before your original coverage is up...

I'd hope that within a certain time period, they'd just replace your machine versus trying to fix it for you. It seems that when a machine has a problem, it has more than one...

[Mblazened]

Anybody who is stupid enough to buy a laptop without applecare deserves whats coming to them. Enjoy your $1000+ repairs.

[Mblazened]

Originally posted by Linkster82

As for AppleCare, screw that. Most problems occur with the first year, so forget the $349. That's just outrageous to pay anyway.

That isn't true. The older a machine is, the more likely something inside will fail.

Every day i get ibooks and powerbooks (within first 2 years of purchase) in here with dead backlights, logic boards, etc. These repairs are over $1000. Don't learn your lesson the hard way. Get applecare. And be careful with your computers.

-max

[ozlow]

Originally posted by Mblazened
Anybody who is stupid enough to buy a laptop without applecare deserves whats coming to them. Enjoy your $1000+ repairs.

For the most part I only have my laptops or computers for a year. Why would I pay for something when I'll sell it after a year anyway. I should have coverage the first year...RIGHT?

This a a 23 day old machine. 5 of which were spent at Apple to tell me they wouldn't do anything for my pixel cluster.

I've only had about two weeks of use. They should just replace it, but they are being complete jerks. Infact the Manager of the U-Village store said she would take it back after I had the pixel problem (I would have to pay for a restock fee), but now that there's a kernal panic she won't. Don't you think a kernal panic would be worse than dead pixels?

-oz

[Macmaniac]

Originally posted by ozlow
Ordered a 12 inch powerbook from Macmall on the Sept. 16th.

Recieved it on Oct. 1st. Notice a group of two dead pixels. Brought it to the Apple Genus Bar on the 11th about the pixel problem.

Apple shipped it out on the 12th. Got it back on the 15th. The pixel problem wasn't fixed of course, but you can't blame me for trying.

Oct 22nd. Panic Kernal. Won't allow me to do anything. I bring it to the Genus Bar. I was told that the Logic Board is dead and that I would have to send it in again.

Seeing as though Apple won't give me a new one. Mac Mall won't give me a new one. I'm subjected to go to the MacStore.
They seem willing to do a trade in for one of the new iBooks.

I'm not really sure what to do. I hate this Powerbook 12" and I'm getting a really bad vibe that this is just one of those machines that is going to give me headaches.

Anyone have a good suggestion?

Thanks,

-oz
Go to a local authorized Apple store, don't look for a chain mall store, look for an indepndently owned one. Tell them your problem and have them look at it, remember you have Applecare for 90 days so you can have the store send it in and replace the MLB. If its not working Apple should have the part replaced, indepdent stores will most likely be on your side.

[latergator116]

You have to be very stern with apple on the phone. Dont take no for an answer. Also, ask to take to someone else and they will give you the manager or someone of higher authority. Remember they dont want replace your machine so they will do everything they can do not too. Applecare is so worth it! I learned the hard way. I had a dual USB iBook with soo many problems. Every time I sent it in a new problem occureed the next week. And of coure going by my luck my logic board died a week after warranty. So i get it fixed. Then harddrive crashes. When i finish replacing with new hardrive logic board dies again. and i said "its not worth one damn penny tp put in a new board so im gonna sell the parts" The main reason why i didnt buy applecare was because i didnt have the $$. So now look where i have ended up? no computer(im using my parents eMac)

[johnnyjibbs]

I don't have AppleCare. All of my past PCs have lasted (my first one is still working fine and that's about 8 years old). Ok, so laptops are more prone to disaster but why spend a third of the cost of a major repair just in case it goes wrong in years 2 or 3. Sod's law will say that if anything does go wrong it will be the moment AppleCare runs out.

Remember, you are far more likely to drop a machine or have it nicked, for which AppleCare does not cover you.

There are two many watchdog programs in the UK at the moment saying how extended warranties (a.k.a. AppleCare) are a complete waste of money but they have a good profit margin on them so the companies want you to have it.

I was of the opinion that Macs were built to a higher quality than cheap PCs so I expect my machine to last.

[uhlawboi80]

i opted to not get applecare. I have everything backed up, and my major concern is me breaking the thing! ive dropped it more than once, so i just have insurance on it. applecare wont cover it if i knock it off a second floor ledge, or dump my drink on it. though my insurnace covers it for most damage. and even if whatever happens is wear and tear, a subsequent accident with my subway soda will just replace it all ;)

as for your computer, if it keeps having issues, you can call apple and ive seen them replace computers that have serveral issues soon out of the box.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by Mblazened
Anybody who is stupid enough to buy a laptop without applecare deserves whats coming to them. Enjoy your $1000+ repairs.

That's an embarrassing testament to the quality of Apple's laptops...

[Robertk2012]

$1000 really wow thats hard to believe. The laptop barely costs that lol. And if something breaks its in the first few months or after 3 years. So dont buy Applrcare unless your abusive to your laptop. Apples have problems but remmeber that they have the highest rated quallity and customer satisfaction. I think 20% of dells have problems out of the box and they are #2.

[Giaguara]

2 dead pixesl is not a reason to get your laptop replaced. the limit is i think 5, or 10 pixesl.

sorry for dead logic board though. i had that on my ibook, not on my pbook.

[Giaguara]

besides, ONE kernel panic is not the sign of dead logic board.

when i had dead logic board, i got FIFTY kernel panics a day on a slower machine, ibook. so on a faster omne you should get more panics too. but you are not out of warranty so no panic.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by yellow
Soapboxbitch aside, what's your aversion to sending it in again to get the logic board replaced? Your machine is under warranty and you have AppleCare (you DID buy AppleCare didn't you?

You get 1 year of free service and 90 days free telephone support with the PowerBook, AppleCare or not.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by yellow
Sorry that you're having so much trouble. First off, I'd like to say that the "Genius Bar" is neither a bar, nor populated with Geniuses. I've managed to stump them every time I go in with relatively simple questions that I already know the answer to.


And I bet there was someone waiting to be seen who would've benefited from their help, but you were showing off and trying to impress them.

I bet they get people like you all the time, and I bet they don't use words as nice as 'loser' when you've left.

[iJon]

ok, let me give you my opinions, i am just goint to comment on many of the things i have read without quoting people. first off, apple doesnt reaplace laptops, they clearly say this and you shouldnt be expecthing that. also, dont listen to this newbie guy saying you screwed yourself without applecare. applecare is insurance and is dependent on the person, personally i would never go without it, but it depends how much a dollar is worth to you. obviously if you are gonna sell this in a year applecare will be no value to you. next, most of the time geniuses at the bar do not know more than everyone else in the store. i have easily stumped them as well and they do seem to lack knowledge. about the guy commenting on taking it to an independent reseller and them being on your side, its doubtful. since you didnt buy it there they are not going to go all out to help you out. now if you had bought your powerbook from them in the first place you would have probably had this solved by now with less pain, but you can give it a shot. basically here is my advice, and i really wouldnt consider it advice since you really have no other options. your computer will not be replaced, so stop expecting it. take it to apple, have it sent off, if the logic board is dead then it will be replaced. if you have dead pixels the screen will not be replaced, just policy. try rubbing them out softly with a cloth. now if constantly send back your powerbook only to be returned with an occuring problem or new problem complain to apple, they listen to the customer and just explain your frustration, but only after numerous repairs. also, i have a question, when you said you had a kernel panic and couldn't do anything, did you mean that literally. could you start up, restart, elaborate a littl more and we can possibly save you a trip to the apple store.

iJon

[reflex]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
It's a travesty that one should feel compelled to buy Applecare in case their machine is shipped with problems. There should be some kind of computer Lemon-Law. These tales of woe are happening too frequently around here. It would be one thing if people were spilling beer on the keyboard or running the whole thing over with a mulching mower, but Applecare as insurance against a bum machine being sent to you is BAD...

Normally, when you receive a defective product, it doesn't matter what warranty you bought (or didn't buy). You can return it. Same goes for "hidden defects", normally. Of course it's not always easy to defend your rights...

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by iJon
ok, let me give you my opinions, i am just goint to comment on many of the things i have read without quoting people. first off, apple doesnt reaplace laptops, they clearly say this and you shouldnt be expecthing that. also, dont listen to this newbie guy saying you screwed yourself without applecare. applecare is insurance and is dependent on the person, personally i would never go without it, but it depends how much a dollar is worth to you. obviously if you are gonna sell this in a year applecare will be no value to you. next, most of the time geniuses at the bar do not know more than everyone else in the store. i have easily stumped them as well and they do seem to lack knowledge. about the guy commenting on taking it to an independent reseller and them being on your side, its doubtful. since you didnt buy it there they are not going to go all out to help you out. now if you had bought your powerbook from them in the first place you would have probably had this solved by now with less pain, but you can give it a shot. basically here is my advice, and i really wouldnt consider it advice since you really have no other options. your computer will not be replaced, so stop expecting it. take it to apple, have it sent off, if the logic board is dead then it will be replaced. if you have dead pixels the screen will not be replaced, just policy. try rubbing them out softly with a cloth. now if constantly send back your powerbook only to be returned with an occuring problem or new problem complain to apple, they listen to the customer and just explain your frustration, but only after numerous repairs. also, i have a question, when you said you had a kernel panic and couldn't do anything, did you mean that literally. could you start up, restart, elaborate a littl more and we can possibly save you a trip to the apple store.

iJon

Well said. And as for the geniuses, they're only human!:)

[bradbomb]

All these people in here are saying you need to get AppleCare and they are right, its helped me a lot on my Powerbook G3 I got while at school in NYC, but there is one problem at least for me. AppleCare isn't allowed to be sold in Fl. You cant get AppleCare if you live in Fl from at least Apple Store Online. Oddly I've seen AppleCare boxes at local CompUSA. Does anyone really know the reason for it. They've said its because of Florida insurance laws, but wouldnt that also not allow it to be sold in CompUSA.

[dlibook]

I agree with the above just send it back to apple. I would also suggest when you call them to talk to there customer relations. I had a ibook 700 that they kept replacing the logic board on. After about the 4th time in six months I complained about it to customer relations and they told me it it did it again they would replace it. 2months later they replaced it

[yellow]

Originally posted by gotohamish
And I bet there was someone waiting to be seen who would've benefited from their help, but you were showing off and trying to impress them.
I bet they get people like you all the time, and I bet they don't use words as nice as 'loser' when you've left.
Apprently you are one of these 'Geniuses'. I direct you to the Rules of the Forum (http://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=4). And for the record, there was no one waiting. I make my living supporting Apples and wanted to size up the competition. In my opinion, a 22 year old that worked in engineering that goes to a 2 week training camp, a "genius" does not make. Grow up.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by yellow
Apprently you are one of these 'Geniuses'. I direct you to the Rules of the Forum (http://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=4). And for the record, there was no one waiting. I make my living supporting Apples and wanted to size up the competition. In my opinion, a 22 year old that worked in engineering that goes to a 2 week training camp, a "genius" does not make. Grow up.

I apologise if I riled you up there, but I still feel you are incorrect. I think you'll find that all people who work at the Genius Bar are "geniuses". Why? Because that's the job description Apple gave them, whether you feel they earned it or not.

I assume you applied for that job then?

If you were an Apple Store Mac Genius, you'd be proud and would call yourself a Mac Genius - and there would still be dozens of people right here in these forums and beyond who could 'catch you out' for the fun of it, but most of us don't waste our time with that kind of childish behaviour, we'd do something productive.

[yellow]

Originally posted by gotohamish
I assume you applied for that job then? I did not, as that would be a pay cut. Like too many phone techs, if you were worth your salt in support, your first mantra wouldn't be 'reinstall the OS'. And I maintain my opinion that at the Apple Store in my city, there are no "Geniuses" employed.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by yellow
I did not, as that would be a pay cut. Like too many phone techs, if you were worth your salt in support, your first mantra wouldn't be 'reinstall the OS'. And I maintain my opinion that at the Apple Store in my city, there are no "Geniuses" employed.

You've got no competition then! Quit getting annoyed about it.

And if you don't like the service in the store, don't go there!

[yellow]

Originally posted by gotohamish
And if you don't like the service in the store, don't go there! I go for the food and stay for the freaks.

[ozlow]

Well, the first thing I had to do is get it back to apple for repairs.

I sent it back using the Mac Store.

I'll keep you posted.

-oz

[jxyama]

it's probably worth it to put down a clarification on the apple warranty...

with your new computer (or a refurb), you get one year of hardware coverage and 90 days of phone support. this means within the first 90 days, you can call apple customer service, free of charge, and ask them any questions you have.

after 90 days, you only have hardware coverage. when you call apple, they will ask for a credit card number to charge you $49 per incident IF and ONLY IF the question you have is NOT hardware related. if the problem you have with your machine is related some software you've installed, then apple will charge you that $49 because diagnosing and solving that kind of problem is not part of the warranty.

apple care basically extends that first 90 day service - "you can ask any question you want for free" - to 3 years.

a lot of people get furious that they are being charged $49 when in fact, apple will only charge if it's not hardware related.

personally, i have rev. A 12" PB i got in feb. and will not be buying applecare. even with edu. discount, it's $285. at that price, with the rapid advancement and price drops of newer machines, i'd rather get a new laptop than fix my "old" one. i sure hope mine doesn't break, but if it does, i'm not sure if i want to spend so much to fix a machine that will be quite "old." i have all my doc's backed up, which is the most precious thing on my computer anyway...

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by bradbomb
All these people in here are saying you need to get AppleCare and they are right, its helped me a lot on my Powerbook G3 I got while at school in NYC, but there is one problem at least for me. AppleCare isn't allowed to be sold in Fl. You cant get AppleCare if you live in Fl from at least Apple Store Online. Oddly I've seen AppleCare boxes at local CompUSA. Does anyone really know the reason for it. They've said its because of Florida insurance laws, but wouldnt that also not allow it to be sold in CompUSA.

Perhaps if you buy it and apply, and it says you're from Florida, they won't give you the service. Maybe the boxes are for tourists who just happen to buy Macs in Florida. It's a dumb explanation, but it's not entirely implausible.