PDA

View Full Version : Before I take a hammer to this I-Mac....




Nsar1
Mar 29, 2008, 05:53 PM
..I thought I'd have one last go at trying to simply get a Nano to talk to it. After wasting an hour or so trying with the pathetic instruction set, it turns out that because I have 10.4.7 my Nano won't work. Of course I had to find that out for my self by searching on forums like this.
OK so I try to update the software but I get an error message saying I can't connect to the update server (internet connection is just fine). I try my local Apple store who say that the only way to get the update is to connect to the server. That's in the chocolate teapot category of help I feel. Or I could buy a whole new OS for more than the cost of the Nano. Yeah right.
I google "download 10.4.8" and get some links to the Apple site but the click throughs from Apple's own site don't work. This is now way past amateur hour.

Does anyone have anything that might help.

I know this is heresy but if I connected my nano to PC it would work a treat, but it's my son's nano and his I-mac so that's not an option and i have my own I-tunes on there any way.

I thought these things were supposed to by easy to use?



veeco3110
Mar 29, 2008, 06:06 PM
have you tried running the software update on the very top left hand corner under the apple to get the latest version of tiger which i believe is 10.4.11

it can also be that the version of itunes that youre using is too old. that will come up with the software updates anyways. that happened to my friends pc. he has an old version of itunes and his new ipod wouldnt recognize itunes due to it being the older version.

im on my 24 inch iMac right now with both my iphone and 5.5 80 gig ipod charging and theyre both fine...running leopard though...

QCassidy352
Mar 29, 2008, 06:16 PM
have you tried running the software update on the very top left hand corner under the apple to get the latest version of tiger which i believe is 10.4.11

seconded. Is there some reason you don't want to upgrade the imac to 10.4.11? It's the last, least buggy Tiger point release. I can't see why you'd rather have 10.4.7 or .8.

iBookG4 FTW
Mar 29, 2008, 06:18 PM
Did you guys even read the post? He said he can't connect, and he is trying to get the latest version of Tiger.

Dimwhit
Mar 29, 2008, 06:25 PM
You mentioned clicking some of the links at Apple's site. Did you get to this page?

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx10411comboupdateintel.html

It's the combo updater that gets you to 10.4.11 (you need at least 10.4.4, which you do). I tried the link and was able to download the .dmg file. What happens when you click the download link? (It's toward the top-right in the Download Details box.)

Edit: If you don't have an Intel machine, here's the PPC page:

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx10411comboupdateppc.html

Nsar1
Mar 30, 2008, 06:11 PM
Thanks for your suggestions. I just downloaded the combo update and after about 6 hours (I connect through GPRS) it finished downloading, I clicked 'open' and it produced an error message saying file does not exist or it has changed name since download.

I cannot tell you how unbelievably frustrating I find this whole process.

Please help!

glocke12
Mar 31, 2008, 04:59 AM
maybe time for an appt at your local apple store?

zackdank
Mar 31, 2008, 05:08 AM
Good grief! I second the trip to the apple store!

RedTomato
Mar 31, 2008, 05:23 AM
You're downloading a massive software update through a mobile phone connection? That's insane.

Suggest you find a computer with a reliable landbased internet connection (pref broadband) and download the combo updater, then save it on a cd or dvd or USB stick, and transfer to the imac.

If you must download via the mobile, then use a third party downloader (e.g. 'speed download' or some other free app) which will look after reconnections and keeping it all together.

EDIT: Just noticed it says can't find file. Maybe the file's still there, just under a slightly different name? Have a look around.

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 10:15 AM
I don't have a choice of how to download at home, something that Apple seem unable to comprehend. My son is away for a few days so I thought I'd surprise him by getting the thing to work for when he got back, it was already a disappointment that his birthday present has been useless from the moment he unwrapped it, because I haven't had hours to spare to try to get it working. I thought it might be something I could do whilst getting on with a few other things around the house, not burn a whole day getting nowhere.

I have asked a colleague to download the update and burn it to disc and I'll try it when I get home.

But why should I have to go through all this pain simply to get 120 worth of Nano to talk to a high end piece of kit like an I-Mac that probably cost about five times as much as a cheap PC that could do this without even blinking?

Every part of this experience in terms of hardware, software and support has been user-unfriendly, frustrating and time consuming. Thank you for the constructive comments here which have been in contrast to the useless product and service experience from Apple itself.

J@ffa
Mar 31, 2008, 10:57 AM
But why should I have to go through all this pain simply to get 120 worth of Nano to talk to a high end piece of kit like an I-Mac that probably cost about five times as much as a cheap PC that could do this without even blinking?.

Well, you are in an unusual situation in that you don't have broadband. Most people will at least have a 1 megabit connection, and regardless of this Apple's made it extremely easy to update by using the built-in Software Update application. Also, as far as Apple go over the phone it's difficult to tell what the problem is. For what it's worth, a Genius Bar tech would have (hopefully!) recognised the problem in thirty seconds flat once you said the word 'New iPod' and he saw your OS version.

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 11:49 AM
I have a 3g connection but this can drop to low dial-up rates for any number of reasons beyond my control. But that isn't actually the problem it just makes the existing problem more tiresome to solve.

The Genius might have recognised the problem but the only solution they offer is to try to sell me a whole new OS for not far off the cost of the Nano! Some solution.......

ZenErik
Mar 31, 2008, 11:54 AM
Do you not have any friends with internet? Take the iMac to their house and do the update there. ;)

Sky Blue
Mar 31, 2008, 12:01 PM
Seems like you have a pretty bizarre internet setup and are taking it out on the computer. If you take your iMac to an Apple Store, they can do the update for you.

ZenErik
Mar 31, 2008, 12:02 PM
Seems like you have a pretty bizarre internet setup and are taking it out on the computer. If you take your iMac to an Apple Store, they can do the update for you.

Or go to one of a billion coffee shops or cafes that now offer free WIFI. :D

Might be weird with an iMac, but it's been done before, haha. I've seen it.

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 12:18 PM
Lug a big computer around just so I can connect an I-pod? I was hoping for something a little more convenient....what about all that "works straight out of the box" stuff?

Like I say the internet connection isn't the issue, it's just making the problem harder to solve. The problem would have been a whole lot easier if...

a) An error message of some sort was displayed when the nano failed to show-up as a source
b) I could connect to the software update server
c) There was a quick download taking me from 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 rather than a 312mb file size and which didn't require me to download third party software to make it easier/more convenient
d) If I can't connect to the server then at least give me troubleshooting options not just a "quit" button
e) having downloaded the software update it didn't fail to recognise it

These are the problems, none of which are to do with the speed of my connection aside from e) being longer a process than it might otherwise be.

Sky Blue
Mar 31, 2008, 12:25 PM
a) An error message of some sort was displayed when the nano failed to show-up as a source
I agree, there should be. The tech specs page for the nano, does say 10.4.9 though,
http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/specs.html



c) There was a quick download taking me from 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 rather than a 312mb file size and which didn't require me to download third party software to make it easier/more convenient

Not sure what type of iMac you have, but here's a 31MB PPC download:
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx1048updateppc.html

d) If I can't connect to the server then at least give me troubleshooting options not just a "quit" button
GPRS seems a strange way to do software updates

These are the problems, none of which are to do with the speed of my connection aside from e)

and b)

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the constructive comments. It's an Intel I-Mac

on B) it simply won't connect at all to the update server, running diagnostics simply tells me my internet connection is OK and that's as far as diagnostics goes....

Hopefully the download from my colleague will do the trick

Sky Blue
Mar 31, 2008, 12:43 PM
Ok, the download from 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 is 206MB. This is a pretty decent OS upgrade, so they're going to be fairly large. It's not like going from iTunes 7.1.1 to 7.1.2.

You might need to upgrade your iTunes too.

GimmeSlack12
Mar 31, 2008, 12:50 PM
And here is the 10.4.11 for Intel update.
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx10411updateintel.html

(I literally re-arranged Sky Blues link and it worked)
EDIT: And why is everyone only suggesting 10.4.8? That makes very little sense. Everything would work just fine, but 6 hours to download an update? Lame.

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 12:55 PM
Thanks but that download requires a more recent OS than I have at present. I'm on 10.4.7.

They don't make easy do they!

I think this is what I need,
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx1048updateintel.html

but without the nano in front of me I'd swear the leaflet that comes with it says it needs 10.4.8 but the link above seems to suggest 10.4.9

nufanec
Mar 31, 2008, 03:21 PM
Yo will need at least 10.4.9 to use the nano but here's what to do:

Go to the Apple menu in the top left. Select 'About This Mac'. If under processor it says Power PC G3,4, or 5, you need the PPC Combo Updater (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx10411comboupdateppc.html). If it says Intel Core Duo or Intel Core 2 Duo then you need the Intel Combo Updater (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macosx10411comboupdateintel.html). You can get this update by clicking the links above and downloading the appropriate file, or by again going to the Apple Menu and selecting 'Software Update...'. If you go through software update, the installer will run automatically, if not the file that downloads opens like a disk and you run the installer through a .mpkg file in there.

You may also have to update your version of iTunes to 7.6.1 as the nano requires 7,6 or later. You can again get the update though software update, or by going here (http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/).

Best of luck.

brand
Mar 31, 2008, 03:35 PM
I don't have a choice of how to download at home, something that Apple seem unable to comprehend.

Actually they give you the option of downloading it from their website from anywhere and burning it to a disc or coping it to some form of portable medium. Then take it back to your computer and install it.

It seems a little foolish to blame Apple because your internet connection sucks and was not meant to download the type of file you are trying to download.

benoitgphoto
Mar 31, 2008, 04:06 PM
I have asked a colleague to download the update and burn it to disc and I'll try it when I get home.

But why should I have to go through all this pain simply to get 120 worth of Nano to talk to a high end piece of kit like an I-Mac that probably cost about five times as much as a cheap PC that could do this without even blinking?



Obviously, there is something wrong with either your internet connection or Network settings. The update process on Mac OS is really straightforward : Go in to Apple menu and choose Software update and that's it. Also, my question is why are you still running this old version of Mac OS X. I believe the last revision is 10.4.11 and has been released many months ago (sometimes beginning fall 2007) and the reason why yours is still not up to date is maybe showing that you have a problem to update for a while...am I wrong ?

As far as the Nano, providing you have the right OS X version to run the Nano, it should connect and sync with Itunes without a glitch and this is pretty straightforward as well : connect and click sync.

Have you tried to repair permissions ?
My recommendation will be to bring your machine to an Apple store and get it checked by a genius.

Cheers

GimmeSlack12
Mar 31, 2008, 04:07 PM
They don't make easy do they!

Seems like you're in a particularly odd situation. Normally it is extremely easy.
As for the OS version you need 10.4.8 or higher. So you really should get yourself the 10.4.11 update and forget about any of the other versions. The problem is kinda hairy, but the solution really is unquestionable. Get 10.4.11.

chadamorrill
Mar 31, 2008, 04:34 PM
... I try my local Apple store who say that the only way to get the update is to connect to the server.

I can't believe the Apple Store employees wouldn't bend over backwards to help you. I'd go in to the store and ask for a "genius." Explain your internet experience at home, and I'd bet $5 that if you asked nicely, s/he'd download 10.4.11 and burn it to CD for you on the spot.

I thought these things were supposed to by easy to use?
Agreed with EVERYONE else in the post, iPods are EXTREMELY easy, but YES they do require you to have the latest version of the Mac OS as well as the latest version of iTunes. Once you have those installed, the iPod is a dream to use/update. Just keep patient. It's not the iPod, and it's not the iMac... it's your internet connection! :)

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 04:39 PM
Again, thanks for the constructive comments but please believe me, I have clicked and clicked and clicked 'software updates' and every time it tells me I can't connect to the update server and every time I go through diagnostics up to the point where it says my internet connection is fine then all it offers me is "quit".

To the poster who suggested that Apple is offering me a service by allowing me to go to round to the house of another computer user to burn the software and then I can take it home and upload it...I don't really think that's a service. All I want is for the software updates to be available.

I do appreciate your desire to help, but I think the best thing to do is for me to try this disc that my colleague has burnt and hopefully all will be well. I'll report back tomorrow night after I've tried it.

Thanks all

PS the last post above appeared as I was writing this one. Honestly, I went to the store and did explain the problem I was having with software updates. I'm 43 years old, I run a customer service business and as far as I can be sure, I think I was being polite and willing to be helped and all I got was "you need to buy Leopard".

killmoms
Mar 31, 2008, 04:44 PM
All I want is for the software updates to be available.

They are available, clearly there's just a problem with your (self-admittedly unusual) broadband setup.

Get the 10.4.11 combo updater on a CD, maybe the latest iTunes update wouldn't hurt either, and be done with it.

chadamorrill
Mar 31, 2008, 05:00 PM
I do appreciate your desire to help, but I think the best thing to do is for me to try this disc that my colleague has burnt and hopefully all will be well. I'll report back tomorrow night after I've tried it.

As long as it's the COMBO update (and it's 10.4.9 or higher) it should be fine. I'm still worried you may need an update to iTunes too, though. Especially since you're currently running 10.4.7. I'd ask your colleague to download and burn the latest iTunes for you too, just to be safe.

PS the last post above appeared as I was writing this one. Honestly, I went to the store and did explain the problem I was having with software updates. I'm 43 years old, I run a customer service business and as far as I can be sure, I think I was being polite and willing to be helped and all I got was "you need to buy Leopard".

Unreal! I'm totally, 100% suprised!

Nsar1
Mar 31, 2008, 05:01 PM
Killmoms (nice)

Why would a 3g datacard web connection prevent me connecting to the software updates server when diagnostics tells me my internet connection is working OK?

ZenErik
Mar 31, 2008, 05:12 PM
Unreal! I'm totally, 100% suprised!
I agree. My experience with the Genius Bar has been great. Very helpful, knowledgeable, and polite.

126351
Mar 31, 2008, 05:48 PM
Killmoms (nice)

Why would a 3g datacard web connection prevent me connecting to the software updates server when diagnostics tells me my internet connection is working OK?

Your service provider is likely barring the download. Those connections aren't designed or marketed to download half a gig of data in one shot. Datacard vendors don't usually take kindly to bandwidth abusers.

northy124
Mar 31, 2008, 05:58 PM
As Banjhiyi said DataCard's were not designed for that type of downloading you should look into getting broadband or at the very least dial-up.

RedTomato
Mar 31, 2008, 07:49 PM
I agree with the above comments. Which company are you getting your mobile internet from, and what tariff are you on? I know in the UK it says 'unlimited data' but that almost always comes with subtle restrictions on downloads.

You could just plug into dialup internet for a temporary period - there are several 'free' dialup internet providers which only charge you the cost of a local call and have no sign-up process or monthly fees. Here's a couple:

http://www.free-dialup.net/
http://www.0845access.com/

If you in future do a large download via dialup, I very strongly reccomend using a third party download handler, NOT downloading via Safari or Firefox.


a) An error message of some sort was displayed when the nano failed to show-up as a source
b) I could connect to the software update server
c) There was a quick download taking me from 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 rather than a 312mb file size and which didn't require me to download third party software to make it easier/more convenient
d) If I can't connect to the server then at least give me troubleshooting options not just a "quit" button
e) having downloaded the software update it didn't fail to recognise it

a) The nano came out after 10.4.7 was written. You can't expect software to be precognitive and recognise a hardware category that didn't exist when it was written. Apple provide a FREE download to sort this out. Pretty much all macs automatically regularly check for updates. There's a problem either with the software update application or with the mobile internet connection.

b) Probably blocked by the mobile company. It's their fault for misleading you. Get a better connection.

c) Get a better connection. A large download will be faster.

d) There's a problem either with the software update application or with the mobile internet connection.

e) Get a better connection. (or use a third party download handler)

xXriderXx7
Mar 31, 2008, 07:56 PM
Seems like you have a pretty bizarre internet setup and are taking it out on the computer. If you take your iMac to an Apple Store, they can do the update for you.

Thanks for correcting him on the iMac mistake, along with the iTunes one.


It bugs me when people do that.

Nsar1
Apr 1, 2008, 02:34 AM
The 3g card connection isn't blocking the connection to the software upgrade server for reasons of download size because it doesn't even try to connect so it doesn't know how much I'm trying to download, plus diagnostics says the internet connection is fine. In any case I can download 312mb of update from the Apple site, albeit slowly, but having downloaded it, I click open and it produced an error message saying the file is no longer there or has changed its name etc.

I can see the download in the recent files list but it's not clickable.

If anyone could suggest what the problem might be with the software update application I'd be grateful as it isn't the internet connection. I think the fair use policy I'm on is 2gb per month and I am nowhere near that.

I'm in a different city today and I'll try my best smile at the Apple store and see if they will be more helpful.

ntrigue
Apr 1, 2008, 04:30 AM
How is it Apple's fault that you refused to upgrade at no cost on 4 occasions? The upgrade is FREE and the updates beneficial.

RedTomato
Apr 1, 2008, 04:43 AM
The 3g card connection isn't blocking the connection to the software upgrade server for reasons of download size because it doesn't even try to connect so it doesn't know how much I'm trying to download, plus diagnostics says the internet connection is fine.

To be honest, that does look like the mobile company has put a block on the softwareupdate website. A site specific block would produce something like 'connection timed out' or 'software update cannot access the server'

If your mac can connect to other websites perfectly fine, that that argues for a block on the updates website. Providers don't tend to block large file specifically as that large file could be streaming TV or whatever. They block specific websites or throttle specific types of traffic e.g. bittorrent or VOIP.

Can you clarify

b) I could connect to the software update server

Is that a typo for 'couldn't' ?

Nsar1
Apr 1, 2008, 05:48 AM
I'd be really surprised if Vodafone have put a block on the Apple update server and I'm the first one to discover this. If I was Apple I'd be getting pretty annoyed at Vodafone, but I will ask this specific question when I visit the Apple store later today, I'm pretty sure they would know, but I explained my connection to the other Apple store and they didn't suggest this might be the cause of the problem.

In answer to your question about is it typo, no. What I wrote was

>>The problem would have been a whole lot easier if...
b) I could connect to the software update server

In response to ntrigue, it's a second hand machine which I haven't had for long and have had no reason to look for software updates before so I haven't refused to upgrade. If I had tried earlier then I would have been posting these comments correspondingly earlier. The date on the calendar isn't what's blocking the upgrades, is it?

orpheus1120
Apr 1, 2008, 06:21 AM
Your problem is not something most of us have experienced. I suggest you go about solving this systematically, doing everything the proper way.

In order to solve your problem in the long run, I suggest you bring your iMac to a place with another internet connection and download the updates again.

If you experience the "filename changed" problem that you had before and cannot run the update, I would suggest reinstalling Tiger all over again, as this is the best solution to ensure a clean install of OS X then trying to figure which part of your system has gone haywired. As this is a refurbished set, reinstalling Tiger ensures that the platform is running optimally.

With your current frustration over the whole matter, resolving this problem in any other ways IMHO will have a less than desirable outcome.

By targetting the problems you are facing one at a time, and ensuring you have a clean installation of OS X is imperative. That will ensure everything that goes on after that is smooth sailing, so that you are able to resolves your issues systematically.

Do not be deter by the tedious/hassle of resolving your problems. Extreme problems requires extreme measures!

The last you want to do is let your emotions ruin everything. Calm down!

phorae
Apr 1, 2008, 09:02 AM
Nsar1,

Firstly may I say sorry for the fact that you are finding this frustrating. I am sure it must have been exciting at first to give your child something as a gift and then annoying to not have it function as you expect.

As a engineer with ummmm... a large International Company that sells computers and portable music players and has an obvious stake in ensuring that your iPod works with your iMac ( ;) ), I'd like to offer some advice.

Firstly I would check to see if you are running the builtin Firewall software - and if so if it is blocking port 8088. You can access the Firewall in the Sharing Preference Pane in System Preferences. If it is on, turn it off and try and do a software update again, if SU works now, then we have identified the problem - You will need to reconfigure the Firewall to allow 8088 port connections before turning it back on again.

If this does not work, turn the Firewall back on again, and check and see if your ISP is blocking port 8088 for data connections - this is the port that Software Update communicates via. Ring them and ask them.

If that does not resolve the issue, then read on.


Why would a 3g datacard web connection prevent me connecting to the software updates server when diagnostics tells me my internet connection is working OK?


Because having a service provider (ISP) block a particular site or communication port does not mean that your internet connection is not working. It means that the ISP has determined the it does not want to provide access to particular sites - and usually for 3G cards this means high bandwidth, big chunk downloaders - I know for a fact it happens in my country, and Vodaphone is a ISP here.

I should also note here that this is platform agnostic - I have seen Windows updates fail for the very same reason.

I apologise for the assumption, but are you using 3G because nothing else is available in your area? If so, I know for a fact in my country that usually means that 3G is not particularly reliable, either.

I have to side with those here who are attempting to convince you that there is an issue with your Internet connection.

As orpheus1120 (and probably others) have already stated, I would suggest trying an alternate internet connection to see if that resolves the issue - if it does, you have a strong customer case with your ISP to fix it - BTW I don't recall you actually having asked your ISP - have you done so? What was their response?


If I was Apple I'd be getting pretty annoyed at Vodafone


Not really, Apple cannot tell them how to run their ISP business, it is outside their control. If they got upset over every little thing a 3rd party has done to trip them up - either intentionally or otherwise, they would have folded a long time ago.


Lug a big computer around just so I can connect an I-pod? I was hoping for something a little more convenient....what about all that "works straight out of the box" stuff?


As an analogy, without system modifications does:

1. Last year's iPod nano play video?

2. A DVD player from 2 years ago play BluRay?

3. A Pre -1986 car run on unleaded fuel?

I know that last one is a long bow to draw (and is valid in regards to the Australian car market), but futureproofing is a magic, not a science.

The iPod nano was a product released after the Operating System running on your Macintosh was released. Occasionally it happens that when a new product is released there is a need to produce a operating system (or other application) upgrade for systems out in the wild so it can work. Neither Apple, nor anyone else can guarantee otherwise. Apple does advertise the system requirements for the products on the box. If you meet those requirements, then you have a reasonable right to expect that it "works straight out of the box". But we cannot predict the future when we release a computer and/or Operating System - even for our own products.

As far as lugging goes, the internet access available has determined that that may be required. That is not a flaw with the computer, that's a flaw with the type of internet access. There may be no other way around it, if you cannot get the update any other way. Everybody here is offering alternatives. Hell, if we can do this off list I'll even burn and send you the updates from Australia.


Like I say the internet connection isn't the issue, it's just making the problem harder to solve. The problem would have been a whole lot easier if...

a) An error message of some sort was displayed when the nano failed to show-up as a source
b) I could connect to the software update server
c) There was a quick download taking me from 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 rather than a 312mb file size and which didn't require me to download third party software to make it easier/more convenient
d) If I can't connect to the server then at least give me troubleshooting options not just a "quit" button
e) having downloaded the software update it didn't fail to recognise it


The internet connection is the issue. And it makes it harder to work around. Just because the connection is up (which is what Network Diagnostics can determine), does not mean it is fully functional. An ISP can block anything they want, without the connection being diagnosed as bad. That does represent an issue with the connection. The firewall or the ISP could be blocking port 8088. That also represents an issue with the connection.

As far as your points go:

a) The version of iTunes you have doesn't even know what you have connected, so it can't give you an error message. The operating system does recognise that a device has been attached, and successfully, otherwise you would get an error message. An iPod advertises itself as a storage device - and if it does so successfully, there is no error. We rely on the most recent version of iTunes to then identify the storage device as being a iPod nano - and that signature changes with each new product, so an old version of iTunes will not recognise the new signature - in the same way older DVD players may not have recognised DTS audio streams, once they became more popular on DVDs. At least we do have an update mechanism available. However, please note that one day, Apple may release an iPod that cannot be used with 10.4 at all, because it doesn't have some feature is required and that can be easily retrofitted.

b) It is being blocked somehow via your ISP, or some other mechanism. You just have to trust us on this one. I have given you a few things to try early on in this reply. As have a few others. We are all trying to help.

c) The larger combo update is recommended as you bought your computer second hand, I believe, and I cannot verify how the OS was installed for you (see later). As far as 3rd party software to help downloading over dial up - that 's out there to help deal with the fact that dial up is just to slow nowadays, but is not necessary.

Given that I have downloaded the combo updater a LOT on various customers' sites, I can assure you that it is not the combo updater that is broken.

I would also recommend going to 10.4.11 if you do not wish to purchase Leopard (which is also fine, I am not here to sell you a product).

If you can get an appointment at a REAL Apple Store Genius bar, they will be more than happy to install the update for you. It is in their charter to offer that kind of service.

d) Because it appears as if there's nothing to troubleshoot from the mac end - for example, we cannot troubleshoot your ISP blocking data access. In fact, Network Diagnostics is the troubleshooting button - and it rightfully reports that you can connect to the Internet. There is nothing wrong with the actual link part of the connection, however there may be something wrong with what your ISP is letting you access, or access is deliberately blocked through some other means, such as a firewall.

Make sure you are not confusing the connection with what you are permitted to do with the connection - two different things. It is difficult to troubleshoot what you are permitted to do with a connection - especially if you are being denied by the ISP. It simply reports that it cannot connect. Sometimes you get enough info back to supply to the user some other useful information. Sometimes you don't. That's the Internet for you.

Having said that, I doubt that the ISP is timing out connections before the update server can respond - the process works as follows:

1. The OS downloads the catalog of updates available. This does not take long.

2. It compares the contents of the catalog versus the receipts of updates already installed

3. Provides you a list of what you have not installed in order to choose from and install. When you choose, it is then that the bigger downloads take place.

Most of the processing happens on your computer - and it can take a while - but the catalog is relatively quick to download.

e) The file you did download has been corrupted in the download. That is really unfortunate because you are on such a slow connection - by the way 312Mb taking 6 hours seems like an awful long time for a 3G connection - I would even guess you are not getting true 3G speeds where you are - another cause for concern with this ISP.

I believe you said you bought your mac second hand - when you got it, was it clean installed? Did you have to go through the whole account creation process? Or did it just boot to the Desktop? If the latter, then the Operating System you have could have been modified in ways that may interfere with getting a software update. I always recommend wiping and reinstalling a Operating System whenever you obtain a computer second hand.

Everybody here is trying to help you and they are offering you what I see to be the right answers - you have limited options with the type of internet connection you have available - 3G should not be considered a substitute for other broadband access. Please don't be frustrated with the people here or your iMac - its not their fault.

In summary:

1. Check the firewall software.

2. See if the issue is resolved with another Internet Connection. If so you have a case with your ISP - and they are responsible for what you can see with your Internet Connection, not Apple. 6 hours seems like an awfully long time to download 312Mb, even over 3G - of course this depends on the speed you are being promised.

3. If not, take your iMac into an Apple Store and get a Genius to look at it. Get them to do the update while you are there.

4. Try getting a burnt disc off a friend

5. As per orpheus1120: If your Mac was second hand and it was not clean installed (ie you got someone else's desktop instead of going through the OS setup process) consider a clean install - yes that means backing up your data. Again an Apple Store Genius can help here.

I apologise if any of this sounds arrogant or condescending. Its been a long day and I am tired. I really want to help - as does everyone else here.

But the first thing that needs to be done is to not assign blame to the Mac. Your OS and iTunes version is around a year old. Let's get that fixed.

Kind Regards,

Phorae.

Nsar1
Apr 1, 2008, 10:08 AM
Phorae,

Thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed response.

I will try to work through the suggetions here and let you know the outcome in a day or two as I'm away from the machine for at least 24hrs.

RedTomato
Apr 1, 2008, 12:42 PM
I nominate this for the most helpful post of the year!

Nsar1
Apr 2, 2008, 05:11 PM
Dear all, an update...

I went to see a Genius who couldn't get my I-Mac to talk to the updates server using their connection so as far as I can be sure it wasn't my 3G connection.

We had a happy 20 minutes together trying to get to the root of the problem without success so I gave in and bought Leopard.

Thanks to everyone who offered their insight - special thanks to Phorae for a Herculean post and to Eraserhead for offering to burn the updates to a disc and send it to a total stranger.

So whilst my experience has left me a profound Apple sceptic, the legendary devotion of Apple users to the brand seems to be in very good health!

phorae
Apr 3, 2008, 03:09 AM
Nasr1,

I must apologise, because today I thought of another potential reason for software update to not connect.

Can you please confirm that when you bought the 2nd hand Mac, upon turning it for the first time, did you have to go through the setup process, eg creating a account, etc? Or was it already set up for you?

Where did you buy the computer from? An individual or an institution?

I am starting to wonder if the system had been modified to look for software updates from someone's internal network. That can be done from the command line, and is often done by institutions such as universities, etc.

I should have thought of that before, dammit. Like I said at the time I had just had a long day.

If you find that you do an update install of Leopard, and it does not work, please get back on this thread, becuase we can take it on from there.

Phorae.

Nsar1
Apr 3, 2008, 05:12 AM
Hi,

The computer came from my company and the possibility of it looking for a corporate server was something I had considered and discussed wtih the Genius who checked and she said it wasn't doing this.

Thanks for the offer of support on Leopard. I'm going to install it later tonight, but hopefully you'll never hear from me again!

Thanks again

orpheus1120
Apr 3, 2008, 08:18 AM
I am curious if the genuis explained to you the reason why your iMac wasn't connecting to their internet connection? If the reason is hardware-related, I cannot see how installing Leopard would help, although I highly suspect it is a software/configuration issue which may be resolved simply with a Tiger reinstallation. Buying Leopard is good I grant you that, but may prove to be an expensive and futile venture before exhausting the current options.

Why didin't you opt to reinstall the Tiger I wonder?

Nsar1
Apr 3, 2008, 09:23 AM
Re-installing Tiger doesn't get me any further. I had already done it once and had the same problem.

She checked the hard drive and it was fine. We were rapidly running out of options and she said the best that I could do was to re-install again which didn't seem like much of answer and the thought of schlepping the thing back and forth 30 minutes each way made me think it was time to get a long term fix, not a work around.

I discussed with her whether installing leopard would get me past all this hassle and she said yes so I put my money down.

Dimwhit
Apr 3, 2008, 09:57 AM
I discussed with her whether installing leopard would get me past all this hassle and she said yes so I put my money down.

Sucks that you had to buy Leopard when you didn't want to. If, however, that doesn't fix it, go in and raise hell. And don't leave without a refund on Leopard and a fixed iMac. :)

Baculo
Apr 3, 2008, 10:31 AM
I am very impressed with the posts that have been made to help out in this situation. I wish that I could articulate all the unsolvable problems I have experienced over the years with my various Macs and software. You posters are amazing! And "phorae", you should get a medal for outstanding customer support!

orpheus1120
Apr 3, 2008, 10:33 AM
Did you choose erase and install for Tiger?

This sounds kinda weird because I would expect a reinstall of Tiger to solve your problem. If it's not software, logically it would imply a hardware failure somewhere? :confused:

I don't have the slightest clue for now. However, please install Leopard and let us know if server updates is possible after that. I really hope Leopard is your answer.

Nsar1
Apr 3, 2008, 03:23 PM
I'll let you know soon

killmoms
Apr 3, 2008, 03:27 PM
People, I have now reached new depths of despair with Apple.

I have just switched on to install Leopard and guess what? My I-tunes library has gone.

Did you Erase & Install, or simply upgrade/Archive & Install? Did your user folder get renamed somehow in all of this?

Dimwhit
Apr 3, 2008, 03:27 PM
Does anyone have checks I can perform to see if the library is hiding somewhere, because I can't find it.

What type of Leopard install did you do? I hope you didn't do an erase and install. The default, however, should have been a basic upgrade.

Did you have your music in the default location before? (Music > iTunes > iTunes Music) Are there still song files in that folder? You can check by navigating that iTunes Music folder.

Dimwhit
Apr 3, 2008, 03:59 PM
If your music is still there, but not showing up in iTunes, see if this works:

Quit iTunes. In the Music > iTunes folder, see if there is a Previous iTunes Libraries folder. If so, grab one of those files, rename it to iTunes Library, and replace the file of the same name in the iTunes folder.

What might have happened is that when Leopard upgraded your system, it backed up the old file and created a new one. At least I'm hoping that's what happened. The file in question is just a text file that stores your music location, playlists, etc.

Nsar1
Apr 4, 2008, 05:37 AM
Thankfully sorted the I-tunes issue myself although the Apple store didn't have a clue!

Installed Leopard and still can't find update server despite being assured by the Genius that this was a sure fire fix.

So two hours of my life I won't see again and 80 out of pocket, but at least my Son's nano now works. Not quite the result I was hoping for and I still have to sort out the update server issue.

This whole experience has been awful.

northy124
Apr 4, 2008, 05:58 AM
Back up all important Docs/Music/Movies and do a clean install and see if that works.

If your on a Vodafone 3G Data Package then you can't download "large" files from the update server, Vodafone don't like bandwidth abusers, Thats how they see you as their service is for casual browsing. As others have said look into broadband or at the very least dial-up

Nsar1
Apr 4, 2008, 06:09 AM
AS explianed above it's not the 3g connection, the fault is in the mac.

It wouldn't work on a fixed broadband connection in the Apple store.

The 3g did let me download a 312mb file, albeit slowly. Just a shame that it wouldn't open...

benoitgphoto
Apr 4, 2008, 06:11 AM
AS explianed above it's not the 3g connection, the fault is in the mac.

It wouldn't work on a fixed broadband connection in the Apple store.

The 3g did let me download a 312mb file, albeit slowly. Just a shame that it wouldn't open...

Did you check the firewall setting to make sure it doesn't block port 8080 ?

Nsar1
Apr 4, 2008, 06:25 AM
I don't know if the Genius in store tried to do that. If it's an obvious thing to try, you'd hope so.

Is there an easy way to check?

orpheus1120
Apr 4, 2008, 12:40 PM
Installed Leopard and still can't find update server despite being assured by the Genius that this was a sure fire fix.


This is what I feared all along.

Did you do archive and install, and erase and install for Leopard?

The former may preserves system settings, and you will be wise to check your firewall as suggested. If you did the latter, firewall should be defaulted to factory, and since you are still not contacting to the server, I fear there may be a hardware fault somewhere.

01134
Apr 4, 2008, 06:04 PM
Go to System Preferences > Network > Ethernet > Advanced
In the new window click the Ethernet button, top right.
Set MTU to custom and change the number in the box underneath to 1450

i had the same problem.

phorae
Apr 5, 2008, 05:54 PM
nasr1,

A couple of times I have asked you whether or not you went through the whole setup process when you first turned on your second hand mac. As yet I have not seen an answer. This will help us determine why it is still not working.

Also, from whom and how did you purchase the mac?

I regret that you are still having problems, however be aware that it is hard for anyone to help you - Apple or otherwise, if we cannot determine the usage history of the system. The advice the genius has tried to provide you is consistent with the fact that we do not know what may have been done to this system in the past. It is possible that system was modified in a manner beyond the general user interface. I think that the genius was trying to do everything to avoid a complete wipe and install, but we may not have much choice.

So can you do the network and firewall checks (the latter of which I also suggested earlier), and then please confirm what happened the first time you turned on the computer after buying it, as well as confirming how and from where the system was purchased.

Sometimes you will have a problem with second hand gear. Doesn't matter if it is a computer or a car. If a second hand Astra is playing up, its a bit difficult to get it fully running thout having an idea of the running history of the car to be able to pinpoint the problem. On that same note, you don't blame Vauxhall either - who knows what was done to the car before you got it?

What I am trying to say here is don't get too upset with us or apple if this is not going as smoothly as we would all like. We can't expect a new computer experience of it working straight out of the box if the computer isn't new - and it would be unreasonable to do so. Both apple and we will suggest a whole bunch of stuff to try, and it may work it may not.

The best thing we can do now is to try to replicate the new computer experience as closely as possible - and if that means backing up your data and reinstalling, then so be it. But please try everyting you are asked to try first, and provide all the info you are asked to provide before we go down that path.

That really is the best we can do. If it still does not work after a complete wipe and reinstall, we may be looking at a hardware issue. Again, conjecture because we do not know the history of the system before you bought it.

Nsar1
Apr 6, 2008, 08:07 AM
The mac came from my own company which cleaned off all data bar the OS. We have a corporate server which it used to talk to and I can be certain that we didn't have hardware issues with it before we got rid when we switched the whole business to PC.

Thinking back to when I first fired it up at home I don't recall installing the OS, something that is re-inforced by the fact that I was a lttle surprised when I found the 10.4.7 discs in a drawer just the other day. I think I would have recalled installing them.

I did let the genius know the history when I went into the store and suggested it might have been trying to find a corporate server. Quite why it hasn't been auto connecting to the update server when it was a company machine is anyone's guess.

I'm afraid i don't know how to check if it's trying to find a corporate server - any advice most welcome. I tried the changes to the ethernet suggested above but it has no effect, but as I'm connecting the internet via Airport i don't think it is relevant anyway? There is no firewall running.