PDA

View Full Version : Will you be using the iPhone SDK ?




MacDonaldsd
Mar 6, 2008, 05:48 AM
Hello fellow coders,

With the arrival of the iPhone SDK looking like a strong possibility in the next few hours, I am wondering if anyone here is going to use it, or indeed already have some ideas planned ?



kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 09:25 AM
It'll be interesting to see how much of the SDK is identical to what's already available from jailbroken iPods.

I hope they provide a way to access the iPhone's hard drive from the desktop and the iPhone, or else apps that require data to be synced to and from the desktop won't exist.

iSee
Mar 6, 2008, 10:24 AM
I'm guessing they'll extend the Sync Service API for syncing data between the iphone/touch and the desktop. I'd be surprised if they weren't using some version of that for their own apps now.

But yeah, directly or indirectly, we'll need access to the iPhone's "hard drive." (Well, directly would be preferable, but I wouldn't count on being able to mount it as an external drive.)

Eraserhead
Mar 6, 2008, 10:46 AM
I'm not going to be coding for the iPhone as I don't really have time at the moment, however I'm sure it'll be an interesting device to code for in the future.

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 12:36 PM
Are you guys following this?

http://assets.gizmodo.com/assets/iphonesdk/iphonesdka131.jpg

:eek: :D

jeremy.king
Mar 6, 2008, 12:52 PM
How did so many people get to use this pre-release, yet no real leaks about feature set? Apple has very powerful attorneys...

Can't wait to play.

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 01:12 PM
Can't wait to play.

Get ready to pony up the $100 though.

Edit: seems you have to pay to publish, but the SDK download is free.

jeremy.king
Mar 6, 2008, 01:16 PM
Get ready to pony up the $100 though.

Edit: seems you have to pay to publish, but the SDK download is free.

I thought they are just taking 30% if you charge.
Edit: Just saw that...why must they monetize everything? *sigh*

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 01:34 PM
Well I just signed up:

Thank you for registering as an iPhone Developer. You will receive an email to complete your registration. Simply click the link within the email to access the Free SDK.

But their website won't even load for me to download.

Monkaaay
Mar 6, 2008, 01:34 PM
From what I can tell, if you're publishing a free app, you won't be paying the $99 fee. For a commercial app, $99 is nothing to be put in front of so many potential customers.

NeoMayhem
Mar 6, 2008, 01:44 PM
SDK is Intel only, it wont install on my iMac G5.

Monkaaay
Mar 6, 2008, 01:53 PM
Do we know if the iPhone SDK is Objective-C only, or has support for the other Cocoa friendly languages such as Python and Ruby?

HiRez
Mar 6, 2008, 01:59 PM
From what I can tell, if you're publishing a free app, you won't be paying the $99 fee. For a commercial app, $99 is nothing to be put in front of so many potential customers.Hmm, that's how I think it should work. However, as I understand it you can only use the SDK locally for free, you still need to pay the $99 to distribute the app (using AppStore), even if it's a free app. That's kind of a bummer for a lot of people if it's true.

EDIT: To be more clear, it seems that you can only run apps on the iPhone simulator on your Mac for free, I don't even think you can install them on your own iPhone without paying (apparently this buys you a certificate that authenticates when you install or something).

HiRez
Mar 6, 2008, 02:00 PM
Does anyone know if the SDK will work with Tiger and Xcode 2 or will Leopard and Xcode 3 be required? I have a feeling it's the latter but I'd like confirmation.

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 02:01 PM
Does anyone know if the SDK will work with Tiger and Xcode 2 or will Leopard and Xcode 3 be required? I have a feeling it's the latter but I'd like confirmation.

I'm pretty sure I read it was Leopard only, since isn't it using Instruments?

HiRez
Mar 6, 2008, 02:02 PM
Do we know if the iPhone SDK is Objective-C only, or has support for the other Cocoa friendly languages such as Python and Ruby?Using the bridges in Leopard it shouldn't matter what language you're calling from, right? So just a guess but I think it should probably work using Python or Ruby. Only hitch might be getting it compiled and packaged correctly to install on iPhone?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it probably won't work if there's no Python or Ruby runtime on the iPhone. There may be but I didn't see it mentioned. Or maybe it's possible to install that but if it's not installed by default on every iPhone it's not good. But they could probably add those to an iPhone software update.

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 02:03 PM
SDK is Intel only, it wont install on my iMac G5.

I'm sure it has to do with the fact that the ARM processor is little-endian. Probably wasn't worth Apple's effort to make it PPC compatible.

Using the bridges in Leopard it shouldn't matter what language you're calling from, right? So just a guess but I think it should probably work using Python or Ruby. Only hitch might be getting it compiled and packaged correctly to install on iPhone?

Unless it's already supposed by the iPhone, I doubt it'll be added via third-party since it's looking like the SDK is allowing developers to only write .apps at this point.


I wish all the newbies would stop loading Apple's site so I can download the SDK.

MacDonaldsd
Mar 6, 2008, 02:06 PM
Unless it's already supposed by the iPhone, I doubt it'll be added via third-party since it's looking like the SDK is allowing developers to only write .apps at this point.


I wish all the newbies would stop loading Apple's site so I can download the SDK.

Yeah I want it :mad:

It looks much better than I thought it would be, I thought the interface would have to be hand coded rather than using an interface builder.

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 02:19 PM
It looks much better than I thought it would be, I thought the interface would have to be hand coded rather than using an interface builder.

I agree, I'm quite impressed with the IB integration, plus the simulator is awesome, and remote debugging will be very useful.


Looks my new avatar kicked in ;)

Monkaaay
Mar 6, 2008, 02:20 PM
I wish I had some app ideas... :o

MacDonaldsd
Mar 6, 2008, 02:21 PM
Looks my new avatar kicked in ;)

:D il miss the old one

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 02:26 PM
I wish I had some app ideas... :o

Start porting over GIMP. I want to see a working prototype in 3 weeks. Get busy.

;)

:D il miss the old one

He's going on sabbatical :)

MacDonaldsd
Mar 6, 2008, 02:28 PM
Anyone downloaded it yet, I have got as far as the log in page and the connection drops.

How big is it ?

Monkaaay
Mar 6, 2008, 02:28 PM
Start porting over GIMP. I want to see a working prototype in 3 weeks. Get busy.

;)

Sir, yes sir!

/runs off

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 02:34 PM
How big is it ?

From this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5109669&postcount=9) it's 2GB. Not sure if I believe that, but if so that is ridiculous.

Edit: Another post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5109691&postcount=233) says it's 2.1GB. I guess it is that big.

MacDonaldsd
Mar 6, 2008, 03:12 PM
Yeah think its xcode with the SDK which makes sense.

Im in the UK so il probably won't get a chance to play with it tonight. :(

Scott Collard
Mar 6, 2008, 03:44 PM
I posted this in another thread, but since you guys mentioned Interface Builder, beware that it's not quite ready.

http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/details.html

Interface Builder (Coming Soon)

Future releases of the iPhone SDK will include Interface Builder to make designing a user interface as easy as drag and drop.

Collard

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 03:48 PM
Also the $99 is per year, and gets you the ability to put your app on your iPhone and publish to iTunes, plus technical support and prerelease versions.

MacDonaldsd
Mar 6, 2008, 04:00 PM
Also the $99 is per year, and gets you the ability to put your app on your iPhone and publish to iTunes, plus technical support and prerelease versions.

Technical support is a nice touch, does it say how many request you can have, because the normal ADC has a limit doesn't it ?

What due you mean pre release, the SDK ?

ebel3003
Mar 6, 2008, 04:01 PM
From this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5109669&postcount=9) it's 2GB. Not sure if I believe that, but if so that is ridiculous.

Edit: Another post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5109691&postcount=233) says it's 2.1GB. I guess it is that big.

Confirming that it is 2.1GB. See attatchment

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 04:16 PM
Confirming that it is 2.1GB. See attatchment

Yep, downloading now myself :)

dborja
Mar 6, 2008, 05:13 PM
It's a good deal all around IMHO.

I was going to start developing for the Mac platform but now I think I'll re-prioritize and jump into iPhone/iTouch development first...

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 05:15 PM
I was going to start developing for the Mac platform but now I think I'll re-prioritize and jump into iPhone/iTouch development first...

If you don't know Cocoa you mind as well start off with the Mac first as it'll probably be easier to understand.

ChrisBrightwell
Mar 6, 2008, 05:28 PM
I keep getting DNS errors while trying to download. :(

dborja
Mar 6, 2008, 05:45 PM
If you don't know Cocoa you mind as well start off with the Mac first as it'll probably be easier to understand.

Thanks for the tip! I'll keep that in mind. Cocoa Touch might be overwhelming. Hopefully, it's Cocoa with extensions for the iPhone/Itouch and not some new beast...

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 06:32 PM
Thanks for the tip! I'll keep that in mind. Cocoa Touch might be overwhelming. Hopefully, it's Cocoa with extensions for the iPhone/Itouch and not some new beast...

After glancing through the iPhone documentation, it really is more complex than normal Cocoa programming. I don't know how much details I can go into now, but I'd say just learn normal Mac programming for now. Almost all the concepts you learn will carry over to the iPhone.

ebel3003
Mar 6, 2008, 06:36 PM
After glancing through the iPhone documentation, it really is more complex than normal Cocoa programming. I don't know how much details I can go into now, but I'd say just learn normal Mac programming for now. Almost all the concepts you learn will carry over to the iPhone.

I've only watched some of the videos outlining some of the tech, but it didn't seem like it was that much harder. Then again, I'm holding out on really getting into Cocoa until Aaron Hillegass's new book is out. Until then I'm just playing around.

chem
Mar 6, 2008, 07:24 PM
I am curious as to how the iPhone SDK interacts with an existing Xcode 3.0 install. As the SDK contains an updated version of Xcode, does it overwrite Xcode 3.0? If so, what changes does it make that may affect non-iPhone applications? If it installs apart from the normal Xcode 3.0 dev tools, how easy is it to uninstall?

neoserver
Mar 6, 2008, 07:49 PM
I am curious as to how the iPhone SDK interacts with an existing Xcode 3.0 install. As the SDK contains an updated version of Xcode, does it overwrite Xcode 3.0? If so, what changes does it make that may affect non-iPhone applications? If it installs apart from the normal Xcode 3.0 dev tools, how easy is it to uninstall?

yes, it overwrites Xcode with a new version. Makes minor adjustments to the interface as far as I can see.

chem
Mar 6, 2008, 08:09 PM
yes, it overwrites Xcode with a new version. Makes minor adjustments to the interface as far as I can see.

Well that that case, we need a complete Xcode changelog. I mean, is this version 3.1, or what? A standalone (non-iPhone SDK) update to Xcode is not available on ADC yet.

neoserver
Mar 6, 2008, 08:14 PM
Well that that case, we need a complete Xcode changelog. I mean, is this version 3.1, or what? A standalone (non-iPhone SDK) update to Xcode is not available on ADC yet.

Its a Beta of 3.1. Any idea where I'd find a complete changelog?

ebel3003
Mar 6, 2008, 08:19 PM
A very brief "What's new" is located in your Developer directory called "About Xcode Tools.pdf".

What's New
Xcode 3.1 developer tools for Mac OS X v10.5 has the following improvements:
• Multiple platform support. In addition to the Mac OS X platform, you can develop
applications for other operating systems platform.
• Many bug fixes to enhance developer productivity and debugging control.
• GCC 4.2 and LLVM-gcc4.2 are new optional compilers for use on Mac OS X
10.5 and with the 10.5 SDK.

Nutter
Mar 6, 2008, 08:19 PM
The SDK looks great, but I'm pissed off that the Developer Program is US only. I sincerely hope this changes before June.

neoserver
Mar 6, 2008, 08:21 PM
A very brief "What's new" is located in your Developer directory called "About Xcode Tools.pdf".

Ah! Never thought to even look there :P

neoserver
Mar 6, 2008, 08:21 PM
The SDK looks great, but I'm pissed off that the Developer Program is US only. I sincerely hope this changes before June.

I'm from Canada and was able to register...

Mantat
Mar 6, 2008, 09:13 PM
I'm from Canada and was able to register...

I am from Canada too, I managed to download the SDK and register BUT I am not able to install the SDK. When I try to mount the image, I get this error:

iphone_SDK.dmg Codec overrun

what is that?

Anyone from Canada managed to install it? I dont want to spend another 2gig of bandwidth for nothing...

neoserver
Mar 6, 2008, 09:16 PM
I am from Canada too, I managed to download the SDK and register BUT I am not able to install the SDK. When I try to mount the image, I get this error:

iphone_SDK.dmg Codec overrun

what is that?

Anyone from Canada managed to install it? I dont want to spend another 2gig of bandwidth for nothing...

Yes i've installed it and compiled an example successfully. Your download probably got corrupted while downloading or something.

Mantat
Mar 6, 2008, 09:17 PM
Yes i've installed it and compiled an example successfully. Your download probably got corrupted while downloading or something.

Thanks. I am downloading it again!

The General
Mar 6, 2008, 09:39 PM
I can't seem to get programs to build and run on my iPhone, just on the simulator. I am trying some of the test programs Apple has provided. They don't seem to work. Any ideas? Is the SDK not compatible with iPhone firmware 1.1.4 or something? My phone is unhacked, I restored after failing on a jailbreaked 1.1.4 and it still doesn't work.

The phone shows up in Xcode but it isn't available as a device in the active SDK menu. :(

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 09:42 PM
I can't seem to get programs to build and run on my iPhone, just on the simulator. I am trying some of the test programs Apple has provided. They don't seem to work. Any ideas? Is the SDK not compatible with iPhone firmware 1.1.4 or something? My phone is unhacked, I restored after failing on a jailbreaked 1.1.4 and it still doesn't work.

The phone shows up in Xcode but it isn't available as a device in the active SDK menu. :(

It costs $99 to be able to test your app on the iPhone directly, and that program isn't even available yet.

The General
Mar 6, 2008, 10:04 PM
It costs $99 to be able to test your app on the iPhone directly, and that program isn't even available yet.

No it doesn't ... it costs $99 to get your programs in the App Store.

kainjow
Mar 6, 2008, 10:12 PM
No it doesn't ... it costs $99 to get your programs in the App Store.

From iPhone Developer Program Details (http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/details.html):

The iPhone Developer Program provides you with the ability to develop directly on iPhone or iPod touch. Build, test, and optimize your application to get the best performance possible, exactly as your customers will experience it.

Downloading the SDK is not the same as being part of the iPhone Developer Program.

Mantat
Mar 6, 2008, 10:25 PM
I am from Canada too, I managed to download the SDK and register BUT I am not able to install the SDK. When I try to mount the image, I get this error:

iphone_SDK.dmg Codec overrun

what is that?

Anyone from Canada managed to install it? I dont want to spend another 2gig of bandwidth for nothing...

I just wasted another 2gig of bandwidth... I am still getting the same error!!! GRrrr!

The General
Mar 6, 2008, 10:53 PM
From iPhone Developer Program Details (http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/details.html):



Downloading the SDK is not the same as being part of the iPhone Developer Program.

That sucks. My bad.

panzerjedi
Mar 7, 2008, 03:45 AM
After installing the SDK, does anyone find that their GUI run a bit laggy? I had XCode 3 installed previously and did not see this lag.

gnasher729
Mar 7, 2008, 06:49 AM
How did so many people get to use this pre-release, yet no real leaks about feature set? Apple has very powerful attorneys...

That has nothing to do with "powerful". The developers that they were invited signed an NDA. Now there are two conflicting thoughts in those developers: Thought one is "I want to be the dude who told the world and macrumors about the iPhone SDK". Thought two is "Telling the world about the iPhone SDK is abusing Apple's trust, it is deeply unprofessional, it is lame, it will cost me my well-paying job and get me a resumé where my employer states that I was fired on the spot for violating an NDA, which will not help with my future career at all, it will exclude my company forever from a possible source of making major amounts of money, my colleagues will all hate me".

Once people have grown up, Thought #2 is much much stronger.

Thomas Harte
Mar 7, 2008, 08:35 AM
No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and builtin interpreter(s) [...] An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise.
Hmmm. I can understand them wanting to outlaw emulators (as they're often of unclear legality) and interpreters that effectively side step the AppStore (bringing security risks and reducing Apple revenue), but this surely bars a whole bunch of games? I think it's relatively rare nowadays that developers, especially commercial ones, hardcode that much...

wrldwzrd89
Mar 7, 2008, 09:24 AM
I intend to look at it, but since I'm primarily a Java person, and don't fully understand how to develop in Cocoa (though I'd love to learn) I might have to wait until I understand how to do that first.:(

simon-says
Mar 7, 2008, 10:00 AM
Nope, I seriously doubt it at all. As a student paying another $99 a year, plus having to buy an Intel mac is just too much for me. My Powerbook is still under AppleCare, ridiculous for me to spend that kind of money on a new machine in under 3 years. Getting screwed with the last gen PowerPC chips again!

cupofjoe
Mar 8, 2008, 10:14 AM
I just wasted another 2gig of bandwidth... I am still getting the same error!!! GRrrr!

You on an Intel Mac? 10.5?

admanimal
Mar 8, 2008, 10:20 AM
Has anyone that has tried to sign up for the iPhone Dev Program (i.e. pay the $99) actually gotten anything beyond a message saying their info was being processed?

Mantat
Mar 8, 2008, 11:18 AM
You on an Intel Mac? 10.5?

Yes, Mac Pro 10.5.2

I am going to try another download now and see what happens

kainjow
Mar 8, 2008, 11:44 AM
Has anyone that has tried to sign up for the iPhone Dev Program (i.e. pay the $99) actually gotten anything beyond a message saying their info was being processed?

I haven't gotten anything either. Not even a confirmation email.

dborja
Mar 8, 2008, 12:02 PM
I haven't gotten anything either. Not even a confirmation email.

Same here. At least we have XCode 3.1 to keep us busy...