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arn
Apr 29, 2002, 06:06 AM
New TiBooks are here!

Apple released (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/apr/29pb.html) new TiBooks today:

Apple® today introduced the new Titanium PowerBook® G4 line featuring an all-new, high-resolution display, faster PowerPC G4 processors, the industry's first integrated Digital Visual Interface (DVI) port and the industry's only integrated Gigabit Ethernet in a notebook.


- 1280x854
- 800mhz, 1MB L3 Cache
- DVI (with optional DVI->ADC converter)
- ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
- Gigabit Ethernet
- 800Mhz model has Airport Preinstalled

667mhz, 256MB RAM, 30GB, Airport Ready. $2499.
800mhz, 512MB RAM, 40GB, Airport Installed. $3199.

irmongoose
Apr 29, 2002, 06:12 AM
YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

hoooray for Apple!

so April 29th was the day, huh?


awesommmmmmmmmmmmme!!!!!!!!!






irmongoose

iGav
Apr 29, 2002, 06:27 AM
Must say, as tempted as I am to sell my Rev ! 500Mhz TiBook, I'm just gonna wait for that !Ghz puppy!!! hopefully will be released in Feb 03, just intime for my upgrade my mac window!! :p

This new TiBook certainly has some superb specs though!!! especially the L43 cache and DVI out......

Ohwell only 10 more months until I upgrade!!! :rolleyes:

I can't wait!! :D

shakespeare
Apr 29, 2002, 06:30 AM
I'm a graphic designer, and I notice that though the large typeface on Apple's site (ITC Garamond Light Condensed) is the same as ever, the accent typeface -- the small, sans-serif, grey one -- is now Myriad, instead of Lucida Grande.

Perhaps this is evidence that the site will indeed stop resembling Aqua, because Lucida Grande, which it used to use, is, of course, the GUI's typeface.

(Of course most of the site still uses Lucida, I'm just talking about the new PowerBook and eMac pages.)

Perhaps it is of some significance that Myriad (with Minion) is used by Adobe Systems for all their materials. It's the font in the print advertisements for Acrobat.

ChrisWright
Apr 29, 2002, 06:35 AM
Does anyone know if the new Powerbook uses the Apollo G4 processors?

lelereb
Apr 29, 2002, 07:07 AM
3199 US $

in Europe becomes...

3799 Euro

Common, Apple prices are too hight in Europe.

With 3799 Euro I can buy two PC Notebook of the same power.

crassusad44
Apr 29, 2002, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by shakespeare
I'm a graphic designer, and I notice that though the large typeface on Apple's site (ITC Garamond Light Condensed) is the same as ever, the accent typeface -- the small, sans-serif, grey one -- is now Myriad, instead of Lucida Grande.


Apple use their own version of the Garamond, called, dum da dum... Apple Garamond.....

But back to topic:

Drooooooooooool :p

- nuff said

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by ChrisWright
Does anyone know if the new Powerbook uses the Apollo G4 processors? A good bet would be YES on the 800 and no on the 667. And this would be the 7445 which was released back in February and had a (then) ceiling of 800mhz.

I wouldn't be suprised if the 667 is the same chip that's been in the top-line TiBook. But I wouldn't be suprised if it was a 7445 either.

Bottom line, I have no real answer, just my opinion and conjecture.

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by lelereb
3199 US $

in Europe becomes...

3799 Euro

Common, Apple prices are too hight in Europe.

With 3799 Euro I can buy two PC Notebook of the same power.

try the top model: 3800$ becomes 5400€
now if this was a typo and 5400€ should be 4400€, that would make a bit more sense but the 'typo' is thesame everywhere, even the UK so

IT'S A FRICKING RIP-OFF!

DavidOS
Apr 29, 2002, 07:36 AM
I like them. But simply put, TOO MUCH FOR ME!! I want a laptop. I want a mac. I want at least comperable speed to a 1.7 ghz P4. So, I WANT A G4!!!! How about some new ibooks, after we talked about it tons, apple gave new PB's , lets start those Ibook rumors!

Actually, it makes a lot of sense for them to be on the way. it also I think makes a greater possiblity for the G5.

old imac 600 mhz G3
ibook 600 mhz G3
emac 700mhz G4
imac 800 mhz g4
pb 800 mhz g4
Power Mac 1000 mhz G4

The Power mac is just too close to the PB and the Imac. I see a significant power bump, or a new processor, or both on the way.

The ibook is just too slow. The Power mac's companion lap top is on the same processor and only 200 mhz slower. I am sure that gap will increce, but . . .

the ibook is on an older processor and 200 mhz behind to it's mate. I think a 550, 600, or 667 mhz ibook has to be coming soon.

also, what do the emac and new pb do to the imac. IS ti going to become the ultra bottem bargin apple, or is it going to be discontinued before long?

Anyways, good work apple, I think you have done a fine job on the PB line, now we need to see some work on the ibook, and the Powermac!

lelereb
Apr 29, 2002, 07:40 AM
I live in Italy, and to the base price of 3799 I need to add also 20% tax (IVA).

So I can buy the middle configuration for the "fabulous" price of 4559 Euro.

Obviously I will never buy a computer for that price.

mrsid
Apr 29, 2002, 07:41 AM
Seems like they dropped the Irda port, but added an analog audio input port, as can be seen here:

http://a1008.g.akamai.net/7/1008/51/c2273b2bad250f/www.apple.com/powerbook/images/specs_callouts04302002.gif

DavidOS
Apr 29, 2002, 07:49 AM
oooooooooooo

I really like that mic imput. being a classical musician . . . now, we need one on the ipod. the portability and the recording quality of a minidisk player is keeping me from an ipod

chmorley
Apr 29, 2002, 08:08 AM
Can anyone tell me what that is? The port is clearly different from the one on my 667.

Chris

sparkleytone
Apr 29, 2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by lelereb
3199 US $

in Europe becomes...

3799 Euro

Common, Apple prices are too hight in Europe.

With 3799 Euro I can buy two PC Notebook of the same power.

im so tired of this crap.

so go ahead, ****, get off these forums, go buy your PC laptop and bitch about it on some PC forum. otherwise, complain about the price in more intelligent ways than "PCs cost this much"

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2002, 08:27 AM
my Rev. A is up for grabs...

best offer gets it all!!! :p

irmongoose
Apr 29, 2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by chmorley
Can anyone tell me what that is? The port is clearly different from the one on my 667.

Chris

Thats one one the biggies of this new TiBook. You can connect directly to those huge HD 23-inch Apple Displays with that DVI port. Awesome. Imagine doing your presentations on that monster display. DRRRROOOOOOOOOOL! :p :p :p




irmongoose

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by irmongoose
Thats one one the biggies of this new TiBook. You can connect directly to those huge HD 23-inch Apple Displays with that DVI port. Awesome. Imagine doing your presentations on that monster display. DRRRROOOOOOOOOOL! :p :p :p

irmongoose Actually, you can't. The DVI port will allow you to connect directly to many newer LCD screens that have a DVI connection. Apple's LCD screens have a proprietary connector called ADC. What Apple is offering is an adaptor that will convert from DVI to ADC. This adaptor is $150.

Personally, going with a DVI port is the right thing to do. Many people take their TiBooks to other sites where they need to connect with other screens and projectors. Most of these are VGA. Some are DVI. NONE are ADC. By making the DVI standard and bundling a VGA adaptor, Apple has got both bases covered.

NOTE-I read that Apple is offering a $150 rebate when you purchase the DVI-ADC adaptor with an Apple LCD.

edesignuk
Apr 29, 2002, 08:46 AM
FANTASTIC! About time, but I like others am waiting for the Ghz model :D

robotrenegade
Apr 29, 2002, 08:47 AM
I just got a big tax brake. I may have to get one today. Does anyone think they will upgrade them by the 2002 Macworld Expo??? Also should I hook up with one of these or wait?

Andries
Apr 29, 2002, 08:59 AM
Disappointed in the 1 firewire port... And I was hoping for DVD writer.

BUT ATA 66 HD is nice as well as ATI + DVI! All in all - I want one.

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 09:02 AM
I just found out about this... now I need to go home to change my shorts, and then put an ad up for my 500MHz TiBook.

Thank you Apple!!!!

Time to start b*tch-slapping those peecee people.

buffsldr
Apr 29, 2002, 09:03 AM
I am so excited!!!! I love seeing that "NEW" icon next to the pbooks. Nice work Apple.

And all you "Too much money" folks. Tough. Apple is a luxury, a premium purchase for enthusiasts who know they pay for what they get. If it seems to high, dont buy (I sound like Johnny Cochran). Or shop the deals like myself and many others have. I can wait to see what happens to the prices of existing inventory, both at Apple and their online resellers.

Any word on when this becomes available?

enchant
Apr 29, 2002, 09:03 AM
Oh what to do, what to do!

I find myself wanting to buy right now, knowing
that I don't need, never needed in fact, the power
of the G4 Tibook, yet thinking, "well, you've
strategically waited this long, you might as well
wait through MWNY."

But, some type of logic (I think) says that nothing much would happen in New York, but what do I know! I think I should probably buy.

Dustin

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr
I am so excited!!!! I love seeing that "NEW" icon next to the pbooks. Nice work Apple.

And all you "Too much money" folks. Tough. Apple is a luxury, a premium purchase for enthusiasts who know they pay for what they get. If it seems to high, dont buy (I sound like Johnny Cochran). Or shop the deals like myself and many others have. I can wait to see what happens to the prices of existing inventory, both at Apple and their online resellers.


I'm not complaining about the price in the US, I would buy one right away
but 4,866$ (5400€) for the top model in Europe is unfair
a price difference of about 450$ is quite common but a 1000$ extra??

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr
Any word on when this becomes available?

well, to my surprise (and maybe others')... it says 5 days at the online store... so that's not bad at all for a new product...

robotrenegade
Apr 29, 2002, 09:10 AM
Two firewire ports would be the best deal. I also heard that the TI Powerbook is to small for a DVD-R.

-Robotrenegade

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Matthé


I'm not complaining about the price in the US, I would buy one right away
but 4,866$ (5400€) for the top model in Europe is unfair
a price difference of about 450$ is quite common but a 1000$ extra?? Someone mentioned that Apple's price includes the VAT. I know they have a VAT in England, but what about the rest of Europe?

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by ftaok
Someone mentioned that Apple's price includes the VAT. I know they have a VAT in England, but what about the rest of Europe?

of course they do, if they didn't that would mean they would cost even more! (21%)

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr
I am so excited!!!! I love seeing that "NEW" icon next to the pbooks. Nice work Apple.

And all you "Too much money" folks. Tough. Apple is a luxury, a premium purchase for enthusiasts who know they pay for what they get. If it seems to high, dont buy (I sound like Johnny Cochran). Or shop the deals like myself and many others have. I can wait to see what happens to the prices of existing inventory, both at Apple and their online resellers.

Any word on when this becomes available?

I agree about the cost... It is still less then what I originally paid for my 500MHz TiBook when they came out. I just need to sell my 500 so that I can get an 800... I would have liked it better with a new finish, but oh well, the speed makes up for that (along with the new GPU).

Xapplimatic
Apr 29, 2002, 09:25 AM
All I can say is wow! I want one! If I had the $, I'd be grabbing an 800 right now to replace my iBook.. :) Looks like the rumos were true and then some.. upgraded screen resolution AND upgraded graphics chip.. faster G4 AND full 1MB L3.. woohoo!

mcrain
Apr 29, 2002, 09:27 AM
There are still things missing: They should have confirmed the chip type (Apollo?), had a second Firewire, built in Bluetooth, DDR ram instead of the SDRAM, and faster bus (>133).

I personally would have liked a superdrive, but I know that's a pipe dream for now.

Thanks Apple, keep it up.

lelereb
Apr 29, 2002, 09:30 AM
-----------------------------------------------
im so tired of this crap.

so go ahead, ****, get off these forums, go buy your PC laptop and bitch about it on some PC forum. otherwise, complain about the price in more intelligent ways than "PCs cost this much"
------------------------------------------------

What do you wanna read in this forum?
Apple is awesome?
Incredible prices?
Doubles pentium performances?

Go to apple.com for this intelligent way to discuss apple products.

pcs works, mac works

i don't want buy pcs 'cause my choice is osx

i can't buy tibooks 'cause it cost's too much

Apple prices in US is ok, in Europe not, for the middle price model i need to pay 4559 Euro (equivalent to 4112 US$). That's too mutch for most peoples.

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2002, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
I just found out about this... now I need to go home to change my shorts, and then put an ad up for my 500MHz TiBook.

Thank you Apple!!!!

Time to start b*tch-slapping those peecee people.

hey Alpha...need a towel??! he he he...:p

robotrenegade
Apr 29, 2002, 09:31 AM
"Disappointed in the 1 firewire port... And I was hoping for DVD writer."

Two firewire ports would be the best deal. I also heard that the TI Powerbook is to small for a DVD-R.

-Robotrenegade

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by eyelikeart


hey Alpha...need a towel??! he he he...:p

I grabbed a stack of paper towels the other day, good thing too... :D

Now, to see about getting one of those new puppies...

Mr. Anderson
Apr 29, 2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by robotrenegade
"Disappointed in the 1 firewire port... And I was hoping for DVD writer."

Two firewire ports would be the best deal. I also heard that the TI Powerbook is to small for a DVD-R.

The super drive would be nice, but 2 firewire ports aren't necessary, you can connect in serial more firewire devices than you could easily manage on the machine. The only time more than one would come in handy is if you have an iPod and digital camera to hook up at the same time. I don't know about you, but that doesn't happen all that often for me.

I'm more excited about the DVI port and higher res screen.:D

c-ker
Apr 29, 2002, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by ChrisWright
Does anyone know if the new Powerbook uses the Apollo G4 processors?

I don't think so if you mean, "Is it the lower-power 7445 processor that would allow cooler running?" But I'm no engineer and would appreciate comments from those with more knowledge/experience on this. Help!

From what I see at Motorola, mainly the PPCCPUSUMM .pdf, the specs show no support for L3 cache in the lower-power 7445. So it must be the same 7450 as in the 667 or the 7455, which both support L3 cahce and which run at higher voltages and dissipate more heat that would cause the fan to run.

Does anyone know if they did anything to correct the poor Airport range?

wrylachlan
Apr 29, 2002, 09:39 AM
Those of you complaining about a lack of a faster system bus, lookat the tech specs.

The 667 shows a 2.5Gbs throughput.
The 800 shows a 3.2 Gbs throughput.

I'm not an expert, but doesn't that mean that the 800 is using the 133 bus?

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by wrylachlan
Those of you complaining about a lack of a faster system bus, lookat the tech specs.

The 667 shows a 2.5Gbs throughput.
The 800 shows a 3.2 Gbs throughput.

I'm not an expert, but doesn't that mean that the 800 is using the 133 bus?

According to the tech spec's, they BOTH are using the 133MHz bus. They both have 1MB DDR L3 cache's.

I WANT ONE!!

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2002, 09:48 AM
looks like I'm heading for the 667...it won't set me back much at all and with all of the extras....I'll have a considerable difference in performance...esp with the L3 cache & new video...

something I think about is why the hell did Apple not go with something like it in the Rev. A?? was it simply to get the things out...then tweak them out later once they had interest??

wrylachlan
Apr 29, 2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


According to the tech spec's, they BOTH are using the 133MHz bus. They both have 1MB DDR L3 cache's.

I WANT ONE!!

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I think that the paragraph at the middle of the page that says 133Mhz bus is misleading. If you look at the bottom of the page in the chart, it clearly shows that the 667 is on a slower bus than the 800.

Anyone clear this up?

Andries
Apr 29, 2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet


The super drive would be nice, but 2 firewire ports aren't necessary, you can connect in serial more firewire devices than you could easily manage on the machine. The only time more than one would come in handy is if you have an iPod and digital camera to hook up at the same time. I don't know about you, but that doesn't happen all that often for me.

I'm more excited about the DVI port and higher res screen.:D

External FW HD - (I use to boot 9 & as HD backup), Sony Digi Cam, Ipod. I hear you on the serial connecting, but most (none of mine) devices don't allow for it.

O yes - Screen res is brilliant.

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by wrylachlan


Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I think that the paragraph at the middle of the page that says 133Mhz bus is misleading. If you look at the bottom of the page in the chart, it clearly shows that the 667 is on a slower bus than the 800.

Anyone clear this up?

Ok, here it is from the spec's page (it is also shown in the Apple Store's PowerBook page).

Processor and memory
667- or 800MHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine
1MB of DDR SDRAM level 3 cache
133MHz system bus
256MB or 512MB of PC133 SDRAM; two SO-DIMM slots support up to 1GB

Mr. Anderson
Apr 29, 2002, 10:01 AM
So I was a nay sayer all last week, going on about how Apple couldn't put out new machines a week before WWDC. Well, I'm eating my words and happy to do it.

Now the big question is why? And eMac with a G4, a TiPB with DDR RAM, hmm. Could there be even bigger things in store for WWDC?

The iApp for video conferencing is going to be coming out in MWNY with QT6, that's going to be cool.

All I can think is that the G4 pro line is loosing ground to its lower end brothers, something HAS to happen to then soon. Could it be as soon as next week? It seems doubtful, but who knows.

wrylachlan
Apr 29, 2002, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Ok, here it is from the spec's page (it is also shown in the Apple Store's PowerBook page).

Processor and memory
667- or 800MHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine
1MB of DDR SDRAM level 3 cache
133MHz system bus
256MB or 512MB of PC133 SDRAM; two SO-DIMM slots support up to 1GB

We're going in circles here. I saw that. It clearly states a 133Mhz bus.

Why then does the 667 show a memory throughput of 2.5GBps and the 800 a memory throughput of 3.2GBps. Look at the bottom of the tech specs page and you'll see what I'm talking about. In order to have different memory throughputs either the buses need to be different speeds or different widths. Different widths I find highly unlikely.

The bottom line is that Apple is contradicting itself in its own literature, so quoting their literature as proof isn't going to convince me. Does anyone have a reliable source to say which one is correct?

wrylachlan
Apr 29, 2002, 10:18 AM
OK I'll take credit when I screw up. The memory throughput figures that caught my eye were for the cache... which is couple to the processor clock so of course the faster clock makes for more throughput.

I feel stupid now.

Thanks for listening folks. Nothing to see here. You can all go home. Nothing to see here.

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2002, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by wrylachlan
OK I'll take credit when I screw up. The memory throughput figures that caught my eye were for the cache... which is couple to the processor clock so of course the faster clock makes for more throughput.

I feel stupid now.

Thanks for listening folks. Nothing to see here. You can all go home. Nothing to see here.

yeah man...u getting everyone's panties in a bunch here...he he he...:p

anyway...I read the specs on the "Buy Now" page and it said they were both on 133 system bus...so I got confused a bit myself...

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 10:31 AM
My next post was going to be about the speed and such differences, but you found it out on your own.

For that, you get one brownie point.... Get enough of them, and you can purchase either flame proof shorts, or try and get a 'get out of flamewar free' card. :D... both good items to have in reserve.

mcrain
Apr 29, 2002, 10:37 AM
Ok, so this has been a pretty good day, but...

WHAT'S IN STORE at the MWNY? They couldn't have blown their entire wad now with nothing left for then, could they?

Oh, and why is Motorola's press release department so confident it will post a profit during the second half of the year?

What's it all mean?

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by mcrain
Ok, so this has been a pretty good day, but...

WHAT'S IN STORE at the MWNY? They couldn't have blown their entire wad now with nothing left for then, could they?

Oh, and why is Motorola's press release department so confident it will post a profit during the second half of the year?

What's it all mean?

the speculations over the G5 will soon pour through my friend...

what else could it be??

mischief
Apr 29, 2002, 10:42 AM
I was totally anticipating making a morning "Pie-List" for the day with 4 or 5 people whining about how this is such a SMALL change and why doesn't Apple do a TiBook with another 50 BTU's of components in it..... blah blah blah

But that isn't the case.......bravo. Carry on!!:D

BTW: I WANT ONE TOO........

For the record:

The maximum cost is $8,552.00 with all the extras, 23" monitor, AppleCare, etc.:eek:

johnpaul191
Apr 29, 2002, 10:54 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mrsid
[B]Seems like they dropped the Irda port, but added an analog audio input port, as can be seen here:

i guess this is the revision where they drop the Irda, but have not yet integrated bluetooth inside the machine? interesting. too bad it's not built in somewhere. oh well, i would much rather have the audio in port than Irda anyway. it's a very cool machine. guess this means we are looking at some sort of minitower revision next? very interesting.

IndyGopher
Apr 29, 2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by lelereb
3199 US $

in Europe becomes...

3799 Euro

Common, Apple prices are too hight in Europe.

With 3799 Euro I can buy two PC Notebook of the same power.

Then do. Fast. And shut the hell up about it when you do. I don't care if you can buy 50 PC notebooks and make a cluster of them, they still won't be able to run Mac OS X... and that's why you buy a Mac. Get OVER the price. Cope.

Pants
Apr 29, 2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by IndyGopher


Then do. Fast. And shut the hell up about it when you do. I don't care if you can buy 50 PC notebooks and make a cluster of them, they still won't be able to run Mac OS X... and that's why you buy a Mac. Get OVER the price. Cope.


The complaint isn't that the price is too high period, but that the 'exchange rate' is a rip off. If a 3000 buck dell pc is costing say, 2300 quid here, but a comparably priced apple is coming in at 2800 sheets, then I think euro consumers should and would be justifiably peeved. That kind of exchange rate trick is nothing more than sharp practice, and one that has just recently burnt M$'s x-box fingers.

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Pants



The complaint isn't that the price is too high period, but that the 'exchange rate' is a rip off. If a 3000 buck dell pc is costing say, 2300 quid here, but a comparably priced apple is coming in at 2800 sheets, then I think euro consumers should and would be justifiably peeved. That kind of exchange rate trick is nothing more than sharp practice, and one that has just recently burnt M$'s x-box fingers. Yes, but does the Dell price include the VAT? In one of the other posts, someone stated that Apple is now including VAT in their prices where most companies do not. Would the VAT bring the 2300 quid Dell up to the 2800 quid Mac?

johnpaul191
Apr 29, 2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet
[B....... All I can think is that the G4 pro line is loosing ground to its lower end brothers, something HAS to happen to then soon. Could it be as soon as next week? It seems doubtful, but who knows. [/B]

you would think a revamped desktop Pro machine would wait for MWNYC, but does 3 months seem far away for a revision right now? they did do the jump to 2 x 1,000mghz in mid January, so July is keeping the approx 5 month cycle. i don't see a G5 yet, but i would think there will be *something* to really set the flagship pro model apart from the consumer machines. i am hoping they will finally jump the motherboards to something faster (and faster chips would be nice). with all the high end AV editing Apple is really jumping into (with recent buys of software makers), i would think they will need some sort of killer machine to make that work fly. rendering of CG effects takes a looooooooong time, and time is money. those high end users are willing to shell out some serious money for a machine is it can increase productivity that much. think what a digital editor for a top hollywood studio is paid. then think of how much they are paid to sit and drink pepsi while work is rendering. a friend of mine made an independent horror movie. it got some CG work done in post production. it was done at a well known, well geared place (powermac G4s). even the minor work he had done took forever to render. he said there were couches everywhere to nap while things were being done. that's a lot of wasted time. *if* they can make the hardware to reduce that wasted time, it's well worth the price to the serious high end users.

IndyGopher
Apr 29, 2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Pants



The complaint isn't that the price is too high period, but that the 'exchange rate' is a rip off. If a 3000 buck dell pc is costing say, 2300 quid here, but a comparably priced apple is coming in at 2800 sheets, then I think euro consumers should and would be justifiably peeved. That kind of exchange rate trick is nothing more than sharp practice, and one that has just recently burnt M$'s x-box fingers.
I understand that... and no one is saying that it is fair.. but neither is it new. That is the way Apple has always done it, is the way they likely always will do it, and complaining about it AGAIN each time any new Apple product is released is TIRESOME at best. MORE importantly, the whole bit about constantly comparing the price to PC prices is a really quick way to piss off anyone who has to listen to that drivel in here 15 times a day.

Luckster
Apr 29, 2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by wrylachlan

Why then does the 667 show a memory throughput of 2.5GBps and the 800 a memory throughput of 3.2GBps. Look at the bottom of the tech specs page and you'll see what I'm talking about. In order to have different memory throughputs either the buses need to be different speeds or different widths. Different widths I find highly unlikely.


The main system bus is 133 MHz. This means that that the SDRAM is PC-133. This is actually quite fast for a laptop. Before anyone comments about DDR, the G4 does not support it. Get over it. You are going to have DDR system ram using a current G4. Apple has, at least on the desktop systems, streamlined the memory to processor path, thus rendering 133 quite fast. It is also more economic to use PC-133 and streamline the board than to use more expensive and exotic ram types (See Rambus 400).

The throughput is a function of the chip cache. The L3 cache runs at 1/4 the speed of the chip. For a 667 MHz processor, the cache is running at 166 MHz. This gives you a throughput of 2.5 GBps. The 800 MHz version has cache running at 200 MHz, giving a throughput of 3.2 GBps.

I hope this answers your question.

gbojim
Apr 29, 2002, 11:25 AM
Looks like good news for delivery. I dropped into our local reseller this morning since I couldn't buy the two I needed last Friday, and I was told I could pick them up at the end of the week.

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by IndyGopher

I understand that... and no one is saying that it is fair.. but neither is it new. That is the way Apple has always done it, is the way they likely always will do it, and complaining about it AGAIN each time any new Apple product is released is TIRESOME at best. MORE importantly, the whole bit about constantly comparing the price to PC prices is a really quick way to piss off anyone who has to listen to that drivel in here 15 times a day. I'm not speaking for lelereb or pants, but I think the complaint has merit.

Here's what they're saying. A $3000 Dell in the US is sold in the UK for 2300 pounds. A $3000 Powerbook in the US is sold in the UK for 2800 pounds. That's what they're complaining about, not the currency conversion.

Mr. Anderson
Apr 29, 2002, 11:40 AM
Well, I love the new machine, but it sucks for me because I just bought one in November. I can't see dumping the one I have and getting a new one, even though its more than just a speed bump.

I'll be a little envious when the post comes along "I just got my new TiPB 800!"

I'll get to do this in a year or so when they put a G5 in it (don't start talking about heat and battery issues, I know) and I'll make everyone else jealous. How soon do you think the Apple stores will have then in? I'd love to go and drool on on?

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
How soon do you think the Apple stores will have then in? I'd love to go and drool on on?

maybe within the next 3 weeks....I'm not sure how long it took originally since they took nearly a month to get initial orders out...

goldenrod
Apr 29, 2002, 12:11 PM
I am planning on buying a TiBook. Should I go for these newer models (I lean toward a big yes) or find the last revision at a cheaper price? By the way, I am a graphic design/computer art student, so consider that in your advice.

Thanks.

SPG
Apr 29, 2002, 12:12 PM
If the price difference is too much, here's an idea...
How much are plane tickets?
Bring a very old worthless PC laptop working or not, declare it when you enter the country and drop it in the trash on the way out the airport. Take a taxi to the Apple Store, buy a tiBook get back on the plane.
Oh yeah, fly to a state that doesn't have sales tax or have it mail ordered to a friend/accomplice.
_________________________
Where there is a will, there is a relative.

peterjhill
Apr 29, 2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by c-ker

I don't think so if you mean, "Is it the lower-power 7445 processor that would allow cooler running?" But I'm no engineer and would appreciate comments from those with more knowledge/experience on this. Help!

From what I see at Motorola, mainly the PPCCPUSUMM .pdf, the specs show no support for L3 cache in the lower-power 7445.

Actually according to Motorola (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7445&nodeId=03M943030450467M98653) the 7445 is "Designed to be pin-compatible with Motorola’s MPC7451/MPC7450, the MPC7455 reaches speeds of 1 GHz with a core voltage of 1.6V and includes 256KB of on-chip L2 cache with support of up to 2MB of backside L3 cache."

I certainally hope that they went with this processor, please Apple, come through for us!

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by goldenrod
I am planning on buying a TiBook. Should I go for these newer models (I lean toward a big yes) or find the last revision at a cheaper price? By the way, I am a graphic design/computer art student, so consider that in your advice.

Thanks.

I would go with your big yes! The new brighter HD displays should be worth it alone.

P.S. Welcome to MacRumors. :)

goldenrod
Apr 29, 2002, 12:43 PM
Thank you!

It's good to be here. I should just go for it; I've never owned a mac, and a TiBook wouldn't be a bad start ;)

Pants
Apr 29, 2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by IndyGopher

I understand that... and no one is saying that it is fair.. but neither is it new. That is the way Apple has always done it, is the way they likely always will do it, and complaining about it AGAIN each time any new Apple product is released is TIRESOME at best. MORE importantly, the whole bit about constantly comparing the price to PC prices is a really quick way to piss off anyone who has to listen to that drivel in here 15 times a day.


look, it has NOTHING to do with comapring apple prices to pc prices, but more a questioning of their slightly sharp pricing structure. Oddly enough the 'intarnet' makes these things glaringly apparent. The question is, do the people that make these prices actually view apple as 'global' company or parochial? As an outsider looking in, this flakey use of exchange rates, together with their retail policy, seems like further justification that apple only bought Big Georges book of the world ;)

secondly, folks, are these bulletin boards merely 'apple love ins'?Are some of you really unable to take any objectively criticism of the more questionable corporate actions? I mean, its kind of funny to see some of the more mindless sycophants here lately (the '**** I wants a Apple in My Trailer!' brigade are almost comedic...). Hey, you almost sound like some Redmond apologists......

TypeR389
Apr 29, 2002, 12:47 PM
Anyone know if stores have these yet, either Apple or otherwise? I want one this afternoon! :)

3xtrmn8r
Apr 29, 2002, 01:01 PM
Aren't prices in Europe usually higher due to those killer (20%) sales taxes you have out there??? I know in the UK, VAT is integrated into prices of many products. I don't know about Italy or other countries, but high prices with VAT would be your home country's fault, not Apple's. Additionally, isn't the American Dollar worth more than the Euro??

Don't blame Apple, blame yo habitat.:p

monkeydo_jb
Apr 29, 2002, 01:03 PM
I am a lifetime peecee user :(

With the release of OS X I have been interested in venturing away from M$ and learning OS X. Is it very cumbersome jumping from windoze to mac? I am definately going for a Powerbook when I decide even though the Notes administrator and our Research and Development guys make fun of me for considering switching. They say mac is for simpletons (don't flame me, I'm fragile) and that having a mac is like having an automatic transimition car (even though I see their point, that's not much of an argument). I am a power user (network administrator of 350+ computers) and student and would like some feedback from power mac users (not powermac, power mac.....get it?) Please toss some knowledge my way.

Oh, also, is it easy to put a mac on my home network with airport?

-jeff

britboy
Apr 29, 2002, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by SPG
If the price difference is too much, here's an idea...
How much are plane tickets?
Bring a very old worthless PC laptop working or not, declare it when you enter the country and drop it in the trash on the way out the airport. Take a taxi to the Apple Store, buy a tiBook get back on the plane.
Oh yeah, fly to a state that doesn't have sales tax or have it mail ordered to a friend/accomplice.


by doing that, i could save myself around $500! (yes, i've checked the prices) That's probably what i will do, when it comes to getting my next laptop.

It's not just with apple computers that this happens though. Some friends of mine flew over to new york last year for their christmas shopping, and it ended up being cheaper than if they'd bought the same in the UK!

Pants
Apr 29, 2002, 01:22 PM
britboy - the cheapest of all options it seems is to get the boat to Norway, buy a ti book, and claim the tax back on leaving.... :)
mucho cheaper. As it stands (Ive just checked the exchange rates) the US price is almost identical to the british price sans sales tax. the euro price does seem a little inflated, but then that I suspect is the price for joining the Euro...;)

electrosoni
Apr 29, 2002, 01:29 PM
Ok, here in Switzerland it looks like the prices are higher... so here is a quick breakdown for all those who are whining or not tolerant enough to understand the pain of being outside the US when it comes time to pay for the latest greatest lust fulfilling products (though I was impressed the international sites were coordinated on this one!).

800mhz base unit:
US apple store USD 3199 (no tax) x1.62 (exchange)= CHF 5182 + 7.6% tax = CHF 5530. Got that?

So what is the Swiss apple store price? CHF 5999! A difference of 469 CHF! (USD 290) Now we also have to consider here that we pay a computer recycling fee upfront, and also some shipping costs. But still.... I want this machine......

What I find good and funny is the price for the high end unit at the Swiss store : CHF 7118.99! Ha ha... 0.99? Really got to be joking on that one! go for it Steve, I can afford 0.01 cent more!


:D

peteMG
Apr 29, 2002, 01:29 PM
Dear Apple Customer,

Thank you for placing your order with Apple Computer, Inc. Your order has been successfully received and is currently being processed.800 mhz, on the way baby!!

Thanks for keeping my hopes up for so long, guys; I've been itching, and ready to pull the trigger since january. Even though there were a few false starts, the buzz finally came true. <triumphant music>

They quoted 5 days, and I got overnight shipping (how could I not?). I'll be sure to take pictures of the unpacking. Also will do benchmarks if anyone is interested.

-p

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by peteMG
800 mhz, on the way baby!!

Thanks for keeping my hopes up for so long, guys; I've been itching, and ready to pull the trigger since january. Even though there were a few false starts, the buzz finally came true. <triumphant music>

They quoted 5 days, and I got overnight shipping (how could I not?). I'll be sure to take pictures of the unpacking. Also will do benchmarks if anyone is interested.

-p

I hate you! ;)

mcrain
Apr 29, 2002, 01:43 PM
To all those complaining about the price, you have two real choices.

Buy something you can afford or save till you can afford it.

If, on the other hand, you just don't like the price and think it is unfair, you can always move somewhere where you aren't getting nailed with all sorts of fees/tariffs/taxes.

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by monkeydo_jb
I am a lifetime peecee user :(

With the release of OS X I have been interested in venturing away from M$ and learning OS X. Is it very cumbersome jumping from windoze to mac? I am definately going for a Powerbook when I decide even though the Notes administrator and our Research and Development guys make fun of me for considering switching. They say mac is for simpletons (don't flame me, I'm fragile) and that having a mac is like having an automatic transimition car (even though I see their point, that's not much of an argument). I am a power user (network administrator of 350+ computers) and student and would like some feedback from power mac users (not powermac, power mac.....get it?) Please toss some knowledge my way.

Oh, also, is it easy to put a mac on my home network with airport?

-jeff

Think of OS X as an automatic with a manual stick override. :D

You'll love it. And unless you use a whole ton of PC apps that don't have Mac equivalents, transitioning should be a breeze (or you could always get VirtualPC if it's a vital program). Since you are a network admin, you may have some experience with Unix already? There's where my manual stick override analogy comes in. OS X is the automatic, but you've always got access to the Unix command line when you need it.

I'm no expert on AirPort, but it shouldn't be hard.

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Macintosh. :D

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 01:49 PM
Setting up Airport is easy. If you already have a wireless network in place, it will be even easier. If you don't, then setting up the basestation will spoil you, it's that easy.

buffsldr
Apr 29, 2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by lelereb
-----------------------------------------------
im so tired of this crap.

so go ahead, ****, get off these forums, go buy your PC laptop and bitch about it on some PC forum. otherwise, complain about the price in more intelligent ways than "PCs cost this much"
------------------------------------------------

What do you wanna read in this forum?
Apple is awesome?
Incredible prices?
Doubles pentium performances?

Go to apple.com for this intelligent way to discuss apple products.

pcs works, mac works

i don't want buy pcs 'cause my choice is osx

i can't buy tibooks 'cause it cost's too much

Apple prices in US is ok, in Europe not, for the middle price model i need to pay 4559 Euro (equivalent to 4112 US$). That's too mutch for most peoples.


Yo.... All you anti-zealots, you know who you are, and unfortunately so do we, cause we have to scroll through all your titles to get to the posts, it looks like you have a new recruit on your hands. Shave his head, issue him a non-sensical title and he's in.

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 01:52 PM
I've cooled down a bit regarding the price
turns out the US store is VAT excl (I thought people were obligated to show their prices incl VAT, must be a European thingie), making the figures more comparable. How much % is US VAT anyway?
since I'm self-employed, my uncle Sam will cough up the VAT so I'm thinking about ordering myself an 800Mhz 40Gigs Ti, the display will have to wait

Macmaniac
Apr 29, 2002, 01:55 PM
This is great for Apple! We were a day off with our predictions! WWDC must have and OS X update ahead! Now the only thing that has to be upgraded is the PowerMacs! I can smell a G5 at MWNY!

Rower_CPU
Apr 29, 2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Matthé
I've cooled down a bit regarding the price
turns out the US store is VAT excl (I thought people were obligated to show their prices incl VAT, must be a European thingie), making the figures more comparable. How much % is US VAT anyway?
since I'm self-employed, my uncle Sam will cough up the VAT so I'm thinking about ordering myself an 800Mhz 40Gigs Ti, the display will have to wait

It depends on the state.

CA has an ungodly 7.4% sales tax, and if you buy from Apple w/in the state you have to pay it. If you live in one state and buy from a different one you don't pay tax...some states (Oregon) don't have sales tax AT ALL..

Confusing ain't it? ;)

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Matthé
I've cooled down a bit regarding the price
turns out the US store is VAT excl (I thought people were obligated to show their prices incl VAT, must be a European thingie), making the figures more comparable. How much % is US VAT anyway?
since I'm self-employed, my uncle Sam will cough up the VAT so I'm thinking about ordering myself an 800Mhz 40Gigs Ti, the display will have to wait But we do have sales tax (in most states). I live in New Jersey, sales tax is 6%. Normally, I drive down to Delaware (only about 30 minutes for me) to buy most of my computer stuff. Sales tax in Delaware is 0%.

VAT = Value Added Tax (or is it Tariff). What value does it add?

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 01:58 PM
Matthé, I've never delt with VAT when purchasing computers, or anything for that matter, must be a European thing. I also fully intend to schlep up into Salem, NH and purchase the TiBook (as soon as I can, and will make sure they have one there for me). NH doesn't have sales tax, and no, I won't have to pay it when I cross the border :p .

buffsldr, maybe it's just me, but I think that guy is a week bit over-zealos (sp?) for my taste. I don't [usually] get that nasty right off the bat, at least not lately.

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr
Yo.... All you anti-zealots, you know who you are, and unfortunately so do we, cause we have to scroll through all your titles to get to the posts...

Oh I'm so sorry you're burdened with our one-line titles... :rolleyes:

And you obviously have missed the entire point of the campaign, which is to REBUKE guys like him, not RECRUIT them.

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


It depends on the state.

CA has an ungodly 7.4% sales tax, and if you buy from Apple w/in the state you have to pay it. If you live in one state and buy from a different one you don't pay tax...some states (Oregon) don't have sales tax AT ALL..

Confusing ain't it? ;)

:eek: ??? how anyone is willing to pay VAT there is beyond me
there is absolutely no way you can't find a way to not pay taxes

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
[B]I also fully intend to schlep up into Salem, NH and purchase the TiBook (as soon as I can, and will make sure they have one there for me). NH doesn't have sales tax, and no, I won't have to pay it when I cross the border :p .
Technically, you do. You are obligated to fill out a tax form and send in a payment to the state.

I remember NYC setting up stops along the bridges coming from NJ to pull people over that had large pieces of furniture. You see, they opened up an IKEA store in Edison, NJ that charges only 3% sales tax. Since furniture is usually bulky, they stopped people transporting furniture across into NYC and billed them the difference. I think NYC is 8.5%.

But no one ever bothers to pay the tax due.

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Matthé


:eek: ??? how anyone is willing to pay VAT there is beyond me
there is absolutely no way you can't find a way to not pay taxes

Actually, it depends on where you make the purchase. Some catalogs don't charge sales tax, but nail you with shipping charges. Other places are willing to work with you on the tax, to a point. Not everyone can drive to a state that doesn't have sales tax. I know some people that are more then an hour or two from such a state would rather pay the tax, then drive for several hours. I am fairly lucky that I am only an hour from NH and the Apple Store there (or one of them).

buffsldr
Apr 29, 2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Hemingray


Oh I'm so sorry you're burdened with our one-line titles... :rolleyes:

And you obviously have missed the entire point of the campaign, which is to REBUKE guys like him, not RECRUIT them.

Relax, bro.... its cool. Seriously, that guy sounds pretty level headed. Should be a nice addition to the war on zealots.

As far as your sigs go, whatever man. I am too happy today to get into a flamewar. I got new TiBooks to drool over.

Can't we all just get along?

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by ftaok
Technically, you do. You are obligated to fill out a tax form and send in a payment to the state.

I remember NYC setting up stops along the bridges coming from NJ to pull people over that had large pieces of furniture. You see, they opened up an IKEA store in Edison, NJ that charges only 3% sales tax. Since furniture is usually bulky, they stopped people transporting furniture across into NYC and billed them the difference. I think NYC is 8.5%.

But no one ever bothers to pay the tax due.

Prove it... I have NEVER heard of filling out such a form in MA...

Matthé
Apr 29, 2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Actually, it depends on where you make the purchase. Some catalogs don't charge sales tax, but nail you with shipping charges. Other places are willing to work with you on the tax, to a point. Not everyone can drive to a state that doesn't have sales tax. I know some people that are more then an hour or two from such a state would rather pay the tax, then drive for several hours. I am fairly lucky that I am only an hour from NH and the Apple Store there (or one of them).

I'm quite lucky aswell: I think most European taxes are about 21% but because off my self-employedness, I get the amount charged deducted from my next VAT-income bill
but still, buying abroad is usually cheaper

SPG
Apr 29, 2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by ftaok
Technically, you do. You are obligated to fill out a tax form and send in a payment to the state.

I remember NYC setting up stops along the bridges coming from NJ to pull people over that had large pieces of furniture. You see, they opened up an IKEA store in Edison, NJ that charges only 3% sales tax. Since furniture is usually bulky, they stopped people transporting furniture across into NYC and billed them the difference. I think NYC is 8.5%.

But no one ever bothers to pay the tax due.

You're joking right? You meam the Ikea in Elizabeth? Exit 13A?
Oh wait no, you're right. That's why they have the National Guard at the tunnel now, taxing your $89.95 kultur coffee table.

buffsldr
Apr 29, 2002, 02:11 PM
Display
15.2-inch (diagonal) built-in TFT widescreen active-matrix display
- Supports millions of colors at 1280-by-854-pixel resolution
- Supports 3:2 aspect ratio resolutions of 1280 by 854, 1152 by 768, 896 by 600, 720 by 480, and 640 by 480 pixels
- Supports 4:3 aspect ratio resolutions of 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels

Can anyone explain the above to me? I am concerned that to use 1280*854 you have to go to 3:2 mode. What? I got this info from http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr
Display
15.2-inch (diagonal) built-in TFT widescreen active-matrix display
- Supports millions of colors at 1280-by-854-pixel resolution
- Supports 3:2 aspect ratio resolutions of 1280 by 854, 1152 by 768, 896 by 600, 720 by 480, and 640 by 480 pixels
- Supports 4:3 aspect ratio resolutions of 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels

Can anyone explain the above to me? I am concerned that to use 1280*854 you have to go to 3:2 mode. What? I got this info from http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

The 3:2 is the native aspect ratio, but you can push it to go the other. I always go native mode on the TiBook, since I like both the extra screen space, as well as the crisper resolution (at least in the past).

buffsldr
Apr 29, 2002, 02:15 PM
Thank you kindly, AlphaTech. It's back to work I go, but how am I expected to concentrate on a day like this?!

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr
Thank you kindly, AlphaTech. It's back to work I go, but how am I expected to concentrate on a day like this?!

You're not... muahahahahahahahahahaaaaa... Just like I am trying to sell my current TiBook to get the new one... or somehow come up with the extra $$ to get the new one.

Damn/Thank you Apple!!!!

ftaok
Apr 29, 2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Prove it... I have NEVER heard of filling out such a form in MA... PROOF? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE PROOF! :D

Seriously, I put in a quick call to the Mass. DOR and confirmed my suspicion. I used the computer in NH scenario.

Try this link (http://www.dor.state.ma.us/Forms/formsIndex/taxformsSALE.htm#s1) and look for form ST-11. It's called a Use Tax.

But hey, who's gonna fill this out? I don't, but then again, I live in Jersey.

Gelfin
Apr 29, 2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Prove it... I have NEVER heard of filling out such a form in MA...

Perhaps MA doesn't have such a law, but most states do. It's typically called a "Use Tax," and it is an attempt to recover tax revenue lost when citizens buy out of state. You're supposed to save receipts and declare anything you purchase out of state, and pay tax on them.

Unfortunately for the states, this is an "honor system" sort of thing, since there is not, and legally cannot be, any way for one state to require merchants in another state to keep and submit records of purchases. As a result, nobody ever pays the Use Tax except maybe the compulsively honest. I've never met anyone that compulsively honest.

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 02:27 PM
Such an obscure little form.... Who in their right mind would fill that out??? Like I would willingly give any state extra money when I don't HAVE to. MAYBE if I had a business where I could deduct the computer I would consider filling that out. Since I don't though, I won't.... screw 'em...

Hemingray
Apr 29, 2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr


Relax, bro.... its cool. Seriously, that guy sounds pretty level headed. Should be a nice addition to the war on zealots.

As far as your sigs go, whatever man. I am too happy today to get into a flamewar. I got new TiBooks to drool over.

Can't we all just get along?

No hard feelings, of course. :D

I just wanna make sure our campaign doesn't get misconstrued! We're on your side. :)

enchant
Apr 29, 2002, 02:55 PM
yeah, I think I'm going to do it.

One question: as I browse through some of the MacMall/etc sites (Yes, I have also read that I should wait a couple of days for them to post more attractive bundles -- whether or not they pan out...), I don't see any mention of the Apple care plan.
I'm very interested in getting protection plan; is it only available if you order from Apple directly? I am a student; will that matter?

Dustin

edesignuk
Apr 29, 2002, 02:58 PM
Looks like we may have one of the most popular topics of all time (at least the time I have been here :) ) 5 pages so far...where will it end!

Rower_CPU
Apr 29, 2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Matthé
:eek: ??? how anyone is willing to pay VAT there is beyond me
there is absolutely no way you can't find a way to not pay taxes

I lied, it's actually 7.25...it just feels like 7.4 ;)

Yes, it's pretty ridiculous...that's why I'm ordering my next Mac from Outpost.com or some similar online vendor who doesn't charge sales tax, even though I have an Apple store just 5 minutes away from my front door.

bonehead
Apr 29, 2002, 03:38 PM
I ordered the Ultimate this morning at 9:45 am (Pacific). It should arrive in a week or so. Now I need to figure out what to do with 9500/200 I've had for the last 5 years. Anyone need an extra anchor for their boat?

Rower: I think CA sales tax is 8.25% isn't it?

King Cobra
Apr 29, 2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by verbose101
Looks like we may have one of the most popular topics of all time (at least the time I have been here :) ) 5 pages so far...where will it end!

Actually, one of the longest (and most off topic) threads was the "kind and generous people" page under the Sale/Trade section.

Let's see if we can make 300 posts for this alone :)

There seems to be a conspiracy at class, which runs only PCs, about loading information on the Powerbooks. I cannot get the Apple front page to load the new Powerbooks! I cannot even get into the powerbook tab section in their website under a PC! It loads everything else fine (eMac, iMac, iBook, iPod, PowerMac) but not the new Powerbook G4s.

Just two hours ago I come home and load the page on my half gigahertz Cube and everything loads fine. I am using dial-up and the PCs are using a T1 for...sakes! WTF?

Anyways, I am glad to hear new Powerbooks are out, so that I can afford cheaper Rev A's. But I will wait before my father gets me one (if he does).
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 04:17 PM
hey KC... I am checking out the Apple site no prob from work. We have three T1 lines, behind the corporate firewall, and I am on a 733MHz G4. Maybe those peecee's at work don't have all the plug-ins, or are not fully up to date. Either that, or Apple is starting to play hardball with the peecee platform. :D

King Cobra
Apr 29, 2002, 04:21 PM
Maybe it is just that Pascack Hills is full of PCs. :)

Then, again, maybe it is just that I use a Mac...
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

peterjhill
Apr 29, 2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
hey KC... I am checking out the Apple site no prob from work. We have three T1 lines, behind the corporate firewall, and I am on a 733MHz G4. Maybe those peecee's at work don't have all the plug-ins, or are not fully up to date. Either that, or Apple is starting to play hardball with the peecee platform. :D

That would make sense, lets try not to increase our market share any further by making it hard for nonpurists to access the company web site. I'm sure steve thought that one up.

--
the previous comment in no way reflects reality

jaykk
Apr 29, 2002, 05:24 PM
yes, I could not go to apple's website from my work pc in the morning.. i think the server was overloaded. Its indeed a great day. I may put my 550MHZ on ebay and get a 800 Mhz. I want my Virtual PC to run little faster, then i can say goodbye to PC alltogether or when IBM decides to release db2/websphere on Mac OS X platform.

SPG
Apr 29, 2002, 05:28 PM
KC, Montvale eh? Working for Mercedes, BMW, or Volvo? Either way, have you checked with the Tice's Corner Apple Store to see when they'll get them in?

Locking the PC's out of the Apple website is a tactic of the new Ultra Zealot Wing.

King Cobra
Apr 29, 2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by SPG
KC, Montvale eh? Working for Mercedes, BMW, or Volvo? Either way, have you checked with the Tice's Corner Apple Store to see when they'll get them in?

Locking the PC's out of the Apple website is a tactic of the new Ultra Zealot Wing.

All right, easy big guy. I currently have no job, but I am interested in two fields:

Astronomy
Apple Computers

And as for PCs being locked out of the Apple website . . . this will just add to the complaints that PC users get. They have to get a Mac before they see one online!

But, if you guys look back at what I said, everything BUT the Powerbook was displayed. I guess PC net surfers are being protected from looking at these new Powerbook specs, then looking at their computers and, basically, worshipping the Powerbooks.

And the G5 is not even here yet!

P.S. I am glad people are starting to nickname me KC. It just sounds right.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

SPG
Apr 29, 2002, 05:52 PM
Hmmm, Just went over and loaded the Apple site just fine on a PC, powerbook page and all. If this is any sort of conspiracy, it must be by the PC zealots.

Jookbox
Apr 29, 2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


It depends on the state.

CA has an ungodly 7.4% sales tax, and if you buy from Apple w/in the state you have to pay it. If you live in one state and buy from a different one you don't pay tax...some states (Oregon) don't have sales tax AT ALL..

Confusing ain't it? ;)

calif sales tax is based on region. for example in los angeles it's 8.5% and in sanfrancisco i think it's 8.75%

AlphaTech
Apr 29, 2002, 07:10 PM
I wonder... if a MA resident bought a computer while visiting in CA, and paid sales tax in CA... Could they get the difference back after getting back to MA??? MA has a 5% sales tax.

madamimadam
Apr 29, 2002, 08:16 PM
When ever I read something interesting and worthwhile on this site, I send it to a few select people in the office that I know would like to be up-to-date with what is new and what is to come. I never sent them the info on the rumours of the new powerbooks or the 17" iMacs because it was too hard to believe that those rumours would be true to the day and not just the same crap that floats around rumour pages all the time.

Don't I feel like the fool behind the times now.
:)

Rower_CPU
Apr 29, 2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Jookbox
calif sales tax is based on region. for example in los angeles it's 8.5% and in sanfrancisco i think it's 8.75%

I went off of the info from this page for sales tax:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/index.htm

7.25% is the base tax you can expect to pay. It's up to individual counties/towns to set their own standard.

chibianh
Apr 29, 2002, 09:52 PM
anyone hear about the heat issue? or anything about airport reception? I'm just curious... either way, mine is on the way!! yay!!

Also, mcrain, i'm wondering if YOU are going to buy this beast?

Chris Fam
Apr 29, 2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by ChrisWright
Does anyone know if the new Powerbook uses the Apollo G4 processors?

Apollo G4? what's that? something good? how many type of G4 procssor out there? can someone tell me about this? thanks.

madamimadam
Apr 30, 2002, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Chris Fam


Apollo G4? what's that? something good? how many type of G4 procssor out there? can someone tell me about this? thanks.

Previous to this new style G4 processor, there was no hope in hell that they were going to get the G4 to 1GHz. The Apollo is so similar to the previous chips that it is not a different generation but different enough to have a new name. It uses less power than previous chips and can be scaled up to 1GHz.

I would say the PBs would HAVE to use all Apollo due to the heat given out by previous chips as well as the fact that Apple would ALWAYS want to use processors that use less power.

peterjhill
Apr 30, 2002, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
I would say the PBs would HAVE to use all Apollo due to the heat given out by previous chips as well as the fact that Apple would ALWAYS want to use processors that use less power.

Okay... who got one, crack open the case and tell us what the chip says. What, you say there is a heat sink glue'd to it, rip that puppy off, you don't need it anyway, what do you think this is, a windoze computer? ;)

--

the above is a joke, the author of this post is in no way responsible for someone actually following his directions.

c-ker
Apr 30, 2002, 07:03 AM
Motorola.com has the specs for the 7455 (Apollo) vs. the 7450 (Vger) and I can't see any difference in power dissipation. The 7445 (Apollo) dissipates less power but it does not support L3 cache which is on the new Ti book so I'm guessing that if they are using an Apollo processor, it's the 7455. Sure would be nice if Apple would speak up on that and also on Airport range. So far, their silence is telling.

I saw the new machines at a local Apple store and the Airport antennae look identical between the older and newer Ti books. Except for the ports in the back, I can't see any exterior difference between older and newer.

ear2ear
Apr 30, 2002, 07:54 AM
Here in Ontario (Canada) the Provincial Sales Tax (PST) is 8%. Not bad, but then there is a national Goods and Services Tax (GST) which is an additional 7%, making a grand total of 15% one pays in sales tax!

The PST varies from province to province. For instance, in Alberta, there actually is none and in Newfoundland it is 15% (22% after GST).

The GST was only created in the late 80s, and the present government campaigned on eliminating it, however they were first elected in 1993 so most of us aren't keeping our fingers crossed.


This may suck when I go to buy a new Mac, but then again, health care is free, so you gotta look at the big picture.

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


I lied, it's actually 7.25...it just feels like 7.4 ;)

Yes, it's pretty ridiculous...that's why I'm ordering my next Mac from Outpost.com or some similar online vendor who doesn't charge sales tax, even though I have an Apple store just 5 minutes away from my front door.

ABSOLUTELY 100% INCORRECT!!!

If you buy from another state, and the vendor does not have nexus with your state, you will owe use tax to your home state (assuming your state collects sales tax). You are responsible to report the items purchased for which sales tax was not collected by the vendor.

If you do not do so, and get caught for whatever reason (note: there are often bounties for people turning in tax cheats), you will then owe the tax plus penalties and interest. Oh, and if you protest, don't even think that I, or anyone like me, will give you a break.

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by chibianh
anyone hear about the heat issue? or anything about airport reception? I'm just curious... either way, mine is on the way!! yay!!

Also, mcrain, i'm wondering if YOU are going to buy this beast?

I'm moving to Houston at the end of May, so I'm holding on to my bank account until I've paid for any unexpected costs (utility deposits, etc) that I haven't budgeted for, and then, if I have enough I'll buy or, if I don't I'll have to wait a little while to save up. But, yes, I want one badly.

(God, i hope the G5 MWNY rumors don't start flying too soon or I'll be in a pickle)

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
I wonder... if a MA resident bought a computer while visiting in CA, and paid sales tax in CA... Could they get the difference back after getting back to MA??? MA has a 5% sales tax.

You can usually get a credit on your state's income taxes at the end of the year for taxes paid to other states in excess of your state's rate, however, that's usually a miniscule number and not worth documenting.

On the flip side, if you bought in MA with its 5% rate and live in Cali, when you get home, you are responsible for reporting the purchase and paying the difference in use taxes.

Rower_CPU
Apr 30, 2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by mcrain
ABSOLUTELY 100% INCORRECT!!!

If you buy from another state, and the vendor does not have nexus with your state, you will owe use tax to your home state (assuming your state collects sales tax). You are responsible to report the items purchased for which sales tax was not collected by the vendor.

If you do not do so, and get caught for whatever reason (note: there are often bounties for people turning in tax cheats), you will then owe the tax plus penalties and interest. Oh, and if you protest, don't even think that I, or anyone like me, will give you a break.

That's a pretty ridiculous situation. I've never heard of anything like it in all my purchases on the web. If this is actually the law (do you have a section number to back it up?) why aren't online vendors required to inform you of it at the time of purchase?

bobbyG4
Apr 30, 2002, 10:04 AM
http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_item.jhtml?category=Roundup&LookupId=/dv/xml/roundup/2002/hones_3_0102

check out this link...... and then discuss:eek:

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
That's a pretty ridiculous situation. I've never heard of anything like it in all my purchases on the web. If this is actually the law (do you have a section number to back it up?) why aren't online vendors required to inform you of it at the time of purchase? I'm not sure about on-line purchases, but if you physically go to another state (with no sales tax) to purchase something, you are required to pay the tax to the state you live in. This is the case in most states. If you look at some of the earlier posts (pages 2 and 3), you'll see that this applies to NJ (my state) and Mass (AlphaTech's state). It's called a Use Tax.

Once again, I don't know if it applies to on-line and mail-order purchases. To my knowledge, I think George W Bush vetoed that down so that it doesn't apply. But my memory is fuzzy.

dblissmn
Apr 30, 2002, 10:46 AM
Congress pretty thoroughly killed off the Internet/mail-order tax before Dubya ever even got a chance to look at it. Don't worry, it will come up again. Sooner or later the revenue hit on state governments -- and the competition to storefront retailers big and small -- is going to bring the states and the US Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business down so hard on Congress that they'll be forced to require mail order retailers to collect tax. Or else small business and retailers are going to split off from big ones politically, and that would not be in the Republican party's interest.

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by ftaok
I'm not sure about on-line purchases, but if you physically go to another state (with no sales tax) to purchase something, you are required to pay the tax to the state you live in. This is the case in most states. If you look at some of the earlier posts (pages 2 and 3), you'll see that this applies to NJ (my state) and Mass (AlphaTech's state). It's called a Use Tax.

Once again, I don't know if it applies to on-line and mail-order purchases. To my knowledge, I think George W Bush vetoed that down so that it doesn't apply. But my memory is fuzzy.

The internet tax required all internet vendors to collect sales taxes for the 50 states and then remit that tax to the various states where products were purchased.

Use taxes are taxes on your privilege of using a product in the state in which you live.

That tax is not required to be collected by companies without nexus to your state, and the person required to pay it is the consumer. You.

The use tax applies to anything you buy and then use in your state, even if you buy it through the internet.

chrismear
Apr 30, 2002, 10:59 AM
Just in case some people didn't know about it:

The Apple Developer Connection always has in-depth technical info on hardware products, so if you want some detailed specs on the new TiBooks (right down to the minimum thread depth of the screw hole on the hard drive!), then head here:

http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/PowerBook_G4/index.html

Grokgod
Apr 30, 2002, 11:01 AM
I didnt see any specs on the machines on this article.

But any time I hear the word Compaq, I also hear the word crap echo in the distance!
If see that the G4 is behind the crap then I am very unhappy.

Yet, there is a 7 percent difference tween machines the author stated.
So, if these are 2ghz pentiums vs a 500 or 800 g4, then this is all good news , isnt it!>?

Also , I wanna know if Mcrain is going to buy this unit, cause if he is , then so am I! So there. If its the SOI chip that is. I already own a stove!

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by dblissmn
Congress pretty thoroughly killed off the Internet/mail-order tax before Dubya ever even got a chance to look at it. Don't worry, it will come up again. Sooner or later the revenue hit on state governments -- and the competition to storefront retailers big and small -- is going to bring the states and the US Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business down so hard on Congress that they'll be forced to require mail order retailers to collect tax. Or else small business and retailers are going to split off from big ones politically, and that would not be in the Republican party's interest.

Actually, the internet tax bill or whatever it was called will probably never be needed. Most states are aggressively pursuing nexus actions with internet/brick and morter companies forcing them to collect sales taxes. In addition, state's are trying very hard to find a definition of nexus that will hit internet companies without being in violation of various SC opinions.

Finally, there is an effort to come up with a nationwide sales tax agreement between all the states that would require all states to require all vendors to always collect sales taxes, and then through agreements between the states, the appropriate amounts of revenue would be remitted.

So, in sum, if any of the actions by the States work to get nexus or sales tax collection and reporting, then the internet tax thing won't be necessary (unless it is recast as a new tax in addition to the sales/use tax)

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by mcrain
The internet tax required all internet vendors to collect sales taxes for the 50 states and then remit that tax to the various states where products were purchased.

Use taxes are taxes on your privilege of using a product in the state in which you live.

That tax is not required to be collected by companies without nexus to your state, and the person required to pay it is the consumer. You.

The use tax applies to anything you buy and then use in your state, even if you buy it through the internet. mcrain,

So what you're saying is that by requiring the on-line vendor to collect Sales Tax for every state, the end result would be that the buyer's state would get the tax that they're supposed to. The only change would be that the vendor would pay it rather than the buyer.

I guess the states really want their money and the advent of the Internet allows them an opportunity to do so. Can't blame 'em.

Thanks for adding more good info to this side discussion.

AlphaTech
Apr 30, 2002, 11:04 AM
You can also get extremely detailed information, as well as how to fix issues (hardware and software) if you have access to the AppleCare Service Source. Granted, the developer connection doesn't cost anything to get access to, and the service source does.

Personally, I have access to both items, and use them daily to check on items, or look up issues/fixes.

beech
Apr 30, 2002, 11:04 AM
There is not VAT in the US. Sales tax works differently - it is entirely dependent on the value of the goods being sold, while the VAT is dependent on how much "value" was added by the last step in the supply chain.

"Use Tax" is a poor substitute for sales tax. It was thought up by bitter states that border states with lower sales taxes, and is of dubious Constitutional merit. Of course, even a few hundred bucks rarely merits a trip to the Supremes.

By the way, the sales tax in Seattle (including municipal taxes and state taxes) is well over 9%. But- no income tax.

3rdpath
Apr 30, 2002, 11:08 AM
but has we all know, laws are only as viable as their enforcement.

the letter of the law is open to interpretation ( i'm no lawyer but i've supported a few....). if, how and to what extent a law is enforced is really the actual definition of the law in real-world terms. i'm not saying the law isn't real unless you get caught. states aren't enforcing it because they doubt its viabilty. there has been talk in congress of taxing internet sales but the lobbyists have held it off for a while.

someday we may see a flat % tax on internet sales-but i bet it'll go to the federal govt first( they gotta make up the SS deficit somehow-and we know its " all them yuggins on computers" who are spending the bucks.)

personally, i buy most of my equipment in state because CA gives a tax break to the entertainment industry on eqp purchases. its not tax free, but i get good enough deals where its a wash, price wise. not to mention, if the gear fails i have someplace to take it back to---that day. no R/A's, shipping, and replacement limbo. thats worth 5% to me. i also have a good relationship with a salesman who can find me gear when everyone else is out-or who can call me when something cool comes out. something to think about if you're a gear junkie.

i'm not lawyer bashing( i had planned to get a JD...) or anti-law( as anyone who saw the Morpheous flame-war carnage will attest..)-i'm just stating that some laws are not logical, viable or worthwhile to enforce... and to interpret that all i need are guns, lawyers and money:D

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by beech
[B]There is not VAT in the US. Sales tax works differently - it is entirely dependent on the value of the goods being sold, while the VAT is dependent on how much "value" was added by the last step in the supply chain. How does one determine the "value" added by the last step? Is it the mark-up by the vendor from his supplier? Seems to me like it would be pretty easy for a vendor to get his supply from his own distributor and thus add very little "value".

But I'm sure they've thought of this and put in some other language preventing this. Those sneaky law-makers are always one step ahead (most of the time).

NOTE - no offense intended to the law-makers that may or may not frequent this board.

eric_n_dfw
Apr 30, 2002, 11:28 AM
This "Use Tax" is news to me, I find it hard to believe that it is true. However, I did some quick poking around and found this URL: http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pub/plsql/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=34&pt=1&ch=3&rl=346

Sure enough, it sounds like we Texans are supposed to be reporting something to and paying some kind of "Use Tax" to the state.

I'm not much of a laywer and am unsure, though, if this applies only to businesses or also to individuals. Any legal type's out there who can make English out of that web page?

I find it hard to beleive that they expect us to pay this thing since I had to really search to find out it even exists! (We have no income tax here; otherwise I would have expected to find such a tax mention on those forms.)

Rower_CPU
Apr 30, 2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by ftaok
I'm not sure about on-line purchases, but if you physically go to another state (with no sales tax) to purchase something, you are required to pay the tax to the state you live in. This is the case in most states. If you look at some of the earlier posts (pages 2 and 3), you'll see that this applies to NJ (my state) and Mass (AlphaTech's state). It's called a Use Tax.

Once again, I don't know if it applies to on-line and mail-order purchases. To my knowledge, I think George W Bush vetoed that down so that it doesn't apply. But my memory is fuzzy.

I've never heard of a "Use tax" and never seen an entry for it on my tax forms...I don't think that all the people in Northern California who go up to Oregon to buy things at 0% tax do either.

mcrain, I'm still waiting on a section number/bill/anykind of proof to back up your claim.

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


I've never heard of a "Use tax" and never seen an entry for it on my tax forms...I don't think that all the people in Northern California who go up to Oregon to buy things at 0% tax do either.

mcrain, I'm still waiting on a section number/bill/anykind of proof to back up your claim. It's probably not in the Income Tax Return forms. There's probably a seperate form that you could use. They have them in Mass and in NJ for sure. California is probably no different.

Try calling your state's Department of Revenue and asking them. They'll know.

BTW, just cause you've never heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

iGav
Apr 30, 2002, 01:14 PM
Boy oh boy... does the Tax thing in the US sound screwy!!

In the UK we pay VAT at the extortionate rate of 17.5% any pretty much anything, nless you are either A: company or B: Self employed...... then you claim it back.....

Well I let my accountant sort ou my Tax........ I'm crap with figures..... unless they're on the ladies of course!! ;)

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I've never heard of a "Use tax" and never seen an entry for it on my tax forms...I don't think that all the people in Northern California who go up to Oregon to buy things at 0% tax do either.

mcrain, I'm still waiting on a section number/bill/anykind of proof to back up your claim.

The reason you haven't heard of this before is probably because every time you ever ordered anything over the internet or mail order, you broke the law.

As for this being a "claim" that I have to substantiate, first, I'm a tax lawyer. This is what I do.

Second, every state sends out their version of the 1040, and in the packet of materials should be a use tax return (you've probably been throwing yours away). That return is what you file every year to remit use taxes on purchases.

Still don't believe me. Here's the Illinois form. Oh, and don't feel so bad about being a tax criminal. Lots of people are still unaware of this tax, but we're working on that.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/taxforms/Sales/st44.pdf

Rower_CPU
Apr 30, 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
The reason you haven't heard of this before is probably because every time you ever ordered anything over the internet or mail order, you broke the law.

As for this being a "claim" that I have to substantiate, first, I'm a tax lawyer. This is what I do.

Second, every state sends out their version of the 1040, and in the packet of materials should be a use tax return (you've probably been throwing yours away). That return is what you file every year to remit use taxes on purchases.

Still don't believe me. Here's the Illinois form. Oh, and don't feel so bad about being a tax criminal. Lots of people are still unaware of this tax, but we're working on that.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/taxforms/Sales/st44.pdf

So, I'm a criminal because the tax laws are unclear, unavailable (since you can't seem to find a document to back up what you say) and online vendors don't inform you of your responsibility to report out of state purchases on your taxes? I'm a criminal because you guys don't do your job and educate people? That's pretty f*cked up!

I haven't been mailed tax forms for the past two years, and have had to pick them up from the library, etc.

I'm a computer tech, so if I told you that the new PowerBook runs at 1GHz you'd believe me because "that's what I do". Please. Give me something that proves your point and I'll back off.

Matthé
Apr 30, 2002, 02:03 PM
I'm sorry to say: I'm the who brought up the whole tax thing
had no idea how complex it is, no wonder no-one pays VAT/Use tax/whatever

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
So, I'm a criminal because the tax laws are unclear, unavailable (since you can't seem to find a document to back up what you say) and online vendors don't inform you of your responsibility to report out of state purchases on your taxes? I'm a criminal because you guys don't do your job and educate people? That's pretty f*cked up!

I haven't been mailed tax forms for the past two years, and have had to pick them up from the library, etc.

I'm a computer tech, so if I told you that the new PowerBook runs at 1GHz you'd believe me because "that's what I do". Please. Give me something that proves your point and I'll back off.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violating the law. Try that defense out the next time you try to get out of an obscure traffic ticket.

The various Departments of Revenue in the state education the citizens of their states through releasing publications, printing readiliy available forms, having telephone assistance lines, etc...

On top of that, as a taxpayer, you are obligated to pay the taxes you owe.

If your point is that the ST-44 Use tax return doesn't prove that a use tax is owed in situations where no sales tax was collected, then try reading 35 ILCS 105/3 as an example of one state's use tax.

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 02:16 PM
Here's the reg on the issue. Also on the web site, so your argument that we haven't done enough to inform the public is silly.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinformation/regs/part150/150-101.pdf

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 02:28 PM
Obviously, San Diego isn't in Illinois, so those references are of little use to you, but you can always call:

For additional information, contact the
Board’s Consumer Use Tax Section at P.O.
Box 942879, Sacramento, CA 94279-0037,
telephone number (916) 445-9524 or you
may call our Information Center at 1-800-
400-7115.

wrylachlan
Apr 30, 2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Here's the reg on the issue. Also on the web site, so your argument that we haven't done enough to inform the public is silly.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinformation/regs/part150/150-101.pdf

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but nowhere in that document does it make mention of an exception for items you have already paid state tax on. Therefore people who buy items in state must pay sales tax AND use tax?

I'm not a constitutional scholar, but I have to believe the states would be given a run for their money proving the constitutionality of these taxes if it ever went to the Supreme Court.

Matthé
Apr 30, 2002, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by mcrain


Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violating the law.

doesn't your signature say:"fear the taxman"?
yet you are defending them with such fire
does this mean:
a) you are a taxman and we should rightfully fear you
b) you are extremely honest and believes in paying his dues to society
c) you just like to be right despite your personal feelings towards the subject
d) none of the above?

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Matthé


doesn't your signature say:"fear the taxman"?
yet you are defending them with such fire
does this mean:
a) you are a taxman and we should rightfully fear you
b) you are extremely honest and believes in paying his dues to society
c) you just like to be right despite your personal feelings towards the subject
d) none of the above? I would think that he would fall under (a), but he's not with the IRS. I think he's a tax lawyer.

Have you watched the movie The Firm (or read the book)? Those guys were tax lawyers.

mcrain, is your life as exciting at Mitch's?

Spock
Apr 30, 2002, 02:47 PM
Hey can someone give me their old TiBook? I will pay shipping.

AlphaTech
Apr 30, 2002, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Spock
Hey can someone give me their old TiBook? I will pay shipping.

Give??? I will 'give' it to you, if you pay about $2000 shipping, plus handling. How about it???

The Vulcan heat must be getting to you. :rolleyes:

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by wrylachlan
I'm sorry. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but nowhere in that document does it make mention of an exception for items you have already paid state tax on. Therefore people who buy items in state must pay sales tax AND use tax?

I'm not a constitutional scholar, but I have to believe the states would be given a run for their money proving the constitutionality of these taxes if it ever went to the Supreme Court.

Couple of points.

These types of taxes have been tested and do not interfere unconstitutionally with interstate commerce.

Second, there are exceptions to the payment of use taxes, however, the reg posted is not the reg that describes those. That reg is merely a cite to authority for the proposition that if you purchase a product outside of your state and do not pay sales tax on the purchase, you may owe use tax in your home state.

jefhatfield
Apr 30, 2002, 03:16 PM
try to pass a a young kid, move to los gatos, and join steve wozniak's class

...i am sure he will supply you with one

he has a few bucks last time i checked...but don't get too greedy, he is not a multi-billionaire so just ask for the lower end tibook:p

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by ftaok
I would think that he would fall under (a), but he's not with the IRS. I think he's a tax lawyer.

Have you watched the movie The Firm (or read the book)? Those guys were tax lawyers.

mcrain, is your life as exciting at Mitch's?

I'm a tax lawyer, but not for the IRS. I do, however, work for a government agency enforcing tax laws. Oh, and no, my life is no where near that exciting.

mcrain
Apr 30, 2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Spock
Hey can someone give me their old TiBook? I will pay shipping.

Oh no!!! Another "Travis" type thread in the making.

jefhatfield
Apr 30, 2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by mcrain


I'm a tax lawyer, but not for the IRS. I do, however, work for a government agency enforcing tax laws. Oh, and no, my life is no where near that exciting.

you mean you don't have jamaican beauties throwing themselves at you on a tropical island?;)

ftaok
Apr 30, 2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Oh, and no, my life is no where near that exciting. That's too bad. I personally think that Jeanne Tripplehorn is one of the most underratedly beautiful women in the world.

Matthé
Apr 30, 2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by mcrain


I'm a tax lawyer, but not for the IRS. I do, however, work for a government agency enforcing tax laws. Oh, and no, my life is no where near that exciting.

so, do you think we should pay taxes when we can avoid to do so?
or do you believe in the justness of your profession?

Mausabiest
Apr 30, 2002, 03:33 PM
Coming back one more time to the sales tax problem, here in Europe you con see the difference in you go online to the nations apple-stores. For the Ti-Book the prices differ about 4406Euro in Germany to 4558 Euro in Austria. That´s the salestax difference. In Dollar thats about 140$ difference. For the same product, the same software, the same language. So for people coming from Austria it´s a lot cheaper to shop in Germany. By the way, salestax in Germany is 16%. We can dream of salestaxes under 10%.

So you buy what you get and you shoudn´t complain. Compare and then decide.

Greetings from the old world

Spock
Apr 30, 2002, 04:17 PM
No I am not a Travis I was just joking I have the 800 on order.

AlphaTech
Apr 30, 2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Spock
No I am not a Travis I was just joking I have the 800 on order.

Good to have that cleared up... for future reference, you might want to put a 'j/k' at the end of a post like that, so that we all know. People tend to take things a weee bit too literally here. :D

Rower_CPU
Apr 30, 2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violating the law. Try that defense out the next time you try to get out of an obscure traffic ticket.

The various Departments of Revenue in the state education the citizens of their states through releasing publications, printing readiliy available forms, having telephone assistance lines, etc...

On top of that, as a taxpayer, you are obligated to pay the taxes you owe.

If your point is that the ST-44 Use tax return doesn't prove that a use tax is owed in situations where no sales tax was collected, then try reading 35 ILCS 105/3 as an example of one state's use tax.

Hmmm. Seems there's a subtle flaw in your argument, unless I'm very much mistaken (which you will surely point out). In CA it looks as if the Use Tax is only applicable to the seller, not the buyer.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/sutprograms.htm

Or am I just completely off base again?

AlphaTech
Apr 30, 2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Hmmm. Seems there's a subtle flaw in your argument, unless I'm very much mistaken (which you will surely point out). In CA it looks as if the Use Tax is only applicable to the seller, not the buyer.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/sutprograms.htm

Or am I just completely off base again?

I wonder if that also holds true in MA... hmmmmm

dblissmn
Apr 30, 2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by ftaok
How does one determine the "value" added by the last step? Is it the mark-up by the vendor from his supplier? Seems to me like it would be pretty easy for a vendor to get his supply from his own distributor and thus add very little "value".

But I'm sure they've thought of this and put in some other language preventing this. Those sneaky law-makers are always one step ahead (most of the time).

NOTE - no offense intended to the law-makers that may or may not frequent this board.

I believe (I may be wrong) that European VAT is levied WHEN value is added to a product, not on the proportion of value added. What this means is that the end user pays, say, 17.5 percent in Britain; but if you're a business, a corporation, or self-employed, you don't pay the tax at all because you're using the product to enhance the value of something else that you're selling. In contrast, US sales tax is levied all the time even if it means the item effectively gets taxed more than once; sheet steel from factory to middleman and sheet steel from middleman to car manufacturer. As a result it is pretty much unavoidable unless you're a nonprofit (or using mail-order across state lines:D ) Overall, though, I still think the US sales tax ends up being slightly lower than VAT.

AlphaTech
Apr 30, 2002, 10:16 PM
dblissmn, not quite for the US... business have tax numbers that allow them to get materials without paying tax on them. If you are making the final product, then the buyer pays the sales tax, and you send it in. About 90% of businesses have tax numbers, to avoid paying sales tax. If I buy steel to make blades (did it before), as well as handle materials, etc, with the tax number, I don't pay tax on any of it. When I sell the finished product, I have to charge sales tax, and then turn it into the state. Otherwise prices would be inflated beyond belief.

dblissmn
Apr 30, 2002, 10:21 PM
Thanks, Alpha. And so now we know -- definitely a huge advantage tax-wise for sales tax over European VAT even with the more limited business/government/self-employed user exemptions here. I guess we have more exemptions than I thought we did.

monkeydo_jb
Apr 30, 2002, 11:32 PM
Alright, I'm gonna go for the new powerbook. Does anyone know if that Brenthaven backpack is any good? Sounds cool and would be useful as a student.... Oh and is there anything else I need for it, being my first mac?

-jeff

Chris Fam
May 1, 2002, 02:35 AM
I think I will probably buy the new TiBook 667 as my second Mac after nearly 4 years I bought my first PPC 7220/200. Some of my concerns are that the fan noise and heat problem that I heard from current PB G4 users. anyone know if these issues already solved?:)

moby1
May 1, 2002, 03:53 AM
I just got to play with one of the new 800MHz PowerBooks tonight at the local Apple Store. They had both the 800's & 667's in but had not put the 667 out yet.

I set up some Quicktime movies to play simultaneously and keep looping. I used to have a 550 & this would eventualy heat up the area around the power button. I am very happy to say that although the 800 got warm it was noticeably cooler that the previous 550's & 667's.

We turned the new PowerBook over and there is something new there. There's a new panel about the size of the battery cover but located near the opposite corner but closer to the middle. I don't know what it's made of but it's a different material from the case...possibly some sort of heat sink?

I only had a few minutes to play with it before closing time but an Apple associate also pointed out that the speakers have been improved. I noticed an improvement over the 550/667 speakers and the crappy 400/500 ones.

Alll, in all a very 'cool' update indeed. Now, should I go for the 667 or really stretch my budget for the 800?

M1

moby1
May 1, 2002, 03:54 AM
I never heard the fan come on...!

: )

Grufi
May 1, 2002, 05:55 AM
Thanx for your report moby. If apple kind of solved the heat problem, then why don't they tell us officially? Even on the dev pages they don't give any precise info about the processor.
Hmm, anyway - i just ordered the 667.

dblissmn
May 1, 2002, 07:01 AM
If Apple indeed solved (or alleviated) the heating problem, I'm going to have to seriously consider buying the new 667. That had been one of my big concerns; I'm in the market for a laptop and have until now been considering the 12 inch iBook. The new features like the higher res screen, DVI support and good cache architecture finally give me some reasons to go for something fancier (along the lines of features that might actually enable me to keep the book for longer than I would have otherwise); solving the overheating and adding the regular audio-in would remove some of the deterrents against buying a TiBook.

I hope some people can post about their experiences with the new Powerbook G4 (DVI) with regard to overheating, fan noise and also the usual TiBook issues (key grunge rubbing off on the screen, case flexing, that kind of stuff) to see if anything else has been improved.

lunDisc
May 1, 2002, 08:03 AM
Is it confirmed that the springTi don´t use the Apollo chip (because Apollo does not support L3???)
In Norway we have 24% tax......(ultimate Power Book tops out on 4700$)
Im ordering a 667 with 512 (about 3300$), it would be nice living in the States, I also have to wait moore than 4 weeks to get it here. To bad, I want it now...











power mac G4-400MHz-PCI

ftaok
May 1, 2002, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by lunDisc
Is it confirmed that the springTi don´t use the Apollo chip (because Apollo does not support L3???)
In Norway we have 24% tax......(ultimate Power Book tops out on 4700$)
Im ordering a 667 with 512 (about 3300$), it would be nice living in the States, I also have to wait moore than 4 weeks to get it here. To bad, I want it now...

power mac G4-400MHz-PCI There are two different Apollo chips. Both are currently at 1Ghz, according to Motorola. These are the 7455 and 7445. The 7455 consumes more power, but has support for up to 2MB of L3 cache. The 7445 is more power consumption friendly and doesn't support a L3 cache.

This leads me to believe that the TiBook DVI are using 7455 Apollo chips.

Perhaps the 7445 will be used in the eventual G4 iBook.

mcrain
May 1, 2002, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Hmmm. Seems there's a subtle flaw in your argument, unless I'm very much mistaken (which you will surely point out). In CA it looks as if the Use Tax is only applicable to the seller, not the buyer.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/sutprograms.htm

Or am I just completely off base again?

The use tax, even in California, is by its very nature a tax on the consumer's right to consumer or use a product in that state. California's tax is set up so that retailers are required to collect the use tax owed by the consumer and then remit it to the state. I am not a Cali lawyer, so I'm not familiar with all of the intracacies (sp??) of thier laws, but I can say that there is a provision for an individual to pay use tax when products are bought overseas. I would assume a similar provision exists for products purchased out of state where no use or sales taxes are paid. I would suggest that you check with your state's revenue department.

As for the comment bu Matthe, "so, do you think we should pay taxes when we can avoid to do so? or do you believe in the justness of your profession?"

The Supreme Court has clearly said that you are under no obligation to set up transactions to pay the most tax possible. In fact, you are allowed by law to set up transactions in whatever lawful way you want to minimize your tax obligation.

That being said, if you do things that are illegal, and get caught, then you will pay a price (penalties and interest, plus the possibility of criminal action).

Best advice is pay the taxes you owe. Second best advice is make sure you have plenty of extra money and a good lawyer if you get caught. I can tell you the cost of lawyers, penalties and interest are way way way way way way more than any tax savings you might get. (As I have seen, even if your tax savings are huge).

Anyway, sorry for the side-discussion, but I wanted you all to know that when you buy stuff off the internet, that doesn't necessarily mean you are avoiding the obligation to pay tax.

mcrain
May 1, 2002, 10:13 AM
Note: I'm not a California lawyer, so I can not, and will not provide advice re: California's tax laws. However, I can say that California's rules are different from many other states when it comes to interstate sales and the application of California's use tax.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/reg1620.pdf

Again, I suggest that if you have a question about the applicability of the tax, you contact the California Board of Equalization or whatever it is called.

Grokgod
May 3, 2002, 01:46 AM
but does the 7455 use less power than the chip that was in the previous 667?

AlphaTech
May 3, 2002, 08:15 AM
One way or another, I am getting my new TiBook today. I will report back as to how sweet it is. :D

edesignuk
May 3, 2002, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
One way or another, I am getting my new TiBook today. I will report back as to how sweet it is. :D

oh...the envy! :cool:

drewbam
May 3, 2002, 05:41 PM
I am typing this on my two year old Dell Inspiron 5000. Next week, I will be typing on my new 800MHz TiBook. It's been about 12 years since I bought my last Mac, and I can't tell you how good it feels to be an Apple man again. YeeHaww! Thank you Apple!!

King Cobra
May 3, 2002, 05:48 PM
Wise move on the switch, drewbam.

Sooner or later, you will become a true Macrumors forum poster :)

Isn't it great that whenever comes out with a really cool product (iMac G4, iPod, Powerbook G4) we get word of people switching? Makes me feel right at home, where there are at least five Macintosh computers and, interestingly enough, an old PC we never use!
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

AlphaTech
May 3, 2002, 07:14 PM
I'm loving the new TiBook... now I just need to install all the software I need onto the new drive. I will be putting my 60GB TravelStar into an external enclosure next week (or when it arrives). With that, I will have a total of about 170GB of storage (both inside and outside the laptop).

I am really impressed with the crispness of the new TiBook's screen. All I need to do now, is give it the game test, after I put the 512MB of RAM into it (will yield me 768MB :D ).

greg6028
May 4, 2002, 01:08 PM
I just purchased the 667 with DVD/CD drive (no burner) 3 weeks ago?
Now the 800's are out. What is the difference between my computer and the new 800?
I know about the resolution and the ability to hook up the flat displays - but what about speed?
I was very disappointed on how long it takes to start up my G4 vs. my old G3 Pismo PowerBook!!

Greg

gopher
May 4, 2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by greg6028
I just purchased the 667 with DVD/CD drive (no burner) 3 weeks ago?
Now the 800's are out. What is the difference between my computer and the new 800?
I know about the resolution and the ability to hook up the flat displays - but what about speed?
I was very disappointed on how long it takes to start up my G4 vs. my old G3 Pismo PowerBook!!

Greg

Get Pacifist, freeware to update prebinding to improve the speed of Mac OS X, and Macjanitor the file to run the nightly cleanup functions if you leave the machine overnight. By the way, if you purchased a new TiBook since December 2001 it should have a CD burner built-in but not DVD burner.

The new TiBook just released has a DVI port instead of VGA, a Sound in port instead of IrDa port, a 32 MB of DDR VRAM ATI 7500 card, instead of the old 16 MB of VRAM ATI card of the previous model, and more level 3 cache. It is able to do extended desktop to DVI, VGA, and ADC displays (Apple's current LCDs are all ADC only), whereas the old one could only do that to VGA displays, and it comes with a DVI-VGA adapter, but not a DVI-ADC adapter which is still a separate purchase. This is true of both the 667 Mhz and 800 Mhz models just released.

Rower_CPU
May 4, 2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by gopher
... and more level 3 cache...

Previous models didn't have ANY L3 cache.

AlphaTech
May 4, 2002, 05:52 PM
Rev A had a 8MB Mobile Rage video card, Rev B had a 16MB Mobile Radeon video card, and the Rev C has a 32MB Mobile Radeon 7500 video card. The Rev C display also supports 1280x854 resolution native. Both speed Rev C models use PC133 memory, where before either both, or one used PC100 memory.

jelloshotsrule
May 4, 2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violating the law. Try that defense out the next time you try to get out of an obscure traffic ticket.


so if i were to pull onto a road that is say a 45 mph zone, and i think it's 55. so i'm going 55 and the cop pulls me over before i'd seen any signs that it was in fact a 55 zone. i am fairly certain that he'd at least consider letting you off.

and in the case of some sort of obstruction of a sign (or a sign down or something) as well. i know people who have been in such situations and have gotten out of the ticket.

it seems to me that the issues should be clearer regarding the use tax. not to say that people should not have to pay it, but it should be clearer if they do. in any case, i think that ignorance CAN be a legitimate reason for commiting a "crime", depending on the circumstance. (not necessarily tax related)

AlphaTech
May 4, 2002, 06:43 PM
I was able to talk my way out of a ticket about a year and a half ago by being calm and understanding the cop's end of things. He let me off with a 'warning' and no ticket (or anything).

As for taxes, some merchants are willing to help you work around them. I am not going to name any, since I don't want to get any of them into hot water. Most of them are small stores that are willing to go the extra few steps to make the customer happy, and coming back.

As my father used to say, it is our god-given right to avoid paying as much/many taxes as possible. It's part of what this drove our fore-fathers to tell the Brit's where to shove it and to get the hell out. :D

gopher
May 4, 2002, 07:04 PM
OK, if you feel like you don't want to support our military yes there is something about the ethicalness of that, but other than our military our government gives us all these great support services:

1. libraries
2. the largest employer in the country.
3. education
4. public use land
5. weather forecasting
6. support for pilots flying in bad weather and at night, as well as in
visual weather conditions
7. infrastructure of interstate highways.
8. infrastructure of railroads
9. major financial supporter of our mail service which still is the cheapest in the world.
10. environmental cleanup efforts that reclaim land.
11. emergency rescue from natural disasters.

If you stopped paying taxes, eventually you'd be leading to an eradication of all these useful services and much more. You may not see the government every day, but it is there when you are in need. Now if you think we should be taxed differently that's a whole different story. But the money must come from somewhere.

c-ker
May 7, 2002, 04:25 PM
If someone with a new TiBook would be so kind as to run PPC Checker available at xlr8yourmac, it will indicate which CPU is in it.

The software returns the PVR code that Motorola posts on their site.

7455, Apollo 6 2.1 0x80010201

If the code begins 0x8000, it's the Vger, aka 7450/1.

AlphaTech
May 7, 2002, 05:23 PM
Here is what I got off my 800MHz TiBook... I am in OS X now, and it launched into classic mode...

c-ker
May 7, 2002, 05:53 PM
:D

Bingo! 7455 Apollo. Thanks!!!

Rower_CPU
May 7, 2002, 05:56 PM
So, Alpha, what have you noticed about the differences between the B and C models, now that you've had it awhile?

Graphics, heat, performance, etc.

AlphaTech
May 7, 2002, 06:03 PM
Rower_CPU, actually, I was on a rev a before... Speed is greatly enhanced on the rev c model... When I fired up classic mode, it came up in less then half the time that it did on the rev a. I would even say it's faster then the G4 733 tower I have at work (pre-Quicksilver).

I do know that the new model is silent, except when both fans are running, when just one is spinning, it can barely be heard. I will be performing another UT test later. I have never tried to get a fps count in UT, so I'm not 100% sure where to enable that feature. I will be doing some scanning over the weekend (booting into OS 9 to do that) and I will let you know how it compares to how my G4 500 tower performed.

All in all, it screams compared to the 500MHz that I had before, and the display is vastly improved (brighter, cleaner, clearer).

One sweeeet laptop :D worth the money.

Rower_CPU
May 7, 2002, 06:12 PM
I was afraid of that. ;)

Maybe I can start making donations at the sperm bank to start raising some dough...:rolleyes:

AlphaTech
May 7, 2002, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I was afraid of that. ;)

Maybe I can start making donations at the sperm bank to start raising some dough...:rolleyes:

LMAO!!

Don't forget the blood bank too... If you have a rare blood type, you might be able to get more that way. Personally, I like to keep the red stuff inside me as much as possible. The white stuff, well, as long as she wants it... 'nuf said :D

I got my TiBook from the Computer Loft (www.computerloft.com). They took my 500MHz rev. a in trade towards this one, which made it a hellofalot easier to do. Contact them and see what you can get for your current system. You might be on your way to the new one faster then you thought. :D

Rower_CPU
May 7, 2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
...I got my TiBook from the Computer Loft (www.computerloft.com). They took my 500MHz rev. a in trade towards this one, which made it a hellofalot easier to do. Contact them and see what you can get for your current system. You might be on your way to the new one faster then you thought. :D

Yeah, I saw you post that before...how easy do you think it would be, considering I'm on the West coast and not the East?

AlphaTech
May 7, 2002, 06:23 PM
Call them and find out. I did ask if they did it though shipping/mail and I believe that they do. I had eyelikeart in mind when I asked, and stated that I had someone out of state that might be interested in doing the same thing I did. If you have the Applecare plan on your TiBook, you will get more for it (I did, and did).

They are a small company, and would like the business, and good word of mouth, so I have a feeling they will do what they can to make you happy.

Rower_CPU
May 7, 2002, 06:27 PM
Thanks...I'll give 'em a try!

Grokgod
May 7, 2002, 08:57 PM
Did you say two fans?
There are two now , wasnt there one in the older version.

So is the heat issue still going well.?

Does the two fans comeon alot, or one or what?
I am so confused about this, there is so little information on these subject.

have you tried photoshop on it, I need to know, puhlease.

Elan0204
May 8, 2002, 12:07 AM
Has anyone with the new 667 run this test? I saw Alpha's response about the 800, but I was wondering if they had changed the chip in the 667 too.

c-ker said...

If someone with a new TiBook would be so kind as to run PPC Checker available at xlr8yourmac, it will indicate which CPU is in it.

The software returns the PVR code that Motorola posts on their site.

7455, Apollo 6 2.1 0x80010201

If the code begins 0x8000, it's the Vger, aka 7450/1.

monkeydo_jb
May 8, 2002, 09:35 AM
AlphaTech-

To get a fps readout in UT start a match, press tab, and type timedemo 1. It should give you a reading. It might not have a space though.....



-jeff

c-ker
May 8, 2002, 11:29 AM
a user at appleinsider.com ran CPU Checker on a new 667 and got the same result: Apollo 7455

jthrasher
May 8, 2002, 01:23 PM
Woooohooooo!!!. I got my 800 a couple of days ago. AWESOME. simply awesome.

AlphaTech
May 8, 2002, 01:50 PM
Does anyone else with the new TiBook (667 or 800) have any pixels stuck on white?? I noticed one when I started up UT the other day, and was wondering if anyone else has seen any. I will be contacting one of the local Apple Stores, or AASP's, in the area to see if it is within tolerances or not. If not, I would MUCH rather swap the hard drive, and my 512MB memory chip to a new one then have to ship it to Apple for repair.

mcrain
May 8, 2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Does anyone else with the new TiBook (667 or 800) have any pixels stuck on white?? I noticed one when I started up UT the other day, and was wondering if anyone else has seen any. I will be contacting one of the local Apple Stores, or AASP's, in the area to see if it is within tolerances or not. If not, I would MUCH rather swap the hard drive, and my 512MB memory chip to a new one then have to ship it to Apple for repair.

I've seen stuck pixel questions in other threads, and from what I recall the news wasn't good. I think the tolerences required a certain number clustered together or a certain number throughout the screen before Apple would replace or repair. Be sure to let us all know what Apple says.

pwfletcher
May 8, 2002, 04:42 PM
I just ran PPC Checker on my new Ti 800 that I bought two days ago at the Apple Store in NB, CA. It says "PVR = 0x80010201". Does that mean that it is an Appollo? In addition, yes it has two fans, but neither of them have turned on yet and I have been up and running for three days straight (using photoshop on basic graphis as well).

c-ker
May 8, 2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by pwfletcher
I just ran PPC Checker on my new Ti 800 that I bought two days ago at the Apple Store in NB, CA. It says "PVR = 0x80010201". Does that mean that it is an Appollo? In addition, yes it has two fans, but neither of them have turned on yet and I have been up and running for three days straight (using photoshop on basic graphis as well).
------------------------

Yes, per the PDF "PPCPVR" available at Motorola, it indicates Apollo 7455.

buffsldr
May 8, 2002, 10:18 PM
So is this a good, bad or indifferent thing?

Rower_CPU
May 8, 2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr
So is this a good, bad or indifferent thing?

Good. Very good.

The Apollo chips have Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology which drops power requirements and operating temperature.

madamimadam
May 8, 2002, 10:56 PM
I know with the studio/cinema displays you have to have 10 dead pixels before Apple will look at it

I know because I have 1 and it pissed me off big time

Originally posted by mcrain


I've seen stuck pixel questions in other threads, and from what I recall the news wasn't good. I think the tolerences required a certain number clustered together or a certain number throughout the screen before Apple would replace or repair. Be sure to let us all know what Apple says.

mc68k
May 9, 2002, 12:58 AM
Totally unrelted but I'm glad we could beat that silly "travis thread" with a real thread about apple related stuff. Go team MR!

AlphaTech
May 9, 2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
I know with the studio/cinema displays you have to have 10 dead pixels before Apple will look at it

I know because I have 1 and it pissed me off big time



I was able to find a document and utility to test for dead pixels. Now I need to locate a magnifying glass so that I can see if it is just one bright pixel anomoly, or more then one... It appears that the testing utility will also let me know if the pixel anomoly count is high enough to warrant a replacement. I believe that is also up the the AASP to determine what course of action is taken for lower anomoly counts (be friends with yours and you could get better service ;) ).

mcrain
May 9, 2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
(be friends with yours and you could get better service ;) ).
Just so long as you don't have to follow the rules from the unwritten book of the road... (See Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back)

Rower_CPU
May 9, 2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Just so long as you don't have to follow the rules from the unwritten book of the road... (See Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back)

You follow the book? Ewwwwww...:D

britboy
May 9, 2002, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


I was able to find a document and utility to test for dead pixels.

is there any chance you could email me a copy of that utility, or tell me where i could find it? my email is britboy@halifax.rwth-aachen.de

imacguy
May 14, 2002, 12:04 AM
Hey everybody,

I just got my new 667 Tibook today... it is the new one with the L3 cache and 32 mb video card. It is just a bit of an upgrade from the old 266 Mhz iMac!!! haha... oh, and i am wirelessly surfing the net as well. What a deal, it is so exciting.

I would have gotten the 800 Mhz but i couldn't justify the extra $700 for just a hint more speed.

I will have to call Apple and complain though... for some reason they did not include the S-video cable, though the instructions clearly show it is to be included.

Also, my 1 is is rather loud when I press on it... It jammed the first couple times I pressed on it... Has anybody else had either of these problems? Thanks!

chibianh
May 14, 2002, 06:51 AM
hey imacguy,

congrats on the new Tibook! It's awesome, ain't it? Anyway, i was disappointed when they didn't include the s-video, but no matter, I can always get one at a later time. As for problems, none with mine so far and I got it on Friday. I haven't noticed any dead pixels or have the 1 key really loud on me. However, I am becoming an insomniac and am obsessed about keeping this thing clean! aaahh!

Anyway, enjoy your new ti!

AlphaTech
May 14, 2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by britboy


is there any chance you could email me a copy of that utility, or tell me where i could find it? my email is britboy@halifax.rwth-aachen.de

Sorry, no can do.

AlphaTech
May 14, 2002, 09:03 AM
imacguy and chibianh, I always go top end when it comes to laptops (and towers too, at least so far). Besides, I wanted the included airport card inside the 800MHz model. I also went for the base station deal, and the new one is much better then the old one. Besides the color differences (case and lights), it seems to transmitt better. My 2.4GHz portable phone still blocks the base station signal to my TiBook, but I use that as little as possible while I am online (which is most of the time when I am home).

The 800MHz model has a larger hard drive, as well as more installed memory then the 667MHz model. So you do get more then just a speed increase when you go for the faster one.

The 32MB Radeon 7500 is a sweet card, wait until you start gaming on it. :D I went from a Rev. A TiBook which had only 8MB via a Rage 128 video card, so this is a vast improvement.

sphereboy
May 14, 2002, 01:35 PM
DAMN ALL OF YOU! .. :D I'm still waiting for mine :(

I called Apple and told me 7 days from ordered date which was the 9th. I was hoping it would be sent out today or tomorrow, but they told me it would most likely go out next week.

I'm getting so anxious, it's driving me \:eek: \ CRAZY /:eek: /

I hope that is the standard answere they give everyone, and they send it out tomorrow so i can have it before the weekend.

agent302
May 15, 2002, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by c-ker
a user at appleinsider.com ran CPU Checker on a new 667 and got the same result: Apollo 7455

That was me :). I also confirmed it with a little tool in the Developer Applications (you have to download it separate tho) called Reggie which gave the same result, as can be seen here:
http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~danucsb/7455.jpg

Oh, and a cheap trick I just implemented to help cooling: rather than spend $30 on something like a Coolpad (which I still might do eventually), I have strategically placed four Arrowhead water plastic bottle caps under each corner of the TiBook to raise it and aid air flow, which in my informal observations has aided cooling (in addition to my actually opening the window to my dorm room to let a breeze in). A cheap cooling solution for the cash strapped.

gopher
May 15, 2002, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Does anyone else with the new TiBook (667 or 800) have any pixels stuck on white?? I noticed one when I started up UT the other day, and was wondering if anyone else has seen any. I will be contacting one of the local Apple Stores, or AASP's, in the area to see if it is within tolerances or not. If not, I would MUCH rather swap the hard drive, and my 512MB memory chip to a new one then have to ship it to Apple for repair.

A pixel or two stuck on white is not uncommon for LCDs manufactured today. Quite a few people have complained about them on the Flat Panel iMac, but if you go into any retail store that sells notebooks you won't find a single notebook whose screen is stuck pixel free. You have to remember each pixel has its own transistor. For fault tolerances of 1 : 1 million you are asking for fault tolerances better in some cases than parts on the Space Shuttle. And all of this from an LCD which costs $500 to start with. You can usually massage the stuck pixels to get them unstuck, though a massage may not have an immediate effect, though often the next day my Flat Panel iMac's pixel that might have been stuck is no longer. If you have a whole stream of pixels constantly stuck you may have a case with Apple repair. But only if it is more than 10 stuck pixels in an area the size of a dime.

sphereboy
May 15, 2002, 07:39 AM
It's on the WAY!!!

"PBG4/800/1024/60G/COMBO/AP/LL; 1 shipped on 05/15/2002 "

Oh my, oh my! Friday is the day

Mr. Anderson
May 15, 2002, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by sphereboy
It's on the WAY!!!

"PBG4/800/1024/60G/COMBO/AP/LL; 1 shipped on 05/15/2002 "

Oh my, oh my! Friday is the day

Congrats.

I have the 667 TiPB, got it in Novemember, and I have 1 stuck pixel. Its really not an issue, its hardly noticeable. And with the new screen having higher resolution, it will be even smaller. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

AlphaTech
May 15, 2002, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet


Congrats.

I have the 667 TiPB, got it in Novemember, and I have 1 stuck pixel. Its really not an issue, its hardly noticeable. And with the new screen having higher resolution, it will be even smaller. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

It is very small... about the size of a pin hole (if that big). I ran the lcd checker, and it is in the blue and green colors, but not red. It also shows up when the screen is black, hence the bright pixel anomoly.

Mr. Anderson
May 15, 2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


It is very small... about the size of a pin hole (if that big). I ran the lcd checker, and it is in the blue and green colors, but not red. It also shows up when the screen is black, hence the bright pixel anomoly.

I posted that mine was a bright/light green shade in another thread. Do you know the reason for that? Also, what's the lcd checker, I'd like to give that a go on my machine.

Oatmeal
May 15, 2002, 07:11 PM
My experience is with a desktop Mac, but have now fallen in love with the TiBook. To better compare with the desktops G4's, consider the Built to Order TiBook, with it's 1 Gig of RAM and 60 Gig HD. This Hard drive runs a 5400 rpm, compared to the 7200 of the Desktop G4's.

How well does this TiBook at this configuration compare to the desktops, in your opinion. This would be for personal use, of many tasks, ie Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc. No video asperations at this time. I understand where it will fall short, but I could instead buy the 933 or Dual 1Gig. A TiBook would be my Primary Mac.

This TiBook is being considered because I really like it in general, and it offers so much in such a compact form, as opposed to a Desktop, but, I do not require the portability of a desktop. It would be nice though. I've racked my brain on this, and need experienced input. This is, for the TiBook, lust, I suppose.

Thanks.

macstudent
May 15, 2002, 07:19 PM
This is one of the longest threads I have ever seen.

Does anyone know how long the longest thread on mac rumors was?

Beej
May 15, 2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by macstudent
This is one of the longest threads I have ever seen.

Does anyone know how long the longest thread on mac rumors was? Yeah the Travis thread is the longest, but this one is the most viewed.

I think the Travis thread was 242 posts long. We should flesh this one out past that... this thread deserves to be the longest thread - the Travis thread doesn't!

AlphaTech
May 15, 2002, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Beej
We should flesh this one out past that... this thread deserves to be the longest thread - the Travis thread doesn't!

Oh hell yeah!!!

madamimadam
May 15, 2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Oh hell yeah!!!

Well, I will support you guys AS LONG as you do it with quality content.... I can't stand some of the **** that has been posted here but I have to view it to be able to see the quality content.

Beej
May 15, 2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


Well, I will support you guys AS LONG as you do it with quality content.... I can't stand some of the **** that has been posted here but I have to view it to be able to see the quality content. Thanks for your support, dude. :D

I have to say, although there is a fair bit of junk in these forums, there is a lot less junk than at a lot of other places on the Internet. Bad posters tend to be scared off pretty quickly by the regular visitors.

sphereboy
May 15, 2002, 07:53 PM
:) I like this place.

madamimadam
May 15, 2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by sphereboy
:) I like this place.

I know I switched here because it was the only place that had ALL of the important information when it came out unlike other places that either had ****, irregular updates or missed out on some of the most important information.

sphereboy
May 15, 2002, 08:02 PM
I want an avatar too when I grow up :p

Beej
May 15, 2002, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by sphereboy
:) I like this place. Me too!
Originally posted by sphereboy
I want an avatar too when I grow up :p Me too ;)

The Travis thread is 243 posts long (I just checked.)

madamimadam
May 15, 2002, 08:12 PM
Well, I have a worthwhile question to push this thread over the winning line.

What are the differences between the RDRAM you see on PCs and DDR SDRAM?

sphereboy
May 15, 2002, 08:14 PM
:rolleyes:

King Cobra
May 15, 2002, 08:15 PM
I just checked a section among the forums for the longest thread:

http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=5135

I wonder if this will break that record.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

Rower_CPU
May 15, 2002, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
Well, I have a worthwhile question to push this thread over the winning line.

What are the differences between the RDRAM you see on PCs and DDR SDRAM?

RDRAM is also known as Rambus. It has a higher theoretical bandwidth than DDR, but due to it's high price initially it lost a lot of ground. DDR seems to have beat it.

sphereboy
May 15, 2002, 08:20 PM
Intel seems to keep supporting it and will so in their upcoming mobo's with 533MHz front side bus.

Rambus is fast. I have it on a Dell workstation and never had a problem with it.

Clean as a whistle.

madamimadam
May 15, 2002, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU


RDRAM is also known as Rambus. It has a higher theoretical bandwidth than DDR, but due to it's high price initially it lost a lot of ground. DDR seems to have beat it.

Coolies, thanks

Can't cost more than what Apple charges for DDR; have you seen it??? $US400 for 512MB.... what a rip off. Companies are suppost to be moving from regular SDRAM to DDR because the price difference is next nothing but, I tell you what, I would never pay $US400 for 512MB of regular SDRAM.

AlphaTech
May 15, 2002, 08:24 PM
Considering how DDR memory is at the following levels, PC1600, PC2100, PC2700 and it keeps getting faster (PC3200/3300 is on the horizon).

Anyone happen to know what the real speed of the rambus memory actually is?

madamimadam
May 15, 2002, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


Coolies, thanks

Can't cost more than what Apple charges for DDR; have you seen it??? $US400 for 512MB.... what a rip off. Companies are suppost to be moving from regular SDRAM to DDR because the price difference is next nothing but, I tell you what, I would never pay $US400 for 512MB of regular SDRAM.

I just checked, Apple charges $US450 to take a 256MB machine up to 1GB of regular SDRAM. So, for $US50 more than the price of 512MB DDR you can get a 512 and an extra 256MB SDRAM despite the fact that both are about the same cost these days.

AlphaTech
May 15, 2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
Can't cost more than what Apple charges for DDR; have you seen it??? $US400 for 512MB.... what a rip off. Companies are suppost to be moving from regular SDRAM to DDR because the price difference is next nothing but, I tell you what, I would never pay $US400 for 512MB of regular SDRAM.

Mohawk memory has a 512MB PC2100 chip for $160.

Everyone knows (or should) that Apple charges more for memory. That is one reason why get my memory elsewhere.