iTunes Movie Rentals Beyond 24 Hours

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the introduction of the new iTunes rental system (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/15/apple-announces-itunes-movie-rentals/), the 24 hour time limit on rentals has raised concerns about the inability to rent a movie one night and finish at the same time the following night.

When you rent a movie on iTunes, you have 30 days to start watching the movie before it expires. Once you start watching it, however, you only have a 24 hour window before it expires. Tidbits' Mark Boszko explored (http://db.tidbits.com/article/9462) the limits of this 24 hour rental window, and how Apple deals with this 24 hour expiration. Boszko tested various scenarios and found the following under iTunes:

- Watched a rental movie (to start the 24 hour clock), then started watching it again about 30 minutes prior to the end of the 24 hour window. The movie continued to play to the end beyond the 24 hour rental window.
- If you try to exit the movie once it has passed the 24 hour window, you will be greeted with a dialog that tells you if you don't finish watching the movie, it will be deleted.
- If you pause a movie before the 24 hour expiration arrives, you can still resume it after the window passes.*
- If you are watching past the 24 hour window, and try to pause the movie, you are told you must finish watching it or delete the movie.

While these tests were performed in iTunes, others have found the same behavior on iPods (http://www.macworld.com/article/131790/2008/01/longerrentals.html) and Apple TVs (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=436973).

*The exact length of the "pause window" is not known, but it appears it may eventually timeout and expire (http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=6604544#6604544) the movie.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/18/itunes-movie-rentals-beyond-24-hours/)

[mark2288]

24 hours is not sufficient. 36 would make it much more comfortable.

[FreeState]

24 hours is not sufficient. 36 would make it much more comfortable.

Id prefer more time as well - but I do also realize this is the standard set by the movie industry and not Apple - XBox etc all have the same 24 hour terms - its not Apple specific.

[dagamer34]

I think 48 hours is perfect. It's not like these rentals will be competing with Blockbuster of Netflix with the 30 day delay.

[nagromme]

And all just because the movie studios don't want to upset the Pay-Per-View services :o

I agree that 48 would be a nice incentive to get more people using this.

Another incentive: make it easier to browse what's available! I see the Top Rentals and I see SOME movies in the Browse categories, but I never know if I'm seeing everything. (If I am, then the initial 1000 have not yet all gone live.) And in Browse, you get movies for sale-only mixed in (I sort by Price to solve that--but you still have to pay attention to notice when the list changes to purchases). If there's a way to browse JUST rentals and ALL rentals I haven't found it.

[arn]

24 hours is not sufficient. 36 would make it much more comfortable.

Did you read the article? You essentially have more than 24 hours to watch the movie entirely.

arn

[MacFly123]

I think 48 hours is perfect. It's not like these rentals will be competing with Blockbuster of Netflix with the 30 day delay.

I agree. I just rented my first movie yesterday and it was awesome how it all works :) But 48 hours would be sweet... Come on Hollywood, pull your heads out of your a$$es, stop being Nazis and embrace your future revenue streams and technology!!!

I also wish we had the option to buy all these movies too with an extra fee, and that they could be DVD-Images like having the disk with all the menus, extra features, etc. As is stands now this has replaced me going to Hollywood video or Blockbuster but not buying DVDs when I want to own a movie.

[gr8tfly]

I tried the same scenario, and yes, it will play beyond the 24hr limit. As long as you start the movie before the end of the 24 hr period, you can watch the whole movie. I was able to pause, and even go back to beginning, as long as I didn't stop. This will cause the warning to appear, but gives you the option to continue viewing.

This might be pointing out the obvious to some, but I think others aren't thinking the 24hr terms through. It is actually very comparable to a "3-day" Blockbuster rental.

Night 1: Drive to BB get the movie (probably stand in line), start watching at 9pm. Night 2: didn't finish, so continue at 8pm. The next day, it must be returned - usually by noon (so it's not really 72hr anyway).

ATV rental: Night 1: Pick up remote, select movie and start watching right away (or say, within an hour for HD). Start watching at 9pm. Night 2: continue movie at 8pm. Next day: sleep in and don't worry about a trip back to BB to return it.

(note: It's been a while since I've rented from Blockbuster, so they might have changed their rental terms, so feel free to correct. I don't think I'm far off.)

edit: posted after arn comment re: >24hr (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4993348&postcount=6)

[tuneman07]

I think this is a great system- it certainly beats only getting one chance to watch it, or getting 24 hours to watch it after you rent it. Once you watch it why would you watch it again within 24 hours?

[MacFly123]

I think this is a great system- it certainly beats only getting one chance to watch it, or getting 24 hours to watch it after you rent it. Once you watch it why would you watch it again within 24 hours?

LOL, obviously you don't have a big family ;)

[ntrigue]

I discovered the 24+ rule until I pluggedin my iPhone and it forced the movie to quit.

Rentals should allow a weekend warrior to watch a movie Friday-Sunday as many times as they please. This is pay-per-view through iTunes. What's with the 30-day window? If I pay $3.99 I'm gonna watch it pronto not within 30 days!

[MacFly123]

Night 1: Drive to BB get the movie (probably stand in line), start watching at 9pm. Night 2: didn't finish, so continue at 8pm. The next day, it must be returned - usually by noon (so it's not really 72hr anyway).

Pretty sure all the rental places have a return deadline of midnight usually, but I get your point. I HATE returning movies and late fees. I seriously feel like a slave while I have the movie knowing that it is due, it is due, it is due lol.

[ZorPrime]

I guess I'm in the minority here... I'd prefer to have the rental expire after "Y" amount of views or One View for however long it takes me to finish the film or some combination of the the two... :o

[MacFly123]

I discovered the 24+ rule until I pluggedin my iPhone and it forced the movie to quit.

Rentals should allow a weekend warrior to watch a movie Friday-Sunday as many times as they please. This is pay-per-view through iTunes. What's with the 30-day window? If I pay $3.99 I'm gonna watch it pronto not within 30 days!

I think we all will, but why complain? You want them to shorten it??? Maybe somethings comes up and after a while it is still there ready to go without the clock started yet.

[kuebby]

Did you read the article? You essentially have more than 24 hours to watch the movie entirely.

arn

But you can't resume the movie after the 24-hour mark, which I think is what a lot of people, including myself would like, something like a 36-hour window.

OR, have a rental system where you can renew your rental for $.99 a day after the first 24 hours. This way if you try to go back after 25 hours you can finish the movie for $.99 instead of $3.99.

[tuneman07]

Anyone used this service before? Would it look good with a USB out to my TV? (its pretty big) I guess I'm wondering about the resolution and getting it on a 62 inch TV.

[MacFly123]

The other thing I noticed is Steve said they would have new releases 30 days after DVD release but I think there are some new releases on there that just came out on DVD, like "No Reservations". Didn't that just get released this week on DVD???

[ltldrummerboy]

I'm pretty sure I heard this over at iLounge a while back. Like a week ago.

[iVoid]

I discovered the 24+ rule until I pluggedin my iPhone and it forced the movie to quit.

Rentals should allow a weekend warrior to watch a movie Friday-Sunday as many times as they please. This is pay-per-view through iTunes. What's with the 30-day window? If I pay $3.99 I'm gonna watch it pronto not within 30 days!

Well, I imagine it's to allow for variable download times and also to allow people to download a bunch of movies and then take them on a vacation to watch over a couple weeks.

[Mac Fly (film)]

Apple and the studios made a mistake. They should admit it and extend rental period to 30 hours. Problem solved.

[mark2288]

Did you read the article? You essentially have more than 24 hours to watch the movie entirely.

arn

I read the summary you posted and yes, although you pointed out there are methods to go past the 24 hour window, the fact remains that there is a timeout that will hinder going too far past that 24 hour window. Thus, the practical window to watch a movie is still 24 hours. Although there are ways to prolong that window, the time gained does not nearly approach a more reasonable or desired amount. Right?

P.S.: Great job with this site. I absolutely love it. Thought I'd point that out here since you will probably check for a reply to your post...haha.

[gr8tfly]

Anyone used this service before? Would it look good with a USB out to my TV? (its pretty big) I guess I'm wondering about the resolution and getting it on a 62 inch TV.

There's no video out on USB. Choices are component or HDMI.

I have 50" from about 8' away. Even the <DVD quality widescreen TV shows (like Terminator: Sarah...) look pretty decent. The HD rental looks good - similar to 720P from DirecTV, but not as good as Blu-ray (which is no surprise). I've only rented one SD movie, and it wasn't a great test - 1975, low-budget grainy sci-fi ("Bug"), but sharpness looked DVD.

(sorry for bit of off topic....)

[termite]

The 24 thing, even with this loophole, is an absurdity! Does someone really think there's going to be a significant loss of revenue if the renter is give 72 hours? This is just utter nonsense. With Children and work interruptions in my life, I just can't plan my life this precisely and can never rent a video because of this. Netflix for the win.

[MacFly123]

The 24 thing, even with this loophole, is an absurdity! Does someone really think there's going to be a significant loss of revenue if the renter is give 72 hours? This is just utter nonsense. With Children and work interruptions in my life, I just can't plan my life this precisely and can never rent a video because of this. Netflix for the win.

I get what you are saying, but you can't sit down when you finally have time and start watching it instantly?

[mdriftmeyer]

I went to the Theater and spent over $20 with food and in the middle of the movie I left and came back 3 days later to discover my ticket was no longer valid.

These scenarios about 24 hours not enough time to watch a 2 hour movie is a joke.

Hello!! You spend more time bull****ing in Mac Forums than you do watching a movie.

[hotshotharry]

For those who cant understand why you would like a longer than 24 hour period to watch a movie! For you single people its likely not an issue. However for married people especially with kids its a necessity 90 percent of the time!

lets say friday night you get the kids to bed early so you start watching at 830, big plans to finish the movie ( providing the kids dont wake up and interupt and it ends up being too late to bother finishing it ) but you end up being too tired to finish it or whatever... so saturday night you try again but the kids dont go to bed til 9! well thats 24.5 hours and you have now missed out! starting the movie at 829 and putting it on pause is not an option!!!!

This is only 1 reason why 36 hour min rental would be fantastic, it would definitely sway me on those nights where your thinking, i dont know if i will finish it tonight ... etc

LOL and for those of you who say 24 hours is long enough thats great, then 36 shouldnt even be an issue worth discussing for you! lol someday you will be happy you have the option! 72 would be awsome.

Id also like to see an option to pay the difference and own the copy after you have rented it!

[AppleMojo]

Apple and the studios made a mistake. They should admit it and extend rental period to 30 hours. Problem solved.

No, not problem solved. You would simply get a different set of whiners.

Comcast OnDemand here in WA state is 24 hours to start and finish your movie. Years back with satellite (Direct) it was the same. We have Dish now, not sure what it is.

I don't mind the limit at all; if you don't like it, then don't use it... that's ultimately how you will show your dis-satisfaction with the service.

[termite]

I get what you are saying, but you can't sit down when you finally have time and start watching it instantly?

If I rent the Return of the King and a kid has insomnia? I can't watch in front of them and I lose.

If I rent the Return of the King and watch half (cause it's really long) one night, and an emergency comes up and I need to work late the next day, I lose.

So it just doesn't work for me. And I think being so very short at 24 hours makes a lot of people nervous about risking it. If there was a lot of profit lost by making it 72 hours I could understand the decision, but I don't see it.

[oshmac]

the 24 hour thing is lame... why not just allow 3 days and/or a limited number of viewings such as 3 or 4?

[termite]

These scenarios about 24 hours not enough time to watch a 2 hour movie is a joke.

Hello!! You spend more time bull****ing in Mac Forums than you do watching a movie.


Many movies are longer than 2 hours
Hard though it may be to beleive, you can pause Mac Forums for more than 24 hours without losing your place.
Parenting is not as predictable as you think.
My job involves actual responsibility. I can't go home just because it is quittin time.
I spend very little time in the Mac Forums, but thank you for playing.
While I would normally be happy to respond to a flame in kind (usually involving a "your mom" joke), this is supposed to be a more civil forum where such behavior is less tolerated, so I won't.

[quantumbits]

Personally, I'd like to have 48 hours. Sure, there are many movies that I only watch once. But occasionally I like re-watching parts of certain movies, especially any involving a twist.

[hotshotharry]

No, not problem solved. You would simply get a different set of whiners.

Comcast OnDemand here in WA state is 24 hours to start and finish your movie. Years back with satellite (Direct) it was the same. We have Dish now, not sure what it is.

I don't mind the limit at all; if you don't like it, then don't use it... that's ultimately how you will show your dis-satisfaction with the service.

Nothing drives me more crazy than this answer ....

Q> Why are movie rentals limited to 24hrs?

A> Oh because we have always done it that way!

WTF i dont care if its been that way since the beginning of time! No better time to change that then now!

If you are one of those who promptly spits out that ridiculous answer for everyone hear, your comment has been noted, and no further input is required. Have a nice day....

[dane989681]

Maybe one way to get around this 24 hour wall clock time is to instead time the 2X the movie length starting from when you begin watching and stopping anytime the machine is turned off. When the APPLETV is turned on again, the timer starts again.

There are a million ways this rental scheme can be made better and I expect Steve Jobs will make it happen.

If you think any of us are whining, then you truly don't know what it's like to have a family!:p

[csimmons]

I went to the Theater and spent over $20 with food and in the middle of the movie I left and came back 3 days later to discover my ticket was no longer valid.

These scenarios about 24 hours not enough time to watch a 2 hour movie is a joke.

Hello!! You spend more time bull****ing in Mac Forums than you do watching a movie.

You are my hero. Thank you for writing this.

The problem is not the 24 hour limit. The problem is poor time management.:eek:

[tuneman07]

3.99 is a bit high, the selection is terrible, I liked the idea initially but now that I found out I can't hook my computer to my TV via USB (why does the T.V. have a USB???) it seems kinda pointless. Bittorrent it is I suppose.

[AppleMojo]

Nothing drives me more crazy than this answer ....

Q> Why are movie rentals limited to 24hrs?

A> Oh because we have always done it that way!

If you are one of those who promptly spits out that ridiculous answer for everyone here, your comment has been noted, and no further input is required. Have a nice day....

lol - re-read my comment super-whiner... It was a simple mention that it's not just Apple who uses this length of time for digital rentals. Then I added, that this length of time doesn't bother me.

Nowhere in my statement did I defend it, nor say that it should be 24 hours or state "because we have always done it ... blah".

However, in my post I did mention whiners... and you do fall into that category.

WTF i dont care if its been that way since the beginning of time! No better time to change that then now!

Vote Obama then; I think changing this rental time was in one of his speeches lately. Waaaaaa

[gr8tfly]

why does the T.V. have a USB???

Camera or flash drive for photos.

[csimmons]

Many movies are longer than 2 hours
Hard though it may be to beleive, you can pause Mac Forums for more than 24 hours without losing your place.
Parenting is not as predictable as you think.
My job involves actual responsibility. I can't go home just because it is quittin time.
I spend very little time in the Mac Forums, but thank you for playing.
While I would normally be happy to respond to a flame in kind (usually involving a "your mom" joke), this is supposed to be a more civil forum where such behavior is less tolerated, so I won't.


1. Many movies are also shorter than 2 hours too. That's beside the point.
2. You block time to surf the net (and visit these forums), don't you? Or do you do it at work, where you're not really supposed to?;)
3. I'm married and have two elementary school age children. Parenting is indeed unpredictable, but can be structured such that parents can still have time for themselves to do other activites - like taking 1 1/2 - 2 hours out of an evening to watch a movie without pausing.
4. As a person with a job that involves responsibility (most jobs do:rolleyes:) you should know a thing or two about time management.
5. No comment
6. Did you really see the remark as a flame? Sounded like common sense to me.

To summarize: people should rent movies when they're fairly confident they have the time to watch it without distractions. If you need more than 24 hours to watch a 2 hour movie, the problem lies not with Apple, but with you. Spin it however you want, that's the nuts and bolts of it.

[AppleMojo]

I went to the Theater and spent over $20 with food and in the middle of the movie I left and came back 3 days later to discover my ticket was no longer valid.

These scenarios about 24 hours not enough time to watch a 2 hour movie is a joke.

Hello!! You spend more time bull****ing in Mac Forums than you do watching a movie.

Oh, this goes in my list of favorites... Great analogy!

I understand why people _would_ want more time, but these people also need to _understand_ business.

We live in a very self-interested world and this topic brings these people out of the wood work.

[termite]

4. As a person with a job that involves responsibility (most jobs do:rolleyes:) you should know a thing or two about time management.

Oprah lost or nearly lost most of a show once, and it was the fault of the software I work on (not my code -- a weak teammate's). Next time, I'll be sure to tell her company that I'm busy managing my time that I've blocked out for watching a movie and can't help right away.

[TatsuTerror]

Some people like to watch a two hour movie over two nights. Some don't. For those of you who are complaining about others wanting more time, maybe you should consider the fact that we are given 24 hours in the first place. With your logic we should be given three.

[csimmons]

Oprah lost or nearly lost most of a show once, and it was the fault of the software I work on (not my code -- a weak teammate's). Next time, I'll be sure to tell her company that I'm busy managing my time that I've blocked out for watching a movie and can't help right away.

Nice try. Really. Very cute.

The main gist of my post (and a couple of others here in the forum) still holds true: If you don't have - or can't find - the time to watch a movie without distractions, perhaps you should put off renting the movie until you can find the time.

[matticus008]

But you can't resume the movie after the 24-hour mark, which I think is what a lot of people, including myself would like, something like a 36-hour window.
The whole point of this article is that you CAN. You can sit down, rent the movie, start it, and be interrupted. As long as you pull it up and pause it before that 24 hours is up, you've got at least another 12 hours to finish it so long as you've started.

The thing is, stuff happens. It wouldn't be worth mentioning if it wasn't an inconvenience. Sometimes that inconvenience means that you get charged a late fee, or you have to pay a second time for On Demand, or you might miss a concert. Life is like that. No matter what period were placed on the rental, the "but my life is complicated!" excuse would still be floated.

I'd like a longer rental period, too, but if the worst I can say is "sometimes it might get deleted before I finish," well, then life is pretty good.
OR, have a rental system where you can renew your rental for $.99 a day after the first 24 hours. This way if you try to go back after 25 hours you can finish the movie for $.99 instead of $3.99.
There's nothing unreasonable about that. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

[Doctor Q]

My guess is that Apple made the "watch period" minimal in order to please and reassure the movie studies, and that they'll extend it past 24 hours once the movie studios relax their paranoia just a little. It's the same thing that already happened with iTunes DRM for music.

[jmooring]

Greater flexibility for consumers is a good thing (except when trying to choose a brand of toothpaste, perhaps). Sure, you may not need to take advantage of a larger viewing window, but it would be nice to have the option, wouldn't it? I'm on the fence about AppleTV and it's mainly because of the 24 limitation, workarounds notwithstanding. I bet they'd see more rentals and more revenue if they tweaked the model a bit.

[hotshotharry]

lol - re-read my comment super-whiner... It was a simple mention that it's not just Apple who uses this length of time for digital rentals. Then I added, that this length of time doesn't bother me.

Nowhere in my statement did I defend it, nor say that it should be 24 hours or state "because we have always done it ... blah".

However, in my post I did mention whiners... and you do fall into that category.



Vote Obama then; I think changing this rental time was in one of his speeches lately. Waaaaaa

It was a simple mention that "because everyone else does it" is not an opinion.

[ftf]

Seriously people!

You have 30 days, in which to start your 24hr countdown... for a $4 movie rental. Yes, life gets in the way and maybe you can't finish the movie. Well there goes a whole $4.

It's money you would have saved anyway, by not driving to the video store.

[tony-in-japan]

I tried the same scenario, and yes, it will play beyond the 24hr limit. As long as you start the movie before the end of the 24 hr period, you can watch the whole movie. I was able to pause, and even go back to beginning, as long as I didn't stop. This will cause the warning to appear, but gives you the option to continue viewing.

edit: posted after arn comment re: >24hr (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4993348&postcount=6)

Technically, can’t you just keep returning back to the beginning of the movie before the movie ends (before the credits) and keep it on a infinite loop?

[Vindu]

To summarize: people should rent movies when they're fairly confident they have the time to watch it without distractions. If you need more than 24 hours to watch a 2 hour movie, the problem lies not with Apple, but with you. Spin it however you want, that's the nuts and bolts of it.

It seems to me that Apple are losing some possible revenue here. There's Group A, who are happy with the 24hr timeframe, and will gladly pay up. There's Group B1, who are scared off by the 24hr thing, knowing that they might pay up and for whatever reason fail to see the whole movie and be burned. I guess there's also Group B2, who will pay twice for the privilege of watching the whole film on the occasional instances where they fall foul of the 24hr limit.

My guess is that the lost revenue from Group B1 is likely to exceed any extra revenue from Group B2. Moving up to 36 hours doesn't seem to me to cause any other sort of lost revenue, and would encourage repeat custom from the Group B1 people. Whereas, with the 24 hours, the Group B1 people will say "sod it" and just go without, or go to Blockbuster.

Therefore it would seem that Apple have failed to take full advantage of the available market.

cheers
Vin

[SeaFox]

I went to the Theater and spent over $20 with food and in the middle of the movie I left and came back 3 days later to discover my ticket was no longer valid.
What in interesting analogy. :)

I would also point out that Apple's movie rental service is supposed to be a competitor to Cableco VOD service, not NetFlix like everyone wanted. And when you're watching a VOD program, you only get use of the feature for 24 hours generally, whether you finish it or not.


Hard though it may be to beleive, you can pause Mac Forums for more than 24 hours without losing your place.
Not on this forum, when a topic's hot the conversation moves too fast. You can be behind 5 pages in just a couple hours. :p
My job involves actual responsibility. I can't go home just because it is quittin time.
I love how it's implied people who work on wage or have actual scheduled hours for their jobs are lazy and don't have to take responsibility for their profession. Perhaps our employers simply respect that we work to survive, and not the other way around. Or maybe we have jobs that simply can't be performed out of the workplace due to lack of equipment or information access.

[THX1139]

If you can't finish watching a movie within 24 hours, I feel sorry for you. It illustrates a lot of what is wrong with society today. People have so much crammed in their lives that they can't sit down for a few hours and chill. Once I start a movie, I finish it... unless it sucks. I can't imagine having to go back the next night to finish it, unless I start it over. But it has to be a good movie for me to to that! Some of you posters are actually asking for 3 days to watch a movie and I think that's borderline pathetic. If you can't find a few hours out of your week to enjoy a movie, then I suggest you examine your priorities and kick a few things off your to-do lists.

[cisco1138]

I understand why Blockbuster would limit the rental and then charge more if you keep it longer than the agreed amount of time, they need that DVD back so they can rent it again. VOD doesn't require anything back from us and I don't see how they will loose money if we keep the file a few days longer.

What if they offered "erase as you watch"? The part of the movie you have already seen goes POOF a minute after you view it, and they give you 30 days to complete the entire movie, but you will only get to view it once.

Just a thought...

[JonHimself]

I understand why Blockbuster would limit the rental and then charge more if you keep it longer than the agreed amount of time, they need that DVD back so they can rent it again. VOD doesn't require anything back from us and I don't see how they will loose money if we keep the file a few days longer.

What if they offered "erase as you watch"? The part of the movie you have already seen goes POOF a minute after you view it, and they give you 30 days to complete the entire movie, but you will only get to view it once.

Just a thought...

Then people will complain that if they had a time limit they could watch it over again, or someone else in the house could watch it over again. There really is no solution that everyone will be satisfied with (consumers and studios). I think 48 hours is a good limit, it gives you two nights while not letting you have a movie for a week. Then again, I'm ok with that, I'm sure that some people would see 48 hours as too restricting and others would argue that you shouldn't need more than one night.

[Padriac]

I personally tried the pause trick on the AppleTV with an HD (AppleTV) rental. When I tried to resume the movie 10 hours after expiration I was greeted with a "this movie has expired" screen.

[Padriac]

If you can't finish watching a movie within 24 hours, I feel sorry for you. It illustrates a lot of what is wrong with society today. People have so much crammed in their lives that they can't sit down for a few hours and chill. Once I start a movie, I finish it... unless it sucks. I can't imagine having to go back the next night to finish it, unless I start it over. But it has to be a good movie for me to to that! Some of you posters are actually asking for 3 days to watch a movie and I think that's borderline pathetic. If you can't find a few hours out of your week to enjoy a movie, then I suggest you examine your priorities and kick a few things off your to-do lists.

People with kids (especially newborns) really have no control over when they have free time or not... they fit it in when possible.

[gr8tfly]

Then people will complain that if they had a time limit they could watch it over again, or someone else in the house could watch it over again. There really is no solution that everyone will be satisfied with (consumers and studios). I think 48 hours is a good limit, it gives you two nights while not letting you have a movie for a week. Then again, I'm ok with that, I'm sure that some people would see 48 hours as too restricting and others would argue that you shouldn't need more than one night.

24 hours DOES give you two nights (see above. or, well, even the OP). If you start it before the end of the 24hr, you can complete the movie. You could start it the first night at 8pm, then start it again, at 7:59pm. The closest I've verified this was 30 minutes before the clock ran down, and it worked just as described here.

[ATG]

The 24 thing, even with this loophole, is an absurdity! Does someone really think there's going to be a significant loss of revenue if the renter is give 72 hours? This is just utter nonsense. With Children and work interruptions in my life, I just can't plan my life this precisely and can never rent a video because of this. Netflix for the win.
They aren't loopholes. Somebody coded that alert box, the pause timeout and the "please finish watching" notice.

I think an extra 6 hours would really help. THen you can start the first half at 8pm and finish the rest at 9pm the next day. Hopefully they will have extended it a bit by the time it comes over here.

[schimanke]

Hi there,

I have found a way to extend the 24h limit of a started movie over the complete 30 days rental time. You can read the instructions in my blog: http://www.schimanke.com/index.php?/archives/192-Two-tricks-for-iTunes-movie-rentals.html

Regards from Germany,
Flo

[kkat69]

If you can't watch a movie within 24hrs then DON'T RENT IT UNTIL YOU CAN!

Good lord, bunch of whiney babies.

[schimanke]

Good point! But if you use my method you can watch it even as often as you want during the 30 days period. I know that this is not what Steve intended with rental movies but hey, if you just want to watch it once, just do it! This is just an option for those who want to watch it several times or not just within 24 hours...

[Roller]

If you can't finish watching a movie within 24 hours, I feel sorry for you. It illustrates a lot of what is wrong with society today. People have so much crammed in their lives that they can't sit down for a few hours and chill. Once I start a movie, I finish it... unless it sucks. I can't imagine having to go back the next night to finish it, unless I start it over. But it has to be a good movie for me to to that! Some of you posters are actually asking for 3 days to watch a movie and I think that's borderline pathetic. If you can't find a few hours out of your week to enjoy a movie, then I suggest you examine your priorities and kick a few things off your to-do lists.

That would make sense if life were as predictable as you imply. The problem isn't the length of my to-do list - I can handle that - but rather the unpredictable events that take unplanned time.

You're also not accounting for the fact that different people in a household may want to watch a movie separately, on their own schedules. That's tough to do with the 24-hour limit, "pause and continue" notwithstanding.

[ScottFitz]

Or keep using Netflix and keep the movie how ever many days you want. 24 hour rental is a joke.

[symlink]

I don't even understand why there is a 24 hour window. Movie rental places need the movie back so they can rent it again - since its a physical disk.

However, with this system, they could easily give us 48 hours - and it doesn't affect anyone else.

[macFanDave]

Technically, can’t you just keep returning back to the beginning of the movie before the movie ends (before the credits) and keep it on a infinite loop?

My wife started watching the last hour of a movie starting at about the 23rd hour of our window. After it got to the credits, I rewound the movie to near the beginning to recheck facts and catch dialogue I missed the first time. I guess I went about 10-15 minutes past the deadline with no interruptions. When I stopped it, it said that the rental had expired and I could continue watching or let it go.

I guess, in principle, you could keep looping, but I'd guess that at some point, they'd cut you off.

[macFanDave]

While an extended viewing period (27, 30, 36, 48, 72 hours) is the best solution for the consumers, one must remember that Apple has to live by the amended version of the slogan, "The customer's always right*"

*except when the greedy, money-grubbing bastards at the movie studios say otherwise.

So, if those MoFo's want money, give 'em money!

Within one week of the end of the original rental, you can buy a 6-hour extension for $0.50. Buying the extension gives you another week to buy another one.

Why is this not great for everyone involved?

[StrongBad]

in my very humble (but very correct) opinion, the movie experience (plot, story, dialogue, etc) is lost if you stop the movie and restart it. As a film maker, I'd be PISSED OFF if you stopped my movie and came back 20+ hours later and attempted to follow the story. I bet you are the same people that ask questions in movie theaters ("is that the bad guy?" / "didn't she just leave him?")

I wonder how many people tried to take a several hour break in the middle of some great movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer, or Fight Club and when they were over, formed the opinion they just watched a bad movies since they weren't able to get 'lost' in it.

Welcome to America. Home of the "I don't have enough time to do my own lawn work, drive without talking on the phone, cook a real dinner, or watch a 2 hour movie". Land of the one hour photo, fast food, and 30 minutes or less.

I should move to Canada, eh?

[freeny]

Glad to hear about the lag time but i still have reservations that i will at least commit to "start finishing" in 24 hours.

I watch movies on my commute to and from work. At times it will take me several days to finish a movie. Sometimes im tired and dont want to finish a movie in consecutive days. even with the extended time I will feel pressured to to do so in fear of losing the movie i paid to watch.

Either extend the time to 48 hours or make it allow you to watch the whole movie once no matter how long it takes...

When a time comes up that I know i will finish the movie in one sitting i will try the service, but until then i feel it will be a gamble.

Apple needs to put in print exactly how the service works as far as warnings, lag time etc... until then its all just speculation on one persons experiments.

[CaptainHaddock]

I still don't get it. If I lived in a region where rentals were available (and I don't), how would enforcing a 24-hour limit make me more likely to rent a movie than a 7-day limit, or no limit at all? It makes me much less likely to rent. Do they think they'll make up the lost sales by tricking me into renting the same movie twice if I miss the first deadline?

In short, how does a 24-hour deadline make Apple or the studios more money? If a short deadline does have that magical effect, why not make it 12 hours? 6 hours?

Morons. Bit-torrent has no expiry date.

[twoodcc]

well that's nice to know. so you can kinda trick the system.

[njchris]

To summarize: people should rent movies when they're fairly confident they have the time to watch it without distractions. If you need more than 24 hours to watch a 2 hour movie, the problem lies not with Apple, but with you. Spin it however you want, that's the nuts and bolts of it.

Those people that the 24 hour window doesn't fit their lifestyle WONT be renting movies this way. That would mean potential revenue loss. Extending the viewing period to 48-72 hours would BRING IN more revenue. They can still limit the # of viewings if they want.

And just because you end your post with the "spin it however you want, that's the nuts and bolts of it" does not mean anyone with another opinion or idea is wrong. As if your say is the final word and anyone else is wrong no matter what.

I don't see why people push back so hard for having a longer window. I don't see why you are so against it. What harm would it be to your perfect ability to watch within 24 hours if it was longer? You can still watch it in 24 hours, since you handle time management so wonderfully. It will just let those other unfortunate slobs who can't have an option.

[mrrory]

This may be for another thread, but I rented Training Day in HD last night, started watching within a couple of minutes, but it was not surround sound... Very disappointing. It would be good if this information was available before downloading a movie.

[jettredmont]

You are my hero. Thank you for writing this.

The problem is not the 24 hour limit. The problem is poor time management.:eek:

No, the problem is an entertainment service requiring more precise time management than a huge minority of people possess.

There are lots of avenues for entertainment. Most of them let me live my life the way I see fit instead of requiring I block out a solid time interval to bask in their presence. Hell, even my books don't complain about getting 30 minutes of attention a night spread out over several months per novel. And they're an uppity lot.

Again: 2 hours is usually plenty to watch a 2-hour movie. However, a small yet significant fraction of the time, the movie needs to be cut short one day and completed one or more days in the future (more often 1 day in the future than multiple days in the future, but a similar ratio as above). Relying on a device retaining power and my foresight to pause rather than stop a movie on the first day adds risk to the issue.

[jettredmont]

If you can't finish watching a movie within 24 hours, I feel sorry for you. It illustrates a lot of what is wrong with society today. People have so much crammed in their lives that they can't sit down for a few hours and chill. Once I start a movie, I finish it... unless it sucks. I can't imagine having to go back the next night to finish it, unless I start it over. But it has to be a good movie for me to to that! Some of you posters are actually asking for 3 days to watch a movie and I think that's borderline pathetic. If you can't find a few hours out of your week to enjoy a movie, then I suggest you examine your priorities and kick a few things off your to-do lists.

Why would sitting passively absorbing the content of a movie take priority over, say, spending time with our children and at paying jobs? It seems that you are perhaps the one who should examine priorities.

[mozmac]

The other thing I noticed is Steve said they would have new releases 30 days after DVD release but I think there are some new releases on there that just came out on DVD, like "No Reservations". Didn't that just get released this week on DVD???

Yes, I was confused about that, too. Anyone else know why this is on there? Is the "30 days after DVD release" not being enforced? Or is it a term set on a movie studio basis?

[Doctor Q]

Technically, can’t you just keep returning back to the beginning of the movie before the movie ends (before the credits) and keep it on a infinite loop?I think the answer is yes. In that way, it's like the Netflix one-at-a-time plan, where you can watch one movie over and over but can't move on to the next one until you are done with the current one.

[JakeDTS]

first post!!

wait..its my first post. hello macrumors people!

I think 72 hours would be a good round number. I guess if its the way the industry is though there isn't much that can be done to change it?

I am gonna have to consider apple tv pretty hard I guess before I buy because movies in my life take the backseat to everything else(doing useful and productive things comes first)..I do like that they offer it for 30 days though because i dont think I've ever had a 30 day period where I didn't luck upon 2 free hours in a row at one point or another!

netflix was cool until you realize you only have the three movies at your house to watch and if you're not in the mood for those (or have a crap pc for streaming) you're out of luck.

you can still buy movies in the itunes store and watch them on Apple TV correct? maybe they'll do something like the "complete my album" thing they did with music where its like "you rented x movie and if you liked it enough to own it pay an additonal 5.99 and you get the download..who knows. I am constantly impressed by :apple: and what they come up with next so i'm sure its not gonna stop now.

[Gasu E.]

There seem to be two types of posters here:

A. People who think the window should be extended because they feel 24 hours is not convenient for them

B. People who think people in A. should change their lifestyles to accomodate the 24 hour restriction.

People of type B: are you, like, nuts?

[verity]

What if they offered "erase as you watch"? The part of the movie you have already seen goes POOF a minute after you view it, and they give you 30 days to complete the entire movie, but you will only get to view it once.
Oh no, that would be terrible. Not being able to rewind in case I missed some part of a conversation or want to check out the beginning again because something was there somebody missed? I can live with 24 hours for some movies I want to see that very evening, but not with a part of the movie going POOF on me.

[irun5k]

Wow, the apologists are out in full swing these days.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that while the 30 day window to start watching is fair, the 24 hr timeframe could accommodate a lot more people if it were 48 or 72 hours.

I can't fathom why someone would want to virulently defend something like this. It is hard to imagine what would be lost by extending somewhat beyond 24 hrs. It isn't like this move is going to put someone out of business or even make a tangible dent in anyone's revenue.

Constructive criticism and feedback are the tools that lets companies know how to fine tune their products and services. Believe it or not, when you own a business, you want this type of feedback. It is ultimately how you grow your business and appeal to more people. It is difficult to read minds.

[mdriftmeyer]

Many movies are longer than 2 hours
Hard though it may be to beleive, you can pause Mac Forums for more than 24 hours without losing your place.
Parenting is not as predictable as you think.
My job involves actual responsibility. I can't go home just because it is quittin time.
I spend very little time in the Mac Forums, but thank you for playing.
While I would normally be happy to respond to a flame in kind (usually involving a "your mom" joke), this is supposed to be a more civil forum where such behavior is less tolerated, so I won't.


You aren't paying for the Forums.
General movie lengths are just over 90 minutes. Several are 120 minutes and the rare exception is 180 minutes. I articulated the 2 hour time length as being what most long dramas run.

[quantumbits]

I wonder how many people tried to take a several hour break in the middle of some great movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer, or Fight Club and when they were over, formed the opinion they just watched a bad movies since they weren't able to get 'lost' in it.

Welcome to America...

I find it ironic that you chose Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer and Fight Club as your examples. IME, all of these movies begged for a repeat viewing upon the final resolution of the plot. This is precisely the reason why I will not patronize this service until Apple offers at least a 48 hour window. Sometimes I like to watch, ponder and watch again. I can do that with Netflx and Blockbuster. I can't with a 24 hour rental window...unless I'm content to sit on the couch for upwards of 5 hours in a single evening. But then you'd probably start b!tching and moaning about the incidence of heart disease and diabetes in this country. :rolleyes:

[TatsuTerror]

General movie lengths are just over 90 minutes. Several are 120 minutes and the rare exception is 180 minutes. I articulated the 2 hour time length as being what most long dramas run.Most movies are around two hours these days.

[kuwisdelu]

you can still buy movies in the itunes store and watch them on Apple TV correct? maybe they'll do something like the "complete my album" thing they did with music where its like "you rented x movie and if you liked it enough to own it pay an additonal 5.99 and you get the download..who knows. I am constantly impressed by :apple: and what they come up with next so i'm sure its not gonna stop now.

I think this would be an awesome idea. The 24-hour window thing is kind of annoying if I want to re-watch a movie before being done with it, but if I had this option, I could just buy it and watch it whenever I want (seeing as how if I liked it enough to re-watch it once, I probably liked it enough to re-watch it more than once). I really do hope they implement this, because then I might actually use it, and they would still be making money without compromising anything, so I don't see why they wouldn't.

[cisco1138]

You aren't paying for the Forums.
General movie lengths are just over 90 minutes. Several are 120 minutes and the rare exception is 180 minutes. I articulated the 2 hour time length as being what most long dramas run.

Don't forget to take into account the time it takes to browse the ITMS and initiate the download process, then wait for the download to buffer for a few minutes. A 120 minute HD movie might take 160.

(HD is the only format I will consider renting)

[Akira1980]

Here is what I would like.

30 Days to watch video, and you get to keep the video for 30 days after you watched it. Also, if you want to watch the movies you rented in the past, it will only cost $1.

:D

[jettredmont]

in my very humble (but very correct) opinion, the movie experience (plot, story, dialogue, etc) is lost if you stop the movie and restart it. As a film maker, I'd be PISSED OFF if you stopped my movie and came back 20+ hours later and attempted to follow the story. I bet you are the same people that ask questions in movie theaters ("is that the bad guy?" / "didn't she just leave him?")

I wonder how many people tried to take a several hour break in the middle of some great movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer, or Fight Club and when they were over, formed the opinion they just watched a bad movies since they weren't able to get 'lost' in it.

Welcome to America. Home of the "I don't have enough time to do my own lawn work, drive without talking on the phone, cook a real dinner, or watch a 2 hour movie". Land of the one hour photo, fast food, and 30 minutes or less.


That's me! How observantly erudite of you, to infer from my selfish unwillingness to put off the more "important" parts of my life to properly view Your Film that I would likewise actively seek to reduce everyone else's viewing pleasure of Your Movie, for, obviously, my aim is to attack in any way possible any and all enjoyment of Your Movie.

I bet you even knew that I trip old ladies in the street and steal candy from babies!


I should move to Canada, eh?

Perhaps!

Really, though, if how people watch Your Movie pisses you off so, then perhaps you should consider a career change. IMHO, the viewer has 100% right to control how and when they enjoy your entertainment.

For the record: I do my own lawn work (although at times it shows :) ), avoid talking on the phone while driving at all costs, enjoy home cooked meals (my wife is the far better cook than I, though, so I don't cook them myself), and haven't been to a one-hour photo in about a decade (I'd much rather spend the time in my "digital darkroom" getting the picture I want than handing it over to some pimply-faced machine operator who doesn't realize that the side of that house is really supposed to be white, not a pale green).

I just value ALL of those things, plus time with my children and a well-paying job, more highly than passively absorbing Your Movie. Which is why they can and will interrupt my viewing of Your Movie. If you feel that is outside your terms of service, by all means please post such on the cover of Your Movie so I can avoid violating your sense of decency!

In the meantime, a movie is a good way to pass a few hours if nothing else is going on. I tend to watch 2-3 movies per week (sometimes more, sometimes less), fitting them into my schedule where I can, because I foolishly enjoy the results of the efforts of file makers such as yourself. That doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that it should completely trump any and all other concerns in life while it is playing.

[StrongBad]

I find it ironic that you chose Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer and Fight Club as your examples. IME, all of these movies begged for a repeat viewing upon the final resolution of the plot. This is precisely the reason why I will not patronize this service until Apple offers at least a 48 hour window.

Rent it, watch it, return it (or let it expire), digest it.

Did your brain like what it just saw? Do you need a repeat view to understand? Buy it.

[StrongBad]

Really, though, if how people watch Your Movie pisses you off so, then perhaps you should consider a career change. IMHO, the viewer has 100% right to control how and when they enjoy your entertainment.

The viewer has just as much right to dictate their terms of viewing (and enjoyment) as I have in how I want my work seen and interpreted. Just as I have the right to drive my car with all the windows down and the AC on in December, I listen to the manufacturer's advice and roll up the windows and try the heat. While this right exists, I may be sacrificing some quality or feature along the way.

And, just as written lyrics in song are free to heard in any manner, they hold only one meaning to the author and were intended to be heard in a specific way. This is the optimal scenario. If the viewer decides to ignore the creators advice, the end product may suffer.

This is one reason forms of entertainment that require less thought or interaction do better monetarily. Simply put, true art in all creative mediums does not exist for casual consumption. So while you can eat a TV dinner and play with the dog while you watch 'The Godfather", I think Francis Ford Coppola might have envisioned it differently.

[THX1139]

Why would sitting passively absorbing the content of a movie take priority over, say, spending time with our children and at paying jobs? It seems that you are perhaps the one who should examine priorities.

I'm glad you feel that way, because you should be spending time with your kids instead of watching movies (or television). My priorities are fine... thank you very much. If I rent a movie and something comes up that keeps me from watching it, I just pay extra to keep the movie or return it. I don't whine about having to pay another buck or two if it works out better for my schedule.

[quantumbits]

Did your brain like what it just saw? Do you need a repeat view to understand? Buy it.

Er, I can have my cake and eat it too when I go the Netflix or Blockbuster routes: I can pay a fraction of the purchase cost AND I get to watch the movie a 2nd time if I'm so inclined. IOW, I don't have to subscribe to any such binomial nonsense (i.e. watch once or BUY! to watch twice). My original point stands.

[THX1139]

This is one reason forms of entertainment that require less thought or interaction do better monetarily. Simply put, true art in all creative mediums does not exist for casual consumption. So while you can eat a TV dinner and play with the dog while you watch 'The Godfather", I think Francis Ford Coppola might have envisioned it differently.

Well said. It's one of the reasons that "good" movies (movies that require thought and intelligence to appreciate) suffer financially at the box office. Nowadays, the general public doesn't have the intelligence or patience to sit in a dark room and think about what they are watching. They get distracted easily so if they want to watch a "good" movie, they wait for DVD and try to extend it over a 3 day viewing period. Oh, how that must suck! Imagine having to watch movies like Memento or Usual Suspects over multiple sessions. Of course, anything with Will Ferrel or Rob Schneider could be watched from the middle or even backwards and they would have the same value. ;)

[Hattig]

Well, it's better than "24 hour rental" physically (i.e., rent in the evening, return the next morning).

Still, I think it should be 36 hours, just to allow time the next night in case something comes up whilst you are watching the film.

30 days to start watching it is good though.

I like the idea of being able to pay a nominal fee to extend a rental once you start watching it, and keeping rentals on the system for a while after watching so you can re-rent and not re-download. I hope that these can be enacted once the movie studios stop being so paranoid.

[gnasher729]

There seem to be two types of posters here:

A. People who think the window should be extended because they feel 24 hours is not convenient for them

B. People who think people in A. should change their lifestyles to accomodate the 24 hour restriction.

People of type B: are you, like, nuts?

(B) is what is usually called a "straw man". A flawed argument that has been put up for the sole purpose of being torn down immediately, thereby apparently supporting the opposite argument.

The problem with the straw man argument is that it is considered to be intellectually dishonest, so when people see through it, your argument is lost.

[Doctor Q]

I'd like to see the 24 hours extended for my own convenience. The rental service would be worth more to me that way. If Apple charged a dollar more for the 48-hour version, I might accept that, but only if I could pay it after the fact and not have to guess up front whether my movie-watching will be interrupted on a given day. But I know that's not Apple's way. Apple prefers simplicity.

The tricks people have found may make it unnecessary to live with the 24-hour limitation, but Apple could close that loophole with a software update.

Meanwhile, the 30-day window is much wider than I need. Why bother renting it so far ahead? If I rent something I'm not planning to watch yet, there's a good chance my preference for what to watch will change anyway. If you had only 24 hours to start watching, I'd be fine because I'll rent when I'm ready to watch.

[Westside guy]

I know it's not Apple's fault - Amazon's terms for downloaded movie rentals are basically identical - but...

I've had too many Netflix DVDs end up half watched one day, then the rest watched several days to a week later, to believe the current rental scheme will ever take off. Maybe that's what the studios have in mind - it's a misguided attempt to keep the digital age at bay. But from an end-user point of view, this is very much anti-user-friendly.

Maybe young, single people just don't have as many interruptions in their lives? :D

[UCLA-Bruin]

I think parents of toddlers should circulate a petition. What would be such a big deal about making it 30 or 36 hours?

[pgwalsh]

24 hours is not sufficient. 36 would make it much more comfortable.
That's nonsense. There should be no time limit to watch the movie period. What they should do is allow you to rent 2 to 3 movies at a time - maybe more - and allow you as much time as you want to watch them pause it and come back 3 months later. However you can't rent additional movies once you've reached a download limit. Then you have to remove one of them in order to download/rent another.

Sometimes you think you have time to watch a movie and something comes up and you don't. Perhaps you started to watch a movie and you get a phone call that your uncle is in the hospital. Of course the movie doesn't mean crap at that point and you're off to the hospital. Well you shouldn't lose out because of this. You should be able to watch the movie, that you paid money for, three weeks later when Uncle John Doe is out and you have time.

Rental time limits are fine when you have physical media that comes from a store with limited quantity. But digital copies never need to be returned and therefore should never have a time limit to watch. Just a limit on how many you can rent before you have to remove one. Simple enough.

[Roller]

So while you can eat a TV dinner and play with the dog while you watch 'The Godfather", I think Francis Ford Coppola might have envisioned it differently.

Yup, Francis has a right to specify how and where his movies will be seen. But it's the consumers who will determine whether he'll be successful financially. With Apple TV, the marketplace will ultimately decide how it goes.

[jettredmont]

(B) is what is usually called a "straw man". A flawed argument that has been put up for the sole purpose of being torn down immediately, thereby apparently supporting the opposite argument.

The problem with the straw man argument is that it is considered to be intellectually dishonest, so when people see through it, your argument is lost.

It's not a straw man when it effectively reflects reality. Unless I'm misreading here, people saying we need to get our priorities straight and/or manage our time better because we occasionally don't have a solid 2-hour time window to watch a movie do, in fact, "think people in A. should change their lifestyles to accomodate the 24 hour restriction".

How is that a strawman?

[jettredmont]

Rent it, watch it, return it (or let it expire), digest it.

Did your brain like what it just saw? Do you need a repeat view to understand? Buy it.

Why? What advantage is there to have the disc sitting on a shelf gathering dust? Why not watch it again while you have it rented instead of buying it to watch it a second time?

IMHO, the trigger for buying a disc is the expectation that you'll want to view the movie again (multiple times) several weeks later and/or pass it around amongst family/friends. I have way too many discs sitting on my shelf which likely will not be watched again, ever, to see this (if you need to watch a second time to "get it", or want to watch a second time to see it from the perspective of the ending having been figured out, buy it) as good advice.

FWIW, I own Fight Club, and do watch it again on occasion (four o five times since I bought it). That's one non-regret in my DVD collection. This isn't because the "twist" made me watch it over and over again, but because it's a damned fine movie. Obviously, the "twist" only works the first time you see a movie.

[jettredmont]

The viewer has just as much right to dictate their terms of viewing (and enjoyment) as I have in how I want my work seen and interpreted. Just as I have the right to drive my car with all the windows down and the AC on in December, I listen to the manufacturer's advice and roll up the windows and try the heat. While this right exists, I may be sacrificing some quality or feature along the way.


Of course. Obviously movies are written and edited to be viewed in a solid chunk (without any obvious exceptions). How important this is varies from movie to movie, as you've noted.

Again, though the options available as I see them are:

1. I just don't watch movies, ever, because there is a ~10-25% chance they will be interrupted. At the very least, don't watch "good" movies, ever.

2. I reorganize my life so that disruptions of higher-than-0-priority do not ever occur (on a 1-100 scale, movie watching, as a form of passive entertainment, ranks in the 1-10 range of importance). This likely means selling my kids into slavery and quitting my job, and is rather unlikely.

3. I "re-prioritize" my life, realizing that movie watching is the One True Activity and therefore takes precedence over all the other possible disruptions in my life. While not sold into slavery, the kids will likely be somewhat upset by this, but of course they will understand. It's just not something I personally agree with.

4. I rent movies from a 24-hour rental place, and get dinged with having to re-rent the 10-25% of the time my viewing is disrupted.

5. I instead rent movies from a more flexible place at the same cost and essentially identical convenience (YMMV), and don't get dinged when 10-25% of the movies I watch are disrupted.

Both 4 and 5 acknowledge the reality that I will be disrupted in some fraction of the movies I watch, and of course I take likelihood of disruption into account when choosing the particular movie for the evening. Other than avoiding the medium altogether, or "changing my priorities" so that all interruptions take a back seat to the movie-watching experience, it seems #4 and #5 are the best options. From a money-wise perspective, and again with the major caveat that renting from Apple TV is generally no more convenient for me than Blockbuster (mail and store access), I'm obviously going to pick unrestricted over draconianly restricted.

Opening the "window" from 24 hours to something more reasonable (say, 36 hours even), drops the % re-rent ding to something closer to 1-5%, which makes the "convenience" aspects of AppleTV more compelling in some situations. Opening the window to ~1 week drops the penalty to significantly less than 1%, and then the convenience aspect becomes the decider between the two.

I'm sorry some people find this "whining". It all just boils down to a simple informed-consumer choice.

[BigHat]

Okay, I'm single and find the 24 hour limit to be a pain in the butt. You don't have to change diapers for this to be problematic. I have a crazy work schedule and heavy social engagments to juggle.

I have rented 4 movies thus far and failed to finish two of them. Both times I was unpleasantly surprised to see that I missed the 24 hour window.

Now, I'll be the first to admit this board has more than it's fair share of whiners and I don't consider myself to be one of them. I know the terms, I wasn't cheated, etc. My only point is that sometimes one gets home late and would like to watch a movie but needs to hit the rack before it's over. Other times, I"m tempted to switch back to broadcast TV to catch the election returns or the news, etc. Anyone ever get home so tired you dozed off during a movie? Sorry, I have.

IF Apple gave us 36 hours or so, I truly believe I would rent more movies from them than I plan to with this 24 hour rule in force.

By the way, don't give me this 24 hour pay per view analogy. I bet most people "Tivo" them and watch them much the same way as we'd like to with Appple TV.

[jettredmont]

I'm glad you feel that way, because you should be spending time with your kids instead of watching movies (or television). My priorities are fine... thank you very much. If I rent a movie and something comes up that keeps me from watching it, I just pay extra to keep the movie or return it. I don't whine about having to pay another buck or two if it works out better for my schedule.

The jest about you fixing your priorities was in jest, of course ...

In any case, first, it's not a buck or two if/when the movie gets interrupted: it's four. Four bucks 10-25% of the time increases the average cost of the rental from $4 to $4.40-$5, and the variability/unpredictability of pricing also obviously increases. This makes the service somewhat less compelling.

Again, though, while I may be "whining" here, in truth I would not whine about having to pay a buck or two more: I'd just avoid the service altogether. "Whining" here is a not-overly-effective way of making it known why Apple's not getting rentals, at least from me (and judging from the overall volume of complaints about this 24-hour window, I'd guess that this same reasoning applies to a significant minority of potential customers).

Note also that this very forum topic was about the 24-hour window having a workaround (which is nice, but doesn't make up for the fact that it is there), and the "whining" about the 24-hour window seems to be largely in response to comments early on about there being effectively no window at all. Again, it is helpful to remember that this workaround (keeping the movie paused for the day until you unpause it the next, making sure you don't switch over to watching photos or listening to music on your AppleTV, or turn it off, etc) doesn't really address the problem well.

In any case, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.

[hotshotharry]

I'd rather be called a whiner for expressing my terms than be a dense, closed minded ahole who calls people whiners for expressing their opinions.

People have every right to state their opinion that they'd like longer rental periods, too bad some people can't possibly understand this... It is them i feel sorry for ...

It would seem to me that the people who would like longer rental periods are of the vast majority, so when it finally comes, i dont want to see all you people who didn't want the longer rentals to come here and whine the rental periods are too long!!!!

until then ......

[schimanke]

The 7.6.1 update fixes my way to extend the 24h-limit (http://www.schimanke.com/index.php?/archives/192-Two-tricks-for-iTunes-movie-rentals.html) of iTunes movie rentals which I posted in these forums a few days ago... :-(

[dane989681]

Well at least you're finally trying to make a sensible argument now instead of your initial intolerant rant. For that alone this discussion was worthwhile! :)

[tonyshucraft]

Is this going to end up being a failure of a system.

WIth PPV's and VOD offered by most cable and satellite providers, is there a reason for this besides HD? I mean look at DVR's You can use them to keep the movies as long as you want. And you can always record onto your hard drive(At least I think it's legal but that would be like saying recording onto a tape from TV is illegal(same proccess, different device)

[pgwalsh]

Is this going to end up being a failure of a system.

WIth PPV's and VOD offered by most cable and satellite providers, is there a reason for this besides HD? I mean look at DVR's You can use them to keep the movies as long as you want. And you can always record onto your hard drive(At least I think it's legal but that would be like saying recording onto a tape from TV is illegal(same proccess, different device)Well I hope Microsofts, Vudu's, Apples, Netflix and anyone else's online movie rentals succeed. More competition and hopefully better pricing for the consumer.

With the internet and OTA tv, I have less and less reason to subscribe to cable or satellite. In fact, if I had a set-top-box that had access to all TV shows over the web in HD, I'd really be set, then I could just buy or rent whatever I wanted to watch. Perhaps we'll get back to the days where we can watch TV for free and the commercials pay for the programming with the ability to opt-out and pay to watch commercial free. Hmmm

However, this is all probably a pipe dream if we don't have net neutrality.

[TravisReynolds]

I like the pause option, that way you can watch it like over a week or so

[lawrencehare]

Well, the odds are that nothing will come of this but I am most disappointed by this ridiculous 24 hour requirement, thank the stars for NetFlix! Our kids are grown and gone but we sometimes work late, we dance, I am at the gym and we are often busy on the weekends. What I would like - VERY MUCH APPLE - is to be able to start a movie on, say Tuesday after dinner, watch an hour or so to relax before bed; can't finish it Wednesday as I am at the gym, but maybe Thursday if all goes well - if not, then I'll finish it Friday. But Apple says no!

I have a Home Theater, a fully wired house ready for downloading movies, and FIOS, T2 download speeds - all ready for movies, but with limits like this it will not happen - at least not from Apple. Why the Netflix model cannot be used I do not know. Let folks download a movie and then watch it whenever and over as many nights as they wish. Or if a limit MUST be imposed, let it be five days, a week.

It's like the iPhone. I was all ready to get one but if I cannot pop in a local SIM in Europe when I am over there, then why bother? Luckily there is Sony Ericsson.

I for one cannot see why these limits are imposed, are we criminals? And it seems to me that the Apple TV could easily ensure that a movie is not copied. Verizon works fine, I can record a movie and spend as much time as I want watching it on Verizon's DVR. I cannot copy it or duplicate it, and I don't want to.

I'd love to get an Apple TV and an iPhone, but with these seemingly arbitrary limits it shall not happen. It is disappointing and infuriating - and I do not think Apple is listening - sort of thing Microsoft would do, but there it is. Other companies DO listen and it is to them that my money will go, until Apple decides to listen to its customers and treat them like adults.

Lawrence

[matticus008]

Other companies DO listen and it is to them that my money will go, until Apple decides to listen to its customers and treat them like adults.
They listen to the studios, for sure. All digital rentals are 24 hours from everyone who offers them. If you're not going to be able to finish in a night and don't want to use the pause button, then you'll just have to continue renting actual discs, where the time limit is up to the rental store.

It's funny you should mention that they should treat its customers like adults; seems to me they are: don't buy something you don't plan on using, or take the consequences of that. I think there should be a $1 extend-the-rental option, but new releases are still 24-hours at most video stores, and people have dealt with that for 20 years just fine. The price of a rental and a late fee in 1990, adjusted for inflation, is more than double the current rental rate. Times have changed. Renting the movie is cheaper than going to it (by almost half exactly), and you can't pause a theater, either.

[davidy]

The way I see it is that you have a choice - Either buy a DVD for $15-$20, rent it from iTunes for $3.99 and accept their limitations, rent it from a video rental store with their limitations, or go to a theater for a current movie.

I realize that everybody's viewing habits are different but I would rarely start to watch a movie if I didn't project having enough time to finish it. True, there may be events that interrupt the experience but few of these are more than a few minutes (bathroom, make popcorn, etc.) Why should the event be any different from going to a theater? You go, you watch the movie from start to finish and then it's over.

The convenience of being able to take a break in the middle is the reason it only costs $3.99

I don't know of any movies that are as long as three hours. I think anyone can watch any movie in one evening without spreading it out over a second day.

[Burk]

Thanks for analyzing this issue. This 24 hour clock is a total deal-breaker for me. We can take a couple of weeks to watch a movie, watching a few scenes one weekend, then putting it aside for the week, then returning the next weekend. Great movies can be savored this way.

Apple should just do the netflix thing and allow rentals to last as long as you need to watch, and expire when you get more material. This model is still a fail as far as I'm concerned.