Safari 3.1 to Bring Performance Boosts ("Snappier")

[Khurram]

Just read this over on digg and downloaded the webkit build...holy **** this browswer flies!!!
I've been a devout firefox user forever but this is some serious speed.

i'm linking the article here and the direct download is within that article..just try it out and check out the load times, scrolling speed, and just overall snappiness!
The perfect companion to my MBA!!
please post your opinions if you try it out

link
http://blogs.computerworld.com/safar...get_crazy_fast

[xUKHCx]

I like using the nightlies have been doing so for quite a long time now.

I use NightShift (http://web.mac.com/reinholdpenner/Software/NightShift.html) to download and install it automatically everynight. I use Lingon to launch Nightshift at a specified time.

There are nightlies of FF which apparently are fast also.

[thesdx]

I saw the article on 9to5mac and decided to check it out. It's extremely fast! If you want to see some real specs on how fast it is, open up the new WebKit and Safari 3, and run the Slickspeed tests. Firefox comes in at 344, Safari at 155, and Webkit at 118. Pretty fast. :D

[Khurram]

So would you recommend Nightshift?
also are you using the FF version or the safari version right now..any comparisons in the two browswers that you could share?I like using the nightlies have been doing so for quite a long time now.

I use NightShift (http://web.mac.com/reinholdpenner/Software/NightShift.html) to download and install it automatically everynight. I use Lingon to launch Nightshift at a specified time.

There are nightlies of FF which apparently are fast also.

[JNB]

Running it right now, and yeah, it cooks!

[Khurram]

So being new to nightlies -
do they basically update the software on a nightly basis?
It seems that the firefox version is called firefix?

Aside from the amazing load times the other thing that I love is how fast the scrolling on webpages is! On firefox it was quite slow but on this webkit it flows like butter!

[xUKHCx]

So would you recommend Nightshift?
also are you using the FF version or the safari version right now..any comparisons in the two browswers that you could share?

Well yes I would recommend it as it means I have an up to date nightly served up to me everynight.

Firefox - (Minefield) 3.0b4pre

It looks so much nicer than previous versions of Firefox and is definitely quicker however it doesn't play nice with Little Snitch so it annoys me. As such I haven't done much playing/using. It is a good update to firefox as far as I can see and does have more features than Safari. However these features aren't that compelling for me and I just love Safari (webkit).

The font that Firefox uses in this version doesn't seem to work well and I can't seem to get it to change, but then again it is a beta release so oddities are expected.

So being new to nightlies -
do they basically update the software on a nightly basis?
It seems that the firefox version is called firefix?

Aside from the amazing load times the other thing that I love is how fast the scrolling on webpages is! On firefox it was quite slow but on this webkit it flows like butter!

As the name suggests the are the nightly builds of the program and represent the work carried out that day on the project. Some times there is no update in a day or two but we can't expect them to work 7 days a week.

[Khurram]

Thanks for the info..
just installed nightshift

[xUKHCx]

Thanks for the info..
just installed nightshift

With one of the releases of Nightshift there was an error with the location of the nightly that stopped it working correctly. The correct address is Preferences - Nightly Build URL - http://nightly.webkit.org/builds/latest/mac

You have to remember to run it every night by default. As I previously stated I use Lingon (http://lingon.sourceforge.net/) to schedule Nightshift to run everynight at a specific time. While a useful tool just be careful that you don't mess with anything else.

[clevin]

javascript speed improvement is indeed very significant, which has been documented in webkit's blog for a while.

again, webkit probably moved lot of stuff to OSX native, which makes me wonder if the same javascript performance enhancement will be seen in konqueror.

two points.
1. reading from cache in safari/webkit still slow, why?
2. all above mentioned are javscript speeds, javascript, altho become more important recently, is only part of the webpage.

[xUKHCx]

two points.
1. reading from cache in safari/webkit still slow, why?
2. all above mentioned are javscript speeds, javascript, altho become more important recently, is only part of the webpage.

1. It is not slow for me, actually just testing it some more it is silly fast.

[Eric Lewis]

where do i get this file?

[benlee]

Can someone explain exactly what the webkit is?

[iarejedi]

Does installing webkit also update safari itself, or do i have to use webkit itself to see the changes. Cause I sort of feel safari is a bit faster now.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but oh well..

[xUKHCx]

where do i get this file?

I posted the link above but you can get them from here (http://nightly.webkit.org/) and read about it here (http://webkit.org/blog/)

edit:Can someone explain exactly what the webkit is?

webkit is basically Safari but it is the name that is given to the development project.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Computerworld notes (http://blogs.computerworld.com/safari_is_about_to_get_crazy_fast) that the latest Webkit nightly builds offer considerable performance boosts over the current public Safari build (3.0.4) -- with Javascript benchmarks over 2.5x faster in some instances.

While these performace boosts in Webkit date to at least November 2007 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/30/latest-safari-webkit-builds-boost-javascript-performance/), Weintraub speculates that the optimizations will find its way into the just-beta'd Safari 3.1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/06/os-x-10-5-2-9c31-seeded-safari-3-1-beta-incorporates-latest-webkit-features/).

Indeed, we've managed to track down Sunspider (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html) Javascript benchmark results from the same build that Weintraub used (r30090) vs Safari 3.1 (Beta) on a Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz. The results:

Shorter times are faster.

Webkit Build r30090 (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B141,136,137,135,136%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B149,148,148,148,150%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B143,144,141,142,143%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B71,71,70,73,70%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B243,243,240,243,237%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B157,157,158,153,157%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B62,61,59,59,61%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B69,70,71,72,69%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B102,105,105,100,103%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B191,196,190,195,197%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B111,112,113,112,112%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B94,94,95,94,93%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B85,87,85,85,86%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B85,89,88,86,84%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B83,87,85,88,87%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B142,143,142,144,142%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B166,167,166,180,168%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B196,196,195,196,198%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B211,212,210,212,211%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B88,87,87,87,88%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B208,207,206,207,205%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B108,109,106,111,107%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B196,194,195,195,196%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B135,132,134,135,132%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B135,137,136,136,136%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B123,120,122,120,121%5D%7D): 3495.8ms
Safari 3.1 Beta (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B135,132,134,129,129%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B144,144,144,146,143%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B137,138,138,135,136%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B70,71,70,70,71%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B249,246,243,244,249%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B150,148,148,148,148%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B60,59,59,59,59%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B77,76,74,74,74%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B114,111,112,109,109%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B185,187,179,185,189%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B112,114,112,111,112%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B92,95,94,92,93%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B80,83,83,84,82%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B81,83,84,84,82%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B83,84,82,82,82%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B135,136,136,136,138%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B163,160,162,164,162%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B182,187,185,182,185%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B200,202,200,201,209%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B85,86,87,87,86%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B204,206,205,205,207%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B97,97,102,98,98%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B184,191,182,185,187%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B134,133,134,130,130%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B135,135,135,137,135%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B117,119,120,119,117%5D%7D): 3408.0ms
Safari 3.0.4: 9302.3ms (extrapolated)

Webkit is an open source project that serves as the basis for Apple's Safari browser. Webkit's nightly builds (http://nightly.webkit.org/) offer end-users access to the latest (potentially unstable) Webkit updates. A number of other browsers also use Webkit and will also benefit from these improvements.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/09/safari-3-1-to-bring-performance-boosts-snappier/)

[Grimace]

Definitely snappier!! Thanks Steve! :D

I've always thought it was a heavy browser compared to Firefox and Opera. Syncing iPhone bookmarks through Safari made me switch back.

[Mindfield]

I don't care about speed. I only care that they could make Safari more reliable. I ain't using it, because it keeps crashin'.

[jsw]

I suppose we'll need to temporarily suspend our rule against "Safari seems snappier" quotes post-update for this one. :D

[chubad]

All I care about is snappiness!!! :D

[Aperture]

I posted the link above but you can get them from here (http://nightly.webkit.org/) and read about it here (http://webkit.org/blog/)

edit:

webkit is basically Safari but it is the name that is given to the development project.

So, does each WebKit build eventually evolve into the next version/update of Safari?

[seclusion]

In the voice of our good friend Homer..

Ggrrrllll AHhhh, Snnnnnaaaappppiiiieerrr ahhhhhggggggrrrll.

[cyberjunky]

i thought webkit was just the rendering engine for W3C standard formats, and safari would extend the functionality into a UI. Maybe im wrong...

I thought there were other browsers built on top of WebKit.

[Peace]

Safari beta IS much snappier ;)

Never thought there would be a real reason to type that..

[El Magnificante]

Is there a "New Tab" button yet ?

[brad.c]

Does that mean it'll be even "snappier" when 10.5.2 ships?

Snort.

Okay, I'm using it now. Would I need to go to a java-intensive site to see a noticeable performance improvement?

[kabunaru]

Any improvement we get is better than no improvement at all.

[NC MacGuy]

Wicked fast!! Not just 'snappier'... Even MapQuest one of my notoriously slow faves absolutely flies.

[writeous]

Who would have thought Safari's snaptensity could get any snappier.:rolleyes:

[Sandfleaz]

Safari beta IS much snappier ;)

Never thought there would be a real reason to type that..

Darn, beat me to it!
.

[toxicbomber]

Darn, beat me to it!
.

I'll just say it again and it's real guys... get it! :D ITS AWESOME! SAFARI IS SNAPPIER! :eek:

[Lepton]

I hope some of this code also gets into the next iPhone software release. The JavaScript runs a tad sluggish on the phones.

[rendezvouscp]

Does anybody know what revision is shipped in Safari 3.1 Beta?

[QuarterSwede]

Now all they need to do is improve Flash, and by that I mean recycle it from garbage to shiny plugin.

[BornAgainMac]

The Snappier quotes never get old for me. I didn't expect Apple to touch Safari until 10.6.

[Morod]

Safari? Snappier? Sorta Snappier? Super Snappier? Even... Ultra Snappier? I will have to check this out! Thanks for the link!
Morod

[toxicbomber]

Now seriously why are people giving NEGATIVES to this?!?!? :eek:

[Eidorian]

Time to start using WebKit again.

[henry.oswald]

does everyone feel its snappier? feels the very similar to me......:confused:

[stockcerts]

I'm a little naive, but what is Webkit?

[djgamble]

You tried re-sizing the windows with the beta? I heard that's snappier (j/k)

So I tried the test with webkit 30109 and I got some slightly better results; overall 3284ms on a MacBook Pro (2.33ghz).

Here's the detailed result:

http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B135,131,128,133,128%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B139,140,139,138,139%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B131,127,129,132,130%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B66,66,66,66,67%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B231,228,230,240,237%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B141,142,140,140,142%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B62,61,58,57,64%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B66,64,67,66,66%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B98,96,100,96,95%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B190,184,184,190,189%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B108,107,107,106,106%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B90,89,89,93,89%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B78,78,78,78,82%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B82,83,82,80,79%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B79,78,82,78,80%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B133,133,134,131,133%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B147,148,148,151,148%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B175,178,180,173,175%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B206,205,200,206,205%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B82,86,81,82,81%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B198,196,205,198,200%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B101,101,101,98,100%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B177,178,178,177,180%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B128,128,127,126,128%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B129,134,133,129,130%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B118,114,118,120,114%5D%7D

[ksgant]

How about they actually DO something with Google...since they announced all this buddy-buddy stuff like a year ago with someone from Google coming out on stage and talking up how they're friends.

What I'm getting at is having something like Google Tool-bar built into Safari...or at least have it as an option. This is one of the main reasons why I still use Firefox and not Safari is because of Google Tool-bar.

Like instantly searching for images...or news....or search a site. Other aspects of Google Toolbar are right there in Safari like spell checking and form-filling...but just a search bar with Google isn't enough. And it doesn't even open up a fresh tab, just opens up right over the page your on.

That's another thing I love about Firefox, you can set it to always...and I mean ALWAYS open a tab instead of a new window. With Safari you have to Option-click or whatever if you want to make sure something opens in a new tab....if not it pops up a new Safari window. I hate that. I want one window and multiple tabs on my browser....and if some link wants to open a new window, it's automagically just taken to a new tab. Safari needs this...or again, at least the option.

[clevin]

1. It is not slow for me, actually just testing it some more it is silly fast.

when you click back/forward button, both firefox and opera read from cache, the page load normally finished in 1 sec, while safari/webkit seems still try to load something from internet, result in the slowness. You didn't have this problem?

[xUKHCx]

when you click back/forward button, both firefox and opera read from cache, the page load normally finished in 1 sec, while safari/webkit seems still try to load something from internet, result in the slowness. You didn't have this problem?

On this forum going back does as you describe (it is hardly slow though) but going forwards is lickety split. Going between this forum and another site it is all from cache and blazing, going between different sites it is blazing. So perhaps the way Webkit deals with VBulletin forums is different to firefox/opera but it seems to only be limited to this forum and going back.

Note: By blazing I mean fractions of seconds, too fast to guess.

[grappler]

Maybe they put some heavy optimization work into it for the iphone's benefit?

[clevin]

is this whole story about javascript? or this article also has some other speed boost of webkit regarding page loading, picture decoding, etc?

"Snappier" can't be only javscript related, can it?

[happydude]

All I care about is snappiness!!! :D

yeah, no doubt, man!! bring on the snappiness!!!

[xUKHCx]

is this whole story about javascript? or this article also has some other speed boost of webkit regarding page loading, picture decoding, etc?

"Snappier" can't be only javscript related, can it?

Check out the blog (http://webkit.org/). And perhaps try out the latest build. I'm surprised you haven't done so already mr browser man.

[Rocketman]

You know you have been reading MacRumors too long when "Safari is snappier" graduates from poster fixations to thread headline on the front page. :)

Rocketman

[clevin]

Check out the blog (http://webkit.org/). And perhaps try out the latest build. I'm surprised you haven't done so already mr browser man.

I read there already, thats why I asked since I couldn't find detailed info.

I did tried safari/webkit from time to time, I tried it about 1 week ago, most recently, as you know, there are too many things it doesn't fit me well. So far, those ms speed advantages aren't significant enough to overcome those inconveniences to me.;)

[Sky Blue]

What I'm getting at is having something like Google Tool-bar built into Safari.


How could you even suggest that?

[Bonsai1214]

so would one recommend replacing safari with the beta build or the webkit build as of now?

[bigandy]

Is there a "New Tab" button yet ?
:apple: + T :rolleyes:

Google Tool-bar
Oh. God. No.

Toolbars are horrific. 'nuff said.

[clevin]

so would one recommend replacing safari with the beta build or the webkit build as of now?

is there a beta at all?

:apple: + T :rolleyes:


which means answer to original question is "NO" ;)

[bigandy]

so would one recommend replacing safari with the beta build or the webkit build as of now?
There's no need. Webkit can coexist with Safari happily. ;)

which means answer to original question is "NO" ;)
Yeah, and there's no need for one..

[clevin]

Yeah, and there's no need for one..
well, to each of their own, group thinking is so 1600s.

still, I wonder why there is a need for a button called "report a bug to apple" for safari, but no need for a button called "new tab"? interesting, at least.

[Khurram]

for me the speed difference is incredible from what I've been getting from firefox. I mean pages are loading ridiculously fast and everything is just working amazingly fast. So you guys are saying that the latest beta of safari currently available is faster than the currently available webkit?

[Project]

I don't need teh snappy in Safari, its already there. I need stability.

[pixelbart]

I tried it with large discussions on /. with the 'new discussion system' enabled (a 'demanding javascript application') and, wow! I also tested Opera 9.5 some time ago and it also has vastly improved javascript performance.

You know what I hope? That IE8 (or an update to IE7), WebKit/KHTML, Gecko and Opera all get decent JS performance and that web developers will *use* it so that older browsers become too slow to work with. Maybe that will kill IE6 finally so we can all write almost quirk-less XHTML Strict code that renders fine in every browser.

[kster]

so when is the final version out?

[benlee]

well, to each of their own, group thinking is so 1600s.

still, I wonder why there is a need for a button called "report a bug to apple" for safari, but no need for a button called "new tab"? interesting, at least.

What is wrong with right clicking on the tab bar?

[clevin]

What is wrong with right clicking on the tab bar?

nothing is wrong. but you can't blame people for wanting it to be easier. and I think one click is easier than two different mice button clicks with moving between them.

[Tosser]

nothing is wrong. but you can't blame people for wanting it to be easier. and I think one click is easier than two different mice button clicks with moving between them.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. What I find funny about that discussion, though, is that didn't even realise it didn't have such a button. I never use buttons at all. Always shortcuts and no top bar/navigation bar. I was quite surprised to discover you guys were right. That _is_ a weird thing to leave out.

[Khurram]

I can't seem to install webkit into my apps folder..it just launches from the disk image which I cannot eject afterwards..
any idea why I can't install this into my apps folder?

[clevin]

I can't seem to install webkit into my apps folder..it just launches from the disk image which I cannot eject afterwards..
any idea why I can't install this into my apps folder?

you can't drag it to your application folder?

[KindredMAC]

This forum seems snappier..... hmmmmm....

[Khurram]

you can't drag it to your application folder?

i've dragged it to my apps folder but when I try to eject the disk image it says it's in use and can't be ejected.
On a side note..in my finder on the sidebar my applications folder has completely disappeared.
Pardon the ignorance, but how do I get it back? I have the apps folder in my dock but it's not in the sidebar in the finder.

[Bonsai1214]

another question: how "snappy" (word of the day huh?) is it compared to the FF3 beta?

[clevin]

i've dragged it to my apps folder but when I try to eject the disk image it says it's in use and can't be ejected.
On a side note..in my finder on the sidebar my applications folder has completely disappeared.
Pardon the ignorance, but how do I get it back? I have the apps folder in my dock but it's not in the sidebar in the finder.
you can always open finder and drag the application folder to side bar
On this forum going back does as you describe (it is hardly slow though) but going forwards is lickety split. Going between this forum and another site it is all from cache and blazing, going between different sites it is blazing.
I don't think its a forum issue, I just tried msnbc.com, go there, click any link to read an article, then click backward button, safari/webkit is still reading something and takes 1~2 sec to display the page, while firefox/opera display the page INSTANTLY.

another question: how "snappy" (word of the day huh?) is it compared to the FF3 beta?
well, it IS fast, so if you only equal whole browser snappiness to javascript speed, which is hardly true, webkit is indeed fast. however, like I mentioned, javascript is only part of the webpage. And so far, webkit back/forward loading from history is quite slow compare to firefox/opera.

Here is test result of Javascript.

[Sbrocket]

Just a quick note on something I saw earlier in this thread, before the news posting...

I wouldn't recommend FireFix (or NightShift, for that matter) to the average user. Nightlies are exactly what their name implies - nightly builds of software. What this means is that bug fixes and new code improvements get checked into the tree every day and complied into the "nightly," but that also means any new, possibly data-corrupting or show-stopping bugs could have gotten complied in too. Firefox's nightlies are called "Minefield" for a good reason, folks. As someone who regularly does bug triage on Bugzilla, I really have to discourage people from using nightlies unless they have a specific purpose in using them or are a developer. They're untested and frequently completely unstable.

That said...use them if you want, but use them at your own risk.

[Bonsai1214]

for some reason, the text rendered by webkit looks a lot cleaner. maybe its just me...

[clevin]

for some reason, the text rendered by webkit looks a lot cleaner. maybe its just me...

well, you are not the only one who say so. But I can't tell, especially with FX3. Still, I might be one of the people who prefers Vista's font AA approach.

[vendettabass]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

bring this to the iphone :)

[John.B]

Now all they need to do is improve Flash, and by that I mean recycle it from garbage to shiny plugin.
I'd rather have a decent flashblock than an "improved Flash".

[Kingsly]

Safari seems snappier™ just reading this thread! :cool:

[KingYaba]

I'm not noticing a difference.

[richard.mac]

my Safari just got snappier thinking about it. other things are starting to get snappier too..... oOoO

[GulGnu]

Now we just need the right-click "search using Google" option to open a new tab instead of taking you away from the current page. (which is moronic)

Apart from that quibble, this should make an already great browser even greater.

[richard.mac]

Now we just need the right-click "search using Google" option to open a new tab instead of taking you away from the current page. (which is moronic)

Apart from that quibble, this should make an already great browser even greater.

try holding command while clicking search in Google. unless its opening in a new tab for me as i have "Always open browser window in tab" selected in Saft.

[solipsism]

WebKit r30109 has also passed 78/100 of the new Acid3 test. That is 20 more since just 10 days ago when the test became available. Quite impressive!

[ksgant]

How could you even suggest that?


Oh. God. No.

Toolbars are horrific. 'nuff said.

Um...because the Google toolbar is actually useful? It works? It's quicker than using the lame, generic search that's in Safari? I honestly don't see how you can live without it.

Or are you guys old fashioned and just type in "www.google.com" and use their web-page to go and search? Do you also type out "http://" also while you're at it? Might as well as antiquated as you two seem to be. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should go back to the original Netscape, you may be more at home there. :D

At least give those of us that are in the 21st century the option of having something like this while also giving those in the horse-and-buggy era the option not to have it.

[cloudness]

WebKit r30109 has also passed 78/100 of the new Acid3 test. That is 20 more since just 10 days ago when the test became available. Quite impressive!

And WebKit r30119 (built tonight) scores 80/100 on Acid3. That's a steady 2 points a day! In less than 2 weeks they managed to get way ahead of both FF3 and Opera9.

[JesterJJZ]

Anyone know when Safari on Windows is going public? It's been in beta since forever.

[fastbite]

I must be another of the blind people here -- I don't perceive any difference either.

[TruthSerum44]

Um...because the Google toolbar is actually useful? It works? It's quicker than using the lame, generic search that's in Safari? I honestly don't see how you can live without it.

Or are you guys old fashioned and just type in "www.google.com" and use their web-page to go and search? Do you also type out "http://" also while you're at it? Might as well as antiquated as you two seem to be.

Maybe you should go back to the original Netscape, you may be more at home there.

At least give those of us that are in the 21st century the option of having something like this while also giving those in the horse-and-buggy era the option not to have it.

Toolbars ARE horrific...they look awful and are unnecessary. All of the features available in Google Toolbar could be put in without the use of a space taking, eye-sore of a toolbar. In case you didn't know, Macs are supposed to be good with simplicity and aesthetics, two things toolbars know nothing about.

I agree that Safari could use a TON of the features that Firefox has, either built in or through the use of extensions, but a toolbar is not the best method of implementation. Oh, and it probably takes 1 second longer to type something into the google search bar and then click the images tab on the google page...so let's not tell people to go back to Netscape or call them antiquated for putting priority in a decent and usable interface over features galore and a cluttered browsing experience. It seems like you're a good candidate for the bloatware that's called Firefox..."you may be more at home there...I honestly don't know how you can live without." :p (sorry, but I had to post something like this with the tone of your post, haha)

[motulist]

nothing is wrong. but you can't blame people for wanting it to be easier. and I think one click is easier than two different mice button clicks with moving between them.

But the more buttons you put on screen, the more difficult the entire program becomes. I think Apple rightly reasoned that anyone sophisticated enough to work with tabs is sophisticated enough that they'd never want to click an on-screen button to get a new tab instead of just hitting a key command.

[solipsism]

And WebKit r30119 (built tonight) scores 80/100 on Acid3. That's a steady 2 points a day! In less than 2 weeks they managed to get way ahead of both FF3 and Opera9.

I was just about to post that. It's quite impressive, especially since FF won't even be Acid2 compliant until version 3.

I'm a big fan of what tends to come out of open source projects. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of it, but the effort seems to always be misdirected and unorganized. I can't say that for WebKit. These people are going to be Acid3 compliant in 10 days if they keep going at there current rate.

[GulGnu]

try holding command while clicking search in Google. unless its opening in a new tab for me as i have "Always open browser window in tab" selected in Saft.

Command doesn't work. Setting the option did work, however - big thanks ;)

[GulGnu]

But the more buttons you put on screen, the more difficult the entire program becomes. I think Apple rightly reasoned that anyone sophisticated enough to work with tabs is sophisticated enough that they'd never want to click an on-screen button to get a new tab instead of just hitting a key command.

Which is why Safari should just copy Firefox in this regard - double click the tab bar to create a new tab.

[jMc]

Which is why Safari should just copy Firefox in this regard - double click the tab bar to create a new tab.

My Safari already seems to do this. But I have Saft and Stand installed, so perhaps it's an option on one of those.

jx

[link92]

Can someone explain exactly what the webkit is?

http://webkit.org/blog/101/back-to-basics/ explains what it is: it's a browser engine, that Safari uses.

[MacsAttack]

Safari snappier? What next? G5 PowerBook next Tuesday? :)

[mysticalos]

http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit/browser/tags

In other words, Safari 3.1 Leopard build =Safari 3.1 (5525.7)
Safari-5525.7=r29911

As for those that ask what webkit is and what is different from safari.

Webkit is only the browser engine, it's a framework that installs in OS X that is used by MANY applications besides safari, believe it or not, mail, ichat, yahoo messenger, adium, etc all use webkit for various rendering functions.

Safari is NOT webkit, Safari is only a UI shell basically. It is merely the app itself that gives webkit shape into an actual web browser under mac os x. Two different things that just come together into one great package.

Webkit nightlies

Webkit nightlies function by shipping a basic launcher with an updated webkit framework inside of it. However this launcher is NOT an updated safari application. all it does is opens your existing safari version off hard drive with a custom specified path to the updated webkit framework inside the webkit launcher. In other words, you use a webkit nightly, you are still using safari 3.0.4 application with an updated version of webkit framework. so you will have all the fixes and improvements to webkit framework and rendering and speed done, but may still lack some of the UI or application based improvements made by 3.1 beta. In other words, downloading webkit nightly does not equal running safari 3.1. It equals running 3.0.4 with faster engine ;)...3.1 has it's own improvements in itself when it ships you'll see em ;). Also, installing webkit nightlies has no effect on other applications such as mail or ichat as they will still use the old webkit framework installed in system/library/frameworks/webkit. The webkit.app launcher ONLY tells safari.app to use the nightly webkit framework.

[xUKHCx]

I don't think its a forum issue, I just tried msnbc.com, go there, click any link to read an article, then click backward button, safari/webkit is still reading something and takes 1~2 sec to display the page, while firefox/opera display the page INSTANTLY.

Well it seems it is on some sites, that I why I specficaly gave an example rather than saying all sites. The sites I uses regularly it is all from cache and very fast, perhaps it has to do with page content and specific types cause it to reload the page from the web rather than from the cache. For example bbc sports page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/) is instant.


In regards to the whole button thing about new tabs. There should be a button, just because you might use cmd+t or you might solely use File - New Tab, or you use cmd+clicking links, or cmd+shift+f and cmd+enter to create new tabs, doesn't mean that everyone should be happy using them. Also what people are forgetting the button are removable.

See my button bar below

101964

I got ride of add to bookmarks because I use cmd+d.I got ride of Open in Dashboard because I have used that a grand total of 3 times and can access it via ctrl+click when I need to. How often do I create new tabs perhaps 100 times a day so what is more worthy of button.

[Tosser]

See my button bar below

101964




You have three more buttons than I have :cool:

[Icewind]

I can't see any difference whatsoever!

Omniweb is still blistering fast by comparison. Add to that 'per-site preferences' and the result is Omniweb is a much nicer browsing experience all in.

[clevin]

But the more buttons you put on screen, the more difficult the entire program becomes. I think Apple rightly reasoned that anyone sophisticated enough to work with tabs is sophisticated enough that they'd never want to click an on-screen button to get a new tab instead of just hitting a key command.

thats not a valid argument regarding this problem, this has nothing to do with saving space. there are anther ~7 buttons you can drag to toolbar, if space is a problem, why give users that options at all?

Not to mention that I just don't believe anybody can use "report a bug" button more frequently than "new tab" button.

[Eraserhead]

thats not a valid argument regarding this problem, this has nothing to do with saving space. there are anther ~7 buttons you can drag to toolbar, if space is a problem, why give users that options at all?

Because too many options are bad too as they are confusing. They don't have a "New Window" button either.

[clevin]

Because too many options are bad too as they are confusing. They don't have a "New Window" button either.

new windows button is not as important an issue, because safari, by default, is a multi-window browser.

Again, whats confusing about a new tab button? replace that report a bug button with new tab button, nobody said it has to be shown by default. where is the problem with that arrangement?

[ksgant]

Oh, and it probably takes 1 second longer to type something into the google search bar and then click the images tab on the google page

Cool...then tell me how to quickly search a site via google then. For instance the toolbar would let me search all of MacRumors forums for "goofball" with just a quick mouseclick. How do I quickly do that in Safari other than typing out "www.google.com/search?q=site:forums.macrumors.com+goofball"? As we all know, this software for the forums can be limited in it's search function. But let's say the search functions are robust here at MacRumors...it may not be at other sites and it's very quick to search a site via Google and it's toolbar.

And again, just give us a fricken option. If YOU don't want it, then don't enable it...plain and simple. But it always seems to be "I don't need it and it looks ugly, so therefore no one should be able to use it".

[motulist]

thats not a valid argument regarding this problem, this has nothing to do with saving space. there are anther ~7 buttons you can drag to toolbar, if space is a problem, why give users that options at all?

Not to mention that I just don't believe anybody can use "report a bug" button more frequently than "new tab" button.

It's a completely valid argument, you've just misunderstood it. My argument isn't that there isn't enough screen space for more buttons, it's that if you put too many on there, especially buttons that most people will very seldom use, then the interface becomes cluttered and it becomes harder to easily hit the buttons you actually want to use. And as I said, for the vast majority of people that are sophisticated enough to use tabs, they'll almost all also be sophisticated enough to want to use a key command over an on screen button. So there are very few people who would actually want or use such a button.

I guess there's no huge reason to not make it as a customizable button. Perhaps they don't want to put in too many customizable button options because then people (especially newer safari users) will overload the toolbar with unnecessary buttons and actually make their safari experience a bad one. I think for the small number of people that would want such a button that they are well served by using the plug ins that were mentioned above (saft or whatever) that already can be used to add that function to safari.

[clevin]

it's that if you put too many on there, especially buttons that most people will very seldom use, then the interface becomes cluttered and it becomes harder to easy hit the buttons you actually want to use. I guess there's no huge reason to not make it as a customizable button.

1. nobody said it has to be shown by default, firefox doesn't have it shown by default, nor does opera. Im only asking about customizable button

2. to talk about "seldom use", "report a bug" i crown jewel of seldom use.

3. All your reasoning, exactly how can you justify the report a bug button? too many customizable button? Thats not a sincere reasoning, to be honest. if report a bug is justifiable, why new tab button is one button too much?

[motulist]

How do I quickly do that in Safari other than typing out "www.google.com/search?q=site:forums.macrumors.com+goofball"

I'm not saying that there aren't some better tools out there for some situations, but to be fair you made your query much more complicated than it needs to be to create the desired search in this situation. All you'd need to do in the google search field is type "site:macrumors.com goofball"

[motulist]

1. nobody said it has to be shown by default, firefox doesn't have it shown by default, nor does opera. Im only asking about customizable button

Perhaps you replied before I made the edit in my post above, which I think responds to this point.


2. to talk about "seldom use", "report a bug" i crown jewel of seldom use.

I'm sure that button is very seldom used, but I bet when it does gets used it performs a very important function. For instance, perhaps when it does get used it has been very important to the continuing advancements of safari, or perhaps it's a very important placebo so that when a user encounters a bug in safari they can feel like their concern is being addressed instead of just suffering in silence and being frustrated at home alone, or whatever. It's not like Apple is at all afraid of removing features or functions in any of their software. So I'm sure if they didn't think that that button was performing a valuable function then it wouldn't still be there.

[Eraserhead]

Cool...then tell me how to quickly search a site via google then.

Add site:<<yourwebsite.com>> to your search.

[clevin]

All you'd need to do in the google search field is type "site:macrumors.com goofball"

you can't be serious? to search a 8 letters word, you have to input 3 time more? please, is there something weird I fail to understand?



I'm sure that button is very seldom used, but I bet when it does gets used it performs a very important function. .

boy, how do I say this,, no offense, but I think you are standing there defending apple blindly, you do not consider what users need, you only try to guess "why apple is doing this way", and you stick to one principle that is "apple is never wrong in these decisions".

Its not how discussion works, let readers decide, make a pole if you want, in a neutral ground.

[motulist]

you can't be serious? to search a 8 letters word, you have to input 3 time more? please, is there something weird I fail to understand?

I don't understand why you can't have a civilized conversation without getting all snotty in your responses. And did you even read what I wrote? I explicitly said 'there are better tools for certain situations,' and I was just pointing out that the OP was making things much more complicated than they really are.

[Eraserhead]

Celvin, I think you are probably right on this one, and that Apple should add these options, however although adding a new tab button is probably worthwhile, it is more important to know that there is a limit to the number of buttons you should offer to avoid confusing the user.

Apple tries hard to get these things right, but they certainly don't always succeed, but it is what makes them better than other manufacturers is that they try.

[motulist]

boy, how do I say this,, no offense, but I think you are standing there defending apple blindly, you do not consider what users need, you only try to guess "why apple is doing this way", and you stick to one principle that is "apple is never wrong in these decisions".

Its not how discussion works, let readers decide, make a pole if you want, in a neutral ground.

Oh please, read my comments in other threads, I'm far from a blind Apple defender. In fact I'm often the one condemning Apple for mistakes they've made in the face of a torrent of apologists. Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn't mean I'm some thoughtless slobbering fool who blindly follows anyone.

I'm done with this conversation. You're being rude and obstinate and bordering on trolling. Maybe you just need some sleep or coffee or something and you'll be in a more civilized mood on another day.

[clevin]

Oh please, read my comments in other threads, I'm far from a blind Apple defender. In fact I'm often the one condemning Apple for mistakes they've made in the face of a torrent of apologists. Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn't mean I'm some thoughtless slobbering fool who blindly follows anyone.

well, I apologize if my characteristic of your argument is wrong.

But take a look at what you said on this issue. you are essentially arguing

"report a bug button" of safari i more important than "new tab" button.

nothing more need to be said, jut make a poll and ask users.

[JNB]

"Do not confuse taste with an authoritative position, nor opinion for fact."

That's my sig for a reason. It's to remind myself (and others, it they're paying attention) that their personal opinion should not be held as the arbiter of what Apple did right or wrong for anybody but themselves, nor should it be relied upon as the shield & sword in what passes for debate sometimes.

I think folks need to step back from this and take a breath. All I've seen in the last couple dozen posts is a lot of posturing & foot-stomping over what frikkin' feature needs to be there, or which poster is clueless because of a personal choice. You're starting to embarrass yourselves. Time out.

Back OT, I'm pretty impressed with Safari on Webkit. I've been solidly using Camino for quite a while now, and FF & Opera just always felt a little off to me (odd, since I swear by FF on the Windows side. Go figure). I would like to be able to right-click on a bookmark and "open in a new tab", though... ;)

[Wayfarer]

Safari snappier? What next? G5 PowerBook next Tuesday? :)

Quoted for post of the day!

[motulist]

I would like to be able to right-click on a bookmark and "open in a new tab", though... ;)

Option click does that. (or option-shift-click depending on how your key commands are set)

[JNB]

Option click does that. (or option-shift-click depending on how your key commands are set)

It's Command-click for me. It's more of a "muscle memory" thing, I guess, and at my age, I don't toggle back & forth between browser conventions like I used to. ;)

[motulist]

It's Command-click for me. It's more of a "muscle memory" thing, I guess, and at my age, I don't toggle back & forth between browser conventions like I used to. ;)

Oops, yeah I meant command, not option. I think the reason why I wrote option instead of command is because of the changing conventions thing you mentioned. Because I'm still not used to writing 'command key' instead of 'apple key.'

[MBX]

am i missing something?

i tested webkit and i didn't notice any speed increase. in fact i thought it was a bit slower than the normal safari.

[El Magnificante]

Many times I browse with the keyboard nowhere near me; thus the OPTION of a New Tab button is handy.

Any browser that doesn't offer this OPTION is jokeshop.

And right-click only works in Safari once you have more than one tab going.

:apple::confused:

[Xtremehkr]

Maybe they are planning on releasing it with 10.5.2, I hope it comes out soon. I can see why Apple is so busy though, in the last week, a wide variety of programs have been updated or tweaked. Maybe they'll just continue incremental updates of everything, either way, it's good to know that the programmers are hard at work behind the scenes. With all of these speed improvements I'm going to end up having to get a faster Mac.

[motulist]

And right-click only works in Safari once you have more than one tab going.

Right click can work even when there's only 1 tab open, but you have to set safari to always show the tab bar. When just one tab is open go View > Show Tab Bar. Then it'll always be there.

[El Magnificante]

The point is:

Safari requires the user to use the keyboard.

Too bad

[motulist]

The point is:

Safari requires the user to use the keyboard.

Too bad

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well, you can simply right click for a new tab, even when there's only 1 tab open.

[clevin]

am i missing something?

i tested webkit and i didn't notice any speed increase. in fact i thought it was a bit slower than the normal safari.

I said this title of "snappier" is misleading, browser performance are decided by many factors, only improvement this article mentioned is javascript.

Browser speed != javascript speed.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well, you can simply right click for a new tab, even when there's only 1 tab open.
right click, move mice to proper item on context menu, and then left click to create a new tab.

[bigandy]

Many times I browse with the keyboard nowhere near me; thus the OPTION of a New Tab button is handy.

Any browser that doesn't offer this OPTION is jokeshop.

And right-click only works in Safari once you have more than one tab going.

and how is a new tab button useful if you've not got a keyboard nearby when you're wanting to type an address in for a new website tab? :rolleyes:

[clevin]

and how is a new tab button useful if you've not got a keyboard nearby when you're wanting to type an address in for a new website tab? :rolleyes:

this is not a good argument, there is no best way to solve all the problems, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it step by step, first make creating a new tab easier, then figure out rest of it.

Which brings me to another annoyance of safari/webkit, there is no drop down history list of urlbar untill you input something. In Firefox, there is a arrow at the right end of url bar, so you can browse through your history, keyboard free!

[djellison]

Well - whatever's going on, Apple need to sort out Safari and Adobe need to sort out flash - because at the moment, both are dreadfully slow.

Doug

[El Magnificante]

and how is a new tab button useful if you've not got a keyboard nearby when you're wanting to type an address in for a new website tab? :rolleyes:

Copy and paste an address?

Anyhow, obviously the fanboys don't understand how one could want the OPTION of this button, so enjoy your browser, I'm out. :)

[pianoplayer1]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

there IS a new tab button with a simple plugin called safaristand. Works with 3.0 and webkit.

Edit: it can also force all "new window" links to open
in tabs

[phuong]

how do you define "snapier"

[thesdx]

how do you define "snapier"

Quicker, more responsive, smoother, etc.

[jhsfosho]

Awesome. any speed boost is always a good thing.

[MacMyDay]

I don't care about speed. I only care that they could make Safari more reliable. I ain't using it, because it keeps crashin'.

Oh, soooo true. Ever since the Leopard update it crashes about 4-5 times a day. On both my computers.

[GirthP]

If they had a StumbleUpon option available, I'd switch. Until then, I'm a Firefox man.

[TruthSerum44]

I find it strange how so many of you don't even want the OPTION of having a new tab button, double clicking to create a new tab, or the multitude of other features that browsers such as firefox and opera have. While I don't want safari to turn into bloatware, I'd say a few extra options would surely be nice (so long as the speed of safari is retained). That said, I really don't care what the new safari is like, because I will continue to use the nightly webkit :p

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Many times I browse with the keyboard nowhere near me; thus the OPTION of a New Tab button is handy.

Any browser that doesn't offer this OPTION is jokeshop.

And right-click only works in Safari once you have more than one tab going.

:apple::confused:

Do any of you people use a regular 3-button scroll mouse? Seriously, I picked up a nice Dynex black model 5-button optical for under $20 at Best Buy that works GREAT with my Mac. No "option click" or "command click" or whatever the heck you have to remember to open links into a tab. With either Safari or Firefox, just MIDDLE CLICK and it opens automatically into a new tab. I mean I know some of you are Apple zealots, but seriously Apple mice SUCK BIG TIME. It's one area they REALLY need to admit defeat in and get with the ergnomic 3+ button models.

Griping about having to PUSH a keyboard button to open a tab with a link is SILLY to me because if you bought a real mouse, you'd just have to push the scroll-wheel button to open the tab. I thought the newer mice (mighty mouse?) from Apple (this one that came with this Mac was one of those old round non-ergonomic ones that doesn't even have a 2nd button period) had a button at least in the middle of them even if it has no scroll wheel. Or is that button the right mouse button? I never used one and have no desire to since traditional mice work just fine in OSX.


Don't even get me going on Apple keyboards. I liked the mini-USB hub the one that came with this used PowerMac Digital Audio had, but that's the ONLY thing I liked about it. The keys on it need to be pressed VERY hard to register (I'd often have missing characters when I type because apparently I didn't SMASH the keys hard enough...reminds me a little bit of a manual typewriter, believe it or not.... I can't help but wonder if all those comments about problems with the Macbook Pro's keyboard are due to having similar keys on them that require much harder than normal (as in a typical PC keyboard) pressing to register fully). Then there's the fact that particular model doesn't have a DELETE key (just the backspace one, which it CALLS delete and no END key plus small sized arrow keys in a non-standard location... reminds me of a laptop keyboard, really). I've seen their new style "flat" keyboard and I can't imagine that typing well for high speed typers like myself either.

I picked up a decent Logitech keyboard which works great with this Mac (only downside is the ctrl/option/mac keys are mapped differently, but then I blame that on Apple for not following convention; you CAN remap them in OSX any way you like; I made the standard CTRL key into the Command key since all computers on the face of the earth except ones running Apple operating systems use CTRL-C to copy (etc.) not WINDOW key or ALT key (depending on how you look at it or map it) AND it puts it in a different place so those of us that DO use Windows and Linux are perpetually hitting the wrong key by sheer instinct memory. Mapping command to CTRL works great for MacOSX, but if I run X11, I suddenly have to hit ALT since now CTRL is mapped to ALT instead (since CTRL in OSX isn't used for much).

I tried a Dynex on there earlier, but for some bizarre reason my DVD-RW drive kept opening its door on a reboot (known bug with it apparently on the PowerMac... no idea WHY since the Logitech works perfectly fine). I moved that one over to my PC/Linux machine when its keyboard recently died.

I am anxious to see this new Safari 3.1 (assuming the release it for Tiger) since Safari is SO much faster on this PowerMac G4 than Firefox. It actually makes this old machine (dual 533 G4) very usable as an Internet browsing machine (Firefox feels so slow compared to my newer 5600+ PC running Firefox on XP or Linux, but Safari holds its own on the older Mac by comparison) so any further speed improvements can only help. I do agree it would be VERY nice if Safari had extensions like Firefox (I found an Adblock plugin for Safari, but that's about it. I did see a shareware plugin that makes it a lot more customizable, etc., but I refuse to pay for what I can get for free on Firefox. Freeware seems a LOT less common on Macs compard to Windows and Linux. Paying for browser extensions when there are hundreds for Firefox for FREE? I don't think so. If people want Safari to BEAT Firefox in ALL areas, they need to realize that FREE is the major selling point for Firefox + extensions. Safari is free, but most of the plugins/extensions I've seen for it are not. OTOH, if someone can convert Firefox's AdBlock for Safari, why can't more of the best extensions be converted over?

[psychofreak]

(I found an Adblock plugin for Safari, but that's about it. I did see a shareware plugin that makes it a lot more customizable, etc., but I refuse to pay for what I can get for free on Firefox. Freeware seems a LOT less common on Macs compard to Windows and Linux. Paying for browser extensions when there are hundreds for Firefox for FREE? I don't think so. If people want Safari to BEAT Firefox in ALL areas, they need to realize that FREE is the major selling point for Firefox + extensions. Safari is free, but most of the plugins/extensions I've seen for it are not. OTOH, if someone can convert Firefox's AdBlock for Safari, why can't more of the best extensions be converted over?

Take a look at Safari AdBlock (http://safariadblock.sourceforge.net/) which is free :)

[solipsism]

I find it strange how so many of you don't even want the OPTION of having a new tab button, double clicking to create a new tab, or the multitude of other features that browsers such as firefox and opera have. While I don't want safari to turn into bloatware, I'd say a few extra options would surely be nice (so long as the speed of safari is retained). That said, I really don't care what the new safari is like, because I will continue to use the nightly webkit :p

I like the idea of double-clicking the Tab bar to add a tab. It is very Mac-like in its simplicity.

I'll still be using the nightly builds of WebKit, too. This afternoon's build has made it 81/100 compliant to the Acid3 test.

[iPoodOverZune]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

there IS a new tab button with a simple plugin called safaristand. Works with 3.0 and webkit.

Edit: it can also force all "new window" links to open
in tabs

I can't seem to find this New tab button or option to get that! Can you guide me where in the settings this can be enabled?

I installed this plugin and I like that I am back to Safari again. I started using OmniWeb as it offers this sidebar functionality for looking at tabs. Actually, i like this plugin style even better - it is inside the window rather than as a drawer style. That way it is neatly tucked on the left hand side. Also, now I don't need to remember the terminal command to initiate the debug menu in Safari (used that to open the page in different browser)

EDIT: Actually I figured that if I just double click in the sidebar in the open space, it opens a new tab.

[clevin]

With either Safari or Firefox, just MIDDLE CLICK and it opens automatically into a new tab.

sometimes middle click doesn't work in safari. like my homepage www.protopage.com

[achtung!]

MagnusVonMagnum said: (...)seriously Apple mice SUCK BIG TIME(...)I never used one and have no desire to since traditional mice work just fine in OSX.

i think you dig your own hole! get a life! if you've never used one, i suggest you don't talk about it. don't talk about something you don't understand. i like it, and it has more than 3 buttons/sensitive areas, but, you've never used one, so how could you know?! "period". ;)

[psychofreak]

I can't seem to find this New tab button or option to get that! Can you guide me where in the settings this can be enabled?

After installing SafariStand, it is in the regular View->Customize toolbar menu :)

[manhattanboy]

If they had a StumbleUpon option available, I'd switch. Until then, I'm a Firefox man.

Well, if I can be a rambling man for a second. I tried the nightly build and there is a speed increase (so I guess this makes me now a one-minute man instead of a 2-minute man).
But the coolest feature is that safari now has gold rims... calling all gold diggers.

[cyberjunky]

Tab button and half a million other buttons later and we end up with something as ugly as IE7.

Use keyboard shortcuts, :apple:+T for a new tab.

The only problem i feel with tabs in Safari is the inability to reorder tabs that go beyond the length of the window into the drop down menu extension, same problem exists for the bookmarks bar aswell.

[twoodcc]

nice. looking forward to this and 10.5.2

[clevin]

Tab button and half a million other buttons later and we end up with something as ugly as IE7.

Use keyboard shortcuts, :apple:+T for a new tab.


how do you like that "report bug" button?

[kewo]

6 pages of 'new tab, new tab' and no mention of command+t??

I thought everyone used keyboard shortcuts for both safari and FF.

[clevin]

6 pages of 'new tab, new tab' and no mention of command+t??

I thought everyone used keyboard shortcuts for both safari and FF.

you would be surprised how many ppl out there are majority mice users.

[rendezvouscp]

But the coolest feature is that safari now has gold rims... calling all gold diggers.

WebKit is golden so that it stands out compared to Safari; the icon for Safari will not be changing to gold in Safari 3.1.

[zweigand]

Which is why Safari should just copy Firefox in this regard - double click the tab bar to create a new tab.
Am I the only one who never creates a new tab first? All you have to do is start typing in the URL bar and simply hold down the Command button when you hit Return and it automatically opens that link OR Google search in a new tab.

[clevin]

Am I the only one who never creates a new tab first? All you have to do is start typing in the URL bar and simply hold down the Command button when you hit Return and it automatically opens that link OR Google search in a new tab.

you might not be the only one, but you are sure not represent all users.

I just realize that 80% of the time, I never need to input anything in url bar, protopage + firefox url bar drop down history pretty much cover most of my websites...

[cloudnine]

I can't seem to find this New tab button or option to get that! Can you guide me where in the settings this can be enabled?

I installed this plugin and I like that I am back to Safari again. I started using OmniWeb as it offers this sidebar functionality for looking at tabs. Actually, i like this plugin style even better - it is inside the window rather than as a drawer style. That way it is neatly tucked on the left hand side. Also, now I don't need to remember the terminal command to initiate the debug menu in Safari (used that to open the page in different browser)

EDIT: Actually I figured that if I just double click in the sidebar in the open space, it opens a new tab.


It's called Command-t.

[cloudnine]

Am I the only one who never creates a new tab first? All you have to do is start typing in the URL bar and simply hold down the Command button when you hit Return and it automatically opens that link OR Google search in a new tab.

Oh cool! I never new that... I always open the tab first, then enter the web address. Thanks! :D

[glennsan]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Computerworld notes (http://blogs.computerworld.com/safari_is_about_to_get_crazy_fast) that the latest Webkit nightly builds offer considerable performance boosts over the current public Safari build (3.0.4) -- with Javascript benchmarks over 2.5x faster in some instances.

While these performace boosts in Webkit date to at least November 2007 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/30/latest-safari-webkit-builds-boost-javascript-performance/), Weintraub speculates that the optimizations will find its way into the just-beta'd Safari 3.1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/06/os-x-10-5-2-9c31-seeded-safari-3-1-beta-incorporates-latest-webkit-features/).

Indeed, we've managed to track down Sunspider (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html) Javascript benchmark results from the same build that Weintraub used (r30090) vs Safari 3.1 (Beta) on a Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz. The results:

Shorter times are faster.

Webkit Build r30090 (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B141,136,137,135,136%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B149,148,148,148,150%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B143,144,141,142,143%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B71,71,70,73,70%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B243,243,240,243,237%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B157,157,158,153,157%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B62,61,59,59,61%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B69,70,71,72,69%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B102,105,105,100,103%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B191,196,190,195,197%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B111,112,113,112,112%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B94,94,95,94,93%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B85,87,85,85,86%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B85,89,88,86,84%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B83,87,85,88,87%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B142,143,142,144,142%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B166,167,166,180,168%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B196,196,195,196,198%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B211,212,210,212,211%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B88,87,87,87,88%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B208,207,206,207,205%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B108,109,106,111,107%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B196,194,195,195,196%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B135,132,134,135,132%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B135,137,136,136,136%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B123,120,122,120,121%5D%7D): 3495.8ms
Safari 3.1 Beta (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B135,132,134,129,129%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B144,144,144,146,143%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B137,138,138,135,136%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B70,71,70,70,71%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B249,246,243,244,249%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B150,148,148,148,148%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B60,59,59,59,59%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B77,76,74,74,74%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B114,111,112,109,109%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B185,187,179,185,189%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B112,114,112,111,112%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B92,95,94,92,93%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B80,83,83,84,82%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B81,83,84,84,82%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B83,84,82,82,82%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B135,136,136,136,138%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B163,160,162,164,162%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B182,187,185,182,185%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B200,202,200,201,209%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B85,86,87,87,86%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B204,206,205,205,207%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B97,97,102,98,98%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B184,191,182,185,187%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B134,133,134,130,130%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B135,135,135,137,135%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B117,119,120,119,117%5D%7D): 3408.0ms
Safari 3.0.4: 9302.3ms (extrapolated)

Webkit is an open source project that serves as the basis for Apple's Safari browser. Webkit's nightly builds (http://nightly.webkit.org/) offer end-users access to the latest (potentially unstable) Webkit updates. A number of other browsers also use Webkit and will also benefit from these improvements.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/09/safari-3-1-to-bring-performance-boosts-snappier/)

Will this work with the 3.x version in 10.4.11? Thank you.

Glennsan

[xwk88]

new windows button is not as important an issue, because safari, by default, is a multi-window browser.

Again, whats confusing about a new tab button? replace that report a bug button with new tab button, nobody said it has to be shown by default. where is the problem with that arrangement?

I keep looking and can't find this so called report a bug button :confused:
I see it on the drop down menu, but then again so is new tab under File....

just press :apple:+t it works fine at least for me anyways.....

how do I get rid of the + sign but I never use it as :apple:+d adds a bookmark any ways help :D:)

[rendezvouscp]

View:Customize Toolbar... allows you to get rid of the Add Bookmark button and add the Report Bug button.

[Daveoc64]

I find the report a bug option to be annoying.

Basic functionality goes out of the window to allow Safari to look like a beta.

[winterspan]

Can someone explain exactly what the webkit is?

I'm not trying to single you out, but I honestly don't understand questions like this. I mean you could open a new browser tab and have "webkit" pulled up on wikipedia in less than 10 seconds. Instead you take the time to write out a question and potentially wait for an hour to get a response. What gives? are you too lazy do a search? Am I the only one that thinks this is weird? Again, no offense, I am just interested.

[.adam]

I love the way fanboys won't even accept that some people would like to have a new tab button. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean others won't.

[walnuts]

Indeed, we've managed to track down Sunspider (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html) Javascript benchmark results from the same build that Weintraub used (r30090) vs Safari 3.1 (Beta) on a Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz. The results:

Shorter times are faster.

Webkit Build r30090 (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B141,136,137,135,136%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B149,148,148,148,150%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B143,144,141,142,143%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B71,71,70,73,70%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B243,243,240,243,237%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B157,157,158,153,157%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B62,61,59,59,61%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B69,70,71,72,69%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B102,105,105,100,103%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B191,196,190,195,197%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B111,112,113,112,112%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B94,94,95,94,93%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B85,87,85,85,86%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B85,89,88,86,84%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B83,87,85,88,87%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B142,143,142,144,142%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B166,167,166,180,168%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B196,196,195,196,198%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B211,212,210,212,211%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B88,87,87,87,88%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B208,207,206,207,205%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B108,109,106,111,107%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B196,194,195,195,196%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B135,132,134,135,132%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B135,137,136,136,136%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B123,120,122,120,121%5D%7D): 3495.8ms
Safari 3.1 Beta (http://webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-results.html?%7B%223d-cube%22:%5B135,132,134,129,129%5D,%223d-morph%22:%5B144,144,144,146,143%5D,%223d-raytrace%22:%5B137,138,138,135,136%5D,%22access-binary-trees%22:%5B70,71,70,70,71%5D,%22access-fannkuch%22:%5B249,246,243,244,249%5D,%22access-nbody%22:%5B150,148,148,148,148%5D,%22access-nsieve%22:%5B60,59,59,59,59%5D,%22bitops-3bit-bits-in-byte%22:%5B77,76,74,74,74%5D,%22bitops-bits-in-byte%22:%5B114,111,112,109,109%5D,%22bitops-bitwise-and%22:%5B185,187,179,185,189%5D,%22bitops-nsieve-bits%22:%5B112,114,112,111,112%5D,%22controlflow-recursive%22:%5B92,95,94,92,93%5D,%22crypto-aes%22:%5B80,83,83,84,82%5D,%22crypto-md5%22:%5B81,83,84,84,82%5D,%22crypto-sha1%22:%5B83,84,82,82,82%5D,%22date-format-tofte%22:%5B135,136,136,136,138%5D,%22date-format-xparb%22:%5B163,160,162,164,162%5D,%22math-cordic%22:%5B182,187,185,182,185%5D,%22math-partial-sums%22:%5B200,202,200,201,209%5D,%22math-spectral-norm%22:%5B85,86,87,87,86%5D,%22regexp-dna%22:%5B204,206,205,205,207%5D,%22string-base64%22:%5B97,97,102,98,98%5D,%22string-fasta%22:%5B184,191,182,185,187%5D,%22string-tagcloud%22:%5B134,133,134,130,130%5D,%22string-unpack-code%22:%5B135,135,135,137,135%5D,%22string-validate-input%22:%5B117,119,120,119,117%5D%7D): 3408.0ms
Safari 3.0.4: 9302.3ms (extrapolated)


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/09/safari-3-1-to-bring-performance-boosts-snappier/)

Has anyone run these javascript benchmarks with Camino? I'd be curious to see how it fared.

[gloubibou]

Is there a "New Tab" button yet ?

I don't see the need for such a button. The next second you will use your keyboard to type a URL. So while your hands are on the keyboard, just hit cmd-T.

That said: double-clicking on the empty space in the tab bar does open a new tab!

Pierre Bernard
Houdah Software s.à r.l.

[WalrusCP]

I love the way fanboys won't even accept that some people would like to have a new tab button. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean others won't.

I agree - I do not understand why my fellow macophiles are being so stubborn about a simple addition to Safari. I personally WOULD use it. There is nothing wrong with having more options that allow users to customize their Safari experience.

[serpico]

I bought a new imac awhile ago and was using Firefox since my last Safari use wasn't memorable. But in the last week, I decided to give it a try. I'm pleased at how fast it is and how much better it works compared to Firefox. Compatibility is very good and even my bank supports Safari. I can't imagine it being any faster. But that's great news if this is true.

[clevin]

I don't see the need for such a button. The next second you will use your keyboard to type a URL. So while your hands are on the keyboard, just hit cmd-T.

That said: double-clicking on the empty space in the tab bar does open a new tab!

Pierre Bernard
Houdah Software s.à r.l.
double click only open new tab in firefox, sure it would be a big improvement for safari if apple eventually add this function.

Like I said, safari are more incline to ask users to use keyboard.

I can use firefox w/o inputting in url bar most of the time, url bar drop down history+a bookmark style homepage save me vast amount of input.
I keep looking and can't find this so called report a bug button :confused:
I see it on the drop down menu, but then again so is new tab under File....

just press :apple:+t it works fine at least for me anyways.....

how do I get rid of the + sign but I never use it as :apple:+d adds a bookmark any ways help :D:)
take a look, Im sure most people would agree they can use new tab button more than that report a bug button.

IMHO, new tab button probably is more useful for most users than print and autofill as well.

[deputy_doofy]

I love the way fanboys won't even accept that some people would like to have a new tab button. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean others won't.

Then I must be a "computer" fanboy, because I use command-t on Mac and control-t on Windows. I've never used a "new tab" button since the inception of tabs. Seems alien to me. That said, I don't see why it cannot be added.

[El Magnificante]

I don't see the need for such a button. The next second you will use your keyboard to type a URL. So while your hands are on the keyboard, just hit cmd-T.

That said: double-clicking on the empty space in the tab bar does open a new tab!

Pierre Bernard
Houdah Software s.à r.l.

Just because you, and all the other Apple apologists, wouldn't use a New Tab button, doesn't mean there are others who use other browsers, such as Firefox, because of such limited OPTIONS in Safari.

And to let you in on one way in which I use Firefox:

New Tab button, bookmark.

No keyboard needed to get to another site.

[achtung!]

stop the whining. there are plenty ways to get a new tab:
1. file> new tab
2. command + T
3. right click on empty space next to tabs.
4. you can even type the URL the press command+enter and it creates the new URL in a new tab! all for you!

i suggest you all start programing your own extensions, or simply just use another browser. for me this "tab" story ends here.
just my 2 cents ;)

[pianoplayer1]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Safaristand: just customize the toolbar and you will see an option for a new tab button.

By the way, is there any way to disable the tab bar so that I can only use the sidebar?

[Yaboze]

As a switcher myself, I miss having the new tab button that is just so easy to just click in IE 7. Yeah, of course you can hit a bunch of keys or right click or use the File menu but IMHO, it should be there. It's such a simple thing.

[clevin]

huh, mac is supposed to be "just work"

now it sounds like "it may not be just work, but you can do it this way to get around, maybe this way will double your hassle, but its still doable."

then why accusing windows having too much viruses? when all windows users need to do is only to install a free AVG?

Its double standard, thats what it is.

[Borjan]

Hopefully back onto topic a bit more..

Just bored. Don't really like the idea of messing around with nightlies too much, but would just like to check this out for the hell of it.

If I install and use Nightshift, does that overwrite whats going on behind my Safari permanently? I'm sure there will be an option to uninstall if afterwards, and revert back....

Right?

Just a regular user here, semi-scared of ruining things.

EDIT: Nevermind, I have read the Read Me.... turns out things are kept apart. So everything is fine!

[gloubibou]

Just because you, and all the other Apple apologists, wouldn't use a New Tab button, doesn't mean there are others who use other browsers, such as Firefox, because of such limited OPTIONS in Safari.

In Safari 3.1: double-click on the empty space in the tab bar and you get a new tab. Isn't that just as good as a button?

Pierre Bernard
Houdah Software s.à r.l.

[gloubibou]

Just because you, and all the other Apple apologists, wouldn't use a New Tab button, doesn't mean there are others who use other browsers, such as Firefox, because of such limited OPTIONS in Safari.

Less buttons == less cluttered interface == gentler learning curve

Options, you got aplenty:

- File > New Tab
- Command-T
- Contextual menu on the tab bar
- Double-click on the tab bar
- Type URL, hit Command-enter or Command-return
- Hold Command while opening a bookmark
- Command-click a link

Best,
Pierre Bernard
Houdah Software s.à r.l.

[.adam]

Then I must be a "computer" fanboy, because I use command-t on Mac and control-t on Windows. I've never used a "new tab" button since the inception of tabs. Seems alien to me. That said, I don't see why it cannot be added.

Doofy, please do not take offence to my previous post. You acknowledge that such a feature should perhaps be implemented - that's a damn sight better than those who refuse to criticise anything Apple and argue to the death why a 'New tab' button should not be added.

[psychofreak]

Doofy, please do not take offence to my previous post. You acknowledge that such a feature should perhaps be implemented - that's a damn sight better than those who refuse to criticise anything Apple and argue to the death why a 'New tab' button should not be added.

Its hardly a big deal to install Stand to get this feature...

[xUKHCx]

Its hardly a big deal to install Stand to get this feature...

It is often newcomers who might miss the option for a tab button and it is hardly fair to rely on them installing a 3rd party add in to Safari. It should be there natively no question.

[.adam]

I have got SafariStand installed and with the 'New tab' button enabled.

I'm not complaining that I don't have the functionality, it's that Apple just doesn't bother to include it natively, I have to install a 3rd party InputManager to do it and in the meantime people are telling me that Apple aren't to blame.

But what irks me the most is that some people will not and cannot find it in their hearts to criticise Apple.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products. I love my Macbook, I use Pages as opposed to Office 2004/8, I love iPhoto, iTunes and pretty much everything Apple BUT I'll speak up when there's a problem with the software and I'd happily switch if there was a better alternative. Some people on here wouldn't because they're so pro-Apple it's unreal.

The Steve Jobs thread is probably one of the best threads at highlighting it. Steve Jobs emails someone telling them to like it or lump it with dead pixels, people reply praising him for being 'matter-of-fact' and 'straight-talking'. The fact is, if Bill gates had issued a similar reply to complaints about the Zune, the very same people would be up in arms, criticising Microsoft's attitude/lack of customer service.

Blind support of a brand, I find, is quite sad.

[deputy_doofy]

Last night was the first time I ever downloaded the "gold" Safari - the webkit nightly build. I must say, this sucker is FAST. I'm a user of Firefox, but if Safari actually runs at this speed, I might consider switching.

Even more impressive, I LOVE the CSS3 animations. Is this a Safari only thing or will FF be getting that as well? I don't want the web-transforms thing to be similar to IE, where it has its own version of stuff that the rest of the browsers cannot see.

It's all exciting stuff.

[vanc]

Webkit nightly uses far too much memory than Firefox and Camino. Simply load the same web pages and you will see.

[WalrusCP]

Webkit nightly uses far too much memory than Firefox and Camino. Simply load the same web pages and you will see.

Safari has that problem in general, but the webkits are even worse. I really hope 3.1 fixes the massive memory leaks. :(

[cyberjunky]

how do you like that "report bug" button?

What about it? I have no bugs to report.

huh, mac is supposed to be "just work"

now it sounds like "it may not be just work, but you can do it this way to get around, maybe this way will double your hassle, but its still doable."


For the most part it does just work, the inability to use a simple application and/or OS just because your used to half a million toolbuttons taking half the screen away at your finger tips does not have anything to do with it not working, but rather reflects on your inability to try and learn new and better ways of doing things.


then why accusing windows having too much viruses? when all windows users need to do is only to install a free AVG?

Its double standard, thats what it is.
Yes we do, as far as im aware theres 1 known virus for mac and its not self activating and not self propogating so only a moron would
1) let it on their machine
and
2) run the file (specially after the warnings)

So yes windows does have many viruses, just because computers are getting more and more powerful does not mean we should frivolously piss it down the drain running half a dozen security apps to help defend an already battered joke of an OS

If you dont like it and feel windows is somehow superior with its viruses, malware, adware, worms, poorly designed eye bleeding and screen filling UI, DLL Hell, registry problems along with all the other crap then why not switch back to PC..

Safari has that problem in general, but the webkits are even worse. I really hope 3.1 fixes the massive memory leaks. :(

Weird i never noticed any memory leak problems with Safari except when running Flash stuff like youtube for example, however this could be attributed to macromedias mac implementation.

[clevin]

For the most part it does just work, the inability to use a simple application and/or OS just because your used to half a million toolbuttons taking half the screen away at your finger tips

does dishonest exaggeration a common thing I should expect from apple fans? and do you actually read and understand what we were talking about?

[cyberjunky]

does dishonest exaggeration a common thing I should expect from apple fans? and do you actually read and understand what we were talking about?
Dishonest? please justify how i have been dishonest?

Also I understand perfectly, they want a button to open new tabs, theres always someone bitching and whining about something.

Perhaps it is you who does not understand what im talking about?
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tr/downloads/images/classic_menu/classic_menu_a.png
Toolbar anyone? thats about 1/9th of the screen gone.

Perhaps its not enough, maybe we need MORE, yes MORE buttons...

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/2437-IE7site.jpg

If we are not careful we may end up with safari looking like this, one button at a time we get closer to imperfection, keep it simple keep it clean.

[clevin]

Dishonest? please justify how i have been dishonest?

Also I understand perfectly, they want a button to open new tabs, theres always someone bitching and whining about something.

the proposal is to replace that customizable "report a bug" button with "new tab" button. disable by default, but can be added from customization of safari/webkit toolbar.

There is no increase in number of buttons in total, so there is no argument about adding more buttons.

[motulist]

Dishonest? please justify how i have been dishonest?

Also I understand perfectly, they want a button to open new tabs, theres always someone bitching and whining about something.

Perhaps it is you who does not understand what im talking about?
Toolbar anyone? thats about 1/9th of the screen gone.

Perhaps its not enough, maybe we need MORE, yes MORE buttons...


If we are not careful we may end up with safari looking like this, one button at a time we get closer to imperfection, keep it simple keep it clean.

Perfect explanation, I couldn't have done it better myself. There are lots of people out there that would want buttons, dials and controls for whatever specific particular purpose they want. But if you give everyone the button, dial or control that they want then the end result is a huge mess that makes no one happy because the interface is now much more of a pain to use because there are so many doo hickies all over the place that you cant find what you want.

That's the exact reason why I hate MS software. Theoretically their software has a doo hicky for every feature you want, but the ones you want are so obscured by the ones you don't care about that the entire interface usability is destroyed in the process. And yes you can customize the interface, but only up to a point. And even just being able to customize the interface the way you want is a nightmare because you still have to wade through all the possible interface choices which by necessity due to their sheer number wind up with hard to understand icons and long button names.

Personally I'd rather have 1 button missing that I'd really like to be there, in order to have the rest of the interface be super easy and convenient to use.

Again, I'm not saying having a new tab button in the customizable options in necessarily a bad thing, but Apple's software designers had to draw the line somewhere to prevent the number of confusing options from getting out of control. And considering that I've only heard 2 or 3 people ever mention their desire for a new tab button within this long discussion about the issue, it makes me think that Apple drew the line in an appropriate place.

[kuwisdelu]

Dishonest? please justify how i have been dishonest?

Also I understand perfectly, they want a button to open new tabs, theres always someone bitching and whining about something.

Perhaps it is you who does not understand what im talking about?
Toolbar anyone? thats about 1/9th of the screen gone.

OH GOD! Looks more like a whole third of it gone to me. Thank you for reminding me once again why I upgraded to iWork.

http://h1.ripway.com/kuwisdelu/pages1.png

Much more pleasing to my eye. So much less clutter. Not even a "save" button! No need when I just Cmd + S anyway... :D

[cyberjunky]

the proposal is to replace that customizable "report a bug" button with "new tab" button. disable by default, but can be added from customization of safari/webkit toolbar.

There is no increase in number of buttons in total, so there is no argument about adding more buttons.

Even IF the button is added by default it still increases the button count, sure we can hide it away in the customisation menu but your only dusting the problem under the rug, AGAIN half a dozen buttons later then the customisation menu itself becomes cluttered.

Then there is the matter that when you consider after adding tonnes and tonnes of buttons for features most people wont use you actually end up with a heavier app, the more features the more potential bugs and so fourth.

Keep it simple, keep it clean, keep it WORKING!

Also, whats the point in adding a button for new users to open tabs when as you suggested it would be hidden or "disabled by default", wouldnt someone who is new to the OS probably not even know that the customisation menu exists in order to add the button, thusly defeating the point of its existance.

[justflie]

lol, I can't believe you guys are still debating this issue. Have fun. :D

[Daveoc64]

IE7 is a terrible example to use for your argument.

I can make IE7 suit my needs.

Don't need tabs? Get rid of the feature entirely.

Don't want a particular icon? Turn it off.

It's called choice which is something Apple rarely does.

Your argument is also flawed when there's a toolbar button to file a bug report.

[Fukui]

Even more impressive, I LOVE the CSS3 animations. Is this a Safari only thing or will FF be getting that as well? I don't want the web-transforms thing to be similar to IE, where it has its own version of stuff that the rest of the browsers cannot see.

It's all exciting stuff.

They are being submitted to the W3C for inclusion in CSS 3. Hopefully Firefox 3.x will support it..... and maybe IE 9 or 10 :rolleyes: or so.....

[DiamondMac]

It's called choice which is something Apple rarely does.

:confused:

Explain

[clevin]

Also, whats the point in adding a button for new users to open tabs when as you suggested it would be hidden or "disabled by default", wouldnt someone who is new to the OS probably not even know that the customisation menu exists in order to add the button, thusly defeating the point of its existance.

don't be unreasonable, every other browsers have that button hidden by default. and nobody complain about it.

and how exactly does "remove 1+add 1" increase the button count?

[cloudness]

A new button (default or not) for new tabs could be a nice option. It would make things easier for mac newbies coming from Windows/IE6 who never got used to tabbed browsing. Upon buying a new machine, I would zap it out though, as I do with half the buttons turned on by default (I used to remove all buttons in the Safari bar, but got annoyed with people using my laptop and asking me how to do without the Back button). To the risk of repeating what has been said, it is quicker to:

1. Press option while clicking on a link/history link/bookmark.
2. Press option-l, enter url, then press option-enter.

Also possible:

3. Press option-t
3. Double-click on the tab bar (if already visible or always turned on)

Now to the exciting part: nightly build 30468 is fresh out and blazingly fast! It also scores 87/100 on Acid3 (http://acid3.acidtests.org/), which puts it (again) as the best contender in completing the test first.

[uv23]

Now they just have to fix all of their back-related ajax bugs.:mad:

[cyberjunky]

don't be unreasonable, every other browsers have that button hidden by default. and nobody complain about it.

and how exactly does "remove 1+add 1" increase the button count?

Im not being unreasonable at all, if the purpose of the button is to help noobs yet it is hidden by default, then noobs wouldnt find it before they get used to doing it the proper way, thus rendering it useless. If its useless then why have it added in the first place?

People might not complain but a lot of people dont use it either, people want speed, reliability and so fourth, they can have that if they keep the solution simple, and thats what apple is doing.

[benzslrpee]

it's a damn button...get over it already. even women argue less about whether to use lip gloss or lipstick.

[Frozonecold]

Safari 3.1 doesn't need to get snappier, it is already far snappier than Firefox. Apple keep up the good work and reduce Safari's ram usage while you are at it.

[vanc]

Safari 3.1 doesn't need to get snappier, it is already far snappier than Firefox. Apple keep up the good work and reduce Safari's ram usage while you are at it.

Have you tried FireFox 3 beta 3? The page redering is even snappier than the latest webkit nightly builds. The memory usage of FF 3 is way better than Safari.

[clevin]

Safari 3.1 doesn't need to get snappier, it is already far snappier than Firefox. Apple keep up the good work and reduce Safari's ram usage while you are at it.

just a reminder, safari is based on webkit, an open source project, not apple's property. and webkit is originated from KHTML, not apple's property neither.

[iPoodOverZune]

double click only open new tab in firefox, sure it would be a big improvement for safari if apple eventually add this function.


actually, right click first to see a new tab ballon and left click to select it, opens a new tab (~= double click).

I am using a SafariStand add-on that adds a lot of functionality that you might like to have a look at it.

[iPoodOverZune]

After installing SafariStand, it is in the regular View->Customize toolbar menu :)

Thanks. I figured that actually.

For those here looking for a new Tab button (and may be more functionality), have a look at SafariStand. You might like it.

For the new tab haters here, its not that I can't live without it, its just that its a nice button to have sometime when you are lying lazy reading some stuff and you dont want to stretch to get to the keyboard. I actually like IE7 implementation of new tab (this feature and its expose type functionality to view the tabs). SafariStand provides viewing tab functionality but that too smallish window is too small view!!

[clevin]

actually, right click first to see a new tab ballon and left click to select it, opens a new tab (~= double click).

i can't agree with that, double click takes much less time, much less energy, much less focus. No need to move mice, and no need to change mice button
that "~=" just doesn't make sense here :rolleyes:
I am using a SafariStand add-on that adds a lot of functionality that you might like to have a look at it.

I don't think we want to get into discussion of extensions, safari has really no chance if we go through extensions for firefox. Im willing to stick to out of box functions of both browsers.

[MegaSignal]

Read through much (but not all) of this thread, but could not find out when 3.1 will become available...

Could someone please answer this for me?

TIA!

[kuwisdelu]

Read through much (but not all) of this thread, but could not find out when 3.1 will become available...

Could someone please answer this for me?

TIA!

You couldn't find it because no one knows. ;)