With people this stupid who needs enemies...

[ezekielrage_99]

I just read this is the Sydney Morning Herald web site (http://www.smh.com.au/news/people/did-911-really-happen-marions-not-so-sure/2008/03/03/1204402309406.html)

I really wonder how popular Marion Cotillard will be with American film producers after she said that and more to the point how many American films will she be making now? Silly arrogant French woman....

[geese]

Whilst I find some aspects of 9/11 a bit suspicious, I highly doubt that the US fabricated 9/11 because it was cheaper then knocking the towers down!

[Abstract]

She's a bit daft, yes. Her reason is what makes this so funny. ;)

[Bobdude161]

Does everyone in France think this? :eek:

[Stampyhead]

Why in the world does anyone care what she, or any other actor/actress, thinks? Just because you're famous doesn't mean we give a crap about your uninformed opinion...
Her building demolition theory was pretty funny, though, in a pitiful kind of way...

Does everyone in France think this? :eek:

What would make you think that? Does everyone in the U.S. think the same way about every issue?

[hakukani]

Actors--mannequins with egos.:cool:

[marykay9507]

It's interesting that she also questions men walking on the moon--

[skunk]

A couple of croissants short of a continental breakfast, poor lamb.

[iPhil]

A couple of croissants short of a continental breakfast, poor lamb.



It does seem like it.. ;)

[absolut_mac]

A couple of croissants short of a continental breakfast, poor lamb.

Took the words right out of my mouth - but with far more class and aplomb than I could ever muster.

[absolut_mac]

It's interesting that she also questions men walking on the moon--

Just as long as she doesn't say that within earshot of Buzz Aldrin....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKxAqpjroo

You might need to log in to see the video.

[PlaceofDis]

a bit clueless i guess. :rolleyes:

[Abstract]

Took the words right out of my mouth - but with far more class and aplomb than I could ever muster.

Ahhh......so there is a classy way to say "stupid".

[DAC47]

Wow a crazy actor
that's pretty much unheard of isn't it:rolleyes:

she should get together with Charlie Sheen

[Henri Gaudier]

Until the very last statement there's nothing wrong with what she says. There are many inconsistencies in the official story and it is healthy to question. If you look at everything that has come out, both fully and partially through the Freedom of Information Acts etc about mind control experiments or American plans to blow up an air line, blame Cuba, in order to create a reason to invade etc ... well all of these things were denied at the time. Some at the time would have questioned the veracity of the official line and the media would of portrayed them as insane or trouble causers etc but years later it's found to be all true! And is it that the papers and the media at the time were hoodwinked or were they part of the hoodwinking?

Former defence advisor to 2 American presidents, Zbigniew Brzezinski states in his book "THE GRAND CHESSBOARD - American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives," 1997.-

"For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... In that context, how America "manages" Eurasia is critical. Eurasia is the globe's largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world's GNP and about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)

She, as a European has every right to be concerned and critical of a country that advocates "dominating" the "prize of Eurasia."

Specifically back to 9/11 - in the Project for the New American Century it states “The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbour."

This was written 1 year before the pre-emptive attacks on the US. It's worth a puzzle over at least and I'd suggest a bit more. Anyway, there's too much to cover in the whole 9/11 Zionist war hawk debate but I think she, struggling in a second language, did okay until the daffy ending.

[OllyW]

Does everyone in France think this? :eek:


At least one of them does ;)


Until the very last statement there's nothing wrong with what she says. There are many inconsistencies in the official story and it is healthy to question. If you look at everything that has come out, both fully and partially through Freedom of Information Acts etc about mind control experiments or American plans to blow up an air line, blame Cuba, in order to create a reason to invade etc ... well all of these things were denied at the time. Some would have believed and the media would of portrayed them as insane or trouble causers etc but years later it's found to be all true.

Former defence advisor to 2 American presidents, Zbigniew Brzezinski states in his book "THE GRAND CHESSBOARD - American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives," 1997.-

"For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... In that context, how America "manages" Eurasia is critical. Eurasia is the globe's largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world's GNP and about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)

She, as a European has every right to be concerned and critical of a country that advocates "dominating" the "prize of Eurasia."

Specifically back to 9/11 - in the Project for the New American Century it states “The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbour."

This was written 1 year before the pre-emptive attacks on the US. It's worth a puzzle over at least and I'd suggest a bit more. Anyway, there's too much to cover in the whole 9/11 Zionist war hawk debate but I think she, struggling in a second language, did okay until the daffy ending.

[BornAgainMac]

Wow! I bet this wouldn't be the correct thread to defend the woman and her opinion. We need someone like Buzz to tell her the truth.
:eek:

[Counterfit]

Yeah, they didn't think of re-cabling and such when they built the damn things, so that's why they were knocked down less than 25 years after being finished.
And the Empire State Building is still standing why?

[stevegmu]

Does everyone in France think this? :eek:


Sadly, yes.

[Gelfin]

She, as a European has every right to be concerned and critical of a country that advocates "dominating" the "prize of Eurasia."

Specifically back to 9/11 - in the Project for the New American Century it states “The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbour."

Do not confuse the academic ramblings of "defense advisors" for a concrete foreign policy.

Right now there is somebody in Washington D.C. who is being paid real taxpayer dollars to come up with a contingency plan in the event we decide to invade Canada, just as there is someone in Ottowa making contingency plans for military action against the United States. There is no reason to believe that such a preposterous thing would ever happen, but the thinking is that if you have dispassionately thought through all such scenarios, no matter how preposterous they individually seem, the one in a million of them that actually comes to pass will not take us completely by surprise.

The nature of this kind of amoral strategic thinking is that it makes its practitioners sort of the polar opposite of a diplomat. To a man they come off as antagonistic and unsympathetic as they talk about the technicalities involved in invading an ally. The job of such advisers is to supply dispassionate analysis, not policy.

Note that from such a standpoint strong treaty relations firmly establishing U.S. influence with Eurasian allies could be considered a form of "domination" of the Eurasian political sphere. If the EU would rather do business with the US than with China, then that's "domination" and it has nothing to do with any implicit threat of the US bombing Paris.

[Don't panic]

in fairness, there is plenty of conspiracy theorists in the US, so the 'french angle' is in line with the 'freedom fries' crap.

or did you expect we had an exclusive on morons?

[ezekielrage_99]

http://www.tfhp.org/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Well not one person has posted this image yet... Kind of thought that it was appropriate ;)

[jb60606]

Up until the moon thing she, like many, brings up the same valid points from many conspiracy theories. I can't say I'm necessarily sold on them, but I keep an open mind and I acknowledge that our govt is more than capable of pulling off such an atrocity and have demonstrated so in the past.

But the thing about "America" blowing up WTC because it was more convenient is idiocy, and I hope to god it isn't common belief across Europe (if it is, I just lost respect for all of you).

The Sears Tower was built the same year and is managed by a company that has historically been in a seemingly permanent state of bankruptcy, though has always been maintained to state-of-the-art standards as have thousands of vintage buildings that decorate New York's and Chicago's historic skylines.

P.S. She gets plenty of movie offers from around the world. I highly doubt she'd care if she ever received another movie offer from Hollywood and alike. Besides, her EXTREMELY thick accent would probably negatively affect her chances of landing a leading, or even supporting role in american films. She can't seem to disguise it.

[killerrobot]

http://www.tfhp.org/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg


Is that Bill Gates in the background?

Being skeptical and not believing everything you read/hear/see is a good thing sometimes. But it does have its limits.

I wonder if she believes that she really exists.

[RedTomato]

Right now there is somebody in Washington D.C. who is being paid real taxpayer dollars to come up with a contingency plan in the event we decide to invade Canada, just as there is someone in Ottowa making contingency plans for military action against the United States. There is no reason to believe that such a preposterous thing would ever happen, but the thinking is that if you have dispassionately thought through all such scenarios, no matter how preposterous they individually seem, the one in a million of them that actually comes to pass will not take us completely by surprise.


If only this was actually true! Then maybe the USA would have had a better idea what to do after invading Iraq (both times).

As it was, the USA's foolish and clueless blunders successfully alienated the population they'd just 'liberated' (that welcomed the usa with flowers and applause), squandered what remained of the vast global public sympathy for the USA after 9/11, kickstarted a decade long anti-american resistance movement that has, if not global support, at least global commiseration, and looks set to be successfully wrecking the USA's own economy.

If there was any USA planning of what would happen post-invasion, as opposed to vague ideologically-motivated guessing of socio-political factors combined with grabbing of oil fields and military outpost locations, it's been hidden pretty well.

[Hello.there]

But the thing about "America" blowing up WTC because it was more convient is idiocy, and I hope to god it isn't common belief across Europe (if it is, I just lost respect for all of you).

:rolleyes: The feeling will be mutual if you make the assumption that an entire continent of different countries, ethnic groupings, religions, political beliefs, history etc, etc, etc, thinks as one. Idiotic beyond belief.

There's nothing new in her comments, those theories have been doing the rounds since September 11th (2001, obviously). I'm amazed some of you haven't heard them before? :confused:

I think most of the theories - and I've probably read them all (I like my conspiracy theories :o ) - are pure nuts, but I reckon the real fools are the ones who believe '9/11' was as it seemed. In fact, it astounds me that any American would believe that - your Government, like most Governments, hasn't been shy about lying to you before.

[Gelfin]

If only this was actually true! Then maybe the USA would have had a better idea what to do after invading Iraq (both times).

Okay, traditionally this is the case. The Iraq misadventure was a colossal cockup in so many ways, not least of which was subversion of the normal intelligence and strategic process so analysis no longer informed policy, but instead was dictated by it. One can only hope that this disaster will at least serve as a reminder to future executives why it is a bad idea for the President to tell intelligence people what he wants them to find.

[skunk]

I reckon the real fools are the ones who believe '9/11' was as it seemed. In fact, it astounds me that any American would believe that - your Government, like most Governments, hasn't been shy about lying to you before.Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the real story. I like a good story.

[Dragonfly47]

As it was, the USA's foolish and clueless blunders successfully alienated the population they'd just 'liberated' (that welcomed the usa with flowers and applause), squandered what remained of the vast global public sympathy for the USA after 9/11, kickstarted a decade long anti-american resistance movement that has, if not global support, at least global commiseration, and looks set to be successfully wrecking the USA's own economy.


It's a wonder we all don't move to London....

[Hello.there]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the real story. I like a good story.

I'm sure you do. My favourite was the one about Saddam Hussein being a friend of Al Qaeda, and therefore Iraq had to be invaded. Did you like that one too? Or do you prefer fact to fiction ;)

[skunk]

I'm sure you do. My favourite was the one about Saddam Hussein being a friend of Al Qaeda, and therefore Iraq had to be invaded. Did you like that one too? Or do you prefer fact to fiction ;)The occasional tidbit of verifiable, corroborated evidence is usually preferable to sheer propaganda.

[Hello.there]

The occasional tidbit of verifiable, corroborated evidence would be highly desirable.

Ah ha, you're come over to Hans Blix and my side - welcome! Truthseekers of the world unite! :)

[skunk]

Ah ha, you're come over to Hans Blix and my side - welcome! Truthseekers of the world unite! :)I'm not on anyone's side, least of all those who misquote.

[fridgeymonster3]

Her opinion is her opinion no matter how crazy it may seem. I on the one hand find it insulting since I am from NJ, right outside NYC, and know people who died at the twin towers in 9/11. My uncle, who worked on wallstreet, was lucky enough to survive and make it home. So, even though its her opinion and theory, it still stings others.

[aLoC]

What's so hard to believe that some guys could hijack a plane? No need for grand conspiracies to explain that.

[ezekielrage_99]

What's so hard to believe that some guys could hijack a plane? No need for grand conspiracies to explain that.

Ockham's razor, that's my theory ;)

Either way I find MC's opinion irrelevant, she can think whatever she wants to think but voicing it I find a bit tasteless.

[solvs]

Sadly, yes.

Of course they don't, but how did I know that you of all people would think they really do.

[obeygiant]

Of course they don't, but how did I know that you of all people would think they really do.

don't all frenchies look like this?

http://www.abfab.co.uk/Thumbnails/S21305.jpg

:D

[solvs]

don't all frenchies look like this?

No, some of them look like this:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_03/french_468x636.jpg

or this:

http://www.komar.org/bbq/bbq_grill_recipes/mcdonald-french-fries/mcdonald-french-fry.jpg

:p

[Iscariot]

I find it incredulous that people actually believe a government as startlingly inept as the Bush administration could pull off such an intricate and complicated conspiracy plot.

[Cecily]

I guess many of you aren't very familiar with guys like Alex Jones or radio programs like Coast to Coast. Try watching "End Game," "Terrorstorm," or "America: Freedom to Fascism" on google video. Go to www.prisonplanet.com or www.infowars.com and actually look up unfiltered news. You could even look up the video of Aaron Russo's historic interview, all of it is good.

In the Aaron Russo interview he talks about his friendship with Nick Rockefeller and how Nick told him eleven months in advance that there was going to be an event that would lead the U.S. to a "War on Terror." He by the way, made that movie America: Freedom to Fascism.

All of this is going to sound like a lot of hooey to someone who doesn't know any better, but the information is out there. Find information on the Bohemian Grove and how the elites go there for a few weeks out of the year and do mock sacrifices called "The Cremation of Care" to an ancient Babelonian owl god named Moloch. Look up the Bilderberg group and how government leaders go to secret meetings every year with tight security in complete violation of our nations law. All of the Clintons and all of the Bushes are members of both of these groups. No one does anything without these peoples say so. The say so from familes such as the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, both of which control the flow of money in their own countries. The Rockefellers in the US and the Rothschilds in the UK. What was being attempted by people like Hitler and Mussolini is now being done in secret by the same groups that these men were part of. Every war since WW1 has been financed by these international bankers. All to do the one thing that elites have attempted to do since before the days of Alexander the Great, rule and control the world. They've already started the European Union, the North American Union is almost coming to fruition with trade deals like NAFTA and KAFTA along with the NAFTA Superhighways. They're also at the same time trying to create an Asian union. They already have the trilateral commision set up which was made to deal with the three unions. They already have the UN which was created for the policing of "third world nations." Now theyre getting ready to issue out RFID chips in drivers licenses and ID cards. Issue date here in the US is in May of this year. Look up the REAL ID Act, it's all in there. The tyranny goes on too. Everything from the implimentation of Eugenics to the deliberate crash of the stock market. It's all out there.

[Counterfit]

I guess many of you aren't very familiar with guys like Alex Jones or radio programs like Coast to Coast. Try watching "End Game," "Terrorstorm," or "America: Freedom to Fascism" on google video. Go to www.prisonplanet.com or www.infowars.com and actually look up unfiltered news. You could even look up the video of Aaron Russo's historic interview, all of it is good.

In the Aaron Russo interview he talks about his friendship with Nick Rockefeller and how Nick told him eleven months in advance that there was going to be an event that would lead the U.S. to a "War on Terror." He by the way, made that movie America: Freedom to Fascism.

All of this is going to sound like a lot of hooey to someone who doesn't know any better, but the information is out there. Find information on the Bohemian Grove and how the elites go there for a few weeks out of the year and do mock sacrifices called "The Cremation of Care" to an ancient Babelonian owl god named Moloch. Look up the Bilderberg group and how government leaders go to secret meetings every year with tight security in complete violation of our nations law. All of the Clintons and all of the Bushes are members of both of these groups. No one does anything without these peoples say so. The say so from familes such as the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, both of which control the flow of money in their own countries. The Rockefellers in the US and the Rothschilds in the UK. What was being attempted by people like Hitler and Mussolini is now being done in secret by the same groups that these men were part of. Every war since WW1 has been financed by these international bankers. All to do the one thing that elites have attempted to do since before the days of Alexander the Great, rule and control the world. They've already started the European Union, the North American Union is almost coming to fruition with trade deals like NAFTA and KAFTA along with the NAFTA Superhighways. They're also at the same time trying to create an Asian union. They already have the trilateral commision set up which was made to deal with the three unions. They already have the UN which was created for the policing of "third world nations." Now theyre getting ready to issue out RFID chips in drivers licenses and ID cards. Issue date here in the US is in May of this year. Look up the REAL ID Act, it's all in there. The tyranny goes on too. Everything from the implimentation of Eugenics to the deliberate crash of the stock market. It's all out there.

I think the person who needs to do researching is you. The topic: Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor).

[Iscariot]

I think the person who needs to do researching is you. The topic: Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor).

Or the Cock-Up theory.

Seriously. We're attributed the ability to plan and execute a covert terrorist attack that would take years of planning, dozens of people, perfect execution and the disappearance of hundreds to an administration that blundered Hurricane Katrina and a government that can't get away with stealing files from a hotel or a blowjob in the oval office.

[Cecily]

It has been years in the making. The Bilderberg group has been around since 1954. Before that was the Bohemian Grove which has been around since the late 1800's. Before that you had the families. Rothschilds for instance, started off as oil tycoons in England. That was until he spread a rumor in advance to the stock market that Napolean had won the Battle of Waterloo, causing it to crash. He then bought up all the stocks and when news reached that Napolean had in fact been defeated, stocks went up. England then controlled Europe and Rothschild controlled England. That's just one family. One family of a dozen that heads the Bilderberg Group. This administration is nothing but a bunch of tools. Bush doesn't do anything without the say so of the Bilderberg group. Neither one of them did. The fact is that it doesn't matter who is in office, democrat or republican, because they both answer to the same people. The man who controls the money has all the power and it's the Federal Reserve in the US that controls the money just like the Bank of England in the UK. These aren't government run organizations. They're run by private bankers (Rockefellers) who pump out money that isn't backed by anything. The collapse of the economy is because of that. The money in the US is worth only .03 what it was worth when the Fed was introduced in 1913 all because of inflation from the over printing of money. These guys can print however much they want and in turn have bought out government. In the mean time we have our wonderful government borrowing more and more money from the Fed and taxing their citizens unconstitutionally to pay off the Fed which can never happen because of the interest on the money that was borrowed. They owe more money to the Fed than there actually is in circulation. So what do they do? They borrow even more money to have more money in circulation and the cycle continues. All of which is being done to wipe out the middle class so that their is a bigger division between the poor and wealthy. The Bush administration may seem stupid, but when you see that they're merely pawns and that their real motivation is a North American Union, they're not so stupid anymore. After all, they've managed to do all of their work without the majority of Americans having any idea of what's going on.

[Cecily]

I think the person who needs to do researching is you. The topic: Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor).

I agree with Hanlon's Razor. That doesn't mean it doesn't apply to what i'm saying. Most everyone involved with what's going on think they're doing something good. Almost all of them are uninformed. Evidence there is the Council on Foreign Relations. There are alot of people in the CFR, most of whom don't have a clue what the CFR is or does.

[Prof.]

I wouldn't doubt for a second that the US attacked its own people. I tend to believe that they did too. But that's just me.

[kymac]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6847507648836588010&q=9%2F11+site%3Avideo.google.com&total=6877&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1951610169657809939&q=9%2F11+site%3Avideo.google.com&total=6877&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

theyre pretty long. but get you thinking.

[solvs]

I find it incredulous that people actually believe a government as startlingly inept as the Bush administration could pull off such an intricate and complicated conspiracy plot.
That's just what they want you to think. :p

I guess many of you aren't very familiar with guys like Alex Jones
Most of us are very familiar with Alex Jones here, thankyouverymuch.


I don't know, I tend to go with Silicon Addicts sig here and say why suspect conspiracy if incompetence would achieve the same result. I'm not saying there aren't conspiracies, or that the gov isn't out to get you. There are, and though they aren't directly, they do have objectives that often come at a cost to the rest of us. But some of these things are so out there, they obfuscate from the real questions that are out there. And there are real questions. I mean, since when do those in gov not lie to us? I just don't think it's as complicated as this.

[Iscariot]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6847507648836588010&q=9%2F11+site%3Avideo.google.com&total=6877&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1951610169657809939&q=9%2F11+site%3Avideo.google.com&total=6877&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

theyre pretty long. but get you thinking.

I've seen Loose Change, Zeitgeist, and a few other 9/11 conspiracy videos. What they highlight more than anything is just how absolutely complex a conspiracy of this magnitude would be. The videos also each offer conflicting accounts from different eye witnesses, and there's not a shred of physical tangible evidence in any of this, nothing caught on video, nothing found or taken away, nothing.

Eye witnesses are totally unreliable. This has been the conclusion of numerous legal and psychological studies. Eye witness memory becomes even more unreliable under extreme stress, like say a massive terrorist attack with buildings threatening to collapse down on you. There are lots of problems with memory, being able to only distinguish between a few colors, storing perceptual information as narrative, and when reconstructing memories your mind fills in the blank between vague terms and definitions with information either previously known or with other memories. Speed, distance, brightness, loudness, all are distorted by personal perception and frequently incorrect when recalled. Memory changes over time, automatically including information learned after the event occurred and added to the reconstruction. Memory is too large to be stored, and is already filtered by perception, which in itself discards a lot of sensory data.

What's more credible: that a few human beings under unbelievable stress — humans who are almost totally unaccustomed to stress anywhere near this magnitude — have some fuzzy and jumbled memories, or that a veiled illuminati managed to topple two skyscrapers, cover it up with an elaborate ruse involving passenger jets, hide hundreds of passengers, silence hundreds of co-conspirators, and hide every single bit of physical evidence?

It's absurd.

I'm willing to bet that we're not getting the full story, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if someone other than Usama Bin Laden was responsible. But if there is any kind of cover-up, it exists partially to exploit this tragedy for the benefit of some, but above all else, to try and hide the incredible mismanagement and ineptitude that allowed for something like this to occur in the first place.

[Counterfit]

But if there is any kind of cover-up, it exists partially to exploit this tragedy for the benefit of some, but above all else, to try and hide the incredible mismanagement and ineptitude that allowed for something like this to occur in the first place.

Bingo.

[it5five]

Sadly, yes.

Are you engaging in the same behavior that you so often criticize others for supposedly doing? Of course you are!

I will keep this post in mind the next time you accuse anybody in PRSI of having an anti-American agenda just because they post something negative about the US. It doesn't surprise me at all that you have an anti-French attitude, and will gladly show it when the opinion of one French actress is posted.

[Fukui]

Okay, traditionally this is the case. The Iraq misadventure was a colossal cockup in so many ways, not least of which was subversion of the normal intelligence and strategic process so analysis no longer informed policy, but instead was dictated by it. One can only hope that this disaster will at least serve as a reminder to future executives why it is a bad idea for the President to tell intelligence people what he wants them to find.
Well, in all honesty though, thats in some ways how 9/11 was allowed to happen. People in the gov't CIA knew something was happening, but people ignored it. (This is isn't a conspiracy, its very well known that warning signs were ignored.) This is a systemic problem IMO of this gov't, and wasn't helped with the creation "homeland security." I mean, why all the restrictions on airflight, yet U.S's borders to the north and south are by comparison, wide open.....

[Iscariot]

Well, in all honesty though, thats in some ways how 9/11 was allowed to happen. People in the gov't CIA knew something was happening, but people ignored it. (This is isn't a conspiracy, its very well known that warning signs were ignored.) This is a systemic problem IMO of this gov't, and wasn't helped with the creation "homeland security." I mean, why all the restrictions on airflight, yet U.S's borders to the north and south are by comparison, wide open.....

To be fair though, the CIA has a very finite ceiling on what it can and can not do. As much as we can say in hindsight that there was some forewarning, the CIA likely had to deal with dozens of what would be considered similar-level threats from all over the globe. It was probably given the same amount of investigation and face time as all those other threats were, this one just happened to be more dire than most.

Having said that, it's just more evidence of a cover-up existing to hide what a monumental cock-up this was, and not conspiratorial in nature.

Your avatar is creeping me out.

[solvs]

Are you engaging in the same behavior that you so often criticize others for supposedly doing? Of course you are!

I will keep this post in mind the next time you accuse anybody in PRSI of having an anti-American agenda just because they post something negative about the US. It doesn't surprise me at all that you have an anti-French attitude, and will gladly show it when the opinion of one French actress is posted.
You can try, but I think you're being ignored too. ;)

To be fair though, the CIA has a very finite ceiling on what it can and can not do.
"Bin Laden Determined to Attack the United States" was on Condi Rice's desk and she ignored it, as did the rest of them despite Clarke saying it was imminent.

But yeah, I go with incompetence over conspiracy too.

[Les Kern]

Right. BushCo couldn't have pulled this off... because it WORKED.

[Fukui]

Your avatar is creeping me out.
Well, apologies for that lol... ;)

[aloofman]

Until the very last statement there's nothing wrong with what she says. There are many inconsistencies in the official story and it is healthy to question. If you look at everything that has come out, both fully and partially through the Freedom of Information Acts etc about mind control experiments or American plans to blow up an air line, blame Cuba, in order to create a reason to invade etc ... well all of these things were denied at the time. Some at the time would have questioned the veracity of the official line and the media would of portrayed them as insane or trouble causers etc but years later it's found to be all true! And is it that the papers and the media at the time were hoodwinked or were they part of the hoodwinking?


I give her credit for stating a conspiracy theory I'd never heard before. The idea that it cost less to demolish the towers than to modernize them is even more bonkers than I expected. Unfortunately, you can't give credence to the secret criminal conspiracy idea based on the fact that there have been other conspiracies in the past. That's an argument in favor of being skeptical, not for believing crazy theories.



Former defence advisor to 2 American presidents, Zbigniew Brzezinski states in his book "THE GRAND CHESSBOARD - American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives," 1997.-

"For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... In that context, how America "manages" Eurasia is critical. Eurasia is the globe's largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world's GNP and about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)

She, as a European has every right to be concerned and critical of a country that advocates "dominating" the "prize of Eurasia."


This is how all academics and foreign policy analysts write. Someone in France is discussing how to maintain their hegemony as we speak. And in the UK. And in China. And in other countries. Global politics demands that every country be constantly thinking about how to get the upper hand. That's not a sign of a conspiracy, it's a sign that people are rational (albeit often unsuccessful) policymakers.


Specifically back to 9/11 - in the Project for the New American Century it states “The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbour."

This was written 1 year before the pre-emptive attacks on the US. It's worth a puzzle over at least and I'd suggest a bit more.


There are always people out there contemplating how a catastrophic event would change people's worldview. If a meteor struck the earth, if a nuclear bomb destroyed a major city, if hackers paralyzed the telecommunications networks. All of these things are on people's minds. It's not necessarily suspicious if one of them actually does happen.


Anyway, there's too much to cover in the whole 9/11 Zionist war hawk debate but I think she, struggling in a second language, did okay until the daffy ending.

I think she knew exactly what she was saying. People just like conspiracy theories.

As for "9/11 Zionists", I'm sure there are some Islamic fundamentalists that would love to have you over for dinner.

[Eric Piercey]

There's a world of difference between being a conspiracy nutcase and being able to entertain the possibility of conspiracies. I find them fascinating. You'd have to be a complete idiot to buy what the mainstream corporate owned news is selling.

What Cecily said about the Fed is largely fact. I just don't understand what could be more compelling than facts. People need to read up. Are they engaged in a global plan to enslave the world? Hell, probably. Connect the dots... you can type money into a computer and it exists. The specifics are of course anyone's guess.. but all roads inevitably lead to control. Once you have infinite monetary resources there is no other path and there is no way that path will be ignored. Check out Freedom to Facism. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b9lpRc7hk4)

If you refuse to acknowledge the possibility you're being duped it's only matter of time until you are regardless of what may be the case now.


As for the thread title - wow talk about setting oneself up. Extremism is extremism. Outright mockery of one end from the other is just idiocy. Reasonable paranoia is healthy. It's called situational awareness.

[Counterfit]

What Cecily said about the Fed is largely fact. I just don't understand what could be more compelling than facts.

Facts according to who? We can't just take your word for it.

[fridgeymonster3]

Reasonable paranoia is healthy. It's called situational awareness.

Umm, not to burst your bubble, but "reasonable paranoia" is an oxymoron. Basically, paranoia is the distrust of others, society, a government that is not based on facts; whereas, reasonable means logical or rational, basically based on tangible facts. You can't use the phrase "reasonable paranoia" because it makes you look silly. You can say, people should have a reasonable amount of paranoia, or you can say that it is not unreasonable for people to be paranoid, but you cannot say "reasonable paranoia".

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Right now there is somebody in Washington D.C. who is being paid real taxpayer dollars to come up with a contingency plan in the event we decide to invade Canada, just as there is someone in Ottowa making contingency plans for military action against the United States. There is no reason to believe that such a preposterous thing would ever happen, but the thinking is that if you have dispassionately thought through all such scenarios, no matter how preposterous they individually seem, the one in a million of them that actually comes to pass will not take us completely by surprise.

It's "Ottawa." And we don't have a military.

[it5five]

You can try, but I think you're being ignored too. ;)



I'm absolutely positive I'm on his ignore list; he told me himself that he was putting me on it. My post was more for other PRSI-ers who made their way to Current Events/the inevitable move of this thread to PRSI.

[Eric Piercey]

Facts according to who? We can't just take your word for it.

The facts surrounding the coming into being of the US Federal Reserve as well as the fact that it's privately owned is well documented. The fact that the USD is fiat is also well documented. The US Federal Reserve is, not part of the US Government. These are the kind of facts I'm talking about. Simple, plain as the nose on your face facts that many Americans just don't know or care about. I'm not stating any conspiracies as facts.. God I won't make it that easy for you. My point was... you hand a group (any group) basically infinite resources and there's bound to be some corruption. That's what makes America special... that there are checks and balances, that people get voted in. Who's watching all the money though?

[aloofman]

The facts surrounding the coming into being of the US Federal Reserve as well as the fact that it's privately owned is well documented. ...The US Federal Reserve is, not part of the US Government. These are the kind of facts I'm talking about.

Actually the Federal Reserve system is part of the US government. It's intended to be independent and financially self-sufficient from the three branches of government because it relies on private and public funds to operate. It exists by federal statute, and Congress and the president can pass laws anytime to change how the Fed is run.

Now, one might argue that the Federal Reserve is so heavily influenced by private bankers and investors that it isn't independent at all and might as well be a private institution. But it is not privately owned.

[Henri Gaudier]

Aloofman - no I don't believe the demolition idea either but I was defending the idea that it's incorrect to say she's stupid as the original poster inferred. It's a bastard getting out exactly what you mean sometimes in a second language. Equally, how sincere was it and what kind of rag is the paper reporting? To traduce seems to be a matter of course today.

As for foreign policy advisers - maybe - but he's had the ear of plenty of Presidents and only America has shown that it is willing to practice this kind of statesmanship lately.

As for the Islamic Fundamentalist remark - grow up. I have no camaraderie with religious fundamentalists of any sort. The war on Afghanistan & Iraq is however a war created by Christians and Jews. Not all clearly, not even 0.000001%, but nevertheless, many of the prime movers were born again Christians - Bush & Blair - or Jewish/Zionists. Richard Perle, chief architect of the war and the then chairman of the Pentagon's Defence Policy Board, also adviser to Binyamin Netanyahu, was the principal author of a document called Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, he wrote that Saddam would have to be destroyed, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran would have to be overthrown or destabilised, for Israel to be truly safe. There are many more - Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Tenet, Dov Zackheim, Libby, Feith, Leon "Bud" Edney, JINSA, Abrahams, Cohen Deutch etc. etc.

Now before you start your knee jerk name calling - These men do not represent the views of all who share their ancestry or religious beliefs. I am not anti semitic. But these men did connive to bring war for a political reason and it wasn't the truth.

[aloofman]

Aloofman - no I don't believe the demolition idea either but I was defending the idea that it's incorrect to say she's stupid as the original poster inferred. It's a bastard getting out exactly what you mean sometimes in a second language. Equally, how sincere was it and what kind of rag is the paper reporting? To traduce seems to be a matter of course today.

Who knows? People believe a lot of crazy things and the media likes to report it when famous ones say it out loud.

As for foreign policy advisers - maybe - but he's had the ear of plenty of Presidents and only America has shown that it is willing to practice this kind of statesmanship lately.

I would argue that the U.S., as the country that's throwing it's military weight around lately, is only the most obvious about it. Every country engages in these games, usually in less blatant ways. Maybe the real problem is that the US government has forgotten how to be subtle about it. U.S. foreign policy also gets far more attention around the world (understandably) than other countries' do because it affects so many others.

As for the Islamic Fundamentalist remark - grow up. I have no camaraderie with religious fundamentalists of any sort. The war on Afghanistan & Iraq is however a war created by Christians and Jews. Not all clearly, not even 0.000001%, but nevertheless, many of the prime movers were born again Christians - Bush & Blair - or Jewish/Zionists....

Now before you start your knee jerk name calling - These men do not represent the views of all who share their ancestry or religious beliefs. I am not anti semitic. But these men did connive to bring war for a political reason and it wasn't the truth.

I was being somewhat facetious and should have elaborated. With some exceptions, when most people say "Zionist" these days, they're referring to some sinister Jewish cabal that's trying to rule the world. It's how anti-Semites often refer to Jews. My flip remark was that by referring to "Zionist" schemes, you're using a term that Islamic fundamentalists use.

[Henri Gaudier]

Cheers Aloofman - a very civil response especially after my snotty "knee jerk" remark.

[ezekielrage_99]

Right. BushCo couldn't have pulled this off... because it WORKED.

I was way a head of you, I've got my Tin Foil Hat on as I type (looks around for people trying to steal my thoughts).

[stevegmu]

Now before you start your knee jerk name calling - These men do not represent the views of all who share their ancestry or religious beliefs. I am not anti semitic. But these men did connive to bring war for a political reason and it wasn't the truth.

You may be on to something. I've read The Protocols...

[Henri Gaudier]

You may be on to something. I've read The Protocols...

?

[stevegmu]

?

You have never read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? It is about the Jewish conspiracy to rule the world.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

We all know, the Neo-Con movement was started by Jews...

[Henri Gaudier]

Yes, I've heard of it but the "You may be on to something" line suggests something else.

"We all know, the Neo-Con movement was started by Jews..."

The two people I've heard as the founding fathers of the NC movement were Kristol and Podhoretz.

The Times (UK) "Norman Podhoretz is the Godfather of the NeoCon movement"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2558296.ece

Mr Podhoretz is Jewish, studied Jewish theology and has received the Guardian of Zion Award from Bar-Ilan University.

Can't be bothered with Kristol.

I repeat ... I'm not an anti-semite but it is I believe irrefutable that some Jews have an agenda that they actively pursue. Of course they do. The question is whether you approve and of course, if you're an idiot, you may think Mr Goldberg the hifi repair man is in on it too! I don't!

[Counterfit]

but it is I believe irrefutable that some Jews have an agenda that they actively pursue. Of course they do.

I would posit that at least 3 members of any definable characteristic (sexual orientation, religion, political affiliation or lack thereof, social beliefs (anarchy, socialism, etc.)) have an agenda they are actively pursuing. So I guess that means yes, there at least 3 people pursuing the "gay agenda" so decried by, er, whoever it is that decries it (religious-right neo-cons?).

[Henri Gaudier]

I see what you are saying but it's a little disingenuous to draw this analogy. The death and sorrow this particular clique orchestrates for the betterment of Israel and the Arms/ Oil combine is of epic proportions played out on a world stage.

I'm not interpreting their intent through frustrated nazi goggles; it's spelled out for you when you read anything from AIPAC or JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs) and others. Factor in, Zionist sympathisers/Born Again end timers and the equation is much darker and more terrifying than three radical "puffs" dreaming of a breeder free world or whatever dark intent you hypothetically ascribe to the gay agenda to make your analogy partially work.

Lots of Americans are blind and deaf to this viewpoint because of some indecipherable umbilical chord between America and Israel. However, if the acts, words and intents stayed the same but the characters changed to Arabian ones - what a difference that would make to the public perception of the Neo Con credo.

[Gelfin]

To be fair though, the CIA has a very finite ceiling on what it can and can not do. As much as we can say in hindsight that there was some forewarning, the CIA likely had to deal with dozens of what would be considered similar-level threats from all over the globe. It was probably given the same amount of investigation and face time as all those other threats were, this one just happened to be more dire than most.

It wasn't just the CIA in this case. It was the New York field office of the FBI, mostly due to internal political games that led them to marginalize agents, leave well-connected informants to swing and ignore hard evidence from other field offices. I really do think Peter Lance's 1000 Years for Revenge should be required reading here. Indeed there was no conspiracy, but there were more concrete warning signs than vague "chatter." There is every reason to believe this should have been caught, and it was human incompetence that prevented that.

Increased surveillance would not have prevented 9/11. Monitoring every phone call and every e-mail would not have. Tighter immigration policies would not have; nor would tighter checkpoint security at Logan Int'l. Better communication between agencies might have been useful, but would not have prevented the attack. The people with the power to stop this had all the information they needed to stop this plot in plenty of time to do something about it, and they failed, primarily due to some high-ranking people attending more to preening their careers than doing their jobs.

It's "Ottawa." And we don't have a military.

1. Sorry for the misspelling. At least I didn't say Toronto.
2. Say what? You don't have a large standing army, but you do have a volunteer military force, and I assure you your country has defense advisors just like any other, and that those advisors suggest things that would sound ludicrous to the ordinary citizen, which was the point to begin with.

[Masquerade]

mr bush, please send a missile to this lady. thank you. god bless amerika Ç:P

[Iscariot]

1. Sorry for the misspelling. At least I didn't say Toronto.
2. Say what? You don't have a large standing army, but you do have a volunteer military force, and I assure you your country has defense advisors just like any other, and that those advisors suggest things that would sound ludicrous to the ordinary citizen, which was the point to begin with.

Yeah, if you'd said Toronto I'd mail you some tar and feathers with specific instructions. The relations between Toronto and Ottawa are so cold we've had a record snowfall this year :p

I don't know what the no military comment was about. Not only do we have a large military presence in Afghanistan, our special forces are some of the best trained in the world, and we have a long history of military participation in peacekeeping and the world wars.