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andyjamesnelson
Oct 25, 2003, 08:12 PM
sorry is it me or does the new finder window suck? the way it looks is stupid and over sized.. and wtf.. why cannot you scroll through all the sections with the cursor keys? i mean you cannot scroll to another disk partion.. really annoying, bassically i fail to see why this is a better design interface for the finder window.. what do you think?

Powerbook G5
Oct 25, 2003, 08:18 PM
I love it, I just wish that it'd remember the window size after I close it and reopen a new Finder window.

andyjamesnelson
Oct 25, 2003, 08:20 PM
just what is there to love? its over sized wtf are those stupid big borders about? and it has lost some functionality in that you cannot use keys to access all its part.. i dont see why the finder window is any better.

Powerbook G5
Oct 25, 2003, 08:22 PM
I can use my cursor keys in it just fine, but what do you mean about it being too oversized or the borders?

Phil Of Mac
Oct 25, 2003, 08:26 PM
I like the new Finder. It's far more logical and efficient to have the home folder, applications, and such at the left side, especially from a column view point of view. The integrated eject buttons are only icing on the cake. It's different, sure. But just like we all had to adapt to Mac OS X, Panther is something else that, once we adapt to, we will learn to love.

andyjamesnelson
Oct 25, 2003, 08:27 PM
you cannot you the cursor keys to move from through partions or onto the network section, i like to use a mouse as little as possible and this needing to click between drives and then using curser keys sucks..

and i mean that the bigg grey borders around the finder window make it look over sized.. there is a very unessecary 1cm grey border at the bottom of the window, look stupid.

cubist
Oct 25, 2003, 08:28 PM
Anybody notice that folder labels works again? Great!

I think the new Finder's pretty good. I like being able to click "Applications" on the left side.

Powerbook G5
Oct 25, 2003, 08:29 PM
I agree, it is so much more logical and easier to navigate now. It was confusing for me at first to have the Computer section, Favorites section, Home section, etc and figuring out what led to where when I had Jaguar. As far as the eject buttons, I love that feature.

andyjamesnelson
Oct 25, 2003, 08:31 PM
the eject function is cool.. but i just wish you could use the cursors to move around the whole thing

Powerbook G5
Oct 25, 2003, 08:33 PM
I seem to be able to use my cursors on the Finder window...also, have you tried clicking the button on the top right to get rid of all that brushed metal and borders that you dislike so much? That slims the window down to its bare minimum.

Phatpat
Oct 25, 2003, 08:34 PM
I love the new finder. It seems a lot more intuitive and efficient.

andyjamesnelson
Oct 25, 2003, 08:38 PM
yeah if you click that button you end up with nearly the jaguar style window..

as for cursors.. i can use them to move through the folder etc, but i cannot use them to move to another drive partion or over to application etc on the left hand side.. can you?

Laslo Panaflex
Oct 25, 2003, 08:42 PM
I love the new finder. It is alot better than jags. I have been using panther through all the buils since WWDC, and have grown to love the new finder. i love the side bar, as much as it might be a M$ "copy". I think that is it great.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 25, 2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Laslo Panaflex
I love the new finder. It is alot better than jags. I have been using panther through all the buils since WWDC, and have grown to love the new finder. i love the side bar, as much as it might be a M$ "copy". I think that is it great.

I think it copies iTunes more than Microsoft.

Taavi
Oct 25, 2003, 08:54 PM
1. Go to the finder
2. Go to preferences
3. Select Sidebar
4. Uncheck Hard Disks, iDisk, Network, Connected Servers, and Removable Media.
5. Make sure Computer has a check next to it.

Or

1. Go to the finder
2. Go to preferences
3. Select General
4. Click "New finder windows open in:" and select Computer.

Whichever way you like to do it but they should both work. Now you can use the arrow keys to navigate partitions, media, networks, etc. Have fun!

XnavxeMiyyep
Oct 25, 2003, 08:54 PM
The new Finder is more functional, but I especially love the new finder for the following reason: No more pinstipes, so aqua can look how it was meant to be.

Powerbook G5
Oct 25, 2003, 09:02 PM
Yes, death to pinstripes!

Laslo Panaflex
Oct 25, 2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I think it copies iTunes more than Microsoft.

/agree. That is why I put "copy" in qoutes. I don't think that it is a copy at all, considering M$ so blatantly copied the mac gui when it made windows.

Flowbee
Oct 25, 2003, 09:20 PM
I think the new finder is great. Huge improvement over Jag-wire.

akitzmil
Oct 25, 2003, 10:26 PM
It's mostly a cosmetic change from Jaguar plus some new features. How can that "suck"? It basically moved icons that were at the top of the window to the side.

iEric
Oct 25, 2003, 11:42 PM
i actually liked those pinstripes :confused:

i'm not really into the metal..especially when I don't have a G5 to match to it :D

fuge
Oct 25, 2003, 11:47 PM
I really like the new finder. Much more useful to me. On my computer after a clean install it runs faster than before. In the past I would get hung up on some drives or folders but haven't noticed that at all since I've installed Panther. This cat is purring nicely.

gmanrique
Oct 26, 2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I like the new Finder. It's far more logical and efficient to have the home folder, applications, and such at the left side, especially from a column view point of view. The integrated eject buttons are only icing on the cake. It's different, sure. But just like we all had to adapt to Mac OS X, Panther is something else that, once we adapt to, we will learn to love.

Phil, What or where are the integrated eject buttons?

Thanks

Phil Of Mac
Oct 26, 2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by gmanrique
Phil, What or where are the integrated eject buttons?

Thanks

It's circled in this pic: if I clicked on it, I would eject my iPod.

snickelfritz
Oct 26, 2003, 12:55 AM
I love the new finder.

jamesatzones
Oct 26, 2003, 01:14 AM
The new finder makes life much easier in my eyes...

Ananna
Oct 26, 2003, 03:34 AM
I love it.

Still getting used to it, though. I expect that after a couple of months, nobody will even remember there was an old Finder.

5300cs
Oct 26, 2003, 07:18 AM
I also liked the pinstripes. The new menu bar at the top looks kind of muddy, I dunno...

I hated 10.0, loved 10.1, then hated 10.2 and am loving 10.3 :D I say death to jaguar, my machines are all running nice and smoothly. :)

The new Finder is pretty cool I think, though as someone else said, it'll take some getting used to.

j33pd0g
Oct 26, 2003, 10:03 AM
I hate it. The borders are way too big. I don't like the sidebar at all. The aquafy tab at the top right corner needs to remember my quick easy to get to text only folders.

LuckyJack
Oct 26, 2003, 10:12 AM
I'm still getting adjusted to it, but I love the speed of it. On my aging G3, every little big helps. I know I'll become fully adjusted soon, at which point I'll truly love it, and the speed gain along with my adapted productivity will just rock.

What I don't love (and I might be missing something) is that networked servers don't show up in the left panel thingie. I have to go thru "Network", which, when I had it hidden, made it impossible to find other machines once I closed the window.

j33pd0g
Oct 26, 2003, 10:20 AM
I will give it a try for 2 weeks. If I hate it, then I'll revert back to 10.2.8

Expose, and some other features are cool - but not that cool. I will not support a clunky OS Finder.

VicMacs
Oct 26, 2003, 10:30 AM
in the longrun it looks like this is going to be the most user freindly finder ever, and with expose working with multiple apps is just GRRRRRREAT ... try this expose setting...
1.System Prefs
2. Expose
3. Now arrange the corners like this

try it! i dont kow how i lived without this;)

Powerbook G5
Oct 26, 2003, 10:32 AM
Isn't it odd how the Expose preference screenshot is of the old Jaguar "Aqua" background and not of the Panther?

realityisterror
Oct 26, 2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Isn't it odd how the Expose preference screenshot is of the old Jaguar "Aqua" background and not of the Panther?

good observation.
i personally liked the jaguar background better, but that's just me.

reality

foniks2020
Oct 26, 2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by andyjamesnelson
sorry is it me or does the new finder window suck? the way it looks is stupid and over sized.. and wtf.. why cannot you scroll through all the sections with the cursor keys? i mean you cannot scroll to another disk partion.. really annoying, bassically i fail to see why this is a better design interface for the finder window.. what do you think?

One more thing:

Check the Go menu. There is a shortcut for going up one level.. cmd (arrow up).

I think you'll find this even faster than just the cursors.

Also cmd-shift C will take you to the very top (Computer in Apple speak).

Taft
Oct 26, 2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by foniks2020
One more thing:

Check the Go menu. There is a shortcut for going up one level.. cmd (arrow up).

I think you'll find this even faster than just the cursors.

Also cmd-shift C will take you to the very top (Computer in Apple speak).

I think the original poster meant that you can't navigate in the sidebar without the use of the mouse. There is no keyboard shortcut that allows you to put focus on the sidebar.

For instance, you can use keyboard preferences to allow any program to put the focus on the toolbar. Then, with the toolbar selected, you can use the tab key or the arrow keys to focus on items in the toolbar and hit enter to select the item currently focused on. And all of this can be acheived via keyboard shortcuts and keystrokes without the use of the mouse.

There is no way (that I know of) to focus on the sidebar, focus on an item in the sidebar and then select that item using only the keyboard. That kinda sucks. This would be handy in a case where you had added a few common locations to the sidebar and you wanted to select those locations quickly via the keyboard.

But, then again, its only a small complaint. As others have pointed out, you can use the Computer level to the same effect. And I'm a fan of the rest of the Finder, so I'm willing to suffer through a few small inconveniences.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 26, 2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by 5300cs
I hated 10.0, loved 10.1, then hated 10.2 and am loving 10.3 :D I say death to jaguar, my machines are all running nice and smoothly. :)

It's like a reverse Star Trek movie thing going on, you hate all the even-numbered ones! I guess you should wait until 10.5 to buy your next upgrade then :)

Originally posted by Taft
I think the original poster meant that you can't navigate in the sidebar without the use of the mouse. There is no keyboard shortcut that allows you to put focus on the sidebar.

For instance, you can use keyboard preferences to allow any program to put the focus on the toolbar. Then, with the toolbar selected, you can use the tab key or the arrow keys to focus on items in the toolbar and hit enter to select the item currently focused on. And all of this can be acheived via keyboard shortcuts and keystrokes without the use of the mouse.

There is no way (that I know of) to focus on the sidebar, focus on an item in the sidebar and then select that item using only the keyboard. That kinda sucks. This would be handy in a case where you had added a few common locations to the sidebar and you wanted to select those locations quickly via the keyboard.

But, then again, its only a small complaint. As others have pointed out, you can use the Computer level to the same effect. And I'm a fan of the rest of the Finder, so I'm willing to suffer through a few small inconveniences.

Yeah, I couldn't do that. The "tab" key would be the obvious choice for this. This would be a minor thing for Apple to fix if someone submitted a suggestion about it.

Hugh
Oct 26, 2003, 02:19 PM
Does the new Finder update more quickly now? I mean if I thow something away from a folder, the Folder that was open sometimes wouldn't update the change of free space unless I closed the window and re-opened it again.

Also sometimes it wouldn't show the file was gone from the window until I closed and re-opened the folder.

Just wondering.

-Hugh

j33pd0g
Oct 26, 2003, 02:30 PM
Now when I transfer files or move them to the trash, it takes like 3 seconds to see the change. This is total BS. I'll fix the finder tonight by going back to OS X 10.2.8. I'll also send my Panther CD(s) back to Apple, along with a letter that simply reads: No thank you!

Powerbook G5
Oct 26, 2003, 02:47 PM
Did you do a clean install or an upgrade? Also, did you repair permissions afterwards? At first, everything seemed to lag and hang after I started playing around in the Finder after I installed it, but when I checked permissions, there was a *huge* list of incorrect permissions that I had to repair. After doing that and then restarting, the difference was like night and day. It's as if I upgraded my PowerBook from 1.25 GHz to 1.6 GHZ or something drastic.

j33pd0g
Oct 26, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Did you do a clean install or an upgrade? Also, did you repair permissions afterwards? At first, everything seemed to lag and hang after I started playing around in the Finder after I installed it, but when I checked permissions, there was a *huge* list of incorrect permissions that I had to repair. After doing that and then restarting, the difference was like night and day. It's as if I upgraded my PowerBook from 1.25 GHz to 1.6 GHZ or something drastic.

Thank for the info. I only did an upgrade. However, repairing permissions is something I do before and after. Nothing changed. I have a 1.25 dp G4 with 768 MB of ram. If I got to set this thing up one more time over a clean install then I'll do it with what works. 10.2.8 works.

Thanks.

FightTheFuture
Oct 26, 2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Yes, death to pinstripes!

well the pinstripes are still kinda there - if you select a window in the foreground, you can see them in a background window (mail, a window w/out the toolbar) where they weren't before... well... maybe. can you guys see them? maybe my eyes are playing tricks. they are still on the menu bar as well. can you imagine a brushed metal menu bar?

i always thought it was just nostalgic for apple to keep some of the pinstripes in. kindof a design theme. a hidden one at that. they've always squeezed them in there. remember when they were in the dock? oh, i miss those days...

ahem. what i think is kindof a pain is that the little action button on the finder window - you can navigate to a finder window in icon view and your items are scattered all over the place! it would be logical to put the menu bars - Views/Clean up or /Arrange in there. maybe in an update they will. its quite cumbersome to go into the view options just to clean up your icons.

oh, and the size of column view in a new window? why are they so narrow? wtf indeed! i assume by default it only allows up to 15 characters for the folder names. so you have to spread it out so you can read your files. and then when you select another folder, you have to spread it out again! egad! :eek:

Powerbook G5
Oct 26, 2003, 04:02 PM
Yes, you can still see slight pinstripes, which I think are just fine. But I remember 10.0...my god, that was just a nightmare of pinstripes wherever you looked. I love this new look. The toned down Aqua/Pinstripe theme with lots of sexy brushed metal just looks so good and sharp, especially on the aluminum PowerBook (and I bet on Titanium PowerBooks and G5s, too). As far as the action menu, I do wish they'd include the arrange as/clean up options in there as well. That would be pretty awesome, since I am always anal about keeping things arranged perfectly in line and in order.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 26, 2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Yes, you can still see slight pinstripes, which I think are just fine. But I remember 10.0...my god, that was just a nightmare of pinstripes wherever you looked. I love this new look. The toned down Aqua/Pinstripe theme with lots of sexy brushed metal just looks so good and sharp, especially on the aluminum PowerBook (and I bet on Titanium PowerBooks and G5s, too). As far as the action menu, I do wish they'd include the arrange as/clean up options in there as well. That would be pretty awesome, since I am always anal about keeping things arranged perfectly in line and in order.

Well, you can just set that once, globally, in Finder Preferences. The Action Menu is just a more convenient version of the right-click, which is pretty important with a one-button mouse.

Powerbook G5
Oct 26, 2003, 04:27 PM
I noticed that globally the changed occur in Panther. When I tried that in Jaguar, for some reason, it never would accept the arrange by name option the next time I went into Finder for whatever reason. Right now I am pretty happy with it, I think Apple did a lot of bug/efficiency fixes with the Finder for Panther. Also, the open/save boxes are killer now, along with much faster animations. Overall, I love what Apple has done with Panther. I definitely can get used to this and can't wait to see what 150 new features/tweaks they come out with for 10.4.

FightTheFuture
Oct 26, 2003, 05:25 PM
anyone wonder what the internet exploder update was? its at 5.2.3. i'm guessing it was just for panther functionality or to give it the same look as the rest of panther.

just curious, cause if i remember, m$ dropped internet exploder support and updates almost a year ago. eh.

jxyama
Oct 26, 2003, 07:10 PM
ok, i hope this isn't too dumb... i see inconsistent windows from Finder.

if i click on the Finder on the Dock, i get the thick-bordered, brushed metal Finder window with the side column.

if i double-click any storage device on the Desktop, say, the startup HD, i get the Finder window like the old Jag. If i click on the "toolbar" botton (the elongated circular botton on the upper right), the window looks like the new ones. it seems like Panther has inconsistent "default" window setting?

i think this is one thing they still haven't fixed from the Jag-era. Each windows stores its preference on how it's displayed. there's no way to make all the windows, new and old, come up in one style... ugh. oh well, it's still pretty cool...

Powerbook G5
Oct 26, 2003, 08:24 PM
I had a similar problem, not with the non toolbar aspect, but whenever I clicked on Finder in the dock, it would be significantly smaller and the sidebar would be smaller than if I were to click on the HD icon. For some reason, though, now it's consistent. I'm not sure if I unknowingly fixed it or if it just fixed itself, but now the windows remember their size/orientation/arrangement.

Galegao
Oct 26, 2003, 10:38 PM
I haven't read all the posts yet, but I couldn't agree more with what andyjamesnelson has said regarding the new finder window.
There are tons of problems with it. I'm surprised at how bad it is at showing what you have selected!!! AAAARRRRGGGG!!!!
What a hassle! I have to resize it to show me what's in the window EVERY TIME in column view.

It needs an update.:mad:

Galegao
Oct 26, 2003, 11:19 PM
YES! The new finder is great!

BUT!

Here are the probs:

1. Not minimalistic (Bulky, Clunky)
2. I dare anyone to scroll (notice I said scroll) around in column view you have to use the scrolbar all the time to see what you have selected.
3. You can't arrow-key to the top level in the finder window! - WHY THE HECK NOT??!!!!
4. When you jump between levels in column view the highlighted item is usually only HALF visible!!! WHAT IS UP WITH THAT!!!!???
5. Why doesn't my finder window "dynamically" shrink or expand fit to my documents and folders???!!!! Like Steve Jobs said it would.
6. The columns in column view are totally inconsistent and separate from eachother. I have three folders with titles of 15 letters or less and the column view either shows only half of my folders names or uses up half my screen to display part or all of 3 little folders!!! AAAAND three empty white columns.


PLEASE! Someone try these things out with the new finder and tell me your findings!
:confused:

Phil Of Mac
Oct 26, 2003, 11:42 PM
It would help if you could make your posts more intelligible and less hysterical so we could have a better idea of what you mean.

Galegao
Oct 26, 2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
It would help if you could make your posts more intelligible and less hysterical so we could have a better idea of what you mean.

Could you be more specific as to what you do not understand?
Do you have Panther installed?
Have you tried getting around in the new finder's column view?

If so, there should be no question as to what I'm talking about.

Yes, I am frustrated!
I hated the 4-level-deep finder in Jaguar and have looked forward to Panther's Finder since the day I installed Jaguar. I am dissapointed

Thanx!:confused:

pbooktebo
Oct 27, 2003, 12:01 AM
What I like best so far about the Finder is that it matches with the Save dialogue boxes in apps. I've already used that quite a lot.

I do expect they'll be some updates, but so far I'm more than happy with it.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 27, 2003, 12:02 AM
I have Panther installed. I am using the column view. It works great! I don't know what your problem is.

Rower_CPU
Oct 27, 2003, 12:08 AM
Take a deep breath and try to explain a little bit better what your problems are.

I can scroll back and forth, up and down just fine in column view. I can use my arrow keys to navigate in any directory. Jobs never demoed or said your whole window would dynamically fit the content. The only thing I've seen do that is the icon sizes change in the left panel to fit the window size.

Galegao
Oct 27, 2003, 12:50 AM
1. Open a new finder window (Apple+N) or click on an item in your finder's sidebar.
(make sure this item has at least 2 or more sub-folders)

2. What do you see when you right-arrow key or click on the next sub-folder and the next and the next? How much empty finder window space is there?

3. Do the highlighted (colored) folder's or document's titles show completely? Are they completley visible and readable? In other words, Can you see the title of the folder you are actually navigating in?

4. USING the ARROW KEYS, can you navigate from the finder window into the sidebar and from the sidebar into the finder window?

What Happens when I use column view is that the highlighted item is never completely visible and I have to click the green window expand button every time in order to see where I am in my navigating.

When I do expand the window, the highlighted column and folder is never visible or at least completely visible at the same time as the highlighted items contents.

So I am searching through a folder of pictures titled VACATION and I am unable to read the word VACATION - Even though it is highlighted in color.

So each time I want to see what folder I am searching through, I have to manually resize the finder window to see both columns at once.

I have a big open Finder window on my screen and I can only see one or one and a half columns, all the rest of the columns to the right are empty.

Why doesn't the Finder place the columns that I am searching in complete view in the center of the window?

C'mon, surely there is someone that is reading this and saying, "YEAH, I CAN'T STAND THAT!"

If not, I give up.:(

Rower_CPU
Oct 27, 2003, 01:23 AM
1) OK

2) It's all empty space to the right until you dig through enough directories to take up the space. This is no different than in 10.2.

3) Yes. I can see the full names of the directory I'm in and the directory above it. For instance: Applications>AppleScript.

4) No, and I don't have a problem with that. Those are shortcuts to directories/drives, not part of the directory structure you are actually navigating in.

It sounds to me like you're having issues with the actual column size. Have you tried resizing them? In case you don't know how, click and drag the two vertical lines at the bottom of the column separators. You can even individually resize the columns now, where in Jaguar it was a global setting.

If I'm way off-base let me know and attach a screenshot so we can see what's going on.

Galegao
Oct 27, 2003, 01:51 AM
You brought up another point:

The column view columns are now individually resizeable instead of global.
I'm not sure yet if this is an advantage or disadvantage.

But I do know that the default column width is way too wide for any title that I have on any document. Therefore I must resize the columns everytime in order to see 5, 4 and sometimes 3 levels at once.

Is there a preference setting to keep my columns at a predetermined width
(the width of the longest titled document would be the obvious solution)
instead of resizing them each time I want to see just the files and titles instead of 2 inched of whitespace to the right of each column?

I think the finder window should expand as you go deeper into your file tree instead of filling your desktop with empty columns.

It should also show at least both colums in which you are currently navigating instead of one or one and a half with an inordinate amount of empty space.

FOR EXAMPLE: When I arrow key or click on a folder in any column, the columns shift to the left and the new column appears with the previous items contents. The problem is that the left side of the finder window next the the sidebar halfway or fully obscures the previous folder selected instead of showing both at the same time. or all three or four at the same time.

This would make sense if I had just a small finder window open, but it happens even when the finder is the entire width of the screen.

I want to see my file PATH, not empty columns!

I am at work right now and unable to send pix.

Sorry.

Thanks for listening to my 'unintelligible' rants.

LuckyJack
Oct 27, 2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by Galegao
The column view columns are now individually resizeable instead of global.
I'm not sure yet if this is an advantage or disadvantage.
They are globally resizeable, if you hold down the option key while you're resizing.

Well, kinda.

In my attempts to follow your directions, I came across this odd behavior:

1. Opened a new finder window (defaults to my home directory. This does not show the upstream path to /, but I'm OK with that).

2. I always use column view.

3. I globally resized columns by option-clicking on the little bars at the bottom of the columns. I actually had a little trouble with this, as they jumped unnaturally a couple of times to really strange sizes. But I got it in the end.

4. Or so I thought. As I navigated through my home directory, I found that everything was fine -- until I got six levels deep. Things looked like this:
Music -> iTunes -> iTunes Music -> SCO_Sir Charles MacKerras -> Serenades No.1 And No.2

And to this point, every file name fit just perfectly. No ellipsis, everything's great. But the next level, instead of "Ser No.1 in D, Op.11_ V. Scher.mp3", all I can see is "Ser N...r.mp3"

Why at six levels does it suddenly drop to only an eleven-character wide column? I had to search a bit to find other places where I went that deep in my home folder, but navigating from the computer's root is pretty easy to get that deep.

[OK, I just tried something else -- I started at my computer's root, and re-sized the columns globally from as deep as I could get it. Problem seems to be solved, but it does seem like a work-around for a bug in the global-resize routine. Right?]

RichP
Oct 27, 2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by VicMacs
in the longrun it looks like this is going to be the most user freindly finder ever, and with expose working with multiple apps is just GRRRRRREAT ... try this expose setting...
1.System Prefs
2. Expose
3. Now arrange the corners like this

try it! i dont kow how i lived without this;)

NICE setup..hehe!

So far, I like Panther, some of the animations however, stutter a bit, even on my 1.33 pb, overall though, so far, so good.

Powerbook G5
Oct 27, 2003, 09:25 AM
I switched to column view and tried, but it seems to work perfectly for me. Perhaps you have a plist file that is screwed up or something? Did you do a clean install or an upgrade install?

As far as animations being choppy, I noticed that when iChat bounces with new IMs it seems to stutter a bit, along with the bouncing icons in the dock when they want your attention. Not sure what is up with that, but that seems to be the only instance of choppiness I have with the animations.

DillHarris
Oct 27, 2003, 09:33 AM
I love it! It's way more handy then Jaguar's Finder.

LuckyJack
Oct 27, 2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I switched to column view and tried, but it seems to work perfectly for me. Perhaps you have a plist file that is screwed up or something? Did you do a clean install or an upgrade install? My install was fresh and clean as a whistle. And everything's peachy now. I'm not complaining; I really like the improvements to the finder, and I'm quickly becoming accustomed to them. I think I'd have a hard time switching back.

I just can't decide if my six-levels-deep behavior was a bug, or something with my setup. I think I"ll just submit it to Apple and let them figure it out.

If I can figure out where to submit it to Apple. Hmm....

DeusOmnis
Oct 27, 2003, 10:48 AM
i personally like it

themacolyte
Oct 27, 2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Galegao
You brought up another point:

I think the finder window should expand as you go deeper into your file tree instead of filling your desktop with empty columns.



You've mentioned this several times so far. This is not a good idea and is bad UI design. A window should not decide for the user when to resize. Ever. In any program. The obvious problem is that every person will have a different idea of what the correct way to resize is, and the computer probably won't match up to each user's expectation. Second, your finder window would be jumping all over the place, resizing constantly every time you made a new selection. That would be horrible.

Global prefs would be a good idea for column width size and it's probably already in there even if there isn't a UI for it right now. Someone could probably find the plist file where the width is specified and change it...

stockscalper
Oct 27, 2003, 02:45 PM
It doesn't just suck, it's FUGLY! I'll pass on this one and wait for 10.4

sparkleytone
Oct 27, 2003, 04:50 PM
While I agree that its somewhat ugly, brushed metal is the only thing that will really work for the design they are trying to achieve. The new finder needs stark separation of the file system and the menu on the left. Also, being able to drag from any metal surface is always good.

After using Panther for about 3 weeks full time, I find it a total pain to use the Finder in Jaguar on the Macs at school. Having my most used locations always on the left is great and much more intuitive than putting them on the toolbar. Overall the Finder in Panther saves a lot of time and frustration compared to Jaguar. While there may be some things Jaguar's Finder did better, there are many MORE things that Panther's does better.

Powerbook G5
Oct 27, 2003, 04:57 PM
I only used Jaguar for a month before I got Panther, so I am not able to feel as upset about things missing from Jaguar, anyway. I love the brushed metal, but I am sure part of that is because it goes so well with my aluminum PowerBook that it looks good together. Perhaps it doesn't look as good on an all white iMac or eMac, though. One thing I noticed missing is the "Favorites" section, as far as I can see, it is completely gone. It's fine, though, since I made myself a "Games" folder and a "Utilities" folder so I can be even more organized. I love it to death, I spent a good while just customizing Finder to be unique, organized, sexy, and efficient. For the first 10 minutes I may have thought Jaguar was better, but once I started messing around with my file structure, I soon found out how great Panther has made Finder.

Foxer
Oct 27, 2003, 04:58 PM
I like it quite a bit. Much easier to get to what I'm looking for. I like the brushed metal look, blends well with G5's and powerbooks. I do agree that the new finder might be a bit too big on the boarders, but all in all, a great improvement.

5300cs
Oct 27, 2003, 05:28 PM
I think I see what the complaint about column view is all about.

When I go into column view, then click on an image file or something to see a preview, there's a lot of wasted space, i.e. the preview space is quite large, and the file names on the left get cut off.

Mildly annoying, but certainly not enough for me to revert back to Jaguar (but that's me personally. I almost never use column view.)

Am I correct? Was this the original complaint?

5300cs
Oct 27, 2003, 05:35 PM
Sorry for the second post, thought an image might make things clearer.

I'm guessing this is the complaint? It looks like an oversight maybe, hope it's fixed in 10.3.1 (if there is one.)


p.s.- just noticed it doesn't do this in the dialog box used to choose the jpeg. strange..

Phil Of Mac
Oct 27, 2003, 05:39 PM
You've got your column size set to "frickin huge", man. That's the problem.

Rower_CPU
Oct 27, 2003, 05:42 PM
LOL, Phil.

Here's what mine look like. Nice and tidy.

5300cs
Oct 27, 2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
You've got your column size set to "frickin huge", man. That's the problem.

oh.. :D heh heh.. I, uh.. I knew that..

Zero21xx
Oct 27, 2003, 09:54 PM
IIRC, the window borders were this thick in OS 8 through 9.2.2. I'm kinda glad they're back cause I can drag windows around from any side of them, not just the title bar.

As for the sidebar, if you don't like it, grab the handle between the sidebar and the folder view and drag it to the left. In effect, you hide the sidebar and get essentially a brushed-metal version of Jag's finder windows.

Just a couple things I'd like to pass on to the rest of you. I, for one, have no problem with the new interface. I find the sidebar to be very useful since I can jump straight to any of my home directory folders from anywhere. And, (slightly OT), I find that Fast User Switching makes an excellent "Lock Screen" feature, even if you only have one user on the machine. (in this case, I'm the only user on my TiBook.) Just pull up the login window. And you still get to see the rotating cube effect.

Basically, I love Panther. I don't know how I've lived without its new features.

Now I'm gonna do a permission repair and see if it'll speed things up any more.

Cheers!

-Z

Powerbook G5
Oct 27, 2003, 11:15 PM
I noticed a huge speed increase after doing a permission repair and rebooting. Panther royally screws them up, even with a clean install.

mr-mac
Oct 28, 2003, 12:07 AM
Can't you just press CMD and up at the same time to navagate the drives? sure works fine for me.

cb911
Oct 28, 2003, 06:03 AM
i have to say that at first i didn't like the way that there's all that brushed metal around the Finder windows. i just find it a bit overbearing, too much do look at for long periods. i definitely prefer the look of the window after you press the top right button...

and i forgot that you can navigate the whole computer in icon view using cmd+arrows, i was worrying too much about the oversized Finder windows. :p

the new Finder windows just look disproportionate to me. i mean look at the side borders... really slim, good size. then at the top and bottom of a window there's these comparatively massive borders. it does seem a bit inconsistent to me...:(

but i do love having all those shortcuts on the left, much better than on the top. :)

and nice to have built-in .dmg support, and i also just noticed that the Finder can preview Painter 8 documents and Photoshop documents. Jaguar could definitely not do that.

i'm sure i'll get used to it. maybe it's just because i'm cranky after installing the Panther upgrade (UtD CD's). i thought it was a full install, but after i'd partitioned my HD i find out you need a previous version of OS X to upgrade to Panther. :mad: not too happy about that...

John_Greythorne
Oct 28, 2003, 09:11 AM
Not only does it have an integrated eject button, it also installs this folder as standard for every user.

Apple does listen to its customers after all.:D

kryten2000
Oct 28, 2003, 10:06 AM
It's great. Its so much easier to drag a folder on to the left hand side instead of navigating through a ton of folders to find what your looking for.Most of the stuff like applications and documents is really all I usually navigate too any ways.My only gripe is having to resize that window each time.10.4 perhaps

j33pd0g
Oct 28, 2003, 10:26 AM
OK. I still think it's clunky, but I found a setup that I may get use to. I am at work now, so I'll share a screenshot later if anybody is interested. I have a question though. In the new finder (in view as list mode) I can't cant draw a curser select box around files or folders any more. I have to shift-click or apple-click on them individually. What's up with that.? This is kind of lame. I just did a clean install too. Any ideas?

sparkleytone
Oct 28, 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by John_Greythorne
Not only does it have an integrated eject button, it also installs this folder as standard for every user.

Apple does listen to its customers after all.:D

really clever pic :rolleyes:

ChoMomma
Oct 28, 2003, 01:09 PM
Okay!! where's mine!! I looked all over and I can't find it!

Wht's your IP address and login info? I want to compare your directories against my own so I can find that folder :D

j33pd0g
Oct 28, 2003, 01:13 PM
OK. Here is how the new finder works for me. Notice that the icons in the sidbar expand as the window does. Also, if you hover over them a white oval text will tell you the folders name.

j33pd0g
Oct 28, 2003, 01:14 PM
expansion:

John_Greythorne
Oct 28, 2003, 02:13 PM
really clever pic

Not my pic originally; 'twas Phil of Mac's.

It just goes to show that the next time you post a screenshot to demonstrate what you mean, make sure that your "specialised interest" folder is out of shot. :)

cb911
Oct 28, 2003, 07:23 PM
wow! i guess Apple really is making progress with the PornwerBook!! :p :D but i'm disappointed it only has a standard icon, it really needs something to make it 'stand out'. :D

Phil Of Mac
Oct 28, 2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by cb911
wow! i guess Apple really is making progress with the PornwerBook!! :p :D but i'm disappointed it only has a standard icon, it really needs something to make it 'stand out'. :D

I'm willing to accept icon designs.

hugov
Oct 29, 2003, 12:30 AM
the new finder is alright, but i really hate the borders, it is a waste of space on my already small 1024x768 screens. i liked the jaguar style buttons on the toolbar, to acess home, applications etc.

but seeing as i use LaunchBar i dont use them much anyway.

I think the finder should have more customization options, but this is a general mac complaint on the whole, as we are a very fussy bunch :)

jywv8
Oct 29, 2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by andyjamesnelson
sorry is it me or does the new finder window suck? the way it looks is stupid and over sized.. and wtf.. why cannot you scroll through all the sections with the cursor keys? i mean you cannot scroll to another disk partion.. really annoying, bassically i fail to see why this is a better design interface for the finder window.. what do you think?

I think the new finder widow sucks, too. That sidebar thing on the left drives my crazy. I just end up closing it all the time.

Powerbook G5
Oct 29, 2003, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by jywv8
I think the new finder widow sucks, too. That sidebar thing on the left drives my crazy. I just end up closing it all the time.

Can't you just set it to close by default so you don't go crazy closing it all the time?

diesel machine
Oct 29, 2003, 03:33 PM
So, besides LuckyJack, am I the only one who has often used the column view to move files from a folder by traversing backwards (upstream). This seems to be my only gripe with the finder so far. I want to be able to click on my home directory or any other folder I put in the sidebar and see where that folder is in hierarchy of things.
come to think of it, this really irks me.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 29, 2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by diesel machine
So, besides LuckyJack, am I the only one who has often used the column view to move files from a folder by traversing backwards (upstream). This seems to be my only gripe with the finder so far. I want to be able to click on my home directory or any other folder I put in the sidebar and see where that folder is in hierarchy of things.
come to think of it, this really irks me.

Why?

stcanard
Oct 29, 2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by diesel machine
I want to be able to click on my home directory or any other folder I put in the sidebar and see where that folder is in hierarchy of things.
come to think of it, this really irks me.

Anything I put it in that sidebar is there because I use it constantly. I don't need to be told where it is.

If I do need more than the sidebar shows be, I just command click and use the new window. If you want to know the location in the hierarchy you can get it in two actions:

1) Command click the icon
2) Command click the title in the new finder window

diesel machine
Oct 29, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Why?

Just personal preference I guess. I've grown accustomed to moving files from one folder to another by dragging backwards up the tree. The lack of this function in 10.3 isn't a deal breaker, it is just something I miss in the new version and was curious if I was the only one accustomed to seeing my files that way.

Apparently I am one of a few.

diesel machine
Oct 29, 2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by stcanard
Anything I put it in that sidebar is there because I use it constantly. I don't need to be told where it is.

Yeah I might have chosen a better example.

I am primarily a business user, and as a result I have lots of financial info, presentations, etc in different folders. I do loose track of where I am, especially if I am looking at a spreadsheet that is prepared monthly(, to detail gross profit, etc.)- am I looking at 2001 or 2002's March figures (an example)
Using the scrollbar at the bottom of the finder was an easy way for me to find my way to my next task. Clicking on a shortcut that I put at the top of the 10.2 finder would automatically show the hierarchy of everything above it. Now if I want to see that hierarchy, I have to start at the computer level and drill down to the files I want.

It may seem petty to you, but we all develop a certain way of doing things and this is mine.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 29, 2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by diesel machine
Just personal preference I guess. I've grown accustomed to moving files from one folder to another by dragging backwards up the tree. The lack of this function in 10.3 isn't a deal breaker, it is just something I miss in the new version and was curious if I was the only one accustomed to seeing my files that way.

Apparently I am one of a few.

I think if you try and adjust you'll come to like Panther better. Give it a fair shot before you start criticizing.

Besides, the files you work with should be in the Home directory or someplace like that and not scattered across your hard drive. If they are scattered, I think that's more of a problem for you.

Powerbook G5
Oct 29, 2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by diesel machine
Yeah I might have chosen a better example.

I am primarily a business user, and as a result I have lots of financial info, presentations, etc in different folders. I do loose track of where I am, especially if I am looking at a spreadsheet that is prepared monthly(, to detail gross profit, etc.)- am I looking at 2001 or 2002's March figures (an example)
Using the scrollbar at the bottom of the finder was an easy way for me to find my way to my next task. Clicking on a shortcut that I put at the top of the 10.2 finder would automatically show the hierarchy of everything above it. Now if I want to see that hierarchy, I have to start at the computer level and drill down to the files I want.

It may seem petty to you, but we all develop a certain way of doing things and this is mine.

This sounds more like an issue with the way you have your files and folders organized than the way Finder works. I'm sorry to be hard on you, but seriously, I have tons of files, presentations, papers, projects, etc, and I can easily find anything I want instantly because I organized everything and know where I put them. If you keep things scattered everywhere, then of course it will be difficult. It's like a library--if you keep it organized, you can find anything you are looking for, but if you keep it disorganized, then you will be there all day trying to find that one book you need.

stcanard
Oct 29, 2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by diesel machine
Now if I want to see that hierarchy, I have to start at the computer level and drill down to the files I want.

Any folder you are in, command-click the title bar and you will see the entire hierarchy. I find it by far the best way of seeing hierarchies I've found.

If you don't like that, add the "path" element to the toolbar. Then you have an easily available drop-down list.

I just realized looking at my work computer, command-up will take you to the enclosing folder, so there is an easy way to do that.

And if you want to drag files around, I see three great ways:

1) Using the column view
2) Using the list view
3) Taking advantage of the spring loaded folders, which even works on the icons on the sidebar.

I guess I'm just not quite understanding what you miss -- every way I look at it their are multiple ways of seeing where you are in the hierarchy. Is it just a force of habit you're trying to change? If so give it a week.

diesel machine
Oct 29, 2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by stcanard
Is it just a force of habit you're trying to change?

Most definately, and as i mentioned before it isn't a deal breaker, it just changed from 10.2 and I would have preferred that it didn't. Nothing more than a "If I was king for the day" wish.

Festooner
Oct 30, 2003, 06:30 AM
Here are some issues I've noticed with the Finder that don't relate to the column view...

I've never been an avid user of the column view, instead I've always preferred icon view and list view for my various navigation purposes. However, in Panther, Apple seems to have broken some of the functionality for these. I've always used the "snap-to grid" feature to keep icons arranged, and in Panther, Apple has increased the size of the grid by quite a bit. It seems to be twice as big and a bit off-center. This means that any window that I have icons in, that are arranged using the snap-to grid feature, are much larger than they were in Jaguar. Also, pertaining to this, on the desktop the grid doesn't seem to fit properly. Icons won't sit against the left edge of the screen anymore, which means there's a pretty substantial gap between the left edge of the screen and where the icons begin. Another gripe with icon view is when I click the resize window button to fit the window to the amount of icons I have...what happens is that if I have any icons with two rows of text, that are on the bottom row of the window, it won't resize to fit properly. It will resize to fit, but the scroll bar will still appear because the window is touching the second row of text on the icon. I find this rather irritating.

As for list view, I think someone mentioned this in a previous post but no one actually said anything about it...When you select something now it selects the whole row so you can't use the select box anymore (I know you can click and drag to select multiple thing but it's not quite as useful as the select box I find).

Anyway, these are the issues I've noticed, and so far the good features of Panther are holding me over enough to keep it (Exposé always makes me smile, hehe) but it would be really nice if apple would address some of these problems (at least the ones with icon view, I think I can get used to the list view thing).

Anyway, that's my rant...thanks for reading :p

Doxxic
Oct 30, 2003, 11:56 AM
I just want smart folders,

so finally,

after 25 years,

earth is freed of that stupid concept of arranging folders in tree-structures.

But the day will come - the day will come.

I mean, it's really a matter of letting a program like KaZaA or Poisoned search their own computer, using configurable buttons that happen to look like folders, which activate pre-programmed search commands, right?

stcanard
Oct 30, 2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Doxxic
I just want smart folders,

so finally,

after 25 years,

earth is freed of that stupid concept of arranging folders in tree-structures.


Playing with iTunes, I realized that was what smart folders are supposed to be.

Ximian Evolution uses them for mail, too.

They're coming. People just have to get used to the idea first, and the filesystems have to become fast enough.

But they're coming, one step at a time.

tduality
Oct 31, 2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by stcanard
Playing with iTunes, I realized that was what smart folders are supposed to be.

Ximian Evolution uses them for mail, too.

They're coming. People just have to get used to the idea first, and the filesystems have to become fast enough.

But they're coming, one step at a time.

Looks like I'm one of the people who have to get used to the idea. Though I'm not sure what the idea of 'smart folders' is. Are you referring to the iTunes Smart Playlists? Hmmm... sounds interesting. Any examples what smart folders would actually do? Could this be simulated with folder actions (whatever they are :p ) and/or Applescript?

Doxxic
Oct 31, 2003, 05:42 AM
Just imagine file management by the Finder would happen exactly like song management in iTunes.

Even over networks.

For Mac, as well as Windows. Again, just like iTunes.

Like iTunes is an alternative to WMP, Finder could be an alternative to Windows Explorer, so it shares files over local networks in a KaZaA-like manner. Like

Smart Folders (yes, analogue to Smart Playlists) search in this multi OS-network by criteria, instead of by location.

It would amaze me if to Apple, iTunes is anything else but a testing environment for new Finder developments, which is, for reasons of speed, risk-avoiding, simplicity and marketing, only working on mp3 and aac files...

stcanard
Oct 31, 2003, 10:54 AM
Yep, they're basically like smart playlists.

Rather than organizing your data hierarchically, you give it attributes and build "smart folders" to query on the attributes.

When you think about it, in HFS+, the path is really just an attribute attached to the file (thanks to FileId's), so you probably wouldn't even have to lose that initially!

With good categorization it solves the issue of files that really belong in different directories, i.e. do I put this requirements spec in my "Current Requirements" directory, or in my "Development Version", or in my "To do today"?

I noticed in the O'Reilly's "10 things I love about XCode" article XCode is moving in this direction too (I hope I finally get my Panther today so I can find out for myself), so I do think you will be seeing it moving into the mainstream filesystem in a while.

It would be so useful in Mail -- I'm too lazy to move my mail to different folders, self categorizing mail would be so nice!

killmoms
Oct 31, 2003, 11:40 AM
So basically what you're talking about is stored queries, like BeOS has had for years and years; a detailed search based on any number of criteria (including any amount of extendabe meta-data for a file) that is stored, and appears like a folder. And thanks to BeOS's indexed and journaled filesystem, the results were instant. Create a new file that met the criteria? There it is in your query.

Yeah, I'd like that (back) too. Get on the ball, Apple! I bought into this whole MacOS X thing because it was like BeOS on steroids and prettier (though a little less Snappy™).

--Cless

j33pd0g
Oct 31, 2003, 11:52 AM
The (left, right) border edge would be really slick if it was a hairline border. Here is mock up what it could look like: