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MacRumors
Feb 12, 2008, 12:31 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In industry related news, Microsoft announced (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/technology/12danger.html?ref=technology) on Monday that they had acquired Danger, Inc. Danger is the company responsible for the popular Sidekick (http://www.sidekick.com/) marketed through T-Mobile.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/02/12/012659-sidekick.jpg

Terms of the purchase were not disclosed. The founders of Danger previously worked at Apple as engineers before leaving to found the company. Some see this is a response (http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8231483?source=most_viewed) to the Apple's recent success:Tim Bajarin, president of Creative Strategies of Campbell, said the acquisition provides further evidence that Microsoft is mirroring the thinking of Apple, which has married software and hardware to make simple, fashionable consumer products like the iPod and iPhone.

"Sometime in the last two years Microsoft fundamentally woke up and realized that even though they're a software company, they had to use hardware to control their destiny"

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/02/12/microsoft-acquires-danger-inc-sidekick/)



bloodycape
Feb 12, 2008, 12:34 AM
Danger is not the only one making Sidkicks Sharp actually made a few and most notably Moto made one also.

SAMTATSICPRO
Feb 12, 2008, 12:38 AM
I'm interested to see what this will do to apple, Probably nothing.
Microsoft is desperate for anything right now.

Doctor Q
Feb 12, 2008, 12:40 AM
Microsoft is mirroring the thinking of Apple
That's the first time this has happened. :rolleyes:

HornetOSX
Feb 12, 2008, 12:44 AM
Now all of the sidekick kids can get the sidekick 4 in poop brown to match thier Zune!!!!!!

kstefanick
Feb 12, 2008, 01:15 AM
BAHAHAHA! Why is Microsoft trying so hard to copy Apple? Are they really unable to come up with new ideas on their own? Someone should tell them that copying a great company, like Apple, is worse than coming up with something on their own and failing. Another one of Microsoft's problems is that they are just thinking about the NOW when Apple is always thinking about the future (fast money). No one will want a big bulky phone in a few months when they can have something as slim as like the iPhone. I think that Sidekicks would slowly fade out if the iPhone was available for all cell phone companies and if it wasn't so breakable.

:apple: FTW

minik
Feb 12, 2008, 02:15 AM
I have the Sidekick 3 more than a year now. It's a decent device, but heavily tied into the T-mobile/Danger services. It's sad to see MS took over Danger.

MS is really into the teens market now?

nagromme
Feb 12, 2008, 03:17 AM
Steve Wozniak was on Danger's board, BTW. May still be.

baxterbrittle
Feb 12, 2008, 04:54 AM
This is a sad sad day. Apparently Sony Ericsson has also joined with Microsoft to develop phones with Windows Mobile. So basically soon there will only be a handful of mobile operating systems and the innovation will be lost. I am not quite sure what they are aiming to do here, are Microsoft trying to capture the youth market as well as the business/smartphone market? The danger os is actually really well designed, better than just about any other mobile os, it is simple, stable, but has a lot of nice touches in it's operation. It doesn't look very Apple like, but fundamentally it is surprisingly similar. This is a sad day where an elegant well thought out operating environment has been purchased by Microsoft to then be butchered and converted to a 'teen windows mobile'

Not Happy

Eric Lewis
Feb 12, 2008, 06:36 AM
btw zune phone

waterbouy
Feb 12, 2008, 06:57 AM
btw zune phone

I am thinking it will be a zhone... :rolleyes:

Orng
Feb 12, 2008, 07:38 AM
This time next year it will be rebranded ZunePhone, and the pundits will be calling it the "iPhone Killer," and rational people everywhere will scratch their heads and wonder how exactly they think this ZunePhone is going to completely obliterate the iPhone market, or do they actually mean to say "iPhone Competitor?" But the other 90% of the population will be all like "Ohhh, Apple had better watch out!" And Steve Jobs will catch a glimpse of it on engadget and snarf his tofu. Don't laugh while you're eating, Steve!

The Zune and now this ZunePhone always make me think of Krispy Kreme's complete and utter failure to set up a Canadian operation. Anyone in Canada remember when Krispy Kreme came and everyone was all like "Ohhh, Tim Horton's had better watch out!" That worked out well for them, didn't it?

KK didn't understand that market any better than MS understands cell phones or music players, but they came flouncing in with all the hubris and cockiness they could muster. They were the Zune of doughnuts. And that was their problem: they thought we all wanted coffee and doughnuts, but what we really wanted was coffee, a bagel and chili. (And maybe a doughnut, but only if nobody's watching). :)

So yeah, that's where I see this phone going under Microsoft. A few people standing by the conveyor belt saying, "Oooh! Run mine through the glaze a few more times!" while the rest of us kind of shudder and look away.

XP XtraProblems
Feb 12, 2008, 08:37 AM
How sad. Another innovative small company with creative ideas snatched up by microsoft. The sidekick interface is at least attractive and fun to use, I guess that will be replaced by Windows Mobile, yuck.

Popeye206
Feb 12, 2008, 08:43 AM
BAHAHAHA! Why is Microsoft trying so hard to copy Apple? Are they really unable to come up with new ideas on their own?

I agree 150%! Microsoft has missed the mark so many times on their own... it seems the only thing they can do is copy anymore. It's sad.

nostaws
Feb 12, 2008, 08:48 AM
basically soon there will only be a handful of mobile operating systems and the innovation will be lost

Frankly, most of the cell phone OSes suck, have sucked, and will continue to suck. They have engineers creating interfaces. So with the gazillion interfaces out there, there hasn't been much innovation up to this point.

That is why Apple products do so well: simplicity. I recently bought a t-mobile dash running windows mobile 6. WOW it is hard to do anything. It really does have some great features, but you can't find any of them. It is incredibly unintuitive. I feel sorry for non tech people and most mobile phones out there.

Windows Mobile could be a pretty great OS, if they hired two common sense people to create a more intuitive interface for it.

Rootman
Feb 12, 2008, 09:33 AM
I have a Sidekick. It was great a few years ago (I had the first B&W version, then upgraded to V2 when color came out), but it's a piece of crap, really.

JayLenochiniMac
Feb 12, 2008, 12:16 PM
I had the sidekick 2 and 3 before I got the iPhone. I was never able to get into the treo/blackberry thing so it was the sidekick that did it for me. However, it's now nothing compared to the iPhone (not to mention being a ghetto device to due to its popularilty with the low class) and its built quality has gone downhill (as anybody who's had the original Sidekick 2 and Sharp Sidekick 3 would know).

KittyToy
Feb 12, 2008, 12:53 PM
I have a Sidekick lx,their keyboard is great when your an avid texter, but the os sucks, not to mention the web browser, people complain the iphone on edge is slow, well on the sidekick it's slower and it don't even render full web pages.

Eric Lewis
Feb 12, 2008, 02:13 PM
this is funny

Apple + At&t iPhone

MS + TMOBILE

ahahaha

PlaceofDis
Feb 12, 2008, 02:19 PM
it just seems that Microsoft has money to spend and are buying whomever they can? with hopes that it works out in the end.

Unspeaked
Feb 12, 2008, 02:21 PM
this is funny

Apple + At&t iPhone

MS + TMOBILE

ahahaha

And what's your point?

Isn't it Apple + T-Mobile in Germany?

:rolleyes:

true777
Feb 12, 2008, 02:35 PM
Of course the founders of Danger were not only former Apple employees, but more importantly, one of them (Andy Rubin) now is the head of Google's Android platform -- basically the guy who first dreamt up the Sidekick, and later the Android mobile platform. And yes, he worked for Apple and General Magic in the 90's, and later started WebTV which was ironically sold to Micro$oft, too.

ChrisA
Feb 12, 2008, 03:57 PM
I agree 150%! Microsoft has missed the mark so many times on their own... it seems the only thing they can do is copy anymore. It's sad.

"anymore"? What was their first product? MS-DOS? They didn't even write that they bough it from Digital Reaserach. Nothing new here, MS as usual.

jwsmiths
Feb 12, 2008, 04:41 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I've never seen the appeal of something like the sidekick. Always just assumed it was a teenager thing.

deathshrub
Feb 12, 2008, 04:52 PM
Danger is not the only one making Sidkicks Sharp actually made a few and most notably Moto made one also.

Not quite.

Danger makes the OS that is on every sidekick/hiptop, not the actual device.

Sharp has traditionally manufactured the sidekick/hiptop, but motorola has manufactured one, dubbed the sidekick slide if I'm not mistaken.

This is pretty sad, Danger was a good company. I will absolutely be breaking my T-Mobile contract in March, selling my Sidekick 3 and pick up an iPhone.

brasscat
Feb 12, 2008, 05:48 PM
Microsoft realizes it might lose it's market share in the cellular space, so they're trying new things to help stave off additional losses. Competing with other phone manufacturers will probably do nothing but make their competitors looks twice at other OSes for their phones.

My guess is Android, after a year or two in the wild, will be a great option for manufacturers not wanting Windows Mobile on their devices.

I vote the innovations of Google and the open source community will be a dominant force of the future of cellular software, definitely not MS and their locked-in Windows Mobile platform.

Of course, Apple will be onto itself with its style of innovation as well as the iPhone continues to mature and the SDK is released to all those eager developers out there.

Rootman
Feb 12, 2008, 06:12 PM
Yeah, I just got a gmail account and will start weaning off the Sidekick tmail.

cwheatley
Feb 12, 2008, 06:23 PM
i guess i'm the only one here who likes the sidekick?

oh well.

deathshrub
Feb 12, 2008, 06:45 PM
i guess i'm the only one here who likes the sidekick?

oh well.

Mine is ok, I got it so I could use AIM while away from home, but I rarely go on anymore, so I think I will be getting rid of it.

zap2
Feb 12, 2008, 06:46 PM
(not to mention being a ghetto device to due to its popularilty with the low class)

:-0

No wonder they think apple users are elitists! I've seen some elitist stuff on the forums but you take the cake!

bloodycape
Feb 12, 2008, 07:18 PM
I have see at least 5 people with Sidekicks and iphone combo because a. at&t plan does not offer enough texting b. tmobile is cheaper for texting and c. the sidekick and a nice keyboard in their eyes.

gifford
Feb 12, 2008, 08:26 PM
and people wonder why I hate Microsoft
being in the business of idea generation, i have grown to loath leaches or anyone without a spark of imagination who pinches the work of others.
It's cheating, simple as.

msft scum

deathshrub
Feb 12, 2008, 10:16 PM
I had the sidekick 2 and 3 before I got the iPhone. I was never able to get into the treo/blackberry thing so it was the sidekick that did it for me. However, it's now nothing compared to the iPhone (not to mention being a ghetto device to due to its popularilty with the low class) and its built quality has gone downhill (as anybody who's had the original Sidekick 2 and Sharp Sidekick 3 would know).

If it's so "ghetto" and "low class" then why did you have one?

Oh, and ghetto = codeword for black.

Go back to 4chan, troll. Your kind isn't wanted here.

bloodycape
Feb 12, 2008, 10:46 PM
and people wonder why I hate Microsoft
being in the business of idea generation, i have grown to loath leaches or anyone without a spark of imagination who pinches the work of others.
It's cheating, simple as.

msft scum

Couldn't we say this pretty much about any company leaching or taking someone else's idea?

AceWilfong
Feb 12, 2008, 10:53 PM
Once again, Microsoft forges on behind.

JayLenochiniMac
Feb 13, 2008, 12:05 AM
No wonder they think apple users are elitists! I've seen some elitist stuff on the forums but you take the cake!

If it's so "ghetto" and "low class" then why did you have one?

I had one because I liked it and found it useful. Got rid of it only because someone gave me a free iPhone. So much for being an elitist.

It's an unfortunate reality that every week a student gets robbed of their sidekick at gunpoint at my wife's school.

Oh, and ghetto = cool in that neck of the wood.

Sayer
Feb 13, 2008, 12:44 AM
If you can't beat 'em, buy em out and strip away any IP that may have value and throw out the rest that was a threat to your own business model. Way to go Microsoft.

Acquisition of better, smaller, tech companies that don't suck and don't alienate their customers FTW!

shadowfax
Feb 13, 2008, 02:31 AM
So basically soon there will only be a handful of mobile operating systems and the innovation will be lost.

Here's hoping that Google and Apple will drive innovation in the cell phone market. It sure looks like they are. So far, it seems like we're seeing shakedown and consolidation. I think a lot of the "random" cell phone crap is going to die or get eaten up by larger developments like this. Then MS, etc. will realize you can't buy your way into a competition with Google and Apple, and they will have to actually try and work. Even though Windows mobile is powerful in the cell phone market, I bet it turns into an uphill battle in a year or two for them. Apple and Google have nowhere to go but up. Especially if Google puts in the money and builds a network on the 700 MHz band to escape the networks' crap.

Couldn't we say this pretty much about any company leaching or taking someone else's idea?

yeah, like Apple stealing widgets from konfabulator... Anyone remember that?

Doctor Q
Feb 13, 2008, 10:52 AM
yeah, like Apple stealing widgets from konfabulator... Anyone remember that?And Sherlock copying Watson.

Syrus28
Feb 13, 2008, 07:07 PM
Where is all this Microsoft hate coming from? Here's a reality check: EVERY company "borrows" from each other... Like for example... iPod's miraculously easy yet intuitive interface? Not made by Apple. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/08/16/BUGTG878AR1.DTL&type=printable) :eek:

Especially if Google puts in the money and builds a network on the 700 MHz band to escape the networks' crap.
I hope you don't think Google is doing this for "us". All it wants to do is expand its advertising revenue into the mobile business. That's why it persuaded The FCC to keep the spectrum open if the minimum bid was attained. In turn, Google probably bid the minimum for this reason, not really expecting to win.

Why would they want the open status? Again, not for "us". They do this so they can sidestep the telephone and cable companies efforts to make it difficult to access Google services, or even charge Google to deliver the services over their internet connection.

I can't believe Google would ever build a national network. They would have to establish retail stores, customer service, and cough up billions of dollars needed to run a network. None of this is really related to their core businesses, and would probably cause a distraction from their core business.

yeah, like Apple stealing widgets from konfabulator... Anyone remember that?
Lol. Yep. Ever heard of "gadgets" ?

shadowfax
Feb 13, 2008, 08:29 PM
hope you don't think Google is doing this for "us". All it wants to do is expand its advertising revenue into the mobile business. That's why it persuaded The FCC to keep the spectrum open if the minimum bid was attained. In turn, Google probably bid the minimum for this reason, not really expecting to win.

Why would they want the open status? Again, not for "us". They do this so they can sidestep the telephone and cable companies efforts to make it difficult to access Google services, or even charge Google to deliver the services over their internet connection.

I can't believe Google would ever build a national network. They would have to establish retail stores, customer service, and cough up billions of dollars needed to run a network. None of this is really related to their core businesses, and would probably cause a distraction from their core business.

I don't really see them doing it themselves, but they might spin off a company to do it.

Google isn't doing anything for anyone but themselves, but that doesn't mean they aren't innovative. A lot of big companies tend to rest on their laurels in their fields. US cell networks and ISPs are a good example of this--slow to modernize. Ostensibly competitive, but not really--competitive within a "cooperative" framework--or something. I don't know, but where is the innovation? Not there. All companies are greedy, but some benefit consumers a lot more than others, and Google and Apple are examples of companies that provide huge benefits for their consumers as a side effect of their own greed.

sachxn
Feb 14, 2008, 01:56 AM
It oes not matter what Microsoft does or what it acquires, the truth is that it cannot create anything innovative like Apple. Microsoft can just BUY and cannot CREATE any new product. Hey where are all those Greate engineers (who made (never made) Vista) gone.


Sachin (http://sql-plsql.blogspot.com)

SiliconAddict
Feb 14, 2008, 12:38 PM
Mmmm Win Mobo on a Sidekick makes me want to do unspeakable things to myself...... ;) :D

Seriously I love my Mogul with WM 6. I've been using WMWifiRouter (http://www.gezby.com/46/) to share my EVDO connection with friends when I'm out and about. Its still an early release but its crap like this that makes WM more powerful and more functional then the iPhone.

I welcome this. I would love to see the love child between Win Mobo + Origami's UI for a Sidekick.

It oes not matter what Microsoft does or what it acquires, the truth is that it cannot create anything innovative like Apple. Microsoft can just BUY and cannot CREATE any new product. Hey where are all those Greate engineers (who made (never made) Vista) gone.




And how many apps does Apple own that are from company acquisitions? How much open source software does Apple have in its OS and apps? Fanbois. Gotta love em....oh wait. No I don't.

Syrus28
Feb 14, 2008, 11:32 PM
It oes not matter what Microsoft does or what it acquires, the truth is that it cannot create anything innovative like Apple. Microsoft can just BUY and cannot CREATE any new product. Hey where are all those Greate engineers (who made (never made) Vista) gone.


Sachin (http://sql-plsql.blogspot.com)
Its late, so I'l respond.

Ever heard of a Xbox? A Zune? No, probably not because you are too far up Apple's ass to see anything anyone else does. Its like they pay you or something...

Lets count these so called innovative products of Apple:
1.) iPod (Interface not made by Apple)
2.) iPhone (can't send pic messages, no 3G)
3.) Mac OS X (locked down more than Windows)

Now Microsoft:
1.) Zune (song sharing, wireless sync, fm radio)
2.) Xbox 360 (XBL - more on-demand content than any cable provider, Halo, etc.)
3.) Windows Mobile (can send pic messages!!!)
4.) Office '08 (Ribbon Interface)
5.) Windows (Runs on home built computers, runs on laptops less than $1,000!!)

Oh, and FYI: Microsoft created the Xbox. They created the Zune. They created Windows Mobile. They created Vista.

YES, you've heard of Vista. It is considered a flop by lots of people on these forums, yet in 8 months has outsold the entire Mac OS X platform since 2001. So... what conclusions could they draw about Leopard [or Tiger, or Panther, or Jaguar, or Cheetah/Puma]

So don't go around preaching things you truly know nothing about.
To everyone else: Don't read too far into this. You have to speak these people's languages for them to understand. :D I don't really mean all of this, but moreso to prove a point. And also because its late.

lucky3killer
Feb 15, 2008, 08:33 AM
I'm SK user since 2004, SK2 and SK3, also I'm glad that my contract was expired after 1 year

I was very disappointed at Danger Inc now, even after MS bought it and would be switch to iPhone in next month or couple.

Eraserhead
Feb 17, 2008, 04:49 AM
Lets count these so called innovative products

First you've missed out iLife, which is also innovative. You are also whining about minor feature omissions on the Apple stuff, without seeing the bigger picture. The iPhone now has 50x more Google searches than any competitor and a higher web share than Windows Mobile. Even though Windows mobile has been out far longer. (source 1 (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/667f13de-da60-11dc-9bb9-0000779fd2ac.html), source 2 (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=106&qpmr=14&qpdt=1&qpct=0&sample=4))

The problem is that most of Microsoft's innovation occurred a long time ago. The Zune is at best a copy of the iPod, with a couple of minor, not particularly great features stuck on, why "squirt" a song, when you can just hand your friend your MP3 player to listen to it.

Windows is also innovative, but most of its innovation was in Windows 95, 98 bought minor improvements and XP brought stability, but other than that its innovation was 10-15 years ago.

Office has seen innovation in the past 10 years, but most of that has been more business centric features rather than consumer ones, Office 2007 is barely better than Office 1997 for consumers.

SharkySharky
Feb 17, 2008, 02:44 PM
I am so sick of the whole "Who ripped off who" and "who is more innovative" argument. Get over yourselves. It's not about who ripped off who, it's about who does things better. Let me make MY list of innovative/ripped off things


Apple
1- iPod (ripped off playing music portably from the Walkman)
2- iPhone (Touch interface is innovative, but ripped off the ability to place phone calls from Alexander Graham Bell)
3- Mac OS X.... nothing wrong here, and I can't say enough about my love for this OS. I can't even JOKE about things wrong with it... besides Stacks, but those are fixed

Microsoft
1- Zune (Ripped off MP3 player from iPod, ripped off FM transmitter from my car stereo, ripped off Sharing music from Napster)
2- Xbox (Ripped off Console Video Games from MANY companies like Nintendo, Atari, Sega, and Sony)
3- Vista (Do I really need to say it?, ripped off BSOD from Windows XP)



In case you didn't notice this was a joke the entire time, because I am so sick of this immature pointing of fingers. Get over it and use the computer you use for the reasons you enjoy using it. I am obviously a Mac fan, and have been since the day I was born because of my father. I honestly didn't know there was another OS until I went to a friends house to play a computer game and was confused when I saw Windows.

I am a Computer Science major and I have USED and PROGRAMMED on Windows machines so I am not ignorant either. Thank you all for wasting your life by arguing about Mac vs PC and who ripped off who.


Apple > PC

My opinion. Thank you.

tonyshucraft
Feb 17, 2008, 10:18 PM
That's the first time this has happened. :rolleyes:

AKA how windows got started....wasn't it?

I dunno, saw something about how Bill Gates warned them to get a patent, they didn't quick enough and well...windows.

edit: it was on an A&E biography show about it that we watched in school.

tonyshucraft
Feb 17, 2008, 11:16 PM
Its late, so I'l respond.

Ever heard of a Xbox? A Zune? No, probably not because you are too far up Apple's ass to see anything anyone else does. Its like they pay you or something...

Lets count these so called innovative products of Apple:
1.) iPod (Interface not made by Apple) - everybody should be chanting the three letters "DOS"
2.) iPhone (can't send pic messages, no 3G) - better messagingShould be soon, and it is more open than windows mobile. You don't see much copycats to any phone made by windows, I think I'd be honored if I were apple. Plus does Microsoft make any of those phones themselves?
3.) Mac OS X (locked down more than Windows) - I've seen more blue screens of death, error messages, freeze ups, ect. with windows in won month than I did in the six months I had my Mac(before I was in an accident.)

also Mac beats windows in:

Built in software: There are programs that are built in to OSX that would of costed me 1400 dollars to get for windows. Unless I use the built in, bogged down versions of them. Which mostly screw up things(I am visually impaired, check out the programs: Jaws, and Zoomtext, and compare to accessibility in OSX) Plus MIcrosoft only supports themselves with their OS. I don't see much for running unix/linux programs and another major OS on windows.

Now Microsoft:
1.) Zune (song sharing, wireless sync, fm radio) - And yet they are fairly useless. Wireless sync would be ok if it didn't take up the battery, sharing could be interesting but I don't feel like soul searching for another user. FM Raido is like wifi, it depends on where you are. Although with wifi, you can access internet radio. Also glad you didn't complain about the itunes store using a DRM that only works with the ipod. Don't b from a store with a good selection folks.(although I do givve them thumbs up on the points system)
2.) Xbox 360 (XBL - more on-demand content than any cable provider, Halo, etc.) - No problems with XBox. The HDD was one thing that really helped the original.
3.) Windows Mobile (can send pic messages!!!) So can my non windows mobile phone. If that's your big issue, then that is something sad.
4.) Office '08 (Ribbon Interface)- I have found that version of office to be less navigatable.
5.) Windows (Runs on home built computers, runs on laptops less than $1,000!!) -

Oh, and FYI: Microsoft created the Xbox. They created the Zune. They created Windows Mobile. They created Vista.

YES, you've heard of Vista. It is considered a flop by lots of people on these forums, yet in 8 months has outsold the entire Mac OS X platform since 2001. So... what conclusions could they draw about Leopard [or Tiger, or Panther, or Jaguar, or Cheetah/Puma] - I don't think Apple is worried just about OS sales but computer sales. Because they make computers. The main problem about Vista selling more than any version of OSX is that one company makes Macs, a lot make windows computers. So Microsoft has more support from other companies for their OS where as Apple supports themselves.

So don't go around preaching things you truly know nothing about.
To everyone else: Don't read too far into this. You have to speak these people's languages for them to understand. :D I don't really mean all of this, but moreso to prove a point. And also because its late.

Also look at the crosses into each others platforms, I'd say things that work for mac that have went into windows(ipod) have done better than things that Microsoft has done to reach Mac users.

spazattack674
Feb 18, 2008, 04:18 PM
Well, I was planning on dropping my T-Mobile contract and Sidekick II at the end of my contract in June, but this news seals the deal.

Syrus28
Feb 20, 2008, 07:31 PM
First you've missed out iLife, which is also innovative. You are also whining about minor feature omissions on the Apple stuff, without seeing the bigger picture. The iPhone now has 50x more Google searches than any competitor and a higher web share than Windows Mobile. Even though Windows mobile has been out far longer. (source 1 (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/667f13de-da60-11dc-9bb9-0000779fd2ac.html), source 2 (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=106&qpmr=14&qpdt=1&qpct=0&sample=4))
And by having 50x more Google searches than any competitor, it proves it is an innovative product? I think not. And whether you think they are "minor omissions", I still laugh when the iPhone can't cant send a picture/video message. Its all a matter of opinion. However, when we look at the big picture, as you say, Windows Mobile is selling more worldwide units than ever before. They shipped 14 million phones last year, expecting 20 million this year. Iphone is expecting 10 million total by the end of '08. It's at 4 million now. If both these predictions come true, the gap is widening.

The problem is that most of Microsoft's innovation occurred a long time ago. The Zune is at best a copy of the iPod, with a couple of minor, not particularly great features stuck on, why "squirt" a song, when you can just hand your friend your MP3 player to listen to it.
Why not go further and call anything that plays music a copy of the iPod? Lets look at these minor, not particularly great features. The Zune can wirelessly sync with a computer, send songs to other people, has a fm radio, and just became a gaming platform. I would take these "minor" features over iTunes any day.

Office has seen innovation in the past 10 years, but most of that has been more business centric features rather than consumer ones, Office 2007 is barely better than Office 1997 for consumers.
Well Office 2007 is selling faster than any Office version before it. So somebody likes it. And don't forget the ribbon interface, which did much to mainstream Office 2007 between the programs. That's innovative, considering what improvements happens between each version of iLife.

It seems like people don't understand the position Microsoft has in the industry. It simply can't create these all-in-one solutions like Apple because it would be seen as unfairly limiting the competition. Lets look at anything worthwhile Microsoft has included in Windows.

After IE7 came out, Opera sued (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=7332) Microsoft for bundling Internet Explorer in Windows.
Real sued (http://www.macworld.com/article/28689/2003/12/real.html) for including Windows Media Player.
Google sued (http://samat.org/weblog/20060504-google-sues-microsoft-over-default-search-engine-in-internet-explorer-7.html) for making MSN default search engine.
Google sued (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070610-google-launches-antitrust-complaint-against-vistas-desktop-search.html) Microsoft for including desktop search in Vista.

Now what happens when Apple includes Spotlight in Mac OS X. What happens when Google is the default browser on Opera, Safari, and Firefox? What happens when Apple includes iTunes? What happens when Apple includes Safari? NOTHING...


---Wow I sound like a Microsoft fanboy :eek:

Hackcomic.com
Feb 22, 2008, 04:16 AM
I have had a SK2 and now an SK3.

It's a great little device for texing and email. Easy to use, great to type on and cheap monthly rates.

I was all set to get an iphone but then compared prices.

for $59.99 a month I get 1,000 minutes, unlimited email, internet and UNLIMITED texts.

iphone/AT&T doesn't come close.

It will be interesting to see what MS does with this. It needs a massive upgrade the LX was thinner but that was about it.

AMoeini
Feb 24, 2008, 07:58 AM
I, too, am very disappointed. I used a sidekick 3 for a little over a year, then picked up the Sidekick LX, and I still use it today. Sidekicks are wonderful devices, they are so easy to use, potentially the most easy to type on device out there, anyone can up it up and use it, it has all the aspects teens like as well as all the necessary components business workers need. This phone was truly built for anyone. And it's not just the phone and it's OS. The plan? T-Mobile offers a special rate plan add-on called "Sidekick Unlimited" - for $19.99 per/month, you get Unlimited Texts, Unlimited Pics, Unlimited AOL, Unlimited Internet (a full EDGE web browser, email, and an in-device catalog to purchase apps, ringtones, backgrounds, games, etc.) There are quite incredible phones. If they put WM 6, I might just have to do something irrational, like..buy and iPhone :) No worries guys, I'm getting mine in a few weeks, and I'm so excited!

numlock
Feb 24, 2008, 08:08 AM
After IE7 came out, Opera sued (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=7332) Microsoft for bundling Internet Explorer in Windows.
Real sued (http://www.macworld.com/article/28689/2003/12/real.html) for including Windows Media Player.
Google sued (http://samat.org/weblog/20060504-google-sues-microsoft-over-default-search-engine-in-internet-explorer-7.html) for making MSN default search engine.
Google sued (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070610-google-launches-antitrust-complaint-against-vistas-desktop-search.html) Microsoft for including desktop search in Vista.

Now what happens when Apple includes Spotlight in Mac OS X. What happens when Google is the default browser on Opera, Safari, and Firefox? What happens when Apple includes iTunes? What happens when Apple includes Safari? NOTHING...


---Wow I sound like a Microsoft fanboy :eek:

thats an overly simplistic view even if one only reads the links you posted

ZiggyPastorius
Feb 24, 2008, 03:40 PM
I'm going to try to respond to this as best I can the way I understand things. I won't try to defend or shoot down either company, but just address these issues.

Its late, so I'l respond.

Ever heard of a Xbox? A Zune? No, probably not because you are too far up Apple's ass to see anything anyone else does. Its like they pay you or something...

Lets count these so called innovative products of Apple:
1.) iPod (Interface not made by Apple)
2.) iPhone (can't send pic messages, no 3G)
3.) Mac OS X (locked down more than Windows)

Now Microsoft:
1.) Zune (song sharing, wireless sync, fm radio)
2.) Xbox 360 (XBL - more on-demand content than any cable provider, Halo, etc.)
3.) Windows Mobile (can send pic messages!!!)
4.) Office '08 (Ribbon Interface)
5.) Windows (Runs on home built computers, runs on laptops less than $1,000!!)

Oh, and FYI: Microsoft created the Xbox. They created the Zune. They created Windows Mobile. They created Vista.

YES, you've heard of Vista. It is considered a flop by lots of people on these forums, yet in 8 months has outsold the entire Mac OS X platform since 2001. So... what conclusions could they draw about Leopard [or Tiger, or Panther, or Jaguar, or Cheetah/Puma]

So don't go around preaching things you truly know nothing about.
To everyone else: Don't read too far into this. You have to speak these people's languages for them to understand. :D I don't really mean all of this, but moreso to prove a point. And also because its late.

1. iPod. Original interface acquired by Apple going to another company to request help with the interface, and building on it later to make it the best interface on the market, in my opinion.
2. Okay. Apple is one option in an entire field of cell phones/smart phones. It has a lot of great features, some things more innovative than others. I'm not much of a cell-phone-understanding person, but I see these as minor issues, but understand where a problem would be for other people. Which is why I reiterate: Microsoft doesn't make their own phones, and there are plenty of choices besides the iPhone. Choices, choices, choices.
3. I fail to understand how the fact that it more closely propietary in terms of the hardware it runs on makes it more "locked down." OS X, because it's designed by the same company for the same hardware, has many advantages over windows, especially in the fact that it's open-source. It's also based on a better and more secure kernel, as well as being based on BSD unix.

1. The zune may have those things, but it also has inferior audio quality, compatability with many platforms (including I believe no compatability with Macintosh computers), comes with cheaper (worse) headphones, is offered for the same price for an inferior product by a company that makes probably hundreds of millions more than Apple (that is, if we're only comparing the Zune and the iPod, not the other mp3 players on the market), supports less formats, et cetera. Some of these may be more of an issue for others. Not to mention it's really ****ing ugly. For me, the iPod much better serves my needs, but I suppose the Zune can work for people if you need an FM Radio (personally, I won't listen to terrestrial radio anymore).
2. The Xbox 360, I can give you. The xbox, I will not. The Xbox was a ridiculously bad gaming platform, and was very unpractical. The Xbox360 also has many issues, but as I have no gamer knowledge, I won't try to say there's a better alternative. As for Halo, it was a game designed by Bungie, not Microsoft, for Macs, before being bought out by Microsoft and transferred to their platform. I won't argue with its popularity, though.
3. Okay?
4. It also costs like $600, and personally, I would prefer Pages or Keynote over Word or Powerpoint any day, though that's just me.
5. It's also inferior. We could argue history all day, but we'll stray away from that. XP was the only Windows Operating system that was not a piece of crap. Much like OS X is pretty much the only Mac OS that isn't a piece of crap. It's just that Mac OS X is less of a piece of crap than every good feature of every windows OS combined.

If your last comment truly stands true, I won't have to explain to you the fallacy of your comment on the less than $1000 computers.

I'm trying to be as small of an apple apologist as I can, but I feel there are some factual innacuracies in the points made. If I was wrong on anything, please let me know; this is all based on information as I've read it, so I'd like to be corrected where I'm wrong, thanks :)

Syrus28
Feb 24, 2008, 06:48 PM
1. The zune may have those things, but it also has inferior audio quality, compatability with many platforms (including I believe no compatability with Macintosh computers), comes with cheaper (worse) headphones, is offered for the same price for an inferior product by a company that makes probably hundreds of millions more than Apple (that is, if we're only comparing the Zune and the iPod, not the other mp3 players on the market), supports less formats, et cetera. Some of these may be more of an issue for others. Not to mention it's really ****ing ugly. For me, the iPod much better serves my needs, but I suppose the Zune can work for people if you need an FM Radio (personally, I won't listen to terrestrial radio anymore).
Whoa whoa whoa...
1.)The Zune (80) is regarded as having BETTER audio quality than the iPod Classic.
2.) The 80GB Zune also comes with premium ($40 on their own) earphones, which are much better than the iPod's cheap-o earphones.
3.) Have you seen the new zunes? They aren't ugly.
4.) The flash zunes are $20 cheaper than their nano counterparts.
5.) Im pretty sure the Zune covers most of the formats the iPod does, although im not sure.

Now, the Zunes do not support Macs, but really with all the haters they have there, I understand why. I'd say the majority of Mac users are "anti-Microsoft" for whatever reason. The Zune really wouldn't tailor to them, don't you think?

I just don't exactly see what the iPod is offering over the Zune at this point. To go from a Zune to an iPod can be seen as downgrading. :D

2. The Xbox 360, I can give you. The xbox, I will not. The Xbox was a ridiculously bad gaming platform, and was very unpractical. The Xbox360 also has many issues, but as I have no gamer knowledge, I won't try to say there's a better alternative. As for Halo, it was a game designed by Bungie, not Microsoft, for Macs, before being bought out by Microsoft and transferred to their platform. I won't argue with its popularity, though.
First of all, the the Xbox was a [not financial :cool:] success. It was a crucial first step which lead to the leading seller of next-gen consoles, the Xbox 360. It did what it needed to do. What was "unpractical" about it? Also, Bungie [until a couple months ago] was OWNED by Microsoft, which makes it theirs. Microsoft still owns Halo. Do you think Halo would have been a success on the Mac? No. Also, the Keynote version of Halo and what was shown on the Xbox were years apart in terms of features.

4. It also costs like $600, and personally, I would prefer Pages or Keynote over Word or Powerpoint any day, though that's just me.
5. It's also inferior. We could argue history all day, but we'll stray away from that. XP was the only Windows Operating system that was not a piece of crap. Much like OS X is pretty much the only Mac OS that isn't a piece of crap. It's just that Mac OS X is less of a piece of crap than every good feature of every windows OS combined.
What about Win 95? It was better than its Mac counterpart therefore making it "not crap". But we could go on about this, its all subjective.

If your last comment truly stands true, I won't have to explain to you the fallacy of your comment on the less than $1000 computers.
Yes, I know... The Mac Mini... Which is rumored to be discontinued.

I'm trying to be as small of an apple apologist as I can, but I feel there are some factual innacuracies in the points made. If I was wrong on anything, please let me know; this is all based on information as I've read it, so I'd like to be corrected where I'm wrong, thanks :)
No problem. I like correcting people. :cool:

Also, don't you see a bit of a pattern here? Microsoft comes out with a product in a market, where they usually just provide the software (DirectX, PlayForSure/WMP), combining the hardware and software (like apple) and sells moderately well. It usually is kinda clunky and ugly but does what supposed to do well. Next iteration, it comes out looking mighty spiffy and upgrading the previous gens features and sells even better with lots of people considering it to be better than the competition. Is Microsoft learning? I think so.:eek:

I think Microsoft will apply this to the phone market pretty soon. Maybe even a computer of their own? (gasp!!)

diamond.g
Feb 25, 2008, 09:21 AM
3. I fail to understand how the fact that it more closely propietary in terms of the hardware it runs on makes it more "locked down." OS X, because it's designed by the same company for the same hardware, has many advantages over windows, especially in the fact that it's open-source. It's also based on a better and more secure kernel, as well as being based on BSD unix.

OS X isn't Open Source. It is based on Open Source software but it isn't Open Source itself. The Hackintosh argument prove that pretty well.

kaenai
Mar 2, 2008, 04:00 PM
I had one because I liked it and found it useful. Got rid of it only because someone gave me a free iPhone. So much for being an elitist.

It's an unfortunate reality that every week a student gets robbed of their sidekick at gunpoint at my wife's school.

Oh, and ghetto = cool in that neck of the wood.
Normally I'd say something like "I hate to harp on an old subject", but someone needs to educate you. No, "ghetto" doesn't "equal cool", nor does it "equal cool" for you to use words and slang that you clearly do not have the sociological capacity to comprehend.

I happen to hail from (was born and raised in) "that neck of the wood", and frankly, I cringe whenever I hear that word uttered by someone who doesn't understand it's current meaning. I suppose there's no such thing as a lexicon for slang, since such things are usually written by people that just plain don't get it, therefore let this definition serve you:
Ghetto, adj, Pieced together or put together from the tools/items on hand to serve a purpose that was originally unintended.
The term was based on the premise that people in poor neighborhoods don't always own or have access to the latest or top of the line products, and will put together their own items to serve the same purpose. But you've never done that before, right? And funny, I don't see how the Sidekick (any version) fits into that description. It serves every purpose it was intended to. Interestingly enough, a 'hacked' iPod touch/iPhone is, by description and definition, GHETTO.

btw
Elitism, n, the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery (e.g., elitism in choosing new members [or] your poor attitude)

Perhaps you should go down to your wife's school and take a few courses yourself.