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arn
Apr 29, 2002, 05:59 AM
The 17" CRT iMac is here...

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/

A 17" version of the iMac had been discussed for years... but recent rumors predicted (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/04/20020417212858.shtml) this CRT model.

TiMacLover
Apr 29, 2002, 06:04 AM
Don't I get ne recondition for emailing you about the powerbooks, and emacs? Also its not a iMac a eMac not a internet machine a education machine :)

Id like a little mention of me on the front page for my submission this was the first place I cam after the apple store came back online which was 2 mins after it did so you guys knew first, not that it went up first but hey. Thanks

arn
Apr 29, 2002, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by TiMacLover
Don't I get ne recondition for emailing you about the powerbooks, and emacs?

heh... we got like 50 submissions of it... but indeed... you were the first... hats off. (page updated)

arn

irmongoose
Apr 29, 2002, 06:11 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

i am totally freaked out. that thing is.... awesome? weird? i dunno. i love it!


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!!!


how much is it!?




aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.


ok sorry for the over-reaction.




irmongoose

iGav
Apr 29, 2002, 06:16 AM
Students and education only......

I might enrole in that evening class now!!!

Actually I don't really have any use for this machine, but 1000's will have!! It really is abit of a master stroke by Apple.....

Just need to get the iBook onto a G4 now!!! :D

Ifeelbloated
Apr 29, 2002, 06:17 AM
I just checked out the Apple site and saw it. It looks pretty neat. But I wonder how many they're going to sell because most schools who want macs in their classrooms already bought the old G3 CRT iMacs. I doubt they will pony-up to upgrade so fast. Schools are notorious for dragging feet to upgrade and when they do, the technology is old already. Oh well, I commend Apple in their efforts to secure a beachhead in the education market. Now Steve, about the G5....

rugby
Apr 29, 2002, 06:39 AM
Actually, this is perfect timing with a perfect product. Schools need to plan for next year's budget and Apple (finally!) understands that we need the product now! Last time they introduced DV iMacs they made them available in October so we couldn't get any. Now, I'm buying about 120 of them to replace 4 labs of 5x00 series for our 4 elementary schools.

Apple will sell a ton of them.

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2002, 06:43 AM
so rugby, will you be going with the emacs?

if so, that's a great start!

Geert
Apr 29, 2002, 06:44 AM
way to go Apple!
Nice strategy, listening to their buyers/feedback.
I hope they keep up the good work.
And listen to all feedback.

Beej
Apr 29, 2002, 06:45 AM
Dude. Calm down.

:D :D :D

irmongoose
Apr 29, 2002, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Beej
Dude. Calm down.

:D :D :D


thanks. im calm now that ive talked about this to EVERY SINGLE person i could think of.... yeah im calm.


:D :D :D



irmongoose

RitchieDeMan
Apr 29, 2002, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by irmongoose

how much is it!?


Here in the Uk they are 729.00 excluding vat. Only available to students and education market. Not a bad price for a G4 though. :)

DavidOS
Apr 29, 2002, 07:23 AM
That is a nice looking mac. It's powerful enough to appeal to college students too!

1,249.00 with 128 mb sdram, 40 gig, 700 mhz.

and the big one . . .

1,516 with 512 and the same plus a cool stand

1,805 with the stand and 1 GIG ram !!!!!!

You could also get the flat pannel with

1gig ram, 700 mhz, 40 gig for 2,082.00 (with the education discount)

Too bad that the emac is only avalible for students! Many college students, etc, won't ever consider the emac because they don't know about the education program. THey won't know they CAN have it because they won't see it at compUSA. hmmmmm . . . I am not going to college for another year yet, but if I was going tommorow, that emac would be mighty tasty looking.

I like the flat pannel, but would it be worth the extra 300 bucks? I am not sure.

synp
Apr 29, 2002, 07:40 AM
So now there's a cheap emac with 1280*960 resolution, while those who payed more for the new imac get only 1024*768.

For those of us who are no longer students, the only way to get 1280*something is to buy an expensive tower.

Too bad. I think Apple should address this market. There are a lot of people out there who are either into digital photography or like to read a lot of text on their web browser who want the extra resolution but don't need all the expandability and large case.

G4scott
Apr 29, 2002, 07:42 AM
I like it. Its classy, but doesn't scream "KEY LIME", so it can peacefully sit in a classroom. It's also very affordable. Maybe I can convince my school that they need these instead of stupid dell pee-cee's...

bobky
Apr 29, 2002, 07:55 AM
Looks great, well done apple!!!!!!!
:D
just one point, are the speakers like that of the quicksliver? if so easily poked by grubby handed kids.

chmorley
Apr 29, 2002, 08:16 AM
700 MHz G4 w/ 100 MHz system bus. Interesting that the processor is slower than the top of the line iMac. Makes sense.

Looks very cool.

Chris

irmongoose
Apr 29, 2002, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by DavidOS
Too bad that the emac is only avalible for students! Many college students, etc, won't ever consider the emac because they don't know about the education program. THey won't know they CAN have it because they won't see it at compUSA. hmmmmm . . . I am not going to college for another year yet, but if I was going tommorow, that emac would be mighty tasty looking.



You've used this phrase before... i remember. It confused me the first time.. and its confusing me again.

and YEAH the flat-panel is definetely worth it. CRT is ***** compared to LCD. You gotta have it. If you can afford the extra 300, get the iMac.



irmongoose

sparkleytone
Apr 29, 2002, 08:24 AM
ahh i can see it now. all the students on their eMacs, the teacher using the top of the line iMac with SuperDrive, and the network admin type person having a Dual GHZ G4 running OS X server. excuse me...brb.

mithras
Apr 29, 2002, 08:31 AM
Here's an interesting bit from the previous discussion (http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=3964)

Macette
macrumors newbie

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11
CRT?

If Apple release new iMacs with CRTs I will eat my shoe. It just ain't their style. You don't see them running back to floppy drives, do ya?


We're waiting for the iMovie Theater of that one!

Beej
Apr 29, 2002, 08:36 AM
Damn Melbournians! ;)

Backtothemac
Apr 29, 2002, 08:41 AM
Wait a minute.
The main page says they are 999 and 1199, but the education store says 1249, and 1516. That is a huge difference. Which is it Arn? Who is right?

djniche
Apr 29, 2002, 08:41 AM
Flat screen! Awesome.... I remember when I was in school we had the old macs and it was the first computer I used. Way before any wintel machine. :D
Leaves a mark with you using a Mac .. can only imagine having this new emac 17" Mac OS X.! Excellent...

could it be that mac is moving to the 17" flat screen as a starting size and scratching the 15"?
I have seen stores like compusa having discounts on the flat 15"

j763
Apr 29, 2002, 08:47 AM
Hey guys,

I've got a G3 500MHz white iBook -- is the speed difference noticable in the eMac (velocity engine etc.?). I'm low on cash and had my eye on the new iMac but it is just too expensive for me at the moment.

Any advice as to what to do?

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2002, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Wait a minute.
The main page says they are 999 and 1199, but the education store says 1249, and 1516. That is a huge difference. Which is it Arn? Who is right?

the pricing is different for students and if you are buying for a school

the lower price goes for the latter. with the students paying the higher prices... though, the 999 version is not the exact same as the lowest offered 1249 version that you are seeing for students... it is missing a few things (cdrom rather than combo, and a few others i believe)

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by djniche
could it be that mac is moving to the 17" flat screen as a starting size and scratching the 15"?
I have seen stores like compusa having discounts on the flat 15"

along those lines... with the new power books, there is a deal being offered if you get the apple displays and the dvi-adc connector.... however, this deal is only for the 17, 22, and 23.... which seems to me to be supporting some sort of phasing out of the 15... perhaps. just an interesting additional note.

blogo
Apr 29, 2002, 08:55 AM
I think that machine is first ugly mac in years, they should have released it 29 days ago

Macette
Apr 29, 2002, 09:02 AM
Oh my god. Now I have to eat my shoe. I hate that.

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Macette
Oh my god. Now I have to eat my shoe. I hate that. Technically, you don't have to eat your shoe. You said that they wouldn't release a "17in CRT iMac". This is cleary a 17in CRT eMac. Any lawyer will help you weasel ... er, out of this situation.

But if you have a nice pair of shoes made out of hemp ... errr, nevermind.

ibjoshua
Apr 29, 2002, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by ftaok
Technically, you don't have to eat your shoe. You said that they wouldn't release a "17in CRT iMac". This is cleary a 17in CRT eMac. Any lawyer will help you weasel ... er, out of this situation.

But if you have a nice pair of shoes made out of hemp ... errr, nevermind.

i'll have to second that. it ain't an iMac. it's not for the consumer market but is a rare product from apple - an afordable machine for a cash-strapped market. i.e. education.

off topic - seems to be a few melbourne folk here. me too

oh and for what it's worth i think it's cooler looking than the new iMac
the new iMac is so awkward looking

Mr. Anderson
Apr 29, 2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by i_b_joshua
it's not for the consumer market but is a rare product from apple - an afordable machine for a cash-strapped market. i.e. education.


This is huge for the schools. The bigger screen, faster processor, it all makes sense if they want to move everything over to OSX they need to have a faster, cheaper machine than the LCD imac. Very cool, even if it is the ugly step child. Functionality works here more than style.:D

nero007
Apr 29, 2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by bobky
Looks great, well done apple!!!!!!!
:D
just one point, are the speakers like that of the quicksliver? if so easily poked by grubby handed kids.

I noticed that too. Might be something that Apple has to address with future revisions of the eMac.

imamacguy17
Apr 29, 2002, 09:56 AM
now that the emac has arrived what does this mean fo the imac? not much at the moment. schools will now buy emacs instead of imacs. consumers cant get their hands on them and students will fork over the additional 3 or 4 hundred dollars to get the flatpanel combodrive imac over the emac.but will it compete with the crt imac again no. more for the buck to get the low end emac than to get the high end crt imac. Apple needs to drop prices and raise tech specs for the current line give it a 600 or 700 mhz G3 at least 128 megs of ram and prices for crt imac should be 599 (indigo cdrom) 699 (graphite cdr) 799 (graphite or snow dvd) that would beat anything dell has to offer at 599 even at 799 and it would definately increase Apples market share because people will continue to snap these machines up.

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 10:02 AM
Holy ****ing ****! :eek:

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet. :D

This makes being college faculty worthwhile. :D

IndyGopher
Apr 29, 2002, 10:49 AM
Thread started at 6:59am.. and at 8:40am we got our first crybaby. Unbelievable.

voicegy
Apr 29, 2002, 11:01 AM
The education market (of which I am a part of as I've stated before) has been skittish towards the flat panel iMacs for two reasons:

Cost (well over $1,000.00 for low end)

Perceived to be Easily Damaged

(Personally, I think they're worth it and they're built well enough to take some abuse, but, still,....)

What do we need, Apple? We need a machine with a decent size screen, G4 power and within a thousand bucks!

...and they Listened. :p


I am VERY happy with this new addition and LOVE starting out a Monday with such fun news!

(and bless their hearts, they're keeping G3 iMacs around as well, for an even less expensive entry point)

We Be Spendin' Some Money!

cgmpowers
Apr 29, 2002, 11:12 AM
I have a love-hate relationship with the new eMac.

First of all, the hate part. The name, eMac. The first thing I think of is eMachine (which any PC user would tell you is crap, its the crappiest of crap PCs). I helped my brother and my best friend buy eMachines and both were crap. eMachines are the joke of the computing world.. Someones going to think the eMac is an eMachine Mac clone...ugh.. Anyway just my 'hate' issue with the name..

I love the 17". I am though relieved the thing doesn't have a Superdrive in it, as I sit behind my G4 iMac 800 FlatPanel, writing you this message. I have had almost every version of the iMac and if it had a Superdrive, might have bought the eMac. Anyway, just my thoughts...

On to a third aspect, questions...

With the advent of the 17" iMac (okay, I'll try to call it eMac later)...how far is the flat planel away from becoming larger?? I'd hope Apple at least lets my machine get to be 1 year old before releasing a 17" flat panel...

Christopher

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 11:25 AM
Interesting... take a look at the following eMac pictures and compare:

http://a1632.g.akamai.net/7/1632/51/dbd2826d6e39af/www.apple.com/education/emac/images/specstop04302002.jpg

No speaker shields, shiny metal Apple logo

http://a1744.g.akamai.net/7/1744/51/80ad95c4d7e941/www.apple.com/education/emac/images/software_top04302002.jpg

Speaker shields, white/snow Apple logo

Weird...

Mr. Anderson
Apr 29, 2002, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Hemingray
Interesting... take a look at the following eMac pictures and compare:

http://a1632.g.akamai.net/7/1632/51/dbd2826d6e39af/www.apple.com/education/emac/images/specstop04302002.jpg

No speaker shields, shiny metal Apple logo

http://a1744.g.akamai.net/7/1744/51/80ad95c4d7e941/www.apple.com/education/emac/images/software_top04302002.jpg

Speaker shields, white/snow Apple logo

Weird...

where did these come from? Are they the same machine?

On the first one, it has an interesting rear end, not what I'd have expected. Looks good actually.

mymemory
Apr 29, 2002, 11:49 AM
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 11:50 AM
First picture is with the shiny Apple logo and no speaker shield came from this page:

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/specs.html

Second picture with speaker shields and white/snow Apple logo cam from this page:

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/software.html

voicegy
Apr 29, 2002, 12:14 PM
I thought the new iMac was ugly at first...I mean, Lump, Stick, Rectangle CAN WE TALK? Ugh!!

But I got used to it.

So this eMac ain't a work of art. It's simple and unassuming...that's good enough for me, considering the targeted audience.

By the way, here's some interesting info regarding this particular machine:

pricing for education (school sites) starts at $999.00. This price is not available for PERSONAL educator purchase, where prices start at the mid range level for $1,249.00

the power button and audio jacks, located on the front of the original iMac, have been moved to the side connector bay.

a Mini-VGA output port is available, requiring an optional VGA adapter.

the back of the unit sports a circular, spiral design.

to help schools manage inventory, the serial number and Ethernet ID are inside the optical drive door.

an optional Tilt and Swivel stand lifts the eMac 3 inches off the desktop and supports 20 degrees of pivot.

although touted as a 17-inch CRT, the actual diagonal viewable area is 16-inches.

the 1280x960 maximum resolution provides for nearly 50 percent more viewing area than the iMac's 1024x768.

the eMac is slated to ship in "late May"

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!

I have to disagree. It's not the prettiest, but it serves its purpose! If educators were concerned about aesthetics, do you honestly think they'd fill rooms full of beige peecees? I'd rather look at an eMac, thanks.

iGav
Apr 29, 2002, 12:25 PM
I personally don't think it's ugly, it reminds me of one of the machines in 2010, although this is off the top of my head, will check the DVD later.....

It's very minimal looking, and certainly better now that the front is completely flat.......

Shame it's white, snow.... :D
Eww.......

It's still a blinding move by Apple though!!!

GeeYouEye
Apr 29, 2002, 12:34 PM
My GOD, you people like to complain. Don't you know something good when you see it?

Anyway, give it a second look. Remember, we were all shocked and appalled when they released the original iMac (as well as the new one, oh yeah, and the first iBook)at how completely ugly it was.

MacAztec
Apr 29, 2002, 12:47 PM
I LOVE IT SO MUCH!

1249 for all that! Holy GOD! THAT MUST BE THE BEST GAMING MACHINE EVER!

clonenode
Apr 29, 2002, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by j763
Hey guys,

I've got a G3 500MHz white iBook -- is the speed difference noticable in the eMac (velocity engine etc.?). I'm low on cash and had my eye on the new iMac but it is just too expensive for me at the moment.

Any advice as to what to do?

No matter what, 700 is faster than 500. PLUS the G4/G3 difference. But unless you are a student, none of this should matter. If you like the iBook, stick with it. A faster version is probably on the way soon.

CHess
Apr 29, 2002, 12:53 PM
I got up this morning and walked past the morning paper, catching a glimpse of this thing out of the corner of my eye. I thought, pshhh... a PC manufacturer ripping off the iMac form design... then I took a closer look... A new Mac???

Got to admit that it took a while for the design to grow on me. Same was true with the LCD iMac, but now I'm really starting to like it, particularly on the optional stand.

So, one thing I noticed is the lack of vents on the top. The only thing that looks like a vent is the ring on the back (which looks like it should start spinning like a big turbo-fan engine when you turn the computer on). Does anyone know about the internal fan situation? Just curious.

With the G4 and the GeForce 2 video and larger display area, do you think this will eat into LCD iMac sales at all?

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by CHess
With the G4 and the GeForce 2 video and larger display area, do you think this will eat into LCD iMac sales at all?

It can't eat into LCD iMac sales TOO much, just by virtue of the computer not being available to the general public. (You have to sign in to the K-12/Higher Education section of the Apple Store just to order it.)

OSeXy!
Apr 29, 2002, 01:22 PM
Ives' stuff always seems to look better in person. I'm waiting to see one before I judge. (From the photos I think the stand helps its looks).

Strange resolution, 1280x960 - true 4:3, just like 640x480, scaled up. Normally monitors go for 1280x1024 or 5:4 at this res. Wonder why this is?

lem0nayde
Apr 29, 2002, 01:23 PM
I'd like to get back to a previous post that someone made. What is up with the two different version of the eMac posted on Apple's site?

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/specs.html

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/learning.html

This is very strange, and sloppy of Apple. I don't see the capped-speaker version anywhere on the site, nor an explanation of it. It sounds as though some of the education people on the forum would prefer the capped-speakers to prevent damage....I wonder if Apple is offering clip on speaker grills?

Also of note - when you buy the eMacs as in Institution, you have your choice of Mac OS9 or X.

I don't mind the way the machine looks - it is very appropriate for the classroom. I kind of like the cute, squareness of it from the front.

What I do hate though is the font that Apple is using on their website. It seems very strange that they would not use their standard (and beautiful) Apple Garamond. It's bad and confusing branding.

Thats what I think.

Joe

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by OSeXy!
Ives' stuff always seems to look better in person. I'm waiting to see one before I judge. (From the photos I think the stand helps its looks).

Strange resolution, 1280x960 - true 4:3, just like 640x480, scaled up. Normally monitors go for 1280x1024 or 5:4 at this res. Wonder why this is? I would guess that at 1280x1024, the refresh rate would be too low and would cause massive seizure attacks among the 2nd grade population.

As it is, the 1280x960 resolution is at 80hz.

Gatorman
Apr 29, 2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by CHess

With the G4 and the GeForce 2 video and larger display area, do you think this will eat into LCD iMac sales at all?

I highly doubt it. It was designed specifically for education. Only a handful of consumers, mainly students, will be able to get their hands on one of these. It's not really oriented to be a gaming machine or a computer for homes, though with the hardware it has, it could easily do both.

I think this is an attempt for Apple (which this may be an obvious statement) to regain its share in the education industry, as it has been decreasing in recent years. And it's a darn good one at that!

How bout that neat Airport Card slot above the CD drive? I like that! :D

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by lem0nayde
Also of note - when you buy the eMacs as in Institution, you have your choice of Mac OS9 or X.


from what i could tell, you get both, and i guess that by selecting the one or the other, you are choosing which is the default when you get the computer. seems a bit weird, but i could see some people not wanting to deal with having their comp come starting with x default if they're still hung up in 9.

i just took a look at the emac tech specs. it has the configuration numbers and they say "mac os x startup" and "mac os 9 startup" and have the numbers for the 2 models under each. and then with system software it says 10.1 and 9.2 take a look...

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/specs.html

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2002, 01:38 PM
i definitely thing it looks good.

but then again, the lcd imac blew me away... the first time i saw it was via a slow dial up on a pc (in africa of all places) and the little animated gif of the monitor moving just showed up as a ghosted image with the movement seeming like a trail of some sort...

all in all, seems like it'll be good. the 2 different versions look interesting though... the speaker caps and no speaker caps that is...

Macmaniac
Apr 29, 2002, 01:42 PM
I'm so glad I'm a student! Maybe our High School will get them!

Gus
Apr 29, 2002, 01:43 PM
From the excite news article on the new eMac:

A DVD drive is available on the more expensive eMac.

Apple has seen its share of new sales in the education market decline in recent years, according to the research firm IDC.

In the fourth quarter, Apple's share fell 20 percent to 14.7 percent. Dell Computer Corp., meanwhile, saw its share increase from 36.8 percent in the third quarter to 39 percent in the fourth.

Also Monday, Apple unveiled a new line of Titanium PowerBook laptops, with faster processors, a new high-resolution display and built-in Gigabit networking capabilities.

*The top-of-the-line Titanium, with an 800 GHz processor, is priced at $3,199. A 667-MHz version runs $2,499. *

Wow! Apple really did make a leap forward! LOL:D

Gus

Buggy
Apr 29, 2002, 02:05 PM
Well I thought they would never make a 17" crt. I even posted often on how this wouldn't happen.

Guess I have to eat my words. With one cavet. I said that they wouldn't do it because it wouldn't have a good form factor. And I may still be right on that, It looks bulky and a bit ugly. More like a PC manufacturer using the new snow look of apple.

But that said, education does not care about how a computer looks. They want functionality and this machine has it.

G4, small footprint, more affordable than the LCD. Lots of input and output jacks.

BTW THANKYOU APPLE for putting the mike jack back. I had to shell out money for an iMic becuase the mike jack has been missing for the last couple of years.

All and all. I think this was a good move at a good time for a good market segment. ....even though I said it wouldn't happen :)

iSmell
Apr 29, 2002, 02:24 PM
So, do we really think these things are going to ship in late may?
I think I'm going to get one, but I have a few questions:

Is 10.2 going to come out before they ship? Could that be what they're waiting for to ship them?

Does anybody know if the RAM is user upgradable? I hate paying so much for Apple ram.

If the RAM is upgradable, would it be the same RAM as in an iceBook?

Does anybody want to buy an iceBook? Practically new! ;)

This thing may be a little ugly, but it just makes sense to me. And does anybody else out there like CRTs better than LCDs sometimes? Especially for movies, games, photoshop... pretty much anything but typing and web browsing?

Yay college. :D

G4scott
Apr 29, 2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by mithras
Here's an interesting bit from the previous discussion (http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=3964)


We're waiting for the iMovie Theater of that one!

You do know that this is not an iMac, it's an eMac...

evanmarx
Apr 29, 2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by CHess


So, one thing I noticed is the lack of vents on the top. The only thing that looks like a vent is the ring on the back (which looks like it should start spinning like a big turbo-fan engine when you turn the computer on). Does anyone know about the internal fan situation? Just curious.


hey mate, that eMac comes with an LCD screen, not an overheating CRT ... so if they could do the original imac without fan, they shure will with this baby too ...:D

IndyGopher
Apr 29, 2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by evanmarx


hey mate, that eMac comes with an LCD screen, not an overheating CRT ... so if they could do the original imac without fan, they shure will with this baby too ...:D

Umm.. no. Both sentences in there are wrong in one way or another... It has a CRT, not an LCD. And second, the original iMac did indeed have a fan.

me hate windows
Apr 29, 2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
yup
where's handle? How are you supposed to carry it around easy? Don't you think that those speakers would be poked and busted on the first day? They should have put more thought into it. It is one of the ugliest computers that I have seen.:(

But the 999 price tag is sweet:) The first G4 machine under $1000. If the G4 is now used for education, and almost all of their computers, the G5 has to come out at MWNY 2002.

dongmin
Apr 29, 2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Buggy
I said that they wouldn't do it because it wouldn't have a good form factor. And I may still be right on that, It looks bulky and a bit ugly. More like a PC manufacturer using the new snow look of apple.

As far as the form factor goes, it's pretty much the same, although the shape has changed somewhat. The eMac is 0.8 inch taller and 0.8 inch wider, to accomodate the bigger screen size, but the depth stays the same.

I would argue the new 'look' of the eMac has more to do with making it stylistically consistent with Apple's new computers, which have much more of a minimalist look than the earlier iMacs. The geometry of the eMac is simpler and more orthogonal than the CRT iMacs.

mymemory
Apr 29, 2002, 04:12 PM
For sure no one is gonna steal that thing if that was the reason of the desing :D

blackpeter
Apr 29, 2002, 07:19 PM
It's not very pretty, but at least now we know what Apple did with all those unused Studio Displays laying around...

gopher
Apr 29, 2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Hemingray
Interesting... take a look at the following eMac pictures and compare:

http://a1632.g.akamai.net/7/1632/51/dbd2826d6e39af/www.apple.com/education/emac/images/specstop04302002.jpg

No speaker shields, shiny metal Apple logo

http://a1744.g.akamai.net/7/1744/51/80ad95c4d7e941/www.apple.com/education/emac/images/software_top04302002.jpg

Speaker shields, white/snow Apple logo

Weird...

The latter one reminds me of an.....

Etcher Sketch!

eirik
Apr 29, 2002, 08:21 PM
Before I rant, you might be interested to know where I was when I learned the news of the eMac and updated Powerbook. I was at CompUSA to get assistance with upgrading my WinDOZE2K machine (new hard drive). I was actively fantasizing in the Apple Store there playing with Internet Explorer on a PowerMac with a 17" (?) flat screen display. Ran up Macrumors and there were all these listings of eMac and updated Powerbooks. Lots of iMac boxes stacked around the store, BTW.

Well now, so we have a 17" CRT iMac, christened the eMac. Why?

First, however, the fact that this is only available via the education store is a very important point. I didn't see it on the regular Apple store so posts to the effect otherwise puzzle me. maybe I skimmed through them to quickly. If it is/will be available to the general market, then I would think that it would induce product line dissonance.

So, why did Apple do this? Did Apple determine via a statistically significant quantitative market research methodology to identify this demand? Based on past experience with Apple, NEVER make that assumption!

Speculating:
* education administrators much prefer all-in-one offerings
- external monitors represent too much headache??
* iMac's presumed too vulnerable (someone else posted this)
* new iMac too luxurious (perception matters to decision-makers)
* want more display real estate than new or old iMac but don't want to go with low-end PowerMacs (why?, how much are low-end PowerMacs to the education market?)
* Apple wants to demonstrate special committment to education market
* eMac may be from a left-over alternative iMac product that was canned when the LCD iMac won an internal design selection process over a 17" CRT iMac
* outsourced manufacturing of eMac and other units has become so extensive that Apple doesn't suffer from diminished margins or increased costs due to multiple product lines as much as it would if manufactured in-house

Okay, you probably gather that I'm not excited about the eMac. At 35, I'll never be a student again, he says while knocking on wood. More so however, from a marketing standpoint, I simply question this. In trying to understand though, I listed the points above. Maybe you all can help me understand the marketing benefits to this new product line (albeit it is extremely similar to the iMac so operationally it shouldn't be a terrible burden).

Well, I've got two other major points to make so I'll start another two posts.

Eirik

benjaminpg
Apr 29, 2002, 08:40 PM
About the different speakers and/or speaker caps. I have heard complaints from people at universities about the quicksilver G4 speakers for an educational setting. If apple did listen to educators this could have been a complaint/request about speakers. In the quicksilvers and pro speakers, it is very easy to jam something in the speaker, a major problem for a computer lab setting. It seems possible that apple would include speaker caps, however it seems these could be removed quite easily and also be very tacky, not to mention possible decreasing sound quality.

eirik
Apr 29, 2002, 09:12 PM
Some readers will recognize the iBrick from my previous posts sometime ago.

This is where I think there is a major gap in Apple's overall product line.

Product__________________Price________________Arch_________________Target_Market
????_______________________$499_______________xt mon_______________converts, lw-end consumers, nth PC
old iMac_________________$799_______________all-in-1_____________mid-low end consumers, nth PC
old iMac_________________$999_______________all-in-1_____________mid-low end consumers, nth PC
iMac_______________________$1399_____________all-in-1_____________upper low-end consumers, nth PC
iMac_______________________$1599_____________all-in-1_____________upper low-end consumers
iMac_______________________$1899_____________all-in-1_____________yuppy, top of low-end consumers
PowerMac______________$1599_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders
PowerMac______________$2299_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders
PowerMac______________$2999_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders
PowerMac______________$3849_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders


Maybe I should've made an attachment so I could be more precise in constructing a product position table. Oh well!

???? = iBrick {not a name that should be used in mkt}

I'd of called the old iMac, and for that matter all iMac, converts (a low-cost means for WinDOZE users to experience a Mac so that Apple can set-the-hook), however, the iBrick does this more so than the others from a pricing/cost perspective.

The old iMac forces converts to employ a 15" CRT. I'm not alone in not wanting a 15" CRT. Senior citizens prefer more real estate for bigger text.

The new iMac converts WinDOZE users with STYLE, but at a price. An LCD WinDOZE computer offers more options and will be increasingly cheaper in upfront costs as well as 3rd party software costs. Remember, a learning curve is a cost! So, undoubtedly, the new iMac is and will continue to convert WinDOZE users but it will only tend to convert the less price sensitive of the bunch.

Many people have 15", 17", 19", and even 21" CRT's lying around or readily available, or simply cheap to purchase. Can/would these users leverage these existing assets with a new or old iMac? Don't think so!

For those that, at the least in terms of feature flexibility, want to leverage their existing monitors, must buy a low-end PowerMac at $1599, at the cheapest. Or, they can buy something used.

There are millions of potential low-end consumers that Apple would have a much better chance of capturing with a low-end, "headless" iMac, or iBrick.

Most of these people have no need for feature upgrades such as additional internal hard drives or optical drives. With Firewire or USB 2.0, external hard drives compete speed-wise with internal EIDE ATA/100/133 internal hard drives.

These consumers have limited need for increased RAM or any other feature enhancements. Most likely upgrades/additions for these users are handled nicely with USB and Firewire.

Bear in mind that CRT's are commodities. There is very little margin to be gained from their sale. So, Apple should veer away from them.

I expect that the eMac will have a razaor thin margin relative to other Apple products. Its CRT doesn't help; it hurts the margin. I suspect that the eMac represents an aggressive market share defensive product positioning adjustment as well as a means to shore up revenues and market share. These two figures tend to have more influence on stock price than they really should.

So, what is the iBrick? It would be no larger than the Cube, smaller would be better. It would have much less STYLE. Its features would have to be aligned with those of the continued old iMac line, which determines CPU selection. It would feature a relatively small (cheap) 5400 rpm EIDE hard drive, a low-end CD-ROM (possibly a CD-RW option; speed not as important as cost), same RAM and motherboard is old iMac, same number of USB and Firewire ports as old iMac (more would be nicer, however), a VGA port, and a low-end video card (sorry gamers!). The target price would be $499 with a margin comparable to that of the old iMac or higher. I'm not sure about an Airport antennae or some kind of a cheap peripheral to do the same via Firewire or USB. Oh yeah, the power supply might be external like a notebook computer.

Again, the iBrick would be a low-profile unit. It might even be designed to sit on top of a CRT or hand from its side.

Interestingly, at the risk of being too STYLISH, I would be interested in the practicallity of a form factor that would feature a body with four malluable legs, rear legs longer than front legs. It might be called Bullfrog!!! Depending upon costs, I'd make it as compact as practical. The body might be 7" wide, 8" deep (front to back), and 3" or 4" thick. The body would be rounded and rubbery, like the original iBook.

The legs wouldn't necessarily have any functionality other than as well, legs. Their feet would be just soft enough so that they'd be kind of sticky so they could sit on top of a CRT with cables pulling at it without falling off (this is why it has longer real legs). There would be holes or attachment mechanism around ankle level so that one could employ some simply means to hang the Bullfrog on the side of their monitor.

Okay, maybe the Bullfrog form factor might be too costly for the target market and Apple would just have to settle for something a little more stylish and functional than a brick.

Well, that's my view of Apple's product positioning in a little more than a nutshell.

Eirik

eirik
Apr 29, 2002, 09:23 PM
I find the clockspeed of the eMac a little interesting in regards to the dreamed of G5. At 700 MHz, just below the new iMac, and no announced change of the old iMac converting to G4's, what might this mean?

Come to think of it, I'll cut this post short and check for another thread on the G5 first.

Eirik

Macette
Apr 29, 2002, 11:50 PM
i thank those of you who have provided the semantic differentiation (imac and emac) which has allowed me to avoid eating my shoe. it is coming up to winter in melbourne, and i can't afford new shoes if i want that TiBook...

ibjoshua
Apr 30, 2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Macette
i thank those of you who have provided the semantic differentiation (imac and emac) which has allowed me to avoid eating my shoe. it is coming up to winter in melbourne, and i can't afford new shoes if i want that TiBook...

you're right it's bl**dy cold in melbourne right now

during the course of the day i've decided that this machine blows all the older imacs out of the water. it is a graceful, understated and functional workhorse.
i hope the education market embraces it with open arms.

what seems to be optional speaker grids is a perfect compromise between style and function.

my only complaint is that it doesn't have a slot loading optical drive and not enough ram (surprise surprise)

oh and i haven't got one, but i do work for a university so you never know

macosaurusrex
Apr 30, 2002, 11:01 AM
Weighing in at 50 pounds, how long before a first grader pulls this thing of the desk and is crushed?
No handles?-You'll need a hand truck or a diet supplemented with anabolic steroids to move this thing.
Can't somebody, if not Apple, make a lighter CRT?

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by macosaurusrex
Weighing in at 50 pounds, how long before a first grader pulls this thing of the desk and is crushed?
No handles?-You'll need a hand truck or a diet supplemented with anabolic steroids to move this thing.
Can't somebody, if not Apple, make a lighter CRT? Chances are that they'll be locked down to the table. I'm suprised that Apple hadn't thought of making a more "durable" version of the LCD iMac for schools instead. If the "grubby" fingers of a 1st grader poking at the LCD screen was the most pressing issue, they could have easily put a thin piece of glass over the LCD. Some Sony LCD screen have this (for the pen operated Vaios).

Well, the new enclosure is pretty snazzy. If they put in a 800mhz and a SuperDrive, I'd be going back to school for a semester.

gopher
Apr 30, 2002, 11:33 AM
But schools often just go by looks since there isn't an Apple Store at every corner. The base is really, really heavy of the Flat Panel iMac. You can barely lift it by the base alone. And while the LCD sometimes is not perfectly level because of the hinge not being tight enough when it comes from the factory, the arm is strong enough you could put a 22" LCD and it still wouldn't sag. 95% of the LCD iMac's weight is in the base. If you could imagine trying to knock over a 22 pound book. Closest approximation would be two New York City phone books bound together. The base is bigger than you think. But of course, since you can't tell that from photos, people want a CRT machine.

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by gopher
But schools often just go by looks since there isn't an Apple Store at every corner. The base is really, really heavy of the Flat Panel iMac. You can barely lift it by the base alone. And while the LCD sometimes is not perfectly level because of the hinge not being tight enough when it comes from the factory, the arm is strong enough you could put a 22" LCD and it still wouldn't sag. 95% of the LCD iMac's weight is in the base. If you could imagine trying to knock over a 22 pound book. Closest approximation would be two New York City phone books bound together. The base is bigger than you think. But of course, since you can't tell that from photos, people want a CRT machine. I've seen the iMac (last weekend at CompUSA) and it is indeed very sturdy. I did have some issues with the display model. The connection point between the back of the screen and the swing arm had a little play in it. It feels like it could snap if one were to "swivel" the screen to a portrait direction. But I really shouldn't take too much from a CompUSA display model.

As far as a LCD iMac being appropriate for young school children, I have to disagree. I have no problems of the durability of the base, swing arm, keyboard, mouse, etc. It's the LCD screen that I have issues with. I wouldn't trust a 6 y.o. with a standard LCD screen. It's too easily damaged. Little kids, LCD screens, and sharp pencils do not mix. But it's nothing that a little sheet of glass couldn't fix.

voicegy
Apr 30, 2002, 05:02 PM
Apple wants to treat their education customers as best as they can. One doesn't need REASONS to justify that statement.

eMac:

1. Speakers: They come with optional snap-in grilles. So stop screaming about the speakers becoming toast at the hands of a student. There is NO SUCH THING as a kid-proof ANYTHING. One can make improvements in that direction, but the general idea of RESPECT OF PROPERTY must come from the teacher and the parent.

2. Fan: Yup, there is one. It's vewy, vewy quiet. (shhhhh...Rabbit Season!) Why? No holes on the top of the machine so convection cooling isn't an option. Why no holes on top? Keeps kids from dropping items in the computer. VERY helpful.

3. Analog mic input: Yup! At the request of teachers. They wanted students to be able to transfer, say, interviews from audio tape to the computer. (I didn't think this was gonna be a trend in Apple's line up, but the new PowerBooks have audio in too!)

4. Exclusive to Education: Yeah, why not? Apple isn't making a heck of a lot of money on these machines...they're less profitable than lump-stick-rectangle iMacs. It's a Commitment to Education Needs machine, pure and simple.

Unless you're in education and see how kids interact with machines on a daily basis both in labs, mobile labs, and in individual classrooms, I don't think one can really comment negatively on these latest machines. I'm sick of hearing "It's Ugly, It's Not as Fast as a (whatever), The Speakers Will be Destroyed, There's No Handle, I'll Wait for the Bigger Better Faster version, BLAH BLAH BLAH. SHEEESH!!!! Give it a rest!!!

(yeah, I know, everyone has opinions, but somehow I just feel very defensive of this latest offering from Apple for my part of the world. I think it's a BIG winner, and I am unanimous in this...sorry if I yelled):(

ibjoshua
Apr 30, 2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by voicegy
Apple wants to treat their education customers as best as they can. One doesn't need REASONS to justify that statement.

eMac: . . . . . . . . . Unless you're in education and see how kids interact with machines on a daily basis both in labs, mobile labs, and in individual classrooms, I don't think one can really comment negatively on these latest machines. I'm sick of hearing "It's Ugly, It's Not as Fast as a (whatever), The Speakers Will be Destroyed, There's No Handle, I'll Wait for the Bigger Better Faster version, BLAH BLAH BLAH. SHEEESH!!!! Give it a rest!!!

(yeah, I know, everyone has opinions, but somehow I just feel very defensive of this latest offering from Apple for my part of the world. I think it's a BIG winner, and I am unanimous in this...sorry if I yelled):(

hear! hear!
unless you work in education you really shouldn't take this machine too seriously. it's not for you.

iSmell
Apr 30, 2002, 07:52 PM
Where are people going to be able to test drive these things? I assume they won't have them in the retail stores, since they're not for retail customers, but what about students who might want one, but want to see if it's as ugly as it looks in the pictures (ie ME!).
It would be a bad move to have them in the stores and then tell customers that they can't buy it unless they go back to school.

CHess
Apr 30, 2002, 07:57 PM
I doubt you'll be able to find a demo model anywhere outside of a campus computer store. You're right, a standard computer store would not carry them. I don't know what the Apple stores will do :confused:

Screamingbeaver
Apr 30, 2002, 08:08 PM
I think that this is great for education budgets... I just finished an evening Photoshop class, where our classroom had 30 workstations with a G4 Tower and 17" Apple display at each station. Now, being that the school spent $1,600 per tower plus $400 per display....if they can now purchase the eMac at $1000 each, that lab alone, the school could save $30,000.

I think this a great thing Apple has done...

'Beaver

gerror
May 1, 2002, 05:38 AM
I'm a student and I think it is a good update for my iMac 400dv. Anybody knows the prices in euro's?

iSmell
May 6, 2002, 07:44 PM
In case anybody was still losing sleep over it, I saw a video somewhere with Joswiak talking about the emac and it seems that they all ship with optional speaker grilles.
Also, I believe both of the RAM slots are user accessible (the kind that doesn't void your warranty). I might have been the only one wondering about that, but there you go.