Seeking Advice - Canon vs Nikon

[annapolitan]

I was reading some posts from last month in response to a man that asked about a Nikon D300 vs a Canon 5D. I have a completely different situation but essentially the same question. Any advice would be much appreciated.

My current camera is a simple p&s Canon SD800IS. I love it but am dissatisfied with excess noise in low light situations and I can't seem to correct it with any of the settings the camera has. So that is probably my biggest pet peeve.

I am currently what you might call a semi-pro photographer with high aspirations. My photos are published in my company's magazine nearly every issue. But most of those photos are taken with the company's Sony H5 (which I really don't like) or my Canon p&s. It's really time to upgrade and I'm considering the Nikon D300 and the Canon 5D. I like the "weatherproofing" in the Nikon since I do mostly boating photography on or near the water, but in my experience the term "weatherproof" doesn't mean a whole lot, especially when you're talking about the boating industry. ;)

But I also really like the full-frame sensor in the Canon 5D - and the kit lens is phenomenal. I've looked them both over at my local camera shop and the lens on that Canon would really be great for the kind of shooting I do most often.

Other photographers in my industry use Canons all the time but there are probably a near equal amount of Nikons. While it's probably more like sports photography than anything else, it's not the kind of fast action you see in a football game or something like that. Speed doesn't seem to be a huge issue unless you're the guy on the jetski trying to get the shot of a wave crashing over the bow of a sailboat in a big match race. I probably won't ever do that. Most of my current shoots are product testing on the water with multiple boats. I grab photos of boats wherever I can and hope to do more travel writing and photography in the coming years.

So I hope that's enough information for you photophiles to give me some much needed advice. :D

Thanks all!

On, one more thing - I have no lens collection that I plan to use (only some old Nikon lenses from the mid-1960's but they are only compatible with the D40x and I know I don't really like that camera). So I'm starting from scratch basically.

[Grimace]

The consensus for this question is usually, "go to a store and feel the two camera to figure out which you like better."

Both brands are strong and you really can't go wrong with either one. Look at the lenses that you might buy in the future (for your type of shooting) and see if there are stronger lenses in certain categories between the two brands. Check out www.fredmiranda.com/reviews for help on different lenses too.

[SubaruNation555]

Looking at each side-by-side might help with your decision and highlight features you like (such as fps):

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos5d%2Cnikon_d300&show=all

[annapolitan]

Thanks for the link. That's really helpful.

I've been to my local camera store a couple of times looking at both cameras. Though they are different I can't say that I prefer the feel of either one over the other. And the salespeople at both the local camera stores are pretty clueless, at least when I visit the store. I guess since everything has migrated to the internet, they no longer have to employ 'experts'.

I read on here somewhere that you're not just buying a camera body, you're buying a "system". Is there a general 'rule of thumb' for the Canon and Nikon lenses/system and the type of photography each is best suited for? I've seen some posts hinting at something like this but nothing that is very concrete.

If the bottom line is that I just need to make a decision and get on with it, that may be what I need to hear. But I can''t help but feel like I'm missing something...

[ChrisA]

I have no lens collection that I plan to use (only some old Nikon lenses from the mid-1960's but they are only compatible with the D40x and I know I don't really like that camera). So I'm starting from scratch basically.

I don't know how this could be. If you have an older Nikon lens it would work with a D300 but would NOT work with a D40x. I think you have it backwards. Either way, yes you are starting over.

How to decide between Nikon and Canon? I think you have to make a plan. Think of the lenses you might want to own. Make up a systems of body and 3 or 4 lenses and see which kit you like.

Nikon has the price advantage in some cases. Canon makes some lenses that Nikon does not. What may tip the scale is if you like Nikon'e flash or light meter system (which is better) or if you like Canon's auto focus. Or maybe there is a particular wide angle zoom lens that you "must have". I would not pick a brand based on a DSLR body because those have a short useful life span.

[Bootsie]

I would go full frame if you can.

I am definitely a Canon supporter, I have used both brands, and vastly prefer Canon I will probably never go back to Nikon. But that being said, they are both good brands, and you cannot go wrong with either of them. When you went to the store, which one felt better in your hands? I prefer Canon’s user interface because it was easier for me to get used to and learn. I have a 20D, and I absolutely love it.

This is a great forum for learning about Canons, and why we think they are better. :) Very helpful and informative people, they know a lot more than I do. ;)

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

[Hmac]

I'm a Nikon user, have never been impressed with Canon. Having said that, I acknowledge that their dSLRs are good and are capable of good images, and that their lenses are generally as good as Nikon's.

The 5D is a good camera, but it is two years old. If you're on the fence, I would get the D300 based on that alone, unless you want to wait for the 6D (or 5D Mk II, or whatever they're going to call its replacement), whenever that happens.

Full frame - I don't think that's any big deal at all. I currently use a full-frame Nikon D3, but never had ANY issues or disappointment with the 1.5x crop on all my previous cameras. I didn't buy the D3 for its full-frame, I bought it for its performance, ruggedness, excellent metering, really low noise, and really exceptional autofocus. I note that the D300 uses that same CAM3500 AF sensor as the D3.

Realistically, I think you would likely learn to be satisfied with either system. They are both very capable.

[OreoCookie]

If you say weather proofing is important, have a look at Olympus' E-3 or Canon's 40D in addition to the Nikon D300. Unlike its more expensive sibling, the 40D has weather proofing while the 5D has not. If you say you're boating, this strongly disfavors the 40D.

Olympus has an excellent reputation when it comes to weather sealing, they have a competitive lens line-up that covers the usual viewing angles.

Also, you've said that your pictures from a P&S and a pseudo-dslr are used for publication. Any of these choices will deliver far, far better image quality. The differences in image quality are mostly negligible in this class. If I were you, I'd base my decision on (i) handling and (ii) weather sealing. Note that only pro lenses have weather seals, so buying a Nikon D300 or a Canon 40D with an el-cheapo lens won't give you any weather sealing where it matters most (the mirror box).

As for point (i), there is no other way than trying. People won't be able to help you on this. I don't like Canon's UI, never have. I get along very well with (seemingly) any other brand of dslrs, I've owned Nikon and Olympus dslrs. But for some (twisted ;)) people it's the other way around. Try them.

Number (ii) means that you should give us a budget and we might suggest a few lenses to go with your camera. AFAIK only manufacturer lenses are weather sealed with a few (very expensive) exceptions.

[Hmac]

For any of these dSLRs, including the D300, the name weatherproofing is a significant overstatement of the camera's ability to withstand the elements. It's probably more accurate to say that these weatherproof camera are weather resistant to some degree. Note that a lot will depend on whether or not the particular lens being used is weather-sealed too. I have three professional-level Nikkors that I use 90% of the time, and of those three very expensive f/2.8 lenses, only one of them has the rubber gasket on the mount that constitutes "weather-sealing".

Having said that, I have had Nikon dSLRs out in some truly awful weather, from rainstorms to blizzards, to 5-foot seas in a Zodiac and I've never had a problem, but IMHO, I do feel like I've pushed my luck pretty far.

[cube]

http://www.komar.org/faq/camera/canon-40d-versus-rebel-xti-400d/weatherproofing/

[nutmac]

My only reservation for getting 5D now would be upcoming "5D Mark II" update. Although the rumor has been going on for awhile, some fake, two things are for certain. (1) Canon has updated every single cameras with many new features and refinements (e.g., DIGIC III, 14-bit RAW, sRAW, improved viewfinder, integrated sensor cleaner, faster continuous shooting, improved live preview LCD), except 5D. (2) It's been 2.5 years since 5D was introduced, which is an eternity for DSLR lifecycle.

[Ryan1524]

Can't really go wrong with either. They both have decently matched products at various levels. It comes down to in-hand feel, your preference towards their menu systems, and looks.

I own a Nikon D70s and can't be happier. (except maybe with a D300). ;)

[Grimace]

The 5D update will be out in the fall - in October. 3 years is the life cycle of the 1D(s) and 5D series.

That said, the 5D mkII (or whatever) update will be $3299 or more, the original price of the 5D. The current 5D can be found for just under $2000. What a frickin' amazing deal that is. It will always take phenomenal photos. You can wait for a screen that is .5" larger and a few other bells and whistles if you like. At $2k, the 5D is an AWESOME buy.

That said, the D300 is a good camera too. Nothing you buy right now won't take good pictures. The lenses matter more in the end.

[termina3]

Forget the term "weather-proofing" right now. If you think the camera's going to get wet often, then you'll want to spend big bucks on a submersible case... they're expensive, but when I hear "boating" I think "water".

[annapolitan]

While the weather-sealing is an issue, it's not huge. The boats I'm usually on are large enough that I don't get much spray, if any, at all. The biggest potential for water is immersion (and I'm very careful) and no amount of weather sealing would protect a camera from that. There's no way I would go out in 5-ft seas in a Zodiac. A 40ft sloop fine, but a dignhy? That's just terrifying. Impressive though!

My budget initially is about $3000. I can invest another $1500-2000 in the summer. Right now I can get the Canon 5D with the 24-105mm f/4L IS USM AF Lens for about $2750 or the Nikon D300 for $1800 plus the cost of a lens comparable to the Canon (whatever that would be).

I really like the Canon lens and it seems to have received great reviews. Can anyone tell me what would be the comparable lens for the Nikon?

I have to admit that the D300is technically superior in nearly every aspect. But the 5D's full-frame is really appealing. I wish I could say that I like the feel of one more than the other. But it's a total toss-up!

[Hmac]

There's no way I would go out in 5-ft seas in a Zodiac. A 40ft sloop fine, but a dignhy? That's just terrifying. Impressive though!

Yeah, well..it wasn't exactly on purpose. We had been poking around La Amiga island off the north coast of Haiti when the seas came up, and we got a little behind the curve. It was cool at first, I got some good shots...but the third drenching wave caused me to put the camera away (D2H). The camera didn't leak, but what was REALLY impressive was the Computrekker AW I carried it in. By the time we got back, everything in the boat was drenched, but the camera inside the bag was completely dry.

[cube]

Regarding a comparable lens for that Nikon, I think you would have to make some compromises:

25.5mm equiv., no IS:
http://sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3327&navigator=6

slower:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012909nikkor1685vr.asp

[Grimace]

The camera didn't leak, but what was REALLY impressive was the Computrekker AW I carried it in. By the time we got back, everything in the boat was drenched, but the camera inside the bag was completely dry.

I have the bag too, LOVE it. Expensive (for a backpack) but solid, safe, and keeps stuff dry!

[jpsalvesen]

Are you sure you don't want that Olympus E-3?

It's got excellent auto focus. Supposedly best-in-class when you're using the SWD lenses. The E-3 is also weatherproof and splashproof. That means you can take photographs in dramatic weather. It also has a built-in image stabilizing system. That will probably also help you a bit getting sharp shots, especially at tele.

At 5fps its faster than the 5D, but I suspect timing is just as important as fps :)

The smaller sensor means that ISO 3200 is not very usable, but it also means that the optics is a bit more compact and lightweight compared to equivalent Canikon equipment.

You'll get an E-3 with 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD for 1700 + 1200 = 2900 USD. That gives you 100-400mm EFL. There's also a very versatile 12-60mm f/2.8-4 SWD for 900 USD. That is 24-120mm EFL. Depending on whether you prioritize tele or wide/normal, you can pick either one to stay within your 3000 USD budget.

[ChrisA]

There's no way I would go out in 5-ft seas in a Zodiac. A 40ft sloop fine, but a dignhy? That's just terrifying. Impressive though!

It all depends on the period. I was out in 5+ feet a while back with no boat, just floating in a wetsuit. With a 17 second period it is just an elevator ride, 5 or 6 feet up and down. Except near shore where they break you have some seven footers to go under.

Back to weather proofing. A housing for an SLR will make either camera work well even scuba diving. But housings are not cheap. The low-end housing from (say) Ikilite will set you back something like $2K. You can buy a housing for a point and shoot for under $200. These are also suitable for diving and are 100% waterproof. You can do good work with a good P&S.

A big problem is salt drying on the lens or other places to prevent this I keep my housed cameras when not in use in a big tub of saltwater kept on the boat just for storing cameras. Some boats have bait tanks and if there s no bait they make good places to store housed camera gear.

It also depends on your budget. I knew one person who just accepted that his canon DSLRs would get wrecked. He used them remotely mounted on a long pole so get some sailing pictures and dunked a few. But he said it was OK because the memory cards survive a quick dunk. When you think about the cost of loosing 3 or 4 DSLRs it is not that much compared to the cost of flying to New Zealand and taking some boats out for a shoot and the boat crews hiring models, putting everyone up in hotel rooms and so on. I think they were shooting a line of sailing clothing, water proof jackets and the like for a catalog.

[OreoCookie]

At this budget, the 5D is definitely a no no.

[cube]

Those Olympus combos look great. Thanks for pointing them out.

[Nikon/Kodak user]

[annapolitan]

At this budget, the 5D is definitely a no no.

Why do you say that?

[compuwar]

On, one more thing - I have no lens collection that I plan to use (only some old Nikon lenses from the mid-1960's but they are only compatible with the D40x and I know I don't really like that camera). So I'm starting from scratch basically.

The D300 is way more backwards-compatible for older F-mount lenses than the D40x. You should check Nikon's lens compatibility charts to see if yours are on there if they're decent lenses.

[SpookTheHamster]

There isn't really such a thing as a bad camera these days. The best way to decide is to hold both of them. Whichever feels nicer is the one to go for.

With regards to old lenses, I use some really old lenses on my D70. They're perfectly usable but obviously you can't use the camera's meter and they have to be used in manual.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Pentax K20D is weather proofed as well and so far has been getting stellar reviews. Their DA* line of lenses are also weather proofed completing the system. But as others have said, if there's even a chance that the camera will be submerged then you better go for a diving case for it.

SLC

[npederse]

my $0.02 ....

I'm a Canon fan and always have been. Their user interface just works for me, while I have a hard time using Nikons (my cousin is the opposite, go figure).

Either of these are excellent cameras for their purpose, so I think you'll do fine with either. FWIW, I know that if you don't use very good, L glass on the 5D, you'll be disappointed -- the large sensor seems to show the difference much more so than on a 40D or comparable. With that in mind, and your budget, I'd seriously consider the 40D instead, as it will get you into the Canon system and allow extra $$ for some high-quality lenses, like a 70-200 f/4 IS (great lens).

I can't comment on the D300, other than to say the logic is still the same -- buy the next step down (D80) and purchase an additional lens.

You can always upgrade to the next body.

[termina3]

I'd suggest putting money into a proper housing, skimping on the body, and putting whatever remains into good glass.

I say this b/c in your position I'd insist on the camera's continued reliability.

[QuantumLo0p]

Nikon is on the good side of the Force.

Canon is on the bad side.

;)

[annapolitan]

In my original research I read that some of my 40-yr-old Pre-AI lenses will mount on the D40 and D40x (maybe even the D60) with no problems except for no meter function. On the D100, D200, and D300, some people seem to think it will mount if you spend some time modifying the lens, but then others say it won't mount under any circumstances. In any case, I wouldn't want to modify these lenses if I couldn't continue to use them on the old camera.

[termina3]

In my original research I read that some of my 40-yr-old Pre-AI lenses will mount on the D40 and D40x (maybe even the D60) with no problems except for no meter function. On the D100, D200, and D300, some people seem to think it will mount if you spend some time modifying the lens, but then others say it won't mount under any circumstances. In any case, I wouldn't want to modify these lenses if I couldn't continue to use them on the old camera.

They all use the same F-mount. That doesn't make any sense.

[annapolitan]

Here's one of the websites I found that lists the compatibility http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html

[law guy]

\

The 5D is a good camera, but it is two years old. If you're on the fence, I would get the D300 based on that alone, unless you want to wait for the 6D (or 5D Mk II, or whatever they're going to call its replacement), whenever that happens.


Either is a lot of camera. The 5D was perhaps just ahead of its time, I can't say that I understand the comment above. It's noise performance is as good as the D3 with the detail-destroying software noise reduction in the D3 turned off (D3 with NR on and off, part way down the page: http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_2007_01/section_gear_cameras/20080111_Nikon_D3/index.html ; 5D without NR - http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/canon_5D/Canon_5D_review.html) and the 5D still appears to be able to deliver much better in terms of resolving power / sharpness than the 2-year newer Nikons - http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/sharpness-1.htm ; and http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326811 [strange forum for it] ... oops that last one compared the sharpness of the D3 vs the 10 MP, 10 FPS 1D Mk III, oh well, I'll leave the link as it's interesting)

It's not to say that a D300 wouldn't be great - Scott Kelby can't say enough good things about it (http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2007/archives/811) and it's Popular Photography's Camera of the Year (http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/4857/camera-of-the-year-2007-nikon-d300.html). I just don't understand the knock on the incredible performing 5D because it's two years old - two years ago was very different perhaps in the Nikon world and that's projected in the comment. The 5D is still used by folks like Dennis Reggie, Art Wolfe, etc.(plenty of 5D users here http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=ArtistsListAct) - I just don't see it as obsolete or a bad choice based on its age alone.

[law guy]

Nikon is on the good side of the Force.

Canon is on the bad side.

;)

The Canon company started with the Kwanon camera - the first 35 mm focal plane shutter camera made in Japan. Kwanon is the Buddhist goddess of mercy, that sounds like the good side of the force. But "Nippon Kogaku K.K" is warm and fuzzy too.

[compuwar]

Here's one of the websites I found that lists the compatibility http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html

Ah, that's interesting- the aperture ring coupling isn't the same on the D40 (or doesn't exist) than on the rest of the line. AI/AI-S compatibility probably hurts in that case.

[pdxflint]

I don't know much about the Canon, but Canon's are excellent cameras. So are the Nikons. Personally, I'd opt for the Nikon D300 because it's basically got all the metering and focus technology that the D3 has, and I prefer Nikon's flash technology. A review of the D300 can be found in the latest issue of Shutterbug, but they haven't uploaded the text to their website yet (too bad.)

Full frame is useful, but not necessary. Granted, I lust after the D3, and eventually if they make a full frame derivative of the D300, that might be my choice, especially with the new pro lenses Nikon is releasing. The 14-24f/2.8 would be a stunner on full-frame, and gets exceptional reviews, equaling the best primes at either end of it's focal range in edge sharpness, resolution, distortion and CA elimination. These lenses will set you back from $1700 on up though, each.

I'll quote a few paragraphs (not in original order) from Shutterbug's review written by George Schaub in the March edition of the print magazine. It'll probably be on the website shortly.

"This is a camera that you can program to deliver just the color (and contrast, etc) you want for every subject and scene. Like most cameras, you can choose presets that reflect the opinion of the maker as to what constitutes Vivid, Standard, etc. And like other cameras you can insert your take on things by going into the menu and creating nuances of sharpness, saturation, brightness, contrast, and even hue variations for the presets. But the D300 takes it all a bit further. In the Shooting Menu choose "Manage Picture Control," then "Save/Edit." You can then play with all the parameters as you will, which will of course be subject to testing to ensure it's where you want it to be. Then you can actually rename the setup as "Wintertime" or "Fall Foilage" or "Portraits" or whatever. You can also do this with Monochrome/Filter combinations."

"Nikon then takes this a step further, again, by allowing you to save the Picture Control setup to a memory card, making that card, in essence, a type of "film" that has a particular set of parameters. Then, when you load this card you merely select that Picture Control (by uploading it) to your or a fellow shooter's camera. You can also create custom Picture Controls using Nikon software and uploading that to a memory card, or the camera."

"There are a number of interesting new features that come with the package, such as linkage of exposure, focus control, and white balance that Nikon dubs their Scene Recognition System (SRS). This is an extension of their 3D Matrix Metering II setup, where the framed shot is analyzed by the 1005 segment sensor for light and color and then referred to a look-up table for and exposure solution. Now the analysis includes subject motion and highlights, as well as being able to "infer" light sources for white balance settings. Nikon of course keeps how this works close to the vest, but for me the proof is in the pudding, and I have to say the that Matrix meter and SRS delivers some of the most intuitive exposures I have yet to see from and evaluative-type system. In some cases it matched what I accomplished with some very careful spot metering and exposure compensation techniques."

"There are also 48 custom settings to help you set up the controls and options of the camera to your heart's content and assign various functions to however you want the camera to handle."

"There's also an "active" D-Lighting option that can be chosen to deal with highlight control, said to yield improved contrast rendition and wrestle with the bane of digital photography, too-hot highlights. You set this before making the shot, or shots, not as a Retouch menu item after exposure and review (which is still available.) This "active" D-Lighting control can be used to open up the shadow area in a contrasty scene. Now you can play with the tonal curve before exposure. There are three Active options - low, medium and high - and knowing which one to choose will be a matter of experience."

"In all, the exposure and focusing systems in this camera is quite uncanny. In the past makers have always hinted at total exposure control, and that their evaluative, matrix, or whatever system delivered the goods in all types of lighting conditions. Exposure should never be taken for granted, and there are numerous lighting conditions that can trip us all up, but I have to say that the D300 gets pretty close to figuring out many of the lighting scenarios that would have caused many more problems in the past."

"The build, heft, and ease of control access certainly make this a strong contender for the hearts and minds of serious photographers. Making great exposures with swift focusing is at the heart of any such camera. The D300 delivers the above with breathtaking ease, and much, much more in the bargain. There's no question that for the very serious Nikon fans and pros there will be a toss-up between this and the new FX (full frame) D3. There's simply no more waiting for the "other (full frame) shoe" to drop in the Nikon line-up. It might come down to price, or to how important wide and super wide coverage is to your style of work, given the D300's 1.5x focal length magnification. I can only say that the D300 is one formidable camera and unquestionably the flagship in the Nikon DX-format line-up. In fact, the D300 is, in many respects, a D3 with a smaller sensor. Given the $3000 price spread between the D3 and the D300 there may be no debate at all."

[OreoCookie]

Why do you say that?
Read my post above: weather sealing and quality lens budget reasons (you need top-of-the-line lenses with the 5D, otherwise the image quality you get is meh). I advised to look at the Canon 40D and the Olympus E-3 in addition to the D300. If you decide to go Canon, you will almost certainly be better off with a 40D.

[-hh]

The consensus for this question is usually, "go to a store and feel the two camera to figure out which you like better."

And here I thought the consensus was "hey, you should buy whatever I decided was good for me" :D

Full frame - I don't think that's any big deal at all. I currently use a full-frame Nikon D3, but never had ANY issues or disappointment with the 1.5x crop on all my previous cameras...

YMMV. On my crop body dSLR, I've really missed the WA that I had with my film camera. Sure, I could solve the problem buy just buying a new WA lens, but it would have to be one of the digital-only mounts. As such, I see going to a FF camera the better long term solution. FWIW, this concern becomes even more profound when I'm looking at replacing my UW camera system, which has a Nikonos V with a 15mm lens, as typically, putting an SLR behind a flat port narrows its field of view by 20%, so now I'm spending $600 for a good large dome port on top of all of the other 'convert to digital' expenses.



My only reservation for getting 5D now would be upcoming "5D Mark II" update...

Someone else mentioned a release date ETA of 3 Oct 08...dangit, I'll be on a dive trip. Supposedly, one of the Mk2 features is rumored to include is live preview.

Back to weather proofing. A housing for an SLR will make either camera work well even scuba diving. But housings are not cheap. The low-end housing from (say) Ikilite will set you back something like $2K. You can buy a housing for a point and shoot for under $200. These are also suitable for diving and are 100% waterproof. You can do good work with a good P&S.

Agrreed. I've been figuring around a $5-$6K hit on my pocketbook to have a good housed dSLR system, even with the "cheap" Ikelite housing. If you're near the surface and can avoid dropping big bucks for UW strobes, go with the frugal P&S systems.

A big problem is salt drying on the lens or other places to prevent this I keep my housed cameras when not in use in a big tub of saltwater kept on the boat just for storing cameras. Some boats have bait tanks and if there s no bait they make good places to store housed camera gear.

The main thing here is to minimize the wet/dry cycles and to this end, leaving them wet in salt water is better than letting them air dry. Before letting it dry out, one should do freshwater rinsing & soaks, so as to minimize the accumulation of dried salt crystals on the system's O-rings, in particular on "non-user servicable" O-rings, which is the polite way of saying "...gunked up in places that you can't clean it out of..." and which generally calls for sending the equipment in for periodic professional servicing.


-hh