Why doesn't Apple offer HDMI ports in more products?

[Tilpots]

Seems to me HDMI is now the standard for home entertainment. How come only the :apple:TV has this connection? I tried searching for HDMI and was amazed at all the recent results. I would think most people should benefit from their computers having this connection, yet only one product offers it. Whatcha think? HDMI ports on the horizon, or not anytime soon?

[edesignuk]

Apple TV is a product to connect to modern TV's. Modern TV's have HDMI.

Apple computers are designed to connect to computer monitors, though other standards are coming through (DisplayPort) Apple (as with most) standardise with DVI.

There's is nothing odd about this, it makes complete sense.

[Tilpots]

Look at all the people on this forum who are connecting their computers to an HDTV who are not using the :apple:TV. HDMI offers one less cable to deal with.

I use a MBP for video production and I often have to show clents their work at their place of business. It would be much easier to give a presentation on a nice big HDTV with an HDMI output.

Lots of people who use this forum want to be able to use their HDTV's as computer monitors, for slideshows, video chats, and a ton of other reasons. Shouldn't Apple make it more convienent for them?

[Mord]

Solution: buy a DVI-HDMI cable, it's not difficult.

[edesignuk]

What percentage of Video Card manufacturers make cards with HDMI? It's tiny in comparison to anything else.

[Tilpots]

Solution: buy a DVI-HDMI cable, it's not difficult.

Thanks, I already have one.


A good point about video cards, but don't many of the PC media centers use these already? I know people complain about the :apple:TV video cards enough already, but are they all that bad/expensive?

I'm not up in arms or anything here. I just wanted to see what people here thought some possible factors might be for Apple not using the new home entertainment standard.

[davidjearly]

I'm not up in arms or anything here. I just wanted to see what people here thought some possible factors might be for Apple not using the new home entertainment standard.

I agree with the others.

Why would Apple work hard to include a 'home entertainment standard' in their computers? Did you ever expect to see a scart or component connection on your Mac?

Apple desktops and notebooks are not home entertainment products, although they may be used for such purposes in certain circumstances. This is why the DVI-HDMI cable exists.

[gkarris]

Look at all the people on this forum who are connecting their computers to an HDTV who are not using the :apple:TV. HDMI offers one less cable to deal with.

... and use the dinky built-in speakers? :confused: :eek:

[Tilpots]

I agree with the others.

Why would Apple work hard to include a 'home entertainment standard' in their computers? Did you ever expect to see a scart or component connection on your Mac?

To keep up with people's habits. Different technologies brings different uses. People are integrating their computers into their living rooms nowadays, not just putting them on a desk tucked away in the home office.

Apple desktops and notebooks are not home entertainment products, although they may be used for such purposes in certain circumstances. This is why the DVI-HDMI cable exists

If they're not home entertainment products, what are they? They're certainly not geared to sell to business. Apple's marketing is predominantly focused on how to use a computer for your own personal enjoyment.

[nutmac]

Two reasons: (1) Apple does not want to pay HDMI royalty and (2) DVI-to-HDMI cables are cheap.

That said, I think Macs will get HDMI output with Blu-Ray. Without Blu-Ray or other features that work better with HDMI, there isn't much need for HDMI on current Macs.

[wmcoverdale]

Dvi is a video outlet and does not output sound. Even an optical cable only carries dolby digital sound. My understanding is that only HDMI is capable of outputting lossless sound. I'm no expert but it seems that even the most expensive apple desktops or notebooks, which all seem to lack an HDMI output are incapable of outputting Lossless high quality sound, or even dolby Digital sound to an AVR for play.

Personally, I play my computer music on my 12 year old Yamaha AVR via an optical cable from my cheap ACer desktop and great fantastic 24-96 PCM stereo sound + subwoofer. I don't think you can get this quality stereo sound from an Apple via its earphone output. My DVI to HDMI cable does get my high def quality video on my 50" hd monitor.

A notebook with an HDMI output could connect to an AVR to a HDTV with a short HDMI cable, and avoid the long cable connection problems of desktops located far from the TV or AVR.

To argue that a computer is not a home entertainment instument is not a very futuristic outlook. I have cloned my computer display to my tv for years and played my computer music over my AVR for at least 10 years while surfing my computer. My wireless mouse uses the TV display to control the primary computer display. High speed cable allows me to stream movies instantly from Netflix. etc. The computer is already a home entertainment device.

Think of Apple as a store rather than a computer. This store uses its computer to funnel its fans into the store to buy its products. This store has wonderful products, so most of its fans don't look or buy elsewhere, less there activities be known to their friends causing them to be viewed as an outsider and shunned.

Now, if Apple's technologically superior desktop or notebook had an HDMI output, some of its fans might figure out that a $5 HDMI cable would provide a superior connection to its $200 Apple TV (another kind of Apple store that only allows Apple movies to be shown on your large screen TV), whereas the $5 HDMI cable could play anything the computer can play. Its fans might even figure out that music sounds better when played on adult sized large speakers than the $10 speakers TV sets traditionally offer.

HDMI is simply a superior connection for sound and video that Apple does not offer on even its high end products. There must be a reason for that shortcoming and the only reason that I can think of is the Apple store. Similarly, there must be a reason why the Iphone will not "multitask" to allow you to listen to free Pandora radio music while you surf the internet or do mail. Maybe, Apple is losing its edge but just like GM and Ford, it continues to do a lot of business and make a lot of money. Unfortunately, GM and Ford had Toyota and Honda. Apple has Google, and Google's motto is not that the horse and buggy offer a quieter and smoother ride. Maybe Apple should start making a superior product with state of the art connections, before its many fans figure out that you really can get much more for less elsewhere.

[cube]

Displayport has better specs than DVI and HDMI 1.2 and like the latter, it can also transport audio. Period.

[agl82]

Displayport has better specs than DVI and HDMI 1.2 and like the latter, it can also transport audio. Period.

Yeah, let me hook my MacBook Pro up to the DisplayPort connector on my HDTV...oh wait. It doesn't have one. FAIL

[bossxii]

IF all their products had HDMI ports they couldn't sell you that $30 adapter :)

[QuarterSwede]

Two reasons: (1) Apple does not want to pay HDMI royalty...
That's exactly why they don't. They opted for the open Displayport standard. This is also exactly why BluRay hasn't made it in a Mac yet. And for those of you who think that the cables are expensive, buy them from Monoprice.com (http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp). Dirt, freaking, cheap. If Apple only did this so that you'd buy a cable from them then they would've slapped an authorization chip inside like they do for other products.

I'm not saying I like it but I certainly don't like companies passing the royalty off to the consumer like almost all of them do for HDMI.

[cube]

Yeah, let me hook my MacBook Pro up to the DisplayPort connector on my HDTV...oh wait. It doesn't have one. FAIL

Dual-mode DisplayPort interfaces generate also HDMI/DVI signals, requiring only a simple adapter, so it's 3 connectors in 1.

[thejadedmonkey]

What percentage of Video Card manufacturers make cards with HDMI? It's tiny in comparison to anything else.

Actually, very many modern video cards have HDMI. the ATI 3200 HD series onward has HDMI for sure, that I know of.

[ziutek]

What percentage of Video Card manufacturers make cards with HDMI? It's tiny in comparison to anything else.

Out of curiosity I just checked Newegg's top 20 best selling graphics cards (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%204802&name=Top%20Sellers) and twelve of them have built-in HDMI ports. Of their 20 top selling LCD monitors (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010190020%204802&name=Top%20Sellers), twelve support HDMI. The market for HDMI is definitely there and definitely has increased within the past couple of years.

[miles01110]

To keep up with people's habits.


You haven't picked up on the Apple mentality yet, have you? Apple decides what their users' habits are, not the other way around.

[mastercool10]

You can always buy em off ebay for cheap.

I bought mine on boxing day though.

[cjmillsnun]

Two reasons: (1) Apple does not want to pay HDMI royalty and (2) DVI-to-HDMI cables are cheap.

That said, I think Macs will get HDMI output with Blu-Ray. Without Blu-Ray or other features that work better with HDMI, there isn't much need for HDMI on current Macs.

1. Macs will never get Blu-Ray. Steve would much rather you download your movies on iTunes than support Blu-Ray

2. DisplayPort supports HDCP and Apple can SELL you a nice adaptor and make more $$$ for themselves

[pdjudd]

2. DisplayPort supports HDCP and Apple can SELL you a nice adaptor and make more $$$ for themselves

Apple doesn’t control display port any more than they have control over HDMI - they could sell you an adapter no matter what if you do not have the appropriate connector. Not to mention that you can get the necessary adapter from someone else just as easily outside of Apple.

Apple used DisplayPort because it is deliberately designed for computer displays and their are no royalties - Apple intends for your to connect your computer to a monitor - not a TV. That’s their goal.

[yg17]

1. Macs will never get Blu-Ray. Steve would much rather you download your movies on iTunes than support Blu-Ray


By that logic, Macs wouldn't have DVD drives either since they can be used for playing CDs and DVDs, which can be bought on iTunes.

[FX120]

Hell I would have been happy if they'd just gone with normal size display port which is becoming the new standard on corporate issue laptops, and actually making some headway at replacing VGA on boardroom projectors.

But no, instead they have to come out with another obscure port.

[Goona]

You haven't picked up on the Apple mentality yet, have you? Apple decides what their users' habits are, not the other way around.

You could say the same about any company. They make their products with what they want in it and the consumers go out and buy it.

[pdjudd]

By that logic, Macs wouldn't have DVD drives either since they can be used for playing CDs and DVDs, which can be bought on iTunes.

Except for two things:

1) CD’s widely predated iTunes
2) They are still used for other methods like software distribution - distribution that doesn’t work digitally.

None of these applies to Blu-Ray which is limited to movies.

Hell I would have been happy if they'd just gone with normal size display port which is becoming the new standard on corporate issue laptops, and actually making some headway at replacing VGA on boardroom projectors.

But no, instead they have to come out with another obscure port.

I believe that VESA was looking for a compact version of DisplayPort already but I can’t say that for sure...

[msheldrick]

Except for two things:

1) CD’s widely predated iTunes
2) They are still used for other methods like software distribution - distribution that doesn’t work digitally.

None of these applies to Blu-Ray which is limited to movies.

Blu-Ray discs certainly aren't limited to just movies, they're also used for large amounts of data storage... and Mac's can already read & write to Blu-Ray Data discs, if what you're saying was correct. It means that DVD's can only be used for Movies because it was used for them as well.

[cjmillsnun]

By that logic, Macs wouldn't have DVD drives either since they can be used for playing CDs and DVDs, which can be bought on iTunes.

Steve is no doubt working on eliminating them. But remember DVD drives were in Macs before the iTunes store was available.

[VPrime]

Blu-Ray discs certainly aren't limited to just movies, they're also used for large amounts of data storage... and Mac's can already read & write to Blu-Ray Data discs, if what you're saying was correct. It means that DVD's can only be used for Movies because it was used for them as well.
DVDs being used for software and data is a relatively new thing. This happened quite a while after DVDs being used for video (same goes for CDs as well).
Blueray has not been widely used outside of movies yet (Ps3 games being the exception). When Blueray discs start containing software and games become more of a standard (or even show signs of being commonly used) that is probably when blueray will be seen as a standard data disc.

So, I think his point still works.

[yg17]

Steve is no doubt working on eliminating them. But remember DVD drives were in Macs before the iTunes store was available.


All hail lord Steve! :rolleyes:

I'll be switching back to PC if Steve decides I can't have an optical drive in my computer.

[NoSmokingBandit]

... and use the dinky built-in speakers? :confused: :eek:

What?

HDMI carries both audio and video, hence the need for only one cable. With a dvi-hdmi adapter/cable you can only use video and must run a separate audio cable (which will only be stereo unless you have an outboard surround unit).

[boast]

Apple used DisplayPort because it is deliberately designed for computer displays and their are no royalties - Apple intends for your to connect your computer to a monitor - not a TV. That’s their goal.

Both computer monitors and TVs are LCDs (mostly). So there is no real difference, just one has lower resolutions than another.

[KingYaba]

I don't think I'm moving off of DVI for a few years. Maybe then Display Port will be popular enough.

[FX120]

I believe that VESA was looking for a compact version of DisplayPort already but I can’t say that for sure...

I am willing to bet that no other mainstream laptop manufacturer will ever adopt MDP for use in any of their products.

[cjmillsnun]

All hail lord Steve! :rolleyes:

I'll be switching back to PC if Steve decides I can't have an optical drive in my computer.

To be honest, people said that about floppy drives when the iMac G3 was launched...

But with flash technology and broadband becoming ever more popular, I can see the optical drive being dead within 5 years. Next version of OS X on a USB key anyone?

[BigBagaroo]

Apple TV is a product to connect to modern TV's. Modern TV's have HDMI.

Apple computers are designed to connect to computer monitors, though other standards are coming through (DisplayPort) Apple (as with most) standardise with DVI.

There's is nothing odd about this, it makes complete sense.

Hehe, yeah, what an odd thought. Connecting a laptop to a TV? With one cable? What kind of retards would possibly want to do that?

Not to mention that the price of MacBooks would increase, or Apple would have less profit. After all, the license fee for a HDMI port is 4 cents.

Also, only premium computers have HDMI output. You wouldn't expect your cheap Macbook Pro to have that built-in, would you?

[NoSmokingBandit]

HDMI is a bag of hurt. Steve told me.

[pdjudd]

HDMI is a bag of hurt. Steve told me.

No, Jobs has never made one comment on HDMI.

Not to mention that the price of MacBooks would increase, or Apple would have less profit. After all, the license fee for a HDMI port is 4 cents.


I doubt that is the reason - Apple uses HDMI the AppleTV - of course that is intended as a multimedia device for the TV. The usage of DisplayPort seems to be more philosophical. Apple sees a difference between a desktop monitor and a TV - hence the reservation of using DisplayPort for it's overall computers. Apple simply doesn't want people to use their computers purely as a Media PC (hence the display port not doing audio).

There is nothing overall wrong with this approach - Apple acknowledges HDMI in the home theater world and wants to keep DisplayPort for desktop monitors. If you want to cross that bridge, you can do that with adapters. Apple feels differently and wants to encourage their computers to be used as computers instead of them being relegated to simple Media PC's.

[NoSmokingBandit]

You dont understand humor, do you?

[StruckANerve]

Because Apple hates me. Why does Apple try so hard to be the cool kid that goes against the norm? Computers are a major part of home theaters these days and their integration as multimedia products is only going to increase. I hope Apple comes to their senses soon and realizes that HDMI is very important to the future of Computers and Home theaters.

[Bennieboy©]

Because Apple hates me. Why does Apple try so hard to be the cool kid that goes against the norm? Computers are a major part of home theaters these days and their integration as multimedia products is only going to increase. I hope Apple comes to their senses soon and realizes that HDMI is very important to the future of Computers and Home theaters.

no one forces you to buy Mac, if the machine no longer suits your purpose, change it ;) such is life :)

[StruckANerve]

no one forces you to buy Mac, if the machine no longer suits your purpose, change it ;) such is life :)

Money doesn't grow on trees and I still love my iMac. I was just frustrated and dissapointed when I wanted to watch streaming internet videos on my HDTV and I had to buy 3 separate pieces of equipment.

[BigBagaroo]

no one forces you to buy Mac, if the machine no longer suits your purpose, change it ;) such is life :)

What a perfect argument. It all makes sense to me now, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

As I understand, one is not allowed to complain about missing ports in a Mac or suggest additions, because it is perfect and Steve has found the chosen path and we will follow it, or you can just jump off the cliff.

[Bennieboy©]

What a perfect argument. It all makes sense to me now, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

As I understand, one is not allowed to complain about missing ports in a Mac or suggest additions, because it is perfect and Steve has found the chosen path and we will follow it, or you can just jump off the cliff.

alright play nicely, i didnt mean it like that, but my logic is tight, a machine is only perfect to a person if it does everything that the person wants, people can and do change inevitably faster then a computer gets updated, especially peoples interests and such.

[pdjudd]

You dont understand humor, do you?

Not when it is presented in the way that you did... Honestly, reading humor in the internet and trying to distill it from ignorance is a complicated thing to do. At least give us a hint... Distilling intent from raw text is hit or miss.

Because Apple hates me. Why does Apple try so hard to be the cool kid that goes against the norm? Computers are a major part of home theaters these days and their integration as multimedia products is only going to increase. I hope Apple comes to their senses soon and realizes that HDMI is very important to the future of Computers and Home theaters.

Apple doesn’t build their computers to be used as home theatre PC’s - thats not the market for their products. They have dedicated devices that do a better job (like the Apple TV) that are intended for TV’s - Apple just doesn’t build their products with that use in mind - they want their computers to be used as computers. It’s just their mentality. If you don’t like it, well buy something else.

But Apple does not “hate” you. That idea is rather silly. They build the products that they want. Thats been their motive for years.

[Tilpots]

Apple doesn’t build their computers to be used as home theatre PC’s - thats not the market for their products. They have dedicated devices that do a better job (like the Apple TV) that are intended for TV’s - Apple just doesn’t build their products with that use in mind - they want their computers to be used as computers.

Now that part's funny. Love to see an old thread breathed new life... Viva la HDMI port!:)

[senator1983]

This will likely not be a popular topic, but Microsoft has been on the PC home theater bandwagon for some time via Windows Media Center. (thus far they have done poorly in my opinion) and companies such as ATI and Nvidia have provided quality cards with built in HDMI ports; providing the ability to play games or movies in 1080P with high quality sound right through your home entertainment center using a single cable.

You want to watch the news at 5, but you missed it? hop online and watch it anytime you like. when you are done with that start up a new movie. Have company? bring up photos from your favorite vacation. sure these things can be done on many different devices, but they can also be done on a single computer. why pay for more devices when a single device does the trick? why would you not want the option to hook your Mac into your TV? Have Netflix, itunes, pandora, youtube, pictures, and your favorite games all in the same place. it just makes sense.

if you think HDMI doesn't belong on a computer, don't use it, but know that the majority of enthusiasts would love it.

HDMI is the start of a new standard, but like everything else, there are those who resist and stick to proprietary devices and connections forcing people to make adapters. (adapters that cause the loss of audio over hdmi) sure adapters are cheap, but they are also an inconvenience, which contradicts the convenience of the computer itself.

[Cerebrus' Maw]

This will likely not be a popular topic, but Microsoft has been on the PC home theater bandwagon for some time via Windows Media Center. (thus far they have done poorly in my opinion) and companies such as ATI and Nvidia have provided quality cards with built in HDMI ports; providing the ability to play games or movies in 1080P with high quality sound right through your home entertainment center using a single cable.

You want to watch the news at 5, but you missed it? hop online and watch it anytime you like. when you are done with that start up a new movie. Have company? bring up photos from your favorite vacation. sure these things can be done on many different devices, but they can also be done on a single computer. why pay for more devices when a single device does the trick? why would you not want the option to hook your Mac into your TV? Have Netflix, itunes, pandora, youtube, pictures, and your favorite games all in the same place. it just makes sense.

if you think HDMI doesn't belong on a computer, don't use it, but know that the majority of enthusiasts would love it.

HDMI is the start of a new standard, but like everything else, there are those who resist and stick to proprietary devices and connections forcing people to make adapters. (adapters that cause the loss of audio over hdmi) sure adapters are cheap, but they are also an inconvenience, which contradicts the convenience of the computer itself.

Good post. The fact that you are in newbie status, I am hoping you will turn into one of the more sane and reasonable posters around this joint.
;)

[surferfromuk]

Have to agree standard HDMI output on Mac would be nice.

[*LTD*]

Have to agree standard HDMI output on Mac would be nice.

+1

[agl82]

This will likely not be a popular topic, but Microsoft has been on the PC home theater bandwagon for some time via Windows Media Center. (thus far they have done poorly in my opinion)
The Apple fanboys at Engadget would tend to disagree with you. They claim Windows Media Center is the best on the market. I agree. Apple TV is a joke.

"Once you switch to Windows 7 Media Center there is no going back. It might not seem like that much at first, but when you try to go back to Vista or even another solution like Moxi or TiVo, it is like going back in time. The fact is that Microsoft has been in a league of its own with Vista Media Center and while the competition is still sitting idle suing each other, Microsoft has yet again raised the bar. There is no doubt in our mind that it is the all around best DVR solution available today..."

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/27/windows-7-media-center-review/

[AFPoster]

Solution: buy a DVI-HDMI cable, it's not difficult.

Most people have this cord but the downside is you still need an Audio cable because DVI doesn't transfer sound.

[Rob AK]

[QUOTE=davidjearly;5243300]

Why would Apple work hard to include a 'home entertainment standard' in their computers? Did you ever expect to see a scart or component connection on your Mac?


Apple, through iTunes has made a major commitment to computers seamlessly accessing entertainment and playing it. I would like HDMI 1.4 and the most recent sound output from a Blu-Ray source. Eventually iTunes, Netflix, etc. is going to offer that kind of quality online. My iPhone records HD movies. You can get camcorders that record in 1080 and with proper microphones and software you can at least get 5.1 and I am sure 7.1 is coming. Why not make your computers match the direction Apple entertainment is going, not to mention where everyone else is going. It would be a shame for a company, who started the online entertainment revolution with the iPod and iTunes let that chunk of the market get away because they didn't make hardware that could do it all.